Growing Evangelical Clout Shapes Political Debate With 2012 Looming
- Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:12am by
Scott Baker
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DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Republican presidential candidates take note: the clout of social and religious conservatives is growing in politically crucial Iowa. And these activists are driving the debate here toward cultural issues — and away from the economy — just as the GOP sets out to find an opponent for President Barack Obama.
“They’ve gotten more involved in the party,” said Norm Pawlewski, a lobbyist for the Iowa Faith and Freedom Coalition. “I’ve seen a change in the kind of people who are volunteering — and not only volunteering but working.”
With Obama’s re-election race looming next year, this constituency — made up heavily of evangelical Christians — is intent on playing a major role in choosing the winner of next year’s Iowa GOP caucuses. It’s seeking a repeat of 2008 when it coalesced around the underfunded former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee to give the Southern Baptist minister a surprise first place finish.
Since then, social and religious conservatives have stepped up their organization efforts, including hosting a series of forums for presidential candidates. Two are this week alone.
“They’ve harnessed the new technology and new methods to organize and activate their members,” said veteran Republican strategist Bob Haus. “They are professionally run and they are a top-notch organization.”
Maybe a force to be reckoned with, too.
As Drake University political science professor Dennis Goldford put it: “They have essentially the best organization of the various Republican constituencies.”
The increased activity by this crop of conservatives has been driven in part by a huge fight in the state last year over gay marriage. Voters ousted three Supreme Court justices because of their role in a decision striking down a ban on same-sex marriage. Activists also were energized by huge GOP gains in the state last fall, including ousting a Democratic governor.
Also, Steve Scheffler, who heads the Faith and Freedom Coalition, said part of the energy surging through social and religious conservatives comes from antipathy to the Obama administration.
“Pure and simple, what’s driven that is an administration that few of us would have dreamed would be so bad,” said Scheffler.
The increasing dominance of Iowa’s social and religious conservatives presents challenges to GOP presidential candidates as they start trooping in earnest to the state whose precinct caucuses traditionally launch the presidential nominating season.
Unlike at the national level where social issues are taking a backseat to the economy, there’s no sign that Iowa Republicans are moving away from discussing topics like gay marriage and abortion.
Thus, the state could be fertile ground for likely contenders who play up their opposition to those issues and others that the right detests. Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and former Minnesota Gov. Tim Pawlenty are among those who aren’t shying away from those topics.
Conversely, the state landscape also could pose hurdles to GOP hopefuls who are downplaying cultural issues.
All-but-declared candidates like Mitt Romney and Haley Barbour have made it clear their campaigns will be focused on the economy. And Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, who also is weighing a bid, has suggested the party call “a truce” on fighting over social issues while the economy is in such trouble.
Social and religious conservatives here blanch.
“What would a truce look like?” asked Danny Carroll, who is with the conservative group the Family Leader, which led the charge against the judges. “To those true believers, other things just don’t get them out of bed in the morning. If you called a truce, people would just say ‘I’ll stay home and do something else.’”
Chuck Hurley, who heads the conservative Iowa Family Policy Center, has nothing but disdain for those seeking to downplay social issues.
“Anybody who calls a truce when the abortion clinics are running 24/7 is not a true pro-lifer,” said Hurley. “That’s giving up the battle.”
Steve Roberts, a former member of the Republican National Committee before he was ousted by a religious conservative activist, said those who want social issues to go away are dreaming.
“It’s not going to happen in Iowa,” said Roberts, who said social and religious conservatives virtually run the show in Iowa. As for moderates, he said: “You can find them occasionally in a large phone booth.”
Social and religious conservatives showed their might earlier this month, when 1,500 of them gathered in a suburban Des Moines church to hear a pitch from five potential presidential candidates — and remind them not to stray too far from their religious base.
“If you turn your backs on the pro-family, pro-life constituency you will be consigned to permanent minority status,” veteran religious activist Ralph Reed told the cheering throng at the gathering.
Starting this week, there’s certain to be even more focus on such issues.
Home school advocates, largely evangelicals, plan a mass rally at the Statehouse on Wednesday, and at least three potential presidential candidates are to attend. And over the weekend, U.S. Rep. Steve King is hosting a forum where five potential candidates are to appear.
Kim Pearson, who won her seat in the Iowa House with opposition to abortion as a key issue, said she expects to hear that same message from White House hopefuls. Said Pearson: “They are going to have to address the social issues” — whether they like it or not.
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Comments (127)
Itchee Dryback
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:18amSinista MACE
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:03am
I believe God caused a great delusion to come over the people, that they should believe a lie.
_______________________________________
Interesting.
Report Post »How did you arrive at that conclusion?
teddrunk
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 12:05pmI believe God caused a great deluge, (the flood) not delusion. God would never work to deceive.
Report Post »democratgirl
Posted on March 28, 2011 at 11:30amGod does NOT do this: Satan does. God sometimes does NOTHING and allows Satan to do what he wants, but God also can take that and turn it around for HIS glory. For instance, death, disease and sickness come from Satan (because of the sin in the Garden). God can and will heal, resurrect, and save what Satan has thrown away, just for HIS glory as a witness to people that HE IS GOD. I believe we will see some fabulous miracles in these last days, right before Jesus returns.
Prophecies Fulfilled By Jesus’ First Advent (all of these ARE in the OLD Testament)
Born of a Virgin (Mary)
Born in Bethlehem
Of David’s Lineage
Preceded By Elijah
Preceded by a Messenger
Anointed with the Holy Spirit
Anointed on Time
Had a Healing Ministry
Sold for 30 silver coins (judas)
Betrayal by a friend (judas)
Lots cast for His clothes
Numbered with the Transgressors
Interceded for Transgressors
No bones broken
Pierced
Buried in a rich man’s tomb
Raised the third day
Second Coming Prophecies Fulfilled
Report Post »The Glorious Hope
The Destruction of Jerusalem
A Great Persecution
A Great Earthquake
Sun Turned Into Darkness
Moon Turned Into Blood
Stars Fall From Heaven
Capital Labor Problems
Wars and Commotions
Unrest, Fear, and Upheaval
Increase of Knowledge
Moral Degeneracy
Increasing Lawlessness
Craze for Pleasure
Disasters, Famine, and Disease
Rise in Spiritualism
Pride and Selfishness
Drunkeness and Gluttony
Desecration of Marriage
Scoffers and Religious Skeptics
Gospel to the World
momprayn
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:11amIt’s been my understanding that the “church”, in general, used to think they shouldn’t be involved with politics and would discourage their members not to get involved. That did great damage – they should have!! In order to keep their “tax exempt” status, they’re not allowed to preach/promote about certain political candidates – but that doesn‘t mean they can’t preach the principles laid out in Scripture about what kind of leader you need to run the nation & can’t talk about it among yourselves & get involved individually, which we have every right (and duty) to do. So then we finally woke up about that error but really wasn’t enough that were really shaken up enough to get active, plus most are naive, nonconfrontational & trusted our reps – weren’t educated about Progressivism (I didn’t know until last year) & how they‘ve been duping us all since the early 1900’s & anti-Constitution. I think Beck has been used to educate & wake us up. God bless him. Plus He used Rush to wake us up about liberalism & how they think, etc. Many of us Consvs. don’t know many, if any libs & was unaware & couldn‘t fathom there would be so many that thought like that since it’s so “out there”. Then came Obama….we finally got shaken enough to get active — Tea Party. Then the November tsunami. So we’re on the right track & I’m encouraged. Don’t think God would raise these people up for nothing, but will take a few years to get us back – with God’s help.
Report Post »democratgirl
Posted on March 28, 2011 at 11:36amThe church with a 501c3 exemption, cannot ENDORSE or name a candidate, nor can they endorse or dissuade their members from voting on a political issue. Our Pastor is really good. He talks about an issue on the ballot, then he uses scripture to point out what God says about it and he forces YOU to come to a conclusion. As for candidates, he makes people think about who they are voting for by telling them (as Glenn does) to do their homework on the person (are they followers of Christ or do they just belong to a church). He usually passes out questions that you can answer on your own. Each is weighted. You’d be surprised, or maybe you aren’t anymore, as to how many politicians hide in a pew somewhere, just so they can get your vote. DIG DEEPER.
Report Post »JQCitizen
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:03amI do not accept that the social, political and economic issues need to be separated. They are ALL moral and ethical issues!
Take, for example the issue of Public Welfare. It IS a moral issue how much money is confiscated from one citizen and distributed to another. As I explained to my 4 teenagers (now adults). If I see neighbor “A” is hungry, and I go to my pantry, and give them food, that is CHARITY. If I see neighbor “A” is hungry, and I go take food out of neighbor “B’s” pantry, (by taxation), and feed them, that is THEFT. I also pointed out to them that many of the “Greenies”, were people who didn’t care how many BABIES were thrown in the trash, but saw it as a moral imperative that they supervise how I disposed of a TIN CAN!!!
The younger generation are starting to see this. My oldest daughter, (getting her Masters in child psycology) sees abortion as a human rights issue, and is working to influence her peers on that. My son refused to pursue a career in the public school system, because even while he was preparing to student-teach, they barraged him about who he was going to vote for in the 2008 election. We do have moral incite and leadership growing in the younger generation!
The key is to run a candidate that, like Reagan, who can ennunciate these issues in a way that EDUCATES without LECTURING, in a spirit of comaraderie; not patronizing others. Someone with deep moral character who is also a Good Communicator. Let’s pray for such a person to emerge.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:56amThis story need not even be told. Anyone who considers themselves to be a Christian will bother to find out about the candidates. No church needs to tell them who to vote for. When it gets past a primary, it’s easy for the Christian, Evangelical or not to figure it out. You CAN NOT be a Christian and a Democrat. It’s IMPOSSIBLE. You simply cannot align yourself with a political party that supports the murder innocent babies and call yourself a Christian. There, wasn’t that easy.
Report Post »kjperuch
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:26amI agree that churches should not be involved in campaining for certain politics . I do however believe that religions should influence their congregations to vote and to vote for those who live high moral standings. Our country was founded by those who sought after religious freedom. There is no reason why religions should not influence people to take up that right they have to vote for good humans.
Report Post »JGraham III
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:51amA dear pastor friend of mine once confronted me when I was spouting off about the “political situations” in the country by telling me that “patriotism with out Jesus Christ at the center of it is nothing more than another form of idolatry.” I do believe he is right. Nothing wrong with being patriotic but Christians need to remember that no matter what level of involvement they have in community/state/national affairs that Jesus Christ is their Lord and as such is their King also. We Christians are representatives of a “foreign power” as it were, and our first duty is to that Sovereign that bought us. His first directive was to ‘go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.‘ Another poster said to reach men’s hearts first and their minds would eventually follow. I wholeheartedly agree.
Report Post »The ‘evangelical’ community unfortunately is too easily swayed from this directive by the craftiness and deceit of politicians who know all they have to do is be seen 3 weeks before an election on the steps of a church and most will vote for the good “christian” politician all the while ignoring the rotten fruit all over the ground at the politican’s feet. So my advice (such as it is…) is for the Christian community to first take care of the junk in their own lives and then see their communities to follow along.
PatriotDaze
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:36amThe last republican administration sawed the Fiscal leg off with a chain saw, and the social leg isn’t as sturdy as when Reagan built his coalition. The only social issue on which there is unanimity is the Right to Life.
Report Post »PatriotDaze
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:42amSorry, the above was intended as a reply to GrannyT at 10:14 am.
Report Post »GrandpaOf4
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:35amI have no problem with any church backing, supporting, or otherwise giving a platform for any political candidate. I think we all recognize that the so called “separation of church and state” doesn’t exist. And shouldn’t really. What does exist is that the government cannot control or decree any “religion”. (Sort of a difficult situation when for many the very essence of today’s government is a religion unto itself.) Still, a church taking an active role in the election of political candidates seems completely reasonable in every respect.
Taxation is an unrelated topic. In my opinion there are a whole lot of people profiting personally from some of these “non-profit” organizations. It isn’t just the churches. In the words of Robert Schuller, “The church is a good business”. The same can be said for United Way or any of the countless other so called non-profit organizations. There are a whole lotta people getting paid for their jobs working in non-profit organizations. Nothing wrong with that but really if people and businesses pay taxes to the government then it seems reasonable that churches, non-profits and political parties should pay taxes as well. So should every “non-profit”. They should pay taxes on property, capital gains and whatever else is appropriate. Now IF the government were to function as intended and get out of the welfare/social human services business in order to let the non-profits take care of this issue then I could see some justification for tax relief. Government (tax dollar) sponsored incentives to form non-profits basically. Obviously that isn’t about to happen anytime soon. If ever. So based on where we are today in America it seems only reasonable that churches (etc) should be taxed the same as everyone else. (well maybe not “the same” but in some way) Not a popular opinion around here I’m sure but really the tax exempt status of non-profits is basically a crock since really the government is doing everything it can to take over their businesses anyway.
Report Post »Granny T
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:14amThe Reagan/Republican Platform have three legs to the stool – Fiscal, Defense, and Social. I’m glad there are some people willing to take a stand to help keep all three legs of the stool strong. If we lose any one of those legs our Party will fall.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 6:47amReagan tripled the deficit and sold guns to Iran – that’s one wobbly damn stool!
Report Post »ares338
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:00amI wish common sense and knowledge of the political situation would pervade the political arena. Not necessarily religion or emotion.
Report Post »PatriotDaze
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:25amAgreed. But good luck with that. See the response from Joe1234 just a few posts above. He, like most other religious conservatives, believe that they don’t need anyone else. TronInTheMorining writes immediately preceding your post that if every believer votes, there will be enough to overturn the current administration. Tron believes two things that aren’t true: 1st, that every believer thinks the same way Tron does, and 2nd, that every believer votes the same way Tron does.
The more the evangelicals stress social issues….the more the independents in the middle will avoid their candidate(s) like the plague.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:19ampatriot: its rather obvious you libertarians just want us social conservatives to vote for you and shut up. kind of like the establishment republicans. we’re tired of that.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 4:22pmAnd Joe, we Libertarians are tired of your ilk and it’s obvious that you want us to vote for a socially conservative candidate and shut up. Maybe we should split the country 3 ways. The left taking a portion large enough for it’s constituents: teachers, welfare recipients and illegal immigrants, the religious right taking a portion for their constituents: polygamous mormons, Benny Hinn, evangelicals, Phyliss Schlafly and their ilk, and the rest of the country will be left to the intelligent. We’ll see who makes the best strides in business, technological and societal advancements, who’s bankrupt, who‘s got the most crime and who’s brought back stoning as a legitimate form of punishment.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 9:15amRed, we don’t need you libertarians to vote for real conservatives….there aren’t enough of you to matter. as far as intelligent…well I’ve read some of the libertarian web sites like lew rockwell….intelligent is the last word I would use to describe them. they’re foaming at the mouth liberals…bush is hitler…lincoln was a tyrant…crazy stuff…
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:52amAs we have all noticed, God has had very little to do with the present administration; He is not hardly mentioned and when mentioned, it’s soooo hard for them to even utter his name. Well, they don’t mention His name; usually, just a generic “god” reference. So, indeed; lazy Christians better get it together now to beat the libs in 2012. No excuses. If every believer, 18 and older; showed up to vote, we would have a change indeed. Make it happen.
Report Post »conservativeBC
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:49amNPR making fun of Michelle Malkin
is this what you want your tax dollars supporting?
http://conservativeblogscentral.blogspot.com/2011/03/npr-jokes-about-michelle-malkin.html
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 6:44amYeah, actually that was pretty funny. Whatever unmeasurably microscopic fraction of a percent of my tax dollars went to put that guy on, well done!
Report Post »PatriotDaze
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:46amRalph Reed? The evangelicals are still applauding Ralph Reed? The same Ralph Reed embroiled in the Abramoff scandal, in which it was apparent that Reed was secretly manipulating the Christian Coalition, The Family Council and Focus on the Family to openly oppose gambling…..to the financial benefit of both Abramoff’s clients and Ralph Reed.
But he’s still evangelical of course….and all about ‘the family’. Jeesh…..a sucker IS born every minute.
Report Post »Doug in Seattle
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:39amI take any story like this from MSM (not AP wireline) with a healthy dose of skepticism. My first thought is “Who will benefit?”.
The left knows that the Tea Parties are a coalition of fiscal and social conservatives and that their agenda can only be broken so long as that coalition remains strong.
A story like this is intended to create a rift between the social and fiscal conservatives. Don’t be fooled!
Report Post »PatriotDaze
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:48amThere IS a rift between the fiscal and social conservatives. I want NO part of Ralph Reed and the charlatans of his ilk.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:02amand we want no part of you liberal libertarians, we don’t need you
Report Post »Carol1955
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:37amHow interesting that people who actually live with a strong conviction of their faith are “religious extremist”. Well if someone who just claims to be a Christian and doesn’t expect anything out of their “faith” and has no desire to set themselves apart from the world’s corruption is mainstream, then I’m glad to be an extremist. People are dying for their Christian faith around the world while here we have been asleep in our faith.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:32pmThey’re only an extremist when they try to FORCE their views on other whether it be through legislation or otherwise. I don’t think anyone would care how extreme a church is (within the law of the land – render to Caesar what is Caesar’s and all) as long as they aren’t forcing it down the rest of our throats. Only 20% or so of people believe we should legislate biblical law. The rest of the 80% don’t want to be held hostage by other peoples religious views. Sorry, but I like my shellfish, I have to work on the Sabbath and I prefer not to be relegated to a second class citizen again.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 2:41amwho in the world is advocating instituting sabbath law? or Jewish ceremonial law for that matter? That is a reactionary statement that reflects an unreasonable bias more than anything else. Most of the laws and court system you are under have their roots in Judeo-Chistian beliefs. Although these are being gutted to allow for more secular society at every opportunity. And with it more injustice shows up in our courts every year. Your arguments just don’t hold water
Report Post »MaggieRose
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:33amLt. Col Allen West 2012
Report Post »kommish
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:18amWest/Cain 2012. A totally black ticket would surely cause the majority of blacks to vote Republican… right?
Report Post »exdem
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:48amIt definitely would take some votes away from Hussein Obamao.
Report Post »Azay Gezunt
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:19amGod, help us all from these relgious extremists.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:36amyou can thank those ‘religious extremists’ for what little freedom you have left.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:52amWas Jesus a religious extremist?
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:21pmYeah, I’m not big on religious extremists either. Depending on who gets nominated…I may end up sitting the next election out. I prefer my candidates keep their religious views & ideals to themselves as I more than likely do not share them nor do I want them legislated.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 2:35am@ RED…….so irreligious people’s legislation is more legitimate? Their views are worthy of being hoisted onto others? I am not advocating that Christian doctrine be legislated into law, but why can they not enter into the process? atheists do all the time. Their views are no more deserving to be put into laws than a religious person. Take abortion, someone else’s view was thrust on me because I see that as murder yet it is law and I am told to shut up and accept it. Why is that OK in that regard but not OK for me, if I had the power, to outlaw the practice? People who make your statements do not understand that EVERY law reflects a morality or a belief of one type or another. So what makes a Christians views less than? Is it simply because you don’t want it? Or do you believe your own logic to be grounded in reality? My guess is your bias has led you to reach your conclusion not reason as it is easy to see the hypocrisy. So based on this, your bias or beliefs somehow trump mine in your world? By making your statement you are asserting your morality which is the same as one asserting their religion.
Report Post »Edct
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:09amIt’s about time the lazy Christians got up to do something constructive to try to save the morality of this country instead of sitting at home praying and believing that is all they had to do.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:49amYou are ill-informed. Who do you think the majority of Tea Party people are? They just took back the House, if you had not noticed.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:17pmWorry about your own morality – not mine. Tend to your own flock. My morality doesn’t need any fine-tuning. I find it so very interesting that the right is all for small government and staying out of the lives of people yet all for big religion and interfering in the lives of people. One in the same if you ask me. I think we should stick to the economy, infrastructure, fair taxation, securing our borders, vanquishing our enemies to a radioactive pile of rubble and making the U.S. more business friendly. I could care less whether or not people attend mass, take communion, pray 5 times a day or get out their gris gris and chicken’s foot. It‘s none of my biz what you do in your spare time as long as it’s legal and it certainly isn’t any of your biz what I do in my spare time.
Report Post »rflaaskog
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:07amLet me ask you a simple question, how many tax exempt organizations do you think are involved in swaying elections? and how many of them do you think have received money from you, through the government grant program for non-profits? Before you start throwing stones, clean the glass.
Report Post »bhelmet
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:05amChurches should be focused on changing hearts – when that happens minds soon follow.
Report Post »NancyBee
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:11amGood comment!
Report Post »BQI
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:58amAs well we should get more involved. Our biggest problems in America and the world for that matter would be better addressed if Judeo / Christian principled leaders were in office. Note principles not necessarily Christians themselves although that would be icing on the cake.
Look at Obama who professes to be a Christian but his principles say otherwise.
TODAY @ BQI our Featured Article is “CONNECTING THE DOTS ON OBAMA” We lay to rests myths etc. about his religion and political philosophy. PERIOD!!!
http://www.blackquillandink.com
Report Post »teachermitch32
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:39pmI love your site. Keep up the good work.
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 6:08pmI agree, love your site!
Report Post »Sinista MACE
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:49amDon’t allow yourself to be religiously flattered by words.
Look at the candidates actions.
You can tell them by their fruit.
Report Post »Rothdeman
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:15amITA! Bible does say, “By their fruits you shall know them”, Matthew 7:20
I think that is a real danger Evangelicals face, as with the Obama people, they were taken in by words with actions/fruits/records showing something different. I would also hope that Evangelicals would not treat the fiscal side as some treat the social side, taking it for granted.
I would count myself as a more fiscal conservative. While being socially aware.
I know for myself I run into issues with conservatives and liberals when it comes to a social issue like abortion. I both believe in a woman‘s right to choice and a child’s right to life.(as God Himself said, “I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:” Deuteronomy 30:19) Meaning, I disagree with abortion but would not stand in the way(literally) of a woman having the right to choose to have one. Yet, appealing to the heart and trying to find the alternatives if at all possible. As it is a change of heart that must come about more so than an outside forcing if you will. Norma McCorvey(Jane Roe) is an example IMO of that change coming through her faith which changed her heart. I guess what I am saying is that while I support Pro-Life efforts, I do not support Pro-Life efforts when it comes to Constitutional Banning. I think to vary degrees at times both sides are so at war with each other that they lose sight of the lives that hang in the balance, the Mother and the Child.
Report Post »Sinista MACE
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:03amI believe God caused a great delusion to come over the people, that they should believe a lie.
Report Post »Hungry_i
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 12:42pmTo wit: Barney Frank
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:39amIf evangelicals are using their churches to sway elections they should not be tax exempted….period
Report Post »I say this even though I’m conservative and this would likely benefit my party.
ProgressiveLiberalMarine
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:41amThat’s a really good point.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:54amSmithClar3nc3
I am a chaplain and a conservative; and I whole heartedly agree with you completely.
Report Post »ropati
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:01amAnd if any candidate campaigns in a black church, that black church should lose its tax exemption.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:15amAs long as politics is not preached from the pulpit, they should be tax exempt. My preacher is an evangelical and very careful not to touch on politics, but I can tell you which way 98% of the church votes. Evangelicals vote on Biblical principals, not how their preacher tells them to vote.
Report Post »It’s the progressives who use the pulpit to preach politics. Look at the good Rev. Wright, Rev. Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton.
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:19amRopati:
If any candidate campaigns in any church, they should lose their tax exempt status.
Report Post »celestialfire
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:23amThere’s always two sides, why so quick to condemn evangelicals tax exempt status when the liberal churches have been doing it for decades, just a more recent example http://www.christiancentury.org/article/2010-10/hoping-avert-disaster-democrats-turn-black-churches
Report Post »ccr
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:28amAmen!!
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:54amCEL.FIRE.
Report Post »I realize that liberal churches have been doing this and it’s a clear violation of church and state seperation. All Church,mosques,synagogues,temples or whatever should not be able to influence elections and loss of tax exempt status is a good starting deterrent.
kommish
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:15am@Snowleopard I think Ropati would agree with you but he is stating what is the obvious. Politics in church, at least in my experience and the experience of those I have talked to, happens in about 99% of black churches (I would say 100% but it would only take 1 example to prove me wrong). I have never been in a white church that has ever had a politician speak or the pastor mention who to vote for.
Report Post »cnsteph
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:11amPolitics has been preached from the pulpit long before any pilgrims ever came to the America’s. Political proclamations from religious figures have been found from ancient Egypt to Rome to the Church of England. A good portion of the declaration of independence and constitutional language came from sermons preached from Rev. Dr. Mayhew, Rev. Dr. Cooper, Rev Charles Chauncy, Rev. Richard Allen, etc. Lets not discount Rev. George Witfield who went to England to protest against the stamp act. I can name many more but I think you get the point. That our pulpits today are so non-political is a change from pretty much all of history. This may be why most of the U.S. churches are hollow shells of what they used to be or completely dead all together. They are to scared to talk about the real issues.
The “separation of church and state” was to protect the church from the state, not the State from the church. Should churches have tax exemptions? I personally don’t think anyone should have tax exemption, but then again, I don’t think we should have the proportion of taxes that we have to begin with.
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:15amsmithclar3nc3
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:39am
If evangelicals are using their churches to sway elections they should not be tax exempted….period
Report Post »________________________________________
I agree. However the problem would be in defining “swaying elections”. The left would most likely organize protests against churches that viewed abortion as an evil thing while organizing rally’s for churches that peddled environmentalism, class warfare, crusades against “the rich” and gay marriage, etc.
mugotyou
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:49amWhat the HECK are you people smoking???? There is NOTHING in the constitution, that would lead anyone to the conclusion that churches must not “influence” their congregations “politically”!! Why on earth are “conservatives” fomenting the LIBERAL myth called “Separation of Church and State”? The intent was to keep the FEDERAL government from “ESTABLISHING” an “official” STATE RELIGION!!! THAT”S IT!!! IF, you actually do the research……..you will find that the churches in the 1700′s were INSTRUMENTAL in furthering the concepts of God-given rights and freedom of religion, association, speech etc, etc!!!! AND, you will find fiery sermons from the pulpits………that would sound VERY “partisan” to the wimpy, wussy ears of many of today’s christians!! The fact is, that liberal churches should darn well be free to “influence” there members in the political arena!!……..and the massive problem for conservative christians is………….way too many of them, have swallowed the LIE of “separation of church and state”………and so, out of FEAR, they cower in their pews……….many, even in so-called conservative denominations……….voting democrat/ socialist/ progressive……..because their “leaders” have been “neutered” by the government’s threat of “removal of tax status” coupled with a growing “wimpyness” ……. so that they ‘HIDE“ behind the ”Separation of Church and State”…………when the truth is…….it’s a disgusting cowardice that is infecting the church!!! I would travel 300 miles, to attend a church where the pastor/ priest had the guts to stand up and tell the government that they can “shove their precious TAX FREE STATUS…..where the sun don’t shine”…….because, you will NOT dictate to this church, what we can say or not say, in regards to the POLITICAL direction of this nation!!!! AND, if that same pastor/ priest would go on to say…… that if ANYONE in the church would stop giving……..because they could no longer get their precious GOVERNMENT TAX DEDUCTION………….then WHAT is your faith based on anyway???? …………..well then…….I would drive 600 miles to attend that church!!!!!! The sad, sad truth is ………in many churches today…….that pastor/ priest would be promptly “asked” to leave.
Report Post »Red1492
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:10pmAgreed. I’m a fiscal conservation but if religious organizations start campaigning and donating to candidates, it’s time for them to lose their tax exempt status. I will not vote for an evangelical or any politician claiming to do “gods” work on my dime. I‘m all for freedom of religion but I’m also for freedom from religion. I don’t want christian law anymore than I want sharia law. This is what always loses the independent vote who will just sit this one out if someone like Huckabee get’s the nomination. Here’s to another 4 miserable years under Obama.
Report Post »sleazyhippo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 2:11pmIf churches paid taxes, we would have no debt after 4 years.
Report Post »Navyveteran
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 3:11pmsmithclar3nc3
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:39am
If evangelicals are using their churches to sway elections they should not be tax exempted….period
I say this even though I’m conservative and this would likely benefit my party.
—————————————————————————————————–
I disagree wholeheatedly with you and others that agree with that statement. You’re saying that if an organization has tax exempt status, they have to forfeit their rights to free speech and that is wrong! Where in the Constitution does it state that any tax exempt organization forfeits their freedoms of political or any other kind of speech! If the KKK or the Black Panthers, are tax exempt organizations they have the right to freedom of political speech. DOESN’T matter whether I like the speech or NOT. I like every other citizen has NO right to keep ANYONE or ANY organization from excercising their 1st Amendment Rights PERIOD!
I have never heard anyone talk about the southern black churches forfeiting their tax exempt status when endorsing Democrat politicians and allowing them to talk to the congregations. ACORN and NPR amd other progressive tax exempt organizations go out of their way to get Progressive candidates voted where is the talk about those organizations losing their tax exempt status? How about we all go on the side of the Constitution and allow everyone and every organization whether tax exempt or not to keep all of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights!
A little history our Revolution got started in the pulpits!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 1:36am@ RED……you are already under many judeo-christian laws!!!!! I will pst to you as I did to CEREALFACE. You must not understand the war of ideologies. You do understand by your statement that you are “pushing” your views on others, do you not? And your view in practical terms can be seen every bit as the same as what you refer to as religious. Here is why—-Numerous studies have shown that everyone has a worldview (not how you see, but what you see with). Every single individual in the world has one whether they know it or not and it functions whether they are aware of it or not. There are 4 things common to every worldview. (1) A theory or background about the world. (2) The diagnosis of the nature of human beings. (3) A diagnosis of what is wrong with us. and (4) An answer for putting it right. As your worldview was in operation in your last post you tried to assert your worldview into a dominant position over someone else. In this way your worldview operates exactly in the same capacity as a religion even though you claim to be irreligious. Therefore what you have stated is quite hypocritical.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 1:46am@ RED……………can you reference for me where in the constitution you have the right to “freedom FROM religion???????? Especially since our D of I starts out stating that the rights we have are inalienable and are endowed by our CREATOR.
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on March 23, 2011 at 6:34amWhat the law has always said about this is that all churches can speak about political issues, because all political issues are also moral issues on some level, but if they come right out and say “vote for Joe Blow,“or ”vote against Dick Doe,” then they’ve crossed the line and should lose their exemption. I think that makes sense, but there are a lot of preachers in this country who are pushing at the limits and getting away with it, because there are no votes to be gained by enforcing the law. No politician wants to be the first to crack down on activist churches.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:34amHerman Cain: “You can’t separate social issues from domestic issues. They go hand in hand.”
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:34amThe tea party movment has shaken things up, and now God is stirring the soup; let the revival of the faith and the restoration of the land and constitution to the people continue forward. We must not stop until all the junk is gone and the nation restored to where she should be in the eyes of God.
Report Post »dirtytricksjusttowin
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:07amAgree
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:22amAmen! Many people who are Christians don’t even realize they are being coaxed into liberalism/progressivism – until it is pointed out, the difference between “collective and individual” salvation is so subtle in its verbage that you swallow it hook, line and sinker. God is watching, please pray for our country, our soldiers and all who keep us safe.
Report Post »copper
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:37amI agree, those who believe it is just about the money are those who have brought us to this morally bankrupt relativism.
The founders knew and especially G Washington who said it that in order to keep what they gave us we would have to be people who had faith in GOD. Only moral people who have the standard of right and wrong defined by the Creator can have a free and just society. If we didn’t, greed and the lust for power would destroy us.
As Glenn beck has shown, they determined to destroy Faith, morals and the family. Without doing that they would NOT be successful. Only men who are willing to stand for TRUTH in all areas of life can be trusted to lead. Isn’t the LIAR-IN-CHIEF enough of a warning? They pretend to be for the underdog but they create their own victim class (who indenture themselves for material things but become slaves in the process) to promote as a badge of their concern, but their REAL agenda is MONEY & POWER. Obama and his ilk are ALL AFTER the MONEY.
Marxism, socialism communism are not democracy, it always become an oligarchy..power held and wielded by an ELITE while the rest grovel in misery.
Report Post »Cerealface
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 12:31pmPlease stop pushing your religion on other Americans.
Report Post »Cerealface
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 12:41pmMaybe if you stop pushing your religious views, they would stop too. BUT Noooooooo
Report Post »Nobamazone
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 3:57pmDear God.. PLEASE, just this one little thing for now
please slap anyone who still does not understand that America was founded BECAUSE of You and your book, factual history is very clear on that, we all know it. so please, just give them a holy slap with a copy of the Constitution, Declaration of Independence and the Federalist Papers so maybe they will understand and stop saying “waaahhhh waaahhhh you keep pushing your religion, booo hoooo, stop it, your morals are hurting me, awwwwwwww… I‘M TELLING” Please! I am sick of their whining, if they don’t want to be part of a county founded on Christian values they can move! Amen
Yea… I know it won’t work…. But oh how I can wish!
Report Post »Suzanne912
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:54pmditto!
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 1:28am@ CEREALFACE…………..you must not understand the war of ideologies. You do understand by your statement that you are “pushing” your views on others, do you not? And your view in practical terms can be seen every bit as the same as what you refer to as religious. Here is why—-Numerous studies have shown that everyone has a worldview (not how you see, but what you see with). Every single individual in the world has one whether the know it or not and it functions whether they are aware of it or not. There are 4 things common to every worldview. (1) A theory or background about the world. (2) The diagnosis of the nature of human beings. (3) A diagnosis of what is wrong with us. and (4) An answer for putting it right. As your worldview was in operation in your last post you tried to assert your worldview into a dominant position over someone else. In this way your worldview operates exactly in the same capacity as a religion even though you claim to be irreligious. Therfore what you have stated is quite hypocritical.
Report Post »pamela kay
Posted on March 22, 2011 at 7:01amAmen Snowleopard!
Report Post »NHABE64
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:32amThis is GOOD and these politicans should take note alright! They better be part of the solution and not the problem or risk getting canned by WE THE PEOPLE in 2012.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:40amRun on the Reagan platform please:
Report Post »-Jobs
-Defense
-Shrink government
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:49amCessna:
Add this part too
- Keep the promises you made by doing the job you are hired for.
Report Post »PA PATRIOT
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:01amAnd please add TRANSPARENCY,and REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:29amEvangelical? Yeah thats right fall for the Demoncrats ploy and run back to hide behind the bible so they can destroy you! Look what happened with the Mike Huckabee BS? He lost down the road and the Evangelicals voted for him cause he was a Pastor! There are MANY God fearing upstanding people in this world and they are NOT evangelicals!!! Look at the whole picture and NOT that a person can pray real well…….even the anti-christ has the ability to read scripture with his forked tongue!
teddy8765
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:30amThis is great. Evangelicals in our Government will allow Truth to come out. It’s time Christians faced reality about their faith and their Biblical World view…their stance on the constitution…on American society – Take a look at the Realist Manifesto at http://www.jesusalonesaves.com.
Report Post »boogeo
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:31amThis story is good news to Obama. This will ensure his reelection. Evangelicals will nominate the Republican candidate and it will further polarize a split Republican party.Huckabee and other far right candidates will doom the Republicans to another failure. And to cessna152,national debt more than tripled from $900 billion to $2.8 trillion during Reagan’s tenure. We can’t afford that.
Report Post »Cape_Lookout_RW_Extremist
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:34amYou’d think if a church is really teaching biblical principles, that the congregation should know how to vote without being told who to vote for. Why can’t they simply teach these principles and pass out voter guides on these principles? Who votes pro-life…who votes for marriage defense act…etc….whats wrong with that?
Report Post »Stuck_in_CA
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 9:48am“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
Edmund Burke quote
Report Post »MontanaRob
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:01amEveryone needs to understand what we are up against.
What we are experiencing is an all out assault on Christendom (Judeo-Christian ethic, Western Civilization). The opposition has been developed to take a position in total contrast to everything we know and have lived by for centuries.
They believe in the removal of the patriarch led family unit. That morality is relative and a personal choice rather than societal and held to the rule of law. That the most offensive oppressor is a white Christian heterosexual male who can do no right. In their world, secular or Islamic minorities, females and homosexuals can do no wrong.
They are a product of a nihilistic, freudian, Marxist collusion, h*ll-bent on the removal of our culture from the face of the earth and historical traces of it removed as well. This is due to the fact that it is antithetical to their belief system and could endanger it’s success. The more we do to be “US”, the more they fail.
Terrific damage has been allowed to our society by allowing “political correctness” and liberal ideology a foothold. This is not a struggle that will fully play out in our lifetimes, or possibly even our children’s. To firmly grasp the knowledge Christendom and the USA have achieved and to pass it on to our children and grandchildren, to counter with all you have the influence of public schools and Hollyweird, and to instill true morality and a full understanding of consequences for the leftist lifestyle is essential.
Report Post »NancyBee
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:22amI don’t care who you are…Christian, Hindu, Muslim, athiest, white, black.,orange, purple,hippy, straight, gay, dog or cat……Did I leave anyone out?…we’ve got to get this President voted out!
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 11:07amWe need to let the evangelicals that we won’t just vote on a one issue platform. I think all of the GOP nominess believe in God, but they also need to believe we need to defend our borders, reduce the debt to our children, follow the Constitution, make it so that government is not above the law, pretty much everything CESSNA and SNOW said. Just because Hucksterbee was a pastor, doesn’t make him the most qualified.
Report Post »thegrassroots
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 12:59pm“We Recognize No Sovereign But God, And No King But Jesus!”
~ John Adams and John Hancock [April 18, 1775]
America is Standing in the Same Boots and on the Same Holy Scripture as our Founders.
You liberal lemmings are being sent back to the rocks you crawled out from under. And, You Know It! That’s the why of all the thuggery. Your true colors are showing more and more and with every passing day.
Keep It Up! America is Watching and America is Listening and America Votes! You’re Outa Here!
Report Post »HillBillySam1
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:06pmIf any politician declares himself/herself to be a Christian and then deny God when it becomes politically expedient, then that politician will have absolutely no problem denying any of his/her constituents when it also becomes politically expedient……Evangelicals have finally learned this lesson……
Report Post »Hope1620
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:18pm“You’d think if a church is really teaching biblical principles, that the congregation should know how to vote without being told who to vote for.”
Report Post »Exactly, Cape. The ethical issues are already outlined in HIS handout!
http://revelationrainbow.com/
RJO
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:35pmThe “Rockefeller” “RINO” “Country Club” Republicans are very much afraid of losing their control and power. That’s why they slam (behind the scenes) the MAJORITY within the Republican party. I love it when the advice comes…to abandoned, suspend or call a “truce” on the great social issues that are tearing our country apart at the seams.
Then there is the threat….”Well, if you focus on the killing of the unborn (on average about 4-thousand deaths a day – 50 million since Roe v Wade) you’re going to give Obama four more years. Uh…right. What a boat-load of dung. If Republicans are honest, have integrity and stick to their promises…especially the social issues…they will CREAM any Dumbocrat…from B.O. to the U.S. Senate to state and regional races in most of the country.
Be courageous and ignore the planted distractions that are designed to divide.
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 1:40pmThis country needs to be on the side of God. When the nation turns back to God, All things will be possible.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 8:47pmWell the Evangelicals gave us Jimmy Carter, So I wonder what we will end up with this time.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 21, 2011 at 10:22pmWhen a nation on the whole abandons following God, turning to other gods or their own human “wisdom”, this is what He has consistently done to discipline that nation throughout Biblical History. Why should we be any different unless we repent as a nation? Isaiah 3
1 See now, the Lord,
the LORD Almighty,
is about to take from Jerusalem and Judah (USA)
both supply and support: (Economy)
all supplies of food and all supplies of water,
2 the hero and the warrior,
the judge and the prophet, (honored and wise men will be in short supply for leading)
the diviner and the elder,
3 the captain of fifty and the man of rank,
the counselor, skilled craftsman and clever enchanter.
4 “I will make mere youths their officials;
children will rule over them.” (youth will rebel [revolutions?])
5 People will oppress each other—
man against man, neighbor against neighbor.
The young will rise up against the old, (division and strife will increase)
the nobody against the honored………………………
8 Jerusalem staggers, (USA staggers and is falling)
Judah is falling;
their words and deeds are against the LORD,
defying his glorious presence.
9 The look on their faces testifies against them;
they parade their sin like Sodom;
they do not hide it.
Woe to them!
They have brought disaster upon themselves.
My people, your guides lead you astray;
they turn you from the path. (unwise, evil and ignoble leaders)
I will state so no one things wrongly of what I stated this is not aimed at democratic leaders only but most ALL of our leaders. There are a few of integrity. But just a very few !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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