World

Here Are Two New Russian Guns That Our Troops Could Face On the Battlefield

As the U.S. military looks to replace the M-4 carbine, Russia is set to produce its own next-generation rifles in 2012 that could turn up in hotspots around the world, and possibly oppose U.S. troops.

First, let‘s take a look at what’s in the near-future of the AK (Avtomat Kalashnikova) family of rifles.

The Russian AK-47 is probably the most widely recognized and produced rifle in the world. After over six decades of use by the Soviets, their client, and even Islamic extremist groups state that it has become an emblematic symbol for many of America’s enemies. It appears on the Hezbollah flag, and in countless films as the ‘bad guy’ weapon of choice.

Well, the storied and iconic AK is about to get a major upgrade.

1) The AK-12 (AK-200)

Two New Russian Guns That Our Troops Could Face On the Battlefield

Introducing the AK-12. The primary changes to the traditional AK-47 are a 60 round magazine, folding stock, rail system, and a bipod/handguard. Its control mechanism have been ergonomically honed such that single-hand operation is possible. This means an injured soldier can stay in the fight with only one good hand.

The rail system will make the gun compatible with modern firearms accessories, a major upgrade over the older AK models that were not easy to fit with lights, sights, and other additions.

AK-12 possible calibers will include 5.45mm, 5.56mm NATO, 7.62×39mm and a new caliber that has not yet been announced. Some gun enthusiasts have offered that the new caliber may be the 6.5mm Grendel, but that is unconfirmed. The Izhmash munitions plants — the grand-daddy of Kalashnikov production — is set to begin producing the AK-12 in 2012 (hence the name change from AK-200).

Two New Russian Guns That Our Troops Could Face On the Battlefield

The gas operation system may receive some last minute tweaks, and the AK-12 will be available in a range of sizes, including a carbine model for Spetznaz troops.

Even newer in the public eye, though, and scheduled for 2012 production, is this bullpup rifle that packs a punch roughly equivalent to a U.S. .50 caliber.

2) TsKIB ASH-12 

Two New Russian Guns That Our Troops Could Face On the Battlefield

The Russians have created a brand-spanking new bullpup rifle that packs a punch, and it’s called the Ash-12. Russia’s TsKIB SOO, a subsidiary of the KBP (Instrument Design Bureau) is trying to revolutionize large-caliber, highly portable infantry weapons with this new model. It’s not a gussied up member of the British SA-80 family, but  you could say it’s an L85A1 on steroids.

The Ash-12 is chambered in a new family of 12.7×55mm cartridges specifically designed for this weapon, and it’s a monster of a cartridge. As the Firearms Blog puts it:

“It is similar in size, and probably power, to the .50 Beowulf. To help mitigate recoil, the ASh-12 is fitted with a large two-baffle muzzle brake. The 12.7×55mm assault rifle cartridge is based on the 12.7×55mm subsonic rifle cartridge (similar to the .500 Whisper)… TsKIB SOO have developed a FMJ, soft-point, lead and armour piercing loads for the 12.7×55mm assault rifle cartridge.”

Between the AK-12 and the Ash-12, it looks like Russia is set to put some pretty formidable new hardware into the hands of its ground troops. And given the history of the AK, it’s probably only a matter of time until these high-tech shooters turn up in the hands of our enemies abroad.

(h/t the firearms blog)

Comments (278)

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  • mrsalvage2
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:26pm

    The most significant help to the AK platform has been its imporation to the US market where so many companies have taken their best shot at the upgrades that we see in these photos.

    Ishmash imports the Saiga in .223, 5.45,, 7.62 ComBlk, 7.62 NATO, and 12 Ga.

    Mr. Will Hayden of Sons of Guns has done the most prolific work of making the Gun you see in the first Picture, but here in the US. A friend has one of them but in the 7.62 NATO, which is the wave of the future since 1 in 4 Rifles fielded by US Troops in Afghanistan are the 7.62 Nato.

    Still, the Calliber War rages and Wilson Tactical has brought in the .223 cartridge trimmed to 40mm and loaded with either 110grn or 150 grn rounds doing 2300 feet per second on the 150grn round.

    If they could just get this speed and velocity to the .308/7.72 NATO speeds, then the US DOD could keep their existing M4 parts, adding only the Ammo, new gussied up receivers, barrels, and recoils springs and have all troops using a round equivilent to the 7.62 NATO but in a smaller originally desired pacakage.

    This idea neither addresses the inherant reliability problems of the present AR systems, and it remains to be known if the new AK will be reducing the mass recoil issues that are inherent to that very reliable system. Adding something like the HKG3 2 stage buffer system to it might be a shock. The evolution might be the mariage of the Kel Tec RFB with Kriss SuperV action and hopped up 7.62×40wt.

    Report Post » mrsalvage2  
    • Bdizzle McHammerpants
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:34pm

      “1 in 4 Rifles fielded by US Troops in Afghanistan are the 7.62 Nato.”
      This is highly inaccurate! I wouldn’t even say that 1 and 10 rifles carried by US Troops are chambered in 7.62 Nato. In fact, the only weapons i am aware of that U.S. Troops carry chambered in the 7.62 are a hand-full of sniper rifles, M-240 belt fed machine gun, and maybe a hand full of old style M-14′s.

       
    • MontanaRob
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:35pm

      I just built an upper in .300 AAC Blackout a couple months back. It employs a .308 110-220 grain bullet inserted into a shortened and expanded neck .5.56/.223 case. The 125 grain loads are almost identical to the ballistics of the AK47′s 7.62X39. The heaviest loads are subsonic in shorter barrels and with a can, are really quiet! Big fun!!!

      Report Post » MontanaRob  
    • Hunter Nole
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:47pm

      Isn’t the M-60 chambered in 7.62?

      Report Post » Hunter Nole  
    • OKC08GT500
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:10pm

      My Stag Model 3 is incredibly reliable.

      Report Post » OKC08GT500  
    • Pigpen
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:15pm

      Welcome back to the Cold War, beeeeyyyotches!!!

      Report Post » Pigpen  
    • HongKongCavalier
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:18pm

      The M60 has been replaced by the M240 (FN MAG58). I don‘t know if you’re going to see one on the battlefield even with reserve units.

      Report Post » HongKongCavalier  
    • ICRedifURBlue
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:51pm

      forget the .308 go with .243 and call it a NATO 10mm……..gets your speed and accuracy, with 100g it’s very effective as a sniper round to 600 yds. Plenty of power and reduced recoil compared to .308, lighter ammo, carry more rounds and longer max effective range…….makes it a winner for me, just sayin’……..

      Report Post »  
    • ICRedifURBlue
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:56pm

      …..10 mm is for the .40 round on my pistol sorry ….drinkin” a little.

      Report Post »  
    • The Dark Side
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 12:32am

      @ Hunter Nole

      The M60 does chamber a 7.62. It, however, is an older machine-gun that has been largely replaced by the M240/240B. Thus, most do not even mention it anymore. I assure you, however, there are a few left in the inventory but most are in the hands of support troops and not in the hands of our front line war fighters.

      Answer from the Dark Side!!!

      Report Post »  
    • The Dark Side
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 12:44am

      Although many enthusiasts love the idea of larger caliber ammo for the troops, I do not think the troops are all that keen on the idea.

      Ammo weighs a ton – larger calibers more than smaller calibers. The basic load for the M16 (5.56) is 210 rounds (depending on unit SOP). If these troops were carrying 7.62 ammo, I suspect the basic load would drop to about half that. Our troops are already carrying 100-125 lbs. How much more do you want them to carry?

      The 5.56 round does the job about 95 percent of the time. We have dedicated unit marksmen carrying M14′s for the other times. Funny, but most of them carry a M4 as well and use it most of the time. That, however, is another discussion – poor marksmanship training in most units and commands poorly trained in use of and deployment of unit marksman.

      My thoughts from the Dark Side!!!

      Report Post »  
    • cage77
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 1:07am

      And what are the inherent reliability issues with the M4/M16/AR15 platform? Besides a little common snese preventive maintenance, I never had an issue with my issued rifles or the ones I one.

      Report Post »  
    • Miami
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 2:11am

      While they‘re playing with 50 year old technology we’re taking giant leaps

      Next gen Lightweight Assault Rifle
      XM8

      http://world.guns.ru/assault/usa/xm-e.html

      Real life smart bullets
      XM25

      http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1334114/New-US-Army-rifles-use-radio-controlled-smart-bullets-used-Afghanistan.html

      If this is their attempt to restart the cold war, they’ve got a long way to go…

      Report Post » Miami  
    • Miami
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 2:35am

      Better pics for the XM25

      http://www.foxnews.com/slideshow/scitech/2010/11/24/armys-revolutionary-rifle-use-afghanistan/#slide=5

      Report Post » Miami  
    • UrbanCombatSurvivor
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 3:54am

      As someone who has fired an AK-47 a time or two, I can say that the “massive recoil” is extremely exaggerated propaganda. It recoils in a fair range with it’s power, no more, no less. I’ve fired hundreds of 7.62×39 rounds, and never understood the “recoil issues” always talked about until I considered that it must be propaganda.

      US Troops are told about how “inaccurate” and how much “massive recoil” the AK platform has to make them stay in the pocket when in a firefight against them. The accuracy is reflected by the shooter, not the rifle. I have a buddy who has 2 to 3 inch groups with an AK at 100 yards.

      Propaganda, it’s our greatest export…

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 6:44am

      @Miami

      You are aware that the XM8 was killed years ago, right? As for the XM25 it really has limited application and is still being field tested.

      Report Post »  
    • Mathew Manhorne
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 8:18am

      FYI… The XM-8 program was canceled long ago and as for the XM-25. It is never going to be more than a odd toy for most. In its test deployment to A-Stan it fired less than 55 rounds and was only used in 9 fire fights in a 6 month period with the 101st. Also at a cost of $30,000 a unit and $1000 a round its not a cost effective option…

      Report Post »  
    • VTDave
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 9:04am

      @Amadeus76
      Not sure I agree that the .223 (5.56 NATO) cycles poorly in the AK. My VEPR K fires .223 just fine whether I use mags with .223 followers or mags with 5.45×39 followers. I have never suffered stovepipes or jams with it like I have with my Bulgarian AK-74 with 5.45×39 on occasion.

      Report Post » VTDave  
    • Wolf
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 9:36am

      @ Incredifur… you’re trying to convince people the .243 has more effective range and lighter recoil than its parent .308? Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it and prove it. Anyone who thinks a .243 recoils less than an M14/.308 has shot neither. And I’ll tell you what: you stand at 1K with your .243 and shoot at me while I’m shooting at you with my .308… let’s see who has the more effective range. It’ll make a loser out of you every time.
      To the AK200… doesn‘t look any different than a souped up Mall Ninja’s wet dream. Lots being done with that platform now and most are rejecting that foolishly long magazine that prevents prone shooting- but makes a great monopod, if it doesn’t jam the works. The 7.62 round should be kept, IMO, as it’s more powerful than the .223- and an accurized barrel would help solve the accuracy issue. Otherwise, just hot rod up an AK 74 if you need a .223 caliber AK.

      Report Post »  
    • SoupSandwich
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 10:27am

      Lots of bs and personal stories floating. Soviets are finding that commercialism and advertising work in certain venues. 7.62×39 does what it was designed to do. AR platforms work well when maintained and have more reach. Nothing the Soviets produce mean much to a well trained American with confidence with whatever he fields. Lots of Bat boys love the 6.8 for it’s qualities, but all that matters is what you get used to and can put into application expertly. VZ58 will put most AK variants to shame, but who gives a crap. A good shot with a 10/22 can do much. @ Utterly – That magazine with 60 rds for new born goats was much needed-funny stuff…

      Report Post »  
    • SLOWBIDEN
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 10:55am

      you watch to much television. The show is sons of guns. The company is Red Jacket Firearms. He had nothing to do with the Ak 12. He takes Ak 47′s and cobbles them together with aftermarket parts. Same gun extra parts…… Dumb a s s

      Report Post »  
    • squigs2004
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 10:57am

      I don’t know about to what extent 7.62×51 rifles are used in our Irag and Afghanistan theaters is now, but I do know that a while back the military switched from using the 5.45 NATO (.223 Rem) round to the 7.62×51 for the ground troops in Iraq because our troops couldn’t shoot the 5.45 NATO through walls and it went so far they were hitting innocent civilians several yards away (a lot farther away than a 7.62 round would go) during a firefight. I hope that the military replaces the AR platform with something as reliable as the AK. I doubt it’ll be an AK; that’s a symbol of the bad guys; but I hope it could be the HK 416/417 rifles or something similar. Those have the reliability of an AK, but are just as accurate as our current AR platforms.

      Report Post »  
    • chancetexas
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 11:39am

      Rail system, Eotech with magnifier, bull pup design, Surefire light, collapseable bipod, ergonomic grip and plastic stock ARE ALL AMERICAN IDEAS and have been on civilian rifles for years. Oh and by the way, try holding that weapon system with one hand for any period of time (Good luck). Try shooting that monster with that banana clip in the top photo in a prone position! LOL This is a useless fear article.

      Report Post »  
    • plumbadrumma
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 11:42am

      Well said MRSALVAGE2. The new proposed AK is accessorized much like my M4 and my AR platform Bushmaster in 308. I wonder if that is a real EoTech or is it a knockoff?
      I would like to try the Saiga semiautomatic 12 gauge with a high cap mag.

      Report Post » plumbadrumma  
    • mrsalvage2
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 12:11pm

      @BDIZZLE – Every U.S. Service Rifle M14 and M1A has been recalled by DOD from States and Police, reworked and refielded as the “EBR”. The Plan is a Designated Squad Marksman (DSM) being 1 in 4 Rifle Carriers, which does not include SAW and 240Golf toters.

      @MontanaRob and Darkside – Wilson Tactical has produced the new .308 in 7.62×40 to feed in standard M-16 Mags., but the pressures and speed need to be brought up in order to meet the need that has brought the M-14 out of retirement and into the EBR Upgrade. The ammo weight will go up very little without additional girth.

      @SLOWBIDEN – thanks for the exposure of your character and nature, Will does some interesting work, my friend owns one of his RAK308′s an AK in .308/7.62NATO. Great Gun, he moved the trigger guard, fire control system, cut the barrel, and mounted a 24mm Bulgarian Brake on it. Only thing it needs is a suppressor, and is much like the Galil Chuck Taylor Mod. my friend owned that so impressed a SWAT AR Armorer (who refused to own an AR or a .223) that he had to have one. That lead to a discussion about a Weapon that came out 3 years later, the Kriss SuperV. The feeds with Glock Mags attribute was the dead give away. Also in a couple of years later the EBR project began. Ak12 is an SG

      @HONGKONGCAVALIER – Yes, the Golf/FN-MAG58 is in Operation in the ‘AT’. The original Mod.7 Minimi is seeing action in Spec Ops. climbing the hills, but only has a 7-10K rd. service life due to having a light r

      Report Post » mrsalvage2  
    • mrsalvage2
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 12:31pm

      @Plumb – Americans may not know, but to my recollection, I believe that the Russian Cobra Sight that slid directly on to the AK Receiver side mount pre-dates EO Systems.

      It has taken a whole lot more time for EO Systems to be picked up by the US Mil. than the Russians who are involved in Purpose Production.

      The picd sight looks like an older EO Model housing, but not being on the side slab might explain the older Cobra Tech. for a top Rail. But, I could be wrong about the timing overall, neertheless, we do rely upon the Russians to move our Astronauts, they did create the Ekronplan, did do Sputnik, and produced the most simple reliable and servicable assault rifle in the 100′s of millions.

      Given a photo and outside specs, metal can be worked and mocked up, but the guts and interior construction in the end prove viability/reliability. So Flashlights, Lasers, n Scopes do not mean much in a Picture. The Scope looks like an Aimpoint 2x, the huge EO next to it, and a Sure Fire to make about 500 Lumens. But is it really? Can they make it to handle .308 recoild is the question, as their 308s are great?

      For the .308 round, either as is, or shortened to 7.62×40wt @2880fps, in a system using:

      A. the HKG3 Two-Stage Recoil Buffer (I used that once, Rifle to Rifle comparison; WOW!);
      or;
      B. the Kriss Super V Recoil Reducing Action

      is the future Round and Carbine of ALL AMERICANS.

      AK action is for me, 1 man who cannot afford 1 failure.

      Report Post » mrsalvage2  
    • WAKEUPUSA2012
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 1:57pm

      Right you are I have the Centurion ak made in usa and even tho the company isnt great the gun is.

      check it out here http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemDetail.aspx?sku=75808

      Anyway I cant wait to buy this one the ak 12

      Report Post » WAKEUPUSA2012  
    • Atrocities
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 2:27pm

      Actually its an http://www.arsenalinc.com/usa/home.php?cat= arns firearm. They have pioneered the AK upgrade market for the last few years.

      Report Post » Atrocities  
    • punisher0276
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 7:15pm

      I wrote the white papaer in 2001 for GWB and the armed services committees warning them of the risk of insurgency and how to change the TOE for marksman. The best use is putting them in a weapons squad under the control of the Platoon sergeant. The M14 is dated and the newer 300 win mag M700 featured in the NRA rifleman is good to 1500 yards. I personally think that the military would be better off with the newer remington rounds that are beltless. I use a 7mm ultra mag for hunting that has the lowest bullet drop of any round in the world. The best round is the scirocco 150 grains. It would challenge the Lapua mag for distance and accuracy. Remington also makes a 338 ultra mag which would match the 338 Lapua. The Army developed a 200 grain 300 win mag round to match the Lapua ATM. Nothing beats the accurracy of an bolt action especially in the desert. I carried an M4A1 in Mogadishu and after the barrel melted went to a M249 SAW. My recommendations enabled DA to put the current heavy barrel on the M4. It saves lives.

      Report Post »  
    • hud
      Posted on December 8, 2011 at 2:25pm

      They sell similar guns in Shotgun News every 2 weeks.

      Report Post »  
    • sgtstubbs
      Posted on December 8, 2011 at 8:12pm

      face it, 223 222 are varmit rounds, 308 30-06 are for hunting bigger game. 7 mm mags are bigger game rounds.444 545 and other are for anything you can to kill.

      Report Post » sgtstubbs  
  • possom
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:11pm

    I hope the new caliber is .223.

    Report Post » possom  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:20pm

      In my estimation WW3 is going to be fought in and around America, which would stand to reason why there was an article I read about Russia opening an AK-47 ammunition plant in Cuba.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:23pm

      In my estimation the forces in the world are going to want to carve up America as they carved up the Mid-East after WW1 over oil, and only with America it will be over oil, coal, and natural gas.

      Report Post »  
    • go2gym
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:29pm

      Remember though, Eliasim……….we the United States don’t have any oil. Just ask the Obama.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:34pm

      If I was President I‘d be ordering the construction of bunkers and fighting positions around the shores of America like but better than the German’s had at Normandy, and the Japanese had in Japan.

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:45pm

      Possom,

      The AK is already available in .223. However, the shape of the round effects it’s ability to cycle effectively.

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:56pm

      @Eliasim
      When you make claims like that please put a link to the article. Thanks.

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:06pm

      @The-Monk,
      http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/12/02/russia-plans-ak-47-ammo-factory-in-cuba/

      Report Post »  
    • M 4 Colt
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:08pm

      I want to see a soldier try and use that WAY TO LONG 60 round magazine in the prone position. If they do use it in combat in the prone, they will end up getting their heads shot off. One more point i don’t see anything on that rifle that they came up with, by looking at it it would seem that they have stole every thing from us right down to the Surefire light to the Picantinny rail system so i see nothing new, all they have done is copy great American ideas that were already in the market.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:13pm

      @The-Monk,
      What do you want to bet dollars to donuts that the Russians will bunker AK-47 rounds in storage in various locations in Cuba?

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:21pm

      You have to look ahead way way down the road. WW3 will be won by the best Infantry with the best rifles, and the best available resupply lines for the ammo.

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:24pm

      @ELIASIM

      And exactly what good would that do the Russians, since they don’t carry rifles chambered for the 7.62×39 anymore, and haven’t since 1978???

      Report Post »  
    • marvel
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:29pm

      The article says 5.56mm NATO is one of the possible calibers.

      Report Post » marvel  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:31pm

      That AK-12 is for close-quarters combat to destroy vehicles, body armor, and shoot through walls. It’s for urban combat.

      Report Post »  
    • WeekendAtBernankes
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:22pm

      Those countries don’t have the fiscal resources necessary to support a sustained campaign in North America given the logistical challenges. The 200 million man army isn‘t worth much when it’s laying at the bottom of the ocean. The best chance they’d have is a move through Texas. Good luck with that. Hell, even the cartels on the Mexican side would fight to preserve their revenue stream.

      Report Post » WeekendAtBernankes  
    • Wolf
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 9:45am

      Just buy yourself an AK 74 if you need a .223 caliber AK.

      Report Post »  
    • Dismayed Veteran
      Posted on June 4, 2012 at 2:03pm

      @Eliasim

      Bunkers and fighting positions didn’t do much for the Germans and Japanese. WWII proved the fallacy of trying stop the enemy on the beach. I don’t want to suffer hubris but I think the day of a conventional seaborne invasion is over. Eyes are everywhere. We still have the best trained and equiped conventional military force in the world. If you are talking NBC attacks all bets are off. Nobody will be landing anywhere.

      Oddly enough we do have fortifications on US shorelines. The old Coast Artillery forts are still in place.

      Report Post » Dismayed Veteran  
  • BowHuntingTexas
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:07pm

    Spray and pray with a .50 cal.

    Report Post » BowHuntingTexas  
    • jonjon
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 12:42am

      I fired the 50 beowulf a few weeks ago no spray and pray about it , snap the upper right to your ars’ lower , and let the fun begin , just like shooting a standard ar , with a lot more kick

      Report Post » jonjon  
    • C. Schwehr
      Posted on December 8, 2011 at 11:08am

      I understand that the AR platform chambered for .50 Beowulf is not a long distance cartridge, but is very effective for disabling soft targets at shorter ranges (i.e. road block situation where an engine block hit will stop a car).

      Report Post »  
  • recoveringneocon
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:59pm

    Could you imagine every time a gun maker in the US came out with new weapon all of our leaders showing up at the nearest gun show to give them a look see.

    Report Post » recoveringneocon  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:07pm

      Can you imagine soldiers low-crawling in mud, distracted by enemy fire coming from the hillside (and I’m not talking about Muslim Radicals), but that I’m talking about German grade soldiers who actually hit what they are firing at, sweat and blood in their eyes, and I wonder how aggravating the electronic sighting systems will fair in such an environment, when they are battling an enemy capable of closing off supply routes to resupply batteries and such. Probably not so well.

      Report Post »  
    • Anti_Spock
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:09pm

      AK-47′s were never designed for 7.62 NATO rounds. They were chambered for Russian 7.63 rounds, capable of firing 7.62. This is the smartest thing the Soviets ever did, in my opinion. It meant they could use captured 7.62 NATO rounds, but NATO couldn’t fire 7.63 captured rounds in smaller bore weapons.

      I’m quite sure the AK-12 will be designed the same way.

      Report Post » Anti_Spock  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:11pm

      Somehow it seems to me that when American troops rolled into Iraq, much of Saddam’s military abandoned their posts and equipment, and therefore how well will troops fair when they are fighting a Chinese Army that will not abandon their posts.

      Report Post »  
    • snooop1e
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:31pm

      We have nothing to worry about, we’ll just deploy the Occupy Wall Street Brigades, they know how to pitch tents and they can drive the enemy back by whining and crying them into submission, if that doesn’t work they can pack up and launch a Spring offensive. Either way we’re good to go.

      Report Post » snooop1e  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:32pm

      Anti_spock,

      Where the hell do you get that tripe!? The NATO 7.62×51 and the Russian 7.62×39 are not interchangeable in any rifle.

      Report Post »  
    • recoveringneocon
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:49pm

      The AK is just a copy of the German StG 44.

      Report Post » recoveringneocon  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:54pm

      @RECOVERINGNEOCON

      Hardly… While the AK is not a wholly original design it is not a copy of any firearm available at the time. It did however take inspiration from several designs.

      Report Post »  
    • recoveringneocon
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:04pm

      I beg to differ even the round is similar. The Russians captured a lot of the German Scientist after the war. They copied much from the Germans
      .

      Report Post » recoveringneocon  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:15pm

      @RECOVERINGNEOCON

      The 7.62×39 round is also similar to the 7.62×51 (.308), the 7.62×54C, and the 7.62×54R. What’s your point!?

      Mikhail Kalashnikov also borrowed alot of the AK design from several John Browning rifles, are you implying that the AK is also a ripoff of the M1 Garand? Most firearm advances are built of what others did before them. To claim that the AK is ‘just a copy’ is ridiculous.

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:21pm

      In fact…

      ‘Before attempting to create something new, it is vital to have a good appreciation of everything that already exists in this field.’ ~ Mikhail Kalashnikov

      Report Post »  
    • SgtB
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:45pm

      @ anti-spock, WHAT??? You must mean some other weapon than the AK-47 which is chambered for a 7.62X39mm. There is no way you could shoot (with any measure of safety) a 7.62 X 51mm NATO round from an AK of this type. The nato round is over a centimeter longer in case length alone.

      Neither of these weapons are of any consequence. And the author of this story was talking out his rear end when he was speaking about reliability issues with the AR. A well maintained AR can shoot as many rounds before having to be disassembled and fully gone over as any AK. And as far as that 60 round magazine goes… We make 100+ capacity magazines in the aftermarket for AR’s every day of the year. We makem for their guns too. And the ones we build will still let you shoot from the prone position at that.

      Anyone thinking that they will be shooting that huge overbuilt gun one handed obviously won‘t be doing it from any postion other than the prone unless they are a carbon copy of 1980’s steroid abusing Arnold S. And why do they think they have a need for a bullpup 12.7 X 55mm? The ballistic coefficient can’t be that good and the case is small meaning that it will be low velocity. The best use for such a weapon would be clearing houses as the low velocity and heavy round would not have great penetration or accuracy at ranges over 300 yards as the bullet drop would be too much. Basically it would be a heavy room clearing weapon that just adds another cartridge to produce and supply.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • Bill Rowland
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 7:37am

      Anti_Spock,
      The russians have been playing that game for years. They made an 82mm that coud use our 81mm rounds. They had an anti tank rifle that was a 51caliber and could use our 50 machine gun rounds
      I‘m sure there are other examples that I haven’ run across. This is smart, they can use our captured ammo but we can’t use theirs.

      OMG

      Report Post »  
    • C. Schwehr
      Posted on December 8, 2011 at 11:14am

      ANTI-SPOCK: Where did you hear such GARBAGE??? The Russian 7.62×39 round is very dissimilar to the American designed 7.62×51 cartridge, and the AK cannot fire the NATO round unless it is specifically chambered for it.
      You may have confused the round used in the Russian AK-74 (5.45mm vs 5.56mm in the American M-16 style weapons). It is claimed that in a pinch, the AK-74 can also fire the 5.56 mm NATO round in the same chamber. But it’s never been verified to my knowledge.

      Report Post »  
  • Smokey_Bojangles
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:58pm

    Americans can not get them,But any Terrorist can?

    Report Post » Smokey_Bojangles  
    • ShyLow
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:01pm

      I like the new Rossi line-up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5tIdxLvyTI&feature=related

      Report Post » ShyLow  
    • tommyB
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:13pm

      The new rossi? not funny, yeah it is!

      Report Post »  
    • SgtB
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:01pm

      Rossi? You bring up a good point. Why isn’t anyone freaking out that one of the largest arms producing contries is Brazil? Taurus and Rossi are based in Brazil and they make rifles and pistols on former Berretta machines and equipment. The reason, it really doesn’t matter, just like the russians making a new rifle doesn’t matter.

      Report Post » SgtB  
  • godhatesacoward
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm

    You could have a .22 at your side. It is all about precision,training & common sense! The bigger gun does not always win the fight!

    Report Post » godhatesacoward  
    • hidden_lion
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:03pm

      I would take the ASH-12 over a .22 any day. A bad hit with it would be more effective than a good hit with the .22. Pretty sweet gun.

      Report Post » hidden_lion  
    • godhatesacoward
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:09pm

      All I was saying is that there is no gun on the market that it is better than the handler.

      Report Post » godhatesacoward  
    • V-MAN MACE
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:18pm

      You couldn’t have said it any better.

      David killed Goliath with a slingshot.

      Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
    • Secessionista
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:18pm

      Yep. Daddy taught me that all you need is one bullet. With that, and a precision aim and calm hands, you‘ll possess all of the enemy’s armament. Let *them* bring your supplies to you at the front line as you drive them back, lol.

      Report Post » Secessionista  
    • RepubliCorp
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:28pm

      The Cosa Nostra and OSS used the .22 but what would they know

      Report Post » RepubliCorp  
    • paulusmaximus
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 7:26am

      I agree and as for a bad shot a busted knee cap is still a busted knee cap! It about the shooter and will he and can he pull the trigger.

      Report Post » paulusmaximus  
  • Condemoto
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm

    I’m sure glad I got my order in before it was announced.

    Report Post »  
  • SpankDaMonkey
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:55pm

    .
    Dear Santa,

    I have been a very good Monkey this year. Would you please bring me a AK-12 & Ash-12 and a Million rounds for each……..

    Santa your the Best,

    SpankDaMonkey

    Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
  • BONETRAUMA
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:53pm

    60 round mag in combat…..give me a break. where the hell would that come in handy??? full auto just a waste of good ammo. remember you still got to carry ammo and water…so much for 50 cal

    Report Post »  
    • Delta D-5-3
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:55pm

      Yep that’s what I was saying. Great job Russia, had me a lil worried there for a minute, lol.

      Report Post » Delta D-5-3  
    • utterlyamazing
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:35pm

      That’s so terrorists can shoot them into the airl longer when they celebrate a goat being born or something

      Report Post »  
    • Outlaw_Josey_Wales
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:59pm

      Can’t lay on the ground and shoot that AK-12 with a 60 round mag in it, kind of useless in combat.

      Report Post » Outlaw_Josey_Wales  
    • Worldsapart
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 3:30am

      @Utterlyamazing, that is utterly hilarious!

      Report Post »  
  • Amadeus76
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:51pm

    This is a non-issue… I love the AK. It is proven reliable and far more accurate than it gets credit for battle rifle. That being said, those that follow such things know that the AK-200 was and is a dog and pony show by Ishmash meant to procure more funds from the Russian government.

    Unlike some of the recent aftermarket upgrades for the AK designed and built here in the States, the top cover/picatinny rail rattled all over the place and isn’t built to hold zero at all. Is anyone seriously concerned here!?

    Report Post »  
    • Delta D-5-3
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:02pm

      Sorry, you can’t put “accurate” and “AK” in the same sentence. I‘ve owned Ak’s and AR’s, no comparing the two. There’s a reason why our military uses the tried and true AR platform.

      Report Post » Delta D-5-3  
    • V-MAN MACE
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:25pm

      AR all day. Accuracy counts. Stability matters. The reliability issue with ARs is a user issue, not a manufacturing issue, I.E. some are too stupid or poorly hand-eye coodinated to operate the mechanisms with reliable dexterity.

      I can dismantle and reassemble my AR in seconds.

      Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:29pm

      Let me guess… You owned a Century made WASR put together with a Romanian parts kit by a monkey?

      Get a quality made AK, learn to shoot it correctly, and put away your inherent bias and you’ll find the AK is far more accurate than it gets credit for… Just like the AR is far more reliable than it gets credit for.

      Is the AR more accurate than the AK? Yes, but the difference is 1-2 MOA. Perfectly acceptable on a battle rifle.

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:35pm

      Oh… And you’re right, there is a reason why our military uses the AR platform. It’s called politics. Why don’t you look up how the M-16 got adopted in the first place and why recently 90% of the arms makers that were going to compete for the (possible) replacement for the M4 dropped out.

      Report Post »  
    • McNamara
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 11:01pm

      I have a Chinese Norinco SKS…It shoots just fine.

      Report Post » McNamara  
    • SAMADI-SOUL-CRUSHER
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 8:47am

      AK is plenty accurate for its intended use as an assult rifle.Doubt anyone would be willing to let a average shooter take shots at them within 300yards with an AK.

      Report Post »  
    • Dismayed Veteran
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 10:02am

      Anyone who has faced an AK47 in the hands of a skilled marksman gives it a lot of respect. The AK47 is soldier proofed. I don’t have any experience facing the AK74.

      Report Post » Dismayed Veteran  
    • Ruprickt
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 11:47am

      I’ll take an AKM any old day and shoot it better than most fudds with their fancy ARs with optics.

      Report Post »  
    • punisher0276
      Posted on December 7, 2011 at 7:08pm

      I used AKs as a spec op for years as a backup for CQB. They are lucky to make 100 meters and are a great squirt gun nothing more. A well maintained AR will rip the AK every time. Further the stamped reciever cannot take abuse from western ammo. I have seen however Chinese Aks made with milled receievers and they are more accurate to the tuneof 200 yards. The real upgrade I would worry about is the Dragonuv which kills a lot of GIs. When they extend that range then I would worry.

      Report Post »  
  • palerider54
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:51pm

    In some Star Trek episodes the leaders of each country would fight each to settle disputes between their two countries. Putin against Obama?

    Were screwed.

    Report Post »  
  • paperpushermj
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:50pm

    Idiot….. Take your %^&$ Finger off the Trigger !!!!!

    Report Post » paperpushermj  
  • The-Monk
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:49pm

    Don’t tell Eric Holder… he’ll be buying them with our tax dollars and sending them to Mexico.

    Report Post » The-Monk  
  • Ira WIlson
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:49pm

    I’d hate like hell to face either of these weapons in the hands of anyone spoiling for a fight. What’s Russia up to anyway? And, as the article states, how long before our terrorist enemies have these in their arsenal?

    Report Post » Ira WIlson  
    • TXPilot
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:57pm

      The M-4 may not be able to compete with this new AK for firepower, however there are still alot of weapons out there that will. The .308 caliber rifles built on the AR platform are a good example, as well as the venerable FN-FAL. I have never agreed with the military in the wisdom of the 5.56 round, and have always believed that our troops needed a battle rifle in a larger caliber. Being able to carry tons of ammo because it’s small and light is nice, until you realize that you don’t have the firepower to engage anything more than mildly hardened targets with it. When lives are on the line, I’d rather be depending on something like a .308/7.62 round to get the job done.

      Also, considering that stories in the media about guns are rarely accurate, I have to give kudos to The Blaze for presenting one that was fairly correct and coherent.

      Report Post » TXPilot  
    • drago
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:44pm

      @Txpilot
      I too do not care for the 5.56, its one reason i bought a 6.8 upper for my m4, it hits hard, and i can still carry sufficient ammunition, for a prolonged fire fight…..zombies beware……..

      Report Post »  
  • Not_A_Useful_Idiot
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:48pm

    WTF! It an AK with Sure-Fire light, Aimpoint Magnifier, Eotech, Magpul stock and rail system. American ingenuity that may be killing Americans soon. Icertainly hope those are Russian knock-offs and not the real thing. That way they won;t last long or perform well.

    Report Post »  
    • rc30
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:58pm

      Its just not a AK. Look at the AR15 and M-16 from the 70s to now. I have 3 AR15s and love them all. Now my friend has a AR-15 from the 70s colt. I will take my 2006 colt 6920 over that any day. Point being theres allot that could be done to a AK.

      Report Post » rc30  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:58pm

      You do realize that you are saying the Russians can’t build a quality weapon that is reliable and lasts while discussing the Kalashnikov right!?

      Oh, the irony…

      Report Post »  
  • Johnny916
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:46pm

    Awesome!

    Report Post »  
  • American Saint
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:46pm

    12.7×55…Wow…and we’re still shooting a .223 with a 9mm sidearm. Something’s wrong here America.

    Report Post » American Saint  
    • Packerdogs
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:53pm

      You’re not lying. We’re shooting a dang pee shooter up against that.

      Report Post »  
    • Packerdogs
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:54pm

      The 1911 was a pretty effective weapon for, well forever. Not sure why we sidearm a 9mm now.

      Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:57pm

      There is nothing wrong with the 5.56 round, stop drinking the kool-aid.

      The 9mm ball ammo that we are forced to use however is a different story. No need to go back to the .45 that most mindless drones clamor for, just allow us the use of hollowpoints like the police and civilians get.

      Report Post »  
    • 82dAirborne
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:05pm

      Long long time ago when I was in the 82nd I was part of the 9mm evaluation. (9 vs. M1911A1) I know of NO ONE who preferred the 9mm. So in typical fashion the 9mm came to be the standard issue. A true case of: Wait. What????

      Report Post » 82dAirborne  
    • American Saint
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:41pm

      @82dAirborne

      I hear ya man. When I was in, we shot the M1911A1. I never understood the drop in energy foot pounds to a 9mm. Works good in LA for gangs but it’s gotta suck in real combat. I heard some rumors that they were going back to the .45 but I will say the .40 would also be a good alternative to upgrade from the 9mm.

      The 223 is way undersized for combat. I own an AK and the 7.62×39 is nasty when shot side by side to the AR 15 (M16).

      Report Post » American Saint  
    • C. Schwehr
      Posted on December 8, 2011 at 11:41am

      Amadeus76: Hollow point ammo is FORBIDDEN by the Geneva Conventions….The only reason why the U.S. military was forced to go to a substandard cartridge is that the 9mm Parabellum cartridge is standardized in Europe.
      If I were in the military now, and was in a combat zone, I’d have packed by own XP40 and about six boxes of ammo for it (300rds). The XD does fit in the standard pistol holster used these day…already made sure with mine.

      Report Post »  
  • MrMagoo
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:45pm

    Jet, tank,or rifle.May the best man win.USA.

    Report Post » MrMagoo  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:53pm

      In a war where EMP’s would be used, I’d say the rifle would have a very significant role, as would sharp-shooters who don’t rely on battery operated sighting systems, because I’m sure supply lines would be destroyed. In that kind of conflict there would be no replacement for traditional rugged men with sharp-shooter skills.

      Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:02pm

      There is no replacement for reliable tools that men know inside and out. And in reality, the constant changing of tools makes it whereby they never actually know them inside and out and all their opportunities by knowing every character of a tool. I seriously doubt in this day and age a soldier actually knows the rifle like the soldiers knew their rifles in WW1 or WW2.

      Report Post »  
    • thewatcher93
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:11pm

      Infatry weapons are very very very important. New battle field tactics, men will hide in heavly populated areas, tanks and jets only get you so far, before collateral damage mounts up and soldiers are pushed into urban areas.

      Report Post »  
    • MrMagoo
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 9:57pm

      In a Country of 300 million people plus and a gun count of over 350 million at least,that nearly figures 1.3 or more guns for each person.Man,woman and child.After taking most of the children and many women out of the equation,the armed USA citizen would be a formidable force on the ground.All the variables are without question a -wonder- to our enemies.

      Report Post » MrMagoo  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:45pm

    It’s probably more likely that American troops will face them in the hands of the Chinese.

    Report Post »  
  • PunditPawn
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:45pm

    Not much use against a daisy-cutter.

    Report Post »  
  • sjwanderer
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:45pm

    High tech and versatile guns can give an enemy a slight edge but they are still using standard ammo and there is still a human behind the sights with emotions and other thoughts. My only concern is that it is small but still packs a heck of a punch.

    Report Post »  
  • batteredtaxpayer
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:44pm

    Deer hunting just changed!

    Report Post »  
    • Delta D-5-3
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:54pm

      I was thinking the AK-12 probably weighs in around 10lbs WITHOUT the 60rd mag! Yea, good luck carry that POS all day. Not to mention carrying all that ammo for that piece of crap. Great job Russia, nutten to worry bout here folks………..

      Report Post » Delta D-5-3  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 10:00pm

      @DELTA D-5-3,

      Dude the AK74 weighs just over 7lbs. If Izhmash ever actually starts building these, they’ll probably weigh in at about the same.

      Hell, my M4 that I carry is closer to 12lbs after I account for my ACOG, PEQ-15, and light.

      Report Post »  
  • Bonnieblue2A
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:40pm

    60 and 100 round magazines are available in the US for the 5.56. A 60 round mag for 7.76×36 is going to be darned heavy. IIRC we cannot even get larger than the 2- round for the .308 rifles in the M4 platform. This is fairly decently written for a gun piece in a political internet rag; my congratulations to the Blaze staff on that.

    Report Post »  
    • Amadeus76
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:55pm

      The Russians don’t use 7.62×39 in the infantry rifles anymore, they use 5.45×39…

      And on a side note the 7.62×39 is not the same as our own 7.62×51 (.308).

      Report Post »  
  • kurwa
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:34pm

    Don’t mess with the russians!

    Report Post » kurwa  
    • pavepaws
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:42pm

      Take it apart and improve on it, then turn it on them.

      Report Post »  
    • stifroc
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:43pm

      Wow…
      Santa, I want the Ash-12 please.

      Report Post » stifroc  
    • palerider54
      Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:56pm

      My grandma excaped from Russia in 1906. Got a picture of her getting off the boat at NYC. I would rather fight a gang of thugs on the street any day than to fight her. Istill think I could have beat her if she would have fought fair. Them Ruskies are tough when they are sober.

      Report Post »  
  • Huguenot Descendant
    Posted on December 6, 2011 at 8:32pm

    How much for the AK-12?

    Report Post » Huguenot Descendant  
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