HOAs ‘Tread’ on Patriotic Symbols
- Posted on August 31, 2010 at 7:48am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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Yet another homeowner’s association has taken issue with an historic American phrase. After an HOA in Florida told Joe Milenkovic he couldn’t display a “God Bless America” magnet on his garage door, another in Arizona has told Andy C. McDonel that he cannot display his “Don’t Tread on Me” flag. The irony seems apparent.
After flying the flag above his house, the New York Times reports, he received a letter from the HOA telling him to “remove ‘the debris’ from his roof.”
“It’s a patriotic gesture,” McDonel, who has vowed to fight the HOA’s mandate, told the Times. “It’s a historic military flag. It represents the founding fathers. It shows this nation was born out of an idea.”
The HOA defends itself by saying it’s only enforcing Arizona law:
Should the Arizona Legislature expand the Community Association Flag Display Statute to include the Gadsden Flag, the Association will accommodate Mr. McDonel’s desire to display it. Bottom-line, anyone considering residing in a community association should carefully review the association’s governing documents beforehand to ensure that the community is a good fit for them.
The American Civil Liberties Union has come to McDonel’s defense:
We’re urging the homeowners’ association to adopt a less limited interpretation of the statute,” said Dan Pochoda, the legal director for the civil liberties group. “The Gadsden flag meets the spirit of the law. It’s a historic military flag. Many consider it the original American flag, before the Stars and Stripes.
According to the article, similar battles are raging in Colorado and Connecticut.
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Comments (42)
BurntHills
Posted on September 5, 2010 at 7:25pmwe have to get our NEW politicians to put into law that anything pro-AMERICAN {OUR FLAG, GOD Bless AMERICA, etc} -related is SAFE from these morons.
Report Post »FreedomIQ
Posted on September 3, 2010 at 12:03pmLiberty and HOA‘s don’t co-exist very well. HOA‘s don’t provide much in the way of value unless you’re afraid of your neighbor, you’re a neighborhood busy-body, or you are sick and neurotic seeking and the HOA is your vehicle.
The time has come for residents in these “Marxist-model” covenant CONTROLLED communities to begin the process of abolishing their HOA’s and re-joining America…it’s about time!
Report Post »Daragon29
Posted on September 2, 2010 at 3:38amWell, If you own the house and land..Can’t you tell them to shut up and go away?
Report Post »micacqu
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 10:22amOne question. I never lived in a neighborhood that was controlled by a Home owners association. If I want to move into the house of my “ dreams ” but its in a neighborhood controlled by HOA. Is my only choices to, give up the house of my dreams, or follow HOA rules and give up my right to live my life as I see fit? How did these organizations get so much power and control?
Report Post »aquajim
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 8:06amThe HOA says it is only enforcing Arizona law?
Report Post »What Arizona law prohibits the flying of flags?
SRM152
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 12:26amWow, Glen and company, what maybe 24 hours out of the block and you already have a huff huff lackey making a fool of themselves. You have them running scared big time. Go for it! I bet suppy isn’t even a person of color as the Monique would have us believe. The deliberately misspelled words and the affected ebonics are a dead give away. Keep it up suppy you are a direct reflection of just how terrified all you progressives are. Just for the record liberation theology is from the lord of flies.
Report Post »LeatherneckJon
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 12:21amPart of me says; “serves you right for agreeing to that kind of nonsense.” I hold my property rights too dear to EVER join an HOA. Why would anyone set themselves up to be dictated to like that!
Report Post »Black Robe Regiment
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 11:40pmHere in Florida God is under attack in other ways. I am a Fire Dept. Chaplain and have had my Chaplains Web page taken away because of ONE citizens complaint, and now ONE commissioner who incidently is the one citizens friend has now called for the removal of prayer at the start of the monthly Fire Board Meetings. He wants to do away with it in favor of a moment of silence.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 12:02amWhat a great idea!! Gag the commissioner for one minute of silence. Then you can pray’em if you got em!
Silversmith
Report Post »IX-XI
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:33pmWe voted our HOA out of existence.
When a few too many dictatorial letters had been left in door hanger envelopes, every single person in the subdivision had had it up to here. So we took a vote, and eliminated our HOA.
Our neighborhood is so much nicer without those busybodies peering into our private business.
Report Post »LAUS DEO
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:30pmYour better off not getting a home that is a part of one of these HOAs. You are buying a piece of land why give someone any say over it.
Report Post »chilloutyo
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:25pmHOAs are for Communists.
Report Post »18th airborne
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:16pmHOA ha ha!!! get yourself a flat tire coming out to the boondocks to get to my house!!!!
Report Post »kcrad
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:13pmThis is the reason people must take the time to check out these things prior to purchasing a home. I could never live somewhere that had those restrictions. I bet most people don’t even realize they are actually giving away their freedoms when they move to one of those neighborhoods. Just another really good reason to live in the country….not within a sub-division.
Report Post »AZBabe
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 4:45pmHOA’s should concentrate on maintaining common areas, not telling a homeowner what kind of flag they can fly or what kind of tree they can plant in their front yard. Unfortunately, it is impossible here in Arizona to find a subdivision that does not have a HOA. I don’t need someone telling me to cut my grass or keep my yard clean. They are becoming too powerful and make millions off of our yearly dues.
Report Post »Brooke Lorren
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 3:22amI agree. I don’t have a home now, but I’d like to own one someday. What are your choices? 1) buy a trailer and put it on a piece of land somewhere, 2) buy an old, run down home and live in it, or 3) buy an old, run down home, tear it down, and build a new one. There aren’t too many non-HOA choices around here.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 3:00pmIMACRACKER,
Of course you agree with the ACLU on this issue. The ACLU is remarkably consistent in defending the constitutional rights of American citizens. Inevitably, some of those citizens are going hold ideas similar to your own, so I suppose you might even agree with the constitution once in a while!
Speaking of consistency, I am not sure exactly why this is such a big story here. I am going to venture to guess that a lot of you folks call yourself “libertarians.” You’re against big govenment and other such forces of oppression, right? So why do you feel the need to make hay out of what are essentially a few local issues in Florida and Arizona? Do these folks they have the right to determine the rules of their own communities without pressure from people a thousand miles away? Not to be overly flippant, but wouldn’t it be, in this case, more ideologically consistent to mind your own business?
I think these issues indeed need to be worked out, because laws themselves are not applied on a case-by-case basis in the court of public opinion. Either you support local self-determination, or you believe that national forces should have a say in what happens in your back yard.
Publius Pencilman
publiuspencilman.blogspot.com
Trollspotting
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:35pm“The ACLU is remarkably consistent in defending the constitutional rights of American citizens.”
Report Post »“a lot of you folks”
“mind your own business”
You appear to be trolling for trouble. The ACLU is remarkably consistent in defending troublemakers. Do your research. They are not defending constitutional rights. And who are “you folks”? If “we folks” does not include you, go away and annoy “your folks”. And if you do not want us to mind the business of nanny staters outside of our geo-domain, what are you doing minding our business outside of your intellectual league?
independentvoteril
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 11:08amI find this whole thing funny.. if you have a home so you can do things you WANT to do WHY would you move in a community with a HOA it’s an opposite to WHY you bought a home.. I would rather put up with a neighbor who’s grass it to long than to be dictated as to what kind of flag I can or can not fly.. and to top it off you get to PAY for being dictated to.. My husband and I brought our house 5 years ago and REFUSED to even consider a community that had a HOA but than we aren’t snobs and beleive that each person has the right to have FREEDOM for his land..
Liberty4America
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:48amAnother good reason NOT to buy a house where there is a Homeowner Association. They can tell you what you can have in your driveway, what color you can paint your house, and yes….what Flag you can fly!
Report Post »F16JetJock
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:03amPerhaps their reasoning is to preclude anti-American homeowners from displaying flags such as the repugnant Islamic crescent flag and the less repugnant Mexican flag. However, they could solve this problem by simply adding language to the HOA Rules and Regulations to the effect that only flags of American historical significance are permitted.
Rubicon Cross
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:46amIt is hard to imagine that any organization could have more centralized power than the Obamanista regime has co-opted, but an HOA does. In most states they have the authority to do just about anything they please without restraint or recourse including foreclosure. Consequently, as “absolute power corrupts absolutely” the behaviour of a typical HOA is driven by the character (or lack thereof) of its members. Which unfortunately can very often remind a homeowner more of Benito Mussulino than George Washington.
Brooke Lorren
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 3:17amI’ve always wondered how HOAs would foreclose on a home if it was already paid for…
Report Post »John Hahn
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:44amQuite frankly, I don’t understand how anyone could/would give up rights as a property owner. As far as that goes, let’s take it one step farther…who would presume the authority to dictate what one or another can/could/would do with their property that didn’t pose a pubic THREAT!.
MrSatyre
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:43amIt’s really six of one, half-dozen of the other if you stop and think about it. On the one hand, you have patriotic symbolism, which is highly commendable, and on the other you have visible clutter which varies drastically from one house to the next. If ALL the homes abide by the same regulations as to type and placement of flags and other symbols (as they do on military bases), everything would be uniform and neat. But everyone wants to be unique (and who can argue with that).
Therein lies the problem, however, in that if you desire home values in this lousy economy to be maintained based on curb appeal and uniformity of the neighborhood as a whole, you cannot be unique past that invisible, undefinable line. If everyone put up whatever they wanted, wherever they wanted, pretty quickly your street would look like the front yard of “Sanford and Son”. One man‘s treasure is another man’s eyesore; it IS a good thing to have uniformity, at least where neighborhoods are concerned. I really don‘t think it’s a matter of the HOA in question not approving “of” the aforementioned flag or signage, but wishing to maintain a more reserved, less cluttered look because everyone has completely different taste where size, color and placement are concerned.
My own HOA is a mess (sends warning letters to the wrong households on a regular basis, for example).
Report Post »AmericanDawg
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 9:10amI see your point , but since we have many neighborhood without HOA‘s I can’t agree with your Sanford and son analogy …Most cities and towns have ordinances against Junk in your yard.
Report Post »We can live in “Cookie Cutter ” neighborhoods and thats fine for some people , I prefer individualism and freedom of expression…
ImaCracker
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:43amI’m surprised that the ACLU took the side of the homeowner. Finally, they have taken a stand I can support. It’s a miracle!
Report Post »KenM2
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 11:16amI can’t believe it either…..I was floored by this!
Report Post »SRM152
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 12:38amIn reply to suppy not IMA……
Report Post »Actually huff huff lackey what makes this unique is not the color of the man’s skin but the content of his character: he is a conservative! If you put half the effort you put into cunning and deception into reasoning things through you just might get something right once in a while.
TheMidnightReview
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 4:32amThe ACLU is a big proponent for homeowners rights – the Community Association Institute is actively trying to destroy property rights to give these quasi-government corporations power over our property…
Report Post »gspthebest
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 9:29amLove your name
Report Post »AmericanDawg
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:05amIn my experience with Home Owner Associations , they tend to act like mini Dictators…
Report Post »And if you live in a community that has one you can bet they already have a file on you …
Just in Case you get out of line in the future…
Founder
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:04amThe problem is that an HOA can be formed AFTER you’ve purchased your home AND you may or may not be “grandfathered” out of compliance.
anth
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:35amCan you cite an example? I’ve never heard of such a thing, and it violates the common legals mechanisms by which HOAs are typically established. If you own the property, how could someone force you to join such a thing? This claim is fishy.
Sylvester
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 10:03amI am a 13 year HOA/Condo industry professional. Your claim is totally FALSE. You cannot place restrictions on land after the fact unless you sign a document to be bound by them. In addition, your mortgage company would have to agree to it. HOA’s are formed in the early stages of land development and filed with the Clerk of the Court PRIOR TO THE FIRST CLOSING.
Shinobipatriot
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 1:25amActually in some places HOA’s have been formed after you purchase the property. It depends on if the local ordinances allow it. Very few do but we had a case here in wacky Cali that is moving up the courts right now. It’s at the state supreme court last I heard. It’s not right, but sometimes it is the law and will be that way until someone finally spends their own money to fight it. I expect the Law that allows HOA’s to be enforced on a home owner after purchase of the home will be thrown out; but until then crazy, un-constitutional and un-American things like this do happen.
Report Post »TheMidnightReview
Posted on September 1, 2010 at 4:31amOne example is http://www.sandlakehillslawsuit.com
The neighborhood there has gone above and beyond, threatening legal action against neighboring subdivisions that don’t pay them…
Beverly Barnum
Posted on August 31, 2010 at 8:04amWould you believe I even had to fight mine to install solar panels and a solar water heater, in sunny Texas no less!