Government

How Congress’ Tax-Cut Decision May Affect Economy

WASHINGTON (AP) — On this, economists agree: Extending tax cuts passed under President George W. Bush for low- and middle-income people would strengthen the weak economy.

The question is what to do about the highest-paid 3 percent of taxpayers. Should Congress let their tax cuts expire at year’s end as scheduled? Extend them for only a while? Or make them permanent?

It isn’t just a debate over how much money high-income Americans should get to keep. It’s about how much their tax cuts might aid the economy. And how much they’ll affect the budget deficit years from now.

But first, consider what would happen next year if Congress let the tax cuts for everyone expire as scheduled. According to Moody’s Analytics, the deficit would drop to $732 billion. That’s well below the $1.3 trillion deficit for the budget year that ended Sept. 30.

At the same time, the economy would suffer, Moody’s says: Growth would tail off to just 0.9 percent next year. That’s scarcely more than a recessionary pace. And unemployment would average 10.7 percent next year.

That’s because higher taxes would leave people with less money to spend. Businesses would be less inclined to hire. Economic growth would slide. Yet if Democrats and Republicans can’t reach a deal during the post-election lame-duck session that began this month, taxes will rise across the board in January.

Republicans triumphant in the midterm elections insist that everyone, regardless of income, should continue to enjoy the tax cuts approved during George W. Bush’s presidency.

President Barack Obama wants to extend the tax cuts for individuals with taxable incomes below $200,000 a year and couples with incomes below $250,000. Taxable income is a taxpayer’s total income minus allowable deductions and exemptions.

Obama has long argued that income above those levels should be taxed at the higher rates that existed before 2001. Yet since his party suffered major losses in the elections, Obama has signaled a willingness to compromise. The White House has indicated he is open to a one- or two-year extension of the tax cuts but opposes a permanent extension for the highest earners.

Here’s how analysts think each of the three leading options would affect the economy next year:

—

OPTION ONE: Let the tax rates for the highest earners rise back to what they were before 2001, when the first round of Bush tax cuts was passed. But extend them permanently for everyone else. This is what Obama favors.

Moody’s Analytics says that under this scenario, the economy would grow 2.6 percent in 2011. That’s better than the scant 0.9 percent growth envisioned if everyone’s tax cuts expired.

Economists note that low- and middle-income people tend to spend more of their take-home pay than the highest-earners do. That’s especially true in a tough economy.

Still, unemployment would average 10 percent next year, up from the 9.7 percent estimated for this year. The jobless rate would tick up as growth weakened slightly next year.

This reflects the Republican argument that a tax increase for high-income taxpayers would hurt some small-business owners, making them less inclined to hire.

The budget deficit would fall to $904 billion in 2011, from $1.3 trillion in the just-ended budget year. That would be due to the additional taxes paid by higher-income Americans.

___

OPTION TWO: Extend the tax cuts for one or two years for the highest earners and permanently for everyone else.

Moody’s Analytics estimates this scenario would help the economy more than the first approach. The economy would grow 2.95 percent next year — a 0.4 percentage point improvement over Option One.

Unemployment would average 9.9 percent next year. That would be slightly worse than the 9.7 percent average rate estimated for this year. Stronger growth wouldn’t be enough to prevent the unemployment rate from rising as more jobseekers, perhaps feeling better about their prospects, resume their search for work.

Even though no one’s taxes would rise in 2011, the budget deficit would drop to $943 billion from $1.3 trillion this year. That’s because tax revenue would rise as people spent more and stimulated more economic activity.

The reasoning is that Option Two would deliver a psychological boost: Americans, regardless of income, would know their income taxes wouldn’t rise anytime soon. High earners would have more money to spend than under Option One.

Obama and Republicans have signaled their openness to extending the tax cuts for everyone temporarily, perhaps for one or two years. That would force Obama to face the issue again in 2012, when he’ll likely seek re-election. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, R-Ky., says he’ll fight to make sure no one, regardless of income, would face a tax increase once any extended tax cuts expire.

Supporters say the economy is too fragile now to boost taxes even on the highest earners and risk causing them to spend less. At the same time, a temporary extension wouldn’t necessarily swell the budget deficit over the long run.

___

OPTION THREE: Make the tax cuts permanent for everyone. This is the plan Republicans favor.

By Moody’s calculations, the impact on unemployment, growth and the deficit in 2011 would be the same as in Option Two.

Still, renewing the tax cuts across the board would swell the debt over the next decade by nearly $4 trillion, the Congressional Budget Office says. That’s even after accounting for the extra revenue that would flow to the government as permanently lower taxes boosted spending and growth.

Besides, many economists say high-income Americans tend to squirrel away most of the tax money they save. A report from the Congressional Budget Office agreed.

Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, calculated that when higher earners get an extra dollar of after-tax income, they spend just 40 cents of it. Middle-income Americans spend 66 cents. The poor spend almost all of it. Even so, as higher earners chip in and spend, the economy benefits.

Allen Sinai, chief economist at Decision Economics, fears that letting the tax cuts for high-income Americans expire could reduce the flow of money into private equity firms, venture capital and other investments that “grease the wheels of entrepreneurship in the U.S. economy.”

Under Sinai’s estimates, extending the tax cuts for all would provide the biggest boost to spending and growth. People and businesses would know they could count on the money in the future.

Yet even if the tax cuts were extended for everyone, unemployment would still be expected to rise next year. Economic growth still wouldn’t be robust enough to create enough jobs.

Comments (119)

1 2 3
  • servantshart
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:51am

    I am so sick and tired of these people ignoring what the rest of us KNOWS what needs to be done!
    CUT THE SPENDING!!!!!!!!!
    Not ONCE did iI read in this artical the phrase“ Spending cuts”

    Report Post » servantshart  
  • seeker9
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:39am

    Remember Hillary’s complaint that there are too many rich people in this country?
    Would taxing the wealthy more give the middle class more money to spend?
    The progressives always need a demon to protect the middle class from. Big business, big oil, doctors, CEO’s, big insurance, the wealthy, etc. The goal is to reduce the number of rich people in order to make a more “stable” economy.

    Report Post » seeker9  
    • seeker9
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 11:11am

      One could argue that lots of rich people would act as a stimulus during economic downturns. They would be ones that keep spending

      Report Post » seeker9  
  • mark t
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:29am

    They(wineycrat’s) will continue to call Republican‘s the party of NO and continue the class warfare into 2012 and beond because it work’s for them(unless people wake up and get their new’s from otherthan john stewart and the viewF@#%er’s)!!!!!!!!

    Report Post » mark t  
  • mark t
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:22am

    Lame Duck=wineycrat’s are still in full controll(they will do whatever they want) and if you dont think youre taxes are being increased as we speak; you are a fool (ie gas tax cig tax etc.) that is a tax on everyone including the poorest american’s(the morons that think the dem’s are looking out for them): tax cut’s do not add to the debt or deficit spending does(ie more entitlement spending) and untill the healthcare law is repealed(people still dont know what all is in it) business’s wont expand for fear of more taxes(they can see all the tax increase’s the little people are to dumb to see);;;; untill the socialist commies are out of the whitehouse everyone beware:(ie they couldnt pass cap and tax so obama’s appointee to the EPA will regulate and tax without legislation)
    COME ON PEOPLE GET A CLUE!!!!!!!!!!!! (you know who you are)

    Report Post » mark t  
  • Hugie 59 PA
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:04am

    Pelosi plans on blocking any compromise. Why? To continue to collapse this economy so they, the progressives can fundamentally change the form of governance. If this is false, what is her motivation?She and her colleagues can block and stall until the elctions in 2012 to achieve their goal of the expansion of government. Europe is falling apart yet progressives want to copy their governments. Maybe I am too kind because she isn’t very bright but she and her ilk are being used to achieve the goal.

    Report Post »  
  • OklahomaBeck
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:40am

    Here is a plan. Make a budget to fit projected income! Stop the spending! Oh, the dems won’t do a budget.

    Report Post »  
  • printdesignchicago.com
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:31am

    how about we not only extend them, but let’s cut them even MORE?

    Report Post » printdesignchicago.com  
  • Living In NYC
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:29am

    Do the right thing, give all the tax cuts, let the min wage be market driven and… balance the federal buget to receivables (a term the federal govt needs to learn….receivables = current taxes collected) a term that used to be learned in 10th grade business class! That was when we taught “real” topics in the Public Schools!

    Gee…so simple and isn’t that the right thing to do!

    Report Post » Living In NYC  
    • silentwatcher
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 12:07pm

      their idea of ‘budget’ is what they WANT for spending, not what they have. If they don’t have enough money for the agendas, they print money or borrow. Damned if they are going to do without. Now they may be able to easily raise taxes to fund an even larger ‘budget’ and nothing changes except the deficit.

      Report Post »  
  • popeyebedford
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:24am

    I don’t see anything in there from Moodys about what happens if we remove 50% of the bureaucrats and useless departments in the federal government. Nothing in their about cutting by the government at all. All that overhead of government continues, and we the people get squeezed some more. What the country needs to do is get together and strike, the whole damn country needs to stay home and drink beer. Send the bureaucrats home to drink beer to, and lets see what really happens. All this scare everyone to death is getting old. I didn’t buy the original TARP swindle, or the bigges heist in history that Bush in his ignorance bought from that Hank Paulson Treasury Secretary from Goldman Sachs who by the way are making zillions what ever happens to your taxes. I say screw em, just stay home and whatever happens happens. The only way to stop the government from spending like drunken sailors is the starve the bastards. Take away their perpetual piggy bank and lets see what they do….

    Report Post »  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 9:46am

      Amen to those crimes, we can have nothing until we prosecute the crimes committed
      in the CDO’s Fraud, soon they will say it’s been to long ago to go back and
      Prosecute , and I feel the new Congress has NO INTENTION of arresting
      anyone tied to GS or JPM hell they didn’t even do anything to Charlie Rangle ?

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
  • NickDeringer
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 6:52am

    Option 4: C U T S P E N D I N G!

    Report Post » NickDeringer  
    • common everyday citizen
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:07am

      Option 5: Cut Spending and Cut Taxation Without Representation
      AND
      End the private Fed who have been stealing from US all, which by the way Fiat money is against the US Constitution. Why the confusion? Why does this persist as a plague that our leaders refuse to face when the cure is within their duty to do so?

      Report Post »  
    • NickDeringer
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:03am

      @common everyday citizen

      Why does it persist? Because we allow it to. We throw a bunch of people in a big room with trillions of dollars and we expect them to act honorably.

      We need to hold them accountable.

      Report Post » NickDeringer  
  • NHABE64
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 6:30am

    Obama wants to do whatever will hurt our country and transform us into a world socialist state nightmare with him and Aunt Jemima at the helm. The Republican and Tea Party Patriots want us to have permanent tax cuts for EVERYONE. We the People want whats best for America so the sooner Obama and his entourage depart the White House for Never Never Land the better for all of us. Just a no brainer here folks.

    Report Post »  
  • Conserving Ink
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 6:25am

    Two words – Fair Tax.
    _____________________________________________
    http://conserving-ink.blogspot.com

    Report Post » Conserving Ink  
  • dcwu
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 5:30am

    Option 5:

    Cut taxes.

    Report Post »  
  • ADMIRAL747
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 4:09am

    How about enforcing taxes on illegal immigrants before giving them tuition assistance and the right to vote?

    Report Post »  
  • scout n ambush
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:29am

    They should do the fair tax but then they wouldn’t be able to get their hands on so much money.And they would have a harder time giving themselves raises and also producing more gov’t jobs.”Were from the gov‘t and We’re here to help “……ourselves. If they can at least leave the tax rate where it’s at.Hopefully it can be fixed after the new people are sworn in.

    Report Post » scout n ambush  
  • WISEPENNY
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:12am

    It would be nice if they would get out of our way by dropping the uncertain taxes looming. Everyone would relax and begin to do business if they were certain that any profits could be realized by a consumer public not being so nervous to pull out some of their rainy day cash. Likewise, the diligent and prudent small business owners aren’t even just about to get slaphappy with the money they have sidelined with no one knowing what the uncertain tax situation might turn out to be. It will be better to suffer through another 2 years and finish the onslaught we started in 2010 by taking the Senate and White house back from these simpletons that are bent on trashing our Constitution, Economy, and Morale while pursuing their State Capitalist Nirvana. The House can drag their feet while initiating several hearings on the constitutionality of the three ring “Czar Circus” we’ve been force fed by our Mr.BHO’s runaway Administration”s circumvention of Constitutional Law whenever we were not watching them like people you can’t trust any further than you can throw them! It’s been like trying to keep track of a bunch of juvenile delinquents on a field trip from reform school. It’s getting damned old, too! If they blow off this tax extension, it can be assumed that they conspired to do so as a direct retaliation to the American voters who kicked their worthless asses out on November 2nd. It will be an exemplary proof that they don‘t give one flip for the good of this nation’s well being, only their own self serving, vindictive selves. Period!

    Report Post »  
    • Bluegill
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 9:15am

      Exactly, every day the tax cuts are delayed adds another day to the recession. The uncertainty is killing the recovery. Yes the there are other options than the 3 above, cut taxes, cut spending, go back to 2007 levels or how about even lower. The CBO calculations have to be off, revenues will increase due to the increase in the velocity of money.

      Report Post » Bluegill  
  • upsetagainin2010
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:25am

    Downsize and Decentralize Government. Let some of those people go into the private sector and possibly open a business, that way they too can help with taxes instead of being a drain on the private sector. How about having a flat tax for all.

    Report Post »  
  • smamere
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:20am

    Interesting that we do all the working and they do all the taking. In my neighborhood that’s is called theft and it is a felony.

    Report Post » smamere  
  • Alky
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:01am

    Just leave the tax rates as they are and make them permanent, what’s so hard about that? Then cut government spending and all will be well again.

    Report Post » Alky  
  • GoingBeck
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:47am

    Reduce the federal government to its original departments and agencies and all will be restored to fiscal sanity.

    Report Post »  
    • American_Woman
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:59am

      Amen!

      Report Post » American_Woman  
    • anunyapete
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 10:35am

      Exactly. You make a budget by looking at your available revenues and spending accordingly. Governments (State and Federal, under both the Dems and Repubs) have come to the point where they make their budgets bassakwards — they plan the spending, then hope they have the revenues to cover the spending. Who else would consider tax cuts (allowing you and I to keep more of the fruits of our labor) an additional “cost” in a budget. Hiow many times do we here the pols in DC say something along the lines of “how we are goig to pay for thios tax cut”.

      YOU DON’T PAY FOR TAX CUTS.

      You reduce your spending to a level where it matches your income…!!!

      Report Post »  
  • Richlove1
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:43am

    Tax cuts ALWAYS lead to higher revenues. This crap about increasing deficits through the well-off not paying at higher rates is based on the false and communistic idea that the money “belongs” to the government, and “allowing” people to keep their own money takes it away from the commissars in central planning, so creating a deficit… that never existed in the first place. The assumption is also that the wealthy would not find ways to shelter their “extra” money, and just do as they are told. Suckers!

    Report Post »  
    • calijohn
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:33am

      revenues have increased every year except 2 or 3 over the last 50 years regardless of raising or lowering tax rates.
      the top 400 “earners” pay less than 17% on an average of over$370,000,000 per year each.
      the top 100 corporations pay little if any federal tax due to shell corporations in the cayman islands, belize, etc.
      go to the tax foundation and get some more startling numbers.
      the simple fact is that those who earn $250,000 per year or less are more apt to put more of that money back into the economy than those who are in the top 2 or 3 percent. the increase for the top earners is from 35% to 39.4%. this is hardly a back-breaking increase.
      as one of the earlier posters stated, “do the right thing”.
      keep the lower rates for the middle class (most probably the vast majority of the readers of the blaze) and let the rates for the top tier rise to pre-bush levels.

      Report Post »  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:56am

      @ calijohn….sure continue the class war…..commies thrive on it . i have a better idea………….every person pays the same amount percentage wise. if you dont have skin in the game you shouldnt have a say. now go dump out that coolaide and get yourself out of pelosi’s pantsuit

      Report Post » Psychosis  
    • calijohn
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:10am

      psychosis -
      i take it you are in favor of “citizens united”?

      Report Post »  
    • ADMIRAL747
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:58am

      @CALIJOHN
      Why can‘t Obama’s new army of International Revenue Agents go after these top 400 earners? Here is an iteresting statement from Senator Lemieux:If federal spending were held at the 2007 level for 10 years, the budget would be balanced in 2013 and the national debt, currently $13.7 trillion, would be less than $7 trillion in 2020, with annual savings of hundreds of billions in debt-service costs. Absent action, he says, interest payments in 2020 on a debt of $26 trillion will be $900 billion.
      http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/20/will-a-senator-looks-back-to-the-future.html

      Let’s cut the number of federal employees back to 2007 levels and decrease the salaries of all new 6 figure positions under this administration to the average pay of taxpayers. There is no reason 6 of the 10 richest counties should surround Washington DC.

      Report Post »  
  • cheezwhiz
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:31am

    Option 4 :
    Don‘t increase anyone’s taxes.
    All those who think taxes should be raised should just write a check , voluntarily, to the US Treasury, as a self- tribute to their patriotism.

    Report Post » cheezwhiz  
  • chuchu12
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:30am

    watch the other hand…the prez really wants to raise taxes on 100% of the population and wants to blame it on the GOP

    Report Post »  
    • calijohn
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:22am

      source?

      Report Post »  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 2:53am

      @calijohn.you ask for source , i retort with common sense, but dont worry yourself, as it is obviously your eyes that are lying to you

      Report Post » Psychosis  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 9:48am

      S 510 bill just passed in the Senate this will lead to taxes on food you grow
      or chickens you raise.Next will be the Carbon Tax to tax the Air you breath.

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
    • FREE-FOR-ALL
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 11:30am

      CALIJOHN, Here’s a history lesson for ya. look it up.Your Social Security Card, what a JOKE. 1.Social Security cards up untill the 1980s expressly stated the number and card were not to be used for identification purposes. we all know what happend with that. 2.Frnklin Roosevelt introduced Social Security program. HE PROMISED. participation would be completely voluntar, what happed their. The participants rate now 7.65% back door tax. 3.That the money the participant elected to put in the program would be tax deductible, no longer. another backdoor tax!!. 4. That the money would be put in an Independent “TRUST (what a laugh trust) FUND” rather than the General operating fund. would only be used to fund Social Securtity, and no other programs. Under Pres Johnson the money was moved to the General Fund and SPENT. nothing but a big IOU. another TAX? 5. That the annuity payments to the retirees would never be taxed as income. WELL LOOKE another TAX. under Pres Clinton & Gore up to 85% or you Social Security can be TAXED. There are other things Like giving Immigrants Social Security payments who have never paid a dime into it. All this done by the Demoratic Party, and they tell you that the Republicans want to take you Social Security away.

      Report Post »  
  • American_Woman
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:25am

    How about bringing all Federal employees salaries down to what the average tax-payer earns? Just think, then they could also get a possible short-term tax break.

    Report Post » American_Woman  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:38am

      Yep.
      Start with the congress-critters.
      And takeaway their lavish perks too.

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • BoilitDown
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 4:29am

      American-Woman:
      Exactly right! Equivalent pay with the private sector and a drastic reduction of government bureaucrats is urgently in order.
      Also to the point, de-incentivize “career politicians” and their ability to buy votes with taxpayer dollars.

      Report Post »  
    • always watching
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 5:40am

      What? And risk losing their votes? Less people beholden to the dems means less votes for them. They want MORE federal employees, MORE people on unemployment, MORE people on welfare.

      Report Post »  
    • GOTT-EM-MAUSER
      Posted on November 29, 2010 at 4:10pm

      Now you’re talking. The AVERAGE Gov. Worker is paid $150,000.00 per year. The AVERAGE Private Sector Worker makes $60,000.00 per year. I know for a fact that I can live quite well on $60,000, so first place to cut would be to cut by half all these RICH GOVERNMENT DRONES. NOBODY in the Govt. makes more than $60,000.00.

      Then CUT the number of GOVERNMENT DRONES by 30%or more and FREEZE the whole shebang until we pay of the National Debt.

      STOP ALL FOREIGN AID PERIOD FOREVER.

      STOP ALL CONTRIBUTIONS TO THE U.N. FOREVER and give them 30 days to vacate the building they are in. Sell it to Donald Trump.

      Repeal the Internal Revenue Code and use the FAIR TAX on consumption, straight across the board.

      DISBAND the Federal Reserve, and issue new currency backed by something that actually has value, even if it is redeemable only in goats.

      Bring every GI home that we have spread across the Globe being the World Police, and close the Bases we maintain there.

      Use the troops to SEAL OUR BORDERS, and then round up and deport every Muslim and Communist to the country of their choice. And see to it that they never return nor do anymore ever get in.

      Then set up CONTROLLED IMMIGRATION of those that would be of ASSISTANCE to this country, not a parasitic drain on it, or that want to kill all of us.

      PASS ONE NEW LAW: If you don’t work, assuming you are physically able, you don’t eat. Then find something for all the Welfare Recipients to do, even if they have to trim grass with a pair of siccisors. They’d need to pass a drug test to keep their job and their check. We have to.

      STOP the SOCIAL SECURITY and MEDICARE Pyramid Schemes for the younger folks, and let them have some chance at actually having a retirement and medical care in their old age.

      Do away with all the useless Federal Agencies, Dept of Education, Agriculture, BATFE, etc. In short STOP PAYING PEOPLE TO FAIL at solving problems that really don’t exist.

      REBUILD our Industrial Base, and Arm this Country to the Teeth, and tell the rest of the World to Go Ahead On with whatever they think they can pull off.

      With the ECO NAZIS having been deported, we should start drilling and mining our own natural resources in a responsible and rational manner, while doing whatever is required to become Energy Independant from the rest of the World and their BS.

      Gather a group of SHARP 8th GRADERS and have them READ the Constitution and tell us what they get from it. Then Convene Congress and require that EVERY BS LAW on the books that doesn’t pass muster is automatically NULL and VOID.

      AMEND the U.S. CONSTITUTION to prohibit any LAWYER, or individual that once thought about becoming a LAWYER, from ever serving in any part of the Government, except the Justice Department.

      REMOVE EVERY SITTING JUDGE from the SCOTUS down to TRAFFIC COURT, and hold Elections to replace all of them. Give each new one a copy of the CONSTITUTION and the 8th Grader’s Opinion to go by.

      PASS A LAW: Offering a BOUNTY per HEAD for ALL Lobbyists, Influence Peddlers, Money Jews, Do Gooders Associations, Consultants, etc.

      Go Back to PUBLIC HANGINGS with required attendance by the masses, as the preferred Penalty for High Crimes and Misdemeanors in the PUBLIC SECTOR, and for Murderers, Rapists, Child Molesters, etc. etc. in the PRIVATE SECTOR. This alone would save BILLIONS in wasted TIME and TAX MONEY.

      That would get us started nicely, and balnce the budget/pay off the National Debt in a couple of years. Of course there is LOTS MORE that NEEDS to be done beyond this, but we would want to do this Incrementally, so as to not SHOCK the Sheeple too much.

      Report Post »  
  • New-American-Saviors
    Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:15am

    Just Do the Right thing for once. Then in 5 years start stealing again. But give us a bit of a break.
    NO one understands the entire ramifications and the snowball effect. And Muzzle Pelosi.

    Report Post »  
    • snowleopard3200 {mix art}
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:16am

      Economic on this is very simple. More money to invest means more jobs created; more jobs created means more people employed to extend the economy…net result more money inflowed into the economy spent on things, goods, and additional taxable investments. Net effect on revenues is that there will be more money brought in, while the economy expands.

      This will take several years, unless the ever loving Feds will get the blazes out of our way, and let the people of America get back to doing what we do best. We have a problem and we find the way to make it into an opportunity of success.

      Mr Obama, get the heck out of the way and let us get on with saving the country.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • ADMIRAL747
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 3:52am

      If federal spending were held at the 2007 level for 10 years, the budget would be balanced in 2013 and the national debt, currently $13.7 trillion, would be less than $7 trillion in 2020, with annual savings of hundreds of billions in debt-service costs. Absent action, he says, interest payments in 2020 on a debt of $26 trillion will be $900 billion.

      http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/20/will-a-senator-looks-back-to-the-future.html

      Report Post »  
    • A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 4:08am

      “Still, renewing the tax cuts across the board would swell the debt over the next decade by nearly $4 trillion, the Congressional Budget Office says.”

      ONLY IF YOU’RE STILL SPENDING. CUT THE FRIGGIN SPENDING, ALREADY! Department of Education, Social Security, Medicare, Obamacare – get rid of them now.

      It’s like those we elected are still CLUELESS about the fact that the Obama Administration IS TRYING to destroy the American economy!

      It’s Cloward and Piven, you morons! Wake the hell up!

      Report Post »  
    • ADMIRAL747
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 4:14am

      100,000 people in the Agriculture Department! What the hell for? Over 2 million government employees now, why? Let’s extend unemployment to 10 years, that’s the ticket for Economic Stimulus right Pelosi? All of a sudden there are all of these federal employees making over 6 figures, paid for by people who average half of that amount, why? Nothing makes sense anymore.

      Report Post »  
    • Dustyluv
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 5:04am

      Liberals will never understand. IT IS MY MONEY NOT YOURS!

      You want to give away money, give away your own damn money. Leave mine alone!

      Report Post »  
    • always watching
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 5:37am

      So “rich people” only spend .40 for every dollar they get to keep. If they “give” that same dollar to the government, I’ll bet my last dollar that less than .40 cents will make it back into the economy.

      Report Post »  
    • Polwatcher
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 6:09am

      If the feds tax the highest earners more, the highest earners will spend a lot of time to reduce their tax burden. The net result will mean that the feds will get less tax than expected, it will drive more business out of the country, and the main burden of this tax will be paid by the lowest earners of the highest tax bracket (small business owners) resulting in much higher unemployment.

      Only the worst fools could conceive of such a bad idea, but then, isn’t what we have in Congress and Presidency right now?

      Report Post »  
    • Rev. WC
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 6:54am

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUoRYkpLarA

      Report Post » Rev. WC  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:38am

      Sorry NEOCONS but the people with income over 1 million don’t need the Tax cut
      and neither do industries that move or operate overseas.

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
    • realindependent
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 7:47am

      so cut all the thing in the us that help people like ss, medicare and medicade education and health care for all which again the CBO says will cut 400 billion over tens years and adds 40 million people to buy health care from private insurance companies. i.e. capitalism. and no defence cuts? we spend 1/3rd of our money on defense people. we need troops in Germany? Japan? really. tell ya what we can cut some social services. if you guys bring all the troops home and leave the sand boxes of the middle east. and spend some of that money on America. Im sick of the money spent in other countries. Spend it here. Put Americans too work for a decent pay check so we can our household bills with one paycheck. and be home too properly raise our kids. we have problems with the youth today cause most households need 2 fulltime paychecks to pay our bills. While billionaire hedge fund babies and corporate fat cats run our oconomy into the ground and in the tank Dems and Repubs bail em out. Lets build America to that beacon on the hill you guys spout on about everyday. Lets build new roads and bridges. Lets make things the rest of the world wants. Lets tax multinational companies that feld this country for cheaper labour only too send that crap back here and sell it too us. without paying fair share tax burdens. Lets end tax shelters and loop holes for coporate America. You build it here we reward you. you build it in india or japan we tax your but all day long and twice on Sunday. Dont let them tell you its free markets. You want a strong America? build it here and sell it around the world…. Thats America at her finest.

      Report Post » realindependent  
    • tower7femacamp
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:12am

      realindependent, I agree with you.
      I would also de-criminalize possession of drugs. we pay over 30k a yr
      to keep these people in prison ? So everytime the Private Prison
      Systems lobby congress they make something else a crime.Now bill S 510
      is working on making Gardening or raising your own food a crime.
      Probably to steal farm land for China while we get sent to a Camp or prison.

      Report Post » tower7femacamp  
    • Rev. WC
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:32am

      Let us tax the 50% who pay zero taxes yet utilize public services. The only true tax is consumption tax. How about the 12,000,000,000 illegals who are utlizing the public services that pay no taxes and no health care. Let us make everyone accountable.

      Report Post » Rev. WC  
    • Marcobob69
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 8:35am

      With “Quantatative Easing”, inflation will eventually turn in to hyper-inflation making all of this a moot point. STOP THE DAMN PRESSES, BERNANKE! WE DON’T NEED THE DOLLAR DEVALUED! I CALL ON THE NEW REPUBLICAN HOUSE TO AUDIT THE FED, TOP PRIORITY!!!

      Report Post »  
    • tobywil2
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 10:20am

      INFLATION – STEALTH TAXATION:

      The tyrants (Wannabe Peers) would have you believe that taxes are only increased when the legislature increases taxes. These tyrants use the confusion over the relationship between wealth and the medium of exchange (money) to perpetuate this myth. Actually, the tax on the economy rises whenever the government s increases spending. Tax laws just determine how the liability is distributed. If the taxes fail to cover expenses, the value of the dollar decreases and anyone who owns money pays the tax in the form of loss of purchasing power. Money, (paper money) has no intrinsic value. The dollar’s value is determined by the quantity of wealth the market is willing to exchange for the dollar. The dollar’s value eventually will be determined by the nation’s wealth divided by the dollars and credit in circulation.

      Inflation is not a recent phenomenon. During the 19th Century the inflation rate in the United States was 12% for the entire Century. In 1800, $0.89 had the purchasing power of $1.00 in 1900, a change of about 12% in 100 years. From 1900 to 2007 the inflation rate was about 25 to 1, a change of 2500% in 107 years. A Google search lists over 20 pages of “inflation calculators” three of the most popular inflation calculators list the inflation rate of between 24.6 and27.71 from 1900 and 2007. In other words, $1.00 in 1900 was worth around $25.00 in 2007.

      What happened? In the late 1800’s and early 1900’s four factors emerged that caused inflation to increase. These are:
      • Creation of the “Fourth Branch of Government” the Bureaucracy
      • Enacting and enforcing the Sherman Antitrust Act.
      • Creation of the Federal Reserve
      • Enacting the income tax
      • Wars

      How did these factors cause such erosion in the value of the dollar? Chapter 9 of “21st Century Common Sense” explains in simple terms how these factors produced inflation of the dollar and aided the “Wannabe Peers” in usurping our freedom. The book “Money Mischief” by Milton Friedman provides a complete history of inflation, the causes and the consequences for those who require more proof. http://commonsense21c.com/

      Report Post » tobywil2  
    • Cemoto78
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 10:31am

      Stop the out of control spending, quite with the class warfare, get rid of the current tax system with it’s crazy loopholes, and enact a fair tax where EVERYONE, pays their fair share.

      Report Post » Cemoto78  
    • Nvrforget
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 11:02am

      Everyone here who says that higher corporate profits cause more job creation is wrong.

      Companies have made record profits this quarter. Read that again. They have literally made more money than ever before on record.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/business/economy/24econ.html

      So where are the jobs?

      Report Post »  
    • eddvoss
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 11:11am

      I love the whole rich people don’t spend as much of their money line of thinking. Rich people also don’t squirrel their money away in their mattress of bury it in the back yard. They invest it and put it into banks that help it grow, which creates capitol for making loans, creating jobs, etc. etc. etc.

      Report Post » eddvoss  
    • silentwatcher
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 11:38am

      While I favor Obama’s proposal, at least for now, cutting the deficit should not be restricted to a tax law. Currently, the U.S. government is FAT, FAT, FAT. Our agencies are top heavy, overpaid, and seriously need to be culled. Too many politicians exist, with each having a heavy concentration of staff. Spending is unrestricted, with many programs funded favoring campaign donors. Outlaw pork spending, be fiscally RESPONSIBLE when passing programs, and punish ALL government workers with financial penalties and jail when they break the law.

      Finally, minimize imports (temporarily) and stop exporting jobs/services. Our dollars will be worth more amongst ourselves if kept in the United States until our economy stabilizes. UNTIL OUR ECONOMY STABILIZES (this is one that will hurt our money gubbing politicians.)

      Of course, nothing short of a 50 percent tax rate on will fix our economic crisis. But then, in my household, spending is reduced if I don’t have the funds to back my interests. I live within my means.

      Report Post »  
    • silentwatcher
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 12:12pm

      and my money is not worth as much overseas as it is in the U.S. So I stay in my country and forego any overseas shopping trips. Minimizing imports just may prompt a re-emergence of manufacturing within our own borders, getting America back to a highly productive country. It will all come back.

      Report Post »  
    • 101
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 12:30pm

      I wasn’t going to comment due to this lame duck congress is going to do whatever they want “not in our best interest” I’m sure!

      Small business/ companies that are so called “rich”? Will have to lay off employees and eventually will close. The larger Corporations will move over seas!

      Why don’t the people get it? Companies have operating cost and if they don’t keep a bank roll for the unexpected slow times to pay salaries, leases, new equipment and or repairs etc, etc, they fail. If you don’t have the money to compete on the global market yes, I said “global market” because we’re already competing on the global market. To keep businesses in America you need to keep cost down…We all lose in this game if they do not renew, I mean if Obama raises taxes on the so called “rich” !

      Most small business are already taxed at 40% then they spend another 40% of their net earnings, do the math, so a frugal business owner reaps a 20% profit…wow he must be “rich” what a joke!

      Report Post »  
    • Promotefreedom
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:37pm

      @A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right: Exactly. All this debate on tax rates is pointless. They are going to continue to spend us into oblivion. You watch, next will be an emergency trillion dollar bailout of numerous states (pensions). It will be our government to the rescue: Bailout will be justified as the only way to stop the violence.

      Report Post »  
    • A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
      Posted on November 28, 2010 at 1:39pm

      @REALINDEPENDENT

      “so cut all the thing in the us that help people like ss, medicare and medicade education and health care for all which again the CBO says will cut 400 billion over tens years and adds 40 million people to buy health care from private insurance companies. i.e. capitalism. and no defence cuts?”

      You’re missing the fact that SS, Medicare, public education, and Obamacare, all of that is funded by someone else’s money – these programs aren’t supposed to exist. It’s like saying “We have this program here whereby we go out and raid peoples’ homes and then give it to the less fortunate” – sure, it helps some people, but the program isn’t supposed to exist, and were it not for the threat of imprisonment or worse, nobody would allow anyone to do this. You say, “Nobody’s raiding homes”; that’s true, but they are raiding my pocketbook. My pocketbook belongs to me, as well as my home, and nobody may rightully raid either.

      We do not own the money we have gotten from these programs, and those who are not directly benefiting from it do not – SHOULD NOT – want to pay into it; If you are not directly benefiting from your tax dollars, then the government is stealing it; If the government passes Obamacare over the will of 60% of America, then that is tyranny – Government derives its just powers from the consent of the governed.

      And for those who think that the government can “tax” for the purpose of redistributing wealth as long as it is a popular tax, consider that part of the Declaration of Independence recounts the attempt of the Colonists to appeal to their fellow countrymen for justice against the overreach of the King’s authority. So, even with the popular support (apathy?) of their countrymen, the Colonists concluded that popular laws were unjust.

      And since the redistribution of wealth is theft, these “taxes” to fund these government programs are also unConstitutional.

      Further, all of these programs are unnecessary. A suffering People, left free to take care of themselves, will seek to survive – this is how all sorts of innovations in America happen.

      And remember that unalienable rights are just that – regardless of any laws which suggest otherwise. In other words, a law which has popular support, but which violates even one person’s unalienable rights, it is unconstitutional and has no legitimate obligatory force.

      “we spend 1/3rd of our money on defense people. we need troops in Germany? Japan? really. tell ya what we can cut some social services. if you guys bring all the troops home and leave the sand boxes of the middle east. and spend some of that money on America.”

      That’s a fair point about defense spending, but remember that defense spending is Constitutional, Welfare programs are not.

      (“promote the general welfare” does not refer to welfare programs, but rather is deliberately worded to avoid such a conclusion. The primary meaning of the word “welfare” means well-being – that’t it. And it’s this general sense of the word that is being used by our Founders.

      Consider these occurences of “welfare” in the Federalist Papers. I haven’t read any of them, but the immediate context of the excerpts below reveals the meaning.

      Federalist Papers, #41 (aka, the Federalist Paper Michael Moor doesn’t want you to see) – “general welfare”:
      “Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,” amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it; though it would have been difficult to find a reason for so awkward a form of describing an authority to legislate in all possible cases.”

      Federalist Papers, #46 – “collective welfare”:
      “Every one knows that a great proportion of the errors committed by the State legislatures proceeds from the disposition of the members to sacrifice the comprehensive and permanent interest of the State, to the particular and separate views of the counties or districts in which they reside. And if they do not sufficiently enlarge their policy to embrace the collective welfare of their particular State, how can it be imagined that they will make the aggregate prosperity of the Union, and the dignity and respectability of its government, the objects of their affections and consultations?”

      Federalist Papers, #61 – “public welfare”:
      ” I allude to the circumstance of uniformity in the time of elections for the federal House of Representatives. It is more than possible that this uniformity may be found by experience to be of great importance to the public welfare, both as a security against the perpetuation of the same spirit in the body, and as a cure for the diseases of faction.”

      “Im sick of the money spent in other countries. Spend it here. Put Americans too work for a decent pay check so we can our household bills with one paycheck. and be home too properly raise our kids. we have problems with the youth today cause most households need 2 fulltime paychecks to pay our bills. While billionaire hedge fund babies and corporate fat cats run our oconomy into the ground and in the tank Dems and Repubs bail em out.”

      Government regulations are responsible for businesses relocating to other countries – they are either more free to work there, or it costs less. When businesses start to get treated like their money is their money, then they will spend according to how they view the wants and needs of the markets, and how that will best suit them, personally – that’s an economy, that’s how it works.

      Also, you misunderstand the role that spending plays in the growth of the economy. Spending is the result of having something to spend, for one; And if you just spend money, then all you’re doing is moving wealth around – except wealth eventually gets consumed when it is used to buy food.

      The only way an economy actually GROWS, is when the private sector CREATES wealth. Do you notice how, in your view, it is assumed that wealth does not get created? Because if wealth creation was part of your economic paradigm, then it would become immediately obvious that it is all types of overhead that stunts the growth of an economy – the government being the most oppressive kind of overhead. Population growth is not responsible for shrinking economies, low taxes are not responsible for shrinking economies – SPENDING is responsible for shrinking economies, which is why central planning always ends up badly.

      “Lets build America to that beacon on the hill you guys spout on about everyday.”

      If America was dirt poor, yet had the government out of the way, like the Constitution says it should be, IT WOULD BE that beacon on the hill simply because the sky would be the limit. Right now, though, the Obama Administration, like the Bush Administration, is overstepping its authority, and so the economy is suffering, and without our freedoms, we cannot be that beacon on the hill.

      “Lets build new roads and bridges.”

      Again, central planning takes people’s rights, and stunts the economy. If we didn’t have Federally funded roads, we would stil have State funded roads, privately paved roads, or dirt roads. We can still get around without Federally funded roads and bridges.

      “Lets make things the rest of the world wants.”

      It’s fine if the rest of the world wants something an individual company makes, but we have our own economy that we’re responsible for, and so the rest of the world’s wants and needs out not be our concern as a country. If you want to sell something overseas, go ahead; but forcing commerce between countries is a violation of our unalienable right to liberty.

      “Lets tax multinational companies that feld this country for cheaper labour only too send that crap back here and sell it too us. without paying fair share tax burdens. Lets end tax shelters and loop holes for coporate America. You build it here we reward you. you build it in india or japan we tax your but all day long and twice on Sunday. Dont let them tell you its free markets. You want a strong America? build it here and sell it around the world…. Thats America at her finest.”

      Get government out of the way, and businesses will return to this country for the same reasy they fled. Wealth created overseas is rightfully not taxed the same as that created in America – there’s nothing wrong with that.

      Let’s definitely end tax shelters, but for everyone; and let’s have a flat tax, so that everyone is taxed in the same way. And let’s get rid of the minimum wage, because money itself is worthless, it’s fiat money – a Big Mac can cost $2 as easily as it can cost a penny.

      “Rewarding” those who build here would happen without government influence, so long as we are free to innovate without the government looking over our shoulders.

      Taxing goods built outside of the US will bring in money, but it will stifle innovation, and will effectively economically isolate us, which has been a problem for countries like Japan in the past (then they did it the American way, and they did it better than us, and they became prosperous).

      Report Post »  
    • Compete or Lose
      Posted on November 29, 2010 at 5:29pm

      .
      .
      .
      ALL or NOTHING

      Lets raise everyones taxes and let people really understand the cost of government spending levels–

      RAISE EM ALL!!

      Report Post »  
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