How Did This Border Patrol Agent’s Gun Snap in Half?
- Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:07pm by
Liz Klimas
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There is a case to be made for traditional metal weapons over newer, polymer technology.
Example A is provided by The Loadout Room, a subset of SOFREP.com (the special operations forces report). It reports the following photos come from a border patrol agent who fell off his ATV while training. The short visit to the hospital by the agent wasn’t the only collateral damage of the fall, though. His P2000 handgun snapped at the handle.
(Photo via The Loadout Room)
(Photo via The Loadout Room)
(Photo via The Loadout Room)
“It is believed that his CBS, given the location behind the gun, may have created the torque necessary for this result,” an anonymous field training officer said according to The Loadout Room report.
The most important lesson here, according to the Loadout Room, is that “there’s a value in all metal guns that take a licking and keep on ticking.”
“There’s a reason the AK-47 is so prevalent in every crappy corner of the planet, it just keeps on working under the harshest of environments,” Brandon Webb writes in the post.
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Comments (185)
SUNBURST
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:10pmThat’s not a S& W M&P?
Report Post »Damocles
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:18pmNope, H&K. The M&P has different serrations on the slide.
Report Post »Wolfgang the Gray
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:40pmWhat is to say that had he had a full metal gun, the grip area would not have bent, therefore preventing the magazine from feeding rounds? I’ve fallen off my trail bike twice and tore myself all up, but my Taurus polymer has stayed undamaged.
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:46pmHK45 Pistol, Caliber .45 ACP
Report Post »The-Monk
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:43pmWell, at least he had real bullets and not beanbag bullets like Brian Terry.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 8:46pmTheres nothing wrong with this Agent’s weapon.
A little Duct-Tape, it will be as good as New…………..:)
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 9:01pmAtleast it’s just his gun
Report Post »cgnick
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 9:05pmThat is a .40 cal. Standard issue for BP and DHS. He may have been more severely injured had the gun not broken. Something had to give and it is better the pistol frame than a hip or rib.
Report Post »its_time_to_arrest_our_government
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 2:05amdont buy that plastic junk you dont want to leave it in the sun ether. it was junk before now its two pieces of junk. buy a colt 1911, 101 years of tried and true American craftsmanship takes a licking and is still kicking butt today.
Report Post »rulken
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 9:02amThe Colt 1911 is still one of the finest hand guns in the world bar non! Accurate and enough stopping power to stop a water buffalo !
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 11:17amFor sure not the S&W …….. I have two …….. very different.
Report Post »Augustus McCrae
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 2:14pmBuy what you can afford for now. If you make through the first round there will be plenty, of high dollar weapons laying around. body armor, night vision, etc…… call it manna if you will, but you have to get over the first hurdle.
Report Post »BrianPat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:10pmBrandon Webb doesn‘t know what he’s talking about concerning the 7.62 AK47. The reason that gun is everywhere is because millions were given away by Russia years ago. It‘s also easier to take care of because it’s loosely built and has a gas piston system compared to a 5.56 AR which is tight and uses a direct gas injection system, but is much more accurate !
Report Post »PoliticalSmackdown {Subscribe & Friend me on YouTube}
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:34pmthe reason the ak is so reliable is due to it’s slop.
Report Post »jman-6
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:50pmSay what u want the AK will work anytime anywhere just ask any Vietnam Vet about how theres worked in the jungle if it got dirty and/or wet.
Report Post »Bill Rowland
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:12pmAK can be made cheaper and faster than M16 varients. Carried onbe in VN from time to time and own one now. Not as accurate but its not intended to be a sniper rifle. Soldiers now days are taught to spray rounds down range rather than engage individual targets. I trained on a M1 Garand and the AK serves my purposes just fine.
7.62×39
OMG Nov 6, 2012
Report Post »Beltfed762
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 7:08pm“Brandon Webb doesn‘t know what he’s talking about concerning the 7.62 AK47.”Say what? You might want to do a little research about Brandon Webb (and the AK platform) before you make another silly comment like that, Brianpat. I’m certain that Brandon, like all Navy SEAL operators, knows his weapons quite well.
Report Post »MY WASR10 SAYS IM FREE
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 8:57pmBrian,
With respect to reliability and performance in extreme conditions, the AK47 will kick the M16′s ass 7 days from Sunday. The M16 is overcomplicated, requires more maintenece in harsher conditions, and to top things off shoots a sissy VARMINT round. These are spray & pray weapons. If you want accuracy…….get a Reminton 700.
Report Post »Stratosaurus
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 9:07pmAnd a lot of guys my age never came back from Nam because the ultra-precise M-16s we had then would jam after a sneeze. McNamara’s bean-counters figured they could save $0.15 per weapon if they didn’t have the bores chromed, and used cheaper powder in the rounds, which fouled those bores much faster. And to top it all off, a cleaning kit and disassembly instructions weren’t even available until after a couple hundred weapons had jammed, resulting in deaths and serious injury.
SEALs used to dump their -16s for AKs as soon as they could, because the -47s were a lot less affected by weather and environment.
Report Post »Steelheadisadouche
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 10:00pmWasr10
Report Post »Dude, argue Ford vs Chevy on a site without vets. Rem 700 needs lots of help out of the box, VZ 58 would spank most Chicom crap Ak’s all day, and we forgot the whole pistola arguement. 1911 vs plastic crap? What works is what you’re used to and in your hand.
apollo18
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 7:56am@brianpat
“Doesn‘t know what he’s talking about”…. Seriously? Whether or not the AK was designed to function in the worst of conditions, it has for over 50 years. No maintenance, no cleaning, stamped out of sheet metal so the “operator” can just SMASH it back into working order. “Spray & pray” (communists et al are mandatory atheists, correct?) is the de facto training method.
Report Post »The AR on the other hand, is a precision firearm, needing routine care, profound investment in time, treasure and training. Very few “legally purchased” AR’s are used by their legal owners for “malevolent endeavors”. ( the Aurora, CO theater the rare exception).
Why are you so far away from Webb’s point? “We” got it.
00100111
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:07pmI thought the border patrol was issued Sig P229?
Report Post »lawrench
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:29pmI thought the Border Patrol was not allowed to carry lethal weapons? I thought they were supposed to only carry non-lethal weapons so the more illegal aliens can live to sue the U.S. Government and get government benefits so the Democrats can be elected forever.
Report Post »georgepatton
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:47pmThey were!
Report Post »banjarmon
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:21pm@ lawrench
Agents are to RUN and HIDE and THROW things if confronted!!! To HECK with SHOOTING!!! He MADE SOMETHING TO THROW…YEEEHAW!!!
Report Post »apollo18
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 8:04am“Combat troops don’t pass inspection.
Inspection troops don’t pass combat”
- Murphy
Political correctness: gospel of the godless. (and “useless”, deadly?)
Report Post »killdozerd11
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:03pmSpring Field Armory…. The finest in AMERICAN made firearms
Report Post »BrianPat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:11pmIt’s not american made, this company only licenses the Springfield name and imports the XD‘s and XDm’s from Croatia. I have a 9mm XDM, it says Made in Croatia right on it. The Sig is american made
Report Post »CaptGreg
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:17pmSpringfield XD is made in Croatia.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:23pmSpringfield 1911 GI Classics are made in Brazil. I still have the ‘Made In Brazil’ tag from one.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:28pmBrianPat, My first SIG is stamped Made In West Germany.
Report Post »AnOregonian
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:34pmKimber 1911 FTW
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:36pmANOREGONIAN
“Kimber 1911 FTW”
Indeed…
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:43pmI think this is still an Isolated incident. It‘s one of those things you can’t plan for as a designer. It’s all on personal preference. Do you want a polymer gun that is lighter and maybe easier to maintain, or a more durable metal framed firearm? Trade offs, each has their own…
Report Post »Steelheadisadouche
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 11:11pmRJJ
Report Post »Those are the Sigs to have; much tighter than what is coming out now… get those hi-cap Mecgar mags for em while you can. Sig is a sig, but the German ones are the best. And to really test “the jerk”, most of the Israeli’s I have known preferred the Sig to the baby eagles any day.
FaithfulFriend
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:46pmGood thing our border patrol agents carry on each hip so at least his other pistol was in good working order.
Report Post »PALEHORSE
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:07pmCan only carry one side arm
Report Post »LuvsYeshua
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:24pmI know it’s really bad@ss to be seen with a really cool pistol on your hip or attached to your chest-rig, but a pistol is worthless in that terrain––and most terrains for that matter. Like any infantryman, a pistol is a purely defensive, last resort weapon. That’s why medics, officers, and 240B gunners carry them. They should be carrying M4′s, M14‘s or M24’s. A sidearm is merely an afterthought.
Report Post »termyt
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:46pmWhat does an AK-47 have to do with anything here?
And, for the record – the number one reason AK-47′s are in every corner of the world is all you had to say is, “I am moderately disagreeable with the US position on ” and the USSR would hand you a few dozen. That they are reliable is just a bonus.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:57pm@ Termyt
Yes, the Soviets used to give out the AK by the carload. The reason why those AKs are _STILL_ in use, twenty years after the fall of the USSR, is because they are extremely reliable and hardworking weapons. You don’t scrap out a truck that still works well a decade after it was manufactured, why would you do the same with a firearm?
Report Post »ManThong
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:04pm1) AK’s – dirt cheap to stamp out by the boatload, inherently reliable because of loose tolerances., devastating because of .308 power and idiot proof for sloppy inaccurate shooters.
Report Post »2) I am confident none of my Glocks would break like that, but my primary would still be a 1911.
Elena2010
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:08pmMilitary friends of mine say you can drag the AK thru the mud and it still fires reliably. Can’t do THAT w/an M-16! The least bit of dirt on the Colt will cause it to jam.
Report Post »dugsok
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:08pmif you have to ask???
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:09pmThe Russians are the Best at making Crap that actually works, alike the AK47. Our Crap… does not work!
Report Post »kfgk14
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:29pm@elena2010, my AR doesn’t jam when muddy. It jams when it isn’t lubricated, but my Arsenal AK does the same thing. My Arsenal, actually, has jammed on me more than my AR (usually related to how damn sloppy the mag tolerances are, slop isn’t always good, if I use bulgarian mags I’m usually fine though).
Report Post »As for this busted P2000…stuff breaks. It breaks more when its in a holster made by Blackhawk. I still don‘t understand why these are allowed by PD’s/military, high chance of ND and they do this, and the one I used to have would get grime in the latch mechanism, locking my gun into the holster. Sounds like a dumb way to die, if I ever needed the gun and had been in, say, some dirt/mud, I’d be screwed.
Regarding all-steel weapons, we are of course talking about the 1911. Great gun, no doubt…they just require tuning to get right, they’re heavy and hold very few rounds for the weight, and they have far tighter tolerances than a Glock/Sig/S&W/H&K. IMHO, we ought to issue Glocks. You can have the .45 ACP if you like, get the G21. But I don’t understand the fascination with the 1911, when it is such a drag for a cop/soldier to carry a gun that’s more than 3 lbs loaded and gives you 7 to 10 rounds (even with an extended magazine), and requires intensive care to keep operational. If you have the time to maintain it, great, and I do love the 1911, but for the weight my G34 wins. More rounds, lighter, low-maintenance, etc. Not trying to start a fight, just making a point,
eagle2715
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:36pm“the number one reason AK-47′s are in every corner of the world is all you had to say is”
Depends on the location and era. Afghans (and all the different miscreants within) weren’t given most of their AKs by Russia…..The biggest reasons for the AKs proliferation today, especially in the middle east, is how cheap they are, how easy it is to train someone how to maintain them, and how prolific the ammo they shoot is. It has nothing to do with Russia…
“Military friends of mine say you can drag the AK thru the mud and it still fires reliably. Can’t do THAT w/an M-16! The least bit of dirt on the Colt will cause it to jam.”
That’s only part of the story though. It’s a trade off. In order to have a gun that can continue shoot while full of dirt is to have the components fit loosely together. This means it isn’t very accurate at medium to long range. Any M-16 (undamaged) can effectively engage a person at 500yards. A great shooting AK (as each gun varies wildly in out accurate they are) is lucky to hit a person at 400yards. Most AKs, your looking at 250 to 300…
Report Post »single stack
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:44pmmanthong,
Report Post »The 7.62×39 isn’t even close to .308 (7.62×51NATO) in power. Ballistically it’s on a par with the .30-30, but slightly less powerful.
7.62×51…150-168 gr bullet @ 2550-2750fps.
7.62×39…124 gr bullet @ 2300fps
.30-30…..150-170 gr bullet @ 1900-2200 fps
ManThong
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:56pmStack.. My bad.. never had a .308.. I have a WASR for S&G.’s.
..learn something every day.
My old SP1 AR-15 carbine is my favorite little rifle.
Report Post »thejackal
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 8:13pmFools the USSR never “gave” any weapon to anyone. Are you mad? The Russians are the worlds largest arms dealers bar none. The US may have larger receipts for their high end systems F-16 / 18 varients and tank and missile defense systems however, Russia sells bulk small arms to every third world hell-hole on the planet, including old tanks, helicopters, amoured personal carriers, submarines ect. they sell more bulk surplus then anyone. And by the way I have an old AK varient and a newer AR M4 style rifle, if I had to survive with one on the run somewhere, I’d definetly take the AK it is totally resilient.
Report Post »rulken
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 8:58amYou forgetting the AR-14, extremely accurate and never jammed on me, I qualified sharpshooter first time out with it. Maybe a little heave, but worth the haul in any fire-fight!
Report Post »SigSauer
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:37pmThey should be issued Sig Sauer. Sig Sauer guns are made in Exeter, NH, USA. I would suggest the P226 Tactical Ops. twenty round magazines in either 9 or 40 mm. Sig Sauer also make a wonder 1911 45 acp.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:56pmMy son and I both have been drooling over their M1911A1. Bought my first P226 in Germany from one of our Rod & Gun clubs, Dec 1985. You can knock the wings off a gnat with it. In fact it still shoots a lot better than my U.S. manufactured version.
Report Post »Eaglesnest
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 9:29pmI have carried a Sig Sauer P226 in the field when working for over 12 years now, it is a workhorse. Night sights, 15 round clips, with 3 extra on my belt. It is a little big and clunky compared to the Glock and other polymer weapons, but it has never failed me and would never break like this one in the article. It is a fine weapon indeed and pretty expensive.
Report Post »ANTIPATHIZER308WIN
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:36pmIf it was an alloy framed gun it would have probably failed also. Steel? Who knows? Maybe it was a good thing like a car with a crumple zone. If it hadn’t snapped that energy may have transmitted to the officers hip and broke it. It could happen. I’ll stick with my M&P. Half the price and just as reliable.
Report Post »Lt_Scrounge
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 11:58pmI have had Glocks, Sigs, 1911s from multiple manufacturers and my pistol of the moment is a CZ-75B. Heavy as hell, but works first time, every time. It also fits my hand a lot better than my Sig did. The grip profile is almost identical to the one that Sig adopted for the new enhanced ergonomics models. As for a carbine, I’d go for an FN FAL if possible. Barring that, a gas piston AR would be a lot more accurate than an AK, but barring that AR being gas piston driven, I’ll take the AK. It might not be as accurate as an AK, but it will be a lot more reliable.
Report Post »WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 1:40amThe guy is lucky it did not go off when it broke.
Report Post »THX-1138
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:33pmWhat’s a CBS?
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:02pmStumped me too, but I did find a TA1040-CBS radio holster. Still, not sure if its that or a typo.
Report Post »PALEHORSE
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:07pmShould be CSB (collapsible steel baton)
Report Post »JimDPhoto
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:22pmCollapsible Butt Stock
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:29pmPALEHORSE, Makes far more sense. Mine is an Asp, and that is all that I have ever called it.
Report Post »SigSauer
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:31pmThey should be issued Sig Sauer P226 Tactical Ops. Sig Sauer are made in Exeter, NH, USA and they are one of the finest guns made.
Report Post »bbabics
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:39pmYou’re not kidding. I shot a 9mm (I know, I know) recently, and it was awesome. Definitely on the list to purchase the .45 someday.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:10pmI rather like my Walther P99. Lightweight, easy to clean, accurate, but made in Germany (imported by S&W who makes a poor copy of the P99 under their own name plate).
Report Post »TJexcite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:29pmIn places around the world they are still using the same AK-47 that their grandfathers used to fight in 1972. loaded with Soviet made bullets, circa 1982.
Report Post »RightUnite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:39pmProbably China.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:54pmSub-Saharan Africa still has a lot of the classic AK-47s fighting alongside the modernized AKM units and the AK-74.
Report Post »LeadNotFollow
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:27pm…
Report Post »Was it made in China or Mexico?
CaptGreg
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:35pmGermany. Suggested retail price – $941.00.
Report Post »Countrygirl1362
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:41pmThey need to get their money back, if it breaks like that it is not worth 2 cents.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:26pmThat’s what you get when you buy HK. (I have a rifle, so insert hypocrite comment.)
If you really want to make sure the sidearm is there when you need it and that it will function, Colt 1911.
Report Post »M1A2_Tanker
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:06pm100 years and counting, The John M. Browning design is a wonderful Machine, BUT anyone who knows their 1911′s also knows that they are not off the shelf Firearms most need to be tuned right out of the box they are also very ammo picky. The average Border Agent or Patrol Officer is not trained to handle such a weapon. Should they receive the training is not the point. The point is that the gun must work every time regardless of who is issued it right from the start. We are talking people whose Gun experience runs from only job related to people who are very well trained and knowledgeable. It must work for even the most novice. The 1911 is not a novice gun and most firearms experts and trainers will tell you they won’t consider a 1911 reliable until after a minimum of 2000 rounds fired without any failure to fire/extract/load/double feeds/short strokes ETC. There are quite a few platforms in use that have proven years and years of reliable service which are much better choices for the average LEO. S&W 6000 series Pistols, M9/ Beretta 92FS as a few examples, Parts do not need to be fitted to each gun and they have a great record. As for me I will not let one isolated example stop me from carrying the “Plastic Fantastic”. Anecdotal evidence at most!
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:34pmM1A2_Tanker, Actually, it first came out in 1904. After a number of teething problems were fixed the military adopted it in 1911.
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:41pmIM1A2_TANKER
I have 3 1911s Colt, Kimber, and S & W and I have no idea what your talking about….
And I have thousands of rounds through all of them….
Report Post »Wesley
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:41pmI’m sticking with the 1911, I’ve had several if you want a pistol that always works a 1911a1 just the way they were delivered to the US armed forces (loose& reliable)and plain .45 ACP hard ball ammo will always work, if that’s not available grab a .45 Glock, Glock dose polymer right. Newer 1911s are wonderful but just as M1A2_Tanker says some of them need braking-in and or tweaking.
Report Post »JohnHW
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 10:31pmWhen I was in the Third Naval District Pistol Team in the mid-60s, we fired original 1911A1 (with military issued bullets). The barrels were so loose that you could hear them moving when you carried it. I brought 2 on the suplus market and had them “fixed.” Before I left NYC, I was averaging 24 out of 25 at 75 ft. In Nam, as a river patrol skipper, I carried one after going through all the 1911s in the armory until I had a tight weapon. I never drew it unless I had a target closer than 50 ft (let the gunners take the ones further away). Downed 4 – 1 bullet each (although I always sent another one a little lower down range). Here at home, I took out a man who came into my office to rob it and decided to take the young female clerk with him. He made the mistake of making the girl open the door and exposed himself. The other time, an armed convicted rapist broke into my home and when he got to the hallway, I turned on the hall light, saw his pistol and fired (I have 3 daughters). I have never not been able to fired either of those 1911s when I needed to. According to the “experts” both were made prior to WWII. BTW: I first shot a 1911 when I was 12 and carried it when hunting in what we called Dark Hollow. Got a wild boar at 14 with it (my .22 rifle was for squirrels)
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:26pmI’ll take a S&W Model 10 HB Revolver, over one of these New Space Age Plastics any day of the week…………
Report Post »raderby
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:24pmuse a 1911.
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:23pmUnless it happens with some frequency…ie: M16A1 jamming, then it’s just one of those “What the Hell!!?? moments.
For the most part metal/polymer guns have a good record of durability and servicability. They are also much lighter.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:52pm@Ranger
The Military has had almost the exact same problems with the M-16, ever since it was issued in 1965.
The only differences from 1965, is when the M-16 was First issued they told all the Soldiers and Marines, that the M-16 was self-cleaning and the military did not issue cleaning kit.
The second problem was Ammo, they used Ball-Powder in the 223 rounds, and if you left a round in the chamber, the Ball-Powder would swell, especially in High Humidity, like Vietnam, and you had to literally, pound the round out of the chamber, too extract it.
The M-16 has been the worst Weapon the Military has ever had, no matter what variation……….
Report Post »M1A2_Tanker
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:24pmBryanB,
You seem to know your M16 History yet you failed to report that all those issued were fixed, Are there more reliable weapons out there? Sure there is only one we can point to, The AK. No other system out there has been run in the quantity, length of service and conditions that the M16/AR-15 platform has to be able to compare it too. The U.S. will never use the AK end of story. There is the FAL and a few others but they are all Battle Rifles not Assault rifles that would be an apples to oranges comparison. The M16/AR-15 platform has well proven that it is a reliable and very viable firearm. Continuing to spread Vietnam era stories as if they were not addressed is just plain dishonest. The M16 is by no means a perfect Firearm it is a machine like all machines it has its hiccups, like all machines you cannot abuse it and continue to blame the Gun for any issues that arise. To say “The M-16 has been the worst Weapon the Military has ever had, no matter what variation……….” Is Dishonest and/or a Highly subjective Opinion. Do not try and pass it off as Truth.
Report Post »GUNMAN
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:24pm@BRYANB, you also left out the fact that McNAMARA stopped them from having chromed bores and chambers which was a great part of the reason they jammed so much.
Mcnamara was a bean counter from Ford, not a weapons expert. He should have consulted someone who knew weapons. Also, the head of Ord. was trying to stop the M16 because he felt the round was too small. He wanted to stick with the .30 cal. cartridge.
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:36pmTanker thanks for be upfront with the information you provided. In my over 33 years of service I have heard the torrid stories about the M16 from Vietnam. Yes there were issues with the first generation but those problems have mostly been solved.
Our M-4 is better made with tighter tolerances and better materials. Like any weapon, keep it clean and lubricated and it will work. My brother, cousin and my son have carried the M16, M-16A, M16A1 and M-4 and we are alive to give testament to the operability of the weapon platform.
To Vietnam vets; I sure wish you had our weapons back in the day! Welcome Home!
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 5:47pmI‘m glad I’m not the only on here defending the modern M-16 & M-4
Cheers M1A2_TANKER
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:10pmLet’s not forget that all of those supposedly “better” wood and steel battle rifles weighed alot more.
Which doesn’t mean jack when you drive to a range, or out in the country to plink targets.
But that weight has a whole new meaning when you’re humping it, and a ruck, and a big load of ammo 20km’s a day for a week or two.
…and I’m not saying that the M-4 is God’s gift to firearms either. But it is a damn good weapon that has steadily improved as the years have gone by.
IMO one of the real negatives of the M-4 is less in the gun and more in the round itself. It’s just too damn small. The 5.56 round has a tendancy to punch through targets leaving the enemy still capable. The new 12 to 1 barrel twist has made the round much more accurate and stable, but less likely to cause wounding due to hydrostatic bounce. We saw that rather frequently in a certain market district in Somolia.
But having said that, there’s no free lunch. If you go with a bigger round, then it’s more weight and you carry less.
I’m looking forward to the day they issue the M41 Pulse Rifle. *grin*
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 8:25pm@M1A2_Tanker
Them M-16 is a piece of crap……It always has been.
This is why the are so many variations of the M-16..
For every one problem that is fixed there are 10 others that are never addressed.
The M-16 is very accurate Rifle, but it was never really suited for Combat Conditions.
Some of the problems that have never been fixed since 1965
Frequent Jamming
Easily damaged in combat conditions
Susceptible to environmental conditions, cold weather, hot weather, even high altitudes can effect weapon operations. I have found by adding a few drops of gasoline to lubricant, can help to prevent jamming in high altitudes and cold weather.
No enough knock-down power
I figure when the military gets to the M-16A1B5, they will go to another combat infantry weapon.
If you like the .223 Round, I suggest a Rugar Mini-14, it’s a much better Rifle………….
Report Post »WATER-THE-TREE
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 1:51amYou can take an Ak- 47 bury it in the dirt, dig it up years later, piss on it and it will fire. saw a video of this.
Report Post »BryanB
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 3:34am@WATER-THE-TREE
The AK-47 has it’s shortcomings, the biggest one is accuracy. You have to be a better then average marksman to shoot one, if your an out of the box shooter, you will not do well with an AK-47.. It requires a lot of practice to be accurate.
I really don’t like the AK-47, they where made just to throw lead, especially on full auto, and you may never hit the target. I would never own one.
If you could combine the firepower and easy maintenance of the AK-47 (7.62×35mm), with the accuracy of an M16 (5.56mm), or some varitation of NATO Rounds, like 7.62mm (308) or 30 Caliber (30-06).. You would have an excellent combat infantry weapon.
Maybe the military should have stuck with the M-14, it was an excellent rifle, just heavyer then and M-16………
Report Post »Slipstick
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 8:59am@BrianB: The M-16 has been the worst Weapon the Military has ever had, no matter what variation………. Then why do the SEAL’s and all our other military use them so ubiquitously?
Report Post »My AR‘s only acted up when I got the occasional lot of bad cheap ’noisemaker’ ammo. I don’t do that any more and have no problems, now.
BryanB
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 9:01pm@Slipstick
“@BrianB: The M-16 has been the worst Weapon the Military has ever had, no matter what variation………. Then why do the SEAL’s and all our other military use them so ubiquitously?
My AR‘s only acted up when I got the occasional lot of bad cheap ’noisemaker’ ammo. I don’t do that any more and have no problems now.”
First of all I never said the M-16 was the “worst Weapon”, that still go’s to the French made Sho-Sho light machine gun, that the U.S. Military used during WWI. And by the way that how the U.S. got the B.A.R….
Second, I don‘t have any idea as to why SEAL’s carry the M-16 (M-4), Maybe thats whats issued to them ?
Although I have seen Special Operations Units using the following
HK 416 5.56mm
FNH MK-16 5.56mm
FNH MK-17 7.62mm
Also I have seen Special Operations using HK Sub Machine Guns and various other HK and FNH weapons and even the Springfield M-14…
Third, You and your AR, are not in combat conditions, your not rolling around in the mud or sand with it, your not droping, banging, hitting, using it as a cane to up and down off the ground because of all the crap your wearing. You are not carrying your AR, for 12 to 16 hours a day, and firing it, sometime continuously for hours and sometimes days at a time.
Report Post »For what you bought your AR for, it works just fine, and you will have it for many many years……..
Coulterr
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:21pmThis is why I’ve stuck with the 1911A-1 all these years. I have a SIG Pro much like this one, I also have a Glock. But they’re plastic except for load bearing points in the frame/slide and the metal barrels.
Report Post »scrudge
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:35pmAh Yes….. if it isn’t made of steel.. you got junk…. 100% correct…. plastic– polymer— aluminum– all belong in hOLLYWOOD—- with the fakes…. my opinion
Report Post »Coulterr
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:18pmAdd your commentsHmmm…I own a Sig Pro much like the one here. SIG, Glock, Sigma, etc, all plastic except the pressure bearing parts. Light to carry but I’ve always styuck to the all metal 1911 A-1.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:17pmJust 3D print a new frame.
Report Post »woodyb
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:17pmOne thing for sure — it wasn‘t a ’fast and furious’ weapon, because the cartels needed the BEST, but not so much our border control agents!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »ANTIPATHIZER308WIN
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:29pmOh snap!
Report Post »hi-polymer
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:16pmI don’t even need to read the article to know why his gun snapped in half. It’s a $500 piece of (Not made in America) plastic junk.
Report Post »WillG
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:15pmH&K got some “splaining” to do!
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:14pmBorder patrol agents are allowed to carry firearms? Ran out of bean bags to throw at the beaners eh?
Report Post »MangoT21
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:13pmI’ve seen this happen to “all metal” paintball guns before.
It just depends on the type and amount of force applied.
Report Post »sasquatch08
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:21pmOr there was a flaw in the manufacturing process.
Nothing is made perfectly 100% of the time.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:10pmWas it made in China ?
Report Post »vic138
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:23pmNo, Heckler and Koch guns are made in germany. The highest quality. This gun goes for around 900. Very good gun.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:34pmWhat . Is that suppose to be an improvement ?
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:37pm“ Both ”thats” .”
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:41pmAnd, somebody got took!
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:47pmLet me see ……… we went to war with them , right ?
Report Post »Edohiguma
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:55pmvic138, German quality is no longer the highest quality and hasn’t been for quite a while.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:19pmThanks! I was running out of material – going next to parts made in Europe.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:21pmExcept, Israel !
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