‘Huge Let Down’: Army Will Yank Widespread Camouflage Pattern Deemed a ‘Colossal Mistake’
- Posted on June 26, 2012 at 11:50am by
Liz Klimas
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Universal Camouflage Pattern Army Combat Uniform (Photo: Wikimedia)
In 2004, the U.S. Army deployed a new, digitized camouflage pattern for its uniforms. Now, reports are that not only did the pixelated pattern cost $5 billion, but that it doesn’t work well in any environment and is soon to be replaced.
The Daily wrote on the “colossal mistake” of a uniform pattern over the weekend with experts and soldiers weighing in on the “fiasco”:
“Essentially, the Army designed a universal uniform that universally failed in every environment,” said an Army specialist who served two tours in Iraq, wearing [Universal Camouflage Pattern (UCP)] in Baghdad and the deserts outside Basra. “The only time I have ever seen it work well was in a gravel pit.”
The specialist asked that his name be withheld because he wasn’t authorized to speak to the press.
“As a cavalry scout, it is my job to stay hidden. Wearing a uniform that stands out this badly makes it hard to do our job effectively,” he said. “If we can see our own guys across a distance because of it, then so can our enemy.”
Brandon Webb, editor of the website SOFREP (Special Operations Forces Report) and former Navy SEAL Sniper Head Instructor, said in an email to the Blaze that this snafu was a “huge let down to the U.S. tax payer.”
“It’s also proof that the antiquated Department of Defense acquisition system is broken and in desperate need of fixing,” said Webb, who talks more about the changing landscape of the military and acquisition process in his book “The Red Circle.” Webb also wrote his own post on the uniform debate here.
“I could develop a better solution in a few months and for under $100,000,” Webb said. “All I would need is a good graphics designer and a contract lab (for IR/Thermal spectrum testing). I was recently part of a camouflage development for the commercial hunting market and we developed a very good multi-environment pattern for $70,000. Just look at the success of Crye and their wildly successful Multicam pattern.”
So where did the gray-green uniform go wrong? The Daily reports that it got political.
“It got into political hands before the soldiers ever got the uniforms,” Army textile technologist Cheryl Stewardson said to The Daily, noting that Army brass sped along a decision before testing was complete. Camouflage researchers testing patterns for the Army in the early 2000s were pressured to choose a design like the “trendy” new one being used by the Marine Corps.
For comparison purposes, this is the Marine Corps Combat Utility Uniform. (Image: Wikimedia)
“If it’s good enough for the Marines, why shouldn’t the Army have that same cool new look?” Stewardson said to The Daily.
For now, researchers continue to test new patterns, but The Daily reports the new design is still about a year away.
Read more details in The Daily here.
(H/T: Gizmodo)
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Comments (205)
hard.right
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:59pmUnbelieveable. The government needs to stay out of military business. Fund whatever amount is deemed necessary by negotiation and bugetary constraints, put it in a bank account for the military, and let them spend it as they see fit. Oversight obviously, but nobody other than qualified military experts should be choosing equipment, clothing, training, etc. It’s not hard. Our government is stupid and has once again failed us. Empty Congress, Empty the Pentagon of anyone that doesn’t have a rank, Empty military installations of anyone without a rank, start from there.
Report Post »Blazebanned
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:39pm@macpappy.
Report Post »I’m assuming you are too young to remember JFK,and his brains he had under him,who had their hands in deciding what the military used.Im speaking of the M16,which they decided not to use a chrome bolt and reciever,guess what happened to that.Yea, lets keep the politicians involved in chosing what our soldiers use and wear, and we will continue to bury said same, because of it…..
mils
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:47pmanyone…ANYONE…that makes military decisions…
Report Post »SHOULD HAVE QUALIFICATIONS OF MILITARY EXPERIENCE..
.E X P E R I E N C E …..not some arm chair general…
GroundZero is Nuclear Demolition x3
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:02pmBreaking WTF!!
Report Post »http://youtu.be/8YszG74gD-s
lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:05pmWe have the Positions that We need… Representatives to represent the people… an Administration to administer the law… Military School Graduates & Experience to Lead… and a Hierarchy to preven Mob Rule & Chaos. All that we need is a System… to place the Competent in the Correct Positions… rather, we have Round plugs in Square holes; Incompetence!
Politics does not benefit us!
Report Post »mensa141
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:35pmMAy as well go back to the Red Coats used by the British army. They really made nice targets.
Report Post »bcshealy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:41pmMessage to our government who screws up virtually everything they touch: How about try a new camouflage uniform on a test group before you spend millions giving it to EVERYONE? This was about as stupid as wasting billions on solar energy technology that wasn’t even tested, much less proven. As a friend of mine says, there just ain’t no pill for STUPID.
Report Post »laserblast92
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:09pmThe military and politicians continually repeat history. Since the revolutionary war politicians have injected their ideas in to what the military should do and use, and every time it has cost lives to be proven wrong. Robert McNamara is a good one to use, he took a weapon and injected his ideas on how it would be used and killed many people because of it. In previous wars soldiers were not allowed to have repeating weapons because politicians did not want them wasting ammunition because of cost.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:20pmIn the military, it‘s still political even after it’s gotten past the pencil necks on the Hill. The fact is, the Army didn’t put its foot down when the ACU was designed & the result was an epic fail that didn’t camoflage anyone into anything and that may have gotten soldiers killed.
By comparison, I give you the MARPATs. They’re based upon the CADPAT (Canadian pattern but redesigned specifically for Marines by Marines & they’re universally recognized as the best camo uniform in the American military today. They’re also only sold on bases Marines are stationed at, which is why you don’t see them all over the street like the old woodland pattern is.
Don’t plan on the Army getting it, though. Them asking for it would be like them asking us to allow them the use of the Marine Blue Dress Class A uniform. Sorry, pups, Devil Dogs only. The only non-Marines authorized to wear it are Navy personnel attached to Marine units and the SD Pardes in military appreciation games.
As the spokesman said when it was rolled out, “We want to be instantly recognized as a force to be reckoned with. We want them to see us coming a mile away in our new uniforms.” Not exactly the right idea for camo, but you get the idea of what he was saying: Instantly distinguishable from the Army, prompting the “Oh, ****!” factor.
The only camo worse than the Army‘s ACU is the Navy’s NWU:
http://bit.ly/MSBAlx
Same pattern as the ACU, but the freaking thing is blue!
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:31pm@LEFTFIGHTER
“Don’t plan on the Army getting it, though.”
The sneaky bastards already tried to steal it. Back in 2002, after they refused to help fund it (the Navy and Marines paid for all the development), they tried to just take it. Forget who threw down the gauntlet, but needless to say the Army backed off there desire to ‘steal’ the pattern.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:07pm@“It’s also proof that the antiquated Department of Defense acquisition system is broken and in desperate need of fixing,” Right like that is a new development. The Defense Dept. and the military has been the most lucrative source of money for private industry since WWII.
Report Post »FedUpWithLibs
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:35pmYea, I won’t be surprised if they come out with a flaming pink camo.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:51pmI guess the Navy can keep their pixels as they need no such camo anyways! If they do go in the field for tactical reasons with Army or Marines, then they can wear whatever uniform those guys will be wearing. What crazy nonsense.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 5:47pm@hardright
Report Post »You’ve got a great first step. My question, who cares about a $5 bill. mistake, lets’ get the measurement in lives lost or military persons injured because of this fiasco! Make it REAL people, THIS IS NOT ABOUT WASTING TAXPAYER MONEY! THIS MAKES OUR MILITARY EASIER TARGETS! They die from that!
Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 5:57pm@mils
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:47pm
anyone…ANYONE…that makes military decisions…
Report Post »SHOULD HAVE QUALIFICATIONS OF MILITARY EXPERIENCE..
.E X P E R I E N C E …..not some arm chair general…
***
Don’t have quite that experience BUT LET US MILITARY PARENTS IN ON THOSE DECISIONS, I‘LL BET THERE’D BE A B*I*G CHANGE IN THE TESTING AND PROCUREMENT PROCESS. “YOU’RE PUTTING MY KID ON THE BATTLEFIELD IN WHAT…..????” Why stop with procurement, how about ROE’s and interrogation techniques??? Any other military parents what to help tell them what these would look like? (My kid would be saying, nope! Look Mom, they won’t let us run around with bayonet covered clothes that stick out 5 ft in front and all the way around us, and some people who give us attitude maybe shouldn’t get some of those techniques.)
ScarletRose
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 5:59pmWHEN will we start fighting BACK against our REAL worst enemy?
Report Post »muffythetuffy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 7:03pmWe All Knew This Years Ago . I Asked Marines and Soldiers how this camo was suppose to work. They shrugged their shoulders. This camo must have been created by an Affirmative Action committee. This camo pattern is excellent in the pitch dark on or a soldier who has been buried.
How many of our troops wearing this mistake were killed by Muslim 12 year olds using their AK47 at 500 yards?
Report Post »muffythetuffy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 7:06pmParents of our troops should have sent them Wall Mart hunting camo, it would have worked better. The Affirmative Action uniform committee decided on this pattern and white officers feared to object. Well at least they now have the rainbow Orero cookie in the Chow Hall and Army hospitals for desert.
Report Post »1947
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 8:41pmGet Obama out of office and you won’t have that problem
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 10:14pm@bcshealy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:41pm
Message to our government who screws up virtually everything they touch: How about try a new camouflage uniform on a test group before you spend millions giving it to EVERYONE? This was about as stupid as wasting billions on solar energy technology that wasn’t even tested, much less proven. As a friend of mine says, there just ain’t no pill for STUPID.
Report Post »***
In Ohio the statement is “You can’t fix stupid!” Same theory, probably a pair of truths.
nzkiwi
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 5:29amI’m still trying to figure out how a camoflage pattern can cost $5 billion.
As in five thousand million dollars. How could you possibly spend that much money on developing a pattern?
Or is that the cost of all the completed uniforms that they now have to dump? But surely they would have tested them first, wouldn’t they? And even if the uniforms were completed, and you made a million of them, each one would cost $5000. How many people are in the US Army?
Something is not quite right, here.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 2:44pm@ NZ Kiwi
BDU set: $20
Modular Armor Vest (Not including ceramic trauma plates): $1200
Various modular pouches for vest: $20 / piece. Most troops will have 8-10 pouches for gear, ammo, grenades, etc.
Hydration carrier: $80
Backpack: $150
Assuming low-ball on above numbers: $1650
Not even counting wear/tear and damage to gear, gear dumped in combat for battlefield expedient purposes and unrecovered, it only takes 2.7 million iterations of that gear load to get to your $5 billion figure. If you do count in the attrition of expended gear, you can add up a lot faster.
Report Post »Raven249
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 3:53pmThe ACUs are a flop? You don’t say! Gotta love the brilliance of our federal government..I never did figure out how I was supposed to blend in wearing those things. Sure, they look interesting enough, but I always thought the point of camouflage was to blend in. Meaning you shouldn‘t really look anything if you’re standing against a background because you should be too hard to see.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 5:52pm@ Ohiofifleman
I didn’t realise all the things that were included.
Thanks for the explanation.
Cheers
Report Post »kangaroo
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:56pmGive them a gun belt and a pair of boxers and let them have a mud fight every day, problem solved
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:44pmSoldiers only fight the Battles as Tactics (as Pawns)… as directed by the Leaders (as King or Queen), who provide the Strategy!
Report Post »warhorse_03826
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:55pmso these used uniforms will be dumped on the civillian market soon. good.
the main problem with the patter was that it was too light. add some grey or green dye to them and they’ll work just fine.
Report Post »Tipdog
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:57pmThere is more to it then what colors they use, it is the overall pattern and pallet. Putting a little OD in it won’t change a thing. It will still suck.
Report Post »ENIGMA28724
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 8:56pmLikely not. The DRMO has decreed that uniforms no longer serviceable are to be destroyed rather than sold on the civilian market. I’m told they were concerns that terrorists might use them to get access to secure areas at home and abroad. This DRMO is the same group of MENSA candidates that decided scrap brass small arms casings had to be demilled and sold as scrap brass at a lower price rather than sold intact to reloading businesses. [The NRA and public outcry got that overturned]. Hate to tell them, but the terrorists have funds and operatives that can obtain these uniforms by other means, as well as civilian copies that look more original than the original. Concerning the color/pattern, the Marine MARPAT or Multicam is a much better pattern for temperate areas. Desert areas, no. It’s too dark, but might be usable if it was much lighter.
Report Post »MEANS2RESIST
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 12:34amThey’re already swithced over to a new pattern. I have seen some troops already wearing them in the stan. It may be a test run but they‘re using one of the new patterns to replace the UCP’s.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/03/army-camo-4-replacement-options-weighed-031012w/
Report Post »lel2007
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:53pmSeems to me that a camouflage pattern would be pretty easy to TEST before deployment.
Report Post »chuck_in_st_paul
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:06pmseriously, that stands out as THE biggest stupidity in this whole thing
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:51pmI work for a government research lab, 25 years ago, it was a world class origination, now, nepotism and quotas has turned it into a smelly pile of crap. 25 years ago, family members couldn’t be hired at all, and race never played a role in the hiring process. Somewhere along the line, the rules changed, and family of federal employees are given first shot at positions, qualified or not. If they aren’t qualified, they are hired anyway, and sent off to school at government expense to meet any missing requirements. The result, is garbage like this clothing design, the old garbage in, garbage out couldn’t be truer.
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:48pmI say we bring back the cotton rip-stops and black jump boots. Get rid of the new dress ensemble and reissue TW’s.
Report Post »shagstar
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:13pmi agree,,,and when did looking,,cool,,become the issue in a combat arena?
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:25pmSGM.
I hated the cotton khakis. After an hour, the starched khakis looked like you slept in them. The Tropical Worsted were great. They looked STRAC all the time. I had ripstops in CONUS but I couldn’t wear them because not all the troops had them.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:32pmAye. The guy with the simplest uniform usually wins.
Report Post »Flyingfish
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:56pmI do not miss the black leather boots, you spent more time polishing them than wearing them, unless of course you were an office puke which means you should have been in your blues, class A’s, etc anyway instead of BDUs prettending like you weren’t a non-er.
I do like the wash and wear of the new uniforms, rip-stop has it’s place, but was very hard to keep up with without a half a bottle of starch. I whole heartedly agree the new patterns suck badly.
They should let the mid level NCOs pick the garb and gear. They are old enough not to pick stupid stuff, but young enough to take the ridiculous idea of new “heritage” uniform items and leave them in the base museum where they belong and certainly not buy into the “marketing” garbage the so called experts come up with to make us look “cool” to the new recruits.
A ten minute search on the web will come up with a dozen different camo designs that are twenty times better than the crap that it took the bosses 8 years to figure out were worthless.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 10:29pm@shagstar
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:13pm
i agree,,,and when did looking,,cool,,become the issue in a combat arena?
Report Post »***
When they decided that instead of “Breaking things and Killing People.“ the role of the military should be to provide ”meals on wheels“ and ”nation building”.
kenned
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:46pmTypical of the pentagon to go for the most expensive solution to a simple problem. Start with 50 differnent patterns, have them on manequins, put them 100 yards out and shoot the ones you see.
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:57pmHas anyone seen the USAF digital uniform? Looks like a Hawaiian shirt from a gay pride parade.
Report Post »Machtyn
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:00pmWith RPGs!
Better yet, just nuke it from space. It’s the only way to be sure.
:D
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 7:11pmTo me, the USAF uni looks like they copied the Army’s ACU colors into a tiger stripe and that was it. The first time that I saw the Army ACU was on TV during the 2005 post Katrina assistance when the Army sent in a general to command the military assistance to the city. He was in that uni and wearing the stolen Ranger beret. I’m retired Army, but I have often wondered just what a bunch of bumbling idiots were left in charge. The ACUs that this general was wearing stood out like Cook’s whites. Much like the History Channel’s snipers at Ft Benning, on the range surrounded by a pine forest. They also looked like cooks standing amongst the trees. Not knocking cooks, but their unis are for a specific reason, and it’s not camouflage. Staying with the woodland pattern, which was a 1/6th magnification of the 2nd generation of the ERDL would have been just fine. The Marines kicked off this designer camo pattern fiasco with their MARPAT, which in my personal opinion sucks in their temperate zone version. Their desert pattern is probably the best camo ever developed for the terrain though. The Army should have stayed out of that mix all together and if necessary just redesigned the cut of the BDU uni.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 10:36pm@kenned
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:46pm
Typical of the pentagon to go for the most expensive solution to a simple problem. Start with 50 differnent patterns, have them on manequins, put them 100 yards out and shoot the ones you see
Report Post »***
PERFECT SOLUTION! Would you consider “Secretary of Defense” for Romney?
cassandra
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 7:52amKENNED that would make to much sence, the government dosen’t belive in that
Report Post »Thomas_Jefferson_philosophy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:34pmjust proves a point, the private sector does it better and cheaper!
Report Post »edcoil
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:41pmI was in the Navy when Admiral Zoomie changed the enlisted uniform to match officers – no dixie cups, pants – went to officer uniforms – most hated it when it was finally dumped it cost a fortune then.
Report Post »Altair
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 6:14pmZumwalt. Hippie in uniform. Authorized ALMAR 68, which allowed black Marines to wear long bushy “Afro” haircuts… and they had to keep their covers (hats) on with BOBBY PINS !
Total jerk.
Report Post »ICEDRAGON
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:32pmAlways let the politicians make your decisions , they do such a fine job that they screw it up every single time. When are we the people going to learn? The only good government is a very, very small government. So they will fear the people.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:29pmAu Contraire this in not a mistake it’s…… incompetence
Report Post »MacJedi
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:29pmThe FAR is a deeply flawed regimen in both detail and its OVERWHELMING size. I’m sure that to get US$1 of REAL value delivered to the field that the bureaucratic monster spends US$2. That is an efficiency factor that cannot be tolerated managerially or financially. It underlies the entire mindset of FEDERAL practice.
Report Post »countryfirst
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:28pmObama would prefer a rainbow pattern
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:49pmGays like the Tutu!
Report Post »ilikai
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:27pmit took them 8 years to figure this out while the whole time they were worn in actual combat? Typical Military boondoggling.
Report Post »762x51
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:26pmAbsolutely hilarious if it wasn’t for the danger to our troops and cost to the taxpayers.
I standardized my gear on the Crye Precision Multicam pattern over two years ago. because the ACU pattern was clearly ineffective, especially in urban environments. A newer commercial pattern called A-TACS AU looks to be perfect for urban concealment and should do well in the coming city centric battlefield. As a foundation for for a snipe ghillie suit A-TACS AU is very effective. Both patterns are available in NIR compliant 50/50 NYCO appropriate for military operations.
$5B dollars for a product inferior to what the private sector developed for a fraction of the cost, and these jerks think they can run health care, don’t make me laugh. For $5B DOD could have re-barreled every M4 in the inventory to give our soldiers a more effective weapon for the mission they are tasked with and built a few more of the now cancelled F22 fighters.
This ain’t rocket science, that was NASA before they were changed to the Islamic Esteem Department (IED).
Report Post »Stu D. Baker-Hawk
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:21pmYou think the Army’s camo is bad? You should see the Navy’s new camo utility uniform… it’s BLUE! Now forgive me but the only thing a blue camo uniform is good for is trying to stay hidden if you’re in the water. And if you’re in the water and in the Navy, it usually means your ship has sunk beneath you, and the LAST thing you need at that point is to be hard to see to potential rescuers. Dumb, dumb, dumb…
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:52pmNext… Shark Costumes!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:20pmIn the History of the US Military… Weapon Selection and Support Equipment… has been a Hierarchical Decision… being an Incompetent System, guided by Napoleonic Thinking, where troops are thought to Pawns or CannonFodder!
Report Post »PhantomsPhorever
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:19pmLooks like its time for the US Army to utilize page 1 chapter 1 from the US Army Playbook…..“EMULATE THE MARINE CORPS”. hewahhh um I mean OOH RAH!!!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:48pmAccording to the Constitution… a Soldier is any Military Personnel: CannonFodder is CannonFodder in any Battle!
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:33pmThis is part of the great ongoing political battle between the Army and the Marines. The Army has argued that having the Marines is redundant and the Army can fill that role. The Marines have better public relations. The USMC has the cool uniform so the Army has to get their cooler one.
If it wasn’t so dangerous, it would be funny. BTW, none of the services want the same uniforms. Each wants to be different.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:49pm@DIS…
Report Post »Too True… Exactly.
eagle2715
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:28pm“The Army has argued that having the Marines is redundant and the Army can fill that role”
End yet they continually call on the Marines to clean up their **** sandwiches….
Last time I checked, the army didn’t own any amphibious assault craft, and they need to call the Airforce to get anywhere.
The Marines have been around since before the constitution was wrote, and will exist long into the future (Haven’t you seen Aliens, or played HALO?? DUH?! *sarcasm*)
Report Post »PhantomsPhorever
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:18pmThe only role the Army can’t fill is VICTORY. Ever since that coward Truman called Marines “fancy police” some politician in an Army uniform has sought to take over from the Corps. Eventually enough people come up and say, yeah but you know, someone has to be able to actually fight and WIN at all costs. As my Senior Drill Instructor told us, “THERE WAS A MARINE CORPS BEFORE THERE WAS A UNITED STATES. THERE WILL BE A MARINE CORPS AFTER THE UNITED STATES; …..IN SPITE OF THE UNITED STATES.
SEMPER FI
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:41pmEagle
Clam down. I am not slighting the Corps. The interservice fight between the Army and the Marines is well known and has been for a long time. The USMC does have a better public relations program than the Army.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 10:49pm@PhantomsPhorever
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 4:18pm
The only role the Army can’t fill is VICTORY. Ever since that coward Truman called Marines “fancy police” some politician in an Army uniform has sought to take over from the Corps. Eventually enough people come up and say, yeah but you know, someone has to be able to actually fight and WIN at all costs. As my Senior Drill Instructor told us, “THERE WAS A MARINE CORPS BEFORE THERE WAS A UNITED STATES. THERE WILL BE A MARINE CORPS AFTER THE UNITED STATES; …..IN SPITE OF THE UNITED STATES.
SEMPER FI
Report Post »***
Now if only the Marine Corps would convince the others to defend the Constitution from the domestic enemies in DC!
We could stand an Honduras type movement here!
USNRET04
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:19pmI thought it was funny that the Navy also had adopted a digitized camoflage uniform, but in shades of blue. It is obviously just a fashion statement since the camo will not hide you up against a haze grey ship or black submarine! It would work great if you fell overboard and not want to be seen!
Report Post »762x51
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:36pmCamo patterns are obviously effective only on land, no enemy is going to see a 30,000 ton warship floating around in the ocean and think that it is abandoned because they cannot see the camouflaged sailors on board. The only thing worse than that is the Air Force ABU pattern. It sucks out loud and is even less effective that the Army ACU pattern. If the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines are all going to operate on this planet, not some other planet, then their camo needs to be effective for the environments found on THIS planet. The branch of service is irrelevant, its the environment stupid. If you put a member of each of the four services in a camo uniform appropriate to the environment they are in, the pattern is not more or less effective on the Air Force soldier than on the Marine. Does DOD really need that explained?
Report Post »Matrhorn
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:07pmActually Air Force has a different camo for use in the battlefield. The one airforce personel normally wear i meant to differentiate the air force from the other branches, kinda like the navy’s blue camo. When we (the airforce) are deployed to afganistan or iraq, we are issued dessert camo.
As for the army, they do have another camo that they use in deployments, but its looks like some jungle camo which seems pretty ineffective in the desert…lol. Most every branch has differetn camos for their special forces or for deployments.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:16pmThe green/gray cammies would be good for jungle areas only and only if you hid behind bushes. The tan ones I can see are too light for desert areas. They need to be more tan. The fact that the Army did not test throughly does not surprise me. You will never get a perfect camoflauged uniform as you never know where you will be sent, however you at minimum have one that works in jungle and one for desert conditions.
Report Post »762x51
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:44pmTrue but the Crye Multicam pattern is effective in both. I think that the A-TACS AU pattern is better in urban environments which is where the coming civil war will be fought. Additional environments include Arctic an woodland, the Army pattern is effective in none of the above. Woodland is difficult because the deciduous forest of the pacific northwest differs greatly from the conifer forests of the Rocky Mountains. The fewer patterns our military uses the lower the cost to the taxpayers.
Report Post »PubliusMaximus
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:19pmMy gosh, I just went to the Crye Multicam site- check out the photo gallery for some amazing concealment! These are user submitted pix- truly amazing camos.
And our boys aren’t wearing theses…why?
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:13pmAt least you don’t have to starch them and wear the shirt tucked like the old green fatigues.
Report Post »The Sergeant Major
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:45pmShowing you age now, were yours 100% cotton? Brown boots?
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:40pmSGM
Yes on the cotton. Black boots not brown. I am not that old. I was in when the switch to subdued rank was made. I bet I saluted 50 PFC’s who I thought were Majors.
Report Post »Dustoff
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 2:36pmLOL, them were the days.
Report Post »gpk
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:18pmRemember it well. Nothing like the old olive drab…….breaking starch with a hangover was a bitch.
Report Post »eagle2715
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 3:36pmHah, I remember those days. I was in the last set of platoons at Paris Island to get the old woodland cammies. And because of supply shortages when they first came out it was nearly impossible to get any at the uniform store for almost a year. So while the rest of the Marine Corps was moving on to digis and not having to iron or starch, me and some others were stuck ironing and starching our utilities every day.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:13pm$5 billion to design a camo pattern…and Obama wanted the government to control health care in order to bring the cost down. He’s so intelligent.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:30pm“Camouflage researchers testing patterns for the Army in the early 2000s were pressured to choose a design like the “trendy” new one being used by the Marine Corps.”
Oh no, GONZO, now Obama can travel through time!? We’re doomed! DOOMED!!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:38pmI never said Obama spent the money. I said government did and Obama wanted government to control health care. Either your reading skills are pathetic or your comprehension is non existent. Should I speak slower? Write in all caps?
Report Post »762x51
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:47pmGonzo, to get through to a ******* like VOX you will have to do both and write slower, not speak slower. He went to public schools and was taught by the teachers union, that makes him handicapped.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:27pmGonzo, you must say it as if you were speaking to a child, er, I mean a liberal.
Report Post »southernORcobra
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:12pmAbout damned time I‘m suprised at this the army has a history of dragging it’s feet on everything. Now they just need to replace the crappy m16 line of weapons.
Report Post »Red Bubba
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:05pmRight, because after 50 years of success, it would be a good idea to ask the bureacrats to pick something else. My 6.8 SPC AR is the perfect deer rifle.
Report Post »femalecombatvet_hooah
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:10pmm4.
Report Post »chips1
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 1:39pmREDBUBBA:
Report Post »Do you mean 50 years? That weapon cost many of my friends their lives in Nam because they jammed if just a small piece of dirt got in it. Nam was hot, dusty,and up to your neck in water, all in the same day. Many of us hid out M-14 just to save our lives. I’m not a gun person, but, I used what they gave me and adapted to what was happening. Our objective was ONLY to stay alive with your buddy and go home. Robert Heiser didn’t make it. I failed, He succeeded. I’m alive. It should have been him!!!
LeFaux Jew
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 5:50pmMaybe they can dump the beretta 9 mils too?
Report Post »I mean ….its an okay piece but nothing like a good 45. Won’t go through windshields, simple car tires, some won’t go through door panels.
ENIGMA28724
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 9:13pmI’m not convinced that the M16 is such a crappy system, but the military has just about improved it to death with shortening the barrel and changing the rate of twist to 1/7, which leads to failure to stop an enemy as all it does is poke little 0.22 caliber holes. What should be done is change the caliber to a more effective one, like 6.8 SPC, leave the barrel no shorter than 14.5″, and come up with a drop in piston replacement for the gas system so the receiver doesn’t get gummed up with powder residue. Don’t get me wrong, I like the FN SCAR in 223, but I like the 7.62 NATO version even better. Reports I hear are that that it doesn’t require 5-6 rounds of 7.62 to stop the enemy “‘right now”. It’s a shame that so many things we ask our troops to use are not well thought out, including their camo uniforms.
Report Post »M-Theory
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 9:48pmI liked my m16a2. It never jammed on me once.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:06pmBetter to target you, my dear.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:05pmhere‘s to hoping the new one doesn’t look like something that crawled out of a tetris game
Report Post »chips1
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:02pmHow can Obama‘s muslim buddies kill our troops if they can’t see them?
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 26, 2012 at 12:10pmAh… the Harry Potter cloak is coming… with a Field Effect Generator absorbs all light, and prevents refraction… as proposed in 1942, to make Ships Invisible!
Report Post »Redwood Elf
Posted on June 27, 2012 at 12:53pmDon’t worry…Obama will replace it with an “all inclusive” rainbow pattern that will look like a tie-dyed T-shirt with peace signs all over it…
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