Hundreds of Lobbying Atheists Prepare to ‘Flood’ Capitol Hill On Friday
- Posted on March 21, 2012 at 6:53am by
Billy Hallowell
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Washington D.C. is in for an infusion of anti-religious sentiment this weekend. On Saturday, thousands of atheists and secularists are expected to converge on the National Mall in Washington, D.C. to celebrate their non-belief through a massive event called the “Reason Rally.”
But the day before this supposed amalgamate of non-believers descends on the nation’s capitol, the Secular Coalition for America is holding the “Lobby Day for Reason” — an event aimed at training atheists in how to interact with Congress.
(Related: Westboro Baptist Church Set to Clash With Atheists at ‘Woodstock for Non-Belief’)
The event, which will take place on Friday morning, will include free lobbying training followed by an opportunity for participating “atheists, humanists, freethinkers, and other nontheistic Americans” to meet with offices of the House and Senate. The issues they plan to discuss with lawmakers, of course, focus on the separation of church and state and their views on the intermingling of government and religion.
In a press release on Tuesday, the Secular Coalition announced that 280 “non-theistic Americans” have pre-registered to take part in this massive lobbying effort. It read, in part:
Lobby Day for Reason will encourage and support secular and nontheistic Americans to speak out to the elected officials who were put in office to serve all of their constituents regardless of religious beliefs. The Secular Coalition for America will support these taxpaying Americans as they put faces to the nontheistic and secular communities and tell their federal representatives that they are voters and are paying attention to issues.
With recent polls showing that non-religiously affiliated individuals account for 16 percent of Americans, it’s not surprising to learn that this pool of citizens planning to attend the training represents 36 states and the District of Columbia. Already, the Coalition claims to have setup 50 meetings with Senate offices and more than 100 meetings with Representatives’ offices — with more to come.
“We wanted a wave of nonreligious and secular voters to flood the halls of every congressional building—and that’s just what we are going to have,” proclaimed Amanda Knief, who serves as government relations manager for the Secular Coalition.
Knief is quoted as saying in the release that these non-believing taxpayers plan to show their representatives that they are voters who care about their country. It is their plan to, thus, share their vision for a government free of theological influence.
The Blaze will be at the lobbying training and the Reason Rally, bringing you reports as both events unfold.
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Comments (286)
bree001
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:44amAnd government will welcome them with open arms. It has begun. http://www.brendasblog7.com/home-page
Report Post »MS-GlenNBC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:35amBreaking News
Jeb Bush Endorses Mitt Romney
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/03/jeb-bush-endorses-mitt-romney-in-gop-primary/
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:14pmYou sound uneducated. Do you have any idea just how high of a percentage of our congress self-identifies as Christian? Here’s a hint: It’s like, all of them.
You want to use the term “Government” so you can easily demonize and vilify the secular institution that has made this the freest, greatest country in the world.
Thanks to the secular foundation of our constitution and society, idiots like you can practice your superstitions and cast venom on those of us that try to live normal, rational lives.
Report Post »ghostsouls
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:32pmobama has put in new laws about protesting there, they better watch out.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:56pmI’ve stated before, these are NOT atheists. These are communists. Communism “IS” a godless ‘faith’ in government supremacy and totalitarianism.
Report Post »cuinsong
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:59pmI guess if you believe that when you die its all over and you’re not going to be held responsible for your good or bad deeds then why worry about what’s right or wrong? Just have as much fun as you can till it ends. Right?
Report Post »“The Devils Song” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_10789987
rangerp
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:11pmthey already occupy the white house. Argue all you want in the islamic or christian debate, the current president is an atheist. His policies show that he is an atheist. Hillary is an atheist also.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:12pm@cuinsong
Report Post »I guess if you believe that when you die you go to some magical place that rewards you for your dogmatic ignorance you can justify flying planes into buildings without fear of your existence coming to an abrupt end. Can’t reason or argue for yourself, turn to an imaginary bully. Right?
Alastair
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:20pmLets see how much more attention this gets than 8/28 got….
Report Post »Paul
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:45pmTime for another Earthquake…
Report Post »Jezreel
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:56pmOBAMA’S BIRTH CERFICATE SURFACES IN AFRICA
Report Post »http://beforeitsnews.com/story/1920/926/Obamas_Kenyan_Birth_Certificate_Surfaces_In_Africa.html
NHwinter
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:58pmMaybe its time for Christians and Jews to flood Capital Hill and show them just how many and how strong we are. Enough of the minority demanding attention.
Report Post »rangerp
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:07pm@Pontiac
read this, then come back and debate a little
http://mbbc.us/resource/skeptics.pdf
Report Post »777phase
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:09pmDon’t forget, National Atheist’s Day April 1st.
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:25pmJezreel – That link is very interesting. Lets see IF is authentic. That is a big IF. Would it undo all Obama has done? Biden as President?
Report Post »Jezcruzen
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:13pmHey, keep your piehole shut, “piehole”! This isn’t a secular nation when 70% of the population identifies as being Christians. We don‘t care if dirtbags like you don’t believe in anything, or worship trees and rocks. What we believe, worship, or live is none of you business. If you think its all a big joke, then just laugh and move on. Keep poking though and see what happens!
Report Post »IdahoG
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:42pmAtheists and secularists can move to another country if they don’t like this one that was developed as one nation under God! I am so sick of people trying to change this county! You have the right in America to believe what ever it is you want so go believe in the voodoo you believe in and if you don’t like it, find another Godless place in the world to live!!!
Report Post »OklahomaBound
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:52pmSo in other words the unions are shipping in more paid homeless people to hold up signs to protest something they don’t care about.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on March 22, 2012 at 3:21pmHere goes the minority (16%) trying to rule the majority again!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 10:51amAlastair:
Probably not more than 8/28. I won’t even try to say it might come close. There are far more Xtians in this country and many more who believe in magical thinking. I admit, you have us outnumbered. The difference between us is that we aren’t looking at this as a competition with Glenn Beck or anyone else. We just want to get together and show our solidarity with each other. Even if only a thousand people come, that’s a thousand more pairs of hands doing something more than praying.
Report Post »SaraD
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 6:23amWell, it’s always entertaining to see what some knuckleheads post about reason rally. Mostly it’s a big get together. They speakers and stuff it’s not really training masses of atheists. I am an atheist, and no this country was not founded “under god” that was added a hundred a fifty years later and nothing our founding fathers wanted.
Report Post »No, I am not going anywhere, either are any other atheists. We are here to stay in our secular country.
Gangofone
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 1:01pmAs an atheist, I have little to do with these fools in D.C. Having no evidence to support the concept of a God or god, I base my morality on rational self intrest. The simplest example is why I don’t steal, for if I did, how could I complain when I come home to find my stuff missing? Expand this and you can build a fully rational view, that conflicts with the religious concept of a “morral commandment”! Communists are as mystic as you can get, they took the Bible and erased God and Jesus, replacing them with the State and Leader. In the end, it is rational people that the religious and or communist people hate, needing our free will to be crushed. I only wish I could get G.B. to understand this.
Report Post »Gangofone
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 1:28pmBecause of Thgic’s post 3/21/ 2:21 PM
Report Post »“For those who do not believe in God; you should be able to produce evidence that points to how God does not exist. If however, you cannot provide evidence that shows God does not exist, then your argument is null and void. You would simply be talking just for the sake of conversation. ”
The concept of a God is a “positive”, as such, for it to be true there will be evidence of it. I am not stateing a positive when I claim “I have no evidence of a God”. You advocate a God, you have the burden of proof, I cannot disprove a neg. Until you understand that the burden of proof belongs to the advocate of a positive, no meaningful debate can be had with you. Sory, no offence intended. Its either proven with our sences, or it is nonsence. Your call.
Future Hope
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:35amDon’t concern yourself with these people. God will handle them.
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:19pmI’m sorry you are so resentful of those around you that think rationally. There is still time in your life to give up superstition. There is no invisible slavemaster waiting for you to die so that he can judge you. There just isn’t.
Report Post »scriptor_clm
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:49pmjoe.r.piehole: Prove there is no God. Not even science has done so. “When it comes to God, I would rather be fifty percent right that he exists than one hundred percent wrong that he does not.”
Report Post »1digger
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:56pmFuture Hope, we can pray for their souls just as we should for the likes of joe.r.piehole who prefer ignorance over reality. If they cannot marvel at the intricacies of life itself whether it’s as small as DNA or the immense number of lifeforms and materials on the earth, our solar system, etc. and not acknowledge the creator; they will suffer the fate of fools; hell.
Report Post »cuinsong
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:10pmHay JOE.R.PIEHOLE
Report Post »What if you are wrong? If I am wrong it won’t matter because according to you it just ends.
But if their is a god, you’re screwed!
Maybe this song can open your eyes called “His Amazing Grace” http://www.reverbnation.com/play_now/song_11772079
Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:18pm@cuinsong
[What if you are wrong?]
What if you got the wrong religion?
@scriptor_clm
Report Post »[Prove there is no God.]
The burden of proof lies on religion.
Allie_In_VA
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:00pm@DeavonReye, there is plenty of proof of God. there are other writings (dead sea scrolls, history of the Jews…), that verify what is written in the Holy Bible. They are finding evidence burried in Israel that fits discriptions in the Holy Bible. You just choose to read anti-Christian writings instead of looking at the REAL evidence.
Report Post »Peace be with you…
THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:21pmJust reading through the comments on this article, there are a few who do not believe in God. Isn’t it wonderful to express religious freedom? I am glad we can agree on that. Now…here I am, expressing my religious freedom, by defending my very religion that you slander, put-down, and do not believe.
For those who do not believe in God; you should be able to produce evidence that points to how God does not exist. If however, you cannot provide evidence that shows God does not exist, then your argument is null and void. You would simply be talking just for the sake of conversation.
Here is a little bit of my evidence that I have come up with:
WARNING: These links are based on scientific findings and facts through studies, testing, and lots of research. These links will provide evidence of how the Universe could not have been created by chance, and therefor makes any argument about the Universe being “billions of years old” null and void.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/universe2.htm
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/design.html
Continuing…
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:33pmContinued…
If there is “No God”, then please explain to me this…
How is it possible that our Universe is created the way it is – being fine tuned to a degree that is infinite in it’s possibility – was created not by God, but by “No God”? Do you suppose that the Big Bang could have taken this “Primordial Soup”, and have exploded, expanding at such a rate that is faster than the speed of light, have everything “fall into place” so precisely, and have all of it occur at one time?
Here is an example of an “Anthropic Coincidence” that shows how the Universe had to be tuned exactly to that degree for life to exist: Gravity.
Ratio of Electromagnetic Force: Gravity
1:10^40 or 1×10^40
If Gravity was slightly off or miscalculated, the Universe could not have formed, and life for Humans would have been impossible.
There are various other examples of “Anthropic Coincidences” that prove how this Universe was not created by chance. And therefor, could only provide undeniable evidence that a “Supreme Being” or “Supernatural Being” had to have created it.
If you have any other questions, I would be glad to answer those.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:39pm[there is plenty of proof of God. there are other writings ]
Theist logic, “there are writings”.
[finding evidence *burried* in Israel that fits *discriptions* in the Holy Bible.]
Report Post »If centuries into the future archeologist find remnants of New York, which is mentioned in a Tom Clancy novels, does that prove the character Jack Ryan and his exploits were real? Please stop proliferating this theistic rubbish as if it is evidence or remotely convincing.
We already know humans are susceptible to lies, delusions, and myths as history repeatedly shows us with Adolf Hitler, Stalin, Kim Jung *, David Koresh, Marshall Applewhite, Ray Confort, L. Ron Hubbard, & Obama. And history shows their followers will pathologically lie, skew, distort, omit, and fabricate information to defend these beliefs.
Just stop it.
Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:43pm[you should be able to produce evidence that points to how God does not exist]
Report Post »I cannot produce evidence that the tooth fairy, unicorns, & leprechauns do not exist either.
I‘m not going to bother reading the rest of your psychotic post as I suspect it’s more of the same inane twaddle.
DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:47pmAllie, I happened to find your post directed to me in this thread line where I didn’t post. No matter. Nothing you addressed signifies a god, and definitely not a specific god such as Yahweh. That something real may be found in the pages of religious texts doesn’t make everything about them true, specifically the “supernatural” parts.
thgic, there ARE mysteries in the universe. However, consider the following: Just because we have yet to understand all things doesn’t make the odd/weird parts of our universe “created by a god”.
Report Post »Greg721
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:05pmSurprise, I am an Atheist, and I am as conservative as they get. I am pro-life, limited government and don’t care much for liberalism. In my opinion atheism is not a religion. Religion is belief or faith. I have neither. I have no issue with people of faith, except for I dislike being judged by people who are supposed to follow the “judge not lest thee be judged..” teaching of their Holy Scripture. I don’t find this the correct forum to debate religion. I just wanted to make it known that not all Atheists are liberal, big government, pot smoking hippies. I simply have a difficult time believing in that which is not backed with any empirical evidence. Thank you.
Report Post »rangerp
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:05pmthus the reason libs/dems/atheists hate israel. They see the prophecies made true by the existence of israel, and they can not stand it.
All manner of science backs up creation, from the second law of thermodynamics, to biogenics and the fossil records.
Energy comes from a supernatural source. Cells always come from another cell. Modern day scientist can not reproduce evolution in the labratory, nor will they ever be able to.
The fossil records do not show an evolution of life, they show an explosion of life, then it ends.
Notice the greates mass murderers in the world were atheists. From Hitler, to Stalin, to Mao. They worshiped their own brains.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:16pmPONTIAC,
“[you should be able to produce evidence that points to how God does not exist]
I cannot produce evidence that the tooth fairy, unicorns, & leprechauns do not exist either.”
You just admitted to not being able to prove that God does not exist. You pointed that out loud and clear, and only goes to show that your ignorance is what blinds you. Choose not to believe in something that you cannot disprove in the first place – that is ignorance at its best.
“I‘m not going to bother reading the rest of your psychotic post as I suspect it’s more of the same inane twaddle.”
Is that supposed to be a cop-out? Are you avoiding the rest of what I wrote simply because you think it is a “psychotic post” and is “inane twaddle”? That is such a poor excuse of really saying “I can’t think of anything to come back with”, that even Mr. Obama would shake his head. You should feel shame for stooping so low.
Report Post »MAProg
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:19pm@THGIC: First of all, the burden of proof falls to the one making the extraordinary claim (i.e. claiming the existence of an all powerful deity where no empirical evidence exists for one). Furthermore, proving a negative is logically impossible. I can’t prove there is no god, but you can‘t prove that there isn’t an invisible unicorn living on Jupiter. To take it further: I can‘t prove that Yahweh isn’t god, but you can‘t prove that Zuess isn’t god.
The argument that the universe is “fine-tuned” for human life is rubbish. Even if you completely removed the weak nuclear force, you’d still end up with a universe similar to our own. Furthermore, the vast majority of the earth alone is deadly to humans, let alone the entirety of universe. Allow me to repeat that: the vast majority of the universe, on the order of 99.999999999999999… is DEADLY to human life, and 99.5 percent of the entire earth’s mass is also DEADLY.
Computational models factoring the various natural forces result that in random trials, up to 25% of universes created would be as stable as ours is. It seems you might be comitting a fallacy that since we exist in a stable universe in the first place, that it MUST have been created specifically for us. We have the bebfit of being here to observe the universe, so it is an easy mistake to assume that since we are here, that the ENTIRE universe must have been made for us to be here.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:24pmDEAVONREYE,
“Just because we have yet to understand all things doesn’t make the odd/weird parts of our universe “created by a god”.”
Fair enough of a response; however, I have one problem with that. Can you prove that those “odd/weird parts of our universe” were not created by God? Do you have any proof of this? I have given my evidence, and if you read the quotes links that I posted, you would have a the word of scientists from all branches of science that will tell you differently.
Here is that link for you, again:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html
Please read these quotes, and then, if you have any other questions…again, please ask. I would be glad to answer any questions you have.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:47pmThgic, from looking at your link, I understand that there are many who see these things as incredible enough to give credit to “a creator”. What I see in that is. . . . . we haven’t reached a point in our technological advancement to determine these things. I see them as fascinating as well. I just choose to not end discovery with “a god did it”.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:52pmMAPROG,
Do you know what “Anthropic Coincidences” are? Did you even read my previous posts on that particular thread that focuses on the aspects of our Universe that require fine-tuning so the Universe could have been created in the first place, and thus providing for the Human race to exist?
Gravity, Expansion Rate of the Universe, Mass Density of the Universe, just to name a few; these are important aspects of the Universe and that which allows it to be (exist in working order). If any of these were even a hair out of place, the Universe could not exist, and therefor results in Human life not being possible.
“The argument that the universe is “fine-tuned” for human life is rubbish.”
The Universe has to be created first, and then fine-tuned to sustain it. And once the fine-tuning has been completed, then the factor of Human life comes into play, and has to be fine-tuned (calculated) so that too would be possible.
Trying to take my words and facts out of context is rather rude, and I find it tactless. If you wish to face facts with facts, then go back earlier in the thread, and read my posts. The proof is in the pudding.
Oh, and by the way; where are your source links? Your “facts”? I don’t recall you posting anything to back up your “facts”.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:58pmDEAVONREYE,
Very well then sir. You have made your stand, and I will respect your views.
I am glad that you have not thrown out the possibility that God exists, or that he created everything. I respect that, truly. Anyone can plead ignorance, but it takes someone with an “open mind” to keep all options on the table.
Thank you for the opportunity. It was a real treat to have a good conversation!
Report Post »MAProg
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:36pm@THGIC: I didn’t realize that I needed to cite sources to back up my statement that the vacuum of space, molecular clouds, stars, etc. of which makes up 99.99999999999999999% of the universe is deadly to humans. I also didn’t realize that I needed to cite the fact that the biosphere on earth is very thin, and that most of that biosphere is still deadly to humans (i.e. the ocean, the arctic, deserts, high altitudes, depths below the surface). It‘s really just a calculation to determine how much of the earth’s mass can sustain human life versus how much can’t.
As for my other claims: read the peer reviewed paper, ‘Stars in other Universes: Stellar structure with different fundamental constants’ by Dr. Fred C. Adams of the Michigan Center for Theoretical Physics. Assuming the fundamental constants at the Big Bang were randomly set, universes capable of containing stars is roughly 25%. Stars are important because they create the heavy elements are responsible for life.
Also read the peer reviewed paper ‘A universe without weak interactions’ by Harnik, Kribs, and Perez. Findings indicated that a universe without the weak nuclear force, one fo the four fundamental forces, could still contain stars; therefore, being capable of supporting life.
Report Post »THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:03pmMAPROG,
You don’t get it – I am not trying to prove that Humans cannot live in the Universe (literally). No where have I stated that in my responses.
I am saying that the Universe has to be stable (fine-tuned) first – which includes our planet, Earth – then Human life can be possible. We obviously live on Earth, so why would I try and say that it is possible for Humans to live in the Universe itself (outer-space)? We cannot live outside of Earth, without the necessities for life to be stable (fine-tuned).
You are obviously bent on proving something, but I am not sure what that something is. You are just proving to me how complex our Universe really is (knew that to begin with), and how this all could NEVER have happened by chance.
You can try and disprove “Anthropic Coincidences”, but then you would be fighting/arguing against principles of sciences, and laws of physics that define our Universe. And these laws/principles are possible because they were made that way – ever heard of “Intelligent Design”?
I am growing tired of answering the same responses from you; over and over again.
Is it really that hard to provide a source link? You probably would not have accepted my facts/evidence if I had not given “real evidence” – A.K.A, a source links.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 6:07pm@Pontiac – Fine then – Science has proven the bible correct when they went back in time and found, “In The Beginning.” If the bible is correct then there IS a GOD who Created said universe.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 10:25amScriptor:
1. Prove your god exists.
2. Prove no other gods exist other than yours
3. Justify your god.
4. Collect your Nobel prize.
I’m waiting to believe you.
Report Post »Hiswill
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:23amJesus lives in me. I am real so I know He is.
Report Post »Satan loves to blind the minds of unbelievers 2Corn.4:4
DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:07amSo, . . . . Satan’s “blinding” is somehow more powerful than “the holy spirit”? Seems to be the case.
Also, do you understand the circular reasoning of your first sentence?
Report Post »Cincybearcatfan
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:31amNo DEAVONREYE, Satan’s blinding is NOT more powerful than the Holy Spirit. The Spirit chooses whom the Father chooses to reveal it to. Read Romans 8, 9 and most of the Bible.
From Jesus words “Many are called, but few are CHOSEN” (Matthew 22:14). God chooses whom He will to bring Him glory. He chooses whom He will to reveal the truth to.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:31amDEAV….you seem to be very confused, yet very willing to launch into a tirade. “Satan” has no power over God/G-d. Man is what gives “Satan” his power. So when “Satan” blinds someone it‘s with that person’s complicity. God/G-d allows man his own choices. As a leftist you should be quite intimate with pro-choice shouldn’t you? I’m always amused when a godless liberal like yourself attempts to interpret the concepts of the church you usually end up falling flat on your face..and you didn’t disappoint this time either.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:02pmCindy, I am aware of Calvinism. Do you not see the problem with it?
Avengerk, you are wrong. I am not a leftist, nor a proponent for pro choice. Neither am I on “a tirade”. I am also aware of church doctrines, . . . but not all church doctrines are the same [which should be a red flag for you]. When I post, it is with the doctrines of my past 20 years of christian life.
As for “choice”, there cannot be a TRUE choice without a common frame of reference of what a person IS GIVEN as “a choice”. There is not NEARLY enough evidence of your specific god for a person to have enough information for a true choice. There is only the words in a book [other religions have books] and the devout words and beliefs of a religion’s followers [other religions have devout followers].
A person cannot “choose” what there is no evidence of. For example, could you choose to believe in faeries without ample evidence?
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:16pmlol @ how stupid Avenger looks in the span of these comments. “Tirade”? Seriously? What an imbecile.
Report Post »Infidel49
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:44pmHey Schmuck, you have to accept the Holy Spirit, it is called “free will.” Satan on the other hand will just take you and he has. Enjoy yourself now, if you can.
Report Post »Cincybearcatfan
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:45pm@DEAVONREYE It’s CINCY as in Cincinnati not CINDY. Second, no I don’t see a problem with predestination. It’s not Calvinism. John Calvin didn’t come up with it Paul did as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit to write it.
God is glorified with people going to hell as much as he is people going to heaven. If people do not go to hell then God is a liar. If God is a liar then he is not God. God is glorified when his truth revealed and fulfilled.
Christians that try to reason out the mind of God are the biggest issue. Assuming that you know why God said something or what he meant by something makes you a fool. Romans 8:29-30 tells me “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 3And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.”
People don’t like that, but that’s because people like to rebel against God. The whole notion of free will is a lie from the pits of hell and it is rebellious. God chooses.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:54pmDEAV…really? You’re saying a frame of behaviour for Christians is not expressed by the church based on the Gospels and old testament? Good luck with that one champ.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:14pmCincy [thanks for the heads up on your name], . . . I am well aware of what that verse, and other verses say about the topic. But that isn’t relevant. Just because someone in the Bronze Age said something doesn’t make it true just because he claimed a god. It is of little concern to me. Prove these words came directly from a god, then there may be room for debate. Until then, it is just the words from some other man.
Avengerk, you may have misunderstood my comment. There cannot be a choice [for the non-believer] when no evidence is forthcoming . . . and when only the words of a book and those who believe it to be true is given. A person can “choose” to hang out with other christians, and even act the same exact way, . . . give money, sing songs of praise and worship, . . . yet still not be convinced. Many do it . . . .because churches welcome people in, and people are moved by the kindness of others. That doesn’t make the doctrines true! Nor does it give the necessary evidence required to actually choose the deity of the religion. I would say that most people in the christian churches today are christians for what they get out of it [as mentioned on this post].
I can’t do that. As much pain as it was to leave the fellowship of the church, I was feeling hypocritical. Without good reason, I cannot “choose god” without being a liar.
Report Post »Cincybearcatfan
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:51pm@DEAVONREYE I wholeheartedly agree with you. You can NOT choose God. Only God can choose you. Proof of the existence of God for me is as unnecessary as proof that air surrounds me. I experience it in my lungs every second of every day. Without it I would surely die. I will never see it, but I can see the effects of it keeping me healthy, on a cold day with crystallized portions of it becoming visible.
To try to explain this faith to you is like trying to explain what a sneeze feels like to a fish. Not only can a fish NOT sneeze it also does not have the ability to understand me even if it could. Your mind is closed, not of your will (regardless of how much you proclaim it to be). Your mind is closed because of God’s will for it to be. “So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.” (Romans 9:18 ESV) You have been hardened.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:59pmOh I see DEAV so you’re offering that your belief that christian faith is for the most part empty- is based essentially on your own nihilist formulations about the veracity of the bible and what you have determined to be why people attend church in the first place. So in that- you can‘t live with what you perceive is a lie therefore just about everyone else is living that same lie based on your bleak and bitter interpretation of faith and towards christianity and it’s adherents. You’re basically offering the old atheist canard..“religion is a crutch”..or Karl Marx’s “the opium of the people”. I‘m happy to say you couldn’t be more wrong. I came to my faith through reading the texts then seeking out the veracity of them. The New Testament’s historicity is exceptionally good. The only factor I cannot offer anything beyond my faith in is the supernatural aspects of Jesus and the disciples’ time on earth. I don’t really care whether you accept Jesus as Christ or not quite honestly. Just stop trying to tell me how, where and when I should practice my faith by attempting to legislate it into the shadows or shaming it out of existence. Dig?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:10pmAvengerk, you are free to hold whatever beliefs you wish. I would not attempt to end it. I care about the Constitution.
As for the historicity, sure there are places in the bible that are [or were] actual places. So what! Greek mythology mentions literal places. What I cannot be convinced of is the supernatural claims. And for religion, that IS the prime factor.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:12pm[God chooses whom He will to bring Him glory. He chooses whom He will to reveal the truth to.]
Report Post »Sounds like Obama or some progressive government program where winners and losers are picked. Certainly not something worthy of worship.
DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:13pmCincy, . . . according to your post: “Your mind is closed because of God’s will for it to be. “So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.” (Romans 9:18 ESV) You have been hardened”, . . . what do you say about those with “purposefully hardened hearts”, depending upon what your doctrine is for the afterlife of these?
Report Post »Cincybearcatfan
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:28pm@DEAVONREYE I say those purposefully hardened are without hope of salvation and will spend eternity in hell. It is God who chooses those for heaven and God who chooses those for hell. Humanity tries to place itself in the greatest position of importance in all things.
Humanity is ONLY placed in the highest priority when it comes to created things. Humanity is God’s greatest creation and therefore is the highest on earth Lording over all things here. God is higher than man. Just because we are the highest here, does not mean we are the highest in eternal things. For a man to go to hell and burn because God willed it, if it is in the mind of God to be so, then it will be so and without remorse or regret.
Yes, God created some for heaven and some for hell. When Christians come to terms with this, they will spend less time arguing with others and more time evangelizing.
Now you will say, why evangelize if God made some for heaven and some for hell and we have no say. I say I want to glorify my God in all things sharing the Gospel. It is not for their glory and edification, it is for my pleasure to bring God glory. It pleases God for me to proclaim his name, therefore I share the Gospel. Praise God that I am not responsible for souls that are lost. It is His will and His purpose that is being fulfilled, therefore it should be Him that makes that decision.
Report Post »Cincybearcatfan
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:37pm“PONTIAC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:12pm
[God chooses whom He will to bring Him glory. He chooses whom He will to reveal the truth to.]
Sounds like Obama or some progressive government program where winners and losers are picked. Certainly not something worthy of worship.”
Yeah, except God is the sovereign creator of all things. Holy, just, sinless and GOD. Other than that it sounds JUST like that.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 4:12pmSo, Cincy, . . . by this statement, “For a man to go to hell and burn because God willed it, if it is in the mind of God to be so, then it will be so and without remorse or regret.”, . . . then this type of god is the very height of evil and deserves absolutely no “praise” or “worship”. And because no one knows the mind of this type of creature, a person, such as yourself, may be completely assured of your “being chosen”, . . . yet not being so, regardless of feeling you are. Anyone who agrees and worships such a heinous entity is just as morally bankrupt.
Fortunately, this type of god doesn’t exist, so there is no worry about this malevolently grotesque entity.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 5:16pmInfidel49 @ 12:44pm
[Hey Schmuck, you have to accept the Holy Spirit, it is called “free will.”]
Cincybearcatfan @ 12:45pm
[The whole notion of free will is a lie from the pits of hell and it is rebellious. God chooses.]
A synopsis of gods “free will”:
Report Post »“God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish, but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man says this we call him a psychopath and cry out for his imprisonment/execution. When god says the same we call him ‘loving’ and build churches in his honor.” — William C. Easttom II
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 10:41am“Many are called, but few are CHOSEN”
That makes absolutely no sense. Chosen for what? I thought that through Jesus you are saved. If you are called to follow Jesus, why wouldn’t you be chosen?
Supposedly, let’s say your god exists in the first place and it made humans in its own image. If god is a perfect being, it would make no less than a perfect creation. As perfect creation, logically, people should be incapable of doing imperfect things. When I make something, I don’t set it up to fail. If your all-knowing god made an imperfect creation, and knew it was going to fail to begin with, and STILL condemns those who’s only crime is existing the way we were made to begin with, that would mean it’s not a perfect being itself and therefore, unworthy of our praise and worship.
In order to better understand why we think the way we do and why we reject religion, perhaps you should attend the reason rally yourself. There are some people who will be there who can help you shed your magical thinking and start you on the path to realizing your own potential.
Report Post »SaraD
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 6:30amIf hell and and heaven exist where are they? The bible says when the windows of heaven open it rains. Obviously heaven is not directly above us, so where is it? Why isnt it where the bible said? We have scanned the earth and mapped it. There is no hell. If so, the location please.
Report Post »NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:12amThis coalition’s logo is the same as a local heating and air conditioning company. I wonder if the HVAC company could sue them? To be such “freethinkers” you’d think they could come up with a more original and beautiful design. Oh that’s right, they don’t really have much inspiring them because the “freethinkers” are close minded to the wonders and beauty of religion, the divinity of our supreme being and the other many beauties and wonders of our glorious God. They’re more interested in being close minded and hateful towards people who believe in something greater than themselves.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:17am******”…thousands of atheists converge….to celebrate their non-belief through a massive event called the “REASON Rally.”*********
____________________________________________________________________________
Wow! That’s an “Oxy-Moron” if I ever heard of one. How does one have a “NON-Belief -REASON rally”? I can’t even think of a smart alec remark for that one!
Report Post »joe.r.piehole
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:18pmcessna, maybe because “reason” has to do with the process of thinking logically. For example: There is no REASON to believe that a supernatural, all-powerful, all-knowing being exists in the sky.
Report Post »NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:23pmHey Piehole – God doesn’t exist in the sky, He exists in our hearts. Something, it sounds, you don’t have.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:30pmAbout as much reason to believe in the nothing came from something big bang theory that has majically brought all into being. What a lovely thought. Massive explosion and poof ions and ions delivers up a cool little rock with hip self aware thinking sometimes rational beings that can solve problems and discover the universe that just so happen to make through chance of course people appear. Wonder what the odds are of something like that happening? Any idea the odds, mathmatically of course? Seems like you guys have just as much faith as I do…….
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:48pmYes Piehole. First off as the two posters above mentioned you have no clue who/what God is. Also, I find it amazing that you believe a Timber wolf evolved from a dolphin…really? So it lost a blowhole, grew fur and legs…oh and fangs. How about theories that we came from frogs and apes. Miraculously there are no more humans coming from frogs and apes, yet frogs and apes still “coexist”. Interesting, so your theory of evolution says only some evolve and some don’t? Gosh, we can’t even breed into evolution… donkey and horse make a mule yet mule plus mule equals NOTHING! Gosh, at least have the decency to be able to force evolution please. But, yeah your god in the sky should be named as a sandwich as it’s full of Bologna!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 10:44amWe let reason and critical thinking guide our lives rather than a magical belief. That is why it’s called the reason rally.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 10:56amCessna, I hope you don’t actually fly those things. Not only is that an affront to your god as it would have given you wings if it wanted you to fly, but if god is your co-pilot, I hate to think of who might be under your plane when it takes a sharp turn toward the ground.
For someone who uses the products of science, you certainly don’t have much of a grasp on it.
Report Post »Amy
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:55amVisit their Facebook page – Secular Coalition of America. You don’t need to sign in to see their main objective is to tax churches. While you are at it, check out Catholic Charities of America, a tax-exempt entity.
With no tax exemption, charities could not provide for the poor without a heavy, heavy burden.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:55amit’s possible to tax churches and keep religious charities tax-free. I dont see the problem
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:29pmsonick churches themselves do a huge charitable service to the community, marraige counseling, daycare, addiction services etc. this one of the many reasons why they are tax exempt.
Report Post »SaraD
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 6:40amTaxing churches is a great idea. One half to a quarter of the average city has untaxed land. They should be able to write off good deads directly like meals, and clothing for the poor. When they are just having church and collecting tons of money they should pay. People like Benny jinn, the church of Satan, they should pay taxes. How much charity does the church of Satan do? Why not write the good deeds off as a tax exemption. Italy is taxing its churches now.
Report Post »denispaul
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:36amAll i here on this site is alot of blah blah blah.Grow a set an defend your beliefs counter demonstrate.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:35amThis fictitious “war on religion” spin is getting old Blaze. There is no attack on religion. No one is closing down churches and forcing people into the streets. Religion belongs in a church, your personal home or a parochial school. It does not belong in the public forum. When “religion” is talked about on this site, it refers to christianity. If someone wanted to put a pentagram in city hall, everyone would go crazy and call it evil or anti American or what-have-you. I think people here should be more honest when describing freedom of religion and removal of that freedom. You mean christianity. If buddism was removed, you wouldn’t care. Fact is, no one is taking away your religion. The Reason Rally is not occurring to effect a change in your status of freedom, but to offer another opinion that counters your own. It is not a religion as some Blazers claim. Don’t try to use your christian reasoning in a nonfiction world.
Report Post »friendfor truth
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:47amVaman,
Your comments are correct. But the government is specifically shutting down those of the Christian faith while accomodating every other religion. This is unconsitutional and wrong! They should be no respector of any particular religious faith, but they ARE doing this.
Atheism IS a religion if you follow the correct definition of the word religion. It is simply a belief system. They choose to believe that there is no God. That is a belief system.
But anyway, the government is not upholding the freedom of religion when it shuts down one particular faith but accomodates another. No one has a problem with Buddists, Muslims, etc. But if the name Jesus Christ is mentioned at all, people go off the wall and have a fit about it. Why don’t they react that way when Allah is mentioned???
Report Post »friendfor truth
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:53amCorrection to my last comment:
Religion is perfectly fine in a public forum. We have the freedom to do this. If you don’t like it, you can get up and walk out. This includes ALL faiths. I don’t have to attend a buddist or muslim servicem, rally, etc. Neither do they have to attend ones that are linked to my own personal faith. It’s that simple.
Report Post »Cavallo
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:16pmFictitious? You must be living in a cave or being purposefully ignorant. With common stories of Judeo/Christian symbols being removed from public view, eighty year old war memorials being attacked litigiously as well as vandalized, Universities forcing Christian groups to accept non-Christians while other groups are not held to that standard, the Feds forcing religions to pay for things they find morally repugnant, Christmas attacked every year, how can you not see it? You are correct. It is an attack on Christianity because Christians are vastly less likely to resort to violence to defend their religion as some other religious beliefs. The attack focuses also on Christianity because it is the dominant religion in the country. The others they will get around to once Christianity is thoroughly undermined. All this is done mostly because the official religion of communism and leftist fascist oppression is atheism. The Church and God offer something to have faith in other than the almighty State. Marxists cannot abide that.
Report Post »kma
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:38pmWho said Atheism isn’t a religion? It’s godless, but essentially it’s an alternative perspective to exactly the same questions that conventional religion seeks to answer. I read these posts every week detailing why Atheists are an enemy and it’s saddening. And at the same time no one on here is wrong. These people who feel a need to shove science down the throats of believers, are no better than than a muslim extremist forcing “islam” down the throat of the world. I grew up in a Catholic family with conservative beliefs. I do not believe in God, but I was brought up in such a way that allows to me respect that perhaps I may not be right, and perhaps you may not be right. Either way, I just feel like I need to let everyone know that not all Atheists are ignorant, liberal, fascists. The people in these articles make me ill.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:35amBrethren, our preaching will bear its legitimate fruits. If immorality prevails in the land, the fault is ours in a great degree. If there is a decay of conscience, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the public press lacks moral discrimination, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the church is degenerate and worldly, the pulpit is responsible for it. If the world loses its interest in religion, the pulpit is responsible for it. If Satan rules in our halls of legislation, the pulpit is responsible for it. If our politics become so corrupt that the very foundations of our government are ready to fall away, the pulpit is responsible for it. Let us not ignore this fact, my dear brethren; but let us lay it to heart, and be thoroughly awake to our responsibility in respect to the morals of this nation. –Charles G. Finney, December 4, 1873
Hey Christians, stop whining and hiding your head in the sand and live holy by Gods Spirit and Word like people who are really born again! That’s why all this has happened to this nation! Quit trying to get the Republican party to legislate your religion and go out and change this culture back by the power of the Living God!
Report Post »EP46
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:34amDo these people fight against purple marshmallow ailens ? No, becaue they do not believe in purple marshmallow ailens. Therefore, they do believe in God, or they would not be serving in Satan’s army fightiing against God.
Let each of us who believe in God take time on Friday and Saturday to pray for these lost souls and pray for God to lead our Nation.
1st Commandment : Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:05amUmmmm. . . last time I checked, my life isn’t being affected by people who believe in purple marshmellow aliens. Rather than me trying to explain further, please view this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnbXlkNavwo
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:01pmHave you ever heard of the Chewbacca defense? Google it… Because it makes more sense than the jumbled word salad you just served us. Get this straight: if Atheists don’t believe in God, why would they believe in Satan?
Report Post »DoseofReality
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 2:26pmEP – are you really that dense? Religious folk, religious institutions, religious dogma, religious end of days fantasies, foreign policy due to religion affects my life on a very real and daily basis. Purple marshmellows dont….
Report Post »SaraD
Posted on March 25, 2012 at 6:46amThat was the silliest thing I have ever heard.
Report Post »jedi.kep
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:16amMarch of fools. Hey! April 1st is the NEXT WEEKEND. These people are a week early!
Report Post »CLG 4
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:39am16% of the population, and I belive that would also include children also are going to go to Washington to LOBBY our socialist democrates that all of us need no religion. The joke here is that just about all democrates agree with this thought.
Report Post »BackstepAndShift
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:14am@Chem
WHAT A WEAK ARGUMENT! YOU HAVEN’T SAID ONE THING THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
For instance when you say you believe that Religion is man made…. that’s well and fine for you but I believe the Bible which is the word of our king and way of life to many good Christians AND is NOT MAN MADE TO US!
SO HOW ARE YOU THE EXPERT ON MY BELIEFS??
SHOW SOME RESPECT…. TO ALL OF US.. SHOW SOME RESPECT TO YOURSELF AND STOP SAYING THINGS THAT OFFER NOTHING TO SUPPORT YOUR ARGUEMENT MAKING YOU LOOK WEAK!!!
GOD BLESS YOU MY BROTHER.
:)
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:23amNo, I have been showing respect towards other users. Of course being critical of religion many will find that disrespecting. You asked for me to back up the reasons why I’m critical of religion. Here are three links to present my studies on religion.
Report Post »http://www.christianitydisproved.com/
http://www.usbible.com/usbible/
http://faithskeptic.50megs.com/gospels.htm
THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:41amCHAMELEONX,
Your sites provide very nice scientific evidence, and it is an interesting read; however, it can be proven incorrect.
Allow me to use the same strategy by posting some of my own evidence:
WARNING: These links are based on scientific findings and facts through studies, testing, and lots of research. These links will provide evidence of how the Universe could not have been created by chance, and therefor makes any argument about the Universe being “billions of years old” null and void.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/quotes.html
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/designun.html
http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/origins/universe2.htm
http://members.iinet.net.au/~sejones/design.html
And to explain why “17,000 kids die from starvation every day”…
Have you noticed how as Human Beings, we have “Free-Will”? The ability to make decisions/choose for ourselves? We can determine what is right and wrong, and make those decisions because we have “Free-Will”. And God made us in his own image, BUT, he gave us “Free-Will”. He did not want us to become “cookie-cutter” creations. He wanted us to have a choice – to choose “Free-Will”. And if we did not have a choice, or could make those decisions, then we would be without sin (fault). We would be perfect.
Continuing…
THGIC
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:48amCHAMELEONX,
Continued…
With all of that being said, you have an idea of why people make choices, and can choose between right and wrong. Now…this is where it gets interesting.
Children do not have to die; do not have to starve to death; do not have to live in Third-World Countries. If people cared so much, they would be helping those children in any way that they could. And you know something? I constantly hear from various Churches and Christian-affiliated organizations about how they are in those poor countries, saving the lives of Children. They go on mission trips to those countries and do many things to help. Whether it is building houses, hospitals, schools, day-cares, to providing food for the people, to spending time with the locals, to giving them educational opportunities – not just teaching them about God, but providing general education for them/teaching them English – these Christians are doing what God calls all Christians to do. To be there and provide for the less fortunate. And we do these things because we want to help – we care.
Now, explain to me when you would take the time to do such things for those children, or people? Or, is it too convenient for you to sit behind your computer screen, and talk about how bad the world is, and yet, want to do nothing about it?
If I am incorrect is saying so, please correct me.
Report Post »EyeofthePatriot
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:41pm@THGIC
Bravo! Honestly – very well worded and awesome resources. Thank you Sir or Madam for posting.
Report Post »friendfor truth
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:03amSome other thoughts:
We can all assemble peacefully to express our convictions. The purpose of this is to persuade other citizens to reconsider what we are saying. If enough people are persuaded, then they simply take these convictions and persuasions to the ballot box with them on election day, and vote for the representative that will uphold those convictions while serving us in the government.
Unfortunately, government is not upholding our consitutional freedom of religion. Certain religions are being silenced while others are being accomodated. This absolutely UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Muslims, Buddists, Christians, Jews, Atheists, all have the consitutional freedom to practice their religions in our country. BUT DO NOT EXPECT EVERYONE TO BOW DOWN TO YOUR PARTICULAR FAITH! And DO NOT expect the government to cater to your particular faith. You can already practice your beliefs freely, so just do it!
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:52am@Saw: A generic god cannot be defined. The word could mean almost anything within the limits of human imagination. As a deist I believe in a supreme deity and I’m influenced by freemasonry. However people who identify as atheist do not follow a god.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:29amAtheism teaches that man can become god.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:30amNo, if atheism thought anything it will be for people to recognize their humanity. :)
Report Post »NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:05am@Chameleonx
If you can’t realize your humanity from reading the Bible then 1) you obviously haven’t read it or 2) you‘ve read it with your mind already made up that you’re not going to believe it, which means you’ve read just what it says and not THOUGHT one bit about what it says and how it applies to YOU and YOUR life. So much for your concept of freethinking. Please reconsider reading the Bible with an open mind, and an open heart. You‘ll be surprised at what you’ll learn, especially about yourself and what you’re truly contributing to humanity.
@ ACOVENETINBLOOD – Rock on my brother.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:17am@NC1: I have read the bible and the koran with an open mind. Nothing has convinced me more that it is all written by ancient men in the East. Everyone has their interpretation on how read the bible. The way I studied the bible is understand how various people believe in the bible, is there historical evidence for the bible or evidence for biblical characters and stories, etc. Throughout the years I have looked all the evidence for the Abrahamic religions. The reason I say all religion; including the Abrahamic religions, is because of how the bible is written. If their is a particular God as described by religion there would be no mistakes and other evidence to prove that God is all-knowledgeable to give humanity the books of the bible and koran to correct worship God. The links I have included will go over why I disagree with religious text and religion all together.
Report Post »NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:55amBut that’s the problem, you studied the Bible to see how other people believed it and to disprove historical fact. Did you study the Bible to learn of matters of the heart? To learn how to deal with pain, sin and other problems in your own life? (I’m not saying this in a condemning manner as we all have our own problems) Did you study it to learn where joy and happiness comes from? Never mind the realness and actuality of the characters, realize the lessons being taught through the characters, lessons that are still applicable to a human soul today because mankind has always had the same problems since the beginning of time. Then you’ll find the people and events in the Bible to be very real. The Bible IS the greatest gift to humanity, its hard to believe it and hard to follow it because it sets a precedent for us to strive for to make us better. It will tell you in the Bible the lineage of Mohammed (Ishmael) and how that line of people (or race) has been cursed. I will honestly say I haven’t read the Koran entirely but parts I have read seem down right mad to me (especially the treatment of women). In those terms a complete contradiction to the Bible but that’s for another discussion.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:56am@Chameleonz..
@Saw: A generic god cannot be defined. The word could mean almost anything within the limits of human imagination. As a deist I believe in a supreme deity and I’m influenced by freemasonry. However people who identify as atheist do not follow a god.
Report Post »~~~~~~
I’m confused..?
If you believe in a supreme being ..
How can you NOT believe in consequences of your actions ?
If you read the Bible all through the Old Testament ,
we see where God had his people give Blood sacrifices ..
“for atonement” it was done to cover their sins against GOD ..
So he could dwell among them.
The sacrifice was Gods people’s “ best perfect spotless lamb” ..
Fast forward…We have “Jesus The Christ” taking the Place of
“ The Lamb” spotless ,without sin and THE LAST sacrifice.
His blood covers our sin and by doing this we are no longer in need
of doing sacrifices for GOD .
You see The (New and Old )Testament are one ..
They go together.The way I see it ..
There is only one “Author” that could have possibly written the Bible
that would span thousand of years and made it all fit.
And It sure wasn’t SATAN….who I have to assume you believe in .
You do believe in Satan don’t you..?
If there is Good the opposite is Evil ..You cant have one without the other.
And if you believe in some other way ..
Where and when did the origin of EVIL start to exist..?
And how and who defined it..?
chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 10:12am@NC1 and Sawbuck. I can accept that the idea of religion has impacted humanity in various ways. But that is just it. It’s religion. Nothing more nothing less. I do not believe the bible is divine. There is no sin, atonement, etc in my dictionary. As you read my opinion on sin and atonement you can see why religion has no importance in my life. The difference between believers and people are non-believers of particular religions is that we’re secular of the idea that particular religion. I commented that throughout my life I have studied religion and also had faith. I have fond memories of attending services at church and the mosque near my home. I have met people of faith who are crazy and I have met nice respectful people of faith. The only difference is character of the person who I befriended. As a person who looks at the evidence to accept there is non for me to accept to become religious. I just do not have faith to believe in a particular religion and there is no evidence that I will make me believe in religion.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 10:49am@Chameleonz..
Report Post »How about EVIL.. Someone that purposely with presents of mind,
Doing EVIL with intent.
How did it come into being…?
And WHO.. was the first to defined it..?
Do you consider doing evil a mental condition..?
If you consider Evil a mental condition..
Does that mean they didn’t have a choice..?
chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:02amI do not believe in good and evil. I believe in human nature.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:14amHow do you explain… pro- choice in tearing a baby out of the womb (abortion)…?
Report Post »To willingly CHOOSE ..to do this to themselves .
What part of human nature explains this..?
Selfishness..???
NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:14am@CHAMELENOX – You are influenced by freemasonry? Are you a member of a lodge? If so you have to have a belief in God (or in your case a deity, something greater than yourself). If you are influenced by freemasonry you should know that they teach faith, hope and charity. From what I’ve read from your posts you are very lacking in the faith part. Faith is hard my friend and I struggle with it myself. Freemasonry also teaches to use the Bible as a guide to your faith. Seek the truth, this is what freemasonry teaches. It also teaches to be a student in the arts and sciences, as this knowledge comes from our creator. It takes faith to find truth. Religion is not bad. Religion holds people to a standard and ethics. I understand your argument is to get religion out of government and science. If that is done, if the people in our gov‘t don’t hold themselves to a standard or set of ethics then will that not open the door to tyranny? My friend I believe you are seeing that happen right before your eyes in our country today. And also if you are influenced by freemasonry, you should have learned that freemasons are to be a stalwart against tyranny (hence a lot of our founders, famous or not, were freemasons).
Report Post »NC1
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:18am@CHAM You said you do not believe in good or evil, you believe in human nature. I’m sorry but good and evil is what makes human nature. If a human is neither then they are nothing. It would be better to be good than evil but it would be worse to be nothing.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:58pmBut CHAMELTOE…we’ve already tired it your way sport. We got Nazi Germany, Stalin’s Russia, Maoist China, Khmer Rouge…ad nauseum. All staunchly secular regimes that fiercely enforced humanism. Between them they’re responsible for countless hundreds of millions of deaths and incarcerations and oppression of entire populations. China still has it’s gulags in fact. Let me guess…you‘re one of the lefty tools that believes we just haven’t implemented “humanism” properly yet..right?
Report Post »PaxInVeritate
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:49amHow about those of us who do believe unit as one in prayer for the conversion of their souls at 3:00 PM Eastern Time on both Friday and Saturday. There will be more of us than them. Maybe set up a webpage with sign in to tally they effort.
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:44amOkay! Let’s pray for them at 3PM Eastern Standard Time!
The atheists are lost and looking to government to be their god.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 10:59amHI. . . . . I absolutely do NOT see the government as anything close to resembling a god. Our current state is dangerous and if *cough* “president” Obama gets in for a second term, . . . I fear as to what he will do and where this country will go.
Now, as for you all praying? Go ahead. I won’t be at the rally, but by all means, . . . pray for conversions of them. . . . and myself . . . if you think it fruitful. But, when no one feels an urge to convert, . . . don’t assume it is because they are “in rebellion” and “don’t want to be held accountable”. I live my life as good as I can for my own sake. For the sake of argument that YOUR god is actually the real one, he knows exactly what it would take to convince me.
Report Post »Isaiah52021
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:47amI pray to a God, I Believe exist, athiest fight against something they believe isn’t there… So who is the crazy one!
Report Post »friendfor truth
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:40amChameleonx:
You can’t say “Down with Relgion”. Your own choice to be an atheist is a religion in itself. You DO have a faith. You have a faith in the the idea that there is not God. Call it what you want, but anyone’s belief system is a religion unto itself. Look up the definition of :religion” in the dictionary: It says:
“a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects”: (ex: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.)
“the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices”
You do have the freedom to believe or not believe whatever you want. This is America. But at the same time, you DO NOT have the freedom to FORCE this conviction on others. Your right to peacefully assemble is granted to you by our consitution. But do not assemble and think that you can force the government to accomodate your specific convictions. They have already done this for you through our consititution. You already have your personal freedom to believe what you want. As a Christian, I have complete freedom to assemble, pray ANYWHERE in this country. As an atheist, you have complete freedom to assemble and rally ANYWHERE in this country. But don’t expect everyone else to see it your way. I know that I don’t expect others to necessarily see it my way.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:04amAs I mentioned before. Atheism is neither a religion nor having faith that there is no God. People who identify as atheist chose so because they feel there is no evidence for a God of any kind. There is a joke that atheism is to religion like bald is to hair color.
Report Post »JimL
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:55amChameleonx: You have the faith to correspond with who/what/it? It’s a faithful start. Good Speed.
Report Post »selloursouls
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:22am@Chameleonx, atheism is the exact opposite of theism they are both religious belief systems, one utilizes a god or gods to focus their belief structure and the other simply focuses its beliefs on man as the central figure. Atheism is a religion, atheists don’t want people to know that they are forcing their religion on others through government.
A lack of god or gods does not remove the religion label. Clearly, you don’t use reason in all aspects of your life. Religion and ideology are interchangeable. Whether atheist or theist, religion is involved.
Report Post »ChildofJesus
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:33amman satan is really turning up the heat, I can’t remember a group of people acting out on so much hatred..only means our enemy is the one behind it all and knows his time is short.
Report Post »KingCanon
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:31amA fight against something that doesn’t exist…. really? What a deranged mindset!
God is so powerful you folks are scared to death. This is the highest point on
earth where there is absolutely no power in numbers!
MAY GOD BLESS YOU GUYS INTO HIS KINGDOM. AMEN and AMEN and AMEN!
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:29amJust another brick in the foundation being laid for this great utopian society,
Report Post »that is about to be sprung on the American People.
I didn’t know there were that many naive people after all that’s happened in the last few years.. Maybe there just being compliant ?In that case ..
I didn’t know this administration had all these Atheist in their back pocket.
There sure not any “FREE THINKERS” attending .
That would imply they would have thought this through and we know that didn’t happen.
Maybe low IQ – idiot – free thinkers.. That would make more sense
friendfor truth
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:19amThese fools forget that “Separation of Church and State” was intended to keep government OUT of the religious freedoms of the individual citizen. Our country was founded on the principal that each individual has religious freedoms which the government cannot dictate. We broke off from England because their government was trying to force everyone to follow one particular religion/belief. Neither does it have anything to do with the citizens trying to make government religious. If they would just read their history books, they would clearly see that our government was founded on religious principles at its conception. It was the Godly men in government who designed this whole idea of religious freedom. Our government was created with RELIGIOUS FREEDOM in mind. They were NOT forcing any kind of particular faith on any of the citizens. This includes the freedom for any citizen to be an atheist if they so choose. But separation of church and state is NOT about shutting down religion. Even the government has a right to be religious it if it chooses, but simply put it can’t force a particular religion/faith on its citizens. These people have it backwards!
Report Post »dj109
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 3:29pmAbsolutely correct! Couldn’t have said it any better…
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:16amWith Salma Rushdie on their ADVISORY BOARD, they better be watching their backs! (btw – the heading ‘HUNDREDS’ is a bit misleading, only TWO)
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:15amI wonder how many knees would bow if they got there and we had another 9/11 style attack? Athiest are converted when they see their life flashed before their eyes.
My Grandfather was an Athiest, until he fought from the trenches in World War 1..He went on to become a fantastic Preacher. He died at 93 only one hour after delivering a fire and brimstone sermon…He was never sick one day in his life.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:12amWHO pays these 280 members (LOL) to LOBBY anyway? The lefty commies. “They take religion out of EVERYTHING”….. was the first sign….. PRAY.
Report Post »David, the Constitutional Libertarian
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:12amYes, those great secular government and countries of the past were so filled with reason. They reasoned themselves into killing over 150 Million people for their “reason”.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 10:47amNot all “reason” is created equal.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:08amThis is amazing. I wish I could be apart of this rally. Long live reason! Down with religion! That is my motto if I would attended.
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:12am@chameleonx
Report Post »You need help, hope you get it.
kentuckypatriot
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:14amI’ll pray for you
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:17amWhy would any of you need to pray for me? In my opinion prayer doesn’t do nothing for anyone. As someone who is secular I support groups and events like Reason Rally. This is why my comment was aimed in promoting reason compared to religion.
Baddoggy
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:20amWhy don’t you just e a good little Athiest and just not believe? I don’t force you to listen to my religion so why should I be forced to listen to your non religion? You say religion is everywhere? I say there is more non religion than religion I see every day. I dont bother you about that do I? You want me to shut up about religion, well I want you to shut up about my religion. Just go on your merry way.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:24amI would have to have respectfully disagree. As a deist (I’m not an atheist) I see religion all everywhere. Of course I’m always looking for religious people to debate with and understand what their beliefs are in their lives. But the point is if we’re not going to take a stand against religion then who will?
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:25amCHAMELEONX, Bless your pointy little head.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:28amI would say my head is more round than pointy. haha.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:32amCHAM, I’m curious, why can’t you have both reason and religion? You are entitled to the ‘lack of your beliefs’ and the rest of us are entitled to ‘what we believe’. Why is that a problem for athiests?
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:37amIt determines who you ask your question to. The reason I’m critical of religion is that I view it as man-made and religion is in the past. Humanity has no need for faith and superstitious beliefs. There are many, like myself, who critical of religious people who are critical of science. For instance I dislike people who can be critical of evolution and want to promote their religions view of creationism. Everyone has the right to believe what they want in their life; I just do not understand how anyone can still follow man-made religion.
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:39amChameleonx…
I see way way way more secular humanism and outright anti religion even with Churches on every corner. Like I said…go ahead and believe the way you want, I am not stopping you from inviting people to follow you to hell. Why do you want to stop me from inviting people to follow me to heaven?
A stand against religion…If you rewally want to make one, go to Syria and try your protest….You will see that dogma really is…Dogma like yours….
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:47amEveryone comes from different walks of life. As I mentioned I see all religion as man-made. Yes, people are free to believe what they want to believe; however there are many people easily controlled through religion and many religious people are against science, same-sex relationships, etc. There are numerous reasons why people are critical of religion. I have my own reasons as someone will be influenced differently.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:47amEveryone alive is following a GOD..
Report Post »Choose NOW ..The one you will serve…!
In the Game of life ..
THERE IS NO FENCE…JUST FOOLS
chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 7:56am@Sawbuck: A generic god cannot be defined. The word could mean almost anything within the limits of human imagination. As a deist I believe in a supreme deity and I’m influenced by freemasonry. However people who identify as atheist do not follow a god.
Report Post »Wishmich
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:40amI don’t get it. I don‘t really care what you believe in or what you don’t. Why do you care what others believe in? You people have successfully gotten God out of everything public. is that not enough?
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 8:55amWhen religion can get out of science, government, etc. All you have to do is look how religion wants to control public life and why people are critical religion.
Report Post »kentuckypatriot
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:03amYou can be a non believer all you want, but prayer works for me. It got me my job and my husband’s. Trust me, it works.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:05amI would have to respectfully disagree. In my opinion you and your husband looked for work and found work. That’s elbow grease. haha.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:19am@Grandmaof5:
Most Atheists have the concept of Man being their own superior being; in this case, it is the ideology of the SELF, in which they, knowingly or not, make themselves into their own god image. It is possible to have both faith and reason in one.
Remember the story of the one apostle who questioned if anything of value could come up out of Galelee? Jesus response was “there is a man w/o guile.”
Reason was used by the apostle to question with boldness the validity of the claims about Jesus; and then he went to see and hear for himself…thus bringing about the development of faith.
Many Atheists will argue that their non belief of God is the denial of religion or faith; yet the very fact is in their denial, they show the faith of their chosen religion – SELF.
Report Post »chameleonx
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 9:28amI would have to respectfully disagree. People who are critical of the concept of God and chose to believe in themselves are not religious. “Atheism is, in a broad sense, the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Most inclusively, atheism is simply the absence of belief that any deities exist. Atheism is contrasted with theism, which in its most general form is the belief that at least one deity exists.”
“Religion is a collection of cultural systems, belief systems, and worldviews that establishes symbols that relate humanity to spirituality and, sometimes, to moral values. Many religions have narratives, symbols, traditions and sacred histories that are intended to give meaning to life or to explain the origin of life or the universe. They tend to derive morality, ethics, religious laws or a preferred lifestyle from their ideas about the cosmos and human nature.”
Here are two excerpts from Wikipedia on atheism and religion. Here you see how atheism is relating more to a person opinion than religion. Even myself as a deist I’m not religious. People like myself who study science and come to accept evolution or the big bang doesn’t make us religious. We’re just people trying to understand life. To make life better for all humanity.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 11:45am@Cham
“When religion can get out of science, government, etc. All you have to do is look how religion wants to control public life and why people are critical religion.”
Isn’t this implicitly impossible? To have religion completely out of government, for example, would mean that people could note vote their consciences, as many times religious folks vote based on what their faith teaches them. I can understand not endorsing or promoting religion (which is already pretty much the status quo), but I don’t see how you can think religion can ever be out of government so long as voters still vote based on their faith.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 12:51pmCHAMELTOE..I always find it amusing when a self professed “enlightened secularist” (like yourself) immediately launches into slabs of denigrations and condemnations of the supposed “ignorance” of religious people- while displaying a complete bankruptcy of an acceptable level of written and communication skills himself. Reading your posts is like walking through a minefield of ignorance and torture of the English language. In fact the question begs to be asked….is English your first language? If it is then you have some explaining to do.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on March 21, 2012 at 1:10pmCHAMELTOE…Atheism has indeed now become a religion. It has it’s own preachers and bibles(Richard Dawkins). It has it’s own orthodoxy, it’s own apostasy, it’s own belief system. You yourself gleefully expressed a desire to join the atheist pilgrimage this article is saying will take place over the weekend. Only yesterday a story on the blaze appeared whereby a group of transvestites (atheists) put together a video to attempt to mock and damage the Chick Fil A food franchise because of it’s christian ownership. Clearly the gospel of atheism is the only thing that must be preached for these atheists..no one else can exist. You’ve presented all of it here albeit unconciously at times. Your “deist” banalities are merely a veneer for you to hide behind. You’re not very convincing.
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