Politics
Huntsman Calls Perry-Backing Pastor Who Criticized Mormonism a ‘Moron’ and Bizarrely Joe Scarborough Twists That to Attack Beck’s Viewers
- Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:57am by
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Comments (318)
Cosmos102
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:36amNews Alert: MSNBC reporters love John Huntsman! How is that as a reason not to vote for that disgusting RINO.
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:50amJoe and Keith Olberman wear womans underware……Mika wears boxers.
Report Post »JimCDew
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:44amNote: Glenn Beck is a MORMON.
Report Post »Note: Scarborough drank the Kool-aid and now he’s not even a RINO, he’s morphed into a socialist.
gramma b
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:46amI can’t stand Huntsman. And Huntsman is lukewarm about his own Mormonism. But, I’ll admit I laughed out loud when he referred to Jeffress as “some moron.” Huntsman was certainly right about that. I’ll never forget one Dr. Laura show in which she was talking about something the Mormons had done in a positive light. Someone with Jeffress’ views called up to set her straight about Mormons. After the caller admitted that Mormons look to Christ as their Savior, the caller then went ahead with the usual spiel as to why Mormons are, nevertheless, not Christian. Dr. Laura said, “That’s ridiculous,” and ended the call. Another laugh out loud moment.
Report Post »JRook
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:52amSo I finally understand what a RHINO is…. an intelligent, honestly and universally truthful person. A Republican who has actually taken the time to think through some issues and undertake solid, defensible positions. Given all the politicians and people who take positions blindly based on ideology and ignorance ad then defend those positions by either lying or attacking the other position.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:14amGram,
Report Post »Christian theology and Mormon theology are not the same. Christianity is monotheistic religion and Mormonism is a polytheistic. Mormonism denies the trinity. These are some of the issues that differentiates denominations from christian cults. Joseph Smith believes that God resides on the planet or star Kolob. There is no biblical justification for that at all. The statement that Mormonism is a cult is an accurate statement.
ashestoashes
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:20amRick Perry grew up in the Methodist church who stands with the Palestinians against Israel.
Report Post »KStret
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:23amGram,
Report Post »PS. For some reason criticism over church doctrine is conflated to mean that the members of the church are bad people. That is not what I am saying. I have met Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses that are the nicest people in the world. However, just because you are a nice person and you do good works doesn’t mean that the church doctrine is correct.
Faith1029
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:39amA Presidential Candidate calling a pastor a Moron. How classy. It is very important to me if the Presidential Candidate is a true Christian. His/her beliefs would effect how he/she would govern our nation and if he/she is not a true Christian, then who is he/she really serving/worshiping? I agree with the Pastor and applaud him for taking a stand.
For info on LDS read Fast Facts on Mormonism by John Ankerberg & John Weldon. The authors expose erroneous notions of Mormonism involving:
- False Prophecies of Smith, Young, and False Apostles
Report Post »- Baptism of the Dead
- The origins of the Mormon religion
- The Nature of the Mormon god
- The Bible and Mormonism
- Men becoming gods and women goddesses
- Spirit Children
- The Book of Mormon Numerous errors
- Mormonism’s view of the Priesthood, Salvation, and the Church
- and other research
windwalker
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:00pmKSTRET – First off the Trinity doctrine is not biblical… I am sure you are nice also but it does not mean your doctrine is correct. Secondly Mormon’s are nice because they follow the Prince of Niceness Jesus Christ. By their fruits ye shall know them.
FAITH1029 – You are going to the wrong source to find the truth about the Mormons. Go to mormon.org for our official beliefs and go to fairlds.org for detailed info about many topics that our not official doctrine but clear up many anti-mormon topics. You can go to these websites if you actually care to know the truth but it you want to keep believing your totally wrong views then it will do you know good.
On a side note in your list about the Book of Mormon Numerous errors if we apply the same reasoning then the Bible fails miserable as it has a ton of errors. I totally believe in the Bible and ready it pretty much every day but I know it’s not without flaws.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:13pm@ JimCDew
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:44am
Note: Glenn Beck is a MORMON.
Report Post »Note: Scarborough drank the Kool-aid and now he’s not even a RINO, he’s morphed into a socialist.
———————————————————————————————————————————————
When was Scarborough ever anything BUT a socialist?
Renita
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:46pmHey, I’ll go with that. There are many of us out here who have not lost our minds, or the ability to put two and two together.
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:53pmWINDWALKER: The Bible is not full of errors. The Bible is God breathed. God cannot lie. It is deception to believe otherwise.
Regarding the Trinity:
The Father sends the Son. (Galatians 4:4; 1 John 4:14)
Report Post »The Father sends the Holy Spirit. (John 14:26; Galatians 4:6)
The Father loves the Son and the Son loves the Father. (John 3:35;
5:20; 14:31)
The Father and Son glorify each other. (John 17:1,4,5)
The Holy Spirit glorifies the Son. (John 16:14)
Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:24pmI encourage you all to get away from this deciding who is a “cult” and who is not a “cult” stuff. It is hateful and rude. I’m not Mormon nor am I a “Trinity” doctrine follower. Love your neighbor not insult him….Remember?
@Faith1029
Define “Trinity” as you know it if you would please. Those verses you posted show “Trinity” is not true in the essence “Trinity” of ONE God as taught by the world Church.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:41pmNowhere in the books of the Bible does it say that the canon of scripture is closed. Many will refer to the last lines of Revelation to claim that the book cannot be added to. Since the Bible didn’t exist at the time of the writing of the Revelation of John, it couldn’t refer to the Bible as a whole. The Revelation remained a disputed book for two centuries after John penned it. Thus the commandment that it should not be added to must refer to that particular scroll which John wrote. We should understand that most scholars believe that John himself “added to” the Bible, because it is commonly believed that he wrote Revelation before the Gospel of John. The Gospel of John came AFTER the book of Revelation in the chronological sequence of Bible texts. The apostle John told us that “…there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one…that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written.”
Report Post »A similar interdiction against adding to God’s word appears in Deuteronomy. Following the logic of those who say the Bible can‘t be added to because of John’s statement, we must consider tossing anything that comes after Moses and Deuteronomy. Man’s rejection of further revelation is an attempt to “mute” God and deny that he has power to reveal anything new or essential to mankind. It defends the status quo, having a “form of godliness” but denies the power thereof. Since the Bible itself doesn’t claim to
gramma b
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:56pmIt’s always seemed odd to me that those who would label Mormons non-Christian choose the Nicene Creed as their doctrinal sine qua non. These are the same people who say that nothing extra-Biblical can be allowed, yet the Nicean Creed is extra-Biblical. And, the very fact that a Council of Nicea was convened is proof that existing writings did not make clear whether God is one acting as three or three acting as one. That had to be hashed out, and the explanation cobbled together is so head-spinning that it is considered one of the official “mysteries.”
Furthermore, the Trinitarians’ favorite passage allegedly supporting their view is the Johannine Comma, 1 John 5:7, which everyone now acknowledges was added by a monk hundreds of years after Christ. Among other things, we Mormons point to Jesus’ Intercessory Prayer in John 17, in which Jesus makes clear the nature of the “oneness” of Himself and the Father, and prays that his entire church will have the same “oneness.” We also don’t believe that Jesus was being a ventriloquist when he was baptized, and the voice of God the Father came from Heaven saying “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:32pm“It’s always seemed odd to me that those who would label Mormons non-Christian choose the Nicene Creed as their doctrinal sine qua non.”
no its rather simple, we use the bible…the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God…and there is ONE GOD….how hard is this?
you mormons are not christians….you’re polytheists….with a salvation of works….
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:34pm[KStret
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:14am
Gram,
Christian theology and Mormon theology are not the same. Christianity is monotheistic religion and Mormonism is a polytheistic.]
Yes, mono, as in THREE, God the Father, God Christ, and God the Holy Ghost. One. Oh yeah, three in one, but still one. Why one and not three? Oh well, um, uh, that is one of those great mysteries of God.
Cough, BULLSHT, cough.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:46pm“Cough, BULLSHT, cough.”
you mormons are foul-mouthed too…
by their fruits you shall know them….
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:50pmEvangelicals for the most part believe in salvation of works. The key difference is that their particular work is a fairly small one. They mouth their belief in a name, then they are saved. It is one of the more potent lies of Satan to believe that this is what your after life is dependent upon.
Christ taught otherwise, starting with the need to keeps all of God’s commandments, then adding the need for baptism by water and by fire (spirit), and then finishing up with the generic statement that no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven.
There is a general confusion amongst evangelicals about the universal gift of salvation given to all, and the concept of being rewarded according to your works, if they be good then eternal life, if bad, then eternal damnation.
The most boastful group of people is your typical evangelical that is convinced that he is “saved” but that somebody else is not. Ask these sort why they are saved. It always boils down to something that they said they did, even though what they did rarely amounts to much of anything special.
Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Romans 8: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified togeth
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:53pm[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:46pm
“Cough, BULLSHT, cough.”
you mormons are foul-mouthed too…
by their fruits you shall know them….]
Thankfully we are not judged by our works, eh Joe1234, you fruitloop.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:57pm“Thankfully we are not judged by our works, eh Joe1234, you fruitloop.”
not for salvation no….but for your rewards or punishments…
but since the mormon jesus is mythical and cannot save……
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:58pm“Christ taught otherwise, starting with the need to keeps all of God’s commandments,”
so which works, and how many of each do we have to do to be saved? and what happens if we don’t do one of them??????
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:59pmoh and KM you’re in trouble…given your fascination with my backside…
1 corinthinas 6:
Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:08pmOKIE FROM MUSKOGEE:
The word Trinity cannot be found in the Bible, but the truth of it can. While there’s only one God, the Godhead consists of three distinct persons – the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. All are equally omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, eternal, and unchanging, but each one has unique functions.
Scripture shows how each member of the Trinity fulfills His specific role, and it also reveals how those three roles interrelate. In simple terms: The Father creates a plan, Jesus Christ implements the plan, and the Holy Spirit administers the plan.
The way of redemption showcases these roles in a clear manner. The Father designed and organized how mankind would be redeemed (Galatians 4:4-5). He set into motion a complex set of events, actions, and prophecies which culminated in the life and death of a Savior. The Son carried out the plan (John 6:37-38). He followed the Father’s instructions to come to earth, even though that meant He would have to die. The Holy Spirit sees to it that every person feels a call toward God’s saving grace (John 14:26, 16:8; Romans 1:19-20). Furthermore, He transforms the lives and hearts of those who receive salvation through Jesus Christ.
The Father, Son, and Spirit are equal in their divine attributes. Yet each relates to mankind in a different way because He has a specific role. It’s very important to understand this distinction: We do not have three gods; we have one God in three persons functioning uniquely and pe
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:16pm[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:58pm
“Christ taught otherwise, starting with the need to keeps all of God’s commandments,”
so which works, and how many of each do we have to do to be saved? and what happens if we don’t do one of them??????]
As was explained to your tiny bigoted mind earlier, salvation is freely given from God and Christ to all of mankind. It involves the atonement and conquering the sting of death. This gift is universal. Unless you are an evangelical. In which case it is a gift you specially garnered, either by wording something about Christ and or being randomly chosen by Christ (another godly mystery no doubt)
Entry into the kingdom of heaven and eternal life however is clearly based on your works, your fruits and what you generally do.
If you do good, you inherit eternal life, if you do evil, you inherit eternal damnation.
The judge of who is worthy and who is not is Christ. His standard of judgment is the same for everyone and will involve what we both do and the inner works of our own hearts, so that his judgment will be fair. He is not a respecter of persons and therefore he will apply the same standard of measurement to everyone.
Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, u
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:23pmAre you going to Scarborough Fair?
Nimrod Joe has been nibbling on the loco weed again.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:26pmLIke I said, the trinity is a mass of confusion. The truth is indeed found in the New Testament. There are three individuals and all are referred to as Gods. The reason for the confusion is some simple-minded understanding of what it means to be one.
To a trinitarian, their simple minds have assumed that it is ok to have three in one as long as you end up with the word one in the end. This satifies their simple minds to have three and one and the same time. It is a trick of mental self-deception to give them the warm fuzzies in their confused state.
The truth however does not require mental self-deception tricks. The truth is that there is only one form of God, however more than one individual can meet that description. God, and any number of his children can be Gods. However, since there is one truth, then there is only one God, in the sense of no matter how many generations you go back, the truths they teach are always the same, always eternal, and can be relied upon.
Jesus explained this idea of oneness in this scripture section here … John 17
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be mad
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:52pmKMICHAELS: The Bible does not teach that if you do good, you will inherit eternal life and if you do evil, you inherit damnation. What is does teach is salvation by trusting in Jesus Christ alone and not good works. If salvation came by good works, Jesus Christ would not have had to come to die on the cross for us. It would have been in vain. Good works do not save you. Faith and trust in Christ does. If you are truly saved you will show evidence of your faith and will want to do good as a result of that faith.
Ephesians 2:8,9:
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not as a result of works, that no one should boast.”
Grace is God’s unmerited favor given to sinners who don’t deserve it.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:12pm[Faith1029
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:52pm
KMICHAELS: The Bible does not teach that if you do good, you will inherit eternal life and if you do evil, you inherit damnation.]
Apparently Faith1029 is dead wrong. But he has much company …
John 5:
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Matthew 25:
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Report Post »gramma b
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:23pm“[F]aith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou has faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thous believes that there is one God; thou does well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness; and he was called the Friend of God. Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers and had sent them out another way? For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. — James 2:17-26
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:36pm@Faith
So you are saying there is ONE God divided into 3rds?
Everything you just said confirms they are not ONE in the same but are different with the same goal. You debunk your “Trinity”.
If “Trinity” is not found in the Bible, do not use it, for it is man made and you are adding to as suggested we shouldn’t.
The Bible speaks of God, Jesus, and the Spirit. 3 distinct beings as you explained in which each can not do the others job. “Trinity” God 3 different ways is ONE God performing 3 functions. One God performing each 1/3′s duties. Basically, the ONE God is performing all 3 powers. But you said they couldn’t do the others job……
If God, Jesus, and Spirit is all ONE why can’t we just worship God and not Jesus and thru the Spirit? For worship of God would be worshipping all if they are the same, right?
“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” 1 John 5:7
Why do all 3 need to be in Heaven if they are only ONE and are only different for us on Earth? 3 beings in one accord.
“Trinity” is man made and false. It has more in common with false religion around the World of “ONE God” as taught in Islam, Judaism, Paganism, and Satanism. All teach ONE God. Have a great day!
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:06pmKMICHAELS, regarding the Trinity said, “The truth however does not require mental self-deception tricks. The truth is that there is only one form of God, however more than one individual can meet that description.”
LOL! The old Modalist heresy. Simple minds don’t know any better better when they foist this as orthodoxy. Of course, if they were truly learned, they would know better. Cutting oneself off from historic Christianity, in favor of the baloney from Moroni, we should expect such numb-skullery.
Report Post »JasonFreelance13
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:27pm+1 for avoiding MSNBC
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:13pmWSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:06pm
LOL! The old Modalist heresy. Simple minds don’t know any better better when they foist this as orthodoxy. Of course, if they were truly learned, they would know better.]
Here is historic Christianity’s view of the one-ness of God from the source Christ, Jesus …
John 17:
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast bloved them, as thou hast loved me.
Now here is idiot WSGAC’s version of the trinity that came hundreds of years later than the simple truth that Christ spoke above. “Well, we have three entities but they are one God. You see, through this big ole mysterious thing that God did, we have three Gods, but we will say for the sake of argument that we only have one God. That way, if ever we argue about it, we can say we believe in just one God, you know, so we can be considered normal Christians.
To this mass confusion of Trinitarians I say, bah, hogwash, BS, no way. You twist the scriptures to your own condemnation.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:20pm“Entry into the kingdom of heaven and eternal life however is clearly based on your works, your fruits and what you generally do.
If you do good, you inherit eternal life, if you do evil, you inherit eternal damnation.
”
this is just delusional…if you are saved, you have eternal life…and you are in heaven….else you’re in hell…
oh I notice you didn’t have the guts to list the works, and how many of each are required for you so-called ‘exaltation’
you mormons are deceivers…and you really try to twist your way out of it when confronted with the truth…its really pathetic….grow a pair.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:37pm[JOE1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:20pm
this is just delusional…if you are saved, you have eternal life…and you are in heaven….else you’re in hell…]
Congratulations. You have gone full circle and learned absolutely nothing. I posted scriptures above that explain clearly that your entry into heaven is based upon your works. As I have said all along, you have a screwed up interpretation of what “salvation” is so it leads you to some pretty confusing mental issues as to how the gospel of grace, works, faith and judgement can fit together. But that is understandable, since you show the intellect of a pissant with head trauma.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:47pm“I posted scriptures above that explain clearly that your entry into heaven is based upon your works.”
hey gomer, your scriptures don’t say what you think they say….but you’re too stupid and too much of a deceiver to ever admit it.
tell me are there any mormons who aren’t lying trash like you?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:49pm“posted scriptures above that explain clearly that your entry into heaven is based upon your works.”
and you still haven’t told me how many works, and what works are required…
its rather obvious you’re too stupid to even understand the question….
you know sometimes I feel guilty…making you look so stupid so easily….its like I’m picking on the mentally deficient….
but then I don’t have to post anything with every post you make yourself look like a bigger dumbass!!
at least you’re good for few laughs…I enjoy pulling your chain….I ring the bell…and you drool….loser.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:52pmRevelation 20:12
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
Matthew 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The scriptures clearly and repeatedly teach that entry into eternal life, heaven, resurrection of life, or whatever you want to call it is dependent upon your works, deeds, fruits, or whatever you want to call them.
So obviously the salvation that you receive through grace is different from entry into the kingdom of heaven. So what is salvation? Being saved from the sting of death, and given another chance to accept Christ along with his commandments and his conditions.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:56pmJoe1234 is running rings around himself and is looking like a sad pathetic little little man. Oh well, His type of bigotry always ends up poorly. Thank goodness he will be saved regardless of his works, his acts, his deeds, his fruits and those things that are written in the book of life. At least, so he thinks.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:58pmuh gomer…how stupid are you? rewards and punishments have nothing to do with whether you are saved or not…..I mean you keep lying about scripture..you say we have to do works…but you can’t list the works…or how many of each we need to do…you are a deceiver…
Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”
Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
Gal.3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”
Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:01pm” Being saved from the sting of death, and given another chance to accept Christ along with his commandments and his conditions.”
another clear lie….
Hebrews 9: 27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment,
no second chance after you die…..
oh and this is the work of a true child of God…
“This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”–John 6:29
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:02pm“Joe1234 is running rings around himself and is looking like a sad pathetic little little man.”
you”re too stupid to realize how stupid I make you look…LOL
its like taking candy from a baby…..I do feel sorry for you though….you must be in a great deal of pain..such stupidity has to hurt!!!!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:08pmso KM where do you get this lie about being given a second chance after you die??
is it from that demon MORONi?
or that false prophet smith?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:14pm[JOE1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:01pm
” Being saved from the sting of death, and given another chance to accept Christ along with his commandments and his conditions.”
another clear lie….
Hebrews 9: 27 And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment,]
Corinthians 15:
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye astedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.
A few points, first point, nobody says that you die physically twice. However there is such a thing as spiritual death, where you are cast out. This is also known amongst spiritual scholars as the second death, even though there still remains one physical death, at issue is where you go after you die. So to avoid the second death, eternal damnation, you must do the work of the lord, so noted above, and then the atonement will be of full effect in your life, then you gain eternal life, based, as the scriptures state, on your works, deeds, fruits, etc.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:23pm[JOE1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:08pm
so KM where do you get this lie about being given a second chance after you die??]
Joe1234 does come across as an overly regimented prck at times, does he not? That part is pretty obvious. First off, I never mentioned second chance. I mentioned Christ overcoming the sting of death, which I showed scriptures to above. As to how many chances we get, it depends on what you call a chance. if you die at age one month, is your chance over? If so, Joe you are a heartless little delusional dweeb. How about if you are in darkest Africa, China, Japan, or wherever and never once heard the name Christ in your life? Does that constitute their chance? No need to answer Joe, since you are such a clueless little twit, the true answer will escape you. In any case, Christ’s judgement will be just, and if he has to organize teaching in the next life or provide some other method to be given a fair chance, and whether that fair chance involves one year or one million years, the Lord will make sure that each of his creations receive a fair “chance”.
And Joe1234 can blow it out his unfair behind.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:28pm“Corinthians 15:”
has nothing to do with the subject we are talking about…you said people get two chances…this is a clear lie. again you have to try to mislead, misdirect and deceive.
you have proven that mormons are deceivers.
“noted above, and then the atonement will be of full effect in your life, then you gain eternal life, based, as the scriptures state, on your works, deeds, fruits, etc.”
all you can do is spew talking points…you sound like a democrat parrot.
the scripture doesn’t state that…as I’ve shown…but back to the second chance…
“Being saved from the sting of death, and given another chance to accept Christ along with his commandments and his conditions.””
nothing you posted indicates where you got this LIE from…and you cannot support your lie…no surprise…all you can do is try to deceive.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:33pm“Joe1234 does come across as an overly regimented prck at times, does he not? ”
first you’re thinking about my behind..and now my prck…you mormons are sick twisted little perverted dogs….so much for your ‘good works’ LOL
“. First off, I never mentioned second chance”
I mean how brazen a liar are you?? this is what you said..
“Being saved from the sting of death, and given another chance to accept Christ along with his commandments and his conditions.”
another chance…thats a second chance gomer….duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
thats your mormon ‘general salvation’ another lie.
“. In any case, Christ’s judgement will be just, and if he has to organize teaching in the next life or provide some other method to be given a fair chance,”
a clear lie…it is appointed for men to die ONCE then comes the judgement…nothing about another chance…
“And Joe1234 can blow it out his unfair behind.”
again with your fixation on my behind…sounds like your false god is gay!! LOL
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:46pmKMICHAELS said, “Now here is idiot WSGAC’s version of the trinity that came hundreds of years later than the simple truth that Christ spoke above. Well, we have three entities but they are one God.”
So then tell us smart guy, do you subscribe to that modalist nonsense – Jesus is the Father, is the Son, is the Holy Spirit?
And you truly are uninformed if you believe the trinitarian formula came hundreds of years after Christ. It was Arius who challenged the belief of the church. You know, Arius, that reprobate not unlike Joseph Smith and his baloney Moroni? Arius’s famous dictum, “There was a time when the Son was not.” Do you subscribe to this?
And as far as your quote from John, perhaps a little reading from John of Damascus might help as a corrective to your Mormon nonsense. Indeed, stay away from the Moroni baloney, and stick to the apostolic faith. And do a little reading while you’re at it.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:13pm[WSGAC
So then tell us smart guy, do you subscribe to that modalist nonsense – Jesus is the Father, is the Son, is the Holy Spirit?]
I posted what I subscribe to as to what one-ness means, nimrod. Jesus spells it out in clear language so that any truth seeker would understand. Jesus prayed to God the Father on behalf of millions of his followers (thousands at the time, millions in the future) that they all, all millions of them, could be one with Christ as (in the same manner) as Christ is one with God the Father. Now which part of simple english do you not understand? Your entire trinitarian bullsht and the councils (aprx 300 years after Christ) had to do with reconciling the word ONE. This all happened because you morons got caught up in the mistaken idea that God could not create children that cold become like him.
Jesus understood the child of God concept quite well. Why can’t you?
And you truly are uninformed if you believe the trinitarian formula came hundreds of years after Christ. It was Arius who challenged the belief of the church. You know, Arius, that reprobate not unlike Joseph Smith and his baloney Moroni? Arius’s famous dictum, “There was a time when the Son was not.” Do you subscribe to this?
And as far as your quote from John, perhaps a little reading from John of Damascus might help as a corrective to your Mormon nonsense. Indeed, stay away from the Moroni baloney, and stick to the apostolic faith. And do a little reading while
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:18pmSorry, accidentally left some of WSGAC’s crap stuck at the bottom of my last post above …
[WSGAC
So then tell us smart guy, do you subscribe to that modalist nonsense – Jesus is the Father, is the Son, is the Holy Spirit?]
I posted what I subscribe to as to what one-ness means, nimrod. Jesus spells it out in clear language so that any truth seeker would understand. Jesus prayed to God the Father on behalf of millions of his followers (thousands at the time, millions in the future) that they all, all millions of them, could be one with Christ as (in the same manner) as Christ is one with God the Father. Now which part of simple english do you not understand? Your entire trinitarian bullsht and the councils (aprx 300 years after Christ) had to do with reconciling the word ONE. This all happened because you morons got caught up in the mistaken idea that God could not create children that cold become like him.
Jesus understood the children of God concept quite well. Why can’t you?
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:36pmKMICHAELS, so how do you define “oneness” then? The OT proclaims “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Clearly the NT speaks of the three – Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but also speaks of One God and Father of us all (Ephesians 4:6), One Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 8:6), and One Spirit (1 Cor. 12:9, Ephesians 2:18).
Trinity is the name given to what is perfectly biblical. Three persons, all of which are identified as God. (Helpful Hint: the title “Lord”, given to Christ, was used only for God. This would indicate something, no?) So how do we speak of the three and at the same time speak of the One God?
Yes, we become children of God…by adoption. There is a difference between the Logos and sarx, but I’m probably talking above you now.
So answer the question I asked. Do you subscribe to what Arius believed, namely that the Son is a creature?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 1:09pm[WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:36pm
KMICHAELS, so how do you define “oneness” then? The OT proclaims “Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.” Clearly the NT speaks of the three – Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but also speaks of One God and Father of us all (Ephesians 4:6), One Lord Jesus Christ (1 Cor. 8:6), and One Spirit (1 Cor. 12:9, Ephesians 2:18).
Trinity is the name given to what is perfectly biblical. Three persons, all of which are identified as God. (Helpful Hint: the title “Lord”, given to Christ, was used only for God. This would indicate something, no?) So how do we speak of the three and at the same time speak of the One God?
Yes, we become children of God…by adoption. There is a difference between the Logos and sarx, but I’m probably talking above you now.
So answer the question I asked. Do you subscribe to what Arius believed, namely that the Son is a creature?]
Exactly your problem. You do not even try to understand. I answered what I meant by oneness multiple times. In answer to your question, which wreaks of straining at gnats and swallowing camels, why does it matter to you if Christ was once “created” or not? What is the significance to your mind? Scientifically all matter is eternal. It is neither created nor destroyed. This is a foundational precept of science. Matter can be transformed into energy and energy converted back into matter. This process can go on literally forever. …
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 1:18pmContinuing the “created” answer …
Therefore, since it is impossible to either create matter and or destroy matter, what is all the fuss over whether Jesus was once “created”? Here is my opinion. Small minded people like Joe1234, the Jewish leaders of Christ’s day, WSGAC, etc, enjoy straining at gnats and swallowing camels. In other words they get caught up in semantics, word games, etc, all the while missing the more meaningful matters of the gospel.
The trinity was invented by similar small minded people, to answer their insignificant question as to whether you needed to convulse your mind into strange and bizarre questions as to how to say that there are three Gods when you are delluded into thinking that there must be only one physical God.
God condemened the concept of polytheism because it taught that there were multiple truths, instead of one eternal truth. God could care less whether or not there were one God or an infinite number of Gods as long as each and every God were truly God, meaning that they held the same gospel principals and dispensed the same eternal truths.
So we have the New Testament, showing that Christ is God, his Father is God and the Holy Ghost is God. Yet they were one in purpose. In that sense, one God. And Christ prayed for his millions of followers that they would be ONE WITH HIM as HE IS ONE WITH GOD.
This only becomes a mystery and hard to understand if you are deluded by the false idea that there has to be one p
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 1:24pmContinuing …
God has declared his children to be joint heirs with Christ. Christ has prayed that his millions of followers would be one with him in the same way that he is one with God the Father. God’s own words refer to his children as Gods, as sons and daughters of God.
However, in one sense, and one sense only, they are all one, in that they have adopted one truth, one gosple, one way of living. That is God’s way.
This idiotic childish idea that you must get caught up as to whether there is one physical God or infiinte physical Gods is a totally pointless area of concern. It simply does not matter. If God our heavenly Father agrees with God Christ one hundred percent, then why should any of his infinite chilldren care how many fit this same pattern?
God is referred to as the God of Gods. That is exactly what he is. Literally, he is the father of an infinite number of Godly offspring. He calls them Gods. He calls them sons and daughters of God. He calls them joint heirs with Christ. He says that they shall be glorified together. These are his words. Believe it or not. But these words are all found in the Christian scriptures.
The fact that some are too dumb and childish to understand the basic relationship of Father and child, that is your own hard hearts and dead minds working on you. That is your own problem. Not mine.
Report Post »Liberty555
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 7:05pmMormons serve in the miltary, boy scouts, feed the poor and make great neighbors. We all like Beck, and Romney is okay (Conservative on most issues) nobody is perfect. I will vote for him in a minute over Obama.
Yet the LDS crowd needs to repent of angry little Joe Smith’s attack on Christians. He started the whole thing as a attack on Christians. Beginning by saying every church and Christian was wrong and evil. Declaring that only he and his parents were true believers.
Keep the “Later Day Saints” title. It doesn’t sound so bad. Smith borrowed that phrase from the Catholics anyway. Reject and Repent of Smith’s teaching. You have the Bible. You don’t need any mans writings. Nobody does. Jesus is the answer.
Again, Beck and Romney are pretty good guys.
Huntsman is kind of a clown in public, but I hear a nice guy in private. His mom should keep him away from microphones
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:35amIt could be a lot worse. Scarborough could still be in Congress morphing into a RINO.
IMO Scarborough is bought & paid for.
Report Post »Jinglebob
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:21amWho cares about Joe “Coffee” he is yesterdays sour grounds.
Report Post »DanWesson455
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:38pmWhat a stupid twit, DIP WAD. Beck’s viewers, listeners all know he is a Mormon for his wife was and got him to convert. Why doesn’t he get his facts right. I doubt Beck’s listeners are bothered by Mormonism one way or another.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:45pmWe often assume that the Bible is the common ground from which we can build understanding. If there was any semblance of agreement in modern Christianity, do you think there would be a thousand quarelling sects and denominations? Joseph Smith went into the grove to pray because he came to the conclusion that it was impossible to find out which Church he should join by studying the Bible alone. This is a true statement.
Report Post »In this “war of words” and “contest of opinions” that rages in Christendom, the only way to find the truth is to “ask of God.” (James 1:5) Thus the Book of Mormon becomes the preeminent tool for conversion. It offers clear and plain gospel teachings free of sectarian interpretations. It clarifies the Bible’s teachings and helps identify the interpolations of men. It also identifies to the sincere seeker, where and how to locate the conduit of personal revelation for himself, independent of anyone or anything else.
Latter-day Saints will be more effective by teaching the gospel from the Book of Mormon than from any other source. We should encourage all interested parties to seek truth in prayer and from the Book of Mormon. Finding the truth in this manner identifies the means of obtaining personal revelation, the source of restored authority, how to obtain the ordinances of salvation, and how to live in such a manner as to obtain and keep a remission of one’s sins.
Uncle Tom
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:03pmLiberty Goddess,
Joey Smith was a) a liar who made the whole thing up, or b) was deceived by Satan.
If just one, single piece of archaelogical evidence for any of the civilizations written of in the Book of Mormon can be found, I will withdraw that comment. I mean, surely battles involving millions of people would have left behind some evidence, wouldn’t they? Spears or arrowheads? Wouldn’t there be coins or other artifacts from cities that were supposedly here, in the Americas?
Because, if the book is lying about that, why should I believe anything else it says?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:41pm[Uncle Tom
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:03pm
Liberty Goddess,
Joey Smith was a) a liar who made the whole thing up, or b) was deceived by Satan.
If just one, single piece of archaelogical evidence for any of the civilizations written of in the Book of Mormon can be found, I will withdraw that comment. I mean, surely battles involving millions of people would have left behind some evidence, wouldn’t they? Spears or arrowheads?]
There was no single battle involving millions of people. You are confused. In any location with hundreds of thousands of people we rarely find more than a very small amount of remnants. Especially if parts were made of wood, cloth, etc. So we are left with stone and metal. There are lots of stone and metal remannts in South America. Including thousands of arrow heads and thousands of weapon and or tool remants.
However, what you seek is a sign, to make your belief system easier to grasp. Christ condemned sign seekers for various reasons. Mostly to do with testing why you believe what you end up believing.
Report Post »Uncle Tom
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:33pmKMichaels “There was no single battle involving millions of people. You are confused.”
Really? I must have misread Ether 15…
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:47pmEther 15 is in regards to Ether recapping to Coriantumr the total number of dead that he had witnessed (or new about) in the entire war. The war lasted for several years, and covered a great deal of land. You can think of it as the civil war. The civil war had approximated 600,000 killed, but not all at once in a single battle. The number of Jews killed by Hitler was numbered to be 6 million. But again, not all in one location and not all at the same time in one single event. That is all that I was saying. You also have to keep in mind that Ether was reporting the best total number that he could come up with based on what he was told. Ether was not saying that he personally witnessed two million deaths.
Report Post »gramma b
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:36pmBit by bit, archeological evidence is confirming things in the Book of Mormon, although much of it is in the Old World. There are lists that professional anti-Mormons have used as “proof” that the Book of Mormon was invented by Joseph Smith. Things like, there were no temples built outside Jerusalem, there are no rivers that run year round on the Arabian Peninsula, there is nothing like the Land Bountiful on the Arabian Peninsula. Back in the early 19th century, that’s what everyone thought, and things that Joseph Smith could not possibly have known. But, bit by bit, the professional anti-Mormons have had to cross things off their list as new discoveries have confirmed details in the Book of Mormon. Now, the professional anti-Mormons are conceding that Joseph Smith could not have made it up. So, they say, it was dictated to him by demons. Really. Demons. Why? Why would demons preach the divinity of Christ and teach men to keep the Commandments and devote themselves to Christ?
Which comes to another argument that makes no sense. The anti-Mormons say, in essence, “All you have to do to be saved is confess that Jesus is the Lord. Except for Mormons. They are going to Hell, because, in addition to confessing that Jesus is the Lord, Mormons believe they also have to keep the commandments.” Call me crazy, but that just seems a little silly.
Report Post »Uncle Tom
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:56pmEther 15:14-15, 23
14 Wherefore, they were for the space of four years gathering together the people, that they might get all who were upon the face of the land, and that they might receive all the strength which it was possible that they could receive.
15 And it came to pass that when they were all gathered together, every one to the army which he would, with their wives and their children—both men, women and children being armed with aweapons of war, having shields, and breastplates, and head-plates, and being clothed after the manner of war—they did march forth one against another to battle; and they fought all that day, and conquered not.
23 And on the morrow they fought again; and when the night came they had all fallen by the sword save it were fifty and two of the people of Coriantumr, and sixty and nine of the people of Shiz.
If they were gathering people for four years, and then all but 52 of them died in one day, it seems like there would be something left over from that. Breastplates and shields and other armor. So why, then is there no other record of such peoples doing battle? Even secular scholars agree that pretty much the entire biblical account of Israel, post Solomon is, historically verifiable. Why not BoM?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:22pmUNCLE TOM
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:56pm
Ether 15:14-15, 23
… Well Tom, if you could read, you would note that the 2 million killed came before chapter 15. As I mentioned, they were the total count of the dead up until chapter 15. The fact that they continued to plan for war 4 more years with the remainder says nothing about how many people were involved. Are you purposely jumping all around to confuse the other readers?
You will have a hard time with explanations if your reading skills are as bad as they seem.
Report Post »Cosmos102
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:34amSomeone made a great point here, Where was all the discussion on MSNBC about Obama’s pastor…Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
As for the rest of the bunk that MSNBC is railing against us in the clip, it is pure lies and distortions. Where is their counter to their claims? How are they being fair and balanced? They can just do the Jr. High School thing, make up an accusation based on a distortion of the facts, and run with it as if it was the truth. That’s called “attacking”, not reporting.
The good thing is that no one can sit and watch this drivel and not question their accuracy or their motives. It’s just that grossly distorted. But to the Commies who lap it up, have at it! What ever rings your bell, Comrades.
Report Post »su96us
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:23amSee, I don’t understand? How is that if on fox news, if they got together a panel all conservatives and bashed a liberal candidate supporter, and had two anchors saying they “loved” Rick Perry…they would be buried in the ground, called “evil hate mongering bigoted right-wing extremists” and attacked endlessly (note: I am in no way defending fox news)! But when MSNBC does it no one (except “the blaze”) says anything about it, they can get away with it? Why? Why don’t people protest the OWS protestors? Who cares if CNN, ABCnews, Katie Couric, MSNBC, HuffingtonPost and any other liberal “news” source you could think of paints you as a hateful bunch trying to bloc their free speech! Why? Why do conservatives do nothing?
Report Post »RockofLove
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:17amI was a mormon 23 years of my life. Realized it had many mis-truths. They define Christ as a created being by God the Father, not Eternal God 2nd personage of the Trinity. Huntsman said polygamy ended with the manifesto of 1890 ,yet the doctrine was never removed from the D&C. I would hope
Report Post »that the Chuch would not put any pressure on Romney as far as issues,but lets say a bill was introduced for allowing Polygamy ,just as we have Gay marriage battle today . ?????
motonutt
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:25amAnd I forgot to ad….the spineless poster child for RINO’S morning Joe is the moron. that’s all.
Report Post »tbb
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:25am@rockoflove Man have you miss understood Mormon doctrine!
Report Post »Arlundee
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:41am@Rock – You obviously were misinformed and did little to no research for yourself. That’s your bad and not something to be reflected negatively back on the church. If you’re not willing to meet Him halfway, can you really expect him to just lay everything out in front of you? Once again, spend some time on lds.org, ponder and pray… willingly…. about the things on that site before you go spreading the fires.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:45am@rock…you are so right…
and polygamy is the next step after gay marriage is imposed upon us.
Report Post »americanfirst
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:13amWait. I’m Mormon and …huh? what in thee heck? Either you‘re totally misinformed or you’re a liberal plant trying to scare the flock – which is it.
Report Post »I’ve been living the faith for some 20 years – I have no idea what you just said but more importantly… it bears no resemblance to the gospel teaching taking place at the Mormon churches I’ve been a part of.
Are you ex-FLDS?
Audacity of The Infidel
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:21am@Joe, Polygamy is next. Bill O’reilly last week had three Mormons on & they are working to change the Laws against Polygamy in America. I think both Mormons & Muslims would like the laws changed.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:36amRockolove was either as dumb as a rock when (and if) he were in the LDS church or he is an outright liar/plant trying to deceive. LDS doctrine is clear that Christ was with God in the beginning and it was Christ that created the earth, and the entire visible universe. Secondly, the law left in the D&C is in regards to eternal marriage, not polygamous marriage. Two strikes and this moron, RockOfLove is OUT.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:41am@rockoflove. Please dont disagree with
the Mormons. They are very sensitive people
who are always right. They have all the answers
as far as God is concerned. They will start calling
you names soon. Call you a liar. Insult
your intelligence. Call you a liberal or communists.
Add their book of Mormon to your bible and
teach you what Jesus really meant. They are Gods
chosen people. How do they know these things?
A magic rock told them through Joseph Smith.
With love. We are Americans.
We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:51am@kmichaels. I tried to warn @rockoflove u
Report Post »were coming. You just beat my post. You
need to work on that live your brother thingy
Jesus spoke of.
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:53am[We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:41am
@rockoflove. Please dont disagree with
the Mormons. They are very sensitive people
who are always right.]
Whereas “We Are Americans” never thinks that she is right and never shows any signs of being insenstive when her beliefs are called out onto the carpet. In other words, she is your typical hypocrite. Yesterday or the day before she was complaining that her freedom of speech was being denied simply because somebody disagreed with her. She has been calling referring to Mormons with negative names and negative connotations describing things in a negative manner (“magic rock”) then she get’s upset if somebody uses the same negativity back at her. The reason she is called a liberal is she uses the same moronic form of logic, double-talk and hypocrisy typically found in the liberal camp.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:07am@kmichaels. I’m a she? Are you projecting?lol.
Report Post »I got the magic rock terminology by reading
Joseph Smith biography on the LDS website.
I’m not trying to demean anything. We can have
a discussion but you start by calling people names.
I’ve never called anybody names. You do.
Jesus speaks directly about marriage and heaven
in Matthew. It’s not the same as LDS doctrine.
I’m not an idiot because I believe in His word.
It makes me a Christian.
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:21am[We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:07am
@kmichaels. I’m a she? Are you projecting?lol.
I got the magic rock terminology by reading
Joseph Smith biography on the LDS website.
I’m not trying to demean anything. We can have
a discussion but you start by calling people names.
I’ve never called anybody names. You do.
Jesus speaks directly about marriage and heaven
in Matthew. It’s not the same as LDS doctrine.
I’m not an idiot because I believe in His word.
It makes me a Christian.]
Jesus speaks about marriage and heaven in many works, including the Book of Mormon, etc. And in order for you to believe his word, you have to demonstrate an understanding of all of his words, which you seem extremely weak at doing. And yes, you call mormons names and you use derogatory terms and negative connotations. To ignore your own flaws simply makes you a hypocrite and a liar. And your negative use of “magic rock” was used purposely by you as a cut and jab. You know it and I know it and more of your lies about it will not change it.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:31pm@kmichaels. Of course I have flaws. We all do.
Report Post »Ive been reading posts here and all the LDS members
say read the website and educate yourself if
you want to know the truth. I go on the LDS
website and read the biography of Joseph Smith
where it states he used magic rocks to
interpret the golden plates to write the
Book of Mormon. He read the interpretation
to his wife Emma. it’s the history of your church.
I’m sorry you consider that demeaning.
I did find the magic rocks amusing but I
have not actually called you names that you
call others. Now I’m a liar. There are plenty of
people who think I’m in a fantasy that Jesus
is God, died and was raised. Dosnt bother me that
they do. It’s my faith. I did engage in sarcastic
commentary towards you because of the names you
call me and others. I wish you no ill will. I’m sorry
for that. I should be bigger than that but as you’ve
stated, I am flawed.
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:09pm[We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:31pm
@kmichaels. Of course I have flaws. We all do.
I am flawed.]
I have no problem understanding that I am flawed and that you are flawed and that all have various flaws. Anyone I choose to call names to tends to be name callers themselves. I find it interesting to give them back some of their own. Then it goes into circles about who called names first, as if that person never called anyone names before. I think it is all kind of petty.
The key issue is that people will defend their own belief systems so don’t act too surprised. Especially when you act like a hypocrite.
And finally, the LDS site does not say Josepsh Smith translated via “magic rocks”. It states that he used the power of the urim and thummin, first mentioned in the Old Testament. It is hebrew for “Light and Truth”. The fact that God gave Joseph Smith some device to aid in translating is not less a miracle than Christ turning water to wine, walking on water, raising the dead, or any of the Old Testament miracles. You belittle that which you fail to understand then expect smiles and giggles from those you are attempting to make fun of.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:43pmThe Bible is probably the most misquoted book in existence. Paul is probably the most misquoted person ever. The Bible was written by living oracles of God to people who were accustomed to and accepting of the principle of contemporary revelation from God. The counsel and guidance the apostles gave were to people who had a shared understanding. It makes no sense to preach grace to those who haven’t repented, been baptized,and had a remission of their sins. It doesn’t add up to teach about spiritual gifts and the fruits of the spirit to those who have no right to them. The scriptures don’t ask the reader to accept Christ as a personal Savior or to make a commitment for Christ, because it is addressed to those who had already accepted Christ by covenant.
The cafeteria-style doctrinal approach of contemporary Christian churches is the result of their rejection of modern revelation as a possibility. Without revelation to guide, one must try to cobble together some theology by picking and choosing what fits into one’s world view and reject the rest as “metaphors” or “symbolism.”
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:50pm@kmichaels. Joseph Smiths biography refers
Report Post »to them as magic stones. http://Www.LDS-mormon.com/jsmith.shtml
Is the site I read it on.
I can understand you defending your church.
I guess it’s the rhetoric. Anyway. Yes we could go
in circles on these issues. The only one who
would benefit is the evil one. One thing though.
I don‘t believe I’m a hyprocrite. You believe
I’m wrong in what I believe. As I do you.
Bottom line is that in the end Jesus makes
that judgment. No man can. God bless you.
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:02pm[We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:50pm
@kmichaels. Joseph Smiths biography refers
to them as magic stones. http://Www.LDS-mormon.com/jsmith.shtml
Is the site I read it on.]
God bless you too. But that link you gave was not a “mormon” site. And the article was written by an anti-mormon, for the most part, regardless of what he may say. The terms in the so-called biography were ment to be derogatory, as is the case for the entire article that you linked to.
If you want the official version then you can get it from http://www.lds.org. That way, you can avoid all the BS anti-mormon crap that you linked to.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:07pm@kmichaels. I will read it.
Report Post »Arlundee
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:07amHonestly, I trend to vote for candidates based on their political views, and ONLY based on religious views if their religion is going to violate my own personal liberties. Since I can’t se how a Mormon is going to violate my rights… Next topic please.
But I would give word of caution to any non Mormons posting on here… Go to lds.org and research for yourself before you proceed to inform ME of the things I believe. If you can’t even research far enough into the church before you start bashing people, then are you really any better than those protesters on wallstreet?
Once again… The website is lds.org …and if you go anywhere else, you are probably getting wrong information.
Report Post »RockofLove
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:21amI would say check out utlm.org as well. Another View.
motonutt
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:22amI strongly do not agree with what Perry’s pastor said. No….I’m not a mormon.
Report Post »How many other than Glen, Rush, and Hannity did we hear about obummers pastors white and jew hating sermons from the main stream media…..nothing. But boy they are all over this story. Typical hypocrisy from the left.
Walkabout
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:52am“Honestly, I trend to vote for candidates based on their political views, and ONLY based on religious views if their religion is going to violate my own personal liberties. ”
IMO we have nothing to worry about from Romney & everything from Obama.
Between Obama & Romney, I am voting for Romney, no hesitation.
Report Post »windwalker
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:10pmROCKOFLOVE you need to change your name to ROCKOFDECEIT… because you speak no truth about the Mormons. The link you have provided is full of half truths and lies. Again go to lds.org, mormon.org, fairlds.org. These are the sources of truth about Mormons. However I think people can go to anti-mormon sites if they want but should balance it out with the truth.
Report Post »amerbur
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:06amScarborough is such a looser. The Pastor made a statement of what he thought was a fact and then he gave his opionion of how it may efffect his voting. He said mormonism has been considered a cult by mainstream Christianity. Is the pastor mistaken? What does mainstream Christianity think of Mormonism? What effect might this have on voting? The truth and relevence of the statement can be questioned and debated but Scarborough certainly does not have all the answers as he seems to think he does.
Report Post »by faith
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:29amHow is Joseph Smith different from Martin Luther?
Report Post »He didn’t like the religion of the day, so he changed it.
by faith
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:50amSorry Amerbur, that comment was not directed at you, just a over simplified question I replyed to the wrong thread.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:55pm“How is Joseph Smith different from Martin Luther?”
smith is a false prophet, a liar and deceiver.
Luther was none of those things.
Report Post »by faith
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 9:16amThe current canon of Scripture was affirmed at the Council of Rome in 382 under Pope Damasus, which included all and only the seventy-three books Catholics honor today. This canon was repeated at Hippo and at Carthage (A.D. 393 and 397, respectively) and has been repeated ever since.
It was Martin Luther who tossed out the seven books considered canonical since the beginning of Church history. He also rejected the epistle to the Hebrews and the book of Revelation. He also called the epistle of James “an epistle of straw” because James 2:14–26 conflicted with his personal theology on good works. He also added the word (in his German translation) only in Romans 3:20 and Romans 4:15, and he inserted the word alone in Romans 3:28.
By who’s authority did Luther make these changes?
Report Post »Longshot35
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:03amEveryone on here is free to believe and worship according to the dictates of our own conscience which is the most wonderful thing about this great nation.
I know Joseph Smith was a Prophet called of God. If you disagree fine. Thats your perogative.
I know the Book of Mormon is another testament of Jesus Christ just as the Bible testifies of Christ and is the word of God. If you disagree, thats fine.
I have faith in God the Eternal Father, and in His Son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Christ is my Savior and none of you can convince me otherwise.
I have searched the scriptures, fasted, and prayed about all these things. So you all can say whatever you want. I thank God that we have been blessed with the Freedom to do so. It upsets me to see our precious freedom to say and worship how we choose under assault. I just try to live Christ’s gospel as best as I can.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:13amGalatians 1:8 – But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
If you believe in the baloney from Moroni, you’re believing another gospel.
Report Post »sissykatz
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:29amWell They want the people called out, yet when Barack was lying they didn’t
like Joe Wilson calling him out on it.
I think we have made it 3 horrible years under a“Muslim President” I think any
other Religion would be a breeze. Especially ones that do really believe in Peace.
Why is no one callling out Obama as a Muslim???? He had Wright and Muslim Teachings.
Report Post »I certainly don’t want another Muslim in Chief….
Arlundee
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:45amWS – If you’re not going to do yourself a favor and research lds.org for what Mormons believe in, do us all a favor and quit posting. You’re no better than those protesting @ wallstreet if you’re not going to research what Mormons believe before posting.
Besides, this is the time to UNITE as conservatives to get Obama the heck OUT of the whitehouse. Not bicker about things which honestly do not matter in politics.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:46am“I know Joseph Smith was a Prophet called of God. If you disagree fine. Thats your perogative.”
I know he claimed to be a prophet…but he was a false prophet…
President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh — even fifty six years should wind up the scene. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182).
This prophecy was spoken by Joseph Smith in 1835, and recorded by Oliver Cowdery. The fifty-six years were passed by 1891.
Report Post »amerbur
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:34amI have not studied the book of Mormon, I have no opionion one way or the other not because I do not care, actually I pray that mormons know Jesus. I love many mormons and I see exceptional lives being lived by many mormons. A church, either evangelical, mormon, catholic, jahovah witness will not save any of us. God has told us through his word what it takes to be a child of God. My personal understanding is that God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that who ever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. A church will not save you but believing (and if one believes he seeks to do that which he is called to do) in Jesus will. God will know his own. I pray for my brothers and sisters in Christ that I and they will not be deceived but will come to know the will of God before the glorious day of his return.
Report Post »fastfox86
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:40amWell said Longshot. The power of your testimony is felt.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:47amWSGAC
[Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:13am
Galatians 1:8 – But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!
If you believe in the baloney from Moroni, you’re believing another gospel.]
You would have a point if certain things were proven true. First off, you have failed to prove that the gospel testified to in the Book of Mormon is indeed contrary to what is found in the Old and New Testament. Secondly, there are some serious problems with some doctrines found in many modern day “Christian” churches that are not remotely backed up by the New Testament scripture. For example, the concept of the trinity is totally made up by men. The physical nature of God is totally mis-represented. The confusion about works and salvation are encouraged by many modern man-made doctrines that were inserted after Christ, etc, etc.
The LDS doctrine sticks closer to the original New Testament (and Old Testament) than any other church today.
Yes, curses will be added to those that teach “another gosple” or “another Christ”. But don’t be surprised that it is you and your doctrine that is cursed.
Report Post »motonutt
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:50amI am not calling mormons evil. I see mormons as being decieved by Joseph Smith. I believe HE will be judged as the deciever of millions of people who do have a great heart for Jesus. I strongly do NOT believe mormons are going to hell because they are mormon. I have personaly rebuked many evangelicals for saying so. I have had many mormon friends, my x wife of 20 years was a mormon, I was in a mormon boy scout troop as a kid. This question is posted with peace and love, but I do have a question…..how do you get around Rev. 22:18 ? I see the book of Mormon as an addition to scripture……
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:00am“The LDS doctrine sticks closer to the original New Testament (and Old Testament) than any other church today.”
oh yeah thats why you had add several holy books to the bible!!!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:10am[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:46am
I know he claimed to be a prophet…but he was a false prophet…
President Smith then stated that the meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit. . . . it was the will of God that they should be ordained to the ministry and go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, for the coming of the Lord, which was nigh — even fifty six years should wind up the scene. (History of the Church, Vol. 2, page 182). This prophecy was spoken by Joseph Smith in 1835, and recorded by Oliver Cowdery. The fifty-six years were passed by 1891.]
Notice the key words, that the coming of the lord was nigh. Also notice that the coming of the lord being nigh is a repetitive theme throughout the New Testament, after Jesus had died.
Here is John (New Testament) making his similar “false” prophecy. Complete with an angel showing John things that are to “shortly” come.
Revelation 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Can these things be explained when looked at in complete context, understanding the nature of time, the specific events being referred to, etc? Yes, but JOE1234 will use his typical trick of taking things ou
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:13am“First off, you have failed to prove that the gospel testified to in the Book of Mormon is indeed contrary to what is found in the Old and New Testament”
let me count the ways…
1) christianity has one God, not 3.
2) in Christianity Jesus is the creator, not a created being.
3) Christianity has only one God, no gods before, none after…you will never be a god
4) in christianity Jesus is not the spirt brother of lucifer
5) Christianity never had polygamy as a doctrine of the church
6) in Christianity there is no ‘exaltation’ you are either saved, or not..and there is no general salvation
7) in Christianity salvation is by grace, not by works
8) christians believe the bible is the word of God…mormons only as it is ‘correctly translated’ ie agrees with their doctrine…
I’m sure there are more, but this is a start….
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:16am[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:00am
“The LDS doctrine sticks closer to the original New Testament (and Old Testament) than any other church today.” oh yeah thats why you had add several holy books to the bible!!!]
What a stupid comment and lack of logic and lack of historical perspective. Would you say the same to Christ and his Christian followers for adding the entire New Testament collection of books to the “bible”? How as that ok with God to add new scripture then but not Ok for God to add more testimonies of his truth later? You have no common sense. You accept some new scripture readily (magically because it happened on some given date, yet reject others out of hand simply because they are “new” to what you already had. You will reject the two prophets predicted in the book of reveleations for example simply because they are new. You are not very bright and you sure in hell are not very consistent.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:18am@kmichaels…what context???
even fifty six years should wind up the scene
smith gave a definite time frame….56 years….WRONG.
oh there are plenty more…
Revelation given through Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Kirtland, Ohio, September 22 and 23, 1832. HC 1:286-295.
1. A revelation of Jesus Christ unto his servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and six elders, as they united their hearts and lifted their voices on high.
2. Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.
3. Which city shall be built, beginning at the temple lot, which is appointed by the finger of the Lord, in the western boundaries of the State of Missouri, and dedicated by the hand of Joseph Smith, Jun., and others with whom the Lord was well pleased.
4. Verily, this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.
5. For verily this generation shall not all pass away until an house shall be built unto the Lord, and a cloud shall rest upon it, which cloud shall be even the glory of the Lord, which shall fill the house.
The Mormons were forced to flee Missouri due to persecution and a temple was never built on the “temple
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:21am“What a stupid comment and lack of logic and lack of historical perspective. Would you say the same to Christ and his Christian followers for adding the entire New Testament collection of books to the “bible”? How as that ok with God to add new scripture then but not Ok for God to add more testimonies of his truth later?”
you have a very serious problem with reading comprehension and logic….you said…
“The LDS doctrine sticks closer to the original New Testament (and Old Testament) than any other church today.”
so how can you ‘stick closer’ than anyone else when you have your own holy books? logically someone who only has the old and new testament as their holy books by definition sticks closer to the original than someone who adds holy books to the bible…
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:34am[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:13am
“First off, you have failed to prove that the gospel testified to in the Book of Mormon is indeed contrary to what is found in the Old and New Testament”
let me count the ways…]
As with everything Joe1234 does, he twists what LDS say about things.
[1) christianity has one God, not 3.]
Trinity means three. God the Father, God Christ, and God the Holy Ghost. Bare minimum of three gods discussed in the New Testament. However one in purpose. Which is the point of oneness. Christ prayed to God the Father that his follows (now number in the millions) would become ONE WITH GOD as (in the same manner) I (Christ) am with you (God the Father).
[ 2) in Christianity Jesus is the creator, not a created being.]
LDS teach that Christ was with God in the beginning, that he created the earth and the universe and that he was teh God of the old testament.
[4) in christianity Jesus is not the spirt brother of lucifer]
Bible teaches that Lucifer was in heaven and cast down. Bible teaches that God was the creator of all spirits, including lucifer. Joe1234 in his dimwittedness assumes that LDS treat lucifer and Christ in the same manner. That is simply his stupidty working again. History teaches that we are the spirit brothers and sisters of Hitler, Pol Pot, Stalin, Lenin, etc. But that does not mean we are like them.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:41am[Joe1234
5) Christianity never had polygamy as a doctrine of the church]
Polygamy was a common pracitce amongst the Israelites. Israel, the father of many nations had at least 4 wives. It was so common that during the New Testament time, when describing the job of being Bishop, it was specified that a Bishop should have only one wife, in order to better serve those he served.
[6) in Christianity there is no ‘exaltation’ you are either saved, or not..and there is no general salvation]
Christian scriptures teach that Christ will be exhalted and that his followers will be “joint heirs with Christ” and that they will recieve “ALL THAT MY FATHER HATH”. Christian scriptures clearly teach that “as in Adam all die, as in Christ ALL SHALL BE MADE ALIVE.” Salvation is a universal gift.
[ 7) in Christianity salvation is by grace, not by works]
True. However exhaltation is based upon your works, as the Christian scriptures clearly state, repeatedly.
[ 8) christians believe the bible is the word of God…mormons only as it is ‘correctly translated’ ie agrees with their doctrine…]
New Testament scriptures also state that there is a correct translation to the scriptures. “The scritpures are not mean for private interpreation” The LDS follow this same admonition, truthfully stating that there is a true interpretation of all scriptures.
All Joe1234 has done was prove his lack of knowledge of LDS and New Testament teachings.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:43am“Trinity means three. God the Father, God Christ, and God the Holy Ghost. Bare minimum of three gods discussed in the New Testament”
and no christian church believes in 3 gods…only 1 God. your view of the trinity one (of many) reasons mormons are not christians.
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One. (not 3)
“LDS teach that Christ was with God in the beginning, that he created the earth and the universe and that he was teh God of the old testament.”
wrong…Mormons teach Jesus is a created being…
The first spirit to be born in heaven was Jesus, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 129).
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163; Gospel Through the Ages, p. 15).
“Bible teaches that God was the creator of all spirits, including lucifer”
The Bible teaches Jesus is the creator of all things….including Satan….Jesus is the Alpha and Omega…
REvelation 1:
“Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
no gods before or after…
Isaiah 43:
10 “You are my witnesses,” declares the LORD,
Report Post »“and my servant whom I have chosen,
so that you may know and believe me
and understand that I am he.
Before me no god was formed,
nor will there be one after me.
11 I, even I, am the LORD,
and apart from me
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:48am[Joe1234 ...
so how can you ‘stick closer’ than anyone else when you have your own holy books? logically someone who only has the old and new testament as their holy books by definition sticks closer to the original than someone who adds holy books to the bible…]
My point, JOE, is that the pattern of the scriptures is that they were started with a few books (5 books of moses) then added to, over time, as God saw fit. During Christ’s time, it was said and pointed out that he stuck with Old Testament scriptures quite well, and fulfilled the pattern of the Old Testament, while still managing to add all of the NEW books of the New Testament. That is the pattern. So how can somebody stick with existing scriptures yet still add new scriptures. For the simple answer to that question, review Christ. He had the entire New Testament scriptures ADDED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT. Joe, you just aint that bright.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:49am“Polygamy was a common pracitce amongst the Israelites. Israel, the father of many nations had at least 4 wives. It was so common that during the New Testament time, when describing the job of being Bishop, it was specified that a Bishop should have only one wife”
no it wasn’t common…only about 15 people in the bible had polygamous relationships…and it was always a disaster….(look at solomon) there are no verses authorizing polygamy. and yeah doesn’t the NT command of having only 1 wife tell you anything??? please.
“Christian scriptures clearly teach that “as in Adam all die, as in Christ ALL SHALL BE MADE ALIVE.” Salvation is a universal gift.’
yeah all in Christ shall be made alive…notice the IN CHRIST part of it….there is no general salvation…you either go to heaven, or hell….there aren‘t degrees of heaven or ’exaltation’
““The scritpures are not mean for private interpreation” The LDS follow this same admonition”
then why do you have your own private interpretation that no other church buys? hmmm??? you violate your own stated belief…too funny!!
“All Joe1234 has done was prove his lack of knowledge of LDS and New Testament teachings.”
All I’ve done is make you look foolish…not that you need any help!!! LOL
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:51am“True. However exhaltation is based upon your works, as the Christian scriptures clearly state, repeatedly.”
there is no exaltation…and there is no salvation based upon works….
Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”
Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
Gal. 2:21, I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.
Gal.3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”
Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:56am“My point, JOE, is that the pattern of the scriptures is that they were started with a few books (5 books of moses) then added to, over time, as God saw fit.”
false prophets are not from God…so clearly the book of moromon, given by the false prophet smith, is not a book from the God of the bible who clearly did not like false prophets and and had them stoned.
“For the simple answer to that question, review Christ. He had the entire New Testament scriptures ADDED TO THE OLD TESTAMENT. Joe, you just aint that bright.”
not according to the jews…but the Lord added that to explain the new covenant…a covenant of salvation by Grace, relying upon the finished work of Christ…mormons corrupt that by adding a gospel of works. your unholy scripture contradicts the Old and New testaments, much as the quran does.
and of course the muslims say the same thing as you do about their book, the quran…christians don’t buy what the muslims are selling, and we don’t buy what you are selling.
I do feel sorry for you, you must be in a great deal of pain, such stupidity has to hurt.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:03pmJoe1234, you can try to explain the moronic man made idea of three Gods rolled into one all day long but it will never make sense simply because it is a bastardized version of the truth.
Christ is God, he is the Son of God, and that makes for TWO GODS. However they are one in purpose. It makes perfect sense. You are so stuck on your childish idea of God that you will refuse to believe simple truths. One simple truth is that God calls us his children. YE ARE THE SONS AND DAUGHTERS OF GOD. And that we are “JOINT HEIRS” with CHRIST, and that “ALL THAT MY FATHER HATH shall be given you. These are straight out of CHRISTIAN scriptures.
The fact that your head can’t understand having multiple entities being ONE in purpose, and that idea not interferring with the concept of ONE GOD in purpose is a result of your own small minded nature.
And the fact that you have that stick up your butt regarding LDS people is your own personal problem. I suggest you remove it. It makes you walk uptight and with this nasty irritated look on your face.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:22pm“Christ is God, he is the Son of God, and that makes for TWO GODS. However they are one in purpose. It makes perfect sense”
this is why Mormons are not christian, and never will be. yeah it does make sense to you…you have gods in your own image. The bible CLEARLY says there is only 1 God. and yes the trinity is a mystery, beyond our comprehension…..1 God 3 persons.
Deuteronomy 4:35,39 — Unto thee it was shown, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him. (39) Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deuteronomy32:39 — See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
Samuel 7:22 — Wherefore thou art great, O LORD God; for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
1 Chronicles 17:20— O LORD, there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.
I could go on and on with this…
“And the fact that you have that stick up your butt regarding LDS people is your own personal problem. I suggest you remove it. It makes you walk uptight and with this nasty irritated look on your face.”
are all mormons hate-filled wackos?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:25pmGalatians 3:20 — Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
sians 4:6 — One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.
James 2:19 — Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Corinthians 8:4-6 — As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
Mark 12:29-34 —And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Report Post »windwalker
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:43pmKMICHAELS I love you :) I just laughed my head off on how you answered Joe1234 ridiculous statements. You’re totally AWESOME! Time to stop wasting your time on him/her.
Joe no matter how many times you state lies and half truths it does not make them true. You totally show your ignorance and biases to the world. Why do you work so hard to follow the father of lies, do you not care about your eternal salvation. Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to hell.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:23pm[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:49am
no it wasn’t common…only about 15 people in the bible had polygamous relationships…and it was always a disaster….(look at solomon) there are no verses authorizing polygamy. and yeah doesn’t the NT command of having only 1 wife tell you anything??? please. ]
Actually, history books by Josephus and such, explaing that polygamy was a common practice by the house of Israel. No, it did not always end in a disaster. For example, Israel the person had a minimum of four wives. Abraham had a minimum of two wives. Both are considered chosen individuals.
And the only declaration in the New Testament regarding one wife was very specifically given for the qualifications of a Bishop.
1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Leaving open the obvious question as to why was the requirement of one wife tied to being a Bishop and not given as general instruction to all members. So obviously one scripture does not settle the issue but it leaves open some serious questions.
As to the LDS church, it chose to give up the practice of Polygamy and members are ex-communicated if they practice it.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:53pm[joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:25pm
1 Timothy 2:5 — For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.]
Whoops, you slipped up JOE1234. You just said that Christ was a man, “the man Christ Jesus”.
And just a few minutes ago you said Christ was God. Please make up your mind kid. BTW, did you remove that painful object from your behind yet? I suggest you do. It will make life much more bearable.
One more thing, the trinity was invented by man, hundreds of years after Christ, because those particular morons where having a tough mental excercise trying to figure out how there could only be one God and yet still call Christ a God and the Holy Ghost a God.
If you really think about it it can be a mass of confusion. It becomes a mystery only because it is such a stupid lie in the first place.
The simpler truth is that the being God created children and the natural path of children is to become like their father. God repeatedly refers to us as his children.
1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
John 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
Report Post »35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture
joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:14pm“You totally show your ignorance and biases to the world. Why do you work so hard to follow the father of lies, do you not care about your eternal salvation. Wo unto the liar, for he shall be thrust down to h”
actually you show your ignorance with every post LOL
as far as the father of lies….we‘ll see who wins in the end won’t we?? oh but I thought your false mormon jesus saves everyone? so who is lying you or the other mormons?
you can’t keep your lies straight you have so many of them!!
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:19pm“No, it did not always end in a disaster. For example, Israel the person had a minimum of four wives. Abraham had a minimum of two wives. Both are considered chosen individuals. ”
I would contest that abraham had multiple wives…but he did have concubines…but the children of Isaac and Ishamael are still at war, with a 4,000 year old hatred…hows that working out? as far as the children of Jacob….oh yeah they almost killed joseph and sold him into slavery….nice.
oh and Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness…he wasn’t baptized…nor did having a few mistresses make him righteous….
so show me the verse authorizing polygamy!!! you can’t. you make a doctrine out of man’s sins….polygamy is sexist as hell…you get to be a god, but the women don’t get to be goddesses….just like your racist doctrine of blacks and priesthood which was only changed in the 1970s…
oh and why are you defending polygamy SO vociferously? thought you mormons gave it up?
“So obviously one scripture does not settle the issue but it leaves open some serious questions.”
there is no verse authorizing polygamy….
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:26pm“Whoops, you slipped up JOE1234. You just said that Christ was a man, “the man Christ Jesus”.
uh gomer, I didn’t say it…the bible does. and I didn‘t ’slip up’…only in your deluded little mind.
“And just a few minutes ago you said Christ was God. Please make up your mind kid. BTW, did you remove that painful object from your behind yet? I suggest you do. It will make life much more bearable.”
He is God…there is no contradiction…and why are you SO interested in my behind? you betray yourself…LOL you’re not my type sonny, sorry. you‘re a kinky little mormon pervert aren’t you now?
“One more thing, the trinity was invented by man, ”
BS….do you ever tell the truth? the bible clearly states the Father is God, the Son is God, and there is ONE GOD…and all your lies won’t change that.
“The simpler truth is that the being God created children and the natural path of children is to become like their father. God repeatedly refers to us as his children. ”
more mormon lies…God didn’t create any children…you have a god in your own image…its all your simple little mind can understand.
“10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture”
did you ever read the psalm that Jesus refers to??
Report Post »Psalm 82
6 “I said, ‘You are “gods”;
you are all sons of the Most High.’
7 But you will die like mere mor
joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:27pm“BS….do you ever tell the truth? the bible clearly states the Father is God, the Son is God, and there is ONE GOD…and all your lies won’t change that.”
oops let me say that again the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God and there is ONE GOD
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:33pmoh as far as God having children…
Ephesians 1:
4 For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love 5 he[b] predestined us for adoption to sonship[c] through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will—
Romans 8:
14 For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. 15 The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship
Romans 8:23
Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies.
Galatians 4:5
to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.
tell me KM, are you masochistic…do enjoy being made af fool out of?? LOL
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:46pmand here is KMICHAEL on another post talking about my behind!!!
”
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:32pm
As an individual, JOE1234 somes across as a bit of an a-hole with a stick up his butt”
He really is OBSESSED with my backside!!!!
I didn’t think mormons were supposed to swing this way!!!
keep dreaming KM….you’ll never see my butt….and its very muscular and firm!!
bet the drool is running down your fat little jowls!!! LOL
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:07pmYes, it is true, JOE1234 does have his head us his arse. Now, Joe seems to be implying that if you spot an idiot like Joe, having his bigoted misinformed head us his arse, that that means you must be gay. JOE1234 is kind of fun and easy to jerk around. He is so angry he is like a chicken with his head cut off, running every which way, trying to convince others that he is not a small minded bigoted little freak of a kid. Oh well, that’s life.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:25pm“es, it is true, JOE1234 does have his head us his arse.”
again talking about my backside!!! you mormons are weird and kinky!!!!
bet you say that to all the boys!! LOL
Report Post »by faith
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:51pmDo LDS/Mormons accept or claim Jesus as their Lord and Savior.
Report Post »I think the answer is yes.
According to Once saved always saved, you do not need works…problem solved
sandyn
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:52amMormons do not have killing infidels as part of their religion. That’s enough for me to let them get on the religion train. You all can quibble religious philosophy all you want but I support anything that makes you a better person and the Mormons have done a fine job with that as well. Leave them alone and let them practice freedom of religion while we still have it.
Report Post »Jennine
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 11:49amWell said.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:49pm“Mormons do not have killing infidels as part of their religion.”
Just that those of dark skin are cursed by God. But hey! Racism is totally cool too, right?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:16pmGod, in the old testament, cursed cain, and all of the Canaan decendents. That much is recorded in the Old Testament. The curse was that they would be servants of servants. You can look it up yourself. God also, at times, cursed Israel with some pretty potent curses. The idea that some are cursed in one way or the other is not a new idea in the scriptures. However, those that are cursed are generally cursed as a blessing for their particular needs. When Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden the “ground was cursed for their sake.” In other words, the curse was meant as a blessing, even though they may not have recognised what the nature of that blessing would be.
Genesis 9:25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
Genesis 9:26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Genesis 9:27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:28pmKmichaels,
Old Testament God was cranky. If that’s your point, I agree. However, it was Brigham Young who taught that the Curse of Ham applied specifically to blacks, barring them from the priesthood… a teaching that stayed until a revelation in 1978.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:28pmpure mormon racism. wouldn’t let black people become priests until the 1970s.
Report Post »LibertyGoddess
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:41pmMormons and blacks…you mean like the 4 million Evangelicals registered with the KKK at the turn of the century?
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:47pm“Mormons and blacks…you mean like the 4 million Evangelicals registered with the KKK at the turn of the century?”
why don’t you post your proof?
oh and who was it that freed the slaves? not you mormons!!
and brigham young said the civil war was ‘useless’ do you think it was?
I know you won’t answer…LOL
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:49pmBrigham Young: Death to inter-racial couples:
“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the WHITE man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the PENALTY, under the LAW OF GOD, IS DEATH ON THE SPOT. THIS WILL ALWAYS BE SO.” (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 110)
Brigham Young states that slavery is a divine institution:
“Ham will continue to be servant of servants, as the Lord decreed, until the curse is removed. WILL THE PRESENT STRUGGLE FREE THE SLAVE? NO; but they are now wasting away the black race by thousands…. “Treat the slaves kindly and let them live, for HAM MUST BE THE SERVANT OF SERVANTS UNTIL THE CURSE IS REMOVED. Can you destroy the decrees of the Almighty? YOU CANNOT. Yet our Christian brethren think that they are going to overthrow the sentence of the Almighty upon the seed of Ham. THEY CANNOT DO THAT, though they may kill them by thousands and tens of thousands.”
Report Post »(Millennial Star, Vol. 25, page 787; also published in Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, page 250)
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:08pmThe klan had aprx 4 million members in 1920, 6 million in 1924. The primary makeup of the KKK was white protestant. The number of lynchings that these white protestants did was aprx 4800 individuals. 3400 blacks and 1400 whites. The majority of those that got lynched were members of other Christian religions. Many evangelicals from the south had relatives that could be traced back to KKK membership that was directly involved in mass murder.
The KKK especially hated members of Christian religions that were not white protestant themselves. Their primary enemy was Catholics, whom they considered not true Christians. They also did not consider blacks true Christians.
The similar spirit that invades the likes of bigots Joe1234, hankscram, etc, was commonplace amongst the members of the KKK.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:22pm“The klan had aprx 4 million members in 1920, 6 million in 1924. The primary makeup of the KKK was white protestant. ”
post your proof…you can’t you lying piece of garbage.
president wilson was a big fan of the KKK….a PROGRESSIVE…would you call him a ‘fundamentalist christian’ I think not.
“The similar spirit that invades the likes of bigots Joe1234, hankscram, etc, was commonplace amongst the members of the KKK.”
you are a lying racist gutless POS. you wouldn’t have the guts to tell me that to my face.
and we all know it.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:33pm[JOE1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:22pm
“The klan had aprx 4 million members in 1920, 6 million in 1924. The primary makeup of the KKK was white protestant. ”
post your proof…you can’t you lying piece of garbage.]
Hey, dimwit, do your own research. It is historic fact that the bulk of the KKK was, number one, white, and number two, protestant. Use some logic you small minded jackarse. Some obvious points to consider. One, the KKK disliked Catholics. So that rules out Catholics from their group. The KKK hated blacks, so no blacks in the group. Now envision who is left. WHITE PROTESTANTS. This is a simple logic exercise to help you understand. Otherwise, you can research their stats with some simple searches.
So, Joe1234, blow it out your behind, you dimwitted bigoted troll. Because you and the KKK share the same asinine biased approach to things. Apparently you are a slow learner.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:40pm“So, Joe1234, blow it out your behind, you dimwitted bigoted troll. Because you and the KKK share the same asinine biased approach to things. Apparently you are a slow learner.”
still fixated on my behind aren’t you?
its rather obvious you’re a bottom.
no surprise you have no proof for your lies and BS…..you follower of a false prophet and worshiper of a false christ….you’re a satan worshipper.
Report Post »SICKOFPCNESS
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:34amStanding up for God and his word has become so uncomfortable to the world that anyone who does it is a moron. (in the worlds eyes) The fact is the pastor was right.When God wants someone to see a vision/book, I find it hard to believe he needs to give him a pair of glasses to read it. This is one of many ideas that the Mormons hold to that are more than a bit questionable. I love Glenn Beck but as much as he seeks the truth about things how he can buy some of the Mormons beliefs is beyond me.
Huntsman is so far left that of course they love him. They love him as they vote for BHO.
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:06amI agree with Mika, “Just call someone who’s a moron a moron.” So I will do just that. Mika, you’re a moron.
Report Post »Scarborough is just jealous, like the rest of the media, because their ratings blow. Maybe they could try speaking the truth and stop being just a mindless Democrat advertisement.
Walkabout
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 10:00am“Now it’s time for Congress to act by capping greenhouse-gas pollution.” -Huntsman
Huntsman also supports granting more H-1B visas to foreigners. -wiki
We need unemployment below3% or 5% before we allow more immigration.
Report Post »grannyrecipe
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:23amFolks, I’m not putting down Mormons, they are fine people, but the media is now going ‘Crap, we were waiting for the Republicans to nominate Romney so we could drag out the scary Mormon stuff‘ If you search Mormon on Youtube you’ll see all the stuff that would the Libs would bring to front and center if Romney is nominated…
Report Post »Vechorik
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:22amWho is the best Christian? Jeesh — what a discussion!
No one is perfect.
Glenn Beck’s “The Blaze” posted Ron Paul’s Values Straw Poll win in a news article. People were having a conversation there (thread) — until The Blaze DELETED Paul’s win article and REPLACED it with the typical “Ron Paul supporters stuffed the ballot box article” I was crushed. Can’t every candidate get supporters there to “stuff the box?” I felt The Blaze was very unfair to do that to Presidential candidate, Ron Paul. Why not leave both articles as long a time period as they leave others?
When O’Reilly comes on, I switch the channel to FOX BUSINESS news, Judge Napolitano on “Freedom Watch” Ron Paul appears regularly. Maybe that’s why they ridicule Dr. Paul on the regular Fox News station. Last time Dr. Paul was on O’Reilly, Bill wouldn’t let him speak (you know how Bill is sometimes) so Dr. Paul just decided Bill wasn’t a journalist who wanted the full story. Simple as that. I don’t like Bill since the sex scandal, wife leaving and such anyway, prefer Napolitano.
“If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” -Alexander Solzhenitsyn, novelist, Nobel laureate (1918-2008)
Report Post »blazingaway
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:06amThese idiots on MSNBC always feel as if they are “walking on Egg shells and that blood side-kick women always acts as if she’s sitting on them. It feels like the most awkward, uncomfortable commenting and Joe is just a jackass. Huntsman is a RINO
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:51amMSNBC–I can’t recall any program on that network I waste my time on. The Secular /pro-Obama /already captured media wants this distortion of facts be stirred up into a national debate. Huntsman is a LOSER– I could NO more trust him in political Office than I could Mitt Romney. No doubt Mormons believe they are Christian. and some are (like Pastor Jeffress said -when he was approached by reporters for a statement) some are “good Moral individuals” .I know a few Muslims who likewise believe they have improved /corrected Scripture. I know Roman Catholics who truly believe everyone else is almost Christian. But more important I know what I can reconcile to what is written in Scripture– and what I have read of American history .The rest are free to believe what they will. I cannot vote for Mitt Romney -because I cannot trust him to defend the Law DOMA . He did not defend “Marriage” in Mass. Why would he as President. He provided the Deceiver in chief with a Health Care takeover plan –and I find no reason to believe Romney is going to reverse Obamacare.
Report Post »The attack on Pastor Jeffress benefits just two politicians — Obama — and Mitt Romney.
Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:02amMormonism isn’t a cult; it’s a religion. It might be regarded as a cult by Evangelicals, but it’s an improper use of the term. As there are over 14 million Mormons, it’s far passed the “cult” status of a few thousand worshippers.
It’s not a Christian religion (assuming you follow the Bible, which Mormons do not), but neither is it a cult. Accuracy is important in these things.
Report Post »fastfox86
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:11amMormons, do follow the Bible and do believe it is indeed the word of God. Please do your homework before posting more inaccuracies to feed the flames of religious bias.
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:19am@LOCKED: Mormons are Christians. Anyone who professes a faith in Christ is considered a Christian. It doesn’t matter if you are Catholic, mainline Protestant or Eastern Orthodox, if you believe in Jesus as your personal Saviour then you are among the Christian brotherhood.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:34amThe word “cult” simply means worship, or a set of religious beliefs. Old Testament scholars will speak of the Israelite cult when referring to Israelite worship or beliefs. Modern definition of the term has taken it to mean something else.
Mormonism is not Christianity, and has no ties to historic Christianity. Indeed it claims another history altogether (ie., true Christianity as found in the Americas) while paying lip service to the Christian scriptures. Mormonism has no connection to the apostolic church, but instead creates a new priestly system, a different apostolic understanding, a separate cult of worship from the historic church.
Cut off from the true church, Mormonism is something of a rogue religion, placing heavy emphasis on strange concepts such as eternity of earthly marriage relationships and food storage.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:35amBigsky,
Report Post »Christians believe that Christ is God incarnate, 1/3 of the trinity, inseperable from God, God in the flesh. Mormons do not believe this. Professing faith in someone you do not believe to be God is not Christianity, sorry.
Rex Corvinus
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:39am@Locked
Mormonism, as founded by Joseph Smith, Jr., does indeed fit the theological definition of a Christian cult, in that it: (a) claims to be orthodox Christianity; while (b) adhering to doctrines & practices which contradict those of traditional orthodox Christianity which were historically-expressed in formal statements, like the creeds; and (c) gathers itself around a single person’s (non-orthodox) interpretation of the Bible to the rejection these more-generally accepted doctrines. Mormonism is not a distinct non-Christian religion; it claims to be Biblical Christianity but fundamentally disagrees with certain orthodox doctrines. The membership size of a group has nothing to do with whether that group is a “cult” or a separate religion.
And saying that Mormon‘s don’t follow the Bible is idiotic. Of course they do. They just have a seriously different interpretation of some of its major doctrines.
@fastfox86
“Mormons, do follow the Bible and do believe it is indeed the word of God.”
Yes, but unfortunately those aren’t the doctrines that make Mormonism heretical.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:45am@Fastfox
As far as I am aware, the Book of Mormon serves as the basis for religion. Whereas the Bible would claim God is a divine being, Mormonism claims he has a physical body living on a planet near Kolob, physically had sex with Mary to impregnate her, and that Jesus was not the final prophet. Oddly, none of this appears in the Bible. Hence my exact wording: Mormons don’t follow the Bible; they follow the Book of Mormon and use the Bible as a reference.
@Bigsky
“Mormons are Christians. Anyone who professes a faith in Christ is considered a Christian.”
By that line of thinking Muslims are also considered Christians, as they believe in Jesus as the Messiah. Yet I find it difficult to believe that many people on this board would consider Islam a Christian religion! I agree that Catholics, Protestants, and Eastern Orthodox are all Christian religions; they all consider the Bible as the sole Word of God. Which Bible depends on the version used, but most translations are similar; also similar is that, unlike Mormonism, they have not added separate literature that supersedes biblical scripture when the texts differ.
Report Post »Rex Corvinus
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:46am@WSGAC
That is indeed the sociological use of the term “cult”, and many contemporary OT scholars use the word as a value-neutral sociological designator rather than a theological one (which implies the existence of an accepted standard from which the “cult” improperly deviates). Sociologically, “cult” and “sect” are generally synonymous. The sociological use, however, is hardly the exclusive definition of the term.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:49am@Rex
“The membership size of a group has nothing to do with whether that group is a “cult” or a separate religion.”
I was arguing from a non-theological point of view; namely the literal definition and legal status of cult and religion. A cult is a small group of worshipers, which Mormonism is decidedly not; and as far the US government is concerned, it is a true religion with all the rights, privileges, and limitations as due any other. You may very well be right when it comes to the theological discussion, as I’m not familiar with it (or if, indeed, there is any consensus on what makes a belief set a religion or a cult… most times it seems to be the adherents say religion and the antagonists claim cult).
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:09amIn RESPONSE to the statement:
“Anyone who professes a faith in Christ is considered a Christian.”
Does this include Satan? He knows Christ all to well!
Many who call Him Lord Lord, He does not know. (not verbatim but look it up)
God is GOOD … Blessings to all!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:21am@Joe
““Anyone who professes a faith in Christ is considered a Christian.”
Does this include Satan? He knows Christ all to well!”
No, because professing a faith in Christ is different than “knowing” Him.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:30am@MARSHALJOHNS – Uhhhh, nice try! Did you happen to read the whole article? Specifically the sentence: “The last of the large mammoths died out between 12,000-10,000 years ago.”
That would mean elephants in the Americas were gone long before the Joseph of Genesis was born.
Report Post »Joe Schmuck
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:31am@Locked
Got me …! Thanks ..
Faith is from the heart .. not the head.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:38am@JOESCHMUCK – “Faith is from the heart .. not the head”
And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart soul and MIND. Matt 22:37
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:36pm[WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:34am
The word “cult” simply means worship, or a set of religious beliefs. Old Testament scholars will speak of the Israelite cult when referring to Israelite worship or beliefs. Modern definition of the term has taken it to mean something else.
Cut off from the true church, Mormonism is something of a rogue religion, placing heavy emphasis on strange concepts such as eternity of earthly marriage relationships and food storage.]
A good example of that wacky idea of food storage happened with Joseph, one of the 12 sons of Israel in the Old Testament. He, using the power of God, interpreted a dream of the Pharoah which lead to a nationwide food storge program. This lead to the 11 other sons of Israel being saved, BY FOOD STORAGE, and entering into Egypt. All part of God’s plan.
Eternal marriage makes sense and is a beloved tenent of Christ’s gospel. Some (who dislike their wives) may not like the idea of it. Their choice.
Christ, cut off from the old testament, was a rogue individual. He added new scripture, etc. Same pattern of complaints could be made against Christ that are currently made against the LDS people.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:46pm@Kmichaels
“Christ, cut off from the old testament, was a rogue individual. He added new scripture, etc. Same pattern of complaints could be made against Christ that are currently made against the LDS people.”
Well, except that Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies and lead people to salvation and eternal life, making the New Testament the final word for Christians. Whereas the Mormons and Muslims (among other, later denominations and religions) follow newer prophets who claim, whoops, the Bible and Jesus‘s words in it aren’t enough for salvation.
Report Post »kvn4th
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:10pmHmm……. Mormonism not a Christian religion? Really? How about this…. It’s the original Christian religion. A warning though….the more you study, the more you will become convinced of the truth.
Remember, you were warned.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1894161009
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:22pm[Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:46pm
@Kmichaels
“Christ, cut off from the old testament, was a rogue individual. He added new scripture, etc. Same pattern of complaints could be made against Christ that are currently made against the LDS people.”
Well, except that Christ came to fulfill the Old Testament prophecies and lead people to salvation and eternal life, making the New Testament the final word for Christians. Whereas the Mormons and Muslims (among other, later denominations and religions) follow newer prophets who claim, whoops, the Bible and Jesus‘s words in it aren’t enough for salvation.]
You are such a conniving putz. The same could be said that Jesus did not believe that the words of God were not enough in the Old Testament. Your argument that there would never be any new scriptures is just retarded at best. You show no logical reason for a stopping up of the words of God.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:50pm“You are such a conniving putz. The same could be said that Jesus did not believe that the words of God were not enough in the Old Testament.”
Except for the part that the Old Testament specifically calls for a Messiah, and Jesus came and fulfilled the prophecies. So… no, not remotely the same.
“Your argument that there would never be any new scriptures is just retarded at best. ”
Report Post »Hey, it could be worse. I could try claiming that we can become gods ourselves, or that God the Father has a physical state on a planet in the distant solar system, and yet still claim to be following the Bible.
kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:05pm[Locked
Except for the part that the Old Testament specifically calls for a Messiah, and Jesus came and fulfilled the prophecies. So… no, not remotely the same.]
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
This was spoken by Christ after he was resurrected. It is logical that those other sheep would record their dealings with Christ and what he told them.
No doubt the idea of Christ’s influence reaching the other millions of worlds beyond ours would be too much for your small mind to grasp as well. However, my God is a universal God, with powers that extend beyond one world out of trillions and trillions of worlds.
Report Post »by faith
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:12pmKVN4th
Hmm……. Mormonism not a Christian religion? Really? How about this…. It’s the original Christian religion. A warning though….the more you study, the more you will become convinced of the truth.
the book of Mormon claims after Jesus rose from the dead and assended, he came to “America”
Report Post »How does this make it the original Christian Religion? Since he left Peter with the keys to the kingdom and that whole “rock I will build my church” thing.
Chronologically speaking of course
Jacob Malachi
Posted on October 12, 2011 at 1:34am@KVN4TH = Thank you for sharing the link. I really enjoyed reading the pastor’s testimony.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:47amWhy is it OK for Huntsman to denigrate Christian beliefs but not OK for Jeffress to bash Mormon beliefs? At least Jeffress didn’t call Romney a “moron”. The fact the Christians view Mormonism as a cult is nothing new. I’m sure Huntsman and Romney are aware of that.
Report Post »kralspaces
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:08amI was just getting to comment the same. Ditto.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:11amDid you know that elephants once inhabited North America? The Book of Mormon says so!
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:20amWSGAC
Report Post »I lost my magic glasses so, I never read that, do tell.
WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:38am@GONZO – See Ether 9:19
Report Post »marshalljohns
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:14amhttp://www.ansp.org/museum/jefferson/otherFossils/mammuthus.php
Report Post »Elephant fossils have been found in North and Central America for years.
KAHILI
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:33amGonzo- “the fact that Christians view Mormonism as a Cult”. I think you mean “the fact that EVANGELICALS (teach there flock) to view Mormonism as a Cult is better suited. Evangelicals don‘t speak for all of ’Christianity’.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:34am@MARSHALJOHNS – Read the entire article. Did you happen to read the whole article? Specifically the sentence: “The last of the large mammoths died out between 12,000-10,000 years ago.”
That would mean elephants in the Americas were gone long before the Joseph of Genesis was born.
Report Post »joemayo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:42amSo let me get this straight… You look to science to make your mind up about religion? So what do you do when atheists tell you about evolution?
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 12:17pm@JOEMAYO – It is science that wrote the article. It is science that you cite to show that elephants once lived in the Americas. But when that same science demonstrates that elephants…even Wooly Mammoths, did not exist with the Mayans, Incans, or Aztecs, you want to discount that science?
Talk about picking and choosing the science that would confirm your erroneous beliefs in fictitious people called Nephites.
More baloney from Moroni….and moron is in his name!
Report Post »joemayo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:15pmI cited no evidence. What are you talking about? You seem like a religious person that studies the scriptures, but if someone that disagreed with the Bible was to try and convince you of the incorrectness of it, they would more then likely talk about evolution and call you crazy because science says the bible is incorrect. So where do you get off calling another religion incorrect by using science?
I never have read any scripture passage that says, ‘if ye seek to know the truth, ask your local scientist’. But if thats what makes your decision, go for it.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 1:42pm@JOEMAYO – The Book of Mormon speaks of elephants existing at a time you believe Nephites walked in the Americas. There are no elephants in the Americas.
Someone posted a link to me showing that Wooly Mammoths once lived in North America, but the link also states that the Wooly Mammoth went extinct 10,000 – 12,000 years ago.
Can you give evidence of elephants existing in the Americas 3,000 – 4,000 years ago?
Report Post »joemayo
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 2:00pmCan you give me evidence that God created the earth? I’ll wait for you to find the correct science journal with your answer
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 3:30pmWSGAC is all over the map so you’ll have to excuse his inconsistencies and his apparently jumbled mind. He demands proof of the Book of Mormon but accepts the fact that there is neither proof of God nor proof of Christ. If it were not for double-standards WSGAC would have no standards at all. And taking cue from is example, SAC is in his name, as in SAC-O-CRAP
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 4:58pmKMICHAELS, I was responding initially to MARSHALLJOHNS, the JOE chimed in. MJ answered my post questioning the Moroni statement about elephants by supplying a link to an article stating that Wooly Mammoths inahbited the Americas….apparently used to confirm Ether 9. Only problem is that Wooly Mammoths were long extinct by the time the baloney Nephites are purported to have existed.
JOE, no I can’t prove God created the earth, but archeology confirms the Bible all the time. Can you give any archeological evidence that would confirm elephants in the Americas 3,000 – 4,000 years ago? Can you give any archeological evidence that Incans, Mayan or Aztecs ever referred to themselves as Nephites, Lamanites, Jaredites or Mulekites? Can you give any etymology on the name Mosiah? Mos is Egyptian, while “iah” is of semitic origin. Never do we see such conflation in names in the ancient near east. Can you explain?
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 5:48pm[WSGAC
JOE, no I can’t prove God created the earth, but archeology confirms the Bible all the time.]
Actually, no, that is not true. Archeology confirms that hebrews lived in the general area. Not that the stories of the hebrews or those that followed, recorded in the bible, are necessarily true. Also, there is no evidence that Joseph, or his 11 brothers, and their decendents, were ever held as slaves in Egypt. There is no evidence of Moses being there, and or that he held a high position there. There is no evidence that Joseph was in Egypt and or that he held a high position in the Egyptian government at that time. There is no evidence that Jesus as a person existed in Jerusalem, or was crucified, etc. Apparently faith does not require scientific evidence.
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:15pmKMICHAELS said, “There is no evidence that Jesus as a person existed in Jerusalem, or was crucified, etc. Apparently faith does not require scientific evidence.”
There is plenty of extrabiblical evidence that he existed and was crucified. Apparently you’re one of those Zeitgeist nutballs? And you apparently think that faith is separate from history? So why not believe in the easter bunny moroni follower?
God sent an angel to me telling me of secret gold plates that I unearthed, upon which were inscribed the words, “all dogs go to heaven, and all cats go to hell.” It takes faith to believe it…so believe it!
Kuckooo…Kuckooo…Kuckooo!
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:41amJeffress is a moron for simply calling out the baloney from Moroni? Priceless!
Report Post »krahmk
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:33amShockingly, the “intellectuals” on MSNBC did not discuss the veracity of what the pastor said. They only went with how what Huntsman said vs what the pastor said made them FEEL. It didn’t FEEL good to hear that so he must be a moron. The pastor has courage. He stated an uncomfortable fact that Mormonism is considered a cult. He did not say that it disqualified the Mormons from office.He said that Perry should be given preference. Between Obama and Romney, he would vote for Romney.
I don’t like either of the Mormons in the race, but that is based on their policies, not their religion. I would rather have someone in office who shares my values, but may not share my theology than to have someone who shares my theology and not my values (thank you Dennis Prager).
If the candidates were equal on policy, I would probably use the theology as a tie breaker.
All this being said, I am not a big fan of Perry either. I think he, like Romney and Huntsman are big government, big corporation bureaucrats.
We need a candidate who encourages us to turn to each other for help, and NOT to the government. I am still searching. I wish Allen West would run….
Report Post »kralspaces
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:05amMr. Moral, Dennis Prager. What a patient man. I don’t get him on the radio in way out here but I do read his commentaries.
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:23amI don’t think either Mormon is Mormon enough. Just look at their political views, it’s outside of mainstream Mormonism and Christianity in general.
Report Post »Mountain Dew
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:27amMeh. I don’t like Scarborough or Huntsman but centering on one comment and entitling this post as “attack on Beck viewers” is a little bit of a stretch. And Huntsman isn’t doing anyone any favors by stoking up the fire with personal attacks. Boring topic anyway.
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:28amHuntsman ain’t going to be nominated, so this dust up is moot at best. Huntsman is wasted space and time.
Report Post »GulfPeg
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:25amEnough on religion! The “born again Christians” do this every time. The next thing is abortions – wait and see. THE IMPORTANT ISSUES FOLKS ARE THE ECONOMY & JOBS! It is not religion or abortions. So, stop it!
Report Post »DNC TALIBAN
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:32amI used to respect Scarborough, but he has been working over at MSNBC and has lost his way. when the filthy liberals are done with him they will toss poor joe aside, and he will have burned to many bridges by then.
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:34amObama has a great record to run on if you are willfully unemployed, a pervert, hate America or a fence hopping illegal milking the system.
Report Post »OKLAPatriot
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:05amI’ve been saying this same thing for a long time….
Report Post »Vechorik
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:24amAmen. The economy is at breaking point and people worry about “Who is the best Christian?” Jeesh
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:30amTax payer funded abortions and illegal immigrants sucking the lifeblood out of this country are a drain on the economy.
Report Post »pg3712
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:35amGulfpeg. Does that mean you would sell your immortal soul for a job and some greenbacks?
Report Post »GulfPeg
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:51amHey PG3712:
Report Post »Are you going to pay for my food & mortgage?
Annie Fields
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:22amI saw Scarborough’s statement live and it struck me that he was slamming Beck for being a Mormon, as opposed to how he usually slams him, which is oozing with unattractive envy.
I watch them every morning because I want to see what the lefty’s are plotting/propagandizing. Know what I’ve noticed lately? Beck’s right about their masks being off. Their racism is showing. It’s STUNNING how dismissive they are of Herman Cain. STUNNING.
Oh… Good… They’ve got Cornel West coming on. He just accused Cain of being on a crack pipe.
*sigh*
http://www.anniefields.com/blog
PLEASE DONATE TO HERMAN CAIN 2012. YOU CAN CLICK THROUGH TO DONATE AT MY BLOG. PLEASE SET UP A RECURRING DONATION, EVEN IF IT’S ONLY $5 A MONTH!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:59amJust to clarify something you said, bashing someone based on a belief system isn’t racism. Prejudice for sure, but not based on race. Not every act of hate is racism.
You might of course been talking about race, but as that has nothing to do with the subject at hand (Scarborough dissing Beck and Mormons) maybe you were posting in the wrong article?
Report Post »drago
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:21amSomewhere there is a zoo missing a rino (huntsman), and a village missing an idiot (scarborough).
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:29amJoe is just a saggy faced adulturous wannabe news personality that will never have respect amongst his peers after what he did to his wife.
Report Post »KEA
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:17amAnd it took BHO how long to back away from Reverand Write? What a despicable group of people.
Report Post »borismolly
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:14amMika loves Huntsman – kind of makes me want to run from him. Joe calls out Glenn Beck viewers? They once again call out the two members of a 5500 member audience for booing a gay serviceman without mentioning that it was TWO people out of thousands. Joe spent show after show making fun of Glenn when he was warning about all the chaos and unrest in the middle east, europe and now america. When things that Glenn predicted started happening, Joe was suddenly silent about Glenn. Now, out of the blue, he is putting the Glenn Beck audience in the mix of a lone minister who calls Mormonism a cult? He does know that Glenn is a Mormon, right? Mika said to call out morons – it is so tempting to call out Joe and Mika. I will happily stick with Glenn. He deals in facts, he has integrity and he is honest.
Report Post »demint.disciple
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:21am@borismolly,, Those two people didn’t even boo the service man they booed the question.. Even you think they booed the gay serviceman .. Can you stop listening to the LSM and actually watch the tape please..
Report Post »borismolly
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 9:28amDemint.disciple
I actually watched the debate and you are splitting hairs. My belief is that the media and our president are disingenuously painting an audience of 5500 with the same brush based on two people who booed. We don’t know why they were booing, who or what they were booing about, who they are, and frankly we should not care. It became a huge talking point for the msm and Obama used it in his campaign speeches. Once again diverting discussions from what is really important and warping reality.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:12amIf you believe the baloney from Moroni, you too might be a moron!
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:26amI am proud to be a “moron” per your end all be all all profound definition.
Report Post »WSGAC
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:35amIgnorance is bliss, as they say!
Report Post »WhiteFall
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 8:17amWSGAC- You and Jeffress keep calling us out on our freedom of religion and our right to believe. I don’t believe the following words are baloney.
Report Post »“And now, my beloved brethren, and also Jew, and all ye ends of the earth, hearken unto these words and believe in Christ; and if ye believe not in these words believe in Christ. And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ, and he hath given them unto me; and they teach all men that they should do good.”
“Behold I have given unto you my agospel, and this is the gospel which I have given unto you—that I came into the world to do the will of my Father, because my Father sent me.
And my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; and after that I had been lifted up upon the ccross, that I might draw all men unto me, that as I have been lifted up by men even so should men be lifted up by the Father, to stand before me, to be judged of their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil—
And for this cause have I been lifted up; therefore, according to the power of the Father I will draw all men unto me, that they may be judged according to their works.
And it shall come to pass, that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before my Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world.”
JohnnyRed
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 6:59amyup!
Report Post »pscully17
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:11amwhats also interesting is, I watched ed shultz and Odonnells shows on msnbc, ( inbetween commercials of football) and whats funny is, they had a segment about Scott Walkers recall, had a democrat activist on from wisconsin.. they need 500,000 signatures in 60 days. The dem Committe rep says ” Walker lied to the Public during the campaign.. he didnt tell us how he would govern, and fix the budget” hmmm sounds like how Obama campaigned huh..? and then shultz slighted Fox and friends for picking out isolated MORONS of the Occupy Movement who dont broadly represent the whole Movement… hmmm kind of like you did during your demonic villification of the teaparty, in a much more incideous and vile way…. it sucks when we play the game the way you do, doesnt it ED?
Report Post »TelepromoterNChief
Posted on October 11, 2011 at 7:32amPlease do not make chubby Ed cry again.
Report Post »