Is Jesus Christ a Socialist?
- Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:37pm by
Billy Hallowell
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As the debate over the government’s debt and its role in assisting the poor intensifies, some on the far left have begun to claim that Jesus Christ and the Holy Bible advocate socialism and preach against capitalism.
While this notion gives many conservative Christians angst, it is an ideal that is quickly gaining steam among atheists (and some left-leaning believers) who find themselves more on the fiscally-liberal side of the political spectrum.
Last week, atheist Gregory Paul, a freelance researcher, author and illustrator, penned a piece for the Washington Post in which he claims that socialism has its roots in the Christian Bible. In his article, Paul questions why Christians have abandoned the socialistic inclinations espoused by Jesus Christ to embrace capitalistic beliefs that contradict, in his view, Biblical principles.
Paul contends that “a set of profound contradictions have developed within modern conservative Christianity.” These contradictions are so perplexing, he says, that they “set one’s head spinning.” In Paul’s eyes, Christians who denounce Darwin’s evolutionary science, yet espouse social Darwinism (i.e. capitalism) are doing so without examining the antithetical nature of their thinking. He writes:
Many conservative Christians, mostly Protestant but also a number of Catholics, have come to believe and proudly proclaim that the creator of the universe favors free wheeling, deregulated, union busting, minimal taxes especially for wealthy investors, plutocrat-boosting capitalism as the ideal earthly scheme for his human creations.
In citing examples straight from the Bible that he calls “outright socialism of the type described millennia later by Marx,” Paul pleads his case. The first example he gives is focused upon Jesus’ warning to the wealthy that they may not inherit the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:24, which reads, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”). Then, Paul seizes upon the book of Acts. Acts 2:42-47 reads:
They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. Everyone was filled with awe at the many wonders and signs performed by the apostles. All the believers were together and had everything in common. They sold property and possessions to give to anyone who had need. Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
And then Acts 4:32-35 reads:
All the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of their possessions was their own, but they shared everything they had. With great power the apostles continued to testify to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And God’s grace was so powerfully at work in them all that there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned land or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles’ feet, and it was distributed to anyone who had need.
To Paul, these Biblical accounts, teamed with a story in chapter five in which a man and wife were stricken dead for failing “to turn over all…property to the church,“ constitute ”the first description of socialism in history.” Over time, Paul believes that Christianity has separated itself from the socialistic nature of its Holy Book. He writes:
The intellectual foundations for the alliance between capital and God were laid after the second world war by Catholic William Buckley, who, like some others contrived to maneuver around their churches’ skepticism about mercantile interests, worked to convert frugal church goers into materialistic consumers who spend their Sundays watching spectator sports and charging up interest loaded debt at the mall.
After reading this account of Christianity‘s origins and the Bible’s alleged economic contents, David French and Jordan Sekulow, attorneys for the American Center for Law and Justice (ACLJ), took serious issue with Paul’s assessment. Arguing that socialism is a relatively new construct, French and Sekulow dismiss the notion that Jesus was “pro-Socialist.”
Furthermore, the two legal minds do not see socialism as a “biblical mandate” and they write that the true question should not be, “Does the Bible mandate socialism?” Instead, they say critics and adherents, alike, should be asking, “Is socialism compatible with the Bible?” They write:
Mr. Paul interprets Jesus’s “substantial encouragement for the poor” and warnings against the moral pitfalls of wealth as support for socialism. Yet one has to travel quite the intellectual and theological distance to equate admonitions towards charity and warnings against greed with divine sanction for the destruction of private property rights and the forcible redistribution of wealth.
According to French and Sekulow, the man and wife who were stricken dead in Acts perished because of their deceit, not because, as Paul believes, they hadn’t turned all of their possessions over to the church. Also, they point out that in Luke, Chapter 10, Jesus says that “the worker deserves his wages” (clearly, this statement meshes more with capitalism). Expounding upon these ideas, French and Sekulow explain that there are other themes and statements in the Bible that contradict socialism’s tenets:
While the Bible calls us to help the poor, it is also clear that the poor must help themselves to the extent they are able. In 2 Thessalonians 3, Paul warns against idleness and says, “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.” In 1 Timothy 5, Paul also declares, “Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” Even inclusion on the widows’ “list” (which entitled widows to receive aid from the church) was conditioned upon age and good conduct.
They allege that socialism creates poverty, writing that the few remaining socialistic nations are stricken with economic deficiency and intense interdependence as a result of the economic system. Then, they tie the recent issues seen in Europe — London’s riots and Greece, Spain, Italy and Ireland’s economic woes — to failed experiments with socialism. Concerning these nations, they write:
Their idle but well-fed youth, demanding ever-more from a state they give nothing, are either in the streets or threatening chaos.
In the end, French and Sekulow believe that Christians have overwhelming rejected socialism because the Bible is contradictory to its underpinnings.
Jay W. Richards joins these writers in opposing Paul’s views. Richards’ commentary is a welcome addition, considering the fact that Paul cites one of his books in making his arguments against Christian capitalists. But rather than spending the entire piece defending himself, Richards focuses on the majority of the personalities Paul uses to make his point, writing:
Mr. Paul’s attempt to paint Christian defenders of the free market as “ardent followers of Ayn Rand” might be more successful if he had bothered to give examples. Instead, he mentions Milton Friedman, Alan Greenspan, the skeptic-comedians Penn and Teller, and atheist Michael Shermer. All of these gentlemen are libertarians, but none is a Christian.
Pointing out the fact that Paul didn‘t use Christians to back up his claims doesn’t necessarily contradict his theories. That said, one does wonder why believers weren’t explored in an article that was critiquing both the faith and its adherents. Richards concludes with the following words:
The Bible isn’t an economics textbook, but I and many other Christians believe its underlying principles are most consistent with the free economy. There are reasonable critiques of that opinion, but Gregory Paul’s is not one of them.
This debate is far from over, as both sides of the political spectrum seize upon the Bible as the basis for their economic beliefs. Do you think Jesus was a socialist? Take our poll, below:
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Comments (726)
martinez012577
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:55pmatheists talking religion. silly atheists.
DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:13pmIf you can’t even get His name right how can you pretend to understand His teaching? These probably also believe that it says anywhere in Scripture that Mary Magdalene was a prostitute –or that her name was even Mary! I suppose they believe there is a disciple with the english name “James” also?
Socialism huh? Thou shalt not steal. Yeah right.
Matt 25:
26 “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? 27 Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
28 “‘So take the bag of gold from him and give it to the one who has ten bags. 29 For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.
Look ma… I can make Scripture say whatever I want too by ripping out the context!!!
conservative510
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:18pmLet me get this straight. Atheists are citing the words of a guy they don’t believe in to justify marxism? Oooooo….kkkkkkkayyyyyy.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:21pmThe most important person to say Jesus Christ was a dangerous Socialist was Ayn Rand, if I remember correctly.
I was pretty sure her ultra-Capitalist life model did not respect the Christian ethics, if I got that right.
Danimal98367
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:21pmJesus telling us we need to care for the poor and having a government mandate it via FORCE is hardly the same thing. Voluntary care of the poor is what Jesus asked, a selfless act. To force a person to obey eliminates the heartful conversion.
Jesus taught to give to the poor, not to render to Ceaser what should go to the poor and have Ceaser figure it out . . .
Sheesh.
Report Post »Havok
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:22pmJesus wanted people to help others of their own free will.
Report Post »He DID not tell them to force their will on others and MAKE them do it.
The key is and always has been FREE WILL.
We choose to follow him or not.
turkey13
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:25pmWhen Jesus said to help those that can’t help themselves, he meant you not government to help. In many verse”s he said if a man won’t work to not help him. Jesus also said “ you will always have your poor”. Two thousand years later it is still true.
Report Post »Lonescrapper
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:26pmIf Christ was a socialist, then liberals would all be devout Christians ala Bachmann and Perry…
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:27pmI did a study on the verse he talks about, easier for a rich man to pass through the eye of the needle…
There were 2 gates into the city, one very large that allowed a camel to enter, and a smaller one within or beside that one that was only wide enough for a man to enter. At night they closed the big one to stop raiders, but kept the smaller one open, the eye of the needle. A rich man that was too attached to his worldly possessions wouldn’t go in to the city, because he would have to leave his stuff outside. Therefore, if you love God more than your possessions, you won’t pass through the narrow gate that leads to heaven. That’s because you are already with the item you worship, money. You can be wealthy and not WORSHIP money. Most Christians who are wealthy tithe and pay taxes plus give above and beyond their tithe to charity. My husband’s boss, who goes to our church, bought a bus and donated it to the church for trips. I know because my husband gets to fix it when it breaks down.
Report Post »SlimnRanger
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:29pmWell i hope the atheists keep reading the Bible,the more they read they will find that God is real and that Jesus is the son of God,that he was born of the virgin Mary,that he was hung on the cross and died for our sins,that he did arise the third day,that he did later accend back into Heaven,after showing him self to litterly hundreds maybe thousands of people,and that he he is coming back again,Praise God
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:34pmLoriann12, what a fascinating story about the needle and bus.
Ayn Rand would have knocked out the needle to blow past the poor guards with he possessions intact, and John Galt would have created a bus that would not break down so much.
Neither one of the would have given a second thought to Jesus Christ.
Report Post »HKS
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:43pmI thought he didn’t exist, now he’s a socialist. Sounds like someone is grasping at straws. They don’t know which end of the pencil is sharp, don’t know if their butt is board or punched, and all that stuff. Duds looking for some importance in life, pitiful, just pitiful.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:45pm@Sleazy Hippo
First I have to admit, I never read Atlas Shrugged, and had to look up your reference to the second person, a fictional character in the book. Not all capitalists are Christians, As a matter of fact, not all people that go to church are actually Christians. Some just think they’re saved. I know because I attended church for years before actually having a saving experience. I had to hit bottom before I realized I couldn’t fix my life without God. It is HARDER for a rich man to get into heaven, but not impossible. Just like it’s harder to save a “good” person who doesn’t see a need for God. Some are like me, and more stubborn than others.
Report Post »Wayner
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:46pmMarx said “from each according to his ability… to each according to his need…. Socialism would be the best form of government if it worked. But ahhhh herein lies the problem… As long as Satan is in the world and there is sin… greed will always rule… Only when Jesus sets up His perfect Kingdom will socialism work. When no one tries to take advantage of a weaker brother.
Report Post »freeus
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:48pmPerhaps atheists should stick to topics they much more familiar with, like sex and drugs.
Report Post »Marci
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:50pmThe only time atheists and leftists suddenly recognize Jesus is when it might benefit them in their agenda. Jesus was not a socialist—in that he did not advocate for an out of control overgrown government mandating poverty upon citizens while its leaders lived in luxury and refused to live by the rules they themselves mandate. I’ve seen this argument before—but it is their desperate hope that by appealing to WWJD that Christians will cave into it because supposedly Jesus advocated it. Socialism as a government model is borne of Satan—not Jesus or God.
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:54pmfunny thing … was jesus the leader of the government? was he working for the government? did he say to give everything to the government? nope.
was jesus a private sector person, who gave charitably? did he believe that the churches can help people more than the government? yes.
socialist? nope… charitable person? yes.
lead by example, not by force.
Report Post »dcrabb
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:56pmJesus was NOT a socialist, just look at many of the miracles he performed. When he healed the blind man, or the man lowered through the roof, Jesus didn’t approach the individual and say to those gathered around, “Hey, this guy’s blind or this guy has a palsy, take some money out of your pockets every month for the rest of your lives and pay to take care of them for the rest of their lives.” NO Jesus didn’t do that, he said to the man with a palsy, “Take up thy bed and walk,” and to the blind man, “Be thou healed”.
HE fixed the root cause of the problem, not the symptoms, and enabled those he healed to take care of themselves. HE did NOT set up a social welfare program to take from those that have to give to those that don’t.
Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, (do it long enough and you make him dependent upon you). Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a life time (and he can teach others and they can teach others and soon nobody needs anyone to give anyone anything, unless they’re too lazy to fish for themselves)
Socialism supporters need to read more History. No Socialist movement whether motivated by politics, religion, or society, etc actually worked, except at the point of a gun (USSR, Cuba, China). They’ve never gotten out of the 1st stage which Marx said would require a strong dictator to enforce socialism until the masses would finally realize what was good for them. Once the dictator seizes power they never want to give
Report Post »13th Imam
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:58pmNot being a religious scholar like some of you feel you are, I see this as a fact that Socialist types have existed since the beginning of man. There has always been Takers that don’t want to work for their wants or needs. They feel that other people should do the heavy lifting and they are owed the fruits of their labor. Takers usually see exactly what they want in the Bible or any other religious text.
Report Post »LibertarianForLife
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:09pmpeople following religion/believe in god at all.. silly fools.
Report Post »mils
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:17pmLIBERALS DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN GOD…how in hell would they have any idea what a man that lived 2000 years ago would do???? The whole thing is degrading to any religion that believes in jesus. …
Report Post »Stupid, pitiful liberals that will stoop to any level to be in control.
Honestly, ANYONE that thinks they know what jesus would have done in today’s pathetic society need to have their heads examined.
holy ghostbuster
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:50pm@SlimnRanger- does that mean if I keep reading Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs that I will eventually believe that the dwarfs and Snow White were real?
Report Post »getalong
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:52pmNO! Jesus was NOT a socialist. He would have thought socialism to be a horrendous way to treat other human beings. . When I hear someone say that Jesus hated rich people..it makes me want to scream. No, No, No, Jesus loved, loved, loved rich people. Why – because they used their God-given talents to achieve a good life. Why in God’s name would Jesus want a rich person who worked hard for what they have to give everything away and become homeless, desperate and poor. Jesus wanted those who worked hard, sacrificed and were responsible in their decision making to attain the best standard of living they could. Jesus wanted rich people to help those who were disabled and unable to work for themselves, but he left the decision in the hands of the benefactor NOT the government. Show me any verse in the Bible where Jesus condones Socialism. It does not exist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus was about equal justice!
Godseyesareonthem
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:10pmHere is a good example of cafeteria religion. They pick and choose which verse suits their agenda and take it totally out of context instead of sticking with the subject and object of the teachings of Jesus Christ, My King James does not say that. Apparently he has one of those bibles that has been fooled with and the words changed. GOD only sends understanding to those who have received Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Any one that listens to a fool is bigger fool than they are!!!
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:18pmI’ m not a Christian. The old testament makes
more sense to me. Christians treat Jesus as if he
IS God – 1 st Commandment states “Thou shalt
have no other gods before me.”
Finally, I have always thought that the word of
Jesus was Socialist . Look specifically for Jesus’
words throughout the bible – especially what
Matthew reports as the word of Jesus. I don’ t
understand how anyone can read the words
printed IN CONTEXT and walk away saying,
“Nope ! Clearly not a Socialist. ”
Don’ t dredge up what your preacher interpreted
for you. READ HIS WORDS.
Most of what I see in the comments here are postings of Socialist preaching by Jesus with “further explanation” by his adherants. You guys aren’t helping your cases. Just because Jesus didn‘t advocate forced Socialism doesn’t mean he wasn’t a Socialist in his preaching.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:24pmWas Jesus a socialist? Jesus is God.
Are we to be Socialist? Not by the Worldly termed used today.
Jesus showed us how to be servants, how to be humble, and how to put others interest before our own. (Love)
God puts all authorities in power and we are to submit and respect such authority when under their rule. Jesus does not lay out a plan on how to be socialist or how any Government should work technically. All we are to do is adhere to such Government whatever it is.
Jesus gave lessons on the personal life and the individual objective. Are we to hoard our wealth as individuals while someone sleeps on the street and is starving? NOPE because you can’t take what you hoard to Heaven. We should have faith God will provide and help/SERVE those who need our help without question. We are called to SERVE as Christians not hoard wealth and food like a squirrel waiting for Winter.
This nonsense of Jesus being Socialist or being Capitalist is nothing but for an agenda. Those doing such should be ashamed of themselves.
I will continue serving and helping any I can as our Lord Jesus Christ tells us regardless if the Government tells me to or not. God will provide.
Report Post »JimCDew
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:34pm@13TH IMAM – Anyone who reads scripture and thinks about what is meant is a religious scholar. Try it, it’s fun and enlightening and often brings truth to the closed mind. That said, be sure to take all versions of interpretation with a grain of salt and listen to the quiet voice in your heart.
Report Post »DisillusionedDaily
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:49pmJesus was not a socialist! The fact that the followers of Jesus sold possessions to help the needy proves that they practised charity. In socialism, the government takes money from the people as taxes and provides services for those who will not fend for themselves. There is a big difference!
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:51pmOkie…that’s what I thought…Is God a socialist?…if you think so, than you don’t know God.
Report Post »S G Applebee
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:01pmOf course Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal and a Socialist, but he wanted VOLUNTARY Socialism and not FORCED Socialism. You cannot deny HIS OWN words, or what happened after his death.
Jesus’ moral teachings:
Love your enemy.
Love your neighbor as yourself.
If a man steals your coat, give him the shirt off your back as well.
Do not resist him who is evil.
Turn the other cheek.
Jesus’ teachings on wealth. Are these Capitalistic or Communistic?
No one can be my disciple who does not give up all of his possessions.
Sell all your possessions and give to the poor.
Do not lay up for yourself treasures on earth.
Avoid greed in all its forms.
It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.
Blessed are the poor.
No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to one
and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.
And add to these the New Testament teachings that came RIGHT AFTER Jesus. The book of Acts describes how wonderful the early church was: “Not one of them claimed that anything belonging to him was his own; but all property belonged to all. Capitalistic or Communistic?
Or how about this from Corinthians: “Let no one seek his own good, but that of his neighbor.” Capitalistic or Communistic?
1st Timothy tells us “money is the root of all evil” and that rich people need to be “rich in good works” and be “rea
Report Post »Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:12pmThere’s more proof that Obama was born in Hawaii than that Jesus did any magic. Those are simply stories about a man that did exist. Just a man with good anti-capitalism ideas.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:28pm@GodLovinMom
Keep up God’s fight. Christians need no Government telling us whether we should or should not serve other. We freely do so because that is our purpose on Earth. It’s amazing how so many try to is God as an agenda.
@S G Applebee
I wouldn’t say Jesus is a socialist or liberal as this are worldly rigid terms.
Jesus was showing us how to love one another. Jesus was showing us loving our neighbor by turning the cheek, not hoarding wealth, and by helping anyone we can that needs it. Jesus was telling us don’t worry about the offense someone does to you, worry about the offense you commit by not helping this who need the help you can give. Jesus was showing us and telling us LOVE.
It isn’t socialistic to love.
1 John 3:16-24 tells us exactly what love is and it’s the exact same message as Jesus. Nothing to do with socialistic or not. ..
Report Post »OpenMindedToo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:35pmMy thoughts exactly. Unless you read the Bible in the Spirit, you aren’t going to fully grasp the meaning of what you are reading. You have to have the heart of Jesus to understand what he said.
Report Post »AG1776
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:40pmCorrect. Atheists have no ability to comment on what Jesus believed. One can only interpret the Scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit. You cannot have the Holy Spirit if you are an atheist. If he had the Holy Spirit, HE WOULDN’T BE AN ATHEIST. Therefore, Mr. Paul’s “study” is nothing but worthless speculation.
Report Post »OpenMindedToo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:40pmBravo, Loriann12. You got it absolutely right.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:51pmHi! Laurie Anne twelve
You are good at using the Internet, that is GOOD!
We Conservative Capitalists do NOT NEED a bunch of Social conservatives who are trying to present themselves as “independent grass root activists” instead of true blue PATRIOTS who want our Country Back from the Black Clouds of the Obummer Administration.
Report Post »MollyTheWhiteWolf
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:57pm@ S G Applebee: Actually, 1Timothy 6:10 says that “The LOVE of money is a root of all kinds of evil.” Money is not inherently evil. It’s what you do WITH it and what you do to GET it that leads to evil. Money itself is neutral. Both the rich AND the poor can be lead to evil by the lust for money.
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:07pmGod is creator of all things, Men manipulate reality for their own gain. Jesus teaches to be giving, in the name our father and creator. Men who take on those principles for their own gain, such as false religions like Roman Catholic, Mormonism, you name it, will be judged by the ultimate authority.
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:12pmYou’re all idiots who take a poll regarding God or Jesus this or that. God‘s next move doesn’t rest on what we think. He doesn’t care that much. Gods words is Social Justice. Live by his commands or suffer the consequence. Period.
Report Post »Tom16750
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:13pmI missed the part when the deciples sent all their money to Rome.
Report Post »Closest to the pin
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:14pmThe reason people see socialism in the Bible is because God’s ultimate plan for man (in heaven/the Garden pre-sin) is based on “abundance” so equality doesn’t matter because there is more than enough. The “here and now” is based on “lack” so socialism doesn’t work here. Paul clearly said, “if you don’t work you don’t eat,” and Jesus said we would always have the poor among us. Socialism here and now is a perversion of God’s will for mankind.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:28pmJesus was not an oppressor. He didn’t write a book called “Rules for Radicals” and dedicate it to Satan Beware of the beguiling of Satan. Liberals want total control, and will do “anything to accomplish their goals…anything..
Report Post »poverty.sucks
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:29pmYou idiots who participate in God & Jesus polls are being subject to deception. Using Gods name and likeness to scam you, because the majority think this or that, therefore you will be more perceptive to evil mindness if they word crap the way you like to see it.
This forum may seem all nice and cozy, beware, its a manufacturing facility, processing of data compilation of sorts.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:36pmJust so all will know.. Jesus IS GOD, and far be it from me,
Report Post »to call Him or refer to Him as anything but.. LORD !!
loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:54pm@MONICNE
mispelling my name is not going to make me mad, troll. And if you’re referring to the story of the eye of the needle, I didn’t get it off the Internet. Some of us actually study the Bible, using a Strong‘s and a book about the customs in Jesus’ day. Unlike you, some of us actually know facts. Josephus was a historian who admitted that there was a Jesus, son of Joseph. Admittedly, he didn’t go beyond that, didn’t admit he was the Messiah, but he was Jewish.
Report Post »Bonesaw
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:51pmJesus: Dont let money be your god. Help the poor and the widowed. In Acts they lived communally out of CHOICE, not command or edict. It was not a requirement.
Socialism: By rule of law nobody shall have more than anyone else. You do not have the choice or the ability to improve one’s standing.
In reference to the rich man Jesus told to give away his wealth, if it were a fat man Jesus would have said ‘give away all your food’. If he were a drunkard Jesus would have said “give away all your wine”.
So no Jesus was not a socialist. Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament, which is not socialist. The greater context of the bible is, “Love God, work hard, honor God, and he will increase your lands, your house and your wealth.” That does not sound like ANYTHING that Karl Marx would agree to in any manner or form.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:15pm“atheists talking religion. silly atheists.”
==============================
That comment wins the “pointing out the obvious” award for today!
http://www.AllenWestforPresident.us
Report Post »db321
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:46amIt is better to teach them how to fish rather than giving them fish.
Report Post »the berean
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:53amPlease read Galatians chap 1 and 2 all you who claim to have knowledge. There is ONE apostle through who God will impart wisdom in this age of grace. This simple principle will provide you with understanding and correction from this WIND OF DOCTRIN!
Report Post »Favored93
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:34amHAHAHAHAHA!
Report Post »Really!?!?!?! We now get lectured by atheists about Jesus!
The Bile teaches us as individuals to do and act differently then nations! Context matters!
De minimus
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 5:19amNot atheists, Marxists. Marxists who are trying to co-opt any Christian who will listen by using Christian belief against them and against the country, in order to destroy it and then control it. They’ve been telling the same lies for decades in order to achieve that goal. The only thing new is that the Media (Now hopelessly Marxist) refuse to report anything connected to their acquisition of power. Control the information and you control the public mind and their opinions as well.
Freedom cannot co-exist with them and that’s just fine with them, they don’t like it anyway because they are complete control freaks. Everything is appearance only. They hide their true intentions and what they think and what they are doing. They are able to do most of this because their Marxist friends deliberately manage your news for you so that you won’t think the “wrong way.” Which is also why you must get your news outside the country now, except for GBTV.
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 6:36amAtheists do this all the time… they believe their “intellect” is above all because they have placed themselves in a position that “they are god”. Then they misinterpret scripture to suit their needs or agenda. Funny, how they claim to be experts on the very thing they despise and don’t believe in. Why do they waste so much time trying to prove something wrong that they don’t believe in?
Anyway, Jesus never said “give to the poor through the government..” That’s all i have to say about that.
Report Post »louise
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 7:08amLoriann,
Report Post »Thank for you comments. I can Identify with what you posted.
For me, God had to show me my nakedness, and my need to be clothed (covered) in the blood of Jesus my Lord and Saviour.
one years food ration like glenn says
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 7:56amYeah even if he was he wasn’t an American where in America we believe in capitalism.. So what ?
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 8:49ami wonder how the forgiving of all debt every so many years, i can’t remember the number of years, would be viewed by the atheists.
Report Post »TEA4Me
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 9:01amI have absolutely no idea why, supposedly smart people are so blind to the obvious truth with regards to Jesus and his call to help the poor and needy. There are several passages in the Bible that are quoted in the article above that are supposed to prove that Socialism is the way of the Christ, but the truth is they do no such thing. In fact, they prove exactly the opposite.
Jesus said that the rich should sell all their possession and give their money to help the poor. In other words, they should be charitable. I fully agree (Capitalist, Conservative here…), but he says NOWHERE that government should TAKE the money from the rich and redistribute it to the poor. Charity isn’t charity if it is forced. It must be given of free will.
Socialism is a governmental ideology, and you cannot find its roots in Christianity. What Jesus is talking about all throughout the bible when he talks of helping the poor is not a function of government, he is talking about pure charity.
If all forms of “social justice” (welfare, food stamps, ect) were ended today, the poor would be no worse off. And within 5 yrs they would be BETTER off. Because if the government stopped spending tax money on entitlements, the private sector in this country would step in and provide all the essential services for the poor AND empower them to pull themselves and their families out of poverty without the aid of government. Then you would have a society filled with hope and promise, ins
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 10:09amJesus certainly spoke of sharing with the poor…Through charity and good will…You‘ll find no passage where Jesus ever said that the Government should control the means of production and dictate who get and who doesn’t.
Report Post »Socialism is forced charity that only breeds hate from the productive towards the non-productive.
Much like these hypocritic million and billionaires call for higher taxes on the rich. They have the ability to pay as much from their coffers as they think is fair. SO WHAT DO THEY DO INSTEAD OF PAYING MORE…THEY USE EVERY TAX LOOPHOLE AND BENEFIT THEY CAN TO REDUCE WHAT THEY PAY IN TAXES. Buffet for instance recieves all of his pay in capital gains intead of actual taxable pay and he pay only 17% an the millions he makes.
Here a biblical verse for all you leftist (You will know them by their actions not their words)
ScubaDog
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 10:10am@LibertarianForLife: And yet the Bible says, “A FOOL says in his heart ‘there is no God’”. Of course, God‘s existence doesn’t rely on your belief. You have, of course, free will. Mark my words, however…one day, EVERY knee will bow and EVERY tongue will confess Jesus is Lord.
And I’m excited to see so many people actually “get it” about the difference between government forcing & controlling redistribution of wealth and the voluntary, individual choice to provide for those in need. BTW, for those who said liberals don’t believe in God–many DO, it’s just that their secular philosophy is at odds with scripture. They are blind in those areas.
Report Post »DrFrost
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 10:14amDANIMAL nailed this one. There’s a very big difference from individuals choosing to help the poor and the government taking your money and giving it to the poor. Furthermore, anyone pushing Jesus as a socialist is going to have a very hard time explaining the parable of the talents.
Report Post »FreedomMissMeYet
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 10:45amJesus knew the people of his time were turning their temples into money markets and a corrupt pageantry. They were feigning true worship while actually worshiping their institutions, class system, and ancestors in an attempt to fool God. So, how’d that work out for them? Jesus portended in Matthew, “everything that can be shaken will be shaken…these rocks will be thrown down” and his prophecy was partially realized in 70AD when Rome overran the Temple throwing down rocks as large as 550 tons.
Socialism attempts to counterfeit the true word, by feigning free-will charity that’s from the heart and replacing it with institutional worship and covetousness. The devil corrupts the true word by adding to it or subtracting from it. And what a surprise, the atheists invite him in to do it!
I believe socialism is a top 3 deceit of our times that will not go unpunished.
Report Post »sweathog1948
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 11:01amA brother in the Lord who many know Walter Martin once said,” A text, taking out of context is a pretext.” He is so right, one must read the verses before and after the text to put it in the right context, which these men have not done, nor understand the spiritual side of the bible.
Report Post »ZengaPA65
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 11:30amJesus is an anti-semitic fundamentalist white right wing conservative Republican American. WTF! Everybody knows that.
Report Post »BuzAsUsual
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 11:32amNO NO, this is absolutely perfect!!! If Jesus was a socialist and socialism “is” Christianity…well, we can’t be mixing church and state! We are going to have to remove socialism completely!
Report Post »steve3
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 11:50amIt appears that many people are missing one of the main points of this argument. Including Warren Buffett & Ben Stein. They equate giving money to charity & the poor to A central government that chooses how to split up the bounty of taxes. If we were to look at the history of how governments have done this, they are very wasteful at best, what percentage actually get to the needy? the corruption of politicians who buy votes & waste money is missed. And the wost of all is the hundreds of millions of people murdered by governments that will kill & fight for the power that they receive from controlling all those taxes, property, banks, businesses, ect, ect ect.. Jesus hardly looked at any government as a charitable institution! “Give unto Cesar what is Cesars” is pay your taxes, not tithing or charity!
Report Post »Kalish
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:41pmJesus never advocated stealing other peoples money to give to others , (redistribution of wealth) He wanted people to be charitable, only if it came from their heart, not by force or stealing, which is what this current system does, especially to the wealthy that are overtaxed already, an atheist has no idea what Jesus is or Christianity is, only someone who is saved would understand this.
The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4
Report Post »teddie888
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:44pm….And, Marx was a Jew. Hmm
Report Post »Rightsofman
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:01pmAll His teachings were I -Thou not we – Thou. He taught that we alone are responsible for our relationship with God. Yeah He taught personal responsibility there. Read a bible before you ask atheist inspired ques., maybe even go to church.
Report Post »Woody1938
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:09pmThe Pope has stated that Capitalism is the best way to help the poor. By making money at honest work and giving it to different charities you help the poor more than giving the money to the government, having them take a slice of it, and pass whats left on to the poor with multitude strings attached. Giving money to the government to help the poor equates to keeping the poor enslaved.
Report Post »dawnday
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:36pmThe apostle Paul was talking to the CHURCH not the government to take care of the poor. He said “render unto Caeser that which is Caesar’.”
Report Post »pixiemarie
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 3:00pmagreed. Jesus is love and he is selfless. He urges us to try to be the same way. You give out of love because you want to help the less fortunate and because we are all God’s creatures. Not because of a goverment mandate. God’s middle man is the Holy Ghost not the goverment!!! ugh.
Report Post »GB Sofa King D U M
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 3:20pmIt is appropriate for a rational person, such as an atheist to logically challenge faith-based beliefs.
What would be inappropriate would be for one group of faith-based believers (Christians) to tell another group of faith-based believers (Muslims) what to believe based on faith.
Regardless, Jesus never called corporations people, threw over the money changers tables in the temple, and never claimed any property of his own…real free-market minded guy.
Report Post »SeriouslyFolks
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 3:58pmAlright. There are so many things wrong with his arguments, I can’t address all of them, but…
1. First and foremost, scripture is “God-breathed,” thus unless one has the Holy Spirit residing in him/her, he/she is unable to accurately interpret it. Refer to 2 Timothy 3:16-17:
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2. For example, his argument: “The first example he gives is focused upon Jesus’ warning to the wealthy that they may not inherit the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:24, which reads, “Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”).” This has nothing to do with financial wealth, but rather “spiritual” wealth. If one is rich in spirituality, then one inherits the Kingdom. Refer to point 1.
3. Sekulow is correct: 2 Thessalonians, as well as a ton of verses in Proverbs command us to work hard and not be lazy.
4. Fourth, Jesus himself said he did not come to offer peace: Matthew 10:34. “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword.
5. And, finally, @Conservative510 – right on!
Report Post »Baron_Doom
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 4:57pmSilly atheists. I’ve heard this argument for years now, and it always makes me laugh. There is a huge difference between a government seizing your earnings to give to someone else considered “needy” and someone who voluntarily gives to someone they consider needy. It’s called personal responsibility.
Report Post »Redneckpapist
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 5:01pmWhatever Jesus taught about property, He never seems to have advocated giving all your money to Caesar to distribute to the poor. Doesn’t sound socialist to me. (Doesn’t sound particularly capitalist either, since capitalism and limited liability corporations hadn’t been invented yet.)
Jesus doesn’t fit into our political categories. He transcends them.
Report Post »Shadow1075
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 5:03pmThe early Christians were definitely socialists. However, they weren’t STATE socialists. There’s a big difference.
Early Christians were libertarian socialists, which is a mix of voluntary wealth redistribution and belief in property rights. (Wikipedia has a good article on it, if you want to look it up.) Jesus didn’t do away with the law of Moses, which stated “thou shalt not steal,” yet state socialism was achieved by destroying property rights. Christ fulfilled the law. Love is the fulfillment of the law. In other words, “thou shalt not steal” moved to its highest fulfillment when Jesus required the believer to both respect property rights, have a right to the fruits of their own labor and, yet, STILL voluntarily give to the poor on a huge scale. This level of giving was so abundant that it could properly be said that the Christians “had all things in common.”
A more libertarian/classical liberal society would have a strong libertarian socialist element (i.e., there would be a heavy moral imperative and expectation that people voluntarily help the poor), but property rights would be protected in order to realize the necessary economic incentives for wealth to continue to be created on the remarkable scale it has been in this country under a free market. (Doing so also preserves incentives the poor need to become self-sufficient by leaving them in a state of relative scarcity.) This is also how the Founders intended it.
Report Post »madmamasunite
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 6:55pmAn atheist was seated next to a little girl on an airplane and he turned to her and said, “Do you want to talk? Flights go quicker if you strike up a conversation with your fellow passenger.”
The little girl, who had just started to read her book, replied to the total stranger, “What would you want to talk about?”
“Oh, I don’t know,” said the atheist. “How about why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death?” as he smiled smugly.
“OK,” she said. “Those could be interesting topics but let me ask you a question first. A horse, a cow, and a deer all eat the same stuff – grass. Yet a deer excretes little pellets, while a cow turns out a flat patty, but a horse produces clumps. Why do you suppose that is?”
The atheist, visibly surprised by the little girl’s intelligence, thinks about it and says, “Hmmm, I have no idea.”
To which the little girl replies, “Do you really feel qualified to discuss why there is no God, or no Heaven or Hell, or no life after death, when you don’t know s**t?”
And then she went back to reading her book.
Report Post »thepatriotdave
Posted on August 19, 2011 at 1:24amIs Jesus Christ a Socialist? No, he is the son of God!
http://www.AllenWestforPresident.us
Report Post »Lucy Larue
Posted on August 19, 2011 at 8:28pmMARTINEZ012577,
UGH! This is such desperation on the part of the Progressive left, to include the narcissistic, atheist branch.
It can be disproved with two of Jesus’s teachings.
Jesus said,“Love one another”. Socialists are devoid of love for their fellow man. Socialists love only themselves. They separate themselves from their fellow man while simultaneously trying to dictate through legislation what the behavior of their fellow man should be.
Jesus said,“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”. Socialists and their Atheist branch are NEVER tolerant of those they perceive as NOT LIKE THEM. Socialists and their Atheist branch will try to make the lives of their fellow man miserable…, unless they fall into the narrow,rigid, misguided,empty, path of socialism.
Socialists and Atheists DESTROY love. Jesus IS Love.
Socialists and Atheists are lost souls. It is such HUBRIS on their part that they would try to validate the damage they do by claiming that Jesus was one of them.
Report Post »jibbblaz070
Posted on August 20, 2011 at 3:09amCheck out the article, “The Early Church Was Not Communist – and Neither Was Jesus” co-authored by Don Hooser and Tom Robinson in the latest issue of The Good News Magazine:
http://www.ucg.org/christian-living/early-church-was-not-communist-and-neither-was-jesus/
Report Post »mils
Posted on August 21, 2011 at 8:53pmwho in their right mind would even venture to believe that they know what anyone that lived 2000 years ago thought….life was different, have y’all read the old testament??? OMG~~ get a life liberals!! you can’t even decide what you think from day to day much less what anyone may have thought…frankly, i think they would stoned you guys to death for sheer stupidity and narrow minded opinions about other people…just sayin…..
Report Post »koshka
Posted on August 26, 2011 at 12:58amAtheism IS a religion as it embraces a Dogma.
Report Post »One difference between Socialism and Biblical stories is the difference between charity and forced contribution. Charity is Natural whereas forced contribution (socialism) is man made tyranny.
teddrunk
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:54pmThe Socialists in this country are the Democrats. They kill children. I doubt Jesus would align with baby killers.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:23pmTed, I could be wrong, but there are probably going to be a storm of cut & paste as the Bible Quoter Crowd descends on us.
Report Post »greensteam
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:59pmjesus lived in a time of extremely rich and extremely poor. no middle class. so what he is teaching is to be considered to lie against extreme greed and taking from the poor to feed the rich. instead people misinterpret that as if he said take from the rich and give to the poor. it is more likely that he was saying the oppression of the rich in his day was evil much like oppresion today would be in russia and china. the oppression of a free society cannot be compared accurately.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:30pmCommies quoting Jesus to bolster their argument that taking the earnings of others and giving it to deadbeats is valid. Ha. What a joke. Jesus taught to help those that TRULY need help, but he never advocated being a sap.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:52pm@Sleazy Hippo- how is one supposed to quote your bible? Do you have it memorized?
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:47pmTed, Jesus didn‘t and wouldn’t side with anyone in Politics in the days He walk the earth, and He doesn’t today. Yes Jesus is alive and He is God, who hasn’t give us political (worldly) viewpoint, but rather has given us TRUTH, a right and good way and this trough the person of Jesus, HIS Christ!
just so you’ll know,
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 5:53amSay Web, I’ve talked to Jesus. He said while all sin before Him, he did mention those sins who hurt, molest or destroy His “Little Lambs”, really gets Him angry.
Report Post »taskmaster78
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 8:35amEd All sin past and future are wiped away in Christ for those who believe, even child molesters and worse
Jesus was a communist not a socialist: let me explain, he understood “render onto Caesar what is Caesars” thus separating the Jewish believers from government and establishing two kingdoms or forms of governments.
The thesis put forth by the author is not correct in calling Him a socialist seeing that mixes both property and government ownership. Now seeing they the ones who were saved under the “gospel of the kingdom” were commanded to live in commune thus sharing all wealth and belongings and follow the promise of God to the Jews, and to continue to pay taxes they live and supported the “church” and all who were faithful.
This is not Christianity as set forth by Christ through Paul who preach to the gentiles but an extension of Judaism and must not be confused seeing the promise was made to Israel and a gentile needed to become as a Jew and follow the commandments and ordinances laid forth by God. Knowing that they who followed Christ after flesh lived in an era of seeing the promise made to David thus fulfilling the one King to come.
So in short it is written “though we have known Christ after the flesh, know we him know more”. These petty arguments in mixing a Holly God and Savior with an imperfect system set up by man is pure stupidity and read all the passion and trouble even providing this post does not bring Christians together is provides more
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 4:10pmYour god also kills children, both born and unborn, or demands his followers to do it. We aren’t saying that your god is real, we‘re just taking the words to your book that you obviously haven’t read yet and pointing them out to you. If in fact, your god were real, I doubt it would be on the side of Glenn or Rush or Sarah or Michelle or Rick, or on the side of any of the repuglican bought pee party at all, really.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on August 20, 2011 at 7:02pmMy apologies Ted, you’ll forgive me if I do not understanding your reply and or why you have responded to my post reply to you, in the way you have? Please elaborate further !
Report Post »ZAP
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:54pm2 Thessalonians 3:10
Report Post »For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “If a man will not work, he shall not eat
sickntiredofliberals
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:02pmAMEN, with many more verses that an atheist can not understand.
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:06pmAlso read Jesus’ parable on the talents and on the vineyard workers. Hardly socialism. He does want us to help the poor, but he never forces anyone. God gave us free will, now if only the government would do the same. Atheist are not the authority on the Bible, please!
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:09pmAlso, the man and woman who were struck dead, were not killed because they held some back for themselves but because they LIED.
Report Post »TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:17pmI’m confused as to how this supports the idea of Jesus as a capitalist….it still seems like socialism to me.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:32pm@TOMSERVO
Jesus was neither socialist or capitolist. He was God. He didn’t tell the Roman government (who ruled over the Israelites at that time) to force all the Jewish and Gentiles to take care of those in need. He said WE should do it. It’s different to force someone to contribute. If he were going to do that, wouldn’t he have just made man submissive to him, so that everyone would love him? Everyone has a choice to believe in Him or not. Those that don’t believe want the government to force them to be nice, because they don’t want to on their own. Even when I was making a truck payment, paying rent and making minimum wage and caring for a handicapped child, I tithed. It’s not because the church needed my pitance, it was because God tells us to. I didn’t have enough left over to help anyone but myself, but I was never without. God took care of me.
Report Post »TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:41pmLoriann, thanks for that, but I was referring to the bible quote by the OP.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:44pmHave you read the Bible, Tom? Or did you have Religious studies as part of your collegiate learning?
You are likely out of your league on this thread. Aw….but only 3 comments here compared to your blasting the Media Matters thread. Maybe you are one of the smarter trolls.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:46pmHmmmm……are you still making conversation, Tom? Or do you have a liberal agenda and are just here to antagonize?
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:48pmI guess the OP quote refers to the socialist programs we as a nation have in place. you don’t have to work, the government will take care of you. I didn’t get assistance from the government because I chose to be honest at the interview. I was actually told if I’d quit my job and sell my truck (that I was still paying on) I would qualify for assistance. I had more pride than that.
Report Post »7511evergreen
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:19pmAmen!
Report Post »Proverbs 13:4 The soul of the sluggard desireth, and hath nothing: but the soul of the diligent shall be made fat.
Proverbs 21:25 The desire of the slothful killeth him; for his hands refuse to labour.
Proverbs 19:15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.
TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:21pmBut under actual socialism, everyone who is able works and everyone who works eats, just exactly the same amount as one another, right? So if you are able and do not work, you do not eat. Sounds like socialism.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:03pmI hate to say it… well, not really; Jesus is a dictator
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:33pm4truth, No he isn’t a dictator. Free will. That’s how the world fell. No soveriegn but God, no King but Jesus. None of us have to follow Him. We can choose Hitler, the Devil, Pol Pot, Queen Elilebeth, George Washinton…It doesn’t matter. We will still will serve satan or God but we get to choose.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 11:37pmYo beckwasfox:
Report Post »I am not speaking to our choice ( free will ) of who to follow. I am speaking of him being a King who will rule with an iron rod.
DOCMMV
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:54pmI‘d have to pull out my old sermon notes from the early 90’s, but I quickly proved to a study group that Jesus was a Reactionary Capitalist. The light bulb after the “deer in headlights” is always a joy to behold.
Report Post »Nevertheless, today’s argument (battle if you will) is the war of the horses. If we remain ignorant of that, we remain impotent in the fight.
NEAF
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:54pmLook how stupid and ignorant these people are. Jesus said shared, he never said give it to the government so the he can redistribute. Christians by nature (most of them) love to share and give the one on need, without the government tell them to do so. You cannot use power to impose charity. I don’t know, common sense.
Report Post »starman70
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:07pmYou are exactly right. The followers who sold everything and held everything in common did so voluntarily. They weren’t forced to by some apistolic edict. Roman Catholic Monks and Nuns also VOLUNTARIALLY surrender their goods to the church when joining their order.
I have a great suggestion: Let every one of these Atheists and far left liberals SELL EVERYTHING THEY OWN and give the proceeds to the Federal Government. Then they, having no worldy goods or visable means of support, could collect rent subsidies, food stamps, welfare and every other government program available They could live in their own self imposed socialist utopia and not having money, they wouldn’t be able to harass the rest of those who are working for what they have and trying to improve ourselves using the capitalist system.
Report Post »101
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:53pmJesus a “socialist” stop with the nonsense…what year was Jesus born?
Report Post »tarbush
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:09pmWho cares if He was? This isn’t a theocracy, and He isn’t here running the government. When He shows up and takes over the government then He can tun it any way He wants. (I’m hitting the deck if He show s up as I am not worthy to look upon Him.) This whole thing is insane anyway since socialism was invented much later in history.
Report Post »Christian Kalgaard
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:53pmMARXISM is by definition Atheist, so is Maoism, Leninism, Stalinism, Socialism, and so forth.
Report Post »End this constant barrage of lies !!!
HowardSternIsABigot
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:53pmjust silly. whatever they had regarding economies, would have little application to modern societies and economies. What was the GDP for Israel then ? a thousand sheckels?
Report Post »undercover
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:52pmJesus was not a socialist. The verses quoted did not refer to a form of government, rather the social ideals of a spiritual kingdom. Jesus advocated self sacrifice and giving as a spiritual ideal. Socialism mandates these charactoristics through state control and social engineering. Being a Godly person has nothing to do with the forced redistribution of wealth. That‘ll be the day when an atheist is qualified to interpret the Words of a God he doesn’t believe exists!
Report Post »bsgram
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:13pmexcellent post
Report Post »Evil_Conservative
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:20pmAmen on that.
Jesus would more likely say socialism is an effort to replace God with government.
Report Post »SovereignSoul
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:36pmToo bad god didn’t have the foresight to make his word clear and concise. Then we would not have to rely on flawed human logic to interpret anything.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:13pmYo Sovereignsoul:
Report Post »It is understandable. You don’t become the worlds greatest baseball hitter in a day. It takes time and effort and the holy spirit as counsler. Put the time and effort into it and you might just be able to hit the ball.
webpreacher
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 9:51pmWell said, “Undercover” !
Report Post »R4M0N
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:52pmI don’t see any of those passages telling us to let the government force the sharing for us… Also, that passage about “the rich” comes right after a young man with a lot of money gives up following Jesus because he loved his money more. It’s an example of loving money too much, not being rich in itself.
Report Post »Oddness
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:52pmWe shall be sure to ask him upon his return :)
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:00pmOr we can ask when we get to heaven. I suggest the liberals don‘t bother asking where they’re going, he’s the master of lies.
Report Post »rpbgfox
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:51pmSREGN, you nailed it
Report Post »555jgc
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:35pmGod has always been concise and clear.He said do what is good. Love one another. That’s it.
Report Post »James83940
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:51pmThere is a major difference between the government compelling an individual to give service or to love his neighbor or to provide for the needs of their fellow citizens and the Christ-like approach of doing it out of love for the other person, doing it because you WANT to do it, doing it because you know it is giving service and knowing deep down inside that when you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of God!
It’s not that hard to determine the difference between the two!
Report Post »TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:19pmSo the only problem you have with paying taxes instead of donating that money directly is that you don’t get to choose who it goes to?
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:34pmI don’t have a problem paying taxes if it would actually go to running the government. But most people who pay taxes are actually paying for those who get back more than they put in, via Earned Income Tax Credit, etc. Nearly half (I hear anywhere from 47-over 50%, I’ll take the lower one to be safe) of Americans either get all their taxes back, or are owed money by the government. Render unto Ceaser what is Ceaser‘s and render unto God what is God’s. God is not a government, unlike Islam.
Report Post »TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 6:22pmBut Caesar was the government…
Report Post »sappi60
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:12pmTom, the purpose of doing it is not soley to better the state of the person receiving. That is where you are missing this. Giving is not just meant for the receiver it is meant for the giver. It is meant to teach us self sacrifice and service to others. That‘s why it’s done in the context of either individually or by the Body of Christ. No where does Jesus command the rulers of His day to redistribute wealth in order to alleviate the poverty He saw around Him. He spoke to those seeking the Kingdom of God. You are looking at this in merely a temporal context which is why you relate it to Socialism. But Christ was not interested in our politics. He was interested in our hearts and our relationship to God. Giving is a heart issue, not a political issue. Having the government doing the “redistribution” of wealth does not deal with selfishness in our own hearts or our callousness to the pain and suffering of others. That’s what the Bible is trying to get at. If anything, “forcing” someone to give through higher taxation or the confiscation of wealth and property actually increases sin, as it allows resentment a foothold and makes us more miserly (why should I give more…they take enough already).
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:22pmYo Loriann12:
Report Post »I would find it necessary to correct you in that Jesus will return and establish HIS KINGDOM in which He will rule a thousand years. He will indeed set up His government here on earth.
freedomofspeech
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:50pmGod is all about the individual. We are born into this world alone, we die alone.
Report Post »webpreacher
Posted on August 20, 2011 at 7:18pmWrong theology FREEDOMOFSPEECH, God is not just a personal God, that is, His desire to establish a personal relationship with every individual born into the world, He is also the God (only) of Nations, for one, the Nation of Israel, also of America which was founded on Judeo/Christian Faith, He also is the God (singular),of Christ Church, the “Body of Christ’ also in the Gospel of John chapter 3 He declared that “God so loved the World”…..”, which encompasses ALL the people in the world, and the key here is “That whosoever shall”…”, Lastly, should anyone “die alone”, then truly they will spend eternity ALONE, in a place called hell. however, when a person dies and has Christ he is never alone even in death, and shall spend eternity with Christ and all His Saints in His Kingdom…Heaven!
Report Post »AlmostaCowboy
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:50pmYou just can’t explain what the Bible says to non-believers. The Word is meaningless unless the Spirit is in you. And, clearly, the Spirit is not in them.
Report Post »“Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.”
Matthew 7:6
webpreacher
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 10:19pmHey ALMOSTACOWBOY,
Good post, exactly why there are so many here lacking understanding of God’s Word, the Holy Spirit of God has not been sent into (THATS INTO) them, because they have not been “BORN AGAIN”, regenerated. Jesus did say, teaching in the gospel of JOHN, Chapter 3, “you MUST be, born again”…
Salvation is needed, and this by complete surrendering of one’s life, giving up self will for God’s will !
Scripture teaches that “, Matthew 7:13-14, “Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat”: 14) “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it”.
Folks, there are a lot more people going to Hell, than there are going to Heaven, for the scripture say, that many are on the path of “destruction”, and only few there are on the path of life !
Where will you find yourself upon leaving this present life? Which path are you on, which gate are you passing through, the one leading to destruction,(HELL), or the one leading to life (HEAVEN)?
How can you know for sure, do you want to know, do you want assurance of life after death?
God’s Book, The Bible (KJV), has the Words of eternal life, God reveals to us all that He has done, the lengths He has gone, to give you life, and life more abundantly. He has provided a way, only one way to save you from sin’s grip on your life, and eternal destruct
Report Post »Midwest Blonde
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:50pmHmmm was I taught wrong? I was taught if I had extra, it would be best to help the poor by donation [goods, money etc]. Jesus taught Charity, not socialism. IF I have extra and someone else is in need, I help. I’m not forced, it’s my free will.
Charity is NOT socialism.
Report Post »TOMSERVO
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:21pmI don’t know if you were taught wrong, I think alot of people would agree with what you are saying. Jesus though? I don’t think he would.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:27pmYo Tomservo:
Report Post »They agree because they read the bible. Do you?
rpbgfox
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:49pmAnother attempt by the left to discredit Christianity
Report Post »AlmostaCowboy
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:52pmAnother “failed” attempt…….
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:59pmI believe that your eyes will NOT be open unless God opens them for you. And why would He NOT open them? Maybe because your heart is wrong and HE know what you are capable of. I always pray before reading the scriptures that God open my eyes to HIS truth and not the truth of those around me. So far, since I became a Christian, He has shone me things I could never imagine or understand before.
Report Post »Matthew 20 is one example. If you skim over this, you will walk away thinking LIBERAL socialism. If you read the entire 1-16 verses, TWICE, you will see CAPITALISM and UNDERSTANDING of the human heart. Most and I mean MOST liberals won’t really read their Bibles, even tho they say they do because I can list (too many here) CAPITALIST scriptures, along with CHARITABLE (not the same as socialism or communism) scriptures. To be a follower of Jesus Christ, you cannot pick and choose scriptures. You must do your best to follow them all. Charity was meant to come from the heart and not be forced, then it is not charity anymore, but socialism. CHRIST NEVER FORCED ANYONE TO GIVE to the poor or get saved, for that matter. IT IS CALLED FREE-WILL. If you force people to do something, then WILL resent it eventually. But, to give from the heart, will soothe the soul, help those in need, and God will be well pleased with you. If only liberals would see this, but no, THEY PICK AND CHOOSE SCRIPTURES TO FIT THEIR AGENDA. The truth has no agenda.
NEAF
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:49pmWell, let me see. Socialist doesn’t believe in God. Case closed!
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:38pmI think it was Ayn Rand who insisted that belief in God was a weakness, and she thought God-fearing conservatives were wussies. She has a big following in the country today.
Report Post »johnniefrench
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:48pmNo, Jesus was a communist. Everything gave away all their possessions.
Report Post »bboatmanable
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:09pmFirst, no, not everyone gave away all of their possessions. Second, every example of what someone could inteperet as socialist ideals in the Bible is a “type”, or example of what we should do spiritually, and CAN do monetarily IF WE SO CHOOSE. The idea is to WANT to help others, with love, from your heart. NOBODY can FORCE you to do that except GOD and He chooses to give us all the choice.
Report Post »66 bronco
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:18pmI don’t know what Bible your reading but Jesus in noway shape or form was a communist! How do you know the apostles gave all their stuff to the poor? When the Bible said they left their boats and their nets. How do you know they left to community and not to their families??? It’s funny as soon as they thought Jesus was dead and gone they where back on a boat again fishing. Did they buy a new boat if so where did they get the money to do so or did they just go back and get their boats and nets for people they left they too??? The only reason why the apostles may have given or sold all their stuff after Jesus rose for the dead is to be missionaries for Him and travel the country side and surrounding areas preaching the Word of GOD. It was their free will to do so, Jesus didn’t command everyone to do the same! You better go back and rear your Bible front to back again, I’ll find a much clearer picture of what GOD is trying teach and show us!
Report Post »GENEPAGLIARI
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:48pmYou can’t pick and choose out of the bible. Either you believe the whole thing based upon the whole thing or you don’t believe it at all.
Report Post »How can and atheist interpret the bible he does not believe in. He is only trying to divide and confuse by using a little truth with a lot of interpretation. He is bending biblical verses to his own means. Jesus said if you don‘t work you don’t eat.
mattva1981
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:48pmDaveRamsey: Giving your $ to the poor = Christian act. Giving other peoples $ to the poor = Socialism
Report Post »NWalters78
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:10pmSounds pretty danged right to me. What’s the debate, again?
Margaret Thatcher also said this, “The problem with socialism, is that eventually they run out of other peoples’ money to spend.”
Report Post »johnniefrench
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:47pmNo. He was a communist. Each apostle gave everything they had to the community and were doled out what they needed at an appropriate time.
Report Post »BrotherWill
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:55pmEach apostle WILLINGLY GAVE, not was confiscated against his will. The latter is communism/socialism.
Report Post »beans bullets and bandaids
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:18pmRead chapter 5 of the Acts of the Apostles. It shows us that our possessions are ours and we can keep what we wish. Sapphira and Ananias were part of the community. They sold their possessions. They held back some of the proceeds, but told the Apostles that it was all that they had. Peter chastised them for lying to the Holy Spirit because it was NOT all that they had. Peter told them that it was their money to do with what they will, but they were guilty of lying about it. Ananias died on the spot and his wife, Sapphira died 3 hours later after telling the same lie.
They didn’t die because they wanted to keep some of their possessions against the teaching of Christ. Peter told them that they most certainly had a right to their things and could give what they wanted. They were punished because they lied about it.
Report Post »SREGN
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:45pmJesus was without sin and did not advocate sin. He warned people not to sin. Socialism and Social justice involve 2 sins right out of the ten commandments: stealing and coveting. Therefore, Jesus would frown upon socialism and the concept of social justice. He did advocate being generous, but that implies voluntary, not government mandated and enforced.
Report Post »wraith67
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:02pmAbsolutely. And there’s no such thing as collective salvation. Nobody is going to heaven because somebody confiscated another person’s wealth and redistributed it.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:44pmA pretty ridiculous idea. People will try to fit the Bible to fit ANY cause they want it to; and it’s relatively easy to do. Jesus was as much an advocate of socialism as he was of capitalism: that is, not at all.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:50pmRead Jesus’ statement in Matthew 20: 1-16 and see if you don’t see a LOT of anti-socialism there.
Report Post »MODEL82A1
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:43pmJesus is a socialist in the same way that the “general welfare clause” in the Constitution gives the federal government the power to do anything it wants.
Report Post »pscully17
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 4:50pmNo.. do Unto others as youd have them do Unto you.. means… Dont steal their posessions, even through a fancy name like TAXES. I wont demand your money through forced TAXATION, if you dont Demand Mine!! its called, keeping what you make, and inspires people to continue to be productive without threat of having their shiiiat stolen from them, which, inspires a society of dpression and malaise.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:04pm“Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s. Render unto God that which is God’s”. Jesus made his point clear. The laws of man are not the laws of God.
Report Post »Furthermore, Gregory Paul makes the same mistake most leftists and atheists make when addressing the Jesus acts of the Apostles. They don’t take the events of the time into account. The early Christians were persecuted by the Romans and other cultures (including the Jews). Saul of Tarsus persecuted Christians before his conversion. As a result, Christian communities had to take care of each other and fend for themselves. They were pockets within hostile environments. Jesus and the Apostles warned against the sin of greed. Worshipping earthly possessions is against Christian teaching, but prospering is not against it. Charity is taught as a Christian virtue and nobody can dismiss the proliferation of Christian charities and the donations of christians. Compassion is a Christian virtue and this too cannot be ignored among Christians. State run wealth redistribtion, rationing of health care and supporting the idle are not normative to Christian teaching..yet exist and flourish in socialist societies. Take the recent riots in England. I defy anyone to find me a starving, homeless individual among that mob”. These were well fed, adedquately housed youth that used internet based social media to organize. I’m sure Blackberries and iPods are not indicative of abject poverty and deprivation. The wages of socialis
kg33
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:06pmPScully;
Report Post »Jesus Christ told us to “render therefore to Caeser the things that are Caeser’s” (Mat. 22:15-22) so we can tell that he permited taxation.
pscully17
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:22pm@kg33… so what you are saying is a Dicatotor, self-imposed, has Gods blessing to take what you make? the fruits of you labor are fair game to be taken by brute force? pardon my french, but kg33, youre and idiot if thats your interpretation of the Quote… it has NOTHING to do with taxation!!! You are insinuating that God was for slavery, and as a slave, you are NOT permitted to posess anything? Oddly, God led Moses out of slavery and tryanny, so his people could be free from brutal oppression and taxation…
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 5:53pmKG33…you entirely missed Christ’s point. He was being tried for sedition and it appeared to Roman authorities that he was telling Jews NOT to obey Roman and local laws. Christ was telling Pilate that God’s law is above the affairs of men when was telling him to seperate “that which is Caesar’s” from God’s realm. Taxes are man’s law, not God’s. Your twisted hermeneutics only confuse the discussion.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 7:35pmYo pscully17
Report Post »Hate to tell you but Jesus Himself paid taxes! Least that’s what the bible says.
kg33
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:34pmPScully & Avengerk;
Report Post »Read the entire exchange!
“Then the Pharisees went out and laid plans to trap him in his words. They sent their disciples to him along with the Herodians. “Teacher,” they said, “we know you are a man of integrity and that you teach the way of God in accordance with the truth. You aren’t swayed by men, because you pay no attention to who they are. Tell us then, what is your opinion? Is it right to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”
But Jesus, knowing their evil intent, said, “You hypocrites, why are you trying to trap me? Show me the coin used for paying the tax.” They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, “Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?”
“Caesar’s,” they replied.
Then he said to them, “Give to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”” Mat 22:15-21, (NIV)
The Pharisees SPECIFICALLY asked “Is it right to pay taxes to Caeser or not?“ Jesus answered to ”render” it to him because it contained Caeser’s image and inscription, and when He further states to “render to Caeser what is Caeser’s”, this alludes to the fact that the coin was already Caeser’s.
This is made even clearer in Rom 13:1-7.
We can use logic to find why we might owe the gov’t a tax. Drive on a road today? Mail or get a letter? See a fire truck or police car recently? Take a walk in the park? Buy or sell anything with money? All of these are from the gov’t. I am for small gov’t and low taxes, but i
pscully17
Posted on August 17, 2011 at 8:50pmat kg 33— according to the irs.. taxation is Voluntary… except its enforced through massive penalties… the argument is, is Jesus a socialist?, No he is NOt a socialist, by your last post, you use TAXATION as a fee to pay for goods and services I use,,, roads, bridges, police protection and education… in this case the tax is a fee for something I use… socialism, is a redistribution of my forced taxes to be paid to another individual who also uses the roads and also includes food they eat, closthes and shelter… My forced tax dollars shouldnt be used as a PERPETUAL CHARI|TY to support the lives of other NON -TAX PAYING citizens… my labor is being penalized for being productive to pay for those who arent…jesus was promoting personal Charity by free will, Gods free will, Not a forced taxation by Other HUMANS… / dictatorial Government
Report Post »kg33
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 10:55amPScully;
Report Post »Exactly right. In a perfect world there would be no “gov’t aid programs” and we would all give to charity and everyone would be fine. But this isn‘t the case so the gov’t asks for some to be put in these programs to try and help people. Of course, these programs have become pork-filled monsters today that are more about socialism (redistributing wealth; BAD!!!) than actually helping people. You’re totally right.
AvengerK
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 12:17pmKG33 you quote the passage but you still don‘ t understand what Christ is saying when he says look at the image on the coin and give it back to it’s owner. Christ taught that God‘s law is above man’s laws. He‘s only concerned with the higher law of God that’s why he‘s saying if it’s Caesar’s image on the coin and Caesar wants it back, give it to him it’s insignificant compared to the grand law of God. You forget…Matthew was a tax collector and Jesus told him to abandon tax collecting and follow him. If as you say, Jesus was pro-taxation..why would he have a tax-collector literally get up and walk away from the tax collection table? You don’t get it KG33, the Christology, the messianic message is what Christ’s mission on Earth was along with the redemption of man.
Report Post »kg33
Posted on August 18, 2011 at 2:06pmAvengerk;
Report Post »God’s law IS above the carnal laws, but we are told to submit to governing authorities. This obviously would end when said authority would compromise God’s Law. See Rom 13:1-7.
Also, you can be “pro-whatever” (here taxation) and still have higher priorities. Jesus turned water into wine at a wedding, but this doesn’t mean He was pro-alcoholism. Jesus Christ obviously had higher priorities than taxes or booze, like preaching His Gospel of the Kingodm and becoming a Savior to humanity, which is why he had Matthew leave.
Of course as you say there is a spiritual application for the exchange. We should definetly render praise, glory, and honor to God, and in turn submit (to the extent it doesn’t cause us to sin) to the secular authorities He appointed by rendering things to them like taxes.