US

Is Mosaic of Surfing Virgin Mary Art or Graffiti?

ENCINITAS, Calif. (AP) — The surfing Madonna appeared just before Easter weekend and has been stirring a soulful debate in this Southern California beach town ever since.

The striking mosaic of the Virgin of Guadalupe riding a wave was affixed to a wall under a train bridge by artists disguised as construction workers in April. It technically is graffiti that should be removed under the law.

Is Mosaic of Surfing Virgin Mary Art or Graffiti?

But the surfing Madonna’s beauty is drawing a mass following, and even city officials who say she must go acknowledge they too have been taken by her. They have spent thousands to hire an art conservation agency to find the best way to remove her without causing damage.

The 10-by-10-foot rock and glass mosaic poses an interesting dilemma over whether a city should spend lots of money to get rid of artwork that is illegal but well done and actually beautifies a place.

Deciding what is graffiti is a growing debate worldwide with guerrilla artists gaining respect in established art circles. A number of museums have brought the street art indoors for prestigious exhibits in recent years, while pieces of illegal art snatched up by dealers have been fetching hefty sums.

A Los Angeles show billed as the first major museum exhibit of street art at the Museum of Contemporary Art in Little Tokyo sparked a similar debate last month when unauthorized etchings started showing up on buildings in the neighborhood. The exhibit included Chaz Bojorquez’s stark, black-and-white “Senor Suerte” drawings, once a fixture on the concrete-lined waterways of Los Angeles, and the colorful “Howard the Duck” murals that Lee Quinones covered New York City with in the 1970s.

Support for the wave-riding Virgin has only flourished amid the controversy. She is now on Twitter and Facebook, pleading for help: “I’m the Surfing Madonna. Cherished public mosaic. Hangin’ in Encinitas. Hoping to become famous enough to be saved.”

Is Mosaic of Surfing Virgin Mary Art or Graffiti?

Jack Quick, a local art dealer, saw the men in hard hats put up the mosaic in daylight just days before Easter. He estimates it cost $1,000 in materials and more than 100 hours to build it. The city does not know which artist or artists did the work. No one has stepped forward.

Inside a piercing blue wave, Our Lady of Guadalupe balances on a white surf board decorated with the angelic face of Juan Diego, the indigenous boy who is said to have seen the Virgin on a Mexican hillside in 1531. Her vibrant green robe curls up around her as if blowing in the sea breeze as she surfs with her iconic serene face. Down one side are the words: “Save the Ocean.”

Is Mosaic of Surfing Virgin Mary Art or Graffiti?

Thousands of people have come to see the artwork. Some have brought flowers and lit votive candles on the sidewalk under her.

Cincinnati, Ohio, artist Jules Itzkoff was among those who have visited the mosaic. He said he was captivated by the “piece of glassy vandalism.”

“It‘s just interesting when a piece of vandalism pops up that’s so beautiful and so different that it doesn’t resemble what we normally think of as graffiti,” Itzkoff said. “It should be an important landmark for graffiti artists: Somebody in their community has created something that the city actually likes! Surfing Madonna speaks for the future of graffiti art in America. The goal could be to create work that society wants to keep.”

But he admits: “That’s a bit idealistic.”

It’s also unrealistic, says Encinitas Mayor James Bond, and would put city officials in the position of deciding the taste of Encinitas, which has about 63,000 residents. He added the mosaic’s religious connotations also have drawn complaints.

Some say the artwork blurs the line between church and state; others consider it sacrilegious to have Mexico’s patron saint pictured surfing.

Is Mosaic of Surfing Virgin Mary Art or Graffiti?

“We can’t just go around saying, ‘Well, when someone slaps up something nice, we like it and it can stay.’ Or, ‘Oh, we don’t like it, so we’ve got to take it down,’” Bond said. “We can’t do that with art because people always love and hate the same piece of art. So it’s a slippery slope.”

It also could quickly get out of control in a town like Encinitas that is full of artists, he said.

The city is covered with public artwork, including an infamous bronze statue depicting a surfer boy on a wave that has come to be known as the Cardiff “Kook.” The statue got the name from people in the local surf community from nearby Cardiff by the Sea who started poking fun at the artwork because they thought the boy’s delicate hands pointed upward seemed effeminate. People have been dressing up the statue for years to reflect the day’s news or holiday season – it recently donned a curly wig and dress for Oprah’s departing show – sending crews out regularly to clean it up, Bond said.

Bond says the city does not want to be a “Gestapo” and go after the light-hearted pranksters whose stunts are easily removed, but the surfing Madonna sets a dangerous precedent.

The Los Angeles-based art conservation agency, Sculpture Conservation Studio, on Tuesday began testing ways to safely remove the mosaic. Its workers told reporters standing nearby that they saw a name under the colorful glass but didn’t know if it belonged to the artist.

The agency concluded in an earlier report that there is no better spot for the Surfing Madonna than under the overpass, protected from the sun and rain. The artwork is stuck to the concrete wall with a strong epoxy glue.

“Its lifespan here may be longer than if put elsewhere,” the agency said in its report to the city.

View more videos at: http://nbcsandiego.com.

Bond expects moving the mosaic will be costly, but local businesses are raising funds to cover the city’s expenses. And several people have offered to buy the artwork.

Although it’s graffiti, the City Council wants the mosaic to be relocated to a place where the public can continue to view it.

City workers, meanwhile, have been busy cleaning up other unauthorized art – including a painting of a monster’s face that turned up under train tracks in a separate part of town shortly after the Surfing Madonna. That painting was whitewashed in 24 hours with not a word of protest.

“That was really easy to accomplish,” said Dody Crawford, executive director of the Downtown Encinitas Mainstreet Association. “It didn’t have the beauty that the Surfing Madonna has. It’s just so darn beautiful.”

Comments (88)

1 2
  • LovingAmerica
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 4:36pm

    Of course this artwork would originate in California. The state that is least stable and most likely to break off into the ocean someday. Talk about tempting fate…. Yes, of course this is highly offensive and inappropriate. That’s why the artists did it in the first place. Controversy, shock, anger, hurt, humor, apathy – the range of emotions and sacriledge – perfect. Living in California and turning out Madonna-insulting artwork is a good way to dance with the devil. I hope you guys know how to swim.

    Report Post »  
  • Its Gonna Getcha
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 3:43pm

    ……and the raging debate over what art is continues. Not everything needs a dead-set solution in life.

    Report Post » Its Gonna Getcha  
  • Bigolfascist
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 3:17pm

    It’s art. If it were Mohammed it would be blasphemy, and the artist would be hunted down and beheaded. There’s the difference: Christians can be tolerant of this depiction, and, maybe even find it whimsical. Maybe Mary would have liked surfing. After Christ’s birth she went on with her regular life. It’s like the picture of Christ laughing out loud. Sure he would have laughed out loud and it’s cool that someone depicted him as man as well as a deity. That’s what he was. There are a lot of atheists and liberals who flaunt that picture of Christ like a cape in front of a bull, but here’s a little secret to them: Christians like to see their Christ laughing and being gregarious.

    I don’t know the motivation behind the subject matter. Most often today “artistic expression” is often code for Christian bashing. If that was intended, the artists failed. If the attempt was to create a beautiful mosaic, they succeeded. I hope it can be saved.

    Report Post » Bigolfascist  
  • spilling_seeds
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 3:13pm

    wow is this really an issue its innocent and a little comical. no subliminal messages or any messages for that matter. I like it and if you are a religeous surfer its even better. nothing about this should be insulting to anyone.

    Report Post »  
  • santramir
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:37pm

    to love yourself again: http://www.realzionistnews.com/?p=639america

    Report Post » santramir  
  • Donnalyn47
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:41am

    Why doesn’t the artist paint Mohammed and Allah surfing?

    Report Post »  
  • JoeySocal
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:39am

    I live across the street from this. Its actually created a lot of discussion with kids about who it is in the picture that otherwise would not have taken place.

    Report Post »  
  • rose-ellen
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:23am

    Beautiful!
    And pray for us o holy mother of God, that we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.

    Report Post »  
  • FedUpToo
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:17am

    Just replace the Virgin Mary with Mohammad than you will see if it is art.

    Report Post »  
  • SychinLegacy
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:16am

    What is wrong with all you people. I‘m just as devout a catholic as all of you and I’m not offended one bit by it. In fact I think it’s pretty cool. It’s not an idol of any sorts. We are not worshiping the picture. It instead is a symbol of Mary who we do revere. Not worship. We ask her to pray for us because she’s closer to God than anyone else. It’s like “Hey Mary while you’re up there put in a good word for me to the Father please”.

    You people need to calm down. You‘re grasping at straws to try and be offended by something that isn’t that offensive. Just take a step back..

    Report Post » SychinLegacy  
  • mikee1
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:28am

    I do not think that this insults the Holy Mother, like many other things have. Just in case all those Catholics are right, I would never do anything that insults or commit blasphemy against the Queen of Heaven, the human Mother of the God of the Universe. If a liberal, progressive fool could comprehend that, he would not either. Do you comprehend the power of these Beings?

    Report Post » mikee1  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:04am

      The term “Queen of Heaven” is of pagan origin. Mary is not in Heaven.The dead in Christ have not yet risen.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
  • enemy of the statist
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:13am

    This is a non-story. If this offends you then you need to startt buying a larger sized underwear.

    Report Post » enemy of the statist  
  • nomercy63
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:27am

    I hate these stories gets all the religious puritans fired up and we get to read 5 million bible quotes!
    All I have to say is hang 10 Mary you go girl!

    Report Post »  
  • Hephzibah
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:27am

    City officials have spent thousands on trying to figure out how to remove it? If the “artist” would have chosen to do this the legal way, perhaps HE would be the one getting the thousands.

    It‘s kind of like a dog marking it’s territory when it takes over a yard.

    Report Post » Hephzibah  
  • Michael
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:23am

    Okay, if it was subsidized by the NEA it is considered “Art” no matter how profane or obscene. This was probably done with the artist’s own materials and time without an endowment. So, I guess it must not be art.

    Report Post »  
    • Michael
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:35am

      Wrong, the city wants to move it not remove it (as in destroy.)

      Report Post »  
  • ofallon
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:01am

    Paint It Black. Problem solved.

    Report Post »  
  • Islesfordian
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:59am

    The question isn‘t whether it’s art or not. It’s whether it is pleasing or not. Does it improve the area in the minds of the majority.

    Simple enough.

    Report Post » Islesfordian  
  • ShyMan
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:58am

    No brainer. Vandalism. Remove it.

    Subject matter doesn’t matter.

    It’s funny how the worshipers of Mary tend to forget the commandment about idols.

    Report Post » ShyMan  
    • Michael
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:31am

      It’s semantics I know but representations of this sort are icons not idols.

      Report Post »  
    • ShyMan
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:51am

      When it‘s worshipped it’s an idol.

      You can deny it all you want.

      Call it an icon, idol, doesn’t matter.

      If someone reveres it as something with religious
      qualities it’s an idol and should never be treated as anything
      more than an item made by the hand of man.

      If it has historical value that’s different.

      Appreciate it as artistic or historically significant. Nothing more.

      Report Post » ShyMan  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 4:24pm

      The Bible thumpers are out in force preaching their hate of all things catholic (and they do it on a Mormon run website).

      Report Post »  
  • SpankDaMonkey
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:55am

    .
    Girl has some skills…………I see X Games Gold in the future…………….

    Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
  • willbedone
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:55am

    What a waste of the ethers.

    Report Post » willbedone  
  • Bonnieblue2A
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:49am

    The NEA will only recognize it as art if it is sitting in a jar of urine or smeared with fecal matter; thus, it must be graffiti.

    Report Post »  
  • The_Almighty_Creestof
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:43am

    Art or graffiti?
    Neither one…it is vandalism and should be removed. If someone believes it has artistic merit, then they can pay to have it removed in such a way as to keep it intact.

    Otherwise it is a fine line…we don’t want to become fanatical animals like the goatherders and their “kill everyone who draws Uncle Mo in a bad light”…but the Virgin Mary painted with elephant dung, or a cross with Jesus nailed to it, upside down in a jar of urine IS going too far.

    Report Post »  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:42am

    No, it’s not art, just a continuation of a distortion of the truth, because the hoary frost of heaven is in the womb of a multitude of people “The virgin.”

    Report Post »  
  • TexasCommonSense
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:39am

    I’ve seen far worse than this be called art.

    Report Post » TexasCommonSense  
    • mill
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:48am

      weeeeell,at least she’s not in urine, in poop, naked etc…it’s just silly, stupid, typical

      Report Post »  
    • Untameable-kate
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:56pm

      I don’t have any doube that it is intended to insult Christians and that makes it trash. Throw it out.

      Report Post » Untameable-kate  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:39am

    Uh, I don’t care one way or the other.

    Report Post »  
    • cessna152
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:46am

      Save the ocean: Marxist propaganda earth is your god.
      Two Lesbians: Progressive propaganda
      Artist most likely liberal

      All equal anti-God….you decide.

      Report Post » cessna152  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:49am

      Is the mosaic of Allah attending the Barnyard Prom ,with his favorite camel art ?

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • Dustyluv
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:03am

      Art, graffiti or just plain stupid? I vote stupid..

      Report Post »  
    • UlyssesP
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:05am

      If it were a piece of toast with her image I would have digested it by now. Who cares?

      Report Post » UlyssesP  
    • Rashomon
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:14am

      Lets go surfin now
      Everybodys learning how

      Report Post » Rashomon  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:19am

      Concept of Virgin Mary was made up in the 4th century. Jesus was the “First Born” and continued to have children with Joseph, therefore Mary isn’t a Virgin.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Michael
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:28am

      Well povertysucks, that is your belief and/or opinion. Many, like me, believe just the opposite. This is our belief and not of any concern to you or the likes of you.

      Report Post »  
    • chirodoc007
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:46am

      @ POVERTY.SUCKS

      Mary was a Virgin at the time of Christ’s conception. No one said that she remained a virgin her whole life. Other children have nothing to do with the birth of Christ.

      To everyone else:

      This is in California. It’s well done. People are appreciating it as art. I’d say leave it alone and stop wasting money on studies to decide how to handle it. There appears to be nothing offensive in the piece – not to Christians, not to Jews, not to Muslims, Atheists, Buddists or any other religion. California is already broke, stop finding distractions to spend very limited funds on.

      Report Post »  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:52am

      I don’t care one way or the other, either. they should just take a picture of it, paint over it, them change the surface so it cannot be painted on again. Make the bums paint on their own medium.

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • Jezreel
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:29am

      The Virgin Mary is not a virgin. She had children after Jesus was born. Jesus had brothers and even probably a couple sisters. Joseph did not have intercourse with Mary until after Jesus was born. Roman Catholics are very good at perverting the truth into a lie. Mary had to get saved just like everybody else, through the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ and all these “hail Mary’s” that the priest has you do at confession, well, if people are so stupid to fall for that, then they deserve to join the demons in hell for rejecting the truth.

      Report Post »  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:40am

      Gods commandment is not worship idols, Roman Catholics Idolize Mary. Mary doesn’t bring salvation. Jesus Christ is the son of God our creator.  Believe what he has taught. Then you’ll believe that he will be victorious in the final analysis.  If that faith isn’t present, you’ll be swept along with the world system.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Thun
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:59am

      The entire prayer is lifted right from the face of Scripture.

      Hail Mary, full of grace.
      The Lord is with thee.

      (Luke 1:28)

      Blessed are you among women and
      blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus

      (Luke 1:42)

      Holy Mary, Mother of God.

      (Luke 1:43)

      Pray for us sinners,
      now and at the hour of are death.

      (Luke 6:27-36)

      Jesus explicitly tells us to pray for each other and to ask each other to pray for us.

      Yet, when we ask His own mother- the one full of grace, the blessed one, the mother of God, the Ark of the Covenant, the Woman clothed with the Sun (Revelation 11:19-12:1)- to pray for us, to HIM, we are accused of idolotry.

      It’s a funny old world, isn’t it?

      Report Post »  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:21am

      The Ark of the Covenant pre-dates Mary, she isn’t the gaurdian. Christians take prayer directly to god and ask other Christians to share in our prayers and in theirs as well.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:29am

      Mary remained a virgin and did not conceive any other children. She was a consecrated virgin before she conceived by the Holy Spirit and remained a consecrated virgin afterward. Yes, Jesus was her first-born. The entire Body of Christ became her children when Jesus offered his mother as the mother to all from the cross. There is no scriptural evidence to show that Jesus had blood brothers or sisters. Remember, neither the Hebrew or Aramaic language had a word for uncle, aunt, or cousin. They used the terms brother and sister in all cases.

      Regarding worshiping or idolizing Mary, there are only a handful of people that truly dislike the Catholic Christian faith. The rest dislike it for what they mistakenly misinterpret the faith to represent.

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:35am

      Mary is the Ark of the *NEW* Covenant. Look up the stark similarities between both on the internet. Both the Ark and Mary were overshadowed by the same glory cloud of God. I’ll leave the rest of the comparisons to those who wish to know the truth.

      Remember, there were no chapter divisions in the Bible originally. See the end of Revelation 11 leading into 12. That’s Mary!

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:41am

      That’s right, Roman Catholic was the New Religion. How to Buy Salvation.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • TomFerrari
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:48am

      Art goes on private property – your OWN wall, or your OWN canvas.
      ART does not deface or damage the property of others.

      Sandblast it during the night to avoid the cameras and criticism.

      Find the criminal and fine him or put him in jail for destruction of public property or for vandalism or whatever.

      Report Post » TomFerrari  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:51am

      @Poverty.Sucks
      It’s really hard to say that Roman Catholic is the new religion when they were there from the birth of the Church. The Apostolic tradition is carried on right to this very day in the Roman Catholic faith. This is the very Church that Jesus said would endure until the end. This is the Church that Jesus prayed would be one. This is the Church that is universal in doctrine. This is the Church that is ridiculed, persecuted, hated, and having devils just as Christ was. We would have it no other way. We are imitating Christ.

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:52am

      Amending my comment: “having devils” should say “accused of having devils.” :)

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:00pm

      SAVE THE OCEAN : No, the earth is not my God, but I still would like to go surfing without a diaper floating next to me (that was quite nasty). Our beaches here in the L.A. area are a toilet thanks in part from the socialists in power here who would rather take our money to feed the unions than keep our public beaches clean.

      TWO LESBIANS : Actually, sexual preference does not affect a person’s political leanings .

      ARTIST : I am a musician who paints as well. And I can assure you that I served my nation (not only to get away from home) but to defend our constitution and to defend ALL of my fellow Americans from tyrannical oppression.

      Yes, since this was put there without a permit it is considered grafitti. And no it doesn’t offend me.

      Report Post »  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:12pm

      Mary (Mirriam in hebrew) was not a purpetual virgin.
      Matthew 1:25 And he knew ( The woord “Knew”means in a sexual sense) her not till she had brought forth her first-born son:

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • encinom
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:13pm

      Jezreel
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:29am
      The Virgin Mary is not a virgin. She had children after Jesus was born. Jesus had brothers and even probably a couple sisters. Joseph did not have intercourse with Mary until after Jesus was born. Roman Catholics are very good at perverting the truth into a lie. Mary had to get saved just like everybody else, through the death, burial and ressurection of Jesus Christ and all these “hail Mary’s” that the priest has you do at confession, well, if people are so stupid to fall for that, then they deserve to join the demons in hell for rejecting the truth.
      ____________________________________________________
      Can’t you just feel the Christian love on this site. The holy rollers and bible thumping born agains deciding how Chrisitians should worship what doctrines they should follower (kind sounds like the taleban). To a Catholic Mother Mary was born without sin, the Immaculate Conception and this belief is a pillar of catholic dogma. Just cause the Preacher, in the $1,000 suit at your local Mega Church/shopping mall disagrees does not make his opinion any more valid.

      Don’t you have a Know Nothing Rally to attend….

      Report Post »  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:23pm

      @BOMustGo
      Notice the silence after “And he knew her not till she had brought forth her first-born son.“ This does not mean that Joseph ”knew” her afterward. Check this out: 1 Cor 15:25 “For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.” Does this mean that Jesus’ reign ends after He puts His enemies under His feet? No. The quote you bring up speaks nothing about Mary being “known” afterward. It is simply listed to show Mary was a virgin when she bore Christ to the world. She remained a virgin afterward in accordance with her consecrated vows.

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:29pm

      Mary was a sinner.That is why she had to offer up a sin offering after the birth of Christ. The immaculate conception (meaning she was conceived without sin) is a man-made teaching.I will admit, am a born again (see ACTS 2:38) believer and an X-catholic.The Spirit will lead and guide you into ALL Truth.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • poverty.sucks
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:31pm

      Truth hurts sometimes, especially when the Roman Catholic church misrepresents the Gospel. When the Roman Catholic church succeeds with it’s smoke and mirrors, they will encourage congress and state legislators that’s illegal immigration is permissible and we shall take care of their people.

      Report Post » poverty.sucks  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:36pm

      Teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin and without original sin is in direct contradiction to the scriptures. Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.(The word “knew” means to know someone in a sexual way.) She had other sons and daughters that were not miraculously conceived as Christ was.
      Matthew 13:55,56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? She had to offer up a sin offering after the birth of Christ. Luke 2:22-24 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
      And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
      Leviticus 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest: Galations 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • Thun
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:01pm

      For those of you who have only heard of the Ark of the Covenent from a Steven Spielberg movie,
      I would advise you to open your Bible to the 25th chapter of Exodus. It is an exquisite box made with fine linen and gold and adorned with two images of Cherubs (so much for God not allowing any graven images at all) and made of Acacia wood- a wood known for it’s incorruptibility.

      The Ark was magnificently built and must have been a sight to behold.

      The purpose of the Ark was to hold the Word of God- the Torah and the Ten Commandments.

      When ever Israel went into battle, led by the Ark, they never lost.

      Now, the Ark was a created thing. It was not a god, nor did anyone ever think it was or accuse anyone of thinking it was. Yet, the Ark of the Covenant carried within it the Word of God and that fact made it Holy.

      Report Post »  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:04pm

      Mary was saved by the blood of Jesus prior to conception. That’s why we call it the Immaculate Conception. Jesus could not co-exist with sin. That’s why Mary was full of grace. Can you be full of grace, yet have sin at the same time? No.

      The sin offering was done as a matter of tradition in accordance with Jewish law. Mary, Joseph, and eventually Jesus were devout and followed Jewish law. Every first-born male was taken to be consecrated as a matter of this tradition.

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • oldwmn
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:05pm

      I do care , that is the problem with America as long as its not YOUR PROBLEM it does not affect you everyone is wrapped up in their cocoon As a American whos grandparents were Catholic Hungarian Polish I do find the image beautiful, they should photograph it , blow up the portrait and display it..
      I do care about all people and their cultures, art, beliefs,

      Hitler killed 500,000 Catholics Hungarian Polish Roma gypsies but then no one cared about that either..sad sad day when Christians with their bibles are bashing the Catholics,,are you all going to bash the Buddhist, Jews, Mennonites too?

      Id rather sit next to a Atheist with a cold beer and bowl of pretzels then to some of the bible readers who post here.

      Report Post » oldwmn  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:12pm

      It‘s likely most folks don’t even know anything about the original artwork hanging in a Cathedral in Mexico. When Hillary Clinton visited the original image of the Blessed Virgin she exclaimed ” Oh it’s beautiful, who painted it“ to which the cardinal granting her the visit replied ”God”. Sadly many people don’t know any of the history of how this image converted millions of Mexicans to the Catholic Church and why they still see the original image as an icon to their faith.

      Report Post »  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:14pm

      THUN..You wrote,
      When ever Israel went into battle, led by the Ark, they never lost.
      _____________________________________________________________
      How come the philistines captured the ARK in a battle? See 1 Sam 4:10,11.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • Thun
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:16pm

      1 Chronicles 13:8-10

      8 David and all the Israelites were celebrating with all their might before God, with songs and with harps, lyres, tambourines, cymbals and trumpets.
      9 When they came to the threshing floor of Kidon, Uzzah reached out his hand to steady the ark, because the oxen stumbled. 10 The LORD’s anger burned against Uzzah, and he struck him down because he had put his hand on the ark. So he died there before God.

      Wow!

      The Ark of the Covenant….

      It was uncorruptible. (Hail, full of Grace)
      It carried the Word of God (and the word became flesh and dwelt among us)
      It brought forth the Covenant (this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new covenant).

      It was taken into heaven!

      Psalm 132:8
      arise, O LORD, and come to your resting place, you and the ark of your might.

      It was seen in heaven!

      Report Post »  
    • Thun
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:31pm

      Revelation
      11:19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant could be seen in the temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings, and peals of thunder, an earthquake, and a violent hailstorm.
      12:1 * A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman* clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.12:2 She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth.* 12:3 Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, * with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems.12:4 Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth.12:5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. * Her child was caught up to God and his throne.

      How much clearer can it be? The new Woman/Eve, The Mother of God, The Ark of the Covenant, The Woman clothed with the Sun.

      God? no. Worthy of worship? no. Important to your faith? You better believe it!

      Report Post »  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:31pm

      @THUN

      Amen ! Most people are convicted in their belief and aren’t easily swayed. Thanks for sharing the Truth. Again, as you said, there were two covenants between Man and God. The first ark was man-made. The second Ark is pure and spotless in the Virgin Mary. Both carry that which unites us to God.

      Report Post »  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 1:55pm

      The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.Rome is the harlot of Revelation 17 which sits on seven hills.(the Vatican)..Why then, is yeshua (Jesus) returning to Jerusalem and not Rome???The vatican will be destroyed during the last seven years.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • SeasonOfReason
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 2:01pm

      You all just sound like a bunch of nerds arguing over different interpretations of the lord of the rings.

      Report Post » GodHatesFigs  
    • Craigly
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 2:39pm

      @BOMustGO
      Seriously?!? You believe that the Vatican is the harlot? The little island of Christendom that resides in Rome? Pagan Rome fit the description of seven hills, but you can hardly ascribe that to the Vatican, which does not sit on seven hills, BTW. Only a fringe group of Catholic-hating Protestants believes what you are saying.

      Jesus is not returning to Jerusalem as you have said. He is building a new Jerusalem.

      Listen and please take some advice. Please don’t be bashing other Christians. Think before you post. Promote unity. The evil one is the one who promotes division.

      Report Post » Craigly  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:44pm

      Zechariah 14, Christ does return to Jerusalem and sets up the New Earth and New Jerusalem at a later time.I am only bashing untruths.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • fifthgenmick
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:59pm

      grafitti art is an art form to be distinguished from grafitti which is vandalism on public property or private property without permission. It’s not how I would depict Mary, but she may have gotten a kick out of it.

      Report Post »  
    • Thun
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:16pm

      Mountains, not hills. From the Greek word Horos / Oros. This is a very important distinction.

      For if John is talking about hills (The greek word Bounos), Rome would be a candidate, as would Edinburgh, Constantinople, Cincinatti and San Fransisco.

      However, since the word Horos- mountain- is used, there is only one candidate- Jerusalem. That’s right, Jerusalem is the city that was known in antiquity as the city on Seven mountains because it is the only city in the world built on seven mountains. In fact, Jerusalem was actually called “The city on seven mountains” in John’s time and his contemporaries would have certainly understood the allusion. For the record, they are: Mt. Goath, Mt. Gareb, Mt. Acra, Mt. Bezetha, Mt. Zion, Mt. Ophel, and Mt. Moriah.

      Rome, on the other hand is built on seven hills; Palatine, Aventine, Capitoline, Quarinal, Viminal, Esquiline and Caelian. Identifying these seven hills with the Catholic Church is even more problematic for Anti-Catholics. For Vatican City sits on the opposite side of the Tiber river on it’s own hill; Vatican Hill.

      Report Post »  
    • ManThong
      Posted on June 10, 2011 at 7:04am

      At least he didn’t depict the Virgin Mary sporting a tattoo.

      In this decaying, disrespectful society, anything goes.

      Good luck with the future, you’re going to need it.

      Report Post » ManThong  
    • Aaron in Polk County
      Posted on June 13, 2011 at 6:33am

      Haha, Wipeout.

      Report Post » Aaron in Polk County  
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