Faith

Is the United Methodist Church Headed for an Epic Split Over Gay Marriage?

United Methodist Church Faces Struggles Over Gay MarriageIn June, the Blaze reported that a growing roster of pastors in the United Methodist Church (UMC) are no longer willing to stand for the denomination’s ban on gay marriage.

In fact, these rogue Methodist clergy have been pledging to defy the church and officiate same-sex marriages (some already have been active in doing so), despite the potential for church discipline.

With the passage of gay marriage in New York and with numerous other states — Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont and Washington, D.C. (commonwealth) — allowing homosexuals to wed, the angst over this ban seems to be increasing among various clergy members.

United Methodist Church Faces Struggles Over Gay Marriage

The United Methodist church, while not supportive of gay marriage, does believe in equal rights for all individuals, regardless of sexual orientation.

“The Book of Discipline of the United Methodist Church,” which includes all of the church’s doctrines, reads:

Certain basic human rights and civil liberties are due all persons. We are committed to supporting those rights and liberties for all persons, regardless of sexual orientation.

We see a clear issue of simple justice in protecting the rightful claims where people have shared material resources, pensions, guardian relationships, mutual powers of attorney, and other such lawful claims typically attendant to contractual relationships that involve shared contributions, responsibilities, and liabilities, and equal protection before the law.

Moreover, we support efforts to stop violence and other forms of coercion against all persons, regardless of sexual orientation.

However, the Church maintains that marriage should be reserved for men and women and not gay couples, as the “Book of Discipline” also reads, “We support laws in civil society that define marriage as the union of one man and one woman.”

In terms of comparing the UMC to other Christian denominations, these views aren’t out of the norm. But it seems that clergy, who no longer wish to be governed by what they see as unfair and unjust religious regulations, are standing up to the church and voicing their willingness to go against its marital doctrine. NewsTimes.com captures their sentiment:

The Rev. Vicky Fleming of Bethel United Methodist Church believes Jesus loves everybody and the church’s stand against same-sex marriage and the ordination of gay and lesbian clergy is “out of step” and “behind the times in its thinking.”

The Rev. Paul Fleck of New Milford United Methodist Church believes his God-inspired call to the ministry requires him to “provide pastoral care to all of God’s children” and that means marrying gay and lesbian couples.

So, pastors like Fleming and Fleck are risking it all, as they’ve joined in with a pool of 900 United Methodists in New York and Connecticut who have signed the “A Covenant of Conscience” pledge (part of the “We do! Methodists Living Marriage Equality” movement), claiming that they will support same-sex marriage.

Those signatories include clergy, lay people and congregations. For those clergy who have signed on, they hold the potential of losing their ordination. The full covenant can be read here. See a portion of it, below:

United Methodist Church Faces Struggles Over Gay Marriage

Rev. Jeff Wells of the Community United Methodist Church in Massapequa, Long Island, believes that it’s far-past time that clergy stand up to this discriminatory policy. “I see myself as taking an action for the church because I believe that changing this discriminatory tradition is actually going to revitalize it,” he says.

“There are obviously people in my congregation who are at various places in the spectrum as far as their views on gay marriage, but the conversation has been very respectful,” Wells continues. “Many people support what I’m doing and would like to see our particular local congregation become a reconciling congregation, which is fully welcome to gays and lesbians.”

Below, see Methodist Pastor Michael Gray discuss his take on gay marriage:

Not everyone in the UMC agrees, though. Numerous Methodist pastors have come together to rail against their fellow reverends rogue response to the Church’s same-sex marriage policies. Those in opposition came together to pen a letter to all active church bishops. Here’s their reasoning for sending the note:

The letter was written to communicate a deep concern regarding more than 900 ministerial colleagues who have pledged to perform same-sex weddings, despite the church’s prohibition against such ceremonies. This widespread ecclesiastical disobedience threatens to tear apart the covenant which holds The United Methodist Church together. It is also a direct challenge to the clear teaching of Scripture.

And here’s a portion of the letter:

United Methodist Church Faces Struggles Over Gay MarriageConsidering geographic differences in political and social ideologies and the intensity with this debate appears to be raging, it seems prudent to question what the future holds for the UMC.

Clearly, with so many clergy seeing the Church as wrong-headed on the issue of same-sex marriage and pledging to act out in their disagreement, it may not be possible for leadership to simply ignore their demands.

Is a split on the horizon? Let us know your thoughts in the comments section.

Comments (83)

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  • TheCalvinistPastor
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:44pm

    Just like sodom and gomorah. The church is turning Apostate in front of our eyes. Why even profess a faith in Christ if people are allowing this behavior! Just wait, the next thing that is coming is “Inter Generational Love” Its not far off, people will be fighting in the name of “Equal rights” for inter generational love as well. All the same excuses that this community uses to justify their actions, so it will be with the next level of sin. The only thing to stop this is a turning to God. An ethical change is needed in our country, not a political one.

    Report Post » TheCalvinistPastor  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 12:59am

      And because they were not obedient to Him..turning away from him…not giving Him glory..He turned them over to perverseness. The Methodist Church also stands for Palestinians against Israel….this is a false church..You cannot serve 2 masters…and their master is not Jesus.

      Report Post »  
    • Fletcher13
      Posted on November 2, 2011 at 2:10pm

      The United Methodist Church has been apostate for years! There is nothing new here but the next notch in their depravity!

      Report Post »  
  • garyM
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:14pm

    At least part of the Methodist are standing strong one part of the Bible! A person would be required to removed many passages in the Bible to justify homosexuality in God’s eyes!

    Report Post »  
  • Hermano
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:02pm

    I grew up in the UMC but they were unable to keep me. They couldn’t even help me stay with God. It wasn’t until I started reading the Bible for myself that I was able to find Jesus Christ. The UMC and all other denominations need to read the Bible and adhere to it. In this way will they benefit mankind for the glory of God.

    Report Post »  
  • bornagaincowgirl
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:11am

    The “religious system” is going to collapse like everything else. He is going to shake everything that can be shaken…only what is truly Jesus Christ will stand. Are you garments pure and white? Is your wick trimmed and lamp full of oil? May God have mercy on us all.

    Report Post »  
    • Action-Not-Just_Words
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:21pm

      Can only add a LOUD AMEN! Only through Christ is there any hope.

      Report Post » Action-Not-Just_Words  
    • Discord
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:09am

      I stand by the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
      Blessed be her holy hooves!

      Report Post » Discord  
    • RustyElbows
      Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:09am

      @ Discord – Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:09am

      I stand by the Invisible Pink Unicorn.
      Blessed be her holy hooves!
      ———————
      The sinful nature of which I was born replies – Diccord…. you’re an idiot in the 1st degree!
      But my Born Again side takes hold and says…..I will pray for you.

      Report Post » RustyElbows  
  • thegreatcarnac
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 10:43am

    The methodist church has become so liberal that I thought they had already performed gay marriages. The fact that they have not…. gives me some hope for them. If they ever become THAT liberal….then they shall surely split and fall apart…..and lose more members. They would deserve to.

    Report Post »  
  • InNotOf
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:56am

    I’m not giving up on the UMC. I will fight to preserve its biblically-based heritage. I won’t leave the UMC until the UMC leaves me. Fortunately for next year’s General Conference, Methodism is growing in Africa, while declining here. More conservative, pro-family, pro-life delegates will be present while those declining progressive conferences in the United States will have fewer representatives in attendance.

    I recommend you read Mark Tooley’s “Taking Back the United Methodist Church”. It will make your eyes bleed when you see what the church has done over the years, but there is hope. It seems that UM leadership is out of touch with those who sit in the pews. Irrelevant retired bishops who don’t think the Bible is good enough anymore want to highjack my denomination. They seem to forget John Wesley said: “The Church is to be judged by the Scriptures, not the Scriptures by the Church.”

    I’ve been following Mark Tooley and the Institute on Religion and Democracy (theird.org) for years. Mark is the watchdog over mainstream Protestant denominations. The IRD’s mission states “we are Christians working to reaffirm the church’s biblical and historical teachings, strengthen and reform its role in public life, protect religious freedom, and renew democracy at home and abroad.“ Their vision is ”to lead the fight rallying Christians to champion biblical, historic Christianity and its role in democratic society, and to defeat revisionist challenges

    Report Post » InNotOf  
    • Solzhenitsin
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:31pm

      As a staffer in a conservative UMC congregation, IRD and Good News, the magazine for renewal-minded United Methodists, are a great lifeline of encouragement in a very liberal regional conference.

      Report Post »  
    • honestynow
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:28pm

      “It seems that UM leadership is out of touch with those who sit in the pews.”
      I think you are so right on this! I hope the conservative branch of this church stands strong and can return the UMC to the truth.

      Report Post »  
  • joe1234
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:29am

    I wonder what John Wesley would say….

    well no I really don’t….I know exactly what he would say….

    Report Post » joe1234  
  • blancojoe
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:02am

    The United Methodist Church has been very, very Liberal for many decades, and it only gets worse. This is an example of what is referred to in the Bible as a doctrine for “itching ears” …. in other words, change the doctrine so it feels good for your earthly desire, and wants. VERY wrong, and I hope that church will decline in all aspects until it turns to what is taught in the Bible, not what is wrought by man.

    Report Post »  
  • Letter
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:02am

    Peope are getting to the point that they allow sin in the name of freedom and it’s even getting in the church. I wonder what the mark of the antichrist will be. Remember, Moses told the Israelites, “And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart. . . . Thou shalt bind them for a sign on thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes” (Deuteronomy 6:6, 8). Again Moses said, “Therefore shall ye lay up these mine words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes” (Deuteronomy 11:18). “The mark is coming, so watch out. It will be tricky, almost deceiving the very elect. I tend too think it will be of the mind. Not a mark that you can see or micro chip like some people are expecting. If you allow sin to run rampant and brush it under the rug in the name of freedom how can you expect young children to know the difference between right and wrong, you are sending out a message and a harvest will come of it. We are to treat others as we would want to be treated. What born again christtian would sit back and act like something that is takling a person to hell is ok. Sure people have a choice but it is our duty as christians to warn them and not condon sin we are to be and example in this wicked world.

    Report Post »  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:46am

    How can we expect God to continue to bless this country? Pray for revival people, without it we are done.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
  • pylgrym47
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:30am

    “The Church in the world is the Gospel; the world in the church is a tragedy”

    Report Post » pylgrym47  
  • NC
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:47am

    A split is coming but what many Methodist members and non-members may not know is their Methodist Church (building and property) does not belong to the congregation. It belongs to the UMC itself, based in Washington D.C. (across the street from the Supreme Court building).

    If the Church does split, only the Churches that fall in line with the national / official stance on marriage will allow to keep their buildings.

    Speaking as a non-member of the UMC but I do attend with regularity, many in this small community church will take this matter to prayer, but will continue to attend, regardless of the national stance of the UMC. They are already tolerating social justice, women ministers, lesbian bishops, and now gay marriages? It is for these reasons

    I will not join the UMC and my tithes are designated to stay in the community for specific works and organizations. I will not financially support the national branch of the UMC.

    The bible? just an old and antiquated manuscript…Jim Wallis doesn‘t need no stinkin’ bible.

    NC

    Report Post » NC  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:35am

    We have left the mainstream umc over their refusal to stick with Biblical mandates. “Tolerance” is wrong, period. That is also Biblical, by the way. Lead by a confrontation with a church leader to “do my homework”, I did. The church is still there misleading people who attend and who do not believe GOD means what HE says. The CHRISTIAN faith is not easy and often it “doesn’t feel good”. Our GOD works often time outside our comfort zones. For example, the homosexual issue. It is much easier to appear to be “open minded” and accepting so people will like and accept us than it is to say, “GOD has this to say about homosexuality. I believe HIM. I stand with GOD.”

    It takes COURAGE to follow GOD and to be a CHRISTIAN.

    Thank YOU, JESUS, for YOUR invitation to walk with YOU. In YOUR name we pray, amen.

    Report Post »  
  • Bro Geo Too
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 6:49am

    While it troubles me to see Christendom in disarray and dividing, it would be devastating to discard clear Biblical teaching that homosexuality is an abomination.

    So let the line be drawn and sides taken–as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

    Report Post »  
  • Meyvn
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 5:41am

    The Methodists have been corrupt for a long while now. I do not find this surprising.

    Report Post » Meyvn  
    • Hank919
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 6:46am

      How so? This is a very broad generalization.

      Report Post »  
    • louise
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:17am

      Hank,
      Whether it is the methodist, or presbyterian, or catholic, or any other church, the truth always comes out. Either they believe in the Word of God and what God says on this matter, or they do not. If they do not believe the Word of God regarding homosexuality, they has no business calling themselves churches or ministers of the Word of God.
      People are not stupid, and they are searching for that unshakable foundational Rock which is Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour.If people want their own little pseudo-church that treats scripture as a smorgasbord where they choose which parts they will accept and which they won’t, then they are going to do that.
      And yes, there will be a “separating out”. Actually the separating out has already happened….because of the fact that those people who cannot accept false doctrine will not sit under any pastor or priest or rabbi who would encourage this. They always leave.

      Report Post » louise  
    • Locked
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:58am

      Louise,

      Just a hunch, but do you use the King James’ Version of the Bible?

      Report Post »  
    • louise
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:49am

      Locked,
      I use the New American Standard Version in conjunction with the King James Version.

      Report Post » louise  
    • Solzhenitsin
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:37pm

      There are many people who are in the UMC who strive to renew their denomination’s regard for Biblical authority. Please don’t condemn the whole group over a handful of headline-grabbing liberals. Support them with your prayers, and if you like, contribute to IRD to hold the libs in the UMC accountable.

      Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:37pm

      Locked,

      Are you operating under the idea that traditional beliefs about the sinfulness of homosexuality come from the KJV? That would be very bizaare, since Catholics don’t use it and the Catholic Church is rather firm on this issue, even if many laymen and priests fall short.

      While there are minor doctrinal differences, or rather different theological perspectives, which have led to the creation of the varying Biblical translations, none that I know of were created by any body departing from the tgraditional view of sexual morality (apart from some very fringe versions, perhaps, created for a very limited audience). The NIV is out of the eformed Evangelical part of Prtoestantism, but a Calvinist is as likely to use the Geneva Bible or the KJV as the NIV. You simply cannot tell, even if you can discern his theological orientation.

      Besides, it doesn’t matter that much what translation you read, as long as it is Trinitarian, because the Bible is never read in a vacuum. It is read in the context of the community of faith. And if that community has preserved the teachings of what is morally repugnat and unnatural and what is not then the Binble read by those worshippers will be used to reinforce their moral beliefs. If that communinty departs from those moral standards they will read their Bibles through that prism.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
  • TemayElbor
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 5:41am

    THE LORD, ” …went into the temple and began to cast out them that sold therein , and them that bought; saying unto them ‘IT IS WRITTEN ,MY HOUSE IS THE HOUSE OF PRAYER ; BUT YE HAVE MADE IT A DEN OF THIEVES.” ( Luke 19:45,46).

    Can you imagine, if right after this incident…….. TWO GAYS CAME TO HIM, ASKING HIM TO MARRY THEM? WOULD JESUS THROW THEM OUT OF THE TEMPLE AS WELL?

    I THINK, HE WOULD SAY UNTO THEM “WHO TOLD YOU THAT MARRIAGE IS THE RIGHT THING FOR YOU IN MY HOUSE OF PRAYER?”

    I think, their answer would be “THE DEVIL WHISPERED UNTO US THAT IT IS RIGHT.”

    I believe, both incidents involve money. The first one triggered the events that led to His crucifixion…that ended with thirty pieces of silver…for His life. The second is to safeguard the assets (money, pensions, etc.) of the two parties involved in the gay marriage.

    “MONEY (SURELY) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL”

    Report Post »  
    • JamesHMiller
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:05am

      Money is not the root of all evil. It is the love of money. 1 Timothy 6:10

      Report Post »  
    • iamsaved
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:05am

      Maybe a better example to use from the Bible was not the money changers at the Temple but the woman who was caught in adultery and was about to be stoned. Read the last part – “…Neither do I condemn you: go, and sin no more.” John 5:14 – Did you get that last part? sin no more.

      And, you can create hypothetical situations all you want, but that’s all they are, your ideas about what Jesus should or shouldn’t have said or done. Why not use actual scripture to further your arguments rather than scenarios that would support what you want the Bible to say?

      Report Post »  
  • dnewton
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 1:24am

    I don’t understand them using a letter that alludes to Martin Luther Kings idea that “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.” This could only be true if injustice was a social construct and an idea that was catching on or a fad. Methodist don’t think that performing a marriage is a social contract. It is a contract with God. The incidental involvement with the state makes it appear more and more like a social contract with the state. I even live in a state that charges more for a license if you don’t get counseling first. What should have been said is, ” Injustice anywhere means we have to change the dictionary everywhere.” We all have the right to marry at least one legally qualified person of the opposite sex unless you are a Muslim of the Sharia flavor. If you reject that right, then you want more rights than everyone else has. The level of injustice here does not rise to the level of slavery or gross social discrimination. It is fascinating to me that ministers are acting as if their conscious is bothering them for failure to perform same sex marriages. There are plenty of ministers that will perform a same sex union. They are not preventing anyone from getting a same sex union. What they are preventing is the perception that God approves of the marriage between people of the same sex. I realize that some homosexuals have a hard life because of their lifestyle, but after a point, some of their problems are self inflicted.

    Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:43pm

      Maybe we should respond to the Mantra “injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” by putting a different focus on the formula:

      “Unrighteousness anywhere is a threat to righteousness everywhere”.

      I wonder how they’d like THAT?

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
  • An_American_Thinker
    Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:53am

    I am a lifelong Methodist. I have educated myself with an open mind in other religions and have never found another religion to be as open and loving. I find comfort in the welcoming scripture-based worship service, and the open communion rail. Methodists believe in love of all people, in giving and helping others. Doctrine that clarifies scripture, yes; doctrine that overrides or replaces scripture, no. Methodists are called to love all as Jesus did. I believe we can love all and worship together, but because of scriptural tenets, I do not agree with same-sex Church marriage. I believe a governmental civil union should be available to those who choose it, but feel marriage in the Church goes against scripture. A doctrinal change would most surely cause a schism within the Methodist Church, as it would lead to gay and lesbian clergy.

    Report Post »  
  • scarebear83
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:56pm

    This is what happens when people decide to interpret the Bible based upon how they feel and not let the Bible interpret itself. His Word is as clear as day and who are we to change His Word, add to it, or take away from it? God’s Word plainly states that homosexuals will NOT inherit the kingdom of God!

    Report Post » scarebear83  
    • Solzhenitsin
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:44pm

      Actually , it‘s pretty clear that unrepentant sinners of all types won’t inherit the kingdom, but read the passage to which you refer; note the phrase “such were some of you, but…” Christ can, has and will save all who receive Him.

      1 Corinthians 6:9-11(NASB)
      Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.”

      Report Post »  
  • Salamander
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:46pm

    Go forth, and divide!

    Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:30pm

      That is exactly what Jesus said He came to do. Let them have have their “church”. It just is not the “church of Christ”.
      And they can say did we not do marriages in your name, and Jesus will say… yo, do I know you, cause, I’m thinking not!
      No appeals at that court case……..

      Report Post »  
  • JamesHMiller
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:21pm

    I was raised in the Lutheran Church. The adulteration of God’s word happened slowly over many years, culminating into the acceptance of this liberal interpretation of the law of Almighty God. I left the Lutheran Church after serving on council and trying to fight this in my local synod. I have joined a small Independent Baptist Church, and finally for the first time in my life, I am learning the unadulterated Bible. I cannot get over the lies I was taught my whole life. This is what I was not taught: God is a holy and righteous God. He would love nothing more than for these sodomites to turn from there fleshly sins and call on him and be saved. I am not saying that they are saved or not, but I do know that if they have sin in them then they cannot have a relationship with The Lord. Jesus came to save the sinner, to be saved that sinner must repent of their sins and ask for His forgiveness. To have someone that is in a committed relationship with sin as the leader of a so called church is beyond all comprehension. How can a person lead others to Christ if they cannot be in a relationship with God themselves?
    Jesus is coming soon! Are you ready?

    Report Post »  
    • Consentiondum
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:47pm

      If you have sin in you you cannot have a relationship with God? Doesn’t that then exclude all 7 billion of us?

      Report Post »  
    • Salamander
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:48pm

      But, but, butt !

      Report Post »  
    • NYHuguenot
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:56pm

      Is there any Mainline denomination that hasn’t fallen? They’ve diluted their main doctrinal beliefs, banned their catechism so that the youth and new Christians have no idea what the basics of the faith are. I used t be in the PCUSA. In my youth I was RCA and the Heidelberg Catechism was a sort of lectionary for the Pastor. One night in a bible study some people who had joined our PCUSA church asked me where I had gotten my extensive knowledge of the scriptures and interpretation skills. “The Catchism” I answered. “Isn’t that something the Catholic used”? one said. PCUSA abandoned the Westminster years ago and combined it and the other Confessional statements together as a foundation for truth even theough the Confessions conflict at some points. Officers take an oath to accept this Book Of Confessions as truth. What’s wrong? This book is revised constantly. The Bible which the only source of truth for Christians never changes just as God does not change. They’ll all merge one day and even have a statement to that effect. With no particulars to believe in it will be more of a social club than it is now. And yet they wonder why smaller and more ortodox congregations are growing. Why these congregations have more tithers and larger numbers of missions supported. Why would anyone belong to these liberal churches when they are no different than what they can see at the local Starbucks? At soem of them they CAN get Starbucks.

      Report Post »  
    • scarebear83
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:23am

      Consentiondum: All have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. (Rom. 3:23) But those who Hear the Word of God (Rom 10:17) Believe Jesus Christ is the son of the living God (John 6:47) Repents of their sins (to turn from sin Luke 13:3) Confess Jesus Christ is Lord (Rom. 10:9-10) and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:38 Acts 22:16 1 Peter 3:21) We must then be faithful unto death (Rev 2:10) Yes people slip from time to time and no one is perfect but that’s why we ask for forgiveness and keep pressing towards the goal. When a person becomes a Christian they bury the person they once were and come up new (having their sins washed away) and after that you must strive to live the Christian life so that means stop cussing, drinking, lying, stealing, being in adulterous relationships etc. We’re all sinners, it’s those who are in Christ (who have obeyed the Gospel) that can have a relationship with Him.

      Report Post » scarebear83  
    • scarebear83
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:45am

      NYHUGUENOT: There is a church, it’s not a denomination and with a little bit of looking might could find one in your area. It doesn’t have creeds, statements of faith, or a committee or a central headquarters where all the decisions are made through a bunch of people on a board 4 states away. It is run by local men of the congregation and each congregation is (or at least should be) run this way and all authority comes from God‘s Word and not man’s. Might I suggest looking for a church of Christ? (Not United church of Christ or Latter Day Saints but simply “Location” church of Christ or church of Christ “at Location”). Nothing but the Bible should be taught (however sometimes you do have congregations that deviate but it should have been up to the overseers of that particular congregation that should have dealt with it). If you would like to know more you can go here http://church-of-christ.org/ It’s not a headquarters or a main website but it is one that a congregation took upon themselves to help people understand what the churches of Christ are all about.

      Report Post » scarebear83  
    • iamsaved
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:07am

      Amen brother!

      Report Post »  
    • williamwhitebird
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:43pm

      I suggest you try the Southern Baptist if you want a church that teaches the Bible. The name may change in a few years to reflect the SBC world wide adherants but the teaching will remain the same.
      The SBC is a vast number of individual churches that work together for the cause of Christ. Each owns thier own property. If one goes liberal they can leave the SBC and do as they please. I feel for my Methodist friends who fear being locked out of thier churches if the UMC goes gay and they don’t go along.

      Report Post »  
  • squeegeeman
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:19pm

    add that to their support of Palestine and condemnation of Israel and you can see why their membership is fleeing…….

    Report Post » squeegeeman  
    • Solzhenitsin
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:50pm

      And those in the southwest who add to this the aiding and abetting of lawbreakers (which is not Biblical) in the name of “compassion to the alien” (to which the word of God calls us) are in the conference with the greatest loss of membership.

      Report Post »  
    • TexasTall
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:40pm

      I gave up my membership in the FUMC four years ago, and I feel so much better, now. Some of the reasons I quit that church were their negative attitude toward Israel, their refusal to teach the Bible which included what God said about homosexuality, and their affiliation with the National Council of Churches. It was a lukewarm church and was more like a country club than a church. One of its preachers actually said he didn’t believe in the resurrection or the Immaculate Conception! He didn’t leave voluntarily since he died a few months after becoming our minister. Hmmmmm.

      I hope the conservative half of the Methodist Church knocks the sand from their sandals and will start another church of their own. It’ll be interesting to see which church grows in numbers and which one does not.

      When a church is more interested in counting beans and not offending anyone than in teaching the Gospel, that church is headed for extinction. I now go to a non-denominational church whose preacher tells it like it is, and that church is huge and growing.

      Report Post »  
  • RightThinking1
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:15pm

    “Is a split on the horizon?”

    Yes. Grievously, yes. Those who are given to hedonistic self indulgence are perfectly willing to steal the church. There are an entire panopoly of rationalizations they will use to justify the process, but that is how they lead their lives.

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  • jimay
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:15pm

    I get the uneasy feeling that this might be more of a worship of ones free will than worship of God.
    Fortunately for those who are so strongly committed to this, the Methodist Church claims no exclusive path to God’s love.
    For those who place such an exclusive priority on a single issue I wish them the best and encourage them to continue their faith walk. If they can‘t abide by the church’s book of discipline the remedy is to move to the path they feel suits them. I’d feel obligated to do the same if I felt such a personal schism.

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    • Kimmiemffl
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:21pm

      Thanks for sharing that thought. Well said.

      Report Post » Kimmiemffl  
    • Salamander
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:49pm

      Or, they could join the Presbyterians and just turn things to their own ends!

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  • HorseCrazy
    Posted on October 26, 2011 at 10:41pm

    As a Jewish believer in the Messiah, I am divided on the way the churches treat this issue. I am in no way shape or form pro gay marriage but I am fine with secular civil unions. I do believe something has to be done to make them feel welcome at church and not condemed. I believe and have heard from gay neighbors and friends that they feel judged and intimidated by the Christian community, embracing the lifestyle isnt the answer but somehow we as the Christian community need to make a change towards them if we ever want them to become followers of Christ.

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    • vennoye
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:13pm

      The people should never condemed………just the lifestyle. Is a very sad situation though…..what is written is very clear.

      Report Post » vennoye  
    • Letter
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 10:29am

      A change toward them? We can‘t accept their ways and that’s what they want. We can tell them God’s truth and about Him sending Jesus to die for our sins but the choice is theirs to make. Pray for them. It also might do good pointing out they should care more about God’s word instead of thinking about what their neighbors and friends think.

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    • Islesfordian
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:53pm

      “I do believe something has to be done to make them feel welcome at church and not condemed.”

      Before they repent of their sin? What would be the point? Church is for repentant and forgiven sinners, those who are determined to walk in the ways of holiness through the power of the new life in Christ, no matter how many times they may stumble. Church is not for those who don’t know why they should repent of their sins. Let them come in, but they should be made aware that they are on the outside of God’s love and forgiveness so that, if they decide they want to be on the INSIDE, they will know what they must do. Welcoming willful sinners into church with no sense of judgment against their sin would be an injustive to their souls.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
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