Faith

Is the Vatican Throwing Its Support Behind Occupy Wall Street?

A new document released on Monday by the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace has some people wondering if the Catholic Church is aligning itself with the Occupy Wall Street movement. But while some critics may embrace this notion, others flatly reject it.

Prior to the document’s release, Father Thomas Reese (who is often described as liberal), a fellow at Georgetown University’s Woodstock Theological Center, described the proposal as “closer to views of the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement than anyone in the U.S. Congress.”

Watch Reese’s controversial comments, below:

He also says that the document calls for the “redistribution of wealth and the regulation of the world economy by international agencies.” Even more surprising, he contends that it is to the left of both Barack Obama and Nancy Pelosi.

While not coming directly from the Pope, himself, the proposal seems to follow up on Pope Benedict XVI’s 2009 economic encyclical that denounced a profit-at-all-cost mentality as responsible for the global financial meltdown.

The 18-page document, entitled, ”Towards Reforming the International Financial and Monetary Systems in the Context of a Global Public Authority,” seeks out technical solutions to global economic problems. The proposal essentially calls for a world-wide governing body that would serve as an economic clearinghouse.

Through this proposal, some say that the Vatican is essentially calling for a radical reform of the world’s financial system, including the creation of a global political authority to manage the economy. According to the Washington Times’ Jennifer Harper:

The ideas refer back to a 1963 papal encyclical that suggested, “The universal common good presents us with problems, which are worldwide in their dimensions; problems, therefore, which cannot be solved except by a public authority with power, organization and means co-extensive with these problems, and with a worldwide sphere of activity.”

Reuters describes this as follows: ”It called for the establishment of ‘a supranational authority with worldwide scope and ’universal jurisdiction’ to guide economic policies and decisions.”

The aim, some say, is for a new world economic order based on ethics and the search for the common good. The new document stresses that “the economy needs ethics.” Harper reports that some U.S. Catholic scholars and priests see the document as being a potentially “stark contrast” to the ideals espoused by fiscal conservatives. In the end, some say the result could be support for some of the same proposals that the Occupy Wall Street protesters would endorse.

Currently, portions of an unofficial translation read:

Among the policies, those regarding global social justice seem most urgent: financial and monetary policies that will not damage the weakest countries; and policies aimed at achieving free and stable markets and a fair distribution of world wealth, which may also derive from unprecedented forms of global fiscal solidarity, which will be dealt with later. [...]

In fact, one can see an emerging requirement for a body that will carry out the functions of a kind of “central world bank” that regulates the flow and system of monetary exchanges similar to the national central banks. The underlying logic of peace, coordination and common vision which led to the Bretton Woods Agreements needs to be dusted off in order to provide adequate answers to the current questions.

Some, like Reese, say that the Pope’s own words showcase his deep support for the redistribution of wealth and government intervention — an insinuation that some would call baseless:

The pope disagrees with those who believe that the economy should be free of government regulation. “The conviction that the economy must be autonomous, that it must be shielded from ‘influences’ of a moral character, has led man to abuse the economic process in a thoroughly destructive way,” he writes. “In the long term, these convictions have led to economic, social and political systems that trample upon personal and social freedom, and are therefore unable to deliver the justice that they promise.” [...]

While Benedict acknowledges the role of the market, he emphasizes that “the social doctrine of the Church has unceasingly highlighted the importance of distributive justice and social justice for the market economy.” He unflinchingly supports the “redistribution of wealth” when he talks about the role of government. “Grave imbalances are produced,” he writes, “when economic action, conceived merely as an engine for wealth creation, is detached from political action, conceived as a means for pursuing justice through redistribution.”

On CatholicVote.org, Thomas Peters rails against Reese’s assertions. He writes:

In a scenario which will surely strike some as deja vu, the liberal jesuit Fr. Tom Reese previewed the contents of the document last week, in much the same way that the liberal Fr. Charles Curran* “previewed”Humanae Vitae for the mainstream media before the document was actually released (the pope overruled Fr. Curran’s claims that the Church would endorse contraception — but the media had already made up its mind and few bothered to actually read what the pope had to say).

Also, Peters notes that the document should be read as a “contribution” to the overall discussion and not as a mandate coming from the Vatican. He quotes Cardinal Turkson, President of the Congregation for Justice and Peace, and Bishop Toso, the secretary, who explained, in full, how the proposals should be viewed:

…It is in this spirit of discernment that the Holy See, with the note of the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace, wishes to make a contribution which might be useful to the deliberations of the G-20 meeting”.

Bishop Toso explained that the aim of the note is “suggest possible paths to follow, in line with the most recent social Magisterium, for the implementation of financial and monetary policies…”

The Church does not wish to enter into the technical issues behind the current economic crisis, but remains within the ambit of her religious and ethical functions…

Clearly, no official endorsement of the Occupy movement is being made here. While some may see some similarities between the ideas and statements being made within the document and among protesters, the church apparently wants to provide ideas for potential solutions.

This article has been updated.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Comments (828)

1 2 3 ... 15
  • SUEB
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:17am

    Hey Pope Benedict……..RELEASE the THIRD letter from FATIMA ! ! !

    Report Post »  
    • Amy
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:38am

      I agree. Although the letter likely surrounds Russia, the ‘universal’ folks need to know the truth. The Vatican money vault must be losing its weight.

      Report Post » Amy  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:43am

      Somehow I can see this as part of the ongoing Progressive manipulations and means to the ends; the fact is that infiltration and coersion tactics allowed many of the marxist movements in South and Central America to support revolutions under the guise of a religious support.

      Something here though, just does not feel right; there is more going on.

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • Vechorik
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:45am

      Hummmmmmmmmmm….wonder how that good, Christian Catholic, Rick Santorum feels about his church’s Christian values dictating to America vs the Constitution running America?

      Report Post »  
    • V-MAN MACE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:52am

      I agree with Susan Sarandon.

      Benedict is a former Nazi youth. He is trying to give religious credence to the redistribution of wealth by government when there is no religious justification.

      Read the Parable of the Unjust Steward, and you’ll understand when you realize the central governments and banks of the world have NO INTENTION of redistributing any wealth to the poor.

      They’re hoarding all that wealth to themselves to start a New Financial World Order, and they will KILL US ALL.

      They’re perpetrating like Robin Hood, but in reality they’re just robbing.

      Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
    • copatriots
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:59am

      I agree with you, SNOW, something seems amiss. After a quick research from a few wise posters below, I don’t know much about Father Reese but this from wiki seems enough to question his background and motives:

      “Following his resignation, Reese spent a year-long sabbatical at Santa Clara University before being named a fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center in Washington, D.C.”

      My take is…..the Occupy organizers are trying to pressure the Pope into taking an official stance on the “movement”. Calmer heads, people, many of you are responding exactly how they want….bashing each other. From Catholic versus non-Catholic to when the rapture occurs. Let’s not give them what they want.

      Blessings to all!

      Report Post »  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:05am

      http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/How-the-Vatican-Created-Islam.pdf
      Papal Rome is behind a lot more than you might think..This is absolutely no reflection on the people of the Catholic Church. This has everything to do with its leadership from the beginning.,,her powers have always been far reaching do to all of her members and their money. Who has as much money as this Church/? An organization this big controls the world..Don‘t think that she doesn’t She’s still is beneath the Creator however. On earth..she has been able to do anything that she has set out to do..except silence Martin Luther.

      Report Post »  
    • dogpatch65
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:13am

      I have to hand it to the Vatican: They sure know how to side with losers these days. The Occupy Wall Street crowd that screams about money? HAHAHAHAHA. Just look what happens in the management of their own money:
      http://markamerica.com/2011/10/24/all-is-not-paradise-in-occu-pest-land/
      ROFLMAO

      Report Post »  
    • westtitus
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:18am

      I am a Catholic and will leave the Church if this is how the Vatican feels. This is not Biblical in the least, maybe he needs to read his Bible a little more on finances and what happened to the Isrealites when they asked Sameul for a King….no good can come of this at all. We worhip one true God and not a Government or King which is what socialism and communism require. Coveting is also breaking a Ten Commandment and I am sick of all the “Coveting” of others property and wanting to distribute the way THEY see fit.

      Report Post » westtitus  
    • turkey13
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:23am

      The Catholic Church is afraid of what will happen if obama starts taxing all churches like it should be. These new Bla Bla that is owned by some guy that has 5 homes and 10 cars like the Bakers had need to be taxed. If they are taxed, you have to be fair and tax them all.

      Report Post »  
    • sissykatz
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:24am

      Personally I don’t think we need the Pope involved in our economy.

      Maybe he is going to use the Vatican money. They probably have more

      now than several nations combined.God I never realized how many people

      in this World actually believed in the New World Order. These people are

      insane. I am not Catholic but I have never known of the Vatican using the

      Gazillion dollars they have to redistribute……….From what I understand that

      is one of the Richest places on Earth……Maybe they could auction off some of

      the Treasures they have also…..They have some incredible things in that massive

      Library of theirs….. I would be willing to bet he would not contrubute a dime, nor would

      the Vatican or Vatican City.

      Report Post »  
    • Founding Father2
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:37am

      Occupy Wall Street is a hodge podge of religions. Guess which one is growing the fastest inside the movement… MUSLIMS: http://www.americanparchment.com/video/2011/oct/ows_religion.html

      Report Post »  
    • motonutt
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:39am

      Those of you who do not think that satan is alive and well within the catholic church had better wake up. My mother in law a devout catholic believes algore is right. I was flabergasted when she told me that….this is what she is getting fed from her church.

      Report Post » motonutt  
    • capitalismrocks
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:39am

      V-Man — Pope Benedict as a youth was forced into the Nazi youth organization against his free will and against his parents. Its this kind of action against him and others that helped shape him to be so against what Nazi and Communists believed and still believe in…

      Report Post » capitalismrocks  
    • Marine 1
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:42am

      The Vatican wants a Central World Bank and they want to be it. Big surprise there. If the people of the U.S. knew who had accounts there and how much was in them there would be a revolution of epic proportions. Now just who exactly is supposed to be running this country? The banks or the people? We now have an Idiot-in-Charge who thinks he’s a king, a church that wants to be the bank (is already), and leaders in our country who have set aside the Constitution and the Rule of Law. This is getting worse by the hour now. This, my friends, is insanity at it’s best.

      Report Post »  
    • vennoye
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:48am

      “The conviction that the economy must be autonomous, that it must be shielded from ‘influences’ of a moral character, has led man to abuse the economic process in a thoroughly destructive way,”

      Ah, the “Universal” Church sees an opportunity to become the moral character of our new global order and achieve promance again, that it hasn’t seen since Constantine and the Roman Empire!! Did anyone really think a “one world religion” could be achieved WITHOUT the Catholic Church???

      Report Post » vennoye  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:49am

      Beck has certififably LOST IT. Anybody that claims GAWD is tellimng them what to do needs mental health attention. Period. It gives them license to do anything and that is never a good thing.

      joei234  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:04am

      The Pope can come out himself and say he and the catholic Church are for Social Justice, a New World Order and a One World Government with one Religion thru him and many will stay say it is not true. 

      Fact is the direction OWS is moving aligns perfectly with the Popes Church doctrine of “social justice” or Liberation theology. 

      Fact is the Catholic Church has been manipulating the direction of the USA thru the Club of Rome for decades. 

      Fact is many Protestant Churches have become an image of the Catholic Church and follow it’s doctrine including social justice, the idea behind OWS and will help legislate it thru. 

      Wake up and come out of the beast. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • momprayn
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:11am

      WEST – Refreshing to see your post. Please research yourself about the Catholic doctrines as compared to a non-Catholic Bible. Many good sites of course on the internet also. You’ll find many contradictions & that’s why there are Protestants. God bless you……..

      Report Post »  
    • S_Malc13
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:30am

      Isn’t this all too coincidental? I guess no matter how much we dissect what’s going on in the world, we all know it’s coming to an end. This country is very fragile, a sharp turn back to the right (from the far left) with our current crop of candidates (MSM selected) will only exacerbate our OWS problems.

      Report Post » S_Malc13  
    • jb.kibs
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:39am

      Rome is the KING of failing civilizations and economies… Good luck with that…

      Report Post »  
    • vennoye
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:49am

      thecid100
      Sorry, but Ashes is completely right! We really are nearing the end of this age, and all religious systems are returning to their roots. The Catholic Church is returning to her roots also……look at this image of the new monstrance and tell me you don’t see the basis of the old goddess worship that was woven into the beginning of the Catholic Church to accommodate the old worshipers of Diana, etc. Mary, sitting upon the moon of moon goddess worship, in the middle of the ark of the covenant!!!! I’m sorry, but they just took Mary and gave her the attributes of the goddesses. Mix and mingle, just like we are seeing again!

      http://www.sanctuaryofthedivinemercy.org/

      Report Post » vennoye  
    • wisdomnlight
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:51am

      Pope John Paul did release the third letter during his reign…what’s happening now in the world is what was devuldged in that letter.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:02pm

      Yo West:
      BE A FOLLOWER of Christ…. one church, one body. We need to be that, because that is all Jesus said we needed to be. We need to stop beind Catholic, luthern, UCC, or Baptists.

      God is allowing satan to sift the world… in the end we will be one body and one church…. the bride of Christ. Many will fall away…. many are falling away… you do not seem to one of them… seek the truth, it is the clear path through the wilderness …. good hiking!

      Report Post »  
    • BetterDays
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:08pm

      The “ son of Perdition” comes out from behind it’s illusion of Godliness, and WILL be shown for what IT IS before the beginning of the tribulation. Can any wise person not believe that an institution that once controlled the known world, that an institution that is 1458 years old when all other systems pass before 300 years, that the worlds oldest socialist form of governance won’t TRY to RULE the WORLD AGAIN before Jesus returns ?
      It’s not the people in the Pews, like I used to be, deliberately held unknowing and deceived by their supposed Shepards. Led to strange pastures.

      Report Post »  
    • V-MAN MACE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:08pm

      capitalismrocks

      I don’t believe that for a second. The Catholic Church is wholly corrupt.

      Report Post » V-MAN MACE  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:10pm

      The most outlandish of the era’s right-wing anti-Communists was not Welch but Willard Cleon Skousen. A transplanted Canadian who served as a Mormon missionary in his teens, Skousen was considered so radical in the early nineteen-sixties that even J. Edgar Hoover’s F.B.I. watched him closely; one 1962 memo in his extensive F.B.I. file noted that “during the past year or so, Skousen has affiliated himself with the extreme right-wing ‘professional communists’ who are promoting their own anticommunism for obvious financial purposes.” Skousen was himself employed by the F.B.I., from 1935 until 1951, much of that time as a special agent working chiefly in administration. These desk jobs, he claimed implausibly, gave him access to confidential domestic intelligence about Communism. Skousen also maintained that he had served as Hoover’s administrative assistant; Hoover informed inquirers that there was no such position.

      Skousen taught for years in the speech and religion departments at Brigham Young University, interrupted by a stint, from 1956 to 1960, as the police chief of Salt Lake City. His time in office was contentious, and after he raided a friendly card game attended by the city’s right-wing mayor, J. Bracken Lee, he was promptly fired. Lee called Skousen “a master of half truths” and said that he ran the police department “like a Gestapo”; Skousen’s supporters placed burning crosses on the Mayor’s lawn.

      After losing his police job, Skouse

      Report Post » joei234  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:13pm

      http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2011/10/is_mormonism_a_cult_who_cares_it_s_their_weird_and_sinister_beli.html

      Report Post » joei234  
    • louise
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:17pm

      Vennoye and Okie,

      Excellent posts!!

      The Vatican is calling for a one world central bank.
      http://www.infowars.com/vatican-calls-for-central-world-bank/

      Things are coming together very quickly folks. I hope you know and believe in our Saviour Jesus Christ.

      Report Post » louise  
    • leklogic
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:20pm

      Not only release the third letter, how about all the corruption of the free masons infiltrating the Vatican (i.e. VATICAN II). and for those who don’t have a reply AMY the third letter is about Russia. Once again Russia needs to be consecrated for peace in the world to begin. If anyone knows about Fatima by the way it is Scientifically proven that it happened. It was said that if Russia was not consecrated the evils of Russia would spread through the rest of the world.

      Report Post » leklogic  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:33pm

      @ Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:43am

      Somehow I can see this as part of the ongoing Progressive manipulations and means to the ends; the fact is that infiltration and coersion tactics allowed many of the marxist movements in South and Central America to support revolutions under the guise of a religious support.

      Something here though, just does not feel right; there is more going on.
      ——————————————————————————————————————————————
      The Vatican has been aligned with the Club of Rome since the 1970′s.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • Bearfoot
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:54pm

      Okie from Muskogee,

      Regarding the scarlet colored wild beast. To help identify the “beast” everyone should carefully read Revelation chapters 17 and 18.

      Our Creator and almighty God is not happy with that beast and the woman sitting on top of it.

      Report Post » Bearfoot  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:59pm

      ‘68 was when Club of Rome was born and the Catholic Church was it’s founder. The societies of this Club existed for decades before and the Club simply unified them to advance their cause politically. 

      This Club of Rome has also divided the World into 10 Kingdoms and keep the same agendas like agenda 21, global warming, green movement, social justice, and world government. 

      Clubofrome.org

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:06pm

      Some of you nutters are as delusional and superstitious as Glenny boy! Wow! LOLOL

      Report Post » joei234  
    • PASSIONFORCHRIST
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:40pm

      I always thought the pope was an ignorant man, and he has proven me right. The cathloic church has been waiting to get their power back for decades, and they will. PROPHECY HAPPENING RIGHT BEFORE OUR EYES!!! KNOW WHERE YOU STAND WITH JESUS BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT YOUR GOING TO BE JUDGED FOR!!!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • VigilantGuardShark
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:40pm

      Dear Holy Father, I believe Our God has given us Fre Will, and by doing so intends for us to support eachother according to Conscious. This is also the way I determine my tithe. My tithe is directly impacted by your statements, which I interpret to be of a Communist nature, which I ultimately regard as anti-Christian. As Pope, I feel you should review and amend your statements in this matter. Respectfully and with Faith,
      A Midwestern American Catholic

      Report Post »  
    • povertystriken
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:53pm

      Last October 13 marked the 94th anniversary of the great Miracle of the Sun at Fatima. Though nine decades have passed, the world has yet to receive Fatima’s complete Message. Part of the Message, the Third Secret, remains suppressed despite Our Lady’s request that it be revealed “no later than 1960”. Many Fatima experts believe that the contents of the Third Secret refer to the great loss of Faith in the Church and in the world. In this special five part series which originally appeared in Catholic Family News, Christopher Ferrara presents a historic overview of the events leading up to the crucial year of 1960, and a portrait of the chaos in the Church and world that immediately followed the repression of the Third Secret.

      http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/3rdsecret1.asp

      Report Post » povertystriken  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:56pm

      @Bear Foot

      Howdy my friend! Hope you are doing well. 

      Yup, Scarlet beast and woman sitting on it wears scarlet and purple. 

      I agree really studying Revelations 17-18 is a great idea. 

      Enjoy your day my friend. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:06pm

      @PvertyStricken 
      Don’t Muslims believe in Fatima as well? 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • saranda
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:19pm

      @sueb – the third letter was released a decade ago. Perhaps you haven’t heard yet?

      Report Post »  
    • libertylouise
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:29pm

      The 3rd SECRET of The Lady of Fatima has been RELEASED and it is per Blessed Virgin Mary:
      The Catholic Church LEADERS will join ONE WORLD ODER & Communism and this will be the End of the World and then The NEW Beginning. Most people will go to HELL. Only One THIRD will survive in the WORLD for the NEW BEGINNING of the world. Those that READ the BILBE, go to confession, and Pray and also very important, ATONEMENT is necessary.

      Report Post »  
    • blue suede
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:38pm

      Here come all the loony Catholic haters and bashers.

      Report Post »  
    • 4XGrace
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:53pm

      The NAZI speaks! Good thing he speaks only for himself and his deluded followers and not God.

      Report Post » 4XGrace  
    • rumbler05
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:55pm

      Still a Christian no longer a Catholic !!! Not Socialist,not a progressive “in the political sense” and not an Islamist . We move through history and take along certain traditions and beliefs we hold dear . Work hard and Prosper . Than my family and I will donate to whom we decide!!!

      Report Post »  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:05pm

      The third letter from fatima is a hoax. To foster anti-communism .Kudos to the pope for siding with the protesters. Christianity has more in common with islam which opposes banks and anyone charging interests on loans then with rabid right wing hypercapitalism.[That calvinis /puritanical if you're rich you must be pleasing to God -perversion of christianity-is what made the puritans reviled in europe and brought them to america.] Our greedy hypercapitalist work till you drop -pull yourselves up by your own bootstraps -the rich are the salt of the earth perversion is still with us . Hence the enlightened socialist leaning occupyers and the pope having common ground. And muslims too.

      Report Post »  
    • PASSIONFORCHRIST
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:06pm

      Lets START WITH THEIR VAST MAJORITY OF WEALTH!!!! BET THEY WON’T WANT TO DOLE IT OUT TO ANYONE!!!!!!!!!! IT’S THEIRS AND SACRED!!!!! THEIR NOT A VIOLENT CHURCH? REMEMBER THEIR HISTORY AND NEVER FORGET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • ChiefGeorge
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:38pm

      I really cannot wait to see how this is all going to work out. Millionaires working solely to allow the government to confiscate their wealth and then hand it out to millions of people who do nothing and will then only have the means to produce more of their numbers…requiring the whole process to be revised every few months to adjust up for population explosions.

      Report Post » ChiefGeorge  
    • antrancher
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:40pm

      Did any of you know that when Osama binLaden was killed and the country was preoccupied that Barbara Bush was at the Vatican making a very large deposit. Many insiders have a large amount money invested at the Vatican. Kinda makes a person wonder what is going on with this Pope and the Vatican Bank. I am not bashing George Bush either. I would imagine that history will be kinder to him than the press has. I am a conservative but did not vote for Bush. Google this information up if you do not believe me.

      Report Post »  
    • dogpatch65
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:40pm

      You know Sue, it’s more and worse than that. The Pope and the Vatican have now openly advocated global government:
      http://markamerica.com/2011/10/24/unholy-alliance-between-church-and-state/

      Report Post »  
    • PIGSWILLNEVERFLY
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:55pm

      In 1961 Pope John Paul XXIII appointed AUGUSTINO CASAROLI to form an alliance with Communist Russia to teach Communists “how to make socialism work’ (See pg 560 of the book Vatican by Malachi Martin). In 1979 Augustino Casaroli became Secretary of State of the Vatican. The Catholic Church came up with the terms, Social Justice, and Wealth Redistribution. Google or Wiki; Paul Marcinicus the Vatican Banker, or Cardial Cody of Chicago. Pope John Paul II’s reading material was The World Marxist Review and went to the UN and Called For WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION. Remember Pope John Paul I was assassinated 33 days after he was elected because he wanted to purge the church of corruption, He died the night that Paul Marcinicus and Cardinal Cody were to be arrested. I am a former Catholic from birth. Glad I woke up in the 1960′s, since then, the Catholic Church has totally been infiltrated by Marxists from the core. They all preach “Social Justice” and hide illigals openly. I am proud to be a non-demoniational follower of Christ and reader of the Bible and Believe God and not men who claim to be “holy” with agendas in Rome. Cover of Time magazine Dec. 11, 1989 NEW WORLD ORDER with photo of: Pres G H Bush; the Pope and between them….Augustino Casaroli. Catholics & Communists Preach Social Justice…..WARNING

      Report Post » PIGSWILLNEVERFLY  
    • Kara_ite
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:06pm

      SUEB, it got lost in the mail.

      Report Post » Kara_ite  
    • mils
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:44pm

      OMG~~ what a joke. One of the biggest “gimme” religions in the world..wanting redistribution>>?? you make me laugh.

      Report Post »  
    • countryfirst
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:54pm

      The bible states upon a way of life. God created man but evil created religion, that is why man has been killing each other over religion and this wil never end. I left the catholic church decades ago, also seeing all the hypocrisy didn’t help either.

      Report Post » countryfirst  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:17pm

      @ westtitus
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:18am

      I am a Catholic and will leave the Church if this is how the Vatican feels. This is not Biblical in the least, maybe he needs to read his Bible a little more on finances and what happened to the Isrealites when they asked Sameul for a King….no good can come of this at all. We worhip one true God and not a Government or King which is what socialism and communism require. Coveting is also breaking a Ten Commandment and I am sick of all the “Coveting” of others property and wanting to distribute the way THEY see fit.
      ——————————————————————————————————————————————
      My first love was, is and will remain Jesus Christ, the Word of God. If the Pope has declared this, I’ll join you in excommunicating Roman Catholicism.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:33pm

      read at your own risk. I see that the powers that be have been busy trying to scrub the union of the Catholic Church from the Club of Rome, and the UN mission to abolish Christian absolutes.

      I’ve got 475 links of research material that were active as of yesterday, that have been scrubbed today from cyber-space.

      No matter, they’ll never clean them all out. Here’s one people might find interesting.

      http://about-rome.com/rome-sites/committee-of-300-club-of-rome

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • KevINtampa
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:06pm

      As a Catholic I find this troubling, troubling to the point I think it now necessary that the pope directly explain the position of the Catholic church’s position in these recent events.

      …in reply to SUEB…what he should really read is the Prophecy of the Popes by St. Malachy…

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophecy_of_the_Popes

      With Iran stirring about the 12th Imam, St. Malachy may have hit the proverbial nail on the head…we will see.

      Report Post »  
    • boomboom
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:22pm

      AMEN! Dammit.

      Report Post » boomboom  
    • WeDontNeedNoSteenkinBadges01
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:22pm

      “Is the Vatican Throwing Its Support Behind Occupy Wall Street?”

      What do you think the NEW WORLD ORDER is all about, anyway? It was foretold centuries ago in the Holy Bible (yes, really):

      “The End Time HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE (REBORN)! — Oh, Didn‘t You Notice It’s Arrival On November 3rd 2009?”
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGIey9PitCU
      “… the MOST HORRENDOUS EVENTS in human history coming upon us … [and] the GREATEST EVENT in human history …”

      Arrived in 2009?! You’re late to the game, people!

      Report Post » WeDontNeedNoSteenkinBadges01  
    • johnannegalt
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:55pm

      What vile, sickening hypocrisy. Free education —> http://markamerica.com/2011/10/24/unholy-alliance-between-church-and-state/

      Report Post » johnannegalt  
    • artistskeptic
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:55pm

      Wish the Pape would keep his expressed opinons to theology and stay the hell away from economics!!!@

      Report Post »  
    • Tronix
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:58pm

      It is very clear this is an open and direct call for the establishment of the New World Order. You don’t have to be very smart, or to be an expert on the scriptures to understand that…….Catholics think these are attacks on their faith, but they don’t want to see what is happening in front of their eyes, and don’t want to see what their spiritual leaders are doing behind doors…..

      Report Post » Tronix  
    • LOOKINGFROMTHERIGHT
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:18pm

      May the Pope needs to read the bible. And the LORD said do not give them the fish, to teach them how to fish! (Gospel, Revelation)

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:13pm

      I like the Popes hat. Can he redistribute that to me? Or maybe the cape? How about the staff? I really the staff. Can I have your staff Mr. Pope? What comes around goes around.

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:02pm

      Did this “friend” also tell you to hide and wait until I sign off before you reply?
      You see my post saying I’m leaving and then you post…whose a sneeky little boy?

      Pontifex Maximus(Latin, literally: “greatest bridge-maker”) high priest of the College of Pontiffs
      has nothing to do with the Catholic Church he was part of the ancient Roman religion.

      It is not possible to give an exact year when the Catholic Church began to be called the “Roman Catholic Church,” but it is possible to approximate it. The term originates as an insult created by Anglicans who wished to refer to themselves as Catholic. They thus coined the term “Roman Catholic” to distinguish those in union with Rome from themselves and to create a sense in which they could refer to themselves as Catholics (by attempting to deprive actual Catholics to the right to the term).
      Even today many Protestants who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring themselves to say “Catholic” without qualifying it or replacing it with an insult.

      See there was only the Catholic Church until some time around the mid-1,500′s
      There was no such thing as Roman Catholic church until then.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • decendentof56
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:54pm

      Certainly, the Catholic Church has lost credibility, what with covering for pedophile priests and the willingness of so many of its members to vote for a man for President who supports abortion, and partial birth at that.
      Redistribution of wealth on top of that just is the final nail in the coffin, IMO.

      Report Post »  
  • sta
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:15am

    From Wikipedia – Fr. Reese resigned after seven years as the editor of America due to pressure from the Vatican Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Over a period of five years, the congregation objected to various editorial decisions made by Reese concerning certain issues addressed in the magazine, notably priestly celibacy and the ordination of women.

    Following his resignation, Reese spent a year-long sabbatical at Santa Clara University before being named a fellow at the Woodstock Theological Center in Washington, D.C.

    Report Post »  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:31am

      And just who does the Pope submit to under earthly authority?

      NWO much?

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:42am

      @LIBERTYMOM Who has the riegn of the earth? That’s who the Pope submits to.. Papal Rome is behind the NWO. The Catholic Church threw its support behind Obama. Obama was not only raised by his own choosing in a strict Madrassa..a muslim school…but also in St Francis of Sissisi in Indonesia. After having created the Islamic faith.,,for the raising up of the army of Ismael for the taking of Jerusalem for the Vatican City..and the killing of Protestant Christians and Jews.and the protection of the Augustinian Monks and Roman Catholics. (Islam did all but hand over Jerusalem) The Islamic Army was mighty..and they wanted Eruope…the Pope threw a fit because he wasn’t letting Islamic heathens have his Europe..so he raised an army of his own…killing millions of Protestant Christians and burning millions of Bibles. (Crusades) Islam took Portuga, but when coming upon Italy or Spain,,ran out of manpower ,so through negotiations with St Francis of Sissisi, they agreed to let the Catholic Church reside peacefully in Arab lands and Mosques could reside peacefully in Catholic lands. The Catholic Church is powerful.

      Report Post »  
    • thecid100
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:04am

      ASHESTOASHES. Thank you for your breathtakingly idiotic and completely false portrayal of history. You take ignorance to a new low. I would attempt to correct you, but I don’t know where I would begin, and I think I’d have to work my way through a lifetime of hatred and prejudice. May I at least recommend to you a good history book? Any book should do…supposing you can read.

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:15am

      @TheCid100
      Actually Ashes has it correct. 

      What do you need cleared up? I will gladly point you to the knowledge you clearly lack? 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:22am

      THECID100 “Sticks and stones” dear CID..Maybe you should take off those rose colored glasses and look at the fruits of the Catholic Church throughout history…that is if you can accept what she has done. That‘s in the history books isn’t it? Or has she managed to manipulate them as well.?..oh but then…when you are the richest church in the world..you can do pretty much anything you want. If you want to insult me..you’d best come up with some substance. It’s not hard to see outside of the box.. but first you have to get out of the box.

      Report Post »  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:58am

      The Mormons are baptising dead Jews. Where’s that story on The Blaze?

      “More recently, and very weirdly, the Mormons have been caught amassing great archives of the dead, and regularly “praying them in” as adherents of the LDS, so as to retrospectively “baptize” everybody as a convert. (Here the relevant book is Alex Shoumatoff’s The Mountain of Names.) In a hollowed-out mountain in the Mormons’ stronghold state of Utah is a colossal database assembled for this purpose. Now I have no objection if Mormons desire to put their own ancestors down for posthumous salvation. But they also got hold of a list of those put to death by the Nazis’ Final Solution and fairly recently began making these massacred Jews into honorary LDS members as well. Indeed, when the practice was discovered, the church at first resisted efforts to make them stop. Whether this was cultish or sectarian it was certainly extremely tactless: a crass attempt at mass identity theft from the deceased.”

      Report Post » joei234  
    • S_Malc13
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:03pm

      In all seriousness Ashes, if there’s any specific literature about all of that, I’d appreciate it if you could recommend the reading.

      Report Post » S_Malc13  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:00pm

      @SMALC!3 Okay Malc..THe Catholic Church has tried to distance itself as far from this ex Jesuit as possible by completely discrediting him…not hard to do if you go against them,, this man converted to Christainity and tried to get the word out. After a number of attempts on his life.. he died from food poisoning. When you look at the rest of my posts. .you can see how this all relates..Always look for the fruits.now and in the time to come. You can verify Obama’w raising via wiki. You can see roots of Islam here
      http://www.remnantofgod.org/books/docs/How-the-Vatican-Created-Islam.pdf

      Report Post »  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:15am

    Believers in Christ join Him in the air before the 7 years of ‘uh oh’ happens. A good idea to put faith in Christ now rather than later.

    Report Post »  
    • symphonic
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:05pm

      No they don’t! Show me that in the BIBLE where it says that believers get a 7 year escape from all this? No they don’t! You’ve been reading that FICTION Left Behind series nonsense. Stop it.

      Report Post » symphonic  
    • Gypsy123
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:08am

      Matthew 24:30-36 Gathers the elect from the four corners. The word rapture is not used but indicated. Says nothing about Jesus coming to earth at this time but gathering his people in. People would be wise to look up redemption is on its way. Praise God. They refused to listen because God has sent them a strong delusion.

      Report Post » Gypsy123  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 4:51pm

      You read what is not there
      It say church that IS. Not will be or should be

      Report Post » by faith  
  • stormerwasright
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:12am

    When the Vatican divests itself of it’s untold billions in riches….I’ll perk up and listen…until then…waiting for the Pope to get up off that big ole wallet….

    Report Post » stormerwasright  
    • Charles
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:22am

      The Vatican could give up its billions to the poor or whoever and those billions would be consumed and rendered to waste within a less than 6 months. Then “the poor” would be back belligerently demanding more. . .

      Report Post »  
    • ChristianLayman
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:04pm

      Thanks for volunteering. I‘m glad that you’ve decided to take an oath of poverty and live off the bare essentials of what’s needed to keep a person alive. Your sacrifice wil be remembered as the guy who practiced what he preached.

      Report Post »  
    • Claire in Tucson
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 1:49am

      @Charles. Thank you – you are right. All the Vatican’s wealth would not last the poor very long, and besides, it is not theirs to give away, any more than the Louvre or the Metropolitan Museum should give away all their art to the poor. It is for posterity. Also, I am shocked at the class warfare rhetoric coming from the supposed conservatives on this site, demanding redistribution of the Vatican’s wealth. Maybe we should wait for an actual statement from the Pope, instead of listening to the MSM’s version of events. The Church has always insisted on subsidiarity, fixing problems on as local a level as possible. Read an encyclical before displaying bigotry and ignorance.

      Report Post »  
  • Optimus.Opifex
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:11am

    The real story here is Father Thomas Reese S.J. claiming to represent the Vatican and the Pope. He himself has been forced to resign from his position at ‘America’ by the Vatican. Somehow when they need to talk with a representative of the Roman Catholic Church they can never find a priest in league with Rome. The whole Jesuit order needs to be supressed.

    Report Post »  
  • amerbur
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:10am

    Oh my Lord !!! Good for people is a not matter of a an economic system, it is a matter of the heart and obedience to God. A bigger government headed by corrupt men does not equal social justice, It is called tyranny. Ye,s capitalism can and has become corrupt, but it is more well controlled than a tyrannical system because each person is acting in his best interest (the invisible hand).

    Report Post »  
  • john654
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:10am

    REALLY, PLEASE, TELL ME WHY THIS CRAP ARTICLE WAS POSTED HERE? Someone in authority, please respond.
    God Bless You, John

    Report Post »  
    • Vechorik
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:06am

      I Agree — this article is PROPAGANDA and shame on Blaze for posting it!

      Report Post »  
    • HAPPYRWE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:44pm

      I just want to know if the official Vatican website, I Googled Pope John Paul Jan 2 2004 World Day of Peace Message…… is authentic.

      It clearly preaches Peace but overwhelmingly gives much precedence to the UN and their role in that Peace and Morality………

      just one quote from this page……………“The United Nations Organization needs to rise more and more above the cold status of an administrative institution and to become a moral centre where all the nations of the world feel at home and develop a shared awareness of being, as it were, a family of nations”.(6)

      Report Post » HAPPYRWE  
    • quovadis
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:02pm

      This is typical of the Blaze folks. Print unreliable articles on the Catholic Church and let the mud slinging begin. It is well known, that Mormons love to try to convert Catholics, Evangelicals try to convert Catholics, and on and on. They see their converts as trophies, waving them in the face of the Church. Then these fallen Catholics become the worst, hateful suedo christians (with a small ‘c’) and become the exact example of unChristianlike behavior there is.

      Secondly, why would anyone believe the infowars crap, the owner hates Catholics and creates, reports and prints anything he wants. And don’t believe anything from the American Catholic Church at all. The media loves to get the most radical and dissentfilled Catholics their are to promote as the clarion of the Faith in America. Many of the older priests and bishops were influenced by Marxists and Communists and promote Liberation Theology (condemned by Rome), which uses the language of distributism, etc. The media, and the Blaze, are apart of the misinformation coming out.
      I think “question boldly” has another hidden meaning for the LDS/Evangelical Blaze staff.

      Report Post »  
    • sWampy
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:36pm

      You either have to be stupid or have your head in the sand to not realize that the catholic church is one of the most evil organizations on the planet, and have been responsible for backing some of the most despicable dictators and governments the world has seen.

      Report Post »  
    • Claire in Tucson
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 1:55am

      @quovadis. You are right. It’s really hard to be a Catholic conservative in America, since the media only holds up “social justice” types of dissident Catholics, and those conservatives of other religions, with whom we would love to work have nothing but bigotry toward our religion. We’re really stuck in the middle. The Blaze usually does great fact-checking, but on stories involving Catholicism, the standard seems to be much lower.

      Report Post »  
  • Survivor101
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:06am

    Locally, the catholic church is trying to go back to its conservative roots. Latin mass, dressing modestly, discussing the website where teens can video the unforgivable sin of blasphemy to dedicate their souls to hell, politicians that should be excommunicated for supporting abortion etc…just when I thought about getting involved in the church -this incredible liberal broadside shot. I used to endorse the laws of the church (my uncle was a deacon and excommunicated after not taking vows and refusing to denounce homosexuality), yet politicians that endorse abortion and many other laws that fly in the face of church doctrine are still allowed to take communion. I just do not get it – I will have to leave it to prayer to find the way. I would love to know how much money the church has on its books?

    Report Post »  
    • pamela kay
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:01am

      This is frightening. I feel there is allot more to this. I would like to hear this announcement from the Pope himself. While I am posting this I need to ask the rest of you a question. Are any of you haveing constant pop up ads like support Obama or Obama needs your help? They are showing up everywhere along with ads trying to bait me into free grants, government HC sign ups etc. Is anyone else having this happen?

      Report Post » pamela kay  
    • Claire in Tucson
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:01am

      Here’s the thing. The pope is not an economist (and this letter did not even come from the pope), so nothing he says on the economy is binding on Catholics – it is not a statement of Catholic doctrine. Look up “prudential judgement” in your catechism. It always saddens me to see Catholics ready to abandon their faith over matters of politics. Does faith come first, or politics? Also, read the economic encyclicals and look up the concept of subsidiarity, a bedrock of Catholic economic ideas (also known as Federalism). Until then, why would you abandon the religion itself, the sacraments, and the real presence of Jesus Christ? What is your faith in?

      Report Post »  
  • SpankDaMonkey
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:05am

    .
    As a recovering Catholic, who really cares what the Pope says? Anything coming from a church full of pedophiles does not surprise me……….

    Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
    • GhostOfJefferson
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:14am

      Very, very cheap shot. A small handful of reprobates doesn’t make any church “full of pedophiles”.

      Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • john654
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:20am

      I think this is why the Blaze may have posted this liberal hit piece here. They like when bigots like you bash the Holy Catholic Church! I would love to talk to Glenn Beck on the radio about this article. I personally don’t think he would like it posted here. He does research!

      Report Post »  
    • paulppp2008
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:27am

      A church of pedophiles? Who the hell do you think you are to make that statement? We are talking about 2% of priests. What about the protestants pastors who have done this same thing? Do you realize that the largest group of pedophiles is found in married couples? Before you choose to blast someone, make sure you point your words to the right person…otherwise you would end up getting rid of your own team. Idiot!

      Report Post »  
    • dnewton
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:42am

      This is not just a Catholic problem. The Methodist are full of Communists. There is a Methodist Church in Nashville that was renting( not at fair market rate, I suspect) a building to the Communist who were operating under another name( something or another for Peace and Justice) about ten years ago. The same church used to send people by the bus loads to lobby the legislature for a state income tax, which we still do not have.
      The Catholic Church does not recognize that Capitalism provides for free exchange between millions of people a day in which both parties feel that they are better off afterward. These exchanges are done freely and without coercion. No credit whatsoever can be allowed for the good that these exchanges produce. I wish I could feel as good about the coercive exchange on 15 April as I do about the the voluntary one at the grocery store or even the gas station. If any entity is providing less than fair service , it is the government. If the church was doing what it pretends to do, there would be no need or reason for them to get so overly involved in economics. Since they failed their primary mission, I don’t think they need more things to distract them.

      Report Post »  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:44am

      As spank the monkey doesn’t acknowledge is that public school sex abuse has much higher percentages. And protestant churches…yep lots of sex abuse too.
      But Catholics are not leading the “pedophile pack” as they media would have you perceive.

      I am no fan of Catholicism. they have made a ritual of breaking the second commandment, in fact it is a requirement.
      Survivor101- who cares how conservative or modestly dressed the local Catholic church is becoming? As long as the Doctrine of Trent is not renounced the Catholics are fostering the spirit of the Antichrist. It devalues the Son of God and his sacrifice.

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • LolaB
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:50am

      Like I said and I will say it again…this guy is a guest on MSNBC…that says it all. Duh people, MSNBC had to interview this so-called priest to get his thought on the Occupy Wallstreet nuts. He is a nut himself!!!! Warning: there are MANY radical outfits that are Catholic in name ONLY, such as Catholics for Choice, Catholics United (who this so-called priest is a part of), Network, Catholic Democrats, Catholics in Alliance for the Common Good, etc…… I could go on and on. Even the National Catholic Reporter newspaper is far-left. This nut-case only WANTS to believe that the Pope would be on the side of the Wallstreet Occupiers. These far-left Catholics NEED to leave the Church NOW!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:28am

      @Libertyluvnmomma,

      So you want the Catholic Church to renounce its dogma and agree to the Protestant heresies? You are just another in a long line of bigots against the largest group of chrisitans in the US.

      Report Post »  
    • Iamnotanumber
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:33am

      funny coming from someone who signs in as SPANDAMONKEY

      Report Post »  
    • OpenRevolt
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:47am

      More accurately they are a CHURCH that PROTECTS PEDOPHILES.

      But they also endorse liberation theology, “Catholic Citizenship”, etc.

      Basically the Catholic Church is a political organization that tailors its message to gain power.

      Remember Notre Dame gave Obamanation a PHD just like the Nobel Prize. These organizations are all in league with each other.

      That’s not just “a few liberals”, that’s how the Church operates unless your stupid enough to believe such and ancient and powerful organization has no structure.

      Report Post » OpenRevolt  
    • SpankDaMonkey
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:49am

      .
      2% may have commited the crimes, but 98% hid the truth….

      The problem is “The Truth Hurt’s”……………….

      Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:37am

      @ENCINM to Libertyluvnmomma,
      “So you want the Catholic Church to renounce its dogma and agree to the Protestant heresies? You are just another in a long line of bigots against the largest group of chrisitans in the US”
      SO ENCINOM You call Christians heretics? I have long wondered about your affiliations since you seem to be or support gays.. You must be a priest… you certainly know a lot about the Catholic Church..and you have such good Christian values.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:34pm

      ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:37am
      @ENCINM to Libertyluvnmomma,
      “So you want the Catholic Church to renounce its dogma and agree to the Protestant heresies? You are just another in a long line of bigots against the largest group of chrisitans in the US”
      SO ENCINOM You call Christians heretics? I have long wondered about your affiliations since you seem to be or support gays.. You must be a priest… you certainly know a lot about the Catholic Church..and you have such good Christian values.
      _____________________________
      No, just Protestants. I mean with all this anit-catholic bigotry on the blaze today, you think the Catholics were the same as the Mormons. Of cause, if you could understand context, my comment was directed towards a Protestant heretic looing for the Catholic Church to undue Trent.

      Report Post »  
    • MHP
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:55pm

      encinom

      No question about it, YOU ARE GAY.

      So how bout a date LOL

      Report Post » MHP  
    • joei234
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:13pm

      Perdophilia is widespread and epidemic in the Catholic Church and has been going on ignored for a very long time.

      Report Post » joei234  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:32pm

      Yes they’re full of pedophiles and murderers and every other sin known to manSo what/?The catholic church contains the fullness of revelation about God’s love and salvation for mankind. All that is necessary and fullfilling as a human being who was created to know and love God and to arrive safely in His kingdom-is contained in the truths,and rites of the Church. That it is made up of sinful people-through and through -is because the church on earth contains all the sins of mankind -it is part and parcel of that world too. Stop being so thin skinned about sinners in the church-even sins committed in the name of the Church-only God is sinless. And where the devil is-Christ is also present.Don’t let the sins of pedophia and coverups push you away from the Church founded by Jesus to comfort, strengthen and give grace to humankind .Your prissy pettiness about the sins of the Church won’t make you holy[Unless of course it does-God can do anything].What matters here is that the church regognizes that distribution of wealth is a christian principle and hypercapitalism is antithetical to Chrristianity. calvinist=if you’re rich you must be blessed-is a perversion of being your brothers keeper and the meek inheriting the earth and our home is in heaven.We’ve made an idol of succdess,wealth, amd nationalism. Christ calls us to our common human needs and recognition that all men are brothers under heaven.Hypercapitalism-like totalitarianism- negates those needs and that common

      Report Post »  
    • americathebankrupt
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:19pm

      Dude spankthemonkey.With A BOYSCOUT Emblem.I AM a eagel scout and I Would Like To Beat your ass.

      Report Post » americathebankrupt  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:55pm

      ROSE ELLEN MAN The Islamist promoter and Sharia Law pusher….my my my and what religion on earth would have more pedifiles than the Catholic Church.?..would that be Islam?…don’t you guys have sex with lilttle girls and lilttle boys?

      Report Post »  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:35pm

      @ rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:32pm
      ————————————————————————————————————————
      That was the most convoluted sidestepping, and avoidance riddance coward driven post I’ve ever seen here.

      You should read the Book of Leviticus 21:1-15

      If the Chief Priest offends by entangling the Church with the world, he is a heretic. As a heretic, he cannot be Holy. If he’s peddling social justice and redistribution of wealth, he’s no different then the Scribes, and Pharisee’s who are not merely hypocrites according to Jesus Christ, but “whited sepulchers”. His authority becomes of no effect because he’s not of God.

      Pope John Paul II had it right in April of 2002, when he declared that Priests MUST be perfect, Holy, and Celibate (even as a Catholic I’m torn on that last edict). Where I disagreed with Pope John Paul II is that he should have excommunicated Cardinal Bernard Law, or at least have stripped him of his position. Not only did he allow pedophilia to persist and shame the Church, he facilitated it.

      Pedophilia is an abomination before the eyes of God. Woe unto ANY who would hurt one of these.

      Back to social justice. The Vatican is back peddling from the “whole get behind the movement” idea.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/25/world/europe/vatican-calls-for-global-oversight-of-the-economy.html?_r=1

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
  • major11
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:03am

    Biblical references aside for the moment, let the Pope stay in his lane. I’d rather have our imperfect government control our economy than have some EU knuckleheads dictate who gets what in this world. Look at what chaos they have going on in Europe. I‘m sure George Soros is perfectly aligned with the Pope’s comments. And what did he do to make his money? Essentially, he used free and open economic principles to bankrupt England. What a great guy! We should all follow in his footsteps. Preach the gospel to promote ethical and moral standards around the world. We hear a lot today about what Jesus said about the poor. But what you don’t hear is that Jesus said, I’m paraphrasing, you will always have the poor with you but you will not always have ME with you. More government control is NOT answer! Jesus, not the Pope, is the answer!!!

    Report Post »  
  • snowy
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:02am

    So does this mean that the pope is in favor of socialism,collectivism,communism,or marxism?????? It sure sounds like it to me or am I just crazy????????

    Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:08pm

      Even the prior Pope that took on Socialism preached againsts unregulated capitalism and the dangers of the market to the the poor.

      Report Post »  
  • 4truth2all
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:02am

    I know this will anger many catholics…. but who cares about the pope. My /all salvation is found in Christ and His Word. That is the authority I follow, not even my own pastor do I follow.

    Futhermore is not the vatican rather wealthy, so mister pope man… guess it’s time to give some of that up! (no offence intended)… just truth!

    Report Post »  
  • missy8s
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:01am

    As of today I am a former Catholic.

    SHAME ON THE POPE!

    Report Post » missy8s  
    • sta
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:09am

      All it took was a news story written by people who hate Christians?

      Report Post »  
    • melbhinn
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:14am

      Sounds like you’ve been waiting for an excuse. Bye!

      Report Post »  
    • DawnPalz
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:19am

      I’ve been concerned the past few weeks over some of the terms they are using at Mass. It is starting to sound like an Obama speach. I told my husband I expect my church to be involved and push charity and other issue for the poor. They should lead in these issues. Not government. I just do not like it when they use the same terms as the current government. Such as “social Justice.” This week it was about accepting aliens. I wanted to raise my hand and ask about other passages that have always concerned me that were the opposite of this one. I was already constructing a letter to the our priest now I think I will send a copy to the Atlanta diocese and maybe Rome. I saw a news article commenting on how they are losing contributions. I wonder how much more money they will lose when the government takes more money and power adds more social programs.

      Report Post » DawnPalz  
    • LolaB
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:27am

      Um, I have a feeling you weren’t a practicing Catholic anyway. I have the utmost respect for a Priest…but this guy…he’s a liberal one…and the liberal ones I DO NOT RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • paulppp2008
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:29am

      If this is what it takes for you to lose faith in the Catholic Church, I got news for you: you were never catholic. When you get over your own ego, try to find refuge in God. He loves you just like that! And yes, I’m proud catholic!

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:20am

      @Missy

      Good for you and I hope Christ leads you to His Word. Do not let the mocking or ridicule of those posts above get to you. Your courage is what they envy. Keep seeking truth and God will be there to guide you. If I can ever help you please let me know. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:44pm

      @PaulPPP… A “Proud” Catholic? Pride is the first of seven deadly sins… Just one of the many abominations that fills up the Great Prostitutes golden cup. Wake up!

      Report Post »  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:48pm

      @PaulPPP… You should have faith in the Father and the Son, not in the Catholic Church. Faith in man can only lead you down the wrong path. The Catholic Church veered off the narrow path a long time ago.

      Report Post »  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:51pm

      Obviously you’re ignornbt of your own religion. the pope[who i agree completely in his support of social democracies as oppossed to greedy hypercapitalist regimes] has not declared this an infallable position. so for you to leave the church cause you disagree sounds like you don’t recognize the supernatural-divinely created mystery of the catholic church. it‘s not a club nort is it’s allegence to any nation state including the US,.Perhaps you have replaced right wing capitalis nationalism as your primary value and Christianity is really just a foil for which you attack those you hate[muslims]. make up your mind who your master is God- or the world [money,and your defense of calvinist hypercapitalism] None of which conforms to Christ and the Catholic Church!You’re very thin skinned in leaving the church that criticises your beloved economic [if you're rich you must be good]-system.

      Report Post »  
    • ParishionerUSA
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:07pm

      Satan will attack the Catholic Church from within and without always. Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior said that the gates of Hell would not prevail against her. I don’t have any idea how God is going to work, but I believe every word that Jesus said. I recommend reading Father Malachi Martin’s Windswept House for some insight into what exactly has infiltrated our Church. AND here is an article from Father Z, a good priest: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2011/10/the-new-white-paper-from-the-pont-council-justice-and-peace-fr-z-rants-like-loon/

      Report Post »  
  • Duckhead
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:58am

    Seems the Vatican is longing for a return to it’s glory days. At the worst it will set up the political authority for the anti-Christ, or it will signal the return of the Catholic Church to secular political power. Just watch all of the “seperation of church and state” libs fall all over each other trying to climb aboard this bandwagon. This is exactly what our founders warned against, but libs will support it-just watch.

    Report Post »  
  • john654
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:58am

    Hi,
    Here we go! Please, tell me why in the world would the Blaze post this MSNBC report with Fr. Thomas Reese here? He is an ultra liberal, social justice, nut case. He does not speak for the Catholic Church and is a member of a radical group “Voice of the Faithful”. Is this a hit piece on the Catholic Church to bring about controversy? This really blows me away, I have no idea why this crap is posted here! Other than the fact that the Catholic Church is always fair game. I just expect more fron Glen Becks web site! God Bless You, John

    Report Post »  
    • sta
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:10am

      OMG thank you John654!!!

      Report Post »  
    • paulppp2008
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:23am

      I totally agree with you. What is the Blaze’s motive in doing this? Come on people. Where is your brain? You can’t call the church a pedophile because the stories out there. Do you realize that is a very minimal percentage of priests?…I read something like 2%. What do you do with the other 98% of priests that are doing their job right? do we condemn them too?Do you realize that the protestant church has more pedophiles than the Catholic church? read it up…find out about it. I’m disappointed at some of the responses in this particular blog. I thought more of you guys. This guy does not represent the Pope (first of all) and you know that you are not getting the whole story in this article. So get your head out of your #@@$ – put your arrogance and righteousness aside – and figure out who are the good guys out there….

      Report Post »  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:30am

      I only had to see Geargetwon University and I knew it was a liberal skewing of what the pope actually said.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • JustMel71
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:37am

      Thank you John. I couldn’t agree more. The truth does seem to have an agenda at The Blaze sometimes. Causing controversy so early in the morning Billy??? Catholic are always fair game with non Catholics and atheist alike. God Bless you John.

      Report Post » JustMel71  
    • UBETHECHANGE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:01am

      Pope calls for a new world “financial” order http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6mVTDFwlPI&feature=share via @youtube

      Report Post »  
    • pamela kay
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:25am

      I think it was posted to make us aware of what is going on around us from every angle. I would rather know and have the opportuniy to figure things out myself. we don’t need surprises along the way. We need to prepare from every angle just as the progressives do so we know our enemies. ( for our own protection.) I have had other people say that their priest are sounding like progressives . If that is the case, we need to know.now. I am sure not all priests fall into this catagorey but it sounds like the progressives have their hands in the Catholic church .l Just as in most areas, even those we hold sacred. It is better to know now than later.

      Report Post » pamela kay  
    • HAPPYRWE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:09pm

      Please look up Pope John Paul Jan 2 2004 Message for the World Day of Peace……on the Vatican’s website….please tell me if this is not the official one, looks like the right one to me.

      In this message lots of Peace, Peace message then quickly turns to international law, UN and their role in governing morality etc.

      Please look up….Has the New Pope renounced these beliefs? Looks bad to me…..just want to know…

      Report Post » HAPPYRWE  
    • symphonic
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:07pm

      He’s still a CATHOLIC Priest.

      Report Post » symphonic  
    • monabrown
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:52pm

      Finally! Thank you JOHN654! This thread is just another opportunity to for people bash Catholicism and what they “think” they understad. But like G.K. Chesteron says, “Bringing an open mind to the Catholic Church is like bringing an iron to a magnate.”

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:04pm

      john654

      Thanks for the post. a lone voice crying out in the wilderness

      Jesus said: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

      hell will not prevail…keep the faith

      Report Post » by faith  
    • louise
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:59pm

      John654,
      My guess would be it is here because it fits in with the bigger picture, The bigger picture being the New World Order with one government, one bank, and one religion. …the counterfeit system, or state of being.
      I encourage everyone to pick up their bibles and read. Let the Spirit of the Word speak to you and teach you about the Truth of God
      There is only One God and One Church. One Faith, and One Word. One Truth, One Lord and Saviour.
      It is not about the religions of Catholicism Protestantism , Mormonism, Muhammadanism, or any of the other “isms”.
      It is about God and His Truth. And yes, God does speak to His children, and He does not need a pope, priest pastor or rabbi to do this, although there are times when He has used men to carry His message like the prophets of old.

      Isaiah 30:20,21~~ Although the Lord has given you bread of privation and water of oppression, HE, your TEACHER will no longer hide Himself, but your eyes will behold your Teacher.And your ears will HEAR a word behind you, saying “This is the way, walk ye in it,” whenever you turn to the right or to the left.”

      And then we have this wonderful Truth in Hebrews 1:1,2:~~ God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, IN THESE LAST DAYS has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

      Are we just now in “the last days”? No. The last days have been going on since the Word bec

      Report Post » louise  
    • louise
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:09pm

      Cont’d,
      The last days have been going on since the Word became flesh and dwelled amongst men.

      Report Post » louise  
  • Annie Fields
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:57am

    As a victim of priest abuse, having seen my parish priest in a “mug shot” on the front page of my paper a few years back, I regard the Vatican the way Glenn regards the unions. It’s not the rank & file, it’s the union BOSSES that are corrupt.

    That their evil is institutionalized and its tentacles now encircling the evil that is OWS surprises me, not.

    http://www.anniefields.com/blog

    Report Post » Annie Fields  
    • paulppp2008
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:33am

      There is no doubt that there is evil in the Catholic Church. The Pope and everyone knows it. There is that same evil in the world, in every other church, and in your house. Stop tearing down those who are trying to fix the problem and join them…for they need help. Everyone hates what happened to you; everyone is united to get rid of this problem and build a culture of love (John Paul II). It sounds however that you are not. Forgive and help us build the culture of love.

      Report Post »  
    • Beerbear
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:00am

      This pope and the old pope have been covering up abuse cases. They have made sure that the beasts among the priesthood would never be touched by the proper arm of the law. This pope has done absolutely NOTHING to fix the problems. He’s been adding to them. His bishops and cardinals welcome islamisation in Europe and they couldn’t do that without his approval.

      The vatican and the whole lot of power hungry buggers in it can go to hell for all I care. And again the vatican proves that organised religion exists only for one purpose: executing power over people.

      Report Post »  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:01pm

      What more do you want from them concerning the sex abuse scandals and coverups? it’s been exposed and they are making amends and changing their ways. They can’t control every person in their instituion-what do you want now? You want to make that the focus of your life –it’s ridiculous and inauthentic-it’s over ,it’s done you survived and the church has and continues to make amends. you want blood from a stone.Why?You’re a fanatic- be grateful you’re not in the position of a gaddafi-being murdered by a crowd!. get reall!

      Report Post »  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:55am

    Amazing, isn’t it, that we are alive to see this happening?

    I remember reading THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH when I was 26 years old and knowing deep inside that I would see the end of the world as we know it. Amazing that 41 years later, here we are. I just journaled this morning that the last 41 years have“flown” by and that off and on I would receive glimpses that we were in the process of entering these days.

    Do you all remember during the clinton presidency (arghhh!) a photo of slick willie with other world leaders and a caption that read, “A New World Order”? I kept that for years and may yet have it. When I saw it all those years ago I thought, “Uh-oh. Heads up!”

    “Let GOD be magnified!” Psalm 70:4

    Report Post »  
  • KatieSilverSpring
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:54am

    PLEASE don’t let a Jesuit, especially a Georgetown Jesuit, translate anything from the Vatican. The Jesuits are already in hot water with the Vatican as it is. To use any of their “translations” is a dangerous, erroneous route to take.

    Report Post »  
    • Lisabo
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:40am

      “Amen” to Katie!
      The writers at the Blaze have had to know this priest’s background…it is unavoidable if you do ANY kind of search on him. He is NOT a spokesman for the Catholic Church. He is a wolf in sheep’s clothing.
      I don’t see the Blaze using anti-Mormons to comment on the Mormon Church…

      Report Post »  
    • spreadthefaith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:01pm

      when The Blaze reports on a news story and misleads the readers,it makes me question there motives and they lose my respect. you can’t trust the media.

      Report Post »  
    • alwayscatholic
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:49pm

      Absolutely…If Mr Hallowell was a professional he would have taken more than the two minutes to google his “research” for his “story”. Pathetic…If you want to write about things Catholic do your HW…Reese is even on Wikipedia as having to resign because of his heterodox teachings in his rag “America”. He is a well known Progressive who is in constant defiance of Rome and frequents the lair of MSNBC frequently.. Funny thing, when I have seen him on the street in DC he is NEVER wearing his ROman collar..Only for the suckers on TV to mislead them that he ias actually a Catholic priest. Shame on the Blaze for dropping the ball again..
      More AntiCatholicism couched in a subtle way… Want to read the truth go to Father Zuhlsdorf’s blog, What does the Prayer really Say? http://bit.ly/ui1Xbv
      Read it and weep oh antiCatholic naysayers!

      Report Post »  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:53am

    Rapture, tribulation, Christ takes over. That’s what I understand.

    Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:06am

      The “rapture” is at the sound of the seventh trump…. not BEFORE and not after !

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:32am

      Tron

      There is no 7 year tribulation and it cannot be shown in God’s Word. The tribulation is now…It will only get worse. 

      @4Truth2All

      Alright 4Truth!!!! 

      Islam is the Woes….It’s aligning man. Keep spreading the word my friend. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Lisabo
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:47am

      The RAPTURE…really???
      Is a little depth of thought too much to ask from people?
      For your consideration…this deserves your time:
      http://barnhardt.biz/

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:52am

      Wouldn’t say that islam is the “woes” but it is gathering together to march against Israel.
      Lybia = Put… one of the nations that will seek to destroy the Jews.
      This movement has nothing to do with “freedom”. That is a lie and deception of satan.

      I’m sure you know these things….peace… bro!

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:07pm

      @4Truth2All

      I disagree, Islam has Israel, Dome of Rock, and has no need to march to Israel other then to stop Pope followers there from taking it back for the Pope. This last rise of Islam is it and all religion will be ushered under the Pope to ONE God. 

      Pope followers-AntiChrist
      Muslims-Anti-Christ
      Jews-Anti-Christ
      Protestants following catholic doctrine-Anti-Christ

      1st beast-Papal Rome
      2nd Beast USA (Popes military)
      Woes-Islam
      Image of Beast-Protestant Churches who turned back to Catholic doctrine
      Woman on a Beast=Woman is Church, Beast is nation. Ten Kings of Earth or Nation leaders. 

      Something to ponder. Stay safe bro! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:19pm

      Yo Lisabo:
      Glanced over your post. I have listened to her before. I like her, But I do not follow her. Yes REALLY, there is a “rapture’ as termed by men. Call it a calling up of God’s children at His return. The bible CLEARLY mentions this event. The disagreement is the timming of it. I stated the timming of it ACCORDING to God ‘s Word; nothing more.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:00pm

      Yo Okie’
      I would take issue…..islam has “part” of Jerusalem, they want it all. The leaders of islam have directly said as much. The dome of the rock is a in your face statement of satan, and an indicator of that faiths spirit. In the final days the saints are beheaded for their faith…. which religion does that!

      See: Ezekiel 38…Zechariah12-14

      I used to also think that the Catholic church was the “religious” leader that the anti-christ will team up with. Don’t think so at this time. Believe it will be islam and that is why islam is spreading throughout the world, and here in America. It is a violent take no prisoners faith as anti-bible as it gets. Ever notice how those that hate christians will side with muslims…. sorry Okie we just disagree on this one. If this keeps up I am going to have to send you my home course study at a reduced price of $69.99 and if you decide to order NOW I will take another $20.00 off. this means you get it all for an unbelievable $59.99. If your math doesn’t add up like mine I can also send you my 1 to infinity home math course also for …. are you ready for this!….an additional $100.00 that leaves a total of $1090.99 and that includes free shipping. Hurry, this offer will not last till Jesus returns.

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:36pm

      @4Truth2All

      Sorry friend but I believe you are wrong. Catholics actually were the first to behead and have done so more then any other religion (Foxes book of Martyars, Guilotine). Islam was started by Catholics thus they are identical in a lot of worship and beliefs. Islam had all of Israel as they were created to do but then would not give it up which led to crusades. Pope issued crusades for “holy” land. (what do followers of Christ need “holy” land for?)

      Physical Israel today was simply first to be a beachhead to fight back Islam by Britian and UN and slowly grew to be a pawn to unite Islam, Catholics, and Jews under ONE God thru the Pope under social justice. All surrounding Jerusalem today are anti-Christ. 

      Followers of Jesus Christ have no need for anything in Israel. There is nothing there for us to worship and it is not part of our salvation. The only reason followers of Jesus today think to be loyal to Israel is from Catholic influence that a believer must die for the “holy” land. It’s called manipulation. What does the “holy” land do for you going to heaven? Nothing……….

      If one understands Daniel 9:25-27 one knows Jesus left Israel desolate and over ran by Gentiles until the end and it has been that way since 70 AD as Christ said. 

      Enjoy your day my friend. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 1:44pm

      @4Truth2All

      Oh and if Islam really hated “Christians” in true definition why has the Vatican not been bombed or attacked by radical Muslims? Why has the Pope not been their target? 

      During Papal Rome any who did not worship as the Pope declared was beheaded, burnt at the stake, or tortured. The Church ran the state. Social Justice and ran by elites. 

      Islam is just an offshoot of that. Worship how your told or die. Church runs the State. Social Justice and ran by elites. 

      Remember what John Paul said, Muslims and Catholics worship the same ONE God…….They both pray to Mary as well…..Laters bro

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • HAPPYRWE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:28pm

      There is no such thing as the rapture………it is the gathering of Israel, harvesting the wheat from the tares, people who want to know God’s true will coming into the true church of Christ………no one is going to disappear into thin air…….???

      Report Post » HAPPYRWE  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:29pm

      Yo Okie:
      So does this mean your not going to place an order? I”ll give it to you for $10.99 but you have to pay the shipping which is $900.00 (it’s a lot of reading)

      There are a number of items that I take issue with… one being …we are called to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.
      “islam started by catholics” never heard that one before.

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 3:23pm

      @Happy

      You are wrong. 

      @4Truth2All

      Actually I have a guide to sale you before reading your guide. It’s only $5 (per page) and shipping is free! I’ll send your purchase to UPS for free and you can arrange pickup! :-) 

      Pray for peace is from what verse my friend? 

       @*******

      Good post. Ask any believer why they must defend Israel or what in Israel is needed to enter Heaven and they cannot tell you other then their Church tells them to. It is a falsehood passed down for generations since the crusades. There is nothing in Israel we are to worship or need to go to heaven. Many forget Satan isn’t coming in horns with a pitch fork. Satan is coming to deceive us as God and to worship him as God. Hope your day is good! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:41pm

      Okie,
      you have to be the funniest guy on these Catholic bashing sites.
      who writes your material? You write these convoluted conspiracy theories as if you are serious. My side hurts from laughing.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 4:51pm

      @Faith

      What is so funny? I read God’s Word and share it. Just like God’s Word shows Peter was never pope nor assigned Pope as you openly lie. 

      -Paul says their equal; 2 Corinthians 11:5
      -Paul censors Peter; Galatians 2:11-16
      -Peter is a pillar of Church, not the Pillar. Galatians 2:8-10
      -Peter was sent to preach by others; Acts 8
      -Peter did not preside the Council of Jerusalem; Acts 15
      -Peter refused to have Cornelius kneel to him; Acts 10:25-26
      -Peter professes he can’t forgive sin, like popes today; Acts 8:22
      -Peter says he’s a pastor or elder; I Peter 5: 1-3.

      ‘Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of DEVILS, speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to MARRY, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God bath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.’ I Tirnothy 4:1-3.

      When you want to be honest and talk God’s Word we can. Have a great day.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:14pm

      Peter’s Authority

      By: Fr. Dwight Longenecker
      When I was in the Bible doctrine class at Bob Jones University, one of the verses we had to memorize was Matthew 16:18: “I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

      A Catholic student might memorize this verse to prove his beliefs about the papacy. We learned it in order to deny Catholic beliefs about the papacy. It was explained that the rock in this verse was not Peter, but his profession of faith that Jesus Christ was the Son of God. Christ’s pun on the name “Peter-petros” was not a pun at all because petros meant little stone, so Jesus could not have intended the rock to be Peter because he was speaking of a foundation stone. Only many years later did I begin to reassess the teaching I had received about this famous and important verse.

      The Fundamentalists claimed that Catholics built the entire edifice of papal authority on this one verse taken out of context—a misuse of Scripture. An important doctrine, they said, should not be developed on one proof-text alone. In fact they are right, and as I began to study the Catholic faith more openly, I came to understand that the Catholic Church does not rely on this one verse alone to support papal claims but considers the whole verse in context.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:15pm

      In addition, instead of one proof-text, there are three important biblical images that come together to support the Catholic Church’s claims to papal authority.

      The three images are rock, steward, and shepherd. These three images are found not just in one verse, but are rooted in the Old Testament and affirmed in the New. Like a strong, three-strand, braided rope, these three images of rock, steward, and shepherd provide a powerful interlocking and interdependent support for the authority Christ intended to leave with his Church on earth.

      God Is My Rock

      A word study of the Old Testament shows the importance of the rock as an image of foundational authority and strength. In Genesis 49:24 the patriarch Jacob, blessing his sons, says that Joseph’s arm is strong in battle because it is upheld by “the shepherd, the rock of Israel.” The shepherd and the rock are symbols of God’s care and support for his people.
      For Moses, the rock is a solid place to stand and a secure hiding place (Ex 33:21-22), and for the people of Israel, the rock is a miraculous source of refreshment and life (Ex 17:6). Throughout the book of Deuteronomy, the Lord is a rock who is perfect, who fathers his children, and who provides an abundant life for them (Dt 32:4,13,15,18).

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:17pm

      The great psalmist King David refers time and again to the Lord as his rock, his fortress, and his deliverer (2 Sm 22:2; Ps 18, 19 et al). The psalmist praises God for he has lifted his feet from the miry clay and set them firm upon a rock (Ps 40:2). Throughout the Psalms the rock becomes a predominant image for the solid, secure, and trustworthy Lord of Israel.
      The prophet Isaiah echoes the psalmist, and for him too the Lord is the rock. Shelter is found in the shadow of a rock in a dry and thirsty land (Is 32:2), while God is likened to the “Rock eternal” (Is 26:4), and the Lord is the rock from which the people of Israel are hewn (Is 51:1). Habakkuk reaffirms that the Lord is the rock (Hb 1:12), and at the end of the Old Testament, the prophet Zechariah says that God will make Jerusalem an immoveable rock for all nations (Zec 12:3).
      In the Old Testament the powerful image of the rock repeatedly refers to God himself. In the New Testament, Paul unlocks the image of the rock and says clearly that the foundation stone is Jesus Christ himself (Rom 9:33, 1 Cor 10:4). The incarnate Christ is the manifestation of the rock who is God. He therefore has the authority to name someone who will share his rock-like status.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:18pm

      In the context of the whole Old Testament, Jesus the rock gives his teaching about the rock. Specifically, the important passage of Isaiah 51 describes God as the “rock from which [the people of Israel] are hewn,“ but they are told to ”look to Abraham your father and to Sarah who gave you birth.” Stephen Ray’s masterful work Upon This Rock piles up evidence showing that the Jewish teachers repeatedly referred to Abraham as the God-appointed foundation stone of the Jewish people. God was the ultimate rock, but Abraham was his earthly presence. Just as Abram was given a new name to indicate his new foundational status, so Jesus gives Simon a new name—Rock —to indicate his foundational status in the new covenant.

      The King’s Delegate

      The second strand in the braided rope of Petrine authority is the image of steward. The steward in a royal household appears throughout the Old Testament record. The patriarch Joseph works with a steward in the palace in Egypt. King Saul has a steward, as does the prince Mephibosheth, but the most important image of steward in the Old Testament for understanding Matthew 16 is in Isaiah 22.
      There the prophet foretells the fall of one royal steward and the succession of another. Shebna is being replaced by Eliakim, and the prophet says to the rejected Shebna, “I will clothe him with your robe and fasten your sash around him and hand your authority over to him. He will be a father to those who live in Jerusalem and to the house of

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:19pm

      . I will place on his shoulder the key to the house of David; what he opens no one can shut, and what he shuts no one can open” (Is 22:21-22).

      The true holder of the keys to the kingdom is the king himself, and in the Book of Revelation we see that the risen and glorified Christ holds the power of the keys—the power to bind and loose. John has a vision of Christ who says, “I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades” (Rv 1:18).

      So the king holds the keys of the kingdom, but he delegates his power to the steward, and the keys of the kingdom are the symbol of this delegated authority. The keys not only opened all the doors, but they provided access to the store houses and financial resources of the king. In addition, the keys of the kingdom were worn on a sash that was a ceremonial badge of office. The passage from Isaiah and the customs all reveal that the role of the royal steward was an office given by the king, and that it was a successive office—the keys being handed to the next steward as a sign of the continuing delegated authority of the king himself (See “A Successive Ministry,” above).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:20pm

      Isaiah 22 provides the Old Testament context that Jesus’ disciples would have understood completely as he quoted this particular passage in Matthew 16. When Jesus said to Peter, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven,” his disciples would recognize the passage from Isaiah. They would understand that not only was Jesus calling himself the King of his kingdom, but that he was appointing Peter as his royal steward. That John in Revelation sees the ascended and glorified Christ holding the eternal keys only confirms the intention of Jesus to delegate that power to Peter—the foundation stone of his Church.
      Catholic scholars are not alone in interpreting Matthew 16:17-19 as a direct quotation of Isaiah 22. Stephen Ray, in Upon This Rock, cites numerous Protestant biblical scholars who support this understanding and affirm that Jesus is delegating his authority over life and death, heaven and hell, to the founder of his Church on earth.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:20pm

      The Good Shepherd

      The third strand in the strong rope of scriptural support for papal authority is the image of the Good Shepherd. This powerful image is so abundant in the Old Testament that this short article cannot begin to recount all the references. Suffice it to say that the Hebrews were a nomadic-shepherd people, and the images of the lamb and the shepherd are woven in and through their story at every glance. From the beginning God himself is seen to be the shepherd of his people.
      In Genesis 48 the old man Jacob, before blessing his sons, says that the Lord God of his fathers has been his shepherd his whole life long. The prophet Micah sees the people of Israel as “sheep without a shepherd,” and the shepherd King David calls the Lord his shepherd (Ps 23 et al). The prophet Isaiah says that the sovereign Lord will “tend his flock like a shepherd: He gathers the lambs in his arms, and carries them close to his heart; he gently leads those that have young” (Is 40:11).
      The theme of the Lord being the Good Shepherd reaches its Old Testament climax in the Book of Ezekiel. Earlier, Jeremiah the prophet had raged against the corrupt leadership of the people of Israel. They were wicked and abusive shepherds, but in the Book of Ezekiel God himself promises to be the shepherd of his people Israel.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:21pm

      So the Lord says,
      As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness . . . I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice. (Ez 34:12,16)
      Finally, the Lord’s servant, the Son of David, will come and be the shepherd of the lost flock.
      I will save my flock, and they will no longer be plundered. I will judge between one sheep and another. I will place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. I the Lord will be their God, and my servant David will be prince among them. (Ez 34:22-24)
      One of the clearest signs, therefore, of Christ’s self-knowledge as the Son of God is when he calls himself the Good Shepherd. In story after story Jesus uses the image of the Good Shepherd to refer to his own ministry. He explicitly calls himself the Good Shepherd (Jn 10:11,14) who has come to the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Mt 15:24). He tells the story of the lost sheep, placing himself in the story as the divine Shepherd who fulfills Ezekiel’s prophecy (Lk 15). The author of the Letter to the Hebrews calls Christ the Great Shepherd of the Sheep (Heb 13:20). Peter calls Jesus the Shepherd and overseer of souls (1 Pt 2:25),

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:22pm

      ), and in the Book of Revelation, the Lamb on the throne is also the Shepherd of the lost souls (Rv 7:17).

      When Jesus Christ, after his Resurrection, then solemnly instructs Peter to “feed my lambs, watch over my sheep, feed my sheep” (Jn 21:15-17), the ramifications are enormous. Throughout the Old Testament, God himself is understood to be the Good Shepherd. He promises to come and be the shepherd of his people through his servant David. When Jesus Christ, the Son of David, fulfills this prophecy, God’s promise is kept. Then before Jesus returns to heaven, he commands Peter to take charge of his pastoral ministry. Now Peter will undertake the role of Good Shepherd in Christ’s place.

      The Vicar of Christ

      When I was an Anglican priest in England, I held the title of vicar of the parish. The term derives from the fact that the vicar is a priest appointed to do a job in the stead of the official parish priest. One priest might oversee various parishes, and so he appoints vicars to do the job when he can’t be there.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:23pm

      The Vicar of Christ

      When I was an Anglican priest in England, I held the title of vicar of the parish. The term derives from the fact that the vicar is a priest appointed to do a job in the stead of the official parish priest. One priest might oversee various parishes, and so he appoints vicars to do the job when he can’t be there.

      Many non-Catholic Christians object to the pope being called the Vicar of Christ. But the word vicar simply stands for one who vicariously stands in for another person. A vicar is someone to whom a job is delegated. The three strands of biblical imagery—rock, steward, and shepherd—show in three different ways that Jesus intended Peter to exercise his ministry and authority here on earth—in other words, to act as his vicar.
      The fact that there are three images is important because the authors of Scripture believed the number three to be one of the perfect numbers. A statement was most authoritative when it was expressed three times in three different ways.
      We see this in the passage in John 21. Jesus gives his pastoral authority to Peter with three solemn commands: “Feed my lambs, take care of my sheep, feed my sheep.” Here Jesus delegates his authority three times in three different ways, using imagery found throughout the Old Testament. In so doing he clearly reveals his delegation of authority to Peter.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:24pm

      History shows that from the earliest days Christians considered Peter to be the very rock, steward, and shepherd that Jesus proclaimed him to be. Furthermore, from the earliest days they considered his successor to be the Bishop of Rome, and that Bishop of Rome endures today as rock, steward, and shepherd—just a few hundred yards from the site of Peter’s death and burial.
      Does the Catholic Church build the claims to papal authority on one verse taken out of context? Hardly. The three strands of rock, steward, and shepherd are woven in and through the whole of Scripture, coming into focus in the life of Jesus Christ who is the true Rock, the King of the Kingdom and Good Shepherd, and who hands his authority on earth to Peter until he comes again.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:25pm

      SIDEBAR A Successive Ministry
      The non-Catholic protests, “There is no evidence that Peter’s ministry will be successive.” However, the whole context and meaning of the imagery from the beginning to the end show it to be a ministry that must be successive.
      First of all, the image of the rock is, by its very nature, a timeless and everlasting image. That’s why the image of the rock was chosen. That’s how rocks are. They’re there to stay. Then in Matthew 16 Jesus himself says that the steward’s ministry will have an eternal dimension. He holds the keys to the Kingdom of God and the gates of hell will never prevail against it. Finally, the image of the shepherd, as we have seen, is an eternal one because God himself is the ultimate Good Shepherd. If the rock, the steward, and the shepherd are eternal ministries, then for it to last that long, the ministry must be successive. How could this eternal ministry have died out with Peter himself and still have been eternal?

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:40pm

      @ By Faith

      So in summary you posted a whole bunch of opinion and nothing from God’s Word declaring Peter Pope!

      If God had named Peter Pope it wouldn’t be a mystery or some puzzle everyone has to try and figure out thru opinion. God’s Word clearly shows Peter was never Pope (above) and shows your faith is built on a lie as is much of the rest of it’s doctrine. 

      Please use scripture that says Peter is Pope. Thanks

      I will dissect your opinions now. Do not get mad when it is exposed for what it is. 

      It is sad your faith is that desperate to be first….Especially when my Shepard Jesus Christ said first comes in last, and last is first to your supposed “first” pope……..

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:42pm

      As Greek scholars—even non-Catholic ones—admit, the words petros and petra were synonyms in first century Greek. They meant “small stone” and “large rock” in some ancient Greek poetry, centuries before the time of Christ, but that distinction had disappeared from the language by the time Matthew’s Gospel was rendered in Greek. The difference in meaning can only be found in Attic Greek, but the New Testament was written in Koine Greek—an entirely different dialect. In Koine Greek, both petros and petra simply meant “rock.” If Jesus had wanted to call Simon a small stone, the Greek lithos would have been used.
      You have followed the training you’ve been given. You were told that a rare Catholic might have heard of Matthew 16:18 and might argue that it proved the establishment of the papacy. You knew what you were supposed to say to prove otherwise, and said it.
      I agree with you that we must get behind the English to the Greek. But I’m sure you’ll agree with me that we must get behind the Greek to the Aramaic. “The what?” The Aramaic, As you know, Aramaic was the language Jesus and the apostles and all the Jews in Palestine spoke. It was the common language of the place. Many, if not most of them, knew Greek, of course, because Greek was the lingua franca of the Mediterranean world.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:44pm

      . It was the language of culture and commerce; and most of the books of the New Testament were written in it, because they were written not just for Christians in Palestine but also for Christians in places such as Rome, Alexandria, and Antioch, places where Aramaic wasn’t the spoken language. I say most of the New Testament was written in Greek, but not all. Many hold that Matthew was written in Aramaic—we know this from records kept by Eusebius of Caesarea—but it was translated into Greek early on, perhaps by Matthew himself. In any case the Aramaic original is lost (as are all the originals of the New Testament books), so all we have today is the Greek.

      We know that Jesus spoke Aramaic because some of his words are preserved for us in the Gospels. Look at Matthew 27:46, where he says from the cross, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ That isn’t Greek; it’s Aramaic and it means, ‘My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?’
      And what does Kepha mean? It means a rock, the same as petra. (It doesn’t mean a little stone or a pebble. What Jesus said to Simon in Matthew 16:18 was this: ‘You are Kepha, and on this kepha I will build my Church.’ When you understand what the Aramaic says, you see that Jesus was equating Simon and the rock; he wasn’t contrasting them. We see this vividly in some modern English translations,

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:45pm

      which render the verse this way: ‘You are Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church.’ In French one word, pierre, has always been used both for Simon’s new name and for the rock.”
      “Wait a second,” he said. “If kepha means the same as petra, why don’t we read in the Greek, ‘You are Petra, and on this petra I will build my Church’? Why, for Simon’s new name, does Matthew use a Greek word, Petros, which means something quite different from petra?”
      “Because he had no choice,” I said. “Greek and Aramaic have different grammatical structures. In Aramaic you can use kepha in both places in Matthew 16:18. In Greek you encounter a problem arising from the fact that nouns take differing gender endings. You have masculine, feminine, and neuter nouns. The Greek word petra is feminine. You can use it in the second half of Matthew 16:18 without any trouble. But you can’t use it as Simon’s new name, because you can’t give a man a feminine name—at least back then you couldn’t. You have to change the ending of the noun to make it masculine. When you do that, you get Petros, which was an already-existing word meaning rock.
      Beyond the grammatical evidence, the structure of the narrative does not allow for a downplaying of Peter’s role in the Church. Look at the way Matthew 16:15-19 is structured. After Peter gives a confession about the identity of Jesus, the Lord does the same in return for Peter.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:46pm

      Jesus does not say, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are an insignificant pebble and on this rock I will build my Church. . . . I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven.” Jesus is giving Peter a three-fold blessing, including the gift of the keys to the kingdom, not undermining his authority. To say that Jesus is downplaying Peter flies in the face of the context. Jesus is installing Peter as a form of chief steward or prime minister under the King of Kings by giving him the keys to the kingdom. As can be seen in Isaiah 22:22, kings in the Old Testament appointed a chief steward to serve under them in a position of great authority to rule over the inhabitants of the kingdom. Jesus quotes almost verbatum from this passage in Isaiah, and so it is clear what he has in mind. He is raising Peter up as a father figure to the household of faith (Is. 22:21), to lead them and guide the flock (John 21:15-17). This authority of the prime minister under the king was passed on from one man to another down through the ages by the giving of the keys, which were worn on the shoulder as a sign of authority. Likewise, the authority of Peter has been passed down for 2000 years by means of the papacy.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:58pm

      You want me to find the word “Pope”? You do know Jesus only speaks english in the movies.
      find me the word Bible in the Bible. Find me a list of authorized books to be included in the Bible.
      No, you can’t use the table of contents. Find me the place in the Bible where Jesus says to the Apostles “write this down”.

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:00pm

      @BYFAITH… Your source is Fr. Dwight Longenecker. OKIE’s source is the Word of Yahweh. I will side with OKIE on this one. He has THE TRUTH (BIBLE)… You have the priests. Psalms 143:6 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:00pm

      @By Faith

      Are you finished copying a book? Once your finished I’ll debunk it. 

      How about using God’s book called the Bible? 

      None of what you posted debunked the 8 or so verses showing Peter was not a Pope. Good try though. Want to try again? 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:11pm

      “Do not get mad when it is exposed for what it is”

      That doesn’t sound arrogant at all

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:16pm

      so I give credit to Fr. Longenecker. It’s only right, this is his work.

      EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      do you not see several biblical references…you make me think your name is misleading

      Okie
      Come on don’t give up. you can do better than that

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:21pm

      EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:00pm
      @BYFAITH… Your source is Fr. Dwight Longenecker. OKIE’s source is the Word of Yahweh. I will side with OKIE on this one. He has THE TRUTH (BIBLE)… You have the priests. Psalms 143:6 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

      Cuz your not putting your trust in a man
      I didn’t realize Okie from Muskogee was that Okie from Muskogee

      Okie,
      your 8 or so verses speak to Peter’s humility….a subject you are not very well versed in

      your

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:23pm

      To be fair, Fr Logenecker’s quote stops at the sidebar.
      I wouldn‘t want to be accused of giving him credit for something he didn’t say

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:31pm

      Yo Okie:
      You buy mine first, and then I’ll have money to buy yours.

      Pray for peace of Jerusalem— Psalm 122 esp.verses 5&6
      also — Isaiah 62 esp. verses 6&7

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:37pm

      @Faith

      The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying: ‘See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.’ On the contrary, Jesus made the following positive declaration, which is diametrically opposed to Roman teaching: ‘But be ye not called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whosoever shalt exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.’ Matthew 23:8-12.

      Christ’s Vicar on Earth is the Holy Spirit not some pope

      ‘It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin… Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.’ John 16:7-13.

      Arrogant would be to think the Catholic Church has authority of God on Earth all allocated into one man. Now that’s arrogant. Are you saying the Pope today doesn’t have humility like Peter…..

      Enough said; have a great night! 

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:41pm

      @BYFAITH… I see all the verses that you referenced. The problem is that I don’t see the verse that says Peter was the first pope, or that he is OUR Rock. There is only ONE rock (Foundation) and that happens to be the Son of Yahweh, His name is Yahushua. It’s simple.

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 7:34pm

      @4Truth2All

      I will even thrown in my ocean front property I own here in OK… Thanks for the smiles man….

      Do you think those verses are geared for the end times? I do not. Either way Israel is not my issue and isn‘t yours either I don’t think, for it is irrelevant in our salvation right? 

      Always appreciate your thoughts my friend. Thanks for seeking truth with me. Enjoy your night! 

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:44pm

      Yo Okie:
      Whenever someone gives me a verse to “prove” there understanding I always read a few before and a few after to get the entire content. People (me included) mis-use verses. I gave you the entire chapters for this very reason. I do believe based on what they say without adding to or taking from that they do indeed speak to the “future” Jerusalem, especially Isaiah. I could break it down verse by verse… that would take alot of time I don’t have.

      No salvation does not depend apon it. I have some beliefs concerning this but you seem to want to move on and that is fine.

      I was counting my money till I looked at the map….. that’s cruel…my price just went up….. blessings in good old dried up ocean front OK

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:21pm

      @4Truth2All

      I’m always open to hearing your thoughts. Please share if you’d like. 

      I did read both Isaiah 62 and Psalms 122. I could be wrong but do not believe it’s in relation to after Christ Jerusalem especially since Jesus is said to make Jerusalem desolate and over ran with Gentiles until the end in Daniel 9. “Future” Jerusalem or New Jerusalem I could probably agree with if I studied up on it. I will tonight. 

      Also, Daniel 7 & 8 both characterize the anti-Christ and Islam does not fit it’s mold. 

      Your my friend 4Truth, always share your thoughts candidly with me. I always check back for replies. Appreciate you much! 

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    • nationalcalvin
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:47am

      @BYFAITH

      I don’t know, but the whole Pope thing doesn’t make alot of sense to me. You have a bunch of men voting on a man who is going to communicate with God for us. The whole system seems idiotic and ripe for corruption.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 9:08am

      Einstein the 2nd
      Now I KNOW you were named after Doc Browns dog and not the German theoretical physics. First you give me grief because I quote a priest all the while you are on a website which quotes an ex-priest and try’s to tie him to the Vatican. Then you and Okie come up with this gem of an answer. Were the 2 of you in the same special ed. class?
      Okie,
      That’s it? That’s your entire theological response? Thank you for that answer. You are definitely the funniest guy posting on this site.
      The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying: ‘See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.’ Seriously that’s your answer.
      No, Jesus didn’t say that…you got me. And nowhere in the Bible does He say write a bible, or read the bible, it doesn’t even say bible in the bible. (don’t worry I’ll get to your off topic, out of context reference in a minute)
      Jesus speaks in parables throughout the Bible, why? Why not just come out and say what OKIE and Einie want Him to say? In Luke 8:10, Jesus says that he speaks in parables so that “seeing they (the Pharisees and scribes) may not see and hearing they may not understand.” Why wouldn’t Jesus want them to look and see and to hear and understand? God did not withhold grace so that the Pharisees and scribes and you could not understand; they/you put up barriers to God’s grace and thus were

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 9:14am

      nationalcalvin
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:47am
      @BYFAITH
      I don’t know, but the whole Pope thing doesn’t make alot of sense to me. You have a bunch of men voting on a man who is going to communicate with God for us. The whole system seems idiotic and ripe for corruption.

      that is a valid point…however Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit to guide and protect His church and hell would not prevail against it. I trust in Jesus

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 9:25am

      “How do you refer to your mother’s husband? What do you call him?“ If a Catholic is wrong in calling his priest ”father,“ then everyone who refers to his own natural father as ”father” is also in the wrong. Both usages would be prohibited by a literal interpretation of Jesus’ words.

      Jesus came not to abolish but to fulfill the Law of the Old Covenant (Mt 5:17). If in Matthew 23:9 he literally forbids us even to acknowledge our natural fathers as our fathers, how can we keep the fourth commandment (“honor your father and your mother”)? Taken literally, Jesus’ words in Matthew 23:9 contradict his claim in Matthew 5:17, but we know that the Son of God never contradicts himself.

      Look again at the passage in which Jesus says we must call no one “father.” In contrast to the attitudes of the Pharisees and others, Jesus is specifying the qualities Christian leaders must exhibit (Mt 23:1-12). The Pharisees.aspired to being called “rabbi” (or “master” or “teacher”), leaders of schools of thought. Among the schools headed by teachers called “rabbi” there were divergences of belief, some of them in actual contradiction. A similar situation prevailed with regard to the term “father” (in Aramaic, abba, a title of honor). The title was given to well-known Jewish religious authorities of the past. As with “rabbi,“ so with ”father.” The term designated the progenitor of a particular, even contradictory, interpretation of the Jewish faith.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 9:26am

      Why did Jesus declare that no Christian leader is to be called “rabbi” or “father”? He was telling us that no leader may set up his own interpretation of the Catholic faith and seek followers for his opinions. The role of leaders in Christ‘s Church is faithfully to hand on Christ’s teaching received through the apostles (Mt 28:19). The words of the apostle Paul epitomize the essential attitude of the Christian teacher: “This is what I received from the Lord and in turn passed on to you” (1 Cor 11:23). Paul condemns in the church at Corinth “these slogans you have, like ‘I am for Paul,‘ ’I am for Apollos,‘ ’I am for Cephas’ (1 Cor 1:12).

      The history of Protestantism is essentially the story of this very process–the unending proliferation of sectarian groups, saying “I am for Martin Luther” or “I am for John Calvin” or “I am for John Wesley.” The World Christian Encyclopedia (David B. Barrett, ed.; Oxford, 1982) reported that in 1980 there were 20,780 distinguishable Christian denominations in the world. Moreover, at the time the encyclopedia was published, an average of 270 new denominations were springing up each year–more than five every week. If that rate has continued, then there are over 25,000 denominations today. Every single one of these competing, contradicting denominations was formed by some person who said, in effect, “Call me ‘Master,‘ call me ’Teacher’; I will tell you what the Christian truth is!”

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 9:27am

      Jesus foresaw this problem and provided the means for avoiding it. In the passage under discussion, he tells us, “you have only one teacher, the Christ.” And how are we to be taught by our one Teacher? By the means he provided. He founded the Church on the apostles and their successors, with a special role for Peter, the Rock, the earthly head of the Church. A Catholic knows that when the Church Christ founded speaks solemnly, Christ himself is speaking through her to each member.

      Every follower of Christ wants to know the truth, for “the truth [and only the truth] will make you free” (Jn 8:22). For acquiring that truth in its fullness, the Catholic Church established by Jesus Christ offers the only alternative to the chaos of ever-expanding denominationalism.

      Incidentally, both Old and New Testaments associate priesthood with fatherhood (cf. Jgs 17:10, 18:19, and 1 Cor 4:15), but in this case, Jesus’ command is not violated. Being a simple priest is in no way turning yourself into a guru and founding your own school of thought.

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 11:29am

      @BYFAITH
      I recall Peter rejecting Yahushua three times. And Yahushua referring to Peter as satan in verse 23 of Matthew 16. 23But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

      Why would Yahushua make Peter the foundation of the Church after he rejected him three times and referred to Peter as satan. The only ONE rock that is OUR foundation is the Son of our Father. You are twisting the Word of Yahweh.

      In 2 Peter 3:15 Peter says, And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

      16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

      Peter is deferring to Paul’s written wisdom in verse 15. And in verse 16 he warns how those who are unlearned and unstable wrest(twist) the scriptures unto your own destruction.

      You can twist the Word of Yahweh better than anybody I know. May Yahweh bless you with the truth.
      http://www.eliyah.com

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 11:58am

      Einie
      Again you point out something Jesus did or didn’t do to try to prove me wrong. Your problem is not with me, your problem is with a God who does not fit to you expectations.
      Peter was a man, the current Pope is a man. All men fall short of the kingdom of God. Peter denied knowing Jesus, Paul persecuted Christians. How does that prevent Jesus from choosing both to play a roll in His church? Moses was a murderer, David was a adulterer, Thomas doubted, Judas betrayed Him…yet all were chosen

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:10pm

      Yo ByFaith:
      I am going to take a chance here… you call yourself a “christian” yet as you “present” God’s Word your language has become angry and corse. I will not question your salvation, I do question the manner you present it.
      Concerning ~ “ Simon son of Jonah” in Matthew 16: 13-20… verse 18 “and I tell you that you are Peter, and on THIS rock I will build my church” … does it not seem odd to refer to a person as “this”.
      Also your position goes against other scripture. I have not read all of your posts but from what I have read you seem to me to be defending your church (catholic), and not the truth of God’s word. Maybe this is not your intent.
      I would first like to respond to the verses in Matthew that speak of the; “keys of the kingdom of heaven” in verse 19, I take it that you also believe this verse and these words are for Peter and him only and not for you and myself, along with others. Is this correct?

      Matthew 7 24-27… the wise and foolish builder… the wise build their house on ROCK, the foolish on sand.
      What is the ROCK = the words of Christ.. to hear and do = wisdom

      Romams 15:20… a clean slate makes easier teaching because the existing foundation (teaching) does not have to be torn away……………….. (cont.)

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:12pm

      The New Testament contains five different metaphors for the foundation of the Church (Matt. 16:18, 1 Cor. 3:11, Eph. 2:20, 1 Pet. 2:5–6, Rev. 21:14). One metaphor that has been disputed is Jesus Christ’s calling the apostle Peter “rock”: “You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18).

      Some have tried to argue that Jesus did not mean that his Church would be built on Peter but on something else.

      Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.

      These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: “You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church.”

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:13pm

      The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.

      Tatian the Syrian

      “Simon Cephas answered and said, ‘You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.’ Jesus answered and said unto him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon, son of Jonah: flesh and blood has not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say unto thee also, that you are Cephas, and on this rock will I build my Church; and the gates of hades shall not prevail against it” (The Diatesseron 23 [A.D. 170]).

      Tertullian

      “Was anything withheld from the knowledge of Peter, who is called ‘the rock on which the Church would be built’ [Matt. 16:18] with the power of ‘loosing and binding in heaven and on earth’ [Matt. 16:19]?” (Demurrer Against the Heretics 22 [A.D. 200]).

      “[T]he Lord said to Peter, ‘On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. . . . What kind of man are you, subverting and changing what was the manifest intent of the Lord when he conferred this personally upon Peter? Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys” (Modesty 21:9–10 [A.D. 220]).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:14pm

      The Letter of Clement to James

      “Be it known to you, my lord, that Simon [Peter], who, for the sake of the true faith, and the most sure foundation of his doctrine, was set apart to be the foundation of the Church, and for this end was by Jesus himself, with his truthful mouth, named Peter” (Letter of Clement to James 2 [A.D. 221]).

      The Clementine Homilies

      “[Simon Peter said to Simon Magus in Rome:] ‘For you now stand in direct opposition to me, who am a firm rock, the foundation of the Church’ [Matt. 16:18]” (Clementine Homilies 17:19 [A.D. 221]).

      Origen

      “Look at [Peter], the great foundation of the Church, that most solid of rocks, upon whom Christ built the Church [Matt. 16:18]. And what does our Lord say to him? ‘Oh you of little faith,’ he says, ‘why do you doubt?’ [Matt. 14:31]” (Homilies on Exodus 5:4 [A.D. 248]).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:16pm

      Cyprian of Carthage

      “The Lord says to Peter: ‘I say to you,’ he says, ‘that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not overcome it. And to you I will give the keys of the kingdom of heaven . . . ’ [Matt. 16:18–19]. On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. . . . If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).

      “There is one God and one Christ, and one Church, and one chair founded on Peter by the word of the Lord. It is not possible to set up another altar or for there to be another priesthood besides that one altar and that one priesthood. Whoever has gathered elsewhere is scattering” (Letters 43[40]:5 [A.D. 253]).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:19pm

      “There [John 6:68–69] speaks Peter, upon whom the Church would be built, teaching in the name of the Church and showing that even if a stubborn and proud multitude withdraws because it does not wish to obey, yet the Church does not withdraw from Christ. The people joined to the priest and the flock clinging to their shepherd are the Church. You ought to know, then, that the bishop is in the Church and the Church in the bishop, and if someone is not with the bishop, he is not in the Church. They vainly flatter themselves who creep up, not having peace with the priests of God, believing that they are
      secretly [i.e., invisibly] in communion with certain individuals. For the Church, which is one and Catholic, is not split nor divided, but it is indeed united and joined by the cement of priests who adhere one to another” (ibid., 66[69]:8).

      In case you don’t get it, these are early church fathers who lived during or shortly after the apostles. they were Catholic in there faith

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:19pm

      Firmilian

      “But what is his error . . . who does not remain on the foundation of the one Church which was founded upon the rock by Christ [Matt. 16:18], can be learned from this, which Christ said to Peter alone: ‘Whatever things you shall bind on earth shall be bound also in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth, they shall be loosed in heaven’ [Matt. 16:19]” (collected in Cyprian’s Letters74[75]:16 [A.D. 253]).

      “[Pope] Stephen [I] . . . boasts of the place of his episcopate, and contends that he holds the succession from Peter, on whom the foundations of the Church were laid [Matt. 16:18]. . . . [Pope] Stephen . . . announces that he holds by succession the throne of Peter” (ibid., 74[75]:17).

      Ephraim the Syrian

      “[Jesus said:] ‘Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples’” (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:28pm

      Optatus
      “You cannot deny that you are aware that in the city of Rome the episcopal chair was given first to Peter; the chair in which Peter sat, the same who was head—that is why he is also called Cephas [‘Rock’]—of all the apostles; the one chair in which unity is maintained by all” (The Schism of the Donatists 2:2 [A.D. 367]).

      Ambrose of Milan
      “[Christ] made answer: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church. . . . ’ Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church [Matt. 16:18]?” (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

      “It is to Peter that he says: ‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church’ [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church is, no death is there, but life eternal” (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).

      Now I have given you Scripture, and historical context. I have given you Greek and Aramaic translation and people who actually lived in the early days of the church.
      Those who have eyes will see.
      As for me, I believe all christians are called for heaven. I also believe if God so choses, he can take anyone He want to heaven. All faiths have some truth, however, the Catholic Church is the fullness of truth.

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:30pm

      All were chosen by our Father YAHWEH, not by man. The pope on the other hand is chosen by man. There has been a falling away from the TRUE foundation. It occured soon after Paul’s death.

      In Acts 20:27-29 Paul warns that soon after his death wolves would enter the flock, preaching against the True counsel of our Father. The wolves in sheeps clothing that preach the doctrine of Nicolaitans which Yahushua said he hates in Revelation 2:7. Catholics are and Protestants are the Nicolaitans. 20:27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

      28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

      29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 12:39pm

      Einstein,
      “There has been a falling away from the TRUE foundation. It occured soon after Paul’s death.”

      There was a true foundation and then a falling away?

      You calling Jesus a liar? “and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

      Report Post » by faith  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 1:02pm

      ByFaith… cont.

      I Cor. 3:10-11… Refers to Jesus Christ as the foundation (the Rock). Paul says due to the “grace God has given” and then refers to himself as an expert builder…. why?… because he teaches Christ as the foundation, the ROCK !

      Ephesians 2:19-22 … speaks of the foundation of the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the “chief cornerstone”. “In Him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord ”…..
      1 Peter 2:4-8… again ” The stone the BUILDERS rejected has become the capstone (or cornerstone)… again “A STONE that causes men to stumble and a ROCK that causes men to fall” *taken from; Isaiah 28:16

      As a self employed contractor this language, this teaching I “know ”.
      When laying a foundation everything that is going to be is determined by the cornerstone. The FIRST stone layed. If that stone is a quarter of an inch off square in the distance of 20 ft. ( block is 16″)… that would put the foudation off 4″…. that equates to the builder being sued.

      We (man) lost it all in the garden, Jesus did not come back to do that again. He did not put a man as the FIRST stone, the cornerstone…. no He Layed down HIMSELF as the cornerstone. Peter himself attests to this.
      ” The stone (ROCK) the BUILDERS rejected”……… the builders were the “experts” those that had the knowledge, those that should have known better, the “Leaders” of the church.
      I do not follow my church I follow Christ…

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 1:19pm

      Yo ByFaith:
      I have posted a continuation of my first post. I noticed that you have been busy posting also, very busy indeed. You use men to explain The Word. I use the Word to explain The Word. Did Jesus do this? Did Paul do this? Did Peter Do this?….. NO, they built on the foundation of CHRIST. They did not follow this person or that person as Paul warns us no to do. They followed CHRIST. Believe what your “expert builders” teach…..As for me and my house we follow the Lord, The Christ; as revealed to me as it was to Peter……. from the FATHER……nothing more to be said….. never do I want to remain where I am, for where I am is not where I want to go….. blessings

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 1:56pm

      Yo ByFaith:
      Your words ( posted 10-24 @ 5;17 pm … ” the incarnate Christ is the manifestation of the rock, who is God. He therefore has the authority to name someone who will SHARE His ROCK-LIKE status.”
      Jesus is not rock-like he IS the rock.
      The Lord does not SHARE His glory with anyone…. come on!

      Your words (Posted 10-25 12:28pm) “All faiths have some truth, however, the Catholic Church is the fullness of truth”.
      This is a statement of PRIDE (see my above post) and arrogance. I work with teenagers…. you sound like a gang member with gang mentality, no disrespect, just a fact.
      Pride blinds… God says He is far from the proud, God says He opposes the proud. God says we are to correct and rebuke and encourage. You have been corrected and you are unwilling to be humbled. You do the very things that the word says not to do because your pride blinds you. I will now encourage you… read your bible and let your bible explain itself… pray to the LORD for HIS truth not the truth of a/ your church… and be willing to be humbled

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 2:01pm

      “And if any one will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” (Matt. 10:5-15; see also Luke 10:1-12)

      I leave you in the hands of God

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 2:19pm

      @By Faith

      Howdy! I have a good friend on here who once told me it’s good to listen and not just speak. I gave you one solid verse from God’s Word while you posted 5-7 posts of some persons opinion. No, it is not all I have, but simply a beginning. The Word of God is all I need. Let us begin. 

      Simple question: was Pontifex Maximus the name used by the Pagan Roman Caesars while both Peter and Jesus were alive? 

      As for “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it” 
      Well, we can see by John Paul II‘s own admission in Mea Culpa that the gates of hell did prevail against the Catholic Church and is a direct contradiction of the verse used to declare the Church’s Authority. Sin as murder and torture would never infiltrate, PREVAIL, over Christ’s Church, especially it’s so called “leader the pope”. So by admitting the murder of millions for not bowing to the pope the Catholic Church proves the verse above was not in reference to them for the Church brought hell to many believer’s lives. 

      Papal Rome did not begin until 538 AD under Vigilious once Pagan Rome fell. Peter could have never been first Pope and there is no record of passing it on to anyone is God’s Word or in History. The Pagan Romans continued to use Pontifex Maximus until 538 AD when they fell. 

      The idea of a pope being a mediator is in direct contrast to this verse:

      1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 2:44pm

      @Faith

      If you notice Jesus gave the power to all the disciples, not just Peter as you quote two chapters before. Below Jesus is speaking to ALL the disciples…..

      Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. (Matthew 18:18-20 KJV)

      Notice here Jesus discourages one being “head” of Church. Does your Pope act as Jesus says to below? 

      And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest. And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors. But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve. Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me; That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:24-30 KJV)

      Hope you have a great day! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:04pm

      Did this “friend” also tell you to hide and wait until I sign off before you reply?
      You see my post saying I’m leaving and then you post…whose a sneeky little boy?

      Pontifex Maximus(Latin, literally: “greatest bridge-maker”) high priest of the College of Pontiffs
      has nothing to do with the Catholic Church he was part of the ancient Roman religion.

      It is not possible to give an exact year when the Catholic Church began to be called the “Roman Catholic Church,” but it is possible to approximate it. The term originates as an insult created by Anglicans who wished to refer to themselves as Catholic. They thus coined the term “Roman Catholic” to distinguish those in union with Rome from themselves and to create a sense in which they could refer to themselves as Catholics (by attempting to deprive actual Catholics to the right to the term).
      Even today many Protestants who have no idea what the origin of the term is cannot bring themselves to say “Catholic” without qualifying it or replacing it with an insult.

      See there was only the Catholic Church until some time around the mid-1,500′s
      There was no such thing as Roman Catholic church until then.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:04pm

      St. Ignatius of Antioch
      The second Bishop of Antioch, Syria, this disciple of the beloved Disciple John was consecrated Bishop around the year 69 by the Apostle Peter, the first Pope. A holy man who was deeply loved by the Christian faithful, he always made it his special care to defend “orthodoxy” (right teaching) and “orthopraxy” (right practice) among the early Christians.
      In 107, during the reign of the brutal Emperor Trajan, this holy Bishop was wrongfully sentenced to death because he refused to renounce the Christian faith. He was taken under guard to Rome where he was to be brutally devoured by wild beasts in a public spectacle.
      His letters connect us to the early Church and the unbroken, clear teaching of the Apostles which was given to them directly by Jesus Christ. He was dedicated to defending the true teaching handed down by the Apostles so that the brothers and sisters in the early Christian communities, and we who stand on their shoulders, would never be led astray by false teaching. He urged them to always listen to their Bishops because they were the successors of the Apostles.
      Ignatius is also responsible for the first known use of the Greek word katholikos (καθολικός), meaning “universal”, “complete” and “whole” to describe the church.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:07pm

      It is from the word katholikos that the word catholic comes. When Ignatius wrote the Letter to the Smyrnaeans in about the year 107 and used the word catholic, he used it as if it were a word already in use to describe the Church. This has led many scholars to conclude that the appellation Catholic Church with its ecclesial connotation may have been in use as early as the last quarter of the 1st century.

      and yes Jesus breathed on all the apostles so he also gave them power to bind and to loose. Peter was still singled out as the rock on which he would build his church.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:14pm

      Did you really just try to “post rape” me.
      You keep making me laugh

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:55pm

      @By Faith
      You think I hid? Ha! Who’s the funny gal now??? 
       

      Sorry you are wrong. The first Church began in Jerusalem, Acts 15, in which James presided over it, not Peter. 

      Yes all disciples received the same powers, not just Peter, and it shows how ignorant one must believe in order to think Jesus said he would build on Peter but give the same powers to all of them. 

      If the gates of hell should not prevail why did the Catholic Church kill so many? That would be hell prevailing against the Church. 

      Pontiff or Pontifex Maximus are the same thing. They were used by Pagans and then adopted by your Church as many other Pagan traditions were. Pontiff is the name of your pope. 

      “Post rape” you? Give me a break. Your babble is not that hard to see as babble. Quit priding yourself so highly to think one must “post rape” you. I’ve found chuckles myself that you avoid direct questions and resort to babble. 

      P.S. I will post more here shortly. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:57pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      I am not sure if you are at any point “conversing” with me. You have not addressed anything to me. If my posts are being ignored that is your choice.
      Concerning your post 10-25 2:01pm.. “if any one will not recieve you or listen to your words.”…….. You take a bible verse and use it to judge… God is not your puppet. I recieve and listen to the words of God, you are not speaking them. You are speaking the misgivings of men from your own pride. I chose to be a Berean.
      So, let me get this right…I disagree with you and you post a verse that infers I am going to hell. I encourage you and you condemn me.
      The power to heal is not just given to the apostles.
      I am glad God is my judge and not you……for truth…….blessings

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:19pm

      4truth2all
      interesting how you mind works. you say I‘m not talking to you and I’m ignoring you, but then you take personal offense to something I posted as a way to say I was leaving the site.
      I comdemd no one

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:22pm

      Don’t bother with the Pagan garbage. so the Catholic church reclaimed days that had pagan ties. Doesn’t prove anything. the Catholic church also reclaimed pagan souls, and jewish and gentile…

      The Fundamentalist objections notwithstanding, Scripture sanctions this practice. The Jewish Feast of Tabernacles was on the same day as a Canaanite vintage festival that it supplanted, much as Christmas coincided with the festival of Sol Invictus that non-Christians were celebrating. This is the same principle that Protestant churches use when they replace the celebration of Halloween with “Reformation Day” or “harvest festival” celebrations. It is an attempt to provide a wholesome alternative celebration to a popular but unwholesome one. Anti-Catholics who accuse Christmas of having “pagan origins” fail to recognize that it is precisely anti-pagan in origin.”

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:28pm

      @Faith

      We are all stones built upon the Rock of Christ. Peter understood this but yet your Church does not. What does Peter say? 

      To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. (1Peter 2:4-8 KJV)

      Remember, Nimrod made man bricks and God made man stones. Brick are all the same. Stones are all uniquely different. We are stones built on the Rock, Christ. Let’s see what else Peter says about Rock, the cornerstone. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:34pm

      Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel, If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole; Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4:8-12 KJV)

      Clearly Jesus is the cornerstone, the rock…..Peter says so himself….Who is the cornerstone to your Church, Peter or Jesus? You say Peter was the rock, cornerstone, yet Peter with the Holy Spirit says Jesus. I hope you set your pride to be first aside and listen to Peter that Jesus is the cornerstone. 

      Now for the verses that show Papal Rome as anti-Christ….

      FYI, I’ll post shortly. Don’t want you to scream “rape” again. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:37pm

      okie,
      How can you read the bible and not see Peter continually single out by Jesus?

      Just because you declare it so does not make it true
      babble? you have yet to give me anything that even remotly makes since.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 4:45pm

      For the record, I did not call Peter the rock, Jesus said he was the rock.
      your problem is with Jesus not me

      in the passage you give Peter is declaring himself under Christ, which we all must do

      so you want me to believe that Jesus wanted to build his church,( even you can’t misread that) but he left no one in charge…no human being, all the christians of the day were to just do their own thing until “poof” the bible pops up from no where and now we all can read and self determine what Jesus wanted.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:01pm

      I can save you alot of time, It PAGAN rome, not Papal rome in the book of revelations

      Report Post » by faith  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:06pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      In all due respect you have no idea how my mind works. You should read my words more carefully.
      I also did not take “personal” offense. I took offense in the way you were using Gods word. If I was not clear on that, my apologies. Now I am.

      Report Post »  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:10pm

      @Faith
      Did Yahushua want the fourth commandment (Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy) changed from Saturday to Sunday where there is no biblical authority? The Catholic Church is the fourth beast of the Book of Daniel chapter 7. The beast who changed times (calendar) and laws (sabbath).

      A DOCTRINAL CATECHISM; WHEREIN DIVERS POINTS OF CATHOLIC FAITH AND PRACTICE ASSAILED BY MODERN HERETICS ARE SUSTAINED BY AN APPEAL TO THE HOLY SCRIPTURES, THE TESTIMONY OF THE ANCIENT FATHERS, AND THE DICTATES OF REASON
      ON THE BASIS OF SCHEFFMACHER’S CATECHISM.
      BY  THE R E V.   S T E P H E N    K E E N A N.
      THIRD AMERICAN EDITION, REVISED AND CORRECTED, CONFORMABLY TO THE DECREES OF THE COUNCIL OF THE VATICAN
      [pg. 174]
      Q. Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?
      A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her;—she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.

      The Convert’s Catechism of Catholic Doctrine, by Rev. Peter Geiermann, C.SS.R., copyright 1910 by Joseph Gummersbach, published by B. Herder, St. Louis Mo., and Freiburg (Baden).
      pg. 50
      Q: Which is the Sabbath day?
      A: Saturday is the Sabbath day
      Q: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
      A: We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church (fo

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:12pm

      @Faith

      Jesus said he, Jesus, was the Rock yes. Look at the parable of the house built on sand or rock in Matthew. I have no issue with Jesus saying he, Jesus, was the rock. Your church does. 

      Peter was not the only one singled out. Read the whole Bible. 

      As for who leads the Church, do you not believe Jesus is the cornerstone, the leader of those building upon Him? The cornerstone determines how the rest of the building is built. The cornerstone leads, directs, determines the building. Christ is the leader of the Church and the Holy Spirit directs us to this truth. 

      1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

      ‘It is expedient for you that I go away, for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. And when He is come, He will reprove the world of sin… Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.’ John 16:7-13.

      Only a person practicing Paganism would defend practicing their ceremonies. The Bible clearly tells us numerous times not to worship God as Pagans. Again, you follow man and not God’s Word. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:14pm

      The catholic church in the council of Laodecia (AD 336) transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:19pm

      4truth2all
      If you would have read my words more carefully, we wouldn’t be having this convesation

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:20pm

      @Faith

      Correct, Peter speaking with the Holy Spirit is saying Jesus is the foundation, the cornerstone, the ROCK upon which all other living stones, believers, are built upon. You just debunked Peter being pope, leader, or chief. Jesus is and thru the Holy Spirit we share truth to further build upon Jesus. 

      You are wrong on Pagan Rome. I‘ll show God’s Word from Daniel 7-8 as well as Revelations showing just that. 

      It will be about 20 minutes or so. Gotta put up the horses. Don‘t want you thinking I’m doing a drive by or “rape” again. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:21pm

      einie
      do you worship on saturday? what religion are you?
      almost all christian religions worship on Sunday – ya know, cuz Jesus rose on Sunday
      and that’s not the only thing thats different from the OT to the NT

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:27pm

      Okie,
      Peter agnologing Jesus as his superior does not, prove he wasn’t the first Pope that is rediculous

      I can’t wait for you and your horses

      The Whore of Babylon
      In another tract, Hunting the Whore of Babylon, we looked at nine arguments given by fundamentalist Dave Hunt for his claim that the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon from Revelation 17–18. His arguments are typical of those used by fundamentalist anti-Catholics and are easily proven wrong.

      But we can go beyond a mere critique of the shallow anti-Catholic arguments like Hunt’s. There is irrefutable evidence in Revelation 17–18 (the chapters Fundamentalists love to quote againstthe Catholic Church) that proves that it is impossible for the Catholic Church to be the Whore.
      A Vision in the Wilderness
      When John introduces the Whore in Revelation 17, he tells us: “Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, ‘Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters, with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and with the wine of whose fornication the dwellers on earth have become drunk.’ And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of b.asphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:27pm

      The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and bedecked with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication; and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: ‘Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth’s abominations.’ And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. When I saw her I marveled greatly” (Rev. 17:1–6).
      This passage tells us several things about the Whore: (1) She is an international power, since she “sits on many waters,” representing different peoples (17:15), and she has committed fornication with “the kings of the earth,“ and she has inflamed ”the dwellers on earth” with her fornication. (2) She is connected with the seven-headed Beast from Revelation 13:1–10. That Beast was a major pagan empire, since its symbolism combined animal elements from four other major pagan empires (compare Rev. 13:1–2 with Dan. 7:1–8). (3) The Woman is connected with royalty, since she is dressed in the royal color purple. (4) The Woman is rich, for she is “bedecked with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup.” (5) She has committed some kind of fornication, which in Scripture is often a symbol of false religion—lack of fidelity to the God who created heaven and earth. (6) She is symbolically known as Babylon.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:28pm

      . (7) She is a central cause of “abominations” in the land, abominations being a reference to practices, especially religious practices, that are offensive to God. And (8) she persecutes Christians “the saints and . . . martyrs of Jesus.”
      While the rest of her description could refer to a number of things, the symbolic designation “Babylon” narrows it down to two: pagan Rome and apostate Jerusalem. It is well known that the early Church Fathers referred to pagan Rome as “Babylon”; however, there are also indications in Revelation that the Whore might be apostate Jerusalem. Historically, a number of commentators, both Protestant and Catholic, have adopted this interpretation.
      The Seven Heads
      Continuing in Revelation, the angel begins to explain to John the woman’s symbolism: “This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while” (Rev. 17:9–10).
      Fundamentalists argue that these seven mountains must be the seven hills of ancient Rome. However the Greek word here, horos, is almost always translated “mountain” in Scripture. Mountains are often symbols of kingdoms in Scripture (cf. Ps. 68:15; Dan. 2:35; Obad. 8–21; Amos 4:1, 6:1), which might be why the seven heads also symbolize seven kings. The mountains could stand for a series of seven kings, five of whom have alr

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:29pm

      This passage gives us a key rule of Bible interpretation which is often denied by Fundamentalists: A symbol does not have to refer to one and only one thing. Here Scripture itself tells us that the heads refer both to seven mountains and seven kings, meaning the symbol has multiple fulfillments. Thus there is not a one-to-one correspondence in the Bible between symbols and their referents.
      Also, the mountains could be a reference to pagan Rome, yet the Whore could still be a reference to apostate Jerusalem. In this case, her sitting on the Beast would not indicate a geographical location but an alliance between the two powers. The Whore (Jerusalem) would be allied with the Beast (Rome) in persecuting “the saints and . . . martyrs of Jesus.” (Note that the Whore also sits on many waters, which we are told are many peoples, [cf. 17:15]. The context makes it clear that here her “sitting” on something does not refer to a geographical location.)
      This passage gives us one reason why the Catholic Church cannot be the Whore. We are told that the heads “are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come.” If five of these kings had fallen in John’s day and one of them was still in existence, then the Whore must have existed in John’s day. Yet Christian Rome and Vatican City did not. However, pagan Rome did have a line of emperors, and the majority of commentators see this as the line of kings to which 17:10 refers.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:30pm

      . Five of these emperors are referred to as having already fallen, one as still reigning in John’s time, and another yet to come. Since Jerusalem had no such line of kings in the first century, this gives us evidence that the Beast (though not the Whore) is Rome.

      The Ten Horns
      The angel also interprets for John the meaning of the Beast’s ten horns: “And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast; they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful” (17:12–14).
      This shows us that the Beast is allied with ten lower rulers and with their own territories. Some Fundamentalists bent on making this apply to modern times and the Catholic Church have argued that the horns refer to the European Community (EC) and a revived Roman empire with the Catholic Church at its head. The problem is that there are ten kings, but there are now manymore than ten nations in the EC.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:30pm

      However, what we are told about the horns does fit one of the other candidates we have for the Whore—apostate Jerusalem. The angel tells John: “And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and giving over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled” (17:16–17).
      If the Whore is Jerusalem and the Beast is Rome (with the ten horns as vassal states), then the prophecy makes perfect sense. The alliance between the two in persecuting Christians broke down in A.D. 66–70, when Rome and its allied forces conquered Israel and then destroyed, sacked, and burned Jerusalem, just as Jesus prophesied (Luke 21:5–24).

      The Whore’s Authority
      Finally the angel tells John: “And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth” (17:18). This again points to pagan Rome or apostate Jerusalem. In the case of the former, the dominion would be political; in the case of the latter, it could be a number of things. It could be spiritual dominion in that Jerusalem held the religion of the true God. It could be a reference to the manipulation by certain Jews and Jewish leaders of gentiles into persecuting Christians.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:31pm

      It could even be political, since Jerusalem was the center of political power in Canaan and, under the authority of the Romans, it ruled a considerable amount of territory and less powerful peoples. On this thesis “the kings of the earth” would be “the kings of the land” (the Greek phrase can be translated either way). Such local rulers of the land of Canaan would naturally resent Jerusalem and wish to cooperate with the Romans in its destruction—just as history records they did. Local non-Jewish peoples were used by the Romans in the capture of Jerusalem.

      The hub of world commerce
      Continuing in chapter 18, John sees the destruction of the Whore, and a number of facts are revealed which also show that she cannot be the Catholic Church. For one, she is depicted as a major center of international trade and commerce. When it is destroyed in chapter 18, we read that “the merchants of the earth [or land] weep and mourn for her, since no one buys their cargo any more” (18:11) and “all shipmasters and seafaring men, sailors and all whose trade is on the sea . . . wept and mourned, crying out, ‘Alas, alas, for the great city, where all who had ships at sea grew rich by her wealth!’” (18:17–19).

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:32pm

      Pagan Rome was indeed the hub of world commerce in its day, supported by its maritime trading empire around the Mediterranean, but Christian Rome is not the hub of world commerce. After the Reformation, the economic center of power was located in Germany, Holland, England, and more recently, in the United States and Japan.

      Persecuting apostles and prophets
      When the Whore falls we read, “‘Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you’. . . . In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth” (18:20, 24). This shows that the Whore persecuted not just Christians, but apostles and prophets. Apostles existed only in the first century, since one of the requirements for being an apostle was seeing the risen Christ (1 Cor. 9:1). Prophets existed as a group only in the Old Testament and in the first century (Acts 11:27–28, 13:1, 15:32, 21:10).
      Since the Whore persecuted apostles and prophets, the Whore must have existed in the first century. This totally demolishes the claim that Christian Rome or Vatican City is the Whore. Rome was not a Christian city at that time, and Vatican City did not even exist, so neither of them could be the Whore. Furthermore, Fundamentalists continually (though wrongly) claim that Catholicism itself did not exist in the first century, meaning that based on their very own argument Catholicism could not be the Whore!

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:32pm

      Fundamentalists are fond of conjecturing that in the last days there will be a “revived Roman empire,” such as the one that persecuted Christians in the first century. Yet they never draw the inference that this empire would be headed by a revived pagan Rome, with the bishop of Rome leading the Christian underground, just as he did in the first century.
      Still, Revelation 18:20 and 18:24 prove that the Whore had to be a creature of the first century, which, in the Fundamentalist view, the Catholic Church was not. Thus, on their own view, their identification of the Catholic Church with the Whore is completely impossible! Only ancient, pagan Rome or apostate Jerusalem could possibly be the Whore.
      If Not the Whore, the Bride
      The fact that the Catholic Church is singled out by Fundamentalists as the Whore reveals that they intuit the fact it has an important role in God’s plan. No other church gets accused of being the Whore—only the Catholic Church. And it is understandable why: The Catholic Church is the largest Christian body, larger than all other Christian bodies put together, suggesting a prominent place in God’s plan. Fundamentalists assume, without objectively looking at the evidence, that the Catholic Church cannot be the Bride of Christ, so it must be the Whore of Babylon.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:33pm

      Yet the evidence for its true role is plain. The First Vatican Council taught that “the Church itself . . . because of its marvelous propagation, its exceptional holiness, and inexhaustible fruitfulness in all good works; because of its Catholic unity and invincible stability, is a very great and perpetual motive of credibility and an incontestable witness of its own divine mission” (On the Catholic Faith 3).
      So why is the Bride maligned as the Whore? Jesus himself answered the question: “If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more will they malign those of his household” (Matt. 10:25). “If the world hates you, know that it has hated me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world . . . the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you” (John 15:18–20).

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:35pm

      I do not have a “religion” I‘m a follower of Yahweh’s Word and the example HIS Son set on this earth.

      The fact that the angels told Mother Mary and Mary M. that HE has risen(past tense) does not mean HE rose before dawn Sunday morning. He could have risen Saturday evening. Even if HE did rise on Sunday. That does not justify changing a commandment which was written in stone by the finger of Yahweh. The Sabbath (Saturday) is a perpetual covenant with our Father and His Son as explained in Exodus. Why do you think the word “Remember” is in that commandment. Because our ALL KNOWING Father knew man would change it. May Yahweh bless you with the truth. Seek and you shall find. http://www.eliyah.com

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 5:39pm

      AD 51-125 – The New Testament books are written. AD 367 The earliest extant list of the books of the NT, in exactly the number and order in which we presently have them, is written by Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, in his Festal letter.
      AD 382 Council of Rome (whereby Pope Damasus started the ball rolling for the defining of a universal canon). Listed the New Testament books in their present number and order.
      So you want me to believe that the Catholic Church, the very organization who compiled, protected, preserved, published and declared canon the Holy Bible. Was so corrupt and overrun with devils and pagans that they created a false religion. That the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon. If this is true, then why not just exclude the book of revelations when they authorized the Bible? I mean why include a book that disproves your claims?
      Could it be that it was so far-fetched to think that any rational thinking human being would equate the Church Jesus created with the whore of Babylon? When the book of revelations was written, Vatican City did not exist. Most Christian/Catholics were still hiding in caves and underground. So they could not have had great riches. Most biblical scholars concede that the whore of Babylon was either ancient Rome or Jerusalem. Most likely Ancient/Pagan Rome.

      There, now I just saved you the trouble. I am beginning to bore of mundane conversation. So reply if you must but I won’t bother to read it
      Bye and God

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 6:22pm

      @Faith

      Poor Faith, patience is a virtue….It is hilarious you claim Peter as first pope but then reject what Peter says in the Bible that Jesus is the Rock! 

      Even though you are running off, or hiding as you claimed I did, I‘ll still post God’s Word showing who the Anti-Christ is. Seems you have adopted a poor attitude. I’ll say a prayer for you. 

      Daniel 7 keys
      It came up from within the 10 nations (v8)
      It arose after the 10 nations began (after 476ad) (v 24)
      It has a greater appearance than the 10 (v20)
      A man sits at its head (eyes like a man) (v8)
      It plucked up 3 nations: Heruli 493ad; Vandals 534ad and Ostrogoths in 538ad (v 21,25)
      It blasphemed against God speaking pompous words (v8,20,25)
      It will make war with the saints (v 21,25)
      Changes times and laws (v 25)
      Will reign 1260 years (7.25)

      Daniel 8 Keys
      Identity linked with Rome (v8,9)
      Exalts itself and opposes the daily sacrifice (v 10-12,25)
      Casts truth to ground successfully (v12)
      has fierce features and acts through cunning (v23,25)
      It’s power comes from an outer source (v24)
      destroys God’s people (duplicate of Dan 7) (v24)
      magnifies self in it’s heart (dup of Dan 7) (v25)
      Destroys fearfully… the mighty and many in prosperity (v24,25)
      It’s reign will end suddenly without human hand (v25)

      Continued

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 7:17pm

      @Faith

      Just want to ask or show you say the Whore of Babylon is Pagan Rome yet out the other side of your mouth you say that Pagan talk is garbage and it is ok to incorporate Paganism into your Church! You contradict yourself again! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 7:34pm

      @Faith

      Pagan Rome fell into ten nations and then who took power? 

      “It is, therefore, by a particular decree of Divine Providence that, at the fall of the Roman Empire and its partition into separate kingdoms, the Roman Pontiff, whom Christ made the head and center of his entire Church, acquired civil power.” − Pope Pius IX, Apostolic Letter  Catholica Ecclesia, March 26,1860.

      538 AD  Pope declared that runs the state. 
      1798 AD General Berthier under Napoleon entered  Rome and abolished Papal reign. (Head wound)

      538-1798= 1260 years

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 25, 2011 at 8:51pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      I have read your words; you believe the Catholic Church says that Peter is the rock, I believe that the bible says Christ is.
      I will err on the side of Christ. I have used Gods Word and that alone to show why I believe this to be true.
      That is why we have this conversation.
      It would also end if you agreed with me… nice try
      I will also now do what scripture says and “argue” no more. Believe what you will.

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    • Claire in Tucson
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:13am

      “By Faith”, you are a total badass and you are awesome. Thank you so much for the time to type all this out. It’s so refreshing to see that the Faith has some really informed defenders who have looked at it from all sides. Keep it up!

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 10:18am

      The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as “Adventists.”

      When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the “seventh-month movement,” who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

      When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

      Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse “the sanctuary” (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth.

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 11:28am

      @BYFAITH
      Umm… I’m not a Seventh Day Adventist. Just because I obey the fourth commandment, which Yahushua (Jesus) said he is the LORD of the Sabbath(Saturday worship), does not make me a Seventh Day Adventist. You can not but me in a “religion box”. Nice try though. The fact still remains that the Catholic Church admits to changing the day without scriptural authority. My authority is HIS WORD (Jesus’ Word). And he never authorized the change. PRIDE has caused the Church to think it has the authority to change something Yahweh set in stone. The commandments do not change, Jesus said Not one jot or title will pass from the law until all is fulfilled Matthew 5:17-21, Jesus said If you love me, obey MY commands. Sunday Sabbath is not HIS command. Have a blessed day!

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 12:18pm

      Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 6:37pm

      The Saviour never introduced Peter to the other disciples by saying: ‘See, I have appointed Peter as My successor; receive him as your Pope and head of the Church, call him Holy Father, honour and obey him.’

      The Saviour never said look in the book of Daniel and See there is proof the Catholic Church is evil

      Einie
      Not one jot or title will pass from the law until all is fulfilled…all was fulfilled in Jesus
      or do you still follow all 613 Mosaic laws (no you have no religiion, so you do what you want…Good Luck with that)
      And the Church used the authority given to Peter to worship on Sunday

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 12:34pm

      Claire in Tucson
      Thanks for your kind words and support. I’m glad to know my defense of the truth has reached you.
      God Bless you and keep you

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 12:44pm

      @BYFAITH
      ALL has not been fulfilled. If you read the verse it says heaven and earth shall not pass until ALL is fulfilled. Last time I checked heaven and earth are still here. Yahushua said HE did not come to destroy or abolish the law, HE came to fulfill (to obey, to do) the law. He is the example we should be following.

      Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
      Based on your logic of fullfillment, we no longer have to obey the commandments. I can steal, cheat on my wife, covet, not love my neighbor, observe Sabbath on Sunday, etc. Forget the 613 Mosaic Law. I’m talking about the TEN COMMANDMENTS. Which your Church has changed. That is the issue. Not my religion(I fellowship with others at http://www.eliyah.com). Once again, your authority is Peter and the Catholic Church. Which is much different than the Father and Son’s authority in scripture. Even your Church acknowledges there is no scriptural authority for the changing of the Sabbath. Where is your logic? Have a blessed day!

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 1:58pm

      Einie, Breaking all commandments, that was Luther’s thing.
      You posted Not one jot or title will pass from the law until all is fulfilled (if read, in context, you will see that is in reference to all Mosaic law)
      [A Pharisee lawyer] asked him a question, to test him. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.” (Matt. 22:34-40)
      In saying this, Jesus declared the breadth of the new law of his new covenant which brings to perfection the old law. He explained further to his disciples:
      “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 5:17-19)

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:10pm

      Let’s be clear, the apostolic authority passed down from Peter comes from Jesus
      As He intended for it to be

      your “authority” comes from scripture…not exactly
      your authority comes from your personal interpritation of scripture

      So let me weigh those two:
      on one hand Jesus picks peter to build his church, gives him the Keys and power to bind or loose….and then on the other hand you have the private revalations of a guy named after Doc Brown’s dog
      tough choice

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:22pm

      @FAITH
      Thanks for proving my point. You quoted Jesus’ Words in chapter 5 of Matthew…Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.

      The Catholic Church teaches men that it is okay to break commandments, according to Jesus’ words, the Catholic Church will be called LEAST in the KINGDOM. IDOLATRY AND SUNDAY SABBATH was not taught by Jesus.

      Jesus did not change the Ten Commandments to only two. He said ALL of the Law hangs on these two. The first four commandments are how we should show our love for our Father Yahweh. LOVE HIM BY NOT HAVING IDOLS, BY OBEYING THE SABBATH and BY NOT HAVING OTHER GODS BEFORE HIM. The other six commandments are how we should show how we love our neighbor, NOT STEALING, COVET, ADULTERY, ETC.

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:38pm

      Actually I allow the Bible to interpret itself. Working through its many contradictions due to language translations. You are following the interpretation of the Church.

      According to your beliefs, once Yahushua handed over HIS authority to a MAN(Peter), MAN did not stray from the truth, creating laws of their own. That same MAN was flawless in all his teachings, and that MAN passed on exactly what Yahushua intended. The bible teaches MAN is flawed, and to believe that the Catholic Church teaches no false doctrine is ARROGANT and PRIDEFUL.

      No need to continue this conversation. Your mind is seared with a hot iron, and not open to Yahweh’s biblical truths. Have a nice day! It was a nice dialogue. Even though you avoided most of my key points. http://www.eliyah.com

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:48pm

      I was real tempted to not respond and let you think you finally got one right, but no
      “I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.” He came to fulfill them, death and reserection are not enough for you? what more does he need to do?

      The Law has not been abolished, but rather man is invited to rediscover it in the person of his Master who is its perfect fulfillment The solemnity of our Lord’s opening pronouncements and his clear intention of inaugurating a new religious movement make it necessary for him to explain his position with regard to the [Old Testament law]. He has not come to abrogate but to bring it to perfection, i.e. to reveal the full intention of the divine legislator. The sense of this “fulfilling” . . . is the total expression of God’s will in the old order . . . Far from dying . . . the old moral order is to rise to a new life, infused with a new spirit.
      Old Testament law included many dietary regulations which were instituted as a preparation for his teaching on the moral law. Jesus discussed these laws:
      “Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him.”

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:52pm

      Christians are bound to the law of Christ which, of course, includes the natural law (murder, adultry…).

      Old Testament law contains elements of natural law to which Christians are bound for that reason, but not because of their inclusion in the Old Testament. Christians do not have liberty on these issues.

      Also, Christians are not and have never been bound by Old Testament law for its own sake, and those elements of Old Testament law which are not part of the natural law—e.g., the obligation to worship on Saturday —were only ever binding on the Jews. Christians do have liberty on those issues.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:57pm

      According to your beliefs, once Yahushua handed over HIS authority to a MAN(Peter), MAN did not stray from the truth, creating laws of their own. That same MAN was flawless in all his teachings, and that MAN passed on exactly what Yahushua intended. The bible teaches MAN is flawed, and to believe that the Catholic Church teaches no false doctrine is ARROGANT and PRIDEFUL.

      Again your problem is not with me, your problem is that Jesus does not fit into the box you want to put him in. jesus established his church through Peter and sent the Holy Spirit to guide and protect it. The gates of hell SHALL NOT prevail aginst it. So I Trust Jesus and his church
      you trust your own interpritation on scripture Again, good luck with that.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 5:06pm

      Now I know you are a joke. Now you are saying only 9 commandments need to be obeyed by ALL. While only 1 of the 10 commandments only needs to be obeyed by Jews.

      Natural Law? What is natural law? And where in the scriptures do you find an explanation of “Natural Laws”. The TEN COMMANDMENTS can not be divided. Paul speaks about in Hebrews 4 about how the sabbath still stands. Even after OUR Savior resurrected.
      Hebrews 4:2For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. 3For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
      4For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. 6Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: 7Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. 8For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day. 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 5:42pm

      Natural Law – Look it up. It’s not that complicated
      or maybe you can ask Doc Brown

      Maybe the combined IQ of your fellowship group can explain it to you

      Report Post » by faith  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 6:26pm

      It obvious you don’t have an answer to Hebrews 4. Therefore you need to resort to insults. You obviously do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within you. Yahushua would not use your tactics of belittling others.

      WE MUST WALK AS HE WALKED 1 John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked. Yahushua observed the Sabbath on Saturday, and we must do the same. You obviously believe the WORDS of JESUS have little meaning when HIS WORDS contradict your Catholic dogma! Be blessed!
      Yahweh’s Law (TEN COMMANDMENTS) > Natural Law (Choose which ever commandments you like)

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 6:41pm

      you call me a joke…you accuse me a false religion…
      all I did was say your name is the same as Doc Brown’s dog from Back to the Future
      and now you say I do not have the Holy Spirit in me? you need to lighten up your going to have a stroke if your that tightly wrapped

      Report Post » by faith  
    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 6:45pm

      Once again you avoid addressing a key point that I addressed in Hebrew 4. I see how you operate. You never address the key points. You don’t have an answer to Hebrew 4 so you just resort to insults.

      Its amazing how the Catholic Church uses the Bible to justify their dogma, but when it comes to controversial verses that discredit the Church dogma, it’s because Peter had the authority to change it. Yahweh does not change and neither does HIS commands. Malachi 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
      • “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).
      “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love” (John 15:10).
      “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments” (1 John 2:3).
      “And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it” (2 John 6).
      “Know ye not, brethren (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he lives? …Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good” (Romans 7:1, 12)

      Enough said!

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    • EINSTEIN THE 2ND
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 6:50pm

      I apologize. I initially did not want to post saying you did not have the Holy Spirit dwelling in you. When I realized I had called you a joke previously when I should have said you are joking. The post immediately after was my corrected response to the previous post I didn’t want to have entered into the conversation. I realized my error. Again I apologize.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 7:52pm

      Yo Einstein the 2nd:
      Now there‘s something I don’t see often… humility, and an apology… I commend you.
      Yo byfaith: you should try it.. it doesn’t hurt. You used a bible verse to condemn me (not that it did)
      and when I brought this to your attention you would not own up to it.
      IT’S ALL ABOUT JESUS, not Peter; and he’d be the first to say it. You don’t die upside down if not……..peace

      Report Post »  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:05am

      @Faith

      Actually you are wrong. Jesus did reference Daniel and the Abomination of Desolation to warn those believers who heard Him and His warning came true in 66 AD and in 70 AD. As for the Catholic Church part, if you were honest you would see all the contradictions between your teachings and Jesus Christ’s. I will follow Jesus, you follow your pope. I’m confident Jesus Christ and the Word are the way. Take care. 

      @Einstein 

      Very very very good job. Keep spreading truth and love, even to those not wanting to hear it. God’s commandments and Jesus Christ is the way. It is good to see more and more resort back to keeping God’s commandments and loving Jesus Christ. Keep spreading Truth! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:51am

      You read my words and think I am angry, I am not. I have said many times you make me laugh.
      You read my words and think I am condemning you, I am not.
      You feel the need to apologize for things you said, good.
      You accuse me of belonging to a false religion and following man, this means I am damned.
      But you mean no offense. (context matters)

      If you cannot be trusted to read my words and understand little ole me, then why would I trust anything you think you read in the Bible?

      Here is an example: The three of you should get together and combine your giant brains and I’m sure you will have the combined IQ of any 3 of the early church fathers who lived in the first century. Because they were Catholic, whom you claim are led by men yet they would claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.
      Did I just insult you? Or Did I just give you a complement?

      Good Luck with your current religious beliefs…I will defiantly keep mine.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:24am

      Einie,

      You keep saying I have ignored Hebrews 4. I have answered your comments about Hebrews 4, you did not like my answer. You know what they say about people who keep repeating untrue statements?

      I’ll answer again, but I’ll use different words. Maybe that will stop you from your false claims about me.
      No where in Heberws 4 does it say Saturday is the sabbath. It says the sabbath is the 7th day.
      The Jews put the sabbath on Saturday. Are we to accept all Jewish teachings, or just the ones that differ from Catholics? Be careful here, you know that whole Messiah thing.

      Jesus wanted to build his church…says so in the bible…and the people he left in charge wanted to commemorate the day he rose as the day to worship the Lord. This decision was made 2,000 years ago by the people who Jesus hand picked to form His church. If you don’t want to worship on Sunday, don‘t I couldn’t care less. But stop judging me because I do.

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 10:46am

      @Faith

      You are wrong about the Sabbath. The Jews did not put the Sabbath on Saturday, God did. The Apostles never changed it either, Pagans did.

      “Redemption is greater than creation; therefore, we ought to keep the day of Christ’s resurrection instead of the ancient Sabbath of the Lord.”

      Where has God said this?  It is no where to be found in God’s word.  What right then, has any man to make such an assertion and then to base the change of the Sabbath upon it?  God never required men to keep any day as a memorial of redemption.  But He did command us to keep holy the seventh day Sabbath as a memorial of creation thereby recognizing God as our Creator.
      If however, it were a duty to observe one day of the week for the above reason, most certainly the crucifixion day presents the strongest claims.  It is not said that we have redemption through Christ’s resurrection, but it is said that we have redemption through the shedding of His blood (see Revelation 5:9; Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Hebrews 9:12,15).  The wonder of the act of Jehovah in giving His beloved and only begotten Son to die for a race of rebels was a spectacle of redeeming love on which the universe might gaze in wonder throughout all eternity.  Who could wonder that the sun was veiled in darkness and that all nature trembled at the sight!  Friday, the crucifixion day, therefore, has far greater claims than the day of the resurrection; but God has not enjoined the observance of either.

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:04am

      If we would commemorate redemption, there is no necessity of robbing the Lord’s rest day of its holiness in order to do it.  For God has provided us with memorials for this event (see 1 Corinthians 11:23-26)

      “You read my words and think I am angry, I am not. I have said many times you make me laugh.”

      I do not care if you are angry or not. I will continue to speak Truth. If you enjoy laughing and mocking Truth, your choice. Implying insults does demonstrate anger. Mocking (laughter) is a sign of insecurity and anger. 

      “You read my words and think I am condemning you, I am not.”

      I do not care if you try to condemn or not for you hold no power over Truth nor do you have power to condemn. You are a human, not God. 

      “You feel the need to apologize for things you said, good.”

      Einstein didn’t want to offend so issued apology. That is setting pride aside. It seems you cannot set this pride aside, your choice. 

      “You accuse me of belonging to a false religion and following man, this means I am damned.
      But you mean no offense. (context matters)”

      Who is damning you besides the spirit of truth? We simply present truth and you recognize you are not standing with it. You then understand that you will be damned if you do not stand with truth. Your spirit damns you, not us. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:10am

      “If you cannot be trusted to read my words and understand little ole me, then why would I trust anything you think you read in the Bible?”

      We understand your deceptive words quite well. Deception is not of God. Learn to be honest, whether you are right or wrong. Pride is destroying you. That is truth. 

      “Here is an example: The three of you should get together and combine your giant brains and I’m sure you will have the combined IQ of any 3 of the early church fathers who lived in the first century. Because they were Catholic, whom you claim are led by men yet they would claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.
      Did I just insult you? Or Did I just give you a complement?”

      Was that sincere or you being a smart mouth? You also lied for the Peter, Paul, or any early Church leaders were not Catholic. They were followers of Jesus Christ. 

      “Good Luck with your current religious beliefs…I will defiantly keep mine.”

      Worship how you desire. We aren’t trying to stop you. We simply are sharing truth and you are trying to “defend” your beliefs against the Bible’s Words, not ours. Something to ponder. Good luck!

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 11:59am

      Okie rises back from his long slumber with a tirade of what he calls truth, look at you

      you can deny it all you want, but early christians were “katholikos” and they worshiped on Sunday
      Show me where “God said to worship of Saturday” please show me that.

      and while your at it, find for me in the Bible an explanation of the theory of sola Scriptura
      find me the word Bible in the Bible. Find me a list of authorized books to be included in the Bible.
      No, you can’t use the table of contents. Find me the place in the Bible where Jesus says to the Apostles “write this down”. Until you do that, don’t bother me with your questions and improvable theories about the Catholic Church

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    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:07pm

      and I wrote a simple sentence, thanks for proving my point with your response to it.

      It was only 50 or so words and you still don‘t know if it’s an insult or complement. The bible has more than 50 words….alot more.

      If you don’t care what I do, then why do you keep responding?

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:40pm

      Okie,
      You posted: We simply are sharing truth and you are trying to “defend” your beliefs against the Bible’s Words, not ours. Something to ponder

      I have pondered you statement, and you are correct,
      With one caviat. When you say We are simply sharing truth you should have said something more like We are sharing what WE THINK is the truth.
      And I am not defending my beliefs against the Bible’s words since I gave you biblical text to back up my beliefs. I am defending my faith against YOUR INTERPRETATION of the words of the Bible

      You keep saying I am wrong because I believe the words of man. Men who lived alongside and shortly after Jesus, but still men.

      But you believe a man’s interpretation of the Bible, that man happens to be you.

      I’ll take my chances with the old guys

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:51pm

      @By Faith

      Pagans worshipped on Sunday but the followers of Jesus Christ did not. Pagans and “katholiks” are the same. “katholiks” mixed paganism with the worship of God……..Know what you are if your going to have pride being it….

      Sabbath

      Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:8-11 KJV)

      Sunday=1
      Monday=2
      Tuesday=3
      Wednesday=4
      Thursday=5
      Friday=6
      SATURDAY=7

      Preaching is consider written and oral work. 
      “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15 KJV)”

      Sola Scripture

      2 Timothy 3:15-17, “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”  

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:54pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      I am not sure what to say at this point. I myself have only discussed the issue of Peter. I did something I don’t do much of here, and that is to quote and list scripture. I “try” to speak so that everything I say can be and is backed by God’s word. I know I sometimes fail. I laid out to you very simply what the bible says concerning the “rock”. I even mentioned that I “know” construction, which makes these verses even more insiteful to me personally. NO man in all his knowledge and learning or books written and quotes remembered can stand above that. Do not sit at the head of the table because you might be asked to move and be embrassed when another is asked to take your place. I do not sit at the head of the table nor do I bow to any other man. I try to respect all people and I am not concerned with my IQ, for IQ has NOTHING to do with knowing the Lord. I follow the trail of truth and try to sit where God says sit. I have sat at the heads of tables and I have not. I have been raised and I have been lowered. I pray God will give me more time to walk this trail.

      I have in nothing I have said accused you of not being a “BELIEVER”. I have only aluded to the fact that you “BELIEVE” in an incorrect teaching and in this teaching you have gotten off the trial, and all I have done is call out to you to help you get back on it. You yell back to me and others that you are fine, we have even come after you and you say leave me alone I know what I’m doing.

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 12:57pm

      1 Corinthians 4:6, “And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.”

      If the Bible is not the Word of God then why do you use it to proclaim authority of God thru Peter? Contradiction again….

      You seem to gain enjoyment from mocking and belittling the Bible. Why? Why belittle the Bible and then try to use the Bible for authority? Understand mocking the Word of God is mocking God. 

      Anything else you need help understanding just ask!

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 1:15pm

      I’m pretty sure I knew what you were implying. Compliments do not usually come in smart mouthed comments. It was not a simple sentence, again, you cannot be honest. 

      Are you saying you were complimenting us on our understanding of the Bible? Yes or no? 

      “If you don’t care what I do, then why do you keep responding?”
      It is impolite not to respond, besides, didn‘t you say up you wouldn’t be back and “bye”…….

      There is only one interpretation, truth. You provide a verse but then state it says something else. That is not truth. 

      Again, you belittle the Bible and then say you use the Bible…..

      We provide verse that back up the interpretation. God’s Word interprets itself, it isn’t mine.

      So you are defending an opinion against God’s Words interpretation of itself. 

      God’s Word interprets itself….It cannot be clearer than that….I cannot say that enough to you. God’s Word interprets itself. 

      The old guys, Peter, Stephen, Paul, Barnabas, all worshipped on the Sabbath, not the 1st day…God’s Word shows that. 

      Glad to help. Hope your day is great! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 2:03pm

      Yo Byfaith: (cont.)
      Is it possible that you are right…. I always give and contemplate this thought.
      Don’t think to highly of yourself and consider others first are verses that come to mind and I pray all the time for humility because I know how deceitful my heart is. I even wonder if our difference is determined by the Lord just to see how we treat one another when we disagree. The bible does say we are NOT to let this happen.
      You say that you did not condemn. (please see post 10/25 @2:01pm), however, you posted a verse that does just that. Which means YOU said it NOT God. You improperly used God’s Word. I have improperly used God’s word. Actually as I write you owe God the apology far more then anyone. You have made obvious prideful statements and they say that the person with pride is the last one to know it. Why did you post this verse ???????
      What did you mean when you asked if….“ did I just insult you or did I just pay you a complement”? I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW, cause I am not smart enough to figure it out. You also say “combine your giant brains” what is in your heart as you say this. Please don’t BS me becuase I have no money for it.
      You have presented yourself in arrogance and pride (your own words indicate this) and even if you would be right you do it wrong.
      If you DO NOT directly answer my simple question honestly then you can not do it to your benifit and your own answer or lack of will judge you…….. You have not been shy up to now… waiting..

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 2:27pm

      Okie
      I have to give you credit you do stick to your method. I give you biblical proof, historical proof, anicdotal proof and you refuse to accept it. yet you give me a bible quote taken out of context and put your (a man) spin on it and I’m suppose to accept that. you attempt to shoot down my explanations with logic you refuse to apply to your own explanations and then you use all sorts of mental gymnastics to get to your belief. That is hypocrisy. I already know your answer…“your the hypocrit” got it, so lets move on.

      What is the real reason you hate the Catholic church? Don‘t tell me it’s because of Peter or Mary or Pagans….for once the truth. How did she hurt you or your family? divorce, abortion, gay, a priest yelled at you, or was your parents the origin of your bigotry and hate?

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 2:43pm

      4truth
      When did I place myself at the head of the table? Was it when I decided to defend what I believe to be the truth of God’s Church against attack? You and Einstein injected yourself into this conversation between Okie and me. I did not call you out, you inserted yourself. I made a comment to you earlier about how your mind works and you proceeded to tell me I have no idea how your mind works. True. I just found it curious how you could at one line say I’m ignoring you and at the next you claim I slighted you in some way. But now you are able to accuse me of putting myself at the head of the table and prideful and arrogant.
      The sentence I wrote for you 3 was to prove a point. Which it apparently did. You don’t know what I meant by it. Okie, thinks he knows, because he can read my words and my heart at the same time. I assume Einie has moved on to other pursuits and God bless him with that.
      I specifically used the term IQ, because it is a modern day test. And one could assume people living in today’s world would be able to score higher on this type of test than someone who lived in the 1st or 2nd century. It’s not my answer that is important; it’s what you think that matters

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    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 2:52pm

      @Faith

      What “proof” have you presented other then a man’s opinion you copied out of a book? You have not. 

      I hate no one. Did you not write above the Whore of Babylon is Pagan Rome? Yes. 
      Did you not then write “pagan garbage” in defense of your church practicing Pagan belief? Yes. 

      You should then understand why I preach God’s Word and unfortunately for you and your church, you are on the wrong side of such truth. 

      You admitted your church keeps much of the whore of Babylon’s practice, Paganism, and then you wonder why those of us quoting God’s Word says totally opposite of your churches doctrine. You then come say we are “misinterpreting” it and use some man’s opinion, not God’s Word, to back it up. 

      So the question should be: why do you hate God and His Word so much? Why do you insist on following the Whore‘s Paganism and not God’s Word? 

      No one hates you or “katholics”, for sharing of Truth, God’s Word, is LOVE…..Hate, is rejection of LOVE…..Stop your hate and receive God’s Word.  

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:01pm

      @Faith

      “Here is an example: The three of you should get together and combine your giant brains and I’m sure you will have the combined IQ of any 3 of the early church fathers who lived in the first century. Because they were Catholic, whom you claim are led by men yet they would claim to be led by the Holy Spirit.
      Did I just insult you? Or Did I just give you a complement?”

      Straight answer: were you complimenting us 3 on how well we understand the Bible, Yes or No? 

      Don’t play games answer yes or no…. .

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:20pm

      Okie
      were you injured while horseback riding? What do you think you are talking about?
      am I not allowed to use the word Pagan now…is that your word?
      I said your pagan garbbage…do you see the word your.

      Again if you can’t read what I write then how am I suppose to trust that you are right about the bible
      No hate, read your own words.

      You didn’t answer my question…I guest you didn’t have a bible verse to twist into your explanation.
      God calls all men to Himself does he not?
      Jesus said go therefore and preach the Good News?

      Yet you are all over this website on several different threads declaring your interpretation of the Catholic Church. Why can’t you just focus on what we share in common instead of trying to tear us apart. I have to admit, you don’t make me laugh anymore. My heart is moved with pity at your lack of love for your fellow christian. You say you are Christian, to my knowledge you have not given your denomination. your religious beliefs are kinda all over the map, so I’m guessing Non-Denom.
      you attempt to point out every flaw of the church, yet you have no church. That Bible you have created into an idol is a collection of manuscripts that came to you through the Catholic Church. You are the man you follow. Jesus is knocking at your door and you will not answer, because you have your nose burried in the bible. Now you have 2 choices. you can read this with your jaded, biast eye, or honestly look at the words.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:31pm

      Okie
      Do you not read the post/resposes

      The sentence I wrote for you 3 was to prove a point. Which it apparently did. You don’t know what I meant by it. Okie, thinks he knows, because he can read my words and my heart at the same time. I assume Einie has moved on to other pursuits and God bless him with that.
      I specifically used the term IQ, because it is a modern day test. And one could assume people living in today’s world would be able to score higher on this type of test than someone who lived in the 1st or 2nd century. It’s not my answer that is important; it’s what you think that matters

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:40pm

      @Faith

      Quit being a coward. You are running and that is what is sad. You know full well you are contradicting yourself on the Paganism and yet you lack the integrity to admit it. You expect us to believe you know God but yet can’t speak truth of what your own words meant? 

      “Your Pagan Garbage” was said to counter my showing the Pagan practices your church keeps. Thus you said “your pagan garbage” to refer it was incorrect. Then you say Whore of Babylon was Pagan Rome, the same Pagan practices your church keeps. You can’t explain that so you deflect. 

      If you ever properly read God’s Word, you would know your church is the Anti-Christ. Every leader of every denomination declared your Papal Church the Anti-Christ..Everyone….Would you like me to post the list? 

      Your church and my church share nothing in common. My church does not follow pagan practices. My church believes in the Bible alone. My church believes in God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. My church believes there is only one mediator between God and Man, Jesus Christ. We have nothing in common.

      Again you mock us who read the Bible, who follow the Bible, and you mock the Bible. You need not say anything further for all reading to see your heart. For if you read the Bible you would know it says you speak what is in your heart. You mocking the Bible clearly shows your heart mocks it and God as well…….And a believer of Christ does neither…..

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:42pm

      Yo By faith:
      I was in the conversation prior to you.
      It is an open forum and anyone can engage.. I do try to stay out of a conversation between one that is established. In fact I did not get involved in the other issues you discussed. If you felt I butted in, my apologies.. you could have politely stated so, and I would have left…. you did not.
      I said that I try to speak truth…. the words concerning the sitting at the table are in the bible and I only offered them to you to think about. I say “you’ in that context, but I did not mean that specific. If I was not clear on this, again I apologize.
      NO it’s whatu say that matters… do you not know that the tongue has the power of life and death in them. People often mis-understand one another and this leads to problems, arguements and even somebody pulling a gun and shooting the other.
      I asked you some simple questions,TOunderstand… YOU HAVE NOT ANSWERED THEM directly.
      You spoke to things I did not ask, fine! I directly explained and apologized for any mis-givings on my part. I am still waiting for an honest answer… like I said no BS…I do not fight against you…..

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:43pm

      Okie
      you wrote: What “proof” have you presented other then a man’s opinion you copied out of a book?

      I absolutely LOVE that answer.
      Again you hold my answers to a standard you will not use for your own answers

      Look you were able to make me laugh again

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:48pm

      Okie, look I can put numbers next to days too
      Sunday=7
      Monday=1
      Tuesday=2
      Wednesday=3
      Thursday=4
      Friday=5
      SATURDAY=6

      Did you find that part where God says worship on SATURDAY yet?

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:49pm

      @Faith

      You cannot answer the question of whether you were complimenting us 3 for our knowledge on the Bible or not? 

      By not directly answering this direct question you answer it.  For surely if you were complimenting us with a “simple” sentence of 50 words or less you could answer Yes. 

      You were being a smart mouth not complimenting. 

      Not to speak, is to speak……Have a great day! 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 3:56pm

      Preaching is consider written and oral work.
      “And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15 KJV)” Sorry, BY YOUR RULES, where does Jesus say WRITE THIS DOWN

      OHHH Timothy

      1 Timothy 3:15
      “If I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

      did you miss it?
      THE CHURCH OF THE LIVING GOD, THE PILLAR AND BULWARK OF THE TRUTH

      so the non-existant church full of Pagans is who Paul sends us to? HUH who would have thought that.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:00pm

      @Faith

      Keep mocking God “faith”…..Keep mocking His Commandments….see where it gets you….

      You missed the point the Bible interprets the Bible….

      You forget the Word was with God before the world and God sent the Word Jesus Christ….Each time you mock God, the Word or those following it, you are demonstrating to us your church’s faith….You demonstrate exactly why your church is called Anti-Christ for only those Anti-Christ mock God, His Commandments, the Word, or His followers….Thank you for showing who you are….Have a wonderful day. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:04pm

      Why would Paul say that?
      You believe that the Bible is the pillar and foundation of the truth, and no knowledge outside of the Bible is necessary for our salvation. But then why does Saint Paul write that the Church, and not the Bible, is the pillar and foundation of the truth? This text refutes the Protestant theory of sola Scriptura (Scripture alone) which erroneously holds that the Bible is the sole source of Christian truth (a theory which cannot be found anywhere in the Scriptures). Instead, Saint Paul says the Church is the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
      This means that all the truth Jesus left us concerning faith, morality and our salvation flows from a living Church which, as we have learned, is built by Christ upon the rock of Peter and his successors. As the Catholic Church teaches, God has given us His truth in the form of the living word (written Scriptures and oral tradition) and the living teaching authority of the Church, endowed with the gift of binding and loosing. In fact, it is because the Church is the foundation of truth that we believe in the Bible. This is because the Catholic Church put the Bible together by determining which books were inspired and which books were not. The Church completed its selection of the “canon of Scripture” at the end of the fourth century. If the Catholic Church were not the pinnacle and bulwark of the truth, our belief in the Bible would be without foundation.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:09pm

      To By Faith

      Please shut up. You are making us Catholics look very stupid. Just shut up. 

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:14pm

      bul·wark   [bool-werk, -wawrk, buhl-] noun
      1.a wall of earth or other material built for defense; rampart.
      2.any protection against external danger, injury, or annoyance: The new dam was a bulwark against future floods.
      3.any person or thing giving strong support or encouragement in time of need, danger, or doubt: Religion was his bulwark.
      4.Usually, bulwarks. Nautical. a solid wall enclosing the perimeter of a weather or main deck for the protection of persons or objects on deck.

      pil·lar    [pil-er] noun
      1.an upright shaft or structure, of stone, brick, or other material, relatively slender in proportion to its height, and of any shape in section, used as a building support, or standing alone, as for a monument: Gothic pillars; a pillar to commemorate Columbus.
      2.a natural formation resembling such a construction: a pillar of rock; a pillar of smoke.
      3.any upright, supporting part; post: the pillar of a table.
      4.a person who is a chief supporter of a society, state, institution, etc.: a pillar of the community.
      5.Horology. any of several short parts for spacing and keeping in the proper relative positions two plates holding the bearings of a watch or clock movement.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:15pm

      That is odd because in the Bible, the Word, it says Peter was just one pillar…..The book of James…..You must of overlooked that. Oh well. 

      Again, continue to mock God, His Commandments, and His Word. You are only fulfilling Bible Prophecy. 

      I have nothing further to say to a person who cannot be honest about their own words. Go worship your pope, your “god” and I will follow the Bible, keep God’s commandments and love Jesus Christ. 

      Take care. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:24pm

      henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:09pm
      To By Faith

      Please shut up. You are making us Catholics look very stupid. Just shut up.

      You posted this and call me stupid?
      May 26, 2011 at 9:07pm

      Romney is Obama’s little brother
      Newt is Romney’s sister
      Cain carries Obama’s water
      West lives in the wild west

      If any of these win the Republican nomination, I will stay home or vote for Obama.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:27pm

      Point of clarification I was not mocking God’s word.

      I was mocking you

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:30pm

      Good for you Okie…now your getting it
      Peter was a Pillar , the Church was a Pillar, the church has many pillars

      or are the buildings in Oklahoma built on one pillar?

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:37pm

      HenryClay

      please elaborate, how am I making US Catholics look very stupid.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:37pm

      Are you ignoring me?………………

      Report Post »  
    • henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:40pm

      Faith
      you act stupid so you are stupid. You do not represent me as a Catholic. 

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:45pm

      4truth (I posted this an hour ago…don’t know what happened to it)
      When did I place myself at the head of the table? Was it when I decided to defend what I believe to be the truth of God’s Church against attack? You and Einstein injected yourself into this conversation between Okie and me. I did not call you out, you inserted yourself. I made a comment to you earlier about how your mind works and you proceeded to tell me I have no idea how your mind works. True. I just found it curious how you could at one line say I’m ignoring you and at the next you claim I slighted you in some way. But now you are able to accuse me of putting myself at the head of the table and prideful and arrogant.
      The sentence I wrote for you 3 was to prove a point. Which it apparently did. You don’t know what I meant by it. Okie, thinks he knows, because he can read my words and my heart at the same time. I assume Einie has moved on to other pursuits and God bless him with that.
      I specifically used the term IQ, because it is a modern day test. And one could assume people living in today’s world would be able to score higher on this type of test than someone who lived in the 1st or 2nd century. It’s not my answer that is important; it’s what you think that matters

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:48pm

      @Faith

      I have always said Peter was A pillar as the Book of James describes the pillars. You say Peter is the ONLY pillar. (See very first post of “Peter not Pope” and you’ll see just that.)

      The Bible is the only Word we need. Unlike your church that burnt and banned the Bible, mine keeps its every word. 

      And yes you mocked God, His Word, His commandments, and those who keep them. I have no need to speak to someone mocking God. 

      If you are mocking me then why would I continue a conversation with a Jester…..You just said you are a fool…..

      You worship your God and I will mine. They are not the same. Not at all. Take care. 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:48pm

      henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:40pm
      Faith
      you act stupid so you are stupid. You do not represent me as a Catholic.

      Good answer. why don’t you just call me a doody head
      How am I acting stupid? this should be easy for you to answer.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 4:58pm

      Okie,
      so you last post is a full of lies as your first. (NEVER said Peter was only pillar)

      Bible burning again you take out of context…Heretical false bibles were burned yes, what does that prove?

      Report Post » by faith  
    • henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 5:04pm

      Faith
      you must be too stupid to see how arrogant you come off. too stupid to see you sound as a jackass and a know everything *****. since you are my faith I won’t hold my tongue. 

      Knock it off. 

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 5:16pm

      First off I have been dealing with these people tor 2 days and if after that I come across as arragoant then thats just too bad. Okie lies about your church and you tell me I’m a jackass? are you suppose to be my father or something? Did I hold a gun to your head and make you read any of this? I really don’t care what you think. .
      You too sound arrogant. Knock it off or what? what are you going to do send me to my room

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 5:25pm

      I didn’t realize that YOU are the voice of the Catholic Church
      I appologize, I should have clear all my comment through you
      Next time I’ll send you and email at Sanctimonioushypocrite.com

      Report Post » by faith  
    • henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:15pm

      Faith 
      do not care what your excuse is for being a jerk, stop. I did realize that YOU are being a smug arrogant child who should have their mouth slapped for embarrassing the Church with your actions. smug little snotty nose brats as you demonstrated are an embarrassment to the faith and everything it does. go confess for being a jerk and for your mouth. no one held a gun to your head to post either so watch what you say and realize Catholics are one and you made us look like spoiled rotten brats. 

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:43pm

      Ok you sanctamonious a$$
      Good Catholics don’t vote for Obama.

      and whos going to slap me? is it you daddy? better bring a chair and a lunch
      I’m much bigger than I type…and 10 years of training should equip me with the necessary skills to defend myself against…..well you.
      So in short bite me you self apointed post policeman
      You think I need to go to confession you need to go pull your head out of your backside
      go vote for Obama…exemplory Catholic

      Report Post » by faith  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 7:53pm

      Yo Byfaith
      I posted to you 10/27 @ 2:03 I asked you direct questions
      you posted back @ 2:43 and did not answer those, but spoke of other.
      I posted back and I believe, answered and addressed your issues, and again asked for a response to my questions in post at 2:03
      You reposted @ 4:45 with same post as one @ 2:43 ( it went through) not sure how you do not see this.
      My questions are still not answered… I answered yours and even apologized where I thought necessary. I have no problem admitting when I am proven wrong and I don’t avoid it by running away… IF this is what you are doing…. again, I am not here to make enemies.

      Report Post »  
    • henryclay
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 8:24pm

      Faith

      you’d piss on yourself before you did anything that your lips flapping say they would do. that is the problem with you young little snot nose brats., you think you know everything and you run around half cocked. better be careful that mouth is going to get you into trouble. if you cannot listen to an elder you know nothing of the Faith. go confess for your mouth. shame on you because you once again embarrassed the Church. 

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:10pm

      4
      you are so needy, could you sound more like a 12 year old girl
      are you ignoring me, you didn’t answer my question
      your running away blah blah blah
      I don’t know if you noticed, but I was in the middle to 3 different conversations
      If I missed your question, stop whinning and resubmit it

      Report Post » by faith  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 10:11pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      Don’t need you, nor am I needy,in fact probably the opposite to a fault…. and IF you knew the first thing about me you would realize the COMPLETE stupidity of that statement. As for the rest of your post it shows exactly what I and others have said concerning your attitude, your arrogance, unchristlike manner and YOUR childishness. The question is on post 10/27 @ 2:03, I resubmitted the directions and order of those post also.

      Having said that: this needy, whining,12 year old girl could care less about your answer and since you so big and bad I better go cause a 12 year old girl got no chance … say googbye!

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 10:13pm

      say goodbye…. sorry, 12 year olds can’t spell to well either.

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 8:56am

      Henryclay
      Your first post to me included no introduction of who you are or what your involvement in this matter would be, just insults and accusations. I look at your last 10 post and see you say you would vote for Obama. I reply to your post and ask for specifics to back up your accusations and point out good that Catholics don’t vote for someone like Obama. Your response, no specifics, just more insults and this time a threat of physical violence. In my return post to you, I explain I have no need to fear you; I am capable of taking care of myself. Still more insults
      Does that glass house you live in have any mirrors?
      And please tell me how you plan to carry out your threat.
      How do you slap someone over the internet?
      Is it Ctrl+Alt+#
      You say I’m arrogant. Let’s not argue that, you have a right to your opinion. My arrogance comes comes with information on the Catholic faith, yours comes with no valuable information, just insults and empty threats.
      I don‘t think I’ll take your advise on how to be Cathloic, I don’t want to be what you think is Catholic.
      Now feel free to hurl more insults and go vote for Obama. Your such a good Cathloic

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 9:20am

      4thruth
      Don’t storm off and pout.
      I’ve already answered your questions (half of it twice). Your accusation of me running away and hiding are baseless. I have stood alone against the 3 of you who think I am damned because I belong to a false church. I have provided Bible verses, and backed them up with historical data from people who actually lived in the 1st and 2nd century. I even provided this information in Greek and Aramaic. None of it was accepted. You and your cohorts have provided me with bible verses that take all sorts of mental gymnastics to see what you want them to see.
      The verse you are so offended by (and stop saying you’re not offended, you’ve brought it up to many times to say that)
      “And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet as you leave that house or town. Truly, I say to you, it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town.” (Matt. 10:5-15; see also Luke 10:1-12)
      I leave you in the hands of God
      As I said before, I was trying to sign off from this post thread. I did not say this is directed to you or anyone else. I have no power nor did claim any power. You read it that way. Which again proves my point. If you can’t be trusted to read my words in context, then how can I believe anything you say you read in the Bible.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 1:39pm

      These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Timothy 3:14-15 KJV)

      Faith if you read the verse in context, which you have shown you do not and accuse us of not doing, Paul is saying he wrote this letter so in case he is delayed they may know how to behave..The whole letter is instructions on how this Church WAS to behave if it were to be a Church of the living God, the pillar of truth…You just proved the point you have no idea what you are talking about…..Nothing else needs to be said now!!!!

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 7:42pm

      It says the church is. Not will be or shall be

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 7:56pm

      Sorry post malfunction
      Paul says the church is the pillar.
      He does not say the bible is the pillar
      So the church was present at the time
      Paul was a member and he did not credit the bible
      As having value. Because it did not yet exists
      The church had not approved it yet

      Report Post » by faith  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 9:52pm

      @Faith

      Who was the “Church” getting its instruction from? PAUL AND HIS LETTERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Paul is a Pillar….So his teachings are what? A PILLAR!!!!! 

      What are pillars built on? A FOUNDATION (ROCK) JESUS……

      The pillars, Peter, James, Paul, etc teachings make up the Bible which builds the CHURCH(es) and instructs how to behave…..Ephesus (Church) was one pillar of Seven at the time…….

      You again show Peter was not pope but simply one leg built on the foundation of Jesus to make the Church! 

      You cannot read. Above you asked for “sola scriptura” and I gave this verse showing it:

      2 Timothy 3:15-17, “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:  That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”

      Notice it is 2 Timothy…not 1 Timothy…You demonstrate you cannot read so why would anyone trust your judgement on determining God’s Word! 

      Get it now????? 

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • Okie from Muskogee
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 10:16pm

      @FAITH
      Pride is destroying you and blinding you. Leave the whole “my church is the church” junk. Read it from the bottom up starting with Jesus. 

      Believers of Jesus Christ that keep God’s commandments! 
      Church (Pillar of the House of God) [Creates a body that follows Jesus]
      Apostles (Pillars who spoke/wrote thru Holy Spirt) [Creates the Church]
      Jesus (Foundation ROCK) [Created Apostles/Pillars]

      P.S. The Bible is made up of the pillars teachings, oral and written…….when you learn to swallow your pride Jesus will show you truth and you will leave your pagan ways… My last post on this thread. I hope even thru a difficult conversation you see I was simply sharing love and truth with you. You mentioned “damning” several times. Only the Father, Son and Spirit damns. Maybe the spirit is speaking to you. Listen to it….Take care….

      Report Post » Okie from Muskogee  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 28, 2011 at 11:48pm

      Yo Byfaith:
      I posted to you on 10/27 @3:42, in that post I apologized twice for my part. I did post again half joking that I was still waiting, that post was @ 4:37, you respond back with your post @ 9:12 in a rude arrogant manner, after I apologize to you. And then you post back and instead of apologizing you make another bonehead statement about me running off and pouting. Dude, there isn‘t nothing you can do that I can’t take, I just chose not to “hang around” people that act like you. I question your salvation not in judgement but by your attitude. Christ says we are to be kind, gentle in spirit and peace makers….try a little of it.. the size and strength of your physic does not make a man. God says He is not interested in the strength of the horses legs.
      I never said anything about you being damed, nor did I use any verses that spoke to it. Prove otherwise and I will man up. I spoke to your pride and your lack of apology is indicative again of it. I do not say these things to condemn, I say them for you to look to yourself… to help.
      In my posts where I explained the “ROCK” on 10/25 @ 12:10,1:02 AND 1:19, it’s one plus one math. There is nothing to take out of context, and they complement /explain one another… there is no gymnastics meet here.
      I am running out of characters..it is late. I worked 14hrs and need to get up early. I will finish tomorrow. If you cannot reply without an attitude…don’t bother.. I WILL NOT respond… say what you will.

      Report Post »  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 29, 2011 at 12:43am

      4truth
      I retread your posts and if those were apologize, then here’s mine

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:31am

      your hate defines you. you tell me the words that are there in the bible are not there. they really mean something else and only your interpretation is valid.

      Fact:
      the Catholic Church was formed by Jesus Christ with Peter and the Apostles. Peter was chosen as the head of the Apstles. That church still exist today and will continue. You choose to believe the lies and hate. that is on you.
      You come on the Blaze and attack Catholics and the Catholic Church. No one is attacking you or your church. No one is asking you to change you beliefs. If you don’t post hate you will not get negative responses.
      Because to be honest, no one cares what you think. No one cares what I think.
      I challange you to be positive and only focus on what we as believers in Christ have in common.

      Report Post » by faith  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 31, 2011 at 9:33am

      4truth
      that last post was for Okie, not intended for you

      Report Post » by faith  
  • GhostOfJefferson
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:52am

    It wouldn’t surprise me. Since Vatican II, the Catholic church has become a font of bizarro world progressivism. Many Traditional Catholics are quite upset with the direction of the Church since Vatican II actually.

    Report Post » GhostOfJefferson  
    • Charles
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:28am

      In Central America and elsewhere the catholic church repeatedly aligns itself with communists at their own peril. Its like some nonsensical suicidal insanity. Michael Savage calls liberalism a form of insanity. Making sense of it is an exercise in frustration.

      Report Post »  
    • rose-ellen
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 5:14pm

      Of course muslims, jews and christians worship the same God. Anyone who prays to the creator of mankind or the creator of the universe or the creator of the world-prays to the same God. Whether they know it or not because there is only one God. And historically islam is an offshoot of judaism [some scholars say it is unreformed primitive judaism] and incorporates christian beliefs too[in the holiness of Mary to the point they believe she appeared to egyptains in an apparrition in egypt]. Allah is the arabic word for God-no matter what you brainwashed anti-muslim genocidists say and the word allah is used in arab christian and arab jewish prayers and texts.

      Report Post »  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:33pm

      Rose Ellen…Your religion of Islam was created by the vatican via Mohamads wife and cousin Waraquah.. you Islamists do not worship the same God…you wanted your own God so the Pope and the Augustinian Monks created one for you so that your people could take Jerusalem for the Vatican City..He did raise up a mighty army in your people. But as for worshipping the same God? NO freakin way. You people are murderers, pedifiles. and blasphemers. You might try reading the Ten Commandments to see if we worship the same God ..Liars. fornicators., adulterers, idolators, homosexuals. nor thieves, nor covetous,nor revilers will inherit the kingdom of heaven…1 COR 6;9 So you see Rose Man …your people have no chance of entering because your Koran tells you it’s okay to lie to achieve your means. Your people are pedofiles….so liars pedofiles, homosexuals, and murderers they will not enter the kingdom of heaven unless they turn away..repent of their sins and take Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. I can assure you that Sharia Law is not the law of YWVH and His Son Jesus/Yeshuah..for in Him we are free because we live within the law. But that was set back in your ascendant Ishmael..for he was a wild donkey of a man with his hand against everyone and everyones hand against him GENESIS 11. You can be a part of the kingdom…but you are going to have to come to the one true God…and it is not ALLAH. Must get the your moniker from the George Soros funded Rose Revolution in Georgi

      Report Post »  
    • webpreacher
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 8:04pm

      @EINSTEIN, OKIE & 4TRUTH2ALL,, Oh what a breath of fresh air you all are. I also have been back and fourth with this “Mr. BY FAITH catholic” and its all in vain. He cannot understand the Scriptures for he is indoctrinated with man’s teachings, that being “Catholicism”. I have given him all the same Bible verses, passages of God’s Word which clearly refute ALL Catholic doctrine and do no avail. Clearly we need to pray for “Mr. BY FAITH” that he would came to the true faith of Christianity, which is Faith in Christ Jesus ALONE, and not of any ‘good works’.
      BY FAITH is yet a natural man, who has not been “Born Again” not spirit filled;

      1 Corinthians 2:14, “But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto : neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned”.

      Does this not describe “BY FAITH”, who is in this verse, the “natural man”?

      http://www.Jesus-is-Savior.com
      http://www.GodSaid/ManSaid.com

      Pray for Mr. By Faith

      Report Post » webpreacher  
    • by faith
      Posted on October 27, 2011 at 9:06am

      WEBDECEIVER/911 Truther
      again you post in the wrong thread…really showing off that big brain of yours.

      I really find it funny how you and your cohorts can judge me so clearly, yet we are not to judge.
      Jesus Christ is my Lord and He died for my sins. He paid my debt. You say that and you are saved.
      However, you do not afford me the same.

      The Pharisees were so sure they were right and Jesus was wrong. They tried to trick Jesus with questions about scripture. Jesus’ answers proved to be true, their presonal interpritation of scripture proved to be…well you know how that turned out

      Report Post » by faith  
  • kfalcon22000
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:51am

    Pope John Paul 2 would not be happy with the Vatican espousing the communism that he spent his life fighting against. Does Benedict know anything about history?

    Report Post »  
    • PATRIOTGRUNT
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 10:10am

      @KFALCON2200. I agree 100%. Being a Roman Catholic. I think that Paul II is turning over in his grave. He was staunch Anti Commie and was mostly responsiblle for its demise of Communism in Poland. Reese is an avowed anti Catholic anti celibate, pro Q___R . Now Benedict is a horse of a different color. His Pro Natzie views dourning WW II are well known. I have no idea why he is our Pope. I too am dismayed as to why this article is printed in the Blaze. Have’nt been here too long and have noticed that there have been several anti Catholic articels . If this continues I’ll go elswhere. Glenn needs to find another dog to kick around. Can you say Alex Jones..

      Report Post » PATRIOTGRUNT  
    • Kell Anderson
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:07am

      Considering who the source is on the info about this encyclical, I doubt it will be as bad as we think. Remember, Benedict was Carmelango under Pope John Paul the Great, and helped orchestrate much of the Catholic Church’s activities in support of Solidarity in Poland and against Communism across the world, including China and Vietnam. That said, if this is drifting as far from Natural Law as Fr. Reese is indicating, then it could cause a new schism.

      @PATRIOTGRUNT
      Pope Benedict is not now and never was pro-Nazi. He was forced into the Hitler Youth as a child because everyone in the country was. While at the Semminary, his objections to the National Socialist German Workers Party and their policies was such that he was excused from all Hitler Youth activities and membership, by a supporter of the Nazi Party. When he was drafted into the German Army, he deserted his Anti-Aircraft Artillery Battery and spent the last days of the war as a POW.

      Report Post »  
  • demint.disciple
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:49am

    Hmmm, Wonder when that guy put his cassock ? Before he got payed or after the interview .. This guy isn’t a priest.. Just because he puts on the clothing doesn’t mean he is a believer.. Besides OWS are atheists/agnostic aren’t they ? So I guess the Pope is an atheist according to this man.. The Tea party are mostly Christians, I would presume.. I would think that the Pope has more in common with the Tea Party

    Report Post » demint.disciple  
    • KatieSilverSpring
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:57am

      Demint,Disciple – I couldn’t agree with you more. A Jesuit has a long stretch to translating anything Vatican.

      Report Post »  
    • spreadthefaith
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:54am

      True..If you google Father Tom Reese he is a dissenter. Sadly,there are catholics who voted for Obama even though his ideology goes against many of catholic teachings.Judas betrayed Jesus why would we not expect a few priests etc to do the same.

      Report Post »  
    • HAPPYRWE
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 12:50pm

      In all sincerity I am asking Catholics on today‘s discussion to Google Pope John Paul Jan 2 2004 World Day of Peace Message and click on the Vatican’s website. Is this the official website of the Vatican?

      If you read through it/he clearly preaches pleads for peace but then turns quickly to the role of the United Nations………the Tea Party is against the United Nations, most Patriotic, Freedom loving Americans know the actual role of the UN.

      I have just found this and I don’t think it is a good thing, as a former Catholic I feel obligated to let my family know of the belief of any Pope that stands, has Benedict refuted this message?

      Please look up for yourself………?

      Report Post » HAPPYRWE  
    • Claire in Tucson
      Posted on October 26, 2011 at 2:30am

      Demint.Disciple, you are correct. I’m a little surprised (though not as surprised as I would like to be) that this article was posted without doing any research. I’m going to be charitable and assume there was no research, because the alternative is that the article was deliberately posted to misrepresent the Church.

      Happywre, there are a couple of things to understand about the Pope’s message on peace and the role of the UN. One is that the pope is not a politician, and does not tell countries what role they must take in any international affairs or organization. He may think the UN has a role in promoting peace. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it’s only natural for a religious leader to promote international cooperation. I think it may be a naive position, but if you take other comments he has made into consideration, he has criticized the UN’s position on population control, and other things. Every pope has reaffirmed the Church’s insistence on subsidiarity, or local control. Also, I plead with everyone to get a Catholic catechism, and look up prudential judgement. There are things where Catholics must listen to the pope (Catholic doctrine, which has never changed since the time of Christ) and areas where the pope’s opinion, while bearing consideration, is only his opinion, and not a part of the religion. Specific policy positions on economics, politics, and other secular matters, are not infallible. The only exception is abortion and euthanasia.

      Report Post »  
  • TRONINTHEMORNING
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:45am

    Yes, sir; GONZO; coudn’t agree more. Since a child, I‘ve always hoped I’d be around when the rapture occured. With this kind of stuff and if I don’t get hit by a bus; or shot by a rabid lib, I just may get that chance. Seems really close.

    Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:50am

      You must be a pre Trib guy. If the rapture is mid Trib or post Trib, you don’t want to be around for it.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • tradexpertbuysell
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:59am

      I didn’t know that the 10th commandment was no longer considered important (IE: Thou shalt not covet) or the 8th commandment (IE: Thou shalt not steal) was now considered obsolete by our Catholic leaders.

      So by advocating faux love we are now ushering in real hate for our more productive brothers and sisters (IE: neighbors)!? Nature abhors a vacuum and this is what happens when you ignore the most fundamental laws of human nature and trample in the process the God give rights of man (IE: Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Property)!

      Learn the Commandments, Know the Commandments, have them emblazoned on your heart and above all else fear the Lord!

      Report Post »  
    • jb.kibs
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:36am

      the 10 commandments are not multiple choice.
      the same goes for our Constitution.

      Report Post »  
  • UBETHECHANGE
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:45am

    “Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace calls for a new world economic order based on ethics and the ”achievement of a universal common good.” http://news.yahoo.com/vatican-urges-major-economic-reform-114943767.html

    They are a part of the NWO. John Hagee says the Anti-Christ is going to come from the old Roman Empire.

    Report Post »  
    • mike_trivisonno
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 9:06am

      The Church of the Anti-Christ was founded in Saudi Arabia 1,400 years ago by Mohammed and has been spreading ever since. The Second Coming has little to do with you and everything to do with those suffering under the deception of Allah. Salvation is for them, not us.

      Christendom as whole, and Catholicism in particular, have also been the victims of the Top-to-Bottom, Inside-Out method of attack. All manner of jihadis and communists infest the Church and Western Civilization as whole.

      Report Post » mike_trivisonno  
    • Lisabo
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:35am

      The RAPTURE…really???
      I thought Glenn Beck readers were “thinkers”.
      Is a little depth of thought too much to ask from people?
      For your consideration, it deserves your time:
      http://barnhardt.biz/

      Report Post »  
    • Lisabo
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 11:46am

      Do you realize that the “old Roman Empire” is not the Roman Catholic Church?!
      It is actually the old, Roman Empire. They are not one and the same. Not even close. It was the old Roman Empire (Nero) who martyred St. Peter and St. Paul.

      Report Post »  
    • blue suede
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 2:40pm

      John Hagee is a freemason isn’t he?

      Report Post »  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:39am

    “the creation of a global political authority to manage the economy”? Let me guess, we all need a mark on our hand or forehead to participate in this new world economy?

    Report Post » Gonzo  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on October 24, 2011 at 8:54am

      Make no mistake… this is not about the rich or the poor this is about a seperating out of the “TRUE” christians in the world. We will refuse to be part of this “fair and good” movement and it will cost us. We will be looked at as evil and evil will be looked at as good, and all the time the true christians are purposed to be fair and good. The enemy is cunning, and without the Spirit of Christ as there guide; they will be deceived.

      For as the Word says… if it was possible EVEN the ELECT would be deceived.

      Report Post »  
  • conservativewoman
    Posted on October 25, 2011 at 3:14am

    @FLORIDACRACKER
    You have been terribly misled by your Pastors to say such things. What did they tell you, that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon? Wow! Such hate. I would think about this if I were you.

    Report Post » conservativewoman  
  • JimL
    Posted on October 25, 2011 at 2:11pm

    Profession of Faith – something more?

    Report Post »  
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