Environment

‘It Is Clear the Science Is Not Settled’: 49 Employees Call Out NASA for Unsubstantiated Climate Science

Former NASA Scientists, Directors, Astronauts Send Letter Stating Climate Science Is Not Settled

NASA Administrator Charles Bolden

Just as Jim Hansen, the head of the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies, has recently likened man-made global warming to “a great moral issue” like “slavery,” a group of 49 former NASA scientists issued a letter to NASA Administrator Charles Bolton asking for the administration refrain from including “unproven and unsupported remarks” about climate science in its communications.

The letter, sent at the end of March, includes former scientists, astronauts and two former directors of NASA’s Johnson Space Center who believe climate science is “not settled” and wish for NASA to look at all available scientific data before making claims of carbon dioxide’s “catastrophic impact”.

Several blogs that do not consider man-made global warming a done deal, such as Watt’s Up With That, have recently picked up the story and posted the full letter.

Here’s it is:

March 28, 2012

The Honorable Charles Bolden, Jr.
NASA Administrator
NASA Headquarters
Washington, D.C. 20546-0001

Dear Charlie,

We, the undersigned, respectfully request that NASA and the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) refrain from including unproven remarks in public releases and websites. We believe the claims by NASA and GISS, that man-made carbon dioxide is having a catastrophic impact on global climate change are not substantiated, especially when considering thousands of years of empirical data. With hundreds of well-known climate scientists and tens of thousands of other scientists publicly declaring their disbelief in the catastrophic forecasts, coming particularly from the GISS leadership, it is clear that the science is NOT settled.

The unbridled advocacy of CO2 being the major cause of climate change is unbecoming of NASA’s history of making an objective assessment of all available scientific data prior to making decisions or public statements.

As former NASA employees, we feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate. We request that NASA refrain from including unproven and unsupported remarks in its future releases and websites on this subject. At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.

For additional information regarding the science behind our concern, we recommend that you contact Harrison Schmitt or Walter Cunningham, or others they can recommend to you.

Thank you for considering this request.

Sincerely,

(Attached signatures)

See a full list of the signatures here.

The Washington Examiner reported NASA not having a comment on the letter at this time. The Daily Caller reached out to signatory Walter Cunningham, who served as an Apollo 7 astronaut, who said many at NASA’s Alumni League’s Johnson Space Center Chapter in Houston are “not [...] really all that please with what’s happening at NASA.” The Daily Caller also reports geologist Leighton Steward, chairman of Plants Need CO2, as claiming he helped spur the letter into action after he spoke with the group a year ago about climate science at the agency.

As the former NASA employees state in the letter, this is not the first time scientists have spoken out against some climate science. One of the more recent occasions in January included 16 scientists sending a letter to the Wall Street Journal urging elected officials that “drastic action” against man-made climate change was unnecessary. These scientists were attempted to be discredited soon there-after by others in the field stating they were not experts in climate science.

Note: We’ll update this story if any statement from NASA becomes available. 

Comments (207)

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  • sooner12
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:00pm

    Let me get this straight: You are going to ask a black administrator hired by a no-count black president to essentially discount the existence of global warming!!!!!! to cease and desist claiming that officially there is an existence of global warming? Gooooooood luck. What an exercise of futility.

    Report Post »  
    • cemerius
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:27pm

      a point of record that will not stop the madness but it does draw a line in the sand ,,,,,,,

      Report Post » cemerius  
    • BlenGeck
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:40pm

      The “new nasa” is why the American people are not behind nasa and are not willing to demand funding for the obama commies. Give us the old NASA back and we will get behind the space program again.

      Report Post » BlenGeck  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:51pm

      And don’t forget to stop the new #1 duty of NASA… to promote how Muslims have helped in NASA Engineering and Space technology.

      (Turn your pop-up blocker on for the 1st link)
      http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/0714/NASA-chief-says-agency-s-goal-is-Muslim-outreach-forgets-to-mention-space

      http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2010/07/white-house-nasa-defend-comments-about-nasa-outreach-to-muslim-world-criticized-by-conservatives/

      (This one is a must watch video clip)
      http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/nasa-chief-obama-wanted-me-to-make-muslims-feel-good-about-their-history.html

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • USAMEDIC3008
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:33pm

      Je-haus in space
      MUSA

      Report Post » USAMEDIC3008  
    • IndyGuy
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:36pm

      Can you say “Hockey Stick”???

      Report Post » IndyGuy  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:40pm

      @SOONER12

      Please go away. Can’t you go manfully key swastikas into your neighbors paint jobs in the dead of night, or something?

      Isn’t there a White Supremacy meeting for which you are late? I‘m sure they’re holding up the whole group waiting for you to show up and begin the goose stepping.

      As an American, you have the God-given right to be as obnoxiously stupid as you like, but this is a public place. Please, just give it a rest.

      I was so excited, I just wanted to scroll down and post “YES!” But then I saw your douchery, right at the tip-top of the comments.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • johnbarlycorn
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:19am

      Sooner,
      With all due respect to the rank of the former General Bolden, he was a joke as a Marine officer and is more a joke as a senior administrator of the new Fascist State. A number of us spent a number of months as an advance force under his command in Kuwait during one of the many Clinton era possible formulas for a war diversion in Iraq. Likable, and approachable his charitable nature and humanity as a man are admirable As a warfighter, leader, or manager all that I served with would charitably described him as a terribly lost soul. Like Mr. Panetta, General/ Administrator Bolden is placed in a position of critical importance with devastating authority. Both are designed to perform as marinates for a puppeteer with turrets syndrome governed by a Marxist predisposition and with a diseased racist soul. People wonder why the country is head to a place that all know is down a path of despair, Charlie, is just another mile post on the highway of destruction. I wish Mr. Beck and his staff would begin a truthful and serious discussion. Oh, wait, that would require real risk in the real world……. Let’s do a series of special TV or radio spots announcing that I may go blind! No, that I have back pain! The limited good that Mr. Beck, much like General Bolden provide has passed the point of benefit; the disinformation and harm that they do to the truth may in the end be our end.

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:02am

      @johnbarlycorn
      Didn’t the old “John Barley Corn” Traffic song end in “John Barley Corn must die”? Sounds like you are committing a virtual suicide in name and words. Your rants seem a little weird but, considering your name… you are insane. Also, learn to spell your own name…. add an “e” in “barley”. : ) —0

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:07am

      @IndyGuy

      /
      /
      ______________________________/

      Like this?

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:11am

      @IndyGuy
      Well, it looked like a hockey stick until The Blaze re-arranged my post. : )

      Report Post » The-Monk  
    • britlynz
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:59am

      What’s race go to do with this story Sooner?

      Report Post »  
    • streetrodder
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 7:19am

      Exactly.

      Report Post »  
    • turkey13
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:24am

      Let me see – Trees need Carbon Dioxide to turn out oxygen! Then why is our Federal government paying my sons to bulldoze 500 acres of trees on my sons ranch?

      Report Post »  
    • Gasparri
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:35am

      woulden‘t it be aweful if women’s periods evolved into commas?

      Report Post » Gasparri  
    • forthepeople
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:59am

      JAYCEN : This is America where one is free to write what they feel and believe . You are confusing it with the backwards country you must be from ?

      Report Post » forthepeople  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:02am

      Look, if NASA wants government “cookies” (money) it’s going to have to roll over and beg.

      There “IS” no such thing as principled science any longer. And principled scientists are the dinosaurs of public policy of our time. Face it.

      Industry “IS” about profits. Profits rely on marketing. Marketing “IS” the art of making and selling snake oil. Building a new “industry” “IS” what “green” “IS” all about. Bigger profit potential exists in ‘budding’ industry than in stale old markets.

      Truth, honor, integrity just don’t exist in the “knowledge” industry any more.

      It has been supplanted, at both ends, elementary and post secondary education and application, by ideology.

      NASA has had it’s own ideology redirected by the president to BE AGW based to prop up the “new green industry.”

      You still have that old habit of trying be ‘honorable?’ seen as having integrity? I predict retirement for all of these gentlemen, this year.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • Rowgue
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:03pm

      Racist much?

      What does their being black have to do with anything? Whites or asians or space aliens with the same beliefs would be just as dangerous. Their ethnicity is irrelevant. It’s their ideology and their policies we should be concerned with.

      Report Post »  
    • IndyGuy
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:12pm

      @ The-Monk……….Nice try anyway…

      Report Post » IndyGuy  
    • ICEDRAGONNITE
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 8:23pm

      Had to be said. He didn’t say he would listen. But it certainly will be fun shoving it up where the sun don’t shine.

      Report Post » ICEDRAGONNITE  
    • ICEDRAGONNITE
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 8:27pm

      Another thing how many secrets are going to the enemy that we don’t know about? Where is the oversight Committee, that is supposed to check on these things? How many black boxes left this agency and were given to the King of Saudi Arabia? And what where they for? What can they do to harm the USA?

      Report Post » ICEDRAGONNITE  
  • pendentelite2
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:57pm

    Let’s just the math on “global warming”:

    On average, the sun contributes approximately 174,000 trillion watts to the earth’s atmosphere.
    On average, humans produce/consume approximately 13.5 trillion watts to the earth’s *surface*.

    Thus, the human contribution to the total wattage in the earth’s system at the surface with respect to the atmosphere (given a 100% transfer of surface wattage to the atmosphere [which is complete lunacy -- it is more like a >>0.1% transfer]) is 0.0077%.

    Really? 0.0077% (given absurd transfer ration of 100% surface to atmosphere) is causing global warming?

    Now, let’s look at another statistic: the active period of the sun (occurs every 11 years) occurs when CME’s (Coronal Mass Ejections) can increase the total wattage contributed to the earth’s atmosphere by an average of 0.02% to 0.7%!

    So, if man can cause global warming by contributing 0.0077% of wattage (again, using the lunatic 100% transfer assumption) to the earth’s atmosphere — what happens when the sun contributes an increase of 100 times as much?????

    Answer: the warming and cooling of the earth is caused by the active and inactive periods of the sun. Similar temperature variations recorded on earth are also recorded on the Moon, Mars, and Venus (and we know there are no cars consuming gas or coal fired generators on those celestial bodies) — because it is the massive energy furnace known as the SUN that causes variations in temperatures on earth.

    Report Post »  
    • Ethereal
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:15pm

      It won’t work. Common sense is one thing but without this fantasy of global warming people like Al Gore can’t make anymore $$ which he should be sharing with us because of the whole redistribution of wealth thing and dammit I got to get mine so lets just keep this quiet. Lol.

      Report Post » Ethereal  
    • nelbert
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:41pm

      Perhaps the most disturbing thing about the whole climate change issue has been the weird ferocity with which skeptics were attacked. Skepticism is a healthy scientific attitude. Recently, scientists were willing to consider evidence suggesting that something had been found that could go faster than the speed of light. Such a find would overturn a century of physics, but honest skepticism meant that one had to check the possibility (alas, the speed of light seems not to have been broken).
      The Earth has certainly gone through innumerable drastic variations in climate without the benefit of having man to blame for it. As noted, our understanding how our climate is connected to variations in solar output and to orbital variations is still in its infancy. And the now infamous hockey-stick model evokes as many questions as it purportedly solved. (The fact that its upturn occurred so near the onset of the Industrial Revolution was once a supporting point for climate change advocates, but one now knows – and should have known then – that there had to be a considerable lag time. The Industrial Revolution at its start was simply too geographically small to have such an impact).
      Long live skepticism.

      Report Post » nelbert  
    • SolInvictus
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:18pm

      Could you provide the variables for the rest of the equation?

      T=(Qin-Qout)/time * (1/A) * (x/k)

      Where T= Temperature of the Earth
      Qin = the energy into the Earth
      Qout = the energy out of the Earth
      A = the surface area
      x = the distance (in this case the atmosphere) that the heat has to travel
      k = the thermal conductivity

      You only provided the information for Qin which is utterly useless when trying to calculate changes in temperature. And seeing as the the entire debate is focused around the k portion of the equation, your math is completely useless without it.

      Report Post »  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:42pm

      Can’t we be excited that some note-worthy people finally got the guts to stand up and publicly decry the liars? You’re preaching to the choir on this web site. It’s clear to most at The Blaze that any warming is most likely a natural event.

      If your weather man can’t accurately predict the weather more than a few days out, some idiot theorist at Harvard can’t accurately predict it any farther out. That’s just so common sensical.

      I’m just thrilled these folks stood up to the stupid. God bless them!

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:09am

      @s
      It’s even more complicated than that. The idea of homeostasis has to play a part. The ability of the medium in which the heat is transferred through to transfer heat is important.

      Additionally, the heat capacity of water vs. ice vs. vegetation vs. etc… Now, you could argue that dEin vs dEout covers that via the conservation of energy. I would partially agree with that, but the assumption there is that the Earth is a closed system. Which it is not. That means that dEout isn’t fixed. The RATE can’t be fixed. Proponents would argue that trapped molecules in the upper strat create an Eout bottleneck and the rate of Eout is fixed (i.e. kout is constant). There are two problems with that assumption: 1) no long term data exists to account for that and 2) LeChatlier’s would imply that an increase in Ein will force Eout into the vacuum of E deficient space once homeostatic equilibrium has been sufficiently perturbed.

      Also, increased CO2 increases plant mass which also has at least 2 effects. First, increased plant and blue-green algae biomass increase respiration and evaporative cooling, and we don’t know the Ein/out contribution. Second, (and to be a little repetitive) the dCp of chlorophyll vs. dirt/sand/water isn’t included in calculations.

      I don’t even want to get into the cloud/statistical outlier removal/model design issues. The point I‘m trying to make here is that correlation doesn’t equal causation. IOW it’s not settled.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • lukerw
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 2:40am

      The EarthQuakes in Japan, 2011… are reported to have shifted the Poles by about 1.5 inches… and this slight deviation could account for New Weather Patterns!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • mauijonny
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 3:27am

      Scientific American gave an award to this study, showing that climate has changed drastically over the eons: http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

      Report Post » mauijonny  
    • 4xeverything
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 6:01am

      I wish people would stop confusing this climate change/global warming with science. I don’t blame these poor scientists for not wanting to be embarassed. I would be embarassed. In the 70s we were headed for a new ice age, in the 80s we were all responsible for rampant famine and rain shortages across the globe, in the 90s we were wipng out the whales at an unprecidented rate, and now there are no polar bears left because we are causing global warming with our toxic farts. Embarassing is only the tip of the quickly melting iceberg. All this boils down to is redistribution of wealth and the narcissistic self indulgence of the over fed left. You know, they are all Socialist Atheists now.

      Report Post » 4xeverything  
    • SgtB
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:39am

      @ 4xEverything, Yep, this last one about the polar bears bit them on the @55 when the Inuit started to issue more and more polar bear hunting permits because of a rise in their population. Oh, and don’t forget that polar bears are not even a distinct species. They are actually a sub-species and are completely capable of and do on occasion mate with brown bears to produce viable offspring that are also able to reproduce. Despite the color difference, they are the same species. Unless we want to start saying that animals from differing species can mate and produce viable offspring totally changing the meaning of species. But then we could start claiming that humans of varying skin color and body type are actually different species and I don’t think we want that.

      Report Post » SgtB  
    • GrayPanther
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:32am

      You make too much sense! This view has no place in the UN’s plan for removing western values and industry! After all, without an emotional fear, the unbelievable dribble for a one world government could not exist. Thank you for your obviously studied analysis.

      Report Post » GrayPanther  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:38am

      Invincible Sun God Worshiper a.k.a. Sol Invictus

      This is from CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research). Is that peered reviewed enough for you?

      Scientific Experiment By Top Laboratory Shows that Cosmic Rays Affect Cloud Formation, Which In Turn Affects Climate

      “The Director of CERN’s cosmic ray experiment (Jasper Kirby) now says that experiments show that cosmic rays significantly enhance the production of the particles which initiate the cloud-formation process. ”

      Sol Invictus can back Hansen a political appointee, I’ll back Jasper Kirby.

      “A team of Danish scientists from Aarhus University and the National Space Institute published results in May showing the same basic mechanism:” << ** replication **

      Or CERN is replication of the Danish study

      http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/scientific-experiment-top-laboratory-shows-cosmic-rays-affect-cloud-formation-which-turn

      This is actually old news there is an an American meteorologist who has said the same thing. Only he has been alternatively shouted down by the left or ignored.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:53am

      Dr Roy Spencer was talking about the suns influence on cloud formation & global warming for years.
      But the left ridiculed him and thus inoculated themselves. They don’t even look at that anyoore. Do their precious Climate models take that into account?

      Dr Hansen had a Climate Model n the 1970s. He said it predicted a new Ice Age. We can still find this on the internet, such an INCONVENIENT TRUTH!

      Does Dr. Hansen have as much mathematical ability as he did in his youth or is he now more of an administrator? Would you bet your life on his mathematical ability or that of some new graduate?
      Dr.Hansen had one incomplete Climate model that he staked his professional life on in the 1970s . It failed.

      So I ask you, would you place your future on this latest model when it does not include the finding of CERN?

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:59am

      I don’t want to rely on the reading form ground based weather stations anymore. There have been too many pictures of instruments placed between airport runways, next to diesel generators & other crap.

      I want to put more reliance on multiple satellite reading of the whole earth’s heat dissipation as well as continual monitoring of the Sun. Measuring solar weather has really got a kick start ofter Rio, Tokyo & Copenhagen. And I went 2 or 3 decades of those.

      The same Chicken Little scientists & Politicians are the same people as 12 year olds told their younger siblings during a visit to the beach that the incoming tide was a harbinger of the end of the world. You know they did.

      Report Post »  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:05am

      Is the causal link between cosmic rays and cloud cover really dead??

      Submitted by shaviv on Fri, 2008-04-11 12:19

      http://environmentalresearchweb.org/cws/article/opinion/33642

      “Here Comes the Sun” – Beatles 1969 Album Abbey Road
      YES SOL INVICTUS!

      Report Post »  
    • Boss J
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 11:12am

      pendentelite2 is a blasphemer!!! How dare you try to use MATH or, or FACTS in this debate?! What kind of RACIST are you? You didn’t post that exact comment when Bush was in office. I wish I lived in AZ so I could have you prosecuted for online bullying me with your evil science!
      (/sarcasm emoticon)

      Report Post » Boss J  
    • Zeb
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:45pm

      You have been looking in GODS outsource specifications.

      Report Post » Zeb  
  • MammalOne
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:54pm

    Why is it every time a report comes out where someone says “we shouldn’t be making conclusions without all the facts – the jury is still out on climate change“ everyone on the Blaze starts saying ”YEAH! FINALLY SOMEONE WITH COMMON SENSE – CLIMATE CHANGE IS BS!” ?

    No, that‘s not what they’re saying. It‘s just as foolish to say it’s real as it is to claim it’s bs, especially when using someone saying “i dont know” as your evidence.

    Report Post » MammalOne  
    • wetheppl
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:08pm

      ”yeah! Finally someone with common sense – climate change is bs!”

      Report Post »  
    • Jaycen
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:18am

      Mammalone, anyone with a little Chemistry and Physics background know most of the so-called science that supports Anthropomorphic Global Warming is nonsense. Much of it makes sense in a vacuum (examined without any other variables, not in an “actual” vacuum), but not in light of the rest of the data.

      Moreover, please just go to Scribd and download a bootleg copy of Ecoscience. The same champions of Global Warming were the same champions of Global Cooling 40 years ago. John Holdren, a current Obama appointee, is one scary dude.

      These people aren’t just wrong about the science, they have some very Malthusians views of the universe. Many are openly Fabians, or Progressive Socialists. Anything they say must be suspect.

      I knew the whole “ozone layer” thing was nonsense when I was in high school. I’d just spent a month learning all about ozone for a project. Of course, when a NASA scientist later tried to dispel the myths, the media ignored him. You must educate yourself.

      Report Post » Jaycen  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:22am

      @mam
      You make a good point about the science not being settled. With that being said, major policy decisions have been made on “teh assumption” that it is. Conversely, some blaze readers shouldn’t discount all scientific data on climate change because the story is incomplete. Great opportunities to improve the science exist when everyone has an open mind. As with all scientific endeavors, it’s a work in process. The greatest thing we can hope for is that all approach their investigations with objectivity. It’s important to expect the worst and hope for the best, but it’s hard to do that if our opinions are based on subjective results that are reported as true and impartial.

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • Firebrand
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:25am

      *progress*

      Report Post » Firebrand  
    • TH30PH1LUS
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 2:48am

      NASA,

      please focus on getting Americans into space without bumming rides from communist Russia.

      kthxbye

      Report Post » TH30PH1LUS  
    • J_Ruben_Kincaid
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:21am

      Climate change is a marxist tool to attempt to control the masses thruough fear. Its what marxists do.

      Report Post » J_Ruben_Kincaid  
    • Leader1776
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:27am

      Had this issue, starting with Holdren and his band of merry (pseudo-science) men in the ’70s, not evolved with political agendas then there wouldn’t be the backlash and mistrust of so-called scientists today. You make it sound as if you have some science background. If you do have that background, are you aware of the fundamental flaw in their hypothesis? What is missing?

      Report Post » Leader1776  
  • slickmeister
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:52pm

    “WVERNON1981
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:42pm

    You’re making some very serious allegations. You’re accusing the entire climate science community of defrauding the American public for their own gain potentially costing the world trillions upon trillions of dollars.”

    Drone, you nailed it except for one thing. It’s not just the “science community” who is defrauding the American public. It’s politicians like Algore who sat on the board of the Chicago Climate Exchange with global socialists like George Soros who all stood to make BILLIONS trading “carbon credits” that transferred wealth from advanced industrialized nations like the US into the hands of tin-hat dictators running 3rd world hellholes like Zimbabwe.

    This is a scam of EPIC proportions.

    Report Post » slickmeister  
  • Skee
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:38pm

    Scientists agree to governments marching orders
    scientists are guaranteed taxpayer money to fund research.
    What’s the problem?

    Report Post » Skee  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:06pm

      It is clear you have no idea how research grants are secured. Let me help you.

      1. A scientist is interested in a particular question.
      2. This scientist writes a letter to a funding agency (sometimes governmental but not always) requesting X amount of dollars to study this question and a description of how he will attempt to find an answer.
      3. 10,000 other scientists make their own requests to the same agency.
      4. The review panel for the funding agency sifts through the thousands of proposals to find the most well devised, interesting, and important research projects and gives them the grant money they request.
      5. The 9,900 other scientists who didn’t get the funding go back to square 2 and start all over again.

      You are certainly not guaranteed funding as a scientist – it’s actually VERY difficult to secure funds to do research. Science is highly competitive and only the best in the field are able to pursue science as a career. Furthermore, what a scientist studies is not dictated by “the government” in any way. Who do you think is sitting around in the government ordering scientists to study specific things?

      Report Post » MammalOne  
    • Cesium
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:50am

      Well said Mammalone.

      Report Post »  
    • mauijonny
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 3:17am

      @ MAMM: I‘ve worked for a scientist who gets gov’t grants. He does the same study over and over again, and if the study doesn‘t match what’s expected, he dumps it. BTW, he got this money because he knew somebody who knew somebody & would tow the line, not because he’s brilliant (although he thinks so). I don’t know about you, but I refer to that as junk science & croney capitalism. And, FYI, this guy makes about 300K a year – through taxpayer’s money, for worthless, redundant crap.

      Report Post » mauijonny  
    • Katydidnt
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 5:19am

      Mammalone – Who do you think is sitting around ordering scientists? The people who are providing the funding. Scientists who want funding notice what they are rewarding. For a while it was AIDS, autism and global warming. Hint, the new one is obesity, hence you get research that says obese women have more children with autism. Thank you Michelle Obama.

      My husband is a doctor and he is appalled with the studies that get published in medical journals. It’s as bad as global warming. Drug companies are running into real problems because most of the results in these studies cannot be reproduced. I think it was the Washington Examiner that recently had a piece on that.

      Report Post »  
    • KixAcelot
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 9:38am

      @Mammalone

      I could give you a list of names. (and just fyi my work email address ends with @NASA.gov)

      Report Post » KixAcelot  
    • Leader1776
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:36am

      @MammalOne
      Your number 4 does not apply today ……. or at least substantially modified. Other forces are at play. How do we know? What is the funding for AIDs today versus other communicable diseases that have MUCH larger public health costs/consequences? Research grants have a huge political component today. Administrators/grant reviewers at both NIH and NSF are 1st monitors of politics, then 2nd scientists. Are general grants issued, of course. Is there preferential treatment for certain topics ……… easily, yes.

      Report Post » Leader1776  
  • bankerpapaw
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:33pm

    Global climate change. What a pile of B.S.!!

    Report Post »  
    • Onowicit
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:44pm

      yep! the jig is up.

      Report Post » Onowicit  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:10pm

      Read the article – it’s an unresolved issue.

      Report Post » MammalOne  
    • TyrannyNoMore
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:45pm

      MAMMALONE….after reading your idiotic dribble, I suspect you work for the UN.

      Report Post » TyrannyNoMore  
    • Nobummer
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:43pm

      Are we still talking about this crap. The libs certainly are persistent. They wouldn‘t fight this hard if it weren’t a cash cow. Obozo must be running short on cash after the green energy failures were outed. Common sense is settled science. The last ice age melted and there weren’t any SUV-driving cave dwellers. Climate change…maybe–man made…nice try. It is all about control and power.

      Report Post »  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 10:43am

      @TYRANNY
      I work at a major university doing neuroscience research but I would certainly be making more money sitting on my thumbs working in the UN.

      Report Post » MammalOne  
  • PABlackie
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:25pm

    One volcano eruption in the first 20 seconds provides more greenhouse gas than weve saved in the last 20 years. Man made global warming is BS. Yes, we do need to reduce polution and waste but but going green is a waste too.. Those famous green lightbulbs now need to be specialy handled because of the mercury in them. How stupid are we….All those jobs gone to china and for what…a bulb that will polute.

    Report Post »  
    • Hickory
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:34pm

      It’s not about being green. It’s about a leftist agenda to control us.

      Report Post » Hickory  
    • jzs
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:50pm

      There’s disagreement, that’s for sure, although very little among climate scientists, the people who have the most advanced knowledge on this subject.

      In the meantime, here’s some empirical data for you. March was the hottest month on record in the United States ever in recorded history.

      “U.S. records warmest March; more than 15,000 warm temperature records broken

      First quarter of 2012 also warmest on record; early March tornado outbreak is year’s first “billion dollar disaster”

      Record and near-record breaking temperatures dominated the eastern two-thirds of the nation and contributed to the warmest March on record for the contiguous United States, a record that dates back to 1895. More than 15,000 warm temperature records were broken during the month.”
      http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/#overview

      You may have experienced and unusually short winter and record warm temperatures yourself.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • leftcoastslut
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:02pm

      don’t be controlled by the disaster mode they want you to believe in… calm down…. hum…. hum… i can feel the vibes. We all know that this is a hoax.. OK ..let’s move on… we already checked that off the list… OK, wha do you want to tackle next?

      Report Post »  
    • drattastic
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:11pm

      @jzs
      Oh JZ you folks never met a double standard you didn’t like. Other parts of the world were going through record cold temps. Just because the lower 48 had a mild march you libs gin up the man made global warming hoax. Wasn’t too long ago when we in the lower 48 were experiencing extreme cold weather you same people were saying that was just a snap shot and meant nothing and was no reflection of overall global warming, you know when global warming became climate change.

      Report Post » drattastic  
    • jzs
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:36pm

      drattastic, I gotta challenge your post. For one, record high temperatures, temperatures higher than ever recorded in the continental United States does not a “mild March” make. That’s not what “mild” means.

      Second, you say “Other parts of the world were going through record cold temps.” Sorry, I won’t take your word for that. Give me your source or sources for that.

      One concept you expressed is true however, and frankly you called me on it. There’s a difference between “weather” and “climate” as you astutely pointed out. I was talking about weather and that is not the same as climate. I was being a a little deceptive, doing the FOX thing. Sorry, I was talking down. Good for you for seeing through that. Awesome, and I mean that.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:15am

      JZS,

      So with all this record heat, the ocean levels should start rising pretty quick, no?

      Please make sure to warn Algore in time so that he can sell his beachfront getaway before his mortgage goes “UNDERWATER”

      http://www.libertymind.com/index.php?page_id=259

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • Incredulous321
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:23am

      JZS, you make a valid provable point that March was hot. That may prove that the climate is changing, but doesn‘t necessarily prove it’s caused by man. Mammalone, you make good points as well. The science is still incomplete, but even if it is found that man is causing a percentage of global warming that doesn‘t mean the politicians and money brokers aren’t trying to cash in. They are, and that’s obvious to everyone, which is why people here call the claims of man made global warming BS.

      Report Post » Incredulous321  
    • Therightsofbilly
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:32am

      Hey JZS

      http://thegwpf.org/the-observatory/5360-no-global-warming-for-15-years.html

      Report Post » Therightsofbilly  
    • republitarian
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 1:24am

      JZS, People are freezing to death in Ukraine.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16868194

      Report Post » republitarian  
    • mauijonny
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 3:28am

      Here ya JZ: http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm

      Report Post » mauijonny  
  • HorseCrazy
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:05pm

    good people speaking out against the climate garbage science. this agenda driven garbage keeps the scientists paychecks coming it is very self serving. so sick of the warmingistas. get over it first grade science should have taught you C02 makes plants thrive it does not cause hurricanes.

    Report Post »  
    • leftcoastslut
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:12pm

      if we were in a CO2 crisis, every weekend we would have to cut down the darn 10 foot weeds that just sprang up… hello

      Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:27pm

      Some of us actually made it past first grade science.

      Report Post »  
    • leftcoastslut
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:32pm

      I do believe that our seasons have changed, but it is not carbon dioxide that is causing it, could be some wierd chemical that they added to the gasoline in their attempt to be a genius and gain riches… this whole thing is very deceitful… ok what have you done? reminds me of that movie….”You can’t handle the truth”…….

      Report Post »  
    • chips1
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:58pm

      It seems to me that we never had a problem with global warming until the government became top heavy with Democrats. They can’t even understand the Constitution, let alone a math problem. Just kicking the ant hill.

      Report Post »  
  • South Philly Boy
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:01pm

    Global Warming + algore + Other STOOGES = FRAUD

    Report Post » South Philly Boy  
  • Your Name Here
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:51pm

    Global cooling, global warming, climate change. I call B.S.
    Cap & trade is NOT about doing anything to remedy the purported problem. It is solely about power and money.
    What else do you expect from a government agency?
    The real problem with climate is related to solar activity but since the sun is so far away the tax and spend liberals can’t tax the sun.
    I am all for protecting the Earth, but within reason and in a balanced manner.

    Report Post » Your Name Here  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:55pm

      How would you feel about it if the cap did not transfer any money to the government?

      Report Post »  
    • LandBandit
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:13pm

      Who in heavens name would get the tax from the cap if not a government?

      Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:28pm

      The government could impose a cap on carbon, sell the carbon credits from that cap, collect the money, and refund it to tax payers.

      Report Post »  
    • bullcrapbuster
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 11:00pm

      wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:55pm

      How would you feel about it if the cap did not transfer any money to the government?
      Answer:
      If the above happened then the B/S global warming cult would disappear. The manipulators would have to manufacture some other phoney catastrophe to keep their usefull idiots occupied. (pun intended)

      Report Post » bullcrapbuster  
  • bullcrapbuster
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:49pm

    You do not have to be a rocket scientist to see clearly that man made global warming is pure progressive fueled propaganda. Our earth is flying through space at an incredible speed as is our solar system. Anyone that has a decent telescope can see that there are dusty spots and clear spots all over our Galaxy. If we enter a slightly dustier area our temp will be slightly cooled or visa versa when we enter a clearer area. Also the temperature of the sun’s surface varies slightly up or down over decades. Some of the excuses we hear from the global warming cult for colder winters etc are bordering on lunacy. They have been caught red handed fudging the numbers.This is a Marxist bullsh!t story straight from big brother in the book 1984. In that book the big scare was a phoney war that was supposidly being waged,but was just big brother shooting the odd rocket here and there to keep the people united in a great patriotic cause. Thank god we have the internet where we can expose and counter these evil manipulators. We need to tell our children and grand kids that what their being taught at school about manmade global warming is a lie perpetrated by power hungry bad guys..

    Report Post » bullcrapbuster  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:56pm

      Interesting hypothesis. Has anyone ever tested it?

      Report Post »  
    • HorseCrazy
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:01pm

      you are right. it goes against the basis of science ti question everything how certain scientists just accept ridiculous agenda driven junk science. plants eat C02 that is 1st grade science. the job of the pros is the question and study not just accept this line of bull.

      Report Post »  
    • its_time_to_arrest_our_government
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:08pm

      global warming is caused by progressive b/s. when are the American people going to stop putting up with these lying cons? they have screwed the taxpayer out of enough money for this bogus crap. We need to make politicians pay us back for the money they have given to these lying frauds. Its time for we the people to say we have had it with lying politicians that give away our tax dollars for these bogus claims. the only place the planet is heating up is in DC from all the hot air being blown out of lying politicians lips. It is time we put these lying con men in jail for the damage they have done to our nation and our people. seems like the bigger the lie the more they screw us. well it is time we put these crooks in jail. this is just one of the frauds being pulled on the people of this nation. the only way we are going to clean it up is to arrest them all for corruption and replace everyone of them. its time we throw them all out even if they are not up for reelection. they need to all be arrested the minute the step off the air plane at home and replaced with people that are not corrupt. one term and they need to be done.

      Report Post »  
    • LandBandit
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:19pm

      All true. Don’t forget that Marx considered environmental conceens ripe for his idea of socialism and causing rhe people to commume to “save” the environment. The present envirofascists are not espousing new concepts. Our educators just fail to include these teachings as Marxian. Our young people think this environmental obsession is new. It is not. It has long been fodder for the socialist.

      Report Post »  
    • MammalOne
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 10:14pm

      Space dust? Really?

      Report Post » MammalOne  
  • Glenn in Virginia
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:41pm

    Never mind gathering any supporting facts, the allegation is sufficient to conclude there IS man made global “climate change.”

    Report Post »  
    • TXPilot
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:52pm

      The reason liberals get so crazy upset, when you discount their whole global warming fantasy, is because it is one of the main cornerstones of their faith, which is called Secular Progressive-ism…..When you worship at the alter of a false god, of course you are going to be a bit sensitive to criticism……..

      Report Post » TXPilot  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:56pm

      bwahahaha

      the “ evidence” is an example of the sloppiest science ever to be done

      Report Post » Psychosis  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:00pm

      Don’t forget that when they got caught in their lies it became Climate Change.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
  • lala76
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:40pm

    They certainly have my respect, and thanks, for speaking up. If more people stood up and called bullshite on this “science” then it wouldn’t grow into the beast it has become. Similar to how the “theory” of evolution is somehow treated as a law by most in the scientific world. Try mentioning a peep of creationism in the mix and see fangs come out.

    Report Post »  
  • The Gooch
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:34pm

    For some, man-made global warming is nothing less than a religious issue. For others, it’s a handy sledgy to impose ideological wet dreams. Regardless, expecting either brand of crazy to engage in civil debate or rational thought is a noble exercise in futility.

    Report Post »  
  • Treaty
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:32pm

    We don’t so much need a resolution to man made global warming so much as we need a carbon tax. The governments of this world are getting shafted by the people because the people are unwilling to give them more money. Why is it so hard to understand that government can solve all of our problems if they just had more money? Bunch of cheap skate Republicans. If Bush had signed Kyoto we wouldn’t be having this problem.

    Report Post » Treaty  
  • Nemo13
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:32pm

    The world is not stagnant. Climate changes all the time. It is pure vanity to think the speck called man can control anything. The earth lets out a fart, 100,000 die. Whole species die. Man is nothing compared to the massiveness that is nature. We are a part of nature. global warming is not in control of man. Neither is global cooling, or global anything. But there are plenty of Al Snores ready to pay off or fund idiots for their delusions of grandeur.

    Report Post »  
  • VoteRightDammit
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:29pm

    OFF with their HEADS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
  • randy
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:27pm

    Doesn’t matter if it is real or not with those global warming lunatics. They’re doing everything they can to cram it down your throat. Too much money involved…… Everyone remember global cooling back in the 70′s?

    Report Post » randy  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:32pm

      There weren‘t very many papers on global cooling published in the 70’s. Warming was still the dominant theory then.

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:32pm

      Yeah! The OTHER Jimmy Carter was in office(groan)!

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • Sirfoldallot
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:53pm

      I do I do

      Report Post » Sirfoldallot  
    • RJJinGadsden
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:55pm

      WVERNON1981, It was referred to as a coming ice age and not global cooling. Heard that all through the ’70s. The first time that I recall of hearing about global warming was when I returned from a tour in Germany and was standing ass deep in snow in Ft Drum, NY….in late March.

      Report Post » RJJinGadsden  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:09pm

      THE MYTH OF THE 1970S GLOBAL COOLING SCIENTIFIC CONSENSUS Thomas C. Peterson*
      NOAA National Climatic Data Center, Asheville, North Carolina
      William M. Connolley
      British Antarctic Survey
      Natural Environment Research Council, Cambridge, United Kingdom
      and
      John Fleck
      Albuquerque Journal, Albuquerque, New Mexico

      http://ams.confex.com/ams/pdfpapers/131047.pdf

      Report Post »  
    • LandBandit
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:24pm

      In the 1970‘s there wasn’t a need for “papers” on global coolimg. The envirowackos said it… some people believed it. Most people ignored it as nonsense… which it was. Then as now climate change was cyclical and dependent on a sun that does not ask our opinion.

      Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:26pm

      And the proponents of cooling were wrong back then and if the “envirowackos” promoted cooling without evidence, then they were wrong.

      Report Post »  
    • ADNIL
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 5:52am

      I remember it well. By now we should be entering an ice age if it were true.

      Report Post »  
  • Max jones
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:27pm

    They’ve done a lot of research with tree rings and geological layers, and it has suggested that globalized climate change has been very common in the earth’s history……but that does not fit the agenda.

    Report Post » Max jones  
  • Mateytwo Barreett
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:27pm

    Yet another, highly placed individual of non-european-american extraction (NOTICE: a double hyphen a twofer!) comparing a questionable, at best,theory to slavery- or civil rights. Meanwhile, back in the continent of his origin, they continue to murder, rape, maim, and actually do enslave- nothing is said- or done.

    Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
  • TRONRADIO
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:26pm

    NASA is folding as losers and liars run the joint now. That list of people signing this letter is an impressive bunch. God bless ‘em all.

    Report Post »  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:31pm

      Perhaps.

      But NASA is getting REALLY GOOD at promoting the Arab contributions to science and technology.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • TRONRADIO
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:35pm

      My uncle worked for NASA; back in the 70‘s and 80’s; the people were amazing, hard-working with no other agenda than to expand real science and they did it with honor and grace. I’m sorry to see such distraction and destruction of the program. Can it be saved? Of course; when we save America from Obama and his evil.

      Report Post »  
  • Exrepublisheep
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:18pm

    FORMER employees. Always trustworthy. They probably needed more Murdoch money.

    Report Post » Exrepublisheep  
    • big russ
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:28pm

      global warming is the biggest scam ever perpetrated on humanity. it is a lie. follow the money,start with a man named Maurice strong.its ALL about making money .and the gullible evirowakcos have played right into their hands.ask why AL GORE stands to make billions selling carbon credits.

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:29pm

      Or are not happy about NOT getting gov’t hush money!

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:40pm

      Nothing announces an unbiased and open mind like a good ol’ ad hominem attack, Are you upset because you perceive this as an attack upon a religion or angry that someone would dare attempt to rob ideologues of this very useful fear mongering tool?

      Report Post »  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:59pm

      yes, former employees who no longer have to fear retribution

      i trust them MORE than the pantywaists of this administration and the “ scientists” pushing man caused global warming

      Report Post » Psychosis  
  • wvernon1981
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:16pm

    Imagine that. Non experts expecting to be taken seriously.

    Report Post »  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:24pm

      they have more credibility than most of your leftard “ scientists ”

      Report Post » Psychosis  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:31pm

      EX-pert: Unknown drip under pressure!

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:31pm

      Are you qualified to assess the credibility of any given climatologist?

      Report Post »  
    • The Gooch
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:46pm

      Yeah, kinda reminds me of that one fat guy who made a career out of this nonsense. I hear he made a very funny movie about this latest “the sky is falling!” rant.

      Report Post »  
    • Mateytwo Barreett
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:47pm

      Let’s follow “THE MONEY”. Scientists get paid by whom? Ding? government grants. How do the sciedntists get the grants? Ding! they apply for them. Who approves them? Ding! Bureaucrats. What wouldl the criteria be? Ding! We want proof for advancing new taxation.

      When I was a kid, it was taught in school that animals exhaled carbon dioxide and the plantsused CO2 for photosynthesis. Has that changed?.

      Report Post » Mateytwo Barreett  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:54pm

      “When I was a kid, it was taught in school that animals exhaled carbon dioxide and the plantsused CO2 for photosynthesis. Has that changed?.”

      Cars, industry, planes…

      Report Post »  
    • Gary S
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 9:13pm

      Cars, planes, etc—-; mircoscopic compared to the average volcano fart.

      Report Post »  
  • ReaganBaby
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:13pm

    How many more scientist are going to have to come out before the leftest nut jobs stop saying man made global climate change is real.

    Report Post » ReaganBaby  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:17pm

      It would take the majority of climate scientists for me.

      Report Post »  
    • Psychosis
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:22pm

      ah look

      a new troll to play with named wvernon1981

      Report Post » Psychosis  
    • Tired of Code Names
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:31pm

      wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:17pm
      It would take the majority of climate scientists for me

      Most of the climate scientists are funded by the government. If they don’t follow the “agenda” which is cap and trade…..they lose the funding. Climate scientists like their jobs. Must take a lot of guts to actually come out and state it’s a hoax. They are limiting any chance for promotion and certainly their funding from the government. NASA is already declining under the Obama administration. I guess when folks figure out that their going to be out of the job anyway, they might as well state the truth. Liberal left will say they are just getting back for being pushed out for not drinking the coolaide.

      Report Post »  
    • wvernon1981
      Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:42pm

      You’re making some very serious allegations. You’re accusing the entire climate science community of defrauding the American public for their own gain potentially costing the world trillions upon trillions of dollars. Do you have any actual evidence? Defecting climate scientists?

      The biased research doesn’t hold much water unless you want to throw all government funded research out the window as being biased for similar conflicts of interest.

      Report Post »  
  • possom
    Posted on April 10, 2012 at 8:08pm

    Could it be that if global warming doe‘s exist it’s because were cutting down all the tree’s? And all the hot air coming from the whitehouse is making it worse!

    Report Post » possom  
    • troymac20
      Posted on April 11, 2012 at 12:00am

      Dont think thats hot air coming from the whitehouse….pretty sure its BS instead.

      Report Post » troymac20  
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