‘It’s Time for Them to Be Afraid’: Greek ‘Neo-Nazi’ Party Leader Lashes Out at ‘Traitors’ as He Calls for Revolution
- Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:14pm by
Erica Ritz
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An extreme far-right Golden Dawn party's supporter holds a flare during the elections results in the northern Greek port city of Thessaloniki, Sunday, May 6, 2012. Golden Dawn, which has vowed to kick out immigrants and mine Greece's borders with Turkey, was predicted to win between 6.5-7.5 percent, well above the 3 percent needed to enter parliament. (AP Photo/Nikolas Giakoumidis)
(The Blaze/AP) — The leader of an extreme-right, anti-immigrant party on course for shock success in Greece’s general elections Sunday lashed out at those he described as “traitors” responsible for the country’s financial crisis and said his party was ushering in a “revolution.”
The far-right Golden Dawn party is set to win 7 percent of the parliamentary vote, according to early projections, as Greeks punished the traditionally dominant parties who backed harsh austerity measures tied to debt-relief agreements.
Parties must exceed a 3-percent threshold of the vote to be represented in Greece’s parliament. In the last general election in 2009, Golden Dawn received merely 0.29 percent. It has seen its support jump as a wave of anti-immigrant sentiment has spread in financially devastated Greece.
Golden Dawn leader Nikolaos Michaloliakos told The Associated Press in an interview that his party had delivered a blow against the country’s corrupt leadership.
“They slandered us, slung mud at us, and shut us out of all the news media – the TV channels of the corrupt elite – and we beat them,” the 55-year-old leader said as the votes came in. “The day of national revolution by the Greeks has begun against those who are selling us out and looting the sweat of the Greek people.”
Many say the 'Golden Dawn' logo resembles a swastika (Photo: AP)
Golden Dawn campaigned hard against illegal immigration, and its supporters have been blamed for a recent spike in inner-city street attacks against mostly Asian immigrants.
The party’s supporters, routinely seen intimidating dark-skinned immigrants in run-down parts of the capital, wear black shirts, and its emblems resemble Nazi insignia. But Michaloliakos has rejected the neo-Nazi label widely used for his party, stressing that it is staunchly nationalist.
Referring to immigrants, Golden Dawn’s campaign slogan in television ads was “let’s rid this country of the stench.”
Javad Aslan, a spokesman for Greece’s Pakistani immigrant community, urged other political parties to work together to isolate Golden Dawn.
“This is dangerous for everyone who is living in Greece,” Aslan said. “This (result) unbelievable for me. It is very serious, very dangerous. I can never believe a political party that comes with knives and bars against us, that hurts people and puts them in hospital.”
Photo: AP
Golden Dawn says Greece should reject its bailout commitments and write off its debt.
“No one should fear me if they are a good Greek citizen. If they are traitors – I don’t know,” Michaloliakos said.
Flanked by two muscly aides, he later told a news conference: “Those who betray this country – it’s time for them to be afraid. We are coming.”
He did not elaborate, but added: “We will fight to free Greece from the global loan sharks, for a Greece of dignity and independence, and for a Greece that is not a social jungle with all these millions of illegal immigrants that were brought here.”
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Comments (277)
Inlightofthings
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:17pmThis may go over some heads…but we are not headed toward Europe as much as we already are what the plight of the Euro represents.
Report Post »MCDAVE
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:02pmIt may soon be time to consider other options http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/declaration-of-secession/
Report Post »MCDAVE
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:35pm@SHYLOW please translate your …I don’t have a clue what your talking about..
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:29amAre 73% of their illegals on welfare? Ours are………
Report Post »EndTheFedNOW
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:50amHell yeah. Its just like what happened in Iceland. The bankers come on and take over the countrys debt. Then sign all that debt onto derivatives. But the people of Iceland said no when the bankers came to collect. The bankers made all that debt. Not the people. The centeral banks have done this all over the world. Here in the US its the same. But unless we tell them to go to hell…well America will start to look alot like Europe.
EndTheFed
Arrest the bankers.
Take back our Republic.
Report Post »ShyLow
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:56amOn the last episode of TBBT they made a reference to a scene from Dirty Dancing…I was pointing out that I referenced the same scene about 2 weeks before it aired …My story is to long and convoluted for me to be able to sum it up…Here is a thread were I did my best to kind of create a picture http://www.theblaze.com/stories/what-does-atheist-physicist-stephen-hawking-ponder-most-women/ …Read what I posted , and just ask me questions if you feel the need…I am a ninth grade drop-out and could use someone to transcribe my story
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:56am@The Third Archon,
Fascism is collectivist, yes; As is racism.
They may not be inclusive of everyone, but they do view people in terms of groups.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:10am“Our government was set up with the goal of securing individual liberty”
That may be the government you WISH we had, and it may be the government you were TAUGHT we have, but it’s not the government of American history. If the government was constituted with the express purpose of maximizing individual liberty, then why is it, that that SAME government was FAR more restrictive on civil liberties when it was setup, than it is today. For example, when the government was set up, ONLY those who were land-owning white men were allowed to vote. The majority of black individuals were kept in perpetual bondage with NO rights whatsoever. The same could be said of natives living within U.S. territory and subject to its authority, minus the bondage part.
“…localize the vast majority of the roles of government.”
Also it did less then as the socioeconomic context and technology were vastly different.
“…obstacles to the consolidation of power were put in place…”
More like it was setup in such a way as to allow any sufficiently organized and determined minority to impede any change it disagrees with.
“Government has a role – but not in the economy…”
Report Post »By existing, government effects the economy–that’s part of what I mean by “no market” existed(s) in a sociopolitical vacuum. ALL law effects what is “profitable.” It is a fanciful notion to think government could exist WITHOUT having an effect on the economy. No government exists without spending mon
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:24am*money. Both this, and law making, will influence the character of the society and economy–hence the existence of the term socioeconomic, which recognizes the interconnected nature of the two.
If corporatism ISN’T what you have in mind, then pray, point to a DIFFERENT system–point to a capitalist economy that has EVER been non-corporatist? I don’t think corporatism, in the strict sense of groups formed for a common purpose, is inherently the problem, moreover, I don’t know HOW you could propose a system that worked otherwise, unless you mean something DIFFERENT by “corporatism.”
Are you SURE you shouldn’t be an anarchist?
“…there are classes in both…”
Report Post »It’s not the classes in of themselves (although some anarchists might disagree) that’s the problem–its the pursuit of classism FOR ITS OWN SAKE, and linking it to arbitrary and static features of people that’s the problem. Yes, you are historically accurate in that the only forms of political government drawing from Marxist philosophy that HAVE existed were authoritarian socialist ones, which continued the classism of prior governments. But in both Marxist theory of communism, and much of anarchist philosophy as well as modern libertarian socialism which is rooted therein, the GOAL is either the dissolution of ALL classes, or just the dissolution of formal classes, so that class is not an ESSENTIAL, defining, immutable characteristic of a person, something fascism, by contrast, explicitly EMBRAC
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:39am“Fascism is collectivist, yes; As is racism.
They may not be inclusive of everyone, but they do view people in terms of groups.”
Well now you are just arguing semantics. And if you stretch the definition of “collectivism” to be so broad as to mean categorically “any treatment of people in terms of group” then you’ve successfully defined yourself out of meaning anything, because that’s not a categorically (or even MOST of the time), bad thing to do. There’s a REASON why we call SOME but not ALL people “doctors” and that defining of a distinct group based upon perceived similarities isn’t just not bad, it’s actually USEFUL and BENEFICIAL (necessary to professional disciplines who specialize in areas of knowledge and technique). And what about groups the define themselves according to religious identity? THEY, at least, certainly view themselves in group terms, imaging (rightly or wrongly) that they share similarities. What’s WRONG with the simple act of them viewing themselves as a group? I don’t think you will find one. Moreover, them viewing themselves as a group, or sharing SOME characteristics, is not mutually exclusive with them simultaneously viewing the DIFFERENCES of OTHER characteristics that make them individuals.
Report Post »Fla Del
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:48amThe Nothing is Coming
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 6:39aminlightofthings… things may become far worse in the u.s. the credit situation in greece will certainly not improve with votes like this. they may only have a small percentage but i think the markets will react poorly.
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:11amI don’t think Germany will bail you out again if your government gets any crazier than it already is, Greece.
Report Post »Hey, Greece… and Obama, look at Wisconsin! Governor Walker is going the opposite way and Wisconsin is making money again. Big government always leads to poverty, corruption, and ruin.
DonaldH
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:56amThe original battle for Western Civilization began with the Greek City-states turning back the evil tribes of the uncivilized– let it begin there, again.. Stand for the lives of your children- Stand with Golden Dawn..!!!
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:08amOMG! Not the Neo-Nazis.. Hitler has risen from the Dead. We must prepare ourselves immediately and protect the tribe of Judah from these Neo-Nazis at all costs! I stand with the Jews and Israel against the mean ugly hateful and insidious Nationalists no matter what country they spring from! Internationalism, multiculturalism, pluralism and diversity must be condoned promoted and worshipped in every corner of the Globe if the brotherhood of mankind is indeed to thrive under our most benevolent Judaic NWO.
Trust them. Trust Beck. They are looking out for you. They desire to protect and cherish the US Constitution. Truly they are. Stand your ground against any group that rears its ugly head against Pluralism! Well I mean pluralism in America and Europe. Homogenous populations are most welcomed and encouraged in say Africa, Asia, and Israel.. just not America and Europe!
I bow my knee to the god of Multiculturalism and the Judaic NWO and I pledge the people of the USA to promote and fight for it!
AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:58amVOXIE….the national socialists in Germany in the 1930‘s were for workers’ rights. Sounds just like the lefties here doesn’t it?
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:26amIt’s easy to judge this on words like “Neo-nazi” but you have to understand a few things that have been happening in Greece since the EU took over.
Greece saw an influx of Albanian, Afghan and other muslim immigrants (legal and illegal) since it became a member of the EU. Greece is tiny country with a homogenous society with cradle-to-the-grave entitlments that was barely able to pay for these programmes before this influx. All of a sudden it’s inundated with hundreds of thousands of muslim immigrants expecting handouts on their way to other more affluent European countries. Along with them came a spike in illicit drugs and violent crime. This isn’t imagined, this is real and it’s been steadily increasing over the last decade. Greece hit the wall for it’s socialist policies and now has to pay for non-Greeks also. You have to understand..Greece is not like the U.S. Greeks are Greeks..not “italian-Americans“ or ”Irish-Americans“ or ”African-Americans”, Indian-Americans…etc with the all the accompanying history and cultural carryovers. They are Greeks. Caucasian, Greek speaking, Christian Orthodox.Greeks. They’ve been this way for countless centuries even during the Ottoman occupation. All of a sudden they’re forced to accept alien cultures that bring their own demands and problems with them. Putin in Russia plays on this and Greeks see Russia as their friend who will be a bullwark against Muslim incursion. So now ultra-nationalists appeal t
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:45am“Greece saw an influx of Albanian, Afghan and other muslim immigrants (legal and illegal) since it became a member of the EU.”
And who opened their borders and encouraged the great hordes of immigration into Greece? Without knowing for certain yet being wise and perspicacious I’d say the same group of people who worked so hard to open the borders of America and who demands they remain wide open with their clever use of their perverted Media..
Any guesses? Lol
Oh America when will you come around to the understanding that you have been had… You have been played by the Internationalists and played big time!
Wake up! These people are after your throats.. They are preparing for our demise! Don’t listen to Beck and all of his raving Internationalist handlers.
Again without having researched or even looked I state boldly who opened the doors to Greece. Anyone willing to do a little research and call me out?
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:58amTECHENGINEER…is this your way of addressing me without addressing me? Let me guess the EU charter was signed by Jews right? Keep trying champ..and what colour are the laces on your doc martens today? Red or white? It’s what every fashionable white supremacist is wearing.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:58am@The Third Archon,
“Well now you are just arguing semantics. And if you stretch the definition of “collectivism” to be so broad as to mean categorically “any treatment of people in terms of group” then you’ve successfully defined yourself out of meaning anything, because that’s not a categorically (or even MOST of the time), bad thing to do.”
Some people are more equal than others? The principle is the same.
And those who will be tasked with eradicating individualism in the name of the “public good” will somehow be seen by the Marxist as “one of us”.
“There’s a REASON why we call SOME but not ALL people “doctors” and that defining of a distinct group based upon perceived similarities isn’t just not bad, it’s actually USEFUL and BENEFICIAL (necessary to professional disciplines who specialize in areas of knowledge and technique).”
Once you introduce specialization into the equation, you have income inequality. This is not a bad thing, in my view because “wealthy” and “poor” are not classes; but it is, and they are, in yours.
The reason specialization (indeed, all trade) leads to income inequality is because some people will need or want X good or service, and others won’t – people value things differently.
In fact, the fundamental reason people trade is because they have different time preferences for X. They would rather trade than make X themselves; The labor saved is profit.
Report Post »drattastic
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:27pmI’ve been predicting this sort of thing for awhile(no brainer),as Greece implodes civil war looms and the obvious targets will be outsiders.The EU as a whole isn’t far behind . France just doubled down on a socialist ( you know the same tax and spend ,entitlement minded ,big government controlled ,multiculti ,stimulus insanity of printed money ) that put the EU in the death spiral it finds itself in now. The same road we find ourselves on. Will we be smart enough to pull out of this madness now or will it come to blood here as well.
Report Post »scruffycat
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:33pmOk here are a few thoughts. These Greek Neo Nazis aren’t doing it right. Their speaker‘s voice wasn’t deep and commanding like Adolph’s was. This guy kind of squeeks along while he talks. That can be fixed though. And this new stylized Greek Swastika on their neo Nazi flag looks ok but its a bit too geometrically busy for me as compared to the standard forward walking swastika of the Third Reich. But its ok. They get a B+ for effort as they seem to really be into it. But they shouldn’t be ashamed of the red and white nazi swastika flag. The red being Socialism, the White being Virginity and the white race, and the Swastika the ancient symbol of Movement and Reincarnation. To unlock the next level, a wave of muslim killings must begin though. And a great propaganda engine is going to have to be cranked up to convince the pure native Greeks that these unclean interloping foreigners are the cause of Greece being on the precipice. Actually the whole world is on the precipice. Neo Nazism today is more about the purity of the white race and keeping it that way rather than pushing national socialism I think. Which is kind of cute when you think about the Greeks who were not included in the Third Reich’s list of pure white peoples using neo nazism as their political party meme. Olive Purity Now! Olive Power! I think it all may be a sociological reaction to forced multiculturalism.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:47pmOzzieCurK
Ha ha this explains some of your constant frustration – A big part of the problem you have, is, you can’t speak American very well! How Ironic – no wonder you constantly seem a few degrees off top center!
It is comical watching you rage and rag on us Americans – and it explains the problem you have with real women. And wealth! It’s funny to read your OC paranoid assertions that so many of us are fakes – is just part of your own wack wanker persona. ROTGL
TEA
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:08pm@The Third Archon,
“Are you SURE you shouldn’t be an anarchist?”
I’m not. I believe in Austrian Economics, which means I believe in the principle of non-aggression, private property rights, and that central economic planning agencies cause chaos by distorting the free market price system.
There are Anarchists who believe in Austrian Economics, though.
The following links will help you understand where we’re coming from, if you’re interested.
Marxists blame the free market for economic crashes due to “too much” production in capital-intensive markets (such as what they supposed happened before the Great Depression). There is a correlation between capital markets and economic crashes, but the Marxists are blaming the wrong thing.
The first video should be interesting for you because it explains how artificial credit expansion (fiat money, protections, subsidies, etc.) is actually the cause of economic crashes, as opposed to increased capital market activity, per se.
See here.
Smashing Myths and Restoring Sound Money | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAzExlEsIKk
And here.
Why You’ve Never Heard of the Great Depression of 1920 | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
http ://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czcU*****mnsprQI
Did you know Ron Paul predicted the housing crash back in 2001? That was due to Austrian Economics.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:35pmMONACNE/SLEAZY HIPPO…that shrill post of yours didn’t work very well for you..perhaps if you logged in as one of your many other screennames here it may be more in character for one of them? Oh..but make sure you don’t put your insipid “TEA” at the end of that persona’s post…you don’t want to give you game away again like you did last time. There’s a good lefty troll. Keep up the posts tovarich..media matters appreciates them.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:43pmAvengerK:
While I strongly suspect that the more influential proponents of the EU charter were Jewish, I know for certain that the most influential proponents of the American Immigration Act of 1965 were and I’ve read enough History to know that they are indeed the prime movers when it comes to promoting Multiculturalism, Diversity and Pluralism wherever they reside.
So why does such a talented educated and astute Beck follower like yourself have to always result to name calling? I’ve stated many times that I despise both Marxism and Socialism. I’ve never been to a Klan meeting and I actually do not care for what is usually referred to as Neo-Nazi today. However, I am an American Nationalist. I love and cherish my Founding Fathers and I relish the Constitution which they presented us..
So why am I so hated by Beck lackeys? Is it because I don’t embrace their notion of multiculturalism and universalism which is trumpeted by their Messianic leader aka “The Rodeo Clown” at the request of the Chosen?
Without question Multiculturalism is at the center of every issue which this Nation faces yet we are distracted daily by Rodeo Clowns such as Beck, Hannity, Orielly, Alex Jones, Limbaugh, Levin etc. from the true source of this predicament. Informed people realize when you have to resort to name calling you’ve lost the debate.. Even ignorant people usually realize that.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:07pmOh that’s how you play your game TECHENGINEER? You “stongly suspect”? You’re an idiot.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:18pmand I’ve told you TECHENGINEER…one has to shower after addressing white supremacist filth like you. You bleat your insipid “why do you call me names?” expecting that it will get you any traction? You’re a white supremacist, you’re getting all the respect you deserve. What? Do you believe you deserve better? Clownshoes.
Report Post »MONICNE
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:27pmSpecialK (AuzziCur-K) is not fully literate with American speak! He keeps lapsing into Eurospeak!
And Russkie!
Picture an Australian dance hall: (LOL) all the women are sitting together at tables and dancing together, all the men are playing darts at the rail in the back and talking about futbol!
It’s kind of like American Congress – nothing gets done until time to close!
TEA
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:07pmYou’re really unhinged today MOREACNE/SLEAZY HIPPO….I understand that cranberry juice is useful at times like these?
Report Post »I took the liberty of finding a link that you may find useful to you today in light of the behaviour you’re displaying. That’s today Monday May, 7th…..not Tuesday May 8th..you seemed to be all over the dateline/time difference map earlier so I thought it prudent to clarify for you.
http://www.essortment.com/natural-remedies-pms-38678.html
You’re welcome.
Jaycen
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 3:13pmI’m more than a little sick of “far-right” used to describe Nazis. Nazis are far-left.
Far-right is anarchy. The farther right you go, the less government you have. The farther left you go, the MORE government you have.
Using “far-right“ as a synonym for ”extremism“ or ”violent” only serves to muddy the waters, and any blogger or so-called journolist who participates should be called to the carpet for it.
Report Post »Tonto USA
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:56pmWe had to know this was coming. Every action produces and equal and opposite reaction…..Nazis and Muz are brothers under the skin. But, the nazis aren’t “far right”. They’re commies. And, think about it. The delivery and window dressing is different, but the basic authoritarian oligarchy is exactly the same.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:11pmAvengerK: You must realize how shallow your arguments are.. so lame that all you can do is call names like a 5th grader. Truth is you are either a blood thirst Zionist desire to set the stage for Jesus return, a Jew or just a simple fool that does not understand how Multiculturalism has destroyed this once great and glorious nation… and yes I use past tense because America has been destroyed.
As in the way Jesus spoke to the Fig tree and the next day the disciples saw that it had withered. The root has already been poisoned and it’s dead. But surely you have a little understanding.. I don’t think that you are Jewish either so I suspect that you are a wannabe Christian Zionist who like most are simply rotten to the core. You know the truth but you’re not man enough to face it.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 1:30am@techengineer11,
“Truth is you are either a blood thirst Zionist desire to set the stage for Jesus return …”
Just wanted to share that it is not the Christian position that a conscious effort is required in order to “set the stage” for Jesus’ return.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on May 9, 2012 at 9:16amA Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 1:30am
@techengineer11,
“Truth is you are either a blood thirst Zionist desire to set the stage for Jesus return …”
Just wanted to share that it is not the Christian position that a conscious effort is required in order to “set the stage” for Jesus’ return.
While that may be true and I believe that it is one can’t deny that many Fundamentalist are advocating for such a scenario. Besides there are many early Christian doctrines which have just been completely bastardized by the Church today.
There’s really not so much difference between those ignorant radicals in Christianity and those in Islam. I sure hate to say that but there’s an element of truth in it.
Report Post »Lurchbus
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:15pmWhy does their flag look kind of like a Natzi Flag
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:24pm…because they’re a far-right nationalist party? And like Nazis?
Report Post »Al J Zira
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:30pmDon;t know but I also never knew Nazi had a “T” in it.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:45pmThe Symbol is alike the Nazi Swastika… but it also alike an Ancient Decoration found upon Greek Vases!
Report Post »The Woot
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:54pmIts a stylized 2012 version , couldn’t get the swastika to upload on an Ipod.
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:00pmSounds like they just want to rid themselves of multiculturalism/globalism to me.
Report Post »Nothing wrong with that. If you want to call them Nazi’s, go ahead.
And……if you think it won’t come down to violent revolution in the US to protect our nationalism, you better think again.
Multiculturalism is code for the NWO/UN agenda ,and if you don’t think it is a very real threat, you just have not done enough reading.
homebuilder
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:56pmVox_populi
You need to study your government and history a little closer. They are far left not far right. A far right leaning group stands for less government and less government control. They stand for self responsibility. All nationalist, socialist, communist, or any type of government that wants to control your entire life is far left leaning not conservative.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:21pm“Sounds like they just want to rid themselves of multiculturalism/globalism to me.
Report Post »Nothing wrong with that. If you want to call them Nazi’s, go ahead.
And……if you think it won’t come down to violent revolution in the US to protect our nationalism, you better think again.
Multiculturalism is code for the NWO/UN agenda ,and if you don’t think it is a very real threat, you just have not done enough reading.”
Spoken like a true Nazi.
The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:22pm“You need to study your government and history a little closer. They are far left not far right. A far right leaning group stands for less government and less government control. They stand for self responsibility. All nationalist, socialist, communist, or any type of government that wants to control your entire life is far left leaning not conservative.”
No TRUE Scotsman, eh?
By the by, I wonder where you would fit anarchists into your quaint little political dichotomy then?
Report Post »Tree_Butcher
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:37pm@Vox: explain to me how Socialism and Communism are labeled Left, yet National Socialism is labeled Right? And why is that view taught only in the US?
Report Post »I am not speaking of the abstract theory, but in the historical application of each. What has the impact of Communism, Socialism, and National Socialism on individuals and thus the populace when these come to power?
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:08am“@Vox: explain to me how Socialism and Communism are labeled Left, yet National Socialism is labeled Right?
Well, just because you CALL something “socialist” doesn’t MEAN anything. USUALLY, what people mean to refer to when they say “socialism” is just a vague grouping of more collectivist philosophies, USUALLY with a common theme of “public ownership of capital goods, i.e. the means of production,“ whereas ”communism“ USUALLY specifically refers to ”authoritarian socialism” or planned economies, and finally “national socialism” in PRACTICE, meant a nationalist (as opposed to cosmopolitan, a central characteristic of what is USUALLY meant by “socialism”) authoritarian government, usually pursuing an imperialist, and explicitly classist (most often racial or socioeconomic), agenda of hierachy, domination and subordination.
“And why is that view taught only in the US?”
I don‘t think that’s true, but regardless, I can’t explain why the U.S. myths of exceptionalism are what they are. That’s like asking “why is water wet?” That’s just how we understand it–doesn’t necessarily MEAN anything about its nature.
“I am not speaking of the abstract theory, but in the historical application of each. What has the impact of Communism, Socialism, and National Socialism on individuals and thus the populace when these come to power?”
Report Post »They’ve all sucked? Well, except Socialism, since that doesn’t really entail any specific political structures, in pr
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:09am*practice or theory.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:14am@The Third Archon,
“No TRUE Scotsman, eh?”
I think what he’s saying is that inasmuch as Socialism and Fascism are collectivist philosophies, they are Leftist.
A lot of Conservatives consider the “Right” to stand for smaller government and a freed market. Unfortunately, Conservatives are tricked into believing that government interventions that are intended to make it easier for certain industries or companies to make money are free market policies.
What Conservatives need to understand is that ALL government interventions, whether it be protections, subsidies, regulations, etc., end up bureaucratizing production, and therefore end up promoting some form of government/business partnership.
This is why the Marxist belief in anti-trust legislation actually leads to corporatism.
See here.
How to Reach the Left | Roderick T. Long
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hjO1ak4_M
And here.
The Vampire Economy and the Market
Report Post »http://mises.org/daily/5963/The-Vampire-Economy-and-the-Market
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:46amSo government serves no function then? Do you imagine that markets exist in a sociopolitical vacuum?
Also, Fascism, collectivist? HA! That’s rich! If by “collectivist” you mean that they “collected” the wealth of those they didn’t like to distribute to a privileged class of the “deserving REAL [insert name of nationality here].” Not only are they NOT socialist–it’s difficult to imagine a LESS socialist ideology than they EXPLICITLY classist doctrine of the fascists. Why are they considered Rightists? Because they support the status quo of hierarchical relations (or an even MORE rigid and disparate set thereof) in the society, politics, and economy of whatever nation they happen to be in. Nationalism COULDN‘T BE LESS SOCIALIST and COULDN’T BE MORE CONSERVATIVE. Fascism is swallowing, hook-line-and-sinker, the conservative myth‘s of exceptionalism told by each nation’s people. Every nation has done it throughout their history, but if we credulously and blindly deify these ideas, the road leads to fascism, tyranny, and slavery, in a stupid quest for an imagine national/racial supremacy we have bought into as ” our just desserts,” which of course such a system is the just desserts of such a belief, how ironic. Franklin was right.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:35am@The Third Archon,
“So government serves no function then? Do you imagine that markets exist in a sociopolitical vacuum?”
Our government was set up with the goal of securing individual liberty using the republican form of government to localize the vast majority of the roles of government. And to protect this form of government, obstacles to the consolidation of power were put in place; The result being that appeals to emotion as opposed to reason would be extremely difficult.
Government has a role – but not in the economy, and only to secure individual liberty, and EVEN THEN only in accordance with the people’s prescribed roles and limitations of government.
“Also, Fascism, collectivist? HA! That’s rich! If by “collectivist” you mean that they “collected” the wealth of those they didn’t like to distribute to a privileged class of the “deserving REAL [insert name of nationality here].” Not only are they NOT socialist–it’s difficult to imagine a LESS socialist ideology than they EXPLICITLY classist doctrine of the fascists.”
Here, the joke is on the Marxists; because there are classes in both. Those elected by Marxists are going to have power that the people do not.
Also, a helpful qualification is needed.
See here.
Corporatism Is Not the Free Market
Report Post »http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/03/corporatism-is-not-the-free-market/singlepage
mauijonny
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:33amDEC – nazi‘s are nazi’s. Period. The commies also got seats by about the same percent as the nazi’s.
Report Post »mauijonny
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 5:39amTHIRD – anrachism is N0 gov’t, a Dem Republic = small gov’t. To make it simpler for you, it’s like comparing a ZERO to, say, another number that’s >0. Unnerstan?
Report Post »DonaldH
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 8:16amIt only looks like “The Nazi Symbol” to the untrained eye— long story short– Yin/Yang- Good/Evil-Male/Female- Clockwise/couter-clockwise–Yadda-yadda-yadda!! It could be many things found in ancient Hinduism to ancient Troy to Native American symbols for “Circle of Life”
Report Post »raderby
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:06amhey – VOX_POPULI !! You of the caps-lock…….. I will refrain from epithets here. Know that I think them.
one more time for little VOX::::::: NAZIs are NOT far right,______(removed). Far right maybe to communists, but NOT far right. NAZIs are SOCIALISTS, and by definition, LEFTISTS.
Please wake up before you do not wake up at all.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:22amI agree with Decendent
Report Post »This multiculturalism and globalism in destroying this country and many others. Stay in the country where you were born and clean up your own damn countries instead of bringing your crap cultures and troubles over to our shores. Globalism is a fancy term that means exploit the cheapest labor force that you can and move all existing manufacturing jobs to these countries, sucking the life from them and maximizing profits at the expense of families. Bottom line, if the current group of criminal politicians and not going to get rid of the freeloaders and keep jobs in the country then they will be removed and replaced by those that will. Even if the press and others wants to call them Neo Naziz-woo, I am scared. The politicians don’t have anybody to blame but themselves.
techengineer11
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:37amdecendentof56
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:00pm
Great observation; however, the majority of Blaze readers have their heads so far up Glenn Beck’s rectum that they can neither walk talk or breath much less rationalize without orders from on high.. They wait for the Rodeo Clown to provide them some direction.
Unfortunately most are just dumb sheep as those on the left waiting to be told how to they should think. Most are completely incapable of objective unbiased reasoning.
Anyway you are absolutely correct in your observations; however, at the end of the day the Greeks and the rest of the world need to learn to live within their cash flow whether as individuals or nations.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:43amVOXIE…the national socialists in Germany in the 1930′s trumpeted “workers’ rights”. Sound familiar champ?
Report Post »FromSeaToSea
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:12pm.“lets rid this country of the stench” – This would be a good slogan in America. – No nazi doctrines, or race doctrines, but say promoted as “The Grand Knights of the Constitutional Republic”.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:26pmSo you like fascism, as long as it’s American-esque fascism?
Which, I mean… let me rephrase!
So you like fascism?
Report Post »FstEti
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:01pmVOX, please stop. Your stupidity is overwhelming. It almost makes me want to read “Dreams of My Father” for intellectual stimulation.
Report Post »FromSeaToSea
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:02pm@ vox_populi
How would “Constitutional Republic” be interpreted as “fascism”?
Report Post »Attila_the_Hunney
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:27pmThe Greeks are on to something…. they want their country back. How is that fascist? America needs to extract the cancer of multiculturalism and its ugly partner, political correctness. WWHY do we continue to bring in people who hate us and want to kill us? Repatriate all muslims, deport all illegals and send the ‘refugees’ home. America was not founded for them, and I for one– will never cede my country, culture, language or sovereignty to the barbarians.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:06pmThere cannot be Fascism… without Socialism. And, the Constitution is for Freedom & Individualism… opposing Socialism… from Nazi to Commie!
Good Thinking!
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:25pm“How would “Constitutional Republic” be interpreted as “fascism”?”
Simple–how is the “People’s Republic of China“ neither substantively a ”Republic“ nor acts in the interests of the majority of the ”People”? The same way.
You DO fascism, you CALL it a “Constitutional Republic” that’s how–and if you are favorably lauding the policies of this party and wish similar ones were adopted here, but are simply uncomfortable with the words they use to describe, well then, fascist, that’s EXACTLY what you are doing. You are destined for and deserving slavery–the only unfortunate part is that you might take a great number of innocents with you.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:31pm“The Greeks are on to something…. they want their country back. How is that fascist? America needs to extract the cancer of multiculturalism and its ugly partner, political correctness.”
Opposition to pluralism = fascism. You know, if there wasn’t diversity of culture there would be no NEED for democracy–the whole POINT of democracy is reconciling the differences.
“Repatriate all muslims”
Because they categorically hate us of course–also, that’s not religious bigoted at all.
“deport all illegals”
Because they couldn’t just come right back.
“send the ‘refugees’ home”
No idea what you are referring to here, unless you just mean to send the families of illegals with them–sins of the father, eh?
“America was not founded for them”
Report Post »On the contrary–
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:35pm“There cannot be Fascism… without Socialism.”
Wrong. Also, do you even know what those words mean? “Socialism,” most broadly, simply means “public ownership” whereas “Fascism” most broadly simply means “Statism or authoritarianism” for its own sake. The two are independent one another, neither mutually exclusive, nor mutually dependent.
“And, the Constitution is for Freedom & Individualism…”
I’m going to ASSUME you mean the U.S. one, and if so, what about the whole slavery bit, or the lack of women’s suffrage, or the property qualifications for voting? Sorry, but the real history of the world doesn’t fit your black-and-white conception of it.
“opposing Socialism… from Nazi to Commie!”
Report Post »We nearly sided with Germany in WWII.
Tree_Butcher
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:41pm@Sea:
Report Post »In Hoc Signo Vinces.
manutd0720
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:23amSeriously the third arnoch. I work around alot of refugees from Eritrea and Vietnam. They are all christians who escaped their hellhole of a country to come here and make a better life. They all learn English very quickly and become productive members of society. One of my best friends is also Cuban and thanks God everyday that she lives here. So stop pigeon holing all refugees. Not all of them are lazy good for nothings who mooch of the welfare state. Most of them do add to the betterment of our society.
Report Post »asybot12
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:45am@FSTETI I know were you are coming from but PLEASE reading that book? Now that would be real desperation Oh I also noticed the third archon is back and still has not told us who #1 and #2 are . I guess his cut and paste can’t find them..
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:37am@MANUTD0720
Report Post »I think you misunderstood my post. I was RESPONDING to ATTILA_THE_HUNNEY’s attack on refugees (among others) as “undesirables” who OUGHT be deported–I, like you probably agree, was arguing that THAT IS AWFUL. I’m a socialist–I REJECT nationalism, and while I DO agree many refugees are worth granting asylum to, in the long-run, I would like to go a step further still, to address the PROBLEMS of national divisions that CREATED the situation from which they seek refuge IN THE FIRST PLACE. It IS appropriate and humane to offer asylum to those fleeing evil, but it would be BETTER STILL if the evil were not visited upon them to BEGIN with.
socialism.rocks
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:41amanother moron the founders the pilgrims puritans the founders loathed conservatism they fled from it blasted them in the face during the revolutionary war “they were traitors”
Republicorporation is full hardy thinking the a republican form of government is not socialism~
everything con-Conservatives stands for is what the founders were against
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:42amVOXIE..so you like fascism so long as it’s socialist in complexion?
Report Post »moussiagilda
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:12pmThe news these days, especially Fox News, is absolutely nothing but silly lies. Where is the real bad news? Who is dying and unable to rise again? Who?
I have permission to leave this house every day, and do what-so-ever, until my broken arm heals and I get to move back into my apartment.
Report Post »therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:55pmThat’s because you live in the U.S. Try China, North Korea, Cuba, Iran, Libya, Syria and etc….
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:09pmYou don’t allow immigration when a large percentage of people are out of work (double digit %). the immigrants could all be blue eyed, blonde haired swedes & the nationalists would be chasing them thru the streets of Athens.
It is just a freaking law of nature. It is literally rooted in DNA & the rich power brokers think they can move people around the globe like chess pieces.
The difference could be color, morphology, religion, language or many other things. People from a few towns over, who are exactly alike in race religion & ethnicity could not be wanted in a town with high unemployment of if there is just a sudden influx of people.
People have to be invited & not just by a small group of the overall population.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 11:34amWALKABOUT..Bingo. Greece has been a homogenous society for countless centuries. They are caucasian, Greek speaking, Christian Orthodox. They’re not “italian-Greek”, “Irish-Greek”, “German-Greek“ or ”African-Greek”…they’re just Greek. They were forced to take on muslim immigrants from Albania, Afghanistan..etc through the edict of the EU. Greece could barely sustain itself and all of a sudden it’s deluged with hundreds of thousands of muslim immigrants, legal and illegal. They demand the same “rights” Greeks have while on their way to France, Germany..etc. They brought in a spike in illicit drugs and violent crime. They build mosques in Athens. This is significant as Greece is the center of the Orthodox Church. The environment is ripe for ultra-nationalists at this point. Heck..even the socialists in Greece proposed building a wall at the Turkish border.
Report Post »LANE131
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:04pmHas anyone explore the waters of greece and the greek islands for oil or natural gas yet?
Report Post »They should, it would not suprise me at all if they had both.
If they do, they 100% should pull out of the EU and drill, and sell.
Also bring in Industry, with low tax rates, weather and culture, and history of Greece, and
the greek people being over all friendly and upstanding from what i found they should have no problem bringing in intdustry, real intustry, private, not nationalize or in a socialist, communist mannor, greece could become the jewel of Europe
They of course would have to tell the evnironmental wacko (who are really commies) to sit down and lets the grown ups handle things fpr a while.
TexasSurvivor
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:27pmThat’s just great. And what happens with these political extremist parties when Europe’s economy collapses? Well the Weimar Republic is a perfect example.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:18pmAnd… remember… Hitler started out by blaming German Traitors for their defeat in WWI…
Report Post »Daveed
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:19pmI don’t think he is Hitler. I think he is a Nationalist. He is tired of the redistribution of Greeks wealth that sent Greece into the crap-per. He thinks Greeks and their nation deserve better and the redistribution of rights going to the the immigrants which are a drain on the Greece economy, sovreignty and the attack on Greek Culture while immigrants scream for extra protection for their cultures to flourish. I am sure this Greek wants Greek rule in Greece and Greek culture. He has just as much right if not more, to demand and fight for his country. If the one way to get peace and Greek back, is to send the immigrants back to their own country, the Greek culture as it was is just as important to Greeks as it is just as important to Americans and just as important to the Asians and so on and so on. Americans are fed up on the forced upon us millions of illegal aliens streaming by the tunnels and trucks fulls. It is too big of a drain and it is taking its toll on services, small businesses, hospitals, jails, jobs away from the indigenous Greeks/Americans/Europe/Brits. Bridget Bardoe is right. McCarthy was right. Our Founding Fathers were right. The global elitist are in the minority and the people of the world are tired of their games. Let everybody have their own culture in their own country.
Report Post »therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:41pm“I don’t think he is Hitler.”
Read ‘Mein Kampf’, this guy has.
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:19pmThat pretty much sums it up for here too!! The illegal has recieved a ton of free everything.. welfare, medical, foodstamps, home loans and business loans! Without ever putting a crying dime into the system! And our corrupt government has allowed it to happen! The question is… we know Obama will continue doing the same thing.. if Romney becomes president, what will he do? Personally, I think the American and I mean legal American’s should vote on it. I am tired of America helping the world, when we all know that the money never gets to the people, just corrupt beauracrats! Lord help us!
Report Post »MCDAVE
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:55pmThere is no freedom for Greece in the EU…same as us under our present leadership…This may be a choice for North Carolina and other states http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/declaration-of-secession/
Report Post »UNIX_Techie
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:12pmI could not agree more.
Report Post »chicago76
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:09pmEvery country has the right and duty to protect its people, property, and its culture from invaders. If the people in this blog can’t figure that out then I want your name and address so I can kick you out of your home and live there myself. So I can take your wives and daughters and sons away and make them slaves. That is what this is all about.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:15pm“They slandered us, slung mud at us, and shut us out of all the news media – the TV channels of the corrupt elite – and we beat them,” the 55-year-old leader said as the votes came in.” Sounds familiar….
Report Post »TRILO
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:13pmGreece is just the tip of the iceburg. Look at what happend in France. Spain is even more in debt trouble than Greece.
The globalists are playing a dangerous game. All the while our politicians (including the useless Republicans) just continue to kick the can down the road and the stock market pretends all is well in OZ.
This is not going to end well for anyone.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:16pmThe EU has a debt to GDP ratio of 86%….America has a debt to GDP ratio of 99%
The EU has a per capita debt of $27,000….America’s is $47,000
The only thing keeping us afloat is that the other people in the world are hoarding our dollars. If they change their mind, we are done
Report Post »Inlightofthings
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:50amSOYBOMB:
I think we’re past that…plus or minus but you can check my #’s and math…
$15.7 T debt / $14.9 T GDP = 105%
To think just 3.5 years ago:
$9.5 T debt / $14.7 T GDP = 65%
4 more years of this and we’ll be:….
Report Post »$21 T debt / $15 T GDP = 140%
….which is about when our income no longer even covers interest.
lukerw
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:12pmEuropeans absolutely believe in Socialism… as a matter of Faith. So, when it Fails, as it always does… it must be because of Traitors alike Judas!
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:21pmYes. They don’t understand that “ people in the wagon” analogy. They , like the Obama Democrats, believe in the Magic Money Tree….well, that and the hate-based “ soak the evil rich ” business !
Report Post »friedclouds
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 1:03am@shy….why would the Greeks burn down a Syrian city?
Report Post »ShyLow
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:06pmI plan on making Greece one big tourist attraction with roads only built for atv’s…if your not an off-road enthuisist you probably won’t like the place very much…there will be tilt rotor aircraft to fly you to the different resorts if you do not want to travel by horse,atv,or dual-sport motorcycle
Report Post »ShyLow
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:19pmcity dwellers,will probably get jealous of the new Greece and burn down Damascus
Report Post »kcinco
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:04pmI don‘t know this party’s true intent, but I don’t blame them for wanting to keep radical muslims and other such riff raff out of their government and country. I want that for the United States too! But not at the expense of being run by an insane fundamentalist of any sort.
Report Post »Mil-Dot
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:03pmNews Flash pal:
Report Post »It is going to take an “insane fundamentalist” mentality to make stuff like that happen. What? Do you think if you keep voting for the same criminals that caused this mess that they will eventually get it right? Idiot.
JustJason
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:59pmMust be the liberal reporter for diversity at the blaze. Call it national socialism or fascism please. Reporter here framing it in left commie socialism and right nationalism fascism discussion, assuming that everyone must be a socialist of some kind. Must be an ivy league grad. WTH
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:59pmThe NAZIs were Nationalists too. NATIONAL Socialist Worker’s Party.
As for the global loan sharks. Fine. Let Greece isolate themselves from them. Every time a Greek sets foot in a country to whom Greece owes money, the Greek person’s assets will all be seized and sold at auction for settlement of debt. Every export of the Greek Nation-state shall be seized whenever it leaves Greek borders and waters. Let Greece truly stand alone.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:21pmIt only takes 50% (+1 more individual) to vote in Socialists who promise that which is not actuarially not feasible.
I don;t think it is right nor is it legal to take the assets of a person, who might have voted anti-Socialist repeatedly.
Now if you want to take away the assets of people like Papandreou or some other bread & circuses politicians. I am all for that.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:58pmSoon to be coming to America if Obama has his way with this country.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:01pmWait, why does Obama want neo-Nazi factions to gain power?
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:16pmVOX Obama : I think she was referring to the “revolution” that all of the anti-capitalist rhetoric and the anti-capitalist Occupies are aimed at creating. You know that “ American Autumn ” revolution that the Left is hoping to create…
Report Post »usedCZARsalesman
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:22pmVOX…Its so funny how liberals prove their complete lack of debate skills/insight EVERY SINGLE TIME they open their mouths. You know what SNOW means and the fact that you framed it the way you did just shows your intellectual dishonesty. Anyone that doesn’t see how liberal fiscal policy is putting this country on the EXACT same track as Greece and the rest of EU is simply to stupid to even reason with
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:07pm“You know what SNOW means and the fact that you framed it the way you did just shows your intellectual dishonesty.”
lolwut?
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:43pm“VOX Obama : I think she was referring to the “revolution” that all of the anti-capitalist rhetoric and the anti-capitalist Occupies are aimed at creating. You know that “ American Autumn ” revolution that the Left is hoping to create…”
And that has WHAT to do with neo-Nazis exactly? You DO know the Nazi Germany didn’t abolish capitalism right (that is to say, private individuals owning capital goods)?
“Anyone that doesn’t see how liberal fiscal policy is putting this country on the EXACT same track as Greece and the rest of EU is simply to stupid to even reason with.”
Report Post »Well that would be DIFFICULT, considering that most of the EU ISN’T on the same “liberal fiscal policy as the U.S.” (which I don’t know how you construe a “stimulus” package where the majority of the expenditure is in tax cuts as “liberal” but whatever), but rather adopted the OPPOSITE policy of severe austerity–guess how that’s working out for them? Oh, incidentally, when you’ve drastically shrunk the government expenditures as a share of GDP, as well as eliminated transfers to consumers, AGGREGATE DEMAND DROPS, and SURPRISE SURPRISE, the economy withers and you debt as a share of GDP actually gets BIGGER because you shrunk your economy. Way to go geniuses. So not only does Europe NOT prove your point, it actually DISPROVES your point.
ThaBigPerm
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:31amVOX:
Report Post »Well that would be DIFFICULT, considering that most of the EU ISN’T on the same “liberal fiscal policy as the U.S.” (which I don’t know how you construe a “stimulus” package where the majority of the expenditure is in tax cuts as “liberal” but whatever), but rather adopted the OPPOSITE policy of severe austerity–guess how that’s working out for them? Oh, incidentally, when you’ve drastically shrunk the government expenditures as a share of GDP, as well as eliminated transfers to consumers, AGGREGATE DEMAND DROPS, and SURPRISE SURPRISE, the economy withers and you debt as a share of GDP actually gets BIGGER because you shrunk your economy. Way to go geniuses. So not only does Europe NOT prove your point, it actually DISPROVES your point.
****************************
Not quite. Government going on a diet only craters an economy dependent on government spending. When huge sectors of your economy are actually government departments, and huge swaths of the population are in fact government employees, cutting government spending in an attempt to ward off a sovereign debt crisis *does* result in mass economic pain. In a free market economy (or at least a market closer to free than in Europe) government cutbacks don’t really affect the average citizen unless they are one of the few working for the government. Case in point, our government has “shut down” several times over budget squabbling … most people didn’t notice.
The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 1:16amIf you are referring to the last time the government was shut down, under Newt Gingrich when the Republicans controlled the legislature in the 90′s, if you’ll RECALL, immediately following that, they lost the legislature–I wouldn’t exactly say “most people didn’t notice.”
The problem with the distinction between government and private spending is that its an arbitrary one–and there‘s no reason to think that private investment can’t be just as wasteful, ESPECIALLY when its carried out by corporations “too big to fail.” It is a false dichotomy, and empirically false, to assert that government spending is categorically bad and/or wasteful, while private spending is categorically good and/or efficient. The real world is far more complicated.
Report Post »usedCZARsalesman
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 9:44amok, THIRD, I’m trying to wrap my brain around all this. You form arguments like you are intelligent, but the arguments themselves are anything but. Are YOU a socialist? What would YOU like to see here/elsewhere? All I see you doing is trying to shoot others down without any counter points as to how it “should” be done in your world.
p.s. the reason the EU is going in the opposite direction right now is because they went in the SAME DIRECTION but just happen to be a few decades ahead of us…it’s a funny thing when you leeches suck off the teet of the wealthy/hard working/successful until it’s all dried up and there is nothing left…the even FUNNIER (or just sad) thing is to watch pathetic socialist losers continue to blame those same “1%” all the way to the bottom even as it becomes more and more obvious that it is the LEECHES destroying this country and definitely NOT the leeched
Report Post »ThaBigPerm
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 10:11amARCHON:
The gov’t has been shut down numerous times, not just under a Gingrich House. And I’m referring to the fact that a government shut-down does not result in a pay cut or economic pain for the vast majority of people (as opposed to Europe where about half are government employees owing to just about everything being sucked up into government as a “public service”). That‘s not to say that one party or the other can’t work their constituents up into a lather for the next election. And the distinction between private/government spending is not an arbitrary one. In the private sector, there is competition; in government there is not – it is a monopoly, and further can fine and/or jail you for not dancing to their tune. I’ll let you know when Ford arrests me and seizes my assets for failure to buy a new Ford this year. On the other hand, my tax money (rather, claims on future tax revenue by way of going further into debt) was seized to give to GM/Chrysler/various TBTF banks. And no company can crown themselves TBTF and seize your money and mine. That must be granted by the government (TARP, etc). In a free market, there is no such thing as “too big to fail”. No has anybody suggested that private spending is always sugar and spice and everything nice … you said that. But in a free market, those who screw up fail. In this quasi-fascist government we have now (have had for some time, pre-Obama) the failures are bailed out if politically connected. Good
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:49pmI’m confused….did both the right and left extremes both gain seats?
http://www.france24.com/en/20120506-angry-voters-greek-ruling-parties-pasok-new-democracy-austerity-legislative-parliament-elections
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:00pmYeah. Greeks are increasingly turning to more extremist factions to express the frustrations with government and the economy. The “Coalition of the Radical Left” is likely to lead the next Greek parliament.
Report Post »Inlightofthings
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 8:14pmYup. It‘s pretty clear they aren’t happy with anyone telling them that retiring at the age of 48 after 23 years of service and living off the government teet until they die will lead to bankruptcy. Seems to be a parallel between the unions and the greeks on that front…VOX…you are clearly very young.
Report Post »FstEti
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 9:57pmVOX, you wouldn’t be the OWS moronic leader who appeared on Hannity last week, would you? Your naive comments appear to echo that mental midget. God, I hope there aren’t TWO of you out there that are that stupid.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:43pm@FSTETI
Sorry, I’m a bit lost – what did I say that was naive? I thought I was just giving a normative description of what’s occurring in Greek politics.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 11:54pm“Yup. It‘s pretty clear they aren’t happy with anyone telling them that retiring at the age of 48 after 23 years of service and living off the government teet until they die will lead to bankruptcy”
There’s no reason that inherently leads to democracy–it’s entirely POSSIBLE that a state might decide to raise taxes and pay for a public retirement plan. So long as expenditures does not exceed revenue by more than the rate of inflation, there’s no reason, ceteris paribus, why such a situation wouldn’t be sustainable.
OPTIMAL or DESIRABLE, is another matter altogether, and THAT is subjective values debate. But the point is that your reasoning is flawed–there’s no NECESSITY that a generous system of public retirement would end in bankruptcy, assuming that revenues were raised to pay for it.
Now perhaps the specific instance WASN’T executed properly, I don‘t know enough about the nuances of Greece’s social policy to be sure, but that‘s DIFFERENT than saying it COULDN’T have been executed properly, i.e. revenues COULDN’T be raised to pay for it, which, WHY NOT? I assume the policy costs SOMETHING, and thus theoretically a sufficiently rich state could pay that price if it so choose–it’s not a question of whether or not Greece had at any point the CAPACITY to do such a thing, which you neither prove nor disprove, but rather whether or not it is CONCEPTUALLY possible. You ASSERT it isn’t, but don’t have a justification as to WHY.
Report Post »Inlightofthings
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:38amTHIRDARCHON:
Report Post »Like I said in another post:
“This may go over some heads…but we are not headed toward Europe as much as we already are what the plight of the Euro represents.”
mildot rider
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:48pmSad to say…but coming soon to a city near you.
Report Post »mattintexas
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:45pmBy the way…..That was sarcasm!
Report Post »therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:50pmSorry
Report Post »mattintexas
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:37pmCan he run for office in the United States of America? I mean, if a Kenyan/Indonesian muslim can win office, then surely there is a place for this guy.
Report Post »mattintexas
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:40pmBy the way……that was sarcasm!
Report Post »therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:47pmHell NO!
Report Post »Watchingtheweasels
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 7:29amDon‘t think you’d be happy with him in the white house. He’s a national SOCIALIST. Obama is an international SOCIALIST.
Now Geert Wilders, the fellow from Holland that Glen had on GBTV the other day? I’d take him as president in a minute.
Report Post »friedclouds
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:46amI liked your post better without the disclaimer.
Report Post »cassandra
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:35pmhe sounds just like Hitler, this won’t end well for Greece, these people need some history books pronto
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:44pmhitler’s facist government was able to take power because the people of germany were tired of the rest of the world punishing them economically. The nationalist argument was easy for him to make.
When greece joined the euro, they gave up the ability to print money and they became slaves to the big euro economies. Once again, the nationalist argument is easy for him to make when foreigners are controlling your economy.
so yeah, history is repeating – and we are well underway
Report Post »therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:02pm@soy
Excellent post
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 4:11amGood post, Soy.
This whole thing sent a nasty chill down my spine.
Report Post »friedclouds
Posted on May 8, 2012 at 12:43amMaybe so,but the lazy, pampered Greeks, with no industry to speak of will have a hard time imitating the heavily industrial Germany of the early 20th century. Might be funny to watch /sarc off
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:35pmThis group is a hard line Neo NAZI organization steeped in racism, violence and anti semitism, look it up….way to pick ‘em Greece…. enjoy your continued slide into financial depression and self inflicted Socialistic misery.
Report Post »S. Dakers
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:33pmOkay, Blaze. Wake up. The “Far Right” in this article is an iteration of National Socialism. Don’t believe me? Ask Glenn.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 10:18pmFar right in Europe is much more left wing than far right in America.
Report Post »the_united_states_of_britain
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 2:55pmsorry git but youre wrong…
the right wing in europe is centrist, but the far right in europe would put your american far right parties to shame.
Report Post »TexasIndependant
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:32pmSo let me get this straight, the Muslims are now called Asians in France? Interesting description of someone from the middle east. In America we think of Asians as being China Japan or the Orient. Think the writer was just a tad bit biased in this description?
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:09pm1. This is Greece, not France.
Report Post »2. “Asians” referring to Asia Minor, the Turkish peninsula.
ForMyKidsVA
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:44pmActually VOX, if you read international news you will find that “Asian” is most definitely used to replace “Muslim” in all the euro countries.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 7, 2012 at 12:17am“Actually VOX, if you read international news you will find that “Asian” is most definitely used to replace “Muslim” in all the euro countries.”
Umm…yeah, that’s his POINT…what exactly are you contesting?
That their racism is descriptively inaccurate? Race is descriptively arbitrary–big surprise there.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:26pmi hope greece dumps the euro – thereby strengthening everyone else. You know if the euro fails our FED and politicians will bail them out
Report Post »socialism.rocks
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:39pmyou blind idiot american banks shorted with hedge funds greece.. guess who owns the debt american not to big to fail banks goldman sachs bank of america when they default those big banks will collapse and nothign the fed can do to stop it
Report Post »Welcome to economic warfare 2.0 first the capitalists who shorted them and demand austerity are going to pay big time
they are going to default and nationalize then go through austerity–screwing th3 not to big to fail banks
therealconservative
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:54pm@socialismsucks
In truth it has been Europe’s embrace of socialism that has led that the edge of the cliff, just like every other socialist/communist experiment.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:55pm@SOCIALISM…
Report Post »You really have No Clue: SOROS and Open Society Socialists are destroying the EU… to make Capitalism fail in the US… where the Ends justify the Means!
soybomb315
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 6:55pmso it is better for the euro to bail out greece forever? That weakens the euro and banks as well.
There are no good options, but cutting greece loose sends the message that irresponsibility will no longer be tolerated – and there would be a slim chance the euro survives. The alternative is enslavement, but i wouldnt expect a socialism supporter to understand that
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on May 6, 2012 at 7:30pm@Socialism….In the same way that a Ponzi scheme or chain letter initially succeeds but eventually collapses, socialism may show early signs of success. But any accomplishments quickly fade as the fundamental deficiencies of central planning emerge. It is the initial illusion of success that gives government intervention its pernicious, seductive appeal. In the long run, socialism has always proven to be a formula for tyranny and misery.
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