John McCain on Senate Floor: Claims Torture Didn’t Lead to Bin Laden
- Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:36pm by
Billy Hallowell
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In an op-ed for the Washington Post yesterday, Sen. John McCain called Osama bin Laden’s death “welcome,” yet he once again took a definitive stance against enhanced interrogation techniques. He wrote:
Much of this debate is a definitional one: whether any or all of these methods constitute torture. I believe some of them do, especially waterboarding, which is a mock execution and thus an exquisite form of torture. As such, they are prohibited by American laws and values, and I oppose them.
Despite his opposition to waterboarding and the like, McCain used the platform to reiterate his belief that no one should be “…prosecuted for having used [enhanced] techniques.” He made it clear that he believes the Obama administration should pledge not to charge anyone involved.
Earlier today, McCain appeared on the Senate floor to further discuss these issues (watch the video above). Again, he tackled the moral conundrum that he believes waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques pose, while delving into the accuracy of the information yielded through these mechanisms:
“I sincerely believe that torture…is…unworthy and injurious to our country. I believe the abuse of prisoners harms, not helps, our war efforts…In my experience, the abuse of prisoners sometimes produces good intelligence; it often produces bad intelligence…a person will say anything his captors hear…if he believes it will alleviate his suffering.”
McCain claims that these harsh methods did not lead the United States to bin Laden and that the information he’s received from CIA Director Leon Panetta directly contradicts claims that the U.S. benefited from enhanced techniques. However, last week, Panetta seemed to indicate that these methods did play at least some role in the information gathering that led to bin Laden.
Others, including potential presidential candidate Donald Trump and former vice-president Dick Cheney, have credited these controversial techniques for their role in capturing and killing bin Laden.
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Comments (234)
Dustyluv
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:02pmNo they made the terrorist look at his daughter Naked….They gave up the info fast with that torture.
Report Post »Gypsy123
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:00pmRino Out ! Teaparty In!
Report Post »Eric_The_Red_State
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:17pmHigh Five that too
Report Post »toledofan
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:59pmI think that, regardless of what he say’s, and I’m sure he speaks from some experience, today is different that previous times and these enhanced interrogations, even if they produced some results, have to be considered to be effective. Regardless, even if we think we have these higher standards, we know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the extremist Muslims will cut your head off in a heartbeat or will do whatever it takes to kill as many Americans as possible. So, we have to be strong, forcefull and get whatever information we can to protect our soldiers, citizens, and yes, our politicans. I don’t know, maybe I’m off base, but, I’d rather get some information rather than none and honestly if someone is willing to do nothing they should bare the responsibility of when things go wrong and be held to account.
Report Post »knockered
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:58pmhe really needs to worry more about and speak out about all the illegals that are entering his state from our poorly guarded border.
Report Post »amerbur
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:57pmHe should know, he has been there. I wonder what he would do if he believed someone had planted a nuke. I am sorry. I want someone that has a little common sense. Water Boarding only scares the individual, it does not actually hurt them, does it? The Bush administration judicial branch did not difine water boarding as torture. If a nuke has been planted and we need informtion or we are looking for a murderer of 3000 people, I do not want a President bringing the terrorist cookies and milk and asking nicely. I do not trust McCain’s judgement for the big stuff, sorry.
Report Post »rocker98
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:56pmI hope this state wakes up and gets rid of this “Republican” Progressive next time. He’s the biggest reason I became an independent after (I just realized just how ******* old I am!) 35 years. Don‘t say John McCain in my mom’s house. It’s like a hydrogen gas explosion. Devastates the neighborhood.
Report Post »drago
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:55pmThis commie traitor, needs to sthu……
Report Post »EP46
Posted on May 14, 2011 at 5:09amI believe more and more the reports out a few months ago that he, along with some other Senators, have been brainwashed. He has gone beyond RHINO…he is like a different person in the same body.
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:54pmHey anyone watching the cop-killer using cops as props to speechify ?
Report Post »TheGreyPiper
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:54pmI agree that the US should be above torture.
“Enhanced interrogation techniques” are not torture.
Report Post »let us prey
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:02pmI think that is correct.
Report Post »On The Bayou
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:48pmWell then lets lets upgrade to something that is torture, being friendly to people who want to die is stupid. What do they have to loose if death is what they truely want.
Report Post »Oldphoto678
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:22pmKinda funny that when we do it it’s not torture, but when the same things were done to Americans in N. Korea it was torture.
Report Post »TheGreyPiper
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:51pmPlease BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN this idiot!!!!!!!!
Report Post »TheGreyPiper
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:22pmThat was in regard to the epic spammings appearing earlier. Looks like they’re gone, hopefully that jerk is too.
Report Post »lindathepatriot
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:51pmIf torturing enemy combatants will get information to save American lives like it has been proven in the past, then I am for it. I don’t want our country to have a soft heart for those who are committed to chopping our heads off.
Report Post »rose-ellen
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:41pmThey fight with what the have against our tyranical propping up of dictators and against our invasions and occupations.We”ve beein commiting mass murder there for over 60 years.How dare they fight back! We didn’t expect them to upset our apple cart of dominating the people there through our proxy dictators for our greedy economic[oil] interests and our political interests.They brought us to the knowledge that for the first time there were consequences in our world [terrorism[ for our actions in their world [propping up the expansionist racist state of Israel and dictatorial agents that hurt them over there].Terrorism is a tactic used by the weak to make us aware of our harmful dictatorial policies when we enacted with the total disregard for how the people there would be impacted .Only our interests mattered in implementing them-terrorist awakens us to the fact that other people -even weak people exist and will assert their legitimate rights to not be dominatedby our agents.
Report Post »WhassupWiDat
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:51pmAs far as McCain goes? They got rid of the wrong ‘Tumor’…
Report Post »TheGreyPiper
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:53pm“It’s not a toomah!”
Report Post »code green
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:50pmGive McCain credit for his wartime sacrifice. That is all though. Just because he is a hero ,doesn’t exempt him from being terrible .
Report Post »Thanks for nothing Arizona .
Juan Gault
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:11pmHero? Or a victim of being a prisoner of war? Water boarding, as shown in video, is an enhanced investigative technique, which lasts usually less than 20 seconds. Not pleasant, but not harmful as in physical torture.
Report Post »Ballgame
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:50pmJohn McCain than you for your service and sacrifice. That being said, “RINO”!!!
Report Post »the hawk
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:49pmMcCain tortured us last election not having the will to really get tough on obumer!
Report Post »IAMMADDOG
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:20pmHe gave us Meagan. I’d rather be waterboarded than listen to her spew the rot that comes out of her airhead mouth.
Report Post »ablisterin
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:08pmI’m with you Immadog. If she gets any more air in that head she’ll surely explode.
Report Post »REETZBEE
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:16pmIt killed me to vote for McCain but we had no other choice. Why doesn‘t he worry about securing the boarder in his own state that he’s represented for God only knows how long. I‘m so sick of all these politicians who’ve screwed this country up.
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:49pmWhat the heck is this person talking about and why is it relevant?
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:49pmFriggin’ RINO.
How this arm-chair politician continues to get re-elected baffles the mind.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:54pmI was just thinking of all the latest sayings that got used and abused over the years that I absolutely HATE to this day, I‘m glad there’s one acronym that I’ll probably never tire of – RINO!!!
May they all die off quickly (no, not literally, figuratively, so relax with the “Delete Post” button.).
Report Post »Rob
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:37pmExtinction.
Report Post »let us prey
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:48pmA broken old man. I respect McCain for his service, but this guy needs to enjoy his life on a boat fishing or drinking mai tai’s with his old lady.
Report Post »I found this poem for John McShame
written by Ms. Dostoevsky
I lost it all
I am a broken man
Even though I did my best
And I did all that I can
The world has chewed me up
And it has spit me out
Now I am nothing but a shell
Doomed to wonder this lonely world
My own endless hell
psst
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:48pmSoetoro will dump Joe Kinnock or is it Neil Biden for his 2nd run.
Report Post »It is rumoured that Juan McCain will be his choice as running mate.
Susan Harkins
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:48pmMcCain, go back to Soros — you’ve been used up.
Report Post »libbsrnuts
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:45pmWhat a moron! Used to like the guy, too. At least he’s spot on about not prosecuting the CIA operatives.
Report Post »and to the republic
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:45pmMcCain needs to apologize to the American people. Because of him, we have BHO. Shame on you John McCain…
Report Post »Eric_The_Red_State
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:16pmHigh Five to that.
His INACTIONS were an indication that he was a SHILL for the DEMOCRATIC party.
BYE BYE JOHN -
Report Post »RLTW
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:29pmAgreed, it’s sad to see JM being used as Obama’s sock puppet in matters of torture.
Report Post »rose-ellen
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:31pmA man with a conscience.A rare sight indeed in the american media-government genocidal anti-Muslim propaganda machine.That it is rare to hear an american say he‘s against torture underscores how americans are the most dangerous people on the planet and the nazi’s of the 21st century.
Report Post »and to the republic
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:44pm@ roseellen: Americans are only dangerous when ya mess with us. Leave us alone, dont fly planes into our buildings, stop attacking us, and we will be your best friend. Otherwise, pay the consequences.
Report Post »ablisterin
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:05pmRose-Ellen, your as gullible as they come.
Report Post »chfields62
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:22pm@rose-ellen
Report Post »You are so deep in the koolaid that you are drowning, if you think this country is so bad why don;t you move your a%$ to the middle east, I’m sure they will welcome you with open arms……
Redhandpaddy
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:44pmAmerica would have been better served had McCain never returned from Viet Nam. All he has been is a delayed reaction Stockholm Syndrome sufferer that consistently a$$ kisses enemies of America, to wit, Feingold, Obama and all the Democrats sitting on the other side of the aisle.
Report Post »I Luv America
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:56pmYou are so correct. I am an independent and did not vote for McCain in 2008 because of his many flaws and his similarity to G.W. Bush (another politician I absolutely hate). I will regret until the day I die that I decided to take a risk and vote for Obama.
Report Post »avenger
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 6:31pmyou bet…this dope muzzled SARAH and lost !
Report Post »Revere1
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:44pmThe only torture is listening to McCain sound like a RINO for the hundredth time. http://www.elephantwatcher.com/2011/05/after-bin-laden-should-republicans-be.html
Report Post »lgccac
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:43pmDon’t let the media choose our candidate for 2012 like they did with this guy. Choose our next candidate based on doing the right thing for America. God, country, family …
Report Post »Mannax
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:49pmMcCain is a RINO. Yes, Mr. McCain we thank you for your military service, now it is time for you to be a good Veteran and fade quietly into the background and let a good honest conservative come in.
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:55pmWhat does one do when he’s one of the few left on the ticket, by the time it gets to your state? I didn’t vote for this RINO in the primary, but had no choice in November.
Report Post »Does it surprise anyone that McShame would speak out against water-boarding?
Ballgame
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:08pm@LGCCAC, You couldn’t be any more correct. Look at how Herman Cain is being bashed by the left and disregarded by the established right.
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:15pmBallGame: All the more reason to vote for H Cain. If neither side likes him he must be good.
Report Post »Louie Louie the Progressive
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:20pmMichael Mukasey would have made a Kapo that Hither would have been proud of!
Report Post »BIGJAYINPA
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:23pmHey Big John Rino.. What do you mean torture doesn’t work?? They broke you didn’t they?? I don’t hold with the sort of treatment they gave you but Waterboarding and other EIM should be in the toolbag to be used as needed but with very careful and complete oversight…Just sayin’.
Report Post »greggor
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:26pmMcCain.. of course, you are entitled to your opinion. I’m just curious as to wonder why you think any of us give a damn about it. The fact is, because YOU somehow “won” the republican primary in 2007, we were saddled with the worst, most corrupt, most disgusting president in the history of our country.
Report Post »John.. go F yourself..
dealer@678
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:26pmHis daughter Meagan has gotten into his head
Report Post »GONESURFING
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:32pmJohn McCain, just go away and shut up already.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:35pmJohn McCain is Obama light ..
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 2:51pmOf course he does – and it‘s because it’s personal having survived as a POW for 7 years. Just let this one go. But he is a RINO in every other way
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:00pmI realize Mr. McCain has been thru torture but I can’t help but think about how these men would show no mercy in the terrorist acts against western people.
I applaud you for your service Representative McCain, in the military and as a representative, but I just don’t think I can support you in this viewpoint.
Report Post »ablisterin
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:00pmAs far as I can tell, the whole McCain family has gone looney. A bunch of bumblin’ bimbos.
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:04pmRe McCain being the nominee & then losing — not only the media involved – probably the Dems. Check out the interviews done with an anonymous WH insider operative about what has and is really going on. No, can’t prove it is true but I think most probable:
Report Post »http://newsflavor.com/politics/us-politics/white-house-insider-eric-holder-is-gonna-fall/
According to him, they “caused” the economic crash at that time on purpose bc McCain was ahead mostly bc of his military experience, etc. They changed that dynamic with the crash – on purpose. ???? Also, other interesting tidbits about the rest of the WH people.
Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:08pmYet we will still be tortured and killed while we refuse to look after our defense and protect this country……
Report Post »chfields62
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:17pmI respect the fact that McCain survived the torture he had to endure and didn’t give in and go home when offered the chance, that makes him a hero in my book. I can also understand why he’s against torture, but there’s a difference between torture (like he endured) and enhanced interrogation techniques. No one died or suffered irreparable harm from EIT and the intelligence that was produced is irrefutable. Does it always work…No, but it does more often than not and if it saves lives we should embrace it.
I am very dissapointed with McCains politics, he needs to step down and keep his crazy progressive ideas to himself.
Report Post »GayDem4Beck
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:25pmMcCain is in his last term, he’s going back to his progressive agenda.
Report Post »jeffyfreezone
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:26pmI don’t believe water boarding is torture. Cutting off ears is torture. How can we tell the difference? Reporters have voluntarily been water boarded. Have any stepped up for ear removal???????
Report Post »mill
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:27pmMcCain is a war hero…not a good American anymore.
He needs to kiss my white pasty @$$ and leave town.
WE CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT ALLOW THE MSM AND LEFT LIBERALS TO PICK WHO RUNS FOR REPUBLICAN PARTY!!!! They did it wil McCain and look what happened.
Report Post »Lotus503
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:36pmMcCain is a wild-eyed crazy. We certainly had quite a choice in the last election, didn’t we?
Report Post »Clive
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 3:43pmbut cheney and trump, etc. were all wrong… torture didn’t give us ANY of the intel we needed to kill osama. people being tortured, will say anything to stop the torture. you don’t get good intel from it. you chase down a bunch of bad leads, you waste time, etc.
Besides, as a christian nation, we should be above it anyhow.
Report Post »Okie from Muskogee
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:01pmI bet if you water boarded McCain he would say different…
Retire John, we are tired of you..You lie, your policies are so inconsistent you do not even know what you think and your embarrassing to our nation…Retire and go away, please…For honors sake…
Report Post »SavingtheRepublic.com
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:09pmWell what can you do when it looks like right now they are pushing Romney on us along with the other RINO dolts. I dont want any of them as for McCaine THANK YOU AZ voters for the constant re-electing of this RINO progressive. Now not only do we have to deal with his nausea we have to hear from his self admitted progressive no talent, inexperienced pain in the azz daughter!
Oh Johnny PROVE info obtained from hairy back guy and the others was false! Im tired of this back and forth my new motto is PROVE IT. Tired of the here say by all these know it alls and I mean cmon McCaine was tortured for how many year, of course he will be against waterboarding!
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:18pmI respct him immensely for his service and for what he suffered on behalf of America. But he makes three errors:
1. Waterboarding DOES work. There is the mistaken impression that a prisoner could just tell the interrogators anything. Lying is hard to keep up. The truth is always the easiest to tell because the story doesn’t change. Unlike the tortures of the Inquisition and other Judicial uses of it, the interrogators aren’t after confessions but information. They won‘t be satisfied with a quick answer if it doesn’t ring true or pan out.
2. Waterboarding isn’t harmful. Many US Seals undergo it in their training. It isn’t like putting and eye out or breaking on the wrack. McCain was permanently injured by what the Communist Vietnamese did to him. That kind of tortue has nothing to do with the enhanced interrogation methods used by the CIA, though that critical distinction is constantly blurred or ignored.
3. Terrorists aren’t legal combatants. there is no honor in their methods. Normal soldiers are just following orders or their nation, a nation that can be targeted. To honor captured terrorists as if they were good soldiers is to mistake the rules of the game. They operate by no rules, and therefore deserve none of the protections of the rules. To give them that protection anyways is to effectively reward them for being illegal combatants.
Report Post »Secret Squirrel
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:37pm….
Report Post »Did McCain suffer a blow to the head and I didn’t read about it?
He, of all people, knows enhanced interrogation works.
Sinista MACE
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:39pmThis Rino is flip-flopping like a fish out of water.
Report Post »DarthVader
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:42pmTorture is UnAmerican. If you think America should run around and torture everyone they think might have information, then you need to move outta here. Are you Christian? Is torture Christian? I for one don’t want our JUSTICE system (see the word “Justice”) devolve into police state tactics.
Report Post »jhaydeng
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 4:56pmI’m counting the days when he changes parties!
Report Post »avenger
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 5:05pmthis ***** cannot ever get it right ! time to retire this bozo to help the wife run the beer biz…..
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 5:08pm“Are you Christian? Is torture Christian? I for one don’t want our JUSTICE system….”
Ist Darth, I don’t call enhanced interrogation torture. 2nd, the military isn’t Christian. nethir is the police. Christ did not go arresting anyone. But that doesn‘t mean that Christians can’t serve a secular state in its pursuit of justice and the defense of its people. 3rd, only an idiot would consider the capture and treatment of foreign terrorists part of our Judicial system. We don’t give civil trials to POWs who are legal combatants. Why then should weput ILLEGAL combatants through the civil legal process?
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 5:11pm“Look at how Herman Cain is being bashed by the left and disregarded by the established right.”
Ballgame, Cain just got a lengthy and positive review in National Review Online. People are starting to pay attention to him.
Report Post »Showtime
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 5:48pmMcCain would do well to pack up and go back home to Arizona. He has served the country. Now he is damaging it.
Report Post »Devil Dog 7175
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 5:53pmThank you for your service… but… SCREW you “JUAN” Mccain! After pulling the lever for you this last election, I had to rush out the door and hurl! You were just the lesser of two evils… Maveric my azz… GD RINO.
Report Post »harvbell
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 6:15pmI agree. How did we ever allow this guy to blow the election for the republican party? I wonder who the media is going to pick for us the next time.
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 7:43pmThank you Senator McPain for your service to our country. NOW, go! Retire. Write a couple of books or something, but get out of the way so a conservative can have the seat you occupy…
Report Post »Dandylyon
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 8:12pmKeep talking you Soros shill.
McCain has gone beyond being a RINO,look at his back ground and see who has put money in his campaign in 2000 or 2004 I’m not sure.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 8:15pmMcCain is losing it.
Report Post »DarthVader
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 9:02pm@Islesfordian
1. You are a sucker. You mentally sponge into the thought process and language of people that justify torture who call it “Enhanced Interrogation”. Anyone that has been actually tortured, a la Mccain, or people that have had water boarding done to them, Ventura, Hitchens, all call it torture. So, you get back to me when you have it done to you and tell me it’s not torture.
2. The point is, America should have high standards. If torture was a good thing, why don’t we have it in our system. There are alot of criminals here who have done much worse than these supposed terrorists. And that’s the whole point. If you are going to call people a terrorist, and detain them, some indefinitely, shouldn’t there be some proof. Is a little proof too much to ask? And Remember, this mentallity of Torture Is Good, will spread from supposed terrorists back to Here. Do you want “Enhanced Interrogation” in the American Justice System?
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 9:17pm“And Remember, this mentallity of Torture Is Good, will spread from supposed terrorists back to Here.”
How can one remember what has never happened? We have learned to treat war combatants differently from civilian criminals for decades. We detained German and Japaneese and Iraqi soldiers as prisoners of war without trial just because we found them on the battlefield. That never led to us detaining American civilians the same way.
Put down the bong, man.
And many of the interrogators have been waterboarded. It’s not the same as torture. It isn’t pleasant, but neither is prison.
Report Post »copper
Posted on May 13, 2011 at 1:17amWhy doesn’t McCain follow his daughters lead to take off the mask and just say he another Spector and declare himself a Demoncrat?
Report Post »Code_Orange
Posted on May 13, 2011 at 7:15amHe was tortured and probably knows the value of what his professional “special interrogators” got out of him!
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on May 13, 2011 at 8:04amJohn McCain is the perfect example of a Progressive RINO and needs to be tossed out of Washington.
Report Post »jamesd1234
Posted on May 13, 2011 at 7:17pmIf torture didn’t work then those anti-American things while he was a POW he signed were his true feelings.
From a 2005 article about McCain’s torture as a POW
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/29/100012.shtml
——————
“I thought they were bluffing and refused to provide any information beyond my name, rank and serial number, and date of birth. They knocked me around a little to force my cooperation.”
The punishment finally worked, McCain said. “Eventually, I gave them my ship’s name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant.”
———————————
So McCain gave accurate info while being tortured.
Report Post »Ceefoo
Posted on May 14, 2011 at 3:17amAnd this Sen. McCain is why you are not the CiC.
Report Post »Ironmaan
Posted on May 12, 2011 at 1:43pmHey douchbag, go peddle your tripe somewhere else.
Report Post »http://guerillatics.com