Judge Clears Army Vet to Sue Donald Rumsfeld Over Abduction & Torture Claims
- Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:00am by
Billy Hallowell
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WASHINGTON (The Blaze/AP) — Former Secretary of Defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld, has some major problems on the horizon. For the second time, a judge is allowing an Army veteran who says he was imprisoned unjustly and tortured by the U.S. military in Iraq to sue him personally for damages.
The veteran’s identity is withheld in court filings, but he worked for an American contracting company as a translator for the Marines in the volatile Anbar province before being detained for nine months at Camp Cropper, a U.S. military facility near the Baghdad airport dedicated to holding “high-value” detainees.
The government says he was suspected of helping get classified information to the enemy and helping anti-coalition forces enter Iraq. But he was never charged with a crime and says he never broke the law.
Lawyers for the man, who is in his 50s, say he was preparing to come home to the United States on annual leave when he was abducted by the U.S. military and held without justification while his family knew nothing about his whereabouts or even whether he was still alive.
Court papers filed on his behalf say he was repeatedly abused, then suddenly released without explanation in August 2006. Two years later, he filed suit in U.S. District Court in Washington arguing that Rumsfeld personally approved torturous interrogation techniques on a case-by-case basis and controlled his detention without access to courts in violation of his constitutional rights.
Chicago attorney Mike Kanovitz, who is representing the plaintiff, says it appears the military wanted to keep his client behind bars so he couldn’t tell anyone about an important contact he made with a leading sheik while helping collect intelligence in Iraq.
“The U.S. government wasn’t ready for the rest of the world to know about it, so they basically put him on ice,” Kanovitz said in a telephone interview. “If you’ve got unchecked power over the citizens, why not use it?”
The Obama administration has represented Rumsfeld through the Justice Department and argued that the former defense secretary cannot be sued personally for official conduct. The Justice Department also argued that a judge cannot review wartime decisions that are the constitutional responsibility of Congress and the president. And the department said the case could disclose sensitive information and distract from the war effort, and said the threat of liability would impede future military decisions.
But U.S. District Judge James Gwin rejected those arguments and said U.S. citizens are protected by the Constitution at home or abroad during wartime.
“The court finds no convincing reason that United States citizens in Iraq should or must lose previously declared substantive due process protections during prolonged detention in a conflict zone abroad,” Gwin wrote in a ruling issued Tuesday.
“The stakes in holding detainees at Camp Cropper may have been high, but one purpose of the constitutional limitations on interrogation techniques and conditions of confinement even domestically is to strike a balance between government objectives and individual rights even when the stakes are high,” the judge ruled.
In many other cases brought by foreign detainees, judges have dismissed torture claims made against U.S. officials for their personal involvement in decisions over prisoner treatment. But this is the second time a federal judge has allowed U.S. citizens to sue Rumsfeld personally.
U.S. District Judge Wayne R. Andersen in Illinois last year said two other Americans who worked in Iraq as contractors and were held at Camp Cropper, Donald Vance and Nathan Ertel, can pursue claims that they were tortured using Rumsfeld-approved methods after they alleged illegal activities by their company. Rumsfeld is appealing that ruling, which Gwin cited.
The Supreme Court sets a high bar for suing high-ranking officials, requiring that they be tied directly to a violation of constitutional rights and must have clearly understood their actions crossed that line.
The case before Gwin involves a man who went to Iraq in December 2004 to work with an American-owned defense contracting firm. He was assigned as an Arabic translator for Marines gathering intelligence in Anbar. He says he was the first American to open direct talks with Abdul-Sattar Abu Risha, who became an important U.S. ally and later led a revolt of Sunni sheiks against al-Qaida before being killed by a bomb.
In November 2005, when he was to go on home leave, Navy Criminal Investigative Service agents questioned him about his work, refusing his requests for representation by his employer, the Marines or an attorney. The Justice Department says he was told he was suspected of helping provide classified information to the enemy and helping anti-coalition forces attempting to cross from Syria into Iraq.
He says he refused to answer questions because of concern about confidentiality, and the agents handcuffed and blindfolded him, kicked him in the back and threatened to shoot him if he tried to escape. He was then transferred to an unidentified location for three days before being flown to Camp Cropper.
For his first three months at Camp Cropper he says he was held incommunicado in solitary confinement with a hole in the ground for a toilet. He says he was then moved to cells holding terrorist suspects hostile to the United States who were told about his work for the military, leading to physical attacks by his cellmates that left him in constant fear for his life.
He claims guards tortured him by repeatedly choking him, exposing him to extreme cold and continuous artificial light, blindfolding and hooding him, waking him by banging on a door or slamming a window when he tried to sleep and blasting music into his cell at “intolerably loud volumes.”
He says he always denied any wrongdoing and truthfully answered questions but interrogators continued to threaten him. Both sides say a detainee status board in December 2005 determined he was a threat to the multinational forces in Iraq and authorized his continued detention, but he says he was not allowed to see most of the evidence against him. Documents the government filed with the court only say he is suspected of a crime, without providing details.
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Comments (141)
Tickdog
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:49amget rid of these ignorant judges.. jeeze.. they weaken this nation.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:09amWeaken the nation?
So it makes us weak that we actually defend a US Citizen, regardless if he was of middle eastern decent, from being abducted by the US Military, held for 9 months and tortured without being charged or convicted of a crime? His family, who was expecting him home, were sitting around for 9+ months not knowing whether he was alive, dead or captured by the enemy (or in this case by the supposed friendlies)?
You are in a weird world if you actually think this was acceptable. If the man is guilty of providing the enemy with classified information, they can charge him with a crime and allow the court system to analyze the evidence. As an American citizen, he also had the right to a trial by jury of his peers and due process of the law.
You know, the things in the Constitution that protects us from overbearing government, or being falsely accused, that I’m sure you complain about. Oh wait, that’s only if it affects you, damn everyone else!
Report Post »thinkinghuman
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:19amNo, torture is a pretty bad thing. I see NO PLACE for it in a civilized society. I don’t care for the argument that it “saves” people, “saves” lives. Saddam did torture too. We let our country SINK to those lowest of levels, to officially torture and call it “interrogation.’
Report Post »thinkinghuman
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:21amrule of law TICKdog. We don’t get to selectively apply the Constitution of this land to people based on their ethnicity. Sorry, that’s nazi to think that way. We all know Hitler was guilty of singling out certain ethnicities in his country and gassing them.
Report Post »LookTowardsTheLight
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:33am@American Soldier (Separated)
So I guess you support trying terrorist in American courtrooms instead of Military Tribunals, huh? A “soldier” who I would assume would know what war is and understand that WE ARE IN A FEW would understand that the actions of this individual are on a battlefield and not Somewhere, USA. Therefore he is not and should not be afforded the same rights as a common criminal.
I‘m not sure if you are an actual soldier and have served this greatest nation on God’s green Earth, but if you are I only have one question: People, why do we let liberals enter into our Military to sabotage it from within???
More like American Traitor (Separated)
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 12:02pmAre the terrorist American citizens and served in the US Army for X amount of years? I hardly see how you can get from my statements that I would support that. This case clearly shows that the military didn’t have any actual evidence for the guy. If the so called “terrorist” in your scenario existed, was he caught in the act of firing an RPG at coalition forces? Was he caught planting an IED along the road? How can you not see the difference in these cases? Americans use the term terrorist so loosely these days. Thanks a lot Patriot Act.
I have served. You are not the first nor the last to question my service. As I’ve told many others before you right here on the blaze, I don’t have to justify anything to any of you. Believe me or not, doesn’t matter to me. I know where I’ve been, what I‘ve done and what I’ve had to endure. No matter how much disbelief you have, it won’t change the fact. Is it so unheard of that someone who’s served would actually be opposed to the war? Funny, because I know many more just like me that are still in active duty. Go figure.
I am far from a liberal sir. I’m far from a republican as well. I suppose I’m closer to a libertarian, although I would never associate with them on official capacity. I’m not much for “parties.” I am my own man and have my set of beliefs through my individual experiences. I won’t give myself a title.
Report Post »LookTowardsTheLight
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 12:38pm@American Soldier (Separated)
Well buddy, if I met you out on the street I would shake your hand and thank you for your service. However, I will still disagree with your stance despite of “what you‘ve seen and what you’ve done.” In addition, I’m so tired of hearing about “I’m not a party man”. When it comes down to election night, you will still be voting and supporting someone that’s either a “D” or “R”. Pick a party and if you have a problem with what you see, then gather people that are like minded and change it. The Republican Party is much stronger and better thanks to the Tea “Party” movement.
“Death To Tyranny”
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 12:41pmI am almost certain that telling the enemy information on the battlefield is treason. I am also sure the field manual has the officer in charge shoot him dead by firing squad. I am sure he was arrested for giving classified information to the enemy for one reason, they arrested him for a purpose. The person that most likely told the soldiers what he was doing was kept hush hush. Standard Operating Proceedure. They should have shot him right there and got it over with. The law the soldier goes buy is not the law of our land. Sorry, that is the way it is. This ******* judge is just acting on his subjective notion and not on military law. As far as torture, that was up to the CIA and guess what? Thats hush hush too. All this whole story will do is to expose inside operatives, spys and the people in Iraq that helped bring this terd down. Now he wants to cry about it but is he prepared for a military tribunal and firing squad? Sorry, am not buying the story, the evidence had to be there for him to go through any torture and you know it. OSOC
Report Post »Drinkingoutacups
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 1:34pm@OSOC “Sorry, am not buying the story…” Good thing you aren’t a judge. Guilty until proven innocent goes completely against the Judicial system!
And I’m going to imply that you are FOR the war in Iraq and spreading democracy and peace with your comment “…and the people in Iraq that helped bring this terd down.” I would think that you are for the U.S. constitution? And if all of this is correct than you are for the writ of habeas corpus, I mean clearly if U.S. military has evidence on this guy then it should be no problem what so ever for this guy to be proven guilty for treason and then executed. I mean being a US citizen, in a different country or not, and imprisoned by the US military without charges is a fringe against our freedoms and liberties that we are fighting for!!!
Also, to say they should have shot him and gotten it over with would make me think that you support Obama in having a hit list of “High Value Targets”. Lets see how long it takes until someone who is labled a “terrorist” is assasinated and innocent.
I know I assumed a lot of these things from your post, but I have a feeling that I’m not far off in my assumptions.
Report Post »Servant Of YHVH
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 1:42pm@American Soldier (Separated)
Report Post »“He says”
“he says”
“He says”
“He says”
“He claims”
“He says”
“but he says”
I think that I got them all but I’m not sure. IF he was held the way that HE SAYS he was then it probably should be looked into. This has nothing to do with whether a soldier is opposed to the war or not, if they served and served honorably then that is what matters. As to this situation though:
” If they threatened to kill him,”
From what I gather in this case is that the government admitted to arresting him, he “said” or “he claimed” what “he says” happened to him. Just because the government arrested him, that doesn’t mean that all that “he claimed” happened to him, happened to him. It may have and it might have, it is useless to try and decide who is in the wrong here since all we have on this story is a “he said, she said” type situation. Like I said before, if the government was wrong then the government was wrong. If this guy is telling the truth then the government was wrong, HOWEVER, if all of his “claims” are not true then the government wasn’t wrong. Before any of us determines the right and wrong on here, we need to know the truth of the matter as to what exactly and honestly did happen. Also, ANY soldier out there that served honorably while in the service, I thank you for your service and I don’t care if you was opposed to the war or for the war. The important thing is that y’all went in and did what you w
American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 2:29pmAnd he will have his day in court, now, thanks to the Judge allowing this lawsuit to go forward. At least those he accuses with a crime will have the opportunity to fight it in a court of law, something he was not afforded in this case.
Take the torture out. He was still detailed without charges, without evidence. If evidence arises that shows him guilty of supplying enemy with intel, I’ll be the first to call for his head. The way this situation was handled is not acceptable. He could be Hitler himself, everyone gets their day in court. This is a Republic, not a totalitarian regime where people are held and punished without proof or a trial. Are we not America? I can‘t believe I’d be considered a traitor because I believe in the rule of law and due process of the law.
Weird….
Report Post »Polwatcher
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 3:01pmRight now Obama and the Dems are torturing 1/2 the nation. Maybe we can sue him and the Dems for ruining millions of lives by intentionally ruining the economy. Any first semester economic student can see what they are intentionally doing wrong to harm the economy. They have no excuse. If Obama cannot be sued them Rummy can’t be sued or is there a double standard here.
Report Post »blazingaway
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 3:20pmIf you are in the military your are under their form of justice.
Report Post »It is not the same form of justice as that of a US citizen.
You can’t equate the two.
What is tragic is how well we treat criminals as compared to soldiers.
We need to stop giving prisoners so many comforts.
Basically, I want to see them come out of prison physically weaker and able to produce something from working to pay for their cost to imprison them
Right_on_the_Left_Coast
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 4:47pmI’m a Rumsfeld fan, and I really doubt that he was personally involved in this case. But I have to say that this guy deserves to sue somebody for the way he was treated. If you’re going to detain somebody, put their life in danger, and engage in that kind of physical and psychological torture… you better be sure you have the right guy… and if you’re NOT sure you have the right guy, you better be ready to pay him back BIG if he turns out to be innocent.
You can’t treat a citizen like this and just say “Oops… sorry!” When you realize you screwed up. Some big time repayment is in order… though I’m not sure that the judge made the right decision in identifying Rumsfeld as the one to pay.
Report Post »rodamaa
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 5:50pmActually, he is setting a possible precedence. Maybe we can use it sue Barack Obama for the 4 trillions he stole.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 6:41pm@BLAZINGAWAY
Fortunately for the man that is suing for unlawful detention and torture, he was not active duty military. He was a civilian contractor, an American citizen and afforded every protection under the Constitution as you do. Next.
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:13pmHeadline: Rummy says,get in line.
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:53pmget rid of Rumsfeld
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RvLL–vSsA&feature=related
ggranello
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:32amI am being exposed to “temperature extremes” and “continuous artificial light” right now, and last night I was awakened repeatedly by banging doors, blaring music and slamming windows when I was trying to sleep. I am at work now and stayed at a motel across from LaGuardia last night.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:18amYou made that choice. You could have spent a bit more money and stayed in a nice hotel rather than a shabby motel. That‘s on you and to try to compare that to someone’s serious ordeal is just childish. Well, this is the Blaze after all….
Report Post »MistaB
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:19amIt’s amazing to see how many judges appointed by Bill Clinton are affecting this country in a negative way.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:48am100% of all judges appointed by liberals effect America in a negative way, they can‘t help it’s in their DNA.
Report Post »thinkinghuman
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:23amRUMSFELD was a bad man to order all that torture. Get real.
Report Post »LookTowardsTheLight
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:47am@thinkinghuman
You really need to start living up to your name. Just saying. “Thinkinghuman” is just code for another liberal troll trying to make waves on The Blaze. Thanks for playing, now go away please and let the adults have a conversation. Go ahead, time to go play in the sand…or stick your head in it.
Report Post »Viet Vet
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 1:54pmnon-thinkinghuman is a baaad man for being an ignoramus!
Report Post »riverdog1
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 3:17pmwow all you guys and gals are supposed to be against tyranny and big goverment control and now you have a case where big gov abducts a man for nine months but you won’t say anything bad becaus a republican administration did it. hippocrits. stand up for rights people.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:16amAs a former Special Agent, US Army Counterintelligence Corps, the only one act could even fall under the definition of tourture: The choking and this is kind of weak.
Any vet who had gone through an Escape and Evasion course has gone through sleep deprivation, hot and cold, blind folding, hog tied, threats of death, being placed in the “hole” and punched. Guess what, this isn’t torture. It really sucks but it leaves no permenant damage. In fact, once one of these acts end, you immediately are out of discomfort. All of these acts is designed to drain you phsyically and weaken you psychologically for the pupose of extracting intelligence and/or identifying the “weak” who are willing to turn on fellow prisoners.
Why would the military have this kind of training? To prepare you for when you need to evade capture and when/if you are captured.
Ask the guys from the Hanoi Hilton what tourture is.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:31amOne final point, the article said he was an Army vet who was working for the USMC. I believe that he is subject to the Uniform Code of Military Justice which has different laws than a civilian code. He also had to be covered by the National Security Act which puts a twist to your constitutional rights.
Finally, I beleive that this suit will not move forward. It opens Pandora’s Box.
Report Post »Fina Biscotti
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:14amThanks for that information, “Dismayed Veteran”…….!
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:15amArmy Veteran, meaning he was discharged. From what I gathered in the article, he was acting as a contractor. We had a few ourselves, American citizens from the middle east that were in country to be terps. Those guys made a good chunk of change. I doubt UCMJ applies to everyone that’s ever served, even years after they’ve been discharged. Show me the law.
And just because you don‘t consider it torture doesn’t mean others don’t. I’m sure if you had to suffer through that “training” for 9 solid months in a manner where they don’t care if they cross the line to permanent damage. That‘s like saying you didn’t beat your child since you didn’t leave bruises.
In training, which I haven’t done the SERE type training but know many that have or have taught the course, they know they can’t break the guys on purpose. They can only push you so far otherwise you’d be a broken soldier afterwards. Plus last I recall, SERE training is a month at the most? And not all of them are “torture” related, which may last a week at the most? You really think that’s comparable to 9 months in this detention center in Iraq?
Get with reality bro.
Report Post »thinkinghuman
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:26amYour PARADIGM for torture is warped. Torture is torture, not what some Navy Seal can endure to keep his job. That idea is whacked.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:31amAlso, threats of death? If you’re a soldier going through SERE training, do you really believe the instructors are going to kill you? No. You also know how long training is going to be, you know it won’t last forever. This guy was in this place not knowing if he’d make it out alive. If they threatened to kill him, I bet he believed it could be more than possible. I‘m blown away by some people’s logic comparing training and real life…. sounds like people just finding excuses to be OUT-laws.
Report Post »LookTowardsTheLight
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 2:02pm@Dismayed Veteran
Thank you sir for your service! You are a hero in my book!! Very informative post for the rest of us ( @American Soldier (Separated) may have learned something, but probably won’t).
@Thinkinghuman
Silly progressive liberals like you will never understand how the real world works. Thank God for people like @Dismayed Veteran. Someone buy him a beer please!
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 2:45pm@LOOKTOWARDSTHELIGHT
What could I have learned? That someone that went through 30 days of SERE training was able to endure and experience a fraction of what it would be like to be a POW? I have good friends that have been through SERE, and while there are different levels of the training, the one he went through was roughly 30 days long with maybe 7-10 days worth of being a “prisoner” and being “tortured.” What lesson did I learn besides the fact that those soldiers KNOW it‘s a training exercise and KNOW it’ll end sometime very soon. How can you compare that to a man that was thrown into a prison, with no real charges brought against him and not convicted. He didn‘t have the luxury of knowing that it’ll end within a week. He could have been in there until he drew his last breath. That alone can be torturous. Especially if he is innocent. If they had the evidence, why didn’t they convict him of being a traitor and none of this mess would have happened? Instead they just threw him in a whole and perhaps hoped that the real “terrorist” that was in there with him would just kill him.
America, we are a country of freedoms and laws. The Blaze, mostly full of people who claim to be conservatives and constitutionalist. Yes turn after turn, it’s people willing to throw aside the concepts of due process and the constitution merely because their emotions get the better of them. He’s a muslim, he must be guilt! WHO CARES?!
Those that actually believe in the Republic
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 5:21pm@AmericanSoldier & Thinkinghuman
Believe it or not, I do know the difference between training and reality. I did my tour. Later, I was an Army POW debriefer. I know the difference between true torture and interrogation.
The sole point that I was trying to make is that most of acts described are the same acts that the US military does during E&E. 40 years ago, it was called rigorous interrogation. That was the military’s definition, not mine.
This person is either a vet and vetted intelligence contractor held for 9 months because the Navy did’t want him talking about his intel source (His version) OR he is a vet and vetted intelligence contractor who gave classified information to the enemy and provided safe passage. (Navy’s version)
Since he had to have signed the non-disclosure of classified doucments and understood the penalties for disclousure, I have a hard time believing the Navy would hold him incommudicato and employed rigorous interrogation techniques. There would be no reason to.
Now if he gave info to the enemy and provided safe passage, I can understand the Navy detaining him.
One final rant. My son is on his 3rd tour of duty in Iraq. So I have more than passing interest in supporting our troops. I am in the group of Viet Nam vets who believe we should have flooded Afghanistan with troops, destroyed the terrorists in detail, killed Osama, and left the country. I believe in retribution not nation building.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:35pmThe point I was trying to make was that many of the techniques used by NCIS were the same as the E&E course. Those techniques were not torture. The US military classified as rigorous interrogation. (This is a 40 year old designation. I don’t know what it is called now.)
A couple of things to consider are the two senarios.
1. An honorably discharged US Army soldier is hired by a contractor to support intelligence gathering by the USMC. At the end of his tour, he is detained by the Navy because the Navy doesn’t want him talking about an intel souce he developed. The assumption there is that no one else knew about this source. He then is detained and toutured. This is known as BS. He was a vet hired by a contractor to gather intelligence for the USMC. There is a thing called chain of command. There is also an intelligence rule: No sole sources. Why would the Navy detain him?
The other senario is he is an Army vet who was hired by a contractor, was vetted and assigned to USMC. He then gave classifiec information to the enemy and arranged safe passage. This makes him a tratior. This is a good reason.
As an intel contractor he had to have signed the appropriate papers concerning the release of classified information and the penalties. As an Army vet he should have known.
I know the difference. I did my tour. I saw what I saw. Later I was a US Army POW debriefer. I had an exposure to true torture.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:39pmOne final rant. My son is on his 3rd tour in Iraq. I have more than a passing interest. I am one of those Viet Nam vets who beleive we should have gone into the Stan, destroyed the terrorist utterly and in detail, killed Bin Laden and left. Screw nation building, I believe in retribution.
As a vet, you should remember
You sleep peacefully at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on your behalf.
Report Post »Shayde
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:18pmOH MY GOODNESS !!! SO WRONG ON SO MANY LEVELS!
Please do not listen to this guy.
USAF Vet here.
I was trained along side Army, Navy and Marines as well as my other Airmen in the proper processes for treating prisoners.
It is a CLEAR violation of every wartime acts related treaty (any one ever hear of a little place called Geneva) EVERy signed and entered into by the United States to EVER treat even a KNOWN enemy comabatant in this fashion. Is it done? Yes. Is it legal? NO.
The UCMJ also is VERY CLEAR that a US military member is obligated to uphold all laws of the US as well as conduct themselves in accordance with treaty.
Practically anyone who has ever been in any branch of the military has had training on how to handle prisoners of war. Exercise after exercise we are trained how to take, hold, transer and question prisoners.
What this guy isn’t telling you is that if he really is/was counter intelligence, he knows this very well. He also knows that there is a blind eye turned to it because everyone of them knows it is illegal. But, someone at some point in the chain of command “takes responsibility” but it is seldom the top guy (who actually ordered or approved the illegal acts) and as long as most of the events of this sort end up providing some intelligence, it is considered justified. “But I was under orders.”
Report Post »Shayde
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:40pmTo continue…
The whole idea that these abuses are OK because when they end you are “immediately out of discomfort” is rediculous. Someone has total control of your life and death, your every breath and movement and even you thoughts to a certain extent.
And this one really gets me…”All of these acts is designed to drain you phsyically and weaken you psychologically for the pupose of extracting intelligence and/or identifying the “weak” who are willing to turn on fellow prisoners. ”
REALLY? And if I just nip off the end of you little finger it will physically drain you right? And maybe if I do the same (or threaten) to enough body parts small enough to fit into a cigar cutter won;t that weaken you psychologically a little bit. Maybe a few thousand volts to some sensitive regions of anatomy will convince you to “turn on fellow prisoners” if it goes on long enough. How about pics of your family and a few plausible scenarios about what could happen to them sans cooperation. Just another temporary psychological discomfort?
I agree with your ideas that we should have set our mission, gone in and taken care of business and got out, and made serious, credible threats to ANYONE thinking they can go in and set up a games similar to what were being played before, and then backed them up.
But, we ARE better than our enemies or we ARE our enemies. No two ways about it.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on August 5, 2011 at 9:19am@Shayde
I will try to explain one more time. In US military E&E training some of the same techniques as described in the posting are used. The US military does not torture participants in the training. If the Navy used those techniques it does not fit the definition of torture. That is all. The only reason I posted anything to begin with is that the word torture is used freely without any clarity. My training was in 1969. I suspect it has changed over the years.
In all of my comments I never made a single statement supporting the confinement and treatment of this individual. If you cut off my finger, you have tortured me. If you attach attach battery cables to me, you have tortured me. No question about it.
This individual was not a POW. He is an American who alledgely passed classified information and arranged safe passage.
Report Post »powhatan
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:02amwhat judge…maybe a little persuasion should be sent his way…
Report Post »Galopez555
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:53amDonald Rumsfeld is a true American! Leave it to the liberals to go after him instead of focusing on the real issues.
Report Post »Nepenthe
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:04amSadly, I believe your comments to be true. Rumsfield seems to represent a marjority of ‘true conservative christian americans’, who believe that the indefinite detention and torture of a human being with no evidence of guilt is perfectly exceptable.
One of the top five reasons why I went libertarian instead of republican.
Report Post »Drinkingoutacups
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:27amHow can you say to leave it to the liberals to do this? From the looks of this article he was an American citizen doing his job with no wrong doing! He was questioned and not charged but thrown in jail? How is this any worse than GW and Obama being able to confine citizens without charges, or creating a hitlist of “suspected” terrorists to assasinate? And the reason they are going after Donald is because he was the secretary of defense. Being a leader comes with its responsibilities. @nepenthe I couldn’t agree with you more
Report Post »JRook
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:42am@Galopez555 Did you miss the part where it said the Obama Admin was defending Rumsfeld. If the facts of the story are accurate then Rumsfeld needs to be held accountable. I‘m only sorry it won’t get to Cheney, a real American disgrace.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:59amGood god moron, only 2 people were water-boarded, and that is the most severe thing they did to anyone.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:02amWell if you want to go after the republican leaders, why the hell don’t you demand the head of Obama for Fast and Furious, murdering Americans is a lot worse than locking up one suspected of committing a crime on a battle field during war.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:26amObama should be held accountable for Fast and Furious. Everyone needs to be accountable and being a hypocrite because Rumsfield is a republican is unacceptable.
Report Post »cher128
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:35am….and first Lt. Michael Behenna continues what was 25 year but reduced to 15 sentence in solitary confinement in Ft Leavenworth for killing known Al Qaedada terrorist Ali Mansur who had already killed 2 American soldiers and wounded 2 others.
Report Post »Lt. Behenna was completely innocent and should “never” have been imprisoned!
Read his story on the website Defend Michael.com
The military takes the side, too often, of the enemy while giving the harshest sentences to those fighting for our country.
I think of border agents Ramos And Campeon where our government imprisoned these good men while siding with the drug and human trafficker.
Our government stinks like last weeks fish. Whatever the righteous cause to defend our people, they are on the wrong side.
Time to de-louse this government (and kick the scourge George Souros out!)
tower7femacamp
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:46amWhy can’t Rumsfeld be sued for the effects of Aspartame ?
Report Post »Kai Wan
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:00amThey won’t release his name because…..wait for it…… he is a muslim.
Report Post »nysparkie
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:44amI know nothing of this. Is this true? Muslim? It so, it figures.
Report Post »ClunkerT
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:54amBilly here has the balls to cover this supposed crime but does not have the balls to cover the massive cover-up of the FORGED Birth Certificate Obama released on April 27th. I have emailed Billy and told him to contact Doug Vogt (PhD), the man who has filed a 22 page CRIMINAL COMPLAINT with the FBI which presents irrefutable evidence that the Birth Record is a FORGERY. Now there is a REAL CRIME with REAL EVIDENCE and nothing from our man BILLY. Doug Vogt would be more than happy to give BILLY a full compy of his criminal complaint. I am beginning to think the Blaze is in bondage to FEAR.
Billy could also be covering Obama’s FRAUDULENT use of a SS#. The Social Security Administration told Susan Daniels, the state licensed private investigator who has been uncovering mounds of fraudulent acitivity with this number, that they never issued this SS# (042-68-4425) to the President when in FACT he has used it many, many times. All Billy would have to do is contact Susan Daniels and she would be more than happy to bestow her evidence upon Billy. Isn’t it pitiful that a person in the audience is up on this stuff and the people at the Blaze are caught sleeping.
Report Post »riverdog1
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 3:53pmclunk…you are an idiot. my god you will believe anything won’t you. ooooh look behind you a alien jackalope with a raygun!!
Report Post »Grannie4news
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 5:09pmI totally agree with you CLUNKERT. They are afraid they might be called a Birther. But facts are facts and it is the most disastrous scam and crime ever committed on the people of the United States. Someone somewhere picked this man to take our country down and must confess he is doing a fine job of it. As for a lot of the support for this man to sue a good man like Rumsfield, I think they are people who are being paid to infiltrate conservative blogs.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:53amSurely this will be stopped by another judge.
Report Post »Nepenthe
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:00amOnly if that judge doesn’t believe in the concept of justice and law.
Report Post »Wal22nut
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:51amLet the courts sort this out. Don’t be quick to judge or defend anyone yet, because we simply don’t have all the facts.
If these claims are true, don’t you want the protection of the Constitution for all US citizens? The citizen making these claims is a veteran. Are we so jaded that we would throw a presumably honorable man’s rights under the bus pre-maturely? Just because he speaks Farci? and may be a Muslim?
The Truth has no agenda!
Report Post »Servant Of YHVH
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:08amSo I guess this guy personally saw Rumsfeld come up and personally tell them to torture him (if they did) and all that? How else would they know that Rumsfeld PERSONALLY did this? Makes me think that there might be something fishy in this, don’t know if it true or not but I wonder about that statement.
Report Post »Nepenthe
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 10:06amThe detention and torture policies have already been linked to Rumsfield. He had complete knowledge and fully allowed what was happening, that being the indefinite detention and brutal treatment of human beings where there was no evidence against them.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:55amHe was the ultimate decision maker in his official capacity and should be held accountable for that.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:50amAGAIN.. welcome to IRAN. They won’t stop until every PAST Conservative who served in any capacity goes to tria for SOME CRIME. Tea Party Terrorists will be next on the list. BE AFRAID, be VERY AFRAID, when things like this happen. This administration is getting away with anything they want USING THE LIBERAL COURTS to doso! Obama plans to raise ONE BILLION DOLLARS to get re-elected. THEY GIVE to him and he gives back tenfold in stimulous and bailouts using OUR money to anyone on the side of AGENDA 21! Their agenda is moving forward at a “fast and furious” pace, including controlling weapons. SCARY SH*T people…..
Report Post »TexasStu
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:46amIn war everybody is suspect when talking with the enemy. We cannot know all the facts and probably never will. One thing is for sure about this and that is that war is hell and decisions that would not be thought of during peace time are hard fact during war time and that cannot be helped. If anyone is to blame here it would probably be the CIA since they do the counter intelligence in the field of war and also likely to have said he was a liability that needed to be held and questioned. At any rate I am sure Rumsfeld did not know this jerk nor had any knowledge of it until well after the fact of his incarceration and then probably could not do anything about it if he did. This is just another lawsuit that will cost the taxpayer a lot of money and prove nothing.
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:55amI agree TEXASSTU– I am reminded of the Court Martial of Lt. Michael Behenna -whom the Military made an example of claiming he lost his right to self defense back in 2009 the moment he pointed his weapon at an Afghanni prisoner. What I have heard reported of that case– is as repulsive as this judge saying Rumsfeld can be held accountable for what was done to this man. cups and all are upside down
Report Post »the whole world is upside down anymore.
Walkabout
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:41amI have a hard time believing this part “so he couldn’t tell anyone about an important contact he made with a leading sheik while helping collect intelligence in Iraq.”
The U.S. did support Anbar Awakening, which was local Sunni sheiks in Anbar province, so I have a hard time believing him.
But the military is a large, complex organization with different factions so maybe there is truth in his claims. Funny how so many liberals auto-dump on Faux News and I find support for this guys contention at Fox News. Well what do you expect of mind number robots?
Mitchell Reiss, “Negotiating With Evil: When to Talk to Terrorists.”
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2010/09/07/mitchell-reiss-anbar-awakening-ramadi-al-qaeda-army-marines-iraq-washington/#ixzz1U3yuKOXF
Report Post »ARSILHOUETTE
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:36amUnless I missed it in this very wordy article, this guy was NOT a veteran he worked for a civilian contractor attached to the Marines. The headline is misleading. As for the content of the article maybe it should go to court where the truth might come out.
Report Post »Wal22nut
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:55amThe reporter may be wrong, but the article states several times in the first two paragraphs that the compalinent is a veteran.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:53amI believe, based on reading the article, that the man was an Army soldier previously. He either retired or separated after his contract was done and went into civilian private contractor work as an interpreter for the USMC. I could be wrong, but that’s what I got from the article.
Report Post »www.Cryptoportico.com
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:24amWhat if this happened to you? Wouldn’t you want to take action for having your natural rights (recognized, not granted) violated so egregiously? So, anyone working for the US, even those who spent their “entire” lives serving, can simply violate your rights? What recourse do we have? The case will rise or fall on its own merit, as they all do.
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:39amhey , apparently a lot of people like the nazi way of government, you get arrested , you get shot, no jury, not rights, ,but hey ,if that is what the want, then it want be long until it happens here the way things or going.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:16amLemme guess: this guy must be telling the truth because he’s a Muslim, right? That’s what the Left will be saying.
And we ALL KNOW that NO ONE would EVER make up anything to make these contractors and folks from the Bush administration look bad, would they?
Media: Halliburton Paid Dick Cheney to Commit Rape in Iran
Report Post »http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45302
NSDQ
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:25amBe Slow To Judge, There are many who know how to speak farsi and are not muslim the such as coptics or Aramco brats for example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrhRjc7SSXY
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:27amYea, name withheld because every one will recognize it as a Muslim name.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:43amNSDQ please reword your last sentence. It was mangled & its’ meaning was lost.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:07amNSDQ, I’m not judging, just throwing a possible scenario out there is all. However, in light of the media’s reluctance to identify the AWOL Ft Campbell jihadi soldier as being Muslim, it would not be much of stretch.
Just sayin’. :)
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:12amOkay I got NSDQ’s post. He is right. There are many people who speak Arabic besides Muslims, such as Coptic Christians & ARAMCO brats.
Interestingly, Lebanese Maronite Christians were shut out for selection as translators.
Instead Al Awaki who we are now looking for was invited tot the Pentagon after 911. So people who were not carefully vetted were hired & people who were less of a risk were shut out. Many people suspect we have been penetrated by Muslim terrorist or the sympathizers. This guy could be innocent or he could be guilty.
The government might have the necessary evidence to convict but does not want to reveal sources (agents) or methods. In that case not convicting him does not mean he was innocent.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:51am@Walkabout, “In that case not convicting him does not mean he was innocent.”
We know all about that thanks to Casey Anthony. :)
You’re right, there’s a lot of non-Muslim Arabic speakers out there. Like I said, I was merely describing a possible scenario. Perhaps the guy IS a Coptic, but if that were the case, the media would have reported it and branded this guy a right wing nut job. Then again, since he’s suing Rumsfeld, anything this guy does from here on out will possibly be officially sanctioned as gospel truth and commended by the lame stream media – just as long as he’s not a Christian. Just sayin’.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:50amThe difference is, Anthony got her day in court. From the article, there was no evidence. Just suspicion. Should American citizens be allowed to be detained indefinitely out of mere suspicion? We can just throw out innocent until PROVEN guilty altogether, I‘m sure it’ll make us all safer!
Report Post »hempstead1944
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:08amI am no fan of Rumsfeld but whatever happened to the Constitution?
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:16amexactly !!!! as i see it the constitution means nothing to a lot of people, it is an out dated piece of paper, but when it comes to their rights, they will be the first to stand up and demand fairness,and their rights under that out dated old piece of paper.
Report Post »JMorcan
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:05am“I am no fan of Rumsfeld but whatever happened to the Constitution?”
Bush run it through the office shredder?
Report Post »tower7femacamp
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:45amJust ask Rumsfeld what happened to WTC 7
Report Post »maybe if enough people ask him he will remember ?
shirelover
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:00amLouise,
Report Post »I agree, there is more information to be had. I really don’t see the Army doing this very much, for one thing, it would be really hard to get anyone else to translate for you if you keep this up!
jeffyfreezone
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:56amThis is unbelievable to me. This man deserves a medal for the things he’s done for his country. Where do these judges get the stones for decisions like this? Rummy has spent his ENTIRE life serving this nation and her interests.
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:03amthe u.s. needs to clear the benches. these judges must be removed. what the h-ll is wrong with america? good thing these aholes weren’t around during the second world war. if they were they would have been shot for treason, sedition or some other damn thing.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 9:14amWhat this liberal judge doesn’t realize is that if the guy was in the military he has no jurisdiction over what happened during wartime. The soldier falls under UCMJ while in the military. When you enlist and wear the uniform you give up certain civilian rights and evidently this putz judge needs to be educated on this.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:46amUnfortunately, he wasn’t active duty. From what I gathered from reading the article, he was a discharged (Army veteran) and was a civilian contractor terp.
Report Post »Viet Vet
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:22pmHopefully it will be thrown out.
Report Post »olddog
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:50amWould someone please give me a ruling to Sue the judge that made this ruling, let just sue all the judges, Geees at this point I want to Sue, Sue, Sue Who, Sue…
Report Post »The Eagles song said it best ( The more I think about it old Billy was right, lets kill all the lawyers, killem tonight) Get Over It….
ScreaminEagle
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:04amExactly, if Rumsfeld can be sued why not Judges, Congressmen, Senators, Supreme Court Justices, Hey Obama! Yea lets set a president. I like it!
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:44amWere you detained illegally for up to 9 months, tortured and unable to contact family or a lawyer for your defense? Were you not allowed to exercise your Constitutional rights such as not being held for an infamous crime without indictment of a grand jury (5th) not be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of the law (5th) be afforded the right to a speedy and public trial (6th) by a jury of his peers (6th) with the ability to confront his accusers (6th) obtaining witnesses in his favor (6th) have a lawyer (6th) and have protection from cruel and unusual punishment (8th).
But I suppose trampling on the constitution is perfectly fine as long as it’s a Republican doing it….
Report Post »louise
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:46amThis article is so disturbing. I never was a fan of Rumsfeld, but for some reason, I think there is more to this story.
Report Post »Viet Vet
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:32pmGet a book and read about Rummy, his life story. There are not many more competent, successful patriotic and dedicated Americans than Mr Rumsfeld. The success we’ve had in the war on terrorism and getting bin Laden was a direct result of his reorganizing the U.S. military to fight this unconventional terrorist war. The reorganization necessarily had to be done while the war was being fought, an even more daunting task. (since Klinton and his cronies didn’t know s**t about s**t where military things are concerned, and by way of appeasement set us up for 9/11)
Report Post »Son_of_Liberty
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:46am“Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to the accidental opinion of the day; but a series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period, and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers (adminstrators) too plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery.” Thomas Jefferson
3%
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:31amThanks for the quote, my husband is making it his new tag line.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:41am.
Report Post »I say put the Judge and Donald in a room. And who ever walks out the door is the winner……
Ron_WA
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:40amGo ahead sue away; the world needs more frivolous lawsuits – that’s the way to improve America …
Report Post »Son_of_Liberty
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 7:56am@ ron_wa
If what this man claims is in fact true, then this is NOT a frivolous law suit. If his rights were truely violated then he has every right to seek restitution from those reponsible.
3%
Report Post »Ron_WA
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:05amI’m not saying his issues are necessarily frivolous but suing a seated federal servant is frivolous & is garaunteed to go nowhere per the Ferris doctrine & various other established case law – ya can’t sue federal public servants for the execution of their official functions.
Now one can petition to bring criminal charges against them for violation of the law & public trust … different issue.
Report Post »Son_of_Liberty
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:28am@ron_wa
“The government of the United States has been emphatically termed a government of laws and not men.” John Marshall
Case law be damned! We cannot allow public officials to get away with violating the rights of the people. Public officials are public servants. They are NOT above the law!
3%
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 8:33amThen let’s sue Obama, he tramples on the rights of the Tea Party, allowing all manners of slander against us.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on August 4, 2011 at 11:37amI suppose we should release all the Nazi officers we tried and found guilty of war crimes. You seem to believe “just following orders” is an acceptable defense. Can’t sue a government official operating on official capacity? That feels like you’re leaving him open to do whatever he wants without accountability. Isn’t that what we complain about on a daily basis, accountability in government and politicians?
If anyone needs to be held accountable, it’s the top officials that either gave the go ahead or was indifferent to those activities. Without that accountability, what’s to stop them in the future from going out of control? When will enough be enough, when you’re arrested and jailed without evidence of a crime? Will anyone be left to fight for your rights as an American citizen at that point? Hopefully….
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