Colo. Day of Prayer Deemed an Unconstitutional ‘Gov’t Endorsement of Religion’ by Judges
- Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:27am by
Billy Hallowell
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Atheist activists are cheering after the Colorado Court of Appeals ruled on Thursday that proclamations made by the state’s governors over the past few years in favor of a state Day of Prayer were unconstitutional.
From 2004 to 2009, the state’s former governors, Bill Bitter and Bill Owens, made official pro-Colorado Day of Prayer statements that the three-judge panel ruled against. The case, which was brought by the Freedom From Religion Foundation, a secular non-profit that frequently fights faith in the public square, will certainly make waves among the faithful.
The Denver Post provides a recap of the legal drama:
The legal challenge to the Colorado Day of Prayer was made in 2008 against Gov. Bill Ritter by the Wisconsin-based Freedom from Religion Foundation. The foundation also won a federal case in 2010, FFRF v. Obama, in which a U.S. district court ruled the National Day of Prayer unconstitutional. In 2011, however, the 7th Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals found the foundation had lacked standing to make the case. Yet the Colorado appellate court affirmed FFRF’s standing.
The prayer day proclamations were particularly problematic, the judges said, because they included Bible verses and religious themes that were seen as state endorsements of religion. Thus, they ruled that the statements constituted a violation of Colorado’s state constitution, as they purportedly favored the people who engage in prayer among all others.
Image Credit: Colorado National Day of Prayer web site
“In doing so, they undermine the premise that the government serves believers and nonbelievers equally,” wrote Judge Steven Bernard in a 73-page decision, The Post reports (read the ruling in its entirety here).
Overall, the judges found the Colorado Day of Prayer proclamations to be “predominately religious” and a “government endorsement of religion over non-religion.”
“We’re exulting over the fact that reason has prevailed, and constitutional rights have been affirmed,” gushed Annie Laurie Gaylor, the co-president of the FFRF.
The ruling didn’t include National Day of Prayer statements that were made by the governors. The appeals judges have sent the case back to a trial court, where a decision surrounding whether Colorado governors should be banned from making future prayer statements will be made.
Eric Brown, a spokesman for Gov. John Hickenlooper, says that the state will consult with Attorney General John Suthers to weigh whether the decision should be appealed.
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Comments (216)
sizzler2220
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:12pmIt is time to get rid of the offending atheists!
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:29pmhow? how will you even identify us? should we be branded? would you throw us in gas chambers? ship us off to Atheismland?
your ignorance and bigotry are obvious for all to see.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:49pmThese are just radical judges. They are traitors, and follow an agenda contrary to our heritage.
PRESIDENTIAL THANKSGIVING PROCLAMATIONS
1789-1815 : George Washington, John Adams, James Madison
http://www.pilgrimhall.org/ThanxProc1789.htm
Thanksgiving Proclamations by the Continental Congress
http://www.pilgrimhall.org/GivingThanks3c.htm
At the opening of each day’s Session of the Supreme Court the Justices stand, while one of their officials invokes the protection of God. Since the days of John Marshall, the Crier has said, “God save the United States and this Honorable Court.” Both the Senate and the House of Representatives open their daily Sessions with prayer. Every President, from George Washington to Barack Obama, has, upon assuming his Office, asked the protection and help of God, and taken his Constitutional Oath on the Holy Bible.
All fifty state constitutions mention God in their preamble, thanking him for blessings of civil and religious liberty.
One of the stanzas of our National Anthem reads, “Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land. Praise the Pow’r that hath made and preserved us a nation, Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just. And this be our motto ‘In God is our Trust.’”
President John Adams declared May 9, 1798 as “a day of solemn humility, fasting, and prayer,“ during which citizens of all faiths were asked to pray ”that our country may be protected from all the dangers which threaten it
Report Post »Arcaster
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:55pmYes, exactly how are you going to get rid of all of us? Would you like to extend that to people belonging to religions other than yours? Will there be some kind of purity test?
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:58pm“FFR and other atheist activists are doing nothing more than hypocritically trying to force atheistic worship and practices (or lack thereof) onto an unwilling American public…”
SWORD – how dense are you? how is the FFRF “forcing atheistic worship” onto the American public? no one is stopping you from praying. can you not understand that? how can i make it more clear? they are fighting Government sponsored prayers of a particular religion. not everyone in Colorado is Christian. the Gov’t represents ALL citizens. you can still pray, i promise. the FFRF isn’t sending police into your house if you start praying. they aren’t raiding Churches to stop your prayer.
i honestly don’t understand how your thought process works.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:27pm@phillyatheist How dense are you? How is Colorado forcing worship unto the American public? No one is stopping you from not praying. Can you not understand that? How can i make it more clear?
“We are a religious people whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.” Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306, 313.
Jefferson wrote in a 1802 letter that he didn’t want his administration to be a “government without religion,” but one that would “strengthen… religious freedom.”
Every Inaugural and Farewell Address made by Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Madison, ETC. mention God, and his blessings over our nation. George Washington declared as President, “Whereas it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me to “recommend to the people of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness…” http://wilstar.com/holidays/wash_thanks.html
Unlike these Judges, I actually provide historical evidence to prove them wrong.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 3:25pmNot all athiests are ‘offending’. Many live and let live…
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 3:36pmWe need to get rid of the activist judges. If a Day of Prayer was nu-Constitutional, then why did JAMES MADISON proclaim a Day of Prayer? Who knew Constitutional rights better than Mr Constitution himself? The pinhead judges? No way.
Report Post »I’m an atheist, so it doesn’t affect me, but it still angers me that we have so many judges that rule according to their ideology instead of according to the law and historical precedent.
Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 3:42pmYa, I wish people wouldn’t use atheists as if we are all alike. I’m not an activist. Thank you @SacredHonor1776 for pointing that out.
It’s like saying all Catholics are alike, even though, if you know enough Catholics, it’s clear that there are Catholic Leftists and there are the Conservative opposites.
LIVE AND LET LIVE! I like how you put that. Thanks again @SacredHonor1776
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 3:54pmYou’re welcome! Thank you for your thoughts about Madison being one of the first to institute the Day of Prayer!
Report Post »DSTSS2010
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 4:03pmThe atheists weren’t satisfied with 364 days, they needed all 365? How about a national no-atheist day!
Report Post »chuck_in_st_paul
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 4:19pmin reply to philly: yeah, works for me
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 4:31pmIn an Atheist/Liberal/Socialist State… a Day of Worship… would mean that you are forced to Worship or you would be Reported & Punished. In a Chistian State… it means Worship is a Good Idea, but it is Optional!
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:07pmMight I make mention of a certain piece of our early history that not many people talk about? The Liberty Bell is an iconic symbol of American independence, located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Formerly placed in the steeple of the Pennsylvania State House (now renamed Independence Hall), the bell was commissioned from the London firm of Lester and Pack (today the Whitechapel Bell Foundry) in 1752, and was cast with the lettering (part of Leviticus 25:10) “Proclaim LIBERTY throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof.” It originally cracked when first rung after arrival in Philadelphia, and was twice recast by local workmen John Pass and John Stow, whose last names appear on the bell. In its early years, the Liberty Bell was used to summon lawmakers to legislative sessions and to alert citizens to public meetings and proclamations. (wiki) So this bell was used in a place where our Founding Fathers drafted the Declaration of Independence AND the Constitution…. and this bell, in a government building used by our government for a time had part of a Bible verse cast on it. This should be the final nail in the coffin. Our government did not create an environment where Christians are told to sit down and shut up about their faith if they are in government positions. Quite the opposite. Since our gov’t is “by the people for the people” Christian politicians have just as much right to proclaim their faith in public as anyone else.
Report Post »turkey13
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 6:29pmHow about Freedom of Speech and if folks don’t like it they can just turn their heads and look the other way.Majority at one time ruled now it’s the minority. I say this knowing one day us Christians and Atheist will have a Koran cramed down our throat.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:13pm@ShiroiRaion Thank you for your honest opinion and logical conclusion. I’m against those atheists who base their claims on ultra leftist very liberal ideas and follow a Marxist agenda. There are many atheists who acknowledge the history and heritage of our nation, and show respect for the greatest country to have ever allowed anyone (including atheists) to live freely. In communist and socialist nations, many having different views than that of the Government are persecuted and heavily restricted in rights. Here in the US, it is our Christian principles of respect, brotherly love, responsibility, hard work, tolerance, accountability, equal rights, and charity, among others, that have afforded to all peace, justice and liberty. One must not believe in God, or accept him, to live here, but one surely cannot deny that without the concept of a higher being having sovereignty over nations, our form and system of Government would be one wherein men in high office are our supreme lords, and to none else could they be ultimately accountable for their actions and words. Even if the idea of a Divine Being is false, it is the idea that our rights come from God, and not from men, which has allowed us to have the freest and most prosperous nation ever. All men are created equal, and are by nature equally free and independent. All men must stand before the same law and be governed according to the same standards and principles, which change not for anyone.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:29pmSadly people have been breaking the Constitution in regards to this and other areas.
Our founders wrote about freedom, liberty, pursuit of happiness while owning other human beings.
The only true way to have freedom of religion is to have freedom of religion. Christians are just upset because they’ve had free reign over this country since its inception and they see it slipping away.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:33pm@SHIROI RAION
Maybe because James Madison was…..wait for it….BREAKING THE CONSTITUTION!
The same men who wrote about freedom, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, OWNED and TRADED other HUMAN BEINGS.
They were therefore breaking the Constitution while doing that. This is just another area where they were breaking the Constitution. Get it?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:38pmMeant to say that the only way to have freedom of religion is to have freedom from religion and keeping the state out of promoting anything regarding belief.
Report Post »Dr Vel
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:39pmIn perfect irony and perfect justice all atheists stand before God on judgment day begging and pleading “please we want to live forever as well”. “If you wanted to have a prayer to exist forever you should not have worked so hard robbing prayer away from all those who love Me”.
Report Post »jwt
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:04pmphilly is right – this does not affect a praye,r except goverment controled prayer – like during ww II, Lord, kill all the Japs and send them to hell. a good christian statement
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:13pm@ModerationIsBest Not exactly, many of our founding fathers wanted to get rid of slavery and free them, but unfortunately, they couldn’t immediately separate themselves from the influence slavery had at that time. Blacks, or any other race, were not considered “State Citizens”. Only white men had the privilege of being full citizens. These concepts or precedents were more of political and legal significance, and didn’t necessarily deny them their recognition as humans. Also, the Constitution allowed slavery. So, Madison was not breaking the Constitution. That’s what the Great Compromise also included or allowed as a condition to be ratified. BTW, that’s quite a desperate claim.
Report Post »Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 3:27amYour Liberal teachers have neglected to tell you NOT ALL OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS WERE SLAVE OWNERS. MADISON was vehemently OPPOSED to slavery.
Report Post »Slavery was a compromise to get all 13 colonies to join the union… that’s why the three-fifths clause is in the Constitution. Madison, too, was not the only President to Proclaim a Day of Prayer. Washington did also.
You Liberal pinheads use slavery against America constantly. Yes, it should have been ended, but America needed all 13 colonies to unite for freedom and the wealthy southerners refused to give it up. If all 13 colonies didn’t unite, America would not have been born and slavery might not have been ended at all without America. It’s thanks to the founding fathers that slavery was ended. If they didn’t put the three-fifths clause in the Constitution, Lincoln probably wouldn’t have become President because the slave states would have had too much power and slavery could still be here today. So we owe the Founding Fathers a great debt, but Liberals show know respect for their sacrifice and turns my stomach.
Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 3:53amI noticed the typo above. It was meant to say “no respect.”
Report Post »Anyways, no one has ever forced me to pray. I’ve had people pray for me. I don‘t think that’s offensive. Last time I checked, after the prayers, I left undamaged. LOL
The judge said, “[The Day of Prayer] endorses RELIGION OVER NON-RELIGION. So what? I’m not religious. I can choose not to pray every day if I want. No one’s forcing prayer on anyone. The judges really chose INTOLERANCE OVER FREEDOM.
Why can we have such odd things as Mother’s Day then? Via the judges’ logic that endorse mothers over non-mothers? His argument makes no sense.
If Gov. Hickenlooper has any sense, he’ll appeal this.
lordjosh
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 7:24amNo. we just need to ignore them and their “judges”.
Report Post »Endeavor1
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:42pmChristians already have Easter and Christmas….need yet another day? Do you really need a nation “day of prayer” to be able to pray or can’t you do that now without it? I don’t believe in your garbage nor do I believe in voo-doo or the tooth fairy. God cannot be proven nor disproven. Religion; Christianity in particular, burned alot of people not but just a few hundred years ago for being “witches”. Remember that? And people on here post that their religion needs to be an implementation we should all adorn. HA! People use religion as a gateway for control. Always have. Now that more and more people see through the lies religious leaders want control of the government to be able to keep their control over the populace. That is how I see it. The judges are right in their decision and i support them.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:44pm@COLT1860
Hahah @ “not exactly”
I don’t care WHY they had slaves, fact is they had slaves while talking about freedom, life, liberty and pursuit.
I don’t care about “socio economic” reasons or they couldn’t “get away” from slavery.
FACT is, they owned other human beings while writing about freedom.
And for every quote you can give me in support of your claim, I can give you one back.
As I said. Our founders had a lot of great ideas, but they were obviously confused on some aspects of life.
Report Post »SwordAndShield_ofTruth
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:57pmModeration clealry does not now that slavery was legal under the Constitution until about 100 years AFTER the Constitution was ratified.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 2:15pm@Endeavor1 You are, it seems, completely oblivious to actual history, and cannot, because of the leftist indoctrination, have any objective discussion. Let’s get some facts straight. NO WITCHES were ever burn here in the US. Any burnings happened in EUROPE, mostly in Roman Catholic states, not Protestant, with the exception of England, which for a time was highly influenced by Roman Catholics. Our early settlers, and founding fathers, were ESCAPING and avoiding such despotism. Protestant Christianity and Roman Catholicism as practiced throughout most of world history is practically totally different. In fact, Catholic Spain persecuted Protestant Christians. So your claims and desperate assumptions are false, and don’t stand a chance in real academia. In fact, it’s this kind of revisionism which is so radical and traitorous to everything our heritage and history stood and yet stands for.
Report Post »wayner4162
Posted on May 13, 2012 at 3:27pmIf you attend movies, buy videos, magazines or any other thing produced in Hollywood or the entertainment industry, you should give some very serious thought to the fact that the people in Hollywood and the rest of the entertainment industry support with millions and millions of dollars, the cause of the communist socialist politicians and their movement to destroy our nation.
Report Post »If you attend any professional sports functions such as boxing, baseball, football, basketball or watch TV channels that air these sports events you are in need again of giving very serious thought to the fact that many, many of the players and coaches give millions to the communist socialist politicians who are ever closer to destroying our nation.
Political correctness is thought control by way of fear of retribution in the schools, work place, in public institutions, and many other places where their used to be what was known as freedom of speech. Evil is good and good is evil, this is the idea behind political correctness it is subversive and evil of itself.
Speak your mind, but more importantly BOYCOTT Hollywood movies or other products and BOYCOTT professional sports events in protest to the leftist socialist-communist movement in this country, take the money you would spend, and spend it on supporting ways to save our constitution, our government, freedom and our way of life.
Where_the_Truth_Dies
Posted on May 15, 2012 at 3:30pmthe judges were completely correct. The founding fathers weren’t Christian nor did they design our nation to be.
You seem to have a difficult time understanding an extremely important sociohistorical context between the 17th and 19th centuries (among other eras): religion, for Washington, Adams (J and JQ), Madison (and Jefferson, Lincoln, Monroe, ad nauseum) was a social norm and more of a habit than a sincere belief. The founding fathers and their progeny were Freemasons and their statuses as such demonstrated their (possible) belief in a supreme deity of sorts. To them, organized archaic dogma, prejudices and close-mindedness were the core tenets of the Abrahamic religions, and these beliefs rightly had no place in the formation and maturation of our nation.
The summarized proclamation you mention John Adams gave in 1798 (which you so lazily copied word-for-word from wikipedia) was an attempt to help ease the hearts and minds of a perpetually war-torn and ignorant (i.e. superstitious) populace.
Here is a quote which more succinctly solidifies his opinion of Christianity, “I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved — the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!” – The Adams-Jefferson Letters: The Complete Correspondence Between Thomas Jefferson and Abigail and John Adams (1988, pg.488 | ISBN 978-0-8078-4230-0 [this is the Paperback version I b
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:08pmchalk up another notch in the victory column. i don’t get it – i keep hearing from the armchair Constitutional lawyers here that these types of things are so simple and that the courts will side with Religion. i know, i know, these radical activist judges are in Obama’s Communist agenda. or – or, just possibly, they are CORRECTLY interpreting the law. sorry folks, just because you want something to be true does not make it so. you lose. again.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:40pmatheist;
I recently concluded there should be an organization suing jurisdictions who Freedom from Religion Foundation (FFRF) bullies into submission. If these jurisdictions face legal challenges no matter what decision they make – I think they will make more religious-centered choices; limiting thin-skinned, selfish, ‘enlightened’ atheists’ influence. I throw out the suggestion – please weigh in with your thoughts.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:49pmDALE – it already happens this way. in the event that they lose, the FFRF pays the legal expenses from the case.
and in this case, i don’t think that the FFRF bullied the state of Colorado. perhaps in small towns across America you may be right. which is why is will restate this:
if Christians would stop doing illegal things, these lawsuits wouldn’t need to exist. keep your religion to yourself, and keep it out of the gov’t, and all will be well. i promise.
Report Post »SwordAndShield_ofTruth
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:49pmSo how then do you explain a hundred years of histroical precedence of judges and legislators SIDING with religion and religious thought? Whether it was a supreme court saying we are a Christian nation, a congress passing a law for the publication and distribution of Bibles to the public, or several Presidents invoking God and prayer, all under the Constitution!
Methinks your understanding of the law and judicial restraint are warped or at least misinformed. Colorado has every right to call for a day of prayer and fasting, and the FFR and other atheist activists are doing nothing more than hypocritically trying to force atheistic worship and practices (or lack thereof) onto an unwilling American public, and at the taxpayer expense too.
This will only backfire against the atheists. They have only been able to get their foot in the door because their previous offenses have been slight enough that a previously apathetic populace deemed it too costly to fight. Now that Americans are awake, expect a fight.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:53pmThese are radical activist judges advancing a Marxist agenda.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:09pmCOLT – good lord, that‘s how you know you’ve run out of rational arguments. you don’t like their decision, so they must be “communist marxist activist judges”. they couldn’t be interpreting the law in a factual secular manner. of course not, then you’re whole worldview flies out the window, and all the “facts” that you KNOW about our Constitution are null and void.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:33pmUp until the 1950′s the Supreme Court NEVER used the phrase “separation of church and state” to get rid of religious references or content. They understood, as written in the Northwest Ordinance in 1787 that “Religion, morality and knowledge“ were ”necessary for good government”. The phrase “separation of church and state” is NOT part of the US constitution. The phrase was used way out of context by liberal judges about 60 years ago. In their famous decision using that phrase, they never said anything else of the letter, nor quoted anything else by the founding fathers. They had NO historical support, but merely bias opinions. In 1883, the Illinois Supreme Court stated, in Richmond v. Moore, “Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of the Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise. In this sense and to this extent, our civilizations and our institutions are emphatically Christian”. All fifty state constitutions acknowledge God. As Benjamin Franklin said, “Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God and nature.” In 1892 the Supreme Court stated, “No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, state or national, because this is a religious people… This is a Christian nation.” This court went on to cite 87 precedents (prior actions, words, and rulings) to conclude that this was a “Christian nat
Report Post »petzrexx
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:13pmI have read the constitution, have joined the armed services to defend it. I UNDERSTAND IT FULLY. I don’t need a degree to understand it. I don’t need someone telling me what it means. I am smart enough to understand plain english. Armchair constitutionalists or whatever? Come on! If the “99.9%” or the Beck readers aren‘t qualified to talk about it and you admit that you aren’t either, why are you then spouting off? Let me give you and your other arrogant allies clue. IF the PEOPLE of Colorado didn’t like the day of prayer so much or needed it to end or felt like it threatend them in some way THEY could VOTE out the government that had the day of prayer. What you guys do is SUBVERT the constitution by using judges to go against the wishes of the PEOPLE who put in power those that they agree with to include those that encourage this day of prayer. NO ONE is FORCING athiests to “INSULT THEIR INTELLIGENCE” by making them pray. You can go on and on about the constitution but you will always be wrong. Always. No matter what. Athiests are always going to be wrong in the end. Always. Atiests: too scared to believe, too blind to see the truth and too arrogant to humble themselves to a higher power called God.
Report Post »JGraham III
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 3:37pmMy my! Another antitheist with its tail in a knot. Who cares if you “won another victory”? Are we become your enemy just because we tell you the truth? Never mind if you don’t accept it. In my book the only true atheists I have seen post anything on this website are those who are what they are but don’t get all fussed about someone who dares to disagree with their non-god position. The ones who are particularly egregious are those who go about seeking some allegedly illegal “christian” activity and when they find one, like the knight in shining armor, swoop down and using the tyranny of the courts to get it put “right” meaning their own religious world view. The dirty little secret is that “atheism” is a religion with all the accoutrements of the very thing from which they declare independence. The only difference is the atheist casts himself as “god”.
Report Post »Dale
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 4:16pmphillyatheist
“it already happens this way. in the event that they lose, the FFRF pays the legal expenses from the case.” – NO, it does not.
“and in this case, i don’t think that the FFRF bullied the state of Colorado. perhaps in small towns across America you may be right. which is why is will restate this:
if Christians would stop doing illegal things, these lawsuits wouldn’t need to exist. keep your religion to yourself, and keep it out of the gov’t, and all will be well. i promise.” – Recently, FFRF threatened (bullied) a Rhode Island town to remove a WWI cross. There are many examples, although Colorado is probably too big for FFRF to intimidate. Now the real question: WHO says a sanctioned day of prayer is illegal? Cite a Constitutional prohibition (you cannot). Except for recent supreme court (lower case intentional – as they are not supreme) rulings, you would have no argument at all. “Separation of Church and State” and 14th amendment right to ‘Privacy’ are recently manufactured concepts, not intended by the Framers. Go ahead, give it your best shot.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 6:19pm@Phillyatheist – Out religion demands that we spread it. It is against our religions conscience tolet you go to hell without at least trying to spred the Good News of Christ’s Salvation for all of mankind.
So, NO! We will NOT keep out religion to ourselves. We WILL speak and it’s up to YOU whether you accept the gift or not.
As an aside – I‘m sure you didn’t object to muslims being given a religious exemption to obamacare. I mean, wold’t that fall under the “equal protection” clause?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:37pm@SWORDANDSHIELD_OFTRUTH
Maybe because those judges were Christians?
Asked and answered.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:22pm@ModerationIsBest
“On Monday last the Circuit Court of the United States was opened in this town. The Hon Judge [Supreme Court Justice] Paterson presided. After the Jury were impaneled, the Judge delivered a most elegant and appropriate charge… Religion and morality were pleasingly inculcated and enforced as being necessary to good government, good order, and good laws, for “when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice”… After the charge was delivered, the Rev. Mr. Alden addressed the Throne of Grace in an excellent, well-adapted prayer.” New Hampshire Newspaper from Portsmouth 1800.
“Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.” James Madison
“Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand. The only foundation of a free Constitution is pure Virtue, and if this cannot be inspired into our People in a greater Measure than they have it now, They may change their Rulers and the forms of Government, but they will not obtain a lasting Liberty. They will only exchange Tyrants and Tyrannies” John Adams
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:31pmThose Christian judges were upholding the Constitution as originally intended.
“…we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain, that this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.” Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address
“”Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers. And it is the duty as well as the privilege and interest, of a Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” John Jay, Fist Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, to Jedidiah Morse February 28, 1797
After placing his hand on the Holy Bible and taking the oath of office on April 30,1789, President Washington made his views very clear concerning the source of authority:
“It would be peculiarly improper to omit, in this official act, my fervent supplication to that Almighty Being, Who rules over the universe, who presides in the council of nations, and whose providential aid can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States… Every step by which they have advanced seems to have been distinguished by some providential agency… we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained.”
Report Post »SwordAndShield_ofTruth
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:52pmYou responded to my post in a different thread, but in reply to your ignorance, here goes:
Freedom of religion is not the same of freedom of belief. Atheistic Soviets allowed the “freedom of belief”, the right believe what you want so long as you keep it to yourself. Our founding fathers preserved the right to religion: the right to believe, to worship, to act in public, to preach, and yes, to even influence public policy. Atheist activists (for not all atheists are as rabid as you) do exactly what they accuse Christians of doing: using the government to enforce a set of religious practices (in this case anti-religious) contrary to the will of the People AND the 1st Amendment (you are prohibiting the free excercise of religion).
“The opinions of men are not the object of civil government, nor under its jurisdiction” -Thomas Jefferson, Bill for the Defense of Religious Freedom
Report Post »Carlinpa
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:03pmPerhaps these judges should read Colorado’s state constitution “We, the people of Colorado, with profound reverence for the Supreme Ruler of the Universe,..”
Do the judges think that their own Constitution is Unconstitutional? LOL what evil idiots
Report Post »trotula
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:13pmVery nice.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:14pmi think they were talking about “He-Man”, not God. at least that’s my interpretation. but i grew up in the 80′s.
Report Post »christianUSA
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:41pmPeople, who judges are also, read into law and Bible implicitly and twistingly whatever they want and ignore the overt explicit and context against their strange or immoral views
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:55pmAll fifty state constitutions mention God in their preamble, thanking him for blessings of civil and religious liberty.
Here’s my state:
“We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty, and taking into our serious consideration the best means of establishing a good Constitution in this State for the sure foundation and more permanent security thereof, declare…”
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:50pm@PHILLY_ATHIEST
Then pray to He-Man and quit whining. Or perhaps She-Ra in your case…….
Report Post »CougarNick78
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:44amTo quote Michael Savage, on the current judges- The Stench From The Bench is making my teeth Clench…..
And to IN-Saneamerican and all the other Atheist Nazis, if you don’t like religion, move to effing North Korea. Congress didn’t establish its own church or give preference, you dumbarses. The state held a National Day of Prayer, which is usually welcome to everyone. It’s not their fault other faiths prefer to hide out and not congregate with others, in particular the Muslims……
So, why break everyone‘s rice bowls because one brat didn’t like their rice? Cuz, it‘s the one’s right to dominate and tyranize the majority.
We need another revolution in the country, or at least a long overdue enema.
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:00pm“which is usually to welcome everyone” yes everyone of a Christian denomination. Did you notice that the Colorado National Day of Prayer web site prominently displayed a Christian cross? That sure is welcoming to those of other non-Christian religions. Chalk up another victory for the FFRF and Americans everywhere.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:10pmthe stench from the bench I love that. I am so sick of these whiners. I wish we could sue ffrf for all court costs incurred by their medling. anyone offended by prayer needs to be voted off the island.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:35pmHORSE – if Christians would stop doing illegal things, these lawsuits wouldn’t need to exist. keep your religion to yourself, and keep it out of the gov’t, and all will be well. i promise.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:30pmThese atheists are fools. They never provide any historical evidence supporting their claims. They can only rely on new, modern, radical decisions made by activist judges.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 6:33pm@You atheists who say we are doing illegal stuff – PROVE IT!
What religion are we endorsing? Baptist? Catholic? *crickets* Oh you say CHRISTIANS? It’s the CHRISTIAN religion! Right?
Wrong! Christianity isn’t a “religion,” it’s a set of beliefs. Endorsing a RELIGION would be settin aside a CATHOLIC Day of prayer or a BAPTIST Day of prayer. THAT would be state endorsemen of a RELIGION!
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:41amHow does the state of Colorado (or any other state for that matter) having a prayer recognition of any kind constitute CONGRESS making a law respecting AN establisment of religion???
Riddle me that Batman…
Report Post »Can they name the establisment of religion (such as 1st Methodist church of springfield or 3rd Bapptist church of Danberry) that is being “respected” here???
Inquiring minds want to know…
phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:11pmperhaps you have a misunderstanding of the 1st Amendment and the Establishment clause. fortunately, there are people who are experts in this area. we call them lawyers and judges. seems like they may have a better sense of Constitutional law then you, and other Blaze readers. i know you think you’re experts, but you’re not. that‘s why it’s so hard for you to fathom.
Report Post »SwordAndShield_ofTruth
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:52pmAppeal to authority fallacy fail there philly. Not all lawyers and judges are good lawyers and judges.
Report Post »orkydorky
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:59pmatheist;
Report Post »And what makes you an expert on the constitution, I suspect you must be a Harvard grad that studied under Obamas’ guest lecturings. There are so many experts on the left, I don‘t know why anyone would even want to know what’s in the Constitution or use any common sense when applying it. We must get accustomed to the term comrade or be lost. I guess, I’d rather be lost, I don’t consider these people my friends.
phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:01pmSWORD – maybe not, but they likely have a better understanding of the law than you and 99.9% of readers here, including me.
the FFRF has every right to bring lawsuits where they see fit, and Christians have every right to fight them. if you don‘t want to accept the Court’s ruling on these issues then i suggest you find another country that will side with Religious views all the time. i hear Iraq is nice this time of year.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:05pmORKY – read my above comment. i’m not claiming to be an expert. i’m claiming that the lawyers and judges are. capiche?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:20pmThe first Amendment does not say, Congress shall make no law respecting religion, It does not say, Congress shall make no law establishing a religion, It does not say, Congress shall not respect religion, It does not say, Congress shall not respect an establishment of religion, It does not say, Congress shall make no law about religion. It says, Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT OF religion.
Do you guys know what an Establishment is?
ESTAB’LISHMENT, n. 1) The act of establishing, founding, ratifying or ordaining a constituted order or system. 2) Settled regulation; form; ordinance; system of laws; constitution of government. 3) The episcopal form of religion, so called in England.
Exactly what Establishment of Religion did the State ordain, institute, or organize here? There is no exclusive State mandated Congregation, Denomination, appointed Priest, or Catechism anywhere. Religion, in general, is not anywhere prohibited in the Constitution. The constitution prohibits any Government from instituting an ecclesiastical institution, or making any organized religion exist as one inseparable entity with the Government.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:27pmWell Philly you are no expert either. We have some lawyers and judges who disagree with other lawyers and judges and they are all experts according to your statement. So which group is correct, Einstein? Of course, your answer will be your side. Then I will say my side and there lies the conundrum.
It is very simple to understand what the Constitution says. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to recognize what it is saying. I don’t see the State government as Congress, but apparently you do.
There two entities State rights and Federal rights. Federal laws do not trump state laws if the Federal law does not have explicit control given it through the Constitution.
Report Post »kdshell1
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:39amOne more example of our law schools and judges perverting what our Founding Fathers said and meant by it. A close examination shows that most of them — especially those who wrote the Constitution — were either strong Christians or believers in Christian principles. They were clear in saying that the government cannot declare any particular Christian denomination the official state religion but just as clear (or clearer?) in declaring that Judeo-Christian principles were the foundation of the Constitution itself and must be closely followed — not denied or denigrated. This court’s ruling is a direct assault and violation of the 2nd Amendment protection of religious liberty, by both denying free expression of religious belief but also ruling that religious expression is forbidden for government officials, thereby making atheism the official state religion, contrary to wishes of those who actually wrote the words of the Constitution and gave commentary in the Federalist Papers and in their own personal letters. These judges should be impeached!
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:36amNo one‘s saying Coloradans CAN’T have a day of prayer. No one’s saying that.
They‘re saying the Colorado State government can’t be the body that DECLARES or ENDORSES such an organized day of prayer.
Report Post »trotula
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:12pmCongress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor prohibit the free exercise thereof. 1) This is Colorado State government. No federal congress involved. 2) Endorsing a religion is not the same thing as establishing a religion. 3) I don‘t want to live in a country where the president can’t say, “God bless America.”
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:31pm*sigh*
You’re committing the same error as Glenn does in that Internet bumper for his radio show that repeats his critique of Jessica Ahlquist. Everything you just said is absolutely wrong.
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Incorporation_of_the_Bill_of_Rights#Amendment_I
https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Everson_v._Board_of_Education
“The ‘establishment of religion’ clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever form they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between Church and State.’” 330 U.S. 1, 15-16.
Everytime I hear the Alhquist bumper, I can feel my IQ drop
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 5:36pmThe person who is the President of the United States can say “God Bless America” all he wants to as an American citizen, whose rights the person retains while he is president. We’re not talking about acts of any elected officials as free human beings.
The President is never empowered to say “God bless America” AS THE PRESIDENT. The powers an elected official wields AS an elected official, bearing the full weight and authority of the government, federal, state, or local, can never endorse, or in the words of Everson, “aid one religion over another”.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:34pmThe Virginia Bill for Religious Liberty, written by Jefferson, states, “Almighty God hath created the mind free”. If ever, our founding fathers thought that the mere mention or acknowledgement of God would be unconstitutional, they would have as well forced upon us a communist nation, wherein a few men have supreme power over all other men, reject accountability and detest universal principles and natural laws binding on all men. Madison was coauthor with George Mason of Virginia’s Declaration of Rights of 1776, and stated, “it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity, towards each other”. Our founding fathers never thought that encouraging religious principles would ever be prohibited by the same Constitution they wrote. The first amendment denied to Government the power to legislate in order to create an ecclesiastical institution run by the selfsame Government. In order to avoid preference to one sect or denomination, Government was forbidden from legislating concerning any one Establishment. The first Amendment does not say, Congress shall make no law respecting religion, Congress shall not respect religion, or Congress shall make no law about religion. It says, Congress shall make no law respecting an ESTABLISHMENT OF religion. Jefferson wrote in a 1802 letter that he didn’t want his administration to be a “government without religion,” but one that would “strengthen… religious freedom”.
Report Post »RodT82721
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:28amOnce again we see the destruction of liberals leaving their own soiled nest to move to a new nest to soil.
CO was conservative, mountain state, then large members of the progressive religion started moving in, now they have taken over.
Judges are the mainstay of liberalism. The liberal ideas never seem to fly in elected legislators venues, so they always move to the courts to get their way. Think AGW!
We no longer have a rule of law, we have a rule of judges, most are political appointees, and big progressive believers. Voters no longer have the right to their opinions.
If you are ever forced to defend yourself from a govt campaign, don’t expect justice from a judge, what you will get is an activist’s opinion. Been there, done that.
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:21amWhy don’t Christians pray in secret like Jesus tells you to.
Report Post »Lesbian Packing Hollow Points
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:50amReligious people thrive on public religiosity.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:52pmI must be reading the wrong Bible:
I will speak of thy testimonies also before kings, and will not be ashamed. Psalms 119:146
Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD. Psalms 33:12
And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles… Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 10:18, 32-33
Hear, O heavens, and give ear, O earth: for the LORD hath spoken, I have nourished and brought up children, and they have rebelled against me. Isaiah 1:2
“…that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.” Daniel 4:17
“We have forgotten God. We have forgotten the gracious hand which preserved us in peace, and multiplied and enriched and strengthened us; and we have vainly imagined, in the deceitfulness of our hearts, that all these blessings were produced by some superior wisdom and virtue of our own. Intoxicated with unbroken success, we have become too self-sufficient to feel the necessity of redeeming and preserving grace, too proud to pray to the God that made us!” Abraham Lincoln http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/fast.htm
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:02pmI guess all the founding fathers favored “public religiosity”:
Thomas Jefferson said, in his second Inaugural Address (1805), “I shall need, too, the favor of that Being in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old, from their native land and planted them in a country flowing with all the necessaries and comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with His providence and our riper years with His wisdom and power, and to whose goodness I ask you to join in supplications with me that He will so enlighten the minds of your servants, guide their councils, and prosper their measures that whatsoever they do shall result in your good, and shall secure to you the peace, friendship, and approbation of all nations.”
On January 21, 1781, Philadelphia printer Robert Aitken (1734-1802) petitioned Congress to officially sanction a publication of the Old and New Testament which he was preparing at his own expense:
“RESOLVED,
THAT the United States in Congress assembled highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion, as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorize him to publish this Recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.”
Report Post »ApostolicIlx
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:16amMy favorite Judge story. I’m standing in the Will County Illinois Court Room, when the Prosecutor tells the Judge that their witness has fled the country. The Judge looks at the Defense Attorney, a young female without much courtroom experience and says, “Your client is guilty, I sentence him to 90 days in the county jail.” She say,”You can’t do that Your Honor, we haven’t even had a trial.” He says,”That’s what I have malpractice insurance for!” My pucker factor went up to 12. She said,”I’ll be seeing you before the bar.” FYI nothing happened to him. He’s still there.
Report Post »DDD
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:14amSo, go around the b@st@rds! Hold an “unofficial” Day of Prayer.
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:11amThe one thing athiest don’t get is we can pray whenever and wherever we want! And I suggest to everyone who believes in God, and His Son Jesus Christ to keep praying, beg God for deliverance from these people! Colorado’s Day of Prayer. keep doing it.. they cannot stop you from closing your eyes and begging God to save this country! They cannot stop you from having faith.. they can stop us from praying in public out loud, but these Godless people cannot stop us from having our faith, our prayers. These judges are so far from the truth.. they seriously need to read their constitution and with wonder see how God came into play in the constitution! That our founding fathers were men of God, and not the Godless bunch of hypocrites we have now! Lord in heaven help us all!
Report Post »cassandra
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:07amI’m so sick of these atheist re-writing our Constitution , it give us,the states, We The People the RIGHT to pray not take it AWAY the right to pray in school, the right to pray in a court, the right to pray in any state or government building Congress shall make no law repecting an establishment of religion or PROHIBITING THE FREE EXERCISE THEREOF OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH when our We The People going to start holding our judges accountable for NOT following the Constitution
Report Post »afishfarted
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:16ambingo
Report Post »FUrther evidence why all judges–even the surpreme court–need to be elected, not appointed
otoa
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:07amone time a man said he feared a man that prayed than a with an army.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:04amWell, I am very much convinced that in the long run God will have the last say and won’t even cheer..
May God bless all those who stand for the righteous no matter what the immature mortals do or say to bring down prayer and religion.
Report Post »Vickie Dhaene
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:15amAmen.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:26pmIMCHRISTIAN – no one, and i mean NO ONE is attempting to bring down prayer or your religion. pray 24/7 as far as i or any Atheist is concerned. the gov’t is required by our secular Constitution to treat all people equally, whether they are Christian, Hindu, Muslim, or Atheist. having a national day of Christian prayer is a gov’t endorsement of religion, which has been ruled un-Constitutional time an time again. is this really so hard to understand? you are so blinded by your faith. have you ever tried to see life through other people’s eyes? what happened to this “empathy” thing that the Bible speaks so often about?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 1:58pm@phillyatheist Yet, you provide no historical facts. Let me guess, you can only go back a few decades? You’re confusing religious content, references or principles with ecclesiastical institutions, and organized religion. The constitution never prohibits the former.
While encamped on the banks of a river, Washington was approached by Delaware Indian chiefs who desired that their youth be trained in American schools. In Washington’s response, he first told them that “Congress… will look on them as on their own children.” That is, we would train their children as if they were our own. He then commended the chiefs for their decision, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.”
Report Post »HKS
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:00amFrom what I am seeing of judges, they are not qualified to judge anything. They”re all political and should be fired.
Report Post »trotula
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:59am*sigh* OK people. Our founding fathers could NOT have been more clear: “Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion, nor prohibit the free exercise thereof.” Tell me HOW in Colorado having a day of prayer is congress establishing a religion? It seems to me that these judges ARE prohibiting the free exercise thereof, but that’s another story. Sheesh…can’t these judges read???
Report Post »makeemstop
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:19amAgreed 100%. Furthermore… How can their State Laws trump Federal Laws?
Report Post »Charybdis
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:59amThese imbecile judges have no concept of history. The framers of the Constitution allowed prayer in the U.S. Capital, for cryin’ out loud! So obviously someone misunderstood the intent of the 1st Amendment. And I really don’t think it was those who actually wrote it! Fools!!
Report Post »AllLost
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:46amHow is a day of prayer endorsing any singular religion, or faith?
I am tired of the religion of athiesism. It takes more faith to believe in no god or gods than it does to believe in God.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:08amNot all religions pray. Are you trying to elevate the world views that pray above those that don’t?
You think it takes more faith to believe in no god…but most of the world thinks that you’ve picked the wrong god. It must take a lot of faith to believe you’ve picked the right one.
You probably think your faith is strong, and you are confident you picked the right one, but the faith is also strong (if not stronger) with believers of Muhammad and Vishnu.
Given that every religion thinks that 99% of the gods are false gods, it’s not a huge leap of faith to just round up to 100%.
Report Post »mdeputy7
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:23am@SaneAmerican
I just realized something very interesting. The constitution NEVER restricts the government from endorsing religion. It only restricts congress from making any laws that establish one or restrict one. Why are we allowing the ACLU and so many others to win these battles on false pretenses? It doesn’t matter what religions believe. It doesn‘t matter who’s ‘offended’ (like babies). The government is allowed to say anything it wants. It is simply not allowed to MAKE LAWS about it.
Report Post »Aron
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:46amI’m an atheist, and I find this disgusting. We have freedom of religion, not a freedom from religion.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:54amA freedom from religion we exterminate religion in all places. People need to be free to think and practice as they will.
However, using the government to promote religion and religious practice is a misuse of government and our tax dollars. Those who want to promote religion support their churches already, taking money from other tax payers to promote their religious beliefs is a form of theft.
Report Post »ApostolicIlx
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:57amThank you Aron.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:58amThank you for your sanity, ARON! I always wonder what atheists who want to remove our Judeo-Christian heritage, roots, culture and core envision that this country will look like if they get their wish.
Report Post »mdeputy7
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:18amI just realized something very interesting. The constitution NEVER restricts the government from endorsing religion. It only restricts congress from making any laws that establish one or restrict one. Why are we allowing the ACLU and so many others to win these battles on false pretenses?
Report Post »IslandAtheist
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:30amIf you believe in freedom of religion, then why do you support the government be telling us when to pray?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:11pm@IslandAtheist The Government is not forcing you to pray. There’s a huge difference. You atheists get so sentimental, and easily get offended. I wen to the Capitol building yesterday, and it had Christian paintings, statues, references and symbols on display. And guess what? At no point in time was I ever forced to bow down to them, or to pray to them. Congress, since the days of our founding, holds prayers at the beginning of every session. Guess what? No one is forced or mandated to pray.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:23pmSome people re just over their heads. Somehow, to them, any mention of God is religion, or an establishment of Religion. Oh, brother… If that were the case, our Declaration would be deemed unconstitutional, and be prohibited on Government property for display. This nation has always acknowledged that our rights come from God, and not men. Every state constitution mentions God in their preambles. Last time I checked, the States created the federal Government, and we the People crated the States.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:44amThis isn’t just a victory for “atheist activists”, it’s a victory for all Americans that respect the establishment clause of the Constitution.
The institutions of religion and government are best separated, then they are less likely to be corrupted by one another.
To all of you who think this is an awful decision — what if a Muslim governor got elected next year, and changed it to a Muslim day of prayer instead of a Christian one? Would you appreciate that? By letting a law like this stand, it would set the precedent to allow that to happen.
Churches are great at religion, and the government is good enough at taking care of State affairs. Mixing the two is always a bad idea!
Report Post »ApostolicIlx
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:01amSANEAMERICAN Did is say “Christian day of prayer”? No. Your logic is flawed. In the words of Spock, “Highly illogical.” So try another argument, or Surrender Dorothy…Sorry, movies on my mind.
Report Post »CulperGang
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:07amMuslim are not Americans. THEY can’t be by their OWN cultural standards. YOU need to read up on their culture. They have to chose between one culture or the other. If they move into the political arena they are going to try to do here what they are doing in Britain. REPLACE the existing culture with theirs and wipe you dumbed won westerners out. Out breeding you and getting into office FORCING YOU TO TOLERATE THEIR CULTURE AT THE EXPENSE OF YOURS.
Report Post »Please educate yourself to what is going on in Britain and Europe with Muslim presence there in the past 20 years. “Multiculturism DOESN’T WORK” says the leaders of Britain, Germany and France.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1355961/Nicolas-Sarkozy-joins-David-Cameron-Angela-Merkel-view-multiculturalism-failed.html
So I suggest if you want to keep your culture. You NOT elect them UNTIL they are at leas FOUR generation. Better yet show them the door. PC is going to kill you off. THOSE people are NOT playing.
RetAF
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:16amSANEAMERICAN, to properly respect something, you must first understand it, and you do NOT understand the First Amendment. The FEDERAL government is prohibited from establishing an official national church, such as the Church of England in the United Kingdom. During the time of the framers, including MANY years after the Constitution, several of the Several States had official State religions. If the intent was to banish all religion from government completely, they would have done so at the state level. The intent was only to prevent a FEDERAL establishment of a national religion AND prevent the FEDERAL government from prohibiting the fee exercise of. Nothing less, nothing more. Reading the words of the founders would enlighten one even more that the First Amendment is a simple text that means PRECISELY what is says. Any belief otherwise is an activist trying (and failing) to manipulate the Constitution to say what they want it to say to fit their own agenda.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:19amDeclaring a “day of prayer” is promoting the a religious activity that not all religions and worldviews recognize. Praying is inherently a religious activity, and the government has no business promoting religion. This is a country made up of many, not all believe like you, not all worship a god, or the same god that you do, yet they all pay taxes.
Why should their tax dollars go to promote your religious beliefs when it is well established that the institution of Church and State are separate?
On a larger scale, it is silly and redundant for the government to be promoting prayer when there are many MANY organizations doing that on a daily basis — CHURCHES.
To legitimize a day of prayer by the government would also be setting a precedent for there to be a day of non-prayer established by the government. Do you want some atheist lawmaker telling you what day of the year you SHOULDN’T pray? It‘s simply not the government’s business!
I’m sure all of the “small government advocates” here can respect this.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:29amRETAF, I think you are have trouble reading.
I did not say it was a violation of the Constitution, but a victory for those who believe in the ideals espoused in the Constitution.
“…it’s a victory for all Americans that respect the establishment clause of the Constitution”
For people who believe in a separation of their Church and their Government, this ruling is in alignment with those ideals. It is well known that the Constitution is a declaration of restrictions of powers that the Federal government has, however it embodies the American ideals of government.
Of those ideals, the establishment clause is one of those that differentiate the United States from most other governments, the idea that religion and government are NOT the same institution. Our government should remain pure, as well as our religious institutions. This important distinction is one of the important things that differentiates us from countries like Iran, that have a totalitarian, State-run religious authority.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:47amCULPERGANG – Muslims as well as anybody else can be Americans. The Constitution decides who Americans are, not some archaic religious teachings. Not all Muslims ascribe to the extremist teachings you are referring to, just as not all Catholics are against birth control and abortion, and not all Americans hate Iran. People choose to believe what they want.
If a Muslim believes in America and wants to contribute, that Muslim is just as good as you or me if they hold up their end of the deal. What you fear is change. Change is constantly happening. When things get too bad, things happen to fix them. If things don’t happen to fix them, then they must not have been that bad to begin with. An equilibrium is always found.
Last decade people feared Mexicans. This decade they fear Muslims, perhaps the Irish will make an appearance in the following decade — we are America, we deal with these things, and have been dealing with fear-mongers like yourselves ever since the first boat hit Ellis Island. We always find a way to get by, and then history tells us it wasn’t nearly half as bad as we made it out to be at the time.
Look at all the Japanese we locked up during WWII for fear of them being spies. These were American citizens we imprisoned for nothing else other than where they were born, yet not a SINGLE ONE of them were proven to be Japanese spies. This is us imprisoning Americans for unfounded fears that things were many MANY times worse than reality.
Calm
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 12:10pm@ apostolicilx – Did you notice that the Colorado National Day of Prayer web site displayed a Christian cross on it? I think that clearly implies a Christian day of prayer.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 2:43pmThis notion that congress, or any Government can’t “promote” or recommend any religious activity is ridiculous. In 1789 the Northwest Ordinance was passed by Congress and stated that “religion, morality and knowledge“ was ”necessary for good government”. The constitution does not prohibit religion. The Constitution prohibits Government from coexisting as one single entity with ecclesiastical institutions or organized religion, as was Rome and England.
Governor Morris, signer of the Constitution, said, “There must be religion. When that ligament is torn, society is disjointed and its members perish. The nation is exposed to foreign violence and domestic convulsion. Vicious rulers, chosen by vicious people, turn back the current of corruption to its source. Placed in a situation where they can exercise authority for their own emolument, they betray their trust. They take bribes. They sell statutes and decrees. They sell honor and office. They sell their conscience. They sell their country… But the most important of all lessons is the denunciation of ruin to every state that rejects the precepts of religion.”
James Madison, declared in 1785, “Before any man can be considered as a member of Civil Society, he must be considered as a subject of the Governour of the Universe…”
“Man will ultimately be governed by God or by tyrants.”- Benjamin Franklin
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 12:39pmCOLT1860 – As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion, it would make no sense for the government to promote this religion or any other.
As our government is representative of all of it’s citizens, unfairly favoring one religion over another, or the religious against the non-religious is simply bad government. It is a government going out of it‘s way to provide a disservice to it’s stakeholders.
“The constitution does not prohibit religion.” – nor should it, but it is not a religious body. If you want one of those, look to Iran or Saudi Arabia.
The Right likes to characterize this as a “war on religion”, but it’s quite the opposite. Keeping the institutions of Church and State separate makes them both better institutions, not allowing one to corrupt the other.
Governor Morris is wrong. Norway, one of the most peaceful, prosperous, law-abiding and moral nations is overwhelmingly atheist with a secular government. It is not a requirement to have religion in your society for it to be successful. Many people are blinded to this fact.
Finally, religion is religion with or without the government’s endorsement. Those theists insecure as much to demand their government promote their religion need to look inward at their own lack of faith or worth of their belief system if they have to have some government validate their beliefs.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 2:27pm@SaneAmerican That treaty states “the GOVERNMENT”, not nation or people. The Government does not include the people, nor is it inclusive of the whole nation. Nation refers to the people and their Government. Government and nation is not the same. You fail to differentiate between very important words. Nation, Government, People, Church, Religion, Establishment, etc. The government wanted to avoid an ecclesiastical INSTITUTION existing as one united entity with Government. They did not want Government to be oblivious to religion in general. For this reason, Jefferson said “Church”, and not religion. In fact, Jefferson wrote in a 1802 letter that he didn’t want his administration to be a “government without religion,” but one that would “strengthen… religious freedom”. Our judges are bound to rule according to OUR history, our heritage and our organic laws. Your whole analysis is twisted. Our Government is not an ecclesiastical body, or body of appointed clergy men. Our Government is not what Rome or England was. That’s what the treaty means.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 2:29pmWhile encamped on the banks of a river, Washington was approached by Delaware Indian chiefs who desired that their youth be trained in American schools. In Washington’s response, he first told them that “Congress… will look on them as on their own children.” That is, we would train their children as if they were our own. He then commended the chiefs for their decision, “You do well to wish to learn our arts and our ways of life and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are. Congress will do everything they can to assist you in this wise intention.”
All this lines up clearly with the US Northwest Ordinance, made Law in 1787, which states that “Religion, morality, and knowledge“ are ”NECESSARY to good government and the happiness of mankind.”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 12, 2012 at 2:29pmOn January 21, 1781, Philadelphia printer Robert Aitken (1734-1802) petitioned Congress to officially sanction a publication of the Old and New Testament which he was preparing at his own expense:
“RESOLVED,
THAT the United States in Congress assembled highly approve the pious and laudable undertaking of Mr. Aitken, as subservient to the interest of religion, as well as an instance of the progress of arts in this country, and being satisfied from the above report of his care and accuracy in the execution of the work, they recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorize him to publish this Recommendation in the manner he shall think proper.”
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:41amDo any atheists or leftists ever wonder why our country is being destroyed simultaneous with the attempt to remove God from our founding and core?
Report Post »Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:37amIf I were governor I would make whatever proclamations I wished regardless of the court. Its free speech. People who didn’t agree could just ignore it.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:47amThe Governor here in Colorado is a leftist-funded loon. Sadly, he won’t be praying or fighting for the right to have a day of prayer.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:02amThis country is free. If you want every day to be a day of prayer, then pray every day.
Why must you feel the need to have the Governor tell you to pray?
Report Post »GaltLine
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:02pmWhy must you feel the need to have the Governor tell you to pray?
It’s called leadership. Authority has it’s responsibilities, such as requesting God’s help before undertaking any great enterprise.
A fool and his God are soon parted.
Report Post »SaneAmerican
Posted on May 13, 2012 at 2:11amIt is the farthest thing from leadership. Being elected to office does not mean somebody knows more than I do, nor does it place them in a position of moral authority over any citizen; history tells us this tends to be quite the opposite. Because a man is elected to execute the business affairs of the State or Country does not give him the right to make me subject to his God or Gods, or lack of gods. There were people who took offices that married the authority of God with their rule — they were called Kings, and the last I checked, this is not a kingdom, but a republic.
Having an office does not place his worldview above mine, using the office to promote his personal religious beliefs is not leadership, but an arrogant abuse of power. I did note vote for a candidate to by my moral nanny to tell me when to pray and to whom I should pray. That is the job of busy bodies who cannot mind their own business.
Report Post »BeeAlert
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:34amHaving just finished reading “The Jefferson Lies” by David Barton, I must point out that Jefferson himself insisted that calling for a Day of Prayer was precisely the domain of state governors, and not of the President, under the 1st Amendment. When is this country going to have judges that know the law?
Report Post »CulperGang
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 11:10amThese judges are hoping that YOU don’t know the law. That is how they have been getting over and enslaving the US. Did you know that the EO was only supposed to extend to the “sundries” in the White House!!………..not for “Policies made by the POTUS.”
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on May 11, 2012 at 10:32amTime to start ignoring the princes of the bar?
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