Let the Battle Begin: HC Lawsuit Opens in FL Court
- Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:01am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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Since the passing of President Obama’s sweeping health care legislation, upset states and businesses have been looking for ways to undermine the law. Today, they get their day in court.
At 9 a.m. ET in a Pensacola, Florida courtroom, U.S. District Judge Roger Vinsonin will hear arguments by states who say the law’s individual mandate to buy insurance is unconstitutional, while the National Federation of Independent Businesses will argue that the mandate will force higher costs on small business.
The Justice Department, citing the governments right to levy taxes on its citizens, will ask the judge to dismiss the case.
“In the US Constitution there’s no place in it where the federal government is given the power to say, if you are sitting at home watching television that you’ve got to buy a product of any type, especially in this case a health care policy,” said Florida Attorney General Bill McCollum.
In August, a judge refused a similar request from the Justice Department to dismiss a lawsuit by Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli, concluding that there are legitimate constitutional questions raised by the law.
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Comments (63)
squonk1pb
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 12:32pmWhat about nullification by a state (or preferably states) under the 10th Amendment? Under this amendment, any state (or a group of states) would be able to nullify federal law(s) that are deemed to be unconstitutional, and therefore, not within the scope of the federal government.
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
Report Post »jessieH
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 12:12pmDoesn’t matter to me about obamacare, I will not be assimilated into their crapola! It is un-Constitutional, to try to force us to buy anything! I flat reject and refuse to co-operate!
Report Post »ArmedAndNotDangerous
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 12:06pmAll along Mr. Obama claimed there will be no tax increase to families with incomes under $250,000, yet his own Justice department’s argument is the health care premiums are actually a tax, and therefore constitutional.
So the Obama administration is telling us the premiums are actually taxes, and virtually everyone in the country must pay the premiums. Further, the IRS is the enforcer of those premiums.
How can health care premiums, under ObamaCAre, not be considered a tax? The justice department is arguing the premiums ARE a tax, and the IRS will enforce collections.
Can anyone argue the premiums are NOT really taxes?
Report Post »missmarie
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:27amI pray that this unconstitutional takeover of our health care system is overturned. I still can’t bring myself to debate the specifics of this plan, I’m still outraged that my freedoms and liberties are being taken away at such an alarming rate. I suppose the positive of this is that I’ve taken the time to learn the history and research the facts of the origin of health care insurance and government involvement in providing coverage. In my opinion, the history provides all the facts I need to determine the government should not be involved.
Report Post »adifftake
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:16amAdd your comments
Report Post »WINGWRENCH
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:08amI had affordable health care, until my premium went up just over 20%. No change in coverage and no claims, the only difference was Obamacare had passed. The first words out of the mouth of the Blue Cross rep was “the increase is not due to the new legislation”, bull! As a small business owner, just who do they think is going to pay for these added costs, first clue, I’m not going to eat it.
Here is an idea; tell the insurance companies to go have sex with themselves. When you go to the doctor, hospital or clinic tell them you are paying out of your pocket and ask for the prices up front, if they are too high, negotiate fees. There is no way we can survive in a society where we have to pay protection money to live. So what’s next, car dealers charging $1000 an hour to fix your car so then we have to buy car repair insurance. It’s time to stop this nonsense and take a stand.
For the democrat running for governor of Florida, take a stand against Obamacare and you will be the next governor of the state.
Report Post »Uber
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:52amLets hope sanity prevails in court and the start of HC roll back begins in the court and never has to be repealed, declared illegal and unconstitutional works for me.
Report Post »rocktruth
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:47amMore power to the states!
Cut Federal spending now!
Report Post »GBGB
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:42amRemember in November! Not a single vote for anyone that voted FOR this nightmare! Personally, I’m still hoping and praying there will be a way to REPEAL this thing. I know, chances are probably pretty slim, but I continue to pray about it and refuse to give up hope.
Report Post »dollfin
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:05amOBAMACARE is purely…..redistribution of wealth, and the beginning of the takeover of the entire health care industry. It’s as simple as that, and so much of it, is so very unconstitutional, it would be laughable, if it was only on a board game. But, unfortunately, it has the potential of being un-reversible cancer in our country, if not dealt with now!
Report Post »CtrL_DS
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:53amAnd I quote “this will not be a tax”. Now because you pushed it trough failing to convince the American People, and now to make it Constitutional you call it a tax??? Come on people demand the TRUTH (HOPE)!
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:51amDebrabate: THANK YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!!!!! (Family serves and sacrifices, too!)
Report Post »Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:45amthank you… and it is an honor to serve as active duty or family-member… the honor is truely ours.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:44amDebrabate, we are already provided with healthcare, too. It’s just not through the federal government. Or through the union. Our healthcare is magnificent. We make co-payments we consider reasonable. My husband went to college and became a software engineer and makes a good living. This bill makes it a very bad business decision for corporations to keep employees health care insurance as part of their benefit package. It will be far less expensive and way, way far less extra paperwork to simply pay the fines and throw us all onto that wonderful government insurance plan than to pay for the insurance the way it is set to go up in price. We are all, that is, those of us not elite enough to be in the union or fed employees, going to be subject to a great loss in both the level of care available to us and in money to get what we need. I have run the numbers against the kind of care we receive now, and it will be a step way down in care for most of us who work in the private sector. On top of that, since fed and union employees don’t have to pay into the national healthcare system, not only will we be forced to buy private insurance to cover what the great govt insurance doesn’t, we will be forced to pay the share of fed and union employees which they are exempted from paying in order to pay for this abomination. So now we will also be paying other people’s taxes as well as our own. As well, we will have to pay a large percentage (15% before adjustment) of our gross annual income toward our wonderful “national healthcare plan!” Oh why, oh why am I not jumping up and down with happiness and delight at this great news!!!! That is how they plan on redistributing the private sector “wealth” of the non-union American middle class. No flowery or legal sounding words should be used to sugar-coat this thing. It is not “merely this,’ or “merely that.” It is a behemoth abomination of a thing which gives the government so much control over the individual in regulations and percentages of personal income which can be taken right from our bank accounts by the feds without a warrant. Right now, they at least need a warrant. This bill gives them total 24 hour real time total access to all of our assets and it gives that access to every employee of the “health commissioner.” That is just plain frightening.
Report Post »Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:44amI just still cant fathom as to WHY people want to be insured by the government. Lets put it this way, government run healthcare, which is what all Active Duty Military members get, is… umm… not that great. Retired service members have a choice to go to Civilian doctors… for the most part…. I cant wait til we retire in 7 months!!!!!!
Example: I have been waiting for near 2 YEARS to get an appointment for neck pain. They are so over burdened that they either never have appointments, cancel thier own appointments and then repeat the no available appointment cycle, or best yet… prescribe tylenol.
There is a running joke in the military… head pops off, medical will screw it back on for you and give you a tylenol… tylenol cures EVERYTHING.
And the Pelosi-peddlers and Obamites actually think it will be better than what civilians get and will “ease” the over crowding. All I can say is I want to know where I can get the stuff that Pelosi smokes!
Report Post »A Patriot
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:18amHow about it America lets show the AFL-CIO what happens when you ram legislation down our throat. The lawsuit in Florida should be like a snowball running downhill. Every state in America should follow Florida and file a lawsuit on the grounds the bill is unconstitutional. If the federal judiciary does not like that then congress can abolish them. It has been down in the past and it needs to be done again starting with the federal courts in California.
Report Post »greggor
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:14amLike most everything else, these days.. this all comes down to “which side of the isle” upon which, the judge sits. This is dangerous.. as once again, we will end up having the courts decide law, as opposed to upholding it.
Report Post ».
newsguyfyi
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:12amDemocrats Claim Congress Has Authority to Make Everyone Buy Snuggies and Jupiter Jacks http://optoons.blogspot.com/2010/03/democrats-claim-congress-has-authority.html
Report Post »benrush
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:08amThe feds have overstepped their authority in many ways, but we are patiently correcting the misguided.
Report Post »belleharbor
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:06amShut down the clown and his health care law and make us happy no FREELOADERS
Report Post »m2ther
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:03amWell this will be interesting and my hope is that there is some type of questions raise about the validity of the entire bill. This was done underhandedly and has placed a sour taste in the mouth of many Americans.
Report Post »Gary_K
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:40amI hope the states have all their ducks in a row, they are going to need it.
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:37amWe should all pray diligently until a ruling has been handed down. This is just another job killer, plus this bill is packed with liberty killers also. First fall to your knees in prayer, then stand up and let your voices be heard.
Report Post »Eagle07
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 1:26pmYep just taking from the resp[onsible and giving to the irresponsible.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:34amLOL everyone. Have you read this bill? I have, several times and it is an abomination. It gives the govt the power to kick in your doors and give you shots. It gives the health commissioner and all their representatives plus the irs 24 hour real time access to each and every bank account of every American citizen. Union members and all federal govt employees and all of the fed govt employees are EXEMPT from having to participate in any program created under this law. And yes, there are death panels. They call themselves actuaries. They get to decide, based on what you own in property and pay in taxes, whether or not you are eligible for life-saving treatment. READ THE BILL READ THE BILL READ THE BILL. These are just a very few of the highlights. It gets worse and worse and assumes more and more control of single American citizens lives with every page. We had better hope and pray to God that the courts save us from this.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:39amI typoed. All of the federal govt employee FAMILIES are also exempted from having to participate. If this is so good for America and all of us must pay into it for it to be affordable, how is it that millions and millions of union workers and their families and millions of fed employees don’t have to pay into it. It is a heavy tax burden laid squarely on the backs of middle class non union workers who will now not be able to get the quality health care the elites and union workers will be given, but we pay for with other taxes. We should be revolting with pitchforks!
Report Post »Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:41amoh yes I read the bill… took me 3 weeks to do it because I had to look up a lot of the legalese. to me that (and thier own admissions) is how I know that the people who voted FOR it didnt read it while the people who voted AGAINST it probably got 1/4 of the way through it and were disgusted enough to give up.
Report Post »tobywil2
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:42amDoes paying taxes and owing property give you an advantage or disadvantage it obtaining health care?
Report Post »Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:47amthe reason federal employees are exempt is because we are already provided with medical insurance (tricare). My husband is about to retire from the military and let me tell you We are still not happy because these people that make laws are allowing people who dont work to have the same medical benefits that someone who has honorably served in the military for 20 or more years has… and thier copay/deductable will be less, if any, than the retired military.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:59amTobywill2, depends on HOW MUCH you own and whether you were smart enough to set aside retirement money. They have given themselves the right to take your property and garnish your retirement funds without notice to you. How much your care will cost is directly relative to what you earn. If you are earning right now app. 50K per year, you will pay 10% of you GROSS income towards your healthcare. It will be deducted from your assets, bank account, etc. People making over 80K WILL pay 10% of their income and assets. There is no discussion. It gets even better from there.
Report Post »Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:05amToby, my understanding is this: a full time employee can seek a tax credit “assistance” or other cost sharing efforts if the size of the business is big enough. note: it is only the employee… the employer may not seek help to the extent that the employee can. In fact, the employer may face fees and fines if they put the employee on a wait list past 90 days. So right now the standard is anywhere between 6-12 months. now an employer has pretty much 3 months to get them insured…. UNLESS they have I think is was 40-60 employees… cant remember the exact number but it is somewhere in that range.
SMALL businesses (up to 25-30 employees I think) would be allowed to take a tax credit to help pay for the mandate… but only if all of thier employees make less than 50K a year.
See why people say that this bill PUNISHES you for growing a company and paying your employees better?
Report Post »KEA
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:11amWe are a country under the rule of law not man so lets pray that foundation is not crumbled with the lefts lies to dismiss this case.
Yes, LIES. They claimed numerous times it WAS NOT A TAX and now that its been challenged they claim its a tax.
I wish one of these judges looking at this case would stand up and call them out on that fact. They cant have it both ways but the left will damn sure try and will get away with it as long as we are silent.
Silent NO MORE!
Report Post »tobywil2
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:11amThe Social Security Trust Fund is almost bankrupt and the Medicare trust fund is bankrupt. The problem has been apparent for years but until now no one has advanced a plan to save these popular programs.
At last, our President has the courage to propose a solution! It is so simple that one wonders why no one thought of it before. The solution?
Enact a “Health Care Reform Bill” the severely rations health care to the elderly. This will save the Medicare Trust Fund and allow it to be used to reward the Presidents political cronies and provide health care for “deserving Illegal Aliens.”
Deprived of medical care, the lifespan of the elderly will be reduced, depleting the number of recipients of the Social Security Trust Fund, saving that popular program.
Both problems solved! Why did it take so long to find such a simple solution?
Of course, the Congress and the President are exempted from the solution so they will remain part of the problem.
Report Post »http://commonsense21c.com/
wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:17amI can’t type today, sorry. The govt. has given itself, in this law, 24 hour real time access to all assets, accounts, etc owned by you (us). They will be taking the money from your accounts, you will not be given a bill. They are supposed to be setting up a system like a “court” where you can go to argue that you should get all or a portion of your own money back. If you lose, you must pay interest on the money, even though they are the ones holding it. No lawyers will be allowed to represent clients in front of this “court.” You will come alone to face the government you taxes paid are mitigated by mortgage interest, property taxes, etc, your price for health care rises, because you don’t deserve any shelter. For instance, we own a small piece of country property, on which we pay school and property taxes, which are deductible from our fed. tax. With this takeover, our income is not adjusted by those taxes and that money is included when the govt figures out what we will pay in the dollar amount for our “insurance.” 50k/yr= 10% of the gross, but you are not exempted after that. There will still be co-pays, because you are not considered poor enough to qualify for price breaks. 80k -15% of your gross with the same rules. 90K= 20% of the gross which they will take from your bank account whether or not it means you make your mortgage payment. Those percentages are merely how much you will be charged from your own pocket for your health care insurance package AFTER what your employer pays. So I’m sure you see where this is going. No one is going to be allowed to have any income which is not allocated by the govt in the way that they see fit. The government IS redistributing your money. There won’t be anything leftover for that little cottage to retire to or a cruise to celebrate retirement. You will work until you die and you will take what you are given to retire on and go sit down and shut up. PERIOD. If this thing stands, we are toast. Make no mistake.
Report Post »carrera
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:40amWingedWolf-
Report Post »Page 58 states that the Government will have real time access to your finances. Page 59 states the Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer. At first glance we could very easily close our checking and savings accounts to avoid the IRS from depleting our accounts, however, page 58 states they will enjoy access to our finances which would leave me to speculate that they could levy a lien on our homes if we are in equity, perhaps they can seize our 401k‘s and IRA’s. I am unable to determine their definition of “real time access to our finances” I will concur, we should all be frightened, however, sit tight, the judicial process has just begun.
Lana40
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:08amMy prayers are w/ the states today. Government needs to get OUT of our business.
Report Post »danglingbags
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:36amGOOD job….RIGHT wing whacko states….spend a ton of money to file frivolous law suits WHILE ATTEMPTING TO DENY AFFORDABLE HEALTHCARE TO THEIR CITIZENS.
MAY MANY SICK, WOUNDED AND UNINSURED ARRIVE IN YOUR EMERGENCY ROOMS AND OVERWHELM YOU. MAY YOUR STATE COFFERS BE DRAINED TO COVER UNINSURED.
I AM SO GLAD I DO NOT LIVE IN MORONIC RED STATE.
Debrabate
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:42am++++Posting sign+++
Do not feed the troll…
it will only make people skip through some rather VALID posts.
Report Post »wingedwolf
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:46amWe are very happy that you don’t live here as well dangling thing. We don’t have to support you.
Report Post »DGroundhog
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:03amExactly. Why should I have to pay for HealthCare for people like Ding?
If he gets hit by a car – sure stitch his brains back into his head, then have Michelle Obama dump him off on a street somewhere in Chicago.
Report Post »danglingbags
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:10amDEBRABATES…..
Please …..you and MISTER BATES should know that I am only trying to have a conversation.
I know not of the troll thing you mention.
m2ther
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:18amdanglingbags is okay here he or she keeps us aware of what we are up against. Besides we need debate, I believe that is what’s missing in Washington because the left tends to hide under their rocks and not engage. The only time we hear something from them is when it’s filtered through the media. So in my opinion to have an actual plant from the left here on Blaze to engage in political warfare is refreshingly stimulating and it keeps us sharp.
Report Post »Buck Bagaw
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 9:24amBanglegag, A “moronic state” exists wherever you happen to be taking up space.
Report Post »Flagwaver
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:11amDangles, you do realize that the health care will not start until 2014, but we will start giving the government the money about now. So, we are going to give the government our money for health care NOW and we hope they don’t spend it before 2014… I don’t think so.
Report Post »mara123
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:13am@danglingbags…I AM GLAD YOU DONT LIVE IN A STATE THAT HAS SANE PEOPLE TOO, STAY WITH YOUR INSANE FRIENDS IN YOUR STATE !
Report Post »PeterBreitholtz
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:02amStates are not moral agents, people are, and can impose moral standards on powerful institutions.
Report Post »~Noam Chomsky
adifftake
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:15amDbags you have no idea what a conversation is. Why do you hate freedom and America?
Report Post »dwh320
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 11:41amThe courts are our last best hope in preserving the freedoms granted to us in our nations constitution. Our Republic is at a cross roads where our elected officials had clearly shown they want to enslave the people to the governments authority instead of the government enslaved to the will of the people. May God guide our courts in wisdom to reestablish the constitutional government designed by our founders.
Report Post »ArdenDulou
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 12:37pmJust an FYI, Freedom groups across Indiana are asking for Indiana to pull out of the lawsuit. It is very techinical but study the Florida constitution. As any lawyer will tell you the States are in a losing position since they have the burden of proof.
Report Post »In Indiana, we are asking our lawmakers to take Interposition as our route. This is to pass laws telling the Fed we will not take part of the Health Care law. This forces them to sue Indiana and then enforce the ruling. By being part of the Florida suit every state and person involved takes a position of it is their law and now they want it nullified. If the lawsuit fails, then you are stuck waiting for the Fed to undo the law.
Be sad your state is part of the lawsuit. Ask your lawmakers to pass laws ignoring the power of the Fed to place this on you.
jmb847
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 12:55pmVote in Nov. Thanks DGB
Report Post »Eagle07
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 1:18pmDingbat do you know how many people in my company that worked right along side of me and got paid the very same amount refused health care so they could have that extra few dolllars to go out partying on the weekends.How is it our fault I pay for whta I get and they should too.
Report Post »seanrobins
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 8:18pmTo Danglingbags: (Gee, what an amazingly intelligent nom de plume…. sheesh…)
There are already countless 2nd and 3rd world nations whose governments will happily guide your every step through life (er, scratch Cuba, because apparantly, it’s not working there anymore…)
But, in case you haven’t noticed, in this country, we like a little thing called “Freedom.” But, I suppose that you don’t get that.
Report Post »rybur
Posted on September 14, 2010 at 10:52pmIs it REALLY affordable, bags?
Let’s see…
1. Costs more
2. Coverage you may not want (I.E. money wasted)
3. Lower quality for increased volume
4. I’m still learning more……
The fact that our economy is poor also makes some unable to purchase it. Forcing it on everyone in not the answer especially by the government. We see how it went over in Britain….. Anyway, we can let a “testing ground” state like California try it (once they stop wasting money(progressives)), and see if it works (I have my guesses). If not, it can serve as a message that it won‘t do it’s intended job, and no more states (influenced by the people who should be informed on this) would try it. Best try a sample than try it on a national level, ’cause if it fails…..we fail.
I just wish MO would join in the lawsuits. How can the lawsuits be frivilous if a number of entire states are invested in it and the majority of the country is behind it, even if their state capitol is being lazy. The only frivilous lawsuits are on stupid things and I agree that many of them are as such. It just makes the ambulance chaser’s wallets a bit thicker. In this way though, we can use them for their intended purpose and for a good cause for once. eh?
Report Post »WEASEL1053
Posted on September 15, 2010 at 2:26pmTroll.
Report Post »