‘Little Blue Book’ Author May Have Come Up With Idea Behind ‘You Didn’t Build That’
- Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:45pm by
Mytheos Holt
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The “Little Blue Book,” described by one blogger as a “wink-wink-nudge-nudge ironic-but-not-really reference to Chairman Mao’s Little Red Book” and praised effusively by such luminaries of the Left as Van Jones and George Soros, has already been exposed by multiple outlets, including theBlaze’s own Erica Ritz, as deluded at best, and dangerous at worst. However, as anyone who follows the current administration will tell you, dangerous ideas are not precluded from entering politics. In fact, they frequently seem to exert an almost magnetic appeal on political actors simply by virtue of being dangerous.
This may explain the career of the “Little Blue Book’s” author, George Lakoff, who has honed the art of spin peddling that he demonstrates to disturbing perfection in the “Little Blue Book” with a series of other books that hit precisely the same notes, albeit with less precision. And dangerous though these ideas are, they appear to have had an impact on the Democratic party long before “The Little Blue Book” was even an abstract, and before Van Jones‘ name was synonymous with this administration’s troubling ideological roots.
How do we know? Because President Obama’s infamous “You didn’t build that gaffe” appears to have originated not with Massachusetts Democratic Senate candidate Elizabeth Warren, but instead with Lakoff himself, in a little-read 2004 book titled “Don’t Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate: The Essential Guide for Progressives.” And while that title isn’t nearly as punchy as “The Little Blue Book,” the book that bears its name appears to have been read by enough Democratic power players to still have an influence. William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection was the first to notice this connection, and spells it out with this quote from Lakoff (emphasis Jacobson’s):
There is no such thing as a self-made man. Every businessman has used the vast American infrastructure, which the taxpayers paid for, to make his money. He did not make his money alone. He used taxpayer infrastructure. He got rich on what other taxpayers had paid for: the banking system, the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and Commerce Departments, and the judicial system, where nine-tenths of cases involve corporate law. These taxpayer investments support companies and wealthy investors. There are no self-made men! The wealthy have gotten rich using what previous taxpayers have paid for. They owe the taxpayers of this country a great deal and should be paying it back.
Note – this was written in 2004, when Barack Obama was still barely a Senator, and Elizabeth Warren hadn’t been heard of. James Taranto of the Wall Street Journal expands on the connection:
The source, as with so much in left-wing politics these days, is George Lakoff, the University of California linguist who is the Democratic left’s leading light on questions of cognition and rhetoric. That passage comes from “Don’t Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate: The Essential Guide for Progressives,” the only book we can think of with an imperative title, an imperative subtitle and a nominative sub-subtitle.[...]
No one denies that people alive today owe a debt to the past, but Lakoff and his fellow progressives seem to be under the misimpression that government is the only means by which we receive that sort of inheritance. The great industrialists of the 19th and 20th centuries might have paid a lot of taxes, but that wasn’t their primary contribution to the world of today.[...]
But rhetorical tropes like “There is no such thing as a self-made man“ and ”If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that” do just the opposite: They call attention to the way in which the progressive ideology goes against the American grain. Americans believe in rugged individualism and self-determination, and it is foolish for a national politician like Obama to mock those values.
Taranto’s analysis raises an interesting question: If Lakoff’s gift at framing is so substantial, then why would a statement that owes an unacknowledged debt to his work at bare minimum be considered a gaffe? The answer: Because, according to his colleague, the Harvard linguist Steven Pinker, Lakoff is actually terrible at linguistics and psychology, but covers it up with a skill in political hackery. This was essentially what Pinker wrote in a scathing review of Lakoff’s book “Whose Freedom?” in 2006:
There is much to admire in Lakoff’s work in linguistics, but Whose Freedom?, and more generally his thinking about politics, is a train wreck. Though it contains messianic claims about everything from epistemology to political tactics, the book has no footnotes or references (just a generic reading list), and cites no studies from political science or economics, and barely mentions linguistics. Its use of cognitive neuroscience goes way beyond any consensus within that field, and its analysis of political ideologies is skewed by the author’s own politics and limited by his disregard of centuries of prior thinking on the subject. And Lakoff’s cartoonish depiction of progressives as saintly sophisticates and conservatives as evil morons fails on both intellectual and tactical grounds.[...]
Lakoff‘s advice doesn’t pass the giggle test. One can imagine the howls of ridicule if a politician took Lakoff’s Orwellian advice to rebrand taxes as “membership fees.“ Surely no one has to hear the metaphor ”tax relief” to think of taxes as an affliction; that sentiment has been around as long as taxes have been around. (Even Canadians, who tolerate a far more expansive government, grumble about their taxes.) Also, “taxes” and “membership fees” are not just two ways of framing the same thing. If you choose not to pay a membership fee, the organization will stop providing you with its services. But if you choose not to pay taxes, men with guns will put you in jail. And even if taxes were like membership fees, aren’t lower membership fees better than higher ones, all else being equal? Why should anyone feel the need to defend the very idea of an income tax? Other than the Ayn Randian fringe, has anyone recently proposed abolishing it? [...]
According to Lakoff, the ideal parent in the conservative worldview loves and cares only for those of his children “who measure up,“ and believes that ”affection is important, either as a reward for obedience or to prevent alienation through a show of love despite painful punishment.” Lakoff provides no evidence from linguistics or from surveys to show that this ludicrous ogre is the prototype of fatherhood in any common American conception of the family.
This put-up job is typical of Lakoff’s book. While he ostensibly offers a scholarly analysis of political thought, Lakoff cannot stop himself from drawing horns on the conservative portrait and a halo on the progressive one. Nowhere is this more egregious than in his claim that conservatives think in terms of direct rather than systemic causation. Lakoff seems unaware that conservatives have been making exactly this accusation against progressives for centuries.
In other words, Lakoff’s communication style, grounded as it is in wishful thinking backed by metaphors alone, is a miserable failure when put under the hard microscope of factual scrutiny. Exactly like the President’s “You didn’t build that” statement. So perhaps the next time one of the President‘s speechwriters considers picking up a copy of one of Lakoff’s books, they’ll remember the reception to this line, and try some actual arguments, rather than the work of a man whose political ideas don’t even pass muster with the academy.




















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Comments (75)
SPOT_OF_TEA
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 7:36amAs usual the left has thie infrastructure thing ass backwards…A person gets an idea for a business….people invest in that business and people are hired to work at the company….If it becomes successful,taxes are collected from that business,from the share holders and from the employees.That money is then used to build infrastructure and pay for social programs…These business people should be praised for helping to raise the standard of living for its citizens…It seems that there are no republican leaders willing or able to explain this to the American people.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 8:27amAnd not to mention that these businessmen also PAID FOR THAT SAME INFRASTRUCTOR.
Report Post »yougottabekidding
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 8:31amLike who
Speaker of the house?
Report Post »Or how about a war hero from Arizona? Maybe his kid? The apple
Does not fall far from the tree !
poorrichard09
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:09amLakoff looks like an older, greyer michael moore-w/o the stupid baseball cap!
Same old marxist/collectivist claptrap.
Report Post »Al Gator
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 2:13pmLwakoff stole the name Little Blue Book from the John Birch Society. JBS’ Little Blue Book laid bare the commie pigs plans and agendas. It still till today sends commie pigs into spittle spurting sh&& fits.
But most don’t remember it, because the Republican Elites decided it was too over the top. Too pedestrian don’t you know.
Commie pigs like Lwakoff did NOT forget, and this is their finger in the eye of the JBS, who knew them well and ratted them out.
Report Post »teddrunk
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 7:14amEveryone equally has America & it’s infrastructure as tool. It’s still those who sacrifice, invest and work hard that provide jobs & wealth for themselves or others. The American story is one of a person starting with nothing and building something up. We vall get that chance, but only a percentage risk it. So the argument is specious.
Report Post »Godzgrl247
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 5:36amAll this talk about “You didn’t build that.” Reminds me of a joke I heard once. This group of scientists went before God and told him that he was no longer needed. They had figured out all of life’s mysteries and were able to create life on their on. God replied. “Oh really? You can create a man from scratch just like I did?” The scientists huddled together and then answered, “Well, yes we can.” God said, “Okay, prove it.” So one of the scientist bent down and proceeded to scoop up some soil from the earth. God interrupted, “Uh, uh, uh!” he wagged his finger. “Get your own dirt.”
Report Post »yougottabekidding
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 7:25amHussain is absolutely correct we didn’t build that.
Report Post »Three major bridge projects in this job strapped country being
built by : wait for it, a new meaning to the words “Made in China”
With Chinese labor (I’ll bet they are union, you union workers better
Wake up you r a means to an end only) BEND OVER!!!!!
http://amac.us/u-s-bridges-built-by-chinese-with-our-tax-dollars
By the way get away from AARP
The-Monk
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:55pm@Godzgrl247
Thanks for the story. Monks love stories. : )
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:10amI had Lakoff as briefly as a teacher when I was at Berkeley in a cognitive science class and had to read his book. His reasoning on linguistics also has a lot of obvious holes in it, he sets up cognitive science against the western philosophical tradition without really understanding the philosophers he’s talking about, and even has on one occasion I know of made grand, over-the-top statements about art history without knowing anything of substance about art history. He has a real ego problem.
Report Post »Leopold
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 3:11amSo, the taxes the government collected from the business people doesn’t count toward roads and bridges. Why is that exactly?
Obama wants to have the authority to take us much of our money as possible. That way we are completely dependent on government.
Will this man surrander power in November? Or will he start a war?
This man cannot be trusted. He lies all the time. ALL THE TIME!!!
Report Post »Dallasmarine
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:51pmIf he was refering to the person on welfare that recieved a no interest loan to start up a business and never paid taxes before he started his business he might be on to something.
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:13amo he is own some thing and it has fried his brain cells, i just wonder if he smoked it but did not inhale.gnaw, sounds more like he snorted a blow fly and it is still flying around in his head.
Report Post »sillyfreshness
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:45pmAh yes. George Lakoff, just another “chosen people” Jew that is the driving engine behind Bolshevism. Keep on loving your “chosen people” Blazers (fools).
Report Post »DamocleAurelius
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 2:31amNazi*
Report Post »sillyfreshness
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 3:51amSo pointing out the truth makes one a Nazi?
Report Post »DamocleAurelius
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 5:39pmNo. Being a dim-witted, uneducated, protocols of zion believing anti-semite make you a nazi, you nazi.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:33pm“There is no such thing as a self-made man. Every businessman has used the vast American infrastructure, which the taxpayers paid for, to make his money.”
First, Lakoff is misrepresenting the free market. He knows full well that specialization and the division of labor are key free market concepts; Therefore, he also knows that free marketers believe that it‘s impossible to trade with one’s self.
But once a voluntary trade is completed, there’s nothing to owe. Both parties walked away with what they wanted. A succession of such trades utilizes the division of labor to increase wealth for both parties and results in zero further obligations – all completed voluntary trades are paid in full by both parties.
Regarding infrastructure, government‘s interference in the market’s infrastructure actually results in inefficiency and higher prices due to higher costs of production for everyone.
See here.
The Truth About the “Robber Barons”
http://mises.org/daily/2317
“He got rich on what other taxpayers had paid for: the banking system, the Federal Reserve, the Treasury and Commerce Departments, …”
Fiat money is a Marxian monetary system, so when it crashes, it will not prove the failure of the free market.
Fiat money has unjustly funded the imperialism of various nations via “Cantillon Effects”.
Government interventions are responsible for Corporatism.
See here.
Anti-Trust and Monopoly (with Ron Paul)
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4g
sickoftalking
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 1:40amI think its kind of irrelevant to go there. The point is as simple as saying that if the businessman wasn’t making money in the current environment (where the government has provided for things) he would probably be making money in a different environment.
And government services are provided under the logic that they’re there for the well being of everyone — poor and rich alike — so people don’t owe anything for their use other than what they already paid in for them for what they cost to construct, and they’re also best set up to pay for themselves (roads are in theory paid for by gas taxes, for instance, although that’s not always the case).
Lakoff is so wrapped up in the idea that conservatives believe in a “paternal” metaphor for government, that he provides an alternative “maternal” metaphor, while most conservatives just want the government to treat people like adults instead of like children.
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:32pmIt really isn’t about the rich or taxes at all!
Report Post »Study progressive philosophy! It doesn’t recognize ANY individual rights! To progressives, the fruit of ANYONE‘S labor isn’t really theirs. It is the state’s to confiscate and redistribute at will. The fruit of your labor is not yours!
This so-called “gaffe” was no gaffe. It was a freudian moment of Obama truth. It was a revelation of the real Obama and what he really believes. He is a self-labelled progressive!
Progressivism IS tyranny!
commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:42pmand to all of you left wing trolls here on the blaze that don’t understand. it means communism 101. and to think the left thinks that conservatives are stupid.
Report Post »kat747
Posted on July 30, 2012 at 1:44pm….the funniest part of this progressive take-over of the USA is that all these liberals who are backing Barry and his new regime do NOT realize that eventually Barry will be coming for THEIR money – that is the money the liberals have not given him already !
Report Post »….the scariest part of this liberal mindset is that these Barry-backers “think” that this go-get-‘em’ Barry – get their money, tax-the-living-hell-out-of-them, I am behind anti-American Barry 100% ……rhetoric to go get those right-wing, Tea Party, Republican Types WILL NEVER APPLY TO THE LIBERALS.
…..Barry is NOT in it for you, either !
commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:30pmi am just wondering if the crazy left wing nut jobs really need some one to tell them how to wipe the butts, because it seems that they love having some one else make up their minds for them. with all of the crazy left wing ideologues running around writing commie loving books they should have plenty of toilet paper to wipe their commie butts with,or is it use as a napkin to wipe their mouth with, i am not sure because they seem to be one in the same.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:18pmObama certainly has never had an original thought.
Report Post »RestoreCapitalism
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:16pmLong ago and far away, there was a farmer who grew corn. When his harvest would come, he would load up his wagon and his horse and take the corn into the nearest towns to sell his corn. It gave him money to buy the things he needed for his family. There were no paved roads, no running water or sewage plants, no infrastructure to make him successful in feeding his family.
Yes, work and success came long before communism, came to claim a right to all that you work for and hope to leave to your children. Any more lies you would like to tell us before we fire you Mr Obama?
November is national Fire A Politician month. Extra points are assessed for taking out anti-capitalist presidents. Be sure to participate, and take a friend along with you to the polls.
God Bless America!
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:38pmand under the obama regimes game rules, you don’t pass go nor do you get to keep your two hundred dollars,hose.property and do not get out of jail free especially if you are a conservative or white and the name of the game is “”‘ monopoly { communism }
Report Post »grayling646
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:11pmHow about all the government jobs that came along with that infrastructure? Tens of thousands of gov’t employees making a decent wage and a good pension and benefit. Primarily because rich people pay a ton in taxes. Doesn’t that make us even with the infrastructure/services crap?
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:19pmand those same government workers are getting paid by the taxpayers to do nothing,and if obama and his union buddies get their way, they will be union and will be able to strike at any time, shut down the government over some thing stupid like “‘ coffee is racist because it is black “‘ and still want to be paid for sticking. damn,that sounds just like most of europe, well, we better get use it because that is the road that obama is building off the backs of hard working Americans who own businesses and have jobs,because the left wing free loading welfare loving morons don’t want to get a job.
Report Post »idarusskie
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:38amor shutting down chick-fil-a because they agree with 1/2 the electorate ( in liberal California) that gay marriage should not be government recognized.
Report Post »phrogdriver
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:07pmAs I have tirelessly pointed out – this isn’tnew.
Ayn Rand pegged this EXACT idea in “Atlas Shrugged” 50 years ago. Jakoff didn’t come up with it. It’s been a collectivist rationalization since Russeau.
Report Post »wianno94
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:05pmI am amazed at the number of people who have not advanced any further in life than to use our roads and bridges as little more than travelways to a welfare office.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:02pmTo treat the American business man like he is not one of the tax payers that created, and is entitled to profit by, this infrastructure is just plain false. In fact, most American business men pay far more than most citizens for this privilege.
Silversmith
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:26pm@silversmith, 47% of Americans don’t pay any income tax at all,but they are the biggest group standing around crying about how racist the rich are because they wont pay more in taxes,and the same 47% are the ones who are willing to live on welfare because they are to lazy,have no pride and have no concept of what it is like to want to have a better way of life not just for themselves but for their family, and they think that becoming communist is going to be way better than they have it now,
Report Post »guz75
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 8:58amIt makes me laugh no one ever questions the ridiculous statistics that are thrown around here sometimes.
Your figures rely on only paying attention to federal personal income tax and ignoring all other federal taxes; payroll tax for example brings in nearly as much as income tax. Your figure also doesn’t take in to account married couples being treated as a single tax unit and as for welfare figures; 8% of Americans receive some sort of welfare payment and only 1.7% rely on welfare for more than 50% of their income.
Makes me laugh how much people are prepared to lie to reinforce their own agenda, according to most here I thought only liberal’s behaved like that?
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:14pm@Guz75 You must be cracking yourself up then.
Silversmith
Report Post »1forthegoodguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:54pmI’ve read that there is a connection to Che, and of course that’s a connection to Castro, and of course, that is a connection to Khrushchev, and that is a connection to Stalin and…..and….
You right wingers and your stupid conspiracy theories.
Report Post »BeeDee
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 12:17amthanks for all the facts…
Report Post »highcarry
Posted on July 28, 2012 at 9:31pmproof positive that liberalism is a true mental illness.you folks can get help for that,ya know.
Report Post »freedomisasfreedomdoes
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:43pmDoes he also lend help to the Jon Stewart show? Bill Maher?
Report Post »Prepography
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:39pmGood analysis @ http://www.prepography.com titled “Reality Check The Government Didn’t Build That Either”
Excerpt: “What surprises, baffles, and angers me about the fierce media debate and advertising melee that ensued is that no one that I have seen or heard has properly framed the actual fatal flaw in Mr. Obama’s statement and thus logic!! Mr. Obama’s claim is as ludicrous as it is disrespectful! The traditional media have utterly and probably intentionally missed the point!! The Reality is that even the “roads and bridges” that the Obama Administration and campaign ultimately pointed to in order to explain the President’s comments WERE NOT BUILT BY THE GOVERNMENT!!”
Link to article: http://prepography.com/reality-check-the-government-didnt-build-that-either/
Report Post »Puddle Duck
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:25pmIt‘s astounding isn’t it since anyone with half a brain knows that when a Gov’t sponsored project is given the green light they invite bids from the private sector with the lowest bid usually being the awarded the contract. The Gov’t does not build anything, they never did, never will. It’s somewhat disturbing to me that more people are ignornant of how the nation functions and that without the private sector nothing would get built, nothing.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:35pmLibs really are the worst kind of people,always telling everyone else how to live and using the force of government to conform to the central planners ideas as to how we live our lives.Our republic was lost long ago with the creation of endless agencies and red tape we have to go through just to live our lives and it’s at a breaking point now with our first and last Marxist president.
I’ve said this many times,read the ten planks of the communist manifesto and compare it to modern day America and see how free you think you are,you might be surprised,or not.
Report Post »The Gooch
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:50pmThere is nothing “liberal” about progressives and leftists. Just sayin’.
Report Post »The Gooch
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:24pmKiddies, logic arguments (and, laughably, emotion) are too often considered ‘science’ in the world of the progressive. Predictably, the thought process comes back to the high-minded notion that all a progressive says and does is good and proper. All that is opposed to a progressive’s belief system is not only improper, but dangerous and therefore subject to elimination. A good point to remember is not all Ds are progressives and some Rs are progressives.
Report Post »This is just another form of zealotry… the same sophistry that once considered phrenology a “science.” Please, all you little people with the misshapen heads, shut up and let the really smart people work their magic upon you.
iwillnotbequiet
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:16pmWell said…thank you.
Report Post »Dejavu
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:15pmUckfay Ouyay Lakoff and all of you America haters. Why don’t you JUST LEAVE once and for all? My goodness, get your own planet and leave us normal people alone.
Report Post »Chromo200
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:14pmTaxation is a form of pooling our money to make our lives a little better and easier. We all have the chance to take advantage of the things that our pooled money built. Some of us use the “things” beter than others by working hard. Progressives tell you how to use the system while conservatives learns how to use the system and make it better.
I do owe past generations for the help in the rooads/schools/water purification plants/etc etc .. What I don’t owe is anything to people who sit on the behinds and expect the rest to pay for their happiness.
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:27pmYou are correct. Although to put it into hunting terms, I didn’t make the gun or ammo, I didn’t make the truck, I didn’t make the road. But I did shoot and drag the dang elk out, cut it up and put it in my freezer. So for someone to say, “You didn’t do that, you didn’t make that” I sure as heck made it happen, not someone else, and no, they don’t get 40% of my meat.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:37pmchromo200 You mention taxation,you might find this interesting.
http://thelawthatneverwas.com/
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:39pmThis is all so bizarre. How did we let this happen. How did we let the Marxist/Communist have a platform again. We have fought them all around the world. Now they are here (I know they always have been) and spreading their filthy ideology in our schools and institutions of higher learning and in our government. Were we asleep? We are awake now and our only hope is this election, if it happens.
Report Post »commonsenseguy
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:14pm@darmok,careful, peta will have the fda, the epa & the irs at your house confiscating your freezer for animal cruelty, not following the fda‘s food handling process and the epa’smade up environmental laws,and then they will have the irs kick your door in so they can arrest you for not paying all of the fines they can come up with for killing a elk,and then they will take all of your food,house and every thing you own then swear they are going to share your wealth with the poor only to keep for themselves.
Report Post »NHwinter
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:10pmDose Obama have an original thought or is it just regurgitated Marxist ideology!
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:26pmHe lives in a fantasy land where everyone will be made equal and the government will make it so even if it means destroying the middle class and having two classes,the super rich and the poor,not the poor we’re used to in modern day America,I’m talking the truly poor like Bangladesh.
Report Post »Elena2010
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:07pmMeddlesome little wart!
Report Post »Psychosis
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 9:54pmwell if they can claim the good stuff
they can receive the blame for the failures
its the governments fault your business failed ………………….sue them
Report Post »MAX0O1
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 10:03pmGOOD point!!!!!!
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on July 27, 2012 at 11:13pmYou can sue them, but you have to fill out the correct form, in tripliket, and you have to take a number, your would be 1,999,999,999, and they are still only on number 2.
Report Post »