‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings
- Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:22am by
Billy Hallowell
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Historian Tom Holland (Credit: Channel 4)
Television historian Tom Holland is receiving a multitude of criticisms and threats following his in-depth investigation into Islam. After examining the faith and its early texts, he came to some fascinating — and apparently enraging — conclusions in a documentary he produced for British television.
In a program called, “Islam: The Untold Story,” Holland claimed that there is little evidence written surrounding the life of the Prophet Muhammad — the central figure in the Islamic faith. Additionally, he noted that the Koran makes only one reference to Mecca, the religion’s holiest city. These sentiments, of course, cast doubts upon Islam and are, thus, controversial to say the least.
For those assuming that Holland is bent on disproving Islam’s beginnings, consider a portion of a review on the film that was written by The Guardian’s John Crace:
Holland is no attention-seeking, neo-Conservative, Niall Ferguson lookalike. Indeed, I’d guess his heart bleeds liberalism and, to my western sceptic eyes, his contention that the Arab empire gave birth to Islam, rather than the traditionally held belief that it was the other way round, seemed well-argued, fascinating – I learned a lot of history I didn’t know in a short space of time – and uncontentious. I would find it a great deal more surprising if a religious text written 1,400 years ago turned out to be wholly accurate. But for those who believe the Qur’an is the word of God passed directly to man and that inconvenient lacunae of knowledge are merely events that have yet to be properly explained, then Holland’s view is almost certainly blasphemous.
Watch the film’s trailer, below:
The response to the program, which aired on England’s Channel 4, was so fierce that Holland, a Cambridge-educated and award-winning writer and historian, received physical threats, angry tweets and other related responses.
“One Twitter user accused him of trying to destroy Islamic history, while another tweet called him a ‘fool’ for suggesting Islam is a ‘made-up religion,’” The Indian Express reports.
In another instance, Holland responded to a critic with the following message: “U are reminding me very effectively why I had vowed to keep off this topic” — a telling tweet that showcases some anticipation of the negative reaction.
In the midst of the controversy on Friday, Holland also decided to address critics head-on, penning an article clarifying his remarks on the Channel 4 web site.
“The origins of Islam are a legitimate subject of historical enquiry and this film is wholly in keeping with other series and programmes on Channel 4 where the historical context of world religions has been examined, such as The Bible: A History,” he wrote, going on to admit that he knew of the tensions surrounding the subject before making the documentary. “It is important to stress as we do in the film that this is a historical endeavour and is not a critique of one of the major monotheistic religions.”
Holland used the article to focus on the three areas in which he has been criticized over the film, taking the time to explain each in detail:
1. It has been suggested that I say in the film that Mecca is not mentioned in the Qu’ran. In fact, I say that Mecca is mentioned once in the Qu’ran. As a historian I have to rely on original texts and although later tradition (as brought to us through the hadith) has come to accept that other names are synonymous with Mecca, the fact is that there is only one mention of Mecca in the Qu’ran(although due to an unwarranted interpolation, a second one does appear in the Pickthall translation).
2. On the broad perspective some complaints assert unequivocally, as is often said, that Islam was “born in the full light of history unlike the ancient faiths”. That may have been the belief of Western scholars back in the days of Ernest Renan, but it is most certainly not the academic consensus today. [...]
3. It has also wrongly been suggested that we said there is no historical evidence for the seventh century origins of Islam. What I actually said in the film was that I had expected to find contemporaneous Muslim evidence – “but there’s nothing there.” And the Qur’an aside, the first mention of the prophet Muhammad’s name in Arabic is on the coin that we featured in Part Five, and on the Dome of the Rock, which we also featured prominently. The evidence provided by Christian contemporaries was mentioned in Part Three, and is dealt with at greater length in the book.
Despite Holland’s attempt to clarify his stance and to defend his exploration of the faith through a historical and not a theological lens, furor continues. While he has received threats and negative messages as a result of his work, it seems the historian is continuing to defend the documentary and to double-down on the investigation he undertook.
(H/T: Daily Mail)
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Comments (364)
raderby
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:18amGod is God, and all religions are the things of man. Handle the truth, or ponder away.
However, death threats in this case simply indicate once again how the “religion of peace” is tearing the world to pieces. Outside of the 10 Commandments, any religion, or ideology, or country that says to me: “do it this way or die….” is a dictatorship. Barring escape from it, I will steadfastly resist it in every way I can.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:58amWRONG: ISLAM is NOT A RELIGION. ISLAM IS A CULT. ISLAM IS a MADE UP “RELIGION”.
Report Post »OUR CHRISTIAN FAITH Comes from GOD. THE Bible was written by GOD, the HOLY SPIRIT. GOD is alive and with us. I don’t expect you to believe it, but that’s your loss. Men are not smart enough, kind enough, good enough to write words as found in the Bible in general. The Bible is ONE story from Old to New Testament…it’s about JESUS coming to save those created by GOD in a world Created by God. Sorry if you don’t believe this. Maybe someday you will. ISLAM has -0- to do with Faith. It is a CULT. A dangerous dangerous Cult like NAZISM.
BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:07amPatty Henry… If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?
Theological doctrines:
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
The list of “Divine” Mistakes goes on and on….you God must have been a bit tired from murdering all those babies!
viperman
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:18amIslam is not a religion….It is a Government bent on controlling every aspect of you life. It should be declared as a war on our nation. Our God is with us, who can be against. us.
Report Post »Tipdog
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:19amBrown22, now go ahead and post the entire verse so we have a context to your cherry picking.
Report Post »viperman
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:19amChristianity is not a religion, It is a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!
Report Post »Metamorphosis
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:22am“Outside the 10 commandments”? Why in the world do Christians constantly make exceptions for their chosen belief system? We as a society will never grow in health until we questions our own internalized beliefs with the same vigor as we question others.
Report Post »rickc34
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:27amI guess in the end when all stand in judgment we shall see who is right and who is wrong, The Christian, The Atheist , The Muslim, or any other religion out there wont we.
Report Post »NOTALOTTAYITTAYADDA
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:32amI agree, ALL religions are fabrications of men seeking power. This has been proven true time and time again. Many people can’t handle handle day to day life and many LEADERS know this and take advantage of these sheep.
Report Post »ANMorton
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:29ambbrown22, Please see the ancient rebuttals to these old claims. Most of the ones you listed are explained by their respective contexts.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:46amChristianity hijacked Judaism. Mormonism and Islam hijacked Christianity.
Report Post »Silversmith
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:56amIt wouldn’t surprise me at all to find that a religion with such a governmental structure was created by that government and not the other way around.
Simple question. Out of all the military conflicts in the world right now, how many are with Islam?
Silversmith
Report Post »bjorn-free
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:57am@brown22 guess that makes you a fool then eh? Only a fool says there is no God….yet you use all the academic liberal arguments as all other theologians. So stew in your lack of discernment and atheistic anger and all will be well but then one day you will have that moment and it will be too late…… for the return of the Lord is faster then the twinkling of an eye. Since you’re a logical analytical person the twinkling of the eye is the time the retina recognizes and object and mind analyzes it and then the mind comprehends it…..and His return will be quicker then that but He did give us an analogy to get a clue of just how quick it would be…It is sad to see such open ignorance of the application of God’s word but to explain to you why all the blood shed on the OT would take a long treatise that you will not take the time it is obvious to me at this point you have made up your mind and your avatar tells it all very well…….so until that time comes may your eyes be opens and your ears be unstopped for your eternity’s sake……
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:31am@ Brown – Another attempt to dismiss Biblical verse by taking them out of context and failing to differentiate Old from New testament.
No credibility.
Report Post »Hobbs57
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:43amPersonally, I have moved away from all the man made religions, but feel this attack on the Muslim faith is no different and unfair to those who practice this faith. I have a very personal and intimate relationship with God through the spirit which was the gift, the comforter, from Jesus Christ. My explanations and theories as how Jesus was a product of our agreed consensus and and a necessary metamorphosis brought to fruit by our collective, or as I interpret as God. I don’t doubt any revelation men receive through the spirit, but will ponder upon their interpretations at time. Sometimes, I suspect, it isn’t revelation at all, but fleshly influences. The Muslim faith, along with the Jewish, are also components of the spiritual motions of our existence and just as important to the complete spiritual history of civilization as any of the other faiths.I have been to the gates of hell, and struggle to remain free of the powerful grasp the anointed king of Earth has over the flesh, but it is through the spirit that I can become empowered over such forces and leave free from myself. I know, this is probably the most crazy thing so many have heard, I am sure most if not all Christians would never consider me counted as one of you, but I do count most of you as one of me. Until my fleshly brain can comprehend eternity, or that time is irrelevant in the heavens,made up or not, I will trust what the spirit tells me. My faith in the spirit has saved my life and blesses my every day.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:46am@ BROWN….
1) What God made was very good indeed and pleasurable to God; however men’s wickedness increased and their rebellion against God increased and this grieved God and he judged all those who did not eneter the ark of safety. No contradiction at all.
Report Post »2) In the OT the word for dwell used in 2 Chron. only appears 5 times and has the connotation of a place where a deity could make contact and communicate its will; for the pagans that would have been an image of some sort, but for Yahweh that would be the Temple in Jerusalem. It did not mean the place he lived as you wrongly assume.
3) First, the Bible uses the terms “light” and “darkness” in several ways and in a variety of contexts. God’s dwelling place in the spiritual realm of the heaven of heavens is filled with “unapproachable light” (1 Timothy 6:16), because His unrestrained glory illuminates it (Revelation 21:23). Conversely, the passage in 1 Kings 8:12 that you noted (“The Lord said that he would dwell in thick darkness”—KJV) is not discussing God’s dwelling place in the heaven of heavens. First Kings 8:12-13, along with 2 Chronicles 5:13-14, discuss God’s presence in the physical temple of God in Jerusalem. Just as “the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle” in the days of Moses (Exodus 40:34), so “the house of the Lord [the temple], was filled with a cloud”. Dan Barker (who you are using) never illuminates the very d
Minnaloushe
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:47am@BBROWN22
Report Post »You’re only going to frustrate yourself trying to engage Patty Henry, et al.
It’s like yelling at a recording playing in a vast echo chamber.
Sad, dead minds….
chicago76
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:01pmThere is no religion that questions itself and the world more than Christianity. That is why Christians have made most of the real serious advances in science. Christians believe it part of the faith to question the faith. Without questioning the faith, there can be no real understanding of the faith.
Report Post »ginger100
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:13pm@bbrown22
Report Post »There are superior thinkers like you in advanced cultures like North Korea and China. You should lead a team of atheist there and share your thoughts with the supreme leader. You could discuss and laugh and make jokes about the dumb hicks here and how they worship invisible beings from outerspace instead of the supreme leaders with elite thinking abilities who knowing everything can explain everything there is to know about everything. And since I think so highly of you wisdom on this site, please explain how an advanced race of people were able to replace worshiping an imaginary GOD with a earthly god who provides everything for them creating a heaven on earth society? And why is it that people with power need to have the powers of a god and don’t quote any BS answers from the Bible, Torah or Quoran. I have all kinds of faith in your abilities to invent answers form your own thoughts. Maybe you will convert me with your own aethist teachings. You have captivated me.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:13pm@ BBROWN….
6) God, as a spirit, who “inhabits eternity” (cp. Isaiah 57:15) is indeed everywhere present and He need not literally go some place or come down to some place to actually be present there. Such references about the LORD going to Babylon to take a look at the tower which the folks there had built, or about the LORD going to Sodom to see if it was true what He had heard about that place, are the use of this figure of speech. Something is expressed in human terms for emphasis and perhaps a better understanding on the reader’s part. God is not “coming” to these places in a phyiscal sense, rather He is turning His attention there and is going to deal with that particular situation. This is just straightforward easy hermeneutics. But Dan Barker doesn’t practice this at all so that he can build a Straw-man argument which is logically fallacious.
7) God does not test man for his own good or solely for his own purpose. When God tests man, he’s doing it for our own good and the good of those around us. It is not important that we demonstrate our hearts to God, because God already knows our hearts. What is important is that we demonstrate what is in our hearts (whether good or bad) to serve as an example and an illustration to ourselves and those around us. When we consider the story of Abraham and Isaac (Genesis 22:12) we see this illustrated….CONT….
Report Post »SolitudeBliss
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:22pmAll religions are Man Made.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:28pm@ BBROWN….
7) When God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac as a test of faith, God already knew that Abraham would fulfill his request. However, the story of Abraham and his unwavering faith, as demonstrated by his willingness to sacrifice his own son at the request of God, has served as an effective illustration of what kind of faith is expected of us for billions of people who read that story in the book of Genesis.
8) Joshua said that “the mountain country” and “its farthest extents” were the promised possession of the Israelites. In Judges 1:19, the children of Israel did, indeed, drive out “the inhabitants of the mountains.” Unless we force the phrase “its farthest extents” in Joshua 17:18 to read “lowland” as in Judges 1:19, then there is absolutely no hint of a contradiction, and this entire explanation is unnecessary.
You see when all you do is copy and paste some supposed contradiction from Dan Barker when they really are only very poor non-contextual arguments with no foundations rooted in honesty or logical thought, you simply have nothing left to do accept copy and paste more “contradictions” for me to explain very easily….Thank you….
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:39pmSleazy- this is probably the blaze’s fault but 4 and 5 are left out. Don’t worry it happens to me all the time. I write down what I want to say on Microsoft word first so that if the blaze doesnt post it I can copy and paste it and do it again. That way it isn’t lost forever. By the way, thanks for the link that Sur used, I’ll keep it in my arsenal.
Report Post »bannedfromCNN
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:51pmThe fact is that the creation of Islam was preceded by a loud grunting, straining sound and was followed by the sound of a plop.
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:53pm@ NOTALOTT…..”I agree, ALL religions are fabrications of men seeking power. This has been proven true time and time again. Many people can’t handle handle day to day life and many LEADERS know this and take advantage of these sheep.” This is quite an illogical statement my friend. First I would like a summary of your “proof”. Secondly, it was the basis of Christianity that has caused many to die a martyr’s death at the hands of godless leaders. This is especially evident for brave men and women in Nazi Germany who gave their very lives to hide jews from the SS. If your assertion was true then communist governments would embrace Christianity as a means to help control the people, instead they see it as the threat it is and try to extinguish wherever they can such as the former USSR and China where the underground church is flourishing despite prison sentences for a number of its leaders. BTW, if it was invented by men for the purposes you suggest then why was Jesus portrayed as totally upsetting the leadership of the Jewish nation from King Herod to Caiaphas the High priest and the religious leading establishment that he constantly confronted and challenged, even to the point of involving Rome and causing societal upheaval? That is incredibly illogical reasoning in my opinion. Thank you…..
Report Post »SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:56pm@ DLV…thanks friend, yeah I posted it but the blaze didn’t post it, errr….I will re-post…..God bless..
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:07pmBbrown- I found a good tune for you. Let me know if you like it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzmsh7_vgW8
Report Post »isay
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:07pm@PATTY HENRY you faith impresses me – Thank God for those with eyes that can see!
Being in the programming field of computer science, I deal with numbers, logic, and facts. I don’t theorize, use blind faith, or cross my fingers in the hopes that an equation or formula will work correctly in a piece of software I’ve written. These tools of my trade have naturally crossed over into most all areas of my life, earning me varied nicknames from those in my life. Using these tools I’ve research the Christen Bible, the Jewish Torah, and the Islamic Koran. The Judeo-Christian books have facts on just the first two chapters of Geneses, which proves that they are of God – the order of creation. Accusations of contradictions can only be shown if one takes words or sentences out of contexts thus, there are no contradictions. I could go on and on!
The Karan was obviously created by a man or men with an extreme hatred and jealousy of the Judeo-Christens. If any inspirations’ exists, it could only come from Satan. This book is full of opposites and opposing views of the Judeo-Christens. In short, the Karan is one hell of a propaganda campaign against Judeo-Christens.
Report Post »HumbleMan
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:17pm@BBROWN
So have you ever heard the story of the 6 blind men and the elephant. By your reasoning, the elephant does not exist.
Also, is light a particle? Or is it a wave? I guess we should just throw out quantum mechanics because the physicists can’t settle that question.
Report Post »brother_ed
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:46pmThe question is not whether WE believe it to be true, rather, do THEY believe it to be true.
Their faith is unquestionably strong, and therein lies their power.
Report Post »v15
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:50pmThe “I accept Jesus into my heart so now I’m saved” talk is such Christian BS. They say that and then turn off their mind to anything else – both to things like “Mormonism” that adds things to the Christian community and any kind of science they deem false because they see it as a threat. I agree that Islam is total bunk but it bothers me to see so many “Christians” be as close-minded as the religions they criticize as being close-minded. I’m sick of people wielding Christianity (or any religion) as a weapon against others to judge and suppress and contrary view.
Report Post »calebjim
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:50pmI have read the Holy Koran and find it to be a waste of time and paper. If one would research the life of the founder, one would find that he was an illiterate herdsman and a violent killer. His treatment of his family members was violent. He had several children killed and even took one of his son’s wife as his own. His culture was one of waste. Any person that has reverence for this person or his “religion” (philosophy) is pretty much screwed up.
Report Post »Alina.D
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 2:25pmBrown.. stop trying with your finite brain to understand and judge an infinite God.. its impossible.. thats why He is God. Duh
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 2:53pmBBrown22 You have to read the scripture around those to get the true context. If I pulled something you wrote, I bet in one sentence I could find the same contradictions. Your examples mean nothing, but nice try though. You atheist are so hell bent in disproving something you don’t believe in, you trip all over yourselves in trying to do so. Thanks for the Labor Day laugh.
Report Post »SLAPTHELEFT
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 2:56pmSo mr holland has more cajones than all atheists combined.
No surprise.
Report Post »obamasacommie
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:05pm@brown i guess it’s easy to pick apart Christianity and the Bible when taken out of context and by someone who has no idea how to read the Bible but thats your prerogative. I think the point is that you are fortunate the Christian faith is actually the religion of peace because you are allowed to spew your ignorant views and have faith that no one will try to cut your head off or even threaten you for that matter. As to all the babies killed by God not only do you show your ignorance but you show your agenda. You dont need to believe in the word of God but you should thank him daily for the fact that you live in a country where our morals are based on the Bible because it is those morals and them alone which can be attributed to the greatness of America and all western nations for that matter. The further we get away from those morals and buy into cultural marxism/diversity the closer we get to living in what for lack of a better word is a Godless society. You may be fine with that but you wont when it comes to knock at your door and affects your family.
Report Post »Hunter Nole
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:08pmBBROWN22
It’s easy to post so-called Biblical contradictions in the fashion that you did, but scripture must be scrutinized or looked at under time and context. When was it said and what was God talking about?
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:45pmThe between Sharpur II against the Eastern Roman Empire weakened them both, fatally so for the Persian Empire.
Heraclius who recovered the Levant, Syria & Egypt for the Eastern Roman Empire did so with numerous Arab recruits to refill the ranks of the Roman Army. Recruits that he trained in the Roman way of warfare. Shortly thereafter the Arabs spread like wildfire
The Arabs of the time held Heraclius to be a just ruler.
Now figure the odds.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:51pm““The origins of Islam are a legitimate subject of historical enquiry ”
There are no legitimate subjects of inquiry of history before Islam. All history from before Islamic times is regarded as the Ignorant times. Therefore there is no need for archeology, paleontology, etc. It is the way the Iman say it is.
According to Muslims.
So once a World caliphate is established forget the Pyramids & any other ancient artifact . They will be all destroyed. Islam meets 1984 on steroids.
It also means science will be crippled. Maybe not forever but for a long time.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:57pmSilversmith
I believe Mohammed was real. So many of the leaders at the Battle of Yarmouk knew him. Some didn’t even like him at 1st. Unless that was a conspiracy.
I also believe he a good young man looking to make his way in the world & he eventually became hard & bitter. Such as when his uncle died in battle.
I also think he took the Jewish religious writings & rearranged them (some of them were local variants) & presented them as the Ko’ran.
Report Post »iampraying4u
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:00pmWrong islam is a religion a false religion
Report Post »Ralpha1961
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:11pmBbrown22, you are giving away your source. All you did was copy some out of context verses from a hate site without even cross referencing the facts.
Here is the first example of what is printed in the Bible.
Report Post »Genesis 1:31
New International Version (NIV)
31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
Genesis 6:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled.
grimmster
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:19pm@bbrown22 aka encinom.
Report Post »We all know you didnt actuallt cherrypick that from an actual bible,so where did you go, google, wiki,rev.jim wallis?I truelly hope, that when the day comes and you are taking your last breaths,the only thing you can utter is, oh God, oh God……
Luker410
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:58pmWrong. God is the Creator, the Father of Jesus Christ, and with the Holy Spirit is God Almighty, the Trinity, the Holy Mystery. This is not the god of Islam.
Report Post »Seede
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:58pmBBROWN22
Read your post and see that you either have never really read the bible or if you did you do not understand what you read. I took the first three of your post and by the appearance of your understanding you need to study under a good bible teacher or leave it alone. No.1- is that God was very pleased with His work in (Gen. 1:31) and before sin entered the world in (Gen. 6:6). If you were God wouldn’t you be a little ticked off with guys like you messing up the place? No. 2 – 2 Chron. 7:12,16 is long before the new covenant of Jesus Christ and pertains to the house of sacrifice. Sacrifice is done away with in the new covenant, Acts 7:48, and the temple that is referenced here is the temple that is you (yourself). Also read the following verse and it will tell you in context. — No.3 — refers to both darkness and light which the Lord God does explain – He resides in both. Read — Psalms 139:12 ” Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee .”
You should learn to study and not believe whoever has taught you. As far as baby killers are concerned I think this United States of America would far surpass God. In fact it is the platform of the democrat socialist communist party of America. I didn’t have the time nor desire to correct all eight of your post but you are dead wrong on the other five also.
Report Post ».
Fenrirsulfr
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 5:06pm@BBrown22
Report Post »You seem to take a great deal of interest in something you claim not to believe in.
When taken in context, meaning the entirety of scripture, there are no contradictions in the Bible, zero, none, in fact, the progression of modern science has proved the Bible true in every instance.
BloodSweatandTears
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 6:56pmTake another look. Your soul depends on it. Eternity is endless. The only true living God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, if you let Him, will seek you out. Question why you question faith. Don‘t mistake ’religiosity’ for religion. If you are seeking, seek the one true living God. If you sincerely ask Him, he Will show you the way.
Report Post »Chinishque
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:57pmCult vs. Religion
1. The inability to leave or convert to another belief system under punishment of death or loss of freedom.
2. The brutal removal of individuality.
3. The flaunting of the belief systems rules by the belief system elite in a “do as I say not as I do” scenario.
4. The determined complete destruction of free will or personal agency.
5. The corporal punishment of sins against God or man carried out and determined by the belief systems elite.
6. The ability of the belief systems elite to make decisions that drive their own personal gain.
7. The ability or willingness of the belief systems elite or members to harm members or non-members in order to maintain control of system, funds, territory, or media.
8. The willingness of members to harm members or non-members who purposefully or accidentally besmirch the belief system, its founders, icons, or deity.
9. The belief that their belief system is the only “true” system and that non-members are worthless or must be converted or killed.
10. The belief that the whole of human-kind must be forcibly converted to the belief system if they will not accept it on their own.
11. The belief that death in the service of the belief system and the destruction of non-believers leads to eternal reward from the deity, especially in the form of physical/sexual gratification.
12. The ability of individuals to gain wealth or power at the expense of their followers in the name of reli
Report Post »Chinishque
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:05pm@Silversmith…of the 29 current “hot” conflicts in the world today 27 are between Muslims and their neighbors with Muslims being the aggressor.
Report Post »v15
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:02pmChinishque,
based off your list I’d saying “Mormonism” is a religion and Scientology is a cult. I think Islam falls under “cult” status, too.
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:15amDespite the fact that a billion Muslims profess some level of belief in this story, people outside the Muslim faith consider the story to be imaginary. No one believes this story because this story is a fairy tale. They consider the Koran to be a book written by a man and nothing more. A winged horse that flew to heaven? That is imaginary — as imaginary as flying reindeer.
The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is also completely imaginary.
There is No Jesus to save you..No heaven..No Hell..It’s all Imaginary!
It is time for the human race to grow up and embrace reality.
It is time for us to discard our imaginary gods and move to the next level of our intellectual evolution. It is time to understand our place in the universe and take control of our destiny.
It is time to create Heaven on Earth for everyone. There is no God, and there are so many good things that we can accomplish as a species. Let’s make the most of the opportunity that the universe has given us.
Report Post »SCREW-WINDOWS
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:36amI have seen religious fanatics from all faiths in the mental institution it all depends on how far you want to take your beliefs.
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:41amTo Brown-eye:
As you are void of any religious belief, tell us, what is your moral compass?
Report Post »kevin1122
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:43amBB,
Report Post »Have you actually read the Bible or the Quran?
hidden_lion
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:46amIf the “universe” has given you something, doesn’t that make it God? The big bang theory is the same as the bibles version of creation. Out of nothing exploded everything. Fact is, without religion, mankind would never have evolved past only the strongest will survive. If Atheism were to win, we would quickly devolve back into chaos. All the scrawny intellectuals would be squashed into dust, and the brutes would rule the world.
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:54amTruthurts…apparently the truth of you being suckered into a FAKE religion is too much for you…you cannot even get my avatar name correct!
For far too long priests and preachers have completely ignored the vicious criminal acts that the Bible promotes. The so called “God” of the Bible makes Osama Bin Laden look like a Boy Scout. This God, according to the Bible, is directly responsible for many mass-murders, rapes, pillage, plunder, slavery, child abuse and killing, not to mention the killing of unborn children.
This is your “God”? This is the “Moral Compass” you Christians follow? Your religion is as bad or worst than Islam!
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:03amTake a glass. Hold it up. Drop it. Watch it ‘explode” . Then what happens? pieces lie there. The theory of evolution wants us to believe that something exploded and then all the rest evolved. How? did each little particle of each little piece keep exploding?
Report Post »THEY HAVE NEVER PROVEN THIS. THEY HAVE NEVER FOUND “the missing link” DARWIN LIED
and was proven to have done so…yet people go to these great lengths to try to deny GOD.
Yet everything we wear, sit on, live in and drive was DESIGNED. THE earth was DESIGNED by GOD.
It takes way too much faith to believe that the broken pieces once exploded would keep exploding until they were a human eye or people with individual fingerprints…or people who felt LOVE (when love wasn’t necessary for pro-creation) or animals who give affection and have joy.
SILLY GEESE. GOD is so worthy of our attention; praise and prayers. I‘m so sorry some of you just can’t get it. Of course you were sent COMMIE teachers from the 50s onward whose job it was – was to destroy religion in the USA…makes it easy for them to conquer us. OF course they fell apart, but
who’s looking at those details? Our GOD is an Awesome GOD and worthy to be acknowledged!
avgconservative
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:30amHey Brown-whatever/however-you-want-to-spell-your-stupid-avatar…
Don’t forget the contradiction:
“So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself.” Mt 27:5
and
“Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.” Luke 10:27
Your list is a laugh. An exercise of contextual illiteracy. You pulled most of your material off the internet from other authors who also have an agenda of distortion and misinformation.
You are a poor little man/woman who is angry and disgusted with life, it would seem. Your ignorance and bias is no different that what has been said for hundreds/thousands of years. (yawn)
The basic reason comes from this:
“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom;
all who follow his precepts have good understanding.” Psalm 111:10
I suppose you will misinterpret the word “fear” as well.
The Word of God will continue to be THE most popular book of all times, now and forever. And you can’t do a thing about it. Why? Because you don‘t understand the most basic redemptive properties within the authority of God’s judgment of mankind… no “fear.”
For you, I sincerely can say, “Good LUCK.”
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:33amTo Brown-eye,
I got your name right. You sit on your *********? That is the eye you prefer to see through, isn’t it? And as I suspected, you have no moral compass that you can declare. Can you tell me which of the events you mentioned were instructed by the Bible?
Report Post »bdandsl
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:44amGod bless you.
Report Post »Independent4233
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:58amBBROWN
“It is time to create Heaven on Earth for everyone. There is no God, and there are so many good things that we can accomplish as a species. Let’s make the most of the opportunity that the universe has given us.”
Heh, heh, heh.
Yes, and your “heaven on earth” is a utopia where homosexuals are accepted as”just another lifestyle,” isn’t it, because you don‘t really give a rat’s ass about religion? Your entire fanatical ravings on here are due to your outrage because homosexuality is held in disgust by everyone and every religion. You’re hoping your hateful vitriol will change things. You know, the same hateful rhetoric you use to condemn religion time after time in all your shrieking hysterical posts?“ Is that your way of creating a ”heaven on earth?”
The average homosexual activist is more like the emperor Caligula than anyone else. The more he screamed, the more hysterical he became, frothing at the mouth into insanity.
As a side note, I’m agnostic, but I‘m not a fool who is ready to claim their isn’t a universal consciousness that permeates several planes of existence, which is a basic belief system of Buddhists and other religions, and is based on reincarnation for which there is much evidence, if it is evidence you want.
They believe homosexuals are incarnated in order to pay a heavy karmic debt incurred in another life.
It is a form of punishment. You’re resisting your karmic debt.
Reincarnationists
Report Post »csbaby
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:38amBBrown22 – and your religion of choice would be HUMANISM. Everybody believes something – you just provided us with your doctrine.
Report Post »atechgeek
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:56amIt is clear the “Brown-Eye” is an adolescent or if not, uneducated. His grammar and spelling seem to be of a pre-GED person. He is someone who is trying to “find himself”. It is probably best to take what he says with that in mind. Faithless people are exactly that.
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:59amRejecting God will only earn you a place outside the banquet where their will be weeping, wailing and gnashing of teeth. It will be a place of sheer terror for all eternity and you will have placed yourself there. You will know this and be utterly alone with this thought forever. DO your really want to risk your soul to say there is no God? NO creator of the universe and that it came from nothing? You a thinking person cannot even rationalize that excuse.
Report Post »GPS-Tech
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:00amWhat’s the matter brown? No rebuttal to the homosexual accusations leveled by independent?
Report Post »He described you exactly as you are. You hate religion because it condemns your depraved acts. If only you could remove religion then you would be normal instead of a freak.
rochrealtor
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:00amWe pray for you. The Bible is a history book. you can agree with that. History and behavior today is the same as in the past.You can agree with this. Which path (knowing the past) will you choose?
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:19amI wonder if brown is going to address Sleazy Hippo below?
Report Post »scotie28
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:26amBBROWN22…I can respect your right to your opinion if only you could be mature enough to acknowledge the fact that it is just your opinion. If you choose to disagree about this and re-state your principals as facts then again you are wrong. If these ideas you stated ARE facts then You must be God, an all-knowing omnipotent being, who you claimed didn’t exist…
Report Post »but IF you are wrong are you willing to gamble your eternity on an assumption you have made? I pray you continue your search for the Truth that will set you free. I too was lost once..
mr.goodvibe
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:32amOH Brown, you atheists are stuck in your own delusions of grandeur, if you are truly intellectually honest you would research more the origins of the, Quaran, Hadith, and bible, especially the old testament and it’s origins in Sumeria and Akkad, but you go on believing you are the top of the evolutionary ( theoretical ) ladder. Your arrogance is the roadblock to the truth. There is so much in the fossil record that can not and is not explained by evolutionary theory. There is so much in our past that is sitting in ruin that can not be explained but yet somehow people who are intellectually superior write off these inconvenient facts. Just keep believing you are all knowing and then logically you will have no need to ever learning anything else.
Report Post »Wayner
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:44amBBROWN22 I’ll take my faith and confidence in Jesus and my internal “knowin” that I have eternal life over your dark, gray and hopeless existence anyday… As I read in an earlier context, you have taken your pseudo-intellectual knowledge of the Scriptures and not taken the trouble to examine the entire context of all your so-called “contradictons”… And really not the context of the whole Holy Bible. I can’t judge you, but I highly suspect that if you truly hold these beliefs, then you have already committed the unpardonable sin of rejecting the drawing of the Holy Spirit.. and therefore lost.. I’m sorry.
Report Post »Halo9x
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:27pmGood luck with that idea. The history of mankind is litered with several attempts to make things better. We have even been told we are evolving towards something better. IF that is true why is it taking so long? From where I sit things are getting no better at best and visibly worse as time goes on. From what I’ve seen in my 62 years is that without Christ there is no hope for human beings. Christians are not perfect but I would rather have them as my neighbors than anyone else. The idea that man can or will be good solely on his own is proven false by the long sad history of mankind.
Report Post »You may not accept the Bible or Jesus, that is your right but at the Judgement, please don’t whine you were never told about Jesus or had a Bible to read! As for me and my household, we will serve the LORD!
Glenn in Virginia
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 2:13pmThe most arrogant, self-righteous, evangelizing proponents of any religion I’ve ever seen (and I’ve seen a lot of them) are atheists.
They put even the wackiest of Islamo-fascists to shame. Why, they even put the Obamabots to shame!
Personally, I could never be an atheist; I haven’t got THAT much faith in anything.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:47pmTRUTHURTS — One does not need religious faith to be moral. One does not need religion to tell you it is wrong to betray, to rape, to murder, to thieve. These moral as innate to all human beings.
What I find disturbing is that, apparently, religion is the only thing keeping your desire to rape and murder and thieve in check.
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:22pmCan you show me any place on earth where the moral compass of man alone has resulted in those innate morals being practiced? I don’t think so. So your premise cannot be substantiated. Can you tell me why Karl Marx would suggest that the abolition of religion is necessary in a communist society?
Christianity is not only a religion of peace and love, it is also a religion of tolerance and free choice. You can choose not to believe and I will pray for you and then move on. I did not seek you out to tell you how intellectually deficient you are for putting your faith in man. I am completely comfortable in my beliefs and I do not need your agreement to achieve that comfort. So, why are you and the rest of your atheist friends here trying to convince us Christians that we are fools unless and until we agree with you? As I said earlier to your faithless fellows, you would be wise to befriend the Christians in this country rather than treat them as enemies. The real religious enemy to all of us is the radical world of Islam, the original subject of this page.
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:29pmBruce P,
I noticed you were speaking of one person. I am speaking of entire societies.
Report Post »SolitudeBliss
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 5:28pmI am glad you are so sure and certain on your stance. Since I cannot say with such certainty I thus call myself an Agnostic (in search of truth and knowledge) I would really like to know what evidence you have to say with such absolute certainty that there is NO God.
If you believe in the Big Bang theory, one question for you, where did the original super-dense mass come from????
Both religion and science leave questions unanswered. If the 22 in your name is your age, here’s some sage advise: Never state anything with absolute certainty if you do not have facts to back it up.
Report Post »piper22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 5:54pmThat must be why every movie uses swear words from all the other equally false religions, and dont just pick on Christianity.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:49pmHey Bruce my man, these links can help you out
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/atheists_more_immoral.html#.UEVBDol5mc0
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/peoplegood.html#.UEVBwIl5mc0
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:18pmThank you for sharing your views. Now please move on out of the light so I can see what I’m doing :) I really don’t have any idea what people get out of telling people that there is no God and blah blah blah and letting everyone be. I enjoy my faith. Do you enjoy trying to take that away? Does it hurt you so badly that you have to try to squash it? Is it right that you need to try to stomp out God in your life and prove you can hate Him more than the average atheist? Do you know that by doing so you only reaffirm my faith and give justification for my own suffering? I will not suffer in silence so you can scratch that off of your books. Have a good day :)
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:11amThere is only one God. And his one and only Son, the word made flesh, The Christ, Jesus.
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:17amYour God and Jesus are as FAKE as Allah…Grow up and stop believing in fairy tales!
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:25amSimply take a moment to think about the following statement:
“Hello, my name is Jesus. I love you deeply. I have loved you since you were conceived in the womb and I will love you for all eternity. I died for you on the cross because I love you so much. I long to have a loving personal relationship with you. I will answer all of your prayers through my love. But if you do not get down on your knees and worship me, and if you do not EAT MY BODY and DRINK MY BLOOD, then I WILL INCINERATE YOU WITH UNIMAGINABLY TORTUOUS PAIN IN THE FIRES OF HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY BWAH HA HA HA HA HA!”
Yes, this is the central message of Christianity.
Think about this message. We have a being who, according to the Standard Model of God, embodies love. Yet, if you do not get down on your knees and worship him, you will be physically tortured for all eternity. What sort of love is that?
What kind of sick “God” demands a blood sacrifice? What kind of sacrifice is performed by an immortal being becoming a human only to become an immortal being again?
Where is the sacrifice?
Isn’t it amazing that “God” disappeared after the devil invented video cameras?
Report Post »kcsparky
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:27amRoger that!!
Report Post »NOTAMUSHROOM
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:29amBBrown
Report Post »That comment was not necessary. You atheists are such rabid jerks most of the time. You made your point in your post above. Leave it at that for goodness sake.
SLEAZYHIPPOs ILLEGITIMATE OFFSPRING
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:00am@ BBROWN…..You are not exactly accurate my friend. While God is a God of love he is also a God of Justice and Holiness and Righteousness. When you exalt one characteristic of God over others you have something less than God. Yes he did create us with the capacity to choose good and evil, and yes we chose to rebel and do evil. Of course, he said that the wages of sin would be death, both physical and spiritual (hell is really just ultimate and final seperation from God which is what many claim with their whole life they want so he let’s them have it). Because of his love and mercy he has taken the sin of believers upon himself so that his justice and wrath against sin is satisfied and not compromised (if it was not satisified he would cease to be a holy God by not dealing with evil) and yet he is able to display his attributes of mercy, love, & grace without compromise either. It is his triumph over evil with good by giving us the opportunity for something we do not deserve and cannot earn. And yes there is a mountain of evidence for the God of the bible and the truth therein. I too at one time was an atheist as yourself, but after close objective examination of many forms of evidence and deep questioning there was only one conclusion that a reasonable person could come to. However, if one is not willing to face the fact that they are in their heart evil, selfish, and self-loving then their pride will not let them taste and see that the Lord is good. Thank you.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:14amBBROWN22 : I know that you are sure you are right. I am just as sure that not only are you wrong, but you will spend eternity in nothingness…aware but nothing. GOD created you for a reason. He gave you freedom of Choice. You have read enough to know some of the things you are espousing but you obviously never bothered to find out why. I challenge you to take the GREAT ADVENTURE BIBLE STUDY or read anything by Scott Hahn and then tell us these same things you are trying to say here.
I’m not about to throw PEARLS before SWINE, but I know from all kinds of experiences that GOD is real, JESUS is real and thank GOD they are. (also the HOLY SPIRIT)… you know enough (as the saying goes) to be dangerous …but not to us. You can touch this… you are dangerous to yourself which is just where Satan wants you to be. Destroyed for ever. IF you bother enough to write about it, why not learn about it. You have not. Every sentence you’ve written shows me that you are living on half-truths or made up fiction..you have been ‘invited to the party’ but went to the wrong address.
GOOD LUCK, DUDE.
Report Post »Independent4233
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:34amBBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:17am
“Your God and Jesus are as FAKE as Allah…Grow up and stop believing in fairy tales!”
Everybody understand that this is a homosexual activist who is hysterically bent on religion, because all of them condemn homosexuality, and he utterly despises them for it.
But note in particular that he’s very careful never to outright denigrate Islam with anything specific as he does Christianity, because he knows they don’t show the same tolerance as Christians and very likely could come looking for his head.
This little twinkie thinks the way to gain acceptance for his perversions is to work toward eliminating religion altogether or naively thinks he can intimidate followers into acceptance.
Homosexuality is a mental disorder, so it is no wonder their attitudes display anti-social hate that reveals other mental aberrations as well.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:52amZeus would totally kick Jesus’s butt.
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:59amIndep- I agree bbrown is a screaming lunatic and until he calms down and debates honestly and properly he should probably be put into a insane asylum. I’m very interested however, that if you are agnostic why you disapprove of homosexual behavior… For me, even if I was an un-believer, I would still view homosexuality as unnatural because evolution and life is geared toward reproduction and homosexuals can‘t do that thus it’s unnatural. As a Christian, I bring this up and it’s a valid point. In any case, you claim that Brown is a homosexual manaiac. I’m not disagreeing, I’m just wondering how do you know this?
Report Post »GlennaBeckski
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 5:06pmBBROWN22
Report Post »I would suggest you buy and read a book called “The Case for Christ” written by Lee Strobel who was at one time a staunch athiest. It is clear no amount of talking to you is going to change your way of thinking. You need to be alone with a book that will open your mind to the truth or visit a God Fearing Church. Pray to God to reveal whether or not He is real and then examine the Bible. The Bible is God’s Living Word and the Truths that lie therein must be revealed to you through the Spirit of God. God knows the intent of your heart.. better even then you yourself do. If you earnestly seek Him he will not turn you away. If you are trying to discredit His Word to benefit your own selfish desires or lifestyle… He knows that also. He loves you and will accept you as you are as long as you accept Him as He is.
Should you decide to hold fast to your errant thinking that Jesus is a fairy tale.. some have said that you will spend eternity in a place of nothingness. Perhaps it is really a place of torment where you never sleep, never see the light of day… never have a drink of water.. A place where you will hear for eternity the echoing of all the voices here today who have tried to share the truth. A place that is void of all the good and beautiful things God has provided. You will not be alone.. Hell was created for the fallen demonic angels so you will have plenty of company. All Christians on this forum should be praying for your soul… I know I will be
BelindaB
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:02amthe koran WAS made up, by muslim MEN, in order to CONTROL the Women of islam….and for their own self-serving interests….EVERYBODY already KNOWS that!!!! It’s a CULT made up of insecure,savage,muslim men..PERIOD….they ALL LIE…they even believe their own lies…..like obama.
Report Post »kcsparky
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:28amExtremely well put…..nice job!!!
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:37amDitto. Islam is a fraternity that encourages its members to commit murder, misogyny, theft and deceit, all to glorify allah. This “religion” is the antithesis of Christianity. Sadly, our own constitution will prevent us from defending ourselves from the cancer within.
Report Post »saranda
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:55pm@belindab – so funny to see those words on what is essentially a Mormon site. You could substitute LDS for Muslim and it would still ring true.
Made up by a con man who faked a translation of the book of Abraham, could not duplicate his “lost” initial translation of the book of Mormon, used his religion to seduce and wed women as young as 14, made up multiple fist vision stories and that only covers some of Joe smith. You should be equally disgusted with this.
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 6:13pmSaranda,
You compare LDS to Islam as interchangeable? The Qur’an instructs the believers to give the non-believers three choices, convert, submit or die. Is that what the Book of Mormon teaches?
Report Post »Eastinfection
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:02amAll religions are made up to some degree. I’m a christian but seriously take into account the fact that the observation we base our teaching on are a collection of narratives composed by imperfect, fallible sinners- many of which, by the very nature of man, had their own agendas and “misrememories”. Not to mention certain key events were moved from one part of the calendar to others to ease Christianity’s assimilation into other cultures. It should not dilute Christ’s message, which i do believe is ultimately, accurately represented by most gospels (whether or not they made the cut into the NT)
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:33amA devout Christian would point out that there is the Bible — God’s perfect word. Yes, there is the Bible. The Bible talks all about Jesus. It predicts Jesus‘ coming and then tells us about Jesus’ time on earth.
But this same Bible also tells us that slavery is great, that women should be hated, that animal and human sacrifice is necessary, and that massacring babies and small children is one of God’s favorite pastimes.
We don’t believe the Bible when it talks about slavery, misogyny, etc. Why would we believe the Bible when it talks about Jesus? Everything else that you believe in has left behind some sort of evidence that proves its existence.
But with Jesus there is nothing. There is no physical evidence of his existence.
There is no miraculous evidence — it is very strange, but not a single one of Jesus’ miracles left behind any physical evidence for us to see today. There is no prayer evidence. No matter how much we pray to Jesus, nothing ever happens.
Report Post »ginge
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:37amListen up folks. What we personally believe is being used by the NWO to pit us against each other. Most Muslims can’t read so they know only what their leaders tell them.They at least have that excuse. What is our excuse?
Report Post »After WW2 NWO gangsters gave the nod for the US to dominate geopolitical military and finances because the rest of the world was in shambles. Meantime we prospered so well wealthy NWO bankers have brought along cheaper labor in emerging countries. We now are not considered profitable to them.As 1984 reads they must foment perpetual wars. Ergo war on terrorism. They make make money financing both sides in war.Mostly uneducated Muslims are easy to manipulate. But NWO’s goal is to bring the 3rd world poverty and diseases to US.We have a bleak future unless “we the people” educate ourselves to the demonic NWO military and financial geopolitical chess games. We are all busy reacting to distracting issues that the NWO propoganda uses the clueless MSM puts in front of us on an hourly and daily basis. We should be telling Washington to get out of Global entanglements before they drain our wealth,technology and resources. Some say that would be “isolationism” but it is the only way to save our nation. We can make our own trade with our own people. We have the technology and educated “can do” population to accomplish this freedom. They slid this “ globalism”junk into our vocabulary so smoothly nobody even questions it anymore. Let US MAKE IT HAPPEN.
Eastinfection
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:51am@BBROWN… It’s unwise to make assumptions about what another does and does not believe. You craft responses for arguments i do not state. I stated i consider myself a christian. I also stated that all these words were written by imperfect, fallible men. If you read a little into my words you would see that most Christians would tell me that i am not a christian at all. Save your hateful, presumptuous rhetoric for blind sheep…. now THAT would be a miracle to behold.
Report Post »Eastinfection
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:56am@GINGE.. as much as i love global domination conspiracy theories, your post had little to do with the conversation i was having with the angry atheist elitist “Mr. 22″ and should have been posted solo instead of as a response.
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 12:26pmEast- If the bible is made up by men with no influence from God then why bother believing it if God doesn’t endorse it? Personally, if I didn’t think God influenced and guided the writers of the bible to make an infallible work, I wouldn’t bother believing a word of it. It’s only because I believe God was the real author behind the scenes that the bible has any real validity at all.
Report Post »NanNJ
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:58amWho did he think he was dealing with here? I would love to see this, but sir, I think you have stepped in it. You are not dealing with sanity here. I hope you have a really good body guard, for you and your family and for the rest of your lives.
Report Post »GlennaBeckski
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 4:37pmKinda what I was thinking. As a man of obvious intellect he had to have know there would be an onslaught of backlash.
Report Post »IKW
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:57amI have read the Bible many times and got about 60% through the Koran…the Koran looks just like the Bible as far as the stories go but is all out of order as if someone was intentionally corrupting the message for their own gain. The movie The Book of Eli, is a good example of why bad people love The Good Book…there is wisdom and whomever interprets the wisdom is then the moral and incidentally of course, the ruler of the land or area under his control.
Islam is not a religion, it is an ideology…an ideology that promotes murder and lies in the name of God. Men may have corrupted all religions at some point in their history, but Islam is the corruption of the Bible and we must recognize that before we are all corrupted. Let those with ears hear, and those with eyes see.
Report Post »EastTexas
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:15amIslam is a political Ideology!!! I don’t care what spin you put on IT
Is it time yet?
Report Post »Reagan64
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:56amIslam is told to the majority of the followers, because they are illiterate. Treated as sheep not as shepards.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:54amWhats the fuss, all religions are made up.
Report Post »endgamer
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:54amThe fact is.. They’re all made up! http://youtu.be/oZgT1SRcrKE
Report Post »pma_guy
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:53amWhen Christianity is attacked or researched by scholars, some of those people (Josh McDowell) become Christians because it is the TRUTH! On the other hand, if the muslims cannot even endure a little (or a lot) of scrutiny, what are they hiding?
Report Post »NOTAMUSHROOM
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:15amEverything. It is a fascist autocracy sold as a “religion” and we infidels are not supposed to notice. Instead, we are to blindly accept it because of our Christian tolerance of other “religions”. In this way, they use our own ethic against us. Ya think that might be why it was set up that way in the first place by the pedophile they “worship”?
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:52pmVerse 2:192 of the Koran,
“[P]ersecution is worse than slaughter.”
Report Post »LameLiberals
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:51amMormons got their scriptures from the bottom of a magic hat which only one mortal man could see.
Rev Sun Myung Moon dies after claiming to be a messiah
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/self-proclaimed-messiah-unification-church-leader-the-rev-sun-myung-moon-has-died-heres-his-life-story/
Funny how Muslims can spew crap like they found America FIRST but when when anyone challenges them on their religion they threaten to kill them.
Report Post »Muslims discovered America first
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/jumah-at-the-dnc-speaker-muslims-visited-america-prior-to-columbus/
mbriz
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:14amChristianity, and the Catholic Church have done as much damage, if not more, throughout history, than Islam.
Report Post »Niruba
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:34amMBRIZ I must agree with you totally.
Report Post »(Lets get ready for another back lash from the good christians who may not want to hear it).
Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:54amTo the previous two atheists, do you have any facts or statistics to back up your statements? Or do you say these things just to make yourselves feel better about your decision to be non-believers? Could it be that you will not feel completely comfortable until everyone agrees with you and is destined for the same fate? Tell us how you believe that a religion that promotes murder, misogyny and deceit is less destructive than one that basically teaches us to do no harm. Something tells me that you are both logically deficient or terribly ignorant.
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:13amMbriz- As much as I bet you really want that to be true it’s not. While yes, people under the banner of “Christianity” caused events like the crusades they were certainly not following the orders of christ and the pope and his followers were doing things for their own selfish and evil desires. None of their actions reflected Christ’s teachings and I think I can safely say they were using Christianity for their own ends. That is VERY obvious. In fact, many popes back then were far more into the perks that the pope brought like wealth rather than with the religion itself. This is very obvious and you only need to look at a few to get the picture. Unlike popes today who don’t have any perks really and just do it for Catholicism. Muslims on the other hand have caused far more damage and are following their holy book correctly. They are told to go out and cause damage to those who won’t convert. Therefore, real christians have caused little if any damage in history while Muslims have caused a lot. Your argument is null and void. Try better next time.
Report Post »BrerRabbit
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:48amDead man walking?
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:54amAren’t we all if we are standing against them?
Report Post »noah2854
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:48amislam ,the cult that help to destroy our cultures and our world .that should be a better tittle .
Report Post »HKS
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:47amIt’s not a religion per say, it’s a government disguised as a religion. It’s the ultimate example of mixing religion and politics.
Report Post »noah2854
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:46amBut islam is a made up bull crap created by a pedophile that claims that he can hear voices ,in todays day he can be call a bipolar . and by the way only in America they are radical and non radical because when I used to live in france they say themselves that theres only one islam if you talk against morehamhead they kill you periot . get rid of them mf crazy people send them back to the sand were they belong .
Report Post »weldman7
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:44amThe followers of the religion of peace show their love and patience again.
Report Post »Whistleblower
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:50amIs President Barack Obama being blackmailed ?
http://illinoispaytoplay.com/2012/09/01/is-president-barack-obama-being-blackmailed/
Report Post »Independent4233
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 3:31pmRDawkins
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:43am
” It is time to understand our place in the universe and take control of our destiny. It is time to create Heaven on Earth for everyone.”
Here’s another twinkie that sees religion as an obstacle to homosexual acceptance, so he thinks his vitriol will neutralize it.
Or he’s the same one hysterically screaming all over the board, using another handle.
Hahahahaha.
He doesn’t understand that people use religious beliefs to condone their disgust and revulsion for perverts and their perversions, because nature instills in each of them that very important instinct in order to assure the perpetuation of the species.
After religion goes by the board, twinkie, what about natural abhorrance to your sodomy?”
You’re digging your own grave and creating unmentionable rage against you that will be your end.
Report Post »RDawkins
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:43amIt is time for the human race to grow up and embrace reality. It is time for us to discard our imaginary gods and move to the next level of our intellectual evolution. It is time to understand our place in the universe and take control of our destiny. It is time to create Heaven on Earth for everyone.
There is no God, and there are so many good things that we can accomplish as a species. Let’s make the most of the opportunity that the universe has given us.
Here is the thing that I would like to help you understand: The four billion people who are not Christians look at the Christian story in exactly the same way that you look at the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story.
In other words, there are four billion people who stand outside of the Christian bubble, and they can see reality clearly. The fact is, the Christian story is completely imaginary.
How do the four billion non-Christians know, with complete certainty, that the Christian story is imaginary? Because the Christian story is just like the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Muslim story. There is the magical insemination, the magical star, the magical dreams, the magical miracles, the magical resurrection, the magical ascension and so on. People outside the Christian faith look at the Christian story and note that these miracles are supposed to “prove” that Jesus is God, but, predictably, these miracles left behind no tangible evidence for us to examine and scientifically verify.
Report Post »Gazoiks
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:40amYes RDawkins, many faiths look at each other and deny the others authenticity. As another poster posited earlier, when you read the old testament of the bible, it looks overly harsh and the motives of God can be easily impugned by the individual readings of a few verses here and there, but when it is read as a whole story, and in context as one story, the fall of mankind and the plan of redemption, things are not so cut and dried. All of the old testament is mankind’s attempt at living Godly, without a Savior, and failing miserably. All of the New Testament is about transformation of the heart as mankind meets and accepts its savior and begins to live the empowered life that God intended all along. The paradigm has shifted where true leadership is through service to others, and loving your enemy is the new norm. Have men twisted these scriptures to harm others? Absolutely, but that doesn’t negate the fact that those who follow them properly are being transformed by them, and changing the world for the better. You can call it a fairy tale all you would like, you don’t mock us as Christians, you only mock God. There is more archeological evidence backing up the Christian/Jewish bible than there is for any other religion. I too once mocked God, and I challenged Him to prove himself to me. He did, and my life has forever been changed. Maybe if you spend less time mocking, and put the same amount of effort into seeking, He will prove himself to you as well.
Report Post »Bucke7
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 1:38pmIn a couple thousand years, there will be no evidence of your existence. After a couple of EMP nukes wipe out much of the electronic records, fires and wars destroy other, many of us will have no record we ever existed. However, the similarity of events among religions prove the Biblical record. They speak to traditions and phrophecies that were not written, but oral records committed to memory in the days before written history and carried to new lands as people scattered out from the place of the origins of man. However, only one faith or tradition carries the names and accurate records of the events and ties those events before and events beyond in a seamless tradition or record. Are there other written ancient records. Sure…but where they support the Biblical record is more proof for the Bible. However, these other cultures that spread from the orinal point of creation and formed their own cultures will neccessarily have religions and traditions they formed that are different, but note the similarities in their earliest stories and traditions, showing participation in the earliest events of mankind portrayed in Genisus. Christianity has saved millions; tyrants, athiests, and false religions have killed millions. God said do not “murder”, but if someone in the faith justifies murder, they are not His followers. We all die. Since we are all His creation, we do not have the positional authority to Judge God, only his true followers can be judged for acts.
Report Post »captainbars
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:43amvery interesting…an in-depth study of Islam by a non-christian with rock-solid credentials and proof, and he’s not crumbling under pressure/threats. Keep standing, Tom–truth is like a boulder–those who refuse to believe its existence in their path will only beat themselves bloody against it.
Report Post »DLV
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:15amYes, he is quite ballsy I’ll give him that.
Report Post »jacobstroubles
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:43amBoo whoo.. the truth always ruffles the feathers of those who are engaged in the lie..
After the rapture, and when the AC is done using islam like a $3.00 mule to slaughter all that wont accept islam,, he’ll proclaim himself GOD. islam will be no more..there will be only one world religion.
Report Post »it will be his way or the highway.
Niruba
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:41amWhenever logic or science interferes with crazy beliefs you can expect an uprising from the believers.
Report Post »When you are dealing with a people who make it up as they go along you can expect worse. Truth is not acceptable when you are dealing with those who need lies to perform atrocities.
kickagrandma
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:38amHa! Welcome to reality, people. Not only have the people who follow muhamid been duped for centuries, so have the people who follow the democrats, and sadly to say the republicans as well. At the risk of bringing light to the churches, so many church-goers have been duped by all religions for most of them (not ALL of them) teach as truths the wishes of man rather than the commands of GOD.
TRUTH IS WELCOMED by the TRUTH-seekers in this world. Those who live the lie want no part of TRUTH for it sheds light on their wicked ways. Live in THE LIGHT, BLAZERS.
Romans 16:17-20
Report Post »holy ghostbuster
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:56amAll religions are “man-made.” When people start living in reality, the world will be a better place.
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:38amReally?!!! Your reality has already existed under a variety of communist regimes. Are they better places? As far as I can tell, everywhere that God‘s compass was replaced by man’s, those in power took over complete control of the masses. Is that the reality you want? When the entire planet achieves that reality, where will you be? Will you be happy then? Maybe so, because misery loves company, doesn’t it?
Report Post »Tractorboy
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:09pmAmen Grams, The wicked would wish that all houses of worship,and practices, especially Christain ones be bulldozed away and replaced with things that would please satan so-as he could corrupt and further destroy mans souls, HOLYGBUSTER’s idea of reality is whatever is culturally acceptable, and satisfies his selfish desires, I’m sure to follow Gods teaching would be a huge downer in his life, when just the opposite would be true, I try my best to follow Gods rules, not mans, abortion, stealing, lying, etc. all cool, under mans rules. I try to be like Jesus, compassionate, giving, loving, forgiving, Jesus Christ is my hero and my lord and savior, this will not change. God Bless Brothers and Sisters.
Report Post »RDawkins
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:37amAll religion is made up…there is no God, No heaven, no demons..these are fairy tale stories told to keep both the weak minded and the poor from murdering the rich!
The Bible is the worst book of hate there is,,,and this fairy tale has killed millions to foster its beliefs!
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:05amCan you give us some examples of hate in the Bible? Can you explain how the Qur’an is less hateful than the Bible?
BTW, fairy tales don’t kill, men do.
Report Post »BBrown22
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 10:49amThe following passages are a very small percentage of the total passages approving of murder and hate in the Bible:
Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)
Kill Witches
You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17 NAB)
Kill Homosexuals
“If a man lies with a male as with a women, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.” (Leviticus 20:13 NAB)
Kill Fortunetellers
A man or a woman who acts as a medium or fortuneteller shall be put to death by stoning; they have no one but themselves to blame for their death. (Leviticus 20:27 NAB)
Death for Hitting Dad
Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15 NAB)
Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)
Death for Fornication
Report Post »A priest’s daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, sh
The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:20amOh yeah, I kill witches almost everyday. Who wants to go on a summoner hunt with me this afternoon?
Report Post »Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 11:48amBrown-eye, all of your references are Old Testament. Have you read the New Testament, you know, the one that abrogates the old law of the Old Testament?
While you are speaking for RDumbkins, where are your references on the Qur’an to show how it is less hateful than the Bible? Whatever peaceful message contained in the Qur’an is abrogated by instruction to kill, punish, oppress and deceive all non-believers. That would include you, wouldn’t it? Is there anything like that in the New Testament? I think it might be in your best interest to befriend some Christians so they will protect you from the Muslims. Ever thought about that one. You can argue all day with Christians and still walk away with your empty head on your shoulders. Let me see you do this is Iran.
Report Post »Vydunas
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:35amWhen Bible scholars call into question the sacred texts, Christians pray for the poor deluded dupes and move on. When the Koran gets the same treatment, Moslems threaten violence. That says it all.
Report Post »PorkPIG
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:59amTruth , you can’t argue any way you want about religion but it comes down to that .
Report Post »mbriz
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 8:30amAre you kidding, Christianity has it’s own history of violence against nonbelievers. All religions have are crap, and are still destroying the planet.
Truthurts
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 9:50amAll organizations are susceptible to corruption, including religious organizations. That corruption does not by default represent the religion itself or its most faithful followers. This story is about the one major religion that glorifies violence and corruption and is a global threat to the freedom that allows you to express what YOU believe. If you spoke openly on the streets of Saudi Arabia or Egypt in the manner you speak here, you would soon die at the hands of men as directed by their religious text, regardless of whether or not that text was based on fact or fiction.
Report Post »CrawfishFestival2
Posted on September 3, 2012 at 7:33amIslam is a religious, political and cultural system. Its no more deserving of protection than that of Nazism or Communism with which, by the way, it shares a great deal. Islam is not a race and therefore criticism of it is not racist.
Report Post »