Man Wins Right to Post Church-State Separatist Display in Tenn. County Courthouse
- Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:15pm by
Billy Hallowell
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The battle over the separation of church and state has been alive and well in Mountain City, Tennessee. After years of debate, a local man named Ralph Stewart has come to a settlement with local officials after charging that the Johnson County courthouse has been promoting Christianity and violating the U.S. Constitution with its Ten Commandments display.
Stewart took particular issue with the display of a Ten Commandments plaque that hangs in the courthouse’s lobby. The display is a part of an exhibition that has been put together to showcase the history of American law. The plaque reads, “The Historical Foundation of American Law, Moral Values, and Code of Conduct.”
While Stewart originally wanted it removed from the courthouse, he has, instead, come to an agreement, thus ending his lawsuit against Johnson County. As part of the arrangement, the county has agreed to also post a display that the man created to explain the importance of church-state separation. This messages present on his posters claim that the Ten Commandments are not the foundation of American law and that church and state must remain separated.
In addition to this inclusion, the local government will also pay $75,000 to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, for fees incurred during the legal battle. A $1 payment will also be allocated to Stewart — clearly a symbolic sum to illustrate his victory.
Americans United explains the other changes that will take place as a result of the agreement:
Under the terms of the settlement, displays will be limited to the lobby and hallways in the lower level of the courthouse. Displays must relate to American or Tennessee law or Johnson County history and must meet certain aesthetic requirements.
The county is forbidden to reject a display simply because commissioners don’t like the content. If the county purports to reject a display for aesthetic reasons, the county must provided a detailed, written explanation and propose an alternative design that would be acceptable.
In addition, officials also agreed to put a disclaimer in the courthouse that makes it clear that the displays are sponsored by private citizens, not the county.
Ralph Stewart with his display (Photo Credit: Americans United)
Now that the case has come to an end, the man at the center of it says he hopes that it will dissuade other counties from displaying Christian texts on government property. ”The concept that government should not be promoting a religion is such a really cool idea that we came up with, and they just don’t seem to grasp that,” Stewart said, referring to local political leaders.
Stewart’s battle with the county dates back to 2008, when he first complained about the presence of the plaque. Initially, the county created a public forum area and incorporated the plaque into it in an attempt to stem the man’s criticism. In addition to the Ten Commandments, other quotes from the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were included.
Stewart also wanted his display to be a part of the new forum, but it was declined. Now, this has apparently been rectified.
(H/T: The Republic via AP)
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Comments (245)
Komponist-ZAH
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:49pm“…promoting Christianity and violating the U.S. Constitution with its Ten Commandments display.”
Ummm….the Decalogue is in the Torah/Pentateuch and therefore common to both Christianity and Judaism, genius. And the Constitution does not prohibit the “promotion” of any religion by local, state, or even the federal government, only the establishment, by the Federal Congress, of an official religion. How does a display of the Ten Commandments in county courthouse constitute a “law [passed by Congress] regarding an establishment of religion”?
Report Post »Scruff
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:04pmI swear your post was not yet displayed when I wrote mine. Agreed!
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:04pmBecause of these two facts. Liberals are stupid, intellectually, so they have issues with understanding simpe english. Number two, liberals are evil, and are ok with limiting your freedoms by simply claiming that they have a right to limit your freedoms because of something they mistakenly think is in the constitution.
If liberals could sell the idea that killing two year old toddlers was legal and listed in the US constitution they would line up in droves to do it.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:09pmMy how the pendulum swings. You push your beliefs, they push theirs.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:14pm[Pontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:09pm
My how the pendulum swings. You push your beliefs, they push theirs.]
The problem is that our beliefs are backed up by the actual constitution and their beliefs are made up, are not present in the US constitution and are just plain bad policy, even if they were in the constitution.
Your comment is simply saying that evil people will push for what they want and good people will push for what they want and we should count both sides of equal moral value, which is rather stupid in the first place.
Report Post »TRUTHandFREEDOM
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:15pmI was also just about to post almost exactly what you posted, only , maybe with a slight bit more NYC attitude, so it’s probably better that we just go with yours.
I will add though that I hate seeing government back down to these people. They are as wrong as wrong can be. No religeon is being established. If a president puts a Cross or a Star of David on the front lawn of the Whitehouse and the Capitol building and the Pentagon, it is STILL not a law establishing a religeon!
Law school not required! The founders used plain english on this stuff.
Report Post »Restore the Republic
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:19pmYet it establishes Monotheistic “religion” over Polytheistic “religion”… clearly establishing one over the other in everything from the pledge, to statements on its currency. Hypocrite much?
Report Post »HKS
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:21pmI always thought the people are the government and most people are Christians. What’s the problem here? Why is this even a discussion. The tail is wagging the dog again.
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:49pmPontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:09pm
__________________________________
Seems like projection imo.
How do you define “pushed”?
Report Post »Demanding a personal screed seems to be more along the lines of what P.J O’Rourke might call “fashionable worries”.
Watchingtheweasels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:22pmIt doesn’t, but that isn’t the point. Progressive atheists are on the attack, and their jihad against Christianity is every bit as virulent as the ones the Mohammedans are waging against the west. Most curious is the $75,000 in “legal fees” that the communists collected. Now you know how an unpopular group like this that would be hard pressed to get donantions from individuals funds its jihad.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:50pm@kmichaels
If the founders wanted the constitution to include the 10 Commandments then they would be there.
[that our beliefs are backed up ~ their beliefs are made up,]
Speaking religiously, all beliefs are made up. There are over 300 million Americans in this country which means there are over 300 million beliefs. One groups beliefs do not get to ride rough shot over others. And no, the absence of religion is not the endorsement of atheism.
[Your comment is simply saying that evil people]
Report Post »Your premise is that anyone who doesn’t goosestep to your religious dogma is inherently evil. This makes you a fruitcake. The court house is not your church. Deal with it.
Falindraun
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:53pmEndorsement (of a religion) sends a message to nonadherents that they are outsiders, not full members of the political community, and an accompanying message to adherents that they are insiders, favored members of the political community.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 8:36pm@Falindraun The Declaration of Independence says Creator, not Creators. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief of many gods. Furthermore, it states, self evident truths, not relative truth or personal beliefs. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that Man alone can define and determine what is truth. It also said, Supreme Judge of the World, not appointed clergy or self righteous individual. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that man is not accountable for his acts and may seek his own path. But there’s more, it said, Divine Providence, not anarchy or Governmental oversight. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that Man alone can make himself right or prosperous and seek his own wisdom, or create his own personal system of guidance or morality, for his own good and safety in life or society.
We as a Nation have adopted a set of Standards and code of Morality, whose origin is from everlasting, endurance ever sound, and Authorship by the Legislator of the Whole Universe. We as a Nation have humbly sought for our intentions to be judged and considered worthy of protection or success by the Great Governor of the World, our Creator. We as a Nation have proclaimed this Faith and declared his Presence, in our writings and our acts.
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 9:11pmPontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:50pm
@kmichaels
If the founders wanted the constitution to include the 10 Commandments then they would be there.
_______________________________________________
Thats silly.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 10:03pm@COLT1860
Report Post »The Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration of independence. If you want to make a case about god and the Declaration of Independence then do so with King George the Third. We’re discussing law, which cannot give preferential treatment to any religion. We cannot have one courthouse displaying the commandments without allowing another to display quran passages. It is better to be void of these things on government land than to try to be all inclusive which is exactly what you got going on in this case.
banjarmon
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 11:25pmcolt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 8:36pm
@Falindraun The Declaration of Independence says Creator, not Creators. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief of many gods. Furthermore, it states, self evident truths, not relative truth or personal beliefs. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that Man alone can define and determine what is truth. It also said, Supreme Judge of the World, not appointed clergy or self righteous individual. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that man is not accountable for his acts and may seek his own path. But there’s more, it said, Divine Providence, not anarchy or Governmental oversight. Right there, our Government rejected the religious belief that Man alone can make himself right or prosperous and seek his own wisdom, or create his own personal system of guidance or morality, for his own good and safety in life or society.
We as a Nation have adopted a set of Standards and code of Morality, whose origin is from everlasting, endurance ever sound, and Authorship by the Legislator of the Whole Universe. We as a Nation have humbly sought for our intentions to be judged and considered worthy of protection or success by the Great Governor of the World, our Creator. We as a Nation have proclaimed this Faith and declared his Presence, in our writings and our acts.
WELL SAID AND WORTH REPEATING
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 11:35pm@PONTIAC “We cannot have one courthouse displaying the commandments without allowing another to display quran passages. It is better to be void of these things on government land than to try to be all inclusive which is exactly what you got going on in this case.”
TRY TELLING THAT to the Supreme Court which has the Ten Commandments inside their Courtroom, on their entrance doors, and outside the Court in front of the building. Our Government was not founded by Muslims, it was founded by Protestant Christians, Western Europeans. It is the principles of Christianity embedded into fabric of our Society which has allowed the most religious liberty and tolerance of differing beliefs to exist in this great Nation. Go to China or any Arab Muslim Nation to see the opposite. See my numerous posts on this article for historical quotes. Unless you have some historical evidence not dating from these past fifty years and not based on some modern secular liberal thought and Progressive court system, I ain’t buying it.
Report Post »CHRISTIANAMERICAN
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 1:10amSo……. Let’s just pray for all the delusional idiots who try to change America and Americans from GOD loving people into imbecilic morons like them. How stupid is that!
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 7:57amI wrote the US supreme Court after hearing of Justice Thomas dissent over the Utah Highway Patrol Roadside Memorials vs. the American Atheists. I cited Lincolns’ House Divided speech. Built around Scripture found in Mark 3: 25 -see also Matthew 12:25; and Luke 11:17. By Court order a Wall dividing this Nation was erected back in 47 -yet there has not been a Lincoln elected to remedy that destructive and failed policy that cannot remedy the agitation caused by a nation half free and half slave.Oh we are more civilized/more humane today we chose men for our leaders who do not rule in fear of God.. . and we called it progress.But Scripture is True.The only way to save the United States is if we can TEAR DOWN THAT WALL.This travesty of justice has not ended it at all.
Report Post »Patriot Rider
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 8:39amWhat a vast majority of people fail to realize is the FACT that there is nothing in the Constitution stating the separation of church and state. So all the atheists arguments are bogus, period!!!!!
Report Post »wildbill_b
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 9:28am@PONTIAC “We cannot have one courthouse displaying the commandments without allowing another to display quran passages. It is better to be void of these things on government land than to try to be all inclusive which is exactly what you got going on in this case.”
First off, you can not seem to grasp the concept of “Congress may make no law”. This clearly limits the restriction on “CONGRESS” and has no effect on the “States of the Union”. To claim otherwise, would be absurd and display a child like level of reading comprehension. Secondly, the Declaration must be read in CONJUNCTION WITH the Constitution. The Declaration uses the terms “Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them”. Notice that God is acknowledged as the God of Nature, indicating that all that exists is by a single hand. The Constitution is signed “in the Year of our Lord” indicating the principle that the Constitution was founded on religious belief and a hope that the people would remain virtuous. The States are free to make anything they want the official religion of the state. There is not such thing as “separation” as these people argue. The courts of law, by disregarding the Constitution, render void judgements on the matter. Anyone who believes that the courts created by the constitution can arbitrarily alter it on a whim are insane.
Report Post »capitalismrocks
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 11:02amYOU SIR ARE CORRECT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
States are no beholden to such restrictions whatsoever, this was Federal Level… Seems Citizens United as well as others conveniently continue to omit, ignore or just outright overlook such key text, because… well, it tears their case down completely…
Report Post »Servant Of YHVH
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 11:34amAnother county that is getting on it’s knees before these whack jobs falsely promoting the pretense and lie that the Founding Fathers wanted separation of church and state.
Report Post »Komponist-ZAH
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 2:23pm“The Declaration of Independence is just that, a declaration of independence. If you want to make a case about god and the Declaration of Independence then do so with King George the Third. We’re discussing law, which cannot give preferential treatment to any religion.”
Wrong on both counts. Firstly, since it was adopted and ratified by the 13 colonies, the Declaration is as much the law of the land as the Constitution is (the Supreme Court has said so in the past). Secondly, “law” in general can give preferential treatment to anyone it wants to; the question is not can it, but should it. That last clause then should be “which should not give preferential treatment to any religion.”, and, then, in theory, you would be correct…except: The Ten Commandments don’t just belong to any religion, they belong to at least two, and therefore no one religion is being given preferential treatment. (And the same with “God”; even in polytheistic religions a principal or chief deity–e.g., Zeus/Jupiter–may be referred to as “God”.)
But “preferential treatment” is not prohibited by the First Amendment, only the establishment of an official state religion, and that it denies only to Congress, not to state or local governments (or, for that matter, not even to the other branches of the Federal Gov’t).
Report Post »WeDontNeedNoSteenkinBadges04
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 6:44pm“…government should not be promoting a religion…”
The Laws of God, from which the laws of man are derived, are no more “a religion” than stopping at a traffic light.
“In addition to this inclusion, the local government will also pay $75,000 to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, for fees incurred during the legal battle.”
“Americans United for Separation of Church and State”. I wonder if they’re related to “Freedom From Religion Foundation”? (Yeah, you know they are.)
“NATIONAL DAY OF PRAYER Now Under Attack In AMERICA! ** Mike Huckabee Exposes THE GOD HATERS!!”
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrDefIuwZEo
American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 2:35pm@HKS and what happens if Islam begins to be the dominate religion, will you still be in favor of allow the majority treat the minority like crap?
I swear, most of you are so self centered and short sighted. As an Agnostic, I believe in keeping Government neutral. Is it my fault that neutrality appears to favor Atheist and Agnostics? If you allow Government the ability to impose religion or religious images of the majority, what‘s to guarantee that when we’re old or dead, that our children or our children’s children, won’t become the minorities to Islam? America is about freedom, freedom must be neutral to allow EVERYONE the opportunity to be free. Freedom is NOT selective and should not select ANYTHING that favors one group over another, regardless of who is in the majority.
A REPUBLIC, govern by law (Constitution) to protect the minority from the overwhelming majority. Neutrality is the key to the success of our freedom and for the future of America. You may only care about the here and now, but I do care about what I will leave for my children and my future grandchildren. It’s unfortunate that most of you do not.
Report Post »LibertarianForLife
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 4:00pmWhy can you people not keep your trash beliefs to yourself? Its bad enough that they are the epitome of illogical, yet you still wish to shove them down peoples’ throats. This is a republic, and you are infringing upon every non christians rights, KEEP YOUR IMAGINARY FRIENDS TO YOURSELF.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 5:41pm@American Soldier (Separated) THAT’S THE POINT. It was the dominant religion present in our culture, people and Government which allowed the most religious freedom and tolerance to ever exist in one Nation. It was not the Muslims, Jews or Buddhists. It was Christian principles that paved the way for the most prosperous and freest society to ever exist on earth.
Who’s short sighted? The atheists and leftists who look only to these past 50 years to “prove” their theory that this is not a Christian Nation. In these past 50 years we have had the most liberal Government and Progressive court system ever allowed, all pursuing communism through socialism, with the effect to eliminate the highest Authority, God, and replace his Sovereignty with the absolutist State. This Government, in its true history (not these past 50 years wherein our Constitution and form of Government has completely evolved and morphed to an unknown and complex system), has never been Neutral in regarding its foundation and heritage. Great Governor of the World, Divine Providence, Creator, Nature’s God, In the Year of our Lord, Supreme Judge of the World, Blessings of Liberty, self evident Truths, all men are created equal, So help me God, etc. This has always been a Nation and people that has recognized the Sovereignty of a higher Authority, and has always sought its protection and blessing. It is Christianity which advocates treating everyone equal and to love your neighbor as yourself.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 5:45pm@LibertarianForLife I don’t believe in imaginary friends. I don’t believe in a sky god either. I do not worship the stars, moon or planets. I believe in the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob. He does not exist in my head alone. This God has been testified on by numerous witnesses, whose accounts of his actions and words have been most sacredly passed down by numerous generations with exact precision and the most care for preservation. To believe this God is a myth is to deny and ignore World history and his manifest influence in our society and daily life. His obvious influence in our Western Civilization is most unique in the World and cannot be ignored, as it has all been recorded and readily distributed. How his depositions and revelations have been adapted and applied by numerous peoples and nations, may be debated, but his manifest presence in the destiny of Nations cannot, as it is also most related and relevant to various issues we face today.
The Holy Bible has been the best selling book in the entire history of printing for a reason. And its not because they thought it to be false. You can’t ignore history and not accept the impact that the Bible has had in our World, especially in Western Civilization. Whether good or bad, that’s up for debate. But I won’t get too much into this theological debate here, in this improper forum without an adequate system to post extensive research. I’ll leave that topic at that.
Report Post »American Drywaller
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 8:15am@Pontiac
Report Post »In the state of nature, every man has a right
to think and act according to the dictates
of his own mind, which in that state,
are subject to no other control
and can be commanded by no other power than the laws and ordinances
of the great Creator of all things…
He therefore is the truest friend to the
Liberty of his country who tries most to promote its virtue…
The sum of all is, if we would most truly enjoy
this gift of Heaven,
let us become a virtuous people.…Samuel Adams
The Ten Commandments were the basis for our laws, all you have to do is be a little versed in their letters and discussions to know the truth.
Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 12:54pm@colt1860
“Our Government was not founded by Muslims, it was founded by Protestant Christians, Western Europeans.”
Oh how did I not foresee this argument coming! Woe is me!
So this gives “Christians” special rights & privileges?
They can do things on public lands no one else can?
“in the year of our Lord”
That expression, which was common at the time, was inserted to distinguish which ‘calendar’ was being used. Only knuckle draggers would claim christians have special privileges bestowed upon them because of a calendar clarification.
@American Drywaller
“The Ten Commandments were the basis for our laws,”
A history of human interactions is the basis for our laws which was also the basis for the Ten Commandments because it was man that made them. Laws against pedophilia did not come from the bible or Ten Commandments. If they had they took their damn time implementing them. Same goes for slavery.
-To speak for god is to speak as god.-
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:05pm@Pontiac Once again, you provide no historical evidence for your reasoning.
Report Post »bruce_baker
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:07pmYour arguments, while all true, are based on facts and reason. They carry no weight against an appeal to emotion, based on lies, and directed toward the ignorant via the mass media. What chance did the articulate Jews have against the propaganda machine of the Nazis? America is long past the point where right and wrong matter. We only care about what is popular. BTW, who won ‘Dancing With the Stars’?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:26pmMaryland’s 1776 Declaration of Rights says:
XXXV. That no other test or qualification ought to be required, on admission to any office of trust or profit, than such oath of support and fidelity to this State, and such oath of office, as shall be directed by this Convention, or the Legislature of this State, and a declaration of a belief in the Christian religion.
XXXVI. That the manner of administering an oath to any person, ought to be such, as those of the religious persuasion, profession, or denomination, of which such person is one, generally esteem the most effectual confirmation, by the attestation of the Divine Being. And that the people called Quakers, those called Dunkers, and those called Menonists, holding it unlawful to take an oath on any occasion, ought to be allowed to make their solemn affirmation, in the manner that Quakers have been heretofore allowed to affirm; and to be of the same avail as an oath, in all such cases, as the affirmation of Quakers hath been allowed and accepted within this State, instead of an oath. And further, on such affirmation, warrants to search for stolen goods, or for the apprehension or commitment of offenders, ought to be granted, or security for the peace awarded, and Quakers, Dunkers or Menonists ought also, on their solemn affirmation as aforesaid, to be admitted as witnesses, in all criminal cases not capital.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:27pmVirginia’s 1776 Declaration of Rights says:
SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:35pm“…and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity…”
“When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good.” – James Monroe, fifth President of the United States
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:36pmRead every State’s Preamble to their Constitution. They all mention a higher Authority. My state, Maryland, has the following, since 1851:
“We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty, and taking into our serious consideration the best means of establishing a good Constitution in this State for the sure foundation and more permanent security thereof, declare:”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:46pmIn 1854 the House Judiciary Committee said, “in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity…That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”
“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.” – Northwest Ordinance 1789
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:50pm@colt1860 Once again, you change the argument to something that is not being argued.
Founders, deist, christians, big whoop. Not the argument
Equal protection, equal voice, equality. THE ARGUMENT.
Either make room in the court house for thousands of religious displays or get yours out!
Stop trying to dance around the issue which is that you “think” your religion has precedence over others.
IT DOES NOT.
http://www.usconstitution.net/constnot.html
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 3:18pm@Pontiac Once again, you dismiss all historical evidence in which CHRISTIANITY did have precedence over the expression of faith or religion in the public square. We were undeniably a Christian nation and unabashedly did express our faith and Christian religion in PUBLIC and GOVERNMENT. You keep dancing around this main point. Your reasoning has no historical backing or precedence in these united States of America. Your reasoning or arguments are ALL based on MODERN secular thought and a modern progressive Court system supported by a very liberal and corrupt Government today. You’re trying to revise and ignore history to make your reasoning acceptable and appealing. Your hate for Christianity and desire to change our American heritage into some neutral, humanist, distorted, atheist, communist, amoral, unfounded, new thinking, modernized, evolving constitution, liberal, and progressive Government is ridiculous and desperate at best.
“And Whereas it hath pleased the Great Governor of the World to incline the hearts of the legislatures we respectively represent in Congress, to approve of, and to authorize us to ratify the said articles of confederation and perpetual union… In Witness whereof we have hereunto set our hands in Congress. Done at Philadelphia in the State of Pennsylvania the ninth Day of July in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven Hundred and Seventy-eight, and in the Third Year of the independence of America.” Articles of Confederation
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 3:36pm@Pontiac You’re reasoning is based on the very liberal notion that secularism, humanism, and diversity are the best methods to Govern society. Which all have an effect to destroy this great Nation and its heritage and institutions. You are promoting multiculturalism which is a front for the Progressives and Communists who want to eliminate all Western traditions and customs, which are mostly and mainly based on Christianity, and founded or passed down by White European Christians. Multiculturalism wants to corrupt our ancient Rule of Law, mostly based on Anglo-saxon laws (common law, Magna Carta, English bill of Rights, etc.) and go against anything Western and European in heritage. They want to destroy this Nation’s history and people, and adopt and apply a new system of Governance all leading to some new socialist worldly government.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 4:22pm“CHRISTIANITY did have precedence over the expression of faith or religion in the public square.”
“Did have” does not equate to an exclusive rights which you are espousing. Apparently you did not understand the context. You express your faith in public, Islam, satanist, & atheist equally express their faith in public. That is equal protection under the law. Tit for tat.
“Your reasoning has no historical backing or precedence in these united States of America. ”
You aren’t pointing to my reasons, you are ignoring them and pulling unrelated arguments out of thin air…
“our reasoning or arguments are ALL based on MODERN secular thought”
My reasoning is based on the rule of law and the equal execution thereof.
“Your hate for Christianity and desire to change our American heritage into some neutral”
Hate christianity? There you go again putting words in my mouth. I despise ALL religious zealots that use government shove their irate beliefs down the throats of others at every opportunity.
“Articles of Confederation”
Quote quote quote. What do the defunct Articles of Confederation have to do with this? Do you or do you not have the means to speak for yourself? I guess you‘re trying to make another argument for something I’m not arguing…
“You are promoting multiculturalism”
Report Post »No, I am promoting the absence of any cultures influence through public displays on public land.
You take me for a liberal, fine… I take you for a fool.
colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 5:24pm“Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.” – James Madison
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 5:36pmThis has always been a Nation and people that has recognized the Sovereignty of a higher Authority, and has always sought its protection and blessing. It is the principles of Christianity which advocates treating everyone equal and to love your neighbor as yourself. Go to Communist China or any Arab or African Muslim Nation to see the opposite.
Your argument of equal protection, and the sort, all have their origins from a CHRISTIAN NATION. Which is why I keep referring to that. To depart from this is to destroy our form of Government and allow the intrusion of alien and foreign laws and customs that will only work to overturn our Society to one in which it was never intended to be. Your enjoyment of all these Rights and Liberties and Rule of Law was established by a protestant CHRISTIAN NATION. To believe that a secular world and amoral society was able to conceive the greatest, most prosperous and free society and Nation in this world is to deny all historical evidence that proves the opposite. It was not an atheist or humanist Nation or people that established the formation of this Government and its organic laws. You can’t deny the foundation of this Nation and at the same time believe it will be able to survive and stand as you know it.
“Do not separate text from historical background. If you do, you will have perverted and subverted the Constitution, which can only end in a distorted, bastardized form of illegitimate government.” – James Madison
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 5:39pm“While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. OUR CONSTITUTION WAS MADE ONLY FOR A MORAL AND RELIGIOUS PEOPLE. IT IS WHOLLY INADEQUATE TO THE GOVERNMENT OF ANY OTHER. Oaths in this country are as yet universally considered as sacred obligations. That which you have taken, and so solemnly repeated on that venerable ground, is an ample pledge of your sincerity and devotion to your country and its government.” John Adams
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 5:40pmWashington’s 1796 Farewell Address, written by Alexander Hamilton and revised by himself.
“Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric?”
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 5:49pm“My reasoning is based on the rule of law and the equal execution thereof. ”
And my point is that Our rule of law and the equal execution thereof is all based on a Government formed by a Protestant Christian people. The existence and advancement of Our rule of law and the equal execution thereof has never existed in this World prior to our founding. Our Nation is unique and exceptional in this world because of its foundation by a religious people. You have yet to provide any historical evidence to prove otherwise. If you want to throw out our Christian history and extinguish all reference and mention of it in the public square you will aid in its destruction and fundamental change to a Communist form of Government, which denies a higher Authority and believes the State know what’s best for you and me.
As Adams once said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”.
I‘m not saying that you’re a liberal, but that you’re adhering to all their newly conceived modern notions which work to revise history for their own benefit and interest at the expense of our time honored and long standing American heritage.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 6:06pm@Pontiac “No, I am promoting the absence of any cultures influence through public displays on public land.”
Which is unfounded in this Nation. You have yet to provide any historical facts to prove this notion of yours that our Government intended (when originally formed) to be able to prohibit any cultures influence through public displays on public land. Look at the outside of the Supreme Court, on its entrance doors and above the seats of the Justices. They all have the Ten Commandments displayed. Heck, we have had Church services in our Congress since the very earliest of Times. Our Congress has begun with a prayer since its very beginning. Our Presidents have declared “So help me God” in conjunction with their Constitutional Oaths since the first President. Religious expression in public and Government IS part of our American culture.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 6:18pmcolt 1886 5:24pm
colt 1886 5:36pm
[I start my reply.]
colt 1886 5:39pm
colt 1886 5:40pm
colt 1886 5:49pm
colt 1886 6:06pm
[I finished my reply...]
FFS… SIX post since I last replied. I am not reading the last four. You are a spastic little zealot that doesn‘t know when he’s lost the argument. Go take a hike.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 6:27pm@Pontiac You’re done because you only have personal opinions and special agendas to follow that have no historical backing or any significant support in the founding of this Nation. You have no evidence or facts to prove your arguments.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 6:51pm@colt1860
“You’re done because”
I’m not done you egotistical twit, the blaze ate my post placed just before that and it has ate it 3 times since!
#comment-2254648 first
Report Post »#comment-2254676 retry
#comment-2254707 retry
THEY NEVER SHOWED!
Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 7:23pm@colt1860
When you find proof James Madison said that, be sure to let me and a bunch of scholars know. Because there is no evidence those were ever his words.
“Go to Communist China or any Arab or African Muslim Nation to see the opposite.”
When you have no problem with the atheist displaying his chart then you can lecture me about religious oppression and equality.
[reply reduced because it will probably fail again...]
Report Post »[wth, it ended up on the 4th page]
[7th attempt at least...]
American Drywaller
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 8:55pm“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind of self-government; upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God”.-James Madison
Report Post »Sorry, but the idea that the ten commandments were not the basis of our law is ignorant of our history at best, at worst willfully ignorant.
Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 10:01pmhttp://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/americanlaw_2.htm
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 11:56pm@American Drywaller
That quote is “unconfirmed” by wallbuilders and the only known source of that quote is David Barton. The very same site that touts David Barton in their speakers bio’s. David Barton has yet to provide a source for that quote, as well as others.
http://www.wallbuilders.com/libissuesarticles.asp?id=126
————————————————————–
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”
–Treaty of Tripoli – Article 11 – ratified by the United States on June 10, 1797
It helps to fully source your quotes instead of just spouting things off.
Report Post »SaraD
Posted on November 16, 2011 at 12:11amThere is no established religion. I am glad he fought it, and it is known that the seperation of church and state stand.
Report Post »“The Government of the United States is not in any sense founded upon the Christian Religion.” 1797 the treaty of Tripoli, signed by President Washington, and approved by the Senate of the United States
A fair number weren’t even Christian.
Pontiac
Posted on November 16, 2011 at 10:44am@SaraD
Actually the treaty had began under Washington but it was signed by Adams by the time it was completed.
“known that the seperation of church and state stand.”
Report Post »This is still a misstatement. The state cannot run the church but the church can ‘influence’ the state. Which means any and every crazy religion has equal ability to influence the state. However the ability to install their propaganda on public land, I believe, is not a right nor a privilege.
phillipwgirard
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:48pmsickening
Report Post »garylee123
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:43pmIt’s freedom OF religion, not freedom FROM religion.
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:12pmOnly if your a Muslim the goverment will go along with it and force people to let you have your way
Report Post »Columbobear
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:16pmSeperation of Church and State = Freedom from religion. Not a hard concept to grasp. But I understand I live in a country full of idiots. But I choose to tolerate them. My taxes pay for the same state building your taxes pay for. Therefore why do I have to see your believes when I walk into one of my state buildings? Granted I am a Christian. But it bothers me that we still are having this discussion. I bet if you asked God he wouldn’t want any part of our corrupt government. The only things that should be displayed in our government buildings are the heros of our GREAT COUNTRY (well atleast I still think its great) and the law! Please people stop being ignorant and be what an American is suppose to be (hardworking, morally strong, intellegent leaders, and free)! There are more important things to focus on than this… like the budget, jobs, education, corruption, etc.
Report Post »…Now lets hear what the crazy god freaks have to say… I hope you have your billboard sign on and your mega-phone ready… Now push your religion onto other people! Please I would love to hear how I am going to spend the after life burning! …My God is all forgiving by the way! MAN RULES THE WORLD. GOD RULES THE AFTER LIFE.
kmichaels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:44pm[Columbobear
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:16pm
Seperation of Church and State = Freedom from religion.]
Columbobear = dumbarse troll
The problem, dimwit, is that there is no mention of separation of church and state in the US constitution. However, the KKK did have a required oath of “separation of church and state” and I suspect you were foolish enough to accept their requirement hook line and sinker.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 8:47pmColumbob…. You, sir, are a liar. You are not a Christian. ….. godfreaks?….. really? You need to read the truth about the founding of our Country. All of our laws are Biblicaly based. God bless you.
Report Post »render1960
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:42pmWere do you think we get our moral laws from, I,am sick and tired of people trying to take god out of
Report Post »our country, all of our law come from our understanding of god laws. what do you think would happen
if we disregarded thies laws?
jb.kibs
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:48pmexactly what they want… anarchy…
Report Post »Lotus4115
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:51pmWhere do you see god. God is only in the mind of the believer. Think hard about it and you will find that this is true.
Report Post »John 336
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:25pmLOTUS4115 – God is all around you my friend. Romans 1 makes it clear … “Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:”
For a person to look at creation and then say “where is God” demonstrates a willfully hardened, rebellious and unthankful heart. Might I kindly suggest that you take your own advice and search for God in His creation. Look for God in the beauty of a setting sun. Look for God in the miracle of a baby being born. Look for God in a delicate and unique snowflake. Look for God in the unbelievable design of the human body. God is evident … you just have to look.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
James 4:8
Report Post »Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you.
banjarmon
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 11:35pmThere are MORE believers than non-believers….you non-believers SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!!!!!
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 2:40pmThere were more people willing to accept British rule then to stand up and fight tyranny. Should our founding fathers have just sat down and shut up?
We are a REPUBLIC, but it looks like we weren’t able to keep it. Sorry Mr. Franklin, for failing you.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 12:57pm@banjarmon
“There are MORE believers than non-believers….you non-believers SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!!!!!”
There were more votes for Obama than McCain… I guess we should “sit down and shut up”……
Report Post »mcpbob
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:41pmSamuel Adams wrote a letter on October 4, 1790 to his cousin John Adams, who was vice president of the United States: “Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity and universal philanthropy, and in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country; of instructing them in the art of self-government… in short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system. Knowledge apart from God and His truth is little better than complete ignorance, because the most important aspect of education is the imbuing of moral principles. All education is religious – it imparts a basic set of principles and ideals, a worldview. How the youth are educated today will determine the course a nation takes in the future.”
Report Post »lodgerat
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 5:53pmThe progressives know what you say is true. That’s why they teach the Godless propaganda they do in schools today,
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 9:10pm@American Soldier (Separated) Too bad your reasoning is all based on a modern secular school of thought, modern liberal Government, and modern Progressive Court system. You have no historical evidence to back up your claims. Heck, our early Congress recommended the distribution of the Bible to our Public Schools and even favored the printing of a certain Bible.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 9:17pm*oops. Meant to post the above to another user.
Report Post »bruce_baker
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:21pm“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed…No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.” Noah Webster
What they teach in American schools today: Global Warming is gospel, the Gospel is a myth, and Big Government would be God’s gift to humanity if God existed.
The question for 2012 becomes, “Do you want your children to live in a communist country, or not?”
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:39pmThe ten commandments are a religious and have absolutely NOTHING to do with our U.S.
Constitution ans should NEVER be is displayed in public government buildings. Yes the Establishment and Free Exercise clause in the First Amendment to our U.S. Constituiion is intended to put a Separation between Church and State.
Right wing Christians do a great disservice to the free exercise of religious practice in this country when push their religion on us, as if it was an official state religion. They have become increasingly obnoxious on this subject and are a danger to our Democracy
Report Post »microace
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:48pmExplain how it means separation of Church and State. I don’t think you can, you talk big, but don’t know your history.
Report Post »UBETHECHANGE
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:49pmI bet your commandments to live by are Alinsky’s Rules for Radicals and the Communist Manifesto.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:11pmBernbart is a fool, a moron, a dimwit and more. But what he is not is a scholar on what is in the US constitution. There is one clause related to religion. It simply prohibits the federal congress from passing laws regarding the establishment of religion or laws that would prohibit the free exercise of religion.
Somehow idiot berbbart wants to extend what is actually in the US constitution to include even more. In his silly arsed tiny mind he insists that it means no government at any level should promote any religious idea in any way shape or form. He believes this to be true because he disagrees with religious thought and figures that by twisting the law hard enough he can have the government force you to believe things his way.
In short, he is an arse. A liberal arse with the general character and personality of an arse. It is what liberals are and will remain to be. They don’t appreciate freedom of speech and will lie their way into the court system in order to make their way the legal way for everyone.
Great thinkers liberals are not. Great big arses they are.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:27pmWashington’s 1789 Thanksgiving Day Proclamation:
WHEREAS it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favour; and Whereas both Houses of Congress have, by their joint committee, requested me “to recommend to the people of the United States a DAY OF PUBLICK THANSGIVING and PRAYER, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God, especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness:”
Continued…
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:28pm…Continued.
NOW THEREFORE, I do recommend and assign THURSDAY, the TWENTY-SIXTH DAY of NOVEMBER next, to be devoted by the people of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being who is the beneficent author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be; that we may then all unite in rendering unto Him our sincere and humble thanks for His kind care and protection of the people of this country previous to their becoming a nation; for the signal and manifold mercies and the favorable interpositions of His providence in the course and conclusion of the late war; for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty which we have since enjoyed;– for the peaceable and rational manner in which we have been enable to establish Constitutions of government for our sasety and happiness, and particularly the national one now lately instituted;– for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed, and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge;– and, in general, for all the great and various favours which He has been pleased to confer upon us.
And also, that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech Him to pardon our national and other transgressions;
Continued…
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:29pm…Continued.
– to enable us all, whether in publick or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually; to render our National Government a blessing to all the people by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed; to protect and guide all sovereigns and nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us); and to bless them with good governments, peace, and concord; to promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the increase of science among them and us; and, generally to grant unto all mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.
GIVEN under my hand, at the city of New-York, the third day of October, in the year of our Lord, one thousand seven hundred and eighty-nine.
(signed) G. Washington
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:34pmReligion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged. -Northwest Ordinance 1789
God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event. -Jefferson
When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good. -Monroe
It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here. -Henry
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:41pmWe have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God. -Madison
Religion is the basis and Foundation of Government. -Madison
We have all been encouraged to feel in the guardianship and guidance of that Almighty Being, whose power regulates the destiny of nations. -Madison
We, the People of the State of Maryland, grateful to Almighty God for our civil and religious liberty, and taking into our serious consideration the best means of establishing a good Constitution in this State for the sure foundation and more permanent security thereof, declare: -Const. Preamble
The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human nature. -J Adams
The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.” JQ Adams
Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity religion and morality are indispensable supports. -Washington
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:47pmGod and America http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/america.html
The longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth: ‘that God governs in the affairs of men.’ And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? -Franklin
Our ancestors established their system of government on morality and religious sentiment. Moral habits, they believed, cannot safely be entrusted on any other foundation than religious principle, not any government secure which is not supported by moral habits…. Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens. -Daniel Webster
The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scripture ought to form the basis of all our civil constitutions and laws. All the miseries and evil men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery, and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible. -Noah Webster
There is not a truth to be gathered form history more certain, or more momentous, than this: that civil liberty cannot long be separated from religious liberty without danger, and ultimately without destruction to both. Wherever religious liberty exists, it will, first or last, bring in and establish political liberty. -Joseph Story, Congressman and Supreme Court Justice
Report Post »spirited
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:48pmGeorge Washington: What a thinking, feeling, humble and conscientious man…who walked the walk.
>Amen
Report Post »wbedding
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:48pmwow, bernbart. i would say you cut and pasted those comments from a liberal media release, but there were way too many spelling and grammatical errors. makes it worse.
what you people fail to include in your argument is that the second part of the First Amendment also says that there shall be no law abridging the exercise there of. how do you explain this? how do you explain that it has been only in the last 50 years that this has become an issue while for the first over 150 it was not? it was embraced by every facet of government and upheld. it wasn’t until you liberals and progressives gained a hold on the court system that is became an issue.
so what’s worse – me exercising my freedom of religion or your destructive assault on the Constitution and the freedoms and liberties contained with it?
by the way – when a word you type is underlined in red, it means you have spelled it incorrectly. free spell check is offered, which i would guess you love free things – especially from the government.
Report Post »NOBAMA201258
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:51pmHey bernbart,do you see one mention of Jesus Christ in the Ten Commandments?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:57pmHuman law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority for that law which is divine…far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. Indeed, these two sciences run into each other. – James Wilson (signatory of the Constitution)
(T)he propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained – Washington
The principals of all genuine liberty, and of wise laws and administrations, are to be drawn from the Bible and sustained by its authority. The man, therefore, who weakens or who destroys the divine authority of that Book may be accessory to all the public disorders which society is doomed to suffer. -Webster 1832
That book [the Bible], sir, is the rock on which our republic rests. -Jackson
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. -Washington
Report Post »Itchee Dryback
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:57pmGibberish.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:25pmThe reason Jefferson mentioned the need for Separation of Church and State, was because many established Religions (Episcopalians, Methodists, Quakers, etc.) feared that the newly created federal Government would dictate and enact National creeds or doctrines for their Congregations, very much resembling Great Britain and its Church of England. Jefferson and many Clergymen further feared an ecclesiastical dictatorship, very much like that of the Holy Roman Empire, wherein Religious liberty was restricted, and Religion in general was harshly governed by the State.
I believe that we, as a Nation of free Citizens, should seek the righteous precepts of Heaven, that the blessings of civil and religious liberty may ever be enjoyed. I believe that it is from our Creator that our Rights are endowed, and that under this basis and foundation must Government be instituted. Our Rights do not come from Government, but are natural. A belief otherwise, accepts that the State is the highest Power and accountable to none, as it alone has reign over the people.
I believe that Government should not be administered by Religion (Churches and religious institutions) and that Religion (however practiced) should not be regulated by Government. Rather, that State officials (elected Citizens) should be inspired and guided through Religion and morality, to be better able to govern and lead a free people, not to rule over them but to humbly serve them, under Just and enumerated Powers.
Report Post »Alborn49
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:31pmYou really should learn some history. You do not know of which you speak.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 6:56pmWhen these united States of America declared their separation from Great Britain, they proclaimed to the world the power to freely Govern themselves, independent of all foreign powers and forces, save by the judgement of God, whom they appealed to as the highest authority.
Our blessings of Liberty come only from one source, our Creator, the Grand Architect of the Universe. He alone, as Supreme Judge of the World, decides the destiny of Nations.
We must either govern ourselves through the Ten Commandments given to Moses by God, or have Man govern us through the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto.
Communism must deny the existence of a “higher authority” (or abstract external Power) in order to justify a secular all powerful self appointed central Government as the highest and only authority best suited for Mankind. No morals, no standards and no unalienable Rights but what the State dictates is best for you and me.
To deny the true source of our being and origin of our Laws, reject the moral standards inherit within the conscience of Man (imbedded to justly govern himself independently), and corrupt our natural equality among men to distort equal justice before the Law, is to tolerate the rigorous iron hand of cruel and wicked Men, accept an ever expanding all knowing hell bent Nanny and Welfare State, and adopt a tyrannical abhorrent self righteous body of Men to rule over our us, robbing us of our Rights and granting us privileges and licenses in exch
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 7:33pm*and adopt a tyrannical abhorrent self righteous body of Men to rule over us, robbing us of our Rights and granting us privileges and licenses in exchange.
Report Post »TheVoice1
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 7:48pmcolt1860
I so love it when the facts are laid out so beautifully as you have. Well done!
It’s the facts that are so confusing to those who blow smoke statements….
Again, I love the info. Stand strong America Truth has no agenda!!!
And to each and every veteran and active military….from all of our hearts on this Veterans Day
God Bless you and yours…We thank you ! Stand Strong America
Report Post »spotster
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 8:32pmhey stuoid its a republic. typical moron lib
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 8:46pm@TheVoice1 Thanks. I just came from a rally to Restore our Constitutional Republic, held in DC. It was directed by VeteranDefenders.org and PatriotsUnion.org It has motivated me to unabashedly defend this Country and our Christian Nation. It was a wonderful even present with many veterans and great speakers. I’m glad and grateful I was able to attend. May God bless our Veterans. And may we never forget their service in protecting and defending this great Nation.
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 8:09amBernbart , In my opinion those IGNORANT of History -and especially that of our Constitution ought NOT
Report Post »be making manifest their IGNORANCE. Was at the Constitutional Convention June 28 ,1787 Old Ben
Franklin gave a speech citing no less than a half dozen Bible based examples of the Supreme Authority
justifying his proposal they Pray-as they had when they recognized the danger. I suggest you study
Wm J.Federer – America’s God and Country :Encyclopedia of Quotations p.150-154 Notes 155-169
And if you learn a little history you might reconsider your blast of ignorance.
wildbill_b
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 9:41am@Bernbart’s “are a danger to our Democracy”
This is the problem. This single words used so egregiously is the root of the problem. Why do “government,I.E., public schools teach children we are a democracy? They show the Constitution that says we are a “republic” in Art. 4:4. The Pledge of Allegiance tells us we are a “Republic” I.E., “and to the Republic for which it stands”. The founders were QUITE clear a “Democracy” was NOT acceptable nor desired. Yet today, in the media, in schools, in life in general, all the “educated” people leave us awash in reference to “democracy” until it is just blindly accepted despite proof the contrary right in front you, which you are conditioned to ignore and follow the lemming herd.
Report Post »SeanKD
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 12:44pmYou need some help in basic reading comprehension skills. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; ” This means that Congress is forbidden from making any law with regard to establishing a compulsory STATE religion (such as The Church of ENGLAND) to which all must belong. It also means that Congress shall not make any law prohibiting the FREE EXERCISE of religion. If the people want to post the Ten Commandments in a courthouse they have every right to do so and Congress has no authority to say otherwise. Furthermore, since the Legislature is forbidden from enacting any law concerning these matters, the Judiciary has no authority to rule on them – as the purpose of the Judiciary is to determine the constitutionality of laws passed by Congress. No law means there is nothing for the Judiciary to rule upon. The whole notion of a “separation of Church and State” arose from taking a line out of context from a letter Jefferson wrote to members of a particular denomination in which he reassured them that the government could not establish a compulsory state religion. To say that Congress or the Judiciary have the right to run religion out of the public square is a gross perversion of the Constitution and our founding principles.
Report Post »lodgerat
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 5:35pmDid you even get out of the second grade? I’m suprised you can understand Karl Marx. By the way you PC has spell check
Report Post »tothestars2
Posted on November 12, 2011 at 6:34pm“Republic”
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 2:51pm“…respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…”
Call it a religion or not, it’s an established group of Americans that are Atheist and Agnostics. Government must respect that fact. Respect is shown by not favoring one over another. You are free to exercise any religion you want, in the comfort of your private property.
Atheists and Agnostics pay taxes too, and to use tax dollars to display Christian symbols on Government buildings is not acceptable.
To give us the freedom to choose what religion we participate in, it includes the ability to choose not to participate in religion.
It‘s actually quiet common sense if you weren’t biased.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 9:19pm@American Soldier (Separated) It’s too bad your reasoning is all based on a modern secular school of thought, modern liberal Government, and modern Progressive Court system. You have no historical evidence to back up your claims. Heck, our early Congress recommended the distribution of the Bible to our Public Schools and even favored the printing of a certain Bible.
Report Post »mrnils
Posted on November 14, 2011 at 2:42pmObnoxious ! Talk about Ignorance. You have not seen nothing yet. The Muslims are the fastest growing people and religion in the USA and the world ! period ! and they WILL! force you to comply. They already have basic Sharia laws being set up in many US cities as well as Italy, France etc. Look it up. They are voting in as many of their people into Government positions as possible. Don’t think its possible ? i was borne in Miami and grew up there and there was all Gringos in the Government positions then, now! all Latin holding Government positions. Believe me, their will come a day when you will wish the Christians were in control. You may want religion out of Government or even the world, but its not happening my friends. It is and will always will be a war of religions, and you are on the loosing side. Mark my words, in 30 years your grandchildren will be learning the Koran or else. Then will see who is Obnoxious
Report Post »ALPHA18BRAVO
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:37pmThe separation of church and state does not apply to this. It doesn’t apply to any of the calls to remove “God” from our government buildings. The government does not force anyone to practice a religion. Promoting religion? Maybe. Having the ten commandments at courthouses does not exactly promote religion. It is a set of rules that many people should follow regardless of your religion. They are promoting those “rules” because they are good rules to live by, not because they want people to join their religion. If some individual wants to post something from their religion that makes sense, I have no problem with it.
Report Post »I have a problem with the constant calls to remove God from government. Despite a small group of individuals, nobody has a problem with “in God we trust” or any other phrase. Perhaps, if it said “in Jesus we trust” or in “mother earth we trust” I could see someone having a problem with it.
FaithfulFriend
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:36pmNo doubt Ralph’s dog accepts God as God and yet knows nothing of religion.
God is not a religion. God provides Ralph with his Mercy. Hope Ralph uses that Mercy to figure it out before his time runs out.
Report Post »Scruff
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:45pmNo doubt Ralph’s dog accepts just about everything given to him. What a pig!
Report Post »jkruy
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:36pmWhat does he gain by doing this? What sort of demonic drive exists in this man’s heart to go so far? Pray for his soul.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:33pmAnd God spoke all these words, saying: ‘I am the LORD your God…
ONE: ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.’
TWO: ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’
THREE: ‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.’
FOUR: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.’
FIVE: ‘Honor your father and your mother.’
SIX: ‘You shall not murder.’
SEVEN: ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’
NINE: ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.’
TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.’
Report Post »ALPHA18BRAVO
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:45pmGee, besides having “God” in the some of the rules, it seems as though there is nothing religious about these. If these people don’t believe in God, they can just ignore those rules. The government doesn’t enforce those rules anyway. If the government enforced those commandments, I could see why these individuals would have a problem.
Report Post »mcpbob
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:33pmAs members were signing the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams, the father of the Revolution, said, “We have this day restored the Sovereign to Whom all men ought to be obedient. He reigns in heaven and from the rising to the setting of the sun, let His kingdom come.” After the public reading of the Declaration of Independence, Samuel Adams noted, “The people, I am told, recognize the resolution as though it were a decree promulgated from heaven.”
Report Post »palerider54
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:32pmThe sad thing is that when this servant of Satan, meets his master, instead of being rewarded for serving Satan, he will be mocked and punished along with the rest of his subjects.
Report Post »Satan HATES mankind. He is JEALOUS of mankind. That is what caused his fall from heaven, he wants REVENGE. Satan knows the only way he can hurt GOD is to stop as many souls as he can from accepting Gods forgiveness and the SALVATION JESUS provided for us.
cessna152
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:40pmExactly… How do you “get to” a parent that does not seem to break? Go after their children.. that is was satan does.
Report Post »sissykatz
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:47pmThese kind of things just make me sick. I have no idea where this man
Report Post »is from originally but I will bet it is not from Tennessee. I can’t believe
people can move in from somewhere else and change what is history
and welcomed by the people that were born and raised there and wanted
it that way. Why didn’t he move to a country where things were as he
wanted. He just wanted to stir up some Stuff.
By the way he does not deserve that beautiful dog.
phillipwgirard
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:53pm@SISSYKATZ, Sissy, everybody in that world thinks and or believes it’s ALL ABOUT THEM, it’s truly sad
Report Post »In detroit
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:31pmLoser!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get a life , il bet you think your smart dont you Ralph , never met a Ralph I liked its an automatic hiny hole name
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:30pmFirst off, there is nothing about “Separation of Church and state” in the Constitution. Actually, the problem is when you have a GOVERNMENT that runs a religion. IE a Church run by the state. Having a plaque is a far cry from what you are doing. Actually, you are creating what you are against which brings me to my second point.
2nd point: Yeah, because Christianity is such a horrible thing you freaking dope. I guess we are to replace them with the religion of nothing? You know that is a belief as well, so we can’t have that. How about the religion of no religion? We can’t have that either…Government worshiping is a religion as is tearing down all of God’s laws and promises. Atheism is a religious system, so is Darwinism.
What are your beliefs sir? Because now your beliefs infringe on my beliefs. One step closer to complete Godlessness and moral breakdown… thank you sir.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:29pmAnother example of the revolt against God in this country.
Report Post »FEISTY
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:29pmI would have wiped my rear end with his lawsuit. Where in the Constitution does it say we can’t display the 10 Commandments? How is that a religious mandate? He’s totally wrong.
And, the Commandments are the basis for moral law, which gave birth to American law.
Report Post »bernbart
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:53pmRead the First Amendment to the to the Constitution. The founding fathers stated on many occasions that the Free Exercise an Establishment clquse in the first amendment was intended to put a WALL of Separation between Church and State. The U.S. Constitution forbids the establishment of any government religion. By placing the Christian version of the Ten Commandments in a public institution a you are promoting Christianity as an official state religion, which it is not. This is not just about atheists.
What if other religions tried to put their religous sybols in government buildings.. the Star of David, The Catholic Cruzifix, The Muslim Cresent, the Buddha,?all religious practice is protected by the U.s. Constittution, but not one is recognized as an official national religion.
Report Post »kmichaels
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 5:22pm[bernbart
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:53pm
Read the First Amendment to the to the Constitution.]
I have many times. Apparently however you have not, since you think something is said there that obviously was never said Care to actually debate the actually words found in the clause little boy? Because what you think must be in there is not there, never was there and never will be there.
You’re a demonstrable fool with no knowledge of reality, history and most defintely no knowledge of what is actually written there.
[The founding fathers stated on many occasions that the Free Exercise an Establishment clquse in the first amendment was intended to put a WALL of Separation between Church and State.]
Actually, they did not. You are a fool in thinking so. Your claims are not backed up by fact.
[The U.S. Constitution forbids the establishment of any government religion.]
Actually, it does not. Apparently you were too damned lazy to actually read it. It prohibits federal congress from establishing a federal religion. FEDERAL, you clueless dope.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 7:53pm@bernbart There was only one religion practiced by 98% of the population during our founding.
John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court and one of the three men most responsible for the writing of the Constitution declared: Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is their duty-as well as privilege and interest- of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.
In 1854 the House Judiciary Committee said: in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity…That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.
In 1892 the S. Court stated: No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation, State or national, because this is a religious people … This is a Christian nation. There is no dissonance in these declarations. There is a universal language pervading them all, having one meaning; they affirm and reaffirm that this is a religious nation. These are not individual sayings, declarations of private persons: they are organic [legal, governmental] utterances; they speak the voice of the entire people. … These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation.
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 7:55pm@BERNBART THE VIRGINIA DECLARATION OF RIGHTS 1776:
SEC. 16. That religion, or the duty which we owe to our Creator, and the manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence; and therefore all men are equally entitled to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that it is the mutual duty of all to practice Christian forbearance, love, and charity toward each other.
Report Post »WillG
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:29pmWhat a gross misuse of the courts valuable time.
Report Post »smackdown33
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:28pmWhich one in the picture is Ralph Stewart, the one holding the leash, or the one at the end of the leash?
Report Post »I SPY
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:26pmDeath to all atheists.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:30pmAll of us are going to Die. It’s where we spend eternity(if you believe) that gives us life.Eternity in Hell or Eternity in Heaven. From the looks of it Ralph won’t be in Heaven.
Report Post »Dumbsht
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:26pmThe real judge has nothing to do with a local magistrate of group of such.
America’s downfall is simply that they no longer fear God, but rather make up ridiculous rules, subjective, and without ethics…….as if man knows more than God.
As a result, our children have no boundaries…..no grounding, so that they run a muck.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:25pmRectified? Hell it made it worse! Leave your lack of religion out of my face!
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:26pmAlso which one is Ralph in the picture?
Report Post »phillipwgirard
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:59pmDitto…
Report Post »WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:25pmWhat a loser!
Report Post »JimCDew
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:24pmSo the athiest gets his display and a disclaimer from the county. Pride goeth before the fall. Get ready for the coming revolt.
Report Post »bringiton
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:22pmJust another pos liberal.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:19pmHeathen!
Report Post »nolemming
Posted on November 11, 2011 at 4:35pmYou know it’s no skin off my a$$ if these “people” want to believe in nothing, that is their choice. But why do they always have to have “something” to show that they believe in “nothing”? What’s the point, besides “nothing”? I can just hear them now, “Well, Ralph, you sure showed them good, bully for your “something” about “nothing”! Woot!
Idiots!
Report Post »MartinBaker
Posted on November 13, 2011 at 11:51amHe doesn’t believe in “nothing”, he believes in “reality”, you believe in “fantasy”.
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