US

Meet the 17-Year-Old Fighting ‘Big Government’ and Traffic Cameras

Meet the 17 Year Old Fighting Big Government and Traffic CamerasOLYMPIA, Wash. (AP) — Josh Sutinen isn‘t old enough to vote and only got his driver’s license last month, but he’s already among the leaders in a growing national backlash against cameras that issue traffic tickets.

The 17-year-old has worked for most of this year – frequently on school nights – pushing an initiative to ban Longview’s new red-light and speed cameras. He’s now in the final stages of a signature-collection effort that has him fighting city council and asking fellow citizens to join his crusade.

“These cameras are really just another big government attack on our rights,” Sutinen said in an interview. “It’s just taxation through citation.”

Sutinen’s plan is one of four similar ballot proposals around Washington this year. Voters in more than a dozen cities nationwide have passed referendums banning the cameras while nine states now prohibit them.

Officials in Los Angeles, where a single ticket can cost hundreds of dollars, moved this week to end a camera program there. Opponents question whether the cameras actually improve safety, noting that many citations are issued to drivers who simply don’t fully stop as they take free right turns at red lights. They also believe governments are largely using the cameras as a revenue source.

Washington’s activists hope to repeat the local success that state initiative guru Tim Eyman had in his hometown of Mukilteo last year. A group in Bellingham turned in nearly 7,000 signatures this week, and a movement in Redmond is still collecting.

Some city leaders are fighting to save the programs: On Tuesday night, Monroe officials moved to block an initiative from the ballot after promoters got enough signatures validated.

The Longview plan led by Sutinen needs about 2,800 signatures and to win a legal battle against the city. Supporters have turned in 3,628 but believe they will need hundreds more in the coming weeks after officials finish sorting through which ones are valid.

Longview has about a dozen cameras covering three intersections and two school zones. Mayor Kurt Anagnostou said he is sensitive to the concerns about the cameras and initially opposed them himself – until he got feedback from the public about red-light runners and intersection accidents.

“I heard from enough citizens that we have a problem in Longview,” Anagnostou said. “They changed my opinion.”

The city began a one-year trial of the cameras this year, and Anagnostou said the program has made people more aware at intersections.

Sutinen is certainly aware. He avoids the traffic cameras at all costs, taking detours that extend his three-mile commute to five. Even before he had a driver’s license, Sutinen said he hated the idea of the cameras and sought help from Eyman, who provided the initiative’s wording.

Comparatively, local initiatives in Washington can be more challenging that statewide ones because they typically require activists to gather signatures equaling 15 percent of voters registered in the area during the previous election. Statewide initiatives require signatures totaling 8 percent of the number of people who voted for governor in the previous election.

Supporters believe the proposals in Longview, Monroe and Redmond would be the first local initiatives to reach the ballot in those cities.

Longview leaders are looking to block the proposal, contending that the issue is not subject to the initiative process. They have instead proposed that the public take an advisory vote on the matter.

The nine states that have banned red-light cameras are Arkansas, Maine, Mississippi, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New Hampshire, West Virginia and Wisconsin, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Arizona did not renew its speed enforcement camera program last year. Several other states have passed laws limiting the use of camera enforcement.

Sutinen’s father, Tim Sutinen, said his son approached him late last year asking if he wanted to sponsor an initiative on the street cameras. The older Sutinen declined, saying he didn’t have the time to pursue it.

So Josh Sutinen took it on himself.

Tim Sutinen said he was proud of his son for taking a stand but also felt sorry for him during the weeks he spent standing outside of stores in freezing, wet weather trying to gather signatures.

“It’s miserable, and there’s not much thanks for it,” Sutinen said. “But he did it. He has the tenacity and the perseverance to do it.”

The younger Sutinen said he hopes others will see that the initiatives are possible and consider additional ones in the future as a way to keep local government in check.

“I would love to have more of these,” Sutinen said. “It would be awesome.”

Comments (172)

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  • IVoteConservative
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:44am

    Proponents of these big brother camera conveniently ignore the fact they are lubing the slippery slope to loss of personal rights and freedom. Way to go Josh!!

    Report Post »  
  • gnat74
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:32am

    WRONG!! New Jersey has cameras!! One mall in Deptford made $650,000.00 in fines last year alone!

    Report Post »  
  • Jenny Lind
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:32am

    It really shows the power of one! We should all be doing something like he is. Good for you kid!

    Report Post »  
    • UlyssesP
      Posted on June 25, 2011 at 9:39am

      Poor kid. As soon as he reaches18 the local police are going to make his life hell. He thinks he is actually doing something. Wait until he makes a questionable move in traffic. They’ll pull him over, turn off their cameras, beat him to a pulp and plant a gun on him.
      Police Unions For Obama 2012.
      So long kid. Nice try.

      Report Post » UlyssesP  
  • NEOBIO
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:31am

    Great way to get your point to them I’m proud of you. My son would had taken the paint ball gun to it. I would be left paying the bill.

    Report Post »  
  • Mrtoohappy
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:31am

    In South Florida a lot drivers are winning in court. It seems that the still picture of the plate doesn’t show date and time as the video does. But in the video you can’t read the plate. Since they can’t put them together for date and time some are being thrown out of court.

    Report Post »  
  • dsm
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:27am

    There is still hope for America.

    Report Post »  
  • olddog
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:21am

    Great Story! Go Josh..

    ?/

    Report Post » olddog  
  • Your Name Here
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:20am

    When I was in São Paulo, Brazil they had cameras all over the place.
    Everyone knew where they were so they’d speed, slow down for the camera, then go back to speeding as soon as they’d passed the camera.
    They also have portable cameras that have a police officer watching it because people started taking them out with baseball bats.
    Again, everyone knows where the portable cameras are set up at and only slow down for the camera.

    On the funny side there was a song from a Canadion radio show, “Photo rsadar ruined my life. The girl in the picture wasn’t my wife.

    Report Post » Your Name Here  
  • hottips2011
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:20am

    Roll with it Josh, read this, it CAN be done!

    http://www.thestate.com/2011/06/18/1864560/bill-barring-mailed-speeding-tickets.html

    Report Post » hottips2011  
  • bhelmet
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:17am

    LOVE seeing our youth getting involved – we NEED more

    Report Post » bhelmet  
  • Master Sergeant Malone
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:12am

    I’m torn on this subject. In Denton Texas in one high traffic area where my business was located, I lost count of red light runners and what could have been without a doubt serious if not fatal injuries had there been a vehicle in the runner’s path. I’m in agreement, many if not most of these cameras are a cash cow for the money starved muncipalities installing them. But I also know regardless they have been responsible for many moronic runners stopping too. The biggest complaint at the time dealt with “invasion of privacy.” That’s hogwash. The cameras snapped pictures of the license plates of the runners and NOT of the drivers themselves! Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    Report Post »  
    • Utah_Carl
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:59am

      The government could put a “camera” in front of your house and watch the goin’s on? And you would say, GREAT!, at least the government is finally doing something to replace my personal responsibilities.

      Report Post »  
    • Tit of the Iceberg
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 9:08am

      I tink you ar same as that kid in the news – you are standingt up to say something against the herd.

      You are brave and good, master sergent Malone

      Report Post » MONICNE  
  • Inlandmar2
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:10am

    What really amazes me, is how much money is spent on the enforcement of stupid traffic laws. These stupid traffic laws only serve to divert law enforcement resources from fighting “real” crime.

    Report Post » Inlandmar2  
    • ecurbyy
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:23am

      But it’s so dangerous going after real criminals. There’s a lot more money in going after traffic violators.

      Report Post » ecurbyy  
  • michaelmoron
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:02am

    These Traffic lights cameras are just another shining example of liberals trying to be big brother, and to seize our hard earned cash for a minor technicality. Also, the RINO republicans like cameras because they are also socialists that are underlings for the New world order. The NWO loves to watch it’s “global citizens”.

    Report Post » michaelmoron  
  • frodis
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:56am

    If a human watches the film a see’s someone actually running a red light then send out a ticket but these right turn lane tickets are stupid. EVERYONE rolls at a right turn. Watch on your way to work today. You will see dozens of so called tickets on your way to and from work. Why not just put the monitor in our cars and send the government a report of our driving habits and tax us from there. I mean c’mon, that’s what they really want now. Total control. Pathetic.

    Report Post » frodis  
    • Thighmaster
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:04am

      Have you ever wondered what they do with the photos of “officials” cars when they trigger these cameras when they’re NOT responding to an emergency?

      Report Post » Thighmaster  
    • michaelmoron
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:09am

      have you not heard of their plans to tax us per mile? They would have to install monitors in every vehicle in the U.S. they are pushing for this. This makes no sense. I get taxed on my gas, which I can only travel so many miles per gallon. DUH !!!! This is about big brother (NWO) taking total control of us.
      Wake up people !!! They OWN our politicians, both the liberals and the “conservatives”.

      Report Post » michaelmoron  
  • Thighmaster
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:53am

    I listened to some radio hosts in Indianapolis one time that did a story on this and guess who does the studies on where and how many of thses cameras should go up? The company that sells the cameras of course….

    Report Post » Thighmaster  
  • kickagrandma
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:52am

    Good for you, young man!!!

    Love your shirt and would like one like it!

    Keep standing and fighting. You and young people like you are AMERICA’S bright future!!!

    GOD BLESS.

    Report Post »  
  • ares338
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:51am

    Homeland Security will probably arrest him.

    Report Post » ares338  
  • Lost In Space
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:49am

    Big brother is watching you. Every time i go through them cameras and im going to be close,just in case they do snap my picture, i always hang the bird out.

    Report Post »  
    • Your Name Here
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:25am

      Myth Busters did an episode on this.
      All the gizmos that are advertized as ways to block the picture from seeing your license plate are bogus.

      Report Post » Your Name Here  
  • thermonator
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:48am

    Around here people are catching on to these photo tickets. Unless you admit your guilt and sign the ticket you get in the mail or a police officer shows up at your door, you don’t have to pay this ticket. I don’t know what the law is or if it applies to all states, but here in Colorado these tickets are unenforceable unless you sign the ticket or a police officer presents the ticket in person.
    There is talk about removing these photo radar devices because they are actually losing money with them.

    Report Post » thermonator  
    • frankthekulak
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:00am

      Agreed. Colorado is a good example of pure revenue generation. Even if you admit you’re guilty and pay the stupid thing, it doesn’t count against your license. I got nailed by a speed camera in the People’s Republic of Boulder about 15 years ago. Never paid it, nothing happened…

      Report Post » frankthekulak  
    • mtnrunner
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 3:45pm

      I live in CO and was actaully halped with parts of the study for the red light cameras in Northern CO. They are at the specific intersection because there were more deaths due to t-bone type crashes form people running the red lights. This has reduced ever since the cameras were installed. They have been a good thing. Now photo radar cameras for speeding and Boulder those are on a different topic. Boulder is, well I have to be nice, and speed cameras, I am unsure.

      Report Post »  
  • michaelmoron
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:47am

    Great job. keep it up. Need more youth like this to stand up to the Tyranny we face here, in the great U.S.of A.

    Report Post » michaelmoron  
  • Thighmaster
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:47am

    “I heard from enough citizens that we have a problem in Longview,” Anagnostou said. “They changed my opinion.”

    Why is it these elected officials don’t have to have signed petitions to support these almost always false claims? They can never name names but we have to….

    Report Post » Thighmaster  
    • Dale
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:48am

      Yes, as mentioned earlier, the Benjamin’s changed his mind.

      Report Post » Dale  
  • liberalsarealiens
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:45am

    Good on ya, my Man! Time to get the government OFF OUR BACK!

    Report Post » liberalsarealiens  
  • jdare
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:44am

    It is for Revenue and only Revenue despite what crap they spout!

    Report Post » jdare  
  • SICKANTIRED
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:37am

    Woo Hoo go for it :-0

    Report Post » SICKANTIRED  
  • SICKOFPCNESS
    Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:34am

    Way to go Kid….how nice to see a 17 year old using and standing up for common sense!

    Report Post »  
    • grandmaof5
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:12am

      He is a conservative island in a sea of liberals. I wish him all the luck in the world with his project and hope the citizens of Olympia back his efforts. Perhaps he should consider running for mayor or city council when he turns 18.

      Report Post »  
    • Meyvn
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:18am

      Rock on Kid!

      Report Post » Meyvn  
    • burned at edges
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:18am

      I am soooo glad the Minnesota supreme court ruled they are against Minnesota’s state constitution!

      Report Post »  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:28am

      Good going kid, getting an early start on standing up for y our rights.
      I think they should put in a big wall of steel that pops up when the light turns red. When red-light runners try to run the light, they run into the wall of steel. THAT, will stop those pesky “running the red light accidents.”

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • Professional Infidel
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:48am

      Next, the cameras will shoot (HVLT) you, if you stop on the crosswalk line, instead of behind. Big Brother at His Best. Can I vote by absentee ballot?

      Report Post »  
    • smithclar3nc3
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:50am

      This kid has it right and it’s good to see the youth fighting these Orwellian government programs.

      Report Post »  
    • Sound The Trumpet In Zion
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 9:17am

      I too feel that the governments are using them as “income getters” but if people would obey them and stop when they are supposed to instead of using the yellow light to mean for them to speed up and blast through an intersection to beat the red light would end them as a means to get extra income, and the intersections would be safer. Of course, with or without the red light cameras if the police would start getting hard-nosed about getting people for running a red light with NO exceptions then there wouldn’t be a need to have the cameras. People just need to take the yellow light as meaning for them to come to a gradual stop before the light turns red. The yellow light’s purpose is only to give the people right there at the intersection already a chance to get across before the light turns red, it does not mean for them to speed up. If the towns really wanted to stop the a lot of the accidents at the intersections they could make these changes. Right now the yellow light stays on for about 15 seconds on up then after 2 or 3 seconds the cross light changes to green. Make the yellow lights come on for about 5 seconds and then delay the cross light to not change to green for about 15 – 20 seconds. That would give plenty of time for cars to be out of the intersection.

      Report Post » Sound The Trumpet In Zion  
    • TomFerrari
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 9:23am

      City officials convince themselves they are saving money by using cameras.
      Instead of paying an officer, they use a camera.
      WHERE ARE THE UNIONS ON THIS???
      Replacing officers with cameras?
      You would think they would be ALL OVER this.

      The cities are sold a bill of goods by the suppliers of the cameras, though.

      Many of the cameras are not owned by cities – the cities allow them to be placed in the city by private companies – the company issues a massive citation – double what the city used to charge – and keeps part and passes a big chunk back to the city – often larger than the city receives from ‘live’ tickets.

      These companies are making BIG profits.

      I’m all for capitalism.
      But…
      At the expense of someone else?
      What good or service did the fined person receive?

      I don’t have all the answers on this one, I’m still mulling it over.

      It DOES make me wonder – if a city has installed enough cameras, shouldn’t they be able to afford to lay off a single officer? Or, at least avoid having to hire 1 or 2 more?
      Maybe thousands of these cameras would eliminate the budget problem of cushy pensions?

      But, big bro is everywhere now – I do NOT feel as though I actually HAVE privacy in my person or papers any longer. They “mine” our credit card purchases, montior our phone calls, photograph us dozens of times a day… all without warrants.

      INVASIVE.

      Report Post » TomFerrari  
    • ozchambers
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 9:31am

      I live in the relatively conservative state of Virginia in a suburban area just outside of Richmond, and these cameras are EVERYWHERE. Take a look around your own town and realize BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING…..

      Report Post » ozchambers  
    • Nervous Investor
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 9:31am

      I am very conservative but cannot agree with this young man on this one. Fact is that collisions at intersections are VERY dangerous. Many of these cameras have been put in in Miami Dade in FL and when visiting that city as I do frequently I see the difference they are making in the quality and safety of the driving near those intersections (even though Miami Dade drivers are STILL way too reckless generally).

      Report Post »  
    • TurnRight
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:12am

      Good for him!
      At least he trying to do something about it, instead of sitting around writting a comment on it.

      Report Post »  
    • Sparky101
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:18am

      In my area, running red lights was a real problem. It’s crowded, and I understand people want to get to work or get home, or get to the liquor store quickly, but when people are still turning left in front of me, and my light has turned green, I’m just assuming they know what they are doing.

      A few times I’ve pulled out anyway, and they honk at me!!!. Once I stopped a semi, mid turn on red when my light went green and over 8 cars continued to turn. He had to back up. It was a mess.

      I liked the quote in the article that some making right turns “don’t fully stop” on a red light. So, now there are shades of “stop”? Like you can “stop” but not all the way?

      If you put a cop car at these intersections, everyone is an angel, with a halo. There are way too many intersections around here. No way we could put a cop at each one. It‘s always been my belief that the true mark of a man’s character, is what he will do when he knows he won’t get caught. Do you steal the money? Do you run the red light? Do you exceed the speed limit?

      Report Post »  
    • Bonesaw
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:26am

      If they are going to use cameras to enforce laws, why do we need cops?
      We should be able to cut our police force then since they no longer have to worry about issuing minor traffic violations.

      Report Post » Bonesaw  
    • Dale
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:37am

      burned at edges
      I am soooo glad the Minnesota supreme court ruled they are against Minnesota’s state constitution!
      —————-
      Firstly, how does Minnesota‘s constitution relate to Washington’s traffic cameras? I am very confused. Secondly, what evidence do you have; I assume you are a constitutional authority.

      Report Post » Dale  
    • ClockKing
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:40am

      “They have instead proposed that the public take an advisory vote on the matter.”

      In other words, the leaders want to control your life, and they DON’T want the people to say anything. Little tyrants.

      Report Post » ClockKing  
    • Eraldo NY Tea Party
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 10:51am

      I’m with you guy!

      Report Post » Eraldo NY Tea Party  
    • Bum thrower
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 11:08am

      Dittos: Good job; Local Radio ‘personality’ came out ‘FOR’ the cameras claiming it was ‘about saving lives’; what a crock; voters voted to remove them and ‘radio personality’ looks like idiot since evidence showed accidents actually WENT UP at the camera locations. Don’t listen to his station any more……

      Way to go, ‘young warrior’….

      Report Post »  
    • Cerealface
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 11:16am

      If you don’t speed or run red lights, what do you have a problem with?

      Report Post » Cerealface  
    • WhataBunchOfShi
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 11:19am

      The Unions are not all over this because they don’t mind doing less work and still getting PAID…Who said any Officer’s were going to be Replaced Doh!!!

      Report Post » WhataBunchOfShi  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 11:25am

      Uh-oh is this kid home schooled?
      He shows a sort of initiative weeded out through ADHD medication at those herding facilities like Longview High.

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • Libertyluvnmomma
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 11:47am

      Nervous investor
      Do you believe we need to be babysat?
      Tyranny is always “for our own good, safety,health etc.” When does it stop?

      the argument is someone ruins it (freedom) for the rest of us.
      REALLY?Is that what freedom is?
      ..but then Conservatives have been raising spoiled, narcissistic, non contributors to bring our society to where it is too. 50/50
      Conservatives are a lot like Christians, they live symbiotically with the world and maybe follow a few more laws and somehow they think they are superior over our mentally deranged liberal counterparts…. think they’re going to heaven too!
      The path is narrow and few will find it. ” They will have a form of godliness but lack it’s power”.-The Bible
      Jesus performed miracles as a man ( after the baptism of the holy Spirit who alighted on him in the form of a dove) – not as God. After the baptism was the beginning of Jesus’ ministry- not before.
      He said we would do even greater things than these. Have you made the lame walk,the blind see (through the spirit)?
      Why not?
      There’s a good chance none of us will make it on those grounds alone.

      Report Post » Libertyluvnmomma  
    • meshaw57
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 12:22pm

      don’t worry it will go broke there, like it has everwhere they have tried this.

      Report Post »  
    • Army Joe
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 1:28pm

      So why is having an instant picture of someone breaking the law so bad? Someone said they go out of their way to avoid those intersections. What in the world is wrong with you? What are you so paranoid about? If you don‘t run the light it doesn’t take a picture.
      This is simple and effective way to enforce a common law. You are not getting violated by going near the darn things. If you are not breaking the law, you are free from the horrendous assault on your freedom. Give me a break. Oh and if they can make a fortune from these cameras and keep my taxes lower, go for it.

      Report Post »  
    • Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 1:36pm

      “Opponents question whether the cameras actually improve safety, noting that many citations are issued to drivers who simply don’t fully stop as they take free right turns at red lights.”

      It should say that citations are issued to drivers who break basic traffic laws. I don’t get how this infringes on your rights. You don’t have a right to break the law. It’s like when people get made about people doing the speed limit in the passing lane. It’s not the speeding lane. You don’t have the right to put other people at risk. If you’re not breaking traffic laws then what is your problem with this? This kid sounds like a flaming liberal.

      Don‘t break the law and you’ll be fine.

      Report Post » Bible Quotin' Science Fearin' Conservative American  
    • Contrarian51
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 1:38pm

      If you obey the traffic laws and drive your vehicle properly, you’re actually better off with the camera than with a police officer. No longer is it the officer’s word against yours, and really, how many of you think a judge will ever throw your ticket out unless you have actual evidence or independent witnesses to your innocence? The video from these cameras is just what you want, unless you’re trying to lie your way out of a ticket.

      The cameras free up police officers to spend more time actually protecting you and investigating criminal acts. The officer doesn’t have to spend time sitting in traffic court to testify against everyone who wants to contest their traffic citation, or spending 15-20 minutes pulling you over and writing your ticket. You save time, too. Your journey is uninterrupted and you get your ticket in the mail. If you committed the violation, you were going to get the ticket either way, so this way is less inconvenient for you.

      The cameras also help resolve accident investigations when one person tries to start lying about who had the green light or the left turn arrow or whatever.

      These cameras allow more efficient allocation of the local governments’ resources. Most folks at this website are fed up with inefficient government, correct? This shouldn’t be the fight you pick.

      Report Post »  
    • thinkinghuman
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 3:33pm

      Get RID of them all. Nothing like being penalized for MINOR infractions. If those cameras are not smart enough to ignore the minor infractions, then YANK them OUT.

      Report Post » thinkinghuman  
    • Contrarian51
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 5:11pm

      @THINKINGHUMAN

      If you don’t think “minor” infractions (and who gets to decide which ones are minor, you?) should be penalized, then get the law changed to eliminate them as infractions. An infraction is an infraction. Commit them at your own peril. Don‘t commit them and you’ll be fine, with or without the cameras.

      Report Post »  
    • emcee
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 7:56pm

      Yeah, God forbid he just drive the speed limit and stop at red lights.

      Report Post »  
    • dnnyshdy
      Posted on June 24, 2011 at 8:26pm

      Hell I don’t know.I say if you don’t run a red light you have nothing to woory about.I know where I live it’s getting ridiculous how many people keep going after the light turns red.It ****** me off when that happens because they’re using up green light time for the other people.

      Report Post »  
    • Nathaniel Horn
      Posted on June 25, 2011 at 1:23am

      Yeah, I got hit with one of these damn things in a northern California town. Thing is they are dishonest. They shorten the yellow cycle so a veteran driver who can estimate time down to a millisecond gets caught with his or her pants down. It’s legalized, high tech robbery. They have the film so there is no defense. I fought mine on principle anyway and lost (of course) claiming foul and the snotty judge prevented me from getting the record (not the fine!) dismissed through traffic court as punishment for daring to challenge their revenue collecting activities. Power corrupts whether national or local.

      The damn thing cost me $500. Totally ridiculous. I might even support them if the fine was reasonable or if it was donated to charity or something. But five hundred bucks? The behavior modifying benefits are completely outweighed by the infuriating revenue piracy factor. If the cops and the city were supported only by taxes and all fines went to charity (without kickbacks!!!) then I would be happy to pay even $500. But this is bullcrap. The older I get the more I realize that everyone in government is a crook. I am becoming more of a Libertarian each and every day. If this trend keeps up I may even become an Anarchist!!!

      Report Post » Nathaniel Horn  
    • Elucidate
      Posted on June 25, 2011 at 8:29pm

      Longview is a small town with affluent and poor. I bet the redlights will go. However, I’m for red-lights at intersections that experience repeat occurrences. If the red-lights remain, the city should pass a law making them revenue neutral. No monies go to fund anything except for the operation of those cameras. Does the city or police ever consider the cost to the person to fight an erroneous ticket? No, I contend if the ticket was erroneous, the city should be fined 10x the ticket. Make it hurt so they won’t get it wrong. On another note, I’m betting those cameras have polarized lenses. Just but a bit of film 90-degrees to what is known about the equipment, and done, camera will never see the person or plate.

      Report Post » Elucidate  
    • Blipper
      Posted on June 25, 2011 at 11:01pm

      This kid is fighting the good fight. The people who say “if you don’t speed or run the red light, then you have nothing to worry about,” and then defend these cameras are missing the whole point. Most people are. The point is the Constitution. These cameras should never be allowed because they are unconstitutional. There is NO PROBABLE CAUSE. They can’t just set up cameras everywhere to monitor your every move, waiting for you violate some law. They have to have probable cause to arrest you, fine you or penalize you in some way. Just because you come up to an intersection is NOT probable cause that you will break some law. This is an infringement on our rights. Like the groping and scanners of the TSA. People say the same thing about those infringements. “If you have nothing to hide, then what’s the problem?” The problem is they have no right do it. The problem is we let them take more of our rights away every day. The infringements will keep getting more numerous and personal until we have no more rights and no privacy at all. But it’s all for the “common good.” Right, the good of government power and control. We have to stop being sheep and fight these things while we still can.

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    • Contrarian51
      Posted on June 26, 2011 at 9:47pm

      Quite a stretch, Blipper. By your theory, radar guns or cops observing intersections are unconstitutional as well. Or are you on the “right to privacy” track? It’s been long held that you have no reasonable expectation of privacy when you are out in public, and that includes driving your car.

      “Probable cause”? Really? That’s for search and seizure, not enforcing traffic ordinances. Sorry, no sale.

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