Militia on Trial: ‘Good Ol’ Boys’ and Preppers, or Anti-Gov’t Domestic Terrorists?
- Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:58am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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DETROIT (AP) — Seven members of a Midwest militia accused of plotting to overthrow the government are set to stand trial, where jurors will decide whether federal authorities prevented an attack by homegrown extremists or simply made too much of the boasts by weekend warriors who had pledged to “take our nation back.”
Opening statements are set for Monday once a jury is seated in the trial of members of the Hutaree militia, who are charged with conspiring to commit sedition, or rebellion, as well as weapon crimes.
This combo of eight photos provided by the U.S. Marshals Service on Monday March 29, 2010 shows from top left, David Brian Stone Sr., 44, of Clayton, Mich,; David Brian Stone Jr. of Adrian, Mich,; Jacob Ward, 33, of Huron, Ohio; Tina Mae Stone and bottom row from left, Michael David Meeks, 40, of Manchester, Mich,; Kristopher T. Sickles, 27, of Sandusky, Ohio; Joshua John Clough, 28, of Blissfield, Mich.; and Thomas William Piatek, 46, of Whiting, Ind., suspects tied to Hutaree, a Christian militia. Jury selection is getting under way in Detroit federal court Tuesday, Feb. 7, 2012, nearly two years after the dramatic arrest of people who authorities say belonged to a southern Michigan militia with a goal of rebelling against the government. The trial is expected to last weeks. It involves seven of the nine people charged with belonging to a group called Hutaree. The government says they conspired to try to kill a police officer and plotted further strikes. No one was ever attacked, and the defendants say they're being prosecuted for saying stupid things. Joshua Clough, bottom row second from right, is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree. (AP Photo/U.S. Marshall)
Following the March 2010 arrests in southern Michigan, Ohio and Indiana, U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said the time had come for authorities to “take them down.” An undercover agent had recorded the group’s leader, David Stone, saying the militia needed to “start huntin’” police soon.
But since their capture, only one of nine people charged has struck a plea deal, an unusually low number in a case with so many defendants. Their attorneys have maintained a consistent stance: The anti-government talk was simply colorful yet aimless bluster akin to frustrated pals drowning sorrows around a campfire.
“I’m going to fight it tooth and nail,” David Stone’s wife and co-defendant, Tina Mae Stone, said during a break in jury selection last week. “It was just a bunch of good ol’ boys out to have fun. We did survival stuff. I did it mostly to spend time with my husband. People tell me, `good luck.‘ I don’t need luck. I’ve got God on my side.”
The militia prepared for survival in case of domestic chaos or an attack on the United States, attorneys Todd Shanker and Richard Helfrick said in a court filing. They noted the group even had a website and promoted its weekend outings.
“Regardless of the charges in the indictment, there is no dispute that the aims of the Hutaree militia included the free exercise of their 1st and 2nd Amendment rights, including freedom of speech, association, assembly and the right to bear arms,” said the lawyers, who represent David Stone Jr.
The indictment, however, describes a more sinister band. The government says the Hutaree, based in Michigan’s Lenawee County, was an anti-government group committed to fighting authorities who belong to a so-called “New World Order.” The defendants are accused of conspiring to someday ambush and kill a police officer, then attack the funeral procession with explosives and trigger a broader revolt against the U.S. government.
“The court will hear testimony and examine evidence concerning this particular group’s hatred for, and desire to do physical harm to, law enforcement,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Christopher Graveline said.
The government has more than 100 hours of audio and video, including the recording of David Stone, 47, apparently talking about police.
“I think we gotta just start huntin’ `em here pretty soon. … They’re easy to find, they‘re sittin’ alongside the road and they got these red and blue lights on top of their car,” he said.
A co-defendant, Michael Meeks of Manchester, Mich., replied: “It’s like a Kmart super special or whatever.”
But some conversations were sprinkled with laughter and a mix of subjects, including strippers and drawing Hitler mustaches on photos of state troopers. Agents seized machine guns, unregistered rifles, ammunition and parts for improvised explosive devices.
A picture of the weapons seized from the militia.
The government’s case got off to a rough start in 2010, when U.S. District Judge Victoria Roberts released the nine until trial under strict conditions. The government swiftly appealed but then agreed that four could go home wearing electronic monitors. An appeals court ultimately ordered the other five to remain locked up, including David Stone.
The government relied on an undercover agent inside the group and an informant. But the informant comes with warts: He pleaded guilty in state court to firing a gun during a dispute with his wife and also attempted suicide. Another witness who was married to a Hutaree member not charged in the case attempted suicide and told a grand jury she’s prone to panic attacks.
“How often do American citizens get charged with sedition or inciting discontent and resistance against big government? Heck, most citizens are discontented with the government,” said Lloyd Meyer, a Chicago lawyer and former terrorism prosecutor. “In this case, no one pulled a trigger and no one got hurt. … A jury could believe that the feds went after this group with a meat cleaver instead of a scalpel.”
But Alan Gershel, a former prosecutor who teaches at Cooley Law School in suburban Detroit, said the allegations in the indictment seem more than goofy talk.
“There was planning. There was acquisition of firearms. There was training,” he said. “Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired? You have to choose the moment of time when things go beyond chatter. That’s what the government is aiming at here.”
Joshua Clough of Blissfield, Mich., is the only defendant to make a deal with prosecutors. He pleaded guilty in December to illegal use of a firearm, faces a mandatory five-year prison sentence and could be called as a witness to testify against the Hutaree.
Besides the Stones and Meeks, the other defendants are Joshua Stone of Lenawee County; Thomas Piatek of Whiting, Ind.; and Kristopher Sickles of Sandusky, Ohio. Jacob Ward of Huron, Ohio, will have a separate trial. Besides conspiracy charges, all face at least one firearm charge and some have more.
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Comments (359)
Dismayed Veteran
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:10amThey had poor operational security. They discussed operations in uncontrolled environments. The presence of an undercover agent means they had no counterintelligence controls at all for a long period of time. They EVEN had a website. Remember the WWII saying: Loose Lips Sink Ships. They were incredibly naive about security.
They crossed the line from citizens being prepared to a group discussing the random killing to a law enforcement officer. They ceased being a group of like minded people preparing for an unknown future to an aggressive group preparing to take unprovoked action.
If you replace their names with Arabic or Farsi names, none of us would doubt that this was a terror group.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:24amUmm, I leaning towards silly drunken hillbillies, pissed off about the same stuff many of us are. Beating their chests with bravado, but hardly a threat to anyone. However, I‘d think we’d need more than a couple of quotes and a brief story to actually know what’s going on. At least it appears they’re getting due process.
Report Post »BlackCrow
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:37amAmen; No concept of OPSEC. Thin the herd. One of the “Stars” of Doomsday Prepers has been declared “mentally deficient” by the state of Tennessee and his firearms have been confiscated.
Loose Lips Sink Ships! Don’t be sitting around the VFW hall trying to “recruit” or bragging your stash.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:49amAnd if you replace George Washington with Omar Mohammed you might think the same…Right
Report Post »It’s the end game objective of the group that dictates the discription. THIS GROUP WANTED TO SECURE THE CONSTITUTION NOT DESTROY IT. IT WANTED TO KEEP AMERICA FROM BECOMING MORE AND MORE OF A MILITANT POLICED STATE,IT WANTED TO RESTORE JUSTICE AND BRING AN END TO OVERREACHING GOVERNMENT. DOESN’T SOUND LIKE TERRORIST IDEOLOGY TO ME.
Given their objective If you replaced their names with Washington,Adam,and Jefferson you might think them patriots.
Ruler4You
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:30amWhat c r a p ! The government KNOWS there are more than 30 actual muslim terrorist training camps right here IN THE U.S. They KNOW it. They have gone to them and talked with the people there. But they aren’t riding rough shod over them? Instead they are persecuting people who don’t want to be caught flat footed when the government ruins this country, too.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:31amSmithClark
I fully a return to the Constitution. Like many I took an oath long ago to defend it against all enemies.
My family has fought in every US war beginning with the Spanish American War and continuing to this day.
I am prepared and my most in my neighborhood are also prepared for any future event. We have planned how we will act to aggression.
That is the difference between people who are prepared and people who chose to initiate an attack. This is a group that was planning a random murder of a LEO. That is a terrorist attack.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:20pmDV wrote,
That is the difference between people who are prepared and people who chose to initiate an attack. This is a group that was planning a random murder of a LEO. That is a terrorist attack
When an LEO is used to enforce UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAW or mindlessly follows orders they are no better than the Nazi’s that claimed to follow orders. And while I might not agree with what this groups planned I certainly agree with it’s out rage at the current level of Government. More over if you look at what’s happened in the last 100 years sitting idly by or thinking the law or Constitution will stop this is taking a fools view of the world. The fact is when 53 U.S. citizens were burned to death by our Government for doing nothing more than exercising their 2cd amendment rights. And not a single government offical so much as loses a day pay…SAY IT.
Sure you claim to take an oath oaths like talk is cheap and are only a valuable is the true conviction behind those taking it. We need only look at D.C. to see how cheap oaths are and how willing those who are in power will look the other way the grow over all power no matter who breaks thier oath.
Report Post »We have taxation without representation,we have government commanding free citizens purchases products even if it’s against their religious conviction., we have DOJ that is doesn’t prosecute civil rights case when the victim is white,We have a home land security concentrating their effords on Constitutional protected malitias,
smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:26pmWe have multiple agencies co-ordinating illegal gun purchasing operations in an attempt to justify stricter Guns. We have an entire party who control the Senate,executive branch and half of the Supreme Court in return for entitlement(bribes) that pays zero.and consumes over half of the half to the tax dollars.
Report Post »I’ld say these people have a right to be enraged every effing tax payer in this country does
Dismayed Veteran
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:51pmSmithClark
I understand your position. I too believe we need to return to the Constitution quickly and reaffirm our rights and feedoms. We need to figure out how to stop spending and get our budget in balance.
I just believe that groups that band together to randomly kill law enforcement officers is a terrorist group.
BTW. I paid a price for my oath.
Report Post »Oldshooter
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:28pmI don’t think they had “poor opsec” at all. They sound to me like a bunch of good ‘ole boys who are angry at the current govt and blowing off steam. Do you call it having “poor opsec” when you go out with your friends and end up bitching about the govt? Groups of “good ‘ole boys” don‘t need opsec protocols because they aren’t terrorist or military groups, ie, they’re not actually serious about attacking the govt or its minions. They may say it is justified, it is a good idea, or even, “we ought to go do it,” but they aren’t specifically planning to act on such talk, and such talk in and of itself, is constitutionally protected. As for transposing arabic names into their group: Seriously? I’m willing to bet there are thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, of muslims all around the world who are talking BS like this even as we speak (OK, write). We do not try to charge or “take down” any of them until they “go active” and actually try to carry out an assault or other crime. Think about the various groups that have been arrested in the last several years. In every case, we waited until they had actually started putting their plans into motion for some kind of attack before arresting them. This group doesn’t seem to have had any sort of clear plan to attack anyone or anything in the govt. Gathering guns, survival supplies, etc. is not only legal but common among non-terrorists, which will make the govt’s case virtually impossible to prove.
Report Post »seljo1701
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 3:25pmSo far, I don’t see any planning. I see stupid comments made about what *would* rightfully be a criminal act, if carried out (attacking/killing a LEO). However, this story does not give us the full context, and therefore the seriousness of the statements, nor does it show planning, a.k.a. premeditation in the legal sense. This is why we have a court system with a jury. They will get to see all evidence. Hopefully, some one just made an offhand comment or two after one brew too many. Maybe they made a habit of making these comments in what was perceived liked minded company, with no real intent. Perhaps they really believed attacking a police funeral would spur a “revolution.” I can see both scenarios as possible. The first being much more likely, IMHO.
Report Post »warrior21
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 5:21amDismayed Veteran – Agreed up to a point, but there is no way they could be considered a terrorist group. They were just a bunch of concerned citizens blowing off steam. JustAngry got it right. Blackcrow – how many citizens have the slightest idea of OPSEC? The fact that they had no OPSEC proves they weren’t a terror group. Ruler4You – It’s not hard to see which side the U.S. Government favors. I believe from the evidence I have seen up to this point they weren’t planning to kill a Law Enforcement Office (LEO). They only talked about it in a joking way. Planning and talking are different. I wonder why the so-called “New Black Panthers” aren’t investigated and nine concerned Americans are? Like many other Americans, I am greatly concerned about the path our country is going down. Like those nine Americans, I would like to be part of an organization that is taking steps to get my country back on the right path. I believe that there is nothing wrong with any organization training its members in survival techniques and the use of firearms. To me, that is only being prepared, and looking at the conditions in the U.S. today, it is a good idea. This is in no way preparing for a revolution. I myself belong to no organization, but having spent 26 years of my life in the military, I am prepared for anything. It is time that the ordinary Americans took a long look at their law enforcement agencies and the steps they take to protect us and the Constitution. Our Departm
Report Post »bhohater
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:07amThis should be a lesson for anyone who thinks it is possible for us to take our country back by force of arms.. Even in a drunken fantasy anyone suggesting it will be swatted like a mosquito. These people might have a chance for acquittal by a jury in a state court, but in federal court they are toast. Learn to live with it. They only way we will ever take our country back is to be patient and be ready to take action when the present corrupt government collapses under it’s own weight.
Report Post »southernORcobra
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:10amhave fun losing your rights and freedoms then
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:11amThe country could fall due to corruption. That is why you work with local law enforcement. The country sheriff might be the only law.
Keep your nose clean & become a reserve officer. Survival is about groups. The overarching group (the U.S.) is failing us because the leaders (?) are too avaricious & stupid (They all have JDs & not much else; They are bigotted). You got to build up relationships in you local community. Church, fraternities, etc.
Report Post »freedom for sale
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:33amThe only way we will ever get our country back is to let it fail and rebuild it.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:58pmDefenders never Win… those with Power form into Units to attack the out-numbered… lies and surprise are weapons… Control weapons and food…
Anyone read the Bible… or play Chess?
Report Post »SDM-Shepherd
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:28pmJust as our country uses Nuclear Weapons as a “deterrent” to other countries to not attack us, a large enough militia force is a deterrent to our own government to abide by the Constitution and prevent government from encroaching on our rights. By vilifying the militia, the government is preventing a “union” of American citizens that would stand against a tyrannical government. If every citizen were an active militia member, would we still fear the government, or would the government fear the people? Thomas Jefferson said “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
Join, create, and participate actively in a militia and put the word out. Only by our actions will our thoughts be known.
http://sdm.cogia.net
Report Post »ShamanWorld
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:06amYou’re an idiot. Read the statistics on US prisons. 45 percent are black for various reasons including and especially GANG RELATED activity. Most of you Blazers must be totally surrounded by white people to be so one-sided on these issues. AG Holder is an idiot, but so were all of Bushs’ cronies.Republican and Democrats both are destroying our country while robbing us blind of our livelihoods.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:06am.
Report Post »If that‘s the case I’m Guilty too………………
mikem1969
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:16amSame here, I am prepared and waiting on them to try and do something. I will not go down without a fight. Give me liberty or give me death.
Report Post »CaptMickeyd
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:46amBut I hope you never talked about killing police officers. I can agree with most of their aims, but killing police is not among them. Killing anyone in an unprovoked attack is unnecessary and talking about it with your well-armed buddies is absolutely idiotic.
Report Post »jasmer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:05pmWhy yes, you are. I probably am as well. Pretty much anyone who doesn’t meet whatever the criteria du jour happens to be.
From the article –
“There was planning. There was acquisition of firearms. There was training,” he said. “Do you have to wait until the first shot is fired? You have to choose the moment of time when things go beyond chatter. That’s what the government is aiming at here.”
What the Gov’t aims at? If this was an Islamist group, or the New Black Panthers, or La Raza, one wonders if Holder’s DoJ would be quite so vehement about the whole affair. But lilly-white flyover hick Christianz? Lucky if they avoid life sentences…
Report Post »ares338
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:02amNormally I don’t give in to alarmism but this is unsettling. Anyone who is preparing for insurrection in this country can be labeled an enemy of America and dissapeared.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:21amNdaa
Report Post »Melvin Spittle
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:24amI guess that means the Muslim organizations too that want to subjugate the world under Islam. They get a pass though because we cannot infiltrate their organizations.
These folks need to enlist the help of the ACLU as well. The government is militiaphobic, which should be a hate crime.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:59amMuslim groups actually have camps. Several of them in fact.
Best place to learn of them in SOF magazine.
The worst place to learn about them is Eric Holder’s Justice Department.
Report Post »amdoktor
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:22amNDAA and 30,000 drones in our future. Soon there will be no trials just internment.
Report Post »Charles
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:01amIf these guys were actually plotting to assault law enforcement they need some prison time. My first impression is that their biggest crime is being white non-liberals
Report Post »Marine25
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:25pmThey planned the murder of a police officer and intended to line the funeral route with IED. They found the explosives, the plans, and the guy who cut the deal was one of three of the group that had travelledl to and videotaped police funerals in order to formulate their bombing plans. The feds only moved when the group set a date for the initial assassination of a police officer. This information was released in the initial press conferences and reprinted in every Michigan and Ohio paper this morning. Yet you think their crime in being white non-liberals? They are terrorists, pure and simple. Defending their terrorism because they look like you and me just reveals your own ignorance. I’m glad they were caught and their plot stopped. Are you?
Report Post »Jcco98
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:57amUh oh. I too am a criminal in the eyes of our government, as I have verbalized distaste for the actions of it’s members. Now I know, I am not allowed to express my frustrations.
Perhaps if I were to join an Occupy group it it would be permitted?
Report Post »mr molotov cocktail
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:30pmoccupy is about transformation-
Report Post »teaparty is about the same ole
occupy = setting things right
teaparty is for the same-**** different day
most in the teaparty are old white people who are in rural red-states who get the most federal dollars
blue-states pay for red-states and we are tired of them taking their handouts while complaining about other peoples handouts….
hands off my entitlements but screw yours- that is why the teaparty is loathed
occupy is for equal justice the same for everyone
but most people dont understand
welfare is just recycling money
without recycling the rich
own all the wealth then the real revolution happens…
rich people do not create jobs people who buy products or services do-
rich people are just the middle-men who inflate or deflate the value-of goods or services
when a nation can’t even afford the goods and services on the market-then the transfer of wealth is too high-
the monetary system is beyond broken and is going to get worse
Marine25
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:49pmYou are allowed to express whatever you want, no First (or Second) Amendment rights have been violated. You are not allowed to conspire to murder anyone. They intended to line the funeral route with Iraqi style IED. The First protects the right to assemble peaceably, but once such assembly goes beyond speech and begins undertaking steps necessary to the commission of a capital crime, it is conspiracy to commit a terrorist and treasonous act. Please stop throwing around the First Amendment until you have at least a little rudimentary understanding of the freedoms it protects.
Report Post »inexiletill2012
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:56amIF the “Government” were doing their job (ie: securing the border,being fiscally responsible and obeying the U.S.Constitution ) then “groups” like this would not even need to form.
But we know the “Government”………will continue to grow……………as well as “groups” like this
Report Post »Busybea007
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:29amOver-reaching Government – has created the entire situation. Return power to the States. Only
Report Post »answer.
heavyduty
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:56amThis just goes to show that big brother is listening so be careful what you say and to who. These guys were probably drinking and having a good time then started talking. Be careful what you post on social media’s, because big brother is watching and listening.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:55amJust sayin’…
The Hutaree militia was led by David B. Stone Sr., who is, according to a former fiancee, “a Ron Paul fanatic.” Andrea March, the ex-fiance of the leader of the Hutaree militia group, spoke with Shepard Smith and said that David Brian Stone was a Ron Paul fanatic who was afraid that Obama would take away his guns.
Marsh: When Obama took the presidency is when he lost it because he was a Ron Paul fanatic.
Smith: Ron Paul fanatic, what does that have to do with ?
Marsh: To tell you the truth I don’t know. I never really understood why Ron Paul was so much different, but he thought he could get away with anything and he wanted more freedoms than what he had and he was trying to do it through the violence.
Smith: Do you know what was his particular concern was with the current government? Was he worried they would take his guns away?
Marsh: Well yes, he clearly believed in guns and having them and he didn’t think . He didn‘t want to have a driver’s licence, he didn’t want to fill out any census papers.
Smith: Oh.
Marsh: He wanted to own guns unregistered….
And he is said to have believed that anti-Christ was on the way and he wanted to do something about that?
Yes, he explained to us that through the bible the world was going to end in war and Christ wanted us to do this. Now he couldn’t prove that to anyone, but the kids always listened to him.
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:01amIf you are not dependant on the government, barack and his criminals will see to it that you are.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:17amWell then PATRIOT… I guess Ron Paul’s “supposed” Conservative camp needs to stop voting for Obama like they did by the thousands in 2008 and endorsing fringe candidates like Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader because Ron Paul said so… and start being team players if you can’t win. If you have no real desire to get Obama out of office, then Ron Paul supporters need to stop whining about the direction of our country and Obama. Whining about the GOP if you‘re a Paul groupie isn’t making it any better.
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:32amggeeeezzzz, act as if I’m one of those madicinal marijuana smokin, paulbots that shoves his head in the ground whenever country is to be defended.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:55amUSAPATRIOT. Okay… ha!
“Medicinal Marijuana?” That’s might explain their pacifism… “fog of war” re-written… “being in a fog, no desire to fight.”
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:07amAgain… just sayin’…
Meanwhile, Stone and his militia have gotten some support from fellow Ron Paul supporters. One, writing illiterately on a forum called the Gold is Money Forum (which is largely devoted to organizing support for both Ron Paul and his son Rand) writes:
“What did they do wrong …. all i have read was there in Jail ……. FOR WHAT ……… being arm and ready get you lock up now.”
Then there’s this:
“At least they’re doing something. What are you doing?”
And, worse, this post claiming that the Hutaree Militia were guilty of nothing other than being critical of Jews, and that’s not against the law.
Worse than that was posted on the Ron Paul Forums, a website maintained by Ron Paul’s political organization (read here). The author calls himself “torchbearer”:
“So this is how the jews felt in germany when the jackboots were rounding them up.”
Torchbearer ends this and every other of his posts with a link to campaign material for the Rand Paul for U.S. Senate campaign.
Rand Paul gave that pro-gun, anti-Obama speech the day before the Hutaree Militia arrests to an audience some of whom were ostentatiously armed with automatic weapons. He said
“I’m not armed today, but I feel pretty safe. I feel like I have a private security detail out there.”
Report Post »Freedomluver
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:04amTIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Paint with a broad brush much?
Your moronic posts would be comical if they were not so logically offensive. How about a little logic rather than your predictable and pathetically worn out guilt by association?
Seems you never even attempt to discuss Paul’s actual positions, and the only thing you have is to attack… are a few nutcases who just so happen to share a few of his views, while desperately attempting to imply that this is the norm.
The reason for this ridiculous line of attack is obvious, as trying to discuss the actual issues exposes your lack of intellect and knowledge of the issues at hand.
Do you really think there are not a few nuts out there who back your candidate of choice? If not, you are a bigger idiot than you have already proven yourself to be.
Personally I would associate anyone who backs a candidate that supports the so called Patriot Act and the NDAA that allows Obama to arrest you with no charges, witnesses, trial by jury, and no release date to be traitors, and an enemy of the Bill of Rights. This position is based on an actual position held by your candidate of choice, and not based on some nut who follows him.
Care to defend your candidate without your silly illogical rants?
Report Post »freedom for sale
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:36amI’m voting for Paul, I‘ve come to realize he’s the only that gets it.
Report Post »Freedomluver
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 12:02pm@Jefferson
I suppose I should ignore the fool, but at the same time answering his nonsense while exposing his lack of ability to defend his so called reasoning is hopefully humiliating enough to cause him to run along.
Then again…the old “don’t feed the trolls” comes to mind as well…
*sigh*
Oh, and I’ve read a number of your posts in the past and I enjoy your sarcasm and sense of humor! :)
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:07pmFreedom
Report Post »I would have voted for Paul if he backed down on his foreign policy points. But he didn’t, I believe that area alone is what is keeping him from winning primaries. Feel free to vote for Paul it’s your right. But If he splits off to try a third party please don’t vote for him. Don’t punish everyone else because you think Paul should have won. Even if you think voting for someone else is voting for the lesser evil, do it. Once we start getting more conservative leaders then the better ones will be able to stand up and not get shredded by others.
WAKEUPUSA2012
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:34pmYou love the government u love gmos u love flouride and vaccines. Well you get what you deserve. Your filled with hate of freedom and liberty. Your a sad little person
Report Post »circleDwagons
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:59pm@time4chains. I think it is past time you see a medical doctor. you and obama scare me
Report Post »Freedomluver
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:13pm@goahead.makemyday
You are certainly not alone in your views on foreign policy and I bet you are correct in your assessement of it holding Paul back in the minds of many.
Personally I think Paul’s right, and his views are in line with the founders, where those on the other side are much more closely aligned with Obama‘s and the CFR’s. Harsh words…yes, but it’s still a fact.
I see this issue as a Booggyman that has been propped up for the specific purpose of undermining and flat out destroying the Bill of Rights, and all of the candidates have joined this bandwagon with the exception of Paul. I see them as either being blind to the results of what they are backing based on irrational fears…or downright complicit in the destruction of the Constitution.
I’m much more fearful of the destruction of the BoR than some virtual third world nation and a few maniacs, and as I see it those who back laws like the NDAA are far more dangerous than any threat we face abroad.
I simply can not vote for someone who I see as a traitor, and I’m done holding my nose while hoping for better luck next time.
If we keep voting for who the powers that be try to force upon us, nothing will change. The only way to send this message loud and clear is to refuse to vote for the same old same old, and then perhaps they will be forced to listen to the people who make up their party.
If forced to choose between those who I see as Mao and Mussolini, I will vote with my conscience
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:29pmSorry gaggle of Paul groupies. Had an appointment with fun and frivolity and just now getting back to enjoy your (@FREEDUMLUVER)… “humiliation.” You sure slapped me around good I‘ll tell ya’! You almost made me NOT want to come back… you’re THAT good. LMAO!
Anyways. I’m a Santorum guy and a GOP eventual nominee voter. I’m assuming you will vote for the eventual nominee to rid ourselves of Obama right? That would surely be the smart thing to do right? Or are you one of the conscience Paul… Obama supporters? I don’t need nor have the time to get into the minutia of a Santorum v Paul argument, policy proposing, ideological discussion blah-blah-blah, because my main focus is to remind you, the rest of the Paul groupies, and anyone else who cares to read that it goes beyond freedom economics 101 with Ron Paul.
I’ll leave the Paul promoting and GOP bashing to the Paul Brigade of comrades. Me? I’ll continue with the crap that follows Ron Paul like these renegades for Ronnie in this topic, and the Obama electing machine that IS Ron Paul and the rest of his acolytes. You can stick with bashing everyone else. I only have time for YOUR guy.
Remember… you guys voted for him… we in the GOP didn’t (Obama that is).
Ron Paul is and has always been
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 4:38pmThe rest of my comment….
Ron Paul is has always been… an also ran. I’m here to show everyone why. You can talk about his good points, but you can only go so far. I’m here for the rest of the story.
The story you like to ignore.
Report Post »momsense
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:52amLiberal paranoia on steroids. If they so certain they have the corner on truth, why are they so afraid?
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:49amI love America. I HATE the Government. So therefore I am a terrorist because i prepare for the fall of my Nation?
Thank you big Sis. I hope when the shooting starts you get yours…I will be in my bunker planning to restore the Republic with the Constitution along with other so called “terrorists”.
Patriot=Terrorist and 2+2=5
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:14amCheer up Baddoggy. Just think about all the fun we’ll have at FEMA camp. Singing around the campfire, smores, communist indoctrination… It will be like the movie “Meatballs”… silly antics and the annual competition with the rich kids from the FEMA camp across the lake. “Are you ready for the summer? Are you ready for the good times?” Let’s just hope Bill Murray is our camp councelor.
Report Post »bhohater
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:29amDon’t think for one minute that “Big Brother” isn’t monitoring this blog. And don’t think for one minute your local sheriff is on your side if you own firearms and say bad things about the government.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:31am@BHOHATER, Drudge had an article the other day stating DHS was keeping tabs on people searching for things such as, the CIA, FEMA, etc. I think it‘s safe to assume we’re being watched here. Especially when one of the first things Barry did was issue a memo to DHS to keep an eye out on those dangerous veterans…
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:36am“So therefore I am a terrorist because i prepare for the fall of my Nation?”
Depends. Do you have unregistered weapons and have openly talked to a group about hunting cops and then opening fire on the crowd at their funerals?
Report Post »USPATRIOT101
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:02pmlocked we don’t register weapons here in Fla.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 2:12pmYeah, the more I looked into this group, the more I realized they’ve had a troubled past. I didn’t realize, at first, this was the same group that already got in similar trouble back in 2010.
Report Post »SDM-Shepherd
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 5:43pmIf you haven’t joined a militia, it’s time. If you can’t find one, start one. If you are physically unable to train then guard a post, do paperwork, organize, recruit, donate. We guarantee our own freedoms. We are already militia, so get active. We are the only deterrent of tyranny. If every citizen were an active militia member, we would no longer fear a tyrannical government. Let’s make it so.
http://www.sdm.cogia.net
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 7:31pm@SDM-SHEPARD Yeah, because Glenn Beck’s blog is the best place to start a militia.
Report Post »SDM-Shepherd
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:05am@JUSTANGRY – You can try and start a militia on a blog if you like, but I think your home town would be more appropriate. Either that, or just go quietly into the night.
Report Post »Havok
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:40amThought Crime.
Report Post »old white guy
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:45amsee how well you are going to be able to stand against obama. i hear alot of lock and load comments. i guess these guys weren’t locked and loaded or maybe not to serious about doing what they are charged with. i guess freedom is not worth dying for these days.
Report Post »2theADDLED
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:00amThese are not militia members first Militia members would never surrender without shots fired these are just the average citizen fed up with Government intrusion into there lives. As for the arsenal that is just the average michiganders love of collecting of firearms as for improvised explosive components a simple 9 volt battery could be considered a improvised explosive component. As for sedition I think we all have said things no matter who the president is.
Report Post »bhohater
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 10:25amWhy not? We already have “Hate crime” and “Newspeak.” (Also known as “PC.”)
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:14pm2theaddled
Report Post »I agree with your point. If they were truly determined to overthrow the government and kill police officers they had the perfect chance when they came to arrest them. If they were serious then they knew that the only way for a people to rise up is if the people see an action and believe they’re lives and their loved ones lives are on the line. What better way than to kill 5 police officers then hide in the forest and force them to level the place in excessive force? If these guys were truly serious than we wouldn’t have heard of their arrests but of them dying in a firefight with the police.
bigfatslob
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:34amI vote aquital !
Report Post »TAXEVERYONE
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:42amObama Soros 2012
Report Post »Bill Rowland
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:25pmDon’t threaten the police, most of them are on our side and don’t like Obubler and his czars any more than we do. I truly believe the police in my area would be ou the side of the patriots who want to restore the constitution.
OMG
Report Post »scrapadapolis
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:31amThis is what happens when people who see a country going down the tube and knew it.but were called nuts,gun happy,hillbillys,Now that what they have been practing for has been comming true the Obama camp takes them down because he knows that when people get pushed down and have their throats steped on by boots people will join these groups in droves and become more powerful than Obama himself.Do you really think the tea partys peaceful gatherings are going to change commie obammie.No somewhere along the line this country will have to be taken back by force..
Report Post »mtorres20
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:31amHopefully they will be freed soon.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:27amThese militia members will stand trial for sedition yet the Marxist POS in the white house is seditious and he’s living in the lap of luxury.He violated the constitution with an undeclared war in Libya and passed a soon to be declared unconstitutional law,Obama care.It’s in the declaration of independence,if the government becomes oppressive it’s the duty of the citizens to over throw the government.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:46amTo quote Ed.
Report Post »You are correct,sir.
It‘s is our duty as citizens to hold the government accoiuntable for it’s actions and not just every election year either. it’s 24/7/365
The problem is our court systems both federal and state are all now all one in the same. State soveriengty is almost non-existant at this time. We need to re-establish out soveriengty by enforcing the 10th amendment. We need to revamp the current tax system as well so the government only recieves tax dollars for defense. There’s no reason to send taxes to D.C. so D.C. can send them back. The moneies states renerate need to stay in the the state. D.C. ONLY JOB IS TO PROTECT THE BORDERS AND DEFEND THE COUNTRY.
RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:49amPROGRESSIVESLAYER, My thoughts exactly as I read the article. It also struck me as rather funny that they are worried about seven people being able to overthrow the government and call the successful Islamic related murders as work place crimes.
Report Post »Wonder which federal gulag they will toss this militia in after their trial by highly selected jurors?
momsense
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:55amLiberals never let the Constitution stand in their way, nor do they ever read it. They would rather run government by a foreign philosophy( Marxism) rooted in the blood of the French Revolution.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:01amRJJINGADSDEN It‘s safe to say these patriots are toast and you’re correct the jurors will be carefully selected,the regime won’t leave anything to chance in gaining a conviction.Disobedience to the regime will not be tolerated,similar to N.Korea and I suspect we’ll see more of these kangaroo courts in the near future.Thomas Jefferson’s quote is appropriate here.When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:40amIt‘s safe to say these patriots are toast and you’re correct the jurors will be carefully selected,the regime won’t leave anything to chance in gaining a conviction.
Report Post »The citizens have been lied to for decades the schools are the foundation of the lie. No once in my 12 years of public education not in single civics or government lesson was jury nulifacation and it’s power to right wrongs evert adressed. Jury nulifacation is the power of the people and the enemy of tyranny. It can pull the rugs from under the feet of vindictive prosecutor,over reaching governmental authority and balance the scales of justice by returning the rule of law back to the people.
Jury Nulifacation should be taught in every civic,government and history course from 6th grade social studies to 12 grade government. The people have to made to understand that they are the law they are in charge they are the backbone of a self governed society. They are not to slaves of government the government are slaves to them.
RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:35amPROGRESSIVESLAYER, You are so dead on about us seeing even more kangaroo courts in the near future, but they have been going on for decades. Most recently some of our brave Boarder Patrol agents have faced the wrath of these courts. The federal judges were in open collusion with the federal DAs and stopped the agents’ attorneys from bringing forth actual evidence, and denying certain witnesses from taking the stand. That sir, is a true kangaroo court.
Report Post »w4rpedfr4me
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:25amThose who are in power will do what they must to keep their power.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:20am“That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”
I submit to you that this government is losing its consent to be governed by more and more people, every day.
If Barry and his crowd are reelected and keep this going, we’re looking at a second Civil War at best, a second American (but French) Revolutiuon, at worst. I pray that they wake up and turn course every day. Sadly, it doesn’t seem they will.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:38amNo it doesn’t,because it’s really this simple,if the takers outnumber the makers our republic is doomed because the takers will ‘fundamentally transform America’ into a Marxist utopia where everybody will be equal,equally poor.We’ll have two classes,the uber rich and the poor.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:57amPROGRESSIVESLAYER, Yep, and those uber rich will be the politicians running the country. Soviet Russia all over again.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:15amRJJINGADSDEN I never thought I’d see the death of our republic but we are witnessing it right now,just look at the expansion of the federal government regulating every minute part of our lives,they,progressives are fanatical about control.The assault on the constitution began a century ago and over time our rights have been eroded to the point we’re practically a communist state now.Just look at the ten planks of the communist manifesto and be shocked.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:51amPROGRESSIVESLAYER, Nikita Kruschev was correct when he said to a gathering of western ambassadors at the Moscow Polish embassy, We will bury you from within. Now, I did not put quotation marks on that sentence since it is actually a very boiled down version of Kruschev’s actual quote. But, it does in a shorter statement define his meaning. Regardless, the statement is definitely coming to fruition.
Report Post »rightwingheroes
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:15am8 people going to take down the US government? hardly. In the meantime, Occupy is still around and they are the real seditious, anarchist revolutionaries
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:21amif this was the anti american black panthers………….opps that would not be a problem
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:29amThe Constitution was hanging by a thread! All hail the Federal authorities who keep us safe!
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:13amIn the end, we’re all going to be terrorists, according to this regime.
I can’t put anything (even that) below an Administration that tells the military’s Chaplains not to use their First Amendment right to religious freedom and free speech by speaking out of their own conscience re: abortion mandates because doing so is tantamount to sedition.
This regime is moving in the direction of a Stalinist (or Maoist) crackdown. Baby steps at first, then the avalanche hits you.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:12am…and they almost got away with it! Why, the Federal Government was inches away from total annihilation! Thank you federal authorities, you have saved the nation! Oh brother.
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:18pmyou mean oh big brother
Report Post »conservativejon
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:09amif talking about killing a cop is illegal why is occupy oakland still on the streets
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:14amOccupy Oakland‘s agenda aligns with the Marxist POS in the white house so the degenerates get a free pass to do Barry’s bidding.
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:23amExcellent observation!
Report Post »I will not hold my breath until the regime’s (in)justice department offers a legitimate explaination or goes after the “occupy” crowds.
AnOregonian
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:34amVery good point!
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:20pmIt’s catch and release in Oakland. They say something to violent they get arrested, get a meal, and more training and release them back into the crowd.
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:04amIf that’s the case why are these communist groups be rounded upand trialed for wanting to overthrow the government. That’s obvious their agenda they want a communist government…..hence overthrow of our present system. ….
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:04amSay what?
Report Post »smithclar3nc3
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 9:53amI meant why aren’t these open communiost groups being round up as their objective is overthrowing the current system.
Report Post »RJJinGadsden
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 11:54amSMITHCLAR3NC3, LOL, sorry for the misunderstanding. Thought that I’d had enough coffee by then to better understand. Thanks for giving me your straight answer.
Report Post »goahead.makemyday
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 1:22pm*Whiplash from double take* Oh I see yeah that’s a good question.
Report Post »Lerojist
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 6:41pmI agree. The government have allowed known communist organizations to practice their dirty work for many years, such as the ACLU. Our public schools are nothing more than indoctrination camps by the New World Order. Why haven’t the government done something about them?
Bottom line folks, the enemy within want to target, destroy, those that created this country…white European Americans.
A nation is defined by a dominant culture, a heritage, a language, a faith. The U.S. was created by white people, rooted in the Bible…a Christian nation. But, the One World Order, rooted in evil, wants to destroy our nation, our people.
God told us not to become a part of the world, not to intermingle, intermarry, yet the enemy within this nation opened our gates to the world. Multiculturalism is being used as a weapon.
Good people are being disarmed by pity, by mandate, by political correctness. We should walk in peace, but we mustn’t put our guard down, must not be stupid, must be alert.
ENOUGH is ENOUGH.
Report Post »JDF10487
Posted on February 13, 2012 at 8:02amWarning:You Are Being Set Up
Obama’s DHS is setting Patriotic Americans up to be labelled as terrorists.
Here is a list of beliefs and actions that could place you under scrutiny and cause you to be arrested and detained without due process.
http://www.infowars.com/see-something-say-something-could-label-any-american-a-suspected-terrorist/
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