JACKSON, Miss. (AP) – A Mississippi state judge sent a lawyer to jail for several hours for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance in court, according to court records.
Chancery Judge Talmadge Littlejohn told people in his Tupelo courtroom Wednesday to stand up and say the pledge.
Oxford attorney Danny Lampley stood up. But he “failed and refused” to recite the pledge and was jailed for criminal contempt of court, according to the judge’s order, obtained by The Associated Press.
Lampley, 49, was booked into the Lee County jail where he stayed for about five hours.
Littlejohn’s order said: “Lampley shall purge himself of said criminal contempt by complying with the order of this Court by standing and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in open court.”
But the judge later ordered Lampley’s release, saying he was scheduled to represent a client in the courtroom.
Littlejohn did not respond to messages left at his home and office. Lampley didn’t respond to calls, either.
Lampley told The Northeast Mississippi Daily Journal that he has a lot of respect for the judge but wasn’t going to back down on this issue.
“I don‘t have to say it because I’m an American,” Lampley told the newspaper, “I’m just not going to back off on this.”
The judge’s calendar said Lampley was representing a client in a divorce case at the time of the contempt order.
Littlejohn is in his second term as a chancery judge and presides over a court that handles cases like divorces and child custody disputes. Judges in Mississippi are elected, though they run in nonpartisan races.
Littlejohn is running unopposed for re-election in November.
Littlejohn is a former state lawmaker. He ran for a congressional seat as a Democrat in 1996. He came in second out of three candidates in the Democratic primary and lost a runoff.
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Comments (223)
sapper
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:03pmhmmm…..while I can relate to the lawyers rebellion to a judge trying to force him to recite the plegde….technically he is in contempt of court for not doing so. Secondly, the first amendment is a restriction on the federal government, not a local, district or even state court and the only constitutional protection is that he won’t be arrested and prosecuted by the federal government. Wonder why it’s so hard for people to get that little overlooked fact. The judge is a bit out of line I think but well within his authority to do what he’s doing. The lawyer will lose this one I think and he should. Don’t understand his reluctance to recite the pledge anyway if he is an american. Guess he’s like most morons who want the benefits of America without the responsibility and obligations that go with it. Frankly, wish the judge had left him in jail and assigned a public defender for his client.
Report Post »Newtie and the Beauty
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:31pmWhat a judge says in his/her courtroom, goes. Period. Right or wrong, it’s been that way for ages.
Report Post »VanGrungy
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:17pm“Saying” and “Dictating Actions” are two different things…
What the Judge did was to decide that the Court Procedures are a ‘living’ document, proceeding to force an UNCONSTITUTIONAL change that would not be enacted legislatively by our elected representatives.
What if a non-American citizen, just actually visiting, were to be present in the court room. Would you expect a non-American to join in on a pledge that they didn’t believe?
What does it say about our Justice Systems when this kind of blatant favoritism is shown by a supposedly IMPARTIAL Judge? Would the Judge send a foreigner to jail for not reciting the American Pledge of ALLEGIANCE?
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 2:18pmThat is not correct. There is no law that requires anyone to recite the pledge. Contempt of court is for disobeying rules of law or flagrant attempts to disrupt or derail the proceedings.
My gut tells me that there is more to this story that isn’t in the headlines. I suspect that it wasn’t the refusal to recite the pledge that landed this man in contempt, but rather an obnoxious and out of line response to the request that he do so.
Report Post »BSEverywhere
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:57amI wouldn’t be so quick to side with the judge here. Once someone has power and is allowed that power they will abuse it. If it had been a liberal judge who wanted to have the pledge spoken but without the words “Under God” would you guys be supporting his decision to throw the lawyer in jail? Freedom of speech is freedom of speech, don’t pick and choose.
Report Post »Bobby P
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:54amGood job judge. Patriotism is becoming a lost art.
Report Post »Danaman
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:53amObama won’t say it either.
Report Post »winterhawka7ac
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:51amThere is no way he (the judge) can be a libturd. No way.
Report Post »Amy Orum
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:45amSorry if this posts twice but I am new here and am not sure if the first one got through.
Report Post »I live in Gulfport, MS and my pastor told me that he doesn’t say the pledge either. He feels that he should pledge his allegiance to the Kingdom of God alone.
Amy Orum
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:40amI live here in Gulfport,MS and have been told that my pastor at church doesnot say the pledge either. he feels that he should only pledge his alegions (sp) to the kingdom of Christ
Report Post »NRABIBLETHUMPER
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:45pm@AMY ORUM, I think your pastor may be a little over the top (IMHO)… Pledging “allegiance to the flag” does not in any way detract from his faith in God. It‘s pledging his allegiance to our country which laws are based upon God’s Law’s, hence the one nation under God portion of the pledge. This is just my opinion but I think I would find another church. That is what I would expect from an Imam.
Report Post »sirnubwub
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:10pmThe pledge of allegiance is a promise to be an ally of the United States government. Since the government has stopped following the constitution long ago, I find it impossible to make such a promise. The republic can easily go downhill to be something rather horrible. I will not promise to stand by it.I will be glad to promise allegiance to the constitution, not this republic.
I promise allegiance only to my God. As a citizen of the US, I don’t have to promise to be its ally, I just have to accept its laws and punisments.
The lawyer doesn’t have to be a citizen of the US, why would he have to say the pledge? The lawyer just has to follow the rules of the laws. There is no law that we must say the pledge.
Report Post »principessa
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:38amNow that’s a stand up judge! Respect in the courtroom is still the required behavior. There’s so little left in our culture…
Report Post »mintyfresh
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 10:46pmi hate those left wing nut job judges who “legislate from the bench” and blatantly go against the constitution. oh wait… a conservative judge in direct violation of the 1st amendment this time! i thought you people were all about the constitution. red herring?
Report Post »GardenoftheGods
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:35amJudge’s courtroom makes me think Lawyer should have said the Pledge; and talked to the Judge later about his desire to not say the Pledge. I guess my question would be…If the Lawyer doesn’t say the Pledge; should he be allowed in the courtroom? I don’t know the answer…it’s just on of those..Hmmmm, what do u think things
Report Post »biggreenboo
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:48amNot trying to attack you… but that’s like saying the SS Trooper should shoot the Jew… Then go talk to Hitler and tell him how he feels.
The whole thing is rediculous… they were there to try a case… i’m sure the defendant was like, Hey this is my life, my trial, my time. For the love of God… Me!!!
Sorry if the Hitler thing affends anybody.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on October 8, 2010 at 3:12amIf the courts were still private entities like they were when this country was originally founded then you might have a case for kicking someone out of court for this, but, the courts are public and owned wholly by the citizenry which means that the judge doesn’t OWN the court. The people do, and seeing as how the judge doesn’t own the land or the building, he has ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to expel someone who isn’t breaking a law. Last I checked a person doesn’t have to do anything but eat, sleep, drink, and breathe to have their rights and priveleges that go along with being a human.
Report Post »Beltfeed
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:33amAdd your comments
Report Post »top dog
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:57pmHow do you keep score??
Report Post »Beltfeed
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:31amFREE “OBAMA DARTBAORD” click on BELTFEED above to get yours.
Report Post »biggreenboo
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:29amI’m going to side with the lawyer… you should want to say the Pledge… not be forced. That’s why we left England in the first place. Tyranny at its finest.
Report Post »RavenGlenn
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:29amSeriously? People are cheering the judge on this one? This is the United States of America. You absolutely have no obligation to say the pledge of allegiance and NOBODY can make you do so. The judge should have his status removed for breaching the constitution and law. The judge is abusing his power and needs to be dealt with.
I can’t believe people are sticking up for the judge on this one. What’s next? If you don’t say the national anthem, you get jailed? Do we really want to go the route of communist dictatorships?
Report Post »Rowgue
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:43amCorrect. As distateful as I find people that won’t say the pledge the judges actions were a criminal abuse of power in this case.
Report Post »dablooz
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:28amSounds like the lawyer is a little confused on what an American is. If you don’t pledge your allegiance “to the republic for which it stands”, are you really part of that republic? Perhaps the lawyer doesn’t believe in liberty and justice for all. If he’s hung up on the God part, maybe he could just mumble during that portion?
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:47amSo people should have to constantly reafirm their allegiance whenever someone demands it? I would have thought every citizen is comitted to their country until proven otherwise.
Report Post »dablooz
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:53amWith that logic, why take the oath prior to testifying. Why do members of congress get sworn in? Do they not affirm their allegiance by running. Why do they sing the national anthem before sporting events? If the citizens are committed to their country, this act shouldn’t bother them. Have a great day.
Report Post »moriarty70
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:09pmBut is the Pledge constant in every session of every court? If not then it‘s arbitrary and shouldn’t result in punishment. The other things you refer to are consistent in that they are always done.
Report Post »Susan Harkins
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:27am“Chancery Judge Talmadge Littlejohn told people in his Tupelo courtroom Wednesday to stand up and say the pledge.”
Well, many might overlook the fact that its the Judge’s courtroom, when he is in session, and if he can call for all parties on the stand, to swear under oath, he can also ask them to pledge loyalty to our flag and country. It is not like he asked him to hop on one leg with a hula-hoop (which is not court-related). These requests are quite in line with courtroom etiqite. The notion that they guy has the “freedom not to speak”, doesn‘t make it an appropriate action IN THE JUDGE’S COURT == Hense: “Contempt of Court” vs. “Contempt of the United States”. Fair call, in my opinion.
Report Post »Handsome Pete
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:35amIf wish all lawyers DID have to hop on one leg with a hula-hoop…
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:29pmSusan – eloquently stated.
Report Post »Bahemut80
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:26amI agree with the judge, game set match.
Report Post »Dustyluv
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 2:20pmWhere does the game set and match end? What if he starts jailing people for not bowing to him?
Freedom of speech also means freedom to not speak or we are doomed to be slaves of whatever power hungry ***** wants.
The Judge is wrong and needs to be removed for abuse of power. The lawyer is a jerk and should be ashamed of himself…But fully within his rights. As much as I hate it he has the right to protest. Only misinformed ignorant people who don’t know the Constitution would say the judge is correct, because he isn’t!
Report Post »kontrarian
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 7:27pmMany judges pass laws, usurping the powers of the legislative branch and violating their oaths, justifying their treason by speciously describing the Constitutuion as a “living document”. One does owe allegiance to his country; if one disagrees on this point, the argument should be debated and the Constitution amended as required by law. The “living document” crowd always reveals their subversion after the fact, because they would be constrained by their subversive and unpopular views, if openly espoused, from ever gaining power sufficient to illegally impose their dogma on others. We now are in such dire straits because all three branches of government are heavily populated with these “stealth” ideologues, to such a drastic degree that the will of eighty percent of the population is compelled to submit to the perverted wishes of the twenty percent composed of enemies of the Constitution.
This judge does not fall into the above described category.
Report Post »Steve
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:25amAgain, it sucks yes, but he has the right under the 1st Amendment to NOT have to recite anything if he doesn’t want to.
Report Post »biggreenboo
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:25amAdd your comments
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:32pmWhat is in the water these judges are drinking? Whatever it is, there’s a major market for it because it gives the illusion of great power.
One black judge attempts to overturn a plea bargain because the defendant is white and in his opinion, a black defendant wouldn’t have gotten the same plea bargain and now this?
Hey, I am 100% for courts and other government agencies opening with the Pledge of Allegiance. Don’t get me wrong here. But to compel someone to recite the Pledge is wrong. As far as I can tell, the attorney was standing up and respectful during the pledge. The judge demanding that the attorney recite it is out of line. He was not disrespectful or disruptive.
Report Post »cruisemates
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:53pmInteresting comment. In a courtroom the judge has the right to lead the proceedings. The attorney refused to comply. Therefore the attorney was technically wrong, so the judge had him arrested. It should make for an interesting trial.
Still – We do have freedom of speech in our Bill of Rights and if the attorney did not want to say it he does not have to justify why. Respect for individuals rights comes first.
Bottom line – I don’t mind people bashing other people for doing unpatriotic things, but I disagree when they say the person does not have the right to protest peacefully. They do have the right.
I am for patriotism, but forced patriotism is not real, it is facism.
Report Post »SnapTie
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:24amWonder what the lawyers payout will end up being to make it go away.
Report Post »Harry
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:21amSounds like the judge is a little out of line here to me. But I don’t know anything about his reasons or the other circumstances surrounding this, other than what is in this article.
Report Post »DimmuBorgir
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:19ami can’t stand people who use the constitution to bash america
Report Post »2
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:48amYa Me too. I think We should Vote on an Amedment to do just what you said. If We know they did it just to ? Trick the Law. I hope that make sense.
I’m dsyexic and the right words are so hard to spell.
Report Post »computerdweller
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 3:00pmYou can’t become a citizen unless you pledge allegiance, so whats the problem with requiring a citizen to reaffirm that pledge. Aren’t you then renouncing your citizenship by refusing to pledge.
Maybe Senators that refuse to uphold the constitution after pledging to do so should have their citizenship revoked too.
Report Post »mintyfresh
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 10:49pmman, you guys certainly only like that constitution when it’s convenient! whose opinion sounds like that of communist russia now? i can’t handle the hypocrisy. especially hypocrisy with absolutely no insight.
Report Post »FreedomOfSpeech
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:16amLooks like we‘ve got another case that’s going to waste our tax dollars going to the Supreme Court.
Report Post »Eagle07
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:46pmI agree.Another free speech issue. And before the Obama supreme court
Report Post »MAULEMALL
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:16amAwesome….
Report Post »Bunk
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:15amSounds about right!
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:15amlol Good for him (the judge.)
Report Post »2
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:24amWe need 5000 more like Him and 15,000,000 Million people like Him.
GO JUDGE!
Report Post »VanGrungy
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 11:56amSo… You want a Judge that acts like a dictator?
What if the Judge told you to pat your head and rub your tummy at the same time, just because?
I guess you don’t see the problem with a Judge who gets off on power tripping…
Report Post »Libertyhight
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:06pmVangrungy has it righty you all. Though we probably all like the judge…we can’t let judges start doing this. What if the next judge says everyone has to recite the Communist Manifesto? You have to think of things from multiple angles to start to understand where we should be as a free country. That’s my opinion anyway, and if you don’t agree you are a racist homophobe that hates puppies.
Report Post »akamaikamaaina
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:11pmthe judge does not have the right to order the saying of the pledge of allegience, we are not required under law to do so.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:11pm@vangrungy – The judge asked that they recite the pledge of allegience not pat his head and rub his tummy. Why is pledging allegience to one’s country such a difficult thing unless the lawyer does not truly believe in this country?
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:15pm@libertyhight and vangrungy – We also require those that testify to give an oath. Do we stop requiring the oath to “tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth”?
Report Post »solaveritas
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:39pmTHE JUDGE IS WRONG. Our law cannot force expressions of allegiance to ANYTHING in this country. We are free citizens. Allegiance to our flag (or God for that matter) is worthless if it is forced.
The Judge will be liable for abuse of legal process and violation of the attorney’s rights, plus he may be liable for any damage suffered by the attorney’s clients when the attorney could not appear for them.
The judge is in a very trusted and powerful position where we cannot tolerate any such abuse, especially abuse that deprives someone of their liberty. Impeachment should be considered.
Let us see if the State Bar Association wades in and censures him for violation of judicial conduct. I practiced law in the Midwest, and this is NOT how we administer law and serve the public!!!
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:48pmPajamash,
The oath is a whole other kettle of fish, and has nothing to do with the Pledge and Allegience, so quit your sophistry. It seems like some of you folks are all for the government telling people what they have to say, as long as it is what you want to hear. How hypocritical.
In my opinion, this judge should be suspended for his arbitrary abuse of power. The Pledge is all fine and good, but I side with the lawyer–it is insulting to be coerced into saying it, as if one’s patriotism is automatically in doubt.
arx
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 12:54pmIf some dirtball lawyer doesn’t have enough decency or respect for this country to stand up and say it, then there is a problem that needs to be addressed. We’ve gone so far in this country to say that anyone can do (or not do) whatever in the heck they want..to the extreme to where even the country and flag be damned. Enough I say. You love this country and want to live here? You show respect for the flag and our country. If not, get out. Good on the judge.
Question for the lawer: why won’t you say it? Are you a traitor? Do you hate the republic? Do you hate the idea of liberty and justice for all? We as Americans had better start standing up for America, like every craphole country on earth does for themselves, or we will completely lose what is left of our national identity. Only in America can you burn the flag, spit on soldiers’ funerals, and refuse to pledge allegiance, and then go home and enjoy the benefits of living here. Try that in ANY other country on earth (besides maybe France) and watch what happens.
And don’t give me that “freedom of speech” or “tyranny” stuff. If a man finds it tyrannical to say he stands by the USA, then he has no business being here, and has no rights to which the country affords. We shouldn’t even have to discuss this. 50 years ago this turkey would have been disbarred. This is only the result of too many people for too long not standing up for the USA, and being brainwashed into believing that somehow an individual ‘right’ to be a first class ***** somehow trumps the country. ENOUGH!
VanGrungy
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:00pmARX,
I empathize with you… but our Founders did not envision dictatorial Judges.. No matter what the sentiment…
Report Post »karij
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:12pmPersonally, I get a warm and fuzzy feeling when reciting the Pledge. My heart swells with pride and I get tears in my eyes. My parents taught me love and respect for my country. While I don’t believe the attorney should be forced to say the Pledge, I have grown intolerant of people who do not feel the same way about America that I do. Instead of jailing him, I wish the judge had just given him a one way bus ticket to the country of his choice. And that goes for all people who show contempt for America, citizens or not. GTFO!
Report Post »arx
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:18pmVangrungy, it is not dictatorial to tell a man to show respect to the country. He wasn’t asking him to forfeit his freedom, money, or property…simply affirm his respect to our country which is appropriate. Our founders also did not envision the utter contempt and disrespect. My bet is that the men who fought at valley forge would have put a musket ball in anyone who refused to show respect to the new nation. Tar and feather at the very least.
Report Post »Miami
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:23pmLibertyhight
Last I checked we are not a communist country,… at least not yet. Thus the manifesto is not relevant but our pledge is
I pledge allegiance,
To the flag of the United States of America and the Republic for which it stands,
One Nation under GOD,
invisible,
with Liberty and Justice for All.
Far to many in the legal class have forgotten these principles and have taken a progressive interpretation of our values. Literally rewriting our laws judicially. A fresh reminder from time to tome can be a healthy prescription to our ailing state.
Report Post »josie
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:29pmBRAVO, to the judge
Report Post »fathers_thought
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:41pmAn attorney is a sworn officer of the court of which he is a bar member.
Report Post »If he refuses to swear aliegence to the country, then he should not be practicing law in it.
He is sworn to the laws of the land.
He should be disbarred.
rick
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:43pmExactly !!!!!! Good for him ( the judge )
Report Post »VanGrungy
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:44pmDoes one have to be an American Citizen to be a Lawyer?
What if the Lawyer was not American by choice, here legally (no shenanigans)?
Do you force a foreigner to Pledge ALLEGIANCE to America?
It is not ok for a Judge to be PARTIAL to America in such a blatantly UNCONSTITUTIONAL way…
Here’s my comment from the bottom of the page…
==================
“Saying” and “Dictating Actions” are two different things…
What the Judge did was to decide that the Court Procedures are a ‘living’ document, proceeding to force an UNCONSTITUTIONAL change that would not be enacted legislatively by our elected representatives.
What if a non-American citizen, just actually visiting, were to be present in the court room. Would you expect a non-American to join in on a pledge that they didn’t believe?
What does it say about our Justice Systems when this kind of blatant favoritism is shown by a supposedly IMPARTIAL Judge? Would the Judge send a foreigner to jail for not reciting the American Pledge of ALLEGIANCE?
===========
The Judges may CHASTISE all they want, but they can’t force anybody to do things that have ZERO relevance to COURT ROOM PROCEEDINGS
Get it?
Report Post »shotgun
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 1:47pmBAD JUDGE!!! What kind of people would agree with this??? Communists?
Report Post »dpcwollmann
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 2:32pmHow dare this lawyer insult the Reich!
Report Post »5
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 2:33pmGallup Finds U.S. Unemployment at 10.1% in September. The Obama Administration manipulated the numbers to show them under 10% at 9.8%.
If 36% of Whites back Obama still and 91.9% of Blacks do WHO ARE THE RACIST?
P.S. Shotgun is a Libterd and Moron.
Report Post »Prospero
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 2:48pmPubliusPencildick writes: “How hypocritical.”
Heh heh heh! Uh, Pencildick, out here in the world of functioning brains we don’t conflate “inconsistent” with “hypocritical”. Just thought I’d bring you up to speed….
Report Post »NotWaiting4Godot
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 3:06pmMaybe he can just say that other pledge? You know, the one that ends with a song. They go like this:
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
He said we all must lend a hand
To make this country strong again
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
He said we must be fair today
Equal work means equal pay,
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
He said we all must take a stand
To make sure everyone gets a chance
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
He said red, yellow, black or white
All are equal in his sight
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
Yes!
Mmm, mmm, mmm,
Barack Hussein Obama
Hello Mr. President
We honor you today
For all your great accomplishments,
We all must say hooray
Hooray Mr. President
You are number one
The first black American
To lead this nation
Hooray Mr. President
We honor your big plans
To make this nation’s economy
Number one again
Hooray Mr. President
We’re really proud of you
And stand for all Americans
Under the great red, white and blue
… So here’s a hearty hip-hooray …
Hip hip hooray!
Report Post »Hip hip hooray!
Hip hip hooray!
orkydorky
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 3:44pmVanGrungy……………………………Judges have the right to run their own court rooms any way they like, if they want you to stand on your head and recite little bow peep, my advice is to do it! This has to do with dis-respecting the judge and his court than anything!
Report Post »mark1123
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 3:58pmARX – I could not have said that any better. God bless America.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 8:00pm“My bet is that the men who fought at valley forge would have put a musket ball in anyone who refused to show respect to the new nation.”
Arx,
Sorry pal. No one fought at Valley Forge. That’s where the Continental Army camped for the winter. It makes you look really stupid when you mess something like this up, but that isn’t terribly surprising, based on your equally stupid take on individual rights. Yes, we do have rights, and no, judges cannot arbitrarily order us to recite pledges or poems or whatever else.
By the way–the Germans did not bomb Pearl Harbor, just in case that was confusing to you.
Prospero,
Report Post »It is not just inconsistent to carry on about the Constitution day and night and then turn around and say that the government has the right to coerce people into saying what you want them to say. It’s downright hypocritical. Although, this is kind of an inconsequential point to argue. Is it much better to be “inconsistent” when it comes to individual rights?
arx
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 9:13pmGosh Publius…Impressive how quickly you were able to google valley forge and state that no battle was fought there, although I’ll bet the men who suffered through it would call it a battle. In any case, it makes a nice cover for your lack of an actual response to my posts. Can you spell arrogant, condescending, prickly pear?
Alan
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 9:15pmI wish I could remember the quote exactly, but their is one that says something like,
When we seek to destroy the freedoms of our enemies, we will wake up one day to find our freedoms are no longer there.
Essentially, I am proud that the judge asks everyone to say the pledge of allegiance, but you can not force them to say it, it is no better then those who take the Pledge out of our schools.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on October 7, 2010 at 10:17pmSure Arx. They fought the weather. I‘m sure that’s what you meant. As far as responding to your post, I’m not entirely sure how one could respond to your suggestion that a Continental soldier would shoot someone for not obeying an arbitrary command from someone not in the least empowered to give it. You’re probably right–the colonials loved abuses of power. That’s why they enjoyed British colonialism so much!
Report Post »Frankly, that’s a whole lot of hot air, and any idea of patriotism based on such hot air is equally empty.
cropyehrlich
Posted on October 8, 2010 at 12:00amAs far as it goes for power in his court room you do as he says. Now outside of his court room if he asked for you to say the pledge then you don‘t have to but inside it’s his court do as he says. If you don‘t have to do as the judge says what’s then to stop a person from keeping on shouting and talking and yelling while the judge calls for order.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on October 8, 2010 at 2:55amOkay, let’s get this straight. You want a judge to be able to imprison a person for not reciting the pledge of allegiance. I want to make sure that you know that the “pledge” while considered by many to be a good thing, arose from the post civil war era and was written by a man with strong ties to socialism. I used to recite the pledge of allegiance everyday at school, and now that I am older and realize that I was actually being passively denied my individual right to the freedom of association by pledging loyalty to a nation that I was only beginning to understand, I’m not moved by it so much as my own feeling of loyalty and kinship. Don’t get me wrong, I love my country and would fight for it beside ANY citizen any day of the week, but it is because this nation is not about control that I would do it. The moment that the government tries to tell you what you have to do (as opposed to what you can’t do, like kill, rape, and steal) they are stepping out of bounds. The purpose of government is to allow people to live together in peace, not enforce arbitrary rules with real consequences. The judge should be charged $1,000 an hour for holding the attorney for the waste of his time.
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