‘Moses Shaped America’: Despite the Naysayers…America Really Is a Judeo-Christian Nation
- Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:23am by
Tiffany Gabbay
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On his Thursday evening program, Glenn Beck welcomed Tim Ballard, historian and author of a new book detailing how the Founding Fathers were spiritually moved to created the United States based on Biblical prophecy — particularly as it relates to the ancient Hebrews. “The Covenant: America’s Sacred and Immutable Connection to Ancient Israel” is a book that will likely prove a fascinating read for both history-buffs and faith-keepers alike.
(Related: What Does Author Tim Ballard Say Americans Must Do to Save This Nation?)
Beck and Ballard discussed the importance faith had on the Founders and delved into the spirituality that guided them in their quest to establish a more perfect union:
Whether one believes in the more mystical elements of Ballard’s work, it raises awareness of a subject all-too prevalent in American life today.
America as a Judeo-Christian nation
A familiar narrative among those who refuse to accept that religion played a role in the nation’s founding, or who seek to scrub all reference to “God” from view, is that the United States was founded not by Christians, but by “deists“; not upon the Judeo-Christian ethic or tenets of the Bible itself, but rather on some idea of “pluralism” divined from thin air.
These naysayers typically assert that religious influence is “nowhere to be found” in the nation’s founding documents, nor in the framework of America’s government and legal system. Not even a depiction of Moses carrying two tablets of the Ten Commandements displayed in the highest court in the land is enough to prove to secularists that Judeo-Christianity has always been an integral part of the United States.
If you notice, Moses is not relegated to some inconspicuous corner of the frieze, but takes center stage on the East facade of the Supreme Court building
In fact, some argue that it is because the Founders were faith-keepers navigated by their religious beliefs and scriptures, that they desired to create a land where men would be considered equal, and, equally free.
It is a well established fact that the 55 delegates to the 1787 Constitutional Convention were of the Christian faith, in some denomination or other. Often, secularists hinge their argument solely on the two who broke the mould: Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin, both of whom had moments in which they embraced more unorthodox views of organized religion. The left chooses to label this occasional unconventionality “deism” in order to negate the importance Christianity, and moreover, the moral philosophies of Jesus Christ played in their lives, respectively. Since Jefferson and Franklin serve as the the lynchpins of atheists’ argument, those are the two we will focus on. Also, since there are a series of unconfirmed quotes often attributed to both Franklin and Jefferson when debating the subject, this article will only focus on those hard-and-fast statements which are historically documented.
The influence of ancient Israel on the nation’s Founders
The Protestant Reformation viewed the historic plight of the Jewish people as their own, and viewed their escape from the oppressive King James in much the same way as the ancient Hebrews fled Pharaoh.
Faith author Bruce Feiler, in a piece titled, “How Moses Shaped America,” wrote that while on the Atlantic, the Pilgrims claimed their journey was as important as “Moses and the Israelites when they went out of Egypt.” When they arrived in Cape Cod, they “thanked God for letting them pass through their fiery Red Sea,” he wrote. After shuffling off the coils of bondage, the Israelites experienced a spell of lawlessness that would only come to a conclusion with the receiving of the Ten Commandments.
Likewise, George Washington oversaw the drafting of the Constitution and recognized the parallel. Feiler notes that two-thirds of the eulogies recited for Washington after his death compared the “leader and father of the American nation” to the “first conductor of the Jewish nation.”
In fact, Thanksgiving, which was first observed in 1621, was intended as a “day of atonement.” In other words, the Pilgrims sought their Thanksgiving to mirror the Jewish High Holy Day, Yom Kippur.
In “The Bible and Civilization,” Gabriel Sivan wrote:
“No Christian community in history identified more with the People of the Book than did the early settlers of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, who believed their own lives to be a literal reenactment of the Biblical drama of the Hebrew nation … these émigré Puritans dramatized their own situation as the righteous remnant of the Church corrupted by the ‘Babylonian woe,’ and saw themselves as instruments of Divine Providence, a people chosen to build their new commonwealth on the Covenant entered into at Mount Sinai.”
Jefferson’s faith also engendered an affinity for the Jewish people, whom he saw as kindred spirits with the earliest American settlers. Those who have studied American history might know that one of the earliest designs for the official Seal of the United States, submitted by Jefferson, Franklin, and John Adams, depicted the Moses leading the Israelites across the Red Sea while Pharaoh was engulfed in the water. While a different seal was chosen, the Liberty Bell bears an inscription from Leviticus 25:10 (Old Testament): ”And Proclaim Freedom Throughout The Land Unto All the Inhabitants Thereof.”
And as The Blaze noted, a recent episode of The Glenn Beck Program featured historian David Barton as he explained the true origins of the “Jefferson Bible” — proving again, the Founding Father’s reverence for the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
It is also widely documented that the Hebrew language was in fact a prerequisite for American
scholars of the day and was a compulsory subject at Ivy League’s Harvard and Yale. In fact, Yale’s insignia still bears the Hebrew phrase, Urim V’Thummim (oracle learning).
This happened as a result of the profound friendship shared between then-Yale president Reverend Ezra Stiles’ and Rabbi Haim Isaac Carigal. According to records, both he and Rabbi Carigal discussed Israel and the Jewish mysticism of the Kabbalah. So taken by their shared affinity for language was Stiles, that he improved his Hebrew to a degree where he was able to translate portions of the Old Testament into English and became the first professor of Semitics at the college (now university).
Thomas Jefferson
Jefferson, who openly identified himself as a Christian, was a lifelong and avid theologian who governed his local Episcopal church. He believed that God “gave us liberty“ and that that liberty could not be secure ”if we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God.”
Dear SirIn some of the delightful conversations with you in the evenings of 1798-99, and which
served as an anodyne to the afflictions of the crisis through which our country was then laboring, the Christian religion was sometimes our topic; and I then promised you that one day or other I would give you my views of it. They are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from that anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am indeed opposed, but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian, in the only sense in which he wished anyone to be: sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others, ascribing to himself every human excellence, and believing he never claimed any other.
In other words, Jefferson questioned, as wise men often do, and condemned the exploitation of the church by corrupt men. However, he was certain to differentiate between the organization and the doctrine; the church and the gospel, and never abandoned his faith nor his subscription to the moral philosophies not of Plato or Aristotle, but of Jesus Christ.He went on to tell Rush that he was confident the information he gleaned and was about to confide in him would “not be exposed to the malignant perversions of those who make every word from me a text for new misrepresentations and calumnies.”By the time this letter was written, Jefferson was already in his late-sixties, which nullifies any argument that his Christianity was manifest only in his younger, more “naive” days. It also serves as proof that, even after questioning, Jefferson’s faith remained steadfast.For his part, Rush also made no bones about the role the Old Testament played in America’s model of liberty:”The Old Testament is the best refutation that can be given to the divine right of kings, and the strongest argument that can be used in favor of the original and natural equality of all mankind.”In fact, Rush had even handwritten a personal Bible study-booklet titled, “References to Texts of Scriptures Related to Each Other Upon Particular Subjects.” WallBuilders website provides excerpts of the booklet, one of the images is featured below:
Benjamin Franklin
Like Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin was born an Episcopalian. While he, too, was more unconventional in his practice, Franklin deeply identified with and was committed to his Puritan roots and virtues. He was also an avid proponent of religion in general, believing it brought out the best in people and guided them to do right by their fellow man.
In the original manuscript of his speech for the Constitutional Convention of 1787, Franklin wrote:
“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel”
Franklin’s declaration flies in the face of true deism, which dictates that who or whatever the “divine” power is, it does not intervene in the natural world.
But his true beliefs on faith were perhaps best summarized in a letter he wrote to Stiles at the age of 85 — just one month prior to his death. It was his final and perhaps most poignant account detailing his “creed.”
Here is my Creed: I believe in one God, Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by his Providence. That he ought to be worshipped. That the most acceptable Service we can render to him, is doing Good to his other Children. That the Soul of Man is immortal, and will be treated with Justice in another Life respecting its Conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental Principles of all sound Religion, and I regard them as you do, in whatever Sect I meet with them.
He goes on to express in greater detail, his view on Jesus Christ”
As to Jesus of Nazareth, my Opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the System of Morals and his Religion as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw, or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupting Changes, and I have with most of the present Dissenters in England, some Doubts as to his Divinity: tho’ it is a Question I do not dogmatise upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an Opportunity of knowing the Truth with less Trouble.
Franklin went on to explain that he saw “no harm” in believing in the divinity of Jesus, as he surely had no proof to dictate otherwise, and maintained that such a belief would likely only serve as a positive within the community. He added that through the fortune of having been blessed with a long life, he believed in the world to come.
Admitting, like many faith-keepers likely have, to entertaining “some doubt“ is hardly the ”ah-ha, gotcha” moment secularists paint it to be. Regardless of the label placed on Franklin by either himself or those who have attempted to interpret his words and deeds, he was a man of faith and one guided by Judeo-Christianity.
The Seven Noahide Laws of Morality, or the Seven Laws of Noah, is a code of moral tenets set forth in the Talmud — or the “oral” Torah which explains how to interpret scriptures and apply the Laws. The Seven Laws are believed to have been given by God for the “children of Noah” (all of mankind). Judaism, states that even non-Jews who live according to the Seven Noahide Laws are regarded as a Righteous Gentile, and promised a place on “Olam Haba” — the world to come.
The Seven Laws of Noah were adopted by the earliest Pilgrims and were applied to their fledgling legal and societal frameworks. Even though it was not until 1991, the influence of these Biblical laws were even recognized by the United States Congress in the preamble to a bill that established Education Day in honor of Chabad Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson:
Whereas Congress recognizes the historical tradition of ethical values and principles which are the basis of civilized society and upon which our great Nation was founded; Whereas these ethical values and principles have been the bedrock of society from the dawn of civilization, when they were known as the Seven Noahide Laws.
But the Noahide Laws aren’t the only instances of Biblically applied tenets in the U.S. legal system. While there are many, certain guiding principles stand out: From Blue Laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol on Sunday (or the Sabbath Day) to forgiving debts after seven years, Judeo-Christian influence has had a long and enduring reach in American society.
For secularists, it is mainly through the absence of the word “God,” perhaps more than anything else, that serves as “divine proof” to secularists that religion held no sway in our nation’s founding. Yet, all of the United States’ individual State Constitutions do mention “God” or a “Creator” and some states even established official churches (like Massachusetts) and mandatory adoption of religion.
The Federal Constitution was written from the standpoint of Congress, whereas State Constitutions were written from the standpoint of the individual. One cannot dismiss the fact that individual state rights and power were of utmost importance to the Founders as their intention was for the Federal Government to have little interference in the self-governance of individual states. This is highlighted in the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
If secularists never bother to mention the clear references to “God” in State Constitutions, then what is to lead us to believe it would matter to them even if the word were specifically mentioned in the U.S. Constitution? Secularists claim that the absence of the word “God” is proof positive of “separation of church and state,” yet by that same token, there is no such reference to “separation of church and state” in the U.S. Constitution either.
The California State Constitution bears reference to "Almighty God"
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Comments (267)
Grace1798
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:29pmThing is these laws were given to the Jewish people ……there were no Christians were the law was handed out to the Jewish people. Even the Jewish people know this fact. Christ was the One Who came to deliver us all Jewish and Gentile from the condemnation of the Law. BUT……..remember when the Jews disobeyed God the were punished with a great punishment. !0 tribes went down to 2 tribes. Point is, they suffered many wars before Christ and after Christ because of disobedience to God and God’s Word and His Ways. Now judgment has come upon America because we’re doing the same thing.
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:18am@vox_populi
You have that wrong friend. Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah, an Israelite (a Jew from the tribe of Judah, in the line of David the King & legal heir to David’s throne – Mattityahu 1, Luke 3) said HE was above all faiths:
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moshe, “Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh [I AM WHO I AM],” and added, “Here is what to say to the people of Isra’el: ‘Ehyeh [I AM] has sent me to you.’ ”
John 8:24 Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM you will die in your sins.”
John 8:28 Yeshua said, “When you lift up the Son of Man [crucify], then you will know that I AM…
John 8:48-59 Then the Jews answered and said to Him … “Are You greater than our father Avraham, who is dead? … Who do You make Yourself out to be?” Yeshua answered, “… Your father Avraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw and was glad.”
Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Avraham?”
Yeshua said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Avraham was, I AM [Ehyeh].”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him…
John 14:6 Yeshua said, “I AM the Way, the Truth & the Life; NO MAN comes to the Father except through Me.”
So as long as Jesus Christ is NOT who He said He is (i.e. the “I AM” – Self Existent One, the Son of GOD, Emmanuel – God w/ us), then you (or “the jews”) have nothing to worry about & you can ignore anything Yeshua said.
Report Post »DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:43am@Grace
Report Post »Thing is, the Law was given to the “mixed multitude” that came out of Egypt. Your statements are profoundly erroneous. As far as no christians, there really never were any. There were Jews that believed in Yeshua as Messiah. Christians in the original language was a pejorative, not a sect. Christians are some of the worst people I have ever met. Just ahead of Jews like “Rabbi” Lapin, Beck’s buddy, who malign the character of Jews who accept Yeshua as Messiah.
soybomb315
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:51pmgood post.
I listened to Glenn’s radio show on thursday and it seems people have been trying to establish new Israel for a long time. I dont understand it – since after Christ we are all spiritual jews and incorporated into the flock
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:18pmYou guys know that this is why American Jews vote against you, right? Because of your constant insistence that Christianity dominate and sit privileged above all other potential faiths?
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:38pmMoses was not a Jew. Repeat the lie long enough and people believe that lie.
There is no such entity as ‘Judeo-Christian.’ It was a word that originally meant Jews that converted to Christianity. The term Judeo-Christian as used today was invented for political purposes by Jewish academics in the early 20th century as a means of obfuscation. America was founded on Christian principles, not Jewish principles. The Talmud and New Testament can not be brought together as one.
Report Post »Judeo-Islam is as moronic a concept as Judeo-Christian.
From Virginia
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:33pm@The Jerk – The Old and New Testament come together in one harmonious theme with no breaks or contradictions.
The Old Testament speaks of the hope of Christ. The Gospels speak of the days of Christs in the flesh on earth.The New Testament speaks to the age of Grace that we are now in until the end, which is Revelations.
Report Post »TomSawyer
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:05pmCould an all knowing God know that Christians would exist when he handed down the law to the Jews?
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:08pm@The_Jerk
“Moses was not a Jew.”
What exactly are you implying?
If you mean from a tribal affiliation, you’re correct. Moses was a Levite (David, as is Christ, is from the line of Judah – where we get the word “Jew”. However from a religious point of view at the time of Christ (as well as the commonly understood definition today), Moses – through whom God gave the Law (John 1:17) is the father of the “Jewish religion” & what the Jews of the day believed they were practicing. In that context your statement is hair splitting at best – Christ (as well as the Apostle Paul) contradict you .
Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, (2) saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. (3) Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
Philippians 3:2-9 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! For we are the [moyl covenant], who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [moyled] the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, THE TRIBE OF BENJAMIN, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; CONCERNING THE LAW, A PHARISEE;
Acts 21:39 But Paul said, “I AM a JEW from Tarsus, in Cilicia..”
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:13pm@The_Jerk
“Moses was not a Jew.”
What exactly are you implying?
If you mean from a tribal affiliation, you’re correct. Moses was a Levite (David, as is Christ, is from the line of Judah – where we get the word “Jew”. However from a religious point of view at the time of Christ (as well as the commonly understood definition today), Moses – through whom God gave the Law (John 1:17) is the father of the “Jewish religion” & what the Jews of the day believed they were practicing. In that context your statement is hair splitting at best – Christ (as well as the Apostle Paul) contradict you .
Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, (2) saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. (3) Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
Philippians 3:2-9 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! For we are the [flesh covenant], who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [blanked] the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, THE TRIBE OF BENJAMIN, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; CONCERNING THE LAW, A PHARISEE;
Acts 21:39 But Paul said, “I AM a JEW from Tarsus, in Cilicia..”
Report Post »adeleeeee
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 1:24am@Grace1798
I agree and disagree with you. Jews were condemned by G-d because of dissidence because G-d keep HIS promise curses HIS people and bless HIS people. However, Jews are still HIS people. G-d married them under the mount of Sinai just read Exodus 19 20. Remember Jesus is a Jew. Whoever touch Jews would equally touch on Jesus. I don’t want to go too much detail about this issue. You or all who would like to know more about the suffering of Jews you can listen to sermons from a Messianic Jew, Art Katz and David Pawson.
But I would like to point out that, 5 covenants through out the Bible
First Convent: Noahaic Covenant (G-d promises HE won’t judge the earth by flood) which affect all human being.
Second Convent: Abrahamic Covenant which affect Jews and Gentile, of course.
Third Convent: Mosaic Convent which affect Jews ONLY.
Fourth Convent: Davdic Convent which affect… I think Jews mainly but Gentile do as well. It makes sure the Messiah is a JEW.
Fifth Convent: Messianic Convent which affect EVERYONE!
Now it rounds down Jews won‘t be saved if they don’t believe Jesus.
Jew violates the Third Convent with G-d so they suffer. But keep in mind, I consider Jews are the sample of human that G-d demonstrate how HE treats us if we do not obey HIM with 100% confidence level. That is, Christians never ever think we are living in a grace period! Jews‘ suffering history will be our future if we don’t get our faith straight!
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 5:16amDon’t listen to the Paulists. They finally outed themselves as Israel and Jew haters. No surprise there. Please don’t go to their links. Their videos are packed with subliminal anti-Israel propaganda.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 8:17am@LUKE21
From the Time of Joseph in Egypt; From the Time that Jacob gave the BirthRight Blessing, and Title Israel, to Ephraim the son of Joseph… via the Crossed Arms in the Sign of the Cross… The Tribe of Ephraim, In Egypt, the Exodus, and the Promised Land… where the Royal Lineage of Kings & head of the House of Joseph (the Military)… wher in the Exodus, Joshua, ruled… but Moses provided Law.
If Fact… both Moses & Joshua… go to the Mountain to receive the 10 Commandments!
The House of Joseph consisted of the Tribes of Ephraim, Manassah, & Benjamin… which become intermixed… where Saul is the First King, and of Benjamin… and David marries Saul’s Daughter, keeps her imprisoned, in order to claim the Kingship.
Christ (named Joshua ben Joseph)… must be of the Lineage of the House of Joseph… in order to claim Kingship and to be the Messiah! Hence, Christ first comes from Nazareth of Samaria (Old Israel)… being a presentation that He is not of the Tribe of Judah, nor a Jew, nor a Worshipper at the Temple of Jerusalem… and He calls Himself Teacher/Rabbi as an OutSider of the Temple!
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:07amTo tie this into mormanism is garbage (sorry) . This has to do with the scriptures … nothing more. If Beck, who I really do like does ALL his thinking and tying together (conspiracies) like he does this, then he is not so right about a bunch more “stuff”. This is causing me concern and a revaluation of my “following ” of his words and purpose ,which at times I. have wondered about.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:23amIn Biblical Text… King Solomon banishes Jeroboam, the Head of the House of Joseph… and he goes to Egypt for Exile. In Ancient Egyptian, the Egyptians claim Israel is a Tribute Land… because Jeroboam at the death of Solomon forms the Nothern Kingdom, called Israel. While in the South, the Egyptians attack the Kingdom of Judah (Rehoboam), loot the Temple of Jerusalem… and at which time the Ark of the Covenant disappears!
Simply, if you look for it: the House of Joseph of Egypt is the Power behind the Throne!
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:46amyo Dtom;
Are satanists some of the best people you know?
Report Post »Luke21
Posted on May 22, 2012 at 9:12am@lukerw,
Can you give scriptural references (Book, chptr, vrs) for your statements (other than “the text says”)? Your own words say it best:
“If Fact… both Moses &…”
The problem: what you espouse is NOT fact, not in this reality anyway. From Scripture:
The Christ had to be:
1) God w/ us (Immanuel) in human form (born of a virgin) – Isaiah 7 (see vs 14). Confirmed in Matthew 1:23.
2) Of the Lineage & house of David (a decedent of Judah – Ruth 4:17-22; Genesis 38:29 & 46:12 – confirmed in Matthew 1 & Luke 3), & His Kingdom will be an everlasting one (forever) – 2 Samuel 7 (see vs 11 – 16)
3) Concerning the Messiah in Jacob’s prophecy (Genesis 49) it was given to Judah
“Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise; Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies; Your father’s children shall bow down before you [<sign of worship or royalty]. Judah is a lion's whelp; From the prey, my son, you have gone up. He bows down, he lies down as a lion; And as a lion, who shall rouse him? The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor a lawgiver from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes [<a messianic reference]; And to Him shall be the obedience of the people. Binding his donkey to the vine, And his donkey's colt to the choice vine, He washed his garments in wine, And his clothes in the blood of grapes. His eyes are darker than wine, And his teeth whiter than milk. (Genesis 49:8-12)
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:28pmSuppose I wanted a High-Pay Sinecure, so I decided to start selling contracts between God&Man… or Devil&Man. People, being blinded-by-Beck, would NOT SEE that whereas I GET MONEY (MOO-HA-HA) to sell the contract, Rube-BeckBots would expect God or the Devil to perform the contract! (MOO-HA-HA!)
For $22.49 I could sell a Devil-Contract to someRube promising them opposite gender happiness!
For $22.49 I could sell a God-Contracto to someRube promising them a good job.
For $22.49 I could sell a Ministry-God-Contract to someRube promising them 1,000-fold blessings!
For $22.49 I could sell a God-USA-Israel Contract to someRube promising bi-national blessings!
For $22.49 I could sell a Devil-Contract to some SomeRube promising undetectable bank robberies!
For $22.49 I could sell a God-USA-CovenantBOOK to SomeRubes (via Amazon) promising rainbows!
The point: I have FURTHER BLINDED the rubes by hucksterism that never fails to blinker!
Undetected is that I am burdening God (or the Devil) will (never me!) perform. (Wink: MOO-HA!)
Or, somehow I could sell a thing called In That Day Teachings… wherein blinkered, blinded, easily penned, easily sheared, easily conned sheep LEARN TO DETECT RUBE-A-CONS!
America is corrupted by corruption that’s legal. To sell USA-God-Contract huckster-books as a solution to American decline… is legal, but nevertheless CORRUPT!
Corrupt Things cannot fix Corrupt Things, but SIGHT fixes DARKNESS!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:50pmIf you cannot Faith in the Golden Rule as Law, then, you should be a Jew or Muslim; If you cannot Faith in Capitalism, then, you should move to a Socialist Nation!
Report Post »therockczar
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:10pmLIGHT fixes darkness, you moron!
Report Post »jcldwl
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:36pmThe lesson of this guys post is. Don’t post comments while high.
Report Post »utilityman211
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:19pmUpon reading these comments and after careful consideration, I have come to the conclusion that the forces of darkness that are currently enveloping this land are winning the battle for the soul of this country. Christians cannot even agree on the most basic tenants of theological Canon. Even the Nicene and Apostle’s Creed do not seem to bind our cloth together with a common thread. Picking at loose threads will cause the entire cloth to unravel. We must begin the work that binds all threads back together again.
With all of the disparate views on Christianity, how can we be expected to save this God-given nation if we cannot even agree completely on how to save our own soul? Find the commonality between the various denominations. It is there for all find. Trust in God to show us the way as we travel down this long road together.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:31pmWhat desparate views are you talking about. The only desparate views I see come from Atheist and Islam. Other than that, everyone else is normal.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:46pmWe are Humans, a Predator Species… Not Robots — We were not designed to Agree… unless something is obvious; We agree GOD exists and Christ is the Messiah!
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:52pmThere is no discrepancy with the beautitudes..is there?..as long as one believes that Jesus/Yeshua Son of God came to earth..was born of a virgin..perfect and sinless..that he showed us how to live..(the beautitudes do that nicely in His sermon on the Mound) and we realize that He took all of our sins to the cross with Him..and died for us..and was resurrected the third day..and went to heaven to take His seat at the right hand of the Father..providing us with the way to salvation..what more could we ask? He never promised that we would not go into slavery..he did say to forgive our enemies, to love them and do good to those who persecute us…
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:57pmMention “Judeo-Christian” nation and the atheistic trolls are drawn in like a moth to flame. You‘ll note that it’s mostly the same people, very few minority. I guess they have nothing better to do on a Sunday…which is a traditional Judeo-Christian day off from work…But don’t tell the atheists that..they might complain.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:01pmThank you LukerW for making it simple for him.
Yes, there are people within the different denominations that will pick fights with other denominations. They don‘t see that if we’re fighting each other, we can’t also be protecting ourselves from the secularists. Once they take a step back and realize that our core beliefs are the same (Jesus Christ is our saviour and we believe in God) and that only our practices differ, then we stop fighting and start protecting ourselves.
Report Post »utilityman211
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:01pm@COFEMALE Sorry for the confusion. . .
Disparate: “containing or made up of fundamentally different and often incongruous elements”
Report Post »– Merriam-Webster
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:05pm@ashestoahes
Report Post »Yeah, if you believe all that.
Trouble is not everyone does.
ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:11pmCofeMale … with respect, please check definition of disparate v. desperate.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:13pm@ASHES…
Report Post »An Understanding of Christ’s Action, Deeds, and Words… allows the vision of what is Perfect… and, at least for me, Impossible!
ConservativeCanucklehead
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:14pmLUKERW “… we were not designed to agree”. I sincerely disagree about what you claim is “obvious”.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:20pm@MACRAPPY..Yes..I know..but He also said that the road to heaven is narrow..and few will find it..and that the road to hell is wide..so even though it saddens me to know that there are those who will not find it..think of how it must sadden God..It has been said that when a sinner finds Christ and repents..turning away from his sins..that the angels rejoice…Nothing makes me happier when I see a muslim who has done that.. talk about oppression..those people who are a very devout people..have been lied to and had the truth kept from them…all in the name of politics..and material gain for their leaders…their very souls are being sacrificed..At least we have had the opportunity to know Christ without oppression..
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:32pmGood post! I understand what you’re saying completely and have been troubled by the problem for quite a while. I have no hope for America because Christians are as much a part of the problem as the secularists and atheists. Guess that is one reason why the redeemed are refered to as “the remnant”. Many will fall away and many will never come into the full knowledge of the truth. It is a very depressing time in history and yet joyfull in that we see “the time of the end” is near.
Report Post »God help us!
From Virginia
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:45pm@Ashestoashes – Yes – the road is narrow. There is only one way to become a Christian.One.
That is to BELIEVE that Christ was the Son of God and that He gave His life for our sins. Then you must accept (CHOOSE) the gift of salvation and accept (CHOOSE) Christ as yor Lord and Savior.
God made thisver simple. Man has muddled to the waters with sin and works – all of which have their place, but in BECOMING a Christian (born again) the answer is very simple. BELIEVE and ACCEPT.
Report Post »texasbeta
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 5:50pmChristians have NEVER agreed with each other. At the first council even, Nicea, as you mention, Origin was branded has a heretic and murdered, along with his followers for disagreeing with the pervasive ideas of the moment. Every moment in history from the first establishment of a state religion of Christianity resulted in deaths of those who believed slightly differently…even James, the brother of Jesus had a group of Christians…which the first church murdered for disagreeing.
Report Post »Even in this nation…Puritans murdered Quakers. Puritans murdered everyone really I guess. Baptists and Pentacostals murdered Mormons.
You people don’t even get it…are you aware what a HUGE factor this idea that God inspired the Constitution is in the Mormon church? It goes along with the Indians being descendants of a single family from Israel (despite all DNA evidence), the Garden of Eden being in Jackson, MO, etc. Beck has been doing this for several years, and you eat it up, without even knowing it. Call them a cult all you want….you are slowly adopting their beliefs, and don’t even know it. Ask Glenn about the Great Apostasy. BTW – That’s you.
capelady
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 9:16pmIf Peter and Paul disagreed, I think it is illogical to expect Christians to agree on everything almost two thousand years later.
What I find sad is that Jesus left us with a simple and loving Gospel message of love and grace, but the nature of men makes it impossible to be satisfied with that and we have to complicate everything. Carnality creates all the issues, and they result in splits and denominations. There is only ONE Christ, and there is only one CHURCH. It is the full and complete body of Christ, not a building or denomination, and if believers could get that right there would be less contention.
And America was built on Judeo-Christian values. That is not a reference to Messianic Christians, it is a reference to the Jewish roots of Christianity. Christians who refuse to recognize the proper place of the Jewish people and Israel in scripture are either misinformed, or anti-Semitic.
Report Post »fbanta
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:04pmThe way to restore America is to restore Constitutional governance. According the Declaration of Independence, “…that governments are created by Men to secure those (unalienable) rights…”. If we consider what created the deficit, it was for matters not associated with ‘securing our unalienable rights’; but rather to purchase constituencies dependent on government for everyday living: a corruption of purpose.
The 10 Commandments-nothing could be more clear and understandable; but those chosen to support the religious training of the people wanted more authority and made innumerable alterations and fabrications to complicate that which already had been refined to it’s very essence before it was given to Moses
The Bible is the history of Human Nature. The Constitution created a government structured to inhibit the negatives of human nature: that delegated authority will be abused. Just as the Jewish priesthood perverted the 10 Commandments to enhance their own authority (yet don’t hold a candle to what the Catholic priesthood has done), politicians have trampled the Constitution to enhance their personal wealth and power.
America no longer has a representative government because only Special Interests can afford to influence Congress. If we don‘t break that loop we’ll not survive.
Report Post »utilityman211
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:06pm@TEXASBETA
Your claim seems to be that the LDS originated the idea that our nation was founded upon Divine Providence. If this is your position it appears to be flawed as being non-sequitur: The claim is irrelevant to the evidence as supplied by the author of this article, as well as from the writings and beliefs of many Founders during and after the Revolution. While not versed in much of LDS history, I do know that the visions of Joseph Smith began in the early 1820’s when he was a teenager. These visions post-dated the founding of our nation by at least 44 years, beginning in 1776. Could it not be more likely that the prevalent beliefs of our citizens at that time might have been more influential upon Smith and the later LDS than the reverse as you claim?
As for the reference to “You people don’t even get it…” such ad hominem attacks on those who may differ from your beliefs and offering a string of claims that amount to a false analogy does nothing to further your initial claim.
My simple proposition was: “Find the commonality between the various denominations.” That was the sole focus of my offering.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 8:21am@CONSERVATIVE…
Report Post »LOL :) Exactly!
sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:16pmThere’s a lot of “iffy” analysis here. There is a sculpture of Moses, but there were also sculptures and paintings of Greco-Roman mythological figures. “Lady Liberty” for example is based on the Roman goddess Libertas and “Lady Justice” based on Justitia. Art around that time was mainly allegorical and drew heavily from both pagan and Christian mythology, as well as history. While today there would be a lot of protest by the secular left around a sculpture of Moses on a building, around that time it wasn’t seen as any different than putting a pagan allegorical figure on a building.
I agree with the abstract proposition that the Enlightenment and thus the American experiment was shaped by a Christian world view, but I think some people are simplifying it too much to imply something that wasn’t true and leaving out a lot of context.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:53pmif you look at our money, and espcially our bils – you will find many references to paganism and occults. There are occasional “in God we trust” stuff but it is not a ringing endorsement
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:15pm@soybomb:
Oh I think they definitely were Christians, looked at the world through a Christian perspective… the point I’m making is more that people should be careful about looking at the past through the eyes of the present… using a sculpture of Moses then wouldn’t be seen as making a highly religious statement. They wanted to put a figure of a wise “lawgiver” on the building and Moses represented to them a figure of lawgiver. And its as simple as that.
Something like that more of a religious statement today just because religion is more controversial today and people who would use religious symbolism would try to make a point with it. Christian values, symbols, figures, were just uncontroversial at the time so people used them with less of a motive.
Report Post »lbk
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:12pmEpiscopalian-88 Presbyterian-30 Congregationalist-27 Quaker-7 Dutch Reformed-6 Lutheran-5 Catholic-3 Huglienot-3 Uniterian-3 Methodist-2 Calvinist-1. Of these Founding Fathers, 5 of them practiced Deism. Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Madison and Monroe.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:39pmDid you read the story? Franklin and Jefferson were not deist. That is a figment of your imagination and/or what you have been spoon fed by the atheist liberal progressive marxist socialist communist misguided ignorant left. Your utopia dreams will never come true; give it up. There are others more intelligent than you.
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:55pm@cofemale:
The quotes don’t contradict the idea they were deists. For Jefferson: a mistake atheists commonly make is to argue that deists weren’t Christians, but they were — they preferred Christian doctrine to other religions and attended church regularly, but interpreted it a little differently. For Franklin: his first quote is consistent with his belief in Providence, which he mentions in his second quote. Belief in providence and belief in miracles are two different things.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:03pmWashington was a Methodist. He was not a regular attendant of church, but he was a Methodist.
Report Post »soybomb315
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:06pmPure christianity of 1780 was a bit different than christianity today. People back then might not even recognize us as christians since the style and material is so much different. For instance, today we put the emphasis on Jesus’ resurection and grace while they put the emphasis on God the creator and providence
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:42pmGeorge Washington
“While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.”
“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”
“The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained”
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.”
“It is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favors.”
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:46pmJames Madison
“We have staked the whole future of the American civilization, not upon the power of the government (but) upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.”
Thomas Jefferson
3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence
“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event.”
–Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.
Addressed to William Canby in 1813
“ Of all systems of morality, ancient or modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus.”
“The God that gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time.”
“I hold the precepts of Jesus as delivered by Himself, to be the most pure, benevolent and sublime which have ever been preached to man….”
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:55pm@soybomb:
Yea and actually when speaking in a religious context people would more often refer to “Christ”, not “Jesus.“ When Jefferson addresses him as ”Jesus of Nazareth” its a dead giveaway that he’s talking about the historical person rather than Jesus in a theological sense.
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:02pmdeism
The belief, based solely on reason, in a God who created the universe and then abandoned it, assuming no control over life, exerting no influence on natural phenomena, and giving no supernatural revelation.
deist
a person who believes that God created the universe and then abandoned it
James Monroe
“When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgments for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good.”
–Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.
Doesn’t sound like a “deist” to me, if he thinks God “abandon” the world after He made it.
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:16pm@rationalman:
Putting aside the academic definitions you gave, the people who called themselves “deists” didn’t believe in miracles, and tried to refute the occurence of miracles, but they still believed in divine Providence and grace. At a time in which alchemy was losing favor to modern chemistry, they were likewise trying to “modernize” their religion and bring it in line with a modern view of the world, not abandon it.
Atheists always misinterpret what deists were about, religious people shouldn’t make the same mistake.
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 5:02pm@sickoftalking
Wish you would get ‘sickofposting’. Because you‘re nothing more than a troll trying to appear smart while you’re just being contentious and annoying.
Report Post »sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 5:32pm@rationalman:
What are you talking about? I’m just making a point. Jefferson and others like him rejected miracles that contradicted natural laws, and also believed that the morals in religion could also be discovered through reason. That’s what made them deists. Most deists were still pretty religious and talked in Christian language.
Report Post »Alphamax32
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:47pmthats untrue, and can be proven through their own words
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:25amYo sickoftalking:
Why don‘t you follow you’re own name and post the “words” of the “deists” and what they thought, instead of what you think they thought ?
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 4:09pmWrong. Deism implies the belief in a Divine Creator, but that that Being does NOT intervene in the affairs of mankind. The founding fathers ALL acknowledge the Providence and Guidance of an Almighty Being in the founding of this Nation. Deists resisted such notions. They weren’t deists.
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:07pmHow does the picture relate with this story?? Hello, is someone sleeping at the Blaze?? The picture on the main page is about the baby from Facebook… Sheesh!
Report Post »KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:05pmHey PappyMac… MacPappy this!
Your battle is with God, not those that post here.
Further, it appears satan is fueling your tank.
I am publicly asking all that pray to pray for this
individual that “it” will seek the Will of God in “its”
life and become as strong an advocate for the Kingdom to Come.
Amen.
PS – Hey PappyMac… MacPappy this too. You can’t stop us!
Report Post »Soon and very soon you will feel conviction and be changed!
Please keep in touch!
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:20pmSorry, you feel so threatened. I do not carry any ill will towards any posters here; I am simply stating my opinion to posters that offer thier opinion for feedback. That is why folks post here is it not. For feedback. You sir, what with all the animosity displayed are the one that appears to have a problem with what i post.
Report Post »I am not wanting to stop you from doing anything. My opinions are my own, brought about by a lifetime of reading, education, and experience.
My convictions have already changed; you see I was once a Christian, a real Christian; One that believed so much, I attended Bible College in Norfolk Va. I left said college after my studies convinced me that Christ was not the son of God, but rather a well spoken Rabbi.
Don’t wait up for my re-imergence as a Christian.
You should re-examine your Christian holdings, looking at the hate in your post. If I believed in your God, I would pray for your forgiveness.
Anyone that feels that prayer would help me see in a better light, please pray for me.
KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:35pmMacPappy…
You‘ve got the worse case I’ve seen lately. I would expect you to
feel hatred in love, especially under your current condition.
You may have left God, but HE hasn’t abandoned you. Nor will I.
Take steps today to face the change that is coming in your life my friend!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:53pmIf that happens, and I am old enough to know anything can happen; I will remember your post.
Report Post »KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:59pmWell said!
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 2:44pmMACPAPPY: He would have had to be more than a “well spoken rabbi” He would have had to be a complete nutcase who thought he was God. The woman at the well said she was waiting for the Messiah…..
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am He.” John 4:25-26
Just one example…the entire bible comes together over thousands of years and filled with miracles and prophecies…the bible in itself is a miracle. Maybe you didn’t do your homework or you have sin you want to hold on to?? It is sometimes hard to believe when something so wonderful and true slaps you in the face….even Paul had doubts…..and he hated Christians until God knocked him off his high horse…To God one day is as a thousand days in the face of eternity…I know my redeemer lives..it doesn’t matter if He comes back before I die…but He WILL be back:)
Report Post »qpwillie
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:02pmAmerica’s connection with Israel is more direct than most people know. The United States of America IS part of Israel. Not Jews but Israel. All Jews are Israelites but not all Israelites are Jews.
Jew = A member of the tribe of Judah.
The first time the word “Jew” appears in the king James Bible, the Jews were at war with Israel (2 Kings 16:5-6). .
Report Post »KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:07pmIn fact we are right in the middle of JERUSALEM.
Report Post »You see it right there in the middle……. USA.
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:25pmTrue, there are more Jews in New York than in Israil.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:32pm@ kingconnan
Report Post »What does that mean? At least when I post, few have any problem knowing what I am trying to say.
lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:35pmAfter Solomon… the Hebrew Promised land was divided… into 10 Tribes in the North, where Ephraim was Royal & Military Leader, from Egypt (son of Joseph) through the Exodus (Joshua) holding the Title Israel given by Jacob… and 2 Tribes in the South, dominated of Judah. So, Judah or the Jews were never of Israel.
Christ appears from Nazareth… then being in Samaria… but in Old Israel 700 years before! We are led to believe Christ is of the Royal Lineage of Kings of Israel… of the Tribe of Ephraim… and not of Judah, nor a Jew! So, in His life and at death… He referred to as a King!
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:48amAmerica is not a christian- judeo country, we don’t have Christian/Jewish religious law pushed on us to the degree Saudi Arabia has sharia law put on its citizens.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 8:56amPushed on you? No. Used to protect you? Yes.
Someone kills you or your family member, you use Judeo-Christian based laws against murder to prosecute them. Someone steals from you, you use Judeo-Christian based laws to prosecute them. The list goes on and on because those laws go back to the beginning of time.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:14pmThey said nation not country. A nation is defined by its members, heritage, and history amoung other things. A country is defined by the laws governing it.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:29pmEvery law we have is based on Judeo-Christian values written in the Bible. You can convince yourself otherwise to fit into your little world, but those with knowledge know differently. Considering 70 to 80% of the U. S. follows some type of religion, you might want to start educating yourself.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:40pmcofemale
Report Post »Not true at all. All laws in this nation are there to preserve the ablility for industry, and fiance to further its agenda. Laws are not based on religion, for if they were any lawyer would have a field day in court.
Now, there used to be laws based on religion, blue laws. Thank your God, those have been largely discounted. A nation ruled by a Christian religion would be as bad as a nation ruled by Sharia law; you would just agree with it, making it ok.
sickoftalking
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:33pm@macpappy:
I would disagree with you both to some degree. The whole concept of “natural law” used by Locke goes back to Hobbes which goes back to Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine; and is definitely, inherently influenced by a Christian view of the world. The ancient Greeks and Romans had no concept of natural law, Rome was based on a founding mythos about Romulus and Remus. But I would distinguish the “Christian world view / Christian natural philosophy / Christian ethics” from Christian doctrine and would not claim that Biblical law is encoded in the Constitution.
Report Post »Seede
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:51pmMACPAPPY–
I agree some what in your thought but my understanding has always been that the commandments actually came to us starting with Noah. There were seven laws given to Noah for our behavior. Those same seven laws of Noah were included in the ten laws given to the Hebrews under Moses. Those ten laws were later included in Jesus’ teachings. I believe all of the laws of human behavior are taught in one form or another by Jesus.
Now the difference between the seven laws of Noah and the ten laws of Moses and the teachings of Jesus is called the statutes or the punishments of breaking these laws. Good example is adultery. Moses took you out and killed you while Jesus forgave and yet condemned the continued practice. The same applies today in this culture. The command is there but the statute is altogether different. and varies. So, in understanding punishments and commands there has and probably always will be a basic set of rules and regulations to govern people.
To make a long story short, the commands came off the boat (if you believe the bible) long before there were Jews or Gentiles. Moses simply got his own set of rules because of the need. Maybe some day we won’t have to have a set of rules. I Hope.
Report Post »OldVet
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 4:42pmI wish one of you scholars would give me the exact scripture and verse that contains the seven noahide laws. I can’t seem to find it in my bible. And I don’t mean within the 10 comandments.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 4:54pm@oldvet
Report Post »The article itself said that it is Talmudic in origin.
JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 6:14pm@Seede: Jesus forgave the woman because the Pharisees were ready to stone her and do nothing to the man. The law applies equally to both. In fact, the law gave the option of stoning or payment. The Pharisees were testing Jesus to see how well he knew the law. He IS the law. So yes, he forgave her. He forgave her to send a message to the Pharisees that were continually preaching about how sinful everyone else was all the while they weren’t even living by the same book that they preached from. Hence why they also condemned Jesus for healing a sick man on the Sabbath. For them, it was all about works with no love or mercy.
Report Post »Seede
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 9:18pmOLDVET
The seven laws of Noah are not listed in the Hebrew Bible as the seven laws of Noah but are taught in outside Jewish sources.
Talmud – Mas. Sanhedrin 56a
Our Rabbis taught: seven precepts were the sons of Noah commanded: social laws;33 to refrain from blasphemy, idolatry; adultery; bloodshed; robbery; and eating flesh cut from a living animal.34– The seventh is not listed here but is known as “Adjudication” or the right to judge in these matters.
I believe they are also listed in the book of Jubilees. The common practice of the Hebrews,at that time, was to drink the blood of animals. This was also one of the reasons why they were required to bring the sacrifice to the priests who would then sprinkle the blood upon the alter. This bred the practice from their minds. They were heathens at this time.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:45amPETTYDRAMA
Report Post »Has a problem with Religion.
But to the subject at Hand
Neither Jesus Christ or Moses
had any Idea that America even Existed
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:51amThats because America did not exist then.
Report Post »db321
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:38pmHey Flipper – all you need to know is that the Bible says that before Christ return – every Nation will turn their back on Israel and will attack Israel. My faith is not in any Man, Country or False Profit. We can’t stop the attack that the Bible states is coming to Israel all we can do as Believers is Stand in Support for Israel.
The Bible also teaches us that when the dust settles – Israel will still be standing and that Jesus will set up his throne in Jerusalem.
I will march to the front of the line to get my head cut off for my for supporting Israel – my Eternity is not a part of this 80 or so years in this life – my eternity is with those that stand on the Word of God and with Israel. I did not vote for a Man that said he would turn his back on Israel, support Abortion, and promote Gay Marriage.
God Bless America, Israel and the Peace of Jerusalem.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:40pmThe Continent existed just no White Europeans
Report Post »here at the time.
What was America called before Europeans discovered it.
COFemale
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:50pmAmerica, the land, existed just nobody that we know traveled or lived there during Biblical times. There is still a lot to learn and be discovered. Don‘t say something didn’t exist.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:07pmOf course Jesus Christ knew about the area. But there was no reason to talk about it. Just like there was no reason to talk about Soviet Russia or China. He talked about accepting him in order to gain salvation. Why would he have talked about this future area where all men would be free when what was important was accepting him as saviour in order to go to Heaven?
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:42amIts hilarious reading the comments from the old and irrelevant religious people and their fairy tales about a man that supposedly parted a entire sea, that the first man and woman magically appeared on the planet out of thin air, and that a god created this planet in 7 days and 7 nights. I expect children to believe that kind of fantasy lore. But, most rational adults would let go of such childish stories. Just goes to show that not all humans can think for themselves. Luckily, religion is becoming more and more obsolete by the year.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:50amBut I’ll bet You believe in Man Made Global Warming !
Our believes are no Dumber than Yours.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:53amReligion will never go away. Some folks are always going to need to blame something else for the failures in life, and give credence to the bigotry that they hold to all that are different from them.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:54amyou mock what you have no concept of. I feel sorry for you and your closed angry hatefilled mind. hopefully one day you will experience the peace and knowledge that God brings
Report Post »KOCHLEFFEL
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:05pmI agree,Religion the universal obsessional neurosis of humanity!
Report Post »Blacktooth
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:06pmPetty,
You have it all figured out don’t you. You are a wise man, are you?
1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no one be seducing himself: If anyone among YOU thinks he is wise in this system of things, let him become a fool, that he may become wise. 19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God; for it is written: “He catches the wise in their own cunning.” 20 And again: “Jehovah knows that the reasonings of the wise men are futile.”
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:11pmI have read that when the non believer see the Savior they will be shocked.. and it is then they realize it is too late! I feel sorry for them!
Report Post »CommonSensei
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:20pmThe Noahide Laws go back farther than Moses and the Talmud. They go back to the time of Noah who followed Adam’s 6 laws plus added a law: To Establish Courts. For 7,000 years after the Flood, until a meteor hit the earth in 3123 BCE (recorded in Sumerian Planesphere Disk), civilization ran smoothly. There were no wars and the “bad guys (Hamites)” were kept in check. The archeology tells it all.
Israel National Radio Interview: http://www.marcrubin.com/judean-eve.ivnu
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:23pm“not all Humans can think for themselves”
Report Post »Very Elitist of you to say that. You believe your smarter than most people simply because that’s your opinion and use that as rationale to say that many people are incapable of making decisions. You probably believe you should have the right to make decisions for the rest of us. Unlike you, we actually believe in freedom. Your way of thinking, inspired by your oh so rational atheist way of thinking, was the same rationale used to justify slavery, imperialism, and genocide throughout history. Even the old Christian practice of torturing people into converting was based on the notion that people can’t be trusted to make decisions.
lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:11amAn IQ Pill is required: From the time of Abraham, through all the rest of the Bible, periods of Time actually match with Historical Dates… making the Bible as the First History Book.
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:27amAnd it all comes down to the individual, and what he or she will do with this Jesus person. Accept completely or deny completely. No middle ground on this choice. The entire Bible is a “Him” book and every Tom, Sally, Tim, and Susan has to decide where they wish to spend eternity. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:37amYou should worry about the here and now, as there is absolutely no evidence of a here after. Other than fables, that is.
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:05pmI don’t worry about anything; though I am concerned with your lack of understanding. Hope that changes.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:49pmI have a pretty good understanding, tho my understanding is based on fact, scientific law, reality, and what I can see and touch. My faith is backed up by these things.
Report Post »I understand that religious faith is something different, and I respect that. I meant no real critizisim, just moving around making friends.
TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:04pmNo problem, we all need to remember God created science so it starts and stops with Him. Very encouraging to sinners like me.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:19pmMACPAP
Report Post »So sad that your understanding is based on such limited information. To think that in one short life, what one can only see, touch, and even learn, qualifies one to claim greater understanding then the wisdom of the ages. Discount the spiritual, the miraculous, and things that pertain to the realm of the soul, is the very definition of unGodly. God functions within the realm of laws no less tangible then the laws of nature. The difference is that the breaking of natural law doesn’t carry an eternal consequence.
Your writings are just another example of the lawlessness that this world is sinking into. God‘s law is thrown away and then the oh so inevitable throwing off of man’s law occurs, as surely as night follows day.The Man of Lawlessness, Son of Perdition, Destroyer, seeker of whom he may steal and kill, revels in our lawlessness. Arrogance and pride are his first and most often used tools and they ring out clear and loud in our “we are the 99%” society, and sad to say, in your postings.
Macpap, In another posting you claim to have been turned off during a theology course in college. Another epic fail for when liberal theology is taught by non-Christians. Try letting the author of the book explain it to you. That would involve walking back your hurt and skepticism, and too much of what you think you understand, back to an earlier time. Way too far to walk probably.
Offended? Jesus said He would be a stone of stumbling and rock of offense.
bdandsl
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:22amAmen!
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:19amEven though Atheist will say they strive to be morally sound of itself..
They have no “real standard” to guide them or to hold them to it…
As we see this country slipping into more of a secularist country …
It doesn’t take great vision …to SEE ..
The “LESS” God is involved in guiding the lawmakers ..
The “MORE” laws that are needed and are put in the place
to constrict the people to be GOOD to their fellow man..
And its failing miserably …
No matter how many laws are put in place…
A country that has a Godless mind-set perpetuates …Godless Activity ..!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:35amOf course you are assuming that a godless nation is less than a one that believes in God. That is contestable, at least.
Report Post »Imagine no religon, ahhh what a peacefull, guilt free, nation that would be. No sin, just do unto other as the law requires and as you would have them do unto you.
You know the Muslims believe just as you do.
Greenwood
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:39am“For this is the covenant that I shall conclude with the house of Israel after those days,” is the utterance of Jehovah. “I will put my law within them, and in their heart I shall write it. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.” Jeremiah 31:33
Report Post »NineteenEighty4
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:10pmI take issue with your reasoning. I don‘t think it’s fair to say that people of no faith have no morals. To claim so is to deny the Golden Rule, a universal maxim of morality and ethics found in every culture throughout time. If you need a deity looking over your shoulder, judging every decision you make for you to be a good person, how moral are you? To be good to fellow man for it’s own sake, I argue, is far more ethical than being moral out of fear of punishment and eternal hellfire, if you believe in such things.
As for us becoming a “godless” country, I think you are grossly mistaken. As far as I know, there is only 1 openly atheist member of congress. So, tell me, who is making us a less moral country? Certainly not atheists, because there is only 1 of them in the entire Judicial, Legislative and Executive branches of our federal government. The men and women making our laws are, at least in public, people of faith. Look at how their faith is guiding them. When Bush attacked Iraq and incidentally killed hundreds of thousands of people, he said god told him to do it. I don’t want my elected leader, the most powerful individual in the world, hearing voices and actually doing what they say. But hey, your god works in mysterious ways, I’m told.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:12pm@macpappy
Ummm .WRONG…!
What a easy faith it would be…To be able to ACT on your emotions of hate..
Like the Muslim and to “kill” the infidel when offended.. or when someone doesn’t
believe MY way.
Not that anyone is giving you much attention on your ramblings..
Trying to get someone upset so you can turn around and say..
Oh look what a bad Christian you are..
You comments are ..what’s the word …oh I know.. Bigoted .
Your not HAPPY with someone just NOT imposing their beliefs on YOU.
It sounds to me ..that you want to convert the whole world to your belief…
OH…What a wonderful world it would BE ..
Report Post »If everyone… just believed the CULT… of …ME..ME..ME..!
Bruce P.
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:21pmThe notion that a people who are Christian will be inherently “good” is ridiculous in context of history. Consider the Crusades. Consider Manifest Destiny.
Unless you consider murder, rape and pillaging to be “Godly” acts.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:02pmGot your attention. Just because you say wrong and capitalize it does not make it so. Where is your argument to say I am wrong? Do you have an argument to show otherwise? It would seem that the “cult of me” is yours, not mine. I don’t try to convert, there is nothing to convert to. I am a non-believer of the whole God concept. you don’t convert to that……you become enlightened to it.
Report Post »What you precieve as knowledge is but blinders.
Once you accept yourself as the one responsible for your actions, and can no longer blame Satan or Christ, or Muhammad then such things as Hate go away.
sawbuck
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:21pm@NineteenEighty4
Report Post »Ther isn’t enough room for a reply and since you misunderstood my comment…
I’m not sure ANY clarification would help.
From Virginia
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:56pmVery true! Every nation that is Godless ends up killing their own people. USSR, China, etc……..Hundreds of millions of people – dead.
Report Post »INTHEBROTHERHOOD
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 7:44ampappy…..you may have understanding, but sir, it’s not coming from wisdom, I’m afraid your education has perpetuated doubt, then fear, then everything else associated with evil. Sir, your being decieved, and losing your salvation. The good news is, there’s still time to repent. So many of your posts fall just a little off from the truth, its hard to distinguish the fault. The devil is a master of deception, and he’s got you. Small example of your many…“do unto others” as the law requires. Wrong,,,It’s, love thy neighbor…(2) ” why did it take Christ by surprise?”….wrong again….My hour has not yet come….o yea..the last supper. I’m just sayin…seek a deliverence…repent…You wont understand any of this anyway, so……hold thy peace and come out of him…In Jesus name.
Report Post »Dismayed Veteran
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 1:57pmBruce P
Manifest Destiny as a concept was both relgious and racial. The inherent belief was that Anglo-Saxons of the Aryan Teutonic race were driven to go west and kill or enslave non-Aryans. The religion of the Anglo-Saxons was the primary religions of Protestantism. The belief in the racial superiority of white Aryans is what led to the utter defeat of Native Americans and the eventual creation of Imperial America. Manifest Destiny always looked westward. Once we subjugated the Indians, we turned our efforts toward the Pacific. We employed the Monroe Doctrine to make the Carribean an “American lake.”
Report Post »trinklefinder
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:10amChristians who listen and read Glenn Beck need to be careful. Glenn as you know is a Mormon and so are many of the books he reads and authors he promotes. Tim Ballard is a Mormon. Not to piss anyone of off but lets face it, Mormonism is a cult. If you want the truth on Mormonism type into a search engine “Hank Hanegraaff on Mormonism”. Hank Hanegraaff has a show on Christian talk radio called The Bible Answer Man. You can catch it on the BOTT radio network.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:25amThat is hilarious, of course Mormonism is a cult. They are all cults. That’s right, the Baptist, the Methodist, the Lutherans, the whoever; is a cult.
Report Post »A cult is a group of people who share religious or spiritual beliefs, especially beliefs regarded by others as misguided, unorthodox, extremist, or false.
As far as I can see they are all cults by definition. If you think your religion is not a cult, it is because you associate with other that believe as you do. Step outside that circle and you will find someone calling your religion a cult.
After all one Prophet is as good as another, right.
Abraham Young
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:26amSorry, Charlie, you know nothing of what you are talking about. Mormons are officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. You would do your self a favor to properly investigate it, rather than repeat the lies and distortions and deceptions of jealous competing religionists.
Jesus Christ is the center of Mormon worship, not an afterthought. There is no “cult” of Mormonism. Christ is the centerpiece, and Mormonism is the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ Himself.
Report Post »Greenwood
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:33am“If you want the truth ”
And do you know the real TRUTH ?
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:24pmWhat a pity you don’t do some real investigating! Ignorance is bliss for some and then others educate themselves.. the LDS is NOT a cult.. It is one of the fastest growing churches throughout the world… and these people have studied it before joining. They don’t mock or make up lies as the go along… We are Christian’s.. we are called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.. those who are educated about the church would know that! Mormon is the name of the book and a person in the book! The LDS church.. is big on humanitrianism.. have the own welfare system, adoption and foster care system, perpetual eduction fund.. to educate the poor in other countries. have many chapels and temples world wide.. dedicated to God! Tell me we are a cult…I feel sorry for you!
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:15pmAbraham Young – Relly? Becaus Mormons believe ta Christ and the devil are brothers. The also believe that whe they die they will be god of their own planets.
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:08amHere come the militant ahteists “ you supid sheeple and your sky god ” 1…2…3…
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:34amActually the most militant people are the religious ones trying to indoctrinate and convert everyone that doesnt believe in their god.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:41amMIlitant Athiest?
Report Post »I haven’t heard that one before. What is a militant athiest?
ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:43amYup, when I think of the Constitution, I think of Moses and the 10 commandments.
1st commandment “Thou shalt have no other God before me.”
Amendment 1 of the Constitution Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Second commandment “Thou shalt make no graven images.” Wait, divine censorship? Yup, so much for freedom of expression.
Third Commandment, “Thou shalt not take the LORD’s name in vain” Censorship again? Yup, there goes your freedom of speech.
Last I saw there was no law on the books about honoring my father and mother. I guess it really depends on how they treat me. If they beat me, should I still honor them?
“Thou shalt not covet?” Wait, thought crime and punishment? Are we now in the movie minority report?
But yup, it’s a Christian nation for sure.
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:27pmIt worked, 1 then 2 then 3 comments.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:27pm@pettydrama
Report Post »And you trying to convert us all to atheism is different how?
flipper1073
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:15pm@ PAPPY & PETTY
Report Post »No One is telling You what to Believe.
Believe whatever you like !
But you come on here an Mock Christians.
an Jews.
We’re not telling you what to believe
We’re telling you what we Believe !
it all comes down to FAITH
You either have it or you don’t
but I will not mock you for your lack of it.
Pontiac
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:30pm[And you trying to convert us all to atheism is different how?]
Did any atheist ever ask government to declare there is no such thing as god?
Do we ask government to print “In No god We Trust” on US currency?
Do ask government to imprison you for believing in god?
We don‘t ask government to do those any of those things namely because it’s equally unconstitutional for christians to do it.
It makes no difference if the founders were christian or if you call the US Judeo-Christian. No where in the constitution from the 1nd amendment, to the supremacy clause, to the 14th amendment, or to civil rights laws does the government have the authority or the right to declare any belief. “Individuals”, not the majority or the government, are given the right to worship or not to worship as they choose. The more godly you theocrats want to make government, the more you make government god.
http://atheism.about.com/od/tencommandments/a/americanlaw.htm
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:59amYo Pontiac;
If you did not read the last paragraph, I suggest you do so …
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 12:30pmWhat about it? Was “militant atheists” in the first comment not to mock or to antagonize atheist?
Apparently you completely missed the premise of my post. You theist tell us what to believe just as much as we atheist tell you what to believe. (individual to individual) Difference is we’re not asking GOVERNMENT to tell you what to believe. We’re simply wanting government to stop pandering to you rabid theocrats and your god complex.
Case in point, again… The pledge contains “One nation under god” inserted into the pledge by progressives. At no point do we ask government to change it to “One nation under no such thing as god”. How can one not be telling you what to believe and one be telling you what to believe? You can’t have it both ways. We want government to stop being your church and to stick to the business governing. Not placating whatever religion happens to be the majority.
http://tinyurl.com/o77vf8
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 8:53pmI really wish you would have said something true and worth responding to …
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on May 23, 2012 at 11:34am@4truth2all
Report Post »Uh oh, better call the Whambulance.
I know it‘s extremely difficult for you to justify government having a religious opinion but don’t blow off the facts as if you had actually won the argument. It is an overwhelming fact that our Government is not a church and has no constitutional authority to push any religious belief.
Mess23
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:02amBut Obama said we are not a Christian Nation. Sorry Glenn, the Founding Fathers are wrong about how this Nation was born. I think they voted present when this came up back then…
In all seriousness, this president is disgusting to try and rewrite history. Wake up America
Report Post »In That Day
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:58amThe problem with promoting this line of thought, which Trinity Broadcast Network has done for decades, is its fruit STINKS!
TBN’s “God-Covenant-USA” hucksters end up buying $30 million jets, getting DUIs, being unable to prevent scandalous implosions of morals, the WORKS. Why?
A covenant is like a contract. Let‘s look at a builder’s contract for a house. Party A agrees to build a house for $100,000. Party B agrees to buy house for that price. If either party fails to perform (build house… or pay for it) then the contract FORCES the errant party to perform, under penalty of law.
With God-Covenant-USA talk, who can today get God to perform? I can sell a book on God-Covenant-USA… You can believe in this covenant. But NO MAN can get God to perform, else that man would be God.
Prosperity shenanigan ministry uses this to gross evil effect. Send minister $1,000 and GAWD will return you $1 million in blessings! (But who can make God perform?)
It’s far better to look at Dr. Larry P. Arnn’s writings from Hillsdale College.
Maturity in understanding Natural Law will ACTUALLY FIX problems in the USA. (i.e. Legal Positivism giving bennies to factions STINKS, whereas Natural Law that would prevent positive racism and prevent discord and decline.)
To sell rubes a contract with God… is the shiller’s greatest temptation, is it not? It blinds sheep!
Warning sheep to not buy God-contract hucksterism, gives sheep sight!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:52amSo, the country was founded on Jewish law and with the freedom to believe what you want. In practicing this freedom, the Christian belief became as large as the Jewish belief. If anyone thinks a statue of Abraham is verifying the Christian belief in our land they are fooling themselves. Abraham was a Jewish figure in religious lore, not a Christian. Nothing that Abraham did in life or history, or even in religious fable verified or prophecied the coming of Christ. The ten commandments are Jewish law, not Christian. Even Christ followers stated a distinct difference in following Christ and the Rabbis of that time.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:10amSORRY: Abraham’s sacrifice of Isaac… Commanded by GOD; Halted by GOD… is interpreted as a Prophecy of Deed… where GOD gave Christ to complete the Sacrifice… thus, being the Perfect Sacrifice, ended all Sacrifice and the reason for the Jewish Temple.
Both sacrifices happen upon Mt Moriah; both men carry Wood to the Sacrifice; both say: Father, where for are you!
Report Post »Myresponse2010
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:20amI guess you never read the book of Romans in the Bible.
Report Post »acovenantinblood
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:23amActually, when God tested Abraham’s faith by asking him to sacrifice Isaac, which in itself was symbolic of Christ, after seeing Abraham’s faith God told him that in his lineage the whole world would be blessed. Christ was the blessing of Abraham’s lineage that He spoke of. Also, as far as Judaism and Christianity, in reality, neither exist. Their are just those, before Christ and after, who serve and follow the true Creator God and the Redemption through His Son. The Son that He prophesied would come when man fell in Genesis 3:15, for the seed of the woman was Christ and the serpent bruised His heel by sending Him to the Cross, yet Christ crushed his head by becoming the Redemption. does this mean that Adam and Eve were Jewish? that would make us all Jewish then because Eve was the mother of all people (Gen. 3:20). The Son and Redemption that all the Old Testament patriarchs looked forward too. The Son that was embraced by 12 Jewish disciples. The Son that was embraced by a Jewish Pharisee named Saul. Service to the Most High God does not come form the name Judaism or Christianity. Ever since Creation God has had His “Church” whatever form or people that took.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:50amYou are missing the forest for the trees. You see the reason Christ death, you call a sacrifice, seems to parellel Abrahams is because that is what the writers of the Christian bible did to affirm what they say. In other words they intentionally drew such lines.
Report Post »If Christ death was a sacrifice, then why did it take Christ by surprise? After all, it was he that asked God why he had forsaken him.
Christian followers followed Christ because he offered them a better way to sin. With the Jews, there was not forgiveness for sins, but this new religion allowed you to be as sinful as you would like to be, just as long as you paid homage to Christ at the end of the day. Pretty weak.
lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:16pm@MAC…
Christ praying in the Garden before arrest… knows all that will happen… and says to GOD: Not my Will, but YOUR Will be done.
In Theology, the Crucifixion results in the Completion of 10 Jewish, Tradional, Sacrifices… ending the reason for the Temple… where Christ prophecizes the Temple will be Destroyed… and where, later, the Romans actually destroy it!
Christ communes with GOD… saying as you see Me you see GOD. Christ is surprised by Nothing: GOD sees & knows All!
Sorry… Sin & Conversion at Death is a Blasphemy: the Covenant of Christ requires that you publicly Testify for and about Christ, in Truth… then, He will Testify for you (about your life) to GOD!
And, pets do not go Heaven, either!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:37pm@MACPAPPY
These people think a human sacrifice was necessary(and is moral) to cure humans from being born evil.
Christianity is a cult of human sacrifice, they’re just too blinded by their partisanship to realize it.
It’s human nature to take ones own history, put a silver bow around the good stuff, and disregard the bad stuff.
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:49pmThat is not very moderate, Moderation.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:04pm@MR.GOODVIBE
I see that you didn’t deny it.
You worship a human sacrifice
The only difference between a cult and a religion is its size.
Ergo, you are a very big cult that worships the sacrifice of a human on your behalf(I know i know, you believe he was both human and God, the ultimate paradoxical loop.)
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 8:29am@MODERATION…
Report Post »Christ ended All Sacrifice; There is No Sacrifice in Christianity… Judaism is frustrated, because they cannot do their Sacrifices at the Temple, and they want to Rebuild it… and Islam still performs Sacrifices, even Human, where a person is declared a Slave Sacrifice, and sold to be Killed!
4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 9:35amYo Mod:
Really! …. christianity is a belief where the sacrifice of humans is desired/ required/ commanded?
Report Post »What a foolish statement!
Please back this up with “proof” … I‘m sure if you do I’ll need to correct you with some real truth …
KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:49amI agree!
Report Post »Three cheers for Moses!
There should be a boulevard in every community named after Moses!
You know… like those in every town that glorify M L King, Jr.
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:59amI thought “Man Worship” was a sin.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:27amMoses… was to strike the Rock once… to bring forth the Water of Salvation… as a Prophecy of the Messiah… but struck it Twice… resulting in the 40 year Exile… and death of all but Two, one being Joshua, of the Tribe of Ephraim, titled Israel.
The Old Testament is Prophecy… especially Isaiah… of the Messiah and Fulfillment found in the New Testament.
Report Post »KingCanon
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:36amHonor not Worship.
Report Post »Just as the Honor Moses presents from God in the Ten Commandments.
Check out the difference my friend.
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:00pmLUkerw
Report Post »You say fulfilled in the new testament. The jews do not agree. The Jews, the folks that use the OLd testament as law do not think that Christ was the “One”.They are still waiting for the ONE.
macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:10pmOne mans honering is another mans worship. Just take a look at how liberals, the media, and blacks honer Obams. Not far from worship if you ask me.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 1:05pm@MAC…
Report Post »Exactly… Christianity is totally different from Judaism. If you follow the Laws of the Old Testament: you are a Jew by Faith (Belief + Action)! GOD gives FreeWill for Humans to make choices… even if leads to destruction.
KickinBack
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:48amGoogle map the Lincoln Memorial, then draw a line due east to the U.S. Capitol. Now find the White House (slightly north) and draw a line due south (crossing the Lincoln/Capitol line) to the Jefferson Memorial…
What you get is a perfect Christian cross. Yes, the DC designers developed it that way.
I’ll bet the atheists will have a hell of a time trying to reorganize that!
Report Post »saranda
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:12amYou do know the Lincoln Memorial was only built in 1911, and Jefferson Memorial was another 30 hears after that. Your “vision” shared by DC must have been based on Nostrodamus.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:12amTake your right arm and hold it out to your right, take you left arm and hold it out to your left, now with both feet flat on the ground, and the sun at 4 o’clock, you have a shadow of a cross.
Report Post »Or, by your standards, if I draw a line from our own courthouse to my house, and then another from the County jail to my sister’s house, it makes a perfect Christian Cross………we must be blessed.
No, I don’t think the Atheist will have too much trouble discounting your theses.
KickinBack
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:36amUm, I didn’t say the “original” DC designers…And you can‘t deny that it’s not there.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:17pmThe same has been done with a pentagram to show that “DC WAS BUILT BY SATANISTS!” (cue ominous music)
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:54pm@Bruce P.
You are correct about the pentagram layout, wrong about the meaning. The pentagram was widely used as a masonic symbol, not surprising since some of the founders (including Washington) were freemasons.
What you are dictating is a “pentacle”…or a reverted pentagram with a circle around it. That was a symbol adopted by the satanists…
As for the cross layout I mentioned above, I forgot to note that the layout is east-west with the top facing west…mirroring the way traditional Christian churches and burials are positioned as well…Coincidence? I think not.
Report Post »JediKnight
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 6:43pmCheck out the McMillan Plan. Looks like a well decorated cross to me. I’m sure it was a complete accident, especially since every designer of DC wanted the Capitol building at the center of the design (which would be the foot of the cross) :P
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:43amremember obama said we are not a christian nation.
Report Post »progressiveslayer
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:48amThe atheist in chief makes a lot of nonsense comments.
Report Post »cloudsofwar
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:38amjust think they used to teach this history in school. now not so much. yesterday at mass the priest spoke against gay marriage. he said christians had it right for the last 2000 years, one man one woman in marriage. not his exact words but thats pretty much it. i pray that our priest continue to speak out. GOD BLESS AMERICA
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:57amNot an advocate of gay marriage, but did your Priest know that homosexuals walked the earth and probably in same crowds that Christ walked in.
Report Post »As a matter of fact, God probably created Eve, so Adam would not lay up with Steve, or what ever name Satan went by in the story.
lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:37amSORRY: Christ replaced the Ten Commandments with the Golden Rule; Christ replaced Joshua of the Promised Land with Joshua (Christ’s name) of the Kingdom of GOD on Earth; Christ freed the Slaves that were Condoned; Christ ended the Religion of GOD being only for those of Hebrew Tribes; Christ defined GOD as Love not Jealousy; and Christ ended All Sacrifice with his Perfect Self Sacrifice end the reason for the Temple!
That leaves Nothing, really, In Common!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:01amSome here understands, and I think it’s Lukerw.
Report Post »JayhawkPatriot
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:14am“SORRY: Christ replaced the Ten Commandments with the Golden Rule” — Error Alert..Error Alert! Christ DID NOT replace the Ten Commandments. The Laws that were done away with were the MAN made laws such as rituals and traditions which were written by the finger of MAN & put into place by the Pharisees & Priests through the generations in an effort to attain God’s favor by actions or works. These were burdensome laws that actually restricted people and were not what God had intended for his Chosen people. The Ten commandments were written by the finger of God, intended for all and for eternity. Jesus never abolished the Ten Commandents, In fact when asked what was the greatest commandment He didn’t reply that they were invalid, instead he said: ” The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment. And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.” (Mark 12:29-31). These 2 commandents cover All 10 Commandments. The first are about giving Worship to God, the last 6 are about how to treat others in the world. If you love your neighbor as you do yours then you wont commit murder or adultery or steal or lie. TheTen Commandments ARE the Golden Rules
Report Post »TRONINTHEMORNING
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:22amYep; LUKERW, your post rocks and is 100 percent true. God bless!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:00pm@JAY…
Report Post »SORRY, you are Lost. Christ spoke to the Jews of the Commandments (613)… seeking agree upon what was the Highest… and they agreed that LOVE… of GOD… and of Man was it: the Golden Rule. If you apply the Golden Rule against each of the Jewish Commandment, you will find that the Golden Rule accounts & trumps the Commandment. So, when Christ says, I have not come to Change the Law, but to Fulfill it… He is really saying the Golden Rule that He gives replaces All in Fulfillment of being the Messiah… because No Jew ever was Righteous in the Old Law!
The-Monk
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 3:01pm@lukerw
Hi Luke,
You might find this interesting. The Golden Rule predates Christianity. The earliest I can find it dates back to the Mahabharata (written 5000 years ago and pronounced Maha-bhar-ata)
“This is the sum of all true righteousness:
deal with others as thou wouldst thyself be dealt by.
Do nothing to thy neighbor which thou
wouldst not have him do to thee hereafter.”
Here are a two links you might enjoy about the background of The Golden Rule.
http://bahaiforums.com/pictures/2248-golden-rule-poster-golden-rule-quoted-different-religions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Golden_Rule
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 8:34am@THE-MONK
Report Post »Being a Prophet is being one who is special & can Commune with GOD. GOD is GOD; Truth is Truth; and both are always True. The Reasoning of what is the Greatest Law… always leads to the same place: LOVE is Truth!
4truth2all
Posted on May 21, 2012 at 10:11amYo Monk;
NOTHING predates “christianity”. Adam and Eve walked with God in the garden, they knew Christ from the get- go. O course, what I have said is foolishness if one thinks the bible to be unfounded.
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 10:36amConsidering the fact that most wars in this world have been fought in the name of religion the sooner it becomes obsolete the better this planet will be.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:00amWhere did you get that Fact? The Egyptians, Greeks, and Romans never fought a War in the Name of Religion! The Emperor Charlemagne fought against Islamic Invasions of the Caliphate (a State)! The Mexican/American War, Spainish/American War; Civil War; WWI, WWII, Korea, Viet Nam… had nothing to do with Religion. And, more Modern Wars are again about Islam/Muslims doing their old World Conquest Ideolgy.
The Fact is Wars are fought over Land & Wealth!
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:05amIt has become obsolete, some just will not accept it. The Christians are not the problem now, they have been pacified, with self endowed rightousness. The muslim’s, with the Koran should be outlawed in this and all civilized nations. Your freedom of religion does not allow you to practice that which is harmful or dangerous for other. The Southern Baptist managed to outlaw certain sects of that religion.
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:12amLuker ,its petty‘s fable don’t, mess it up with facts.
Report Post »macpappy
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:18am@Lukerw
Report Post »If you think that the Muslims are after land, you are wrong. the Muslim goal is religious victory over the world. Caliphate is no more than religious victory over oposing religions.
I agree that most wars are fought over land, but all sides usually think that God is on their side.
Right now, all wars are being fought by, wait for it……the USA. Thats right, we are the war mongers of the earth today.
HowardSternIsABigot
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:26amA lot fought “in name of religion” is true. But in most cases reeligion was merely the tool used to rouse the populace. The expensive armies, controlled by the state, not the church , did the fighting. The spoils of war went to the state, not the church. History of church vs stae in western culture is very complicated, but simplifying it…its a competition between church and state for the hearts of men. States have evolved to control all secular things like military and business where the churches focused on the morals and social justice thingy. Its like saying Christians attacked Iraq because they were moslem. Bullhockey, religion is a tool for both sides but the real power is the secular state and its goals and needs.
Report Post »Bob_R_OathKeeper
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:43amJust wait until the big battle against evil, LOL at you, thinking God knows nothing about war.
Report Post »PETTYDRAMA
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 11:44amLike I said, the world would be better off without Christians and Muslims since they have started the majority of wars.
Report Post »HowardSternIsABigot
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:15pmSilly me, I thought oil might have been involved? Current wars by uSA we forbid troops to carry bibles, star of david or eat pork. We wont insult islam for anything, to the point of endangering our troops. Over and over we stress religious neutrality in our dealings, but the myth of a religious war continues.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 12:33pm@pettydrama
Report Post »“the world would be better off…”
In that case, the world would be better off without governments since they started most wars. Or better yet the world would be better off without people. Until you can prove lack of religion means lack of war your argument is just idiotic spouting and speculation. Or did you forget how violent and immoral the atheist country of the Soviets was?
lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:01pm@MAC…
Islam is a Theocracy… of State plus Religion… where the Caliph (successor of Mohammed; Emperor over all other Nation) rules over both. The State collects Tribute from Lands conquered by the Military and redisburses it down a tree structure… whereas Muslims, not in the Government, work and trade.
You can call Islamic Wars as Religious, but they are State organized, even if only involving one Nation. The current Caliph resides in London, England… where the Mayor calls the City as Muslim! And, the last 3 Wars by the US have been against Islam… where the Koran (Muslim Bible) totally supports the Caliph!
Once the World is Islamic… the State will keep Order… and the Religion will Teach & call all to prayer!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 20, 2012 at 2:45pm@PETTY…
Report Post »You are ready to become a Loyal Communist under Obama… for you cite what the Russians believe!