Muslim Cemetery Controversy Thrusts NY Town Into National Spotlight
- Posted on December 11, 2010 at 4:11pm by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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SIDNEY CENTER, N.Y. (AP) — The cemetery lies beneath a grove of maples on a hill overlooking the farm. On a crisp November day in 2009, it received its first guest — a 28-year old stonemason killed in a car accident two days earlier.
Somberly, his Sufi Muslim brethren carried his coffin up the hill, their colorful turbans and baggy tunics a striking contrast to the rolling hills all around. Beneath a vibrant green headstone — the color of the Osmanli Naksibendi Hakkani order, which runs a 50-acre farm and mosque here — the shrouded body of Amir Celoski was lowered into the ground. Mourners bowed their heads and prayed: May he rest in peace.
But that was not to be.
Instead of peace, Celoski’s burial ignited a war — one that would erupt nine months later, hurling Sidney into the national spotlight, bitterly dividing some residents while transforming others who say their lives and their town will never be the same.
It all began quietly enough at a sparsely attended meeting of the Board of Supervisors last summer, after a second burial in the cemetery. At the height of a national debate about a mosque near ground zero, town leaders voted unanimously to investigate the Sufi graves on Wheat Hill Road.
The Sufis had followed proper procedures and received burial permits. But that didn’t deter town Supervisor Robert McCarthy from calling the graves illegal and suggesting the bodies might have to be disinterred.
“You can’t just bury Grandma in the backyard under the picnic table,” he said.
With that, McCarthy, a 70-year-old retired businessman, became a poster child for Muslim-bashing everywhere. MSNBC host Keith Olbermann denounced him as “worst person in the world.“ Satirist Stephen Colbert direly warned viewers about Muslim vampire ”sleeper-in-coffin-cells” infiltrating the Catskills.
Locals watched in horror as Sidney was branded as Islamophobic, backward and ignorant.
“It was sickening,” says attorney Tom Schimmerling, 58, the son of Holocaust survivors, who immediately offered to represent the Sufis free of charge. “McCarthy was acting like this was Selma, Ala., in the ’60s and he was Bull Connor.”
“At first I felt so ashamed of my town,” said Richard Cooley, 48, whose Main Street jewelry store has been in the family for 125 years. “And then I saw how the community reacted and I thought how amazing the way we pulled together to do away with something so wrong and make it right.”
For in the days and weeks that followed, a spirited, almost intoxicating sense of mission seemed to surge through Sidney, 150 miles north of New York City. Though the town Board of Supervisors hastily dropped the cemetery issue, it had set in motion something it couldn’t contain. People reached out, not only to Sufis, but to each other. They set up websites, bonded on Facebook, launched petitions to impeach McCarthy and investigate town government.
They packed into the civic center for a chaotic town meeting, where — as more than a dozen Sufis looked on — about 150 locals yelled at their board. “Shame on you!” they cried. “Apologize!”
Many had never been to a town meeting before. Many had never met a Muslim.
And they trekked to the Sufi center eight miles outside town, to sip tea with the sheik, to vow that Sidney, population 6,000, will be in the spotlight again, this time as a shining example of tolerance and understanding.
___
It’s 6 a.m on a Saturday and business is brisk at the Trackside diner, where pancakes and bacon cost less than $3, political opinions are as strong as the coffee, and the roar of an approaching train occasionally drowns out conversation.
Here regulars, including a core group of McCarthy supporters, meet every morning for breakfast. These days, the main topic of conversation has been, as one man jokingly put it, “the turbans on top of the hill.”
The door opens and two men in turbans walk in. The diner falls silent, just the clinking of silverware as people bury themselves in their breakfasts.
Though he has only been to the diner once before, everyone recognizes the taller man — Hans Hass, the chief spokesman for the Sufis and chief thorn in McCarthy’s side.
Lately Hass, 40, seems to be everywhere — talking with national media, writing letters to town leaders and state officials, attending meetings of the newly formed “Concerned Citizens for Responsible Sidney Government,” filing freedom of information requests. His unruffled manner and calm, authoritative voice have captivated the crowd as he persistently confronts McCarthy with the facts and the law.
As captain of the local ambulance squad, volunteer firefighter, and roofing contractor, Hass was already a familiar face in town. Now, almost overnight, he has become a community leader with many urging him to run against McCarthy in the next election.
At the diner, Hass is greeted by Carrie Guarria, a 45-year-old college assistant administrator who invited him after becoming increasingly disturbed about comments she heard at breakfast — that all Muslims are terrorists, that the Sufis have pictures of Osama Bin Laden at their center, that the town would be better off if they dug up their graves and left.
If ever there was a time to shatter caricatures and prejudices, Guarria thought, it was right now, right here in Sidney.
Sitting at her table is Bill Howes, an 81-year-old retired excavator, in work boots and baseball cap. He grunts good morning at Hass, who sits down across from him. Soon the two men are bantering about sports and exchanging mildly racy jokes as they dig into pancakes and eggs.
But Howes’ demeanor changes when the conversation turns to McCarthy. “Someone has to shake the town up,” he says, defending McCarthy’s efforts to rein in spending in areas like the hospital and a local campsite. “It’s not just your cemetery deal.”
“But he told reporters all over the country that what we did was illegal, and it wasn’t,” Hass protests.
Howes excuses himself and moves to another table. Later, he will boast about having breakfast with “those Muslim guys” and will tell people how nice they seemed. But he has no plans to take up Hass’ invitation to visit with the sheik.
Other diners invite Hass to join them. Soon a dozen people are engaged in a lively debate about politics, religion and the fate of their once thriving riverside factory town. Old-timers lament that the cemetery controversy is just the latest in a string of misfortunes, including the recession and a 2006 flood.
They ask Hass about his background, and he tells them of growing up in South Portland, Maine, of going to college in Connecticut, of embracing Sufism after years of searching other religions and ways of life.
Before leaving, he hands out his business cards and invites them to visit the center, called a dergah.
Later, Hass drives the back roads, checking on a roofing job, stopping by the homes of elderly dairy farmers to inquire about their health and their cows, picking up his mail at the post office. Everywhere, he is greeted warmly.
But there is one place he does not feel welcome — the Jess F. Howes building supply store in Sidney Center. Earlier in the year, Hass says, he asked the owners to remove offensive Muslim jokes scattered on the counter. They did, but he felt it was done reluctantly. Now Hass refuses to shop there.
Inside the store, a man behind the counter glares at a visitor, gives a phony name and snaps “no comment” when asked about his Sufi neighbors just a short drive up the hill.
___
The Sufis settled in the hamlet of Sidney Center in 2002, following Sheik Abdul Kerim al-Kibrisi, 54, who moved here after years of hosting services in New York City. Quietly, they worked their sprawling sheep and cattle farm, isolated for the most part, relatively unnoticed by the larger community.
They converted the enormous red barn into a mosque. Five times a day, a lone man in a turban stands outside chanting, his deep, mellifluous voice ringing across the fields as he calls the faithful to prayer.
Inside, the mosque is a stunningly beautiful place, glowing with colors and warmth, the sweet smell of incense blending with that of a smoky wood stove. Green and gold tapestries drape the walls, which are covered with pictures of sheiks and saints and elaborate calligraphy depicting passages from the Quran. Oriental rugs and cushions cover the floor.
A naturalized American who was born in Cyprus, the sheik is a genial man with a jeweled purple turban, flowing dark tunic and long gray beard. His dark eyes sparkle as he tells his story, of how he first saw the dergah in a dream.
Friday’s Jummah service — the most important of the week — lasts about 40 minutes, the men bowing and praying in front. The women, some in colorful headscarves, others in burqas, pray behind a thin curtain in the back.
Afterward, the curtain is pulled aside and everyone drinks sweet Turkish tea and listens as their sheik speaks of tolerance, the perils of ego — and the controversy consuming the town. His deep, gravelly voice fills the room.
“What is happening right here in Sidney,” he says, “can show the whole world, that we can live peacefully as Muslims and non-Muslims, that we can share the same land, that a small town in America can show that the whole country is not mired in Islamophobia.”
The group of about 30 men and 10 women listen attentively. They come from all backgrounds and cultures — American-born converts as well as Muslim immigrants. Most live and work locally, visiting the dergah for services. Others drive from New York and New Jersey, where the order has another dergah.
All say the furor over the graves has imbued them with a renewed sense of hope for their country and their town.
“It fills my heart,” says Erdem Kahyaoglu, a strapping 31-year-old, who grew up on Long Island and became a Sufi as a college student. He chokes up as he describes his joy and astonishment that, as he wrote to one of his new Facebook friends, neighbor Jenneen Bush, “you stood up for us and you don’t even know us.”
“Honey,” Bush wrote back. “I just stood up for what is right. And I want to get to know all of you.”
Sufism is a mystical tradition in Islam; the order says its mission is to live a quiet, simple life of prayer and contemplation. But the Sufis know they are being watched.
They’ve heard their share of taunts: “Terrorists, go back to your own country.” They’ve had their share of police calls: a suspicious man in a turban spotted sitting by the dam; a suspicious man in a turban making a cell phone call next to a power plant. An FBI agent has visited, impressing them with his knowledge of Islam.
Still, they hear the rumors — that they are storing weapons, that they are a cult, that they are planning something evil.
If only more people would visit, get to know them as individuals. They would meet Bilal, once a shy, skinny kid from New York City who was scared of sheep, now he is in charge of the animals; Abdullah, the beekeeper; Talatfathima, whose luminous eyes peer from her black burqa as she giggles at the antics of her 14-month-old son; Bilques Mohamed, the oldest member at 85, who shuffles into the mosque every day pushing her walker, and her son Bayram, a former New York City cab driver and the mosque’s resident comedian, who entertains everyone with priceless impersonations of McCarthy.
As Maryem Brawley, the sheik’s wife, told town officials, “No one called. No one wrote a letter. No one knocked on our door. You just assumed that we were doing something illegal. You made assumptions about us that were not true.”
Brawley, 60, who was raised Roman Catholic in New Jersey and turned to Sufism in the mid-1990s, works for IBM and rarely had much interaction with locals. But lately that has changed.
People have written letters of support, have reached out in e-mails, have moved her to tears with their compassion and goodwill.
“We were all sort of strangers before,” she says. “And now we are becoming friends.”
It is not a friendship that appeals to everyone.
____
In cowboy hat and wind-breaker, Bob McCarthy strides into the Sidney Golf and Country Club, a creaky clapboard building that looks as though it has seen better days. The guys at the bar offer friendly nods. Diners pat him on the back and tell him what a good job he is doing. The waitress knows his order — cup of soup and hamburger, half of which he will save for his chocolate Labrador mix, Kelly, who waits patiently in his gray pickup truck outside.
Here McCarthy, a stocky, red-faced man with snow white hair, can be comfortable. No one is yelling at him to account for gaps in budget figures, or to resign. There are no guys in turbans denouncing him as a bigot.
“It had nothing to do with the fact they are Muslim, I was just trying to keep tax dollars down,” says McCarthy, who once ran a business making custom golf-putters.
McCarthy has no political experience — he first ran for office last year — and, he says, he has no political agenda other than to cut taxes and spending as much as possible. The cemetery affair, he says, was blown out of proportion by the media.
McCarthy makes no apologies for his pugnacious manner. He says he doesn’t care that fellow board members issued a statement saying he needed to work on his “people skills,” or that he is lampooned daily on a Facebook site called Impeach Bob McCarthy.
“It’s not a popularity contest,” he says, though he admits that “all this stupidity” has upset his wife.
McCarthy ran for office on a platform of “transparency in government” and he insists that is what he is trying to do, though a recent budget workshop session, hastily posted the night before, was held at 7:30 a.m. Hass showed up, mocked his lack of transparency and accused the board of holding an illegal secret meeting.
Hass further needled McCarthy by walking into a recent Sunday service at the First Baptist Church, wearing his turban, and infuriating McCarthy’s wife, who worships there. Hass says it was a chance to reach out to people he ordinarily wouldn’t meet. He describes a fruitful exchange with the pastor, who told him the controversy had prompted him to start reading the Quran, and with elders who explained the history of the church.
McCarthy snorts in disbelief. He questions whether Hass is truly a Muslim, or simply “a jerk fueling things for his own personal agenda.”
Yet McCarthy’s agenda has caused consternation even among fellow Republicans. Earlier in the year he made headlines when he publicly opposed funding for the local Stop-DWI program.
“Cell phones are a worse menace,” McCarthy says defensively, as he finishes lunch and heads back to his truck. Kelly barks excitedly in the front seat. McCarthy’s eyes soften.
“I could kill Mother Teresa and this dog would still love me,” he says, before driving away.
That night McCarthy will be in the hot seat again, at yet another tumultuous town meeting at the civic center.
In a move that appears tone deaf to some, incendiary to others, the board has decided to introduce a new law — the first of 2010 — concerning private burials on private land. Board members assure the Sufis that their cemetery will not be affected, but in two weeks, they have simply traded one angry crowd for another.
Tempers flare as people furiously demand answers. Accusations fly back and forth, and there is little sense of dignity, democracy or order. With a few exceptions, the only people remaining calm are those wearing turbans.
Hass addresses the board. Sarcastically, he suggests giving the new law a catchy name, something folks will remember.
“How about … you can’t bury Grandma in the backyard under the picnic table law?”
McCarthy winces. The crowd erupts. It’s going to be another long night.
Even some of Hass’ supporters wonder privately if he is pushing things too far. He admits that he is enjoying the political theater, but insists there is a serious purpose to his actions. A shift is happening in Sidney, Hass says, and he is trying to harness it, to educate people, to use this controversy as a springboard for lasting change.
And, Hass says, the experience has changed him personally — made him feel even more proud of being both American and Muslim, and more determined to play a bigger role in his community.
___
Skeptics say all this goodwill and tolerance — not to mention efforts to oust McCarthy— will fade, disappearing into memory as winter sets in and people burrow back into their lives.
Others disagree. Many say events have changed them profoundly.
Jenneen Bush, 41, who had never been to a town meeting or met a Muslim before, is reading about Sufism and planning to bring her grandchildren to dinner at the dergah. Floyd Howard, 63, felt such a surge of passion for his hometown that he momentarily forgot about his cancer. He joined the Historical Society — a gesture of sorts — simply to be more engaged in town affairs. It promptly named him president.
Real estate agent, Jackie Rose, 52, who resigned from the Republican Town committee in disgust over McCarthy’s leadership, shocked her 21-year-old son by driving alone to the dergah. It was the first time she had ever been in a mosque or met a sheik.
“Weren’t you scared?” her son asked. “No,” she told him. “There has been too much ignorance and fear. We have to take a stand, make friendships and get along.”
Tom Schimmerling, the Jewish lawyer, feels the same way. Sidney’s saga prompted him to dig up an old movie — the 1947 classic “Gentleman’s Agreement” — about a journalist (played by Gregory Peck) who goes undercover as a Jew to research anti-Semitism in New York.
Watching the movie, Schimmerling had an epiphany. He plans to take a few weeks off to roam the country in his new turban — a gift from the Sufis — and explore what it’s like to be Muslim in America in 2010.
He feels an overwhelming pride, he says, “that a small town in Delaware County could rise up in support of what is right.”
Schimmerling says this on a rainy Thursday night in November, as he lingers with a small group of people at the civic center. They are pondering the aftermath of the latest meeting, which broke down in pandemonium a short time earlier. They are debating the future of their town.
“Change is happening,” says a retired plant manager, Joe Cardinal. “But there has been too much yelling and shouting and finger-pointing. It’s going to take time for the town to heal.”
Up at the dergah, a very different gathering is taking place. It is the one-year anniversary of the death of Amir Celoski, the first man to be buried in the Sufi cemetery. Family members have traveled from New Jersey to pay tribute.
Tearfully, they remember an exuberant young man who hoped to move to Sidney with his fiancee and raise a family in the community he loved.
Aviska Celoski says she wept for days at the thought of her son’s body being disinterred. Now, she says, the family feels so heartened by the outpouring of support, they plan to move to Sidney permanently. In a strangely comforting way, the controversy — and the good that has come of it — has given her son’s death meaning.
The men form a semicircle around the sheik’s deputy, Lokman Hoja, a gracious, soft-spoken Malaysian man of 39. Women sit in the back. Lights are dimmed, heads bowed and everyone falls silent as Hoja reads a sermon from their grand sheik.
Live quietly, the holy man exhorts. Live a life of gentleness, of tolerance, free from anger and ego.
Eyes closed, the men and women begin chanting “La ilaha ilallah” (“There is no God but God”) a rich, undulating melody that prompts some worshippers to sway softly in the dark.
Their voices rise. The smell of incense wafts through the room. The rain beats outside.
Here, in a converted barn on the top of Wheat Hill road, anger, ego, and the heated passions of the past weeks and months seem a world away.
___
Helen O’Neill, a national writer for The Associated Press based in New York, can be reached at features(at)ap.org.
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Comments (109)
dizzyinthedark
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:48pmI just saw a funny a bumper sticker, “Let’s play cowboys and muslims”.
All good muslims follow the koran and this book states they must kill the infidel–that would be us and the Jews. Sorry, but in my opinion there are no good muslims. If there are, why haven‘t I seen any of them protesting against imam’s in mosques supporting hamas? Huh? Where are the good ones!?
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:47pmNEWS: muslim homicide bomber terrorists just took out the Christmas market in Stockholm.
Report Post »JustMel71
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:42pmWhat happened to my post?? Has this happened to anyone else? Or did someone report my post? It was about the author of this story and it definitely had no offensive language or slander. Just curious if this has happened to anyone else.
Thanks,
Report Post »Melinda
JustMel71
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:46pmOh I see it now. Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:57pm Your comment is awaiting moderation. Whatever… I’ll quit posting, no problem. See ya.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:47pmgive them a few minutes.
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:35pmYes and Queen Isabella did such wonderful things for the Jews who lived in Spain peacefully under the rule of the Caliphate.
History is not a simple equation, quit trying to mold it to suit your needs.
Report Post »Race
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:35pmPro-Muslim propaganda piece.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:49pmexactly. written to lull you into a false sense of trust.
NEWS: peaceful muslim homicide bombers just took out the Christmas market in Stockholm Sweden.
Report Post »bullcrapbuster
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:27pmMuslims and civilized westerners cannot and will not live together in peace. That is why Queen Isabella kicked them out of Spain during medieval times. So a thousand years later they let them back in and the god is great bunch blew up a few trains. Nice bunch of boys.
Report Post »petestreet
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:27pmThe sad reality is that we were founded as a judeo, christan nation and these people don’t belong here look what happened in frence, and England. Europe brought in this trash to beef up there economy. What they got was welfare trash that burnt down the cities.
Report Post »temple62
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:59pmMuslim should be put on barges and hauled away with the rest of the garbage. Holder can apologize to them later or sooner!
Report Post »kentuckylady
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 1:20amAmen
Report Post »Paul -Indiana
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 3:41pmOr not.
Report Post »SubHuman
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:58pmSo a very long article to point out what exactly? People wrote articles saying we should befriend the Nazis as well. That we shouldn’t be so mean spirited to the downtrodden Germans. You know we did? We killed German soldiers and crushed German cities until they were defeated. Then and only then did we tolerate Germany. I have no sympathy for the enemy. And Islam is the enemy.
Report Post »JustMel71
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:57pmHere is another one of Helen O’Neill long winded stories. (be sure to prop your eyelids open….)
http://asne.org/key_initiatives/awards/view_winning_entry/articleid/1656/helen-o-neill-the-associated-press.aspx#suspect
Little more info on Helen O’Neill: “Helen has that rare ability to pull you right into a riveting story, enticing you to care about the characters and holding you in her spell until the very last word,” said Kathleen Carroll, the AP’s executive editor. “Readers anxiously followed each harrowing development, sighing with relief when Heddie Braun was rescued alive and cheering when her captors were sent to prison.”
source: http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_022005.html
AP’s O’Neill wins 2010 Eugene S. Pulliam National Journalism Writing Award
http://www.poynter.org/latest-news/romenesko/101550/aps-oneill-wins-2010-eugene-s-pulliam-national-journalism-writing-award/
***Get the picture yet?, At least it brought some clarity to me.***
Report Post »BRAVEHEART
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 10:00pmJustmel71 Thanks for the info on O’neill, seems like she is biased and unwilling to deal with the real issues and facts. Liberal reporters tend to see everything through the eyes of their idealolgy and liberal progressive agenda. Your info really clarifies the bias in this story.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 12:36amAs opposed to FOX, which, of the major corporate news outlets (NBC, Disney/ABC, Time-Warner/CNN, CBS, and FOX/NewsCorp), issues more retractions than any of the aforementioned. That’s not an opinion, that’s a verifiable fact.
Report Post »nicks66
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:57pmI’d like to hear more about this story. It’s posted on Topix-Sidney,NY. A land surveyor claims there are radical Muslims training in Delaware county NY.
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/sidney-ny/TM1VG6EF84LTO70P4#lastPost
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:51pmif an American White is a muslim, it will be a matter in wartime to determine if it is a democrat coward, a moron democrat, or a democrat collaborator. it can only be one of the 3, because islam is all about the total downfall of America and Christianity.
anyone thinking islam is a “peaceful religion” andis not a war strategy/political ideology is totally gullible and you can sell them the Brooklyn Bridge if you want.
Report Post »UMMAH GUMMAH
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:59pm.
Thank you. That is exactly what it is. Keep speaking Truth to Ignorance!
We all must do it.
.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:56pm@ Burnthills
Report Post »“moron democrat” is redundant. Democrats officially became morons the day they voted for Obuma.
The Third Archon
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 12:24amI’m sorry, I must have missed the part in the Koran where it says “and America must fall for the global mission of Islam to be fulfilled.” Hell, if Muslim prophet COULD have foretold not only the rise, but specifically identified in such a way as there to be no dispute (perhaps by naming) as to the identity, of a world superpower then I have to say, that’s pretty much proof of prophetic power, and we should all convert.
Luckily though, unless I’m very much mistaken, the Koran DOESN’T name America for destruction.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:47pmeverything we have read, and heard from our own veterans, tells us one thing. muslims want America subjugated and cast back into the stone age with them as our masters. look how obama is destroying America now. they know we are heavily armed and we will fight back, so they have their creatures like obama and holder in there with their anti-White agenda as Whites are the majority of (HEAVILY ARMED private) America, islam is using our laws and our democrat socialist cowards against US.
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:35pmConservingink
Report Post »Battles large or small serve to inform Americans of what they are facing.
It is hard to tell with this story, with it’s well-balanced non biased journalism (sarc off) whether this served a purpose or not.
It must have had some effect. She wrote about it in her deep, mellifluous manner.
confederacyofdunces
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:32pmSufi‘s are a group un to their own and shouldn’t get lumped in with the average tablecloth wearing murderer. I don‘t believe the Sufi’s were involved in any terrorist actions.
Report Post »Ghostrider
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:28pmNot all muslims are terrorist, but all terrorist are muslim.
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 7:07pmExcept for Timothy Mcveigh, the IRA, the Red Army Faction, the Tamil Tigers, extremist Sikhs, various communist organizations, the Colombian National Liberation Army, FARC, the Weather Underground, Kach, Kahane Chai, Aum Shinrikyo, Shining Path, Interahamwe, ETA, etc.
Report Post »janddjohnson
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:27pmPersonally I felt this story was trying to get me to feel more pro muslim. Not going to happen. I think the issue with the cemetary in the town should of never happened but we weren‘t there so we don’t know the entire story. There are two sides to every story and then there is the truth. I have been reading alot about Islam and what it has done to Europe and I see the beginnings of that here. I respect your right to have your religion but don‘t force me to have to take your beliefs just like it is your right to be homosexual but don’t force it on me..I will not ever think it is ok and don’t want it taught in schools or making others condone it. I wish we could all get along peacefully but muslims want to kill us and take over our country and if you can’t see that well maybe you should open your eyes to the rest of what they have done to the rest of the world where they are located. Why would any civilized nation want this in their country with the way they treat women..you saw the article the other day where the muslim father in law cut off his son’s wifes nose and ears because she tried to run away from her forced upon here husband for beating her. They are sick bastards.
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:36pmChristians beat their wives, molest children, and commit murder every day, but we never claim that Christianity is a disease and we never call for the removal of all Christians, we need to stop applying the actions of a few to the whole. The anti-Muslim sentiment I often find on this site is utterly reprehensible, we cannot judge over a billion people on the actions of a few.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:42pmexactly, this AP story is no doubt designed and written to placate us and lull us into the fuzzy sense that all these muslims are peaceful and assimiliating “citizens” here…
Report Post »TumbleBumble
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:52pmJandD, I got the same impression as you did. I was waiting to hear the other side of the story. I am so put off by this.
I had lived in Chicago for the first half of my life. I know what it is like to be white and drive through bad neighborhoods – the cold stares, hostile things yelled out as we drive by, even had a glass bottle thrown at us while on a motorcycle. It is scary and intimidating. I also know what it is like to talk to people who have only known white suburbia, and they have no idea what racial tensions are yet they talk with authority. (Kind of like politicians do.)
I now live near a mosque. In a store, I have been pushed into a rack of greeting cards because three Muslim men were walking abreast down the aisle and one was not going to move to avoid me. He turned back and laughed. But I have also been hugged by a Muslim woman (mother of a child in my son’s class) and wished a Merry Christmas. I was so touched by that.
So yes, there are good and bad. Which is why I think this story should have provided ‘the other side’ so we could honestly decide for ourselves.
Report Post »ME
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:55pm@cognitivedissonance
Yea but our religion condemns it not condones it that is the big difference. Get an education in something besides lets all feel good.
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:01pmyour concept of an “education” tends to involve taking false information from sources with an anti-Muslim bias. I’m non-religious, but I grew up in a Christian home and I know many people who are Muslim and have done some studies of Islamic history, the concept of an evil, creeping, world conquering Islam is silly. You seem to just need something to be frightened of or angry at.
Report Post »teahugger
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:25pm@ Cog: Of course, Christians commit heinous acts, as do Jews, Hindus and people of all other religions. Because they are people, and people are imperfect. The difference, which any person with a grasp of the obvious would see, is that Islam teaches these acts in their holy text and promotes acceptance of these behaviors…it is part and parcell of their religion. Not so with Christianity and Judaism. You see, when a Christian behaves in such a manner, they are sinning and when a Muslim behaves in such a manner they are just doing what the Koran teaches.
Report Post »Nvrforget
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:26pmI agree. This is like saying Christians are evil because some things written in the Bible are evil or saying all Christians are terrorists because the IRA were terrorists or the KKK were terrorists. Othering in its purest form.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:29pm@cognitivedissonance
(Qur’an (4:34): “Men are the maintainers of women… the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and BEAT THEM… [emphasis mine]
Abu Dawud (2142): “The Prophet…said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.”
—-
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her. (Eph. 5:25)
Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. (Col. 3:19)
Report Post »—-
Listen, what a so-called Christian does to his wife is beside the point. Janddjohnson is talking about how a RELIGION instructs that women should be treated. Our Instruction Manual says that the way a man treats his one and only wife must reflect his own relationship to Jesus. That is why the Church is also called the Bride of Christ, a name that conveys the holy and intimate nature of our relationship to our Savior.
janddjohnson
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:42pmcognitivedissonance
Report Post »Do Christians make their wives cover up from head to toe? Do Christians make their women worship in the back of the church behind a curtain? Do Christians make women use separate entrances? Oh I could go on and on but whats the use…
cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:51pmThe Bible also has a few wonky commands about women:
1 Timothy 2:11-12
Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.
1 Corinthians 14:34
women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.
and Deuteronomy allows for stoning women for adultery.
This debate is stupid and could go on forever, one person quoting a bible verse and another quoting the Qu’ran and it would go nowhere. These are books written by people living in the desert over 2,000 years ago, they are going to have some weird stuff in them, but most Christians and Muslims realize that it is impossible to follow all the commandments of the scripture.
It is those who try to impose archaic and tyrannical laws that must be opposed, regardless of their religion.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 8:33pm@cognitivedissonance
I’m in a hurry, but here’s a short reply:
Stoning was a form of capital punishment for lawbreakers in the Old Testament. It seems incredibly savage to us now, but it was quick and far less cruel than what other societies of the time used. Also, keep in mind that stoning was not reserved only for women. It was for every and anybody who broke the law. The Pharisees tried to stone Jesus several times.
Jesus introduced the dispensation of grace, whereby we no longer have to physically or spiritually die for our sins, because He died in our place. Thus, He abolished the practice of stoning forever. Jesus’ reaction to the woman whom the Pharisees had caught in the act of adultery is telling: “He who is without SIN, let him cast the first stone.” (BTW, according to the law Pharisees were so fond of quoting, the man should have been stoned as well.)
Teaching is a controversial issue. Some churches take it literally; others believe the verses in question have a contextual (restricted) meaning.
As for women being “silent in the church,” there are Bible scholars who view it as a call to order in the Church of Corinth, where women were asking their husbands questions during the service: “If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church.” The Church of Corinth was disorderly in many ways. In other passages, Paul talks about women openly praying and prophesying in church.
Regardless of how individual churches interpret these verses, everyone agrees that they refer exclusively to church ministries. It certainly has no relevance to how a man should treat his wife.
Report Post »BOUGHT YOUR SILO YET?
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 11:59pmKryptonite- thank you for your post. I was going to say the same exact thing, but you saved me the time. There are churches today that are very strict about women in the church. It is important for EVERYONE to know that the Bible is easily misinterpreted. I have also had trouble with some passages and this is how I handle it. I pray! I ask God to help me understand his word and if he feels I am not ready to understand a particular passage to at least give me peace until he is ready. It had never failed me. I can honestly say that I read the Bible a lot and every time I do, I gain further knowledge than I did before. I have started keeping a journal. If there is a passage that I do not understand, I write it down and pray on it. I keep track of when God granted me understanding.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 4:44amSilo,
Report Post »You are right that as long as we have the abiding presence of the Lord we will have peace, even when we don’t understand something. Like you say, we have to pray, meditate on the Word and be humble. I still find it hard to stomach much of the OT, especially the Pentateuch, but it is a stark reminder that we desperately needed a Savior. Thanks for sharing. God is good.
cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 1:13pm@kryptonite,
You completely ignored the point of my comment and instead created a strawman argument for you to topple, I don’t care about the nuances in the scriptures. A Muslim scholar could find the nuances in the Qu’ran in a similar fashion.
They are both 2,000 year old books with some rules that you cannot apply today and most Muslims and Christians do not follow them completely and those who do try to impose the exact letter of any scripture are dangerous.
Report Post »blb4jesus
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:15pmThe Sufi‘s cannot be true Muslims if they do not obey the 5 tenets including obedience to the Qu’ran or Koran, however you want to spell it. True obedience to the Qu’ran says that subjegation, conversion or anhiliation are the only options for infidels. It is also jihad and honorable to dupe and/or prosletize through peaceful means. The Muslims are indeed patient if not wise serpents. Unfortunately, sheeple are willing to surrender what they know because of a positive experience. Remember “Arsenic and Old Lace”? When the patience wears thin or the numbers reach 1.5% of the population, things and methods will drastically change and the progressive idiots in charge will have already sold us out.
Report Post »Cliff
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 9:44pmIt is not the sheeple that are letting this happen… it is the a$$hat$ in the government that are doing this… I can not understand why??? It does not make political sense since the Muslims will side with the Koran and we infidels will be beheaded… do the progressives think they will be pardoned somehow??? or are they really that friken stupid?
LOL @ Sheepdog911 “They all pray to allah and their only real authority is moHAMmad (Pigs be in his name)” That‘s funny right there I don’t care were you’re from!!!!
http://www.mentorlynx.com
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:12pmNotice how the author of this article describes the sheik’s chanting outside the mosque as a “deep, mellifluous voice ringing across the fields.” Would such poetic praise be used in reference to Christianity?
Notice, too, how the sheik erupted into a Christian church service wearing his turban, an act which Christians consider an affront to God: “A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God.” (1 Cor. 11:7) So Muslims can disrespect our services, but we must observe their rituals to a tee if we attend mosque. It goes to show that Muslims have absolutely no respect for other religions, and this article is nothing but an ode to BS.
Report Post »pinkcadlac
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 8:38pmAgreed. The writer of the article has already swallowed the multi- culti, dhimmi flavored, muslim approved Kool-aid.
Report Post »staythecourse
Posted on December 12, 2010 at 1:13amAlas, many church bells have been silenced. In fact “the bells of St Mary’s“ in PA was silenced when someone moved into town near the church and complained about the ”noise pollution”. Those bell had rung out across the town since the church was first built to meet the needs of the town nearly a hundred years prior.
Report Post »Conserving Ink
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:12pmYes, there is a problem with Muslims destroying our culture and replacing it with their own. But we need to be more intelligent about how we pick our battles. This was a fight that should have never happened and in the end served the Muslims more than the rest of us.
Report Post »______________________________________________________________
http://conserving-ink.blogspot.com/2010/12/30-day-and-half-full-glass.html
kryptonite
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:24pmIt does sound like a very dumb and intolerant move, if O’Neill is telling the truth. I would still like to hear the other side before I form an opinion.
Report Post »60yroldfemale
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:06pmIt could be worse for the people in this town, they could go the way of the Brits where the Muslims have forced EVERYONE to be buried oriented towards mecca.
Report Post »It’s coming.
I am still trying to figure out what the purpose of this stupid article is. Blah blah blah. Everybody has to love one another.
Crap! I know I am still free to dislike anyone I wish.
At least for a while.
Remember the little jihad is about doing little things to control the infidels. It doesn’t always have to go bang. Drip, drip, drip.
janddjohnson
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:14pmChristians have to be buried facing mecca? Not my ass. How the heck did they get that law passed?
Report Post »cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:21pmI love how you just make things up, it was only one cemetery that has started burying everyone in the direction of Mecca and according to this article I found, a Muslim cleric opposed the policy.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-406682/The-council-cemetery-Christians-given-Muslim-graves.html
This whole idea of creating a culture wore with Islam is flat out idiotic, there are over a billion Muslims in the world and the only way forward is to create understanding and peace and for both sides to reject those who wish to destroy another faith.
cognitivedissonance
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:32pmoops wore = war, that’s an odd typo
BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 4:58pmfancy whirling dervishes or not, these still follow the koran…….. right thru the how to guide for “time to cut your enemies hands feet and head off. “
Report Post »what4
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:14pmAnd if allowed the cockroaches infest and take over!
Report Post »irishman
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 4:28pmBEWARE of the WOLF in sheeps clothing.
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 7:08pmBeware of the wolf in MSNBC clothing
Report Post »krenshau
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 4:24pmThe issue is that Sufi Muslims are very distinct from other muslims. In fact, other muslims, in general, don’t recognise Sufi Muslims as real muslims. The Blaze should really do some research into the Sufi Muslims instead of assuming that all muslims are the same.
Report Post »mtnclimberjim
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:39pmall muzies are the same
Report Post »UMMAH GUMMAH
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:57pm.
SPARE us the taquiyyah, moHAMedan! If it wasn’t for an army of liberals.. I better stop here..
.
Report Post »FORLORNHOPE
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:18pmWhat are their views on Jews and the Israeli state? Do they speak out against terror, suicide killings do they accept sharia law as not being allow under our Constitution.
Report Post »Sheepdog911
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 7:10pmYeah, and Baptists don’t recognize Methodists as fellow Christians. They all pray to allah and their only real authority is moHAMmad (Pigs be in his name) – so guess what – Muslims. Guess where that leaves you. Convert, subjugate, enslave or die. This little town sounds like they’ve already been subjugated.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 3:58pmand so the muslim menance slowly but surely replaces American values and Christianity with an insidious way of life that calls for beheadings and stonings and beatings and rape and pedophilia. and where else are Americans so desperate to prove how “inclusive” they are while being slowly drawn into subjugation and conversion.
Report Post »ME
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:29pmYou are so right on, sheep to the slaughter. You can sing to the sheep and heard them gently and till there in the stanchion and its locked they will be happy then it starts to set in. So it seems most of America will go and Islam knows it do you?
Report Post »UMMAH GUMMAH
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 5:59pm.
This just in:
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=103&artikel=4235014
Car Bomb attack on Swedish Christmas market.
TIME FOR *THEM* TO GO!!!!!!
.
Report Post »Diamond Girl
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 6:45pmBurnthehills …you summed it up for me.
Others as well here.
We are being infiltrated incrementally, agenda-driven…they have stated as such years ago they were going to do this, stating they have patience, if this country doesn’t fight back soon, we are past doomed.
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 7:38pmUm…I didnt know Muslims buried their dead?….I thought they blew them up with an IED……hmm..you learn something every day I guess.
Report Post »pinkcadlac
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 8:34pmThe people of Sidney center, New York, should learn about islam, not from the people in their town who are trying to grow there. They should check out actual facts about the ideology that is islam. I sincerely suggest the following website:
Report Post »barenakedislam.wordpress.com
KICKILLEGALSOUT
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 8:37pmBirthrates across Europe and the US and Canada are around 1-2 per person. 2 is thought be about at replacement level but less than that means your society is dying. Muslims however have a huge birthrate per couple rate. Maybe 6 or 8. As they mass immigrate to Europe and also here in America and Canada, average European Americans and Europeans will soon be a minority and our values and cultures will be replaced with barbaric terror and violence to anyone who opposes. Americans and Europeans need to join the QuiverFull movement just like the Duggars! This is an issue that must be talked about, be taken seriously and acted upon. Get to work having kids and teach them conservative Christian values.
Meanwhile just last week, The U.S. Embassy in London said Louis Susman‘s visit to the East London Mosque was part of the Obama administration’s outreach to Muslims. This mosque has hosted many terrorists. Susman, the U.S. ambassador to the United Kingdom, visited the mosque last week. He was given a tour of the facility and expressed his admiration for its work. He also invited young Muslims there to enroll in a cultural exchange program that would bring them to the U.S.
So I ask, where is the outrage for government policy that promotes and focuses on a Religion? But it is Muslims so I guess it is protected in the Liberal Scum we have in governments eyes!
Islam is not compatible with America and should be banned immediately! The values of Islam are a direct contradiction to the values of the founding fathers of America! Name one good thing Islam has brought to the world? Just one? But we want to mass immigrate these barbarians here? Islam has brought nothing but Hate, Violence, and Intimidation to this country!
Report Post »Don’t be afraid to fight against this evil no matter the cost! All real Americans stand up for what is right and what you believe no matter the cost!
walkwithme1966
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 10:05pmObviously you got nothing from that beautiful written essay – how very sad for you!
Report Post »htttp://maboulette.wordpress.com
NoDaDAZone
Posted on December 11, 2010 at 3:49pmWhy is the Department of Justice (and the FBI, and the DHS and the Federal Reserve) investigating LOWLY artist (because art doesn’t matter you see) Marc Rubin since, on the artist’s behalf, I have made available here WHAT THE PROGRESSIVE DON/T WANT YOU TO KNOW.
THE DADA MANIFESTO IS THEIR TALKING POINTS!.
Dada means Progressive. They are communists, socialists and anarchists. They build nothing. They destroy. They want to kill God and Liberty and Art. They want to rule the world. They are not fit to live on this earth God made”–(Salvador Dali as related to Marc Rubin in 1974)
WATCH RUBIN’S VIDEO ON DADA. IT WILL OPEN YOUR EYES! http://www.marcrubin.com/dada2.ivnu
SINCE RUBIN HAS ALSO BLOWN THE LID OFF OF ISLAM AND ARABS WITH HIS ISRAEL NATIONAL RADIO INTERVIEW http://www.marcrubin.com/judean-eve.ivnu THEY ARE DOUBLY THREATENED.
THESE LINKS WILL GIVE YOU CLEAR VISION