Faith

New Book Claims Famed Shroud of Turin Was Created by Renaissance Artist

New Book Claims Famed Shroud of Turin Was Created by Renaissance ArtistThe Shroud of Turin has captivated the world for centuries. Today, people across the globe continue to believe that the mystery image imprinted on the cloth was created during Jesus Christ’s resurrection. But, in a new book, an art expert claims that the shroud is merely a man-made replicate of the original.

After months of looking closely at photographs of the cloth, historian and author Luciano Buso believes that a famous Italian artist – Giotto – created the shroud. This isn’t the first time that someone has cast doubt on the cloth’s origins, but it is the first time that Giotto, a Renaissance artist, has been named as the individual behind the work. The Daily Mail has more:

[Buso] says that several veiled appearances of the number 15, hidden in the fabric by the artist, indicate Giotto created the Shroud in 1315 – and that it is a copy of the original which had been damaged and was then lost over the centuries…

Mr Buso’s insists that 700 years ago it was common practice for artists to insert partial dates into their works so as to guarantee their authenticity and it was known only to a handful of people so as to avoid forgeries.

In an interesting twist, Buso tells reporters that he believes the current shroud is merely a replicate of the original; the original, he says, was, indeed, the sheet that was placed over Jesus’ body after his death. So, unlike other critics, he believes that Christ resurrected and that there was a sheet, at some point, that showcased related imagery.

The reason the shroud was duplicated, you ask? Buso believes it may have been so tattered that the Catholic Church asked the artist to create a new version. He thinks that the original fabric was lost or burned sometime after the replicate was made, leaving only the artists’ rendition behind.

Critics cast serious doubt on this theory, as they maintain that the shroud the contemporary world has come to know is the original. Interestingly, to this day experts have not been able to figure out how the image that exists on the current version was created.

This new theory only adds to the mystique that surrounds the Shroud of Turin. Currently, the famed religious symbol is owned by the Vatican and is kept in a “protective chamber in a chapel in Turin Cathedral.” The relic has only been shown publicly a hand full of times over the past century. According to the Telegraph:

It was first brought to Europe after the crusades and according to one theory was guarded by the Knights Templar during the 13th and 14th centuries. It was then said to have passed in 1453 to the Savoy family of France.

In the 1980s radiocarbon dating tests suggested that it was a medieval forgery, although those results were later disputed.

What do you think? Is the shroud Jesus Christ’s burial cloth or is it simply a man-made piece of artwork?

Comments (207)

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  • elrond3737
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:38am

    This in not an attack on Christianity, only…perhaps… on Relics.
    The shroud is not real or at least not of Jesus. Read the bible. The bible describes Jesus as being wrapped in 2 cloths(Which was the tradition of the time): one for his head and one for his body. .
    Another interesting fact is Jesus is always potrayed with long hair. But The apostle Paul talks about how men should wear their hair short (and women long) and short hair was the style of the times. Why would he say that if he knew the Lord had long hair…because he didn’t. Besides the very earliest pictures of Jesus show him with short hair…and no beard. His popular image today is based off of middle ages painters guesses. At that time long hair was more popular.
    The shroud shows a tall skinny European man …are we to assume this also. Again a middle ages view. As a carpenter I would tend to think he was more husky (I always like the potrayal of him in the movie Mathew). And of course he was of the house of David and that mean Jewish/semite.

    Report Post » elrond3737  
  • Michigan Vacation
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:31am

    Does this book mention the Sudarium of Oviedo?

    There are two separate clothes in this discussion, both were wrapped around Christ upon his death. But each took it’s own path though history – they also support one another.

    Report Post »  
  • angelcat
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:04am

    Even if the Shroud were proven to be a complete fake, it wouldn’t make one iota of difference to those who truly believe in God. It is not an article of faith of any religion that I know about. These desperate attempts to try to prove it a fake seem to me to be more about those who have to believe it IS a fake to hold on to their lack of faith and disdain for those who DO believe.

    Report Post »  
  • StevenL1955
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:59am

    Even National Geographic and the Science Channel debunked this story years ago. There’s a pattern on the Shroud with three spots (maybe Blood) and in a picture from years before the shroud was supposed to eh..faked

    Report Post » StevenL1955  
  • lhills
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:48am

    My fellow Christians, it doesn’t matter if the shroud is a fake. We are told in the Bible not to worship objects. The scriptures intentionally do not include a description of Christ and one of the ten commandments is not to worship graven images. There are no holy objects. We need only faith in Christ. The worship of anything else (even supposed Christian artifacts) is idolatry. The shroud means nothing. Even if it is the “real” shroud, it is nothing more than a piece of cloth and to believe otherwise is a distraction from Christ himself. The only thing we ought to be focusing on from the life of Jesus are his teachings and resurrection. Not the shroud he was wrapped in, the sandals he wore, the blankets in the manger, or any other such nonsense. Those are just meaningless non-living, non-holy things and we are doing ourselves a grave disservice by obsessing over them.

    Report Post » lhills  
  • ashestoashes
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:44am

    What about the blood found on the shroud of Turan. Wasn’t it the rarest blood type in the world, AB negative?.

    Report Post »  
    • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:44am

      So …?

      Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • marjorie faye
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:20am

      One of my relatives has AB negative blood type. But that person is not Christ. The shroud has nothing to do with our Christian faith. Catholicism is much too concerned with relics. Jesus said, “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

      Report Post »  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:32am

    Oh wow, it’s in a book, it’s got to be true then.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
    • quizibo
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:13am

      Funny you feel that way about this guys book and not Glenn Becks. Glenn Becks books are full of nonsense, warped history and inconsistent dogma.

      Report Post » quizibo  
  • john654
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:30am

    http://paranormal.about.com/od/incorruptibles/Incorruptibles.htm

    John

    Report Post »  
  • jim
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:24am

    Luciano Buso failed to read all the existing evidence. If he did, he could only conclude, as some of the leading scientists in the world did, years ago, when they examined the shroud using their own instruments and under their own conditions, that the image was not painted onto the shroud, but was burned into it using a near “lasar-like” technology which does not exist today. No modern lasar technology can create a detailed 3-dimensional, front and back photo imprint, on two sides of a cloth simultaneously — the so-called “photo negative” image effect — using current technology. The lack of pigmentation on the shroud caused the scientists to rule out paint as a means to create the image. Further, the fact that during the image making process, the shroud shows evidence of being pulled taught, both top and bottom sheets, and the figure lay flat inbetween without touching the sheets, as the imaging was done. The unknown “lasar-like” light source seems to have eminated from the figure itself, in order to create the photo negative image. As the scientists did then, we may find ourselves uttering the word, “miracle,” based on purely scientific evidence and testimony. Too bad Buso doesn’t have access to the Internet, or a good library.

    Report Post » jim  
  • Redistributor
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:23am

    Point of clarification: The image on the shroud is commonly associated with Jesus Christ, his crucifixion and burial and not his ressurection.

    Report Post »  
  • Concerned Green Beret
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:18am

    Yet another attempt to TRY to dismantle Christianity. These people just don’t get it. Our faith has nothing to do with the science of what can be proven. Our faith is based only on faith. Something they may never understand until….. well you know. They think Christians can be bullied into their way of thinking. They need to study history just a little bit. Start with let’s say like when the Romans were feeding Christians to the lions, because they would not convert to some man made idolatry. Let’s see how far they want to take it this time, and more importantly how far we will let them take it. The sword and shield of God is with us.

    Report Post »  
    • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:22am

      But the question is WHY do you have faith?

      If I had faith in Leprechauns would it be justifiable? If not why not?

      Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:43am

      I don’t know about justifiable…but if I came across some Leprechaun believers…..I wouldn’t make fun of them….I would probably just keep it to myself…why would I want to make a nuisance of myself?…How are they hurting me?…..You are proselyting your atheism…no?

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • Concerned Green Beret
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:51am

      I have faith, because I am a weak, very weak, and very ignorant man. I do not have the intelligence to understand the higher levels of critical thinking that has been bestowed upon the elite few in our societies of the world. Also, because I am weak and ignorant I have failed to live up to my potential as a man. Therefore, I must clutch on to my guns, and bible and have faith and hope in the things that are unseen. This weakness and ignorance has carried me throughout several battlefields around the world spanning over two decades. I live in my ignorant bliss.

      Report Post »  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:04am

      There you go, Sir…I’m weak also

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:05am

      I’m no philosopher, dude..lol…I don’t know

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:10am

      I was posting to LACT about the philosophy thing.

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:10am

      Green B. stick with me and I’ll show you how critical thinking works.

      It works mostly opposite to how Glenn Beck’s mind works, for example.

      Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • Bigliardi
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:35am

      Truth is, this makes old liberalatheistcriticalthinker feel relevant….She has nothing else going for her so she chooses a subject that is insulting to 99 percent of the people on these boards…A subject where she is sure to get a lot of responses, and along the way begins mistakenly thinking that the reason she is getting such a great number of responses is because she is so interestiing. Her name says it all….LiberalAtheistCriticalThinker….A screen name intended to offend….I think she is like a child who says outrageous things and who pretends to live in a fantasy world just so Mom and Dad will notice her…sigh….poor, poor baby…..

      Report Post »  
    • This_Individual
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:32pm

      @LIBERAL – No. As I respect your views of being an athiest. At times though, you read as someone who is no different from those in this forum who wish to proslytize and condemn others for not believing in what you do.

      Report Post »  
  • riseandshine
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:07am

    I’m genuinely surprised to learn that there are perhaps millions? of people who believe that to be the actual shroud put over Jesus…No offense to anyone….I just had no idea.

    Report Post » riseandshine  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:51am

    Do you know how you can tell the child the Father loves the most? It is the child that the Father does the least amount for, and lets the child learn in Liberty. And men have forgotten the Father, and they have forgotten just how crucial it is to let their children learn in Liberty. Give your children to God to let them learn in Liberty, as God had given Adam to men so that Adam would learn in Liberty.

    Report Post »  
    • WSGAC
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:17am

      No Eliasim, that’s what you call a deadbeat dad!

      Report Post »  
  • jscovell
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:51am

    I could careless!! Jesus Christ doesn’t care about this stuff. Burn it I don’t care. These material things have no effect on ones salvation or relationship with Jesus Christ. The only people who glorify this junk is Catholicism which has placed Jesus in a huge bureaucratic religion.

    Report Post »  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:03am

      It would be like burning the favorite picture of your favorite deceased relative but only much worse because it effects all mankind who are in love with this Man. Catholics don’t worship material things, they only look to them as gifts from God and are very thankful at the least for the gift.

      Report Post »  
  • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:48am

    It’s a fake (see below)

    By the way, I want to complain about the lack of religious news stories I can mock on the Blaze lately – Weiner is taking all the air our of this site! Please post more silly religious stories!

    Thank you.

    *****

    “The results of radiocarbon measurements at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated calendar age range with at least 95% confidence for the linen of the Shroud of Turin of AD 1260 – 1390 (rounded down/up to nearest 10 yr). These results therefore provide conclusive evidence that the linen of the Shroud of Turin is medieval. ”

    http://www.shroud.com/nature.htm

    Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • Mandors
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:06am

      Wrong.

      Those tests have been dismissed as scientifically inaccurate. The researchers took samples from the repaired areas. The Vatican would not let them take samples from the main cloth. This doesn’t establish the authenticity of the cloth. But citing faulty evidence, doesn’t help either.

      Report Post » Mandors  
    • LOOKING_BOTH_WAYS
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:10am

      sorry to pop your bubble ….LIMITED THINKER

      Criticisms have been raised regarding the sample taken for testing (it may have come from medieval repair fragments),

      Report Post »  
    • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:13am

      “The Turin shroud already underwent carbon-14 dating in 1988. At that time, three reputable laboratories in Oxford, Zurich and Tucson, Ariz., concluded that the cloth on which the smudged outline of the body of a man is indelibly impressed was a medieval fake dating from between 1260 and 1390, and not the burial cloth wrapped around the body of Christ.”

      http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36027227/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/could-new-test-settle-shroud-turin-debate/

      Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:53am

      Why do you merely post the same story after its validity has been challenged? It‘s like you’re not even dealing with the arguments. Not much of a “critical” way of thinking.

      I’m looking forward to someone duplicating this work. We have people who do forgeries of all kinds of Renaisance art. Why not this? If it could be done then it should be possible now. If not…….hmmmm.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:54am

      I now have checkmated you. I know that test is flawed. I did this to show people that religious people WILL accept science when it tends to bolster their position. For example you accept science when it shows accurate ages (in this case of a patched area on the shroud) and the investigation and correction of it’s analysis. Yea, that’s OK.

      But when it comes to science that shows your god belief is a delusion (such as evolution or dating the Earth or Universe), you will dismiss the science.

      See how you will plead that SCIENCE is a GREAT tool when it backs your position? You can’t have it both ways. Either science is a valid tool or it isn’t.

      Thank you for this opportunity to show everyone how you can compartmentalize your delusions so neatly. Just as I expected. You people are mere toys in my hands here. You are not yet ready to debate me yet, you lack the training. But if you follow me here you might pick it up, if you pay attention.

      Report Post » Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker  
    • Michigan Vacation
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:29am

      Not only was it the sampling area incomplete – but the analysis proved that as well. it found overwhelming cotton fibers throughout the samples analyzed – - The shroud is not made of cotton, it is made 100% with FLAX.
      But don’t let that get in the way.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:05am

      Ops!….Posted in the wrong place the first time.

      @Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker

      The carbon dating process used and other factors have been debunked for a long time.
      Try to be informed before you make a fool of yourself. Unless that is your intent of coarse.

      “New, rigorously peer-reviewed scientific findings, demonstrate that the single sample shared by three laboratories was not part of the shroud’s cloth. Conclusion: the carbon dating is not valid.”
      http://www.shroudstory.com/

      Failure in the 1988 Carbon 14 Dating
      http://www.shroudstory.com/faq-carbon-14.htm

      Shroud of Turin Carbon Dating Biggest Radiocarbon Mistake Ever
      http://factsplusfacts.com/

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_14_dating_of_the_Shroud_of_Turin

      Shall I go on?
      There is a whole world of information on the internet. If one chooses to use it to find the truth.
      Or in your case, to support your bias……………

      Report Post »

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:11am

      Liberal_Atheist_Critical_Thinker
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:54am
      I now have checkmated you. I know that test is flawed. I did this to show people that religious people WILL accept science when it tends to bolster their position. For example you accept science when it shows accurate ages (in this case of a patched area on the shroud) and the investigation and correction of it’s analysis. Yea, that’s OK.
      ————————————————————————————————-

      You checkmated yourself in your ignorance and bias.
      Thats a pretty lame way to try to come out on top of this conversation if you ask me!
      I ain’t fallen for it and neither is anyone else…….YOU LOSE AGAIN!!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • Bigliardi
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:21am

      Dr. Robert Lee wrote: The carbon dating technique is absolutely flawed….while the dating of the Shroud of Turin was supposed to be a blind test, the control specimens were not at all similar, and the technicians from the three laboratories could easily tell which pieces were from the shroud….The only way the tests could have been valid is if the test subjects had been reduced to carbon powder before testing…Humans are biased, we tend to see what we wish to see, and to explain away any unwanted data…And recently LIBATH some live mollusks off the coast of Hawaii were carbon dated…..The result showed that their shells had died two thousand years ago….Anyway, liberalatheist…..back at you….It could be real, It could be fake, It could be Leonardo….No, Leonardo DAVINCI Not DiCaprio…So who wins here…?

      Report Post »  
    • Bigliardi
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:24am

      I knew you would be skulking around this thread…..It is fitting that you should post only on something which cannot be proven either way….This way you can’t ever be wrong, can you….?

      Report Post »  
    • Bhaub
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:43am

      Bigliardi
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:24am

      I knew you would be skulking around this thread…..It is fitting that you should post only on something which cannot be proven either way….This way you can’t ever be wrong, can you….?
      —————————————————————–

      That’s… pretty much the definition of religion. Only you add in some stuff about how you have to do X and follow Y or else you suffer eternal torment in Z. THEN it’s real religion.

      If you don’t keep your finger in your nose for three hours each day when facing West, you will forever be torn into small pieces by the four-headed demon Mortlzort. Prove me wrong.

      Report Post » Bhaub  
    • Islesfordian
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:03am

      Interesting (I mean idiotic) argument, thinker.

      You point to a bad scientific test. It is pointed out as flawed. You respond, “A ha! I KNEW it was flawed, but now you have shown that you believe in SCIENCE, and science proves your God is false.”

      Yeah….., what we demonstrated is that we believe in SOUND science and not FLAWED science. Your test was recognized as flawed. Your proposed scientific “proof” that God doesn’t exists can also be seen as flawed.

      The fact is there is no such thing as Science as a uniform body of thought. Science is a process and an ongoing argument. It is a tool of investigation that can only hope to gradually evolve toward a greater understanding. Many seek to make it replace the authoritative place of religious doctrine and speak of it as having an authoritative voice. But their authorities today are always vulnerable to the revolutions of tomorrow, unless they can stifle and arrest the scientific process to make their present or desired conclusions permanent dogma.

      You have managed to checkmate yourself playing checkers. Well done. Your mother should be proud.

      Report Post » Islesfordian  
    • Red1492
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:06pm

      Those tests were dismissed by Vatican “scientists”. When the Vatican didn’t get the answer they wanted, they called in people who would.

      Report Post » Red1492  
    • RN MOM
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:21pm

      What does it truly matter about whether or not the Shroud’s carbon date is accurate? Science has been wrong before. To have this argument with a Catholic is just a veiled attempt to bait them into the argument that Jesus never really existed. This is why Catholics get so upset about the scientific community’s assertion. Yet, we need to remember that the 3 labs did show Jesus existed, and here is my evidence:

      “at Arizona, Oxford and Zurich yield a calibrated calendar age range with at least 95% confidence for the linen of the Shroud of Turin of AD 1260 – 1390″ Obviously the labs are using the date of AD because they accept without question that Jesus existed.

      Catholics don‘t worship images or idols made in Jesus’ image- we use them to visualize Jesus so that we can pray or worship him. No matter the date, the effect is the same, it calls us to think about how Jesus died at the hands of a mob that were envious of him and the power he had. How he was beaten, mocked, and forced to drag his own cross to his own violent death. He died, was buried and rose three days later, came before his disciples and preached for 40 days before he bodily ascended into heaven and is now seated at the right hand of our father.

      The date doesn’t matter much, just that it was done for us!

      Report Post » RN MOM  
  • riseandshine
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:47am

    Gee…and I thought it was the real thing.

    Report Post » riseandshine  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:26am

      I sent the post before I went back and read that it was an item held sacred by those of the Catholic faith…I apologize to any that I may have offended. Peace

      Report Post » riseandshine  
  • REDwhiteBLUEcommrade
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:33am

    It is a fake and someone else has done it. I forget the gentlemans name but I saw them do it on tv. You take a mask and place it underneath the shroud and dab paint over the top of the mask. That also explains the raised images from the spectrograph they did in the 90′s. You people feel that you have to defend everything about your religion, instead of trying to weed out the imposters in your ranks. Wake up and look at the evidence because none of it matches up.

    Report Post » REDwhiteBLUEcommrade  
    • Mandors
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:58am

      What show? Please do not pull fake evidence BS that is typical to atheistic bigots. As of yet there is no solid theory on how the image was made.

      One of the best theories was presented on NOVA (real show on PBS) several years ago that demonstrated that bacteria on dead body releases chemicals that would stain cloth in a similar manner (color, etc.) to what is seen on the shroud.

      Report Post » Mandors  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:33am

      And others have proven that there was no ‘paint’ or pigments involved.
      It’s not a religious thing. It’s a truth thing whether or not the shroud is a fake or not.
      The image could be anyone as far as we know from research and facts.
      But!…It might be Jesus…….might not be………..

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • christos
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:24am

    …….Absolutely,is not the face of +JESUS+,,,,,,,

    Report Post » christos  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:26am

      ‘Absolutely’ or your opinion?
      Absolutes require facts. Do you have any to add to your ‘claim’?
      Not saying I know, just wondering why you think you do……….

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • Bushie
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:04am

    Bush did it.

    Report Post » Bushie  
  • Eliasim
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:04am

    People tend to like the magical or dare I say sorcery side of descriptions. When Jesus was crucified they rent his garments, and soldiers cast lots for Jesus’ “coat” that was “woven from the top throughout.” They cast lots for Jesus’ skin and bones in my opinion. When Jesus was seen coming across the sea, it was Jesus spirit coming over and throughout a large multitude of people, in my opinion. For what other reason could it be if it is not these things, that when the Apostles saw Jesus after the crucifixion, that at first they didn’t recognize him?

    Report Post »  
    • Eliasim
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:18am

      God isn’t going to come throwing lightning bolts at all the enemies of freedom, and if you believe that then people will go to captivity. That‘s how it is that God doesn’t show his face, and it is why it is that Jesus taught and showed self sacrifice. If God was to do too much whereby men knew for sure that it was God the Father, then surely men would just “Shutdown” and do nothing while hoping for the Father in Heaven to do it for them. Like a spoiled child.

      Report Post »  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:17am

      Who cares about your ‘opinion’ and presumtion.
      I’m going with the eye witness accounts!

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:53am

      His garment was not rent.They cast lots for it.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 3:19pm

      Right BOMUSTGO. The veil in the temple was rent, and The Father did it.
      No more separation from God because of Jesus’ sacrificial death on the cross.

      Report Post » Rational Man  
  • New Dawn Comin
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:02am

    If people of faith didn’t try to make others live by rules they come up with, maybe there wouldn’t be as big a push agaisnt it. Live and let live. I’ve never been a religous person but i think we can all agree on morals and values that can be learned from religon. Individual rights first. And it doesn‘t really matter if it’s real or fake, people will believe whatever they want.

    Report Post »  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 8:23am

      Sound words

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:02am

      New
      If Rise agrees with you ,you must be wrong. Hope when the tolerant ******* come again , your family is in the top floor of the building. We can all agree on that . Right?

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:12am

      Whoooah. I‘m not Muslim and i don’t tolerate terrorists

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:46am

      There is a way which seems right unto man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.Being good does not save the soul.It’s about relationship.It’s about being born again.See ACTS 2:38

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • New Dawn Comin
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:31pm

      13th imam you obviously are a very moral person who has learned alot from your religion.

      Report Post »  
    • adamah379
      Posted on June 9, 2011 at 2:38am

      It’s true “people will believe whatever they want.” We should all want to believe in the truth! The truth is that the eyewitnesses saw sheets and a handkerchief (or napkin) in separate places John 20:1-8 Yes, it’s true, “people will believe whatever they want”. Just what or who do you believe?

      Report Post »  
  • LindaB11
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:49am

    There is also, reports that it is the face of DaVinci as well.

    Report Post »  
  • NoObama012 XBOX
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:47am

    Just another God hatter!

    Report Post »  
  • Rob
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:44am

    It won’t change weak minds…

    Report Post »  
    • liferanger
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:09am

      Shroud, new testiment burrial account, THEY DON’T AGREE. New testiment account, with know Jewish burrial costoms, states that there was a 100+ pounds of linen strips with a face cloth. The folded face cloth is what confounded Peter. He saw the cacoon like gummed strips (still in the body shape) but the face cloth was laid aside and folded. Read it for your self.

      …and oh yeh, he held his beief until he was cruficied (upside down).

      Would you die for a lie you started?

      Report Post »  
    • momprayn
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:16am

      LIFE – yes, I’ve often thought the same things – thanks

      Report Post »  
    • Bear
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:16am

      LFERANGER!

      Would a murderer die for a murder he committed,, Yes,he would not have a choice,he is being executed! Peter did not have a choice,they executed him, He knew he would not have a choice! Would the Heavens gate people Commit suicide to go to a Space ship that did not exist,,Yes! Would Suicide Bombers blow themselves up because of the 72 Virgins they were not going to have as wives,,,yes! So you are saying because someone died for a belief that there could never be someone Radical enough to die for something that isn’t true? I mean its not like the Middle Eastern Region of the world is known for spawning Radical points of Religious view that could even get followers willing to die horrible deaths! Sorry I don’t buy that,,,Just because Some one has a belief and is willing to die for it,,doesn’t mean the belief is true,Just ask the Manson Family and their victims,,,Charles Manson existed,had followers and teachings, but was not a Saviour or a prophet!

      Report Post » Bear  
    • BOMUSTGO
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:31am

      LIFERANGER..You are correct as to the way the Messiah was burried. Wrapped in many strips of lenin covered in the spices that hardened into a shell.If the face cloth was not removed, they would have thought the body was still in the shell. Yeshua (Jesus) removed the face cloth to show them that he had risen.The remaining shell was empty.His resurrected body passed through it.

      Report Post » BOMUSTGO  
    • Bhaub
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:41am

      Also, when Jesus came back from the dead, it was the first zombie hoard. All the graves opened. Weird that less people mention that.

      Report Post » Bhaub  
    • adamah379
      Posted on June 9, 2011 at 1:44am

      Shoud the strong not help the weak? Helping others to understand biblical truths is a very noble act. And, honorable, too. The disciple John believed after he saw the burial sheets in one place and the napkin (or handkerchief) folded in another place John 20:8. Why not go ahead and read John 20:1-8. The eyewitnesses saw sheets. Meaning more than one. The Shroud of Turin is but one sheet. And, where in the Shroud of Turin is the blank space for the handkerchief that covered Jesus’ face? John 20:7 Romans 10:17. Become stronger in the faith.

      Report Post »  
  • kestrel27
    Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:39am

    I for one have to laugh at the subtle and somewhat desperate attempts by Christianityphobes to dismiss the shroud of Turin as a fake, copy, whatever. They can’t stand that there is something that takes godhood away from themselves and places it in the realm of the unknown. Why, because that would mean there is something out there they cannot control and their little fantasy world they have cocooned themselves in might turn out to be a fake like everything else they believe. Notice how with that crowd, everything is nuanced, shades of grey, and even very complicated, which indicates YOU don’t understand like they do.

    Report Post »  
    • Mannax
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:47am

      Or perhaps you lack understanding. Religion is solely about faith. Either you believe in your chosen religion or you don’t. What I find humorous is those who are so fearful of religion that they feel that they have to belittle and make fun of those with a religion (or a religion that differs from theirs).

      As for the subject at hand. I don’t believe the Shroud is the one that covered Jesus. The “face”’ in the shroud looks way to European. Jesus would have looked Middle Eastern rather then European. But if it makes people feel better, then please believe in it.

      /Me, I am not Christian.
      //You should believe in something or you will fall for anything.

      Report Post »  
    • watchmany2k
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:02am

      Hummm, then it should be easy for an “art expert” to create someting similar.
      Something with the same carbon dating,
      the same material,
      the same pollen from only that region,
      that is a negative
      that is a 3d negative
      that has no “brush” strokes
      etc, etc….
      yet, not one “art expert” has created one to date.
      What we have here is an art PUNDIT who carefully examined photographs
      and tailored a story to fit his belief.
      lame opinion.
      Next….

      Report Post » watchmany2k  
    • Mandors
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:52am

      You’re right Watchman, the author is a dope. He ignores all the research to promote a half baked theory that has little to back it up. Typical European academic sensationalism.

      Report Post » Mandors  
    • Rational Man
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:08am

      Kesrel27 and Watchmany2k beat me to it!…Not much else to say…….
      @Mannax
      True Christianity is not a ‘religion’…..It’s a relationship!
      And I see nothing ‘European’ about the face on the shroud.
      I don‘t know if it is Jesus’ face, but it has been proven through research that it is not a fake.
      Just not proven to be Jesus. And not proven not to be………………..

      Report Post » Rational Man  
    • momprayn
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:12am

      @ MANNAX – With all due respect, I’m a Christian (nonCathollic) and speaking for myself, my family, others I know over many years – most of us are not “fearful” of religion. We believe the Bible to be from God and try to live as Jesus, New Testament teaches — which says there is no other way to the Father in heaven (salvation) than through Jesus (no other religion) and He commanded us to out and reach others so they won’t go to everlasting hell w/no second chance (no purgatory). That is why we speak out against other religions but try to do it with respect & only if given the opportunity – and don’t push. Sadly, a lot don’t do as they should but have good intentions. Few there are that “walk the talk”. That’s the huge problem. It‘s not God’s fault that men don‘t do that and it doesn’t make the Bible false or God nonexistent. Plenty of scientific/archaeological proofs beyond reasonable doubt:
      http://www.allabouttruth.org http://www.creationevidence.org answersingenesis.org
      http://www.chrsitiananswers.net/archaeology/ http://www.dancingfromgenesis.wordpress.com
      Book: Scientists Who Believe (Amazon)
      As to the shroud: it doesn’t matter to most – it’s not needed for our faith at all

      Report Post »  
    • militiaman
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:14am

      It’s always been a mystery to me why atheists feel so desperately pressed to try to convince the whole world that we are no more than matter in motion and that a belief in God is nonsense.

      I’ve always been agnostic, but whether others believe in a spiritual after life bothers me not the least. They could be right. I just don’t know. I think, however, that the spitituality that has the greatest evidence in favor of it’s belief system is reincarnation, but I’m not ready to accept that just yet either without more evidence to support the theory. Buddism includes reincarnation as part of its tenants. At one time Christianity did before the concept was submerged by keepers of the faith.

      Whether it is Christianity, Judaism, Buddism, Hinduism, or whatever, I envy people who can truly take solace in believing there is something later on after this incarnation is complete, and that their beliefs are not based in a desire to demand everyone accept their tenants 100% or they feel compelled to kill them in order to convert them, which, of course, is what Islam has been all about for centuries now.

      The excuse by atheists that they fight against a belief in God because they claim too much bloodshed has occurred in global history has occurred under the name of one religion or another seems disingenuous to me, because I’ve never heard or read from even one atheist any evidence that he/she is concerned with humanitarianism.

      Report Post »  
    • CaptainKook
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:19am

      I for one have to laugh at the subtle and somewhat desperate attempts by Christianityphobes to dismiss the shroud of Turin as a fake, copy, whatever.
      What’s to laugh at?

      The Shroud was ID’d as dating from the Middle ages – not Biblical times – years ago.

      This new opinion merely seeks to suggest that there may have been an “original” of which this is a copy – but there is zero evidence supporting that.

      Alternatively, there was a book published in the 1960s that claimed that Christ was alive when he was taken down from the cross.
      “The Passover Plot” – very interesting.
      http://www.amazon.com/Passover-Plot-Special-40th-Anniversary/dp/1932857095

      Here’s the trailer for a movie version:
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6—itsv98

      Report Post »  
    • Anonymous T. Irrelevant
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:20am

      I am a Christian, but I have an open mind. I think they are probably correct. The shroud looks mam-made to me. To me, it looks so symetrical that perhaps it was only painted on one half of the sheet and then folded to create the other half. I just don’t see how a sheet could pick up so much detail if it sits above the body, especially when some of the body parts would have been 3-4 inches below the sheet. Do people believe the “aura” of Christ caused the image to appear on the sheet?

      Report Post » Anonymous T. Irrelevant  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:37am

      It seems that God has given us many signs of His Son’s existence, but we CHOOSE to ignore them because they’re not of this world or easily explainable be man. Some of the most outstanding are the Shroud or Turin, the Blessed Virgin’s appearance on the tilma at Guadalupe, 15000 people at Fatima and the dancing of the sun, the First Eucharistic Miracle at Lanciano … etc. Catholics don‘t have as much trouble beleiving in these things because they don’t see any limits on what God can provide or do. Any belief in God, His Son, or the Holy Spirit is good but those that put no limitations on Him grow closer to Him in the fullness of faith.

      Report Post »  
    • Bear
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:40am

      The Shroud is a fake! My God,some of you people would believe Jesus image has appeared on several hundred different potato chips too! Out of all the supposed Miracles that was recorded in the new Testament, the Resurrection was the most important one for a Christians faith! Why is there no account from the ladies that found his body that his image had been cast to his burial Cloth,,,they found them empty? and the New Testament was written for years, Decades after his death by the Apostles and none mentioned the Image of Jesus on a shroud? No were in the Scriptures is it mentioned! At a period of Time when forgeries were running rampant in the Religious Community its easy to see how a Soldier would get suckered in to such a purchase far from home or saw a chance to bring back such a valuable from his crusades to the Holy land,,,,or better yet the Church could Justify such Carnage by giving the Public what they were dying for,,,Jesus! I can’t believe so many people,with out proof, believe something that Jesus or his Disciples didn’t even make reference to,but then again we did get a pretty good Indiana Jones adventure and a funny Monte Python movie about a Holy Grail,Something not mentioned in the Scriptures either,But it just must be true, One can not Question the will of God or his faithful!

      Report Post » Bear  
    • CaptainKook
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:42am

      seems that God has given us many signs of His Son’s existence, but we CHOOSE to ignore them because they’re not of this world or easily explainable be man. Some of the most outstanding are the Shroud or Turin, the Blessed Virgin’s appearance on the tilma at Guadalupe, 15000 people at Fatima and the dancing of the sun, the First Eucharistic Miracle at Lanciano … etc.

      I know a guy who says the Virgin Mary is visible on the sole of his right foot.

      I decliined his offer to show it to me because it was a hot day and I didn’t want to get that close to his sweaty self.

      Report Post »  
    • stifroc
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:47am

      This is nothing new.
      The discovery Channel was putting forth this theory YEARS ago. I watched “expose’” stories on the shroud and they even tried to reproduce it. Every single reproduction was a failure. Is the shroud the true burial cloth of Christ? Cannot be “proven” but there is also absolutely no proof that it was created by a Renaissance Artist either.

      Report Post » stifroc  
    • sbeejustsaying
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:59am

      Whether its real or fake how does that PROVE that there is no God and how does that prove that Jesus Christ is not God incarnate?

      Report Post » sbeejustsaying  
    • marjorie faye
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:10am

      Militiaman,
      Christianity NEVER taught a doctrine of reincarnation. Jesus never so much as hinted at reincarnation. His chosen Apostles never hinted at reincarnation.

      “And just as each person is destined to die once and after that comes judgment, so also Christ died once for all time as a sacrifice to take away the sins of many people. He will come again, not to deal with our sins, but to bring salvation to all who are eagerly waiting for him.” Hebrews 9:27-28 (NLT, for ease of understanding).

      This is the gold standard in Christianity. If reincarnation were true, then every time you are reincarnated, you die again and face judgment again. Seems like a nasty business, and certainly heretical as far as Christian doctrine. It contradicts Scripture.

      Report Post »  
    • FormerLib
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:14am

      As a committed and practicing Christian myself,I do not understand why so many of my brothers need some physical evidence of the existence of Biblical truth. God has given us all the evidence we need, the evidence of the intricacy and complex systematic order of creation, as stated in the book of Romans. Depending on relics, miracles, signs, and so on is a statement of unbelief, not faith, because it indicates that for the believer, the Word of God is not enough. I firmly believe God purposely does not allow us definitive proof one way or another, just as He did not see fit to offer a physical description of Jesus, and no intact artwork from that period depicting Christ, because then the element of trust and faith is lost. The entire point of the Gospel is coming to a saving faith in Christ. When we demand physical evidence, we go against what Jesus Himself taught, in this paraphrase: “you want evidence before you believe, but you won’t see until you do believe, because it is by faith you are saved”. Proof does not require faith.

      Report Post »  
    • Bhaub
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:39am

      militiaman
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 9:14am

      It’s always been a mystery to me why atheists feel so desperately pressed to try to convince the whole world that we are no more than matter in motion and that a belief in God is nonsense.
      ————————————

      It’s largely because it encourages people to ignore evidence, blindly obey evil or dangerous laws, commit violence and discourage learning. There are massive amounts of negative results from religion’s influence. All religions. So long as people think they have the ONLY correct set of magical god-rules, they’re going to attempt to push them onto others; often forcefully. The only reason we currently have this big Middle Eastern war is religion. Folks don’t blow themselves up because of atheism, after all. Atheists aren’t making up rewards or punishments in an afterlife and making you obey. We encourage you to research, be skeptical and think logically.

      If I tell you that you need to wash your hands in order to avoid illness, and claim it‘s because of the Purple Transparent Sky Manatee’s curses of 1,000 Boils, you should rightly think I’m nuts and demand something backing it.

      If I tell you that you should wash your hands because of tiny germs you can’t see, you should STILL think I’m nuts and demand evidence. And then when you HAVE the evidence, you can agree and wash your hands.

      That’s why. :)

      Report Post » Bhaub  
    • DTOM_Jericho (escaped PA)
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:41am

      Really? The shroud could never be real. Just read Scripture. He was wrapped in STRIPS of cloth and His head was wrapped SEPARATELY!!!! Scripture says quite clearly “as was the custom of the Jews to do so”. Seriously… THINK!

      Report Post » DTOM_Jericho (Creator vindicator)  
    • riaf-decnalab
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 10:41am

      @FORMERLIB

      This is a picture of Christ. This doesn’t interest you? I’m not dependent on it but it sure counts as a major blessing and gift from God to us. It bolsters my faith even more.

      Report Post »  
    • HillsGal
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:23am

      The Shroud of Turin will remain a mystery until the end of time. There are somethings you have to take on faith even if proof is lacking. Even Jesus Christ said this himself – Blessed are they who have not seen and believed…Besides the Shroud of Turin there are many events surrounded by mystery and miracles:
      1.The Holy House of Loreto – once located in Nazareth survived the Crusades and the invasion of the Seljukian Turks in 1090. It disappeared from its site and on 10 May,1291 shepherds Tersatto, now Yugoslavia found the house. The house was moved to its final location on the Hill of Loreto and the Mother of God said it was the house of the Holy Family. Many visit this Holy House and receive both physical and spiritual blessings.
      2.Miracle of the Sun of Fatima – three young children began to have visits from the Mother of God who asked them to pray for peace as God was displeased with man. Many Pilgrims began to come to the site. On the 13th of October, 1917, a miracle as promised occurred. Between 30,000 and 100,000 gathered in the rain when they looked up into the sky and the sun broke through the clouds and began to spin wildly and come out of its orbit heading for the earth in a zig-zag fashion with a multitude of colors flashing on the earth. The children remained calm and the sun went back to its place. Many witnessed this event. Two of the children died early, Lucia entered a cloistered convent and died on14 February, 2005.

      Open your hearts to find

      Report Post »  
    • militiaman
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:24am

      marjorie faye
      Militiaman,
      “Christianity NEVER taught a doctrine of reincarnation. Jesus never so much as hinted at reincarnation. His chosen Apostles never hinted at reincarnation. ”

      Jesus identified John the Baptist as the reincarnation of Elijah:

      “For all the prophets and the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come. (Matt. 11:13-14)” The Disciples of Jesus asked him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?” His answer was: “Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.” (Matt. 17:10-13)

      “And he [John the Baptist] will go on before the Lord, in the spirit and power of Elijah. (Luke 1:17)”

      “This is the one … there has not risen anyone greater than John the Baptist … And if you are willing to accept it, he is the Elijah who was to come. He who has ears, let him hear. (Matt. 11:11-15)”

      There are many more quotes, suggestive of reincarnation in both the old and new testament. Early on the gnostics taught reincarnation as part of the Christian faith revealed by scrolls as important as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Origen formed Christianity around reincarnation.

      The doctrine of reincarnation existed as secret teachings of Jesus until they were declared a heresy by the Roman Church.

      True or

      Report Post »  
    • TomFerrari
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:43am

      Doesn’t matter.

      Faith is all I need, and works are the results of that faith.

      Report Post » TomFerrari  
    • JRook
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 11:58am

      Well I will agree that whatever the higher power or energy force is in the universe it is indeed unknown. As all the attempts by man to manufacture a religious story to explain the larger universe, life and the like fall woefully short. We don’t have a clue and therefor certainly no basis to claim that anyone group or religion have it right or are closer to this higher power or energy.

      Report Post »  
    • Lloyd Drako
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 12:30pm

      Assume the Shroud is 2000 years old, and authentically the imprint of a human body. Could be Jesus, could be somebody’s uncle Jedediah. Who’s to say?

      Report Post » Lloyd Drako  
    • VaModMember
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 2:42pm

      I’m CATHOLIC and this is not news. The church has NEVER (last 50-yrs) allowed it to be treated in a way that would indicate it was real.

      And I do beleive in GOD and that JESUS is his son. but 2,000-yr old scraps of cloth in THAT big and in THAT good of shape just don’t exist

      Report Post »  
    • Rowgue
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 3:27pm

      @Watchman

      Sorry to burst your bubble, but they successfully reproduced an almost identical copy of the shroud of turin using a camera obscura. There isn‘t one single shred of evidence that suggests it’s authentic. Every test ever conducted and scientific analysis done on the shroud has suggested the exact opposite. There may have once been such a shroud, but the one currently being passed off as authentic is clearly a fraud.

      Report Post »  
    • JRook
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 4:11pm

      @Lloyd Drako LOL good one. It is interesting to note that the imprint on the shroud looks very similar to impressions of Jesus that were painted years before it was discovered. Hey if the current one is a duplicate, I see a mass marketing bonanza here. But who do you send the royalties to.

      Report Post »  
    • Mark Twain.
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 5:29pm

      they just cant except the possibility of it being real , regardless the thing has been studied enough to prove they cant even figure out how it was made let alone reproduce it ,
      check out the link, good solid Scientific Evidence
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HDKYBYqk5s

      Report Post »  
    • RCScrolls
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:27pm

      You should believe in that which you can proove.
      I can proove my Bible is devine and not Human in its origin.
      There are no contradictions unless you have not exhauted all reasonable answers. Very very provable my Bible is. Dont just beleive in anyhing, because that is falling for eveything.
      You stand on what you can prove.
      Ill take any ?s or anyones supposed contradictions and will give you very good reasonable answers.
      Answers that are real and based on truth, not conjured up.
      rcscrolls@aol.com

      Report Post » RCScrolls  
    • wedgeii
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 6:32pm

      gotta jump in on this one. IT’S FAKE!!!!! No one I MEAN no one knows what Jesus looked like. So this painting opps shroud come around and WOW it looks like every silk swap meet painting I’ve ever seen?!!?? True history will show men did not wear their hair long in fact they groomed often…… You people that believe just on faith are stupid. KNOWLEDGE IS KEY BLIND FAITH WILL LEAD YA TO NO EXISTENCE. did I scare ya? GOD IS ONLY IN YOUR HEART IF YA KNOW HIM! He is not a wonderful feeling. That would be SATIN………………………………………………………………..!

      Report Post » wedgeii  
    • wedgeii
      Posted on June 8, 2011 at 7:01pm

      TomFerrari

      ( “Doesn’t matter.
      Faith is all I need, and works are the results of that faith.” )

      WOW TomFerrari UR DUMB.

      Report Post » wedgeii  
    • adamah379
      Posted on June 9, 2011 at 12:15am

      Eyewitnesses saw SHEETS! John 20:1-8. And, a napkin (or handkerchief) covered Jesus’ face. Watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_wFv9_NJFk

      Report Post »  
    • adamah379
      Posted on June 9, 2011 at 12:46am

      Have you never read John 20:7? It was a napkin (or handkerchief) that covered Jesus’ face. Watch;http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_wFv9_NJFk

      Report Post »  
    • G.W. Dobbs
      Posted on June 10, 2011 at 7:58am

      The Shroud of Turin is REAL; every time a new study is made confirming it, Satan counters calling the Shroud a fake. There has been NO PAINT ever found on the Shroud. Computer MRI studies have revealed the FACE OF CHRIST from the Shroud. Christ is LORD and SAVIOR, the BIBLE is Truth, Eternity is forever and Jesus is coming SOON.

      Report Post »  
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