Environment

New Study Blames Fall of Roman Empire on ‘Climate Change’

Forget what you thought you knew about history and the fall of Ancient Rome.  A new study published in Science magazine suggests climate change actually played a major role in bringing down history’s most infamous decline of civilization. New Study Blames Fall of Roman Empire on ‘Climate Change’

It turns out that tree rings are leading many scientists to believe that shifts in climate affected farming and amplified political, social and economic crises.

“Climate change seems a factor in the rise and fall of the Roman empire, according to a study of ancient tree growth that urges greater awareness of the risks of global warming in the 21st century,” Reuters reports.

The review, by experts in Germany, Austria, the United States and Switzerland, extended study of tree rings 1,000 years beyond previous analyses. Thick rings indicate good growth conditions while narrow ones mean poor.

The study said the evidence, helping back up written records that are sparse in Europe more than 500 years ago, “may challenge recent political and fiscal reluctance” to slow projected climate change in the 21st century.

Modern societies seem less vulnerable but “are certainly not immune” to climate change, especially because migration “will not be an option in an increasingly crowded world,” they wrote.

Vanity Fair sees the apparent doomsday prophecy writing on the wall, claiming “we’re next.”

Comments (358)

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  • PlanetXenu
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:10pm

    I thought it was the trojan horse.

    Report Post »  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:17am

      Whats a condom gotta do with it ?

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • charliego
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 11:28am

      @PLANETXENU and CHEEZEWHIZ
      Helen and Paris—-that follow-up remark was hilarious, I’m still laughing. Thanks for a humerous start to the day—did you two mythicals get together for this post?

      Report Post » charliego  
    • dontbotherme
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:15pm

      You guys are too funny. :D

      Report Post »  
  • threedoor
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:08pm

    There was a documented drought in northern Africa where much of the Roman grain supply was located, the enemies of Rome took advantage of this and the internal politics didn’t help. But since when was a drought climate change? Really.

    Report Post » threedoor  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:21am

      exactly, droughts happen. I think next time they re-brand they will call it “season change”.

      Report Post » Socco  
  • CrackerSmurf
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:07pm

    Well, this article proves it to me the end of America is at hand. Even the scientists in Rome warned of Global warming the people running between cities emitted to much carbon and ate too much food.

    Report Post » CrackerSmurf  
  • psycodad36
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:06pm

    oh i forgot,couldn’t be the government,they’re always the most intelligent amongst us

    Report Post »  
  • scguitar
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:04pm

    Wow, They will do anything to rewrite history

    Report Post »  
  • psycodad36
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:03pm

    let me see if i got this,it wasn’t decadence,empirical rule,or just plain government runamuck.now we have to find out what AL GORES predicessors were doing way the eff back then.well if it were global warming ,then why havent the glaciers and artic circles been gone many many moons ago?

    Report Post »  
  • Bluenose177
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:03pm

    hasn’t this tree ring/climate change nonsense been debunked already?

    the hockey stick graph and tree rings was the douche from Penn State wasn’t it?

    Report Post » Bluenose177  
    • Sgt.Crust
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:08pm

      yep

      Report Post »  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:09pm

      The review, by experts in Germany, Austria, the United States and Switzerland, extended study of tree rings 1,000 years beyond previous analyses
      ———–
      So they studied fossils ?
      I’d like to see those data now.
      Oh and the pictorial records of those tree-rings, used in the study.
      Show the raw data.release them all. Not the conclusions and analyses, but the actual data and pics

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:16am

      No dude, they liberally cut down ancient trees!

      Report Post » Socco  
  • MR_ANDERSON
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:03pm

    I thought it was Capitalism and Christianity that sent the empire into a downward spiral. This report has to be done by some right wing source, because we know Climate change is only because of Carbon emissions.

    (Sarcasm intended)

    Report Post »  
  • Docroxall
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:01pm

    It’s because the Romans burned all those high carbon fuels in their factories and had those filthy internal combustion chariots, oh, wait, never mind.

    Report Post »  
    • 1TrueOne55
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 7:43pm

      It was all the houses that they burned when Nero began the Christian Urban re-development program. His version of ACORN…LoL

      Report Post » 1TrueOne55  
  • Alan
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:56pm

    Boy, if I was living in Rome, I’d be worried.

    Report Post »  
  • Ben__Franklin
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:56pm

    That will teach them Romans not to drive around in those SUVs. What were they thinking!!!

    Report Post »  
  • efialtis
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:56pm

    Now that is funny, but it is possible the Roman Empire fell DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE, but definitely NOT AGW!
    Which only would prove AWG false, and Climate Change RIGHT, which then means, getting warmer or cooler, it is all NATURAL and there ain’t much we can do about it…

    Bone Heads! They will try anything to prove their point… only to be found lacking in integrity.

    Report Post » efialtis  
    • Sgt.Crust
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:05pm

      you see they are of a superior intellect my friend, they know best, we are cavemen…

      Report Post »  
  • Sgt.Crust
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:56pm

    So much ROMAN man made carbon dioxide, such a waste of humanity, I cower to the scientific Gods that abound these days, all Hail Caesar!

    Report Post »  
  • wisehiney
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:55pm

    Whose fault was it really? Altogether now………..

    Report Post »  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:32pm

      Palin ofcourse.
      She was the one who put cross-hairs on a map of Roman empire …and suddenly poof, it was gone.
      Ask Attila, he’ll verify it, he saw it on her website

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
  • Sgt.Crust
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:51pm

    LOL, and so Atilla had nothing to do with it, imagine that, who knew?

    Report Post »  
    • GnomeChomsky
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:33pm

      actually, just about everyone knows that Attila the hun had virtually nothing to do with the fall of Rome…..except appparently you.

      Report Post »  
    • chuck
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:30am

      ummm, that was actually sarcasm, just like this whole story is false.

      Report Post »  
  • Pete tsuMann
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:51pm

    What octane fuel did chariots run on?

    Report Post »  
  • janedough1
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:50pm

    Umm, first of all, tell me something I didn’t already know. Why do you think Claudius was building a harbor at Ostia to bring food into Rome? They were in the middle of a long term drought and their crops were failing.

    Secondly, haven’t we been telling you scientists that global warming is bunk? How many SUVs and coal fired power plants did Rome have?

    Report Post »  
    • Untameable-kate
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 2:14am

      ..and there it is. Algore has to have MANmade global warming to justify forcing all the new regulations and charges on us so he can make his fortune. Another set of scientific data that debunk his….everything.

      Report Post » Untameable-kate  
    • 1TrueOne55
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 7:38pm

      It could have been that for all the building they were doing they cut down many trees for construction and for heating/cooking in homes. And the smoke from the fires could have been even a small factor that these scientists are seeing in the “Tree Rings” and then they Assume facts not in evidence or provable to move emotions to their side of the argument.

      And then all the wood they needed for chariots and arrows and battering rams and seige towers etc plus all the new Villages for the Military outposts in their Empire to guard the borders etc etc etc…

      It changed the climate since when you remove the filtering agent for the atmosphere you will decrease the effect of the filter and allow more of the agent it is to filter out of the atmosphere.

      Report Post » 1TrueOne55  
  • jlbrody
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:49pm

    I knew it…I knew it.
    It was all those coal burning electric factories and fossil fuel burning cars that did it back then too.
    Will we never learn??

    Report Post » BORN_TOUGH  
  • Thighmaster
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:49pm

    I think the statute of limitations has passed so they can’t sue….

    Report Post » Thighmaster  
  • s.n.
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:49pm

    You’ve got to freakin be kidding me. Poor ma nature gets blamed for everything. The Colts lost the Super Bowl last year…because of global warming. One of my cows kicked my dog and cost me 2k to get her fixed….all because of global warming. I had a flat tire recently….all because of that stinkin global warming. Mother Nature….you are really ******* me off.

    Report Post »  
  • op3
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:47pm

    No No it was all the cows.

    Report Post »  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:54pm

      Nope
      Bush did it

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:55pm

      Leave Hillary out of it

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • EP46
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 5:58am

      @op3
      Not the methane from the cows…
      it was the lions which caused the fall……..
      they ate ALL the Romans and then since they were “Progressive lions” after that they all disappeared because without the Romans they had no one to ‘provide’ for them and they did not know how to take care of themselves…so once they turned on “the hand that fed them” that was all folks !!!

      Report Post »  
  • samous
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:45pm

    grasping at straws…..

    Report Post »  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 12:19am

      It was space aliens from Zorba. Just look at those Nazca Lines if you want proof. Yeah! Those old Romans never had a chance.

      Report Post » YellowFin  
  • Bob_R_OathKeeper
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:45pm

    Liberals brought down the Roman Empire, just like they are trying here.

    Report Post » Bob_R_OathKeeper  
    • Flagwaver
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:09am

      Not just liberals, but an elected official that believed himself to be a god.

      At least we have “the savior” to guide us…

      Report Post » Flagwaver  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:13am

      Ha ha, thats the truth!

      Report Post » Socco  
    • rgalunas
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 8:58am

      Right but the Holy Roman Empire must rise first! The empire is nothing until the people get emotional and the Holy part hasn’t happened yet. Because the Pope hasn’t seized power. A man will rise that is the Anti Christ and he will do miracles. So if we have famine that will create revolt. the weather is controlled by God when God is ready He will create a judgement on the people for worshipping a man rather God.

      Report Post »  
    • ChillyinAlaska
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:03pm

      You sir are right on with your assessment of what really brought down the Roman Empire. Lets do our best to stop it her in the USA before they totally destroy our country.

      I think Americans are wising up to this HOAX, but will it be in time, when our communist administration is instituting regulations in place of the laws congress would not pass, to further cripple our economy, and preventing the development of OUR OWN oil fields so we can reduce our dependence on our energy being provided by our enemies.

      We must not only defeat the left politically and remove them from control of our country, but we also need to totally destroy their credibility and show all how they have been lying, in order to get our country back and restore our policies back to the pre-60′s time when we believed their lies and allowed our country to go astray. This will be hard to do as now we have to educate a indoctrinated population who have been misinformed by the lies of activists with an agenda claiming to be un-biased scientists.

      I feel a lot more hope lately, that my grandchildren, and soon to be great-grandchild will have a country and opportunities, as it seems we are finally waking up the young to the perils of letting the left govern. They have no ethics, morals, or principles and should not be taken seriously.

      Report Post »  
  • jedi.kep
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:43pm

    It must have been all those SUV’s traveling on the Roman roads! Of course!

    Report Post » jedi.kep  
    • 101
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:49pm

      What a relief all this time I thought it was the Obama administration!

      Report Post »  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:53pm

      OK
      listen up people
      Sarah palin caused the fall of the Roman Empire.
      This is the official WH position and they are sticking to it.
      The data will come by the end of next week, when its ready

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • 912828Buckeye
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:59pm

      I got some water front property in Arizona

      Report Post » 912828Buckeye  
    • Endstatism
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:31am

      No, it was the Roman orators Glennus Beckus, Rushius Limbaughvs and Savage The Barbarian that brought down the empire

      Report Post » Endstatism  
    • bigbud
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:00pm

      Is it true that the polar ice caps are receding, on Mars and Jupiter. Is that from earthlings ruining our atsmosphere.

      Report Post »  
  • TruthTalker
    Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:42pm

    Right.

    Report Post »  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:55pm

      It wasn’t climate change, it was political change.

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 10:57pm

      These climate change people will not give up will they?

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • seeker9
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:07pm

      And the study was commissioned by…
      Further funding will be provided if…

      Report Post » seeker9  
    • mattintexas
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:13pm

      How many 1,700+ year old trees can they possibly have for study to gather enough conclusive evidence to make that sure of a statement regarding such a complex society.

      mattintexas  
    • cheezwhiz
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:20pm

      @ mattintexas

      I’d really like to see pictures of those tree-rings.
      Each and every one of them .
      that would bust this “ study” in a minute

      Report Post » cheezwhiz  
    • Cobra Blue
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:24pm

      HA…ha ha ha LOL……yea right…and I have some really, really nice ocean front property in Arizona for sale. Cheap…

      Report Post »  
    • SLEUTH
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:26pm

      Thanks for the laugh. good one liners….really

      Report Post » SLEUTH  
    • brliantedj
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:35pm

      Exactly what I was thinking the original SUV’s to blame. They had Avgustus Gore and his hockey stick graph warning them if I remember correctly.

      Report Post »  
    • TikeSissy
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:36pm

      This is what happens when there is forty years of self imposed pharmaceutical experimentation.

      Report Post » TikeSissy  
    • MiketheTrucker
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:43pm

      Maybe it wasn’t climate change, but rather a polar shift. If they would dig up some old Roman compasses they might find that the needles were pointing south instead of north. :)

      That would make about as much sense, right?

      Report Post »  
    • hot22dog
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:47pm

      yea it got really cold and they couldn’t grow their grapes which fueled their economy. It was warmer back then and they had longer periods of grape growing, fueling their economy. We have these dummies trying to push a climate change on us and it is called let’s tax and regulate the economy until it is no more. Climate change will be the death of us if we don‘t stop living in Al Gore’s head.

      Report Post »  
    • EgoBrain
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:53pm

      Oh brother.

      Report Post » EgoBrain  
    • GnomeChomsky
      Posted on January 14, 2011 at 11:56pm

      @mikethetrucker or anyone else for that matter

      this is completely off topic, but did anyone else read about Tampa airport having to re-number its runways due to some weird compass irregularities? I heard this in passing the other day and quite frankly am too lazy to look it up to verify. just curious if anyone else heard about this?

      Report Post »  
    • Xcori8r
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:00am

      It only makes sense. . Everybody knows that the Visigoths, Vandals and Huns had huge carbon footprints.

      Report Post » Xcori8r  
    • Xcori8r
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:07am

      The magnetic pole moves about 25 feet per year due to displacements in the earth’s molten core — but that probably wouldn‘t happen if the polar bears weren’t all forced south because of glacial melt caused by global warming.

      Report Post » Xcori8r  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:11am

      Lets quit playing by their rules, which they often change. “They” don’t get to re-brand. Lets not give them that. They called it AGW or man-made global warming, lets keep it as ridiculous as when they first tried to spread the fear of it.

      Report Post » Socco  
    • GnomeChomsky
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:13am

      @xcor

      makes sense, thats probably what it was.

       
    • CatB
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:16am

      lol .. it was all those cars and airplanes.

      Report Post »  
    • avgconservative
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:19am

      They sold too many 0016 Chevy Suburbans and Hummers.

      Report Post » avgconservative  
    • IVillageIdiot
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:28am

      Funny, I thought it was caused by a Senate that acted only when their own self interest and political advancement were at stake, up to the point no one believed in Rome any longer and stopped doing the things it took to keep it going,… for example accepting barbarians into the provinces in the hopes they would contribute monetarily and would eventually be bought off with favors and money instead of confronting them and sending the violent ones to an early dirt nap:

      Roman Political Parties:
      ========================
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimates
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populares

      Report Post » IVillageIdiot  
    • My Sacred Honor
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:33am

      Gawd, this is so funny I wanna vomit on my shoes….wait, too late.

      Report Post » My Sacred Honor  
    • siralien
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:35am

      yeah… OK so there was climate change, surprize surprize, who caused it the Romans or the Vikings?

      Report Post »  
    • independentvoteril
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:35am

      OK I KNEW they were rewriting history but this is EXTREME.. SORRY I’M BAD we are talking about the left wing nuts..

      Report Post » independentvoteril  
    • 7.62AirMailComeGetIt
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:36am

      If this is not setting off RED FLAGS you seriously need help

      erase history in front of your eyes, so you REALLY believe in GLOBAL SCAMING oops warming

      Report Post »  
    • anOpinion
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:49am

      Of course if was climate change, as in a change in the political climate.

      Report Post » anOpinion  
    • jzs
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:55am

      Not sure if I agree because there is an incredible amount of speculation, but that’s kind of interesting and I hope you all follow the link.

      But what’s pathetic about the Blaze is that this is presented as a something relevant to the current controversy of the effect of industrialization on climate change, something that happened a few thousand years after the period the authors were discussing.

      I recognize that the article was speculative (as archeology, anthropology and astronomy, etc. all are because they are theories not subject to experimentation) and that the historical causes of the rise and demise of ancient civilizations is unknowable. But it’s pretty cool to read. And frankly, if you ridicule science (or informed speculation) based on your political beliefs, then I‘d say don’t even pretend you are learning more about history or science as you grow older. Just lock in to politics and let AM radio tell you the truth about science, the past, and history. It‘s much simpler if you don’t have to read books or otherwise delve into subjects taught in school – you can get all you need to know through the political lense of noted scientists and historians Rush and Glenn.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • NeoFan
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 1:00am

      The Germans lost world war two because of Climate change. The history books on WWII are Republican lies.

      Report Post »  
    • GEW
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 1:13am

      does this prove that climate change is man made as the scientist would like us all to believe, or does it prove that it has to do with the Sun, and the earths natural cycles. Shame once again on the scientist and their continued shoving down our throats belief in climate change. ENOUGH

      Report Post » GEW  
    • BloodSweatandTears
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 1:24am

      Wait a second. You mean they had climate change? Oh come on. That means CLIMATE HAPPENS.
      carbon emissions or not? Shouldn’t they be surpressing this study?

      Report Post »  
    • home_of_the_brave
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 1:47am

      Now they can implement their energy regulation strategies and carbon emission taxes, what a wonderful coincidence.

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 2:39am

      As a service to my friends at The Blaze, so you won’t sound completely uneducated when discussing climate change, I’ll offerer a brief summary of the issue.

      The Earth would be a frozen ball of ice were it not for the thin layer of atmosphere above it’s surface. How thin? If you have a standard globe in your house or have seen one at school, it’s thinner that the paper that covers the globe on which the countries and oceans are printed. You may be able to feel little bumps where the Himalayas are on the globe you have, but that’s for effect. If the globe where actually to scale, it would be as smooth as glass, and the height atmosphere would thinner than the layer of paper that coveres you globe (the radius of the Earth is about 4000 miles, and Mount Everest is about 6 miles above sea level).

      That vanishingly thin layer of air allows life on Earth. We’ve known, for 120 years or so, that the component of the air we breath that holds onto heat, and has prevented the world from becoming an ice planet, is C02, the gas that plants exhale and the gas that comes out of the exhaust pipe of your car, among other industrial age emission sources.

      No educated person on Earth denies that CO2 is a “greenhouse gas”, a component of the atmosphere that holds onto heat. And no educated person denies that the more CO2, the more the Earth warms. Just stop it, stop your objections, that is not an issue that’s in debate.

      Nor is their any debate that the Earth has been warming at least for the last three decades. 2000 to 2010 was the warmest decade since measurement have been taken since around the 30s as I recall. And stop your objections, that also is not a matter of debate among the scientific community. That is fact based on measurements of air temperature, land temperature, ocean surface temperature, deep ocean temperature, area of glacial ice and so on. Don’t object to that Blazers or you just look uniformed.

      But here is where you Blazers can comment and not sound uneducated. The Earth is warming, increased evaporation of the oceans gives more moisture in the air and more rain and snow. But are C02 emissions a major cause, or are we seeing a cyclical change in climate that is independent of industry and cars and other sources of C02?

      That’s a legitimate question. Don‘t say CO2 in the atmosphere doesn’t increase Earth’s temperature, if only slightly. That was established a century ago and is not an educated thought. But is the MAIN cause of global warming due to human activity? That’s a legitimate question. You’ll find yourself at odds with almost any climate scientist, but to me that’s a legitimate point of debate.

      Saying global warming is a “fraud” or denying the Earth is warming makes you look like your living in the Dark Ages. But there are legitimate questions to ask, and ones you can ask without looking like you never graduated from Kindergarten.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • HumbleMan
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 3:54am

      @JZS

      You really are making a fool of yourself. The real scientists know that AGW is an idiotic idea. You’re just spewing out the politically motivated cool-aid. Is this the new religion? Because it has no scientific foundation. Al didn’t invent the Internet, he invented anthropogenic global warming.

      Report Post » HumbleMan  
    • Big Bob
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 7:12am

      @JZS your a moron you proved how little you actually know when you said that plants give of carbon dioxide. People exhale carbon dioxide along with every other living creature. Plants take in carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Plants need carbon dioxide to thrive the more carbon dioxide there is the more plants the earth can provide which means more food.

      Report Post »  
    • guyperram
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 7:18am

      There is actually serious evidence, that has been know for over 50 years, that around 350 AD to about 450 ad, +-, there was a cooling period in Europe. Crops failed, starvation was rampant, and a series of plagues swept through the empire. This was very similar to what happened in europe about a 1000 years later.
      However, the empires major problems were political. Mercenary army that was unpaid, despite a 95%+ tax rate. There were a lot of other problems also.

      Report Post »  
    • avenger
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 7:50am

      it is true,the Political Climate Changed ! self destruction from within driven by sheer decadence and greed…hmmmm….sounds familiar.

      Report Post »  
    • JimOhio
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 8:05am

      JZS: Good grief! Do you not realize the majority of comments are people being facetious.

      Report Post »  
    • Mwells
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 8:29am

      From the Wall Street Journal November 23, 2009:

      “The scientific community is buzzing over thousands of emails and documents — posted on the Internet last week after being hacked from a prominent climate¬ change research center — that some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend humans are responsible for global warming. ..1,000 emails and more than 2,000 other documents were stolen Thursday from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the U.K. The identity of the hackers isn’t certain, but the files were posted on a Russian file-sharing server… A partial review of the hacked material suggests there was an effort at East Anglia, which houses an important center of global climate research, to shut out dissenters and their points of view. In the emails, which date to 1996, researchers in the U.S. and the U.K. repeatedly take issue with climate research at odds with their own findings. In some cases, they discuss ways to rebut what they call “disinformation” using new articles in scientific journals or popular Web sites. The emails include discussions of apparent efforts to make sure that reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United Nations group that monitors climate science, include their own views and exclude others. In addition, emails show that climate scientists declined to make their data available to scientists whose views they disagreed with. “

      Report Post » Mwells  
    • byehlik
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 8:32am

      All I can say is….Yah right.

      Report Post » byehlik  
    • jmvsb
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:06am

      Just further proof that burning fossil fuels, automobiles, hair spray and cattle belching will again doom mother earth as we know it.

      Report Post »  
    • Vox Verity
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:22am

      JZS, Me thinks thou dost mistake flip for stupid. I believe Blazers rely on common sense and reason. We may be filp but we are not fooled.
      That GW/climate change has now been “documented” 1000 yrs ago only fuels skepticism. Proponents will say, “see, it destroyed Rome it could happen to us” while reason dictates if it happened 1000 yrs ago then it wasn’t man made or industrial. ( the realization reflected here, humorously, by fellow Blazers)
      Temperature elevations may be occuring but aberrant temp elevations may or may not be, depending on how far back in time you go. We know there have been several iceages, why not several warm ages? We’ve only been measuring temps for a very short time with little or nothing to compare it to.
      One or two big ashy volcanic eruptions could reverse the “trend” for years, or more. It’s happened before. And has anyone figured out how many trees it would take to suck up all this extra co2? Not as sexy (or lucrative) as power from the sun or windmills but wouldn’t that be better than destroying our way of life and sending us all to the poor house? (These are largely inefficient, very expensive tecnologies still in thier infancy)
      The point is,we don’t have answers to a whole lot of questions. Sages and scientists of every age profess that they have the answer, can solved the problem, only to be proved horribly wrong by the next generation. Climatology is a relatively new science with huge variables that may, or not, inter-depend.We don’t fully understand much of it yet.
      The earth has a climate of extreme changes that play out over centuries or thousands of centuries while we’ve been measuring for roughly 60yrs. Until we fully understand the how and why of our rather violent climate history, pardon my being dubious over predictions of certain doom due to a few degrees of temperature.
      And remember, my koolaid sipping friend, there is a money factor, millions at stake. As a member of the U.N.Climate Panel who was caught on tape said “Make no mistake, this is not about climate, this is about economics”. (Either he was really bold or lacked the “kindergarten training” not to get caught on tape.)
      The fact that you, in your infinite wisdom, have left open the possibility that co2 may not be the whole story means you have not yet consumed all your koolaid. Good for you! Now, step away from the glass. Keep that healthy skepticsm alive.

      Report Post »  
    • Marcobob69
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:27am

      Another startling discovery by……Al Gore! Yes, you heard it right, AL GORE! He just happened to BE THERE when the climate change reared it’s ugly head and SMOTE the WHOLE ROMAN EMPIRE………Uh, what was the question again???????? :-) What will the progressives come up with next! What do you want to bet this crap will be in science text books within a year, maybe two!!! Can you say “Let’s rewrite history the way WE want it to be remembered”!!! I knew you could!

      Report Post »  
    • what4
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:43am

      I have heard it all now…OMG !! Take the crack pipes away from these people!

      Report Post »  
    • The Real Captain America
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:44am

      @ MattinTexas
      I agree with you 100%

      Report Post » The Real Captain America  
    • oldoldtimer
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:53am

      So, the Roman Empire fell due to climate change. Guess that destroys their theory that it is man caused. Where did all the Roman power plants go that cause the change? Auto’s? Millions of livestock? Where did it all go. Wonder if they had a cap and tax crowd also. Just goes to show how uterly rediculious all the claims about man made warming or change really are. The climate on earth is in a constant state of change and has been since the beginning of time. Climat can not be looked aton ayear to year basis or even a hundred year basis. Fact is the earth was a lot warmer just 1300years ago and started cooling until around the 1850 when it started another warming cycle. I sure glad they proved my theory! If you do not like the weather now just wait it will definately change. Even without the presence of man or climate change scams to gain power and control over the people.

      Report Post »  
    • oldoldtimer
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 9:56am

      I guess the fall of the Roman Empire had nothing to do with their corrupt gov’t? A representative gov’t that had made themselves irrelevent like our Congress. They still went through the motions but the Emperor was the decision maker. Sound familiar? Obama rules by edicts and regulations.

      Report Post »  
    • efialtis
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:02am

      @JZS, you said, “As a service to my friends at The Blaze, so you won’t sound completely uneducated when discussing climate change”

      Then you go on with things like this:
      “and the height atmosphere would thinner than the layer of paper that coveres you globe”

      I think you are missing some important things here…
      “and the height [of the] atmosphere would [be] thinner than the layer of paper that covers you[r] globe”

      If you want to correct someone or educate someone, you need to be correct and sound educated yourself.

      Now, just to correct 2 “facts” (and I say “facts” because you provide NOTHING to back them up)…

      #1 – The earth has a way of “self correcting” when the CO2 levels get too high. The temperature might slightly increase, but the BIOMASS of the Earth most definitely increases. More CO2 = More Heat. More Heat +More CO2 = More Plants. More Plants –> Less CO2 + Lower Temps.
      http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2008/06/biomass_boosting.html
      http://dailycaller.com/2010/11/28/researchers-admit-inconvenient-finding-co2-is-helping-giant-redwoods-grow/
      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/5109251/Trees-are-growing-faster-and-could-buy-time-to-halt-global-warming.html

      #2 – Climate Change and AWG (Anthropogenic Global Warming) are NOT the same thing. The earth has been warming and cooling for thousands of years (millions of years, billions of years, take your pick). It is in the fossil record, it is in modern history. It is a proven fact by any and all scientists who are even mediocre at their work. THAT is Climate Change.
      Ice ages, Warm Periods (Interglacial)… they have happened and life is still on the planet.
      The questions comes in:
      If we had an ice age 10,000 years ago, and we are currently in an interglacial period, what can we expect?
      It is easy to gage how cold it got, by what we know of the layers of ice, etc., but it is harder to know how warm it got in other interglacial periods. In other words, we don’t know what is “normal” for the high in an interglacial period… but one thing is for sure, we will hit that high, and then start to cool again. If you think any different, you haven’t been paying attention.
      Man has survived at least ONE interglacial period and one major ice age. What caused the previous interglacial periods? If man wasn’t around to create Greenhouse Gases, or if man was around, (where are the SUVs and the CO2 spewing factories?) what caused THAT Global Warming?
      http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/11/041118104010.htm
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geologic_temperature_record

      There is ONE fact to take from all this…
      Climate Change is REAL. AWG is a HOAX.

      One last thing to consider…
      The laws of thermodynamics… and other laws of physics must be followed… if there is warming, there must also be cooling. The Earth will never reach “equilibrium” because it is not a closed system.
      http://physics.gmu.edu/~roerter/EvolutionEntropy.htm

      Report Post » efialtis  
    • jzs
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:11am

      Big Bob, you are correct about plants. Good find. Vox, I am skeptical to some degree, although not because I get my science from Rush, as most here do. There is uncertainty. But most here don’t understand what the uncertainty actually is. I appreciate your more educated, if sarcastic, reponse.

      The Earth has had large swings in temperature in the past. But there’s a new factor in the equation: hman industrial activity that releases vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. That’s new to the planet, and since the Industrial Age, the Earth has been warming. And despite the uneducated “hah, it’s snowing” rebuttal to global warming (confusing weather and climate), the last decade was the warmest on record. Maybe that’s a coindence, maybe not. But almost – almost – without exception, most scientists believe that to some degree, human activity is a factor. Some say a lot, some say not so much. I think we’ll know for sure in the next 10 years.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Lt_Taz
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:43am

      And just how many “Mental Midgets” participated in this study?

      Report Post »  
    • Firefight
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 11:04am

      If this is indeed the case, which may very well be… Then it just backs up the claim that Global Warming is nothing more than normal climate change that is cyclical and driven by the sun. Nothing to do with a “carbon footprint”. If put into the context of today with political strife, if there was a major food shortage it would only exasperate the problems we face and hasten the collapse of our country. Seems eerily familiar… Food Safety Bill, anyone?

      Report Post » Firefight  
    • bigbud
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 11:46am

      Is this the coming “Ice Age”, predicted in the 70s. Or the “global warmning” recently predicted. I thought that in history , we learned that , think the term “rampant homosexuallity”. That in turn caused disease. Along with a bloated corroupted government. Does that sound familiar?

      Report Post »  
    • Cliff
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 12:46pm

      @JZS
      Quote: “That vanishingly thin layer of air allows life on Earth. We’ve known, for 120 years or so, that the component of the air we breath that holds onto heat, and has prevented the world from becoming an ice planet, is C02, the gas that plants exhale and the gas that comes out of the exhaust pipe of your car, among other industrial age emission sources.”

      please before you call everyone here pathetic… get your facts straight “C02, the gas that plants exhale and the gas that comes out of the exhaust pipe of your car, among other industrial age emission sources.”

      That sir makes you look moronic!

      Cellular respiration (process that uses oxygen to break sugar into energy
      for life functions) and photosynthesis (green plants converting sunlight
      energy into sugars using water and carbon dioxide) are distinct and
      separate processes. Animals only use cellular respiration. Plants do not
      have muscles and the other functions necessary in animals functioning that
      require a high levels of oxygen. Plants also CAN NOT take the energy
      directly for their energy needs from photosynthesis. Photosynthesis
      produces a far greater amount of oxygen and sugars, etc. then the small
      amount the plant requires to produce its energy needs. OK – but only
      during the day when the sun light is available! During the night, the
      plant actually uses oxygen it has left over from the daylight
      photosynthesis or takes the oxygen from the air surrounding the plant to
      meet its energy needs. This is not nearly the amount of oxygen an animal
      needs over the same period of time.

      To answer your question, during the day the plant produces far more oxygen
      from photosynthesis than it produces carbon dioxide from cellular
      respiration. It is a waste gas and if not expelled from the plant, can
      cause serious harm. Since plants do not utilize large amounts of oxygen
      over a twenty-four hour period (ideal conditions, winter is another issue),
      oxygen wins.

      It is a good thing too, for ALL the oxygen in the atmosphere is the result
      of plants producing far more oxygen than they need!!! Take a deep breath and plant a tree! That will help the atmosphere much more that your cap and trade!

      Report Post » Cliff  
    • UNTAMEABLE-KATE
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 1:34pm

      ok

      Report Post » RN MOM  
    • exdem
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 2:30pm

      Its funny their doomsday scenario is the end of the planet because of a lack of legislation to save it.
      My doomsday scenario is the passage of such legislation robbing me of my freedom.
      Earth is just a tiny speck in a huge universe that we have no control over.
      These people have such a sense of exagerated self importance

      Report Post »  
    • jzs
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 2:37pm

      Cliff, that did make me look moronic. I already admitted that in an earlier post. I think I had one too many brewskies when I wrote that. You are correct that plants metabolize CO2 and release O2, and planting trees is good for lots of reasons and cutting down the Amazon Rainforest is bad for the same reasons.

      Report Post » jzs  
    • Cliff
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 2:48pm

      JZS… no worries !!! I agree with you on that… we should end depleting the forests in South America… If the tree huggers would mount up against that… I am sure 99% of Americans would help further that cause… The environmentalists I see make a play to save the earth… in a format based on TV Evangelists… Send your money to God because he needs it, and then they give you their own address! The environmentalists have made this into a religion for one thing only… US dollars, that is their green economy!

      Report Post » Cliff  
    • TheLascone
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 4:25pm

      You got that right Whitefang

      http://www.flickr.com/photos/23630227@N06/4117961176/in/photostream/

      Report Post » TheLascone  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 4:28pm

      Big Bob – “@JZS your a moron you proved how little you actually know when you said that plants give of carbon dioxide. People exhale carbon dioxide along with every other living creature. Plants take in carbon dioxide and produce oxygen. Plants need carbon dioxide to thrive the more carbon dioxide there is the more plants the earth can provide which means more food.”

      You are both kinda right. At night, the stomata (underside of leaves) does indeed “breath” oxygen.

      Report Post » Socco  
    • RavenGlenn
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 5:01pm

      @JZS

      I know you are a troll…but hell, why not, I’ve got a few minutes to spare.

      People already tore the idiotic comment about what plants exhale to bits so I shall pass on that for now.

      What I would like to comment on is something you chose not to consider. And that is that the FACT is that Gore’s infamous hockey-stick chart proved exactly the opposite of what he claimed. It showed that temperature went up BEFORE CO2 did, and went down BEFORE CO2 did. And, if you matched up the heat with the cycles of sun spots, it actually matches up the way that Gore wished us to believe.

      So, if you want to talk about FACT, we see that the sun goes through cycles(it always has) and when it does so, the temperature of the planet shifts(it always has) and then CO2 rises and falls completely independent of humans and industry(it always has).

      To claim man made “Climate Change”(which was GLOBAL WARMING until that was proven to be stupid, and GLOBAL COOLING before that, which was also proven to be stupid) is a serious threat and truly all our faults and somehow, we can do /something/ to make everything better is ignorant and arrogant. We are NOT so powerful that we can change the temperature of the earth. Plastic and carbon isn’t going to kill us. As CO2 increases, FACTS show us that plant life increases as well.

      And of course…we know that plants use CO2.

      Report Post »  
    • 1TrueOne55
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 6:20pm

      It had more to do with the Cutting down of the trees for creating Siege towers and bridges and hasty fortifications that caused climate change. Science has said at least in the Middle East where it was studied that the Land of Israel could not have been called the land of Milk-n-Honey if it was in its current state and that there were a lot more trees at the time of Moses. And when they started to replant forests in the area with native vegetation they found that more rain came to the area and the land flourished.

      And I wonder if the scientist also know the degree of deflection that the North Pole was at relative to the sun and how that affected cimate temps. Any High School Science class or text should be teaching the simple fact that the earth wobbles on its axis and every xxx thousands of years it changes over time.

      Is Al Gore building a tractor beam to stop the wobble? And if he did how would that affect the Earth’s climate, good or bad. Maybe the climate Scientists in the UK could answer that haunting question.

      Report Post » 1TrueOne55  
    • Socco
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 6:36pm

      @ Ravenglenn “People already tore the idiotic comment about what plants exhale to bits so I shall pass on that for now.

      And of course…we know that plants use CO2.”

      They also use Oxygen dude. But I wont insult your intelligence for not knowing what most people do not understand. Instead, I will once again try to explain it.

      The process of cells using oxygen and getting rid of carbon dioxide is called respiration. Plants have very small holes on the underneath of leaves, called stomata, which let the carbon dioxide and oxygen in and out in a process called diffusion.

      Plant cells respire as well, using oxygen and getting rid of carbon dioxide (what most people know). Plants also use carbon dioxide when they make food from the sun’s energy and this makes oxygen. This is called photosynthesis.

      During the day, the plant cells photosynthesize more than they respire, so they get rid of more oxygen than they do carbon dioxide. During the night, the plant cells respire more than they photosynthesize, so they get rid of more carbon dioxide than oxygen.

      In short… at night? Plants exhale Co2, not oxygen.

      Report Post » Socco  
    • Pocono Countryboy
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 6:49pm

      JZS

      You said “Nor is their any debate that the Earth has been warming at least for the last three decades. 2000 to 2010 was the warmest decade since measurement have been taken since around the 30s as I recall. And stop your objections, that also is not a matter of debate among the scientific community. That is fact based on measurements of air temperature, land temperature, ocean surface temperature, deep ocean temperature, area of glacial ice and so on. Don’t object to that Blazers or you just look uniformed.”

      This might be true if it weren’t for the FACT that the measuring stations used are not in a vacuum. there are far too many in industrialized areas (read Cities) that are affected by more than “climate” or “weather”

      In fact your “fact” is up for debate among intellectually honest folks.

      Report Post »  
    • JESUS-IS-LORD
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 6:51pm

      This is so far the stupidest news I have read on The Blaze.
      Why would you even put this up?

      Report Post » JESUS-IS-LORD  
    • jds7171
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 8:12pm

      there were a lot of factors to lead to this, and it sure wasn’t climate change. The main one is all the people they were putting as slaves and conquering, finally got the same technology and kicked the romans but. Payback is a pain in the but.

      Report Post »  
    • Showtime
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:02pm

      Yeah, right. My thoughts exactly, TRUTHTALKER!

      Report Post » Showtime  
    • Showtime
      Posted on January 15, 2011 at 10:18pm

      @JZS –
      What in the world have you been smoking?!

      Big Bob is correct in what he said about carbon dioxide, which is different altogether from carbon monoxide.

      My thought was how convenient it was for the “scientists” to come up with all those 1,500-year-0old trees JUST AT THE MOST POLITICALLY OPPORTUNE TIME!!! You know what the Progressives say—never let a tree ring go to waste!

      I saw John what’s-his-name — the one with all the hair — he ran for president against Bush — KERRY — the other night giving a speech. He said that “climate change” and “global warming” were in the background now, that “we” (Progressives) would have to approach it from a different angle, and focus on JOBS and ENERGY. So, watch out, folks, the Progressives are fixing to stick it to us yet again!!!

      Report Post » Showtime  
    • jzs
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 12:22am

      Blazers, I admit my brain had shorted out when I said plants “exhale” CO2. But rereading my post I thought it was pretty decent. But the thing I appreciate is that I saw some good, science based responses to my post. Everybody slammed me course but, when the posts are logical, I thought that was awesome. The thread is leaving the Blaze, but I’ll challenge you next time!

      Report Post » jzs  
    • LadybugsTX
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 4:29am

      Right…. It wasn’t a power hungry man named Augustus. I see. Well that solves it then. If “climate change” caused the fall of the Roman Empire, then we’re off the hook folks. As far as I know there wasn’t any of those evil CO2 belching factories or fossil fuel and the car that run on it during the Roman Empire. I’m off to get me a Hummer H2 tomorrow. Shiny red with black interior. You can get them for a song now. Does anybody know where I can get some old fashioned light bulbs? That aren’t sold by G.E.? I sure do miss ‘em. And I just turned my heater back up to 72 degrees. Woo Hoo!!

      Report Post » IMPEACH GEORGE SOROS!!  
    • LadybugsTX
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 4:47am

      Why is it when you go to the comments of a global/climate argument you always find yourself smack dab in the middle of a “No, I’m the Smartest Person in the Room” contest? I don’t believe anybody here is smarter than the last article they read on any subject. Give it a rest. To me you’re not any different than two rednecks comparing the size of their….., trucks.

      Report Post » IMPEACH GEORGE SOROS!!  
    • RN MOM
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 9:56am

      The follow-up study: How carbon emissions travel through time and collapse ancient civilizations.

      Carbon Jumpers Study Conclusion: The right wing hate fest has caused carbon atoms to jump the time-space continuum through a wormhole to cause climate change in the earth’s “past”.

      Cost: 1 Billion dollars.

      Report Post » RN MOM  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 11:33am

      “Climate Change” is not about ‘Climate’. It’s about idealism. Until that fact is ‘discovered’ and understood by the general population the movement will continue to make progress.

      I’ve cut a few trees in my day, and seen many more that were cut. Tree “rings” tell more than ‘just’ “good” growth years and “bad” growth years. Nothing in Gods world is that simple. If it were we would all “know” more than we do. But the majority of our “knowledge” is based in ‘fact as we presently understand it’. In other words, it’s dynamic knowledge. Always subject to change, should we “learn” more.

      Water, wind, temperature, nutrition, stress from a wide range of variables affect the growth of all things. Few of these can actually be accounted for by “scientists” accurately. Most of it is subjective, or, for those of us who also understand ‘learning’, personal belief. Or, even faith, if you will. Making much of what we hear from “scientists” a dogma of their faith.

      Few Scientists believe in a Creator and the God of nature. Most believe in themselves and their “knowledge” as they ‘discover’ piecemeal and child like, a few of Gods “dots”. Most spend their entire adult lives in the hope of dispelling the notion of God once and for all. And that fact is easily identifiable in their discourse, much of the time.

      Claims, like the one in this ‘article’, are just that. Claims.

      The truth is that societies themselves depend on a very complex array of interactions of knowledge, learning, understanding, faith, belief, resources, cooperation, honesty, honor, common truth, direction and many many more factors. Some within our control and some without our control and even others that rely on a similarly complex but less tangible collective emotional interaction not easily measured or understood that include environmental influences and pressures from other distant societies.

      All of these ‘variables’ make for a very difficult algorithm to solve for, as these and other factors ‘confound’ (in the statistical sense) the solution process. Making hypothesis an exercise in speculation, at best. And a poor one at that.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • 67GTO
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 12:45pm

      Sounds like Gore and his Progressives have found a way to blame the Tea Party and the current political climate (which they created) on climate change so that they can push their agenda further. Must be the new tactic, ‘let’s scare the pejesus out of the ‘stupid’ public to get them to do what we want’ – Bill Maher must be their consultant…………

      Report Post »  
    • Kaen
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 6:53pm

      Complete morons…maybe global warming will be responsible for the demise of the liberal/socialist/marxist/democrats party and all of its followers…we can only hope.

      Report Post » Kaen  
    • CYCLONE
      Posted on January 16, 2011 at 9:03pm

      Priceless

      Report Post »  
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