Occu-nomics: May Day Protesters Try to Answer, ‘What Is the Best Alternative to Capitalism?’
- Posted on May 3, 2012 at 12:55pm by
Benny Johnson
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Throughout the Occupy movements confounding history, there have been only a handful of clear, universal themes that could be distilled from the otherwise cloudy, often co-opted, squatting menagerie. For all their discussion of unity, this cabal of leftist students, wandering homeless, union members and violent offenders seldom agree on any one thing. However, there is one rusty, iron theme that connects the loitering comrades from coast to coast: their collective rankle toward the current capitalist system.
(Related: Funny Vid: D.C. Occupiers Want to Banish Monetary System…But Still ‘Buy’ Big Screen TVs)
On Tuesday, The Blaze went down to Malcolm X park in Washington D.C. which played host to the much-touted Occupy May Day protests. We were interested in finding the answer to one question:
“So, what is the best alternative to Capitalism?”
What we found, may hurt your mind.
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Comments (230)
SquareHead
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:02pmWay to Go Blaze to let them shine.
That is Brilliant. I hope to see more of this. You can do this not only on the occupy movement, but also in the halls of public workers. Exposing the ineptness of Government-run-anything!!
Now go interview OSHA workers and EPA workers, about their job and what they do? A local Roofer with 5 employees that has been in business for 20 years got a visit from the OSHA on one of his job sites where OSHA gave him $26,000.00 total in various fines. 2 guys not wearing eye protection $4,000.00 fine for each, 1/4″ rubber pad missing from the bottom of one ladder $14,000.00 fine etc..
These guys have a great reputation, works 10hrs pr day, six days pr week trying to make ends meet, and now this? Whoever this OSHA troll is, should be exposed, as should all of the NAZI’s we have in our government offices. Please go expose them and their “work” they do for taxpayer. The general population are not fully aware of the detriment regulations and regulators cause hard working Americans.
What will the roofer do now, go and work 12 hrs pr day to pay of the $26k in fines? How safe is that?
THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT DO ANYTHING WELL, aside to screw up what was working before they got involved, hence needing another agency to fix their own screw up.
Ron Paul is the only person that has ever offered any real solutions like the elimination of 5 Federal agencies! Now go vote him in and and others that hold his ph
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:24pm“The Best Alternative to Capitalism.”
Well, that depends. Let’s define a few things here, eh? First, capitalism – a political/economic systems where “capital goods” (ie, goods that make other goods: factories, farms, etc.) are privately run for profit. In other words, it’s a system where you have two types of people: people who WORK for a living (Labor), and people who OWN for a living (Capitalists).
That’s the key point, mind you. Anyone remember how feudalism works from their old European History class? Under feudalism, land-owning Aristocrats ruled the landless Peasantry. The Peasants were tied to the land, and worked hard to make as much grow as they could. But much of the fruits of their labor would be given to the Aristocrats, because the Aristocrats “owned” the land. This ownership was backed up by State violence and State privilege. Replace “land” with “factories,“ ”Peasants“ with ”Workers,“ and ”Aristocrats“ with ”Capitalists,” and it‘s hard to argue that we’ve much improved.
A better system would be economic democracy – what you might call Socialism. This does not mean, necessarily, that the government owns everything. What if, instead, workers in a firm made the decisions of that firm? What if teachers ran the schools, doctors ran the hospitals, workers ran the factories? Beyond that – sure, let the market run wild. But a “free” market governed by tyrannical institutions of power brings us no true freedom.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:35pmVox Obama: Yeah, that Socialism thing is working real well in Europe. Greece. Spain. To name but a few . What is WRONG with you people? WAKE UP. Stop spouting the college age Lenin spiel. It doesn’t work because eventually there are more people IN the wagon and not enough people pulling the wagon. The wagon pullers are the wallet ! The tax payers. There is NO money tree. How can you kids buy into this anger outlet – i.e., “ I Hate the Rich” bull that is at the base of all of this so-called Socialism ? Like the 99% rhetoric – it is all bad math and phony vocabulary.
Report Post »Lord_Frostwind
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:36pmYour assumptions Vox are based on a false reading of the system. Feudalism was a system dependent upon a King doling out the territory to the vassals that had his favor. In Capitalism, there is no true nobility that decides whom the vassals are, rather the “nobility” or higher class is in a constant state of flux with new members coming in and old ones falling from favor. In truth, “Economic Democracy” aka Socialism, is closer to Feudalism because the people elected by the people will simply replace the old Kings, and just like them it will be to their loyal subjects.
Capitalism, for all the perceived unfairness is the most equal system. It gives every man a chance to succeed or fail based upon his merit. Socialism is the ultimate tyranny of the majority as people would be able to take what they believe they need, enslaving those they take from under the guise of the “Greater Good.”
You have to answer me one question. What right do you have to another’s property?
Report Post »MrMark
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:46pmVOX_POPULI –
“it’s a system where you have two types of people: people who WORK for a living (Labor), and people who OWN for a living (Capitalists).”
This entire premise is based on an erroneous assumption: that owners do not work. This is typical Marxist deception. It is a lie designed to anger employees and create unrest, and thus a fertile field for unionization and eventually socialism and communism.
I don’t know a single business owner – and I know many – who does not put in more hours than his/her employees. For an owner the business is their life, so it consumes most of their time. Their families are often involved in the business so they can have more time together. Their focus is on creating more business so they can hire more employees and provide more opportunities for success and growth, so they don’t focus on family vacations, the number of sick days they have left, or how many hours they worked last week. They just work – unlike those who are focused only on themselves and how much they can beat out of their employer without earning it; paid vacation days, sick days, medical coverage, etc., etc., etc.
It is business owners who make employment possible. It is delusional Marxists who make employment a dead end, unrewarding task rather than an opportunity to learn, grow and succeed.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:48pm(Repost)
The older man with the white T-shirt and the mustache was the most sensible.
The wage system is not exploitative because you are not entitled to another person’s wealth until you trade for it.
Also, the Labor Theory of Value, on which his criticism is based, doesn’t account for the time preference of money. The very first and basic reason that anyone trades anything at all is because it costs them less to acquire what someone else has made if they trade, than if they acquired all the materials and produced it themselves.
So, before you can even arrive at the belief that the wage system is an unfair system of trade, you will have already had to concede that there is a time preference for goods and services;
Unfortunately, the Marxist doesn’t want to apply this principle to the time preferences of both the employer and the employee. And they both have their time preferences:
The employer knows he can sell a good at a certain price, and he tries to find people who are willing to work [using the capital that the employer ownes] at a price which will allow him to increase his wealth.
The employee knows he can work for that which he can trade for the means of production (if he so chooses), and tries to find people who will pay him a wage which will increase his wealth (Wages minus the costs of the employee’s own costs equals profit for the employee).
Report Post »RULISTENING
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:59pmOSHA and the unions are working together in my town. I recently completed a commercial project that convinced me of that. When I started the project, I had 2 visits from the local carpenters union who were upset that we were going to use a “nonunion” Drywall Contractor. I’ve used them on many jobs in the last 20 years and they have an impeccable record of Safety and Quality. Shortly after the 1st visit, I was turned into OSHA by an “anonymous” party and visited by 2 OSHA investigators. Upon completion of the investiagtion, (no violations were issued) the jobsite was picketed by the carpenters union. (imagine how suprised I was!) When the picketing did not produce any results (union memberships) for the thugs, I recieved another unannounced visit from OSHA, only this time it was considered a “random” visit (I am sure no one turned me in) and this subcontractor was fined $3500.00 for not having an MSDS sheet for a tube of caulking. (MSDS, is material safety data sheet, explains what chemical content is in the material). In all my years in this business, I have only had OSHA on one of my job sites 3 times in 30 years. This was a very small commercial construction job and they showed up 2 times in 1 month. Go figure.
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:09pm@ Vox
Report Post »My husband and I own 3 small businesses. And we are still working when the employees go home. Also when you factor it out to hours worked, we make a LOWER hourly wage than our employees. We have a saying “being self employed means you work 70 hours a week for yourself, so that you don’t have to work 40 hours a week for someone else”. And Socialism does not work and will never work because it kills the human spirit. Why work hard if your hard work is not rewarded. It fails because there is no insentive to be your best. The Society as a whole goes down the toilet. Been tried over and over again and failed miserably into poverty and bread lines every time.
A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:15pm@vox_populi,
“The Peasants were tied to the land, and worked hard to make as much grow as they could. But much of the fruits of their labor would be given to the Aristocrats, because the Aristocrats “owned” the land. This ownership was backed up by State violence and State privilege.”
It‘s not ownership that’s bad, but state violence and privilege. In a free market other land owners could bid away workers with higher wages, and the workers would be able to keep what they earned until they could afford to trade for increasingly labor-saving capital of their own, and eventually rent or buy a place of their own.
On a related note, Tom Woods put together some resources on the enclosure movement.
See here.
Propaganda, Meet Modern Research
http://www.tomwoods.com/blog/anti-capitalist-propaganda-meet-modern-research/
“This was a central socialist theme: the people must not be viewed as having chosen to abandon the land for the factory, having made a rational assessment of what was best for them. They must have been tricked or forced into it.”
Report Post »barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:17pm@ Vox Your argument is typical of a utopian.What you propose sounds good in theory but dosnt work in the real world. Without a leadership structure and business experience ,workers running large businesses is “pie in the sky” nonsense.Another thing socialism never takes into account is basic human instinct.People work to get ahead and for their own self interest.You may say thats selfish but that is the way it is.No amount of social engeneering will change that fact! No one will do more than the bare minimun of work unless they are getting rewarded.Socialism is a 19th century concept that has been a proven failure time and again.I find it funny socialists are fearful of big business but embrace government.Business can be controlled . If business dosnt cater to its customers it goes out of business.Business cannot make laws.Big government is much more dangerous and unaccountable than any business.Look no farther than Hitler,Stalin,Mao,Pol pot,Castro…etc. The genocide these leaders caused was a result of a totalitarian government…Not Big Business!
Report Post »venerablebede
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:17pmA Communist who believes in intellectual property, isn’t that a contradiction in terms? – Space dementia!
Report Post »destrecht
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:32pmVox- part of the problem with your analogy is the serfs can’t become landowners. Anyone can start a business and become an owner. But not everyone wants to. Some people just want to work and come home. Being an owner means that you are taking a risk. Being a worker means that when you are done, you’re done. Workers are part of the capitalist system as well. The worker has a commodity (his time and skill) and is selling it for money. As he gets better skills he trades it for more money. If he has a poor commodity (slacker, etc) he gets less money or a poorer job. If he finds a better customer (employer) he can leave his current situation and sell his time to the new customer. In socialism the slacker and the go getter receive the same pay, removing incentive to do better. And the one percent are just those in the government.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:34pmNow..let”s slow down VOX POPULI’s post again and see where the sleight of hand took place.
“Let’s define a few things here…”. You see that? That’s where in classic lefty fashion VOXIE wants to steer the conservation away from the truth and re-define it in lefty terms he takes a kernel of truth and then proceeds to mangle it beyond recognition to suit his lefty narrative. This is a trick used often by the left. Sort of a jedi mind trick…”this isn‘t the capitalism you’re looking for”.
By the time he’s reached “Tthat’s the key point mind you” in his next paragraph he’s on full bullsh#t mode, imposing his own warped lefty ideas on capitalism and expecting the reader to be buying them (can I use “buying” VOXIE?) at face value …no questions asked.
And then the punchline- the “ta da”- for this houdini of the progressive agenda..the sanitizing of socialism to make it appear as the “only” viable option. The illusion is complete.
Ladies and Gentlemen…the Amazing VOX POPULI and his performing failed ideology will stun and amaze you with their credibility defying feats of prestidigitation and illusion. Notice his fingers never leave his hands?
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:40pmand how about this one from VOX POPULI? “Those who work for a living and those who own for a living”…as if the business owner has never worked or indeed doesn’t work to keep his or her business viable, expanding and profitable?
All the risk is the bussiness owner’s. All the outlay is the business owner’s. All the responsibility falls on the business owner. All the decision making falls on the business owner. But in VOX POPULI’s magic world of marxism….all this ceases to be. It’s only about workers and owners there. And in truth…hasn’t marxism always worked out that way? The party elite own all the privileges..and the population works for the party..sorry..“the people”.
Report Post »turkey13
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:44pm“The Main vice of Capitalism is the uneven distribution of prosperity. The main vice of Socialism is the even distribution of misery.” – Winston Churchill
Report Post »Lloyd Drako
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:44pm@Vox et al.:
Feudalism was a system under which the state was weakly developed. In Europe at least, it tended to decline once kings began to get a grip on lands outside their immediate domains. A situation such as many libertarians seem to imagine, in which the state simply disappeared and every man enjoyed his own vine and his own fig tree, protected by his own arsenal, would quickly devolve into something resembling feudalism. Absent the state, the strongest private individuals would likely create a rampant warlordism.
Socialism, it seems to me, would be a system under which everything would belong to everybody, hence nothing would belong to anybody. Pride in ownership would be stifled, individual initiative would diminish, innovation would be discounted. That’s “ideal” socialism. Actual systems that have called themselves socialist, or communist, have usually magnified the state, or the party, into lawless tyranny.
Capitalism is in the economic realm what Churchill said democracy is in the political: the worst system of all, except all the others. But it has to be regulated. You need a state accepted by most people as legitimate, a civil society, representative institutions, and the rule of law, if only to protect private property rights. Nothing is more fatal to these things, or to capitalism itself, than the perception that inequality is growing and that the system is rigged in favor of the haves. There at least, your make some valid points.
Report Post »MAMMY_NUNN
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:53pmHow about succeeding on your own merits if a company that is corrupt and has shady business practices they go out of business. The worker that does good quality and fair work gets success and business by word of mouth and builds a good reputation. I guess it comes with honesty rather than dictation and not owning up to responsibility of their actions. As for the workers owning their own business usually does not work without honesty and hard work as to many chiefs and not enough indians usually fails because of greed.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:58pm@vox_populi,
“Well, that depends. Let’s define a few things here, eh? First, capitalism – a political/economic systems where “capital goods” (ie, goods that make other goods: factories, farms, etc.) are privately run for profit. In other words, it’s a system where you have two types of people: people who WORK for a living (Labor), and people who OWN for a living (Capitalists).”
If you work for something, can’t you then use that to make more money?
As long as government is not involved in the economy, there is only one type of person: individuals who have the right to keep what they earn and employ it toward increased production in the hope of trading for even more wealth.
Employers are workers who have already done the saving required to acquire their capital – or have borrowed the capital from a willing creditor; or have been given the capital as a gift from a willing benefactor; the point being that individuals in a free market have agreed to exchange their own private property in such a way that has resulted in the employer now being able to trade goods instead of labor.
There is nothing exploitative about that.
Of course, we don’t have a free market, but a corporatist one.
See here.
How to Reach the Left | Roderick T. Long
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4hjO1ak4_M
lketchum
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:58pm@Vox_Populi
You’re very confused about Capitalism is, or more accurately, what American Capitalism is.
There are three parts to any economic model: resources, like land and minerals, labor, or people, and tools. Take the false example of the “Noble American Indian”, they had tools, but their problem was that they never developed them. They used the same stone and bone tools their ancestors had for ions. They did not use primitive tools, because they made some collective decision to live short, often diseased filled lives as part of some mother-earth centered religion. We know this, because as soon as Europeans arrived in the Americas, native peoples sought to trade with them – food for technologies/tools. The most prized technologies/tools were weapons: knives, but especially firearms and gun powder. In many cases, natives wanted their European partners to help them attack and displace neighboring tribes. (so much for the notion that “No One Owned The Land). Europeans were successful, because they had better tools.
Now, in America, “Capital” is best represented in an idea. Invention and innovation take ideas and turn them into intellectual capital that results in new tools, which produces wealth. That wealth fuels additional investments in new ideas, and new inventions and innovations. Labor becomes the market where ideas are tested and made to compete, and the cycle repeats.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:05pmGood dissection AVENGERK !!!!
Informative……illustrative………and entertaining to boot !!!
Keep up the good work my friend.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:20pmcheers RIGHTSOFBILLY
Report Post »AxelPhantom
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:30pmVox,
So what is stopping you from starting a company that works on “economic democracy”?
That is what is great about a free market system. IF you want to work for such a company, figure out what it is that you need to do to start one, gather people together who are interested or who like your ideas and go for it, unlike Communism, the only thing stopping you is you.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:36pm@LORD_FROSTWIND
“Feudalism was a system dependent upon a King doling out the territory to the vassals that had his favor. In Capitalism, there is no true nobility that decides whom the vassals are.”
The government still doles out protections to the vassals in their favor – I suspect this is something you and I could agree on (again, to re-emphasize: ‘socialists want big government!’ is a misnomer. particularly when applied to anarchists like myself).
“You have to answer me one question.”
If I must!
“What right do you have to another’s property?”
What right does one have to their own property? What is property? John Locke, a 17th century Englishman, thought that property was that with which one “mixed their labor.” In other words, when you work for something, you own it. The common example is that of a man picking an apple from a tree – because he has plucked the apple, the apple belongs to him (we’re assuming no one owns the tree). The serfs who worked the artistocrats’ land rightfully owned that land; the workers of today should claim some ownership of their workplaces. One more point – Locke went on to state that if you have so many apples you can’t eat them all, while others starved, you’ve no right to the excess apples.
This man can’t be easily dismissed, he’s considered the father of Classical Liberalism and his philosophy heavily influenced – indeed, essentially justified – the Declaration of Independence.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:42pm@MRMARK, MTCOUNTRYGRL
Both of your points are similar – “Business owners work too!” – so I’ll address them jointly. You guys aren‘t really the people I’m talking about. I understand a lot of small business owners work plenty. That’s great. But they’re not the high-finance-investor-class I’m talking about when I complain of capitalists. Look to Wall Street, to capital firms like Romney’s that bought up companies and tore them apart. Romney made millions last year purely on his capital investments. No work. Ownership. To put it in OWS’ terms, they’re “the 1%.” (Realistically, they’re like the 0.01%, but whatever).
I’m still going to advocate for the democratization of ALL firms, but the complaints I‘m leveling aren’t towards small business owners or even CEOs (who also work plenty).
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:54pm@A DOCTOR’S LABOR IS NOT MY RIGHT
“It‘s not ownership that’s bad, but state violence and privilege.”
I agree! (Remember – anarchist! Or libertarian socialist, if you prefer). Although I maintain that our current perceptions of ownership are a bit warped.
“In a free market other land owners could bid away workers with higher wages, and the workers would be able to keep what they earned until they could afford to trade for increasingly labor-saving capital of their own, and eventually rent or buy a place of their own.”
One would think. But again – the preponderance of serious wealth inequalities and the social power that capital ownership brings means that those in positions of power can tip the scales. You and I agree on a lot more than you probably think, but I think your main problem is the idea that government and the upper echelons of the private economic realm are truly separate. They’re not. We’re talking about many of the same people trading in and out of their posts. The idea of simply separating them so the “free market” (a concept every bit as nebulous and utopian as Marx’s Communism) can sort everyone out assumes that no one can cheat.
When Soviet Russia fell apart, all the Commissars became CEOs. For working people, nothing changed. So who won the Cold War? The privileged did. The rest of us lost.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:57pm@BARNSY
“Without a leadership structure and business experience ,workers running large businesses is ‘pie in the sky’ nonsense.”
Again, I’m not suggesting that management be eliminated as a group. I’m suggesting that selections of management become subject to more democratic controls. If workers in a firm want to decide that they should get different wages based on different jobs, or certain people should be in administrative positions, whatever, that’s their prerogative. That’s democracy.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:02pm@AVENGERK
“’Let’s define a few things here…’ You see that? That’s where in classic lefty fashion VOXIE wants to steer the conservation away from the truth and re-define it in lefty terms he takes a kernel of truth and then proceeds to mangle it beyond recognition to suit his lefty narrative.”
The definition of capitalism you’re using – laissez-faire Friedmanite economics – is a super recent definition. It’s a hyper-specific definition that has no historical background. The word itself was created by the original socialists of the early 1800s, who were trying to define the new industrial/government merger that was running around replacing mercantilism and feudalism all over Europe.
The reason I’m taking time to define things is because conservatives general pre-define them in the simplest terms possible. “Capitalism = freedom!!!!!11!1! Socialism = big government!!!11!” That dichotomy is historical wrong, ideologically wrong, and wrong in definition. I’m not trying to pull a fast one, I‘m trying to make sure we’re all on the same page.
I guarantee the comrades in the video don’t just mean “market economics” when they say Capitalism. I guarantee they don’t just mean “government owns e’rything” when they say Socialism. So if that‘s what you’re assuming, then confusion follows when we start talking past each other because we’re using similar words with totally different meanings.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:11pmMTCOUNTRYGIRL…see how it works? VOX POPULI meant the other business owner…not you.
You’re a good business owner…sorry..Business WORKER. No it’s “the other guy” that’s an evil “owner”.
So now you can vote for VOX POPULI’s guy who will eventually start calling you the “rich guy”.
Then VOXIE will demand his party elite tax you harder when they realise the OTHER guy VOX POPULI was talking about- the one who he’s taxing the sh#t out of already- still isn‘t filling the coffers to pay for VOX POPULI’s socialist paradise.
Welcome to VOX POPULI’s magical world of lefty illusions, tricks and delusions.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:18pm@Lloyd Drako,
“A situation such as many libertarians seem to imagine, in which the state simply disappeared and every man enjoyed his own vine and his own fig tree, protected by his own arsenal, would quickly devolve into something resembling feudalism.”
Not so. It’s the Marxist principle of anti-trust that CREATES monopoly and corporatism.
See here.
Anti-Trust and Monopoly (with Ron Paul)
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4gRRk2i-M
Twobyfour
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:20pmVox, we already talked about the workers as owners. If the workers pool their monies and establish a biz/factory, there is no one that would have any objections and I‘d wish ’em good fortunes. But workers taking over a company that was capitalized by someone else, that is simply stealing.
Of course, unions would not want to own a factory, that would be the end of their racket. Government Motors notwithstanding–they are doomed to fail.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:25pmVOX POPULI….don’t put on your top hat and cane and start performing for me champ. I saw the duplicitious lefty rote you offered as you mangled capitalism beyond recognition. I called you on it and you still come back with the same puerile lefty routine?
I love some of these new tricks you’ve added to your act Houdini. “The orginal socialists” (waves the hand…) and “my” version of capitalism is “super-recent” and not really anything we should be discussing here (distracts the audience)…let‘s go back to VOXIE’s version of capitalism where there’s “workers and owners”.and the only viable option is “socialism” but it’s the sanitized and approved one VOXIE is peddling right now (or is that the super recent one?) not the Greek, Italian, Spanish, Portuguese, French, British..ad nauseum one we’re seeing in front of our eyes today.
But as we saw later on…VOXIE has to clarify a little when he’s caught out..there’s good business owners like MTCOUNTRYGIRL and bad ones that “own” only. Do you have scales and a forked tongue VOXIE?
Come on VOXIE…did you really think your lefty professor’s garbage had any traction with me? Go back and tell your version of Bill Ayers that he failed you champ. he created a robot. Trust me..I know about business, it‘s costs and it’s risks very intimately. It’s nothing like what you attempt to portray it as.
Report Post »Twobyfour
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:33pmAlso, for publicly-traded companies… the workers can buy shares and that way get involved in the company management. You have that option in capitalism, but you don’t have any options in other political/economical systems. The formal “ownership” of the means of production by the “workers” under socialism/communism is just a ruse–the state = nomenclatura and them are the real owners.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:50pm@vox_populi,
(I’m a lay Austrian Economist, by the way.)
“Romney made millions last year purely on his capital investments. No work. Ownership. To put it in OWS’ terms, they’re “the 1%.” (Realistically, they’re like the 0.01%, but whatever).”
If we were talking about a freed market, I would say that Romney owns the money he trades freely with those who freely trade their businesses, and there is nothing amiss – not with the sale that resulted in a loss for the prior owner, and not for the workers who were displaced from a job to which they were never entitled.
But there is another factor at work. The reason the businesses had to be sold in the first place was because there was a misallocation of resources. A misallocation of materials that went into the building and capital, and a misallocation of the workers hired by the company.
Such misallocations of resources are the result of artificial credit expansion, like when the Fed increases the money supply.
Artificial credit expansions explain: economic bubbles and crashes, why capital markets are hit hardest in a crash, clusters of errors, depressions;
And it is also the reason America benefits at the expense of other countries.
The free market doesn’t screw up the economy – fiat money does.
See here.
Smashing Myths and Restoring Sound Money | Thomas E. Woods, Jr.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAzExlEsIKk
mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 5:58pmI am so sick of the terminally brain dead advocating for Socialism and Communism! IT DOES NOT WORK!!! Europe started out Socialist, experimented with Capitalism and began to prosper. Then for some reason went back to Socialist policies and we can ALL see how well that is working for them. America started out Capitalist and prospered like the world had never seen! Then slowly over time started to experiment with Socialism and Crony Capitalism. The result, well look around. True Capitalism and FREEDOM are the only keys to success and prosperity. The talking heads want you to believe that the only reason Socialism hasn’t worked is because the right people have not tried it. What is the definition of insanity?
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:07pmAlso, at Vox
Report Post »The reason I work so hard now is so that some day one of my companies might put me on the Forbes list. A recent report by Forbes showed that 90% of BILLIONAIRES (thats right I said Billion) are self made. That means they worked hard and invented something people wanted and got rich doing it. I recently engaged in a conversation with an OWS type about income inequality. I think I blew his hair off when I said income inequality is one of the best things about America. Why would I say that…Name one invention one huge world changing inovation in the last 100 years that did not come from America. How about Sports, why does America continue to produce the best athletes in the world? The best movies? Why does America continue to produce the best of the best in the world in every category? Because wealth is a mighty motivator! Only in America can you make MILLIONS for playing a sport. Pretty big incentive to get up and practice every day. Only in America can you make BILLIONS if you invent the next big thing. Pretty big incentive to take risks and invest everything you have. Income “inequality” is what drives the inventors, the Hollywood dreamers, the athlete, the musician, etc. America produces the best of the best because we handsomely reward those who acheive it.
AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:18pmVOXIE….I take it that you don’t like what Romney did for Staples, Sports Authority and Dominos? I’m sure their customers and workers would have something different to say on that. Romney’s company could either save businesses or liquidate a businesses…that‘s the nature of business and it’s risks.
But please…by all means VOXIE…start your own business and begin to address that terrible “preponderence of wealth inequality” (acknowledgement to lefty lexicon) you keep bleating about. There are oppressed workers waiting for you to “unoppress” them.
What’s that VOXIE? You don’t have the capital, drive, savvy, industriousness, knowledge, or the backbone to take on the the risk and responsibility to do something like that? You don’t want to lead by example? No? So we’re relegated to just having to wade through your turgid lefty rote about capitalism (super-recent or otherwise)? Is that all you can offer the worker?
Ok well..so it’s back to demanding others pay for you then.
Report Post »Sue Dohnim
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:23pm@VOXIE
You are correct the terms are contextually significant, but instead of using “capitalism” use free market, this is better description as capitalism has been completely subverted by corporatism and fascists. In a free market you have success and failure based on individual freedom to choose. Failure and the fear of failure is essential, like heaven and hell. Failure, based on bad decisions weens out malinvestment. In socialism, corporatism, collectivism there is a heaven without hell, there is no failure, participants are bailed out, no clearing of bad decisions, waste and inefficiencies, and individuals are forced or coerced into engaging in the bad decisions from a select few. This is the fundamental problem, a small group or few can never know all the information necessary to make the best decisions for all. Collectivists will never admit this essential flaw in their ideology, that individual participants making voluntary decisions based on knowledge in their best interest, when compiled in a free market, always makes better decisions than a small group of “elites” imposing decisions on others. Are they always correct no, but it the best system to clear bad decisions and get closer to the truth.
Society is too complex for a central planning authority to utilize available knowledge in a just mechanism.
Hayek explains it..
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNbYdbf3EEc
phunkejay
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:26pmvox – lord frostwind corrected you quite accurately. the difference is OPPORTUNITY.
Report Post »Favored93
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:27pm@vox_populi
Report Post »You have either not thought this out or are just an ignorant hipy.
Capitalism is not the old English aristocracy were you had only those who own and those who work but get nothing but a boot on your neck!…..Under our system a kid in collage can build a billion dollar computer company in a garage or a man can build a restaurant chain worth billions using a milkshake stand!
Under OUR system you can work hard and keep what you earn (or at least we could before you commies took over) or you can do nothing and get nothing. The choice and opportunity is all yours!!! That my ignorant friend is the beauty of freedom and the free market! If you do not like it you and those like you are also free to move… Don’t stay here and ruin it for my children!!!!!
mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:27pmNow if our income “inequality” was like it is in say India, you might have an argument. In India there are two classes of people…those who are starving to death and those with servants. In America, our poor are still in the riches 1% in the world. Has anyone ever seen a news story where a poor person starved to death in the street. We are the only country in the world where we have an obesity problem in our poor. The income inequality is not because our poor are so poor, it is because our rich are so RICH! The best thing about America is you are self made. You chose your destiny. If you are poor in America it is usually a result of bad choices. I would say about 95% of the time. Dropped out of High School, commited a crime, abuse drugs or alcohol, get divorced or never marry (creating single parent homes), or have a poor work ethic. A family of 4, with two parents working full time (even if they only make minimum wage) is above the poverty line. Now if you are over 25 and still working for minimum wage you have other issues. I got my first job at 15 for minimum wage and have not worked for that low a wage since. You build a resume and you move up.
Report Post »Berbel73
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 6:50pm@Vox_Populi You said, “The serfs who worked the artistocrats’ land rightfully owned that land; the workers of today should claim some ownership of their workplaces. One more point – Locke went on to state that if you have so many apples you can’t eat them all, while others starved, you’ve no right to the excess apples.” This statement is based on a false premise. The workers of today are part of a labor market. The employer/owner chooses those from that market based on the employee’s specific skill set and with an expectation that they will be a benefit to his/her business. The owner is taking a risk in hiring and investing in an employee. If the employee doesn‘t perform to the owner’s expectation and as a result the business loses money, the loss is the owner‘s alone and not the employee’s. So if the employee doesn’t claim any of the business losses then they should neither claim any of the profits. While some owners do offer a percent profit sharing as a part of their employee benefits package in order to attract the best employees possible, mandated profit sharing would be nothing less than communism and therefor is at odds with the capitalist system for the very reasons that I’ve laid out above. As for your later comment about the apples, that is where charity comes into play. Most of the well to do people that I know share in their bounty with the less fortunate of their own volition, and to deny someone their rightful property based on need is
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 7:10pm@ Berbel
Report Post »Well SAID!!! Last month one of our employees made a mistake that ruined a piece of furniture we were building. To make a new one cost us $4000 in materials. We paid the employee for his time the first time he built it and then again for his time the second time he built it. The result a $5,000 loss on that particular project. We absorbed that entirely, because that is the risk in business and the problem with employees. Sometimes they make mistakes that cost you money. I have always believed that the phrase “If you want something done right, do it yourself” was coined by an employer.
Berbel73
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 7:15pmMarxism. If a person only had the expectation of keeping what they could “consume” then they would only produce as much and no more, and thus the starving would still starve. Also to force someone to produce more than they could consume and to set an arbitrary amount that they must produce or face some sort of punitive measure is again communism and therefor is at odds wth the capitalist system and the free market.
Report Post »I see that your marxist college professors have done a bang up job of indoctrinating you. Hopefully from the responses that you’ve got here you will begin to see the falsities that marxism and communism promise. Capitalism and the free market system are the only true way to real freedom.
Better Dead Than Red
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 7:26pmI do agree with one thing someone said: buy local!!
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 7:53pm@Better Dead Than Red,
“I do agree with one thing someone said: buy local!!”
That is also Marxism, if people are forced to buy local. There is absolutely nothing detrimental about buying foreign, per se.
The division of labor is a good thing. Outsourcing jobs is a good thing because the purchasing power of the importing country increases.
See here.
Defending the Undefendable (Chapter 23: The Importer) by Walter Block
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTT_WHyzZ54
(Note that our fiat money does benefit America at the expense of other countries, but the principle of outsourcing jobs as being a good thing is still valid.)
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 8:12pm@ Doctor’s Labor
Report Post »You would be right about outsoursing except one thing. Thank Uncle Teddy for social security taxes, and medicare taxes and unemployment taxes. Labor is SOOOOO costly in America that we can no longer compete on the world market. Here the giant sucking sound of jobs fleeing this country. If we went to a national sales tax and got rid of all the front end taxes, we could compete. When you tax the final product it levels the playing field because even though wages are less over seas you have to account for shipping. Get rid of Buisness taxes and payroll taxes and jobs and companies will flock back to this country.
Shiroi Raion
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 8:20pmMarxism is the quickest way to mass poverty and death. The main reasons for unnecessary poverty in America are the Socialist policies, wasteful spending, over regulation and taxation, and corruption caused by the government.
Report Post »The only way in which corporations can enslave people is through government corruption. In Socialism, corporate corruption is taken out of the equation, and the population is almost entirely enslaved by the government.
What Socialist government is doing well for its people? Most Socialist countries are trying to reverse the damage… these OWS, Progressive and Liberal pinheads are all BACKWARDS, not FORWARD.
If Fox News had the nerve to air what we know and show them in their own words like GBTV has done. Most people wouldn’t be stupid, evil, or insane enough to vote for Obama. I don‘t think most people know about Obama’s longtime buddy, Ayers, wanting to kill millions of innocent people.
Capitalism was never the problem, corruption is, and Obama embraces that same corruption How do you expect to create a good society through evil means? Corruption and lies can only create a more corrupt society than we have. Smaller government and restoring the lost American and family values is the only way to stay free.
Better Dead Than Red
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 9:41pm@Doc,
I buy local because I choose to. Notice the word “force” is no where in my post.
Report Post »Pull that 2×4 out of your @$$ and learn how to read!
ZZMike
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 9:55pmNow you know why Obama and his minions will win in November. One word: Unions. Does anyone think the unions, either Federal or private, are going to give up their cushy lifestyles, their control of state and local governments, their plum pensions and other benefits by voting for the party that wants to take those things away?
Not in this life.
Unless we roust the people who have to pay all those bills, and get them to vote conservative (Republican, when you can find them), we’re going to continue to be taxed and regulated into slavery.
The problem with Ron Paul is, if I vote for him, that’ll make 17 of us. And every vote for Paul is a vote taken away from the guy who just might beat Obama – whoever that is,
Now that the dust has settled, the choice is clear. At least one of those two has character.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 11:20pm@mtcountrygrl,
“Labor is SOOOOO costly in America that we can no longer compete on the world market. Here the giant sucking sound of jobs fleeing this country. If we went to a national sales tax and got rid of all the front end taxes, we could compete. When you tax the final product it levels the playing field because even though wages are less over seas you have to account for shipping.”
The misunderstanding you have as it pertains to competition is that you think you have an inalienable right to the patrons of another business. This is the mentality from which anti-trust laws come, as well as, by extension, Corporatism and (by extension of Corporatism) Imperialism.
(Marxism and Corporatism are, indeed, two sides of the same coin.)
We have a right to ATTEMPT to draw customers away from other businesses by lowering our prices or producing a product of superior quality or by better customer service.
But no one has a right to force a business to reduce their effectiveness at pleasing consumers, just because another business sucks at it.
If you use government to stop people from cornering the market, you raise the costs of production for everyone.
There’s nothing wrong with outsourcing, or with businesses cornering the market, in a freed market system; Everyone purchasing power becomes greater, and any attempt to “price gouge” invites competitors, so is short-lived.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 11:31pm@Better Dead Than Red,
“I buy local because I choose to. Notice the word “force” is no where in my post.”
But you wouldn’t have brought it up unless you thought it was economically beneficial to buy local. But that’s not necessarily the case.
If buying local provides cheaper or better quality goods, then do that. But if having comparable goods imported from China and sold at Walmarts is cheaper, then THAT is actually preferable.
Believe it or not, free trade is a better weapon against Communist China than is refusing their products. If we get our government out of the way and become more productive, then China will be FORCED to loosen its grip on the liberty of its citizens because free people are the best producers.
Report Post »A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 4, 2012 at 12:49am“Believe it or not, free trade is a better weapon against Communist China …”
Not that other countries’ doings are any of our business. But if you wanted to keep Communism from spreading, then free trade is the cure.
Report Post »Better Dead Than Red
Posted on May 4, 2012 at 10:16am@Doc,
It isn’t always economical, but it depends on what I am buying. For instance, we buy free range eggs (true free range) that cost about a dollar more than Walmart down the street.. but they are the best eggs you’ve ever had and they have made a huge difference in our diet. There is a price/quality trade off. It is worth the extra dollar or so for a much higher quality. Other things are way over priced and we prefer to just buy them at a store.
Report Post »mtcountrygrl
Posted on May 4, 2012 at 11:53am@ Doctors
Report Post »I don’t believe I have a “right” to another business’s patrons. What I was saying is our government’s burdensome tax code makes it impossible for us to COMPETE for those patrons. The government does this all the time. High taxes and regulations on one business while subsidizing a competitor. What I was saying is we need tax reform so that American businesses can compete on a level playing field. If everyone in America saw the payroll expenses (in excess of the wages) you would understand. FICA, FUTA, State Unemployment, Workmans Comp, these all are a percent of gross wages. In our state it all comes out to about 20% on top of the wage (varies by industry).
A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
Posted on May 4, 2012 at 1:47pm@mtcountrygrl,
“The government does this all the time. High taxes and regulations on one business while subsidizing a competitor. What I was saying is we need tax reform so that American businesses can compete on a level playing field.”
Government is such a burden, I agree. America didn’t used to have an Income Tax.
The justification for the Income Tax is that we supposedly need all these government programs and departments. But, in fact, it was collectivist beliefs that caused all of our economic problems.
We didn’t need to be saved from bank runs, because bank runs kept the destruction of banks’ fractional reserve lending (FRL) local, rather than exporting our inflation via our central bank being able to print other countries’ reserve currency; So we didn’t need a central bank or fiat money.
We didn’t need to be saved from falling prices which came from the FRL of private banks, because it was artificial credit expansion that caused the bubble to begin with; So we don’t need an easily expandable money supply.
We didn’t need to be saved from greedy capitalists who supposedly are the source of economic crashes, because it is the artificially low interest rates caused by FRL and the Fed which distorts market prices such that capitalists THINK they are getting a good deal on interest rates; So we don’t need anti-trust laws.
And on and on.
Report Post »The Third Archon
Posted on May 5, 2012 at 4:18pm“Vox- part of the problem with your analogy is the serfs can’t become landowners. Anyone can start a business and become an owner. But not everyone wants to. Some people just want to work and come home. Being an owner means that you are taking a risk. Being a worker means that when you are done, you’re done.”
Report Post »If only it were that simple. However, workers take at least as much risk as the capitalists, you call them “owners” (the person who legally “owns” a business is the one with controlling shares) which is also accurate, because the workers suffer too when the capitalists’ gambling fails to pay off–and it’s the capitalists who have the wealth and power to either have themselves bailed out, or set aside contingency resources–the working poor don’t have that luxury. And that’s what your economic analysis ignores and obscures–the system is set up in a such a way, that literally (as you yourself recognize) we CAN’T all choose to be capitalists, and what purely selfish person WOULDN‘T choose to earn money simply for owning things one bought through gambling with other peoples’ money? The fact of the matter is that the VAST majority of us don’t have, and will NEVER have, the kinds of resources necessary to make a living off capital ownership, and the system as designed COULDN’T support any more then a very small minority of individuals who attain these fantastic heights of wealth.
BlackCrow
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:59pmDon’t like it? GO TO CUBA!!!!
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:14pmExactly! If you conservatives don’t like it, you’re free to move to Cuba or anywhere else. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
Report Post »Lord_Frostwind
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:28pmSorry wannabe patriot, it’s your side who worships the ground Castro walks upon, and it is your side who keeps saying we need to be like everybody else. SCREW‘EM’ALL! If you want this to be your frutopia, then you’ll have to take it from my cold dead hands.
Report Post »GIRTHMAN
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:34pmThis is the best way to let them represent themselves…Keep it up..
absolutely mind numbing- makes no sense what so ever.. KIDS. SEE WHAT HUFFING PAINT DOES !!
Report Post »kat747
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:40pmNo….capitalism is here in the USA – Americans stay
Report Post »and
communistic socialism is in Cuba – Anti-Americans go.
Not a hard one.
Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:46pm@Lord_Frostwind, my side? You don’t know what my side is. Anyway, it’s the sour grapes conservatives who are always bringing up Cuba and Venezuela. Really inside their tiny minds!
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:36pm“Ed, hate to break it to you but OWS and Tea Party are more alike than they are different. Get over yourself.” This from WORST PATRIOT? What country are you from? THEY ARE NOTHING alike.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:37pmAt least we HAVE minds. You’re OUT of yours..
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:43pmBEST-PATRIOT..the only missing from your posts are you blowing raspberries and a few “nyah nyah’s”. By the way why did you leave yourself out of the picture you’re using for yourself here…you know…the horse’s arse? Were you shy when the picture was taken?
Report Post »barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:58pmOH MY GOD! Honestly, I cant even bring myself to get angry at these morons. Its hard for me to believe that anyone in our country could be this clueless.Arguing with them would be completely pointless,their too dense.It would take years of intense deprogramming just to get them up to the level of ignorant.If this isnt an indictment of our public education system, I dont know what is.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:07pmHey JZS,
Your Peeps dude.
If you put all that crap in to words, you‘ll have that JZS Manifesto I’ve been asking you to put to paper for us.
Sorry to put this post here, but JZS won‘t see it if it’s not on the front page.
Report Post »Arshloch
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:50pmAll the ‘protesters’, i.e. fools who hate capitalism, are welcome to move to Somalia, or any other hell hole that espouses their stupidity, and live like the animals they admire and endevor to emulate; oh yes take Ayres and Dorn with them.
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:06pmYou are welcome to move to Somalia with your beloved Tea Party, too. If you don’t like living with the OWS people, you should move.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:08pm@Horse
Did you really just refer to owsers as “people”?
Report Post »Brad Wesselmann
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:19pmIf we moved, Best_Patriot, who would pay for all of the “services” they demand, and who would solve the problems they are too inept to even conceive much less understand, who would they protest next, the government? That would be a huge error because it is that very government itching to increase their power and destroy opposition and you and your ilk would be the only ones left.
If we moved or went on “strike”, millions would die and you likely would be one of them….please wake up for you own survival, because if you don‘t you certainly won’t survive and we won’t be here to help you, we’ll be too busy turning Somalia into an productive economic powerhouse and bastion of liberty.
Report Post »Ed_Kel
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:24pm@Horse
There’s no sense in moving away from a group of people that could barely fill a single park. Got a problem with OWS? Do what I do – turn the corner and keep driving.
The Tea Party is a fundamental transformation of what America stands for. OWS is a very small group of lazy, entitled tree huggers that thinks the best way to inflict change is to create violence and preach communism.
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:27pm@Therightsofbilly, funny how you conservatives carry on about your respect for this country and constitution, yet you only see people of your own ideology as citizens (or humans, for that matter). Says more about conservative hypocrisy than anything else. Sorry your life is going so poorly, hope things turn around for you soon.
Report Post »GIRTHMAN
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:31pmThe OWS slime will slither back into the sewers soon enough
Report Post »Brad Wesselmann
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:33pmGood point, Ed.
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:39pmEd, hate to break it to you but OWS and Tea Party are more alike than they are different. Get over yourself.
PS, your definition of the tea party is pretty funny/self-important/sad.
Report Post »GIRTHMAN
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:46pmIf you guys would at least shower
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:48pm@Horse
While the underlying theme of my original post does have merit, what it has shown, by way of your reply, is that liberals, and owsers alike, have absolutely no grasp of nuance, sarcasm, or humor.
In other words………..IT WAS A JOKE
Maybe not a great one………but a joke none the less.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:50pm@BRAD
Good post !!!
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:54pmOh…And Horse,
That Tea Party = OWS thing?
Not so much.
Really.
I mean it.
Seriously……..not so much.
Report Post »Ed_Kel
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:04pm@Horse
I only call it as I see it. Watch an OWS protest – then watch a Tea Party protest; watch the violence blossom from OWS – then watch Tea Party congressmen/women get the job done – then tell me again how funny/self-important/sad my views are. All you have are your words and your sparky one-liners to get around people like me but one thing that you can’t deny (even though I’m sure you will) is that the facts are on our side, not yours. So go ahead and tell people like me to get over themselves. Reply to every single comment on this thread and tell them just how wrong they really are. At the end of the day, we’ll be the ones shaking our heads at people like you who [sadly] somehow find a way to let so much ignorance lead to your arrogance.
And if all of that just flew over your ill-informed, uneducated brain, I‘ll stoop down a bit so you can understand what I’m saying – go f*** yourself.
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:19pm@Ed_Kel, tea party congressmen/women “getting the job done?” haha, what have they got done, other than attend fat gov‘t parties and sit on their asses like most everyone in gov’t does? what happened to “holding their feet to the fire?” you got nothing out of those elections. the tea party is a joke. ows is a joke. there you go, there‘s one way they’re alike. another way they’re alike? neither group can form a cohesive message. ask 10 tea bags what it stands for and you’ll get 20 answers. same with ows. tea bags like their medicare and social security and roads and public works. ows likes their cell phones and consumer goods. etc etc. so yeah buddy, get over yourself. this country is inhabited by people of all political persuasions. that’s how it goes. live with it, and while you’re at it, stop picking your arse…your fingers stink.
Report Post »FstEti
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:30pm@BEST_PATRIOT. I thought at first that your comments were cleverly sarcastic but then I clicked onto your name and saw several other posts on an array of topics. Sadly, you appear to be just another moronic liberal. Just one question, please; are you a college student or a professor? Your blatant stupidity appears to qualify you for either position.
Report Post »Have a nice day.
RedDirtTexas
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:36pm@ Best_Patriot Na Ni Na Ni Boo Boo Stick your head in Doo Doo! Your young, 12 year old mind understand that? That’s what you sound like.
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:36pm@FstEti, spoken like someone who never attended school. what are you, a cop?
Report Post »Best_Patriot
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:43pm@RedDirtTexas, uh, you said it, not me!
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:49pmDING…OWS talking point hit..“denigrate cops”. Super anarchist points for BEST-PATTY. Now..let’s see if he can hit 3 more super lefty talking points and open up the bonus level…go PATTY…go..champ.
Report Post »Ed_Kel
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:50pmI didn’t see my point, Horse, and that’s okay; I didn’t expect you to.
It doesn’t matter what the Tea Party congressmen/women are/are not doing. What matters is that they are there. If OWS wants to inflict change, they could take a few pages from the Tea Party’s book.
Now back to my arse picking.
Report Post »Therightsofbilly
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:52pm@Horse
Social Security is supposedly an insurance policy, and is funded by our premiums that we pay. (Even though we pay them by no choice of our own, and said premiums are automatically deducted from our paychecks.)
Did you know that? Why didn’t they just mandate that we all must open, and contribute to our own retirement account? (Good question you are asking yourself right now, huh?)
Ok, please tell us, what are those 20 different answers you would get from Tea Party members? I can only think of a few, and they all boil down to the same basic theme, and central problematic cause.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:55pmLiving WITH OWS PATTY? Don’t you mean living IN SPITE of OWS? I mean…you don’t recall the businesses around Zucotti Park that had to fire their employees and shut their doors because OWS made it too difficult to stay in bussiness?
Report Post »RedDirtTexas
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:09pm@ Best_Patriot My daddy can beat up your daddy!
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:11pmDING..OWS TALKING POINT SUPER BONUS POINTS for PATTY. “OWS and the Tea parties are alike”. Because in PATTYland….demanding that the tax payer..sorry..the rich guy…pay for everything for you and the government making all your decisions for you is the same as demanding lower taxation for everyone, government fiscal responsibility and smaller government. Let’s see if PATTY can hit two more OWS talking points to get himself into the SUPER BONUS ROUND where he has a chance to win the big prizes….a pair of birkenstocks, one of those nifty Chairman Mao hats with the red star on the front, an iPad (because every poor little OWSer needs one) and a Che’ T-Shirt. We’ll be right back after a word from the party.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:44pmSo exciting to see YOURSENSI resurrected AGAIN….this time accompanied with the picture of the wrong end of a horse and another 99% Big Lie name, Best patriot. Hope we get rid of Obama so this kid can get a real job..
Report Post »Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:47pmI get a good laugh every time I see one of these videos. These people are truly ignorant if they think that their alternatives could work at all. Communism and socialism have already been proven to be failures and something like a gift economy would likely produce mass starvation and chaos within days.
Unions seizing the means of production? What do union leaders know about running a business and making ends meet? Their specialty is creating a sense of entitlement among the membership and milking business for all they can get. They’d run things bankrupt in a month.
Report Post »vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:27pm“Unions seizing the means of production? What do union leaders know about running a business and making ends meet? Their specialty is creating a sense of entitlement among the membership and milking business for all they can get. They’d run things bankrupt in a month.”
Yes, what do factory workers know about running a factory? Probably a lot less then multimillion-dollar investors who’ve never worked a day in their lives, amirite?
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:46pmVOX Obama: yeah, those nasty multimillionaire investors ” who never worked a day in their lives. ” Yeah, they just woke up one morning and pulled money out of the air ?? Of course they worked to earn the money they are now INVESTING. You know, the money that buys the factory equipment that those factory workers need to perform their jobs ! How clueless are you ? And just how do you think that these wonderful factory workers can create products without the factories being repaired , the equipment being purchased, and the goods being purchased which are used to make the products ? The investors need the factory workers work AND the factory workers need the investors money . Very simple. But apparently news to you… Go slap your mentors who filled you with their angry, loser philosophy. They have scammed you – big time. ( these losers have been doing this for years – hiding in their ivory towers and angry with the rest of the world )
Report Post »seeker9
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:12pm@VOX
Report Post »You are wrong. Those investors put up the capital and let the professionals run the company. The shareholders are given the opportunity to say how the company is run. After all, shareholder means owning a share of the company.
Dougral Supports Israel
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:35pmMany of the investors are also workers, even union workers. Retirement and personal investment accounts own trillions of dollars worth of stock and receive dividends when the company makes a profit. Its a beautiful circle of prosperity that even in the hard times we are in now is unmatched by any other system.
Report Post »IMAWAKENOW
Posted on May 4, 2012 at 12:51amUnions seizing production “running things” will NEVER work. A union’s only purpose is to take as much capitol from the company that they can get away with. If every union in the country woke up tomorrow owning every busines and cost of production as well as all the benifit packages they have coerced over the years they would be falling over themselves rescinding these obligations. The greedy fu*ks would sell their sisters before loosing money.
Report Post »RougeFastFingers
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:45pmThose old marxists never give it up, still trying to push the 19th century nonsense of Marx and Engels on us.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:48pmAtheism… goes hand and glove… with the thinking that a Group of Humans are smarter than… an Automated, Self Adjusting, System of Supply & Demand!
Report Post »jackact
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:44pmThere is no better alternative to capitalism, which is a proven productive economic principal worldwide.
Report Post »The problem is that in order to have effective capitalism much more than 50% of the population are required to go to work. On a weekly basis.
That is why OWS and the entitlement classes have a strong aversion to capitalism.
Forever they will seek an alternative that allows them more ‘playtime’ than work time.
There us none.
So get off your miserable lazy asses and join the ranks of the producers.
Hurry up too because the well will surely run dry soon.
Then what?
vox_populi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:31pm“There is no better alternative to capitalism, which is a proven productive economic principal worldwide.”
What KIND of capitalism? There’s a million different ways to institute the rule of the Ownership Class over the people. The problem I see too often with the Tea Party is they’ve boiled everything down to black and white, where Capitalism ONLY means a Friedmanite economy (which actually isn’t “proven,” as it’s only about 40 years old as a theory and never fully implemented) and Socialism ONLY means a Soviet-style command economy (which was hardly socialist as workers were never actually given any control). You leave no room for debate.
Report Post »barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:29pm@Vox If we were to go to your “perfect” system the only thing that you would accomplish would be to replace the“ownership” class with a well connected political class.The only difference is that the political class would have more control over you.
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:35pmAND again.. YOU are “not the voice of the people” here.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:16pmVOX POPULI…isn’t this the point where you fall around in the mud and cry “look at the violence inherent in the system..help..help I’m being repressed” while Grahman Chapman dressed as King Arthur looks on?
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 4:37pmBARNSY..Bingo! But where you underestimate VOXIE is that he wants government control of the individual.
Let me illustrate it like this:
Look at what Soros is trying in Europe right now. He‘s demanding that the EU tear up it’s charters and their governments step in to impose whatever they see fit. Consitutions and charters be d@mned. Soros though is heavily invested in Italian debt..to the tune of billions of dollars. He bet on the wrong horse.
In fact…“progressives” like the kind of constitutions that are changed every decade or so, at the whim of their politicians. Ruth Ginsberg has hinted at it..certainly the American left is constantly beating it’s “the constiution is antiquated and ill equipped for modern society” drums. Obama has bemoaned the constraints congress (read: the constiution) places on him. You see….VOXIE wants government to do as it pleases…and when the people are given little treats..they get hooked and vote for the government that keeps giving them to them. Giving away a little bit of freedom each time…until…you’re Greece or Spain or Portugal, or Italy..etc.
Report Post »SICKOFCOMMIES
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 11:11pmVox, Your and idiot. I am sick of people like you trying to use definitions and misdirection to get people to believe you. You are an idiot. If you so strongly disagree with america, get out. You only have the right to say these things because you live in America. Everyone here supports your right to be an idiot, you are the one that should chose not to be one. Trust me that you are not smarter than the men that fought for and made this country. Capitalism in the hans of men that let it worked flourished. We now give more money and food to other countries than any other form of government. Yet that is not proof enough for you. You have been so well educated that no one can convince you otherwise. If you feel oppressed or punished by Romney making money, then find a way to make more and put him out of business, Remember to give it all to the OWS people though, and remember to break windows and **** on churches while your doing it. You and all of these young kids that have no work ethic and believe work is posting on twiter is a job , are the problem. Please dont post more communist lover phrases about how fair things should be anymore. The silent majority is asking you to be more silent. Please move to china and live there as a citizen for a bit and see if you want a redo after a while. My father is a union leader. I know what happens when unions get power, god help us when the lazy like you get power and expect everything for nothing.
Report Post »Sharon Rose
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:43pmPoor misguided fools.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:36pmWell, they get on tv and in newspaper to show how ignorant they really are about life.
You can’t get something for nothing such as the clothes they are wearing, the food they eat, etc. Whoever talked them into their way of thinking are probably sitting home in their big house, enjoying whatever capitalism brought them. I bet they can’t even decide who is in charge of doing nothing and waiting for the checks to roll in.
Report Post »ixmfourxi
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:35pmI am now dumber from watching that video…Darn it! I wont get those minutes back!
Report Post »Leader1776
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:32pmWell, they certain seem to have all the answers. You probably wondered what JZS, ENCINOM, and JROOK looked like. Now you know.
Report Post »Re-Founding Sons
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 3:45pmLololol
Report Post »Mandors
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:31pmBartering is capitalism. Whether you’re paying in rice, salt, gold or dollars it doesn’t matter.
Report Post »barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:16pm@Mandors Great point! Ever since we stopped living as hunter/gatherers and started living in permanent settlements bartering (capitalism) was our main system of commerce.Even the hunter/gatherer tribes traded with other groups . Ever wonder why every third world villiage had and still has a central (free) marketplace?
Report Post »Cactusjack
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:30pmThat is “rich”, I needed a good laugh…..too bad it’s not funny…..WHATTA BUNCH OF LOSERS!
Report Post »Pilgrimsarbour
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:28pmI’m wondering if there will be any, you know, dentists, in this new Communist utopian society which is coming.
Report Post »barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:27pmSure there will be….Union dentists.Did you see what a good job they did on that union protesters teeth? UNION= QUALITY WORK…LOL
Report Post »TRUTHSENSE
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:21pmBeware of those who still think they can create a utopia, and fail to recognize that we are all sinners. I guess they think we have evolved to that point, but all one has to do is look around at crime and wars around the world. The Bible is truth. Man started in a perfect environment, and look where we are. After Christ returns and rules for a thousand years, man will get another chance and once again prove that we are greedy and rebellious at nature before He is king forever. Kids don’t have to be taught how to fight over toys or make fun of those who are different because they wear glasses, it comes naturally. God gave us free will, but he knew what we would do, that’s why Jesus took our place and paid for our sinfulness.
Report Post »amerbur
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:17pmFall to your knees and pray.
Report Post »razvedka
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:17pmIf these people favor communism or socialism, they should pick up and move to a country more in line with the belief system. But they should go there knowing there will be no tolerance for protest there. If they protest, they will do it from a jail cell.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:37pmYes. They can become like Chen. Trying to escape beatings, prison, and “disappearing” from society ! How dumb and clueless can the young be ? Is this the result in the huge rise in teen marijuana use ? Are their brains ruined and incapable of seeing reality ??
Report Post »Psychosis
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:16pmLOL
content not found
methinks that is the gist of the answers you received
Report Post »Optimist4now
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:15pmI would like to think that these idiots were hand-picked, but I am afraid they are merely representative of the decay of our educational system. God have mercy on our souls!
Report Post »fastfacts1
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:13pmHave you seen Wisconsin teach Anarchy 101. They seem to have taught Occupy since OWS came after Wisc’s great battle. Here is how Wisconsin knows Socialism and Anarchy: http://www.thedailycandidate.com/video/2012/may/anarchy_101.html
Report Post »Lurchbus
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:12pmEver get the chance . You tube obsolete man. This is an episode of the Twilite Zone. This is where our country is headed!!!!!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:11pmOne more reason the Occupy puppeteers must not win.
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:34pmConsidering that they don‘t even realize they’re puppets is another.
Report Post »bpodlesnik
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:09pmI love these videos you guys put together! Keep it up Blaze staff.
Report Post »Mark0331
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:08pm….and they expect to be taken seriously?….An eigth grade civics class has more sense and historical reasoning than any of those ‘adults’….
Report Post »Sue Dohnim
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 1:08pmsurprised that this video hasn’t got any traction..
Occupy & Communist History
Report Post »http://ezralevant.com/2012/05/occupy-communist-history.html
barnsy
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:21pmThe only “tracks” involved in this video are the ones on these filthy commie’s underwear!
Report Post »Abraham Young
Posted on May 3, 2012 at 2:23pmI’m not surprised really. A de-moralized people have difficulty discerning right from wrong.
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