Odd: Atheist to Give Opening ‘Prayer’ at Tulsa City Council Meeting
- Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:18pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Dan Nerran (Photo Credit: Dan Nerran)
On numerous occasions, atheist activists from across America have made known their disdain for prayer at government meetings. But now, at least one non-believer is prepared to join in on public invocations. This Thursday, Dan Nerren, the non-believing founder of the Humanist Association of Tulsa, will offer up an opening prayer at the Tulsa City Council Meeting.
Nerren, who became an atheist after reading a book that purportedly exposed Biblical contradictions, is a retired railroad worker and a former Christian (he was a Southern Baptist before his conversion to non-belief). After years of atheist groups unsuccessfully petitioning to stop religious prayers at these government meetings, the city council took an intriguing step — a move to allow atheists to partake in secular invocations.
“As far as I know, I’ll be the first to offer a secular invocation,” Nerren said, according to NewsOK.com. “I’ll be invoking the council, not a deity.”
What will be his message, you ask? Rather than appealing to God for the well-being of Tulsa residents, the atheist leader will be urging council members to address “the welfare of all people” in the community “by respecting the inherent dignity and worth of each person.”
The concluding line, as presented by NewsOK.com, appears to be inspirational in nature. It reads, “We must remember that in the face of adversity, we need not look above for answers but instead recognize the proven potential within ourselves and in each other to overcome any challenges we face.”
Council invocations are open to people of all faiths, so including atheists is a natural progression. Already, Wiccans, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Native American religious adherents have delivered remarks.
While the American Civil Liberties Union and atheist groups have worked diligently to try and end prayer at government meetings, some are viewing the decision to allow a secular invocation as a second-best alternative. The council has been at odds for years with these groups, who hold that sectarian prayers are unconstitutional. Local officials, though, reject this notion, claiming that their openness to prayer is historically-rooted and constitutional.
Nerren’s prayer seems to be an effort to meet non-believers on middle ground.
(H/T: NewsOK)
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Comments (64)
davecorkery
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:18pmgodhatesfigs
“But just by being an atheist and saying you don’t believe in gods or that you can be good without gods is seen as extreme.”
Isn’t that sad? How insecure are people to allow the word “atheist” to be a “go” word. Who manipulated them to react that way? Who ordered them to never speak to an atheist, lest they be poisoned by facts, knowledge and rational thinking? If they really had faith, they would not be so afraid of us. I once mentioned in passing to a co-worker that I was an atheist, and another colleague who happened to be within earshot jumped up with his fists clenched, and had a look of rage on his face. Having been through this before, I quickly asked him who trained you to react that way? He then got this confused, frightened look on his face and wandered off. Very sad, but temporary.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 5:04pmAre you sure you’re not the one with the look of rage?
It’s a really weird position to take, Atheism. It’d be great if it was what you claim, that you simply don’t believe in God. But that’s never quite enough, is it? As with the Socialist in the article above, he then has to deride the idea of God, and then to invoke concepts of collectivism.
Really, REALLY strange. It‘s almost like it’s not about God at all for you folks, but more like you’re pushing a Socialist agenda.
Report Post »Afterbite
Posted on August 28, 2012 at 6:59pmConversation
Report Post »“So you really are an athiest?
Athiest
“Yes I am….Swear to God!”
1977
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:07pm“As far as I know, I’ll be the first to offer a secular invocation,” Nerren said, according to NewsOK.com. “I’ll be invoking the council, not a deity.”………so,he is openly going to pray to a human body & not a God? Yet, the Christians are the weird ones?
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:19pmHe’s invoking, not praying. And yes, they are weird. And generally harmless.
Report Post »JACKTHETOAD
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:36pmWHAT? Just when you think you’ve heard it all. If I wanna hear babble, I’ll tie a good one on and talk to myself. Who the hell does he think he is? Jim Morrison? “YOU CANNOT PETITION THE LORD WITH PRAYER?” That’s all I can stands, I can’t stands no more. It‘s 5 o’clock HERE!
Report Post »THX-1138
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:28pm“I’ll be the first to offer a secular invocation…”
1 a: the act or process of petitioning for help or support; specifically often capitalized: a prayer of entreaty (as at the beginning of a service of worship)
OK, I’m confused now; Who is he petitioning? Us?
How Special…
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:55pmThat’s exactly who he is petitioning. Real people with real brains and rational thinking. Not magical thinking people, throwing wishes into the air.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 10:37pmDave Don‘t let your Arrogance hit you in the Derriere as you’re walking out the door …Ok
Report Post »Wouldn’t want you to suffer a Concussion.
Hadriker
Posted on August 28, 2012 at 7:45aminvocation: The action of invoking something or someone for assistance or as an authority.
Another definition for you. an invocation is not inherently religious, but it CAN be.
Report Post »tothepoint
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:04pmThis is not odd at all.
Report Post »Atheism meets the criteria for a religion, despite their objections to that truth being told.
They are a godless religion, but a religion nontheless.
So, an atheist giving prayer is reasonable.
THX-1138
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:31pmBut to whom is he praying? That‘s the part I’m having trouble with. If it’s people then why call it Prayer? Couldn’t he just send us an email?
I must admit, I just don’t get this one.
Report Post »JulesBee
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 7:09pm“This is not odd at all.
Atheism meets the criteria for a religion, despite their objections to that truth being told.
They are a godless religion, but a religion nontheless.
So, an atheist giving prayer is reasonable.”
tothepoint: Correct! Which is why their religion should not be endorsed by the state and we should throw it out of our government schools too! Their own argument should now be enforced against them.
Report Post »paperpushermj
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 10:30pm@THX-1138.
Report Post ».
He’s Praying To Himself or some Stylized Version that he see in Himself of Course.
Hadriker
Posted on August 28, 2012 at 7:47amPlease explain how Atheism meets the criteria to be considered a religion. I would think the lack of a belief in a deity would be an issue with your claim.
Report Post »JulesBee
Posted on August 28, 2012 at 10:58am@Hadriker:
According to the Supreme Court, religion need not be based on a belief in the existence of a supreme being. In the 1961 case of Torcaso v. Watkins, the court described “secular humanism” as a religion. Other cases include Reed v. Great Lakes Cos., 330 F.3d 931, 934 (7th Cir. 2003), (Wallace v. Jaffree, 472 U.S. 38 (1985).
Atheism is a religion according to the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
“Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.”
Atheism is a religion according to the Seven Dimensions of Ninian Smart. Anthropologists determine religion by considering these as their standard: narrative, experiential, social, ethical, doctrinal, ritual and material. Not all religions have all the dimensions, but atheism has six of them. For example Narrative: Stories. Most religions have stories to explain creation. Many Atheists believe in the Big Bang Theory of creation.
Atheism is recognized as a religion by the Military. The Defense Department reports that in 2008 those identifying themselves specifically as “Atheist” composed the 18th largest group of 43 possible categories of “self-described religious identification.” They could have chosen non-belief, but chose Atheist under the heading of religion. Groups are advocating Atheist Chaplains.
The above points prove endorsement of the Atheist religion by the government.
Report Post »maranamom10
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:59pmI’m thoroughly offended that THEY get to pray & i don’t!!!! if they get to pray to human kind, than my prayer to God is no more or no less than what they are doing!!! HELLO? fair is fair!!!
Report Post »ALittletotheRight
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:42pmJust to finish my thought. I don’t nor have I ever supported the extreme views of these so called Atheist. I have civil conversations with Christians all the time to explain my view and listen to theirs. The extreme views you here on the news and media, represent the minority view of Atheism, not the majority.
By the way, I am not making these comments to have a debate, just to make a statement.
Report Post »GodHatesFigs
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:55pmBut just by being an atheist and saying you don’t believe in gods or that you can be good without gods is seen as extreme.
Report Post »Kaneakua
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:30pmI am a total Believer and I agree with most of what you are saying. The Word says that judgement should first come to the House of God. The Church is called to judge our self first, and then to judge within the Body those things which offend God and cause harm to the Body of Christ. We are never called to judge people outside of the Church as we don’t know their hearts. Jesus will judge at the end of the age when all the records are complete. Thank you for the needed challenge and exhortation to those who profess Christ on this forum as there are, unfortunately too many very verbal “Pharasees” who dirty the Church in print and drive the would be seekers of the real Jesus away. As for you, I don’t know what happened to turn you away from God and the truth, but it must have been hurtful. I’m sorry for you to have to have gone through that pain. I’ll pray to the Lord I know is real to comfort you and bring you peace in Him again some day. He will never leave you nor forsake you. You are loved my friend.
Report Post »ALittletotheRight
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:37pmYou know, I have been coming on here a long time and have enjoyed being with like minded people very much. However, I need to make a point. I am republican and also atheist. I support my party and always vote for what I think is best for the country.
For all of you religious people claiming to worship God you sure do not live or act like it. It should be your mission to treat everyone with respect and have respect for their beliefs. If you a a true Christian you should look forward to hearing from Atheist and non God-Fearing people alike for it is here where you should testify. A person with a strong conviction and belief in God doesn’t (as much) need to be testified too as they already believe. You should have fellowship with your Christian brothers but you should preach to the unsaved. Jesus didn’t hang around in a church on Sundays.
You listen to the media as the extreme Atheist try to change everything you believe in and then lump us all into one group as if we are this evil empire of destruction. I just happen to believe differently than you. So for that your comments persecute me for my beliefs. If anyone should know about persecution it should be the religious.
You slam people who don’t agree with you and then complain when the other side does the same. My father has been a Pentecostal preacher for 45 years and I studied for years and was a youth pastor at our church. I completely understand where you are coming from but maybe, you should show some compa
Report Post »whiskeybomb
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 5:22pmI agree my friend. However, one of the biggest issues our country faces today is the idea of where our inherent rights come from. So, for religious people this causes great concern when it comes to atheist ideology. I don’t believe most of my religious bretheren have too much animosity towards those without faith out of mere prejudice, but many on the atheist side will not even compromise on the issue of natures law or god (lower case on purpose). I believe this is where most of our conflict lies and I believe if we were to have this debate those of us who believe and those of us who don’t will find much more areas in common and much less in conflict.
Report Post »wtm
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:30pmhope someone sues the council.
Report Post »They will probably have a member of NMBLA speaking on childrens issues next
Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:11pmWho is he going to pray TO? If he just says words of thanks to no one, it isn’t a prayer.
Report Post »jcldwl
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:18pmHe said he is invoking the city council so this guy is worshiping the city council and holding them up as his deity to pray to. What a joke.
Report Post »SacredHonor1776
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:47pmGovernment is god…?
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 3:53pmThat’s right. It’s not a prayer, it’s an invocation. To something real: the council. Not something imaginary, like god, or zeus, or odin. Now if he brings up the Flying Spaghetti Monster, then that’s a prayer.
Report Post »JulesBee
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 7:32pm“Government is god…?”
sacredhonor1776> That’s the impression his purpose relates. That gives me the creeps because isn’t that the essence of communism and/or progressivism?
Report Post »mcsledge
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:07pmIf your not directing your invocation to God, then who are you directing it to? When addressed to God, there is reverance. When addressed to the unknown, it is likely to be an irreverant rant about something.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:05pmwhat crock of crud, an invocation is a prayer to a deity to bless the meeting, not to the people as if THEY are the gods themselves. and this is what it is all about, these atheists are desperate, craving SPECIAL ATTENTION, just like the anti-American sexual degenerates who parade around insisting everyone force their innocent children to become sexual degenerates too, they crave SPECIAL ATTENTION from everyone.
Report Post »MeteoricLimbo
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:04pmPraying Atheists,,, well if you can have jumbo shrimp why not.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:54pmA truly religiously spiritual person prefers to go into a closet and pray, and doesn’t need to be seen praying. A truly spiritual person doesn’t need to go to a house of worship where all can see his religiosity. An Atheist can do away with every house of worship, but they can never take that away, and neither can they understand, and they never will understand unless they be born again.
Report Post »floridareader
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:47pmTo my understanding, “the welfare of all people” comes from God and not from men. Before Moses received the Ten Commandments, humankind was embarked in a mission of self destruction, physically and morally speaking.
Report Post »Then Moses showed them God’s Law: 10 simple rules to honor Him and to follow for the “welfare of all people”. So, for atheists to take credit for that “invocation” is foolish.
watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:59pmNot everyone is the sons and daughters of God, and that’s why John said as much, and he said to those who are ‘we tell ourselves we sin so as to not deceive ourselves.’
Report Post »davecorkery
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:07pmExcept moses receiving the commandments is a legend, no evidence and no original copies. It is now accepted by the jews that it was not moses that received anything, but a number of rabbis who eventually wrote the laws down due to the way the stories changed with every generation. The same thing happened in the new testament to the epistles and gospels: They kept changing and getting wilder until someone wrote down the last version he heard, and it was then taken as inerrant truth. BTW, the last 6 commandments were stolen from the code of Hammurabi, from 1000 years before.
Report Post »You may not know all this, but the kids do. They all fact-check with their newfangled blackberries on the intergoogle. The future looks bright. Darwin’s Theory (fact) says that those that are more rational and make intelligent, fact based correct decisions will eventually replace those that burn incense to the sky gods.
DLV
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 4:30pmDavid Corkery- are you typing over the internet at nothing? Honestly, most people don‘t give a crap what you say unless you sit down to a reasonable debate and you and a lot of other atheists can’t do that. Until you do, everyone will just face palm at this idiotic remarks. I mean we are on a conservative HELLLOOOOOOOOO! Troll alert!
Report Post »JulesBee
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 7:49pmDavidCorkery> It seems you are very certain of your faith. If you truly believe that, then that is all the hope you have. Be sure to hold on to it real tight. What a shame.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:45pmWhen the flood of the Lord is in full swing – there won’t be one rock or even one branch an Atheist can hold onto.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:44pmIf you think Atheists are discontent now – oh you just wait.
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:42pmAtheist wants to give a “prayer”?
Sheesh, all this time I believed them when they said they didn’t believe in religion…no doubt it‘ll be an ode to Mother Earth and Gaybama’s bosom…
Remember that pony-tailed skomsocking wipewad who addressed then president Clinton, saying “…we’re your children”? Yep – he’s an atheist…
Report Post »jackact
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:40pmAre we certain this is not part of the DNC convention opening ceremony?
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:39pmTo bad that he did not go to Bible studies and ask questions he may have turn out differently and continued to love our God. Thank you for helping out the Council.
Report Post »john vincent
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:38pmIts not an uncommon thing- men in Athens were said to ‘pray to an unknown God…,so this fellow his his right to be heard I guess, and others have the same right to ridicule.
I understand Nerren ‘used to be’ a believer, but after reading a book that contradicted his previous ‘truths,’ he converted to atheism. Sounds like he was looking for an ‘out,’ for the good book is the anvil that has withstood all the alleged contradictions and mistakes forged against it; and still stands as the monarch of books.
It is his freedom of speech that allows this platform, and it sounds like it will be met with a warm welcome; then hearty opposition. And you have that same freedom to comment; but in the end, God and his word remains: it is forever settled in heaven.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:38pmAtheists sure are jealous of that which they don’t understand. In truth they can’t stand the contentedness a religious person gets from their religion.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:07pmyou are sorta wrong.. atheists, like gays, only want one thing: the fullblown SPECIAL ATTENTION.
Report Post »vaman
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:36pmThis is totally appropriate. No one particular religion (radical christians) is more important than any other. None of it should be allowed in the public forum, but if all are welcome, go for it.
Report Post »RAN58
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:33pmMakes sense Athiest don’t believe in God. Their faith is in their fellow man, so why not invoke their fellow humanity to do the right thing. Although it seems to me that trusting in our fellow man to do the right thing, hasn’t tended to work out in history, especially in those societies that espouse atheism (EG. Soviet Union, Communist China, etc.).
Report Post »jackact
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:41pmIdiot.
Report Post »Mankind is imperfect.
God is immaculate.
Words_of_the_Buddah
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 2:05pmBut how can god be perfect if he doesn’t exist?
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 27, 2012 at 1:33pmThat’s funny. Everything as Atheist does is about themselves, and not other people, but they sell it with a ‘Humanity’ face.
Report Post »