Orthodox Christians Plunge Into Frigid Waters to Retrieve Crucifixes in Celebration of Jesus’ Baptism
- Posted on January 6, 2012 at 1:35pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Bartholomew I, the spiritual leader of the world's Orthodox Christians, kisses the wooden cross after it was being retrieved by Apostolis Oikomoniv from the water during an Epiphany ceremony to bless the water in the Golden Horn in Istanbul, Turkey, Friday, Jan. 6, 2012. (AP Photo )
ISTANBUL (AP) — Orthodox Christian worshippers plunged into chilly waters across southern and eastern Europe on Friday to retrieve crucifixes in ceremonies commemorating the baptism of Jesus Christ.
Hundreds of members of Istanbul’s tiny Greek Orthodox community and tourists from neighboring Greece attended the Epiphany ceremony of the Blessing of the Waters. About 20 faithful leaped into the wintry waters of the Golden Horn inlet to retrieve a wooden cross thrown by the spiritual leader of the world’s Orthodox Christians, Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew I.
Apostolos Oikonomou, a 40-year-old Greek participating in the swim for the fourth year, clinched the cross.
“This year I was the lucky guy,” he said. “I will come next year again. I wish everybody peace and happy new year.”
Across Bulgaria, young men also jumped into rivers and lakes to recover crucifixes cast by priests in an old ritual marking the feast of Epiphany. Tradition there holds that the person who retrieves a cross will be freed from evil spirits that might have troubled him.
Priests of Bulgaria’s Orthodox Church said prayers for prosperity and blessed the colors of army units, a tradition abandoned by the communist regime in 1946 and re-established in 1992. President Georgi Parvanov greeted the military parade in Sofia, the capital.
In the mountain city of Kalofer, in central Bulgaria, some 200 men in traditional dress waded into the icy Tundzha River with national flags. Inspired by the music of a folk orchestra and by homemade plum brandy, they danced a slow “mazhko horo,” or men’s dance, stomping on the rocky riverbed.
Led by the town’s mayor, a bass drummer and several bagpipers, the men danced for nearly an hour, up to their waists in the cold water, pushing away chunks of ice floating on the river.
In the Romanian village of Petrosani, north of Bucharest, some 1,000 villagers gathered for a traditional blessing of horses to give thanks for the animals who play an important role in sustaining livelihoods.
Believers sing and dance in the river Tundzha, as they celebrate Epiphany day in the town of Kalofer, Bulgaria Friday, Jan. 6, 2012. Traditionally, an Eastern Orthodox priest throws a cross in the river and it is believed that the one who retrieves it will be healthy through the year. Photo: Valentina Petrova / AP
“They drag wood and stones for us, and this is a celebration for them too,” said Catalin Ristea, a 20-year-old agricultural worker, sporting a cowboy hat on his blonde-streaked hair.
Orthodox priests sprinkled more than a dozen horses with holy water, and horses took part in impromptu log-dragging competitions cheered on by villagers. A tiny Shetland was the star of Epiphany as it doggedly pulled a cart weighed down with some 10 locals.
Friday’s celebration was crowned by a horse race. Riders without hats, saddles and stirrups charged across the misty fields cheered on by locals. Villagers ate spicy meatballs cooked on an open grill and washed down with red wine to celebrate the feast day, while children munched swirls of pink candy floss.
In Istanbul, dozens of police officers in riot gear stood guard at the outdoor Epiphany ceremony as a precaution following past protests by nationalists against the Patriarchate, which dates from the Byzantine Empire.
Bartholomew has called for the reopening of a theology school on an island near Istanbul that trained generations of church leaders, including himself, until it was closed by Turkey in 1971 under a law that put religious and military training under state control. The Halki Theological School closed its doors entirely in 1985, when the last five students graduated.
Panagiotis Mantziaris, kisses the wooden cross after being the first to retrieve it, during an Epiphany ceremony to bless the water in Greece's northern port city of Thessaloniki, Friday, Jan. 6, 2012. (AP/Photos Nikolas Giakoumidis)
U.S. Vice President Joe Biden, who met Bartholomew on a visit to Turkey last month, said he hoped Turkey would reopen the seminary.
For years, Turkey has said it is working on a formula that could pave the way for the reopening of the seminary. In August, Turkey‘s government said it was returning hundreds of properties confiscated from the country’s Christian and Jewish minorities over the past 75 years in a gesture to religious groups that say they still face discrimination.
In Kosovo, minority Serbs who live surrounded by Albanians in the enclave of Gracanica rose early Friday in bitterly cold weather and cut down oak trees from nearby woods, gathering branches to adorn the entrance to their houses as tradition dictates.
Kosovo was the ancient seat of the Serbian Orthodox Church, which has hundreds of monasteries and churches in a region dominated by ethnic Albanians. Kosovo seceded from Serbia in 2008, but Belgrade rejects its claim to statehood. Albanians in Kosovo are mostly Muslim.
Greek Orthodox men kiss the wooden cross after it was being retrieved from the water during an Epiphany ceremony to bless the water in the Golden Horn in Istanbul, Turkey, Friday, Jan. 6, 2012. (AP)
Some Orthodox Christian churches, including in Russia, follow a different calendar and mark the holiday on Jan. 19.
Catholics also mark Epiphany as a holy day on Jan. 6. Across Poland, believers celebrated with religious processions, including a large one in Warsaw attended by thousands. The Communists banned Poles celebrating Epiphany and it was only reinstated as a religious holiday in 2011.
Led by Warsaw Archbishop Kazimierz Nycz, people walked through the city center, sometimes singing religious songs, in a procession that featured camels and people dressed up as magi or in medieval-style clothing. Many wore paper crowns, a reference to the three kings who visited Jesus.
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Comments (245)
judyaz
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 5:14pmAn epiphany: What is it like to stand before God? Listen to a man describe what he has just seen.
Report Post »http://soundcloud.com/aka-13/april-20-1970-ray-describes
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 5:25pmNo one is in heaven.
Report Post »John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Acts 2:34, 35 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
If you read the word, the New Jerusalem comes to earth out of heaven and that is where the believers go. It has not happened yet.Research Abraham’s bossom.The souls of the righteous go there and wait judgment.
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 5:31pmWe should not cast our pearls before swine!
Report Post »judyaz
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:27amTo clarify: Jesus answered the learned Biblical scholar, “In truth, in very truth I tell you, unless a man has been born over again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven.” [John 3:3]
Report Post »This man had died and was given a gift by one who had more love in his eyes than anyone he had ever seen. Ray had the choice to remain there or to return to his body.But if he returned, he was asked to give this gift to others in the same love it had been given to him. He chose to return.
what is the gift? I think it is the gift Jesus came to give to all who will receive.
[See John 17: 16-26] In part, Jesus says, “But it is not for these alone that I pray, but for those also who through their words put their faith in me; may they all be one: as thou,Father, art in me,and I in thee,so also may they be in us, that the world may believe that thou didst send me. The glory which thou gavest me I have given to them, that they may be one, as we are one; I in them and thou in me,may they be perfectly one. Then the world will learn that thou didst send me, that thou didst love them as thou didst me.”
This was my reason for sharing the amazement in his voice.
I believe Christ came that we may all receive his gift, as many countless have. But He loves us so much He seeks that all souls know Him and know HIs love for us.
The wisemen sought him – and we appropriately name this day, the Epiphany. What is his gift that he would have us all know before the Messiah comes?
Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:01am@BOMUSTG
Elijah is in Heaven, along with Moses along with all Saints set free from Abraham’s bossom.
2 Kings 2:11
As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and ****Elijah went up to heaven**** in a whirlwind.
Elijah and Moses were also at Christs Transfiguration
You are confusing the terms ASSUMPTION and ASCENSION
ascension is when to enter heaven by your own power .. Only Christ, and Christ alone, has ever ascended in to Heaven.
Assumption is when God brings you in to heaven
HUGE DIFFERENCE
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:58pmSirhan-
What is the real Quran?
-”Hudhaifa was afraid of their differences in the recitation of the Qur’an…Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt” (Hadith, Vol. 6, Book 61, #510).
-If there were so many other copies that were destroyed, then do we have any way of knowing what the real Quran said?
-Contradictions in the Quran
_Can Allah have a son?
Yes: “If Allah desire to take a son to Himself, He will surely choose those He pleases from what He has created. Glory be to Him: He is Allah, the One, the Subduer (of all)” (Quran 39:4). i.
No: “Wonderful Originator of the heavens and the earth! How could He have a son when He has no consort, and He (Himself) created everything, and He is the Knower of all things?” (Quran 6:101).
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:02pmSirhan- the quran has historical problems like:
A)Crucifixion before it was invented!:
-”Pharaoh said: Ye believe in Him before I give you leave! Lo! this is the plot that ye have plotted in the city that ye may drive its people hence. But ye shall come to know! 124 Surely I shall have your hands and feet cut off upon alternate sides. Then I shall crucify you every one” (Quran 7:123-124). Crucifixion wasn’t invented until around 600 B.C., by the Phoenicians! The Egyptians didn‘t crucify anyone because it hadn’t been invented yet. Muhammad didn’t get this right when he made up this verse. This make the quran a lie.
B)Mary is the sister of Aaron and Moses:
Report Post »“Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. 28 O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot” (Quran 19:27-28).
-Mary was not the sister of Aaron. Aaron was Moses’ brother who lived many many hundreds of years before Mary. Muhammad didn’t understand the Bible very well when he made up that verse. This also proves the quran is a book of lies.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:04pmallah is the god of war:
Report Post »A.The Qur’an tells Muslims to kill and go to war to fight for Islam: Surah 2:191; 2:193; 3:118; 4:75,76; 5:33, 8:12; 8:65; 9:5; 9:73,123; 33:60-62.
B.Fight for Allah: “And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers” (Quran 2:191).
C.Muslims are to battle for Allah: “Those who believe do battle for the cause of Allah; and those who disbelieve do battle for the cause of idols. So fight the minions of the devil. Lo! the devil’s strategy is ever weak” (Quran 4:76).
D.Kill those against Islam: “The only reward of those who make war upon Allah and His messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be that they will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. Such will be their degradation in the world, and in the Hereafter” (Quran 5:33).
E.Beheading: “When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger. 13That is because they opposed Allah and His messenger. Whoso opposeth Allah and His messenger, (for him) lo! Allah is severe in punishment” (Quran 8:12).
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:10pmJesus also never said, “I am a prophet,“ or ”I am a man. Do not worship me.” You do not make a doctrine out of what Jesus did NOT say. You make it out of what He DID say. Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
Report Post »B.Jesus also never said, “I am a prophet of Allah.” Yet that is what you claim. There is more than one way to claim to be God in flesh. In fact, Jesus is called God in John 20:28.
C.Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). Compare with Exodus 3:14 where God say, “I AM that I AM.” The Jews wanted to kill Jesus for saying that (John 8:59). They wanted to kill Him because He claimed to be God (John 10:33).
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:14pmsirhan states-“Where does Jesus ever say He isn’t God, and don’t worship Him?”
Heartit states-
A.-JESUS NEVER SAID “I am a prophet,“ or ”I am a man. Do not worship me.” sirhansatan,you do not make a doctrine out of what Jesus did NOT say. You make it out of what He DID say. Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.”
B.-DID JESUS EVER SAY, “I am a prophet of Allah.”? Yet that is what you claim. There is more than one way to claim to be God in flesh. In fact, Jesus is called God in John 20:28.
C.-Jesus said, “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). Compare with Exodus 3:14 where God say, “I AM that I AM.” The Jews wanted to kill Jesus for saying that (John 8:59). They wanted to kill Him because He claimed to be God (John 10:33).
Where is your God now sirhan?
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:17pmsirhan-
Report Post »Would you rather that I treat you the way a Christian is supposed to treat you (with love and patience and kindness), or would you want me to treat you according to the way the Quran tells muslims to treat unbelievers (kill, lie, and destroy)?
Which treatment is better?
:]
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:02pm@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- You don’t know enough about Islam for us to have an intelligent discussion about it. All your’re doing is copying and pasting. You’re not trying to have a dialogue. When you’re let me know.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:19pmDidn’t Muhammad kill many many people? Didn’t Muhammad destroy people and villages? Hmmm… Jesus said, “The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly,” (John 10:10).
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 1:34am@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- “Didn’t Muhammad kill many many people? Didn’t Muhammad destroy people and villages? Hmmm… Jesus said, “The thief comes only to steal, and kill, and destroy; I came that they might have life, and might have it abundantly,” (John 10:10).”
Report Post »****************************************************************************************************
I’m sure you have evidence of this destruction or are you just a puppet repeating what someone told you.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 5:08pmQur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah is worse than slaughter.”
Report Post »Qur’an 33:60 “Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy – a fierce slaughter – murdered, a horrible murdering.”
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:33pm@ BOMUSTGO- “When he was being tempted by Satan (the god of islam) Jesus told him, “Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God and only him shall you serve.”
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James 1:13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
By your own admission, Jesus was a man. according to the book of James, God, cannot be tempted by Satan. Since Jesus was tempted, he is a man.
@ BOMUSTGO- Acts 2:22: Ye men of Israel (O, Jews), hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Unless Peter is lying, and the Holy Spirit which is supposed to be inspiring him, is lying, Peter says Jesus is a MAN!
I want to see from the mouth of Jesus: I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME…you have not posted that because its not in your Bible.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:42pmYou don’t understand the dual nature he had.The Pharisees did not understand either. That’s why they wanted to stone him when he said,”before Abraham was, I am.”They only saw his human side and Jesus was speaking concerning his divinity.As God, he was before Abraham and as man, he was only a little over thirty years old at the time.As man he slept on the boat, as God he calmed the sea.You can see the dual nature as he is called the sacrifice (lamb) and our Great High Priest.As God he is the lion, as Man he is the lamb.Read Isa 9:6. That ought to really confuse you.As God, he is eternal, as man, he is begotten.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:51pmThe thing is, he was tempted and did not give in to temptation.
Hebrews 2:18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:57pmHebrews 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin.
Report Post »josh345
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 9:07pmwhat exactly are you saying….
Jews DO believe that Peter was lying…..just in case you didn’t figure that out. Quite a lot of people lie, so why is Peter lying so unbelievable?
Report Post »maccow
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 4:32amJesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father;
“I and the Father are one.” The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.”
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham [fn]was born, I AM.” Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple.
Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word….
“Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.
who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross…so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 9:27am@ MACCOW- “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word….“Yet to this day the LORD has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.”
*************************
If you are using this scripture to say that this is Jesus claiming to be God, you have misunderstood what Jesus is saying. Jesus is saying the opposite of what you’re claiming: 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God (if Jesus is God, he would have said go ahead and throw your stones because I am God, but he didn’t say that, he said).
34Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods(meaning, we call each other gods all the time. The righteous man is called a god, meaning you are a godly person)? 35If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came (meaning the prophets that came before me were called gods, righteous men), and the scripture cannot be broken; 36Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God (meaning this is a lesser expression than calling a person a god, so why are you trying to find fault with me)? No, the Jews accused Jesus of claiming to be God. Jesus is saying I am not.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 5:20pmFolks, I believe SurhanSurhan to be Muslim. His questions line up with common questions of Muslims to Christians, especially the question about Jesus directly claiming to be God and asking to be worshiped.
Please, let’s continue to be charitable and show the love of Jesus in our responses to his sincere questions.
May the Holy Spirit continue to work in all of our lives.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:11amsirhansatan- What is the penalty for apostacy in your country?
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:11am@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- “sirhansatan- What is the penalty for apostacy in your country?”
********************************************
I keep telling you you don‘t know anything about me or where I’m from. The penalty in Islam for apostasy is death.
What is the penalty for treason in America? Death! That’s the same penalty in Islam. If a Muslim wants to leave his religion and convert to another he/she is free to do so. If they commit apostasy/treason the penalty is death just like in America. If an American citizen wants to leave American and become a citizen of another country they can, but if they take up arms against America the penalty is death.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:25amsirhan-
WHERE DOES GOD THE FATHER SAY “I AM ALLAH” OR “ALLAH IS GOD” IN THE BIBLE? PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PROVE GOD IS ALLAH WITH YOUR BIBLE QUOTES……
THE ONLY REFERENCE TO ALLAH IN THE BIBLE IS REVELATIONS 13!
ATTENTION BLAZERS! ………………..THE SYMBOL BELOW IS THE EXACT TRANSLATION OF THE ENGLISH ‘666’ SYMBOL IN REVELATIONS 13:18!
الله
IS THE ARABIC SYMBOL FOR (wait for it) allah!
The Codex Vaticanus written PRIOR to the birth of muhammad that reads Revelations 13:18: “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man; and his number is الله
there’s your PROOF sirhansatan!
One more time here….
Am I right in concluding that the issue with you is not whether or not the Bible is true; rather, isn’t it that you desire a reason to deny its truth?
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:46amsirhan-The last death penalty for treason in the United States was:Martin James Monti, United States Army Air Force pilot, convicted of treason for defecting to the Waffen SS in 1944. He WAS NOT convicted of apostacy…..
apos·ta·sy
noun \ə-ˈpäs-tə-sē\
pluralapos·ta·sies
Definition of APOSTASY
1: renunciation of a religious faith
2: abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
Sirhan states: “The penalty in Islam for apostasy is death. ”
Is Islam a country or a faith? if the penalty for apostacy in Islam is death as you say, then you agree that those who renounce the Islamic faith are subject to a death penaly in your own words! correct?
You asked me a while back “what would it take to convince you?” The answer is and always will be – nothing you can do would convince me to denounce my faith.
Once again:
WHERE DOES GOD THE FATHER SAY “I AM ALLAH” OR “ALLAH IS GOD” IN THE BIBLE? PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PROVE GOD IS ALLAH WITH YOUR BIBLE QUOTES……
THE ONLY REFERENCE TO ALLAH IN THE BIBLE IS REVELATIONS 13!
ATTENTION BLAZERS! ………………..THE SYMBOL BELOW IS THE EXACT TRANSLATION OF THE ENGLISH ‘666’ SYMBOL IN REVELATIONS 13:18!
الله
IS THE ARABIC SYMBOL FOR (wait for it) allah!
The Codex Vaticanus written PRIOR to the birth of muhammad that reads Revelations 13:18: “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man; and his number
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:48amcont….THE ENGLISH ‘666’ SYMBOL IN REVELATIONS 13:18!
الله
IS THE ARABIC SYMBOL FOR (wait for it) allah!
The Codex Vaticanus written PRIOR to the birth of muhammad that reads Revelations 13:18: “Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the multitude of the beast: for it is the multitude of a man; and his number is الله
there’s your PROOF sirhansatan!
One more time here….
Am I right in concluding that the issue with you is not whether or not the Bible is true; rather, isn’t it that you desire a reason to deny its truth?
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:15pmsirhansatan states-”I don’t know what you mean by true. ”
enough said! :]
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:37pmsirhan-
So I am right in concluding that you do not believe the Bible is the true word of God.So, does this compel you to deny its truth? Then why do you quote the Bible so much?
2 John 1:7-For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
John 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
-1 John 2:18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.
-1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
-1 John 2:22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist–he denies the Father and the Son.
-1 John 2:26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray.
The Bible is the true Word of God and all those that deny this fact are not in the book of life, including you sirhan! Not my words, This is what the Bible tells us……..
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:53pmSirhan, you state the Bible is not the word of God….
-(Quran, 3:3)”… and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus)…”
-(Quran, 6:34)”…there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah…” .
– sirhan you claim Allah’s words were changed by saying the Gospels are corrupt? That means you do not believe the Quran either! You state that God’s word is never changed, but the Bible is changed. You say it USED TO BE completely true, but now it has truth combined with error. If that is so, then why do you quote it when it is convenient for you sirhan?
Sirhansatan you say the Bible is valid when it agrees with the Quran but they will say it is wrong when it contradicts the Quran. BLASPHEME!
Sirhansatan, You dont believe what Jesus said about Himself. You say the Bible is corrupt, but who corrupted it and when was it corrupted? If you don’t know, then don’t say it.
Report Post »-
Why do you continue to repeat the same old stuff that has already been answered so many times? Are you not interested in the truth? Or, are you just interested in repeating the same old errors?
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:16pm@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- “apos·ta·sy noun \ə-ˈpäs-tə-sē\ pluralapos·ta·sies Definition of APOSTASY 1: renunciation of a religious faith 2: abandonment of a previous loyalty : defection
Report Post »**************************
Apostasy is not just leaving the religion. It is to tell lies about the religion after you are no longer a member of the religion. Just like treason in America.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:17pmsirhan-I have had 4 years of studying Greek in college and graduate school. You are a deciever and have once again avoiided any logical debate…. as usual. If your idology is so correct I would once again ask you to find one supporter on the blaze.
Why would I want to discuss the Bible whith you when you dont belive it is the word of God the Father and only use cut and paste, taken out of context verses, yet deny that the Bible is the truth. Your heart is wicked and you cant help it. Your cult leader pagan muhamood is burning in the lake of fire and you will also, I WONT see you there… I know all I need to about the great deciever and choose not to take the side of allah but side only with God the Father… :]
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 5:17pmwhat a scholar your are sirhan! I understand you have been taught from the quran and therefore cannot accept the fact that JESUS / HA’MASHIA is divine. To you, that is shirk, blasphemy of the worst kind. But believing it doesn’t make it so sirhan. To us Christians, and according to the Bible, HA’MASHIA is the one who alone saves us from our sins. We cannot earn our way to heaven, perform enough good works to please GOD / YHWH, or ever be “sincere enough” in repentance to somehow obtain forgiveness from YHWH. Instead, Christianity is a faith in YHWH’s great love and sacrifice for His creation. HA’MASHIA, the Son of YHWH, is the divine one who fulfilled prophecies, walked on water, healed the sick, and rose from the dead. Only the Son of YHWH can do these things. If you dont believe this you are antichristian. Like I keep saying. You havnt converted any blazers yet, but Im sure you will keep trying. :]
Report Post »robh
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:06amYou cannot drink steam (just as God cannot be tempted) nor ice although they are literally H20. Water (H20), though, can be drunk (as Jesus can be tempted) although both H20.
Try to wrap you head around the Trinity in the same way. Jesus is God personified just as ice is H20 frozen, and steam H2O vaporized.
Believe that there are true mysteries of God we won’t understand but we really should be able to grasp this.
It’s really not so far-fetched whereas some common beliefs in islam might be considered equally impossible, yet they are accepted without question by muslims. Such as Muhammad’s one night journey from the Grand Mosque in Mecca to al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem or other “miracle” in quran.
Just as the quran states
(4:78) “…. If some good befalls them, they say “This is from Allah”. But if evil, they say “This is from thee” (O prophet). Say: “All things are from Allah…..”*
(4:79) “Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself”
So, which is it?
Do good and evil (and all things) come from Allah (4:78) or does good come from Allah and evil from “thyself” (4:79)?
Both cannot be true.
And don’t give me the standard, “It must be read in Arabic and understood in the complete context of the quran” line.
Hackneyed and feeble defense.
I can say just as absurdly that the Holy Bible cannot be understood by those who speak Arabic!
And the same would apply
Report Post »robh
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:24amJohn 10:30
I and my Father are one.
John 8:57-58
57 Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
Luke 5:20-21
Report Post »20 And when he saw their faith, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee.
21 And the scribes and the Pharisees began to reason, saying, Who is this which speaketh blasphemies? Who can forgive sins, but God alone?
judyaz
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:28pmEpiphany, the 12th day after Christmas, celebrates the visit of the three wise men to the Christ Child. It is known as Three Kings’ Day in the United States. It falls on Friday, January 6, and is celebrated in most countries this Sunday, January 8, 2012.
Report Post »People look upward to the heavens to see his star.
Let us look upward and within our hearts to see it too.
Spiritual messengers of God have come to prepare a way for the the coming of the Messiah in this time. They spoke these words September 28, 1979: http://www.angelfire.com/in4/aup_messiah/1979September28.audio.html
They do not come to one faith or religion, but come to all who will open their hearts and receive him in. The Epiphany!
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:44pmYeshua was born in the Fall during the Feast of tabernacles.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:37pmGod did not want the Israelites to worship graven images or make idols out of anything. Moses made a bronze serpent and held it up on a branch and it brought healing to the Jews in the wilderness. Later, they began to worship this object after Moses was dead. One of the prophets had to destroy it as God does not want any images or idols to be revered.The Apostles did not allow this either.
Report Post »josh345
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 9:09pmWhich book says this? I haven’t heard of it….
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 6:11pmIn Numbers 21:9, the brazen serpent is created by Moses and put on a pole to heal the people.2 kings 18:4, king Hezekiah has it destroyed as people began to burn incense to it.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:20amI guess God broke his own rules (on creating images – worshiping images are different)
Read up on King Solomon;s Temple ( The Temple that Christ Worshiped in) (1 Kings 6)
The Jewish Temple was built per Gods Specs and includes:
– 6:23 For the inner sanctuary he made a pair of cherubim out of olive wood, each ten cubits high
– 28 He overlaid the cherubim with gold
– 29 On the walls all around the temple, in both the inner and outer rooms, he carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers
– 35 He carved cherubim, palm trees and open flowers on them and overlaid them with gold hammered evenly over the carvings
Note..NONE of these cravings were worshiped but they were included in the Temple that Christ worshiped in to bring the heart to heaven
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 1:20pmSince God has no flesh and blood, and who cannot die, he prepared himself a body as the scripture say he is the “Son” according to the flesh. The flesh that God dwelt in could die (And be resurrected being the first fruits of the resurrection. He arose on the Jewish Feast of first fruits fulfilling that particular festival as he fulfilled Passover by being crucified as the Lamb of God, which lead to him fulfilling the Feast of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2.) The Bible states that God was manifest in flesh. God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself. Jesus is the express image of the invisible God. He is called Immanuel in Hebrew, which means “with us, GOD” (God with us in KJV.Since the word “EL” meaning God is at the end of the word it should be rendered “with us God” either way, we get the picture.) Being the ONE GOD in flesh he is to be worshipped.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 1:51pmThat’s better.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 2:59pm@ BOMUSTGO- Where is the quote from Jesus saying “I am God or ”Worship me”. You’re giving us what people said about Jesus. We want to know what Jesus says about himself.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:13pmWhen he was being tempted by Satan (the god of islam) Jesus told him, “Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God and only him shall you serve.”..One way or another if you like it or not, every knee shall bow and tongue shall confess that he is LORD. (LORD means YHWY.).I would start practicing now if I were you.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:16pmMatt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 – Jesus tells satan, “you shall not tempt the Lord your God” in reference to Himself.
Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 – Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, “You heard it said…but I say to you..”
Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 – not everyone who says to Jesus, “Lord, Lord.” Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.
Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 – Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.
Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 – Jesus says that He is “Lord of the Sabbath.” He is the Lord of God’s law which means He is God.
Matt. 18:20 – Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.
Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 – Jesus calls himself “Lord.“ ”The Lord has need of them.”
Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 – Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.
Matt. 28:20 – Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.
Mark 14:36 – Jesus calls God “Abba,” Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus’ unique intimacy with the Father.
Luke 8:39 – Luke reports that Jesus said “tell how much God has done for you.” And the man declared how much Jesus did.
Luke 17:18 – Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:20pmBomustgo – you are absolutely right.
And there are many, many other examples in the NT.
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_christ_divinity.html
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:29pmThanks savedbythe lamb..We agree on something.. Another good one is when Thomas saw Jesus after the resurrection, he said,”My Lord and my God.”
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:17pm@ BOMUSTGO- “When he was being tempted by Satan (the god of islam) Jesus told him, “Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God and only him shall you serve.”
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James 1:13: Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
By your own admission, Jesus was a man. according to James, God, cannot be tempted by Satan. Since Jesus was tempted, he is a man.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:27pm@ BOMUSTGO- Acts 2:22: Ye men of Israel (O, Jews), hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a MAN approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which GOD did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Unless Peter is lying, and the Holy Spirit which is supposed to be inspiring him, is lying, Peter says Jesus is a MAN!
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 4:37pm@ SAVEDBYTHELAMB- Show us where Jesus said unequivocally and unambiguously…I AM GOD or WORSHIP ME.
Report Post »robh
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 3:19amJohn 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
C.S. Lewis explains:
“He says … ‘I am begotten of the One God, before Abraham was, I am,‘ and remember what the words ’I am’ were in Hebrew. They were the name of God, which must not be spoken by any human being, the name which it was death to utter.”
Some may argue that this was an isolated instance. But Jesus also used “I AM” for himself on several other occasions. Let’s look at some of these, trying to imagine our reactions upon hearing Jesus’ radical claims:
•“I am the light of the world” (John 8:12)
•“I am the way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6)
•“I am the only way to the Father” (John 14:6)
•“I am the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25)
•“I am the Good Shepherd” (John 10:11)
•“I am the door” (John 10:9)
•“I am the living bread” (John 6:51)
•“I am the true vine” (John 15:1)
•“I am the Alpha and Omega” (Rev.1:7,8)
http://y-jesus.com/jesus_believe_god_2.php
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:05pmWell summarized. There is no doubt that Jesus is Divine.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 1:00pmsurhansurhan…@ BOMUSTGO “Jesus/Yeshua is the ONE GOD manifest in flesh.The scripture even says that this is without controversy.”
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Show us a scripture where Jesus said “I am God” or where Jesus said “worship me.” Show us where God and Jesus shared the same attributes.
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Report Post »Revelation 1:8 .Jesus states that he is the Alpha and Omega and the Almighty.The name Yeshua means Yah (YHWH) is salvation.Isa 9:6 the son will be called the mighty God, everlasting Father…also he is called Immanuel meaning God with us. He is GOD manifest in the flesh.
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 1:10pmIf the Apostles were here today and sat thru a catholic service, seen all the rituals, graven images and people kneeling before them, they would be so confused.This is not anything like they taught.I sat thru many a catholic service as a youth and it was dead.Now I go where God inhabits the praise of his people and is not bound by man-made rituals that have no salvational value whatsoever.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 2:44pm@ BOMUSTGO- “Show us a scripture where Jesus said “I am God” or where Jesus said “worship me.” Show us where God and Jesus shared the same attributes.”
“Revelation 1:8 .Jesus states that he is the Alpha and Omega and the Almighty.”
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The Book of Revelation was written by a man named John (possibly John the Apostle) toward the end of his life. John records a vision he experiences, probably while dreaming or meditating.
Where is the verse from Jesus where he says “I am God” or where he says “Worship me”? I put those words in quotation marks because I’m looking for those words, not what someone else thinks or what a scripture aught to have meant.
Show me a scripture where God and Jesus shared the same attributes.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 10:31amAnd yet more heresy..The teaching that the Mass actually turns the wafer and the wine into
Report Post »the body and blood of Christ is heresy.
Confessing sins to a Priest and asking him to forgive you is
contrary to the scriptures.1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he
is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us
from all unrighteousness.
The teaching of purgatory is unbiblical.
The Pope is the “Vicar of Christ” (meaning; Christ on Earth) is a man-made teaching.
Praying the Rosary is not Biblical.
Praying to Saints is unfounded in the scripture.(True believers are the Saints according to the Bible.)
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 12:26pmI am sure what you are repeating what your denomination teaches. It is gravely wrong.
There is a great article on Wikipedia about the origin of the concept of the “Vicar of Christ.” It originates from the 1st Century.
The Rosary is entirely intended to be reflective of the Gospels. The original Rosary said by the Monks actually focused on the 150 Psalms. The Dominican Rosary (5 Decades) focuses on 20 Mysteries (revelations) of God, which are reflected upon between the decades.
Two of the prayers you may be interested in:
Oh My Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of your Mercy. (prayer given to us by Our Lady at Fatima)
and
Oh God whose only begotten Son through His life, death, and resurrection has purchased for us the rewards of eternal life. Grant we beseech thee that while meditating upon these mysteries of the Holy Rosary of the Blessed Virgin Mary that we may imitate what they contain and obtain what they promise, through the Same Christ Our Lord.
I say at least 5 decades of the Rosary daily, in addition to praying The Divine office (http://divineoffice.org).
The rest of which you poo poo is very well founded in written and oral tradition. I encourage you to research further rather than regurgitating falsehoods.
Come Holy Spirit, enkindle in us the fire of your love.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 12:51pmI will stick to the scripture and the original teachings.Years of tradition and man-made theology don’t make things right.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 12:54pm@ BOMUSTGO- You don‘t have a clue about what you’re talking. The oldest version of the Protestant Bible is the KJV, this Bible was published in 1611. It has 66 books and 40 different authors.
The oldest version of the Catholic Bible is the Douay-Rheims Bible, this Bible was published in 1588. It has 73 books (7 more than the protestant bible) and 44 (4 more than the protestant) different authors.
Here is what Christian Bible scholars have to say about the KJV Bible: “The King James Version has with good reason been termed the noblest monument of English prose. Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration for its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of expression … the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm. It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.”
(Here’s the shocker): “By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it evident that its (KJV Bible) defects were so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.”
The task was undertaken, by 32 scholars of the highest eminence, backed 50 different denominations of Christiendom.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:37pmBomustgo,
I think you’re going to find that the Catholic Church is steeped in the “original teachings” if you take into account the entire context of tradition, not just what is written in the Bible. I would encourage you to read the writings of the Church Fathers. In particular the Didache written in the 1st Century describes many of the traditions still in practice today (i.e. baptism). Also, the writings of St. Justin Martyr describes the early “Mass” celebrated within one generation of the Apostles. One of the Eucharistic prayers for Mass originates from this era.
Keep in mind that Jesus fulfilled Judaism. Catholicism manifests that in its tradition, especially its liturgy. The Apostles would probably recognize a lot of the Jewish practices in the Mass. It is an unbroken continuum of tradition.
Through Adam, God established a covenant with a man and his wife.
Through Noah, God extended the covenant to cover a family.
Through Abraham, he extended it to cover a tribe.
Through Moses, he extended it to cover a nation.
Through King David, he extended it to cover a kingdom.
Through Jesus Christ, he extended it to cover the world.
Everyone is a child of God now, if they accept Christ. On the same notion, if they reject Christ they also reject all the covenants he fulfilled.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 3:51pmThe history of the Catholic Bible goes back to the beginning. The entire canon of books wasn’t determined until the Council of Rome in 382 when Pope Damasus asked the Council to decide. St. Jerome compiled the Latin Vulgate in the 4th Century which became the basis for the D-R bible you mention.
http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/timeline_of_how_the_bible_where.htm
The old testament of the Catholic bible is based on the Septuagint, the Greek Translation of the Hebrew Canon in the 1st Century. Martin Luther decided to remove the 7 books and attempted to remove James, Revelation and a couple of others.
Two thirds of the references to the old testament in the new testament are from the deutero-canonical books removed by Luther. The book of Maccabees in particular is fascinating as it describes the period of history right before Jesus’ arrival. It also has some foundational scripture for Catholic teaching on Mary.
I repeat – 2/3 of the references to the OT in the NT are in those books protestants do not have.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:30amsirhan cant “hear” you saved. His idiology is as follows:
hitler is a christian
Jesus is a muslim
Jesus was not crucified
He doesnt believe in the Covenant because its not mentioned in the qooran
The penalty for apotsacy in Muslim countries is death, sirhansatan cant change his mind because he fears death and unfortunatly he will most likely burn in the lake of fire just like his cult leader muhamood for not being in the book of life.
For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son…….
sirhansatan, please refrain from using your left hand while typin k? Oh and make sure you scrape your sandals the next time you come in, thanks.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:41amPsalm was written about 1000 years before Christ was born. In fact, that Psalm begins with the verse “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” which is what Jesus quoted on the cross. The point is this. The Bible contains prophecy, detailed prophecy about Christ, that has come true. No other book has this.
Report Post »robh
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 3:31amhttp://www.ncccusa.org/newbtu/aboutrsv.html
The bias of the quoted text is from a source that is attempting to substantiate the authoritativeness of the RSV and the NRSV and their “improvements” of this revision over the KJV.
Citing sources is appreciated so as not to obfuscate the context and allow for complete and objective analysis and judgement of the source.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 10:29amMore catholic heresy… The teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin and without original sin is in direct contradiction to the scriptures. Matthew 1:25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.(The word “knew” means to know someone in a sexual way.) She had other sons and daughters that were not miraculously conceived as Christ was. Galations 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother.
Report Post »Matthew 13:55,56 Is not this the carpenter’s son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things? She had to offer up a sin offering after the birth of Christ. Luke 2:22-24 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)
And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.
Leviticus 12:6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 11:55amIt is easy to be confused by individual citations from the Bible that aren’t interpreted in context, and which aren’t considered within the whole of The Magisterium. Jesus left us the teaching authority of the church to prevent this confusion, which leads to division.
The teaching of Mary’s perpetual virginity is based on both the Bible and Sacred Tradition. The basis of this is based on several factors including an understanding that Mary is the spouse of the Holy Spirit, who “overshadowed” her at Jesus’ conception. This is a Jewish euphamism which Mary and Joseph would have understood. And very appropriate as the Ark of The New Covenant.
Jesus did not have brothers and sisters. Look at the Greek word adelphos. In Koine Greek, this is not a word exclusively used to mean 1st Degree Brother. It is used many times in the NT to mean cousin, countryman, and those who share the faith. Not definitive evidence of anything, like the word Baptizo.
Mary was a devout Jew. According to Mosaic law she was unclean for seven days, and needed to remain “in the brood of her purification” for 33 days. She was required to present the sacrifice at the temple for purification. So forty days after Christs’ birth, she redeemed her first born from the temple (Numbers 18:15). Again, this is not evidence she was with sin, only that she complied with the Law just like Jesus did.
Go here for more: http://www.angelfire.com/ok3/apologia/virginmary.html
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 11:33pmSorry, laundry soap news bulletin was a false rumor – but, I did not want to take a chance that some one would get hurt.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 9:20amThank you. Love your account name .. Its a great journey,
I always thought that one of the most profound questions asked from the lips of man was from Pontius Pilate when he ask ” WHAT IS TRUTH?”
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 11:38amDid you know that in a book about Dr. David Livingston , it was said, that he memorized the 119 Psalm – amazing – when the loving Dr. was found, dead, he was at his bedside knelled in prayer. Yes, as the Good Psalm says we are all on an approach towards God – just on a different “Step.“ May your next ” Step,” be your finest.
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 11:15pmThe Son of God, Jesus Christ, died a horrible death for our sins on His cross. OUR sins. After 3 days, he arose from the dead. He conquered death for us, so that we may have everlasting life with Him in Heaven, engulfed in God’s pure love & joy. Hope. There is hope for an unquestioning & almighty love for us. The simple question is, do you accept the truth or mock the truth? I see, in the faces of these men, the joy they have in understanding this truth. Rejoice in the Lord! Look at the gift we have waiting for us, one & all. Reach for it. The gift is real.
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 10:56am@ DONTBOTHERME- “The Son of God, Jesus Christ, died a horrible death for our sins on His cross.
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Crucify means to die on the cross, by nailing or impaling to the cross. If Jesus was crucified (meaning died on the cross) at what point did he die?
Who examined the body of Jesus to see if he was dead?
Did anyone check Jesus’ pulse?
Did anyone check to see if Jesus was still breathing?
Did anyone check to see if Jesus’ heart had stopped beating?
Did Rigor Mortis or Lividity of Jesus’ body take place?
Determining The Time of Death
When the heart stops beating, gravity pulls blood to the lowest point in the body. Blood pooling in those low areas stain the surrounding tissue giving the appearance of bruising. This staining of tissue is called livor mortis, or lividity. For example, a victim lying flat on his back when he dies exhibits lividity on his back, buttocks, and the back of his legs. The same is true on the front of the body, if the victim is found lying face down.
John 19:34: 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
Meaning Jesus was still ALIVE. So, in conclusion, no crucifixion of Jesus took place, This crucifixion of Jesus is a hoax, it is more of a crucifiction (meaning fiction, not fact) not a crucifixion. It was a cruciFICTION. (Hoax)
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SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 11:04am@ DONTBOTHERME- “After 3 days, he arose from the dead. ”
Report Post »**************************************************************************
When the Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign of his true mission Jesus answered: Matthew 12:40: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Disregard the time factor; which was not three days and three nights but one day (Saturday, daytime only) and two nights (Friday night and Saturday night). Was Jonas alive in the belly of the whale? Yes. Was Jonas still alive when he was vomited out of the belly of the whale? Yes. Then Jesus was still alive as he prophesied.
frank
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 9:59pmHuckabee, your name sucks.
Report Post »Unshod
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 9:00pmCool article but some of you guys need to lighten up a bit. It’s a metaphor for baptism – going into the water looking for Jesus, we are physical beings living in a physical world and I think God would be cool with it. It sure looks like a blast.
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5XbTap7Ors&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=fsQlZdWS6MQ&feature=endscreen
Kaoscontrol
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:26pmCan Christians wear Speedos and still be saved? just asking…
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 1:35pmI ca’t help but to laugh when I see them kissing the cross.Imagine if it were made out of chocolate while looking at the photos.
Report Post »ENTP
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:51pmWhy is everyone arguing over something so stupid & pagan, if Christ were here would he be kissing a cross or patting these guys on the back????? I think not since they are kissing an idol, etc this Glorifies the Father, how? How does the father even feel about the “cross”? If someone stabbed your child, would you want people to worship an idol made to look like a knife? Would you want everyone wearing a little knife as a necklace? Come on, common sense people, for real! They have eyes but they don’t see, they have ears but they don’t hear! Like I said, why the arguing? It’s so silly, in the scheme of things coming I would just suggest if you are a Christian, read the bible daily.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:08pmYou know God doesn’t live in time and space. Christ at this moment 2,000+ years ago is hanging on the cross suffering for our sins.
The cross is an important moment in redemption history.
What do we do each day to console Jesus? Or do we add to His suffering?
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:16pmThe cross is also the symbol for Tammuz.An acient pagan deity.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:26pmI can’t believe you said that. I am seriously concerned about you.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 9:14am@BOMUSTGO
“The cross is also the symbol for Tammuz.An acient pagan deity.”
You are way too legalistic.. It is not the form factor of the Symbol that is important, it is what is in your heart.
There is no greater symbol of LOVE than the CROSS .. It is the conversion story. It was a symbol and pain and death… converted through the action of Christ to be a Symbol if GREAT LOVE,..
I always ask myself who would I go to the Cross for? My wife, my children?…Christ went to the Cross not just for his friends and family but for those who mocked, spat upon and betrayed him so that they may have the opportunity of heaven. How much LOVE does that take?
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:41pmMatthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Report Post »BoatFix
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 11:58amBut none of these are commandments. Not one of them.
Report Post »Traditions, yes. Acts of appreciation, yes.
No commandments
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 2:45pmWhat about the “doctrine” part? The RCC teaches a lot of false doctrine that contradicts the scriptures.
Report Post »LOJ
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:41pmNow this is Love for the Christ and the Cross! I would have done the same!
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:20pmLets see what doctrine has been corrupted ?
The Churches that were started by the Apostles are still in existence today and share the same faith and practices even though 2000 years has passed.
Who started these churches?
Roman church = St. Peter and Paul
Coptic Church = St. Mark
Armenian Orthodox = St. Thaddaeus (one of the 72 – Like 10:1)
Greek orthodox = St. Paul
Orthodox Church of Antioch / Melkite Catholic = St Peter and Paul
Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church = Philip the Evangelist (Acts, 8:27)
One of the most interesting example is the St. Thomas Christians of India, who were cut off and “lost” from other Christians until the Portuguese rediscovered them in the 16th Century
So what do these different churches that all have a different language and culture share in their faith?
Church Hierarchy ( Bishop, Priest, Deacon)
Sacrament of Confession (John 20:23)
Sacrament of Anointing the Sick (James 5:14 )
Sacrament of baptism (Matthew 28:19)
Sacrament of Holy Orders
Sacrament of Confirmation (Acts 8:17)
Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist (John 6:54-55)
Sacrament of Matrimony (Crowning)
Apostolic Succession
Oral + written Tradition (as do the Jews)
Liturgical worship with
-Veneration
- Relics
- Incense
- Bowing, Genuflecting , prostrating and other forms of reverence
- Holy water
- Churches with ICONS (east), statues (west)
I can go on and on.. .. Now whose Church is less than 500 years old at best?
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:27pmWhere does it say the Apostles ever sprinkled people and called it baptism?? Sprinkling is an entirely different Greek word.That is a corruption from their teaching. Also, they never Baptized into the titles Father, Son, and Holy Ghost..Historians will tell you they used the name (Singular) of Jesus.Power is in the name by faith in the name.
Report Post »Beowulf_Agate
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:44pmCoptic Church was establish around AD 451….
Report Post »The Roman Catholic Church was created within the Roman Empire during the 4th century…..
Armenian Orthodox was established in 301 AD….
I could go on and on but all these churches have NOTHING to do with the The Messiah of the Israelite nation.
SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:50pmCatholics usually baptize through infusion (pouring), although it can be done through sprinkling and immersion. The Greek word Baptizo can mean immersion or “washing up,“ and is used elsewhere in the Bible to mean ”ritual washing.” See Luke 11:38 and Ezekiel 36:35. Nobody was immersing before dinner. There are other examples. This certainly shows there is no set translation for this word.
Catholics baptize as Jesus described it in Matthew 28 and the other verses, and as in the other verses. Not sure why only one verse Acts 2:38 would take precedent over the entirety of scripture.
There is biblical basis for what we believe – it is definitely not corrupt. You simply disagree with the Catholic interpretation and tradition in this matter. I guess this has a lot to do with a lack of a central teaching authority (i.e. The Magisterium). We’ve discussed this thoroughly elsewhere.
Let us keep forging ahead in our journey to Heaven!
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:58pm@BOMUSTGO
Eastern Churches baptize with full submersion and follow Christs word to the letter Mathew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
That is the difference between your church and mine.. My is the unbroken True church from St. Paul.. Yours is a 200 year old heresy
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:05pmBelonging to some man-made institution does not put you into the Church.Being born again of the water and of the Spirit does.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 1:12-13 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
What did Peter preach? Acts 2:38-39 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Report Post »39. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Peter taught how to be born again of the water and Spirit. If he was the first Pope (and he was not). Why does not Rome teach his same message? They teach a counterfeit message… I repented of my sins and was baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost (Yes I still speak in tongues) back in 1982.
Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 8:58amOne quick History lesson from St. IGNATIUS OF ANTIOCH (2nd Bishop of Antioch after St. Peter)
In a letter the the Smyrnaeans written between 98 and 117 A.D… Yes the Church continued to support each other via epistle after the death of the apostles.
On the Holy Eucharist:
“They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer, because they confess not the Eucharist to be the flesh of our Saviour Jesus Christ, which suffered for our sins, and which the Father, of His goodness, raised up again”
On the CATHOLIC CHURCH and obedience” ( Yes the Church was known as Catholic even back then, complete with Bishops, Priests and Deacons)
“See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church “
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 10:14amsavedbythelamb wrote..Catholics baptize as Jesus described it in Matthew 28 and the other verses, and as in the other verses. Not sure why only one verse Acts 2:38 would take precedent over the entirety of scripture
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There is more than just Acts 2:38 to back up how the early congregation baptized in “Jesus name ” and not the three titles.Try Acts 8:16,10:48, 19;5, 22:16,Romans 6:3-4, Galations 3:27.Search the scriptures…Also, they were baptizing in the NAME (singular) before Matt 28:19 was written.
Fred Coneybeare, a noted Scholar of the 19th century went to prove the invalidity of Matthew 28:19. Believing that Eusebius of Caesarea had access to the greatest Christian Library of the fourth century, he researched Eusebius’ work and found eighteen (18) instances of Eusebius citing Matthew 28:19 as follows:
“ Go ye and make disciples of all the nations , baptizing them
in my name, teaching them to observe all things, whatsoever I
commanded you.”
The commentary of Eusebius on this scripture said that “in my name,” meant the name of Jesus. Thus Coneybeare felt that Eusebius knew nothing of any other form of Matthew 28:19 until he attended the Council of Nicea (325 A.D.) then, in old age, says Coneybeare, Eusebius used the trinitarian Matthew 28:19 after Nicea.
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:19pmThere is no such thing as Christ crucified. Jesus’ death on the cross is a crucifiction not a crucifixion.
Report Post »HumbleMan
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 9:55pmNice. Are you here to throw stones?
Report Post »dontbotherme
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 10:57pmSurhan – How does it feel to deny God? I can’t imagine the intolerance one would have for the truth of our Creator, your Creator. You must think… what or who do you believe in? God loves all of His children, you included. He’s calling your name. Will you answer or walk away?
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 11:24pm@ HUMBLEMAN “Nice. Are you here to throw stones?”
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Do you have proof?
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 11:34pm@ DONTBOTHERME- “Surhan – How does it feel to deny God? I can’t imagine the intolerance one would have for the truth of our Creator, your Creator. You must think… what or who do you believe in? God loves all of His children, you included. He’s calling your name. Will you answer or walk away?”
Report Post »*********************************************************************************************************************
I’m denying that Jesus was crucified, not the birth of Jesus. Jesus is not God. God is God and Jesus is Jesus. There is no evidence from the Bible or any book, for that matter, that God and Jesus are one and the same.
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 10:18amJesus/Yeshua is the ONE GOD manifest in flesh.The scripture even says that this is without controvercy..
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 11:19am@ BOMUSTGO “Jesus/Yeshua is the ONE GOD manifest in flesh.The scripture even says that this is without controversy.”
Report Post »**********************************************************************************************************************
Show us a scripture where Jesus said “I am God” or where Jesus said “worship me.” Show us where God and Jesus shared the same attributes.
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 8, 2012 at 8:51pm@ LITTLEQUEENIE- “Jesus performs miracles over and over again. Just by touching his garments one could be healed.”
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Elijah performed miracles: 1 Kings 17:22: And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.
So did Elisha: 2 Kings 4:34: And he (Elisha) went up, and lay upon the child, and put his mouth upon his mouth, and his eyes upon his eyes, and his hands upon his hands: and stretched himself upon the child; and the flesh of the child waxed warm.
Even the dead bones of Elisha could restore a body to life by touching only: 2 Kings 13:21: And it came to pass, as they were burying a man, that, behold, they spied a band of men; and they cast the man into the sepulchre of Elisha: and when the man was let down, and touched the bones of Elisha, he revived, and stood up on his feet.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:40amWhat is the penalty for apostacy in your country sirhan?
Hey guys, this loon sirhan satan just keeps pastin the same deceptions to get us riled up. Just like the good rep of the antichrist that he is. Many of us have told him the truth, yet he doesnt understand.sirhan cant “hear” you!
His idiology is as follows:
hitler is a christian
Jesus is a muslim
Jesus was not crucified
He doesnt believe in the Covenant because its not mentioned in the qooran
The penalty for apotsacy in Muslim countries is death, sirhansatan cant change his mind because he fears death and unfortunatly he will most likely burn in the lake of fire just like his cult leader muhamood for not being in the book of life.
For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son…….
sirhansatan, please refrain from using your left hand while typin k? Oh and make sure you scrape your sandals the next time you come in, thanks.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:56amProverbs 12:22 The LORD detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.
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Matthew 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:57amIsaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!
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Matthew 1:1 A record of the genealogy of Jesus Christ the son of David, the son of Abraham:
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Matthew 2:2 and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star in the east and have come to worship him.”
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:58amI Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:05amIf any man has an ear, let him hear.
Matthew 11:15 He who has ears, let him hear.
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Mark 4:23 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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Luke 8:8 Still other seed fell on good soil. It came up and yielded a crop, a hundred times more than was sown.” When he said this, he called out, “He who has ears to hear, let him hear.”
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Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.
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Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:07amThen I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon.
Daniel 8:3 I looked up, and there before me was a ram with two horns, standing beside the canal, and the horns were long. One of the horns was longer than the other but grew up later.
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Revelation 13:1 And the dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.
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Revelation 13:4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, “Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?”
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Revelation 16:13 Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:09amRevelation 19:20 But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:44amSirhan-
Report Post »Am I right in concluding that the issue with you is not whether or not the Bible is true; rather, isn’t it that you desire a reason to deny its truth?
SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:53am@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- “Sirhan- Am I right in concluding that the issue with you is not whether or not the Bible is true; rather, isn’t it that you desire a reason to deny its truth?”
************************************************
I don’t know what you mean by true. Christian Bible Scholars say that the King James Bible: “The King James Version has with good reason been termed ”the noblest monument of English prose.“ Its revisers in 1881 expressed admiration for ”its simplicity, its dignity, its power, its happy turns of expression … the music of its cadences, and the felicities of its rhythm.”
It entered, as no other book has, into the making of the personal character and the public institutions of the English-speaking peoples. We owe to it an incalculable debt.”
(Now here’s the shocker)
“By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it evident that The kings James Version is fraught with grave defects. Its defects were so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.
The task was undertaken, by 32 scholars of the highest Eminence backed by 50 different denominations of Christendom.
The Bible is not the word of God!
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:14pmsirhan- “you state the Bible is not the word of God”
Your God is allah correct? Then you are right the Bible is not the word of Allah.
Why do you quote the Bible so much if you dont believe the words thierin are not the truth?
Please enlighten us with any quote from the Bible that PROVES allah (the great deciever) is God!
Why would the codex vaticanus use the aribic allah (الله) in Revelations to describe the Beast but nowhere else? It was written in Greek! What justification will you use to explain this sirhan?
You claim the Bible is not the word of God but the quran is? realy?
Where is YOUR PROOF?
WHERE DOES GOD THE FATHER SAY “I AM ALLAH” OR “ALLAH IS GOD” IN THE BIBLE? PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PROVE GOD IS ALLAH WITH YOUR BIBLE QUOTES……
you love quoting the Bible yet do not believe it? sounds like the Beast speaking from your soul to me.
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:21pmsirhan- you state ““By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it evident that The kings James Version is fraught with grave defects. Its defects were so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.”
does this apply to the codex vaticanus dated 400 B.C. ?
wher do the “words of God” start or end due to translation according to your twisted ideology sirhan?
in the ninteenth century? 400 B.C.
Are the dead sea scrolls the words of God? They sure arent the words of allah!
Report Post »SurhanSurhan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:31pm@ HEARTITORLEAVEIT- “sirhan- you state ““By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it evident that The kings James Version is fraught with grave defects. Its defects were so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation.”
Report Post »*******************************************************************************************************
These are not my words, these are the words of Christian Bible Scholars.
heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:04amsirhan, John 3:16 in context is easy to understand… have you ever read John?
Yohanan 3:12 “If you do not not believe when I spoke to you about the earthly, how are you going to believe when I speak of the shamayim? 13 “And no one has gone up unto the shamayim exept He who came down from the shamayim – the Ben of Adam.14 And the Mosheh lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so the Ben of Adam has to be lifted up, 15 so that whoever is believing in Him should not perish but possess everlasting hai.
Yihanan 3:16 “For Elohim so loved the world that He gave His only brought-forth Ben, so that everyone who believes in Him should not perish but possess everlasting hai.
sirhan, please feel free to give us your scholarly interpetation of TEHILLIM (PSALMS) 83…..
Report Post »heartitorleaveit
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:40amsirhan, please give me your scholarly interpitation of EXACTLY WHO the people are that want to wipe Yisra’el off the map that the name “be no more in rememberance” in TEHILLIM (PSALMS) … Who are the Yishma’elites; Mo’ab, Hagarites; Gebal, Ammon, and Amaleq; Philaseth with the inhabitants of Tsor?
Report Post »hmm?
TEHILLIM 83 : 4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Yisra’el may be no more in remembrance. 5 For they have consulted together with one consent; against thee do they make a covenant: 6 The tents of Edom and the Yishma’elites; Mo’ab, and the Hagarites; 7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amaleq; Philaseth with the inhabitants of Tsor: 8 Ashshur also is joined with them; they have helped the children of Lot. Selah 9 Do thou unto them as unto Midyan; as to Sisera, as to Yabin, at the wadi Qishon: 10 Which perished at En-dor; they became as dung for the ground. 11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb; yea, all their princes like Zebah and Tsalmunna: 12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves in possession the pastures of Elohim For ourselves. 13 O my Elohim, make them like the whirling dust; as stubble before the wind! 14 As the fire that consumes a forest, and as the flame lights the mountains on fire; 15 So pursue them with Your whirlwind. 16 Fill their faces with shame; and let them seek thy name, O YHWH. 17 Let them be ashamed and alarmed forever; And let them become abashed and perish, :]
bobball
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:36pmI think the author should be more careful when using the term Orthodox. If they claim to be Greek Orthodox that is a denomination. Orthodox is a term which has to do with When describing people who obviously are superstitious and have very little clue what Jesus actually taught “Tradition there holds that the person who retrieves a cross will be freed from evil spirits that might have troubled him.”
OR’THODOX, a. [See Orthodoxy.]
1. Sound in the christian faith; believing the genuine doctrines taught in the Scriptures; opposed to heretical; as an orthodox christian.
2. According with the doctrines of Scripture; as an orthodox creed or faith.
Report Post »bobball
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:37pmaccidentally posted before editing…anyway you know what I mean!
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:53pmHoly Theophany…. Christ is Baptized — in the Jordan!
God bless my Orthodox brothers and sisters… may the Holy Apostolic Church be One again
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:00pmI’m Apostolic! I obeyed Acts 2:38 just like the Apostle’s taught.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:14pm@BOMUSTGO
You do realize that the pentecostal “churches” are less than 200 years old and that Christianity is almost 2000 years old?
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:23pmNews Bulletin: Laundry soap sample sent thru mail – 7 dead – Trust but verify!!!
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:25pmYou do realize that Paul said that after his death, wolves will come in not sparing the flock and that they will twist and perfert the Apostle’s doctrine to the point it would be beyond recognition.Over one hundred years ago, people hungry for God and truth began to seek him in prayer and studied the book of Acts to be like the first century believers. It was not long after that God poured out his Spirit once again and the Spirit leads and guides into ALL truth and they began to get rid of the many false doctrines and teachimgs of the commandments of man that krept in over the centuries. The true church has been restored, and they Baptize (not sprinkle) in the NAME of Jesus (not in three titles which started after the second century along with sprinkling confirming Pauls warning in Acts 20:29) and the Nine gifts do operate among them.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:28pmByzantine_Catholic – Amen!
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:34pmIf the Apostles were here today, they would teach and preach the same things that the Pentecostal’s teach and preach. they would not deviate from the book of Acts and they would be much hated by the RCC and most protestant churches.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:03pmAgain with the hate complex. We Catholics love our Pentacostal brethen. We pray you may come home to the fullness of the faith some day, but we definitely don’t hate you.
Let’s all continue to pray for one another!
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:19pmRome never was the home of the church.Jerusalem was where it started and Juresalem is where Jesus will return.He is not returning to Rome, Salt Lake City or the TBN studio… Being filled with the Spirit makes me a member of the true church..The Spirit is called “The earnest of our inheritance.” I don’t need a pope, priests, nuns, man-made false teachings to be a part of the true church..
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:27pm@BOMUSTGO
I believe ST Paul that there has been a Great Corruption of Doctrine as we see with churches and doctrine that are only a few centuries old,, However, Christ promised that the gate of hell will not prevail over his church and if the original church was Corrupted then we are all wasting our time as Christ was wrong when he said:
Matthew 16:18
Report Post »And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:34pmThe “Rock” he was talking about is that He, Jesus, is “the Christ the Son of the living God.” God manifest in the flesh..This is the foundation.1 Cor 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. I suppose you think the priests can turn bread and wine into the actual body and blood of Christ?
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:39pm@BOMUSTGO
You are right in that Rome is not the sole chuch
The early Christian church consisted of the Patriarchs which are: Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem. All of them in communion for the first 400 years.. 4 of them in communion for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Protestantism broke from the Roman Church in the 16th century.
Even today the Catholic Church is not just the “Roman catholic church” but a confederation of 23 churches of which my Melkite Catholic church is one of them.. BTW.. we are the original church of Antioch (equal claim as the orthodox as we split in the 18th century) which now resides in Damascus, Syria
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:53pmRoman Catholic is passe. I identify myself as a Catholic of the Latin Rite.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:02pm@SavedByTheLamb
“Roman Catholic is passe. I identify myself as a Catholic of the Latin Rite”
Amen brother!.. From a catholic of the Byzantine rite in the Melkite Church
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 7:12pmByzantine,
Bless you brother! Isn’t it great to come from different traditions, but be Catholic together! The Holy Father recently said that we need to start breathing from both lungs again – east and west!
We are all members of the Body of Christ, including our combative friends here. May we all be one as Jesus prayed at the Last Supper!
Amen!
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 7, 2012 at 9:04am@SavedByTheLamb
That is the beauty of the Holy Catholic Church, we breathe with both lungs (Eastern Churches and Western Church). Both sharing the Apostolic faith expressed in traditions of equal dignity and truth.
God Bless Brother,
John
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:39pmProtestants.. Read some scripture.. God works thru people and objects
Acts 19:11-13
Report Post »God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:55pmWe Pentecostals do this still today.We will annoint the cloth with oive oil and prayer is said for the one it is for. Power is not the cloth, it is through the name and faith in the name during the prayer.The cloths are sent to the sick or those in need.And it works. People get healed.The nine gifts still are in operation today.
Report Post »Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:09pm@BOMUSTGO
The Power Comes from God and God alone.. God grants the healing because of your faith.. or God can just grant the healing — God does not need your faith or permission
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 5:29pmGod wants our participation.Do you think he really needed the Israelites to march around the city of Jericho and blow the trumpets to make the walls come down? He could have tore them down by himself. He wants us to get involved with the process.That’s why we still lay hands on the sick and they do recover..Mark 16:17-18 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Report Post »18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
searching for the Truth
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:01pmActs 2:38 , even on a cold day.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:13pmYou got that right!!
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:39pmI haven‘t participated but I’ve attended a few of these occassions. Lots of good food afterwards.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:00pmMatthew 28:18-20
Rom 6:4
1 Cor 12:13
Matt 28:18-20
Gal 3:27
Jn 3:3-5
1 Peter 3:21
and Acts 2:38
all are all pretty effective, taken together.
Report Post »searching for the Truth
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 10:18pmHave you heard His Voice yet ? Many will tremble.
Report Post »alina.bolero
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 3:51pmThe have that celebration in Tarpon Springs, FL every year too. Except they let teenage boys dive for the cross.
Report Post »BOMUSTGO
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 3:50pmThere is no power in the symbol of the cross. Power is in the name and by faith in the name.See Acts 3:16
Report Post »Gh0stWrit3r
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:25pmExactly. I see no problem with drawing attention the the work on the cross, but I do see a problem when idols are kissed and special “blessings” (health for the year) are attributed to a ceremony like this. I am confident this is not what Christ had in mind for his followers.
Report Post »I do applaud their dedication and zeal :).
Byzantine_Catholic
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 4:41pmActs 19:11-13
God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 6:32pmIn the Catholic and Orthodox tradition, a crucifix such as mentioned in this story would fall under the category of “sacramental.” Sacramentals are objects sanctified by the Grace of God and their effectiveness in promoting piety and combating evil does depend on the devotion of the believer, as BOMUSTGO pointed out. Here is a good explanation of sacramentals and crucifixes.
http://www.fisheaters.com/sacramentals.html
http://www.fisheaters.com/crucifixes.html
This is probably going to be a point where non-Catholics are going to differ / disagree with the practice of sacramentals. We already know that not all Christians have this practice. This information is intended to explain the tradition and basis for what is described in the article above.
This is a really interesting story – I never realized Eastern Orthodox Christians had this tradition.
Report Post »Tickdog
Posted on January 6, 2012 at 3:43pmthat would be an instant heart attack if i jumped in water that cold… I can barely stand water 85 F.
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