‘Our Rights Come From Nature and God, Not Government’: Paul Ryan Channels Philosopher John Locke in Announcement Speech
- Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:29pm by
Benny Johnson
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There was a rare, pure philosophical moment in Rep. Paul Ryan’s running mate announcement speech in Norfolk, Va. Saturday that should not be overlooked. The Wisconsin congressman waxed on the natural contract between government, man and God:
“But America is more than just a place…it’s an idea. It’s the only country founded on an idea. Our rights come from nature and God, not government. We promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. This idea is founded on the principles of liberty, freedom, free enterprise, self-determination and government by consent of the governed.”
In a 30-second sound bite media world, rich philosophical rhetoric seldom reaches the podium teleprompter. But Ryan’s speech was a conduit to some of the essential founding principles of the nation. In particular, the comments are a direct conceptual channeling of English philosopher John Locke.
Locke argued that because governments were instituted to protect the unalienable rights of individuals, they had no power other than what was necessary to protect such rights. In other words, a free and just government was necessarily a limited government. His sentiments were devoutly believed by the Founding Fathers and are reflected in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.
In Locke’s defining Second Treatise on Government, the he argued that “freedom of men under government is to have a standing rule to live by but as freedom of nature is, to be under no other restraint but the law of nature and God.”
Locke added further weight to the argument for natural rights as he argued against the subjugation of human beings in The State of Nature:
“For men being all the workmanship of one omnipotent and infinitely wise Maker; all the servants of one Sovereign Master, sent into the world by his order and about his business, they are his property whose workmanship they are, made to last during his, not one another’s, pleasure. And being furnished with like faculties, sharing all in one community of nature, there cannot be supposed any such subordination among us that may authorize us to destroy one another, as if we were made for one another’s uses, as the inferior ranks of creatures are for ours.”
Ryan followed up his Lockean statement by adding: “This idea is founded on the principles of liberty, freedom, free enterprise, self-determination and government by consent of the governed.”
Even on the point of consent of the governed, Locke can be consulted: In his writings on The Dissoloution of Government, Locke discusses the actions a society must take when a government steps outside the “limited powers” it is entitled to:
“The reason why men enter into society is the preservation of their property; and the end while they choose and authorise a legislative is that there may be laws made, and rules set, as guards and fences to the properties of all the society, to limit the power and moderate the dominion of every part and member of the society. For since it can never be supposed to be the will of the society that the legislative should have a power to destroy that which every one designs to secure by entering into society, and for which the people submitted themselves to legislators of their own making: whenever the legislators endeavour to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any farther obedience, and are left to the common refuge which God has provided for all men against force and violence.“
In all, Ryan’s philosophy on the social contract between man and government has a firm grounding in the natural rights principles of John Locke and ergo the American Founders. It will be highly interesting to see these concepts drawn up in the political discourse and debate of the next few months, leading up to November.
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Comments (451)
purecolorartist
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:26pmHe seems to be right on his votes on energy & oil:
Report Post »http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Paul_Ryan_Energy_+_Oil.htm
soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:43pmthat should be a no-brainer these days
Report Post »www.TopTheNews.com
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:48pmWe need self-sufficient energy policies…The world is getting crazier by the day.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:03pmHave a little faith in your heart, and know that every single thing that happens, happens within the confines of God’s temple. So relax. There is nothing out of the reach of God, and it’s a tribulation only because you make it that way.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:13pmI’m guessing it would probably bother Progressives if they [really] knew everything they do has been preordained by God Almighty.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:18pmFar it is from people’s minds to understand that even in the taunting that Satan was doing to Job was preordained by God, and eventually Satan just had to walk away, because he couldn‘t beat Jobs’ reasoning and logic.
Report Post »sillyfreshness
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:20pmIf Mitt Romney got the endorsement of LECH WALESA, that’s good enough for me. Lech Walesa was one of the main players who ended communism in Eastern Europe and is a patriot of freedom and enemy of the commies. Walesa knows a commie when he sees one and Obama fits the bill.
I’ll take the endorsement of Lech Walesa. I know the Democrats (commies) brag about Obama getting the endorsement of China or Cuba or 3rd world banana republics, but I’ll take Lech Walesa any day.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:24pm[Everything is perfectly imperfect] otherwise even God would even fall and the universe would cease to exist – in that even God would cease to question his roll in life therefore not seeing his own imperfections through not questioning his [own place] leading to the collapse of the universe.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:33pmEven in the way God‘s Commandments were derived in that not doing them isn’t productive to life and challenges. Take for example Thou shall not kill, because eventually it leads to someone killing yourself. Or Thou shall not commit adultery, because the way it’s supposed to work is that God brings your wife to you whom is a portion of your soul, and thus you bear false witness against yourself, and even your children suffer.
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:47pm@Waters
Report Post »Are you saying that we should sit back and relax and let the men with guns lead us away into camps. God preordained that too, but guess who He would hold responsible for our complacency. God not only ordains what will happen but how it would happen. Are you going to be a part of the cause of all the bad things through ignorance and apathy or are you going to be able to face God one day and tell Him, “I did everything I could to make people aware,” though we’re not perfect, we have Jesus to thank as our only defense. But you sound far gone. Come back please and wake up. The fight is within ourselves and I don’t want you to lose.
watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:53pmPutMoreOnMyPlate,
Report Post »You just go on to think it means whatever you want it to mean – that determines whether or not you conquer. Has there ever been a time when the Lord didn’t raise up armies to put down a wicked empire? No. Do you think the Lord will start now? You shouldn’t think that. But even Jesus said that many of you will be imprisoned – first starting mentally and then even physically. How about a one world order? Those keep failing don’t they.
watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:15pmAnd of course there are people who will tempt my intelligence by asking “Oh if you’re so smart, what did I eat for breakfast today?” Of course it’s written Thou shall not tempt the Lord. The Lord will say I always win so I don’t need to know what color pacifier you slurped on today.
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:25pmI think you misunderstand me or we misunderstand each other. God knows everything that is and will happen I’m not denying that and I go further to say that we have free will to make our decisions and He knows the outcomes of those decisions. I say it be a sin though just to sit back and take it all in without trying to do ANY good at all. I have my faith and love for Jesus Christ and because of that I desire with every ounce of my being for GOOD. I’ve turned away from past sins and I have changed because of my experience. I am NOT a good person and am only saved by the good the Christ did for all of us and I chose to accept it. But it‘s my responsibility as well as anyone that claims to be Christian to live within God’s will. And while nonbelievers and believers alike play a part in God’s will, it’s a lot more impactful if you actively participate instead of being a drifting pacifist.
PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:37pmOh and one more thing, God doesn’t ever promise that we always “win.” Especially when we turn our backs on Him with pride. See where I’m getting at the battles within ourselves. We‘ve become complacent with our freedoms and now it’s time to wake up. Sometimes the biggest loss isn’t death or persecution but fame and glory. The world hates us. Not until after the 7 years will this world see true peace.
Report Post »ZengaPA65
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:42pmYeah yeah yeah whatever, if they get elected they’ll crank down on us with the police state even more than their two predecessors.
Report Post »QuincySmith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:00pmTXdaveIQ11;
Do you know how to read poll internals, did you bother to check them? If you did you would realize that oblama and his demons are panicked (hint the double down on provable lying ads). Likely voters trump registered voters. November election trumps (left-leaning) skewed polls. So enjoy your perceived lead and elusive victory.
Report Post »LibertyOrDeath12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:21pmYeah Ryan is right. We do get our rights from GOD, but he still is a hypocrite, because God doesn’t give power to one man to kill others. God would never support the NDAA. God would never support the patriot act. God would never support Nation Building, he would be an Nonintervention. God respects the Golden Rule.So do me a favor and stop acting like your our God because your not.
Report Post »turkey13
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:27pmObama started Government Motors and the first thing Romney needs to do start GOC – Government Oil Co. You would only be able to do this if the Congress rolls back EPA rules to 2008. Here Oklahoma we have stopped oil drilling, Obama took care of Exxon, BP and Shell. The day of the independent drilling and hitting a gusher is past. They would have to hire 20 lawyers to sort through EPA’s rules and then $100,000.00 for payoffs before drilling. GOC could put over a million workers to work and those woprkers would pay good taxes. Another 1/2 million would be put to work as a side benefit ot oil drilling.
Report Post »West Coast Patriot
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:36pmWaters, In the days of old the law was that you did nothing on the Sabbath, but Christ said you should not let your ass stay stuck in the mud by following the Sabbath and that you should work to get it out. If he would have thought like you, he would have said do not work on the Sabbath, God will get your ass unstuck if that is his will. Just another way to think about it.
Report Post »Xcori8r
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:40pmWithout doubt, those are the five most hopeful sentences I have heard from any politician since Reagan.
Report Post »I am about out of confidence for the world’s “ last, best hope”.
PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:43pmThank you West Coast <3 I was making it a bit too complicated :o
Report Post »Deuteronomy22
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:52pmRyan supported and supports TARP, Patriot Act, indefinite detention, …
Report Post »Xcori8r
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:02pmOh, and about those “five most hopeful sentences ”..
If the Supreme Court of the United States understood that, the country might survive this mess we are in.
Report Post »West Coast Patriot
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:11pmPure, The yes votes that concern me are the ones Ryan did on The Patriot Act and the NDAA. Those two yes votes tells me he does not care about keeping the government small, deal breaker. Oh, and Romney is supportive of both also, so double deal breaker there.
Ron Paul is the only one that talks bad about these. I hear Romney/Ryan talking somewhat like Ron Paul now, but I believe it is a little too late.
Report Post »jungle J
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:15pmwatersRpeople…you preaching is straight out of…well not heaven…just one correction…thou shalt not kill means murder….don’t argue with me because I was taught to never argue with progressive operatives…
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:29pmOH GOOD GRIEF!!! GOD DOES NOT PRE-ORDAIN OUR STUPIDITY, (ROLLING EYES, SHAKING HEAD) (((((( ARGHHHH)))))) Try to figure this out: God gave us all Free Will because that is the ONLY way that our coming to Him counts. Because HE is GOD His Perspective of “our Time Line” is total. He knows when we came in, what we did, and we we go out. THAT IS NOTHING like being PRE-ORDAINED. IF you are a Christian and you don’t know that, then may I suggest that you take some real courses and learn about this GOD you profess to know. Otherwise it’s as if you came to the best banquet in the world and stayed in the foyer the whole time. (You were “there” but you didn’t get any of the benefits).
Secondly: I simply may have to stop watching TV for 90 days. I cannot believe that Obama has the guts (or else he’s totally, card-carrying insane) to say : YOU Have a choice. Your choice (paraphrased:) is between moving forward to the utopia I’m telling you about, vs. the wicked History of the USA. GOOD GRIEF!!!! Just remember: Our Economy fell apart shortly after Piglosi and Reid took over in Jan 2007…that’s when the banks were strong-armed, wrote all the bogus paper and consequently ruined the WORLD’S ECONOMY TOO. BUSH wasn’t perfect of course, but there was 9/11 Katrina Iraq. You’d never know we endured 9/11 with all the Muslims Obama is bowing to in our White House. We have a Choice alright. Mine is to throw that liar thug out!!!
Report Post »Hammerdown
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:40pmTake that profile shot of Paul and put a beard on him, what does it remind you of?
Report Post »txdave22
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 8:42pmMany religious leaders urged bush not to go to war in iraq; they were correct. Many of same have said something must be done about gun deaths and so many having no access to medical care except on emergency basis.
All these things are the fault of the GOP. Intelligent peeps should be angry at the things done to this country by pubs.
Casualties and losses
Iraqi Security Forces (post-Saddam)
Killed: 16,623[12]
Wounded: 40,000+[13]
Coalition Forces
Killed: 4,805[14][15] (4,487 U.S.,[16] 179 UK,[17] 139 other)
Missing/captured (U.S.): 8 (all rescued)[18]
Wounded: 32,753+ (32,226 U.S.,[19] 315 UK, 212+ other[20])[21][22][23][24] Injured/diseased/other medical*: 51,139 (47,541 U.S.,[25] 3,598 UK)[21][23][24]
None of this had to happen, all part of the cheney/bush reign of error.
—————-
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies
Report Post »(if Obamacare had begun 10 years earlier, this wouldn’t have happened; pubs
stood in the way of US having same healthcare and fewer bankruptcies as other advanced
countries)
June 05, 2009|By Theresa Tamkins
This year, an estimated 1.5 million Americans will declare bankruptcy. Many people may chalk up that misfortune to overspending or a lavish lifestyle, but a new study suggests that more than 60 percent of people who go bankrupt are actually capsized by medical bills.
Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2
jzs
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:37pmSorry, no, I didn’t here Ryan channeling Locke in his statements. I heard him channeling the notorious atheist Ayn Rand. Given Ryan has professed many times that his foundation of belief is the philosophy of Ayn Rand, someone who mocked Christians as too weak to exert themselves over their fellow man, little surprise that he would emphasize the God stuff in his speech.
His statement that “Our rights come from nature and God…” although cleverly worded, is a direct contradiction of the philosophy of Ayn Rand whose philosophy is the basis for his beliefs. Rand believed that morality is defined, not by God, but by the powerful man. Right and wrong is defined by what serves a person’s best interest.
“If any civilization is to survive, it is the morality of altruism that men have to reject.” Altruism is at the very heart of the Christian religion. Love your neighbor, love your money, give what you can to the poor. Jesus taught that altruism is a virtue, something that Ayn Rand mocked and argued against.
No, I didn’t hear Locke in his speech. I heard the words of his atheist heroine. Morality is defined by the rich and powerful, and the meek can go f- themselves.
Report Post »The_Sum_Total_Of_Progressivism_Is_Epic_Failure
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:34amI am so proud of Paul Ryan, from my home state Wisconsin, Ryan speaks the truth from the heart, and has the numbers, calculations, theories, future planning and experience to back it all up. He will be a big asset…… F@# ! the Lying Obama , and Debbie Blabbermouth. We know the truth. !Progressives are sad bunch of heartless, soulless losers. !..and so are their followers.
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:51amJZ wrote: “His statement that “Our rights come from nature and God…” although cleverly worded, is a direct contradiction of the philosophy of Ayn Rand whose philosophy is the basis for his beliefs. Rand believed that morality is defined, not by God, but by the powerful man. Right and wrong is defined by what serves a person’s best interest.
No, I didn’t hear Locke in his speech. I heard the words of his atheist heroine. Morality is defined by the rich and powerful, and the meek can go f- themselves.”
Water will flow uphill before the Left will stop demonizing and mischaracterizing Rand’s philosophy. It’s almost Pavlovian how her name will produce an innate rage in a Leftist.
Rand made no such proposition that “morality is defined by powerful men”. This is utter nonsense; a nonsense that can only be proposed by one who has no knowledge of what she actually wrote. She wrote frequently on the concept that something is true regardless of who proposes the claim, but whether it corresponds with observed realiy.
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:25amJZS: Paul Ryan, like me, and many others believe Ann Rand had some really great ideas and thoughts on economics, freedom, and life–however her views against God and religion is not one of them. If one is a little open minded like Ryan, one can listen and learn from others by taking in the good ideas and throwing out the bad. I know the left wing Progressives have a hard time with this concept…you should try it some time. If your boy Obama would have he could have learned something.
http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/5921/paul_ryan%3A_i_reject_ayn_rand,_she%27s_an_atheist!/
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:17amEnergy and oil may SEEM like a no-brainer, but the sittig President wants to destroy the coal industry (and just where does he think our electricity COMES from for all those powder blue Prieses?) and won’t drill because he wants us to have to buy from Brazil. Living in Texas, that’s just one reason to vote for Romney/Ryan. Now, where can I get my yard sign?
Report Post »schmamebah
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 7:19amLook towards North Dakota and what is happening there. We so much opportunity right here in America to produce our own energy and start removing ourselves from dependence on Middle Eastern oil. I’m sick and tired of the “not in my backyard” thought process! And while development of other forms of energy is a good thing, you cannot put it front and foremost and ignore everything else when this country is hurting so bad!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 10:24amOur rights come from god, not government. That’s why you people demonize every theocracy in the world.
Patty, I see you have the unknowable all figured out. Way to go with trying to make an excuse fit your narrow world view. How many times did you keep yourself up at night working that one out in your head? Maybe next time you should be pondering the mysteries of Ancient Aliens. I’d really like to see what you could do with that square peg.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:42pmA tyranny by any other name would taste just as bitter. There is no difference between a theocracy and a dictatorship, other than name.
Instead of a bureaucrat telling you what to do, it will be a theocrat.Both forms of government put a man between you and God.
Here is the natural order of powers, the “chain of command” if you will.
Theocracy: God —-> Government —-> Man
Republic: God —-> Man —-> Government
Communism: Government —-> People (God does not exist in a communism)
Report Post »Ragnars Repos
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:54pmHa! Conservatives ‘channeling’ John Locke as they clammer for more ‘social(ist) safety net’ from their pol masters.
Conservative says, “We want socialism, but not too much.”
It will fail, conservatives. It is failing right now. Rush is probably right about a short-term boost, but the ‘social(ist) safety net’ that the conservatives and the progressives have concocted WILL FAIL–it’s just a matter of time.
You cannot contain socialism.
In the end, Americans traded one king for 535.
Watching Rome burn.
Report Post »Cesium
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 8:56pm@JZS Ayn Rand never promoted anyone be against altruisism. She simply explained altruism is carried out by the individual not forced by government. You have really falsely ans severely mis-portrayed her
Report Post »FatFreedom
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 1:46amPaul Ryan is a Big Government Establishment person, that appeals to people that are not from his district.
Him like Harry Reid refuses to hold an open Town Hall meeting:
Report Post »http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Glzma7r-BOI
Ragnars Repos
Posted on August 14, 2012 at 2:07pm@JZS You don‘t know what you’re talking about. If you a curious enough, go to AynRandLexicon.com and read a bit.
Report Post »patricius
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:25pmEveryone‘s grievances with Romney’s and Ryan’s conservative bona fides notwithstanding, this ticket is our best hope at rolling back the enormous strides achieved by radicals in recent decades. It could certainly be a lot worse. Paul Ryan has read – and respects – the same sound and well-reasoned thinkers that inspired our founding fathers. He is not afraid to invoke the name and importance of our Creator in his public speaking. Our president and the majority of his Democratic allies sneer down their noses at this worldview and behavior even as they hold in high regard vile men such as Saul Alinsky, who pays homage to Satan in the dedication to that great liberal bible, “Rules for Radicals.”
Get behind Romney and Ryan. Men are fallible and imperfect. These two men, at least ostensibly, rightfully place man below our Creator in priority and significance, unlike so many of their liberal counterparts.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:30pmMy fear is that, like Bush, Romney will not roll back anything of substance. He will do some trimming as show. His bloodline is one of progressivism.
Report Post »patricius
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:38pmThat’s a legitimate fear, of course, but we must still get behind these two for the sake of our nation. It’s the best we can do in such a desperate time of national imperilment.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:44pmI agree, painfully.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:46pm@patricius
“That’s a legitimate fear, of course, but we must still get behind these two for the sake of our nation. It’s the best we can do in such a desperate time of national imperilment.”
I dont buy it. For the last three presidential elections, Sean Hannity and the like have said “this is the election is the most important in history….” – all of which is a ploy to make us stay in line and not vote for real change. Regarding your quote, that was the exact same excuse that was used to cram the Patriot Act down our throats.
No more
Report Post »Look4DBigPicture
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:52pm@The_Jerk
Have faith, J. Romney will respect the Constitution. It’s our job to give him the support he needs by filling our Congress (and state governing offices) with strong constitutional conservatives and libertarians.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:31pmI think he will do just like Bush, and in 4 years, the democrats will take back the whitehouse, and both houses, and we will be truly screwed. We need to lose 90 to 10 and maybe finally the conservatives/christians might wake up and throw out the evil liberals once and for all.
Report Post »Amarilloan
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:32pmYou said that extremely well (and without getting preachy). I applaud you and your rhetoric.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:33pmHow many years of taxes did Ryan submit to Romney, and if it was more than two, why do Conservatives support the hypocrite Romney?
Report Post »Hayekthegreat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:15pm@jerk. Then it is your job to pressure your congressman and senators to not allow the President to back away from his promises.
Report Post »BoyScout_Mom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:18pmhttp://40daystosaveamerica.com/
Sept 28 – Nov 6
Report Post »40 days
LibertyOrDeath12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:23pmI’ll never get behind Romney. He is a criminal and has rigged this whole election.
Report Post »West Coast Patriot
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:57pmPatricius, You can go on thinking that way, but I am not fooled at all. When candidates shift their positions to other positions in order to win your support, they are lying to you. If a person is true to their core beliefs, they stick with those beliefs, if they are not true, they will not. Romney has never shown any conviction to any core belief, and I do not trust him. Paul Ryan does not have the right ideas on a balanced budget, his takes forty years to do so, just kicking the can down the road, slowing us down just a little bit from the 100 mph speed we are heading toward the cliff. Here he is supporting TARP, why? because he is a team player and it was being pushed by progressive Bush, and helped kick a can down the road..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyJBZYz858M&feature=youtu.be
Progressives are the problem and although Ryan claims to fight progressivism, I have my doubts. If his claims are true, he should have stuck to denouncing socialist programs like Tarp. I will not support this ticket.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 8:01pm@PATRICIUS
Well said. Unfortunately eloquence has never been known to restore sanity to a cult member.
Take West Coast Patriot. He claims that “Paul Ryan does not have the right ideas on a balanced budget, his takes forty years to do so, just kicking the can down the road.” Coming from a supporter of zero-outcome career politician Ron Paul, that statement is almost hypocritical. I say “almost,” because WCP has been brainwashed. The guy actually believes Messiah RP will rip the harness off our backs — the harness being the Federal Reserve — wish the aliens Godspeed, and we’ll all live happily ever after. It’s so simple…
Report Post »Quest4Freedom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 11:50pmI agree with you as these men are human, but with God’s direction, our best hope for our country. Our time is running out and the wicked elements want nothing more but to divide us by bickering amongst ourselves.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:14pmHenry VIII had “god’s direction”. So did Hitler and king George.
Report Post »Ragnars Repos
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 4:36pm“our best hope at rolling back the enormous strides achieved by radicals in recent decades”
Boy, are folks like you in for major disappointment.
Romney/Ryan will not roll back much. In fact, they will ADD to the problem. Stick around and see for yourself.
Conservatives are nothing but watered-down socialists in denial.
Conservatives want to suckle on the gov’t nipple as much as any takers. They’re just arguing over the extent of the rot (socialism); the degree of slavery.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:23pmIt’s kind of weird how the west reflects the east when the Old Tree stands.
Report Post »iampraying4u
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:58pmTake your meds water
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:46pm“My knees are aligned with the underground rivers.” ~PN, the best philosopher that ever was.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 12:46pmI am very confused now
Report Post »IsThereADifference
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 1:41pmMore vague gibberish from WATERSPEOPLE…. Yippy.
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:21pmRegardless of who gets in office you know deep in your heart I’ll be taking your firearms away from you, and they have jets and tanks. It’s not as if you have even a 1st Amendment, in that you all won’t even speak your mind because you are afraid of fines, imprisonment or losing your business.
Report Post »TurboCat
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:25amAre you of any relation to “It’s Just Tim”?
Report Post »TEARS FOR AMERICA
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:18pmUnchecked government lulls a people to sleep long enough for them to wake up one day and find they cannot move for the chains…
TEA
Report Post »Want our country back
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:43pmLet’s break the chains of 110 Million Americans that are living off our taxdollars. I have shed tears for America often these past 3 1/2 years.
Democrats are LIARS,
Register &, vote (take your camera phone with you when you vote)
Report Post »encinom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:36pmMore worshipers of greed, who would let people die sick and hunger in the streets so that their masters weren’t burdened with paying a fair share of taxes.
Serfs, to stop to realize that they are back stabbing their fellow Americans for crumbs off of the Koch brother’s table,
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:55pmToo poor to vote Republican, too disgusted to vote Democrat, too disillusioned to vote Third Party. I’m praying. That it will be quick and painless instead of these jerks drawing it out like this. I feel like I have a gun being held to my head but the guy wants to go on and on about why he does and doesn’t want to pull the trigger and then ask his buddies in the room if he should do it. This vascillating is driving me crazy. But God taught me patience and I am such a stubborn…
Report Post »Mapache
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:31pmThe people are no longer asleep and they have been nourished with Chik-Fil-A. Everything the libs do blows up in their faces…..the Harry Reid Letter about Rush Limbaugh…..the Harry Reid Tax Accusation of Mitt Romney….Obama “you didn’t build that” quote……‘Romney caused my wife’s cancer’ commercial…..the list goes on and on…..Take away their big lie tactic and they got nuthin’!
Report Post »MODEL82A1
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:54pmENCIDIOT, “Worshiper of ”Greed”"? Guilty as charged. It’s called being a BUSINESS OWNER. You and you lazy, worthless kind just keep worshiping Welfare. I‘m happy to report that it’s gonna be a bumpy ride for you the next four years, Loser.
Report Post »P.S. I’m told that Walmart “Great Value” brand dog food really isn’t that bad.
NeoFan
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:27pmEncinoman show us the hords of liberal democrats that give freely of there own means. They don’t. They only demand that money be taken from some to give to others. Conservatives lead by example not by tyranny.
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 1:06amENCINO wrote “More worshipers of greed, who would let people die sick and hunger in the streets so that their masters weren’t burdened with paying a fair share of taxes.
Serfs, to stop to realize that they are back stabbing their fellow Americans for crumbs off of the Koch brother’s table”
LOL!!! Only hyper-partisan hacks would attempt to make the claim that pro-Statist politicians like Romney and Ryan have any desire to cut government spending to any measurable degree. Even the oft touted “Ryan budget” still expands government spending, simply slower than Obama’s plans. It takes a pathological level of cognitive bias to contort trillions in spending into “letting the sick and hungry die”. But such is the disease of politics.
Report Post »tootser922
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:17pmPraise the Lord! We will soon be back to what our forefathers designed for this country. With both Romney and Ryan, their leadership will restore our country. My prayer is that the Lord will put a circle of light and hedge of thorns around them for protection against the evil ones. In Jesus’ precious name. Amen!
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:23pmHave you seen their plan or platform? Does that even matter?
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:27pmThe platform of the republican party is about power and control – the platform of the forefathers was liberty. I cannot see how the two intersect
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:30pmHave you Roth?
http://www.mittromney.com/issues
http://budget.house.gov/uploadedfiles/pathtoprosperity2013.pdf
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:39pm@Devine,
I have. Particularly, I‘ve seen Ryan’s fiscal proposal. It doesn’t work. It passes the buck. No way you can balance the budget over decades. A) we won’t abide by it B) it adds to the debt and we can only service said debt because the Fed prevents the free market from affecting interest rates. C) it doesn’t address the unfunded liabilites of programs outside of Medicare.
Yes, it s a step in the right direction. No, it is not acceptable. We will melt down LONG before this would ever come to fruition even if it passed and subsequent congress’ abided by it. Government is too big and our economy can’t hold it up much longer. This budget doesn’t fix that. I applaud the effort, but he was trying to do it in a politically sensitive manner. We’re beyond that and people need to hear the truth.
As for Mitt, there is an awful lot of platitude and not much substance there. That isn’t a business plan, that’s a bumper sticker.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:06pmRoth, I suppose your Dear Leader Ron Paul is our only solution. Right? I agree with Ron on monetary and fiscal positions as do the majority of current R’s. Nobody knows when the house of cards will collapse only God! I’m still voting for Romney/Ryan. I voted for Ron Paul in 2008 and and regret that ill thought out decision. 100+yrs of progressive policies do not and cannot get rolled back in one day. That would most definitely throw America in a tail spin. What is Ron Paul’s solution? When is Ron Paul going to stop taking earmarks? Why is Ron Paul cozy with marxist Adam Kokesh and the Veterans of Peace(a comme front group)?
Report Post »PutMoreOnMyPlate
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:50pmWe don’t have decades :(
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:19pmDIVINE. Don‘t ask ’BARDIAN questions like that… takes him off message. He’s a mini-me styled parroting economist wannabe’ (well, aren’t all these Paul guys) along the lines of Mises, Rothbard and Ron Paul (the 3 Austrian economics stooges.. 4 if you include Lew Rockwell).
‘BARDIAN hasn’t got time to be a deep-thinker and search deep into the bowels of his ideology and the crap sandwich of supporters that attach themselves to his idelogy and why. He‘s on a parrot’s mission. Give him a ******* not a question.
Report Post »TIME_2_END_THE_PAUL_CAMPAIGN_IN_12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:22pmGive him a “C R A C K E R” not a question.
Report Post »chalkdust
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:21pmGood grief! I’m tired of this do or die mentality. I do believe we have clear, urgent problems but if you think Romney and Ryan will get us out of this mess, you’re mistaken. I support them both with the knowledge that they both have to be held accountable. This is and should have always been an ongoing process of holding politicians accountable. We the people have fallen asleep at the wheel and it’s time to get in the game. We don’t live and die by one election and this one is no different in that regard. You must accept the fact that Obama could win. Hand ringing and predictions of doom if he is reelected will be unacceptable. This does not mean we ignore the possible dire effects but we don’t give up!
Report Post »And for the Paule’s: End the fed means congress controls our monetary supply. At this point in history given the low level of congressional trust, this would be a very bad move. Give me a true Tea Party congress and we’ll talk.
Going back to the gold standard sounds great doesn’t it? But do you realize that the money supply would have to contract by more than half. Do you understand what that means? Can you fathom the death toll from that? War, warlords dissolution of countries and mass starvation. It’s the absolute worst case imaginable.
So, no, no, no thank you. It would take a world wide effort many years to slowly ease back to a gold standard and I highly doubt the cooperation between countries would be enough to work. War and destruction. No thanks Ron Paul!
Classical Liberal
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:42pm@devine, Bullcrap you voted for Ron Paul in 2012. You bought the establishment lie and voted for McCain or the other progressive on the ballot, Obama.
People who support Ron Paul based on ideological liberalist principles will not toss those aside to continue supporting the path to tyranny and war.
That being said, Paul Ryan running as vice president will serve as an indicator of where our nation stands on fiscal libertarian economic reform. He may be offering it in micro dosage, but it is still a 180 shift from our current course.
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 1:31am“BARDIAN hasn’t got time to be a deep-thinker and search deep into the bowels of his ideology and the crap sandwich of supporters that attach themselves to his idelogy and why. He‘s on a parrot’s mission.”
When someone is so obsessed that they make their screen name “Time 2 End the Paul Campaign” it’s hard to take them seriously on any issue regarding said topic.
Report Post »purecolorartist
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:15pmAt least he seems to be right on Global Warming er Climate Change er Climate Disruption ie. Climate Propaganda:
Report Post »http://notrickszone.com/2012/08/11/paul-ryan-climatologists-intentionally-mislead-the-public-on-climate-change/
DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:35pmGreen is the new Red.
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:15pmYou think fiscal reform is coming with Ryan? News flash: The federal reserve‘s monied masters don’t wear suits and ties and appear on TV.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:26pmRyan is on board with auditing the fed. Real change does not happen overnight and we must take the Senate also. Harry Reid has got to get demoted!
Report Post »MeteoricLimbo
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:29pm@tekknyne3
Report Post »Your criticism of wearing apparel and haircuts is a tad on the shallow side pal. Your true depth is showing. What do they pay you for your brain power? Bananas?
GoodStuff
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:43pm“The federal reserve‘s monied masters don’t wear suits and ties and appear on TV.”
kook alert
Report Post »KidCharlemagne
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:47pmGoodStuff
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:43pm
kook alert
===========================
I’m glad you told me……….I’ll make sure to ignore you from now on.
Report Post »PaulRyanBailoutKing
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:07pmvoted for TARP voted for the bailaouts conservatism is cool! Most commentors on this site are just tools of the republican party. And I am the troll, yea right!
Report Post »Steverino
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:13pmMETEOR – I took TEK’s comment to mean that the ones in power fiscally are not the politicians (suits and ties) we see and hear on TV ad infinitum.
Report Post »The unseen money masters are pulling the levers, and the politicians’ strings deep in the background.
I may be mistaken…
Steve
barber2
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:12pmOh, Lord. Ryan actually mentioned that our rights come from God ? Ouch. The Big Brother Far Left Democrats whoa are largely atheists will have a COW over that idea ! Maybe that’s why they believe that Big Brother can take away our rights because they believe that Big Brother gives us our rights ! Scary times with Big Brother running the show….
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:17pmOne of the MAIN reason I am a republican…and as a woman…thank God I am an American!
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:20pmOur rights do come from a higher authority than man. I wish his voting record indicated he actually believed it.
Report Post »LibertyOrDeath12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:25pmGod doesn’t give you the right to kill people and the NDAA clearly gives them the right, so nope these men will never get my vote.
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 8:09pmLIBERTYORDEATH12: “God doesn’t give you the right to kill people and the NDAA clearly gives them the right, so nope these men will never get my vote.”
So you are going to vote for Obama who advocates the killing of millions of babies in abortion inlcuding partial birth abortion. Ever watch one? Maybe you should. Maybe you should see the babies arms flaling around in pain as the doctor stabs it in the back of the neck as it is coming out, even late term. And watch as the little arms and legs hang over the sides of his hands and little body parts strewn aroung. All in the name of a woman’s right to choose. A woman made her choice when she had sex. God would never advocate anyone with these views. Read the Bible!
Report Post »LibertyOrDeath12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:20pm@Faith1029 – No Obama wants to Kill Americans too. Stop acting like a hypocrite. I don’t care about your stupid solgan. “ Anybody but Obama”. It’s a joke just like you. I’m writing in Jesus Christ.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:12pmtell that to the Islamaphobic Neo Cons taking away our rights in order to catch their imaginary enemy.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:19pmhttp://www.memrijttm.org/
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:26pmDevine,
Followed your link. Yep. Understood. The world has ALWAYS had bad people in it. If you believe that your rights come from God then the proportion of bad people in the world STILL isn’t justification for taking away the rights from innocent Americans to provide some sort of fantasy blanket of protection against a bunch of morons in pajamas. You want to keep us safe? Give me back my rights, more specifically the 1st amendment. It is political correctness that is going to get us all killed, not my crotch in an airport or my google search history.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:40pmThere is no problem here. You can believe our rights come from an all-knowing perfect God who made us in his image….Or you can believe our rights come from our humanity.
Either way, you arrive at the same point – which is that we are all equal and have inherent rights that cannot be violated by people or government
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:14pm@Soybomb
Correct. The key point is that a “right” is not somthing that can be granted or taken away by human authority. It just is.
An abstract independent of human intervention is also a stumbling block to liberal/socialistic thought. It’s an ugly eyesore that gets in the way of their perfect utopia. Faith in the existence of these “rights” have to be the first thing to go, which is why socialists need an “emergency” or a fearful event worthy of giving up those rights for safety.
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:09pmTo add psycho-dribble on top of psycho-dribble, did you guys notice there’s an Ayn Rand University of Objectivism? What do you think a world of objectivists would look like? Each person with 2 fingers down the others’ throats? Something like that?
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:15pmSpeaking of psycho-dribble, you are the poster child. Thanks for playing mental gymnastics, you win! 10.0! Go team zombie!
Report Post »patricius
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:30pm*psychobabble
Report Post »watersRpeople
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:09pmIf people really believed their rights come from God and not men, then people would notice when certain individuals just up and dump their careers and make a Beeline for Washington. You don’t think they come from God.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:09pmA vote for Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, or no vote at all is a vote for O and company. Thank you in advance from the Obama Truth Team.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63Sdfs1ZPxs&list=FLSmQ4vXrLWuje8UmQ6ekQ9g&index=57&feature=plpp_video
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:11pmalmost anything is better than a kleagle from the lds cult.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:17pmI’m not going to vote for anyone that believes the president can have Americans kidnapped and sent away for ever, tortured or killed without due process based solely on the SUSPICION they are a terrorist.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:20pmThank you comrade, your gulag is waiting for you.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:22pm@DivineProvidence,
What if the things that you care about most are going to remain unchanged under both candidates? How do you reconcile that? You think you’re scaring people like me with a second Obama term. Yes, that scares the daylights out of me. He’s fiscally a wreck and has no regard for liberty. But, a Romney term doesn’t get government to stop taking my liberty. His resume says otherwise. A Romney term doesn’t stop the Fed from robbing me blind. And a Romney term doesn’t remove the yoke of slavery for my posterity. A second Romney term doesn’t undo NDAA / Patriot Act. There will still be GIANT server farms (I work 3 blocks from one) collecting terabytes of information on Americans and paid for by the people who are getting spyed upon. That doesn’t go away. I want to be free fiscally and politically. I want that for my children. NEITHER OPTION DOES THAT!
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:23pmGood point. I see what you mean. Mitt doesn’t stand a chance. In order for him to have even a dying gasp- to even seem relevant, he has to have every old crotchety white guy come out of the retirement home and vote against his own best interests, because, well… that’s the only demographic to which he appeals.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:24pmAt the same time, the democrats tell their folks that a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Romney. So really a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Obama AND Romney???
Cannot follow that stupid logic. Only a vote for Obama is a vote for Obama. As far as I am concerned, a vote for Romney is a vote for the status quo
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:25pmReal change does not happen overnight. 100+yrs of progressive policies do not get peeled away over night. Get a grip and get real. We will hold Romney and Ryan accountable while they are in our White House!
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:46pm@Devine,
I beg to differ on the timing. History has shown that often times these tipping points happen overnight. Literally. For example, Kristalnacht. We don’t have 100 years to unwind this. Our debt grows by the second. We have deficits in perpituity. We have unfunded liabilities 3 times the GDP of planet earth. We don’t have time to play games and nibble at the edges but allowing 99% of everything else to march on. When the house of cards comes down, and does anyone disagree that it won’t at this rate…it will be an overnight change that none of us imagined we’d ever see.
Don’t know how old you are, but did you ever think when you were a kid that what you’d read in 1984 not only would be possible, but that the United States of America would EXPAND upon that? Orwell wrote that to scare us and our government used it like an instruction manual called Police State for Dummies.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:48pmAnd real change will not happen at all unless you demand it
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:08pmWhen did Romney cast his vote for NDAA? And is there any proof he went to the Bilderberg meeting? Was Paul Ryan there also?
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:13pmOWS demands things. America is not a direct democracy we are a Constitutional representative republic. We cannot un-seed the roots of Progressivism overnight. What part of that do you not understand?
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:16pmRomney didn’t vote for the NDAA. He said he would have voted for it as is in the Fox debate.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUZoPnYjx0g
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:20pmIf Obama and the democrats can use our representative government to sweep in change overnight and trash the Constitution…….Then surely pro-Constitution folks can sweep into power and overhaul the government
Incrementalism will NEVER get it done. This is why the Tea Party was so determined (initially) to not be consumed by the republican party
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:29pmSoy that sounds reasonable using the logic of inverse but in reality if a supportive congress is not there then one would have to turn into what he despises to make the change.
Report Post »mr.goodvibe
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 3:31pmSoy- And would’nt the tea party taking over the republican party be a long term solution opposed to a third party in this desperate time.
Report Post »Individualism
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:22pmlook in a way Obama would be better than Romney, its likely a GOP take over of the senate so Obama wouldn’t be able to do anything crazy. would you rather wait 8 instead of 4 for someone better? i don‘t and many others wouldn’t. Also the president gets more blame the from public than anyone else including congress despite the approval rating so wouldn’t him being around help fuel the liberty or tea party movement to a greater level? i think so.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:37pm@SOYBOMB
At the same time, the democrats tell their folks that a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Romney. So really a vote for Gary Johnson is a vote for Obama AND Romney??? Cannot follow that stupid logic.
—
It’s not stupid. If a Dim defects and votes for Johnson (unlikely), he will take a vote away from Obama.
Same logic applies to Romney, except that turncoat Johnson used the Republican platform to jump-start his lackluster campaign, so technically speaking, the vote loss will be for Repubs not Dims. However, Paulists had no intention of supporting anyone besides RP, so we cannot realistically count Johnson votes as a loss. In other words, the RP team staged a political ruse; you were never on our side.
=> “Only a vote for Obama is a vote for Obama”
—-
That is true in the literal sense, but elections don’t work that way. Historically, inKumbents have a huge advantage over their opponents. Only two have lost in recent history (not counting Gerald Ford who was not elected). In Barack’s case, you also have to consider that he will cheat. Therefore, not voting for Romney tips the scales even further to Obama’s side; it’s voting by default for Obama.
Look, SOY, I’m not counting on you sheeple. Just want you to stop rationalizing and face up to your actions.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 10:23pmfix the election laws if you are threatened by 3rd party
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 1:28amKRYPTONITE wrote: “Look, SOY, I’m not counting on you sheeple. Just want you to stop rationalizing and face up to your actions”
Yet you’ve presented no compelling argument to justify your claim. The “voting for x candidate is really a vote for y” is not an argument but a tactic to stifle debate. A vote for candidate x is always and only a vote for candidate x, because the purpose of voting is to cast a ballot for the candidate YOU suppport. Not for the guarantee of a win, which is impossible to predict. If YOUR purpose to vote is to cast an “anti-Obama” ballot, then you have the incentive to cast it for whomever has the highest chance to win, regardless of his/her positions.
If a candidate loses, it is not because other candidates drew away votes, but because the losing candidate did not succeed in swaying enough voters to support them. The failure is solely their’s to accept.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 1:28am@SOYBOMB
Report Post »fix the election laws if you are threatened by 3rd party
——
Beep. Red herring.
kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:22pm@ACIDOVORAX
Well, arguments generally have a purpose – call it “tactic,” if you will. You may not find the argument convincing or agree with the intent, but it remains an argument nonetheless. That said, the above formulation does not represent my argument. My construct is:
given X, if -X then Y
AND
given Y, if -Y then X
WHERE X and Y denote registered Democrats and Republicans, respectively.
The argument then reads:
If a Democrat does not vote Democrat (does not vote at all or votes for a third party*), by default he votes Republican.
Likewise, if a Republican does not vote Republican (does not vote at all or votes for a third party*), by default he votes Democrat.
*Switching your vote R D is not being considered, as results are obvious.
The caveat in this case is that the Ron Paul crowd NEVER WAS Republican. Therefore, in the strictest sense, the above argument cannot be applied to you. It is applicable only on moral grounds, given that you connivers availed yourselves of the Republican platform to launch first one, and subsequently a second failed candidate. (CONT.)
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:46pm@ACIDOVORAX (CONT.)
…the purpose of voting is to cast a ballot for the candidate YOU suppport. Not for the guarantee of a win, which is impossible to predict.
—-
The purpose of voting is to cast a ballot for the candidate you support, IN ORDER TO GIVE HIM/HER THE BEST CHANCE OF WINNING THE RACE. Nobody is saying victory is guaranteed (although Barack may be thinking along those lines). I was clear in pointing out that I am NOT discussing the MORAL issue of voting for a candidate who cannot win against a wannabe dictator. In fact, my sole purpose was to correct SOYs confused interpretation of the argument in question, not to argue its morality. SOY — and apparently you — find anything and everything besides RP/Johnston-come-lately, stupid, incomprehensible and reprehensible.
=> “If a candidate loses, it is not because other candidates drew away votes, but because the losing candidate did not succeed in swaying enough voters to support them.”
—–
Those are two different perspectives as to cause, but the effect is still the same. The candidate did not get the number of votes he needed to win.
If you want to debate cause, my view is that there is usually more than one reason why a candidate loses an election. Sometimes there is an overriding factor, or more realistically, an overriding PERCEPTION of why he lost.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 3:57pmDon’t shoot me because I misspelled Johnson. I’m tired and a terrible proofreader. :)
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:31pmKRYPTONITE wrote: :The argument then reads:
If a Democrat does not vote Democrat (does not vote at all or votes for a third party*), by default he votes Republican.
Likewise, if a Republican does not vote Republican (does not vote at all or votes for a third party*), by default he votes Democrat.”
What ballot has “Democrat” or “Republican” as your choices? None. It has individuals listed who have “D” or “R” attached to them. In hyper-partisan world, your argument works because Party is all that matters. For others, it is a false construct.
“The caveat in this case is that the Ron Paul crowd NEVER WAS Republican. Therefore, in the strictest sense, the above argument cannot be applied to you. It is applicable only on moral grounds, given that you connivers availed yourselves of the Republican platform to launch first one, and subsequently a second failed candidate.”
“Connivers”?!?! Since I am not running for office, nor have I been active for any candidate, your ad hominem rings hollow. As for Paul running as a Republican, if you don’t like this, then have the rules changed that would specify which positions one must hold to be considered “Republican”.
Report Post »acidovorax
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 6:41pmKRYPTONITE wrote: “The purpose of voting is to cast a ballot for the candidate you support, IN ORDER TO GIVE HIM/HER THE BEST CHANCE OF WINNING THE RACE.”
This is statistically impossible. YOU and I and any other individual have NO effect on the outcome of any election. Only the collective ballots affect the election, not any individual. If you vote under the assumption that YOUR ballot is affecting the final outcome, you are fooling yourself. But since so many vote strictly as “anybody but”, then their incentive is to test the winds of opinion and see who is the flavor of the day. The vote becomes pure group-think.
“SOY — and apparently you — find anything and everything besides RP/Johnston-come-lately, stupid, incomprehensible and reprehensible.”
Your weak attempts at ad hominems are sad. Present any posts I have made that support this assertion. You can’t, because I have made no such claim or insinuation.
Report Post »kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 11:10pm@ACIDOVORAX
For others, it is a false construct.
—
A candidate’s party base is a false construct?? Also, you appear to be unaware of the current state of American politics. The country has become polarized, thanks to Obama. But you keep missing the point. My argument always works, because I am stating facts in re the process. Presidential candidates run under a party banner, so whoever wins, wins for his or her party. Look at any history book or google any POTUS. They are always identified by party. You are splitting hairs because you hate our two-party system. Try being objective when you analyze situations. Like most RP sheeple, you are out of touch with reality.
=> “Connivers”?!?! Since I am not running for office…
–
Don’t take it personally; I was referring to the whole not the part.
=> …have the rules changed that would specify which positions one must hold to be considered “Republican”.
Report Post »—-
The “rule” retort is getting a bit tiresome. It’s not about rules. Rather, it’s a code of ethics that principled candidates abide by. The Party offers a platform for all candidates to compete, and the candidates in turn respect the electoral process by endorsing the nominee.
kryptonite
Posted on August 13, 2012 at 11:28pm@ACIDOVORAX
Only the collective ballots affect the election, not any individual.
—
That’s true, but collective ballots are not synonymous with collective vote. The “collective” only exists in commie countries where an individual’s vote IS worthless. Everyone votes collectively for the commie candidate, period. We affect the outcome indirectly. States award electoral votes based on the popular vote, and in most states the winner takes all.
=>Your weak attempts at ad hominems are sad.
—–
LOL, what ad hominems? I quoted SOY’s words/sentiment.
=> Present any posts I have made that support this assertion. You can’t, because I have made no such claim or insinuation.
—
Don’t get all sanctimonious, now. In your very first sentence you ascribed to me an argument I never made, and then made a cursory judgment as to its validity and intent (and I quote): “…is not an argument but a tactic to stifle debate.” Are we having a bout of selective sensitivity?
HAGN.
Report Post »soap on a rope
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:08pmAdding Paul Ryan was a great move on Romney’s part. Now I’m excited. This guy knows his stuff!
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:14pmWell, he certainly knows how to fool people that don‘t look at politicians’ voting records. At least if you believe the 1st, 4th, 6th, 7th, 9th, & 10th amendment rights come from a higher authority than man.
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:07pmJohn Locke? Don’t you mean Ayn Rand?
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:45pmHi leftist. Obama Truth Team thanks you in advance. Individualism is better than collectivism, just ask the 100+million dead from the hands of the Communists.
http://twitchy.com/2012/08/11/the-left-falsely-portrays-paul-ryan-as-an-ayn-rand-devotee/
Report Post »SolitudeBliss
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 9:09pmI hope you’re joking. Ayn Rand was an atheist.
FYI – Although Atlas Shrugged is a brilliant book she advocated not allowing any group to influence your thinking.René Descartes wrote in 1637 “I think therefore I Am”, Ayn wrote in Atlas Shrugged “I Am therefore I’ll Think”. You are a free human being, think for yourself.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:07pmAmen. I believe EVERYTHING he just said. He is DEAD RIGHT. The problem is that what he says and what he does are two different things.
His voting record is a MESS and it certainly has not demonstrated a devotion to liberty. To hear someone talk about liberty while voting for Patriot Act and NDAA makes me cringe. If you believe Locke then the taxation without representation conclusion ultimately bubbles up at some point. He pleaded for TARP. He essentially lobbied to have future generations born as slaves to pay off criminals today. How is this free? How does that reflect Natural Law?
He either doesn’t believe what he is saying or he believes what he is saying and has no backbone to vote for it. Either way, I can’t reconcile that.
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:18pmTough questions — I can’t explain any of those. Cept maybe he is bought and paid-for by the same set of criminals who are condemning our children.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:18pmYeah, he knows the right things to say to us. Unfortunately he thinks we‘re stupid and haven’t bothered to check out his actions.
Report Post »GoodStuff
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:44pm“To hear someone talk about liberty while voting for Patriot Act and NDAA makes me cringe”
That’s because your a RuPaul kook.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:59pm@Goodstuff,
Such a nice little sheep you are. There are a few that I won’t regret getting the boot of tyranny on their throat. You’d be in that group. Sacrificing liberty for a false sense of security. You feel proud when you see the TSA goons pulling old war veterans out of wheelchairs?
Report Post »mrsuperpat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:00pmSure sounds good, but it’s just rhetoric. Look at there records. Would be better if they flipped the ticket, but whatever. With the Navy backdrop he forgot to tell them we need more wars for the troops.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:11pmPeace through strength. “A Time For Choosing” by Ronald Reagan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJGb_gg4Cuw&list=FLSmQ4vXrLWuje8UmQ6ekQ9g&index=60&feature=plpp_video
History repeating.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:52pmJohn Locke said that?
That detail was CONVENIENTLY left out of my history textbook.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:58pmMaybe this is why it was left out of your history book: http://www.deliberatedumbingdown.com/MomsPDFs/DDDoA.sml.pdf
Read A Miracle That Changed The World: The 5000 Year Leap and also I suggest reading John Locke or stay dumbed down. Your choice.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:58pmI sounded like a troll. What I meant was that my friggin’ history teacher never clarified that John Locke believed natural laws are Of God. He just said they were of “nature”
So John Locke was a druid? It boggles the mind how much I’ve been led astray during my public education days.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:59pmi hope you arent getting all your information from government school textbooks
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:01pmDeclaration signer Benjamin Rush said that Locke was not only “an oracle as to the principles . . . of government” 18 (an “oracle” is a wise authority whose opinions are not questioned) but that in philosophy, he was also a “justly celebrated oracle, who first unfolded to us a map of the intellectual world,” 19 having “cleared this sublime science of its technical rubbish and rendered it both intelligible and useful.” 20
18. Benjamin Rush, The Selected Writings of Benjamin Rush, Dagobert D. Runes, editor (New York: The Philosophical Library, Inc., 1947), p. 78, “Observations on the Government of Pennsylvania.” (Return)
19. Benjamin Rush, Medical Inquiries and Observations (Philadelphia: T. Dobson, 1793), Vol. II, p. 17, “An Inquiry into the Influence of Physical Causes upon the Moral Faculty.” (Return)
20. Benjamin Rush, Medical Inquiries and Observations (Philadelphia: Thomas Dobson, 1794), Vol. I, p. 332, “Duties of a Physician.”
Report Post »woodyee
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:02pmIt was left out because to the Left, it’s an inconvenient truth. When my child was in the 6th grade, I looked at his Social studies book to see what it was that he’s being taught. In the back of the book was listed The Bill of Rights. It, too, had been re-written for the convenience of the Left.
It stated flatly that the 2nd Amendment applied only to the military and the police, completely ignoring the fact that historically and as attributed by the writers, the people ARE the militia, being well regulated to mean [well trained in the use of arms]. Needless to say, I brought it to his teachers attention (deaf ears) and taught my son accordingly.
Report Post »The_Cabrito_Goat
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:05pmI will purchase that book, actually. Thank you, I just hope it’s not a kajillion pesos
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:13pmThe book is free if you just click the link, it’s a pdf.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:17pmFrom what I can tell Locke was Christian most of his life with some stints as a deist as he grappled with some Christ issues. That’s really not what we are talking about though. I do smile at the irony that Locke was essentially one of the first modern version of libertarians…Classical Liberals.
But the thinkers of the day, in all were quite remarkable. None of them resembled today. Even what we‘d call modern liberals wouldn’t recognize Hobbs or Jeremy Bentham…and vice versa I might add. And conservatism has certainly parted ways with Locke and Adam Smith and Thomas Paine…all of whom were more of the now despised libertarian bent.
It is wonderful to try and watch people in the debate (myself included) try to find footing on the shoulders of the thinkers gone by.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:47pm@ THE_ CABRITO_ GOAT
Welcome to Progressive Revisionist History.
The Progressives have been rewriting History for
60+ years.an pretty much taken over School Text Books.
To Advance their Propaganda.Evolution,Global Warming an
The Founding Fathers were Evil, Slave Owning, Atheists.
Also read David Barton He explains History in a way that
Report Post »you never learned in School.
But should Have.
Look4DBigPicture
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:03pmAbout 4 years ago, I took a Philosophy class called morals and ethics, and the textbook we used conveniently left out Locke. Even though our research paper was to be about one of the philosophers we studied, I managed to insert a Locke quote in there somehow. To my surprise, I still got an A.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:52pmI appreciate Paul Ryan for his liberty message yesterday. Unfortunately, his record is far from liberty. Similar to the far left, those of us on the far right can “hope for change” through people like Paul Ryan
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:02pmFar right? You should be in a KKK forum.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:18pmand it sounds like you should be in a huffpo forum. Far right has nothing to do with racism. On one side is complete control by central government – on the other is little or no control by central government. You should open up your 5,000 year leap book you just referenced (actually, they have it backwards – but we have to modify it for today’s perspective). I would tell you the page # but i lent mine out
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:30pmHey Divine..
Report Post »I don’t think so.. The LIBERALS secretly love the KKK…
That’s why all of you libs worshiped Senator Byrd..
But now the libs are caught up in a lovers quarrel between
the KKK and the Muslim Brotherhood …
How do they disown their hero Robert Byrd and the KKK ..?.
While trying to woo their new puke crush..The Muslim Brotherhood..
Tell me…What’s a lying hypocrite to do…?
DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:41pmI’m not a leftist. Your diatribe is befitting your leftist thought pattern of complete psychobabble.
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:10pmYou guys can’t tell the Players without a Program.
just for the sake of prospective.
I’m a Ronald Reagan, Barry Goldwater Conservative also TEA Party
Soybomb is to the Right of Me, Ron Paul Supporter but not Crazy.
an no way KKK .
Devine is no way in hell a Liberal
an Sawbuck is Confused
Report Post »flipper1073
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:20pmI forgot WATERS ARE PEOPLE
Report Post »I’m Convinced HESJUSTTIM an bat crap Crazy
Dont even try to Converse with him it will only upset
you an serves no purpose.
Copo
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:22pmTechnically believing in every really far right idea is racist, because that was the way people used to think. I consider myself mostly really far right, besides the whole “whites are better” theory. (the poor treatment of women began with the enlightenment, before that they were treated as equals to men, with each having a different role (ie the husband brings in money, wife raises and grows the family together as one unit, husband gets involved in city/town/village affairs, wife runs the family business ect.)
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:26pm@Divineprovidence1776
Flipper1073 got it right… My sincerest apologies ..!
Report Post »I cant even begin to explain the process that ended
with my accusing you of being a liberal and then
my idiotic rant that followed.. Unbelievable.. sorry again.
historyguy48
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:46pmWell lets see now. We can take a chance that Romney and Ryan aren’t b/s ing us, or we can stick with our hate America, communist dictator I call Dear Leader after the North Korean dictator by the same name.
Report Post »Such a choice. It’s kind of like choosing between a steak dinner, or frying up something your dog left in the grass to eat.
RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:53pmI agree with the latter but not the former.
A really bad salisbury steak maybe?
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:55pmIt will be easier to hold Romney and Ryan accountable than Obama and his leftist radicals. Time to choose. Freedom or Tyranny.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:56pm@Historyguy
Report Post »So you are saying they are Republican version of hope and change??? ironic
LibertyOrDeath12
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 5:27pmOr you can vote third party. This Country isn’t based on two parties. You cowards created that.
Report Post »Mandors
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:44pmGreat choice. Clean cut and competent. Let’s run with that ticket.
Hip, inexperienced and clueless hasn’t worked for Barry.
Report Post »tekknyne3
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:12pmSo that’s how you judge a VP candidate? On his haircut? Oh wow that’s a new one.
Report Post »DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:41pmAnd can the liberties of a nation be thought secure if we have lost the only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? -Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia (Philadelphia: Matthew Carey, 1794), Query XVIII, p. 237
John Quincy Adams’ pronouncement that:
Report Post »The Declaration of Independence [was] . . . founded upon one and the same theory of government . . . expounded in the writings of Locke.
Steelhead
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:41pmwill this whip the Tea B’s into a frenzy? USA USA USA , lol
Report Post »Twinspeedr
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:52pmYeah funny how some truth and advocacy of time-tested political philosophy will do that when the entire world establishment has devolved into a solid stream of lies, deceptions and political fallacy, eh?
Report Post »burnteye86
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:21pmNo. Obummer did that in ‘08. LOL
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:39pmAhhh..the single defining principle that seperates liberal and conservative philosophy.
This is truly the split in the branch, and the reason there will never be peace or resolution between us.
It should surprise no one that with such foundational differences a compromise is at best temporary, and the battle between the two systems of thought will go on until one destroys, or exiles the other.
As much as I wish Glenn Beck’s peaceful revolution to prevail, I doubt such opposing forces can meet without blood.
Report Post »irarangan
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:03pmGlenn loves you because you hate
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:17pm@IRARANGAN
Wow…so profound.
And wrong.
jus’ sayin.
Report Post »Rothbardian_in_the_Cleve
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:33pmDon’t let him bug you Ranger.
I do think Glenn is naive on how this plays out. The complete polar differences between the two sides prohibit a co-existence. You can’t co-exist with someone who views you as a slave. However, I don’t think there can be total victory either. I don’t see the other side co-existing in a world without government taking care of them and their failures.
I know we don’t always agree on things, but a Balkanization of sorts could work. It would involve minimal bloodshed I think. Do you really think the statists would repeat the civil war? I don’t. If they did, they’d lose. I’m rambling and this conversation is much better had over a beer.
Report Post »RANGER1965
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:56pm@ROTHBARDIAN,
You’re probabally right. But do we have to give them both coasts?
Report Post »breakobamanow
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:24pm@Ranger well said! You just stated an all important truth. What agreement has darkness with the light, or truth with a lie? Now put that in a Biblical perspective and we have the ultimate battle being played out here on earth. We all know who wins. Instead of choosing sides controlled by men which are both products of sin, pride, selfishness, covetousness, envy and all the other sins of man, choose God in your life, and give praise that His will be done.
Report Post »MODEL82A1
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:08pmRANGER, In IRAR’s programming, “Hate” is any expressed disagreement with the policies of the Radical Left. Wear it as a badge of honor, right next to your Ranger tab.
Report Post »All Pro
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 12:36pmIt‘s to bad Mr Ryan doesn’t believe a word of it. His own voting record betrays him.
Report Post »http://thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/12432-veep-pick-paul-ryan-is-no-conservative
barber2
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:03pmAll Pro ( short for “Propaganda ” ) Here we go ; Obama’s Divide the Dumb Republicans Spiel….. ( Shhhhh: we are supposed to be too dumb to see what they are doing. )
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 1:26pm@barber
Report Post »Are you saying republicans are dumb and not able to make up their own minds???
Twinspeedr
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:00pmAll I need to know id that he is not Joe Biden or Hilary Clinton. We can vote Romney & Ryan out in 2016 if they betray our trust. The system is so broken right now that in order to stay in the game politically you have to “go along to get along”. This is a bankrupt policy when there is no direction coming from the top as we had with Bush Jr.
Ryan and Romney are far from great candidates, but part of that is because they are politicians. Politicians adapt to the situation such that they keep the support that will allow their career to continue. Ryan knows the truth about history and political philosophy, if he and Romney were to win and fail to push for the reforms that they are advocating they lose in 2016.
Unless you advocate unpinning the whole system and you’re willing to suffer through untold years of martial law and/or civil war we have to be willing to accept incremental improvements. We are going to have to do the hard civic work that we neglected to do over the past 50 years (plus some) in the coming decades if we want non-violent reform. In other words; keep doing what we have been doing and just keep the politicians feet to the fire, regardless of party affiliation.
We are under no obligation to re-elect anyone…
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 2:07pm@Twinspeedr
“We can vote Romney & Ryan out in 2016 if they betray our trust.”
I have seen many people say that but I dont think you have thought it over. Can you tell me exactly how that is going to work? If Romney wins in 2012, he will run again in 2016 and there will be no primary. So would you be voting for the democrats in 2016 in order to “vote Romney & Ryan out”???
Report Post »MODEL82A1
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 4:17pmALL PRODICTABLE (INDI, JUST, SOY, et al), if you are not a 19 year old getting ready to enter the first semester of your sophomore year at some tiny community college while living in your childhood bedroom, your level of political, philosophical and economic understanding makes you indistinguishable from one.
Report Post »soybomb315_II
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 7:45pm@model
why are you always incapable of arguing logic and facts?
you are the worst type – obnoxious, demeaning, close minded, hating, and uninformed
Report Post »LameLiberals
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:26pmDEPRESSING!!!
I just googled everything you wrong about Ryan and it is true.
SHXXXXXXXXXXXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »LameLiberals
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:36pmCorrection. Everything you “WROTE” about Ryan. Auto spell check stinks sometimes.
Report Post »Brother Winston Smith
Posted on August 12, 2012 at 6:55pmGOOD GOD ALMIGHTY, I GOT THROUGH TO SOMEONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »I’m done for the day. Good evening all.