Overestimating Global Warming? Scientists Say New Map of Greenland Needs More Ice
- Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:11pm by
Liz Klimas
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Over the last couple weeks, climate scientists have been trying to get ice added back onto the map of Greenland in the latest version of the Times Comprehensive Atlas of the World. Glaciologists came out in force stating the publisher exaggerated the rate of glacial melt and that scientists were not consulted about the figures.
(Image: Daily Mail)
These glaciologists report that Greenland’s melt should be more like 0.1 percent as opposed to 15 percent from 1999 to 2011, which was stated in publisher’s news release. At first HarperCollins stood by the accuracy of its map. The Guardian reported the publisher as saying, “We are the best there is … Our data shows that it has reduced by 15 percent. That’s categorical.”
But only a day later, HarperCollins’ subsidiary Collins Geo issued an apology saying that the press release with the 15 percent reduction was wrong, although they did not acknowledge that the map itself was inaccurate.
The BBC (via the New York Times) later reported that the publisher was working with scientists to redo the map of Greenland. The Times has more:
[Sheena Barclay, the managing director of Collins Geo,] promised a new, “much more detailed map of Greenland that will represent more effectively the ice cover as it is.”
Asked if by “effectively” she meant “accurately,” Ms. Barclay replied, “It’s a case of actually how you define the ice itself, and at the scales at which we show Greenland it’s actually quite difficult to achieve that.”
The Times reported that climate scientists were especially miffed by this mistake after a similar over exaggeration of glacial melt in the Himalayan Mountains in a 2007 United Nation’s spurred global warming skepticism in 2010:
“[This] was a case where, really, the community came together really fast with both barrels blazing,” said Mark Serreze, director of the snow and ice center in Colorado. “Everyone had some real bad memories of this whole fiasco that had to do with Himalayan glaciers. No one wanted to see that again.”
It was speculated by glaciologist Theodore Scambos that the HarperCollins’ cartographer used data from the U.S. Snow and Ice Data Center showing ice thickness instead of ice cover. In an email to the Times, Barclay said this was not the case.
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Comments (131)
NuffSaid
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:06pmIt takes little effort to be stupid but this media crowd seems to have re-doubled theirs…
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:56pmIt‘s all that darn sun’s fault. Solar energy is melting ice.
Report Post »ishka4me
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 3:13pmlove it when they show sprin/summer melt with ice crashing as evidenceof global warming. They now see ice growing so they call it climate change. climate change is safe because the climate always changes. as little as 10,000 years ago, new york city was under thousands of feet of ice. it is like the medical quacks of the 19th centry. a drought is evidence of warning, lots of snow is evidence of climate change, lots of rain is evidence of global warming and colder winters is evidence of climate change. it is one big joke to the regular person. Every year they predict a big hurricane season in the hopes one year they get itright and say”see, i told you so’
Report Post »jzs
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 4:18pmCome on guys, virtually every post on this thread was, and remains an attack on climate science and scientists. The thread is about the almanac being wrong, not climate scientists. I only commented on that fact (quote:”It seems that anyone involved in the greenies global warming scheme are liars.”)
But of course, that’s why the thread was posted. For all you to pull out your ill informed views on climate science, the one’s you got from Rush Limbaugh, noted non-scientist and anti-intellectual.
Report Post »Charybdis
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:06pmSorry JZS, but you’re way behind the curve on this. 70 climate scientists involved with the IPCC recently took the WaPo to task for claiming no reputable climate scientists disputed the AGW claims. These were scientists whose work was misrepresented at the UN, caliming thbey had all agreed with the AGW conclusions, when nothing could have been further from the truth. From the phony “Hockey-stick” graph, to the faulty temperature stations, to the false Himalaya glacier claims, to this, the whole idea of human effects on climate change have been a farce from beginning to end. This whole debate will one day be an embarassing foot-note in the history books, with the greenies looking like to fools they are.
Report Post »Servant Of YHVH
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:13pm@nuffsaid
Report Post »Actually I think that they quadrupled it.
HD Veteran
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:25pmCan Al Gore help us put out the sun?!?
Gee, I hope so . . .
Report Post »jzs
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:35pmCharybdis, mind sending me a link to your statement that, “70 climate scientists involved with the IPCC recently took the WaPo to task for claiming no reputable climate scientists disputed the AGW claims.”? I am not finding that. Did they all sign a letter or something? Write a paper? Anyway, if you‘d post that I’ll be a position to evaluate their comments.
Report Post »hypnos
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:55pmHey jzs have you read cool it or read Richard Lindzen prof of climatology at MIT. you understand it is not there is climate change but how man affects climate. Dr. Linden explains how so called climate experts used an empirical climate models and statistical manipulation to grossly exragerate and role in climate change.
Report Post »SpeckChaser
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 5:57pm@JZS
I think you are taking on too many conversations at once and your post quality is starting to suffer.
JZS apparently never heard anything pertaining to the proposed salt ban in New York and arrogantly said all of the following.
“Spec, I don’t know the story there, but that is an absurd joke, a parody, which you bought completely…I’m saying that the proposed legislation was a joke of some kind? Would you look again for an actual law banning salt, not some goofy proposal designed, probably, to provoke people like you?”
I provided him with the following.
http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/bill/A10129-2009
Here is also one from MSNBC, guess they got “duped” as well.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30352252/
So JZS, the info is right in front of you. Are you going to try to turn “black” into “white”, or for this example “white” into an “absurd joke,” provided you want to believe it enough?
Report Post »AmericablessGod
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 8:28pmEventually, the truth will set us free from this fraudulent hoax once called “man made global warming” and now referred to “climate change”. Where are the rising oceans? Where are the flooded coastlines? What about that inconvenient truth that the southern ice cap is thickening?
These fools will one day be proven to be wrong again, and hopefully before the cap and tax scheme makes Al Gore rich and all of us poor!
Report Post »jzs
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 9:48pmHey Spec. With regard to your comment that the quality of my posts is suffering, I can only say that at least at some point there was some quality in my posts, which as more than be said about the average post here. Present company excluded of course!
As I recall with the salt issue, you made the statement that salt had been banned somewhere or another, and I challenged you saying something like, “There are laws banning salt in restaurants? Where would that be? Seriously, where is salt banned from restaurants? Link?”
Now you post a link from two years ago of some Democrat proposing legislation to ban the addition of salt in New York restaurant, not any actual legislation. Was it even voted on? So I’ll ask you again, as I ask before, “Would you look again for an actual law banning salt, not some goofy proposal designed, probably, to provoke people like you?”
Seriously, look me in the eye and say that you’re worried about “the government” banning salt from being added to food in restaurants. That’s silly, irrational even. If you don’t think it is, you‘ll sure get your money’s worth from GBTV and he’ll tell you to hoard salt. That’s an absurd joke. Worry about something else friend.
I did follow your link also. Interesting article, although nothing about the ban on salt from your earlier post.
hypnos, no I didn’t know about Lindzen but know more now. Thanks. We’ll debate another time, although the quality of my posts may be l
Report Post »jzs
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 11:25pmSeriously Spec, I love a good argument and enjoy our conversations. But debating whether or not salt is banned in New York (it’s not by the way) or whether people are being interred in FEMA concentration camps (uh, they’re not), or whether it’s way cool to say the First Lady is fat and that her initiative to educate Americans about childhood obesity, childhood diabetes is stupid and worthy of hateful mockery (it’s not) is really not my cup of tea.
Yes, I’ll ridicule the FEMA camp believers, the birthers, the truthers and the First Lady haters. But there is a legtimate debate to be had about what’s going on in the country, and an examination of how a person’s values determine their opinions and their choices.
If you want to tell everyone that Democrats have banned salt from New York restaurants, go ahead, even though that’s false. But if you want to force New York schools to provide two servings of lard with the fries based on your interpretation of the Constitution, then I’ll give you a fight on that.
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on September 27, 2011 at 9:25am@KickinBack
I think you missed the line above that the loss of glacial ice was negligible.
Actually, the sun isn’t melting any ice.
Report Post »SpeckChaser
Posted on September 27, 2011 at 5:33pm@JZS
Its arguments like this that make me think posting is a waste of time. You are muddying the water over the salt issue. It’s a diversion. Our debate was why there is pushback on Michelle’s health program. You wouldn’t give evidence or state the reason you believe Repubs are against it. You did offer your “two cents” and hint around that republican think MO is fat and want kids unhealthy dying early.
I said they oppose regulating healthy eating backed up by stories covering the PROPOSED salt ban and the actual PROPOSED bill.
You claimed I said the bill passed which is untrue. I said, “like democratically PROPOSED (not passed) laws…making a law BANNING (not banned) salt at restaurant…oppose LEGISLATING good health”
Liberals have regulated, banned, Tran’s fat. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16051436/
You discounted the salt because it was a “silly proposed bill”. Would you think the same way if Repubs PROPOSED a pro-slavery bill? I guess you wouldn’t take issue with it as long as it doesn’t pass, right?
You said, “Why the anger and mockery about promoting a healthier diet with children…why do you and yours ridicule the idea?” Promoting it is great, regulating it is not. Although it has become a dead horse, I would still like to know if you have info backing up your claim repubs oppose it simply because MO is fat and they want kids dying early.
I believe the individual is responsible for choices we make. You believe governm
Report Post »pavepaws
Posted on September 27, 2011 at 6:22pmDon’t let facts get in the way of propaganda.
Report Post »randy
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:57pmGee, I just went to google earth…… and lo an behold, todays greenland ice coverage looks exactly like the 1999 map :) Go Figure.
Report Post »Blazer123
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:01pmremember how there were supposed to be 50 million “climate refugees” by 2010 due to rising seas? lol
Report Post »jzs
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:13pmI think everyone is slightly confused by this article. It was the publisher of the almanac that got the facts wrong, and the scientists who are making the correction. You got it backwards.
Yet another example of “black” being “white”, provided you want to believe it enough.
Report Post »randerson503
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:34pm@JZS: What the hell are you talking about? Neither Randy nor Blazer123 placed blame on the scientists. They just commented on the stupidity of various global warming alamist claims. And I agree with both of them. Did someone else blame the scientists? If so, reply and whine on thier post. Also, the term “scientist” is subjective. There are global warming “scientists” that got it wrong. Its probably where the publisher got their data. The glaciologists are coming out to correct the record. Specifics are the key.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:35pmActually, JZS, the Glaciologists were saying that Greenland melted FAR less than Climatologists were estimating. Either that, or the Climatologists are trying to shrink Greenland to prove their own theories…
Oh, wait, I believe evidence has already been shown of that…sorry.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:40pm@jzs
As usual, it is the comment posted by JZS that is an example of “black” being “white”. JZS, Saul Alinsky made that concept famous, buddy. Why do you think you can trick a site full of conservatives into believing your lies?
Anyway, the scandal is that both scientists AND media outlets are perpetrators of the hoax. In this case, the scientists were trying to avoid real damage to their credibility when it was so obviously easy to prove the information wrong. The flip of the issue is the media outlet, in its zeal to prove Global Warming/Cooling/Climactic-chicanery is true used “scientific estimates” from previous years to come up with their bogus map today.
Indeed, where are the 10′s of millions of climate refugees? Are the storms and weather conditions the “worst we’ve ever seen” in the history of the world? If my local weatherman can’t be accurate 10 days out, how can a college professor be accurate 50 years out?
Another case of a low-level socialist agitator trying to make “black” into “white”, or whatever the douchiness du jour is supposed to be.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:41pmPfft…once JZS drops a bomb, he rarely sticks around to look at the damage. That would be too much like taking responsibility for his own actions. I’d be shocked if anyone received a reply from him regarding this latest nonsense post.
Report Post »randerson503
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:56pm@Jaycen: I love “douchiness du jour”. May I use that line. It fits perfect into my arguments with my liberal friends.
Report Post »AvengerK
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 3:10pmRANDERSON…ignore JZS..he’s an incoherent, lefty troll. He just says “stuff” he doesn‘t care if there’s any basis to it or not. He’s the same idiot that tried to sell that Bush approved the Solyndra loan guarantee and I had to personally take the the idiot to school and tell him that the loan guarantee was rushed through and done in 2009..that‘s during OBAMA’S tenure. Just ignore the idiot.
Report Post »Jaycen
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 4:09pm@randerson503
Of course! I never trademark my speech. I’m a firm believer in sharing information as much as possible. Now, if someone gives you money for that specific phrase, I’d appreciate a small percentage, but we can work that out later.
Actually, it’s been my personal mission to bring “douche” in all of its forms back to the popular lexicon. It’s a fantastic insult, and yet, it’s simply the French word for “to rinse”, which is really quite harmless when you consider it.
Report Post »Exrepublisheep
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 6:04pm@JZS As usual, no one brings in any facts to argue with you. Name calling, spit balls and spite. The article says it was SCIENTISTS who pointed out the flaw in the map.
Report Post »Salamander
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 11:39pmWhat is NOT so funny are these new bird homogenizers, called Wind Farms!
Report Post »geonj
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:55pm“Van Jones is founding president of Green For All and a senior fellow with the Center for American Progress. He is also a Time Magazine 2008 Environmental Hero, one of Fast Company’s 12 Most Creative Minds of 2008, and the New York Times bestselling author of The Green Collar Economy: How One Solution Can Solve Our Two Biggest Problems (HarperOne 2008), which is endorsed by Nancy Pelosi, Tom Daschle, and Al Gore.” from a biography from harpercollins, van jones publisher.
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 3:19pmAnd if you dig deeper into his proposals those “Green Jobs” or the “Green Economy” is for the minority felon community. And other disadvantaged groups that can’t find jobs in the “Normal” economy.
Report Post »geonj
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:50pmjust more evidence that global warming is only real in the minds of those with an agenda promoting global warming. does al gore have a stake in harper collins?
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:02pmIndeed, this was just one more part of the false propagandistic carried out by the lunatics of the false global warming nonsense. It is propaganda pure and simple.
Report Post »MT_Headed
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:50pmOops, they forgot to divide by 100 to get percent.
Report Post »Anonymous T. Irrelevant
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:50pmSomeone, who had been praying to the greenie god, had an agenda.
Report Post »SREGN
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:48pmWhat I want to know is why we don’t see more “scientists” and politicians running around with their pants on fire.
Report Post »OhioRifleman
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:48pmNomex, engineered by the Space Program they just shut down. I’ll wager most of their rank is wearing Nomex.
Report Post »thegodfather
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:47pmI think liberals are cutting off huge sections of the Greenland Ice and hiding them to make it look like the ice melting.
Report Post »randerson503
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:58pmThey’re using the ice for their precious bottled water
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:45pmWould have been more credible if they just put a stranded polar bear on some random ice burghs. If they couldn’t find any they could have used photoshop to make it more realistic. Of course the ice melt can be atributed to the need for more ice with the TEA we are all drinking lol……
Report Post »SICKOFPCNESS
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:43pmThe love of money……
Report Post »vennoye
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:41pmPOOR, poor global warming investors………….they just CAN’T get the facts to support their hypothesis!!! Wonder how much money they are loosing?
Report Post »dpselfe
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:41pmAl Gore = EPIC FAIL
Report Post »Gary Fishaholic
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:40pmThe problem is that if they can‘t show loss of ice and global warming they have nothing to scare us with and generate money it’s all about the money.
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:45pmThey can dust off some polar bear shots……maybe I should send them a picture of the rug on my wall :)
Report Post »70S_KIDS_FIGHTING_SOCIALISM
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:39pmJust big brother telling lies lies and more lies.
- George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 3
“And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed-if all records told the same tale-then the lie passed into history and became truth. ‘Who controls the past’ ran the Party slogan, ‘controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.’
LIES SEGREGATION HATE SUFFERING STARVING WAR
LIES SEGREGATION HATE SUFFERING STARVING WAR
LIES SEGREGATION HATE SUFFERING STARVING WAR
TEA PARTY UNTOUCHABLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:31pmAl Gore just blew an aneurysm.
Report Post »Ookspay
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:36pmNah, that was just his fourth chakra being released.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:49pmOMG, LMAO!!!!! However, I think I just threw up a little….. ;)
Report Post »wordweaver
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:29pmThere is certainly enough here to suspect that someone at Collins Geo might have introduced false data into the update, but an interesting point is made at the end of the article. Any changes in ice coverage on Greenland are probably not as meaningful in the warming debate as changes in ice thickness all over the island.
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:28pmQuestion…. Why do they call a glacier coverd sub continent Greenland?
Report Post »Just curious.
ooooonooooo
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:40pmthe vikings called greenland greenland and iceland iceland because they did not want people to go to iceland because iceland is beautiful they wanted them to all go to greenland instead and keep beautiful iceland to themselves
Report Post »Gary Fishaholic
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:43pmGood question probably because Iceland was already taken?
Report Post »Le Sellers
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:50pmBlame Erik the Red and marketing.
At one point, not all that far in the past, Greenland was green and supported crops. Erik wanted to colonize the place, but wanted to keep what we know as Iceland (which had a better climate, even back then) for himself. So he named the one “Greenland” and the other “Iceland” as a ploy to interest people in the one and to shun the other.
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:57pmSo, Greenland was once green… So what happend? Global cooling?
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:24pmFrom sciencedaily.
The oldest ever recovered DNA samples have been collected from under more than a mile of Greenland ice, and their analysis suggests the island was much warmer during the last Ice Age than previously thought.
The DNA is proof that sometime between 450,000 and 800,000 years ago, much of Greenland was especially green and covered in a boreal forest that was home to alder, spruce and pine trees, as well as insects such as butterflies and beetles. So yes Global Cooling
Report Post »misteryuck
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:44pmGLOBAL COOLING!?!?!? Caused by?
Report Post »I know, I know, if anything it is cyclical…
However, If I had an agenda I wanted to push….
Hefsmaster
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 11:06pmMister yuck, gotta love him. going to have my aunt make me a giant Mr. yuck afghan. Anyways, You asked the most obvious question of all.
Why is it called greenland?
Well, the obvious has been lost on blaze readers. Kudos for rhetorical question of the day…
Report Post »STS2_SS_Iver
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:26pmMore Agenda 21. TIme sponsored. UN sanctioned.
Report Post »welloddyfriggindah
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:23pmThe science is settled……ready..set..NOW!
Report Post »120pages
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:23pmThis says it all: “The Times reported that climate scientists were especially miffed by this mistake…”
Report Post »cemerius
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:47pmtah tah how are they going to justify the Trillions they have stolen then?
Report Post »Ookspay
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:20pmImagine that, the progressive left got caught lying and conspiring to achieve their agenda of bringing down America. Say it isn’t so.
Report Post »ACLUHater
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:26pmThis is the religion of the left.
Report Post »Parkeralan
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:41pmI hear ya Ookspay… Makes you wonder how accurate that supposed 1/2 degree temperature increse since 1900 actually is. These guys are all a fraud. Even the “consensus” of scientists that say global warming is man made over estimate their abillities.
Report Post »TomFerrari
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:17pmTop Down, Bottom Up, and INSIDE OUT.
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:00pmforgot backwards
Report Post »RodT82721
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:17pmIt seems that anyone involved in the greenies global warming scheme are liars. It must be related to their need for more money for their research. No money, no jobs!
Report Post »AJAYW
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:33pmThats what its about- a way to scam everyone
Report Post »KevINtampa
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:17pmHet Blaze, whoever alerted you to this, is a genius. :-)
Report Post »netmail
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 1:14pmSadly: Green = LIE
Report Post »4truth2all
Posted on September 26, 2011 at 2:04pmWhat is the problem with Greenland becomming green land…. I know; don’t tell me, I can swim.
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