PA Atheists Use Race & Slave Imagery in Billboard Against the ‘Barbaric’ Christian Bible
- Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:28pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Last month, The Blaze told you about a battle that’s been brewing between atheists and Pennsylvania lawmakers after the state’s House of Representatives unanimously passed a resolution calling 2012 the “Year of the Bible.” At the time, a staff lawyer from the Freedom From Religion Foundation called the act “shocking.”
Now, two other groups, American Atheists and Pa. Nonbelievers, are being accused of invoking racial themes after posting a Bible-inspired billboard against the designation. Their sign, which tackles the issue of slavery, was erected in an area of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, with a large African American population.
The message aimed at railing against politicians who supported the resolution, was posted just blocks away from the state capitol. It comes, as many atheist-led billboard campaigns do, with a fair amount of controversy. Only this particular message was so inflammatory that it also led to a defacing.
Image Credit: American Atheists
State Rep. Thaddeus Kirkland (D-Delaware), a black legislator, was one of the many voices objecting to the now-removed billboard, which featured a shackled slave. The image of the individual in shackles appeared below the words, “Slaves, obey your masters.” Kirkland supported the Bible resolution and has claimed that the billboard took the Bible out of context and that it is portrayed both racism and hatred.
“I’m a Christian,” the representative said. “My master is Jesus Christ, so I obey him.”
Watch another man’s reaction to the billboard, below (caution: language):
Now, here’s where the story gets even more interesting. One of the men behind the billboard, Ernest Perce V, is American Atheists’ Pennsylvania director. He is also the non-believer who had been in the headlines of late after being attacked by a Muslim during a 2011 Halloween parade (you’ll recall Perce was dressed as a Zombie Muhammad).
When it comes to the billboard, Perce says that he and his group would like the House to repeal the Bible resolution. If the “Year of the Bible” reference isn’t removed, Perce, who calls the Bible “barbaric,” originally pledged to keep the billboard up and to erect others around the state. Someone vandalized the sign, making his first promise an impossibility (although he could opt to re-post it).
A picture of the billboard after it was defaced (Image Credit: Pa. Nonbelievers)
“We want Christians to accept all of the Bible and to accept the wicked parts as well,” he said.
WGAL has more about the controversy:
“The message that we want to send, obviously — slavery is brought to you by the Bible and the House of Representatives,” said Ernest Perce V, of the American Atheists.
Perce said the message shows the Bible promotes slavery, and that the state House should not have voted to make 2012 the “Year of the Bible” in Pennsylvania.
Martha Brown, of Harrisburg, said she disagreed with the message of the billboard. “That’s not true,” Brown said. “I believe the Bible. I read the Bible and I’m not racist.”
Following the controversy, Pa. Nonbelievers President Brian Fields issued an apology, claiming that he is sorry “that many people have misunderstood the billboard.” Fields went on to claim that the intention was never to use race as the sole message behind it.
“The bible is NOT holy or moral as promoted by the Pa. House of Representatives in the ‘Year of the Bible,’” he continued. “The bible was used as an excuse for many very bad things, including American slavery.”
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Comments (352)
hauschild
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:09pmWait – weren’t Hitler and Stalin atheists???
Just sayin’.
Report Post »NJBarFly
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:21pmNo, there is no doubt that Hitler was a Christian. It is expressed clearly in Mein Kampf. Stalin was indeed an atheist.
Report Post »drphil69
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:31pmHitler used Christianity to get elected…then became the one of the worst mass murderer’s in history… but to call him a Christian?… Last time I read the Bible I didn’t see any reference to Jesus wanting to kill all Jews… He, in fact, healed them.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:33pmEvil people do evil things.
Hitler, Mao, Kim Jong Il, Stalin all held themselves up as more than a man. The State was the church.
They were insane, psychopathic murderers who had an insane ideology. They didn‘t care about human life and they sure as hell weren’t thinking rationally.
Report Post »Better Dead Than Red
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:39pmEvery Nazi belt (for their uniforms) bore the inscription: “God on our side”
Just sayin’..
Report Post »wvernon1981
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:55pmYou can deflect but it doesnt change the fact that the Bible condones slavery.
Report Post »bsat23
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:59pmIf people would study the Bible, slaves in the Old Tes, had a differant meaning.In the Bible days they did not have welfare or goverment help.If you had hard times and could not provide for your family a member of there family or neighbor could give you work for 7 years or so,and they called it slave.They could leave anytime they wanted to . They were giving work for shelter and there crops,it was a better welfare plan then, than it is today.But like anything else when a person is down people will take advantage of them .That is what the Lord almighty was saying.Not bondage,it was helping your fellow man. And thats all it was. God Bless America !!!! and Lord have mercy on the lost….
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:08pmHitler was an evolutionist… which is the religious faith of atheists. He, like Obama, claimed to be a Christian, but demonstrated by his actions that he was not.
Report Post »Ruler4You
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:36pmSounds to me like some remedial reading comprehension “IS” in order. On a large scale.
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:56pmSay whatever the fact is the atheist have a point. Most Christians are simply not consistent whatsoever. They simply pick and choose what sounds good to them and what is currently socially acceptable.
Many know that I take exception to the continual quoting of Gen 12 on here especially given the fact that no one ever quotes Leviticus 24:1 or any of the other more controversial scriptures in Leviticus..
Why do you pick and choose people?? you routinely pick anything which fits your agenda i suppose.
Some of these bible thumpers really scare me when one begins to consider how really uneducated they are.. like the Taliban but they don’t even have the convictions which the muslims do.. at least most muslims actually believe their holy book.
Report Post »JimL
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:08pmPost Hitler/ Stalin: abortion (moral relativism), eugenics (designed children), suicide (self help), euthanasia (medical procedure), genocide (global “Planned Parenthood), slavery (arbitrary rights), and ignorance of history, truth, beauty, reason, justice (license and public education).
Report Post »ThinkFool
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:17pmWhy is the Pennsylvania legislature touching this? It is a minefield.
What Bible do they celebrate? There are many versions and translations. Some churches accept books (like the Apocrypha) that others do not. Catholics and Protestants could go to war over such differences!
Pennsylvania was founded to be a colony of religious freedom and tolerance, which is why so many sects (Mennonites, Moravians, Catholics, etc.) emigrated to it. William Penn is rolling in his grave to see his colony come to this endorsement of a particular religion (at worst) or cynical attempt to appeal to voters (at best).
Government must stay out of the religion business. Anything else threatens our religious freedom.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:27pmModerationIsBest You left Obama from your list, leaving him out is like listing holy men and leaving Jesus out.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:30pmThe bible doesn’t condone slavery, there are many, the message through out the entire new testament is kick off you shackles and become a warrior for good, not a slave to man.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:57pmMost, if NOT ALL atheists ARE EVIL JUST BECAUSE THEY DON’T BELIEVE IN GOD. I am tired of the MINORITY TELLING ME WHAT TO DO. It will stop when we all stand up to them…..NOW.
Report Post »Find out who these people are behind these billboards, call their offices and hassle them (do not be mean, but tell them you are against them). If enough people call them, they‘ll move or hide under a rock until it’s safe. JUST DON’T EVER MAKE IT SAFE FOR THEM. The problem with Americans is they are COMPLACENT. They complain, yet do nothing. Only 27% came out to vote yesterday. What does that say? And you wonder why evil is overtaking us? ARE YOU STUPID?
I support God's Israel!
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:59pmwvernon1981:
Report Post »I guess you don’t know your Bible then. THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE. You are walking in dangerous territory with God if you spread that lie around.
mycomet123
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:30pmIt really doesn’t matter what LABEL a person puts on himself. Hitler, if he did say he was a christian –was obviously not. I can spend all my time sitting in a garage & tell everyone I’m a car!. A Christian is someone who follows Jesus Christ as evidenced by their ACTIONS & WORDS which correlates to the Word of God in the Bible. Not everyone who calls themselves christians are truly a christian. Anyone can plant themselves inside of a church & totally distort & pervert the doctrine as evidenced by our current president–& than turn around & call themselves a christian. They are what the Bible calls liars following their leader lucifier the father of lies.
Report Post »Gold Coin & Economic News
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:59pm“No, there is no doubt that Hitler was a Christian.”
Don’t think so. You can put a Christian name on Hitler like atheists are want to do, but Hitler was certainly not a Christian in any way, shape or form. He simply used the label to further his agenda.
Calling Hitler a Christian is like saying atheism isn’t a religion. Please!
Report Post »AnaChris
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:13pmthe bible clearly says concerning our judgments on if someone is a christian or not “You shall know them by there fruits” (Matthew 7) so to say that Hitler is a christian because he claims to be is evidence of ignorance of the scriptures. He was a murder ….and unrepentant sinner. This is not christianity
Report Post »ZomBrad
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:58pm…..meanwhile Christians are dying at the hands of muslims and communists >.>
….also Hitler was an atheist. He wasn’t doing anything for God, but helping nature weed out the “less fit”….
Don’t be dense.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:59pm@Goldcoins
Report Post »“Calling Hitler a Christian is like saying atheism isn’t a religion”. Your not very good at analogies are you? Atheism is the absence of belief. Stop saying it’s a religion and to all the other posters who use mind numbingly stupid statements such as “Darwin is your God” please get a clue.
Kaoscontrol
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:05pmThe bible doesn’t TEACH slavery, it accurately portrays a time and culture when slavery was accepted. JESUS came to set the captives FREE. (His words….See Luke 4:18).
Report Post »And…why aren‘t the atheists upset that the black man in the illustration is wearing a ’cross?‘ Aren’t they against public displays of religious symbolism?
scarebear83
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:07pmFirst of all the Bible does not condone slavery. Second of all it‘s telling those slaves who are now Christians to obey their masters because it’s the Christian thing to do. If the master beats you or treats you awful then he will have to answer to it someday, not to attack back or treat him the same way he’s treating you. There’s also passages that tell children to obey their parents. Well I have to ask what if the parents aren’t Christian and they tell the child to lie for them? Should the child do it? No because first and foremost we are to obey God. Here it’s a similar context, those who are already slaves need to obey their masters within doing what’s right. If their master tells them to steal something then they should not obey him. I can’t seem to wrap my head around why anyone would take this one verse out of context and use it as “proof” that the Bible is condoning slavery.
Report Post »Kaoscontrol
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:12pm“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.”
Report Post »— Shakespeare – Merchant of Venice
When Jesus was being tempted, Satan always began with “Hath God not said….” followed by some scripture he would twist. This technique is as old as the Devil.
Anarimus
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 7:01pm@GUP20
Hitler practiced a discredited evolutionary principle called Lamarkism and he detested Darwin’s explanation of evolution. Hitler even went so far as to add Darwin’s books to the list of banned books and had many copies burned so he could push Lamarkism.
Evolution is not a religion as it is not a belief system as it has overwhelming evidence in it’s favor and is accepted as fact and is the cornerstone of the life sciences. Religion makes a claim and demands i accept it despite or even in spite of the other evidence and to atheists that is simply never good enough.
Report Post »Onowicit
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 8:02pmChristianity is what abolished slavery, not secularism. For these STUPID secularist Communism enslaves entire country’s. Islam still practices slavery….not a word about that. For the proud libertarians… drug LORDS enslave women and children in the sex trade. CHRISTIANITY stand triumphant in its record on abolishing slavery. It took time but we did it.
Report Post »jhaydeng
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 8:30pmIf you don’t believe in anything then you are lost until death!
Report Post »mycomet123
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 8:46pm@ANARIMUS — You stated that evolution is an accepted fact as the cornerstone of the life sciences? Maybe in your liberal science books evolution is called an “accepted fact” but it IS NOT an accepted fact in mine!! If you want to believe you evolved from some ape feel free, I will not argue with you on that one since it would be to hard to prove you didn’t based upon your “small limited mind” than cannot comprehend a CREATOR!
Report Post »Jinglebob
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 10:38pmThis shows a complete misunderstanding or lack of knowledge of the Bible. Liberals never get the Bible right. Slaves of the Bible were not the slaves of early America. Try reading a Bible commentary once in awhile. Just “Google” it. Try Matthew Henry.
Report Post »VoteBushIn12
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 12:11amI am so tired of seeing Christians run from their own teachings. Take the faith as it is or don’t take it all. Once you start picking and choosing, you not only denounce the written Word, but you become a cult in and of your own beliefs.
Face it…
The Bible condones slavery,
Homosexuality is no more a sin than eating lobster (Jesus died for both, you are saved from both),
and Hitler was a Christian.
Also, whatever happened to turning the other cheek? Whatever “Christians” defaced this billboard needs to read up and consider what Jesus would have done.
Destruction of property? I think not.
Nothing more than Fake Christians.
Report Post »katherine7898
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 1:40amI am getting reeeeally tired of the lie that Hitler was a Christian.
Pope Pius XI told them that a vote for the National Socialists was a vote against the Church. He had already read Hitler’s book, thought Hitler was dangerous. Hitler called them obstructionists. Pacelli, Pope Pius XII, spoke publicly in the first year or two, around 40 times! Against Hitler. In Hitler’s OWN DIARY, he calls Christianity absurd and a liar. Hitler tried to infiltrate the Church to change them, he tried to ridicule them and tell them they weren’t being Christianly. Thousand of priests were rounded up and sent to camps who made trouble for the regime. Christians were starved, tortured and killed. He saw Christians as Jewish people’s closest allies, helpers. I forget the wording one of his SS men used.
Doesn’t it sink in for a split second that Christians worship a Jewish man. Doesn’t it sink in for a moment that whenever Pope Pius XII is vilified, some Rabbi sicks up for him. So someone says there’s a cross with the word God on it. Well gee, manipulation and lying was just invented last week. I bet you believe Nancy Pelosi is a Catholic, Obama is a Christian, too.
For goodness sake, please read more. Not the leftist trash trying to cover up their past.
Report Post »hillbillyinny
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 8:00amHitler used the term “christian,“ but his type of christian was stickly a ”state church” that would help to control the people. The German church had fallen by the 1930′s the German national church had fallen into progressivism the same as many of our mainline churches have here at this time! Church meant to gather together once a week, sing some hymns, listen to some platitudes and go forth never to think of what was heard. By the time the the church was taken over by the Nazi’s the people had lost all understand of God in their life or had allowed Hitler to put himself on the alter rather than crosses or the Bible.
Other churches such as the Confessing Church in Germany conginued to present the gospel of Christ which was in direct opposition to Hitler and his purposes while the Nazi’s tried to silence them. Read the book BONHOEFFER by Eric Metaxis and many others that explain what was really going on I Germany while the world averted its eyes!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:13am“Slavery was established by decree of Almighty God…it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation…it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts.” Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:16amOh looky, there are more:
“There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral.” Rev. Alexander Campbell
“The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example.” Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina
“The hope of civilization itself hangs on the defeat of ***** suffrage.” A statement by a prominent 19th-century southern Presbyterian pastor, cited by Rev. Jack Rogers, moderator of the Presbyterian Church (USA).
Report Post »“The doom of Ham has been branded on the form and features of his African descendants. The hand of fate has united his color and destiny. Man cannot separate what God hath joined.” United States Senator James Henry Hammond.
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:18am@Bsat:
Male Israelites were let go after 6 years. Foreign slaves were held indefinitely. Please stop learning your history from Glenn Beck University [sic].
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:24amAlso, god commanded the Israelites not only to take sex slaves during a raid on another group of people, but also it was smiled upon to take more than one wife. So much for family values and the sanctity of marriage.
The Bible is a cesspool of ten kinds of nasty but the real evil is calling yourself a follower of it. Especially if you haven’t really read it. That’s just blind devotion. Isn‘t that what the Germans were most guilty of during the 30’s and 40′s?
Your religion is evil and so are you.
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:36amThe Nazis also defaced things they didn’t like. They also set books on fire. See? Here’s an article about them continuing the practice in modern times:
Report Post »http://www.forbes.com/2006/11/30/book-burnings-potter-tech-media_cz_ds_books06_1201burn.html
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:46amSwampy: “However, you MAY purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You MAY also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You MAY treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You MAY treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46)
You MAY means condoning. The Bible condones and encourages slavery. I’m not taking this out of context. I’m quoting it. Your religion is evil. Your god is evil and you are a fool to call yourself a follower of something like that. It’s downright sickening to watch.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:08amThe claim is sometimes made that Hitler was a Christian – a Roman Catholic until the day he died. In fact, Hitler rejected Christianity.
The book Hitler’s Secret Conversations 1941-1944 published by Farrar, Straus and Young, Inc.first edition, 1953, contains definitive proof of Hitler’s real views. The book was published in Britain under the title, _Hitler’s Table Talk 1941-1944, which title was used for the Oxford University Press paperback edition in the United States.
All of these are quotes from Adolf Hitler:
Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:
National Socialism and religion cannot exist together…. The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity’s illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity…. Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)
10th October, 1941, midday:
Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)
14th October, 1941, midday:
Report Post »The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death…. When understanding of the universe has become widespread… Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity…. Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity….
mycomet123
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:28am@VOTEBUSHIN12, Are you kidding me. If you want to read God’s stance on homosexuality read Romans 1:24-27. Actually do yourself a favor & read all of Romans 1:18-32, 2:1-16. Homosexuality is a SIN. Talk about picking & choosing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:38am@ANARIMUS
Evolution, in fact, is a faith system, not a science. Science is the purview of the repeatable, the testable, and the observable. By definition, no one was here to observe evolution, and what we observe today is exactly the opposite of evolution with genetic systems devolving and decreasing in information, not evolving. Neither is evolution repeatable or testable as it takes ions of time. Therefore those who hold to evolution must do so by faith.
Furthermore, consider that facts and evidence do not tell a story. They must be interpreted. All who interpret do so based on their underlying assumptions and presupposed biases.
As a Christian who believes in the ultimate authority of the Bible, my presuppositional basis is clear – the teachings of the Bible. But evolutionists don’t want to admit that they have a presuppositional worldview (which they clearly do). Each interprets facts based on our existing worldview, so the argument is NOT science vs religion… but faith vs faith as we investigate the validity between each of our presuppositions. The Bible makes more sense as a presuppositional basis than random chance over ions resulting in a high level of order. Additionally, that NOTHING ever comes from NOTHING. Something always comes from SOMETHING. Something never comes from NOTHING. If you go further back in time to the beginning, you come to a point where there was no matter or energy to cause an explosion of all the matter and energy.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 11:04amfoxholeatheist: “Also, god commanded the Israelites not only to take sex slaves during a raid…”
Where did God command the Israelites to take sex slaves? I see God condoning sex ONLY under a lawful marriage. The way an Israelite would have been morally justified in a sexual activity with a female is that she is made his wife and given all the rights and privileges thereto. In Deut. 21:10-14 the female is even given a time of mourning and cleansing then the male can “go into her” with the intent of being a husband.
God allowed them to have more than one wife or divorce her for any reason because of the hardness of their hearts (Mark 10:4-9). Under the law of Christ no one is allowed to do such.
As for slavery, I suggest reading Deut. 23:15-16 You shall not give back to his master the slave who has escaped from his master to you. He may dwell with you in your midst, in the place which he chooses within one of your gates, where it seems best to him; you shall not oppress him. -Still sound like a God who is evil and unjust? And even Exodus 21:16 He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death. Anyone who claims God would condone slavery or condones something vile like rape has not *studied* the Bible. Sure one may have read it but reading gets you nowhere but taking verses out of context. I‘ve been told to study evolution and I’ll know more about it. Well, study the Bible and you might be surprised at what you lear
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:29pmEvolutionist is NOT a faith. Evolution is a fact.
Report Post »hireLarryFireBobby
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 8:20amHitler & Stalin were both trained in Catholic & Jesuit Universities, neither were Atheists, both led a cult of millions of brutal police, ‘gott MIT UNS’ on every German Belt Buckle worn by every German soldier while Stalin locked up or killed Atheists as they were the intelligentsia of the Leninist Revolution, the “old bolsheviks” it is the dictator & the theocrat who uses blind stupid religious people to maintain control over a otherwise free society where science & decency should prevail, the King James Bible is so obscene, it took President McKinley to pardon Charles Chilton Moore out of prison for the crime of mailing a precise bible tract called the SONG OF SOLOMON nothing else … try Ezekiel 23:20 for a Year of the Bible reading to school girls & tell me the book is NOT PURE FILTH? “SEX WITH DONKEYS women inseminated with more donkey semen than horses *********” there is no other context, that is what the bible contains, insane murderous ramblings 843-926-1750 Larry Carter Center
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 9:31amScarebear: Judges 21: 10- 24 :
Report Post »So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. “This is what you ARE to do,” they said. “Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin.” Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, “How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God’s curse.”
Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives,
FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 9:32am(cont)
“Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, ‘Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn’t find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.’” So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.
And they all lived happily ever after.
Report Post »mountainmover101
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 9:52amHey Hauschild that’s an inconvenient truth.
Report Post »Bethgirl
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 2:40pmI wonder what would happen if atheists went and destroyed the billboards Christians put up? I have yet to see a atheist post threats of death and violence towards anyone of any religion. Yet, it is acceptable, that as a atheist one should live in fear? Believe in your silly stories of supernatural make believe. It’s no different then your child attacking you for the sake of Santa Claus.
Report Post »Bethgirl
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 3:44pmAtheism is NOT a religion. Get it right.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 10:30pmFoxholeatheist- I can see how one who hasn’t studied the particular passage you gave me might be confused. But if you read you will understand the Israelites made their own bad oaths. They did not ask for God’s guidance on the matter but rather took matters into their own hands and swore an oath saying that the tribe of Benjamin was not allowed wives from the rest of the children of Israel. Well they put themselves in a rather bad predicament because they did not want to see their brothers the tribe of benjamin die off. So with that being said they told the men what to do according to their own views on the matter, not what God told them to do. Yet still I see nothing in the passage at all that even hints at a notion that those women were used as sex slaves or even raped. This was a decision made by the children of Israel and not by God.
Report Post »greatgrandma
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:08pmThe taxpayers are the slaves, the government are the slave masters.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:58pmAnd pray tell us all, WHAT ROLE DO YOU PLAY IN TRYING TO REVERSE THIS????????
Report Post »ShyLow
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:29pmThe ten percent plan solves this…A ten perent sells tax collected by the county,90 percent stays in the county,10 percent is given to the state…the state keeps 90 percent then gives the federal 10 percent…If you don‘t buy anything you don’t pay taxes
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:55amI agree with this statement.
Report Post »hireLarryFireBobby
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 8:23am“issue” is the bible word meaning “ e j a c u l a t e ” censored above
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:07pmIf people would actually read the entire Bible and study the context in which each Book was written, it would be a little easier to accept criticism of It. Randomly picking a verse a using it to promote a personal agenda is not a genuine criticism and The Scripture actually teaches that we are not to do that very thing.
Incidentally, some believers like to do this as well, when it comes to pushing thier own personal belief system above and beyond what The Word really says.
Report Post »JustPeachy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:20pmAgreed. Some of this is just plain ignorance–whether willful or not.
Many non-believers love to point fingers to judge Christians as being “closed-minded” when all those other fingers point back right to themselves!
Having said that, why appoint a year as “The Year of the Bible” or anything else? Seems silly to me. People may read the Bible, study it, believe it – or not.
Report Post »sun_sneezer
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:21pmBut there is a lot of support for social conservative jackasses like Santorum who do exactly this “picking a verse a using it to promote a personal agenda”. Stop doing that and probably atheists will stop pushing back so hard.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:28pmWe all probably need to stop focusing on “pushing” anybody. If we all did that, we all would be less inclined to push back.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:01pmKitkarr
Report Post »Finally! A person who has stated an ABSOLUTE TRUTH. Thank you!
Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:25pmI Support God’s Israel- I do what I can by the Grace of God. Btw, I support, too.
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:04pmUh….where’s the “context” that it was taken from in this article? It’s:
“You slave OWNERS must be JUST and FAIR to all your slaves..” Colossians 4:1
I’ve always contended that people have misused these verses and/or ignorant about it – no balance or common sense used. No, God doesn’t command that you have no slaves BUT at the same time He admonishes the owners to treat them with respect and care. Thus: the sin is not “having slaves”. The sin is the mistreatment from the owners, and the laziness of the slaves who don’t do the required jobs.
Report Post »So….human nature, being what it is, in too many cases both the owners and the slaves committed sins. These were just the instructions on how God wanted both to act, etc. which is fair and just. It isn’t His fault, most didn’t obey those.
Unfortunately this was just portrayed as slavery being sinful. Not if they are treated like “family”…in fact think about it — if treated right, that was pretty good….they had food, clothing, care.
It should have been abolished though b/c too many were mistreated and disrespected (to say the least) and that was the horrendous sin.
girlnurse
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:44pmThe slaves in history were not all black. The Irish were once an enslaved people
Report Post »and so were the Jews. All through history there have been slaves in all cultures.
What people do not realize is that Slavery belongs to ALL of us.
We are currently ALL slaves to the elites and the bankers…most of us just don’t know it.
ConservDadASD
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:03pmIt must be noted that Apostle Paul was writing within the age of Rome, where slavery was common… much of the time being due to the enslaved subject either being a captive of war, or someone in debt to the master (until debts are paid off), or someone voluntarily agreeing to be a bondservant (kinda like a job for life). Therefore, Paul was writing to people within the established culture which accepted slavery. He was writing to slaves who were Christians, as well as to masters who were also Christians. In one letter to Philemon, he wrote to a master to intervene for a slave who had run away, then converted to Christianity, and who wanted to make amends. Paul requested that Philemon forgive the slave and take him back into his household… and hopefully, set him free so that he can come help Paul in his ministry. And in the course of the letter, he reminded Philemon of his Heavenly master who will hold him accountable as well for how he lived.
On the other hand, American slavery, the subjects were treated either well or cruelly, depending on the master. But a lot of them were treated more on the cruel side of the spectrum. In addition, they were considered property, and any offspring the slaves had were subject to being sold to other masters, thus breaking up families… much of the time for life (“ROOTS”). In places where they raised sugar cane, even young children were worked hard and many lost their lives in the fires they used in processing sugar. (Continued
Report Post »ConservDadASD
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:19pmThen there is the slave procurement process: in which the slaves were either captured as they ventured too close to the coast where the slave ships were anchored… or they were betrayed by other native tribes who advised slave traders where to get them. Once captured, they are loaded onto ships and kept under the deck for most of the time, where there was a stench that no person should be forced to live in. As a result of the voyage across the ocean, a good 1/3rd or more didn’t make it, and those that did got sick from dysentery and other diseases.
Report Post »This kind of slavery was defended by southern slave owners as being justified by the New Testament writings of Paul. Yet the usage of the Bible to defend their practices was done in error.
Fortunately, there were Christians who started and took part in Abolitionists Societies, who correctly used the Bible to show that slavery was indeed wrong. Harriet Beecher Stowe was one of them.
To conclude, the atheists’ billboard is wrong because the Bible does not justify the slavery of black slaves, and those who today apply by Bible, AS CORRECTLY READ AND UNDERSTOOD IN ITS CONTEXT, do not justify it either.
copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:35pmExcellent posts and historical context, CONSERVDAD!
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:45pmConservDadASD What the hell makes you think they were teated badly in the US? They were valuable property, often worth more than the owners homes. They were today’s equivalent to a harvester/combine. I know loads of farmers that keep their 100K harvesters in a barn worth or than their homes, and if it breaks down and their kids are sick, it gets fixed before they kids go to the doctor. Roots is a book of fantasy, made up by someone who had never lived in the south, plagiarized by Alex, it had little if anything at all to do with reality. It certainly shouldn’t be used as a history book to understand slavery in the South. Almost 100% of the slaves were bought from northern’s who had ships, the south really had none at that time, who bought them from Muslim slave traitors that gave them the choice to convert to Islam or be sold into slavery, they picked slavery, so the families were broken up long before they got to the south.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:10pm@Momprayn.
what do you make of this verse? “then his master must take him before the judges. He shall take him to the door or the doorpost and pierce his ear with an awl. Then he will be his servant for life.” Isn’t that a direct commandment from God? It’s in Leviticus, after all. Or what about: “Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession”.
Report Post »Dan_o
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 11:14pmBut if he says to you, ‘I will not go out from you,’ because he loves you and your household, since he is well-off with you, then you shall take an awl, and put it through his ear into the door, and he shall be your slave forever. And to your female slave you shall do the same. It shall not seem hard to you when you let him go free from you, for at half the cost of a hired worker he has served you six years. So the LORD your God will bless you in all that you do. (Deuteronomy 15:16-18 ESV)
Report Post »Dan_o
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 11:29pm@Sonick, believe me when I say this, I don’t write this reply for you, but for the others you are trying to deceive.
The wise of heart will receive commandments,
but a babbling fool will come to ruin.
(Proverbs 10:8 ESV)
For those who want to learn, look up the passages for yourself IN CONTEXT. God didn’t leave us a crib sheet for knowing Him. He left a completed work of His character, promises, love and judgement. Understanding cannot be had without effort, but redemption can be had in a moment through belief in the substitutionary death of Jesus Christ! Your soul was bought for a price and it is a joyful work to serve the One who paid for it!
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 8:15amit seems that nobody here understood the message of the billboard. Maybe it was poorly designed or maybe you are all too blind to see. Using this quote and juxtaposing it with the image of an African slave was done to illustrate that indisputable fact that the Bible is a collection of thoughts and precepts from the Bronze Age that mostly reflects the culture of the time which should not be used literally to guide us in the 21st century. A lot of american slaveholders used the Bible as a justification for their despicable actions and that’s reprehensible. Michelle Bachmann thinks a woman should always obey her husband because the Bibe tells her so. Gays are evil because Leviticus says so… Etc… The Atheists are saying we should have moved on from these dark times. How is that so hard to understand?
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:40amSwampy, did you know that you can trace a horse’s linage back father than you can many black people in this country?
Report Post »Dan_o
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:11amAgain, this reply is to put Sonick’s statements in context:
“it seems that nobody here understood the message of the billboard. Maybe it was poorly designed or maybe you are all too blind to see. Using this quote and juxtaposing it with the image of an African slave was done to illustrate that indisputable fact that the Bible is a collection of thoughts and precepts from the Bronze Age that mostly reflects the culture of the time which should not be used literally to guide us in the 21st century.” – It is easily understood, just isn’t accurate or in context. Col 4:1 says, “1 Masters, grant to your slaves justice and fairness, knowing that you too have a Master in heaven.”
“A lot of american slaveholders used the Bible as a justification for their despicable actions and that’s reprehensible.” They were wrong to do so just as the billboard is making incorrect inferences.
“Michelle Bachmann thinks a woman should always obey her husband because the Bibe tells her so.” – Good for her! If her husband “loves her as Christ loves the Church”, then it will be an easy thing for her.
“Gays are evil because Leviticus says so” – All sin is evil. We are all sinners. Some gays choose to wear their sin on their sleeves, but we are not to judge sinners as sinners ourselves. That person is also wrong.
“The Atheists are saying we should have moved on from these dark times. How is that so hard to understand?” – I think the record of godless leaders spe
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 11:11amDan_o, I’ll try to make my point even clearer. The message of this billboard is : bronze age philosophy cannot help us solve every problem we face in the 21st century. Worse, certain “moral” teachings of the bible are purely amoral. To make this point, they juxtaposed the image of an 18th century african slave with a bible verse. Why? Because even in the 18th century, there was a strong anti-slavery movement, largely based on Enlightenment ideas. These thinkers were in tune with their time: science was on the verge of explaining that there was no such thing as inferior and superior races and slavery appeared more and more unjustifiable. How could the slaveholders counter this new moral paradigm? By invoking the authority of the Bible, which a lot of christians consider the be-all end-all of moral teachings. That was wrong, just as it is wrong to condemn homosexuality today based on one line found in Leviticus.
Report Post »Dan_o
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 11:45am@ Sonick. I completely understand and completely disagree.
The point of the billboard is moot because the verse is not in context. Follow along, please, to the verse referenced in it’s entirety:
“Slaves, obey in everything those who are your earthly masters, not by way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but with sincerity of heart, fearing the Lord. Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ. For the wrongdoer will be paid back for the wrong he has done, and there is no partiality. Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.” (Colossians 3:22-4:1 ESV)
Note the chapter and verse notations are a feature of modern translations and not in the original letters. From this it is clear the bible does not condone abuse of any kind from worker to boss, owner to slave, etc. Both slave/worker and owner/boss are charged with specific instructions that, if followed, will make for a productive and satisfying relationship for both parties.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 12:07pm@dan_o
Report Post »how does providing context invalidate the message of the billboard? You’re not adressing the real issue here. You’re telling me they omitted the part that says you should be kind to your slaves. Sure, whatever, but the Bible still condones slavery! Slavery of any kind even “kind slavery” is abhorrent. You speak of a “productive and satisfying relationship for both slave and owner” and you want me to take you seriously? You are just proving my point: according to you, living biblically, means happily accepting being treated as a slave in this lifetime, because in the next, all wrongs will be righted. But that’s not the most evil part provided by the “context” you are so adamant about: the fact is the bible tells us we’re all slaves ! If that’s the basis of your moral code, then what prevents you from owning another human being as long as you treat them “kindly”? You choose to be a slave. Fine, it’s your decision. I choose not to have a master. Not in this life or the other one.
Dan_o
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 12:59pmFor further clarification, the term slave (Greek – dulous) is more commonly translated bond-servant and provides a better description in this case. A bond-servant is one who is working off a debt. If both parties were happy after the debt was satisfied, the bible gave guidelines for how a permanent relationship should look. Working for a wage or paying off a debt makes you a servant/slave. The bible provides guidelines for treating people in your charge. So, yes, I would want to be treated as the bible outlines.
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:31pmIf you have a lot of debt on your credit card, you are indeed a slave.
Report Post »Lee_in_PA
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:04pmDrove past there this morning. Signage is down as shown above. This guy has been trying to make trouble for some time. First dressing as a zombie Muslim for Halloween. Judge who tossed the case has been threatened. Had his office temporairly moved to a safer spot. I don’t care whatever he says I believe the billboard site was chosen on purpose, along with the woodcut depection. First Amendment allows for free speech, but you still cannot holler FIRE in a crowded place. This was intentional, and while I do not approve of vandalism to whomever took it down… Thank you. Please don’t do it again.
Report Post »JustPeachy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:23pmI agree this group HAD to know this billboard would be offensive–and not just to Christians. They just didn’t CARE. Making their POINT was more important than offending anyone.
If they put another one up, chances are someone would deface it again. Waste of both time and money.
Dumb group, but likely they feel they made their opinions known.
Thing is, just as they didn’t care about the people they might offend, I don’t really care about their opinions, either!
Declaring a “Year of the Bible” is kinda silly, IMO–but so WHAT?!? LOL If ya like it-read it. If not-DON’T!
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:47amWhat is offensive is your ilk trying to force it down the throats of the rest of us.
Report Post »Whyismynamealwaystaken
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:04pmathiests make me laugh. They don’t believe in a God but they are so angry with Him.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:10pmBecause God doesn’t fit their fabricated narratives.
Report Post »Popp40
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:20pmPlus, if God does not exist then why do they fight so hard against it? What are they afraid of?
Just remember….there will be no Atheists in Hell. Think about that one for second…
One more thing….do these groups not realize that the government, specifically the liberals and Democrats are nothing more than slave owners….after all they view the people as nothing more than slaves?
Report Post »FoxholeAtheist
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:50amNo, we’re upset with your ignorance.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 2:32pmAtheists are not angry at something they don’t believe in. We’re angry at people who claim any sort of moral authority on behalf of something that does not exist. See the difference? Did you not understand the message of the billboard? That using a 2000 year old book as your only source of morality leads to horrors such as slavery?
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:04pmLast I checked the slaves in the Bible were mostly Jews; Jews in Egypt, Jews in Babylon. Apparently, the FFRF does not read the Bible otherwise they would know this. The only African nation mentioned in the Bible was Ethiopia and I don’t think any of them were slaves; I could be mistaken.
So in my best racist remark – It was whitey who were the slaves not blacks during Biblical times.
Report Post »taxpro4u03
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 10:34pmMe thinks da TRUE ‘jews’ are decendents of the ‘shepherd kings,’ – moving FORWARD thru history real quick the tribe of Dan (VI-kings= 6th tribe) wound up in Europe/new world… the ‘jews’ of today are descended from Khazaria – CONVERTS — NOT ‘blood.’ Hence — ‘Hitler’ and the rest of the world had no problem persecuting them throughout history. Following WWII – the ‘land of Israel’ was populated from ‘survivors,‘ who sat on ships offshore waiting for the ’go-ahead’ to move in. here are a couple links for ya… the TRUTH has no agenda ;-) Isn‘t it ’interesting‘ WHY today the prez could care LESS about the ’Israelis?‘ Does HE know something YOU don’t???? Find out – DIG — ALL the way back to ancient egypt (and the plagerized/paraphrased book of the Dead) ENLIGHTENMENT bursts some santa clause ‘stories’ sometimes.
http://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/joseph.htm
http://www.khazaria.com/
Report Post »taxpro4u03
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 10:46pmhttp://www.freemaninstitute.com/Gallery/joseph.htm
http://www.khazaria.com/
Two Links above will help the ‘corn-fused’ with a lil enlightenment. (since the truth has no agenda — we need to know WHO these people are, their heritage and WHY the coverup — Start HERE. the Hyksos (hebrews) are the TRUE JEWS — ‘shepherd kings’ – BOOTED out of egypt banished to ‘Cannan/Palestine/isreal to return in ‘Jospeh’ to reclaim the Throne -Cleopatra and her son CEASARIAN (aka Jesus, the christ) were, co-Pharaohs and — since JULIUS CAESAR was deemed ‘god’ by the roman senate – Caesarian by default is the ‘son of god.’ Enter Octavian, Emporor succeding Julius following his untimely conspiritorial demise. Khasarian ‘jews’ are CONVERTS — NOT BLOOD — (‘occupying jews’ and hated group throughout history) Think amadadinajad and Berry know this??? SURE they do…
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:02pm“One of the men behind the billboard, Ernest Perce V, is American Atheists’ Pennsylvania director. He is also the non-believer who had been in the headlines of late after being attacked by a Muslim during a 2011 Halloween parade (you’ll recall Perce was dressed as a Zombie Muhammad).”
Guy can’t win. Mocks Islam, gets attacked. Mocks Christianity, has his sign ripped down (presumably causing hundreds, if not more, in damages).
Then again, I‘m not sure that it’s mocking to quote the Bible. I’ll be the first to admit, as a Christian, I have some issues with some of the Old Testament teachings. I try to follow the acts and example of Jesus; the rest can be either lovely or brutal, depending on what part you’re reading.
Don’t think the atheists are right, but I don’t think state legislators should be injecting religion into politics, nor do I think angry Muslims should attack Halloweener or angry (presumably) Christians tearing down billboards.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:07pmIsn’t the quote technically New Testament?
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:17pmYes, it is; I find most of my issues in the Old Testament is all. Paul has some pretty… different… ideas as well. He also never met Jesus during his mortal life though, so I tend to take his words with a grain of salt.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:19pmYes, Tzion, it is. The problem comes when people don’t understand what a “slave” or what a “master” really is/are. If a person doesn’t know who is being addressed by whom or about what, its very hard to command any type of authority over what The Scripture actually means. If it is not understood what It means to begin with, it is even harder to have any effective current, real world application in our daily lives.
It is truly amazing that someone could take a text from Colossians and say that The Bible and God intended for us to institute a system of human slavery. Some people need to read more.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:24pmLocked – when you read Paul’s words, you are reading The Holy Spirit’s words. The same Holy Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. The same Holy Spirit that inspired all Scripture, and all Scripture is profitable for doctrine. Its dangerous to take any portion “with a grain of salt.”
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:27pmExactly, KIT! Or that there wasn’t exactly a capitalistic system 2000+ years ago or hotjobs.com advertising all the sheep tending jobs available. Nor do atheists want to hear that many people chose to be bond-slaves or indentured servants as a means of employment. If slavery were always horrific, why would anyone ever willingly chose to be one?
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:29pm@Kitkarr
“Its dangerous to take any portion “with a grain of salt.””
I would argue that it’s difficult to take any portion literally as well. Hence why we have faith: I -believe- much of the Bible is the Word of God, but it’s impossible to prove it. Doubt is the sign of belief; certainty is the sign of fanaticism.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:33pmI would say doubt is a sign of disbelief and certainty is a sign of hope. The “hope” we recieve through Christ is actually translated “certainty.”
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:40pm“I would say doubt is a sign of disbelief and certainty is a sign of hope. The “hope” we recieve through Christ is actually translated “certainty.””
Then we’ll have to disagree on that. I cannot say for a fact that anything in the Bible is true; I simply believe it to be so. We won’t know until the moment of our deaths; up until then, stating something that we believe to be the absolute truth is just putting our own beliefs forward as more than they actually are.
Report Post »Drives Like Jehu
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:49pmAt the very least during his mortal life, Paul met with Jesus on the road to Damascus AND when he was caught up into the third heaven.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:58pmLocked – I agree with most of wht you said, but its hard to refute actual translation. Your point of view isn’t as difficult to swallow as some others, and your delivery isn’t as abrasive either. Btw – if I am to wear the label of “fanatic” about my Savior, I do so with a thankful heart.
Drives – That’s kind of what I thought.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:31pmLocked, the apostle Paul had a fantastic legal mind. If you don’t understand the Old Testament, then you don’t understand the “big picture.” Paul lays it out plainly, describing it quite well. For example, in Romans 5:12 Paul says that by one man, Adam, sin entered the world, and that death entered the world as a result of that one man’s sin. This means sin and death were not originally part of creation, but came as a consequence for Adam’s actions. No death before sin, and no sin before Adam means you could not have had millions of years of evolution leading up to Adam and humanity as evolution works on survival of fittest (hard to do when there is no death).
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
Either the Bible is the inspired Word of God, or it is not. If so, you must take it all as absolute truth. If not, then why believe anything it has to say?
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:58pmGup is usually dead on.
I’ve been accused of being an “all or nothing” type of guy throughout my life and it doesn’t really bother me that much, because I think that God’s Word reflects an all or nothing type theology in an attempt to form His followers ideology to that mold.
Why else would He threaten to spew out the ones that are luke warm? If God wasn’t “all or nothing,” we wouldn’t have needed an advocate in Jesus to satisfy the judgment we deserve.
Bravo, Gup.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:05pmCopatriots – Didn’t mean to ignore you. You are absolutley right.
On the spiritual side of it, I’m afraid people ignore the fact that we are all under some sort of rule. We are either slaves to sin, or servants of God. People just don’t want to hear that, either.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:05pm“Either the Bible is the inspired Word of God, or it is not. If so, you must take it all as absolute truth.”
This is a false argument. The argument is valid as:
Either the Bible is the inspired Word of God, or it is not.
If so, that still does not mean it is absolutely true, as could merely be inspired by God and written by man. It could also be absolutely true, but its absolute truth is not mandated by its inspiration.
Now, we get into even stickier territory when we go into “what is absolute truth?” Does that mean it is 100% literal? Did Jesus live in the desert for 40 days literally without food or water, or did he go to the desert without supplies and lived off the land? Was the Earth created in seven literal days, or is a “day” in God’s view some other amount of time? Or talk about truth: one person will look at the Old Testament and say “Polygamy was practiced by almost all major names. Thus, Jesus changed the laws of the Old Testament by mandating only monogamy.” But another will look and say, “Monogamy was always what God wanted; the Hebrews were forced to practice polygamy by necessity, not divine guidance. Jesus did not change the laws, he just clarified them.“ Still another will say ”Well, Paul said that marriage is only for those without self-control. Doesn’t that mean polygamy is better than giving into the flames of passion and the Old Testament was right?”
All people find different “truths” in their belief.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:10pm@Kitkarr
“I’ve been accused of being an “all or nothing” type of guy throughout my life and it doesn’t really bother me that much, because I think that God’s Word reflects an all or nothing type theology in an attempt to form His followers ideology to that mold.”
While you might be an “all-or-nothing” kind of guy, you’re also polite and well-written. I haven’t felt anything like you forcing your beliefs on others; just an expression of your belief (or certainty, as it were). I commend you for that. We might have different views, but I think you’re honestly practicing what you believe and I cannot fault you for it. My only issues are with my own reconciling of the truths in the Bible, and with people who actively impose their views on others through force.
Go with God and stay true to yourself, my friend!
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:09pmPeace.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:30pm@locked
The word inspiration literally means “God-breathed” in the Greek. And because Scripture is breathed out by God, it is true and inerrant. Consider the following syllogism:
Major Premise:
God is true (Romans 3:4).
Minor Premise:
God breathed out the Scriptures (2 Timothy 3:16).
Conclusion:
Therefore, the Scriptures are true (John 17:17).
Jhn 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth.
As illustrated above, the inerrancy of Scripture can be inferred by premises that are themselves taught by Scripture.
We read in Scripture that truth is an attribute of God (Jeremiah 10:10; John 1:14; 14:6; 17:3), and that God speaks truthfully – that is, He does not lie (Numbers 23:19; 1 Samuel 15:29; Titus 1:2; Romans 3:3-4).
We also are told that Scripture is “breathed out” by God (2 Timothy 3:16).
The Word of God, then, is true (John 17:14,17; cf. Psalm 119:142; 151; 160; Revelation 21:5; 22:6).
In 2 Samuel 23:2 we read the following words from the mouth of David: “The Spirit of the lord spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.” Here is a clear reference to a human being used as a mouthpiece for the spirit of God.
In 1 Thessalonians 2:13 Paul says, “For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.”
Report Post »BORNONTHEFOURTHOFJULY
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 11:18pmOh, so we should have black history month, but not honor the impact that the Bible has had on America? What most ignorant, uneducated Libs and athiests don’t realize is that it was Christians who overthrew slavery, and their strongest opponents were the Damcrats. At least until they learned how to lie about history, steal the credit, and then put blacks back on the Damocrat Plantation.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:37amBorn – No, we should not have black history month. Not unless every other race gets thier own month. We’d run out of months pretty quick. Some would say, “What about the black’s oppression and subsequent deliverance? Should it not be recognized?” Sure it should. In classrooms all across America. But if we’re going to give a special time of remebrance to people, why shouldn’t the Jews have one?
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 6:01pm@gup
Report Post »nice try at syllogism. There’s only one problem with your post, and you highlighted it yourself by saying: “As illustrated above, the inerrancy of Scripture can be inferred by premises that are themselves taught by Scripture.” That is a prime example or circular reasoning if I ever saw one. In other words, what you’re saying is: “The bible is the true inerrent word of God because the bible says it’s the true inerrent word of God”. Try using that logical fallacy in court and see how long you last.
SquidVetOhio
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:00pmMuch of the slavery at that time was voluntary, endentured servitude. Many slaves were treated as family and were left inheritances along with their freedom. A greek or jewish slave could not have worked in many areas and would have starved or been homeless if not for endentured servitude. It was much different than the oppressive slavery that took place here. People need to learn some history.
Also, read the journals of the african slave traders. Some of them believed they were being merciful taking the slaves to the U.S. because of the brutality of which the rival tribes treated them. I’m not justifying that, but it’s what they believed.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:08pmand there were many slave owners in the world who were black.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:11pmSo true. In fact, under Judaic Law, a slave had to be allowed to eat at the same table and sleep in a bed that was of at least equal quality to his masters. In addition, slavery was usually only temporary. A slave that refused to go free after serving his time would have a nail driven through his ear lobe.
Report Post »KathleenElsie
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 1:26pmFor many salves in history it was a way in life to provide safety for their families. Yes some were taken advantage of and even physically abused. The fact is that most of them were fairly treated throughout history.
Report Post »Someone mentioned that many of the descendents of the slaves can trace their ancestry back far enough. This holds true for most of us in the USA. Most of the time our searches only go back to a boat manifest and no farther.
wordweaver
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:59pmTwo words: cultural context.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:05pmAmen WORD!!! But Atheists don’t want to be bothered with cultures beyond their daily lives.
It would be the equivalent of saying today “give an honest days work” or represent Christ well by being a good employee.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:09pmIn what context is it ever okay to take slaves from conquered nations?
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:15pmExactly, your God commanded slavery, therefore it’s just and righteous!
Your God commanded Abraham to kill his son, therefore it’s a moral act!
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:30pmLast I check Mod God also stopped Abraham from killing his son; but hey lets not let facts get in the way of your agenda.
You take one line of scripture and proclaim it was God’s will. In order to understand the Bible and scripture, you must have the context at the time. God was still establishing his rules; some people followed them, some people did not. We can’t change the past, it has already happened. We don’t have to agree with it or agree with it; the lesson is did we learn anything? What seems barbaric now, was the norm during that time. Does not make it right or wrong, it just makes it so.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:37pm@COFEMALE
I left that point out on purpose…….because I knew someone would come with that line of defense and it’s horribly easy to see why your defense is illogical.
Whether or not God stopped Abraham is IRRELEVANT.
Fact is, Abraham was doing an immoral act…..because he thought it was moral since God commanded it. He thought it was in God’s character to demand a sacrifice of a son(which is kind of ironic since he does send Jesus).
The outcome is irrelevant to my point.
Abraham was doing an inherently immoral act because his God commanded it.
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:50pmGood point, Mod. Somehow, that bit of reason never occurs to those who are religious. I made it a point in my book, just released, in fact. The very reason that Abraham never questioned the request is exactly as you have layed out here. He didn‘t question what he didn’t feel was out of his god’s character to require of him.
Report Post »VinnieCCT
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:53pmMod, though you are without spirit, God has used you to proclaim truth. Your comment above unwittingly proclaims the importance of John 3:16. Abraham was close to God and did struggle with Gods command, it was his faith that saved Israel. It was a prophesy of what was to come later.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:58pmModerationisbest, regarding Abraham killing his son:
God was establishing His covenant with Abraham that the just would live by faith, not by works.
Gal 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, ” THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH.”
Gal 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
Gen 15:5 Then He brought him outside and said, “Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.”
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;
18 it was he to whom it was said, “IN ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS SHALL BE CALLED.”
19 He considered that God is able to raise people even from the dead, from which he also received him back as a type.
The command to offer his son Isaac was a test of Abraham’s faith, and a foreshadow of God offering his son Jesus Christ as a substitution for all of us. Once Abraham demonstrated that faith, God then commanded him to stop and use a ram instead
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:35pmGup, . . .it matters not what you believe the purpose of this god’s request was. Abraham did not believe it was out of his god’s character TO ask for a human sacrifice. That’s the point. Twist it with a cherry on top if you want, but it was still an immoral request.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 8:49pm@DEAVONREYE
No matter how many times or how we word it, logical conclusions like this just won’t resonate with the majority of believers.
As I have said on other threads regarding American history vis-a-vis the Indians, slavery, treatment of women, etc it is human nature to look at ones own history, put a silver bow around the good stuff and shove aside the bad aspects.
Don‘t you think it’s ironic that people say we “discovered” America? Discovered it? There were already people here!
People also say that God played a role in bringing people here, setting up Christianity, etc. They don’t realize that if God played a role in it, he also played a role in the murder of the original inhabitants to set up this great nation.
To speak about history in plain terms doesn’t mean I am ashamed, or hate our history. Speaking about history in such ways does prove a purpose of making sure we don’t repeat past mistakes.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:58pmGod would not condone what man has done to twist scripture to fit their desires…the atheists have no theological understanding of God’s Word…
It’s like an actor talking politics…dumber than dirt and ignorant they be…and they continue to show it daily…
Report Post »greatgrandma
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:57pmI was around when they took God out of our schools. I was around when they took the Pledge of Allegiance out of our schools. I was around when they started aborting fetuses, I‘ve been here when they ok’d afterbirth abortions, I am here now, and grateful that they tried but were unsuccessful in taking God out our money. But also in these last 50 yrs, I have seen this country spiral downward. What does this all say to me about this country? Bad Karma and it’s not over yet.
Report Post »Razorhunters
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:55pmpeople,
please think a min. atheist do not care…this is all part of what is happening to the us.
indoctrination
govt control
class/ religious warfare
the fall of the constitution
is all part of the plan to take down america.
read the 10 planks.
look behind the rhetoric
look to those funding the movement.
the information is out there.
Report Post »Razorhunters
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:06pmhmmm, if i wanted to takeover a company or country …
i would make the opposing parties fight each other
while i slipped in laws and regulations and people in power.
it would be a slow process…20 to 30 years.
each year would cause more and more dissent , while at the same time working behind the scenes.
no , no …that would be a conspiracy…that would be crazy.
do you even know what conspiracy means…?
Report Post »J_Ruben_Kincaid
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:54pmThe words and actions of the left are like something out of a movie about The Revelation or Daniel. We are now fully engaged against the spirit of antichrist.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:01pmYes we are.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:16pmWell it’s been on since the death of Christ…we’ve been living in the end times for over 2k years…and there is a quickening. In a blink of an eye! Maranatha!!!
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:24pmActually, the verse is not complete. There are other verses that expand on the “Slave” part are:
22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. 23 Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, 24 since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving. 25 Anyone who does wrong will be repaid for their wrongs, and there is no favoritism.
It means that one should not resort to the same thing that another does. The work we do is for the Lord not the human. Our work is for the prosperity of society not the human masters. The masters deeds will be judged by God. Just because they seemed to be favored by God now, these verses say it will not be the same in the life after.
If you read the other verses before, you will see that the whole chapter is about turning the other cheek and freeing one’s self from earthly desire (IE materialism). In fact, the whole chapter suggests the complete opposite of the progressive agenda.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:54pmWe‘re sorry President George Washington we know you didn’t fight for the America that you wanted , only to see some bunch of loons bringing down the value & the message of this great Nation .
Then conquer we must, when our cause is just,
Report Post »And this be our motto: “In God is our trust”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!
momrules
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:52pmI am sick to my very soul of atheists. As a Christian I try to pray for all of them, that they find Jesus before it is too late, but as an honest human being I must admit that praying for them is getting harder and harder to do.
They have access to the same salvation we all do and they have rejected it.
Mark 6:11…..And whosoever shall not recieve you, nor hear you, when you depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall br more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement than for that city.
America is becoming a country (city) that the ungodly are controlling more and more each day.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:58pmUh, Atheists aren’t the only ones who have rejected Jesus.
Muslims reject Jesus, as do Jews, as do Buddhists, as do the many other billions of people who worship one of the many other million Gods.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:07pmActually Moderationisbest, I pray for all unbelievers so I guess that includes you. And the only ones who hate Christianity are the atheist and the Muslims.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:07pm@Moderation
“Muslims reject Jesus, as do Jews”
Not necessarily. Muslims accept Jesus as a prophet who hearkened Mohammad. They also believe he is the savior and will return at the end of days along with Mohammad to battle the Anti-Christ. They don’t accept him being the literal Son of God, however.
You are correct that Jews reject Jesus, even as a prophet, as most say that Malachi was the final prophet. Some of the more liberal Jews these days will claim he was a great Rabbi, but most orthodox denominations simply label him apostate.
Buddhists don’t reject Jesus; they simply don’t interact with Christianity and are thus mum on the subject. Silence is not rejection.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:16pmI know exactly how you feel, MOM. But stand strong. Remember they hated Him first and He told us to expect exactly what is happening. It’s tough some days to remember the troubles here are “light and momentary” and our days are like the blink of the eye for eternity. But persevere, Sister, to the finsh line. Your reward is not of this world. : )
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:21pm@LOCKED
Obviously I’m saying that Muslims reject Jesus as the messiah, son of God, etc.
As for Buddhists, your statement makes no sense. That would then imply that at the end of their lives, with no recognition of Jesus as their savior, that they would then get into Heaven because, “hey, they never rejected him either, they were mum.”
Be rational and logical please.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:30pmThank you COPATRIOTS. Even we Christians need some encouragement from other Christians sometimes. At least this Christian does.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:36pm@Moderation
“As for Buddhists, your statement makes no sense. That would then imply that at the end of their lives, with no recognition of Jesus as their savior, that they would then get into Heaven because, “hey, they never rejected him either, they were mum.””
I think you’re looking at the wrong angle. I‘m saying the teachings of Buddhism do not reject nor accept Christ simply because he’s not mentioned. In the same way, you can’t say that Christianity rejects Buddhism; it simply doesn’t mention it. Individual passages might contradict, but you’ll never find Christ saying “Hey, don’t believe in meditation,” or Buddha saying, “When that Christ fellow comes along, just ignore him. Especially about loving others.”
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:49pm@LOCKED
Yes but you are arguing semantics.
You also keep arguing about the moral teachings of Buddhism and Christianity which isn’t the point behind Christianity.
Someone can follow the teachings of Jesus, without thinking he is the son of God, etc.
I’m sure you would classify that as a “rejection” of Christ in the sense that really matters ie Accepting Jesus is your lord and savior, died on the cross for your sins, and rose 3 days later, etc etc etc.
If I follow the teachings of Christ, but don’t accept him as my lord and savior, etc, etc then I’m going to hell.
If I accept Jesus as my savior, but struggle to follow his teachings, but repent, I will go to heaven.
You are talking about the rejection/acknowledgement of teachings vs rejection of the divinity of Jesus.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:52pm“You are talking about the rejection/acknowledgement of teachings vs rejection of the divinity of Jesus.”
Oh, in that case, then yes. By rejection, I was referring to teachings, not divinity. Sorry for misunderstanding.
Report Post »Peter Yohansen
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:52pmWe are ALL slaves to sin, and can only be redeemed through Jesus Christ. Showing a picture like that on the billboard is meant to trigger an emotional response of hatred towards Christians who agree that slavery is in fact wrong.
If he’s complaining about real slavery in the world today, (which obviously he’s not) he should take a trip to Mauritania, I‘m sure they’d be glad to show him how it works.
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:43pmDidn’t see in the article the FACT that the abolition movement in England and America was a Christian movement — a movement by Christians who believed in and cited to the Bible for support of their movement.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:57pmAnd it is a FACT that many religious establishments promoted and reinforced the institution of slavery, so what is your point?
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:06pmAtheists are like sheep and no not what they do…All they see are the bad things in life or what they think are bad things and blame man who may have erred…after all they are human…God’s word is clear on the subject of color. How can man with a finite mind understand the infinite wisdom of God without studying scripture to get a glimpse of God’s face, His way, no mans way?
AT the cross God does not view anyone by the color of their skin…at the cross we are all equal…The constitution recognizes this, and MLK said it…it is as clear as the nose on one’s own face.
Report Post »cookcountypatriot
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:41pmimagine…progressive white slaves having a problem with slavery…the yoke of hate they wear is an express ticket to the lake of fire…buh bye haters
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:56pmSlavery AKA the welfare system of entitlements…
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:47pmSo true! But this world is upside down. Jesus reminded everyone that though there is oppression in the world, but through Him we are already free. Some want to enslave others for power, some for money. Some even sell themselves for “stuff”, signing over their freedom to lenders. But God warns us never to voluntarily surrender our freedom to anyone. He teaches us to care for the oppressed, and to trust in His protection, seeking His freedom:
Ps. 106:36 And served their idols, Which became a snare to them.
Jesus’ view on slavery?
Matt 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
Matt 11:28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
Report Post »JEANNIEMAC
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:40pmThere appears to be an “organized” effort by atheists to ridicule and destroy Christianity and Judaism.
Report Post »This is the aim of communists, who have to rid our nation of any religious influences. Our religions teach free will and morality. Communists/atheists are behind these efforts. Who is funding them?
CatB
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:48pmAs with all things ..follow the money … and has anyone else noticed how INTOLERANT these people are … I don’t see Christians or Jews dragging people into their institutions … how are the athiests being “harmed”?
Report Post »mike_trivisonno
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:38pmI often wonder how much of the militant atheist movement has been usurped by muslims and is now just mischief making, or fitna, to further the goal of Jihad.
It always seems conveniently NEVER mention Islam.
Just a little odd…
Report Post »RobMac68
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:44pmI agree. Islam is supposedly the fastest growing religion these days but yet the atheists only attack Christianity…..hmmmm….something to think about
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:48pmIf you read the article one of the guys behind the billboard mocked Islam and got attacked by a Muslim.
Now he mocks Christianity and gets his property vandalized.
Not much better of a response.
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:01pmThats changing too. Aethists are starting to go after muslims and jews as well.
Report Post »mike_trivisonno
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:47pmThanks for the info.
Report Post »cariboodragon
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:07pm“ ALL ” organized religion is man made, ask Jesus if he was supposed to die for our sins why did he resurrect himself after three days? Ask God why he can create and destroy everything that ever was and will be but cannot rid one single planet of a fallen angel that is supposedly causing so much grief. My God kicks a** and takes names, he kicked the cra* out of Satan a long time ago, there is no such thing as sin in my world my God was tough enough to take care of all of that with no problem remember God created everything and is the all powerful alpha entity in charge of everything. Your God doesn’t seem to have the power to control much of anything. Genesis 1 : 26 – And God said, Let “ us ” make man in “our ” image, after “our ” likeness. who is GOD talking to here? Please explain somebody that studies the Bible. Seems to me he was talking with somebody when he was supposedly the only game in town. Anyways my God took care of all the bad things in life a long time ago without the need to make humans live in fear and guilt because someone says that they need to live forever in the clouds and they cannot if they don’t follow edicts written in a book by man. Please do not make fun of my beliefs because my God will seriously kick the snot out of your weak little girly man of a God okay. by the way your God used his supposed authority to coerce a human to bear a child after wisking her up to the heavens, that is called kidnapping and rape be it physical or phycologica
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:37pm“Jesus is my master and I obey him.”
Wow, no mention of obeying the Constitution. Glad to know.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:45pmUnalienable Rights… come from GOD…
Report Post »dpselfe
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:49pmNo one else is obeying the Constitution……..I guess if your role models are Obama or Bush (there’s really no difference between the two), then that makes perfect sense.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:51pmUh, where is your response coming from? It has nothing to do with my comment.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:02pmThe constitution was written by Christians, so there is no conflict for us- it is very Biblical.
Though freedom in this world is stolen through oppression, we can survive with our souls in tact, because Jesus purchased the freedom for all who will partake, for all of eternity. And tyrants of the world cannot take this from us, for we are the captives that He set free!
And God would heal our nation and world if we really believed in freedom for all and kept to His commands:
Is 58:6 “Is this not the fast which I choose, To loosen the bonds of wickedness, To undo the bands of the yoke, And to let the oppressed go free And break every yoke? 7 “Is it not to divide your bread [fn3] with the hungry And bring the homeless poor into the house; When you see the naked, to cover him; And not to hide yourself from your own flesh? 8 “Then your light will break out like the dawn, And your recovery will speedily spring forth; And your righteousness will go before you;
The glory of the LORD will be your rear guard. 9 “Then you will call, and the LORD will answer;
You will cry, and He will say, ‘Here I am.’ If you remove the yoke from your midst,
The pointing of the finger and speaking wickedness, 10 And if you give yourself to the hungry
And satisfy the desire of the afflicted, Then your light will rise in darkness And your gloom will become like midday…
When we obey, we are blessed. Because we know Christ, our Saviour from bondage.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:58pm@TEXAS.7
The Bible was written by SOME Christians.
The Constitution is not based off the Bible. The Bible has nothing to do with our civil law.
Jesus has been eroding our Constitution since its inception.
Politicians serve Jesus before they serve the Constitution.
Your job as a politician is to uphold the Constitution, not the Bible.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 7:31pmModerationIsBest,
Report Post »Your post makes no sense to me. If the Constitution is based on Biblical truths, recognising God given rights, then obeying the Constitution poses no ethical dilemma for Christians. I don’t know of a Christian who has an issue with any part of the constitution. It is the liberals who keep abandoning it in their role as lawmakers. Are you saying you agree with the Constitution, and therefore, agree with us that it has been violated in recent years by liberal lawmakers???
ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 8:44pm@TEXAS.7
The Constitution mentions a Creator, not a God.
My parents created me.
It doesn’t matter how someone is created, the Constitution says we are all endowed with those rights.
Our founders wrote about life liberty and the pursuit of happiness, while also owning other human beings.
They are directly contradicting themselves there.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:33pmAnd, Christ said: I have come to Free you from Slavery — And, the Hebrews (Slaves in Ancient Egyptian) said: We have never been Slaves!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:43pmWhat Bible verse is this exactly?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:03pmLuke 4:18
Wow MOD it‘s almost as if you knew the atheist agenda since it’s one of your main “talking points” on a daily basis. When, again, it was Yankee Christians who most advanced the abolishment of slavery in this country.
A women‘s rights billboard can’t be far behind……….
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:11pm@COPATRIOTS
What is the context of that verse? How do we know that Jesus wasn’t talking about the slavery of sin and not actual physical slavery?
I don’t care who lead what, fact is both sides used Bible verses to prove their arguments. It’s a sick joke.
You still refuse to answer my question about how our founders can talk about life, liberty, freedom, pursuit of happiness…….WHILE owning other human beings?
It is illogical and nonsensical to talk about freedom while owning someone else.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:14pm@MOD…
Report Post »John 8:32-33
Locked
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:15pm“Luke 4:18″
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free”
Somehow, that’s nothing like what Lukerw wrote.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:19pmMOD, you have zero interest in discussion but are here to repeat your talking points in multiple posts and advance your atheist philosophy on every possible thread. Your agenda is quite clear and I have no interest in indulging your daily towing of the line.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:30pm@LUKERW
Exactly, read the next line.
34 : Jesus replied, “I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin.”
Once again Christians twisting scripture to fit their agenda. This had nothing to do with physical slavery, but spiritual slavery.
@COPATRIOTS
You are the one who has the agenda. You REFUSE to answer my question(because you can’t answer it), which is why I keep asking it.
Answer my question, even if it’s “I don’t know.” That’s fine. I don’t expect you, me or anybody else to be able to know and understand everything. We’re all humans, we all have faults.
My question is simple, “How can our founders justify talking about freedom, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, while also owning another human being?”
If your answer is “I don’t know”, again that’s fine.
Just please don’t have a ignorant view of history as it seems common for people to do nowadays.
Our founders had some great, life changing, awesome ideas. They were also lacking morally in some other areas. To ignore that last fact, is to be a slave to your own agenda, misunderstanding and ignorance.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:43pmHow do you buy products, MOD? So many come from China and their “slave labor” is abhorrent! Why do you support that culture?
Why do you put gas in your car? Don’t you know how much petro comes from Muslim and/or third world countries and how they treat women in those cultures? Every time you drive your car you support the horrific treatment of women.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:47pmNot at all ignorant of cultures having experienced so many of them around the world. You should get off of the internet and travel some. It would do you a world of good.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:54pm@COPATRIOTS
I don’t buy apple products because of Foxconn.
I agree though, we should not buy products from countries that have such horrible conditions. I would be fine with legislation that we only do business with companies who have humane working conditions.
You once again didn’t answer my question, even when I said I understand if you wanted to say “I don’t know.”
This little snippet shows you are the one who is interested in winning arguments(or not losing them) and aren’t interested in a discussion. Please don’t accuse me of the very things you are doing.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:05pmNot at all MOD. Your getting very good at your agenda though. I‘ve said before and I’ll say again. Cultural context. You have no desire to grasp the culture at that time. If you did, you wouldn’t be asking me and would read books from that era. You are not interested in understanding history and cultures, only advancing your agenda.
250 years from now many will be asking why we bought products from cultures with whom we vehemently disagree about their conditions. Eventually, Christians abolished slavery in this country. But, the fact that some founders had slaves was a result of the culture at that time. Some founders also refused to have slaves. But the fact is that not all were treated horribly as well as the culture had not yet advanced to allow other means of employ explains why many chose to remain when they could have been freed. You’ve never explained why many chose to be bond-slaves or indentured servants if slavery was always horrific.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:12pm* “You’re”, not “your” correction above.
I merely used example to help you try to understand cultural context. We’ve known for decades about the inhumane conditions of the Asian people. Why does it still exist? You may avoid Apple but I have no doubt no own other Chinese made product. I am quite sure you put gas in your car supporting Muslim countries. You are no different in your culture than the founders were in theirs. I can imagine they justified it every bit as much as you do. Thankfully, Christian instruction advanced and slavery was rightly abolished. What do you think would have occurred without Christians using Jewish slavery to help early Americans understand why they should fight and die to end slavery in this country?
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:19pmAnd MOD, we have had a similar discussion to this before. You just like to add new twists to bully the thread with your debate and philosophical skills……..which are both admirable, BTW. As stated before, we have different and irreconcilable viewpoints. I have no desire to attempt to prolong the discussion to help you advance your agenda on yet another thread. Because that really is what it’s all about for you….. Be well
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:40pm@COPATRIOTS
Cultural context has nothing to do with our founders fighting for liberty, life, pursuit of happiness, freedom while owning other human beings.
There is no logical or rational discussion as to why they would be writing that while also owning other people. They were being hypocritical there.
Again as you said, there were Christians who fought against slavery, and there were Christians who fought for slavery. Both sides had Bible passages to back up their view point.
I agree that in 250 years we will be asking why we do what we do, which is exactly my point. There is no such thing as object morality.
Our morality evolves over time and the only thing we can do is try to learn from history and to not repeat the horrors that have already been done.
Again like before, you seem to agree with me that there is no absolute morality. We live our life, learn from history and our morality evolves with that.
Again, it’s human nature to take ones own history and only look at the good aspects and not the bad aspects. There’s always an attempt to put a silver lining on our actions and again, it’s human nature.
To change history to fit your own view point is wrong.
Report Post »Bad_Ashe
Posted on March 9, 2012 at 2:52am@MOD & @COPATRIOTS
Since COPATRIOTS asked, I posted my views on this debate over in the other thread.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/atheist-accuses-jews-of-religious-bigotry-after-landlord-refuses-to-display-myth-billboard/
Context certainly does matter, but I reframe the argument a bit different than COPATRIOTS does. Feel free to look in on my posts and take from them what you will.
Cheers!
Report Post »PurrrpleMtnMajesty
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:33pmChristians DO accept the entire bible. If you had any true intelligence rather than educational brain washing you’d realize that some parts were written for a society that existed thousands of years ago.
Report Post »If you wish to attack slavery, then go to Egypt, the cradle of civilization, and get on their case.
ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:41pm@PURRRPLEMTNMAJESTY
Here we go again, “slavery is okay because God said it was.”
My my, what a loving God.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:47pmI can find statements from the old testament that were anti slavery.
Such as the one that says if a slave escaped you do not turnover to his former master.
Report Post »SquidVetOhio
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:56pmHe never said that slavery was ok you dolt. He said slavery existed in the Roman empire. The teaching were for slaves to be good to their masters regardless of if slavery is right or wrong. Just because they are talking about the reality of slavery, doesn’t mean God is ok with it. Moses had to deal with divorce, David and Soloman had multiple wives. NOWHERE in the Bible did it claim that God was ok with it. Educate yourself before you open your mouth and prove your ignorance.
Read Philemon. It directly deals with a christian slave and his christian owner.
God’s not ok with abortion, yet it is a reality worse than slavery.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:08pm@SQUIDVETOHIO
Wow, way to call me an dolt. Do Christians know their own book?
“Leviticus 25:44-46: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. You can will them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.” (NIV)”
That is just ONE example.
Also, the original poster said, ” If you had any true intelligence rather than educational brain washing you’d realize that some parts were written for a society that existed thousands of years ago.”
The word FOR means that it was written BY God FOR that society. The OP wasn’t saying, “This was a book, and it acknowledged slavery” but it was written FOR that society. I won’t even go into the horrors that Moses commanded.
Also, are you going to refute my overall claim?
If God deems something to be okay, is it then okay and not immoral because God commanded it?
Much like everything else, people take the good parts of their history and focus on those aspects, and take all the horrible stuff and ignore it or try to twist it like it was misinterpreted or not as bad.
It‘s human nature so I don’t blame you, but it really is silly.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:09pm@MODERATIONISBEST
The Bible uses the same word for “slave” as for “servant” and “bondservant” or “indentured servant.” In fact, people sold themselves into slavery, and typically there was a contract (same concept perhaps as a professional athlete). “Slaves” had all the same rights as any other citizen, they just owed their labor to their masters. Furthermore, every 50 years at the year of Jubilee the slaves were freed. Additionally it was required that a person who owned servants had to allow those servants to be redeemed by their family or countrymen for a reasonable price. Furthermore, if they physically mistreated their servants (for example by putting out an eye or breaking a tooth) they had to immediately release them. Furthermore if someone else’s slave escaped to them, the law stated they could not return a slave who had escaped from a master to his or her former master.
Slavery in that day was like having a job where your compensation was food, clothing, shelter, prestige, and money. Often, slaves of rich people were themselves extremely wealthy, having slaves of their own.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:56pm@GUP20
Again, read my verse on Leviticus.
It talks about WILLING your slaves to your children.
The Bible is clear on this yet people try to spin it to make it seem like it’s saying something else.
Report Post »Gup20
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:52am@MODERATIONISBEST
Willing your servant to a future generation is no big deal… It’s like willing your assets to your children. In these days, slaves were people with human rights. It’s like trading a professional athlete to another team. The thing you “owned” when you owned servants was their labor, not their life. It wasn’t until Darwin popularized the evolutionary story that the narrative of slaves being less than human really took footing.
For example, Jacob (Israel) loved a girl named Rachel and agreed to work for her father Laban for 7 years to marry her. At the wedding, Jacob got drunk and Laban pulled a fast one, putting the older daughter Leah in his bedroom instead of Rachel. In the morning when Jacob woke up and realized what had happened, he made another agreement to work for another 7 years to marry Rachel. So he was a “slave” for 14 years.
Your idea of what it means to be a slave is completely different from what it meant to be a slave (or a servant) in that time. Your notion of slavery is heavily influenced by Darwin’s popularization of evolutionistic theory and the negative impact it had on classifying certain people groups as less than human, thus justifying a completely abhorrent mindset toward slaves and servants that would have been abnormal and foreign to the Jews in the days of Leviticus. For example, if you mistreated a slave and the slave was injured the law said the slave had to be immediately released.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 9:23pm@GUP20
Uh no, if I trade a player to another team, the person can refuse to go. They can flat out quit.
Are you saying that people back then could CHOOSE not to be slaves without fear of physical harm to them or their family?
That argument is disingenuous.
Report Post »ripley
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:31pmSo now we are listening to a bunch of atheists quoting the Bible out of context? They are nut jobs.
Report Post »dealer@678
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:41pmDoes he have the balls to put a sign bashing islam and the koran. I hope so
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:44pmIn what context is it ever okay to have slaves from conquered nations? O_o
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:49pmWhen is it ever contextually okay to take slaves of conquered nations? O_o
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:15pmI don‘t know why don’t you ask the Egyptians that held the Jews as slaves or perhaps the Babylonians who held the Jews as slaves? Everyone thinks only blacks were held as slaves in history. I am not saying this is correct, but it did happen throughout history to Christians, Jews, and Blacks. However, since blacks were the last group to be freed, they are the only slavery people think about.
If you think about it today, there is still slavery. When men capture young women for the sex trade, when men capture young black children to serve in their armies. Slavery is still prevalent, but the world remains silent except for a few. Why are you not yelling to the masses?
Report Post »DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:26pmSeems it would have been a better commandment [in the 10 commandments] rather than some of the more obvious ones. :-/
However, it was god who told who they could take as slaves from conquered nations. If there HAD been a “Thou shalt not enslave another person” commandment, slavery wouldn’t have been a part of our countries beginnings.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:04pmDeavonReye:
Report Post »Jesus told us to LOVE ONE ANOTHER and that LOVE WAS TO TRUMP OVER ANY PREVIOUS LAWS. Love means ANY HUMAN, AND ESPECIALLY OUR ENEMIES (of the cross). Jesus came to FULFILL THE LAW OF MOSES, not to replace it. However, he warned us that if we LOVED God, we would love all His creation. What part of love allows you to enslave others?
DeavonReye
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 4:12pmSo that means that god didn’t love those who the Hebrews enslaved, after destroying their culture and killing most of them? As I thought.
Understand what I am saying here. Don’t look at it as “a heathen who hates god”, but as an insight to what Old Testament [and even some New Testament] actions truly mean. These actions were [according the the bible] commanded BY god, . . . some just because they were in the way. So when you bring up “love”, it should be easy to see why many non-believers don’t see the OT god as being “love” at all.
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