PA Town Removes 57-Year-Old Nativity Scene From Gov’t Building: ‘Highly Disrespectful’
- Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:28pm by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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A small Pennsylvania town has removed a Nativity scene from its borough building after a resident complained that the creche is offensive to non-Christians. And while town leaders say they don’t like having to remove it, they say they are legally obligated.
WPXI in Pittsburgh reports Canonsburg Borough and its Manager Terry Hazlett received a written complaint last week from resident Megan Hartley who said the creche was disrespectful to citizens who aren‘t Christian and that it shouldn’t be displayed at a government building.
“I think that it is highly disrespectful to the citizens of this Borough that are not Christian to have Christian iconography displayed on government property,” she reportedly wrote, “a government that is supposed to represent all of the citizens, not just the majority.”
In response to the complaint, Hazlett asked the local Knights of Columbus chapter, which owns the scene and has been displaying it at the borough buiding for 57 years, to remove it. The group obliged, and has since relocated the creche to a nearby business.
That upset local Knights of Columbus member Robert Clark, who told the Observer-Reporter that the removal of the creche offends him.
“I think that we have to show tolerance to one another,” Clark said. “It’s disrespectful to my rights, too.”
According to the Canonsburg Borough website, a dozen people showed up at Monday night’s council meeting to protest the move. There, town Mayor David Rhome said he has received several calls questioning why the creche was moved, and asked the council to reconsider.
That request was denied.
Council President Joe Milioto replied that the council took an oath to “uphold federal, state and local laws,” and referred the matter to Solicitor Patrick Derrico. Derrico reponded by denying to take up the case.
“I personally like the Christmas scene, and I am a member of the Knights of Columbus. Council must uphold the laws of the land,” he said. “If council wants to spend their private money to fight this or if individual citizens want to take this up, that’s okay, but the Christmas scene should not be on public property.”
“I didn’t want to do this either, but didn’t feel I had a choice. It’s a separation of church and state issue,” Hazlett told the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. “We know what happened in Pittsburgh when they challenged it.”
“I didn’t feel we had a choice in the matter. If they took us to court, we would probably lose,” he added. “It takes taxpayer money to defend yourself in court.”
That sentiment is echoed by Mayor David Rhome. In an interview with The Blaze he said the town is caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.While he believes the creche should be allowed, and says that his constituents want it there, the fact remains the courts have decided it cannot.
“In the world we live in, the courts dictate what we can do,” he said. “The law is the law.”
The law he’s talking about refers to a relevant U.S. Supreme Court case that took place in another Pennsylvania town. In County of Allegheny vs. ACLU, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that a nativity scene on the steps of the County Courthouse violated the First Amendment’s establishment clause.
Rhome explained that Megan Hartley has complained about the creche in the past, but always after the Christmas season and always verbally. This time, she complained at the height of the season and put it in writing. When that happened, Rhome said, there was nothing the town could do to stop the removal. He said the town leaders met and decided together to remove the creche.
For now, Rhome‘s instructed Derrico to do additional research to see if there’s anything the town can do to return the creche to its long-time home. But that could be a long shot.
“Merry Christmas,” Rhome remarked as he ended his conversation with The Blaze, “if I’m even allowed to say that anymore.”
Editor’s note: Quotes from the town‘s mayor were added after he responded to The Blaze’s request for comment post publication.
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Comments (485)
MeteoricLimbo
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:59pmSome religions speak “of” their God. Others seem to speak “for” theirs……..
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:39pmthis moron was born in 1977, her interests are atheism and angels [go figure], vampires, and is ranting on her blog how her parents didn’t wake her up to join them for THANKSGIVING dinner. she hates where she lives and it sounds like she hates her life.
I would think the ENTIRE TOWN would have some power OVER the demands of a SICK PSYCHOTIC living in a basement somewhere.
Report Post »advent2
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 4:05pmMohammed was visited by an angel many times and look what he came up with…
Report Post »mrclean
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 8:28pmNo doubt, she’s a chicken $#!+ coward; removed the comments area from her blog about this issue. She sounds disgustingly smug and completely wrapped up in herself proudly saying “I made the news!” And how it bums her out that the Christians are somehow mad at her, think she’s trampling on their rights. “I even got interviewed!” Pride comes before a fall ya little smart-a$$.
This creature needs to be bombarded with Christmas cards, the little leftie 30-something.
Report Post »Patrick T.
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:56pmAs I recall, Christmas is a federal holiday. Our goverment reconizes the birth of Christ. What is offensive? I tell you what is offensive, the town letting one person dictate over the majority……..again. Disgusting
Report Post »George Washington
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 1:14pmNow you’ve done it. You just reminded the nut cases about something else they can complain about. They will get our Government to abolish the Christmas Holiday. Maybe it is time for us to display how offended we are by them. Let’s get them removed from OUR COUNTRY. With that said. Have a very MERRY CHRISTMAS and a healthy, happy & prosperous 2011.
Report Post »SND97
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:55pmThe Birth of ANY baby is offensive to liberals, all they care about is abortion, killing, and death of babies. If I offended any liberals? Whoopie! BITE ME!!!
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:08pmYou offended this pro-life lib who thinks that the nativity scene should have stayed. The lady who wanted it taken down was not exercising her right to free speech, she was engaging in censorship and barring somebody else’s free speech. Honestly, people need to look at these situations and blame the individual, not generalize.
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:54pmThis is a red herring.
Sorry but this is the wrong battle for Christians to fight. WE ARE PUTTING UP A LIVING NATIVITY SCENE ON OUR CHURCH PROPERTY THIS WEEKEND AT A BUSY INTERSECTION WHERE THOUSANDS WILL SE IT.
That’s how you deal with it.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:53pmAgreed!
This is the wrong battle for Christians to be fighting! We are not Muslims, we do not claim territory by putting up nativity scenes and crosses. I think it is ashame the way our government is going but it is a pointless fight. Jesus is in our hearts and is displayed in our lives. No one can prevent me from praying in a restaurant before I eat or telling everyone I see, “Merry Christmas…And…God bless you.” We stand for Christ by who we are and how we act. Not how big our town’s nativity scene is or what it says on our money. It is actually beginning to OFFEND me that our money STILL says “in God we trust” because our government has not trusted in God for some time now and it is a lie. When a nation turns from God it will fall. Let’s not disguise it here, the US is turning from God and what is written on our money is not going to change things. We have much bigger problems. Stand for Christ and pray for the world. As John says, come, Lord Jesus…Come…
Report Post »Bauervision
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:53pmSo a 57 year old tradition is scrapped because one person was offended? I highly doubt that by having a nativity scene on public grounds is a declaration that Christianity is the national religion now. Which by the way, would have to be the case if this was a 1st Amendment issue.
I think it is time for the States to rise up and start declaring what the State religions are. We have that power and I think we need to start using it. We don’t need to do it so that we can tax people because of it, nor do we need to apply a religious test, but there does need to be respect for holidays that the vast majority of this nation recognizes.
I’m not offended when DC lights the Menorah, nor would I be offended at a display of ramadan–whatever that is.
Anyone who is offended by a nativity scene should not receive holiday pay for Christmas.
Report Post »zeezil
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:51pmTo the Borough of Canonsburg::
We are a Judeo-Christian nation. We have been a Judeo-Christian nation prior to and since the founding of our country. We continue and still are a Judeo-Christian nation. We have not nor ever been an atheist nation. We have not nor ever been an agnostic nation. We have not nor ever been a Godless nation. Got it?
Put the nativity scene back up and go tell the whiners and complainers to go pound sand!!!
Merry Christmas (does that offend you, too?)
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:41pmthat vile moron was born in 1977, hates everything, is mad because her own parents didn’t wake her up to join them for Thanksgiving dinner, sounds like she lives in their basement, and she likes atheism and angels and vampires. SHE”S A LOON and the town caved to ONE PSYCHOTIC unhappy angry bitter failure LOSER LOON.
Report Post »My Two Cents
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:48pmCitizens of Pennsylvania: The Canonsburgh Burough council has offended me. Please remove it.
Report Post »Bauervision
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:02pmlove it, I second that
Report Post »REETZBEE
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:11pmDoes this mean if I complain about the annoying bell ringers in front of stores I could put a stop to it?
Report Post »ibcrazyru2
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 7:32pmDittos, count me in…
Report Post »shane2813
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:47pmGive these Leftist Loons a call @ 724-745-8850 and Terry Hazlett @ 724-745-1800. ext. 14. Burn up the phone lines.
Report Post »J.C. McGlynn
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:47pmPennsylvania. Translated means “Penn’s Woods.” William Penn is a Quaker by faith, an off shoot of the Christian religion. If Megan Hartly is so offended by “The Navitity Scene” she should be offended by living in Pa. and should demand the name be changed. Pa is, inherently by its founder, a Christian state.
Report Post »Camo Pants
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:46pm“A small Pennsylvania town has removed a Nativity scene from its borough building after a resident complained that the creche is offensive to non-Christians.”
My @ss, I’m an Atheist, that person should be ashamed. You shouldn’t care about ones religion in a public place, debating it is okay, but this is rediculous. I would actualy want it up, it is what they believe in. Would you want someone to take down what you believed in?
Report Post »Anonimouse
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:57pm@camo:
I think she would meet strong resistance getting anything “up” in the first place.
A sample of her writing:
“slowly and deftly ripping away flesh and letting it flutter to your feet. The delicate skin rips easily so being able to detach it in one piece takes practice but practice I’ve had. The inner arm, the inner thigh, the eyelids, the genitals, I can remove them all without a single tear.”
She’s a nutcase. Everyone in town is probably afraid of her.
Report Post »Camo Pants
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:27pmMore of a reason to jail her :D you can send people to the nut house. >.> JS.
Report Post »sinnersavedbygrace
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:39pmThank you!!!
Report Post »airbrnmtr
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:42pmOk so again if its better to offend many as long as a few are not? This is just like the TSA thing where we cant profile because a Muslim might be offended, so lets violate everyones Civil Rights. This is what the country has become! Time to get people in charge with backbones. The only reason why it was taken down is this town knows that if it wasnt and they were sued, some freaking judge would rule against them.
Report Post »garysgarden
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:42pmHmmmm, I distinctly remember hearing about John Stewart making fun of Gretchen Carlson because of her belief that there are those in this country who are out to remove any public mention of Christmas! Let’s try to remind John how NOT FUNNY he really is!
Report Post »Stevsea
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:41pmOur country was developed from Christian beliefs. Our government and laws were based on Christian beliefs. Should we also erase ‘In God we Trust’, all presence of Christianity, Moses etc from our federal buildings, currency, etc.? Therefore, yes I believe the Nativity Scene BELONGS on government property. When will these vermin finally leave this country that they hate so much?
Report Post »janddjohnson
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:21pmStevsea
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:41pm
Our country was developed from Christian beliefs. Our government and laws were based on Christian beliefs. Should we also erase ‘In God we Trust’, all presence of Christianity, Moses etc from our federal buildings, currency, etc.?
I believe that is these people’s hope..to erase everything Christian. I say its about time to fight back. These idiots offend me highly.
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:03pmJust saying, Moses was a Jew. Our nation was founded on Jewish beliefs.
Report Post »TEIN
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:40pmMaybe Council President Joe Milioto should not take “Christmas” as a paid holiday. Might cross the line of state and religion…
Report Post »liriadavila
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:40pmWhat a shame!
Report Post »nephewofdboone
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:37pmThe presence of those hate-filled, maleducated a-holes who are “upset” by the presence of christmas decorations is deeply offensive to me, but I won’t turn to the government when the time comes to make a difference.
Report Post »HEARDENOUGHCRAP
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 11:17pmNor will I turn to the government. I let HIM fight my battles, but I have to admit that I wish HIS time was my time. I would like to SEE HIS repremand!! These liberal lemmings will inheirit the earth…….and NOTHING else. Don’t think I would want it. My treasure is in Heaven.
Report Post »the_ancient
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:37pmAfter some Research, I found the person that complained has a Personal Blog, Looks like she is a Classic Liberal Vegan,
http://shakensilence.livejournal.com/
Report Post »Anonimouse
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:49pmWow. She’s one sick pup.
Report Post »Very odd what she enjoys, vs. what “offends” her.
Creepy. Feel sorry for her next-door neighbors. Probably not getting much sleep.
M31Sailor
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:04pmI ,for one, would love to live next to her. The Christmas music would be blaring loudly toward her house. All year long.
Report Post »Sailor
KenInIL
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:11pmLibs believe in democracy not a republic. Vote on it!
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:22pmA few of her friends and some of her interests, gee we could email her friends too, it’s tell off your favorite lefty atheist day!!!
afan21, angelofastheny, angelstoy, briandthebible, caffienekitty, delta_mai, dontgetanyolder, dragonydreams, dragonyphoenix, drea78, emeraldswan, eonen, fenderlove, fromtheashes095, gaelicspirit, gushgush, hostirad, hotfortwins, hypo_mechanic, lucy_ash, mabel_marsters, mistermoofoo, okdeanna, pamsblau, purplefeen2, rua1412, shakensilence, snogged, sodakey, spikesredqueen, thruterryseyes, velvetwhip, westonlockley, xfinally_free
Friend of (30):
afan21, angelofastheny, angelstoy, delta_mai, dontgetanyolder, dragonydreams, dragonyphoenix, drea78, emeraldswan, eonen, fenderlove, fromtheashes095, gushgush, hostirad, hotfortwins, hypo_mechanic, mabel_marsters, mistermoofoo, okdeanna, pamsblau, purplefeen2, rua1412, sd_herald, shakensilence, snogged, sodakey, spikesredqueen, thruterryseyes, westonlockley, xfinally_free
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Report Post »antitheism, atheist, atheistofftopic, b_smods, bad_swa, bipolar_support, c2c_buffyawards, darker_spike, darker_vault, idw_spike, nekid_spike, nha_fic, sb_fag_ends, soga_updates, spn_fics, spuffy_wonder, su_editors, su_herald, taboo_spuffy, trdmarkstoicism, whichwillow, willangelus, willowoz, winter_spillow
BurntHills
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:36pmfunniest is how she is offended her own family did not wake her up to join them for Thanksgiving… sounds like they didn’t want the hideous ranting troll to crawl up out of the basement. she must be really VILE.
Report Post »BOUGHT YOUR SILO YET?
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:59pmI am amazed at her boastfulness. You could tell that offensiveness and the constitution were not why she did this. I think her blog should be passed onto the manager of the Canonsburg Borough so they can reconsider the reason the nativity was removed.
Shocking that she celebrates Christmas. Poor thing can’t decide whether or not to face family ridicule by going to aunties CHRISTMAS party.
Report Post »Psytoxic
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:21pmLol, she closed the comments.
Report Post »zeezil
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:37pmWe are a Judeo-Christain nation. Not an agnostic nation. Not an atheist nation. Not a muslim nation. Not a Godless nation. Get over it!!!
Report Post »knotaclu
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:49pmah yes, but we are apparently also a PC nation, and it will be the death of us all….
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:02pmWe are founded on Judeo-Christian Principles but we aren’t a Judeo-Christian nation.
Report Post »MrButcher
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:19pmNo, the Constitution is quite secular.
The general populace, however, is Christian.
What “Judao-Christian” values are in our Constitution? None.
Note: The Jews never use the term “Judao-Christian.” Try saying it around them and watch their eyes roll.
——————————————–
That said, why don’t you christians put nativity scenes on your own property? Wouldn‘t a nativity scene in the yard of every christian send a stronger message than getting pissy over a gov’t building?
Furthermore, if we want to stick to the “traditional” American values of our founders, lets. But our Founders didn’t celebrate Christmas. The puritains considered it satanic. And congress regularly meet on Dec. 25 until the 1850′s when the modern incarnation of the holiday began to take shape.
just a thought
Report Post »@leftfighter
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:43pm@mrlogan3
Actually, you’re incorrect. You agree that we were founded on Judeo-Christian principles. That’s a good place to start. In fact, the Library of Congress agrees that the Founders found it was “appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.” This is how we were founded. http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel04.html
“The Constitution was reticent about religion for two reasons: first, many delegates were committed federalists, who believed that the power to legislate on religion, if it existed at all, lay within the domain of the state, not the national, governments; second, the delegates believed that it would be a tactical mistake to introduce such a politically controversial issue as religion into the Constitution.”
“In notes for his June 8, 1789, speech introducing the Bill of Rights, James Madison indicated his opposition to a “national” religion. Most Americans agreed that the federal government must not pick out one religion and give it exclusive financial and legal support.”
You get that? The Founders were perfectly fine with promoting religion, so long as everyone was able to practice, and yes, they promoted Christianity.
In today’s parliance, that would mean a Hannukah display right next to a Nativity scene. The prohibition (according to the Library of Congress, mind you) was against legal and financial support of a State religion (which several of the states had established), *not* on the practice of religion within government or on government property.
We continue to be a Judeo-Christian nation in all but literal name in practically every way, except in the minds of the secular Left, where any mention of religion in the public square must necessarily be eradicated. If you don’t believe that, just look at public polling that cites how many of us consider ourselves either Christian or Jewish.
I suggest you study up on the facts, from the Library of Congress. http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/religion.html
I‘ve been doing a large amount of research and am tweeting what I’ve found at http://www.twitter.com/founderstweets
Report Post »spendthrift
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:36pmObama offends me, can I remove him?
Report Post »Lana40
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:43pmI’ll second that motion :)
Report Post »neverending
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:49pmHe more then offends me!!!
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:17pmWe have a quorum gentlemen, the motion is carried. Now who goes and tells Obozo he no longer is welcome in America, I volunteer, anybody want to tag along?
Report Post »wolflady
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:17pmSpendthrift and Lana40; I’ll third it!!
Report Post »TrueGrit
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:37pmCan’t we just stick Bo and Mo on the front lawn for the holidays…
Now there’s a symbol for ya.
Wolverine
Report Post »LadyIzShy
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:40pmhere here
Report Post »yuekon
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:32pmAmen to that!!
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 8:02pmSPENDTHRIFT, if you plan to remove Obama, you better hurry, or you will soon have millions in competition with you for that honor.
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:36pmBig deal.
Report Post »They should have the Nativity scene
AS WELL AS
take the school kids to a local mosque too.
All in the name of tolerance ofcourse !
Let them get both sides of the story,
i e
how to celebrate life and how to kill in the name of religion
biggreenboo
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:14pmThank you!
Report Post »dkhartman
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:23pmNo one was forced to look at the nativity scene. Not even the same thing. Go home.
Report Post »TRUTHbeHEARD
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:33pmpeople still dont see it .there is a war out there between GOD and satan . so satan will use everybody and any thing to get u to denied JESUS CHRIST. maybe it would be better as this country was a christian nation.to have pics of a false gods and not the one true GOD CHRIST WE LIVE IN A FALLEN WORLD SO U PEOPLE BET TO LOOK UP SOON. but it is okay to teach the kids of the world. we came from a soupy mixture. we were created with a purpose people.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:35pmAre the gay pride parades on “public” streets? I find them offensive…stop them now.
Report Post »Anonimouse
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:41pm@ gonzo:
Me too. And I have a right not to be offended.
Report Post »It’s in the Constitution.
Right?
LOL
Bauervision
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:41pmAmen
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:34pmhey the vile woman has a blog and she sounds youngish, like possibly a total social failure. the vile woman‘s blog reads that her own family didn’t wake her up to join them for Thanksgiving dinner, sounds like she lives in their basement blogging all day…. she writes “how rude of them.” doesn’t that shout volumes if her own family does that to her! she must be REALLY vile. wouldn’t be surprised if she shows up protesting on the town streets ina hijab or burqa for the attention next.
Report Post »publiuswarmac9999
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:35pmHad a similar situation at the College of William and Mary a couple of years ago. A cross was removed from an historic chapel based on an anonymous complaint. The president of the college, Gene Nichols, was eventually forced out because alumni and local citizenry had enough of the political correctness. However, the College continues with its annual sex show and has placed the cross in a glass box.
Report Post »builderpro52
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:34pmKeep Christ in Christmas. That‘s why it’s called “Christmas”.
Report Post »George Washington
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 12:59amAMEN. Megan Hartley would not be able to make demands of her local government had our founding fathers, who were GOD fearing and GOD loving people not created our government as they did. That is why GOD is mentioned in various Federal Government buildings and on our money. Maybe Ms. Hartley needs to know that if she cannot tolerate the Christians and their symbols, who by the way, make up aproximately 84% of the population of The United States, she is free to move to any other country which will put up with her crap. So, Ms. Hartley. If you happen to read this, I want you to know that I, being a Christian, will tolerate your presence in this country. In fact, I wish you a very merry CHRISTMAS. May Jesus light your path throughout the rest of your life. After that, you can explain to HIM why Nativity Scenes offend you so much.
Report Post »DaytonConserve
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 5:09am“In the world we live in, the courts dictate what we can do,” he said. “The law is the law.”
The law he’s talking about refers to a relevant U.S. Supreme Court case that took place in another Pennsylvania town. In County of Allegheny vs. ACLU, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 that a nativity scene on the steps of the County Courthouse violated the First Amendment’s establishment clause.
Folks, the words they are most fearful of are “We The People”. Continue to remind them that their power to govern comes from us who derive our inalienable rights from God. Simply put, the progressives want us to forget God so they might convince us that our rights come from man.
May God continue to bless us as we celebrate the birth of his Son. Make your feelings known by greeting everyone you see with a hearty Merry Christmas!
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 7:55amAMEN– And breathfree must be one of them atheists in PA called the Free Thought bunch.his reply does not reflect what Joseph Story said of the First Amendment and the State encouraging religion.
Report Post »Neither does he reflect Thomas Cooley on the same subject.He does reflect the atheistic communistic ACLU though.
Fedupinpa
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:33pmSoooo, refresh my memory…..what law of the land is being broken?
Report Post »cheezwhiz
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:38pmThe koran forbids idol-worship.
Report Post »That law…
booger71
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:39pmSoooo, refresh my memory…..what law of the land is being broken?
None, there no clause in the 1st Amendment that separates the Church from the State.
Report Post »Lana40
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:42pmThat’s what I want to know. Is it the seperation of church and state? That law needs to be revisited and the American MAJORITY need to sue and sue some more until it’s heard, studied and ruled again!!!! So sick of the minority taken away our rights. We have a CHRISTMAS holiday because of CHRISTMAS. All of these so-called non-believers going to work on those days? Run the post office, the banks, go to school, yadda yadda? Not hardly. arghhhhhhhh!!!!
Report Post »knotaclu
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:44pmthe Good and Plenty one…..
Report Post »BreatheFree
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 8:36pmThe government can’t discriminate on religion. If it shows support for one, it’s gotta show support for all or none.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 10:14pmWhy aren’t there any Christian lawyers going on the offensive when it comes to the First Amendment? Humanism is a religion [Torcaso v. Watkins, 367 U.S. 488 (1961)] and Secularism is a doctrine of Humanism that promotes antitheism. When the government bans any mention of God from the public square at the request of Secular Humanists, not only is it prohibiting the free exercise of religion, it is respecting Humanism over all theistic religions. Come on, people, isn’t there a single Christian attorney in America who can argue that simple point all the way to the Supreme Court?
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“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof…” U.S. Const. am. 1.
Report Post »TEIN
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:31pm“…a government that is supposed to represent all of the citizens, not just the majority.”
Report Post »Once again the minority rule the majority. Whine and become offened and get catered to.
What has happen to the tolerance thing that all the minority call for??
Anonimouse
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:40pm@tein:
What tolerance? The lefties are all one way streets.
And I bet Ms. Hartley just moved into town. This 57 year old tradition holds no meaning for her. She simply wants it all her way.
Sheesh, these people need lives.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:41pmThen tell her to put up something that represents her religion. If she doesn’t have a religion then she should keep her mouth shut! I bet she isn’t going to win a popularity contest and, if I were her, I would watch my back. I can imagine there are many people, normal and otherwise, unhappy right about now.
Report Post »Camo Pants
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:48pm@Anon
Report Post »“And I bet Ms. Hartley just moved into town. This 57 year old tradition holds no meaning for her. She simply wants it all her way.”
She probably does, sad sad thing…
SemperCivis4Ever
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:49pmHATERS
THE 100 YEAR CONSPIRACY – These Communists-Socialists-Anarchists got their strategy and talking points from a movement called DADA which merged with the Progressives in 1918. They have infiltrated government and academia and some churches too. They hate liberty and want to kill God and Art.
FROM THE DADA MANIFESTO: “AFTER THE CARNAGE, WE ARE LEFT WITH THE HOPE OF A PURIFIED HUMANITY and “This task is not ordained by a supernatural force, but by a trust of ideas-merchants and academic monopolists”
The Progressive-Dada (their true name) politic and is fully explained here: http://www.marcrubin.com/dada2.ivnu. This online video and short essay, created by Marc Rubin, will open your eyes and connect the dots for you. The Artist has been fighting them for 35 years and learned about them from Salvador Dali, the front-line warrior since 1920.
THE META-CONSPIRACY OF THE “BAD GUYS” OF HISTORY SINCE 3000 BCE is the Progressive “framework”. See how it emerged as a consequence of the first wars of civilization.Listen: Israel National Radio interview of artist Marc Rubin at http://www.marcrubin.com/judean-eve.ivnu
101
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 1:55pm.
Report Post ».
Merry Christmas everyone…oops, am I allowed to say that?
Onecoolchicklady
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:03pmEvery single citizen should put a manger scene in their yard. “Jesus is the reason for the season” flags should be flying from every flagpole. It would be good just to remind ourselves what the season is all about.
MAULEMALL
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:09pmhttp://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10341/1108855-58.stm
Here as you can see is the nativity in question…
Scary
Report Post »FreeReligion.net
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:11pmIf I am offended by her presence will the government remove her form public buildings?
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:14pmYes, a baby Jesus that saved the world from eternal doom and his teachings of TRUE love and obedience is offensive? WTF? Boycott them, as WE have been very successful in doing so. Don’t give these commies one more inch!
Report Post »Stuck_in_CA
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:18pmGod is keeping score. People like these, have a rude awakening in store for themselves. That doesn’t mean we Christians should go down without a fight. The townspeople can out-smart these sobs.
Report Post »God will not be mocked.
1st a Father
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:20pmJust goes to show the left do not really believe in cultural diversity. I‘m sure there have been many times in recent history when art exhibits have been displayed on public property that reflect a culture’s religious beliefs. Watch for it, you‘ll see what I’m talking about. I believe they have every right to display such materials in the public venue.
By the way, how can the portrayal of the birth of a child in humble circumstance be considered an offense? True, the wise men didn’t really show up while the child was in the manger, just chalk it up to artist license. Art has a place in our society especially, it seems, on public property.
Separation between church and state was never included as part of the US constitution; freedom of religion and freedom of speech (expression) was. Judges, get this thing straight before it’s too late.
Report Post »APatriotFirst
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:22pmCanonsburg, I grew up there. Small world.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:22pmIn case people don’t read to page 2, the email address for Ms Hazlett is: thazlett@canonsburgboro.com
Report Post »She is probably getting deluged with calls and emails, so let’s send her some more.
dkhartman
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:27pmONECOOLCHICK – I love your idea. Everyone near her should put up a nativity scene. She’ll be forced to look at it everytime she walks out of her house and drives down the street. I hope someone out there stands up and does something to show her that you WILL NOT be able to take CHRIST out of Christmas.
Report Post »glhguy
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:42pmDont tolerate RUN EM outta TOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »anOpinion
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:43pmIf it were some islamic display they would never even have considered removing it.
When will this politically correct idiocy stop.
Report Post »Independent Tess
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:44pmI will be sending her a Christmas card. Wouldn’t it be funny if she was buried in Christmas cards? Her address can be found online……..
Report Post »jackvike
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:44pmBet the complainer has no problem spending money that says “In God We Trust”
Report Post »(like all US currency does) Hmmn country seems to be founded on christian values?!?!?
independentvoteril
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:47pmI see NO tolerance coming from the minority..however.. there NEVER was.. what we need is a game plan.. they are offended by the Nativity scene in the public square than let them see it EVERYWHERE..what all Christians need to do is make SURE they have a NATIVITY scene displayed at their homes, buy pins with the NATIVITY on it.. ANYTHING that can be carried or worn in public.. NOW with Christmas so close it might not be possible for EVERYONE to afford or be able to buy a NATIVITY scene.. so do the best you can like display the one you put UNDER your tree in YOUR window.. With a nice sign that in big letters says “HE IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON”.. Now the next day we will be disputing is EASTER.. we have time to prepare.. AGAIN let them SEE it EVERYWHERE.. Since over 80% of the populace is CHRISTIAN in one form or another AGAIN we SURROUND them.. NOT the other way around.. since our POLITICIANS don‘t have the male parts to STAND up and the AFLCIO keeps interfering with our first amendment rights it’s WE who have to fight for them without violence but with FIRM COMMITMENT.. and WHENEVER you see ANY kind of symbol that reflects either another religion, country, etc.. CALL the AFLCIO.. complain.. does the MEXICAN FLAG offend you during CINCO DI MAYO (hope that is spelled right)? Unless its being WORN by a person call tell them it’s not the flag of THIS country and it offends you.. ETC.. We have been quiet much to long time to STAND UP and SPEAK OUT.. Does the bill boards for alocholic beverages during the holidays or any other time of the year?? Call.. tell them they offend you.. it seem the louder you whine the more attention you get.. START WHINING..
Report Post »nuttyvet
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:47pmGosh… we are a bunch of children in this country!!! I am offended by this… I am offended by that… why can’t I have this… why does he have that??? Seriously? If the 2 Muslims in the neighborhood want to put up some iconic image of their religion and we say no, then we are racist! If the 50,000 Christians in the neighborhood want to put up a nativity and we say yes, then we are racist! I am so freaking sick of this!
Report Post »Marylou7
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 2:50pmMerry Christmas and God bless you one and all……my prayer includes all non-believers too.
Report Post »ImprobableSage
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:03pmConsternation! Uproar! I’m shocked, SHOCKED to discover that there’s actually CHRISTMAS — let alone, CHRIST — at CHRISTMASTIME. [Shaking head and clucking] What is the world coming to?
Report Post »DagneyT
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 3:50pmThat was my first reaction! How does one person’s complaint = removing ANYTHING??????
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 4:14pmPut a rag on the head of baby Jesus, an IED on Mary and a Chairman Mao bumpersticker on the mules ass and voila!!…..politically correct holiday!!……I would say “Christmas”, but then that would defeat the whole purpose of my suggestions…….ugh…….back off atheists, Commies, Muslims and politically correct douchebags…….Christmas is for Christians!
Report Post »James
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 4:33pmInsane. The only thing worse than someone claiming to be offended by a nativity scene is government officials who would give her the time of day, let alone remove it to make her happy.
Everyday I think the world has gotten a little more crazy.
http://crazyconservative.wordpress.com/
Report Post »Caveman
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 4:57pmIt is a public court house that non-christians have to go to. Like a public school. Would you be ok with a scene out of the koran being displayed in the court house? There is precident for this sort of thing. If you wanted to stand on the side walk and prey then you are more than welcome to do so. In the US you have the right to practice your religion the way you want to but it can not be endorsed by the government. This whole war on x-mas is stupid, there is no war on x-mas.
Report Post »Reagan/Demint.deciple
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 4:58pmProbably lose??? Well sir that IS something I’m willing to pay for..
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:21pmI bet Megan Hartley made a lot of new friends
Report Post »TOSKIMAN
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:33pmObama offends me – please remove him off of the public property upon which he resides.
Report Post »What surprises me is that one stupid person can say it bundles their underwear and they remove it. I’d like to see some people start standing up for what they believe!!
Illegal, my donkey’s behind!
Jefferson wrote about the wall of separation being a protection from the state’s intrusion – the state is not to tell us what/when and where our religious beliefs can be proclaimed.
Put up 10 for every 1 they take down.
Trance
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:46pmI can’t think of a time in history when the establishment of a state religion was good for a country.
It’s a simple concept. The US government is not allowed to establish a religion. This means religion cannot be promoted by government officials on government property. My guess is this woman was offended at the government’s promotion of a religion, and not at the actual nativity scene. Government also cannot prohibit people from practicing their own religion. So, while it may be a great idea for everyone to place nativity scenes on their own property, I doubt it would offend anyone.
Merry Christmas!
Report Post »BetterDays
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 5:55pm“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants.” Jefferson
Report Post »Jere
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 6:13pmYou know the old saying you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. Why is it our government expects us to do the impossible. If we could do that then we would turn the clock back about 30 years or so.
Report Post »CYCLONE
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 6:19pm“offensive to non Christians”.. ????????…
…Jesus was a Jew….I mean for chrissakes !!!… WTF…???
Report Post »Taquoshi
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 6:21pmTo Independent Tess -
I just hauled out my box of Christmas cards and found the “best” one with a Navitity scene on it. I’ll pop it in the mail later when I head out to work. Better yet, I’ll mail it from my city hall, where I often am due to my job.
I gotta wonder though, while my specific line of work takes me in and out of City Halls in my own community and nearby ones, how often does the average person go to their City or Town Hall? Unless you work there or have business to conduct there, most people don’t frequent their governmental centers.
We just had our municipal tree lighting and there is a concert coming up next week-end, but *I find myself wondering about these people who actively go and look for problems. Well, hopefully, someone who is living in Cannonsburg will keep track of this and let us know how it all turns out since her email address got posted and I hope lots of us Blazers will send her lovely Christmas cards. Maybe I’ll keep her address handy and send her a religious tract every month. That will help her get over her Christmas nativity angst, don’t you think?
NapoHill15
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 7:25pmWhat would they like us to put there . . . a display of primates frolicking in the leaves?
How about a heavily bearded man squatting by fire looking curiously at his friend’s overly round head contemplating the invention of the wheel . . . Or the laws of physics . . . the splitting of his friend’s skull with a round verses pointed rock? The great early advances of mankind on display; is that what is preferred?
Perhaps, they would like to see maybe a bearded man crowned in thorns dressed in a dirty blood stained tunic with ants crawling exploring his dead ashen face for the nutrients they could smell from a long way off . . . conquering the flesh?
What would they prefer . . . nothing? Perhaps we could give them the primates frolicking in the leaves in exchange for a manger . . . just a manger . . . Well, maybe a jackass standing in the corner to watch.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 7:28pmIf it is “offensive” then do not look at it …. how about the Mosque at ground zero .. we say it is offensive and we are told tough! Now they even want our money to help pay for it!
Report Post »mrclean
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 8:04pmWelllll, so the many stoop to the ONE commie little girl who pitches a fit.
She‘s no more offended than I’m George Washington.
She’s nothing except a commie, leftist, trouble-making God-hater who will get hers one day from the very God she shuns.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 9:38pm“In the world we live in, the courts dictate what we can do,” [Mayor Rhome] said. “The law is the law.”
Report Post »—–
I’m really disgusted that the people in that town have elected such an ignorant, gutless wonder to be their mayor. Mr. Rhome, the courts do not dictate what We can do and for that matter neither the president nor congress dictate what We can do. As a matter of fact, only the Constitution dictates anything and it dictates what the government cannot do to Us. For example, it can’t tell you how to worship, it can’t take away your guns, it can’t search you without a warrant, it can’t make you testify against yourself or try you twice for the same crime, it can’t try you for a crime in private, it can’t deny you a trial by jury in civil actions, it can’t inflict cruel and unusual punishment upon you, it can’t construe rights enumerated in the Constitution as a license to restrict other rights not listed in the Constitution, and finally, it can’t do anything if the Constitution does not specifically grant it the power to do that thing. Mr. Rhome, you not only have no business being mayor of any town in America, you have no business calling yourself an American. Go read and familiarize yourself with the Constitution that you took an oath to uphold, or resign and let someone take the position who won’t soil himself for fear that he might upset a federal judge who has no power whatsoever to dictate anything. You are a disgrace.
Robert W
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 9:38pmThe world is falling.
Report Post »tobefreeinmt
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 9:56pmI find this deplorable. 57 years of tradition stubbed my some moronic malcontent.
Report Post »The problem is that the people in Pa are letting this stuff fly. Stand up for God sake!!!
HEARDENOUGHCRAP
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 10:22pmI’ve had a belly full of the minority shoving THEIR wants down my throat, and I’m supposed to cowtow to them. Well, I’M OFFENDED by THEIR intolerance of MY religion. The left needs to learn what the first amendment says:
“The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment “prohibits the making of any law ”respecting an establishment of religion”, OR IMPEDING THE FREE EXERCISE OF RELIGION…..”. If we are to be bombarded 5 times a day with these cockamamy calls to prayer by the ragheads, then we should be able to gaze upon the tennets of our own faith.
The Establishment Clause of the First Amendment has been interpreted by the Supreme Court as erecting a separation of church and state, however, our country was CLEARLY founded on Judeo Christian principals, and the separation of Church and State was merely a passing phrase in a LETTER penned by Thomas Jefferson.
Report Post »komponist-ZAH
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 10:28pm@Trance–
Report Post »But this is not the US government, it is a small town. Where’s that part of the Constitution that says “Small towns shall not do anything implying the establishment of religion”?
ltb
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 10:38pmIn 1899, the Supreme Court concluded that America is a “Christian Nation” and backed its decision with 87 precedents, quotes from the Founding Fathers and Congressional Acts; however, in 1947, when the Supreme Court decided that there is a “wall of separation” between Church and State, it took one comment from Thomas Jefferson, completely out of context, and did not cite a single precedent. The intent of the First Amendment and of our Founding Fathers was to prevent one denomination of Christianity from being shown preference over another. Simply put, they didn’t want a Church of America, akin to the Church of England.
Sarcon
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 11:12pmWhat law was broken? The constitution clearly states, congress can’t pass a law establishing a national religion that everyone must follow. And thats it. Thats what it means and has always ment to be. Why anyone would think different is beyond me. All you have to do is read. Is that line so hard to understand? Where did they get this crap from? The communist manifesto?
Report Post »latinowhohateshimself
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 11:32pmIf it’s so “offensive” to have a nativity display on the OFFICIAL FEDERAL Christmas holiday then we shouldn’t display the flag on flag day, or 4th of July!!
Report Post »Caffeinated Texan
Posted on December 7, 2010 at 11:40pmOnecoolchick: That’s a great idea. Unfortunately, the local home owners associations would probably put the kibosh on that plan quickly. Let’s face it, we really don’t have the right to do what we want on our own property either.
Well, my work’s done here. Merry Christmas everyone!
(I’m usually not such a downer.)
Report Post »G.W. Dobbs
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 12:23amThis is NOT a “separation of Church and State Issue” and I am sick of hearing that fallacious
Report Post »argument. Such things happen when HISTORY is re-written and the UN-Godly want to abolish
Our Creator from our American Culture. Let the Atheists and Occultists complain but do NOT
allow THEM to destroy the Structure of our Nation, the Back Bone being our corporate recognition of our Lord and Savior.
dawgPound
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 1:21amWhy is it so hard for you morons to get the fact that religion cannot be asserted by government? You can put up a thousand mangers anywhere you want. But NOT in a government building. Christians want to seperate church and state as long as it’s someone ELSES church. I don’t give a rats a$$ about religious symbols at christmas, i’m a santa claus fan. Santa is not religious, manger scenes are. Private businesses and people can display whatever they want. But i don’t (and neither did the founding fathers) want state sponsored religion. If you enjoy government promoting a religion, move to Pakistan.
Report Post »captguam
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 2:40amA better question is “What became of majority rule”? It seems that since the ‘70’s it has been the squeaky wheels that get all the grease.
Report Post »LtdGovt
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 4:24am@caveman
Report Post »Really? I think you need to go back and read the Constitution. If a town wants to they can have a nativity scene. I don’t want to assume anything but I would hazard a guess that you think that, “separation of church and state” is in the Constitution. It is not. If I am wrong, I apologize. Simply put, they can put it up IF the laws of the state don’t prohibit it. There is nothing unconstitutional about it. There is most definitely a war on Christmas; a push to secularize it, minimize it or demonize it. One thing is for sure-there is no such thing as a right to not be offended.
ljjuhala
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 6:36amSeperation of church and state was written to protect citizens from the government telling them what religion they needed to be. Having a manger scene in honor of Christ, for whom the celebration is about, is not forcing anyone to become a Christian. It is a symbol of our celebration, during the Christmas holiday. The Supreme Court got it wrong! Their decision must be rescinded!
Report Post »StonyBurk
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 7:52amHere in Grand Junk Colorado the new County Building displays a lot of pagan Americna Indian religious
Report Post »symbols commonly known as Kachina .As a Christian I am offended that they can display these without
controversy -yet they can’t display the Ten Commandments Monument gifted to the City unless it has been secularized by inclusion of other laws. The City can’t display a nativity as it did when we were the
United States of America. But none of the “progressives” that support a secular public square can show me in the US Constitution where any separation of church and State is required. Neither can they show such intent from commentaries or laws written closer to the adoption of the Amendment .
JJ Coolay
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 10:35amDawgpound.. you’re right. The gov’t cannot and should not assert or sponsor a religion. I think it’s the way they go about nixing the Christian holidays and not necessarily the others.
Report Post »How about not having Ramadan stamps at the US Post Office for example?
JJ Coolay
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 10:45amPrivate citizens can display nativity scenes so long as it’s not on government (or public) property. That’s all well and good. If the government starts restricting that, then we have a problem.
Report Post »I’m a full on Christian conservative by the way. Im all for nativity scenes, but I think this article is nothing more than stirring anger in Christians.
By the way.. this is not a separation of church and state issue. I’m tired of hearing that. People misuse that all the time and it’s time they learned what that even meant. This is however an issue of whether the gov’t should or should not sponsor a religion and clearly they should not.
ltb
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 11:28amDawgpound, evidently you’re the one who’s a moron, because you are either A) commenting about the First Amendment without having read it first, or B) commenting about the First Amendment without having understood its simple meaning. Why don’t you enlighten the rest of us stupid folk, Genius, by pointing out the specific law that Congress has passed which forbids the placement of religious symbols on public property? Obviously you can’t, because there is no such law and the reason there isn’t is because it would violate the First Amendment. Also, Genius, judges do not get to write law, PERIOD (that’s why they are part of the Judicial Branch and not part of the Legislative Branch), so if a federal judge tells someone they can’t put a religious symbol on public property that judge has no basis to even comment, because no law has been violated. What this mayor should have said to the malcontent who complained was, “I’m sorry, but there is no federal law that prohibits us from putting up this religious symbol… if this Christmas scene offends you, perhaps you should just turn your head when you walk by it.”
Report Post »patriotj
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 2:11pmThis is just the beginning of another year of intolerance by the Progressives. This does not surprise me at all and I believe that Mr. Clark should be offended. This is completely ludicrous. It is completely legal for a state to allow religious objects to be displayed on its property.
I am a Jew and I find this type of complaint ridiculous and offensive. I do not celebrate Christmas but I live in a Christian country and Christmas is part of the American heritage and culture. I actually enjoy the lights and the atmosphere around this time of year and I am not offended by anything that represents Christmas – including a nativity scene.
Progressive like this person are only out to cause trouble. They do not support minorities. I am tired of people thinking that those of us who are minorities are to child-like to handle a nativity scene being displayed on government property.
Happy Chanukah to all my Jewish brothers and sisters and Merry Christmas to all my fellow Americans!
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 5:18pmHappy Chanukah PatriotJ and thanks for the merry Christmas wishes!
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 5:23pmLTB…. I think the point is that we came here for religious freedom. We broke away from England because of taxes and because the state was forcing a religion on the people.
Report Post »The founders didn’t want that.
We all have the right to choose our own religion…no one is disputing that.
The dispute is whether the government should be a part of that–or sponsoring one over another. And by having one religious scene at the place of a government building is a form of sponsorship.
That was what the founding fathers didn’t want.
Whether that’s in the constitution or not, I can say I’m not fully sure.
But I seriously think it’s not a good thing to have ANY religious affiliation from the government (as a body) being publicly displayed, lest it be the first step towards that tyranny the people had in old England. I want as little government in my life as possible… including religion. I’m free to worship Jesus Christ and they have not taken that away from me. What they do or not do on public property does not affect that option and by not having ANY display, it doesn’t offend anyone. Christians should keep their religious displays on private property and none of this will ever be an issue.. and we would not have to be offended by the taking down of such displays.
JJ Coolay
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 5:25pmOh yeah…. MERRY CHRISTMAS
Report Post »Trance
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 5:39pmYou’re right on, JJ Coolay.
Maybe if government started promoting some other religion people would understand why it’s a bad idea.
Report Post »flamingliberal
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 7:32pmhttp://motherjones.com/mojo/2010/12/superior-gold-judge-freezes-assets-glenn-beck
Beck stole my Grandmas gold….
Report Post »ladybe
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 9:07pmThe truth is, were it any other group with a scene of any kind, nothing would be said. This is a good time to point out Christians do not have freedom of religion or freedom of speech in America. Christians are the only ‘religious’ group who are racists.., the only ‘religious’ group who must be constantly reprimanded for being ‘overbearing’. Christians are consistently held up to the world as being wrong in every way. The few who oppose Christianity has a louder voice and we, as followers of Jesus Christ, in attempting to maintain peace, are letting them stamp us out.
Report Post »d55may
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 9:54pm“I think that it is highly disrespectful to the citizens of this Borough that are not Christian to have Christian iconography displayed on government property,” she reportedly wrote, “a government that is supposed to represent all of the citizens, not just the majority.”
BY THIS LOGIC, OBAMACARE SHOULD NEVER HAVE PASSED. They always want it both ways. oops. In more ways then one.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 8, 2010 at 9:58pmJJ, our founding fathers did not want the federal government establishing a National Baptist Church, a National Methodist Church, or a national church under the auspice of any other Christian denomination and they would be appalled by how the establishment clause has been perverted into a tool to remove God from the public square. I also think our founding fathers would be repulsed by the fact that federal judges have denied citizens the right to use their tax dollars to fund religious displays in the public square while at the same time forcing these citizens to pay for disgusting anti-Christian displays in the Smithsonian.
You said, “having one religious scene at the place of a government building is a form of sponsorship” – big deal! Government sponsorship is not the same as a law passed by Congress and therefore a Constitutional conflict doesn’t even exist. When Congress passes a law stating that nativity scenes shall be displayed every December 1st through December 31st on federal property, that’s when you’ll have a problem. Until then, no law, no Constitutional infringement.
I can’t believe you would actually suggest that Christmas decorations on public property would put us on the slippery slope to tyranny. I hate to break the news to you JJ, but we’re living under tyrants right now. Charlie Rangel should be in prison, but he’s already out making comments about the proposed tax law, barely a week after being censured by the House of “Representatives.” A few months ago, so-called representatives were spitting in the faces of Americans by passing healthcare legislation against the will of the majority of Americans. Obama had to stop sending his cabinet nominees before the Senate, because none of them had paid their taxes. People around the country keep telling their government they don’t want gay marriage and judges keep telling them to sit down and shut up. I can almost guarantee you the tyranny our founding fathers lived under was child’s play compared to the tyranny Americans endure today.
If you call yourself a Christian and hold the belief that America would be a better place if we just kept Jesus to ourselves, then you might want to re-evaluate whether or not you are truly a Christian. Personally, I find it amazing that any Christian can look at the cesspool America has become and not understand that telling God to get lost is directly responsible for every problem America faces today. Furthermore, by acquiescing to the demands of a few God hating atheists, the government is favoring the religion of Humanism over Christianity. Again, without any law being passed by Congress. Perhaps the best solution would be to for citizens to hold local ballot initiatives, which allow the People to cast votes as to whether they want their tax dollars being used for Christian displays during Christmastime.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 1:41amIf you call yourself a Christian and hold the belief that America would be a better place if we just kept Jesus to ourselves, then you might want to re-evaluate whether or not you are truly a Christian.
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LTB—I do call myself a Christian because I have Christ in my life.
Report Post »Do I believe this country is better without God? Absolutely not.
But we are free as Americans to choose any religion we want and we are free to spread the Gospel if we want. I am certainly not implying we should not be spreading the Gospel, as Christians. On the contrary—we should be because that is the Great Commission. So no, we should not just “keep Jesus to ourselves.” But how would you feel if your local courthouse put up scriptures from the Koran??? I wouldn’t like it at all. If Muslims want to spread their message on the streets, go for it, but keep it out of the government. Same thing has to be applied to Christianity. You cannot have it one way and not the other. It’s our responsibility as people of the church—-individuals of the church—to spread the Gospel. It’s not up to the government.
JJ Coolay
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 1:50amThis is a good time to point out Christians do not have freedom of religion or freedom of speech in America. Christians are the only ‘religious’ group who are racists.., the only ‘religious’ group who must be constantly reprimanded for being ‘overbearing’. Christians are consistently held up to the world as being wrong in every way. The few who oppose Christianity has a louder voice and we, as followers of Jesus Christ, in attempting to maintain peace, are letting them stamp us out.
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We do have religious freedom still. And we’re not getting stamped out.
Did Christ not say there would be persecution?
Did Christ Himself not endure persecution? And what was His reaction?
Humility. Peace. He allowed those who were persecuting Him to continue to persecute Him to the point of death on a cross after physical abuse. He said to turn the other cheek and let your enemy strike that side as well.
We’re getting slammed as Christians, yes. But we have not lost our freedoms.
ltb
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 10:25amJJ, I couldn’t care less if Muslims posted quotes from the Qur’an at courthouses as long as quotes from the gospels are posted right alongside them, because I firmly believe the more that people know about what’s in the Qur’an, the more they will understand that it’s a demonic book. I also believe the more that unsaved people understand Jesus, the more they will understand just how easy God has made it for them to avoid going to Hell. While Christians sit idly by, public school textbooks teach children that the Qur’an is “the Word of God and kids in California dress up in Islamic garb while they learn about the “prophet” Muhammad. Meanwhile, Christ is mocked by our government in public museums and every mention of his name is being barred in public places. In case you haven’t noticed, there’s not a war on religion in America, there’s a war on Christianity.
What exactly is your problem with the founding fathers’ intent for this nation? Our founders understood that the Republic they established would only stand as long as America remained a Christian nation, because Christians are regulated by God from their hearts and, therefore, require less governing than people who are on their way to Hell. Obviously we Christians aren’t perfect by any means, but if you look at measures of depravity (i.e., crime rates, STDs, abortions, drug abuse, etc.) prior to the early 1960s, they had remained flat since record keeping in America for such things began. After the Supreme Court removed prayer and the Bible from our schools in 1962-3, however, crime rates, STD rates, abortions, drug use among teens, etc. skyrocketed. Today, America is home to the most depraved generation of people known to mankind since the last generation of Romans and we have Liberals who hate God to thank for it. You keep saying you’re a Christian, yet you are defending the position of God hating atheists who want to remove the religious and moral foundations that were put in place by our founding fathers. You need to understand that once those foundations have been removed, it’s not your heart that’s going to be telling you how to live, it’s going to be a corrupt, tyrannical bureaucracy. Is that what you want?
Report Post »StandUpForOurCountry
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 10:58amDoes Megan Hartley know that the Official Motto of this great country is “In God We Trust” and that it has appeared since the 1860s on the currency that she uses every day? We should all let her know that the majority of us do not want to take God, Jesus and the Nativity out of Christmas and that she should either accept that or move to a country that has the same beliefs that she has. I suggest that we each send her a Christmas card to let her know that the minority can not change the love we have for our God and our Country. Her address is Megan Hartley – 144 Oak Spring Road – Canonsburg, PA 15317-1045.
Report Post »Sep of Church and State
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 12:29pmWow… these comments are some of the most ignorant I have come across recently. You clearly have no understanding of the legal issues involved in such cases. These laws protect your freedom of religion, but it takes calm reasoning to understand that. It is far easier to think like a child and say “I like Christmas, so this should be ok….”
Religious displays are akin to a government/publicly funded endorsement of religion or of one religion over another. I highly suggest you all study a little bit on constitutional history and case law before you weigh in on issues far above your understanding.
These same laws that you attack and the ones that protect your right to free religion.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 3:02pmOur founders understood that the Republic they established would only stand as long as America remained a Christian nation
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I understand the importance to have God as a focal point during the establishment of this nation. But I seriously doubt they believed we must remain “a Christian nation”. That would be completely contradictory since that was the very reason they left England—-to escape a government imposed religion. Having God versus being an established Christian state are 2 very different things.
Even the Jews and Muslims believe in the same God as the Christians. Unfortunately for both of them, it’s how you reach God (through His son Jesus) that they don’t believe. But they both came from Abraham’s seed (through Isaac and Ishmeel) and Abraham had a covenant with God. So all 3 “religions” look to the same God and yet there would be no specific sponsorship of a religion when just having God involved. And when the founders were establishing our nation it was always talk about God being the creator and God given rights. They never specifically said Jesus. It was all inclusive to a point because there is only 1 true God despite how many different ways people believe you can reach Him. So the point is that they spoke about the creator not a religion. Big difference.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 3:18pmChrist is mocked by our government in public museums and every mention of his name is being barred in public places. In case you haven’t noticed, there’s not a war on religion in America, there’s a war on Christianity.
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Yes I have noticed and as I said earlier, did not Christ say there would be persecution?
I think there is a double standard in our society when it’s ok to talk about the Muslim religion in schools when it is not ok to talk about the Christian religion. That’s bush league!
And it’s in those cases that the Christians need to stand up just like this lady in that small Pennsylvania town stood up and shut it down.
ltb
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 5:31pmGee, Sep of Church and State, I am so glad we have a genius like you to explain the nuances of the simple language used in the First Amendment. Let me guess, you were indoctrinated in a public school and have no formal education beyond the 12th grade, right? That really doesn’t matter, because our founding fathers wrote the Constitution in language that even a person like you could comprehend. When our founding fathers wrote “Congress shall make no law,” you know what they meant? If you said, “Congress shall make no law” then there is hope for you, if you said anything else, you’re a moron. Our founding fathers were very aware that average people are stupid and they weren’t trying to trick anyone. If they had meant “The federal government shall not engage in any activity that will even give the hint that one religion is favored over another, because there is a wall of separation between Church and State,” that’s exactly what they would have written. Before you go around telling other people they need to study a little bit on constitutional history and accusing others of being ignorant, perhaps you should spend a little time studying the Congressional Records for 06/07/1789 through 09/25/1789. When you do that, why don’t you come back and tell us if you’re still mistaken about the intent of the First Amendment?
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 9, 2010 at 5:54pmJJ, stop calling yourself a Christian, because it’s obvious that you’re not and I can prove it with one question: What happened the day you got saved? FYI, you blew it when you said the God of Israel is the god [sic] of Islam. It’s obvious that the truth is not in you and that being the case you’re wasting my time.
“You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.” (John 8:44)
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on December 10, 2010 at 8:49amJJ, stop calling yourself a Christian, because it’s obvious that you’re not
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WOW!
Report Post »I can’t even believe my eyes.
Here I am saying I have Jesus Christ in my heart and you’re telling me I am not saved?
If… and that’s only an IF… I am mistaken, that does not mean I am not a Christian and it certainly does not qualify you to judge whether I am or not. I’m glad I am judged by only one…. and that’s God, not you or anyone else.
As for the rest of what you said, about me being wrong, we’re obviously going to have to agree to disagree because as I said, the Muslims and the Jews both came from the same seed… that of Abraham. Go read your old testament. It’s in Genesis.
JJ Coolay
Posted on December 10, 2010 at 9:05amWhat happened the day you got saved?
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To answer your question:
Physically—-absolutely nothing happened. Not a thing in my physical body changed.
Spiritually I was reborn. Christ came in and by the grace of God my spirit, that which was cut off from God because of Adam was reconnected to Him through and because of Jesus’ payment on the cross.
So tell me… what does that prove? I’d like to see the proof that you had.
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 10, 2010 at 11:39amJJ, just because Ishmael and Israel came from the same seed, doesn’t mean they worship our God. Many of Abraham’s descendents worshipped other gods (that’s why the Israelites kept getting in trouble with God, remember?). I’m not trying to insult you, but you obviously are ignorant about Islam and am sorry to say evidently are ignorant about the God who saved you. The god of Islam is a demonic god, who is a liar and the author of evil (Qur’an 4:142; 3:54; 7:99; 8:30; 10:21; 13:42; 27:50). The god of Islam also said he has no son and that he tricked the world into believing Jesus was crucified (Qur’an 4:157; 4:48; 112: 1-4). As a matter of fact, the god of Islam tells his followers that the only unforgivable sin is to believe Jesus could die for your sins (Qur’an 4:48). You tell me how this god could be the same as the God who cannot lie (Psalm 5:4-5; Habakkuk 1:13; Hebrews 6:18) and who came to earth as Jesus to die on the cross for your and my sins (Hebrews 10:10). You either believe that Jesus died for your sins and therefore believe the God of the Bible, or you believe he was never even crucified and therefore believe the god of the Qur’an. I’m curious, how do you defend your position that both God and the god of Islam are one and the same in light of these basic facts?
Report Post »ltb
Posted on December 10, 2010 at 12:11pmJJ: I had an awesome salvation experience that was very tangible. For three days I couldn’t stop smiling and even though 30 years have passed, I still get emotional thinking about it, because it was the first time I had ever felt the presence of God. Not everyone has such an experience and I really just wanted to see if you understood that eternal salvation is an event that can be pinpointed and not a process, a birthright, or the result of attending church. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people in America who call themselves “Christians,” but have never been saved. I’m guessing you’re probably in your 20s and that you haven’t been a Christian for more than 10 years, because you have some very naïve and uninformed opinions. Sorry for being blunt, but you need to get with the program. Right now, Christians should all be on the same page when it comes to whether or not America would be a better place if we prohibited even the mention of our Savior’s name in the public square. As the Bible says, “For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms” (Ephesians 6:12). We’re in a war for the soul of America right now and it doesn’t help matters when Christians are fighting battles on the enemy’s side.
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