World

Pakistan Cuts U.S. Supply Lines After Copter Attack Killed At Least 24 Troops

Pakistan Says NATO Helicopter Attack Killed At Least 24 Troops

Pakistani security personnel stop trucks carrying supplies for NATO forces in neighboring Afghanistan at Takhtabeg check post in Pakistani tribal area of Khyber, Pakistan, on their way to Torkham border post on Saturday, Nov. 26, 2011. (AP Photo/Muhammad Sajjad)

PESHAWAR, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistan on Saturday accused NATO helicopters and fighter jets of firing on two army checkpoints in the country’s northwest and killing 24 soldiers. Islamabad retaliated by closing the border crossings used by the international coalition to supply its troops in neighboring Afghanistan.

The incident before dawn Saturday was a major blow to already strained relations between Islamabad and U.S.-led forces fighting in Afghanistan. It will add to perceptions in Pakistan that the American presence in the region is malevolent, and further fuel resentment toward the weak government in Islamabad for its cooperation with Washington.

It comes a little more than a year after a similar but less deadly strike near the Afghan border in which U.S. helicopters accidentally killed two Pakistani whom the pilots mistook for insurgents. Pakistan responded by closing the Torkham border crossing to NATO supplies for 10 days until the U.S. apologized.

On Saturday, Pakistan went further, closing both of the country’s border crossings into landlocked Afghanistan. NATO trucks about 30 percent of the non-lethal supplies used by its Afghan-based forces through Pakistan. A short stoppage will have no effect on the war effort, but serves as a reminder of the leverage Pakistan has over the United States from the supply routes running through its territory.

A spokesman for NATO forces in Afghanistan, Brig. Gen. Carsten Jacobson, said it was “highly likely” that close air support called in by Afghan and coalition forces operating in the border area caused Pakistani casualties. NATO is investigating the incident to determine the exact details, he told BBC television.

Gen. John Allen, the top overall commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Afghanistan, said in a statement that his “most sincere and personal heartfelt condolences go out to the families and loved ones of any members of Pakistan security forces who may have been killed or injured.”

Much of the violence in Afghanistan is carried out by insurgents that are based just across the border in Pakistan. Coalition forces are not allowed to cross the frontier to attack the militants. The militants, however, sometimes fire artillery and rockets across the line, reportedly from locations close to Pakistani army posts.

American officials have repeatedly accused Pakistani forces of supporting – or turning a blind eye – to militants using its territory for cross-border attacks. The border issue is the major source of tension between Islamabad and Washington, which wants to stabilize Afghanistan and withdraw its combat troops there by the end of 2014.

Pakistan army chief Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani “strongly condemned” the alleged attack on the two checkpoints, calling it a “blatant and unacceptable act,” according to an army statement. It said the “unprovoked” attack was carried out by NATO helicopters and fighter jets, killing 24 soldiers and wounding 13 others. Pakistani soldiers responded in self-defense “with all available weapons,” said the statement.

The two checkpoints were around 1,000 feet apart, and one of them was attacked twice, said a government official in Mohmand and a security official in Peshawar, the main city in Pakistan’s northwest. Two officers were among the dead, they said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to brief the media.

The attack happened around 2 a.m. on Saturday, Pakistani Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani told reporters.

Ties between Washington and Islamabad already have been hard hit by the covert U.S. commando raid that killed Osama bin Laden in a Pakistani garrison town on May 2. The Pakistanis were outraged that they were not told about the operation beforehand, and now are even more sensitive about U.S. violations of the country’s sovereignty.

Gilani summoned U.S. Ambassador Cameron Munter to protest the alleged NATO attack, according to a Foreign Ministry statement. It said the attack was a “grave infringement of Pakistan’s sovereignty” and could have serious repercussions on Islamabad’s cooperation with NATO. Pakistan has also lodged protests in Washington and NATO headquarters in Brussels, it said.

A Pakistani customs official told The Associated Press that he received verbal orders Saturday to stop all NATO supplies from crossing the border through Torkham in either direction. The operator of a terminal at the border where NATO trucks park before they cross confirmed the closure. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter.

Saeed Ahmad, a spokesman for security forces at the other crossing in Chaman in southwest Pakistan, said that his crossing was also blocked following orders “from higher-ups.”

The U.S., Pakistani, and Afghan militaries have long wrestled with the technical difficulties of patrolling a border that in many places is disputed or poorly marked.

Saturday‘s incident took place a day after a meeting between NATO’s Gen. Allen and Pakistan army chief Gen. Kayani in Islamabad to discuss border operations.

The meeting tackled “coordination, communication and procedures between the Pakistan Army, ISAF (intelligence services) and (the) Afghan Army, aimed at enhancing border control on both sides,” according to a statement from the Pakistani side.

The checkpoints that were attacked had been recently set up in Mohmand’s Salala village by the army. They were intended to stop Pakistani Taliban militants holed up in Afghanistan from crossing the border and staging attacks, said two local government administrators, Maqsood Hasan and Hamid Khan.

The U.S. helicopter attack that killed two Pakistani soldiers on Sept. 30 of last year took place south of Mohmand in the Kurram tribal area. A joint U.S.-Pakistan investigation found that Pakistani soldiers fired at the two U.S. helicopters prior to the attack, a move the investigation team said was likely meant to notify the aircraft of their presence after they passed into Pakistani airspace several times.

Pakistan moved swiftly after the attack to close Torkham to NATO. Suspected militants took advantage of the impasse to launch attacks against stranded or rerouted trucks carrying NATO supplies.

Senior U.S. diplomatic and military officials eventually apologized for the attack, saying it could have been prevented with greater coordination between the U.S. and Pakistan. Pakistan responded by reopening the border crossing.

Comments (120)

1 2 3
  • Baikonur
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:23pm

    This is America to the world today:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3hRgx02jh0&feature=related

    Report Post » Baikonur  
    • Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:57pm

      Now THAT is just a bizarre vid LOL

      Report Post » Latter-Day-Soldier  
    • Baikonur
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 3:02pm

      @Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:57pm
      ‘Now THAT is just a bizarre vid LOL’
      ************
      You watched it? Thank you. I am shocked.

      Report Post » Baikonur  
  • woodruff
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:18pm

    Our sons and daughters are tired and fathers and mothers are weary and terrorism is the name of the game. This country needs to wake up and smell the roses before there are no roses in the garden. I truly beleive that we are being set up for one heck of a ride from within as well as without. The majority of this nation slumbers and looks to government for protection. Lets face it, this government can’t and wont support our troops let alone take care of her citizens. Lets bring our troops home and prepare for terrorist attacks within the US and then kiss ass when were hit.

    Report Post »  
    • banjarmon
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 12:20am

      Mecca glass out of all muslims…

      Report Post » banjarmon  
    • Meyvn
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 7:21am

      I think you meant “kick ass”?

      Report Post » Meyvn  
    • Ruler4You
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 10:52am

      Pakistan has never been our ally. We have been paying protection money to them to keep their nukes from becoming ‘roaming’ weapons that we’d (and the rest of the world) have to be worried about.

      IMHBLO, we need to take a new position as ‘referee’. Hands off and wait and watch. If things go too bad, end it for both sides… over there: bang.

      It‘s time the entire non muslim world realizes this isn’t a transient level of ‘discontent’. This “IS” a hitler level of commitment and action. And ignoring it is exactly the same response the world had to that pig. Which took a gigantic effort and mind numbing quantity of resources to stop.

      With all of the recent fear raised about earths “human” population being unsustainable, maybe that is the intent… wait until it goes over the edge and use that as an excuse to annihilate giant swaths of high density population centers.

      I don’t know, but it seems pretty sure there is no real commitment to stomp the hell out of this before that.

      Report Post » Ruler4You  
    • ProbIemSoIver
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:32pm

      Killing people overseas makes us less safe. We are just fueling the fire.
      I have no doubt that decades from now, we will be attacked by members of families we have killed the past 11 years, in these wars. So many American Soldiers die. Innocent middle-easterners die.

      Quit eating GMOs, preservatives,and drinking fluoridated water. It affects your pineal gland making you docile and dumb. Then maybe you would realize that we went to war with the WRONG country because 19 PEOPLE from another country attacked two buildings in NYC.

      Maybe you will look up the meaning of military / industrial complex.

      I thought our government was to provide for the common defense.
      Not provide for the common global offense.

      Report Post » ProbIemSoIver  
    • antrancher
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 3:09pm

      They are here! All around us! We have to arm ourselves and protect those we love from our very neighbors!

      Report Post »  
  • schlepnier
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:02pm

    “dvaughn1155
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:25pm
    Think back about 10 yrs, Afganistan was where Bin Laden launched the attacks on the U.S., By taking the war to them was better then what Clinton did, wanting to use law enforcement to bring them to justice.
    Pres. Bush did the right thing by going to war with Al Queda and the Taliban to think not shows your a moronic fool.”

    Well said, how easily we forget our history and the consequences of inaction….who wants to bet the paki checkpoints opened fire on the US forces like before “as a warning shot” thus justifying an armed responce. if our troops are taking fire rules of engagement say that they can return fire. it’s war not an exercise.

    Report Post » schlepnier  
    • SpankDaMonkey
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:15pm

      .
      Oooops! Did we do that?………..

      Well sorry, but from three feet, wait I mean a thousand feet ya’ll all look like terrorists…………..

      Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
    • coindexter
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:21pm

      just one more reason to go ron paul on this kind of “foreign policy”. the US military is not in control of operations and does not know who our enemy is. we are fighting ghosts…we should bring our troops home and never fight a war in a winless manner. our troops deserve better.

      Report Post »  
    • The-Monk
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 8:21pm

      Time to cut off all $$$ aid to them. Two can play that game. No base, no money. I just hope the Military takes EVERYTHING and leaves NOTHING at the base.

      Report Post » The-Monk  
  • M24
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:55pm

    Obama is a socialists Coward , Soldiers Beware This Com. and Ch. Will Sell His Mother Out to get Votes . The Military Dont matter to Him. To all The Vapor Heads That Voted For The Mesiah HOW YA LOOKN NOW ? Oh By The Way He Still Cant Walk On Water!! SEMPER FI

    Report Post »  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:17pm

      As I rremember it ..Obama didn’t want to kill Osama bin laden but gave into pressure by Hilary and the “team” Look at the accomplishments
      It killed a has been for the sake of votes
      It got Seal Team Six who did the mission killed
      It allowed our special opts helicopter to be held hostage and viewed by China
      What we are doing
      Pakistan receives 3.5 billion a year of our tax dollars in foreign aid
      What they are doing…
      have nuclear weapons
      are sharing nuclear technology with China, Iran, North Korea and Lybia
      I understand that we give twice the foreign aid to Muslim countries than to Israel..
      We are sisters in purpose to Israel whether many of us are smart enough to realize it or not.
      We get our Judeo Christian values from her.
      Which means that we believe in the freedom of religion..but we have to draw the line against a theocracy. And in dealing with Muslim countries..we are dealing with the devil.

      Report Post »  
  • Baikonur
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:40pm

    We need to get out of those parts of the world. All too often we are killing innocent people.

    We have always been seen as benevolent, inventive, athletic, good natured,welcoming, competent. Our icons are Ben Franklin, Mark Twain, Star Trek, Jazz, Josephine Baker, Coke, Elvis, McDonalds, Woody Allen, New York, Little House on the Prairie—good cool things!

    We are now becoming more associated with death and innjury than with goodness, invention, and fun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3hRgx02jh0&feature=related

    Report Post » Baikonur  
    • lukerw
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:44pm

      Yeh… Get our Troops out… and Nuke em from Bombers!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • Baikonur
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:03pm

      @lukerw
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:44pm
      ‘Yeh… Get our Troops out… and Nuke em from Bombers!’
      ****************
      You know what you and haters like you on the Blaze remind me of? The Stephen King movie ‘It,’ and what Beverly Marsh finds in that old house. The worst of the worst of the Appalachias.

      Report Post » Baikonur  
    • Baikonur
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:07pm

      The Tea Party Patriots are what Beverly finds here:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9n6cbd3D4Y

      Report Post » Baikonur  
    • Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:22pm

      Baikonur, you forgot Star-Wars and Coca-cola.
      I agree with luke about getting our troops out of that area; bring em back and have em secure our own borders….both our northern and (especially) our southern border.

      Report Post » Latter-Day-Soldier  
    • Warrior4Zion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 5:40pm

      We need to declare War on Pakistan immediately. They are not our friends. Besides Muslims are prone to anti-Semitism and America must not tolerate it anywhere or the West will fall.

      Report Post »  
  • garyM
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:40pm

    I can’t imagine a country that housed Osama Bin Laden for years being against us! If you have a large group of terrorist from different countries but all having the same cultural ideology, guess what, they all are against you, you can’t pay a segment of them money to help you, but they will only pretend to help for the money for a season and in the long run the whole bunch will whip your butt. It‘s best to have the ’whoever is not for us is against us attitude” Yes I miss him and if everyone else who doesn’t, they don’t have all the fish on the stringer, they are not the sharpest knife in the drawer!

    Report Post »  
  • The Bushmaster
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:32pm

    Do you think for a second General G. Patton would stand for his supplies not getting through? No way. He’s go in there and reopen those supply lines and any resistance would be met with sure death! This is bulls–t on a scale only Obama could manufacture. All that talk about taking the war to Pakistan and now he allows them to cut off his supply routes! What a puss.

    Report Post »  
    • Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:25pm

      Very good points, I agree with you %100

      Report Post » Latter-Day-Soldier  
    • lukerw
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:45pm

      You are right, of course… but Patton was always in Trouble with the Media & Politicians!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • bhohater
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 6:14pm

      War is necessary, it gives people someone to hate, prevents overpopulation, and creates tens of thousands of jobs.

      Report Post » bhohater  
  • Chet Hempstead
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:31pm

    No, they hate us because we are dangerous. We are a tiger and our enemy is a mosquito. The mosquito will always attack you, while the tiger will almost never attack you unless you bother it first. Still, nobody prefers to have the tiger in their home.

    Report Post »  
  • thegreatcarnac
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:22pm

    Ever hear of air planes??? Resupply by air. It is not the preferred way but it is a ‘way’. Do this until a bribe is decided upon to the right people. That always works in the M.E.

    Report Post »  
  • Thevoice
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:14pm

    Since there is not one shred of common sense on the ground there…The military better watch this isn’t a plan to have that incoming equipment held for espionage…Anyway didn’t we hear a couple months ago when this happened before some of the shipping cans were delivered to our bases half emptied .

    Report Post » Thevoice  
    • Thevoice
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:26pm

      I smell a attack on our troops coming ..The enemy is looking or set up a weak point. Beware …Anyway the world by now knows how I feel …9/12 only one clear message should have been sent .When you see our armies .Wave a withe flag of surrender or stand and die for your misguided beliefs..Then destroyed to surrender and victory our enemy. No we went into a global quagmire and destroyed our nation with self gratification. When all we had to do is give no more than a year to have crushed this for once and for all. protected the meaning of our freedom and liberities…

      Report Post » Thevoice  
  • CynicalPatriot
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:05pm

    End this farce now! We’ve shamefully wasted the lives of our military in pusuit of an impossible objective. This is the one thing Obama can blame on Bush. Those muslim crapholes will never be free nations or allies. Bring all our troops home NOW!

    I hope we’ve learned a lesson from this, or the lives of our soldiers who’ve been thrown away really will be a waste. Here’s how you fight the War On Terror, with greater terror! 100 to 1 reprisals. When they come over here and take 3000 of ours, select a target, put the bombers in the air, and take 300,000 of theirs.

    Report Post »  
    • dvaughn1155
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:25pm

      Think back about 10 yrs, Afganistan was where Bin Laden launched the attacks on the U.S., By taking the war to them was better then what Clinton did, wanting to use law enforcement to bring them to justice.
      Pres. Bush did the right thing by going to war with Al Queda and the Taliban to think not shows your a moronic fool.

      Report Post »  
    • Latter-Day-Soldier
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:41pm

      Wow cynical, that’s one of the more hateful posts I have seen today.
      Bush did have a plan for leaving the Mid-East with both Iraq and Afghanistan able to hold their own after U.S. forces withdrew; Obama, on the other hand, has completely disregarded every plan Bush had set up and we are currently seeing the results of another liberal-democratic-socialist president.

      Latter-Day-Soldier  
    • Walkabout
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 4:43pm

      Latter-Day-Soldier

      I have to agree with Latter-Day-Soldier on Bush’s plan. Because ofh Obama I wasted my time for the small part I did overseas.

      Report Post »  
    • CynicalPatriot
      Posted on November 27, 2011 at 1:04pm

      I was for it too when Bush started it, then I turned against it around 2005 when it became painfully obvious that Bush thought he could “win” both of those wars by pansy assing around. Remember those days, or do you have the typical short American memory? Our soldiers were given ridiculous rules of engagement, they were still marching around in circles like targets in a shooting gallery, and every time one of them shot back at anyone they were charged with a crime. You can’t blame Obama for this one, it’s all Bush. It was a joke when Bush was in charge of it, and its an even bigger joke now. There isn’t going to be any “victory” the way Bush or Obama has defined it and we need to get our guys out of there and STOP THROWING AWAY THEIR LIVES!

      Report Post »  
  • NOBALONEY
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:53pm

    This move isolates our troops in Afghanistan. What the Obama administration squirm out of this one like they have with Egypt! President Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry have all been kissing up to the Pakastani since OBL’s killing. This is a bomb in the President’s lap! Who will he blame this time?

    Report Post » NOBALONEY  
  • FstEti
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:47pm

    Get all of our troops out of the mess that is the Middle East then, at the first provocation, take out a village or small city in the offending nation with a small tactical nuclear weapon,followed by an address from whoever our President is, that this is an example of what will happen when we are provoked again. Provocation should include any comments by Iran towards Israel. These people, for the most part, are still living in the 12th century and kill each other because someone stole someone else’s goat 300 years ago. They are tribal and only understand raw power and strength. It’s time that we used that strength, And there’s not a damn thing that they can do about it. Also, should there be an attack on the level of 9/11, we need to make it clear that Mecca will be a memory as the Saudis are as bad as the rest of them. Now, THAT’S change I can believe in.

    Report Post »  
    • Chet Hempstead
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 1:28pm

      We don’t have to show them that we can kill people. They know that already. The reason nobody anywhere in the world trusts us anymore is that we can kill more innocent people by accident than the enemy can on purpose.

      Report Post »  
    • FstEti
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 2:49pm

      I disagree, Chet. These tribal people understand that he with the most camels and swords, and that won’t hesitate to USE them, is in charge. If we won’t USE them, then we may as well not have them. They consider this a weakness. Just using them one time would set an example. Simple people, simple solution. I imagine a well placed tactical nuke would work WONDERS with the mindset of the likes of Iran, North Korea, Syria, AND the practitioners of “The Religion of Peace”crowd.

      Report Post »  
    • Chet Hempstead
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 5:24pm

      Going around nuking people who aren’t any immediate threat to us will also change the mindset of the rest of the civilized world. Believe it or not, in the long run that matters more.

      Report Post »  
  • rebelwuf
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:17pm

    Pakistan is NOT our friend. But the powers that be will continue to try and convince the sheep that are not paying attention otherwise.

    Report Post »  
    • Zcat
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:31pm

      No–but, they are Obama friend!

      Report Post »  
  • COFemale
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:11pm

    If the check point has also been allowing insurgents to cross with arms into Afghanistan then I see no loss here. Pakistan is not our friend; they knew Bin Laden was held up there and if we had notified them he would have escaped.

    Pakistan will sell to the highest bidder; their government is more corrupt than ours. You Reap what you Sow. You play both sides, expect consequences.

    Report Post » COFemale  
    • cyclops
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:43pm

      You hit it right on…….

      Report Post » cyclops  
    • VinnieCCT
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 3:00pm

      Exactly! Also, 2am and why were there so many troops at the check points? There was something going on.

      Report Post »  
  • convictobama
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:02pm

    Great Foreign policy Obummer
    1. Piss off China troops to Australia
    2. Piss off Russia- they threaten to nuke or missile sites.
    3. Piss off Pakistan- Breaking supply chain to troops.
    4. Middle east. WOW.
    5 Israel-
    This POTUS is trying to cause a skirmish or war to get reelected. ITS TREASON, TRY Obummer now!! Lets get a petition going to try him…

    Report Post »  
    • convictobama
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:04pm

      Intentional endangering of troops and causing muslim brotherhood, al quaida takeover and loss of human rights in middle east.

      Report Post »  
    • Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:09pm

      Remember that his puppet master Soros is of the Fabian society of “Reforge the world” fame; has anyone considered the same could be true of Mr Obama?

      He is sewing chaos over the world, as is Soros, for their re-engineering of everything…why doee no one see the chance mr Obama may be one of their society as well?

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • techengineer11
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:20pm

      Wonderul! I bet the ole Neo-Cons Krauthammer and Kristol will have get many jollies out of this great news.. Oh boy how the Alien loves to use the US Military to do their dirty work.

      Report Post » techengineer11  
    • DavidZion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 3:42pm

      @ConvictObama OK It is true that China has a very large army but they don’t have any logistics to project their power. Thats why Taiwan has thumbed their noses at main land china for decades and they are less than 100 miles off shore. So the idea that China might attack Australia is a bit far fetched. If WE the conservatives believe that WE have the right ideology then WE need to keep to the facts and be realistic instead of broad conjecture with nonsense. If your going to post check your facts before hand.

      Report Post » DavidZion  
  • The10thAmendment
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:01pm

    The Unites States should never be intertwined with an amalgamation of forces for ANY reason. We shouldn’t be embroiled with the concerns of those people. It’s none of our business.

    That’s no different than me invading someone in this forums home and dictating to them what they should do, and by me squatting (and that’s all American conquest amounts to) creates scenario’s for bad things to happen.

    America’s foreign policy of interventionism is contrary to the Constitution, and it’s immoral.

    Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • DavidZion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:13pm

      You can’t just say we should NEVER be involved. I agree we shouldn’t be in Afghanistan and Iraq because they are not our friends. But if your neighbor is a victim of a home invasion are you going to lock and load or just ignore it?

      Report Post » DavidZion  
    • techengineer11
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:25pm

      DavidZion: Get that Israel first Globalism in the defense of the Jew out of here.. We don’t want anymore “Wars for Irsrael ok David?

      Report Post » techengineer11  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:34pm

      Why can’t I say that. America has NO BUSINESS in those lands. Just because we improperly approached Afghanistan by deploying troops on the ground, doesn’t make the policy right. Our troops should have been used, returned and Afghanistan bombed, even with the nuclear option back to pre stone age.

      Thomas Jefferson was exactly right.

      “If there is one principle more deeply rooted in the mind of every American, it is that we should have nothing to do with conquest.”

      We have no business “occupying” other nations. Not ever. Our misery in all this crap interventionism is self inflicted. Our union with NATO is immoral, and COMPLETELY contrary to the Constitution.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:47pm

      The fall of Rome came about because they had forgotten true Liberty at home, and their foreign policy was one where conquest spread their forces to so many lands that it was a position that could not be supported either logistically, or rationally.

      No different than what this current perversion of America is doing. Wilson started the collapse with his immoral involvement in WWI, and we’ve been damned ever since.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • whatthecrazy
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 12:53pm

      I can agree with that totally 10thamendment……………..

      Report Post »  
    • DavidZion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 3:54pm

      @10TH
      You said “The Unites States should never be intertwined with an amalgamation of forces for ANY reason.”
      Not just the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we have a treaty with a nation or that nation is an actual ally then we have an obligation to assist them. Again Iraq and Afghanistan don’t fit into that category. I certainly don’t believe in nation building that is going on. I served in both those countries for over 5 years and know first hand what we are dealing with.

      But that being said if we don’t stop evil on the battle field of OUR choosing and watch it consume our allies and friends who share the same moral character with us and not aid them then we will surely fall too.

      Report Post » DavidZion  
    • DavidZion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 4:05pm

      @10TH Oh Good God

      The US is now rome? Your right the roman empire supported its cities and citizen through constant conquest and expansion. Invading a country looting it and putting larges portions of its populace into slavery.

      Tell me Mr 10th show me where the United States of America is conquering countries, looting them and sending the citizens off into slavery? It’s the opposite; every country we have invaded ended up better off than before despite the reason or whether we agree or disagree. So the US expansionism you suggest is just silly. I’m open for any examples you might share.

      Again I’m for withdrawing our troops for both conflicts immediately because they are not our friends. But to compare us with imperialist expansion is just idiocy.

      Report Post » DavidZion  
    • bhohater
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 6:35pm

      The Military Industrial Complex has been behind every war since Korea. President Eisenhower warned us about it in 1961 during his farewell speech to the nation.

      Report Post » bhohater  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 7:33pm

      @ DavidZion
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 3:54pm

      @10TH

      Not just the current conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan. If we have a treaty with a nation or that nation is an actual ally then we have an obligation to assist them. Again Iraq and Afghanistan don’t fit into that category. I certainly don’t believe in nation building that is going on. I served in both those countries for over 5 years and know first hand what we are dealing with.

      But that being said if we don’t stop evil on the battle field of OUR choosing and watch it consume our allies and friends who share the same moral character with us and not aid them then we will surely fall too.
      ————————————————————————————————————————–
      I’ve got a brother in Afghanistan, and my father served 2 tours in Viet-Nam. I work defense projects on several weapons systems and have been to Country’s that quite frankly disgust me beyond measure.

      We have no “moral authority” to infuse ourselves into the affairs of other nations. Our Constitution prevents that. No President has a right to declare a war with another Nation, nor should we ever be in “compact” with a world jurisdiction on how we will prosecute war where WE ARE ATTACKED. That’s the PEOPLES decision. Our Military takes the Oath to Support and Defend the Constitution, not some ruddy idiot name Bush, or Wilson, or any other president.
      (con’t next post)

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
    • The10thAmendment
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 7:44pm

      Our obligations as a Military are to THIS people, not other people that the president or federal government wants to chum up to to increase their power.

      If America is attacked, UNLEASH the full arsenal of our military might. NOTHING off the table, and “innocent” civilians be damned for what they have allowed their government to cause. The last thing in would be boots on the ground. The industry of war would give our Generals (who should dictate means, not some power peddling idiot of a president or Congress) the tools, meaning bombs and more bombs to send peon Nations like Afghanistan to pre Biblical standards of life. If they refuse to UNCONDITIONALLY surrender, nuke the bastards until their desert wasteland is a sea of green glass.

      Looting them? What does conquest have to do with looting and raping? Power peddling and refashioning the world to the elites vision is every bit as much of a conquest as what those things you mentioned are.

      If, as you suggest, we are not there for conquest, that makes what we’re doing there absolutely immoral none the less.

      Their ways ARE NOT our ways. We have no business in helping to depose their rulers to erect democracies, which are a code name for fascism, if not outright communism, or the tyranny of the elite.

      I take pride in giving American troops technology that keeps them safe, and able to kill the enemy. I will support them always, but I will NEVER support the immorality and ILLEGALITY of conquest.

      Report Post » The10thAmendment  
  • DavidZion
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:52am

    Pakistan isn‘t our friend there are those in the government that want to keep the crazy’s out of control. But not because they like us because they like the power themselves. Because of the Christian values we all grew up with most Americans can’t grasp that 3/4 of the world doesn’t want to do the right thing. They just want the power for their family, their clan and they will be a friend or fit the agenda of those that will provide them access to that.

    Report Post » DavidZion  
  • garyM
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:50am

    Part of the plan.part of the plan! God help us!

    Report Post »  
  • garyM
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:45am

    Could this be part of the socialist plan to pull out of Afghanistan much earlier than has already been announced? If you can’t supply the troops, you have no choice right. You’ve surrendered in Afghanistan and Iraq before the election, giving the left more votes.Is this hard to see? The only reason were ever there were in either was to prevent Muslims from attacking America, if that is the objective to help them do this, this move to pull our troops out could make that a possibility if not a probability! Vote democrat in 2012 you idiots!

    Report Post »  
  • karen162
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:44am

    Oh boy….not good. If we are trying to stir the pot, we are doing a really, really good job of it in the Middle East. Now, if those troops were sympathetic to Al Qaeda or the Taliban….then Pres Obama needs to start saying that, NOW.

    Otherwise, we’re just stirring the pot. It takes many people to make the decision to fire, so who was giving the, “bad” information on this call?

    Report Post » karen162  
    • 13th Imam
      Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:52am

      Probably the ONE who made the decision was , Who Else, in this case , Anybody but Barry. If the raid had gone off on a bunch of Al-Quida or Taliban, BARRY would have been at the Teleprompter in Chief taking Full credit. But when the SHFT and intelligence turned faulty, BARRY went on Vacation.

      Report Post » 13th Imam  
  • ares338
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:35am

    This is the first of many steps to getting the US out of Pakistan. I have news for our rag headed friends, that is exactly what we need to do and I would welcome this move. No more foreign aide…no nothing!

    Report Post » ares338  
  • RightPolitically
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:32am

    A fine mess.

    Report Post » RightPolitically  
  • Shrkb8sd
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:26am

    Mr. Obama needs to make a call and let them know if they cut our supply lines we cut all financial aid.
    Grow a pair Barrack.

    Report Post »  
  • BONETRAUMA
    Posted on November 26, 2011 at 11:25am

    God will sort them out

    Report Post »  
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