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Palestinians Respond to Gingrich‘s ’Invented’ Remark: ‘Most Racist Statement I’ve Ever Seen’

Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:43am by Madeleine Morgenstern
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Palestinians Respond to Gingrichs Invented People Remark: Most Racist Statement Ive Ever Seen

Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad demanded Gingrich "review history" after he called the Palestinians an "invented" people. (AP Photo)

Editor’s note: This post has been updated, see below.

Several Palestinian officials reacted with anger Saturday to Republican presidential candidate Newt Gingrich’s statement that the Palestinians are an “invented” people.

“Remember there was no Palestine as a state. It was part of the Ottoman Empire. And I think that we’ve had an invented Palestinian people, who are in fact Arabs, and were historically part of the Arab community. And they had a chance to go many places,” the former House Speaker told U.S. cable network the Jewish Channel, which released excerpts of the interview Friday.

In response, Palestinian Prime Minister Salam Fayyad demanded Gingrich “review history.”

“From the beginning, our people have been determined to stay on their land,” Fayyad said in comments reported by the Palestinian Authority-controlled news agency WAFA. “This, certainly, is denying historical truths.”

Top Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat had stronger words, calling Gingrich’s comments, “the most racist statement I’ve ever seen,” according to CNN.

Erakat said the remarks show “how really despicable things can get” in American politics and that “such thinking should be an alarm and concern for the world.”

Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi said Gingrich had “lost touch with reality” and that his statements show “ignorance and bigotry” and were “a cheap way to win [the] pro-Israel vote.”

A spokesman for Hamas, the terrorist organization that controls the Gaza Strip, called Gingrich’s statements “shameful and disgraceful.”

“These statements…show genuine hostility toward Palestinians,” spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said.

According to CNN, Gingrich rival Mitt Romney also questioned his comments.

“I’m not sure that kind of statement gets us any closer to accomplishing an agenda,” said Mary Kramer, former U.S. Ambassador to Barbados and Romney surrogate. “And so that’s one of the things that I think makes me a little bit nervous about Speaker Gingrich is that he sometimes makes comments that open to very broad interpretations.”

UPDATE: Gingrich’s campaign has issued a statement clarifying his remarks, though not taking them back. According to CNN, Gingrich press secretary R.C. Hammond said the candidate “supports a negotiated peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, which will necessarily include agreement between Israel and the Palestinians over the borders of a Palestinian state.” Hammond added, “However, to understand what is being proposed and negotiated you have to understand decades of complex history — which is exactly what Gingrich was referencing during the recent interview with Jewish TV. ”

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

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Comments (513)

RodT82721
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:05pm
Once agin we see how the actual truth is handled in our global culture. Anyone that actually speaks the truth to uncover the ongoing schemes, are immediately set upon. Look how they treated Beck when he warned of the Egypt Spring uprising spreading. Now it’s Newt lesson in history. Everyone is lying to each other to gain control (money).

How much did Arafat skim off the top from the USA contributions, to ‘help’ his people? How much do the millions of Arabs want to give to save the Palestinians? And how is it that the smallest sovereign country in the area has give up their land to appease these 17th century cut throats?
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- recoveringneocon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:06pm
  Yes when Newt speaks the truth he is a hero. When Ron Paul speaks the truth first his words are twisted and bent, then he becomes, a nut, kooky, old senile man, naïve, foolish, crackpot, coward, etc. Funny how the truth works.
  Report Post »
- jzs
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:08pm
  Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Mathew 5:9
  
  I guess that leaves Newt out.
  Report Post »
- Marci
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:16pm
  Not a fan of the Newt, but he is correct. There IS NO PALESTINE. If they want to get real, they need to provide us with some historical context. But they can’t. It’s not a real state.
  Report Post »
- John 1776
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:17pm
  So odd.. On this point, Newt is right on the money. It never was a land. These people want to kill the legitimate citizens of Israel and use the “PLO” concept as an excuse. For them, the ends justify the means. There was never a land called “Palestine.”
  Report Post »
- Rob Adkerson
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:34pm
  recoveringneocon , that’s because Ron Paul sprinkles into his truths things like “end the fed” and “go back to the gold standard.” Not to mention wanting to allow Iran to have nukes. He’s on target on a lot of libertarian issues, but he’s pretending like we live in a world where Iran nuking Isreal( Even if they fail, Isreal would turn Iran into glass) wouldn’t start a third world war.
  Report Post »
- Vechorik
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:49pm
  It‘s statements like Gingrich’s that makes people say “all Republicans are racist.”
  Report Post »
- From Virginia
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:59pm
  @Vechorik – Unlike true racists (democrats/liberals) who use race to divide and call everybody racist (whether the term applies or not) when they don’t have a valid argument on any given subject.
  Report Post »
- independentvoteril
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:00pm
  @VECHORIK..How can what Newt say be racist? firstly IT’S true .. secondly..their DNA proves what they are.. actually at one time they were called BOAT people.. THEY are like the Gypsy’s …. it’s a way of life NOT a race..
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:01pm
  Why doesn’t the “historian” Newt explain the British Mandate for Palestine so we know exactly who invented the Palestinians.
  
  All the States in the ME were “invented” and carved out of the Ottoman Empire, including the Jewish.
  
  Just like all the States of the USA were carved out the Native American empire.
  
  Newt only wants to control Israel and dangle aid over her head if she does not do as Americans say like he threatened in the 90′s as Speaker over a criminal.
  
  Jews and Palestinians can fight and argue over their land. We should have no say in it. Self reliance and Independence…..Let Americans politics deal with American issues, not Jewish and Palestinian.
  
  Newt is a progressive. Do not trust him. If you believe Americans or an American President have a say or should have a say over Israel or Palestine you are following Progressive doctrine and agenda. Leave Israel and the Palestinians alone. Mind America’s business.
  Report Post »
- 1proud_Texan
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:02pm
  Funny how the leader of Hamas calls Ginrich’s remarks “shameful and disgraceful”, but they condone strapping bombs to their children to kill the Jews! It’s even celebrated
  Report Post »
- hillbillyinny
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:03pm
  @ jzs:
  
  Please read in context, the verse you quote from Matthew 5, AND the two preceeding verses:
  
  “8 Blessed are the pure in heart, For they shall see God.
  9 Blessed are the peacemakers, For they shall be called sons of God.
  10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
  
  In otherwords, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” John 8:31&32
  
  Those with any background UNDERSTAND that the “palestinians” have had NO HOMELAND to date, but are a comglomerate of Arab bedowin people who have squatted in this area off and on for many years.
  
  THE TRUTH HAS NO AGENDA!
  Report Post »
- hillbillyinny
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:04pm
  @ jzs
  
  Sorry, “preceeding” verse and verse following the one you quoted.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:12pm
  Newt just subtly apologized and supports a Palestinian State!
  
  “UPDATE: Gingrich’s campaign has issued a statement clarifying his remarks, though not taking them back. According to CNN, Gingrich press secretary R.C. Hammond said the candidate “supports a negotiated peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, which will necessarily include agreement between Israel and the Palestinians over the borders of a Palestinian state.” Hammond added, “However, to understand what is being proposed and negotiated you have to understand decades of complex history — which is exactly what Gingrich was referencing during the recent interview with Jewish TV. ””
  
  Newt shows he supports what he calls an invented people to have a State:
  “supports a negotiated peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, which will *necessarily* include agreement between Israel and the Palestinians over the borders of a *Palestinian state*.”
  
  Told you, do not trust Newt. He is progressive.
  Report Post »
- thegrassroots
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:15pm
  Good For Newt! He caused Palestine to sit up and take notice. Newt in the White House means that the White House will join America in its support of Israel and Palestine doesn’t like it.
  
  So Long BHO and take Palestine, et al, with your un-American self!
  
  Look’n forward to the debate on ABC tonight!
  Report Post »
- Viet Vet
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:26pm
  Ron Paul: “a nut, kooky, old senile man, naïve, foolish, crackpot, coward, etc. Funny how the truth works”
  
  Pretty well sums it up..
  Report Post »
- Faith1029
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:30pm
  The history book one needs to read about Israel is the Bible. The land was given by God to the Jews. It is their land and always will be. God will see to that. This is why I like Newt. He is real, tells the truth and isn’t afraid that it may not be PC to tell it like it is. I think he would make a strong leader, be good for our country and restore us to honor once again. We cannot vote for someone who does not see America as a great nation and a shinning city upon a hill. We cannot vote for a leader who apologizes to other countries for imagined sins committed and insults Israel. We can be a great nation if we have a strong leader, one that will stand with, and for America.
  Report Post »
- chazman
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:34pm
  … you lousy, murderin’ muslim camel kickers! Yer days are numbered!!
  
  How’s THAT for a racist statement! Here, have some bacon!
  Report Post »
- Viet Vet
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:38pm
  @Faith1029
  
  Newt is definitely the most qualified of the various candidates.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:47pm
  @Faith1029
  
  Do you support the progressive agenda of America telling Israel what to do?
  
  I feel you misrepresent the Bible’s words to fit your worldly agenda. The land was given to bring about the Messiah Jesus Christ. Daniel 9:25-27 explains upon Christ coming and being rejected by the Jews Jerusalem would become desolate and over ran with Gentiles until the end of time. It has been that way since.
  
  Point being this whole feud over land has nothing to do with God but has everything to do with the progressive agenda. An agenda that is evil and goes against God’s Word. Progressives want to be the redeemer, the savior and solution to all problems. They know better don’t ya know………..
  
  Are you the of the seed of Abraham? I am thru Jesus Christ according to Paul in Galatians 3. Am I promised land then in Israel?
  Report Post »
- West Coast Patriot
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:55pm
  We need to go with a President who follows the Constitution in everything he does and will actually act on his sworn oath to protect and defend the Constitution. There is only one honest candidate that I will trust with this. Everyone knows who he is, Ron Paul. If you continue to do what you’ve always done, you will continue to get what you’ve always got. Stop voting for candidates that have to move their position to the left or right or to the center or change their opinion on a subject to get elected. They are lying if they do that. Let’s not blow it for this may be our last chance to get it right. One person who tells the truth no matter how bad it is. He’s the guy.
  Report Post »
- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:07pm
  Well well, what you just seen in action little ones IS ANOTHER flip flop by the fat progessive warthog called newt..First he tells the truth, and as it becomes less politacally expedient he changes his retoric to appease those that have rewrote history…And you morons really trust this animal? He will say whatever he can to be nominated….then flip flop in mere hours….I want a president that DOES NOT FLIP FLOP just for political points…
  Report Post »
- Faith1029
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:10pm
  OKIE:
  
  God declares to whom and why He is going to give the Holy Land, “Therefore, say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God, ‘It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. And I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord …” And then, “For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands, and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean … I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you. …” (Ezek. 36:22-26)
  
  The Bible clearly shows that God is going to give “His Land” to Israel. Not because they deserve it, but because His great name is at stake – God cannot break a promise. It is after this that God will bring the Jews to repentance and give them a new heart. He will accomplish this through delivering them from a coming war that will almost destroy the world.
  Report Post »
- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:15pm
  @ROB ADKERSON
  Did you really think before you posted?? You just made recovering neocons point! Dr Ron Paul is talking about the fed and also gold standard…He does that to point out the TRUTH that we need to go back to the gold standard and end the unfederal reserve…Do you even know what the unfederal reserve is? Dr Ron Paul is the only one telling the complete truth…your point that because he is mentioning it means he is lying is completly backwards..
  Report Post »
- MONICNE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:37pm
  Young people might consider him right. But the majority of us have had it with these upstarts – who should really try paying their dues before spouting off about injustice and prejudice. Newt has been around the block. He has vast knowledge and tells it the way he believes at any given moment, which is sincere and wise.
  
  TEA
  Report Post »
- Polwatcher
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:53pm
  Ron Paul is an honorable guy. I like him. He has a great son. He has some great ideas. He is consistent. I could get past his position on drugs but I can not get past his crazy position on letting Iran have nukes. The Iranian leaders are real bonifide nut jobs and Paul doesn’t see this.
  Report Post »
- recoveringneocon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:59pm
  independentvoteril
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:00pm
  @VECHORIK..How can what Newt say be racist? firstly IT’S true .. secondly..their DNA proves what they are.. actually at one time they were called BOAT people.. THEY are like the Gypsy’s …. it’s a way of life NOT a race..
  
  Gypsy’s or Roma have their own language and certainly are an ethinic group. Please do your homework before your fingers start typing. You do no one a favor here when you spread ignorance.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:59pm
  @Faith1029
  
  So you are saying Ezekiel 36 is talking about the current state of Israel and not the return from Babylon? You must be a 7 year tribulation believer….Those beliefs discount Jesus Christ and His purpose.
  
  Return from Babylon built the Temple that brought about Jesus Christ who gave us all new hearts thru belief in Him.
  
  When Israel, Northern Nation, was taken into captivity did God break His land “promise”?
  
  When Judah, southern kingdom, was taken into captivity did God break His land “promise”?
  
  When the Romans came and made Israel/Judah desolate and over ran with Gentiles until this day, did God break His land “promise”?
  
  Your story doesn’t add up……
  
  If I’m the seed of Abraham thru belief in Jesus Christ and the seed of Abraham is blessed and has a land promise am I not a part of the promise to land as well?
  Report Post »
- smackdown33
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:18pm
  Using the Gingrich non-logic, there are no Iraqis either. They were formed from the fall of the Ottoman Empire as well.
  Second, there is no nation one Earth that is more racist than Israel. It publicly acknowledges that it wants to be an ethnic nation of Jews. It has engaged in ethnic cleansing to achieve that goal. Should sound familiar to those knowledgeable of 1940′s history, when the shoe was on the other foot.
  If it’s good for the goose, then it must have been good for the gander… but, back then they claimed to be the victims. Go figure!
  Report Post »
- smackdown33
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:20pm
  Another fact, the Palestinians could not have skimmed anywhere near the volume of money and lives that the U.S. has spent on Israel.
  Report Post »
- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:28pm
  @Polwatcher
  Dr Ron Paul DOES NOT want iran to get nukes! His statement was twisted by the media, pleasecgo back and look at what he really said! It is a cute destructive soundbite to say “ Ron Paul wants iran yo have nukes” but it is simply false..Many that oppose Dr Paul oppose him for that reason but theyvdo not stop to really see if it is true! If Dr Ron Paul becomes president there is alot of gov corruption with military contracts that will be looked at, there are literally billions of tax payer money that is at stake and those corrupt companies at any cost do not want their beloved military industrial complex touched…That is why they push that lie of fear, please do not take my word alone but search the truth for yourself..you will find it if you look.
  Report Post »
- infidel1375
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:32pm
  …Ahem….
  
  *7th century cutthroats. You are giving them too much credit.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:50pm
  “You must be a 7 year tribulation believer….Those beliefs discount Jesus Christ and His purpose. ”
  
  huh? thats insane. who do you think came up with those 7 years?? oh yeah God in Daniel and revelation…I would say get a clue, but its apparently not possible in your case.
  Report Post »
- smackdown33
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:51pm
  RepubliCorp, your link quotes the same Michael Medved who wrote his article, “Jews Run Hollywood. So what?.”
  Surely you didn’t mean to be so biased, or did you? The truth is Israel’s worst enemy.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:58pm
  “The truth is Israel’s worst enemy.”
  
  uh actually the TRUTH is Israel’s best friend…and the truth’s name is JESUS.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:02pm
  “Second, there is no nation one Earth that is more racist than Israel. It publicly acknowledges that it wants to be an ethnic nation of Jews. It has engaged in ethnic cleansing to achieve that goal”
  
  this is a pathetic laughable lie…how many jews live in the lands of the arabs?? ZERO..
  
  how many arabs live in israel? quite a few, and they vote and have full rights as citizens..
  Report Post »
- PATTY HENRY
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:09pm
  Truth hurts. Go Newt!
  Report Post »
- EddardinWinter
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:10pm
  Smack, did you just compare Israel to Nazi Germany? Better save that charge of racism for yourself. Many Arabs choose to live there because they are permitted to live better there than Egypt or Syria. Syria hasi killed more arabs this year than Israel. Get your facts straight.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:16pm
  @Rush is Right
  
  What is insane? Please provide the quote of Revelations talking of 7 years of tribulation. It doesn’t exist.
  
  Daniel’s 70 weeks were completed. You must not understand what AFTER means. “And after* threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off”
  
  First group of weeks is 7
  Second group of weeks is 62
  Last group is 1
  Total of 70
  
  AFTER 62 weeks shall the MESSIAH be cut off means after the 62nd week which comes after the first 7 so AFTER THE 69th week the Messiah will be cut off. In the 70th week Jesus was crucified.
  
  You do not know what you are talking about, thus you believe in the 7 year tribulation myth. It is simply not true.
  
  Your arrogant mouth and insults are not of God so you show why you believe something false and what’s in your heart. Not God.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:39pm
  “AFTER 62 weeks shall the MESSIAH be cut off means after the 62nd week which comes after the first 7 so AFTER THE 69th week the Messiah will be cut off. In the 70th week Jesus was crucified. ”
  
  he was crucified at the 69th week..sorry..
  
  Daniel 9:
  : From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing
  
  “You do not know what you are talking about, thus you believe in the 7 year tribulation myth. It is simply not true. ”
  
  you really should try reading the bible before making a fool out of yourself….
  
  24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[e]
  
  the 70th week has never happened, if it did, Jesus would be here now.
  
  The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:43pm
  in revelation…13
  
  5 The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise its authority for forty-two months
  
  oh gee that same 3.5 years that daniel talked about.. I know its just a ‘coincidence’
  
  ‘Your arrogant mouth and insults are not of God so you show why you believe something false and what’s in your heart. Not God.”
  
  talk about arrogant? oh please check the mirror…what a joke….you’re the one spreading lies about the gospel…..you should repent. what ‘jesus’ do you serve? certainly not the Jesus of the bible…what cult do you belong to?
  Report Post »
- Pendragon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:45pm
  Palestine has never existed . . . as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.
  
  The word itself derives from “Peleshet”, a name that appears frequently in the Bible and has come into English as “Philistine”. Philistines was migrant people from the Aegean Sea and the Greek Islands who settled on the southern coast of the land of Canaan. There they established five independent city-states (including Gaza) on a narrow strip of land known as Philistia. The Greeks and Romans called it “Palastina”.
  
  The Philistines were not Arabs, they were not Semites. They had no connection, ethnic, linguistic or historical with Arabia or Arabs. The name “Falastin” that Arabs today use for “Palestine” is not an Arabic name. It is the Arab pronunciation of the Greco-Roman “Palastina” derived from the Peleshet.
  
  In the First Century CE, the Romans crushed the independent kingdom of Judea. After the failed rebellion of Bar Kokhba in the Second Century CE, the Roman Emperor Hadrian determined to wipe out the identity of Israel-Judah-Judea. Therefore, he took the name Palastina and imposed it on all the Land of Israel. At the same time, he changed the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina.
  
  After the Roman conquest of Judea, “
  Report Post »
- Pendragon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:47pm
  After the Roman conquest of Judea, “Palastina” became a province of the pagan Roman Empire and then of the Christian Byzantine Empire, and very briefly of the Zoroastrian Persian Empire. In 638 CE, an Arab-Muslim Caliph took Palastina away from the Byzantine Empire and made it part of an Arab-Muslim Empire. The Arabs, who had no name of their own for this region, adopted the Greco-Roman name Palastina, that they pronounced “Falastin”.
  
  During the First World War, the British took Palestine from the Ottoman Turks. At the end of the war, the Ottoman Empire collapsed and among its subject provinces “Palestine” was assigned to the British, to govern temporarily as a mandate from the League of Nations.
  
  The Balfour Declaration of 1917, confirmed by the League of Nations Mandate, commited the British Government to the principle that “His Majesty’s government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a Jewish National Home, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object. . . . “ It was specified both that this area be open to ”close Jewish settlement” and that the rights of all inhabitants already in the country be preserved and protected.
  
  During the period of the Mandate, it was the Jewish population that was known as “Palestinians” including those who served in the British Army in World War II.
  
  The current myth is that these Arabs were long established in Palestine, until the Jews came and “displaced” them. The f
  Report Post »
- Servant Of YHVH
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:54pm
  I agree, they ARE an “invented people”, however Newt does have one thing wrong. These people that call themselves palestinians are actually predominately Jordanian. Just like Yasser Arafat, he was not palestinian, he was Egyptian that went to Israel to help build the PLO to try and use it to destroy Israel. Just like their claim to ANY land in Israel is invented. This phony race of people called palestinians were given land of their own when Israel was given land. The land that they were given was called Trans-Jordan and the state of Jordan went in and took it and it is still claimed by Jordan. We all know why they so persistently ignore that fact. If they were serious about getting the land that they were given, they would have to force Jordan to give it back to them. Everything about the palestinians are invented.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:04pm
  @Rush is right
  
  I certainly do not belong to your cult. I am a believer and follower of Jesus Christ. If that makes me a cult, ok.
  
  You read right over it again:
  “Daniel 9:
  : From the time the word goes out to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One,[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 *After* the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing
  
  It says after the 62 sevens, not during AFTER. how do you not understand that? How is AFTER 62 part of 62? That is impossible.
  
  3.5 is not the same as 7.
  42 months is not equal to 7.
  
  Your belief is trying to tie those two verses together to make up your false 7 year tribulation theory. Truth is there is no 7 years of tribulation as falsely taught in the Bible and Daniel‘s 70 weeks were completed during Jesus Christ’s time on Earth.
  
  Jesus Christ came at the beginning of the 70th week. He was crucified 3 1/2 passovers after His anointment (Baptism). 3 1/2 years after His crucifixion Stephen was martyred and the Covenant was then open to Gentiles as Paul left the Jews and began spreading the Gospel to Gentiles.
  
  It is almost as if you reject what Jesus did and His purpose and still believe as those did before Jesus came…why is that? Next time Jesus comes, there will be no 2nd chance. Your theory is false.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:24pm
  @Rush is Right
  
  You wrote I should really read a Bible so let’s do that. You quoted verses:
  
  24 “Seventy ‘sevens’[c] are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish[d] transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holy Place.[e]
  
  The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering
  
  Jesus put an end to sacrifice and the offering because Jesus was the final everlasting sacrifice. At least those who do not reject Him believe.
  
  Jesus made a covenant with many the 3 1/2 years before crucifixion otherwise you a Gentile wouldn’t be saved. War has continued since Jesus Christ. All those things in the verses above Jesus fulfilled. You are denying the power of the Son of God, the Jewish Messiah, King of Kings. Please open your heart and eyes and see what is right before you. Once you find the 7 year tribe is false because it is so much more will be shown to you.
  
  7,62,1
  
  Put your finger on the number AFTER 7. answer 62
  Put your finger on the number AFTER 62. Answer 1
  
  Can’t be any easier to understand than that.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:36pm
  “Anointed One,[f] the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens,’ and sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26 *After* the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing
  
  It says after the 62 sevens, not during AFTER. how do you not understand that? How is AFTER 62 part of 62? That is impossible.
  ”
  
  62 + 7 = 69. simple math. Jesus was cut off at the 69th week, not the 70th…
  
  “Truth is there is no 7 years of tribulation as falsely taught in the Bible and Daniel‘s 70 weeks were completed during Jesus Christ’s time on Earth. ”
  
  this is insane. so where IS JESUS then? hmm?? 70 weeks is it, finish, done, complete, over.
  “3.5 is not the same as 7.
  42 months is not equal to 7.
  
  Your belief is trying to tie those two verses together to make up your false 7 year tribulation theory. Truth is there is no 7 years of tribulation as falsely taught in the Bible and Daniel‘s 70 weeks were completed during Jesus Christ’s time on Earth.
  ”
  
  truth is you’re a liar. the seven year tribulation is daniel’s 70th week.
  
  The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering
  
  middle of the 7th week…3.5 years = 42 months…again simple math.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:41pm
  “The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering
  
  Jesus put an end to sacrifice and the offering because Jesus was the final everlasting sacrifice. At least those who do not reject Him believe.
  ”
  
  uh no He didn’t actually, since the sacrifice continued until around 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the city….you’re not very good in history, math or english are you?
  
  “Jesus Christ came at the beginning of the 70th week. He was crucified 3 1/2 passovers after His anointment (Baptism). 3 1/2 years after His crucifixion ”
  
  oh and if your little theory is right, then the bible is wrong…
  
  26 After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.[g] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
  
  the city and sanctuary was destroyed at the end of the 69th week.
  
  “27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering”
  
  so who was it who confirmed the covenant with the jews?? hmmmm??
  
  you have no answers because your theory is just a fantasy…it doesn’t line up with the bible…you really should stop spreading false doctrine…
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:59pm
  @Rush is Right Joe
  
  No liar here and it is simple math. Shame you can’t get it.
  
  “uh no He didn’t actually, since the sacrifice continued until around 70 AD when the Romans destroyed the city….you’re not very good in history, math or english are you?”
  
  Jesus was the final sacrifice to those who believed on Him. This who kept sacrifice animals were not believers of Jesus and weren’t of God.
  
  “oh and if your little theory is right, then the bible is wrong…”
  
  Wrong again, the Romans did come after the anointed one was put to death. It doesn’t say in during the weeks but AFTER…you have a hard time with that word.
  
  “the city and sanctuary was destroyed at the end of the 69th week.”
  
  No because Daniel says the anointed one comes after the 69th week. Romans didn’t come when Jesus was on Earth. They did in 70AD.
  
  “so who was it who confirmed the covenant with the jews?? hmmmm??”
  
  Apostles…..All who believed upon Him before His crucifixion. Did you forget about them?
  
  “you have no answers because your theory is just a fantasy…it doesn’t line up with the bible…you really should stop spreading false doctrine”
  
  I think it’s been shown who has no answers and believes in a false theory. Simply put your finger on the number AFTER 62. Every time it is 1 (70th week). I hope you don’t try to deny that as well.
  
  7,62,1
  
  Have a great night.
  Report Post »
- wzanesdad
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:04pm
  JZS,
  35.Psalm 51:6
  Behold, thou desirest truth in the inward parts: and in the hidden part thou shalt make me to know wisdom.
  Psalm 51:5-7 (in Context) Psalm 51 (Whole Chapter)
  36.Psalm 54:5
  
  JZS, telling the truth does not mean newt does not want peaxe. In fact, peace can not be achieved without a complete understanding of the truth.
  Report Post »
- Snafu777
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:09pm
  @ Rush is Right & Okie from Muskogee
  Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour knows no man”
  Why argue about something so inconsequential? “When” is not of any importance at all unless we’re planning to be “spiritual layabouts” until then. (which is NOT something I’m accusing either of you of being.) Without regard to any prophetic scriptures, isn’t it better to assume the worst and go from there? I can only speak from my experience, but when someone’s view of “how something should happen” is shattered it only serves as a burden. I’ve seen people lose everything because of this kind of assumption… Faith, Family, Friends. How about we “assume” that we’ll all be beheaded in a “post trib” situation and be happily surprised when it doesn’t happen that way?
  Report Post »
- COFemale
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:39pm
  JZS, please don’t tell me you think the Palestinians are the “peacemakers”? Please tell me you are not this ignorant? I beg you, please go read up on history. Is that too much to ask? Then come back and we can have an intelligent conversation.
  Report Post »
- Servant Of YHVH
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:47pm
  I am getting a kick out of this argument over numbers mentioned in the Bible how to add them and figure them without understanding the Jewish mindset (which is opposite of the western mindset). Also, arguing over something that is totally insignificant and meaningless to our salvation. Just what the adversary tries to get us to do.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:47pm
  @Snafu777
  
  You are right no one knows that day nor hour but we are to know the signs and they are pretty clear.
  
  It is our duty to speak truth around God’s word. Sharing truth showing the 7 year trib false is what we should do. Stand in truth.
  
  I cannot rightfully sit by while a false doctrine of God’s word is spoken. Not to speak is to speak.
  
  I don‘t come to fight insult or belittle but to share God’s Word properly and correctly especially against those encouraging there is a “2nd chance” if you miss the first one as taught in 7 year trib. If one doesn’t want to see the truth their choice but I cannot sit back and not share it.
  
  I appreciate your concern much. Hope your night is great.
  Report Post »
- Tall Tal
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 8:11pm
  Check the Bible out and you will see that God Almighty (not alla the moon god) gave the Jews the land from the Euphrates river to the Med to His people The palastians are the intruders. One day we will see the power of God prove whos who and then where will be the hamas and all terrorist be? Dead.
  Report Post »
- Anadara
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 8:12pm
  Actually, Newt is historically correct. The Palestinians have never had a country, they were a nomadic group of Arabs that the rest of the Arabs in the region looked down upon; that is, until Israel became a state. It appears to me Saeb Erakat is “the racist” in this arena.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 8:45pm
  “Jesus was the final sacrifice to those who believed on Him. This who kept sacrifice animals were not believers of Jesus and weren’t of God. ”
  
  I‘m bet Jesus is glad to know He doesn’t have to judge anyone since you’re playing God and judging people.
  
  the word of GOD, not okie, is very clear…the sacrifice is to be stopped in the middle of the 70th week…that didn’t happen…Jesus was cut off after the 60th week…the 70th week should have completed about 40 AD, if you are right…but it didn’t…
  
  and what was the covenant??? and who is it who breaks it?? hmmmmm???
  
  Wrong again, the Romans did come after the anointed one was put to death. It doesn’t say in during the weeks but AFTER…you have a hard time with that word. ”
  
  the romans WERE ALREADY THERE…how hard is this? the people of the prince who shall come…means he wasn’t there at the end of the 69th week….simple english…
  
  “Apostles…..All who believed upon Him before His crucifixion. Did you forget about them? ”
  
  this is delusional…you can’t read simple english…pathetic…its says HE..not THEM
  
  “27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering”
  
  sigh…I would say get a clue, but its not possible in your case. and whats the covenant? hmmm?? you have no answers because you can’t support your fairy tales…
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 8:50pm
  “I think it’s been shown who has no answers and believes in a false theory. Simply put your finger on the number AFTER 62. Every time it is 1 (70th week). I hope you don’t try to deny that as well.
  
  7,62,1
  ”
  
  7 + 62 = 69…when the messiah is cut off…you say the 70th week has happened…so again WHERE IS JESUS?? hmmmm?? you can’t answer..
  
  who was HE who made a covenant with the jews?? hmmm?? what was the covenant?? hmmm??? and why didn’t sacrifice end until long after what you say is the 70th week?? hmmmm??
  
  “Why argue about something so inconsequential?”
  
  well because okie says:
  
  You must be a 7 year tribulation believer….Those beliefs discount Jesus Christ and His purpose. ”
  
  so apparently its pretty important to okie…but then no real christian would say that…the differences between the views of eschatology don’t separate real christians.
  
  “I don‘t come to fight insult or belittle but to share God’s Word properly and correctly especially against those encouraging there is a “2nd chance” if you miss the first one as taught in 7 year trib.”
  
  really? given what you posted?? huh??? the God of the bible is a God of second chances…what god do you serve?
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:16pm
  Rush is Right Joe
  
  “I‘m bet Jesus is glad to know He doesn’t have to judge anyone since you’re playing God and judging people.”
  
  Read Jesus‘s words in John and you’ll see He said those who didn’t believe upon Him were of Satan.
  
  “the sacrifice is to be stopped in the middle of the 70th week…that didn’t happen…”
  
  Jesus being the LAST sacrifice to God the Father was in the middle of the 70th week as said by Daniel.
  
  “Jesus was cut off after the 60th week…the 70th week should have completed about 40 AD, if you are right…but it didn’t…”
  
  That makes no sense and not what I said at all.
  
  “and what was the covenant??? and who is it who breaks it?? hmmmmm???”
  
  That who ever believes in Jesus will have eternal life. How do you think you have salavation….
  
  “this is delusional…you can’t read simple english…pathetic…its says HE..not THEM”
  
  Did you forget about the apostles and those who believe upon Jesus before crucifixion…You didn’t read what was written correctly. I forgive you for your insults.
  
  “sigh…I would say get a clue, but its not possible in your case. and whats the covenant? hmmm?? you have no answers because you can’t support your fairy tales…”
  
  The covenant of anyone who believes upon Jesus has eternal life. You must not believe in Jesus Christ or salvation in Him.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:24pm
  “7 + 62 = 69…when the messiah is cut off…you say the 70th week has happened…so again WHERE IS JESUS?? hmmmm?? you can’t answer..”
  
  7,62,1=70
  AFTER 62 is 1 known thru summation as the 70th. Jesus is the hearts of all those who believe. You are believing this is end time prophecy and it is not. It is a prophecy of the anointed Jewish King Jesus Christ who gives you a Gentile salvation.
  
  “who was HE who made a covenant with the jews?? hmmm?? what was the covenant?? hmmm??? and why didn’t sacrifice end until long after what you say is the 70th week?? hmmmm??”
  
  1st it doesn’t say Jews it says with many. All the Apostles and anyhow believed upon Jesus, Jesus made a covenant with. If you believe in Jesus He made a covenant with you. It’s how you a Gentile can have salvation.
  
  How do you have salvation? Why do you not go to the Temple for sacrifice? Is Jesus King? The answer to all those questions are found in Daniel’s 70 completed weeks.
  Report Post »
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:31pm
  @Rush is right
  
  If you go around telling others there‘s a 7 year tribulation in which you’ll have a chance to stand for God then understand many will hear your false words and wait to get right with God. They say well I can wait till that 7 years start and then get right. That’s the false second chance I speak against.
  
  If someone cannot discuss God’s Word with you without being called delusional, insane, etc then Satan has surely won. Believe as you wish.
  
  Just a friendly suggestion, be careful with how you insult and belittle as the Blaze is known to restrict those who speak vile remarks over and over. Just a heads up.
  
  Take care.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:40pm
  “If you go around telling others there‘s a 7 year tribulation in which you’ll have a chance to stand for God then understand many will hear your false words and wait to get right with God.”
  
  have a chance to stand for God??? huh? what false words? I‘ve already proven you can’t even defend your theory its so pathetic.
  
  its simple either the bible is true, and you’re a liar, or you’re true, and the bible is a liar…lthats a hard one huh?
  
  “Why is American politics worried about Palestinians? That is Palestinian’s problems, not USA problems. ”
  
  yeah the muslims LOVE us as they proved on 9/11…we don’t have anything to worry about!!!
  
  “All current Arab countries: Saudi’s, Iraq’s, Jordanians, etc were invented from the Ottoman Empire.
  Just like Americans were invented when we pushed out the Native Americans.”
  
  I hope you will give your land back to the native americans since you feel that way…and return to whatever country your ancestors came from….somehow I‘m thinking ya won’t….
  
  “If someone cannot discuss God’s Word with you without being called delusional, insane, etc then Satan has surely won. Believe as you wish. ”
  
  sounds like satan is speaking through you when you say things like…
  
  You must be a 7 year tribulation believer….Those beliefs discount Jesus Christ and His purpose. ”
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:47pm
  “Read Jesus‘s words in John and you’ll see He said those who didn’t believe upon Him were of Satan. ”
  
  and you get to judge that huh? thats nice….yeah….right….thats HIS place, not yours you arrogant holier-than-thou hypocrite.
  
  “AFTER 62 is 1 known thru summation as the 70th. Jesus is the hearts of all those who believe.”
  
  huh? wow…I think you need to back on your meds….this doesn’t make any sense at all…
  
  “Jesus being the LAST sacrifice to God the Father was in the middle of the 70th week as said by Daniel. ”
  
  uh the jews didn’t stop the sacrifice until the temple was destroyed by the romans…history proves you WRONG.
  
  “That who ever believes in Jesus will have eternal life. How do you think you have salavation….”
  
  so now you’re saying that the HE is Jesus……uh huh….
  
  He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation
  
  “Just a friendly suggestion, be careful with how you insult and belittle as the Blaze is known to restrict those who speak vile remarks over and over. Just a heads up. ”
  
  uh yeah you may want to check the mirror….wow
  Report Post »
- Henry Clay
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 10:53pm
  Rush_is_right
  
  Are you Joe1234 cuz you talk just like him. anyone who dont think like you is called crazy needs meds insane delusional wacko and on and on by u.just look at any post below on this thread.
  I’m not saying okie has it all figured out but he makes a lot more sense than what you do. okie isnt rude and hateful like you either.you sure dont talk like a person of god.grow up
  Report Post »
- My Faith
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:02pm
  Newt is just causing trouble when he should keep his mouth shut. Whether true or not can be debated but what good did stirring the pot do.
  
  @Rush_is_right
  
  Aren’t you a mouthy vile little person. Im sure your moon god is proud of you.go ride a camel loser and shut up.
  Report Post »
- jzs
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:10pm
  hillbillyinny says, “Those with any background UNDERSTAND that the “palestinians” have had NO HOMELAND to date, but are a comglomerate of Arab bedowin people who have squatted in this area off and on for many years.”
  
  Hillbilly, you mean like American Indians “squatted” in the North America. What do you mean “squatted”? You mean they lived there? And then were pushed out like American Indians?
  
  If I understand your point, you’re saying that Palestinians lived in that area, but, because they didn’t have the military force they were displaced. And therefore, for that reason, they have no claim on a their homeland.
  
  Good luck with your idea! You’re at odds with US policy for the last 40 years, but you have a right to your own opinion. I guess you should vote for Newt.
  Report Post »
- Anamah
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:59pm
  And it is so funny than the terrorists can called Gingrich’s statements “shameful and disgraceful.” This despicable Palestinian gangsters have no shame or even at least some sense of his level of ridicule. This Arabs have no honor or dignity. The only think they dominate is the science of deceive and lies. Arafat was in the 60′s the inventor and had the trade mark of Palestinian people”, and he made billions of that. The major scam of history!!!
  Report Post »
- toto
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 12:48am
  The elitist liberals depend on the ignorance of the masses, and the masses are increasing in number. Most people are dumber than a box of hammers.
  Report Post »
- LordGwilym
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 1:03am
  While I don’t personally believe Newt should be the president, I think when Hamas says your “shameful and disgraceful” you must be on the right track.
  Report Post »
- old white guy
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 8:24am
  the so called palis were jordanians, egyptians and other arabs. the only original palis were and are the jews.
  Report Post »
- SamIamTwo
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 10:08am
  Newt said nothing different than what BiBi told the world. Why do you think Obama was sitting there with a smirk on his face? He got schooled and we loved it…but if Newt says it, it’s adding fuel to the fire.
  
  Hell no, the fire is fueled by the Koran, their teachings. And we ALL know it.
  
  HOW MANY TIMES MUST ISRAEL BE DIVIDED? And when will the Arabs recognize Israel’s right to exist and have their own nation? Get back to basics baby.
  Report Post »
- Vechorik
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 11:21am
  If you like Newt, then you like the Tofflers. Do you even know who they are?
  
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=moFsABsJNL4#t=23s
  Report Post »
- Jinglebob
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 12:53pm
  The truth always hurts when it goes against everything the propaganda has said their entire life. The problem was the word “invented” had he said globbed together it would have been the truth as well.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 3:07pm
  @henryclay…
  
  are you satan? you sound just like him, hateful bigoted lying wacko.
  
  you sure don’t speak like someone who has an education. its painfully obvious you’re a democrat, easily led and uneducated…but then I don‘t think you’re capable of thinking for yourself..
  
  @my faith
  
  you’re a vile little hate-filled lying wacko aren’t you now? keep bowing down to your moon god…another uneducated easily led loser on the blaze I see…
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 3:11pm
  @henry clay…
  
  oh that joe guy must be a great guy, eucated, erudite, and intelligent, since a loser like you hates him so….sounds like he made quite an impression on you….
  
  looks like he’s living rent free in your mind….and I bet its VERY cramped in there!!! lol
  Report Post »
- Lucy Larue
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 4:18pm
  RODT82721,
  
  AMEN! AfreakingMEN!
  You are dead on with your analysis.
  I just sent a 50.oo check to Newt.
  I’ll send more when he is the nominee. He IS our Churchill!
  Report Post »
- Henry Clay
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 7:48pm
  Rush_is_Right
  
  All we need to do is look at your posts to see who is of Satan. You are just a paid troll that has been exposed. I’m reporting you to the Blaze so they can kick you off and block you.
  Report Post »
- Clara88
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 8:42pm
  Please support Gov Rick Perry for President…a conservative AND a veteran..GOD BLESS
  http://www.rickperry.org/
  
  Gov. Rick Perry…
  
  “The idea this president now, with Iran getting one of our predator drones in their possession, and he had opportunities — he had two choices. Actually, he had three. He chose the worse. And those two opportunities he had was to either retrieve that drone or to destroy it. And he did the worst of the three. And he did absolutely nothing. And the Russians and the Chinese will have our highly technical equipment now. This president IS the problem,” Perry said at the ABC News debate in Des Moines, Iowa
  Report Post »
- techengineer11
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 8:56pm
  I’m with Bio! lol Great back and forth but Bio wins hands down.
  Report Post »
- ltb
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 8:57pm
  “Palestinians Respond to Gingrich‘s ’Invented’ Remark: ‘Most Racist Statement I’ve Ever Seen’”
  
  —–
  
  Yeah, whatever. Get over it.
  Report Post »
- Clara88
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 9:19pm
  Veterans are supporting a VETERAN….Gov Rick Perry
  Our military deserves a Commander In Chief they can be PROUD of and RESPECT
  GOD BLESS OUR BRAVE MILITARY AND OUR BELOVED BRAVE VETERANS
  http://www.rickperry.org/veterans/
  Report Post »
- Anamah
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 11:30pm
  Who cares what this racist Arab has to say… They are masters on scams and expert on fraud…Always so fake and violent! Enough man, all of you, try to learn how to be honorable.
  Report Post »
- Servant Of YHVH
  Posted on December 12, 2011 at 2:24am
  Let he who is prideful not be prideful any more. We do not need to be prideful as that is against God. Anyone that “teaches” anyone else something is held to a LOT higher accountability than non teachers as teaching someone a human “truth” and claiming that it is God’s Truth will be held to account EXTREMELY severely by God Himself. Make absolute sure of what is the truth before teaching it as the truth. God has said that if a falsehood is taught and it is believed by another person and that it causes that other person to fall away from God, then the person that taught the falsehood is fully responsible for that person’s downfall. I pray that all of you get away from trying to prove to each other what is the truth until all of you learn with absolute certainty what is the truth. One minor thing that I will mention is that the Bible is QUITE clear on the 7 years of tribulation, that is one of the reasons when it speaks about Jesus saying that it cannot be any longer than that because then it would be too long and His people would not be able to hold out any longer and too many would fall away from God. That it would be a longer time than most Christians would be able to hold out.
  Report Post »
- nocalifornia
  Posted on December 12, 2011 at 12:06pm
  To JZS, I guess that leaves out all Muslims!
  Report Post »
garyM
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:05pm
That’s a good endorsement for Newt! We don’t want anyone that Terrorist endorse!
Report Post » Log in to ReplyReply
- Okie from Muskogee
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:57pm
  This should show how progressive American politics has become as well as Religion in America.
  
  Why is American politics worried about Palestinians? That is Palestinian’s problems, not USA problems.
  
  All current Arab countries: Saudi’s, Iraq’s, Jordanians, etc were invented from the Ottoman Empire.
  Just like Americans were invented when we pushed out the Native Americans.
  
  If one stands with Israel the they stand for Self Reliance and Independence. Only progressives who want to control Israel say they stand for Israel thru welfare and military assistants. Why? So when Israel disagrees with the US, the US can say if you do not do as I say we will pull funds and the military like Newt did in the late ‘90’s over a disagreement over a criminal. Control. Is that what Israel wants, to be controlled by the USA?
  
  If the USA can intervene in other Nation affairs them be ready for other Nations to intervene in US border affairs thru the one world government Progressives want.
  
  @GaryM
  
  You must support the progressive agenda. FYI-Jesus doesn’t. Where’s that put you?
  Report Post »
- netmail
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:00pm
  Live and let live or die. If Muslims would have been held to account for collaborating with Hitler like the German people were, we wouldn’t be dealing with (and appeasing) so many savages in that part of the world like we are today. No one gets away with murder like those people do.
  Report Post »
- hillbillyinny
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:49pm
  @ bioengineer and others:
  
  If you REALLY UNDERSTAND who Jesus is and why he came and what he did, all this squaballing about “who crucified (killed) or didn’t crucify (kill) Jesus is totally missing the point! My sins and all of the sins of the world is why Jesus died, to make the once-for-ever payment of blood sacrifice for the sins of all, and to do this in complete LOVE!
  
  If you consider the message of the Bible along with its “stories” myths, well then who cares, and take your chances for The End if YOU want to.
  
  If everyone could live in COMPLETE LOVE (total lack of self-centeredness), none of this would be important. But in true human form we spend more time proving we right that then living for what we believe. Remember, when a religion ALLOWS, CONDONS, EVEN ENCOURAGES lying “to infidels” in support of “Allah and Allah’s purposes,” how do you believe anything they say?
  Report Post »
- thegrassroots
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:41pm
  @GaryM
  
  You Are Absolutely Right!
  Report Post »
Steelhead
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:04pm
yes an Israel did not exist until it was created out of the Ottoman empire by a bunch of white guys in Europe after WWII. C’mon Newt quit kissing booty for votes
Report Post » Log in to ReplyReply
- twistin
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:14pm
  Good thing your head is steel. It won’t rot so quick stuck up your fundament as it is.
  
  Never has been any “Palestinians”. They are definitely a “made up” group.
  
  They are Syrians, and Jordanians or whatever, but they have no claim to the land. That’s what David popped Goliath for. Arabs had usurped the place while the Israelites were busy being slaves in Egypt.
  
  Maybe YOU should invest in a history book?
  Report Post »
- Forbidden
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:16pm
  Come on Dude. Israel has been around for a couple millinium. Surely you are smarter than that? Israel was just re-established.
  Report Post »
- Br@dley
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:20pm
  natives of palestine are palestinian you dolt. just becuase a few western countries didn’t rocognize their sovereignty, it doesn’t make them less of a people.
  
  grow up and get off of the israel bandwagon. they are a horrible ally, and have done nothing for the USA since their inception. unless you call torpedoing the USS Liberty a favor.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:20pm
  Perhaps there is some truth in your comment, but did you know that about 2/3 of them sold their land to Israel at its formation, believing that the other arab countries would be able to retake the area in within a few weeks after Israel was formed and they would just get their land back. The other 1/3 fled the area for fear of the coming war. After the arab invaders were repelled, those who had not sold their land were invited back and many decided to comeback.
  Report Post »
- Southernsoul
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:23pm
  No, Israel existed long before WWII. Is was re-established at the end of WWII in lands that were part of the English Empire and land further taken in war, until the modern era of the US, a common practice. If nothing else, Israel claimed its legitimacy durning the 60′s and 70 when it was attacked by Arab nations and defeated them. Israel’s mistake was in giving back most of the land that they conquered. Just for your enlightenment; Palestine, as a nation, was also offered at the same time Israel was established and Arab nations denighed it. The conflict between Israel and Muslim nations is a battle between 16th century thinking and a modern mindset.
  Report Post »
- TXPilot
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:28pm
  Ever notice how the most intolerant people are always liberals and Muslims? But, they are the first ones to start whining, whenever they feel insulted about anything. The Muslims should feel grateful that they are even allowed to continue living, since they are the biggest, evil disease on this planet.
  Report Post »
- Stoic one
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:30pm
  the palestinians have been the wanderers of the middle east; gypsies if you will. they have no homeland yet claim all as a homeland. Israel has laid claim to the same land for several thousand years. The palestinians were invited to the land redistribution talks after WWII and wanted no part of them. Years later when NO COUNTRY wanted any part of these wanderers they cried..
  
  At best these people are petulant…at worst……….?
  Report Post »
- Roaran
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:33pm
  You can only hold a claim onto the land if you can defend it. If Israel has a right to that land because they’ve been there for a millenium, we ought to pack our bags and head back to Europe/Africa/Asia, as the Native Americans we, as far as I’m aware, the first in America.
  
  I’m not suggesting Native Americans should get reparations or we should leave, but if you think Israel has a right to that land for those reasons, then we have some serious problems.
  
  Israel had the land taken from them unjustly through wars. Jews also drove the inhabitants of that land through war to begin with. Now Israel has been reestablished again, yet the Arabs have had some problems with that.
  
  Neither side has a claim to that land more than anyone else, and the only reason Israel has that land right now is because they can defend it.
  
  That is the truth whether you like it or not.
  
  Now, what do we do? There’s one side that now calls that land their home, and some believe God has made it theirs. The other side feels their home has been unjustly taken, and that God is calling on them to remove them.
  
  The only thing that is going to end this conflict is time and love. Israel has to treat these people in a way, so that future generations will not inherit hatred. If they are not implanted with hate, they will not have any reason to reclaim that land.
  
  Newt clearly knows this, but either in arrogance or intent to stir more hatred, he made one incredibly stupid statement.
  Report Post »
- SCHEXbp
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:35pm
  My favorite cultural reference is a “The Twilight Zone” episode (circa 1960) in which Dennis Hopper played an incipient Hitler in America. When he wanted to refer to kowtowing to the Jews (a la Hitler), he said they were of the land of “Palestine.” So back then people knew the residents of Palestine were Jews – too bad this has been twisted by continual whining Muslim propaganda since then.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:39pm
  I don’t think the palestinians are a plague by any means. But they do need to stop throwing the victim card around and get a new deck. They do create a lot of their own problems then cry about it, not that Israel’s response has been particularly good on certain occasions.
  Report Post »
- recoveringneocon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:39pm
  Can someone explain The British Mandate of Palestine for me? Im a little confused on this issue
  Report Post »
- Rightsofman
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:39pm
  So Moses led the Chosen People to where? Poland?
  Report Post »
- Beckofile
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:45pm
  How about we stop payment to all those countries and do as Washington wrote and be benevolent to all. No support to friend or enemy. Just stay the hell out of their business.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:46pm
  Forbidden, tell us all then, what type of government was the State of Israel throughout all those millenium? Name all of the countries presidents? Apparently you’ve never read the Bible, there never was a STATE of Israel before 1948. Israel was a land, not a country. Hey look, there is even a Wikipedia article about this…
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel
  
  How about the Palestinians, how do they fit in with all this?
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1936-1939_Arab_revolt_in_Palestine
  
  After the Ottomon empire fell the British came in and forced their rule on the Arabs. They didn’t like British rule any better than they liked Ottomon rule. And in 1948 they didn’t like western-supported Israeli rule any better than they liked the British rule.
  
  The Palestinians were unquestionably there. And they happily would have formed their own “state” had the British empire left them alone.
  
  Twistin, LOL. History book, nice suggestion. Perhaps you can recommend one… (rolls eyes)
  Report Post »
- normbal
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:49pm
  This is exactly true. Palestinians are made up of scattered remnants of tribes of people who would as soon cut each others’ throats as sit down to tea with them. Kicked out of every decent country in surrounding lands and used as a force for evil against Israel. You go, Newt, you progressive globalist, you.
  Report Post »
- AMERICA4EVER
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:51pm
  I suppose you are willing to turn over everything you own to the Indians. To the victor goes the spoils. That’s why we should have been taking oil from a few of the idiots in the middle east.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:52pm
  TXPILOT, One, who are you calling a liberal or a muslim? Two, who’s intollerant? You’re the one that wants to genocide Muslims. Three, I‘m guessing you’re not a Christian, because wow, what a hypocrite that would make you.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:56pm
  Twistin is correct in a lot of ways. England and the west determine the national lines, frequently severing different nomadic arab tribes into states. As for pre-1948 Israel. If you want to talk about what type of government it was, historically, it was a kind of monarchy nation-state… King David.. Saul… Soloman and so forth. The nation state was disrupted with various occupations, but the jewish presence has always been there.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:01pm
  Stoic one, wanderers? You mean like Moses and the Jews? The bedouin culture you describe applies to the entire Middle East and all its people. Islam came about in 600AD, a response to the widespread paganism and idol worship at that time, much like the history of Judaism battling with those same elements throughout the Old Testament. Islam was a kind of restoration from widespread Judaic and Christian apostasy. Who were the Arabs though? Where did the Palestinians come from? They were the direct descendants of the ancient Israelites, you know, the ones that crucified Christ, the ones that built the golden calf at mount Sinai, etc.
  
  There was no State of Israel before 1948, ever. Yes Jews had lived in that area as well, always have. But they lived the same exact bedouin and tribal lifestyle that their Muslim counterparts did. THEY ARE THE SAME PEOPLE, with the same back history.
  Report Post »
- Dosrios
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:09pm
  Steelhead
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:04pm
  “yes an Israel did not exist until it was created out of the Ottoman empire by a bunch of white guys in Europe after WWII.”
  
  Does the name “Jerusalem” ring a bell, jerk ? Predated WWII by a tad.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:14pm
  @Bio… The jewish israelites were not bedouins. Bedouins are truly nomadic and would not build large cities such as was built in Jerusalem by the Jews (Complete with palaces, temple, permanent houses, markets, cisterns, and cemetery). Classifying the Jews as bedouin may be accurate at one point, but they had settled into a non-nomadic society long before Islam came into existence, while many non-jewish cultures were still nomadic.
  Report Post »
- Tranzwarr
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:17pm
  @ Steelhead,
  
  Uhhhm….BUUURRRRRRRN!
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:25pm
  Citizen7145, The modern State of Israel has no relation to the endless succession of ancient tribes, kingdoms, and empires that controlled that land. I highly suggest you actually click on the link I provided to the Land of Israel. See the section “From the Kingdom of Judah to the present.“ So specifically which group grants European Jewish immigrants a birthright to that land and gives them an inherent ”right” to create a state? And what is the basis for this birthright, the fact that their religion is Judaism? Are they practicing the same judaism that this ancient group practiced?
  
  I mean come on.
  
  For crying out loud the jews were at war with each other.
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Judah
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Israel_(Samaria)
  
  About the victim card, please tell us all what you suggest they (the Palestinaisn) do then? It’s not possible for them to patriate anywhere. None of the Arab states will grant them citizenship. Neither will any western states. They have tried for decades now to create a state of their own with no success. They live in land-locked ghettos where they don’t even have enough water to take baths on a daily basis. Even if you don’t find any fault with Israel in even the most trite way, the Palestinians are unquestionably victims. Modern Palestinians weren’t alive during any of the history that led to this point, but they sure have to deal with it on a daily basis.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:30pm
  Additionally, Jews don’t crucify. Romans do.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:38pm
  Citizen7154, re nomadic culture. You’re splitting hairs here big time. My only point is that the Palestinians come from that same cultural line and history. Arab culture (and history) and ancient Israelite culture and history are one and the same. Same people, same culture, same history. Within that melting pot though there is of course variation. Some lended more towards a truly nomadic lifestyle, others were more tribal and would form cities of sorts. You’re narrowly focusing on one aspect of Arab culture. Step back and look at the big picture. Even today, look at how Arab cities are designed. Homes with high walls organized together within compounds that have additional walls. Some still live as bedouins herding sheep and such, with tents they move around. It’s all very tribal. Ancient Israel was the same, that’s how their cities were designed.
  
  We’re getting a bit off topic now though. Your point as I understood it was that the Palestinians are nomads moving around and therefore have no claim to land or property rights. My position is that that isn’t true. Someone here even pointed out how they “sold” land to the Israelis. Jerusalem was organized as a functioning city well before the State of Israel and was inhabitied by Palestinian Muslims. See borders of the State of Israel pre-1967, it didn’t include Jerusalem. Israel didn‘t take that land until after ’67. So if the Palestinians were nomads, where did that city come from?
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:44pm
  Bio. There can be no doubt that there were tribal issues amongst the Jews. Anytime you have a nation-state Monarchy your going to get tribal fighting. Hell, even Rome had “tribal fighting” early on when it was a republic, it did not make it any less of a united front when dealing with other cultures. Your maps of Judah and Israel illustrate my point decently. Boundaries tend to change somewhat over millenia, but do you think Jerusalem just sprang out of nowhere one day? It is unreasonable to characterize the Jews as the exact same as the bedouins in the region.
  
  As for what the Palestinian’s should do. Glad you asked. Stop lobbing rockets at civilian targets on a daily basis. Get organized. Pick a leader who can actually command the respect and compliance of his people. It means very little when the Palestinian “leadership” attempts to make a peace deal that their “people” won’t follow and they have no ability to enforce. How about Palestinians spend their money on building supplies for infrastructure rather than on weapons. Nothing gets you water faster then building some infrastructure (wells or water pipelines). They apparently have some financial support, but they choose rockets rather than water. Missiles rather than buildings. That is the victim card to which I refer. They will never progress from where they are at unless they choose something different. I don’t hold Israel blameless. They could have left some infrastructure for them, but destroyed it. Shame
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:53pm
  Yes. Jerusalem was a functioning city because the muslims were able to take it over. They added to it. Since you seem interested in the Architectural aspects, that is frequently how cities evolve. One group builds and eventually gets conquer or disappears and the new occupiers continue to live and build there. As you pointed out we are getting far a foot of the issue. You want to focus one close pre- and post 1948. I pointed out that they sold their land to the forming State of Israel. As anyone who possesses land can, but once you sell it, you no longer have a claim to it. If you want to keep the land, then don’t sell it. As for the 1967 lines: If a sovereign entity goes to war with another sovereign entity and one of them concludes that conflict with more land then they had, such is the nature of war. Israel then gave the land back several times and had to retake it in the next war. If the surrounding arab areas do not want their land taken in war, then don’t start a war. It is pretty easy, kind of like not firing rockets into another nation. All you have to do is decide not to fire the rocket.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:56pm
  “Additionally, Jews don’t crucify. Romans do.”
  
  Well that’s a very Clinton-esque take on history. Technically-speaking, true, it was the Romans that carried out the sentence. While the Romans had conquered those lands they allowed the Jews to keep and maintain their government, known as Sanhedrin. As part of their security measures though, the Romans took control over capital punishment. So in order to crucify Christ the JEWISH leaders manipulated Rome into doing it. These Jewish leaders lied and made up charges (Luke 23:2-3) and persisted in their demands for crucifixion (Luke 23:5-19). The people cheering on the for Christ to be crucified were who, Romans or Jews?
  
  In Acts 2:36 Peter said, “Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.”
  
  Who crucified? He didn’t say Romans, he said “house of Israel.” Also see Acts 3:13-17.
  
  The New Testament is very clear about who did what and uses some pretty strong language about the Jews. Not that this has anything to do with the current subject though…
  Report Post »
- babylonvi
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:03pm
  Historically, Newt is correct(he IS a history professor, after all). There has NEVER been a notion called Palestine with a government/King/Leader etc. They were mostly roaming tribes among the areas of Syria and, mostly Jordan(also created). There WAS a Jewish kingdom but it’s people were scattered to the world by Romans. Their biggest problem is that they never learned to play well with others and have tried for over half a century to get their way by terrorism. Maybe the world should go back to ‘City States’ and do away with nations all together. Would THAT make them happy?
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:05pm
  Your right that it has nothing to do with the current subject, but since you brought it up again. Do you think Jesus would have been crucified absent Roman control of the region? If you are a student of history as you seem to be and your being honest with yourself, there is no way he would have been crucified or executed. He was a threat to the Jewish Priesthood, true, but the Romans are the ones that empowered them. Absent Roman support, they probably would not have had the power they had. That was how Rome worked. It would pick a winner in what ever vassel states it held. The winner would serve Rome’s interests and also create an us/them context that would ensure the culture would fight itself, preventing unification against Rome. At the end of the day, any state action taken in the jewish region of the Roman empire was a result of Rome’s involvement and interest.
  
  Feel free to address my issues with what Palestinians can do to better their current position.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:15pm
  Citizen, re Palestinian behavior, you certainly have some legitimate points but it’s also a very one-sided perspective.
  
  1) When it comes to war there is no such thing as a “civilian” target. Would you like a list of all the civilian targets we’ve attacked in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, etc.? Or how about civilian targets the IDF has attacked? Not saying I agree with the Palestinian rocket attacks, just calling out the hypocrisy. If the Palestinians do anything it’s regarded as “terrorism”. If the Israelis do anything it’s cheered as defense.
  
  2) The Israelis have done arguably more to break trust than the Palestinians have. Is it the Israelis, not the Palestinians, that first broke the Oslo Accords. The Accords were meant as a temp 5-year agreement, a phased turnover giving 100% control over the West Bank to the PA. The very first and most important bullet point on their agreement was NO MORE SETTLEMENTS. Not only did they not live to these terms, they increased the rate of settlement development. And in addition to this, they do things like pump water out of the WB into Israel proper, but won’t let the PA have access to what they need. If Israel had done as they agreed and not built settlements and turned over full control of the WB, they wouldn’t have started lobbing rockets, Hamas wouldn’t have come to be, etc.
  Report Post »
- GerryAshley
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:19pm
  Steelhead, Would you deny that there is a Country called “The United States” too? I mean, all we are is a land that was “created” by a bunch of Europeans who established a new country where democracy could live free from tyranny. Did we have to conquer a people already here? Yes, sadly we did. But unlike many countries where they simply slaughter the opposition, we’ve incorporated them into the new tapestry created called America. Did we do a decent job with the Indians? That’s a topic for a discussion of its own.
  
  My point is, America was founded as a nation. Same thing with Israel. Like it or not, they are a sovereign NATION. A GOVERNMENT recognized by other nations The Palestinians are not. They are nothing more than Arabs with an agenda of hatred. When they figure out how to start their OWN nation called Palestine that is built on something besides hatred for Jews and Americans, then they might be taken seriously. Until then, they are NOTHING but sand fleas with opposable thumbs and an agenda of hatred.
  
  And with that, let me apologize to sand fleas everywhere for the demeaning comparison to Palestinians. Everyone KNOWS sand fleas have more to offer.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:26pm
  Bio. Lets presume for a second that you are correct that when you are at war there is no such thing as a civilian target. So is Israel and Palestine at war currently? If no, then they are targeting civilians outside of a war, which is not goo. If yes, then it feasibly would excuse any behavior by Israel, including targeting civilians, which they still haven’t done. Reality is they are not at war, but lobbing rockets at your neighbor is a quick way to get there.
  
  As for the Settlements. It is hard to argue that Palestine did not break that accord first by firing rockets. This is where the leadership issue comes in. One can say that the rocket attacks were not sanctioned by the government. That is true they weren’t, but neither were they controlled. If you want to claim to be the leader of the Palestinians, you better be able to enforce the agreement you make by stopping the behavior of those who would violate it. I agree that the settlements are a big issue and Israel could and perhaps should stop expanding them, but why should they give ground on this issue to a neighbor who lobs rockets, won’t even recognize their right to exist, or has the power to enforce its own treaties against the people that the Palestinian government indicates it represents. It still amounts to the same thing. If we have already established Israel will not be supplying water, then work it out and get your water elsewhere. There is no shortage of other arab countries you could pump water in from.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:34pm
  Citizen, re Christ. That is an interesting take, but pure conjecture. I definitely would agree with you that the Romans facilitated Jewish corruption in many ways and perpetuated it, but it wasn’t something new they created. Overall, I would have to disagree. Christ would have been executed in pre-Rome as well IMO. See the Hasmonean time period where Jews were completely self-governed for over a century. The exact same type of High Priest rule and corruption existed. Those who challenged the prieists were executed. When the Romans took over they may have changed the “brand” of corruption, specific Jewish doctrines were interpreted differently, but it all amounted to the same thing at the end of the day – ungodliness.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:41pm
  If Jesus was of the line of David as claimed, they would never have executed him. Additionally, the popular support of such an individual, outside of Roman occupation could have restructed things. As for the conjecture of the issue. I doubt it is so outlandish given the fact that the Jews had rebelled against both the priests and Romans prior to Jesus and afterward Jesus under the Flavian dynasty when the Temple was destroyed on Vespasian’s orders. The tension was already present and the Roman support helped keep it going for a longer time. In fact, Jesus’s concept of being your own temple and not needing the Priests was not a new concept and had been the impetus for civil disorder previously.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:44pm
  Once more, while I enjoy the wanderings into historical and theological debate. I’d much rather stick to the main issue which is the Palestinian – Israeli issue.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:52pm
  Citizen, re war & settlements. 1) The question of whether a state of war exists depends on who you talk to. Hamas, which is a post-Accords-failing manifestation, openly declares a state of war. In our own American history, the Revolutionaries attacked the Brits well before any formal organization or declaration of war. And targets did also include civilians, and the Brits referred to the revolutionaries (aka our founding fathers) with language akin to terrorism.
  
  2) When you talk about rockets which rockets are you referring to? The very first Qassam rocket was fired in July of 2001. Oslo Accords were 1993. Settlement expansion continued almost immediately after Accords were signed. In fact Israelis argue the Accords authorize expansion in unoccupied territory, but that’s completely against the agreement as it was a 5-year-temp agreement simply for the purpose of turning over control in phases while the PA put a state together. The Israelis treated the Accords like a long-term agreement where the territorial divisions were permanent.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:06pm
  Citizen, “I doubt it is so outlandish given the fact that the Jews had rebelled against both the priests and Romans prior to Jesus ”
  
  The priests were Jews….? You seem to be trying to separate the “good” jews from the bad ones. There is no doubt that there were a lot of good jews, like Christ, John the Baptist, the diciples, and a long list of others that are unnamed. Bottom line is that the house of Israel is who spat on, ridiculed, rejected, and ultimately crucified Christ. They were the ones that were supposed to be waiting for him, that had been brought out of Egypt, etc. Their corruption so far as being in bed with the Romans only adds to their condemnation.
  
  And again, this corruption existed pre-Rome. It existed since the very beginning! They were perverting the gospel and building golden calfs for centuries. The argument about Christ being of the House of David doesn’t persuade me. 1) During the Hasemonean time period was there some rule that nobody of the House of David wouldn’t be executed, no matter what? I’m not aware of any such history. 2) Even if you could point to such history, Christ wasn’t the typical guy. He challenged the “establishment” in ways these priests had never known or even heard of before. Because he was truly a prophet and the son of God. They were backed in a corner. Even if such a rule existed, an exception would have been made for him. Or they could just easily lie like they do and say he wasn’t of the house
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:06pm
  Bio: As to your 1), if we can agree that Hamas has declared war on Israel, and your statement that targeting civilians in war is okay, why then is the idea of settling your enemies territory not okay. It is certainly less brutal then targeting their civilian population, as you would argue is acceptable in war. There should be no issue here then. If Hamas represents Palestine, either actually or through Palestinian “leaderships” inability to control them, then a state of war exists and Israel is within its right to label them as terrorists and take land won as part of that “war” whether through settlement or armed occupation. I happen to think that it is not war, regardless of Hamas’ declaration, and that the Palestinian “leadership” needs to get control of their own people before trying to solve any issue.
  
  As for your point 2). Valid that they were not using rockets of that nature until 2001, but when I say rockets/missiles, I mean it to include mortar rounds and general armament fire into the region. As for them treating the accords as a long term issue. How else can you deal with the irrational, lawless “leadership” but try and work off of the last agreement that was made.
  
  As for my comments: you have yet to address their perpetuating their victimhood through failing to build infrastructure. Disagree? Agree? Additionally, they could easily gain a political upper hand on these issues by stopping the violence from their side. Then we’d focus on what Israel d
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:26pm
  Yes. the Priests were Jews who were oppressing the other Jews. It happens. It is also not unreasonable to parse them out. The Americans were British until they weren’t. However, the point is that when they became the Vassal government of Rome they are more Roman puppet then representatives of the Jews. Not everyone who was on American soil at the time of the revolution fought for America. It was a British colonial uprising from onesides’ perspective. Even then, as soon as it was over, those who were loyal to the British could go to England. My point, the line is murky when revolution is involved. Are they Jews… technically. Are they serving Jewish Interests? No. Are they serving Roman interests? Yes. That becomes a valid distinction when trying to ascertain responsibility. You have a Jewish puppet calling for Roman action and the Roman’s actually putting him on the cross and executing him. So if you want to parse it to its minimalistic act. It is the Romans. If you want to trace the origin of the decision, its still the Romans. The Jews just happen to be somewhere in the chain, both subservient to the Romans and not the actual actors in any event.
  
  As far as his challenges. They had heard them before from others and they destroyed the others. It was harder on the Priests because he was of the House of David. He was not the first to be preaching what he spoke of. I realize that is not supported by the New Testament, which has a different angle. Agree to Disagree.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:35pm
  Citizen,
  
  1) I very much agree with you actually. This goes back to my previous post about how nobody has an inherent right to any land. To the victor goes the spoils. Hamas is certainly at war with Israel. And as such I think it would be reasonable for Israel to regard them as such, even dumb not to. It‘s really just a matter of morals and what side of the fence you’re on. The only side I’m on is the America-shouldn’t-be-involved-or-spend-a-dime-on-any-of-it side. If the Israelis want that land, ok, great, then they should defend it on their own. Likewise to the Palestinians/Arabs. Historically, religiously, I simply don’t agree that the jewish state has a greater claim to that land. No basis for this, no reason for me or my kids to die for them. Morally I will not support the genocide of either the Israelis or the Palestinians. And because of that, I stay out of it. If they want to kill each other, have at it. I’ll write a history book about how it went down. By being involved we do nothing but make matters worse for both parties and put ourselves at risk. See 9/11, see Iran’s expansionism thanks to anti-Israel PR, Al-Qaeda recruitment thanks to anti-Israel PR, etc.
  
  2) The point is that they didn’t live to the agreement that was made, they twisted the agreement into a justification for acting against the Palestinians even more.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:36pm
  Additionally, the “gospel” is the news of Christ’s arrival, which could not have been perverted pre-Christ because he hadn’t arrived yet. You could say they were perverting their covenant with God but even that is somewhat debatable since the single gold calf was constructed after Moses went to Sinai, but before he had returned. Either way, it was not centuries worth of multiple golden calves.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:47pm
  Then we simply disagree, but by a narrow margin. I believe Israel is strong and could beat the snot out of most of its assailants. That having been said, if they lose, even once, it will be absolute genocide by the more extreme elements against the Jews in Israel. That is why they deserve our support. You can say that both sides have acted badly. I’d agree. You can say that we don’t belong there. I’d almost agree, but for the insurance that neither side is subjected to genocide. Since there is only once side aggressive enough to commit the genocide, we should take the side of the party that would be annihilated if they were ever to lose. Regardless, we should still provide some aid to to Palestine, but not in the form of money or weapons, rather infrastructure based aid. They will be less likely to annihilate anyone if they are moderately happy with their current situation. Absent genocide, pull out and let them work out the smaller details.
  
  As far as the claim on the land issue. Since it is the reason Hamas is giving for their war and argument they make continuously, it matters for resolving the issue. That having been said, all we have is history to rely on and both sides see it differently. It will probably remain so forever.
  
  Good talking with you.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:51pm
  Citizen, re Christ again. You’re playing a very flawed game of symantics, arguing some kind of separation between the Jews and Romans that simply didn’t exist. Let’s put it more modern terms. Rome was the country, Roman was the nationality, Jewish was the religion. Everybody in the Land of Israel at that time was Roman by nationality, with the vast majority being Jewish by faith. Christ wasn’t a threat to the Roman state, he was a threat to the Jewish faith as organized. Scripture (and other historical record) confirms this. Scripturally, the Jews (read house of Israel) is blamed.
  
  Now comparing with today, what if a large group of (insert whatever religion) acted similarly and lied in order to trick and twist the legal system of a particular state into executing someone, who would you argue did the murdering? The state or that group of people?
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:05pm
  Bio. You bet your boots he was a threat to the Romans. The Romans wanted control of the region. They supported the Priests. A threat to the Priests was a threat to their control. It is you who are playing a flawed game of semantics; by focusing on the only link in the chain of command and authority that happens to be Jewish. The Romans control the Jewish priests. The Romans and Jewish priests don’t care for Jesus. Roman Soldiers crucify Jesus and stab him in the chest. He was not a threat to the Jewish faith, the faith had already begun to divide in two directions prior to his birth. One supporting the temple tradition and the other supporting a strictly Torah based tradition through a Rabbi. That is part of the reason why he had any credibility with anyone to begin with because he was a Rabbi.
  
  I would argue the State executed the person, every single time and twice on Sunday. You must look at where the authority resides. If the group had the power to execute him and did so, would that be execution by the State? No. It would be a lynching or something. You could argue that the State is to blame for being easily manipulated, but at the end of the day, the responsibility resides in the State.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:07pm
  Citizen, re Gospel. This would be delving into an wholly unrelated religious discussion. You are right about the meaning of the word “gospel,” but I’m speaking in the broader context. They wouldn’t have used that exact word, and their understanding was incomplete, but the gospel did exist pre-Christ. As Christ said himself, he came to fulfil, not break the law. And the actual nature of the pre-Christ gospel is a matter of debate. For example, baptismal fonts were discovered at the site of the Dead Sea Scrolls and we have records of baptism and other very “Christian” doctrines and ordinances existing and being practiced well before the time of Christ. For another discussion though :)
  
  As for repeated golden calfs though. Obviously I didn’t meant that literally. The golden calf is just a graven image, a physical representation of an idol. And an idol is just a false god. This doesn’t have to be a calf, it can be money, power, food, sex, whatever. Frankly, I would argue that even the Bible is a graven image to many. Are they depending on spiritual guidance or a literal personal (or popular) interpretation of written text that some man wrote? What is the authority, God or the Bible? Anyway, point being, the Jews have a long, non-stop history of idolatry and overal ungodliness from Adam all the way to Christ and post-Christ. It’s a continuous cycle of people becoming wicked, prophet calling people to repent, apostasy, new prophet, apostasy, etc.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:13pm
  Additionally, regarding your analogy regarding the religious group who got the state to execute someone: Its almost like you are not holding the actual executioner guilty of the execution. A Roman swung the hammer that nailed Jesus to the cross. I understand not blaming him. He is an actor of the State after all. Well then blame the state that convicted and ordered his execution. Roman again. Roman governor and authority. It seems like you want to blame the clerk of court who certified the execution order because he was of a specific religion and wanted to see the executed party die. That is no basis for establishing responsibility or accountability for that matter.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:21pm
  Citizen, re Genocide. Here’s the problem I have.
  
  1) What about all the past, present, and future genocides going on in other places like Rhwanda, Sudan, etc., that we do nothing about? Are those people somehow worth less?
  
  2) The situation is Israel is one we are powerless to control. All we can do is encourage both sides to make friends, which we’ve been doing, and so far that hasn’t gone well. And our support is very one-sided. We give money and guns to Israel but haven’t lifted a finger to stop the settlement building. We only give talk to the Palestinians. And with every election cycle our official position changes. One president does this, another does that. The people that the last president ticket off stay mad. There is no consistency.
  
  3) The Palestinians are the ones living in land-locked ghettos. It’s easy to say we should side with Israel because they are the underdog, but are they really? Arabs as a whole are in large numbers sure, but in a contest strictly between Israel and the Palestinians, it is the Palestinians that will die. The Arab states talk the talk with it comes to Israel, but when it comes to walking the walk they haven’t lifted a finger to actually help the Palestinians. They would let them die I think.
  
  4) Long-term it’s a compounding problem. Palestinians growing stronger and in larger numbers. It’s a dynamic that we have to be realistic about. As you say, they only have to lose once, and it’s just a matter of
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:27pm
  Once again, Gospel is not referring to the law. If you are speaking about the prediction that the Messiah would come, that is a separate issue. It has nothing to do with Gospel but to say that it is fulfillment of prophecy. The reason why the pre-Christ gospel is a debate is because it does not exist prior to Christ. Tautologically, it can only begin at his conception with Mary, where the “Gospel” begins. Those were not baptismal fonts near the Dead Sea, they were micvas (Sp?), which were Jewish ritual cleansing fonts. They would submerge in the micvas daily to cleans themselves of sin. So, baptism has a pretty common connection to a concept in Judaism.
  
  As for Jewish idolatry, they do have a history of breaking the rules. They also have a history of keeping the rules. Like any society, I could look at the prison population and conclude we had no respect for the law, but that would condemn the 89% of people who have not sustained an arrest. If as you say there is history of the Jews behaving wickedly, then being called back from wickedness, and this history extends from Jews all the way to Christians today. Why would we call that a Jewish problem and not a human problem. If you look at other mythology, you have a substantial history of people ******* of godsl, then asking for forgiveness (not receiving it in those versions), but you get my point. As long as there has been a concept of deity, there has been humans defying God and asking forgiveness.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:29pm
  Citizen, Also, just an aside for the purpose of interest. I think the Arab Spring movement is an interesting dynamic in all this. It could be really good for Israel or really bad for Israel. The potential for bad is obvious. The potential for good though is that by removing all these despots it could potentially open the doors for Palestianians to patriate in these other states, reorganize things in a way that benefits the Palestinians and eases pressure on the whole situation. Easier said than done though of course.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:35pm
  Citizen, re Christ. Didn‘t Christ himself while on the cross say that the soliders carrying out the execution should be forgiven because they didn’t know what they were doing? I don’t have to give them a pass, Christ did it for me! Pontious Pilot even declared Christ innocent, but the jewish mob still wanted him crucified, so he complied, and was openly guilt-ridden and said how wrong it was. Again, scriptures are clear. House of Israel to blame, Roman Empire is not responsible.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:42pm
  Preventing Genocide was your stated moral axiom, not mind. I think if we are to continue to claim our humanity, we must be against genocide. “We are great because we are good.”Tocqueville.
  
  As to 1): We can not do anything about the genocides of the past, as much as we may regret our inaction. They are not worthless, but we should be ashamed that such genocides were allowed and endeavor to do better.
  
  As to 2) Presidents are allowed to set their own foreign policy. Our support of Israel has been pretty consistent until recently. The support I am referring to is to make it know that if you attack Israel, they will have our military support to defend their boarders. This threat will be enough to keep from emboldening their enemies to make a physical invasion, which will actually facilitate peace talks because the option of genocide will be off the table, leaving room for other options to be considered.
  
  As to 3): The Palestinians will not all be killed. Your axiom suggested prevention of genocide as the primary moral duty. Beyond that, the two sides can kill each other you said. It sounds to me like the Arab states deserve more Palestinian ire then Israel.
  
  As to 4): See 2), but this further supports the idea of the necessity of the settlements. If Israel does not start expanding its populations, the current Palestinian population will breed them out of existence in less than 50 years.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:48pm
  I think I leaned on my keyboard for a second and threw some weird asterisks in there. Sorry about that.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:49pm
  “Why would we call that a Jewish problem and not a human problem.”
  
  I never said it was a jewish problem :) We’re off on a tangent. All I originally said was that Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites, from the time of Christ and before. That spun off into a unrelated discussion of “who done it.” Haha. I’m not saying the Jews are evil or anything like that. Rejecting Christ is an individual thing, equal blame to all. Scripturally though there does seem to be some kind of a particular curse on the House of Israel though for rejecting Christ. That would be another matter for debate though. Not saying I buy into it one way or another. That discussion could also include whether said curse against House of Israel even applies to modern-day Jews. They weren’t alive then. And what is the “house of israel.” Would it be anybody that considers themselves a jew? Mormons regard themselves as the “Elders of Israel.” Anyway…
  
  As for all the other gospel discussion, I have no disagreement there. Christianity didn’t exist pre-Christ, no dispute. I‘m simply saying in a broader context God’s plan and purpose is one and the same. Regardless of what we label it, the religion pre- and post-Christ is supposed to be one and the same. Doctrinal issues like baptism can’t be agreed on even now, the thought of pre-Christ baptism just confuses things even more.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:51pm
  Bio. While I see your point about the Arab Spring. I think it is about 20 years too late. They are far to entrenched now. Besides, if they were to patriate into some of these other countries, they might be viewed as traitors to their Palestinian cause/roots. I just think they are too entrenched to abandoned their current situation. Absent one condition. If some of the neighboring countries (ie. Egypt) finally do invade or gather an invasion force, I think you’ll see Palestinians leave to join that group. It is sad that the hate runs so deep.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:54pm
  “2) The Israelis have done arguably more to break trust than the Palestinians have. Is it the Israelis, not the Palestinians, that first broke the Oslo Accords. ”
  
  wow what a lie, you must be a palestinian propogandist. the palestinians broke the oslo accords when arafat walked out of the summit clinton engineered after the israelis agreed to just about everything except the right of return. and then the peace luvin palestinians started the intifada…
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:55pm
  “All I originally said was that Palestinians are descendants of the ancient Israelites”
  
  another lie, gee what a surprise.
  
  the ‘palestinians’ are arabs…sons of ishamel…the jews are sons of Jacob…sorry
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:57pm
  “Again, scriptures are clear. House of Israel to blame, Roman Empire is not responsible.”
  
  ok you’re an anti-semite too.
  
  actually I am to blame. and so are you.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:05pm
  “Preventing Genocide was your stated moral axiom, not mind”
  
  No, not supporting genocide is my moral axiom. Support and prevention are different. The problem is that in trying to prevent we may actually be supporting.
  
  1) I agree with your sentiments about shame over our inaction. But again, let’s be realistic. In the case of Africa, that entire continent is a mess. We can’t occupy them and dictate morals to them. It‘s not feasible and it just wouldn’t work. Situations like that break my heart, but really, what would you do? Act like police, make targets of our troops? And just for the sake of argument, let’s say it were feasible. Is it even moral to dictate morals? Christianity is about freedom of choice, abandoning the letter of the law and following the spirit. People are not responsible for choices they are forced to make, and they certainly don’t learn anything from them. The western world went through an enlightenment period, the ME needs the same, and it must come from within.
  
  2) Well, I’d dispute that. Not that we haven’t supported Israel, but in the varying definition of what that means. Our inconsistencies in action and words have served to irritate a hornet’s nest.
  
  3) The Arab states may deserve more ire, but you try telling them that. They only know what they see, and that is the Israelis. And the other side of that coin is who created the Arab states? Western powers drew the borders, supported the despots, and keep them
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:09pm
  @Rush is Right: I think you mean sons of Isaac. Easy does it on poor BioEngineer. He is making an argument for something. I don’t think he is intending to cast blame or condemnation on anyone. He is trying to approach the issue in a balanced fashion, which is appreciated. Automatic condemnation is not a good idea.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:09pm
  Citizen, 4) Completely disagree with you there. I lived in both Japan and the Middle East for years. Japan has managed to deal with massive population and land resource problems for centuries. They are packet in a LOT tighter than the Israelis are, a LOT tighter. It was absolutely not necessary for the Israelis to expand into the West Bank, easier perhaps, but not necessary.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:19pm
  Bio: I don’t think that preventing genocide supports genocide.
  
  As to 1) We should have dropped some people in to defend certain areas. Create some safe zones. I am not talking about permanent occupation, but prevention until sanity resumes, which it gradually always does. What is the purpose of being a moral nation if you can not help people. I am not making any moral judgment beyond protect the weak, unarmed people from being hacked to death with machetes. Perhaps it is unrealistic, but if you truly regret the result, then the next time you may be called to action. I believe the Jews say, to save a life is to save a world. I would put my life on the line to prevent that degree of injustice.
  
  As to 2): My point is that it is the nature of the Presidency that the policy will change (even if just slightly) every four or eight years. Other governments understand this. Perhaps it has stirred the pot sometimes, but the Monroe Doctrine won’t fly in this Globalized world.
  
  As to 3): You put me infront of them and I would tell them that. More so if I were Palestinian. I’d let them know that they completely screwed over me and my people. Again with the who created the Arab states? I have to say it is getting old. Literally, it’ll be 100 years soon. If the Arab states don’t like the lines, let them redraw them, they certainly have the Arab League and can do so if they care too. Other than that, anyone who as standing to complain is long dead.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:20pm
  “@Rush is Right: I think you mean sons of Isaac. Easy does it on poor BioEngineer. He is making an argument for something. I don’t think he is intending to cast blame or condemnation on anyone.”
  
  no, the sons of Isaac were esau and jacob…the edomites (the sons of esau) hated the jews…
  
  he’s using the same anti-semitic talking points that have been used for centuries…blaming the jews for Christ’s death…
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:22pm
  “It was absolutely not necessary for the Israelis to expand into the West Bank, easier perhaps, but not necessary.”
  
  uh the japanese aren’t surrounded by people wanting to exterminate every last one of them.
  
  the arabs started that 1967 war, they lost…so they lost the west bank…cry me a river…
  
  answer me this, what have the arabs EVER given up for peace? Israel returned the sinai peninsula and the gaza strip….
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:23pm
  As you pointed out Israel lives in an active war zone. Hamas has declared it so. You should not build the Japanese style community/buildings in a warzone. I am pretty certain that if Japan were under perpetual threat of rocket attack from China, they would probably adjust the way their cities are laid out to be flatter, thus reducing the impact a single rocket could have.
  
  I think easier is a good response. It is easier, and if your neighbor doesn’t respect you then you might as well take the easier and safer option.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:26pm
  “While I see your point about the Arab Spring. I think it is about 20 years too late. They are far to entrenched now.”
  
  Citizen, like I said, could be good or bad. You are probably right that it’s too late. Time will tell. I really think a lot of that depends on Israel and the US though. Elements like Iran, Hizballah want us to attack first, they need us to attack first. Falling into that trap would set the stage for an all-out fight unifying all these states against Israel. If Israel (and USA) doesn‘t act in accordance with the Islamist’s “zionist” narrative, they will lose support. Gaza could easily be adopted as a part of Egypt. If Israel let off the West Bank and allowed its people and resources to freely move between Jordan. Especially in the wake of the Arab Spring movements, Israel and the USA are dumb to not support the Palestinian bid for statehood at the UN. They should wholeheartedly support this. It would fly in the face of all the anti-Jewish zionist arguments. It would also put extreme pressure on Hamas. If the PA were officially recognized then that would also make Hamas officially a rogue terrorist organization, and even the PA (along with other Arab states) would have to support getting rid of them. How would regognizing them at the UN hurt? The UN is a toothless irrelevant tiger anyway. Play their game. If the newly recognized PA state fails, then Israel has justification to bulldoze them for good.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:29pm
  @ Rush is Right: I understand that Esau didn’t care for Jacob. After all he did screw him out of his birthright. but the common divide between Judaism and Islam is tracked back to a Ishmael v. Isaac situation. I also understand that Bio is making an argument that is frequently adopted by anti-Semitic individuals. I don’t think he believes these things because he is anti-Semitic. It is the difference between a matter-of-fact statement and a statement of condemnation.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:36pm
  Bio: I actually think that support of a Palestinian State would aggravate the situation. If you think they are entrenched now, wait until they are a state. It might fly in the face of the ant-zionist argument, but it would also help create a Palestinian State. I am fan of a two state solution, but that should be worked out between Israel and Palestine first, then bring the UN in. The last thing this thing needs is more bad cooks in the kitchen. It wouldn’t get rid of Hamas. Look at the Islamic Brotherhood and the Libyan rebels… terrorist regrettably, frequently fit right into newly formed arab states. Besides, if you play the game with the UN, then they get teeth. Keep them toothless. If the state Fails and Israel bulldozes it then there will be a higher degree of condemnation towards them because they bulldozed a UN created state. What is to then keep them from being bulldozed by the international community.
  
  I absolutely agree that they want the US or Israel to attack first. That is why I ascribe to a purely reactionary approach. If they attack, then defend. It is what we do best. Keep the moral high ground and make sure that people are safe.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:45pm
  Citizen,
  
  “I am not talking about permanent occupation, but prevention until sanity resumes, which it gradually always does”
  
  You mean like Iraq, a failed state, or Afghanistan, another failed state? Or maybe Vietnam? Can you name a single case where our intervention has succeeded in preventing genocide, preventing regime change, or imposing a regime change?
  
  Sanity takes generations to resume. And when you’re occupying them they stop fighting each other just long enough to fight you. The nature of the conflict changes entirely to one of resisting the occupiers.
  
  2) People on the ground in Palestine don’t understand our politics, nor do they care. That’s a very “parental” outlook. I‘m not sure what you’re getting at with the Monroe Doctrine…? I feel another tangent subject coming :)
  
  3) Easy to say when you didn’t grow up there. Have you even travelled there as a tourist? I’ve lived in the ME for years. I’ve been to Israel and the West Bank. Standing next to a crazy high wall with barb wire and machine gun turrets and guard towers and tanks on the hills and F16s flighing overhead, etc., etc., I’d love to see you try and tell them this. “No, no, you‘re real enemy isn’t the Israelis that displaced your grandpa, it’s the Arabs in all these other states.” Sorry. And you are free to go over there and tell them that if you like, just buy a plane ticket. You don’t need a visa or anything.
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 5:48pm
  Rush_Is_Right, you my friend are clearly imbalanced. Complete waste of time. Thanks for stopping by though.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:07pm
  Bio: No. Not like Iraq. Iraq is the very antithesis of my meaning infact. It was not a defensive war. It did not involve genocide or an imminent threat. We rolled in there toppled the regime (we should not have bothered) and then instead of rolling out, decided to nation build. All wrong in my opinion.
  
  Not like Afghanistan either. We should have rolled in there. Destroyed some Taliban, head home declare victory. Put some CIA on finding bin Laden and move on. Sanity, or relative sanity, does not take generations to resume in Africa. Especially if there is concern that if the government goes to genocide, it will have outside interference. Africa is rather resilient in its ability to bounce back into sanity.
  
  Also, let go of this idea that we’ll be loved. The people who will love us are the people who we prevented from being the victims of genocide. They’ll also understand that we cannot stick around and run their country for them.
  
  I think it is somewhat naïve to think that they don’t understand that a new President means a new approach. They don’t need to understand the finer details, but that part is obvious to most people in the Middle East.
  
  As for whether I’ve travelled. I think your implication is somewhat ad hominem in its attack. I have travelled. I’ve been to Israel and the West Bank. I’ve been through various sections of Europe. I have not lived in Japan, but my wife and sister lived there for an extended time frame. My wife also lived in I
  Report Post »
- bioengineer
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:08pm
  Citizen, I don’t think supporting a Palestinian state would entrench them any more. How can they get more entrenched? And it‘s not even that they’re entrenched, they are imprisoned. It’s physically not possible for them to leave and go somewhere else. You do have a valid point that the UN’s meddling would draw condemnation down the road if the state failed, but really, are they not drawing condemnation already? Bulldozing the Palestinians would draw the same reaction either way. The point is that long-term Israel has only a few options. 1) Two-state “peaceful” solution. 2) Bulldoze Palestinians out while somehow surviving overall Arab/Persian/Islamic response. 3) They cease to exist. 4) They relocate somewhere else.
  
  That’s it, those are their options. #2 & #3 will almost certainly end very badly. #4 I don’t think they are at all willing to do, would never even consider it. So really #1 is their only option. Any opportunity to gain favor PR-wise they should jump on. And every one of these missed opportunities has the caveat of flipping into bad PR. Bad PR in the wake of potential Islamist uprising is not good. Bad PR even increases likelihood of Islamist uprising. I know that I personally got emails from friends of mine in Lebanon, Jordan, and Egypt, all extraordinarily pissed off at Israel and the USA for their response to the UN bid. And these are very well-educated folks.
  
  Anyway, we’ve been at it for a while. I’m out. It’s been fun, hav
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:08pm
  My wife also lived in Israel for a few months. My great aunt was also present there in the administration from early on when it formed. I have a bunch of her letter to the States describing the situation of the ground, where she pointed out the areas where they messed up before it became popular. I have no doubt that if I were to tell the Palestinians that they should be more pissed at their arab brothers that such a statement would piss them off. The question is, is it true and could they benefit from hearing it. I think the answer is yes on both accounts.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:17pm
  Bio: Last word on it. They can always get more entrenched and the International has no shortage of how indignant they can get. Two state solution is the only real solution, but the means of achievement is the issue.
  
  Good talking to you. Have a good one.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 6:44pm
  “Rush_Is_Right, you my friend are clearly imbalanced. Complete waste of time. Thanks for stopping by though.”
  
  yeah I’m not an anti-semitic wacko like you are, I must be crazy huh?
  
  you’re welcome…I’ve enjoyed pointing out your lies bigotry and hatred.
  Report Post »
- circleDwagons
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:59pm
  @bio and @ citizen Great discusion!!! you have both the problems and the solutions. problems- corrupt goverments and weak leaders. Solution – the people. the palestian people are the victims both of israeli/us politics and of poor / corrupt leaders. the pal people need to stand up for their rights. i suggest peacefully. Jesus was a threat to both roman rule and jewish rule. He was all about turning the other cheek. there is another solution other than a two state solution. that would be a one state solution. pals could demand equal rights to israeli citizens. if arafat would have been another Washington his people would not be occupied today. it’s the people ho should demand better.
  Report Post »
- Citizen7154
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 8:56pm
  @Circledwagons: Thanks. It was also a fun discussion to be a part of. You’ve boiled it down to its essentials really well. Glad you enjoyed it. Take care and happy holidays.
  Report Post »
- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 9:07pm
  “He was all about turning the other cheek. there is another solution other than a two state solution. that would be a one state solution. pals could demand equal rights to israeli citizens. if arafat would have been another Washington his people would not be occupied today. it’s the people ho should demand better.”
  
  oh yeah a one state solution..thats what the ‘palestinians’ want…with all the jews dead. gee how nice of you to support that. wow.
  
  ‘palestinians’ that are israeli citizens have equal rights….how many jews live in ‘palestine’ oh yeah none…because your lovely ‘palestinians’ would SLAUGHTER THEM.
  
  oh and the ‘palestinians’ aren‘t ’occupied’….ITS JEWISH LAND…how hard is this?
  
  hell let the arabs give their brother ‘palestinians’ some of their land, since they ‘care’ so much….right.
  Report Post »
I.Gaspar
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:03pm
If that‘s the most racist statement he’s ever seen, this erakat guy must not get out in his own community much.
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- Detroit paperboy
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:16pm
  Such thinking should be an alarm and concern to, assbackward, child molesting 7th century camelhumpers, good for Newt !!!
  Report Post »
- anOpinion
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:20pm
  And this,
  “These statements…show genuine hostility toward Palestinians,” spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said.
  
  These guys are the definition of hypocrisy.
  Report Post »
- Stoic one
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:23pm
  DETROIT PAPERBOY
  
  I think that would be goats and sheep , not camels; unless they have ladders.
  Report Post »
- OldVet
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:42pm
  CONDOM HISTORY :
  
  Interesting piece of history
  
  In 1272, the Arabs invented the condom, using a goat’s lower intestine.
  
  In 1873, the British somewhat refined the idea, by taking the intestine out of the goat first.
  
  I hope you appreciate this update.
  Report Post »
- babylonvi
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:04pm
  Not racist, goat herder, simple history.
  Report Post »
- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:33pm
  LISTEN UP YOU MORONS!!!! Isreal and Palestine IS NOT OUR PROBLEM!! What dont you understand about that?!! We have our own problems…the unfederal reserve, unsecure borders, government tyranny, crony capitalism, fema camps, unpatriot acts, corrupt lawmakers and judges, a bankrupted economy, nwo agenda, rinos and liberals terrorizing our Constitution, our freedoms being stripped away, destroying the right to peaceful protests( you cheer when it’s the ows crowd but we are next),
  lying and dishonest news media, insider trading in congress, ungodly bank bailouts etc, politicians that want amnesty for lawbreakers, legalized baby killing, God being pushed out of our schools while sexual homosexual perversion is brought in, destroying the definition of marriage, bestiality in the armed forces,I can go on!! WAKE UP ALREADY!!! LEAVE THEM ALONE! WORRY ABOUT OUR OWN CRUMBLING NATION FIRST! PULL YOUR BIG STINKING NOSE OUT OF EVERY OTHER COUNTRY AND LETS WORK ON FIXING OURS YOU USELESS DO GOODERS.
  Report Post »
- Pendragon
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 7:34pm
  since when have the Palestinians ever been a race?? Not all Arabs are muslims and Not all muslims are Arabs But all Jews are Jews By Race and then by Faith…Hitler made that abundantly cleas and since The Jews have been proven a Race by Biomentrics as well as Genetics.. For that matter if we get down to it Arabs are a race which infact includes Mr Obama. He is not African American as much by his genetics are Arab. To the victor go the spoils??? Yes by all means in war that has been the case…Allies split Germany with the Soviets, Mexico capitulated to the USA….That said now that the years have passed should we give people in San Diego over to Mexico and the land they have worked on and paid for back??? This is what happens in war and if we are an Ally to Israel as we have proclaimed, then we do it all the way or not at all there is no fence sitting…If it had not been for Israel and the Jews the computer you type on would not be around nor the phone as they created invented and patented the INTEL patent as well as the other processors and the RAM and other components that go into them. So if Mexico fires rockets into San Diego or San Antoine What should the USA do?
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Favored93
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:03pm
This is one of the FEW things I think Newt has gotten 100% right!!!
Israel is Israel always has been always will be. The “Palestinians” are a fake people put there to be a thorn in the side of the Jews.
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rdludlow
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:03pm
He is correct!
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Tri-ox
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:02pm
The palestinian terrorists live in a fantasy world and they are not familiar with truth in any form. Newt is 100% correct.
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RightPolitically
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:01pm
Even though “wormy” Romney might not agree or have the courage to say so if he did, I support Newt Gingrich’s statement, not because he and I are bigots but because IT IS TRUE, the so called “Palestinian” people ARE AN INVENTION!
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neocon1
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:00pm
the BIG lie……
There IS NO Palestine,
there are NO “Palestinians” they are jordanians thrown out by their own country
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- BOMUSTGO
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:17pm
  Palestinains are Satan’s useful idiots!
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- circleDwagons
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:09pm
  if they where “thrown out” then they are refugees and they need a home.
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- From Virginia
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 1:56pm
  @Circledwagons – Maybe – but why is it up to the Jews to provide it? Why not one of the other arab countries that have millions of empty square miles?
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Citizen7154
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:59am
The simple question is it historically accurate? Yes. They were not a nation or an organized people. One might say they are still not organized. The lack of leadership amongst the palestinians is staggering.
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- rose-ellen
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:11pm
  They were part of greater syria-as that whole area including jerusalem was called. The political divisions were imposd by the west. But they were there-with homes and villages and the zionists came from elsewhere[europe mostly]. The name is not what matters but the fact that they were ethnically cleansed by the european interlopers.
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- Viet Vet
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:36pm
  Newt nailed it and the terrorists don’t like it. Toooo FKg bad.
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- rush_is_right
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 4:48pm
  do you ever tell the truth? Arafat was an EGYPTIAN…the ‘palestinians’ are arabs.
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nosharia
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:57am
Now I’m voting for Newt Gingrich for sure.
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poverty.sucks
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:56am
To an awful lot of people, the Truth is offensive.
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- AzDebi
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:03pm
  God forbid the TRUTH be told…You keep going Gingrich…You might just get the nomination simply by telling the TRUTH! “They” are afraid of us now…“They” have FINALLY awakened “The Sleeping Giant”; We The People!
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- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:42pm
  AZDEBI
  I agree that WE THE PEOPLE have woken but your mistaken that warthog pig newt is part of us..Do your research fellow Amerian..Dr Ron Paul is one of us and he also started the tea party ball rolling..dont take my word for it…use your brain and research for yourself..God bless
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johnokee1
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:55am
The invented palestinians need to shut up and go back to Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Jordan and Turkey and Syria and Lebanon, and Libya and Iraq and a half a dozen other locales and leave the JEWISH NATION OF ISRAEL ALONE.

The ARABS WERE THE FIRST OCCUPY MOVEMENT! THEY ARE THE OCCUPIERS! NOT ISRAEL! The ARABS and the whole brood are of SATAN THEIR FAITH IS SATANIC.. It is a direct afront to God and He will not be slack as we consider slackness, but is patient and will topple their little delusional religion and false faith. ALLAH AKBAR NO MORE…
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- Hickory
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:21pm
  They are the original OWS.
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- momrules
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:37pm
  Those countries that you mentioned can not stand the Palastinians. They think of them as scrubs and only use them for ammunition against Israel.
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ShyMan
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:55am
Of course it’s racist. It’s true. That’s how the game works.

Newt apology in 3-2-1…
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- CatB
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:10pm
  He better not .. if so then we can put a fork in Newt … like the other candidates Obama and the MSM have destroyed.
  
  People do know that is how Obama got to be a Senator .. by getting others disqualified to run .. right.
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Jeff Bassett
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:55am
I guess that means the “Occupiers” are not an invented people either, maybe that’s why they get so much support from the left…
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CatB
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:54am
What is “racist”? … since when is Palestinian a “race”.
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Jas0n
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:53am
Get ready for a new world order beeotch!
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tweet
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:52am
The truth hurts.
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Forced_Union_Worker
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:50am
Since when is speaking the truth considered to be racist and hateful?
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- AB5r
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:59am
  This is new to you? No one can speak the truth about Islam or Muhammad, and in many cases speaking the truth about blacks or gays is also extremely problematic. Laws are even being passed that criminalize speaking the truth about Islam, and Christian pastors have been jailed in some countries for preaching directly from the Bible regarding homosexuality.
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- CatB
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 12:11pm
  The TRUTH has no agenda .. time to take back being able to speak it!
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- THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:50pm
  Yes us rinos love the truth…except when Dr Ron Paul speaks it. WE ARE NOT HYPOCRITES we are just selective about what truth we like, just like the liberals are selective about what parts of the constitution they like…
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rt elms
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:50am
Funny though, I did not see any fact based retorts to Newt’s statement, just the usual accusations of raaaaaacisim!
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- johnokee1
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:56am
  The invented palestinians need to shut up and go back to Saudi Arabia and Egypt and Jordan and Turkey and Syria and Lebanon, and Libya and Iraq and a half a dozen other locales and leave the JEWISH NATION OF ISRAEL ALONE.
  
  The ARABS WERE THE FIRST OCCUPY MOVEMENT! THEY ARE THE OCCUPIERS! NOT ISRAEL! The ARABS and the whole brood are of SATAN THEIR FAITH IS SATANIC AND THEIR PROPHET AND THEIR BOOK.. It is a direct afront to God and He will not be slack as we consider slackness, but is patient and will topple their little delusional religion and false faith. ALLAH AKBAR NO MORE…
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- wodiej
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:17pm
  I agree.
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csbaby
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:49am
Newt’s correct.
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The10thAmendment
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:49am
Liars always hate getting called liars. The fact is, there is NO Palestinian people. They are arabs who were Roman slaves and parasites.
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- drattastic
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:54am
  Newt has openly picked the right side and where does obama stand ? I think we all know.
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- JohnGalt
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 3:40pm
  Finally someone who knows, Palestine was a provence of the Roman Empire, it incorporated Israel, in 70 AD the Roman’s intentionally moved Arabic people from surrounding areas into Israel to prevent an Israeli revolt. The sad truth is there was never a country or people of Palestine. Just misplaced Arabian people who should never have been moved by the Roman’s, dang them, it’s all there fault!
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ShyMan
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:49am
They don’t have a “p” sound in their language.
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- From Virginia
  Posted on December 10, 2011 at 2:08pm
  LOLOL! YES!!! I forgot about that! They called themselves BALestinians and there can never be any BEACE with them!
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- A Conservatarian
  Posted on December 11, 2011 at 3:19am
  Virginia, think BAALestinians instead. Etymology rules.
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Impenitent
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:48am
check the history books… of course the victor writes the history books…
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ICANHANDLETHETRUTH
Posted on December 10, 2011 at 11:46am
Here we go !!!!!
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