Passengers’ Prayers Trigger Cockpit Lockdown on LA Flight
- Posted on March 14, 2011 at 7:59am by
Jonathon M. Seidl
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LOS ANGELES (The Blaze/AP) — Pilots on an Alaska Airlines flight from Mexico City to Los Angeles locked down the cockpit and alerted authorities Sunday when a flight crew grew alarmed at the behavior of three men who turned out to be conducting an elaborate orthodox Jewish prayer ritual, officials said.
The men, all Mexican nationals, began the ritual that involves tying leather straps and small wooden boxes to the body, and the crew of Flight 241 alerted the cockpit, airline spokeswoman Bobbie Egan said.
“Shortly after takeoff, a flight attendant saw what she believed was unusual behavior from three passengers on board,” Egan said in a statement. “The three passengers were praying aloud in Hebrew and were wearing what appeared to be leather straps on their foreheads and arms.”
The cockpit was placed on a security lockdown for the rest of the flight – meaning the door couldn’t be opened even for pilots to leave briefly. Normal protocol calls for the cockpit to be locked, but on longer flights the pilots will leave and return from the flight deck.
FBI and customs agents along with police and a full assignment of fire trucks met the plane at the gate at Los Angeles International Airport, and the men were escorted off.
After questioning from the FBI, the men were released without being arrested. They continued in their travel which took them overseas, FBI spokeswoman Laura Eimiller told City News Service. Eimiller said she could release no further information because the men were not charged with anything.
Egan said airline officials later learned from law enforcement the men were performing the ritual known as tefillin.
A similar incident occurred in New Zealand back in December.
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Comments (128)
Akira Gomi
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:48amCome on another knee jerk reaction, most people who pay attention find it is the Muslims that hi-jack, blow up and kill themselves, duh… They are buns up kneeling repeative praying on there rugs, when it comes to thier death, moments before they chant allah akbar. The Jewish prayer ritual is nothing of the sort, When have we heard of Jewish prayer before a terrorist attack? We are suppouse to be politically correct except when it comes to the Jew an Christains. A muslim could throw down a pray rug in the middle of the isle and start thier prayer and everybody would just smile and nod their head with approval, until the slice thier throats open in the name of God. We got bad mojo comin, and nobody is prepared…
Report Post »stufried
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:47amHere is a link to a photo of an Orthodox Jewish man wearing tiffilin (the leather boxes referred to in the article):
http://www.crownheights.info/media/4/20100214-teictel-tefillin.jpg
I thought letting people look at a representative photo (from a Hassidic Jewish website) might help frame the discussion.
Stu
Report Post »EqualJustice
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:29amThanks, and why do they do this? Did it have to be done on the airplane? Just curious. Also, I think not knowing, as many of us obvioulsy do NOT, it is still better to be safe than sorry. It should apply to Muslims, as well. NOT knowing the difference between those who would do harm from those who wold not…..HOW DO WE KNOW?
Report Post »calijohn
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:14pmas has been stated several times here, this ritual is to be performed daily from sunrise to 3 hours after.
Report Post »the flight left at 6:00 am and sunrise in mexico city was at 6:44am.
Christabel
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:41amWow, I can’t believe how many people are standing up for these bozos.
Report Post »Whatever, none of you can tell me that you would be sitting on that airplane, marveling at that the “oh so beautiful jewish ritual” in the most inappropriate place in the world.
I would have done exactly what that flight attendant did. Bravo to her. They’re trained to do exactly that. By the way, you can be “educated” in every religious ritual in the world, it’s not going to do you any good protecting passengers from threats. If it insults someone’s religious views for doing something stupid on a plane, so be it. I’ll work it out later standing in front of the pearly gates with an “I’m with stupid” t-shirt on.
Khedewia
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:28amPeople should just use some common sense! I don’t care what your religion is, you can pray, but try to keep it quiet and don’t make a spectacle of yourself. People should know that elaborate prayers are going to make other passengers nervous. God knows what you are thinking. You don’t have to pray out loud in order for God to hear!
Report Post »sister1_rm
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:06amYou know what. This looks like a problem of poor timing on the part of the worshipers and ignorance on the part of the flight staff. Not all times are appropriate for public prayer, and the attendant could have should have shown a little more back bone and asked questions in person before running off like a little rabbit and putting everyone on high alert. More than anything I think every passenger deserves an apology, especially the gentlemen at worship.
Report Post »lel2007
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:01amSounds like our pious Mexican Jewish brothers are a tad short on common sense.
Report Post »HemiOwner
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:00amIf they were muslims doing that I would have handed them parachutes.
Report Post »rtk
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:59amThis makes the case for teaching comparative religion in high school. How can anyone understand the world around them if they don’t understand one of the major influences on how people act and react?
Report Post »dpselfe
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:53amJews don’t fly planes into buildings in the name of Allah………neither do Christians…….neither do Budhists…………
…….MUSLIMS DO
END OF STORY!
Report Post »GOD BLESS AMERICA NOW
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:52amIt’s the SOCIALIST MUSLIM in the white house,AG, and lib dems that sanction these nuts on our planes…..obama and his national security bimbo were aware of the nut who killed our service men at ft hood….he was actually a member of their national security team……and we still allow those idoits to run our country???…maybe we’re the NUTS…..this needs to come to an end…before we become what they are busy planning…..A COMMIE, MUSLIM< SOCIALIST country….I think they have misjudged the loyal AMERICANS …we have always fought the evil……and WON !!!!!! GOD BLESS AMERICA
Report Post »thankyouvets
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:19amtrue that
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:28amWait, this has what to do with the story?
Report Post »dms2262
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:31amSo now flight attendants can’t tell the difference between Jews and Muslims. I have never traveled abroad and yet I am familiar with this Hebrew prayer ritual, and I am not Jewish!!
If our general public was at all educated (I blame the public school system) then we could all better deal with what is happening.
Report Post »Cobra Blue
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:56amDMS2262
In the face of all that is happening in this country, you dismiss this event much to easy. . ….That’s OK…explaining it away doesn’t help the situation. Monday morning quarterbacking is not the way to go. Praying out loud on an aircraft would raise anyone’s attention in lieu of all that has happened with the terrorists attacks in this country. Add to that tying boxes to your body.
Report Post »BacktotheFounders
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:44amdms2262,
Do you mean to say that you think that the public schools should teach the rituals of all of the world’s religions? How utterly ridiculous. Do you know how many there are?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions
Report Post »Warphead
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:29amI don’t care what your religion is, don’t do what others would consider weird sh*t on an airplane. These morons weren’t ignorant about what they were doing; they were seeking attention and an opportunity to cry religious persecution. For disrupting the flight they should be fined and forbidden to fly again. Unless the plane has lost both engines and won’t make the airport, these idiots need to wait until they land and exit the airplane before starting their “prayers”. I wonder how they would feel if a bunch of muslims starting doing, what they consider weird sh*t, on the same airplane they are on? My guess is that they wouldn’t think too kindly of it. I really don’t like stupid people.
Report Post »NSDQ
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:44amVery true tefillin is a morning prayer which could have been done prior or they could have adjusted their flight times accordingly. By contrast you dont see observant NON terrorists muslims laying down their prayer mats and praying in the aisles during flights. Its not a remotely reasonable idea to believe that in a country where orthodox jews are less than 1% of the population, everyone should be intimately familiar with their religious rituals. Also had the airline done nothing and something did happen, well then everyone would be pissed as well so damn if they do or dont.
Report Post »init4thelongrun
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:26amNormal people do not behave this way period.
Report Post »DesertRose1960
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:15amUm, yes, they do if they are Orthodox Jews. The small boxes and leather straps are called tefilin or philacteries in English. If you remember your Bible, you would know that the Pharisees wore very large ones for show. The prayers are mandated by the Torah and done at certain times of the day. You do remember the First Amendment, don’t you? “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….” It’s a beautiful ritual.
Report Post »Christabel
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:24amare you kidding desertrose? You think that is appropriate for a flight? I’m sure God will forgive them for not doing something stupid on an airplane.
Report Post »Goldenyears22
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:46amPutting the boxes on is an ancient tradition of the Jewis people. They carry in it scriptures that reind them they belong to God and how to live. Most Jewish people do not attach to them these boxes anymore, but if you know the Jewish traditions, you would know that it is perfectly harmless and their ancient way of showing their devotion to God. Perfectly harmless and talk about a lack of tolerlance. Why didn’t someone jus ask them what they were doing. Ignorance is sometimes dangerous. There is a lot of difference between devout Jews and Muslims.
Report Post »Islesfordian
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:05pmCalling a religious practice stupid just because it is strange to you is what is stupid.
The airline showed complete ignorance over something that should be easily understood. the fact that peoiple praying frraked them out shows that they considered public prayer a significant sign of possible radicalism. Thus they hsould have educated themselves to identify what kinds of prayer are typical of would-be hijackers. Jews do not hijack planes.
What, are catholics who cross themselves now going to be targeted as exhibiting threatening behavior?
The irrelgious stupidity of some of the people here is astounding.
Report Post »thankyouvets
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:25amdoes mexico have a large jewish population mr levy? just askin
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:26amMexico actually does have a sizable Jewish population.
Report Post »BehindBlueEyes
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:23amI see it as a form of exhibitionism. Although this example is not sexual it still seems to me these types of people want to be watched doing nutty things. Either that or they’re terrorist testing the system. TSA solution – Attention: Leather straps and small wooden boxes will not be allowed on bodies or in any carry on items.
Report Post »TrueGrit
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:05amHow about banning Crosses, which can be sharpened and use to puncture your throat,
or maybe take out an eye.
Stupid people.
The TSA should post information regarding different religioous articles and
procedures to educate the already moronic masses.
Next, a group from the Westboro Church will hold a pray meeting on board…
holding up a Bible and singing to the Lord.
The Orthodox Jews pray early in the morning, everyday, with this procedure.
It’s not quite like they throw out a prayer rug and kneel in the aisle of the plane.
Educate yourselves.
Report Post »Get a grip folks.
Wolverine
blackcatrun
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:23amGot our attention didnt it? Which was why they took time to make it aboard the plane not before not after. I dont think it sits well for others on the plane who wonder is this my “lets roll” moment.
Report Post »Stupid stunt.
hauschild
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:21amIgnorance is bliss.
Report Post »Geowchap
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:20amLast time I flew out of Mexico, I was also praying pretty seriously.
Report Post »sethlevy
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:18amOh, and what I think is interesting is not a single apology on behalf of the FBI or the airline. Had this been a set of Muslims doing something similar, there would have been a massive public apology with some sort of settlement attached while CAIR organizes a boycott against the airline.
Report Post »Mainer forever
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:32amHow true!!! The MSM would be all over this one.
Report Post »Mainer forever
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:33amIn fact Rep Ellison would be crying.
Report Post »just happy
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:14amdo we know there was NO apology. Not just picking on you, but it is an example of how these things get overplayed and very reactionary— we are not personally involved in this incident but we spout opinionated conclusions “no apology.. by FBI or airline” without having but a MINISCULE knowledge of the incident. Did you ask the praying people if they got an apology and if they didn’t did you ask them if that was a big deal to them. If the party involved doesn’t have a problem with how they were treated , shouldn’t the rest of us, in most cases just shut up.
Report Post »sethlevy
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:24pmJustHappy, please let me clarify. I mean a public apology. And I believe one is necessary because now that this is public, every time a Jew wants to wrap teffilin on an airplane he will have to consider whether its worth being detained, something our country should reject.
Report Post »sethlevy
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:16amThis happened last year as well. http://articles.nydailynews.com/2010-01-21/news/17943754_1_flight-attendant-plane-laguardia-airport
Report Post »It is not uncommon to see this on early morning flights to/from NYC and other Jewish hot spots, and if tefillin makes you uncomfortable, don’t ever fly to or from Israel where you are in the air during the morning hours. Grandmaof5, you asked why on earth anyone would do it… it is Jewish law to perform this ritual unless it endangers your life to do so and there is no reason it should on an airplane. People need to chill out and flight attendants need to be more aware of who their customers are.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:26amClearly then you’re perfectly peachy with Muslims who do the same kind of open ritualistic prayer on an airplane. Right?
Report Post »sethlevy
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:22pmAbsolutely, without question. I fly often and its not uncommon to see Muslims praying on a flight with prayer beads.
Report Post »jedi.kep
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:14amPeople need to ask the questions and learn the difference between a muslim and a jew. How insulting for the jew to be thought a muslim terrorist! LOL.
Report Post »mrsmileyface
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:13amAww man! Those Othodox Jews they sure look scarry with their Black hats and black coats and pants. With the Zit Zit showing on the outside. I almost pissed myself when I was watching Yentl I was so scarred. HEY BLAZE! THIS IS SARCASM. If you couldnt tell in the past.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:06amI’ve been in an airport waiting area when a middleeastern man was doing “strange” things right out there in public. I did go to the people in charge and ask them if they had noticed him. How could they not? Anyway it was most disquieting to me as someone of another faith and unfamiliar with their practices.
I was not happy to see the man board my flight. Gratefully he was Jewish and NOT a jihadist nut job.
Might be a good idea for these men to do all their praying with all the show involved BEFORE they come to airports or board planes. Just an idea.
Report Post »grandmaof5
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:02amI heard this on the news last night. Why on earth would you do something like that on a plane in these days and times, unless you just wanted to be a pain in the backside. There was plenty of time to pray before getting on the plane in some secluded place, or at home. Just plain stupid!
Report Post »Oil_Robb
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:39amI dont blame either side, Im glad the air waitresses were beeing vigilant because they could have been suicide bombers and I dont blame the three men who odds are not very experienced flyers….sounds to that all was handeled even handedly and all partys did what they felt they must do and everyone left with thier dignity intact..
Report Post »felina g
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:33amHeard the guy in the back with a bone in his nose strangled a chicken. This must stop.
Report Post »Hephzibah
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:33amExactly, Grandma! I don’t blame the crew at all. If there was stupidity here, it sure wasn’t the crew. Their job is to keep their customers safe and get them to their destination. These attention-grabbing turkeys would be banned from my airline for life.
Report Post »912828Buckeye
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:44am@ Felina G…..Pretty good. :-D
Report Post »danielsforprez
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 2:43pmBefore calling people stupid maybe you should do some research. The Old Testament commands jews to wrap “tefillin” on their arms and head. Jews believe that the Old Testament is the word of God and therefore they have an obligation to do so. As for your question as to why they couldn’t do it earlier, jews believe that they have an obligation to pray at a certain time of the day, from sunrise to 3 hrs after. That is when they put on tefillin. So actually, it wasn’t them who was being stupid, it was you who opened her mouth without doing any research. I have put on tefillin numerous times on an airplane and no one has said boo. Most airlines have some basic sensitivity training and know what it is. I do not blame the stewardess for what happened, but the airline.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:50pm@ GRANDMAOF5
Report Post »I’m with you & I don’t blame the crew .
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:00amBet if they were muslum or in muslum garb, nothing would have been done.
Report Post »MAULEMALL
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:24amHow about this… Why not keep your religions to yourself.
If you get the urge to just burst out in tounges or the spirit just mooves you to shake and dance…
Well….
Get over it..
If you feel the need to throw down a rug and kneel in a certain direction in the middle of a flight ..
Well…
Get over it…
All you Jehovas witnesses and the self rightious who want to recite scripture and feel the need to come to my door…
Don’t…
And get over it.
And by all meens..If you want to break out into a prayer for someone who you think is in trouble…
Well I am sure you will find another way to make it all about you but why don’t you actually figure out what they really need and do something that will actually benifit them..
selaromyar
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:37amThis story only shows the ignorace of the flight crew if Jewish Tradition, thinking it of being weird. Stupid is as stupid does.
t00nces2
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:41amAre you kidding me??!! Tying boxes to your bady with leather straps? They didn’t think it would be any kind of problem?
Report Post »Cobra Blue
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:46amNo worries here. These folks could have blown up the plane, but the cocklpit would be locked. Wouldn’t want the cockpit door to fly open upon impact. Keep on following the PC crap and this is what will continue to happen…only its going to get worse. Remember! This will never change so long as WE THE PEOPLE are worried about speaking up for fear of a lawsuit or jail or worse. Change will require SACRIFICE by all of us. And sacrifice is not sacrifice until it cost you and me something. Bottom line…We have yet to begin to fight back. Just look to the Founders for the perfect example of what it means to take a stand and fighting back. No comparison.
Report Post »goatkid
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:50am@ snowleopard
Report Post »I agree. Because of political correctness, a Muslim can do anything short of pulling out a knife or gun on a plane and nothing is done.
GhostOfJefferson
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:53amWhy would any sane person go through these kinds of rituals on an airplane? Forget “security” and the Gestapo-esque thing we’ve turned air travel into a moment and think simply of consideration for your fellow man, would you really go through a huge ritual on an airplane like that? WTF?
Report Post »Rational Man
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:01amIf I was on the plane, I would just be relieved that they didn’t scream,
Report Post »“LA LA LA LA LA LA….allah akbar!”
But hey, that’s just me…………
ltb
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:24amMAULEMALL
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 8:24am
How about this… Why not keep your religions to yourself.
—–
How about you keep your humanist religion to yourself and stop trying to force the doctrine of evolution down the throats of children? America is a Christian nation and we’re taking it back… GET OVER IT.
Report Post »Ken
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:28am@Snow: Worse yet, if a Christian (there I said it) prayed aloud in English, he or she would be tackled, bound up with zip ties, strip-searched, and the plane would turn around and go back to it’s origin, and a full-blown bomb squad would meet the plane on the “tarmac,” NOT the gate!
Report Post »TheVOR
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:52am@SELAROMYAR and others thinking the same. I went to a university with a large Jewish population, had a Jewish roommate, lived and worked in Miami Beach, FL and NEVER saw or heard of this prayer ritual. Until, it occurred on a flight last year. It is NOT the flight crew’s responsibility to know every religious ritual. It IS their job to safely conduct a flight from point A to point B, while insuring the safety, and security of their passengers. And, should anything appear to, or actually jeopardize those priorities, the crew should and must take appropriate precautions and actions. WAKE UP America, those who want to do us harm are patient and vigilant. And, will use any means possible to “PING” the system. Perhaps the traveling public should be aware of what makes flight crews and fellow travelers suspicious and uncomfortable, and brief the crew of their intentions (since as I am sure you know, while performing this prayer ritual they are not supposed to speak to others). Better yet, I am sure God would hear and answer their prayers if they were said on the ground, before or after the flight. Let’s all be a part of the solution, and not part of the problem.
Report Post »stifroc
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:04am@MAULEMALL
you said:
“And by all meens..If you want to break out into a prayer for someone…”
Well by all MEENS you appear to be the product of public education. So when you feel the need to spray your ignorance everywhere, just sit down and shut up and GET OVER IT. Moron.
Report Post »Mee the People
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:20amthis is why some of them are still called waitress
Report Post »they must have thought the jews were muslims
getting ready to start another 9-11
TXPilot
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:20amNo worries folks, Jews don’t tend to hijack aircraft or go around setting off explosive devices. Look no farther than your nearest Mosque, if you want to find those sorts of people.
Report Post »Mee the People
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:24ami landed in seattle last summer and the cleaning crew was all women in burkas
Report Post »and no one called tsa like they did on the jews
ozchambers
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 10:51amSomeone needs to let these pilots know that there is no such thing as a jewhad.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:08amLots of dumb responses to this one!
As far as the idea that “nothing would be done” if these guys were Muslims, it seems pretty obvious from the story that these guys alarmed the flight attendant because she thought they might be Muslims, so that’s a dumb comment.
Cobra Blue,
Where you are seeing “PC Crap” in this story is beyond me. Please try to think before giving such bizarre knee-jerk responses (like the particularly mindless “we the people” bluster you throw in there).
As far as Jews checking their religion at the door, would you ask the same of a Christian? I can only imagine the kind of responses that would arise on these boards if a Christian was asked not to pray on a flight. The “straps” and “boxes” referred to here are called Tefillin–this is an extremely common ritual observance of Torah’s commandment to bind the lay to your arm and to your head (the boxes contain scroll with verses of the torah). Its the same spirit with which Jews traditionally put Mezuzahs on their doorposts.
Ken, your point is equally if not more dumb. Why is it so often a tactic on these boards that when a non-Christian religion is targetting, inevitably some goofball has to create a made-up situation where it was actually a Chrstian was victimized, and then get mad about it. Doesn’t this seem particularly silly to you? Why don’t you stick to what actually happened, rather than so transparently making up a fantasy world where you can play the victim? Since when did the right become the specialists in victimhood? Boo-hoo.
Thevor, sorry that your expertise in Jewish culture (because you know more than one Jew!) seems to fail you here. Feel free to read up.
One cannot necessarily blame the flight attendant for being cautious, but it would be equally unjust to insist that orthodox Jews must not pray on airplanes.
I think we are all lucky that these were probably Orthodox Jews and not Reform Jews. As Beck says, those Reform Jews are just as bad as Muslim Extremists!
Report Post »mrlogan3
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:21am@Snowleopard People would have been twice as scared if they were muslim. Everyone on this site says the same thing as you and you’re all wrong.
Report Post »drbage
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:24amBetcha the left wing MSM and blogosphere would have been lit up and condemnation of religious profiling would have been screamed by Sgt Schultz and Madcow if they had been Muslim. The lawyers led by the ACLU would have met the plane and started filing the lawsuits. Since the men were Jewish, there is a profound silence….
Report Post »abc
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 11:46amWrong. They would have done more. But Maule is right. Keep your religion to yourself. If you are scaring or distracting other passengers, then you are likely being too loud. And whether you are reciting the Lord’s prayer or trying to sell porno magazines, the distractions are not welcomed to the crew or your fellow passengers. The problem with religious people is that they do not entertain the possibility that there is no God and their words are no different than jibberish. If they could at least admit that possibility, then perhaps they‘d be less insistent about ramming it in other people’s faces like this. Most religious people are kind and courteous, but, like in most groups, that 1% gives the rest a really bad name. They ought to be called out on it.
Report Post »Old Truckers
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:25pmMAULEMALL,
Report Post »I know a lot of Jehovah’s Witnesses and I think you are having a real problem in understanding their motives in coming to your door. I know they mean you no harm, but as explained to me, they only want to do what Jesus told them to do.
Bearfoot
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:47pmThe people praying on that plane were doing it as a public display, for whatever reason they felt it necessary.
Jesus told us in his Sermon on the Mount;
Matthew 6:5 “Also, when YOU pray, YOU must not be as the hypocrites; because they like to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the broad ways to be visible to men. Truly I say to YOU, They are having their reward in full. 6 You, however, when you pray, go into your private room and, after shutting your door, pray to your Father who is in secret; then your Father who looks on in secret will repay you. 7 But when praying, do not say the same things over and over again, just as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words. 8 So, do not make yourselves like them, for God YOUR Father knows what things YOU are needing before ever YOU ask him.
Report Post »restorehope
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:47pmPilots did the right thing. Better to be safe than sorry when dealing with any type of religious craziness. Believers that publicly flaunt their religion and in such an attention-grabbing way get what they deserve if the authorities nab them. How arrogant of them to infringe on the privacy of the other passengers.
Report Post »Marcobob69
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 12:50pmCouldn’t they have taken care of this “rite” before the plane took-off?? I wasn’t there, but it sounds like it was the timing of this and not the fact that they did it (the ritual) that caused the alarm with the flight crew. Like I said, I wasn’t there, so it’s just speculation on my part.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 1:03pmIf American is a “Christian” nation and you all plan on taking it over, when are you planning on putting us Atheist, Agnostics and others into concentration camps, killed or deported? Just wanna know when you plan on doing this to make sure I have enough ammo and rename my AR15 from Zombie Killer into Tyrant Killer.
Report Post »Tertius G Himmelreich
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 1:40pm@MAULEMALL: Their religion is what gives them hope. Though it may not be what gives you hope, you do have something that does, I’m sure. They have respect for their god/hods. These Jewish men weren’t doing something that just “came over them”, they were performing a ritual, which is typically something they feel is ordained by God for them to perform at a specific time. Something they feel is necessary for they’re salvation, perhaps? Religious ceremonies & rites might seem spooky to those of a different faith or of no faith, but the reality is thy are typically amazing to watch when you consider their antiquity, & their origin. When somebody breaks out in tongues, I consider how free they feel. When a Muslim lays down his rug, I consider his devotion. When a person prays over me, though I consider myself saved, I’m also honored; they are petitioning the most powerful source they can think of, they’re considering me worthy enough to be mentioned to the most high being, & because they can’t do anything else for me, or feel helpless to do anything else, they are doing the greatest thing they can consider. When Jehovah’s witness come to my house, I thank them for considering me worthy of salvation, they care enough to want to save me from the worst punishment of eternal flames. Why would you belittle their efforts?
http://tghimmelreich.wordpress.com/
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 1:46pm@ PPMAN………….Wow I think I might be in the twilight zone because I think we agree on some things here. I totally agree these men had a right to express their faith even though they were not Americans, but Mexican nationals. I believe our founders would have classified the right to express one’s faith publicly as inalienable right and was not bestowed by men (even though it is in the B of R). I also agree that had these been Muslim men, which, I am assuming the flight crew (unless familiar with Jewish customs and faith) figured they could be Muslim since they were Mexican Nationals and probably had a darker skin tone praying in an audible foreign language, would have been treated in the same way. Therefore, the very reason they acted was probably due to their weariness that these men were Muslim and could posibbly pose a threat given historical events. I also agree we must stick to the point of this story. We do ourselves no favors by pointing to other grievances (even if legitimate). We must apply consistent standards to all of faith. If I want the right to pray on board a plane if I am fearful then so should these men have that freedom. I also agree with you that the flight attendant really did nothing that any one of us would not want her to do if her motive was simply to ensure people’s safety. She did not know what these men were doing and if they were a threat or not. So precaution would mean for her to act on the side of safety until the situation could be better learned. Wow we did find common ground good insight and I agree with your thoughts on the situation. Obviously, matters of faith strike deep chords in people even if they are not religious.
ABC………….Your position would assert that your morality or insight is superior and therefore trumps a person of faiths right to express their freedom of religion in the manner appropriate for their faith as long as it does not incite violence or harm toward others. We may not like that expression, but your position is every bit as imposed on another group. Why should your position be any more legitimate than theirs? So I disagree with your argument of just being quiet.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 2:25pmMore corrections for some of you “experts.”
The article gives no indication that these men were disturbing anyone during their ritual. In fact, if you have ever seen the binding of tefellin done, you would know that it is a very quiet process, and personal prayers are often conducted in a low murmur. The idea that this was done with the intention of a public display is entirely ignorant–clearly you know nothing of Orthodox Jews, who tend to keep largely to themselves and do not put on shows for the goyim. They do not go door to door like the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Just another example of Blazers having no idea at all about what they are talking about.
WatchtheOtherHand,
Report Post »You agree with me, but you do so rather sneakily. You seem to suggest that the made-up Christian victimization scenarios that people here are using to play the victim are a legitimate grievance. Certainly if they do happen they are legitimate, but these are made-up!
watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 2:45pm@ PPMAN………….I knew it was too good to be true !!! I was simply making a statement that even if it were true it would still not be a justification. I have absolutely no examples I was thinking of or could give that it has happened. Nothing sneaky at all about my intentions.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 3:23pmHa. Well, I had to find SOMETHING to fight about.
Report Post »watchtheotherhand
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 3:29pmWe wouldn’t want to break tradition would we? ha ha
Report Post »stifroc
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 6:21pm@ AMERICAN SOLDIER (Separated)
You posted
— If American is a “Christian” nation and you all plan on taking it over, when are you planning on putting us Atheist, Agnostics and others into concentration camps, killed or deported? —
Really?
Yup, cuz that’s exactly what Jesus tells us to do with Non-believers, and that is exactly what Lutheran, Presbyterian, Catholic, Mennonite, and Evangelical preachers and pastors are telling their congregations right? We need to take over, and anybody who denies our religion deserves to die! Yup sure sounds like American Christianity to me… OH WAIT! That sounds more like another major religion out there doesn’t it?!?!?!
Dude… you have WAY more to fear if Habib takes over than if Joe takes over. Atheist says to Christian “There is not God and I spit on your Jesus” the Christian will say “Hey pal, that’s fine, but no reason to spit in my face about it!“ Atheist says to a Muslim ”There is no Allah and I spit on your Muhammad” you will get a much more hostile and perhaps fatal response.
Report Post »uzi4u2
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 7:56pmI dunno…how many terrorist pray in hebrew???
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on March 14, 2011 at 9:33pmMexican Nationals of course
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