Faith

Pastor Joel Osteen: Romney & Obama Are Christians & I See Mormons as ‘Brothers In Christ’

Joel Osteen Says Romney and Obama Are Christians During CNN InterviewOn Tuesday, Pastor Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, spoke out about Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith. Unlike a small number of evangelical preachers who have sought to place a divisive wedge between Romney’s beliefs and those of traditional evangelicals, Osteen reiterated a position he has advanced before — that the top GOP contender is, in fact, a Christian.

The litmus test, according to Osteen, is the belief that Jesus Christ is the son of God — a central tenet of the Christian faith and one that Romney has openly embraced. Osteen made his comments about the presidential candidate during an interview on CNN’s “The Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer.”

“When I hear Mitt Romney say that he believes that Jesus is the Son of God — that he’s the Christ, raised from the dead, that he’s his Savior — that’s good enough for me,” the pastor proclaimed, going on to say that he wants to be “inclusive” and welcoming to those who claim they accept Christ.

Joel Osteen Says Romney and Obama Are Christians During CNN Interview

While Osteen did differentiate between Mormonism and “traditional Christianity,” he maintains that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints adherents do, indeed, fall into the Christian realm. Despite some differences, the pastor claims that he sees Mormons “as brothers in Christ.”

But Romney‘s faith wasn’t the only thing Osteen commented on. When it comes to President Barack Obama, who has endlessly faced questions surrounding his beliefs, the mega-church pastor said that he takes the president at his word that he is a Christian.

“I believe with all my heart that he’s a Christian, as he says he is,” Osteen maintained. “[Obama] says he is [a Christian]. Again, I wouldn’t try to push people away. That‘s just the opposite of what we’re supposed to do…my personality is, I give people the benefit of the doubt.”

Watch these comments during his interview with Blitzer, below:

(H/T: CNN)

Comments (874)

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  • LOJ
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:52am

    Osteen is another preacher preaching False Doctrine!

    Report Post »  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:15am

      Joel Olsteen..“Show Me da Money” Joel seems to have gotten his “seminary training from the Dale Carnegie and Tony Robbins ministry..

      Report Post »  
    • pastorrick
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:26am

      As a forner mormon I can’t tell you all how this man angers me! He as no Biblical training and yet people turn to him as if he knows something. I love mormon folks but they have followed a series of false prophets who have created their own false religion that is filled with EASILY PROVEN false teachings! Any freshman in Bible College should know how to make a case against mormonism! Simply begin with the geological findings of the Smithsonian that not one city mentioned in the book of mormon has ever been found in South America where is supposedly took place….NOT ONE! Yet almost all mentioned in th eBible have been found and many still exist today: Jerusalem, Jerico, Bethlehem, Denascus (Seria), Neniva (Iraq) to name just a few! Mr Osteen PLEASE either get a Biblical education or just stop talking, you are hurting the cause for Christ!

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    • The_Jerk
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:35am

      Joel Osteen is living proof of just how many foolish, ignorant, and stupid people there are in this world. He is a version of the plastic Jesus.

      Report Post »  
    • fightinglee
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:37am

      hey pastorick, in case you didnt know, the indians didnt have a written language. Maybe you were a mormon, maybe not, but perhaps you could learn a little history. Mormons believe that society of the lamanites degraded greatly at the end of the BOM. Written language was slowly lost and most tribes became nomadic. So why would you expect to find the same names of cities from the BOM over a few thousand years with a society that could no longer write buddy.

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:42am

      Oh brother. Willful ignorance or knows he’s lying. BO and Romney are as much Christians as atheists. You can consider Mormons brothers in Christ all you want, but Christ doesn’t consider them saved. Which is all that counts.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • slr4528
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:46am

      People need to wake up and see that religion in this country is under attack. It is best that people of all religious faiths stick together to fight for our religious freedoms verses attacking another person’s faith.

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:50am

      @pastorrick
      Hmmm, thats funny, because as a Mormon I have had countless religious conversations and debates and yet no one has been able to “easily” prove my faith wrong. In fact, it is usually the other way around. If it is so easy to disprove, why is the LDS faith one of the fastest growing faiths, survived 192 years of constant persecution and attacks, and yet has never been proven wrong? Maybe my definition of easy is different than yours. You claim to be a former Mormon so you should understand why we believe the things we believe if that is true. We seek to follow Christ as all Christians do. We seek to obey and honor Him in word and in deed. So why are there so many that go out of their way and constantly attack us? From what I have seen and experienced, there is nothing Christlike about it. I served a mission in Missouri and while there, I was threatened, someone tried to run us over, things were thrown on us, we were constantly berated and called every name you could think of. I would not change that time for the world but why is it that “christians” seem to have so much hate for us?

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:54am

      @black9897
      And how do you know that Christ does not consider Mormons saved? Do you have weekly tea times with Him and discuss eternal matters over crumpets? I do enjoy how manypeople talk for Christ yet know nothing of His will.

      Report Post »  
    • HADEN0UGH
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:56am

      Well Islam has been around for along time, too. And to a Muslim, you can’t prove their religion is wrong to them either.

      Report Post » HADEN0UGH  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:57am

      @pastor rick
      So let me get this straight, your idea of easily disproving my religion is to show that there is a lack of geological evidence? Wow. The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I’ve used that phrase to defend the Bible from atheists using your same argument. Just because something hasn‘t been found yet doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. You obviously don’t see how telling your statement is. So, if there was a lack of physical evidence for the Bible, would you still believe it? Is your belief in the Bible only from physical evidence? I believe the words of prophets because the Holy Spirit of God witnesses it to me, not because some geologist says that a man named Jesus once lived. If you want to discuss interpretations of the scripture that’s fine. Geez, what do they teach in “Bible college”.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:14am

      Yo NASADO:

      You state Morman churches fast growth … ever see weeds grow (sorry for the anology), but that point means nothing.

      Some people refuse to see their own hand in front of their own face.

      Concerning the hate of “christians” …what makes you think THEY are?

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:16am

      LOJ
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:52am
      Osteen is another preacher preaching False Doctrine!
      _____________________
      Translation from Beckerhead to English: Osteen does not validate the racist views of the Tea Baggers.

       
    • encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:20am

      @Nasado

      The Book of Mormons has zero historical facts contained within it. Dates, places and historical figures in the old testment and new testment are backed up by sources outside of the bible, by records of other peoples by historical finds. The Book of Mormons is nothing more than the tall tale of somebody who wanted say God approves of his sleeping around.

      Report Post »  
    • wfw4
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:22am

      ASHESTOASHES why so negative? what does the mormon church teach that is so bad? you honestly dont know anything about our church.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:30am

      Yo NASADO:

      I can “easily” prove you’re faith “wrong”. That is not the problem.
      The problem is you will not accept it with ease.

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:47am

      Lol hey look evangelicals, encinom the liberal troll has teamed up with you. Awesome

      Report Post »  
    • dimbulbz
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:53am

      Hey Pastor Rick, Whats the matter and why are you angry? Didnt the Mormon church pay you enough when you were a member? Now how much are you now making off your former faith? how many books? how many lecture tours? There is a source for your anger – you probably know where it comes from, but you cant help it can you? There is something suspicious about a man who will leave a church, but cannot leave it alone.

      Report Post » dimbulbz  
    • 5hands
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:02am

      This is exactly how many of the clergy and good people of Germany responded to Hitler and his “hope and change”. Christians are being isolated and divided! Fight back vote against Obama!

      Report Post »  
    • georgette
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:08am

      Politics and Religion put Jesus on the cross………they’re still wearing long fringe and spending too much time measuring them and collecting money …………rather than doing anything meaningful……….imagine that.

      Report Post »  
    • momprayn
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:14am

      So what else is new? He has always said this. It’s the “cowards” way “out” – gain more people/money/prestige for his very ‘tolerant, non-judgemental” church. He also has said he doesn’t speak about “sin”..that would get people upset you know. What he refuses to “get” is that you are not being “judgemental”, you are simply going by actions, words and what the Bible says – to make the “call” that a person is not living as Christ instructed. People like to say you are simply b/c you state what the Bible says.
      We’re also instructed to “rebuke” when we see this – in love of course – in hopes of saving his soul.

      Re Mormons – sigh…..problem is many….they do not believe Jesus is a part of the “Godhead” – He is another created spirit, brother to Lucifer I believe. This is all easily found out. Book of Mormon largely contradictory to the Bible.
      Re Obama – he obviously hasn’t done any research on what he has said himself — in an interview given to a reporter when a senator, he came right out and said he didn’t believe Jesus was the “only way” to go to heaven and was perturbed by other Christians who said that. Newsflash – the one basic big thing all “real” Christians believe is that Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father and heaven – to be saved, according to His own words. Therefore, Obama is not a “Christian”.

      Report Post »  
    • The Realist
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:37am

      Fake, phony, typical mega-church “pastor.” This is one of the wolves in sheep’s clothing the Bible warns of. Osteen is full of nothing but feel-goodism that seeks to include everyone and risk offending NO ONE at the expense of the TRUTH, and thereby damning countless weak-minded thousands to an eternity separated from God. It’s not “ALL GOOD” with God folks, contrary to what people like this deceiver and those like him would have you believe. People would be EXTREMELY WISE to pay NO ATTENTION to this modern-day Baker/Swaggert.

      Report Post » The Realist  
    • FleeWacoWhileYouCan
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:39am

      @joey8
      Don’t Mormons place a lot of importance on their leaders and claim them to be prophets? If so, I guess that absence of evidence you got on pastorrick for, would also apply to some of the claims of former Mormon prophets: Joseph Smith claimed tall men dressed as quakers live on the moon; Brigham Young said men live on the sun; Joseph Smith said Jesus would return by 1891; and Brigham Young said the Civil War would not free the slaves.

       
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:42am

      Yo 5hands:

      You are in part correct … what is taking place in the world is an isolation (a herding) a seperating out of the true believers. It is taking place piece by piece, bit by bit, one step at a time, slowly but relentless in it’s purpose until one day all the intolerant solo scriptura, Jesus is the only way people are seperated out and alone and they will be called evil and the herder will be called good.

      Yo Georgette:

      Jesus put Himself on the cross. He USED the evilness of men like I use a hammer. The hammer in my hands does whatever I TELL IT TO DO.

      Report Post »  
    • P8riot
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:49am

      As most of you know, I’m a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and I can tell you this – - – - –

      we are ALL children of God – we are all literally spiritual brothers and sisters! Lets start acting like it! I have four kids (7,5,2,and 8 months old)… and it makes me so sad when I see them quarrel. I’m sure that our Father in Heaven feels the same way.

      How about this – we can each state our OWN beliefs and why we believe such – RATHER THAN telling others what THEY believe and why its wrong?????

      I think that will make this conversation go MUCH smoother and will keep the adversary out of these conversations.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:54am

      @fleewaco
      “Don’t Mormons place a lot of importance on their leaders and claim them to be prophets?”
      Depends on which leaders you are talking about. We regard the president of the church, his counselors, and the apostles as “prophets, seers, and revelators”. Nobody ever said that prophets were perfect infallible men, there was only one perfect person on this planet. Prophets were allowed to have their own opinions on things that aren’t regarded as official doctrine of the church. If you are going to hold modern day prophets to that standard, be sure to hold the prophets of old to that same standard. We don’t have every written opinion of the old prophets. Some of your claims are dishonest though and need to be cleared up. http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Alleged_false_prophecies and http://en.fairmormon.org/Brigham_Young/Teachings/Moon_and_sun_are_inhabited

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:00pm

      @encinom
      Actually, there is a great deal of evidence that supports the claims made in the Book of Mormon. Many of the stories in the Bible were not proven with evidence until the late 19th to 20th centeries. So, the while old world where people have been studying for hundreds of years and only recently they have made discoveries, and you expect that allnthat exploration to be completed in such a short time in the “new world?”I could easily give you many things that support the Book of Mormon if you would like. Now, none will “prove” it to be true just as nothing will prove the Bible to be true. It will only support what we have learned by faith and the Spirit.

      Report Post »  
    • Elfvis
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:01pm

      Joel is just as much a Pastor as the Reverends Wright, Sharpton and Jackson. Joel is leading a prosperity cult. His preaching is just as off base as a that of the social justice, and liberation theology crowd.

      Always question the teaching, if your church doesn’t preach from the bible.

      Report Post »  
    • I support God's Israel!
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:03pm

      Beware of wolves in sheep’s clothing. OBAMA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN. You shall know them by their fruits. OBAMA BELIEVES IN ABORTION, which IS anti-God and anti-Biblical. SHAME ON THIS MINISTER. I knew there was something wrong about this guy Osteen when I first watched him. It was the Holy Spirit telling me to NOTE WATCH HIM, just like the HS told me not to look directly into Obama’s face on TV – DEMONS. This is a warning Americans. TIME IS SHORT, VERY SHORT TO TAKE A STAND ON WHOM YOU WILL SERVE. There is no in-between – NONE. You are either on God‘s side or on Satan’s side. You can no longer sit on the fence.

      Report Post » I support God's Israel!  
    • ted99999
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:03pm

      For those that would like to see evidence supporting the book of mormon here is a great site. http://www.jefflindsay.com/BMEvidences.shtml It’s not a slam dunk but as we continue to learn more about Mesoamerica many of the claims of the book of mormon that where considered laughable have now been proven true of this culture.

      The arguments of those that say the book of mormon can be disproven is sadly outdated.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:08pm

      Nasado you are blinded by your madic underwear if you believe there is evidence of anything the John Smith wrote. Basically, the guy was a latter-day scientologist, wrote stories that have no basics in history and found away to get his freak on with more than just his wife.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:10pm

      Yo Joey8:
      You’re last post is exactly why followers have a problem … a prophet was a person that spoke the very words of God = thus sath the LORD … no mistakes … ONE mistake and you would have been called; rightfully so, a false prophet. This way of God’s speaking to His people ended with the old testiment with the comming of Christ. The gift of prophesy mention in the NT is not the same … but then you allow this to be so because of the very words of the “additional” teachings you follow … very DECEPTIVE. …… 1-1=0

      Report Post »  
    • Kankokage
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:10pm

      There is exceptionally strong evidence that the Book of Mormon cultures existed in the eastern US. According to anthropological timelines and the Native American’s own oral history, the Nephites (a “light-skinned people”) lived primarily above the Ohio river between the Mississippi (Sidon) and the Great Lakes, while the Lamanites lived south of the Ohio river, along the the Atlantic coast, and west of the Missouri river.

      What’s more, there’s actual archaeological evidence of these cultures.

      Report Post » Kankokage  
    • I support God's Israel!
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:14pm

      Matthew 7:15-24
      “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

      Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

      Iniquity (EVIL) could mean the following:
      LIES, HALF-TRUTHS, INJUSTICE

      Joel Osteen should be avoided at all costs.

      Report Post » I support God's Israel!  
    • liberal.inciter
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:18pm

      maybe when they are received in Hell they will realize they really were Christians and should have acknowledged that fact when they had the chance.

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:29pm

      What’s false about this doctrine?
      1. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/matt/10.32?lang=eng#31 Matt 10:32 > Whosoever therefore shall aconfess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
      2. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/1-jn/4.15?lang=eng#14 1 John 4:15 > Whosoever shall aconfess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
      3. http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/2-ne/25.26?lang=eng#23 2 Nephi 25:26 (Book of Mormon) > And we atalk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we bprophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our cchildren may know to what source they may look for a dremission of their sins.
      And one for good measure: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/nt/mark/9.38-39?lang=eng#37 Mark (9:38-39) > 38 ¶And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one acasting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.

      39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a amiracle in my bname, that can lightly speak evil of me.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • candcantiques
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:32pm

      How many kids in the world could be fed if we took the money that these people spend on clothes and bought food instead? JESUS would have worn a bag if it meant hungry kids would recieve a meal. That tie that he’s wearing would probably feed 10 kids and her clothes would probably feed 100. These are people that follow Christ? NO THEY ARE NOT. Dont follow false profits. God and Jesus are in your heart. They tell you what you need to know each and every day. Just listen and you will hear the truth.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:44pm

      Kankokage
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:10pm
      There is exceptionally strong evidence that the Book of Mormon cultures existed in the eastern US. According to anthropological timelines and the Native American’s own oral history, the Nephites (a “light-skinned people”) lived primarily above the Ohio river between the Mississippi (Sidon) and the Great Lakes, while the Lamanites lived south of the Ohio river, along the the Atlantic coast, and west of the Missouri river.

      What’s more, there’s actual archaeological evidence of these cultures.
      ________________
      And where is the citation to non-mormon sources that back up the Mormon fairy tales?

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:46pm

      @NASADO Well, it’s called the Bible. No need for tea times. I can speak for what Christ said himself. It’s not that difficult to figure out. It also helps my dad is a pastor, so i’ve been around the word enough to know (not that anyone can’t figure it out) Mormons, Jehovah witnesses, all false teachings. Just look them up. They do not believe what the Bible teaches. Pretty sure in the Bible God says don’t add or take away from the Bible. Oh wait..the mormons added the book of Mormon written by their leader (who they really worship) J. Smith. I‘ve spoken with plenty of Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses to know the BS they spew. If you think other wise I‘m gonna wonder what Bible you’re reading.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:46pm

      Yo Kankokage and other mormans

      Who cares … you and others here argue mute points.
      Since no one called me out … here it is… the three simplist math equations learned in kindergarden that disprove what you say. I don’t need the argue this or that …
      0+0=0
      1+0=1
      1+1=1
      can you find the wrong answer … good; that was easy … and so you’re house comes crumbling down with simple math ….and Jesus said,“ let the children come to me”.

      There is NOTHING in arrogance ,disrespect, or hate in what I say

      Who cares what the square root of pie – 2x r divided by 56% x q is ….!!!

      Report Post »  
    • candcantiques
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:48pm

      ALL OF YOU PEOPLE PISS ME OFF. ALL OF YOU ARE WRONG. There is only ONE religion and it refuses to be labled. It is the religion where you believe in GOD AND JESUS. It is the ONLY religion. There is no other religion. I hear some of you stating that Mormons are wrong or Episcopalians are wrong or Muslims are wrong or Jews are wrong. HELLO!!! WAKE UP!!! ARE YOU LISTENING???? GOD HAS A DIFFERENT PLAN FOR EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US. We as human beings are all different and as such his word to you is different than his word to me. He has a different path for you than he has for me. That is why his message is different for all of us and it means that NOT ONE OF US IS WRONG UNLESS WE ARE HATING OR HURTING EACH OTHER. Grow up and listen to his word and accept every other person for who they are UNLESS they are hurting others.
      I have long hair. I am a man. Many people look down on me because I have long hair. WHY? Oh to you people I am wrong. It says so in the bible. “ does not even nature show us that it is a shame upon a man to have long hair” Uh NO IT DOESNT. Nature shows us that the male is ALWAYS more adorned. The male lion has long hair, the male duck has vibrant colors, the male peacock has long colorfull feathers. “nature” teaches us the OPPOSITE of what the new testament says. Now the old testament tells us that “a man shall not cut his hair nor shall he take a razor to his face”. Gods word is different for each of us. We are all different. QUIT THE HATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • Matt
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:58pm

      As a former ex-mormon who has now come back to the faith. I promise you that Mormons are Christians. I would swear with my hand on the bible in a court that we are.

      Furthermore, remember what Christ said to Peter when there were men claiming to be with Christ who did not meet with Peter’s approval? Christ said that Peter should leave them alone because they were on the same team. Christ always preaches love, togetherness and acceptance. Anyone that preaches with hatred in their hearts towards mormons is by definition speaking the words of the devil, because Christ would never speak hateful things. Maybe that is why Mormon leaders never retaliate and speak ill of other religions despite their constant slandering. they dont want to also be doing satans work.

      @PastorRick laying it on a little thick there are we? No where in the book of mormon does it claim to have taken place in south america. In fact, there are certain things in the book of mormon that make it impossible for it to have occured there, like snow, and horses, and the fact that the nephites built almost exclusively with wood. Nope, its more likely that it took place in the northeastern united states and that all those other cultures and civilizations had nothing to do with the book of mormon.

      Report Post »  
    • PATTY HENRY
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:01pm

      OKAY HOT SHOTS!! This CATHOLIC LOVES JOEL AND VICTORIA OSTEEN and would NOT miss a Sunday TV show. THERE is nothing about him that is Prosperity Ministry. His “Doctrine” is straight from our BIBLE and is just a REMINDER of Jesus’s Words put in a way that most of us can comprehend! There is a reason the OSTEEN’S have #1 Best Sellers; Millions of followers. There is Nothing I’ve ever gotten from him that says If I give him $ I’ll get “X”…. That’s not how GOD works..CHRISTIANS know it. It’s about our relationship/obedience to GOD. It’s about knowing who God is and how wonderful He is. That‘s what OSTEEN preaches and if you don’t believe me, watch for yourselves…and these jealous, uninformed and pathetic posters saying otherwise really are sad. PS I’ve watched Joel for 8 years at least.

      Report Post » PATTY HENRY  
    • maccow
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:05pm

      For all you Mormon apologists;
      You don’t have to accept the following, but it is a Christian’s view of Mormonism.
      Both The LDS and Jehovah Witnesses have modern (1800s) scriptures that contradict the Bible. Both churches teach that their new revelation from God supersedes, is more true, more accurate, then that which was formerly understood. To the rest of Christendom, if a new revelation, or new prophecy, is not consistent with the old, you must throw out the new. The Apostle Paul teaches no less.
      God’s word teaches if a “Prophet” is inaccurate even once, you must discount their prophecies.

      The BOM< PGP, DAC and The Watchtower, teaches extra biblical doctrines that are inconsistent with the former doctrines.
      Many of the same terms are used but they have very significantly different meanings to the LDS and JWs then to Protestants and Catholics.
      Jesus is not God.
      Jesus is not God's only son.
      Jesus and Satan are brothers.
      Jesus atoned only for the sin of Adam, or for the JWs Jesus is Adam.
      Both JWs and LDS teach a very high view of their adherents in the here after.
      Both churches elevate the writings of their founders to the cannon of scripture.
      Many of the differences between LDS, JWs and Protestant/Catholic etc, are theologically incompatible.
      For the Christian who wants more specifics on this subject, I recommend Walter Martin's "Kingdom of the Cults."
      No hate here, just the facts.
      I'm still voting for Romney because at least he's not a Commie.

      Report Post » maccow  
    • westtitus
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:08pm

      That is news to me that Mormans are Christians….what about Joseph Smith and the Golden tablets! I have a friend that was a Morman and is now a Christian and she gave me a copy of the so called Morman Bible and they do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God or do they believe in the Trinity. If you don’t believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God and do not believe in the Trinity (cannot be saved without the Holy Spirit convicting you in your heart that you are a sinner) then you are not a Christain. I guess he does not know what C H R I S T I A N mean? Totally false doctrine, but in the end times even the Elect will be deceived! Olsteen “show me the money”!

      westtitus  
    • Elfvis
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:10pm

      @Joey

      If any prophesies of a prophet are found to be false, the prophet should be considered a false prophet. Deut 18 is just one of may places in OT and NT discussing false prophets.

      20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

      21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?

      22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

      If Joesph Smith were a prophet why is his translation of the bible only considered canon by the Reorganized LDS church and not the LDS church?

      Did Joesph Smith not prophecy in 1832 that the temple and New Jerusalem be built in Missouri and dedicated by Joesph Smith?

      Joesph Smith had prophecy about 6 foot tall men on the moon who look like Quakers.

      Joesph Smith believed that the mob that killed him was there to save him.

      Joesph Smith prophesied that if he lived into his 80′s he would see the return of Christ (1890′s). He prophesied that many alive in his time would live to see the return of Christ.

      In the History of the Church Vol 6. Smith claimed to have done more to hold together the Church than Paul, Peter, John and Jesus.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:12pm

      Muslims do not “believe” in Jesus, nor do the majority of most Jews, or Buddists, or Hindus, or for that matter many people found in churches ….

      Report Post »  
    • PATTY HENRY
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:13pm

      PS the ONE THING I do know about ROMNEY: HE is not a communist. Obama’s Mommy was a Commie; His Daddy (already married when he married Obama’s Mommy) was a Commie; Obama’s Grand parents in Hawaii were Commies; His MENTOR: Frank DAVIS was a card-carrying COMMIE.
      Valarie Jarrett’s Parents were reported to be Commies, Most of the people that dope has surrounded hiimself around in and out of the WH have claimed to be Communists/Socialists/ Mao-ist.
      WE HAVE A BIG CHOICE COMING: A muslim trojan horse Manchurian Candidate who is a Communist and someone who acknowledged our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ as the Son of God.
      DUH.

      Report Post » PATTY HENRY  
    • MittensKittens
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:24pm

      Stick to ra ra preaching Olsteen…

      Report Post » MittensKittens  
    • Matt_Slick
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:27pm

      Joel Osteen needs some serious theological training. The Christian God is NOT the same God as the one of Mormonism. Here is what Mormonism teaches — from Mormon sources! There are many gods, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163); There is a mother goddess, (Articles of Faith, by James Talmage, p. 443); God used to be a man on another planet, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 321); After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god, (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pages 345-347, 354); God resides near a star called Kolob, ( Pearl of Great Price, pages 34-35; Mormon Doctrine, p. 428.) The Trinity is three separate gods, (James Talmage, Articles of Faith, p. 35); God is increasing in knowledge, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 120); God has the form of a man, (Joseph Smith, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 6, p. 3). God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children, (Mormon Doctrine p. 516); There is no salvation without accepting Joseph Smith as a prophet of God, (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 188). Mormonism is not Christian. http://carm.org/is-mormonism-christian. TO JOEL OSTEEN. I am willing to fly to your church, at my expense, and sit with you and teach you Christian Theology as it relates to God, Jesus, Salvation, etc., along with why Mormonism is not Christian. carmstuff@yahoo.com

      Report Post »  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:34pm

      Maccow,

      I need to set you straight on what you said about Jehovah’s Witnesses;
      Jesus is not God. > Answer – Jesus is God’s Son
      Jesus is not God’s only son. > Answer – Jesus is God’s “only begotten son” the “first born of all creation”. All the rest of the angels are called “sons of God”
      Jesus and Satan are brothers. > Answer – The angel who became Satan was created after the first-born Son (Jesus) was created.
      Jesus atoned only for the sin of Adam, or for the JWs Jesus is Adam. > Answer – Wrong!
      Both JWs and LDS teach a very high view of their adherents in the here after. > Answer – What?
      Both churches elevate the writings of their founders to the cannon of scripture. > Answer – Wrong.

      If you are going to post a comment about Jehovah’s Witnesses, it would be good if you did not lie about them. Get some education before commenting on something you know nothing about.

      Report Post » YellowFin  
    • P8riot
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:36pm

      PEOPLE! STEP BACK AND LOOK AT THIS CONVERSATION!

      I hate to say it, but no one on this thread will be convinced one way or the other. We’re all just bible bashing now.

      State your testimony and move on. Just say what you believe and why.

      I would venture to say that at least one of the anti-mormon posters here is from the left trying to divide us from within.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • candcantiques
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:39pm

      4truth2all
      Sorry to burst your bubble but 99% of humans alive today believe that there once existed a man by the name of Jesus for whom the New Testament was written. What Jews and Muslims as well as others DONT believe is that he was GODS son.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:56pm

      Yo P8riot:
      Conversation IS people talking back and forth WITH one another … as far as the bashing … nothing in my hands. Further, if nothing anyone say‘s changes you’re beliefs who do you believe what you at this moment believe. Arrogance would confine a man to himself.

      A good conversation is when two people listen …

      Report Post »  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:58pm

      @ Yellowfin,
      Thank you for providing an insider’s point for point on the ridiculous and inaccurate posts of an anti-JW.
      I won’t do the same for LDS doctrine, but will point out that similar tactics are used to attack the LDS on this thread.
      I have no problem debating people on the merits of ideas and their consequences. But when someone starts the debate claiming to know better than me what I believe, or has to twist what I believe before he attacks my idea, the debate is already a waste of time, so I call them inaccurate, and leave it at that.
      If you have a superior idea, by all means support it and convince people.
      This is what liberals can’t do either: come at conservative ideas head on.
      I may not agree with you on many points of your doctrine, JW friend, but my disagreement will be on the direction of your faith, never on the MAGNITUDE and general goodness of your faith.
      By the fruits my limited fellow-mortal judgment can see, JWs are prosperous, god-fearing, faithful people who serve each other, live honestly, and have happy, strong families. Whatever belief system produces such fruit is closer to the truth than the haters want to believe.
      And I leave the rest to Christ to decide whether you’re Christian or not. Not believing in another Christian’s *interpretation* of the Bible doesn’t disqualify you from believing in Him, and therefore being called by His name–thus saith MY *interpretation* of the Bible.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:07pm

      Yo Can…:

      Thankyou … but nothing broken here … I DID put “believe” in parenthesis = follower of Christ = not just someone whom recognizes he lived as a man and say’s …that’s nice!

      Report Post »  
    • lukerw
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:21pm

      Words are difficult… and Thinking hurts: All Religions are Alike (What BS)!

      Report Post » lukerw  
    • ChildOfTheKing
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:24pm

      Pledge to defeat Obama in November!!!

      https://www.freedomworksforamerica.org/pledge?source=contrib

      Report Post » ChildOfTheKing  
    • SERE22
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:26pm

      @ ENCINOM;
      Quite actually, the Book of Mormon does not preach polygamy like your comment suggests. And I have traveled down to Central America, in the Yucatan peninsula, where there is in fact archeological proof of the existence of the events in the Book of Mormon. There has been for decades in fact, but it’s not something you typically hear of in mainstream media. If you have the money and the time, I highly suggest you travel to Mexico and see for yourself. Or, rather “ask of God, who giveth to men liberally and upbraideth not.”

      Report Post » SERE22  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:31pm

      Yo Happy:

      In you’re first post 12:29 of the three verses, it reminds me of an IQ test … I believe that there is indeed a difference between 1&2 and number 3 …
      In you’re second and most recient post directed at “Yellowfin” … it is something that I have often thought , can someone that “twists” scripture (forgive my wording) but trusts in Jesus for salvation even if in fact they believe in a Christ that is not true to scripture (what he said of himself, most importantly) be saved ? It is something I greatly consider and with concern. You are correct that God will be the judge …. but hell is a place for “good” people and heaven is a place for “sinners”.

      Scripture is not a matter of interpretation , it is a matter of understanding. 5+5=10 it is left to understanding not interpretation and saying it is 9 by one’s “interpretation’ does not make it so.

      Report Post »  
    • ConservativeCanucklehead
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:32pm

      This is fascinating!
      To those who do not share your religious delusions, all of your ‘arguments’ are just sooooo ridiculous. And you don’t even see it.
      In fact, it is the argumentation which further entrenches your respective (and divergent) faiths. It is a remarkable phenomenon to observe.
      The implications are frightening, of course, but observed as a sort of sociological experiment it is fascinating.

      Hey, can we debate theories related to the actual height and weight of Santa Claus? I mean, is he able to come down chimneys because he is really very small?
      I know that those who believe in the “tiny Santa” doctrine cite the scriptures that describes Him as a “right jolly old elf”, and that he rode upon a “miniature sleigh” pulled by “eight tiny reindeer”? (The Night Before Christmas, verses 16 & 45)

      In our next study group, I hope we can debate whether or not the Tooth Fairy is actually the spirit-sister of Tinkerbell.

      Report Post »  
    • P8riot
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:33pm

      @4TRUTH2ALL – there is a very large gap between conversation and argument.

      No one can change my beliefs because I put my trust in God alone. It is He who has sent the Holy Ghost to testify to me that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true. 1 Corinthians 12:3. It is He who has pricked my heart when I have read the Book of Mormon and then prayed to know if it is true. Acts 2:37 (see also Moroni 10:4-5). I do not place my trust in the arm of flesh, but rather I know that no man can know the things of God, but by the Spirit of God. 1 Corinthians 2:11.

      My brother, I will not use the Scriptures to demean your beliefs, but rather to share with you what I believe. I believe that Jesus Christ is my Savior. John 4:14 (See also 1 Nephi 13:40). I believe that we are literally spirit children of our Father in Heaven and that he loves us as such. Acts 17:29 (See also 1 Nephi 17:36). I believe that God has once again raised up a living Prophet to guide us in these latter days. Amos 3:7 (see also 1 Nephi 22:2). I also believe that through the holy priesthood, families can be together forever, not just till death do us part. Matthew 16:19 (see also Helaman 10:7).

      Being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has been the greatest blessing of my life. Through it I have found true happiness and a closer relationship to our Father in Heaven and His Son, Jesus Christ.

      Not you, nor anyone else can make me deny what God has revealed to me.

      …

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • grudgywoof
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:56pm

      Mark 9:38-40 may answer how Jesus and God see Mormons……Those who are for us are not against us. I have always looked at it that way. We must stand together for Jesus.

      Report Post » grudgywoof  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:56pm

      Yo P8riot:

      You can not use scripture to demean my faith … that would be foolish on the one attempting it.
      If you wish to believe in the “additional” teachings and Christ bestows his grace apon you, all my stomping and complaining is futile. To me scripture clearly say’s sola scripture, and if not it is an open ended book and anything goes, which is exactly what is happening in these days … I would wish NO ONE out of heaven.

      Report Post »  
    • MuskratProblem
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:57pm

      Bring on the Mormon hate, you Christians disgust me. You would shoot down a fellow Christ / God lover faster that Judas betrayed Jesus. Plus I think you would do it for less than 30 denarii ( I have actually read the bible). Democrats will not lose us the election, stupid Christians will.

      Reason

      Report Post » MuskratProblem  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:57pm

      Lol, the logic here baffles me. Mormons are wrong because they believe a different interpretation of the Bible, but I’m sure each and every one of you has a different interpretation which is why none of you go to the same church. I wonder why there are thousands of religions based off of one book. It is a lot easier to rip someone elses belief than to state your own. You claim that every single word from a prophets mouth is inspired and is the word of God. I’m sorry, I don’t buy that. I believe they were allowed to have their own opinions when they weren’t speaking for the Lord. Jonah was still a prophet even though he turned from God and fled his mission. Your claim that the second they make a mistake, they aren‘t prophets anymore isn’t based on anything biblical. If they speak in the name of the Lord and it isn’t in the name of the Lord, of course they are false prophets. There was only one perfect man who remained perfect His entire life. Jesus taught how to tell false prophets, “by their fruits ye shall know them”. The fruits of Joseph Smith is the Book of Mormon. It’s not “if they are perfect, they are prophets”.

      Report Post »  
    • Prepare for the 2nd Coming
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:01pm

      Got that right!

      Report Post » Prepare for the 2nd Coming  
    • HappyStretchedThin
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:12pm

      @ 4Truth,
      With all the love I can muster, brother, there’s a flaw in your “understanding”.
      All reading is about interpretation, even Biblical reading.
      Of course I agree with you that God has one doctrine that we all must believe in and adhere to for salvation. But you’d have to ignore a whole lot of variation in creeds to miss the fact that the Bible is “understood” VERY differently by almost every “Christian” denomination out there.
      You‘re quite right to be cautious about peoples’ claims to gospel truth–the Bible asks us to test claims, and reject false ones–but until you see your OWN understanding as one of several possible interpretations, you‘ll always miss what truth IS in other peoples’ beliefs.

      Report Post » HappyStretchedThin  
    • LetUsReason
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:14pm

      @ Pastorrick, Encinom, and others

      It’s not that we have a lack of evidence, it’s that you have a lack of faith and truth. You want the name of a place in the Book of Mormon that exists today? Try Nahom. Also, the Smithsonian doesn’t display artifacts truthfully all the time. You must read and believe everything the liberal media tells you, too, don’t you? The Smithsonian once displayed an artifact upside-down. It was found in the American Midwest and contained ancient writing that (when upside-down) was said to be a Native American script, although unknown and of unknown translation. It was actually discovered to be a form of Hebrew that was displayed incorrectly, but the Smithsonian did not take personal responsibility for the error. After displaying it correct side up, they still waffled about the script. In fact, there are many artifacts that have been found in the US containing ancient Hebrew script.

      Most of their towns were built of wood, and their culture (as indicated in the Book of Mormon) was destroyed. Why should you expect to see vast ruins of theirs over 1500 years later?? An adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.

      The truth is that you’re not looking for truth, only to disprove.

      Report Post »  
    • honey46
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:27pm

      all I will say is a lot of you need to wake up .

      Report Post » honey46  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:28pm

      Yo Joey8:

      Nobody claimed, (certainly not I) that the prophets were perfect people and did not engage in conversation not written down in scripture. But when you say; thus say’s the LORD you better have it right!
      Simple fact: the book of Morman is added to scripture it is not an “ interpretation”.
      Futher, it is not “interpretation” it is “translation” which can exist without changing the meaning.

      Example : the sunset was beautiful with it’s many colors
      I saw a sunset that blew me away with it’s dazzling colors
      or: Yo, was checkin out the sun going down it was awesome dude!

      Report Post »  
    • cessna152
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:42pm

      And to think, I used to listen to this “scripture twister”.
      Psalm 118:8 (NLT)
      It is better to trust the Lord
      than to put confidence in people.
      God’s word never changes, but man’s interpretation of it does.

      Report Post » cessna152  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:14pm

      Yo Cessna152:

      He’s one straight up … how about the entire Psalm of 119

      Report Post »  
    • akairey
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:37pm

      People, would you rather have a Mormon on your side or an Muslim where it literally tells them to:
      Qur’an (5:51) – “O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.” or Qur’an (9:29) “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” You tell me which you’d prefer!

      Report Post »  
    • NOT A CRAZY
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:44pm

      Joel Olsteen is a sign of the times.

      Report Post » NOT A CRAZY  
    • A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:36pm

      @ted99999,

      “For those that would like to see evidence supporting the book of mormon here is a great site. ~jefflindsay~” …
      “The arguments of those that say the book of mormon can be disproven is sadly outdated.”

      See here.

      Letters to the Editor: September 2005
      http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/letters_to_the_editor/2005/2005september.htm

      “He recently bought LDS books and videos claiming to have found Lehi’s trail and the actual Mt. Arat. What do you know about this?” …

      “The LDS Church has not officially endorsed this view of Lehi’s route.” …

      “In the February, 2001, issue of the LDS magazine Ensign, there was a small notice, on p.79, that stated:
      “Book of Mormon Linked to Site in Yemen” …

      “So what have we learned?
      “First, this is not the name of a place, it is an inscription on a monument. Who or what is it referring to?” …

      “Mormon scholar S. Kent Brown related “A certain ‘Biathar, son of Sawad, son of Nawan, the Nihmite’ donated the altar to the temple. The altar has been part of a traveling exhibit of artifacts from ancient Yemen….”" …

      “Mormon apologist Jeff Lindsay states … “The reference to the tribe of Nihm doesn’t prove the existence of a place by the same name.” …

      “Fifth, notice that they admit that this is the “FIRST ARCHAEOLOGICAL FIND THAT SUPPORTS A BOOK OF MORMON PLACE-NAME.” If this is the best they have, they are in DEEP trouble.”

      Report Post »  
    • FIREPROOF
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:36pm

      Followers of Jesus Christ believe He was fully GOD and fully MAN on earth. Therefore they are called “Christians”… If you don’t believe this and believe otherwise, can anyone call you a Christian or call yourself one?

      “And It is by His Grace alone that we are saved through Faith and this not from ourselves, it is the gift of GOD, not by works, so that NO ONE can boast”. EPH 2:8

      Jesus himself claims full diety that he IS GOD in scripture, here’s just one of them for now. In Rev 1:17 “I am the First and the Last” the same claim GOD of the Old Testament revealed to us through His Prophet Isaiah in ISA 48:12 “I am HE, The First and the Last” .

      ISAIAH 9:6 “For us a child is born, to us a son was given, and the government shall be on His shoulders, and He WILL be called WONDERFUL COUNSELOR, MIGHTY GOD, EVERLASTING FATHER, PRINCE OF PEACE” not just the Son as most religions make Him out to be.

      There are oodles of proof of Jesus’ full diety in the Holy Bible, Jesus is the creator and Living God!

      Report Post »  
    • Bro. Chuck
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:40pm

      I won’t judge….
      that is Adonai’s domain…..

      Matthew 7-
      13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat : 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits . Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down , and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them , I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

      Be Bless’d in Yeshua!

      Bro. Chuck

      Report Post »  
    • author.jbjones
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:56pm

      Satan and his angels also believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but that doesn’t make them Christians. Joel needs to learn the Biblical definition of “a Christian,” so he isn’t so liberal with his labels.

      Report Post »  
    • A Doctors Labor Is Not My Right
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 6:04pm

      You have to believe that Jesus is God.

      See here.

      John 8:58 NASB

      “Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.””

      “I am” is “ego eimi”. Without saying “I am X”, the claim being made is to existence in all times at once, which is something that only God could legitimately claim.

      Report Post »  
    • keithivy61
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 7:26pm

      This is going exactly as planned…………………………..Barry Soetoro

      Report Post »  
    • daxawyes
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 7:55pm

      I’m pretty surprised and disappointed to see so much vitriol from so called republicans on this post. The criticizers here are as close to truth as they are to tolerance.

      Report Post »  
    • ConservativeCanucklehead
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:06pm

      When do the Easter Bunny debates begin?

      Report Post »  
    • mils
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:37pm

      wow..have you folks read what you have written? the nastiness, the venom, the name calling…..christians?…

      Report Post »  
    • GPS-Tech
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:56pm

      Hi my name is Hoel Osteen and anyone can come to my church as long as they bring money. Lots and lots of MONEY!

      Report Post » GPS-Tech  
    • ModerationIsBest
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:49pm

      Mormonism hijacked Christianity.

      Christianity hijacked Judaism

      Judaism hijacked their beliefs from previous beliefs.

      None of these things are original……or true.

      Report Post »  
    • noresignation
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:21pm

      Mmormanism teaches that God the Father had sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary and that is how Jesus was begotten. Joel Osteen is an heretic and an apostate. But then this is the apostasy the apostle Paul wrote about in 2 Thessalonians 2.

      Report Post » noresignation  
    • riseandshine
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:44pm

      @No Resignation…………That is a lie.

      Report Post » riseandshine  
    • USAONLYdotUS
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:30am

      I live where Mormons are plentiful. They work hard to focus on Family, but you have got to look at facts.
      Founded by Joseph Smith, he dabbled in the occult and free masonry. Some of the bazaar doctrines are women are only called “from the grave” by their husbands to spend eternity in heaven. Secret marriage Ceremonies to be “sealed” into the temple, confirm this. Then there is the belief that certain cotton underwear are sacred and will keep you safe. Also Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in heaven. The reason for so many kids………….they are floating around in the celestial heavens and they need to get down here on earth, (hence, Joseph Smith’s mandate for multiple wives, to have the most children) (Google Colorado City/Polygamy and there is where the Fundamentals live, incest runs rampant) . To confirm other comments, there are no records of the Book of Mormon’s civilizations, language , but most important, money/coins Try opening a business in a dominate Mormon population, and you’re not one of them, your business doesn’t get patronized. Not just talk, I witnessed it first hand. Osteen on his best day delivers “Church Lite”. Jesus would come and flip his tables if He was here. Will I not vote for Romney because he is Mormon? Romney is no threat to “forcing his Religion” on America, take a look at what we have now, 4 more years of obama and sharia law will rule the land.

      Report Post » USAONLYdotUS  
    • Tedisalive
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 3:15am

      First- As much as I would like it to be, being a Christian is not required for president; many were not.

      Second- As a christian pastor, it is common knowledge that mormons are not christian. Until recent years they did not even want to be associated with other christians. Besides its many prophetic errors, foundational, historical and geological problems there are major theological problems.

      For example: to a mormon there are many gods not one Almighty God. They worship the god of this planet; they call the heavenly father. Jesus to a mormon is not God Almighty in the flesh, but rather the first offspring of the heavenly father of this planet. Lucifer and Jesus are brothers. Salvation to a mormon is not based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross, but rather rules & requirements that will hopefully bring an elevated state where they too may become a god of their own planet. Joseph Smith claimed he brought restoration of the only true church and all others were demonic. Each head prophet has authority to add or change teaching, thus we have diff revisions of their own theology. BTW- if you doubt any of this, just research their own website.

      If a mormon says these are untrue, I think they are either disingenuous or uninformed about their own religion.

      Most Mormons are kind family oriented people who make great neighbors & patriots, but according to the Bible, they are not Christian. Still, I will be supporting Romney if nominated.

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:35am

      Regarding our differences on the concept of modern revelation I would like to ask you “Christians” a few questions. If God held a televised news conference, would you watch it? If so, do you think you would learn something new? Maybe there’s more that God wants to tell us. Personally, I find it quite puzzling that some people want to close canon – as if the Bible is the be-all and end-all of what God (in Whom 88% of us believe) wants us to learn, and that by reading it one has finished school.
      We (whom you refer to as Mormons) make a simple claim: God still speaks to His children through a prophet because there is much more knowledge He wants to give to help us with life’s test. Those of an opposite persuasion claim that God commanded that nothing be added to the Bible. Let’s take a closer look.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:36am

      Cont…

      The charge not to add anything to the Bible is extrapolated from a verse in the 22nd chapter of Revelations:

      “For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, if any shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book.”

      Heavy stuff. The problem for those using this statement to assert that there shall be no further scripture is that “this book” refers to the book of Revelations, not the Bible as a whole. The Bible as we know it was not compiled in its present sequence, with Revelations last, until centuries after John wrote that verse. Further, Revelations may have been written before John’s own three epistles. (See http://www.truthnet.org/Christianity/revelation/Introduction/ & http://www.abideinchrist.com/messages/1jnintro.html)

      Today’s Bible is not even the same collection of scriptural books it once was. In the Bible’s own pages are references to other books that were once accepted as scripture but which have been lost: Jasher, Solomon, Wars of the Lord, Samuel, Gad, Nathan, Ahijah, Iddo, and the list goes on. If these lost books happened to turn up in an archaeological dig, under what stretched rationale could a don’t-add-anything-to-the-Bible person refuse to accept them? The Bible is obviously not a once-and-final collection of all the books that contain all the words the Lord gave to His people in ancient times.

      Cont..

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:37am

      Cont…

      If one found out that the Apostle Paul had written another letter to the Corinthians besides the two we have in the Bible, would that other letter be scripture? Well, Paul actually did write a letter to the Corinthians before he wrote the one we call First Corinthians, as he reminds them in the firth chapter of that book. (see 1 Corinthians 5:9, Paul refers to an earlier letter: “I wrote you in an epistle not to company with fornicators….”) So if that letter and the lost books would be accepted as holy write if found today, why not then other inspired writings?

      The need to be open to further knowledge is well accepted. When has mankind ever exhausted any topic of knowledge? When have we ever been justified in ignoring new insights, new facts, new information in any form?

      The way I view it, if I took a course of study from a professor, would I think at the end of the last class that I had learned everything he could teach me? If I read one book from an author, would I think I had exhausted all he could tell me?

      Why should one Bible contain all that God wants to tell us and all we need to know? Well, if we admit that we cannot drain all the knowledge available from one fallible person in one book or one class, why do we think one Bible contains all that God can or wants to tell us?

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:38am

      Cont…

      When we Mormons tell the world that there are additional scriptures, the standard answer we hear is that God may have more that He could say, but He has given us “all we need to know”.
      We submit that the differing interpretations of the Bible are PRIMA FACIE evidence that, indeed, mankind does NOT have all it needs to know.

      It is part of our nature, and all people like to think they are knowledgeable and up on things. Some, however, get carried away with their accomplishments and not only feel they are above the intelligence of the huddled masses, but have all the knowledge they need. In such hubris lies a fall. Consider a few of the dumber things that have been said by intelligent people about new knowledge:

      “This [atomic bomb project] is the biggest fools thing we have ever done. The bomb will never go off, and I speak as an expert in explosives” Admiral William Leahy to President Harry S. Truman, 1945.

      “Heaver-than-air flying machines are impossible.” Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.

      “There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.” Ken Olson, president, chairman and founder of Digital Equipment Corp., 1977.

      “Louis Pasteur’s theory of germs is ridiculous fiction.” Pierre Pachet, professor of physiology at Toulouse, 1872.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:39am

      Cont…

      “This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” Western Union internal memo, 1876.

      This elitist attitude, smug in present knowledge and too lazy to be curious about the new, can trip us up as the above examples show, but is especially dangerous when it comes to things of Deity, such as assuming that God has nothing of further importance to tell us. While many people are skeptical about the idea of additional scripture, this doesn’t mean they would not be curious if God held a news conference.

      So then why can’t there not be equal curiosity in God’s words if the mode of delivery is the printed page instead of an electronic medium? Let us look at what many believe is an additional collection of God’s word to His children, the Book of Mormon. It was written, as stated on its title page, “… to the convincing of the Jew and Gentile that Jesus is the Christ….”

      Within that mission statement, the relevant question about the Book of Mormon is whether it can tell people something they don’t know, give guidance, illuminate Christ’s doctrines, solidify beliefs in Christ, and otherwise make them better. We think it can.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:40am

      Cont…

      Allow me to quote a few of my favorite points of theology and philosophy found in its pages.
      Knowledge of Christ: We knew of Christ and had a hope of his glory many hundred years before his coming.

      Faith: Ye shall be called the children of Christ, for he hath spiritually begotten you; for your hearts are changed through faith on his name.

      Salvation: There shall be no other name given whereby salvation can come unto the children of men, only in and through faith on his name.

      Natural man: The natural man is an enemy of God and will be forever unless he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit and puts off the natural man through the atonement of Christ.

      Cleanliness: No unclean thing can inherit the kingdom of God.

      Service: When you are in the service of your fellow beings, you are only in the service of your God.

      Voice of the people: It is not common that the voice of the people desires anything that is contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore you shall do your business by the voice of the people.

      Learning: To be learned is good if you harken unto the counsels of God.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:41am

      Cont…

      Riches: Before ye seek for riches, seek ye for the kingdom of God. And after ye have obtained a hope in Christ ye shall obtain riches, if ye seek them; and ye will seek them to do good—to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, liberate the captive and administer relief to the sick.

      Opposition: It must needs be that there is opposition in all things. If not, all things must be a compound in one.

      Weakness: I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.

      Actions: Wickedness never was happiness.

      Three out of five Americans (61%) believe, as we do, that God still talks to prophets today. I hope, along with all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, they will look around to find where those words might be written.

      Some additional websites you may find helpful: http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophets.shtml, http://www.lds.org, http://www.mormon.org

      Report Post » Lux  
    • rickinnyc
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 6:23am

      False teacher indeed; BOYCOTT HIS MINISTRY.

      Report Post » rickinnyc  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 7:21am

      @black9897
      Wow, you have been around the word but seem to know nothing of it. Did you really try to use Revelation to support that the Bible is complete? It says the same thing in Deut. 4:2-3 so if that is true, the rest of the Old Testament and the new testament are false, Christ never came and the Jews are correct. Or there is also the fact that the books of John were written after Revelation so they must be false. And there is the fact that the Bible was compiled hundreds of years after the books were written, by a group of second hand bishops who compromised on what should be in it, and the Bible we know did not exist until after 300 AD. But of course none of the facts matter to you do they. Also, I love how you state how we “worship” Joseph Smith. That alone shows me that you really know nothing of my faith and that all you “know” was taught by a hate filled “pastor” who knew absolutly nothing himself. Show me one thing to support that we worship Joseph Smith! Show me one thing to support that there would be no more prophets! Show me one thing to support that revelation would change after Chrsit as you so claimed.

      Report Post »  
    • JJ Coolay
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 7:39am

      You can consider Mormons brothers in Christ all you want, but Christ doesn’t consider them saved. Which is all that counts.
      ______________

      That’s a bit presumptous.
      If you confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus Christ is Lord, that he died and rose from the grave, you will be saved.
      ANYONE of ANY religion can believe that. They can still be misled by false teachings, but they may still be saved. Notice the key word: MAY be saved. I’m not saying they are, but you cannot say they aren’t. ONLY God is the judge of man and man’s hearts.

      Report Post » JJ Coolay  
    • jerimiah41
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:22am

      Wow, am I glad my wife and I see Joel Osteen in the same light. He does not act like a christian from the same bible I read everyday for past number of years. His interview with Ophrah convinced me when he could not just defend the scriptures regarding homesexuality. The scriptures are clear and he should have had the courage to just quote the scripture. He claimed that sins are not catgorized. That is clearly false. Homosexuality is defined as an abomination against the word. Very emphatic by our Lord. He is too much into himself and not really into the love of Christ first. His idol worship is himself first. Now he can judge others. The devil is clearly using him to send messages that are not the words in the scriptures and what christians should believe. Amen Brother. Love ya and I pray for those unbelievers and believers to be ask for courage and wisdom.

      Report Post »  
    • Politryx
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:44am

      The Blaze admin are COWARDS!!! I’ve been censored 4 times on this article for trying to share the following link for my Mormon friends: http://www.irr.org/mit/lboa-video.html

      Report Post » Politryx  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:03am

      Yo Lux:

      The Book of Morman is new teaching not found in the bible. If the additional letter of Paul was found ( which is a mute point ) it would NOT ADD NEW teaching and other scripture would complement it, which was one of the tests for other materials. Further if the bible is the inspired Word of God is HE not capable of writing a book and putting in it what he wants and calling it finished… He did after all create the universe. Even John spoke about the volumes that could be written if everything Jesus did was spoken of. Why are those events not in the bible? … easy answer God said 66 we’re good. You’re 20 billion posts are quite simple to refute.

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:51am

      @NASADO It’s very clear what the truth is. And it is very clear Mormons believe in false teachings. If you cannot see that then, well I understand. So you’re saying the Bible isn’t complete? Since the NT is part of the Bible then no, it would not mean that. That is not the way the Bible was put together. It wasn’t a vote of “hey, this looks good, put it in”. Well you do. Why? Anyone who follows false teachings of some cult that added an extra book is not following Christ. Excuse me, but you do not know my father, and he is far from teaching hate. Oh, of course you won’t admit you worship smith, but in reality you do. Never claimed those things. Mormonism is utter BS, and false teachings. Since you don’t think it is, then tell me what Mormons believe? I’m curious as to what you say it’s about.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • pastorrick
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:53am

      Hey Fightinglee- if they had no writtten language then where did Joseph Smith get the “Golden Tablets” that contained the text of the book of mormon? Where did Smith get the names of the people and places contained in the book of mormon? Did he just make them up? Did God reveal names of people and places to Smith that were false or were they real? Why can we not find one piece of evidance that any of these people and places were real? Yet the Bible, which the mormons officially call flawed as it exists today, is so easily validified! We actually have a few second generation texts and we have texts of Isaiah that are nearly a thousand years apart in origination and yet exactly the same with only 30-40 character, not words but characters, in variation. With the book of mormon we have no, zero, nada manuscripts. According to Smith and a few “witnesses” God gave them the golden tablets to translate, I assume from the origional language of the South American Indians, and then took the text away. Why did God chose to have hundreds of copies of the Biblical text preserved and exactly NONE from the book of mormon? Simple question!

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:56am

      @JJ Yes. And I never claimed they couldn’t. However, when you look at what they believe it’s very difficult to say they are saved. Yep, only God knows. But I can sure take a guess and come to a decision. They don’t believe in basic fundamental teachings of the Bible. And anyone who follows something where some dude wrote a book adding it to the Bible IS false. You cannot add anything to the Bible….those who do, I can come to a really good conclusion they probably aren’t saved.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:03am

      PastorRick;

      “Simply begin with the geological findings of the Smithsonian that not one city mentioned in the book of mormon has ever been found in South America where is supposedly took place….”

      Weren’t you critiquing Olsteen for “supposing” things? And while South America is advocated by some LDS scholars and members as the geographical place of the Book of Mormon, nowadays most seem to advocate Meso America. There the Mayan historic record of a great battle ensuing and which influicted cruelty and torture corresponds almost precisely with the Nephite’s last battle and description of that war. The city of Tulum shows a temple similar to Solomon’s temple and Nephit records having abuilt a temple after the manner of Solomon. You also need to apply the fact that unlike the Old World, the New World does not retain the names of ancent cities with that of the names tday. This lack of typonyms makes geological work much more difficult than that of the Old World.

      There’s also Brian D. Stubbs whose unique thorough reseach shows linguistic connections between Near Eastern languages and those of the Uto-Aztecan linguistic family.

      But it is not man’s science which I know the Book of Mormon is true; it’s by the Holy Spirit which cnfirms to me its truthfulness as well as the truthfulness ofthe Bible. Without the Holy Spirt man may never learn of God and the things of God. Despite how handy he is with science.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:14am

      Yo Nasado:
      Boy, reading you’re post I wonder why or if you put any trust in the bible at all since it is incomplete and done by idiots; “second hand bishops” as you state … I thought God was overseeing this since it was HIS book. I run a business and I see to it that what gets done is according to what I WANT, and I’m not God. You’re statements sound like the very things atheists say ….

      But then I understand why you do such …you put the teachings of Smith above the bible so you do in fact “worship” Smith.
      Joseph Smith :…”ignorant translators. careless transribers or designing or corrupt priests have commited many errors” in the bible, and he corrected them according to God’s revealing.

      Concerning the prophets… how about the entire bible … I give you one, since that is what you asked for … Ephesians 2:19-22 My suggestion is read it ( I don’t have time to type it, spent to much time here already) and do a word study on prophets and the prophetic from the bible alone !!!
      It talks about building, and the foundation is the apostles and prophets with Jesus as the chief conerstone … chief .. because that is the FIRST stone laid as there are four corners. Being in construction these verse are more personal … YOU DO NOT LAY MORE FOUNDATION DOWN ON THE ROOF = 1800 years latter … come on, apply some SIMPLE logic here !!!
      I am not here for my benfit or to argue … I am 4TRUTH … and truth is 2 the benifit of ALL.

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:17am

      Black9897;

      “but Christ doesn’t consider them saved.”

      Wow. Not only can you read minds but the mind of the great divine I AM.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:23am

      4Truth;

      “You state Morman churches fast growth … ever see weeds grow (sorry for the anology), but that point means nothing.”

      Sure it means something. It means that you’re a highly defective lawnmower. :>)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:35am

      4truth;

      Show Christians hate Mormons? Nasado’s account of his mission qualifies but so does this:

      “At about 4:00 P.M. the mob approached Haun’s Mill. The women and children fled into the woods, while the men sought protection in the blacksmith shop. David Evans, the military leader of the Saints, swung his hat and cried for peace. The sound of a hundred rifles answered him, most of them aimed at the blacksmith shop. The mobbers shot mercilessly at everyone in sight, including women, elderly men, and children. . . .

      The rabble entered the blacksmith shop and found ten-year-old Sardius Smith, son of Amanda Smith, hiding under the blacksmith’s bellows. One ruffian put the muzzle of his gun against the boy’s skull and blew off the upper part of his head. The man later explained, “Nits will make lice, and if he had lived he would have become a Mormon.”"

      http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204653604577249332366863576.html

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:41am

      Encinom;

      “The Book of Mormons has zero historical facts contained within it.”

      Huh?

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:50am

      Yo Darren:

      Dude … it is not my job to be the lawn mower … the tares WILL grow up with the wheat … this is within the “church”.

      Concerning the hatred of “christians” don’t know why you address that to me. I have said many times that we do on occasion behave badly … prove to me that the murderers of Smith were “christians”. and that they are in heaven having a good time …you can’t. You don’t seen to read my posts very well.

      Smiley faces back to you …

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:53am

      Momprayn;

      “Re Mormons – sigh…..problem is many….they do not believe Jesus is a part of the “Godhead” ”

      WHAT?!?!?!

      “7 Behold my Beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, in whom I have glorified my name—hear ye him. 10 Behold, I am Jesus Christ, whom the prophets testified shall come into the world. 11 And behold, I am the light and the life of the world; and I have drunk out of that bitter cup which the Father hath given me, and have glorified the Father in taking upon me the sins of the world, in the which I have suffered the will of the Father in all things from the beginning. 14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.” (3 Nephi 11: 7,10-11,14)

      Tell me again what Mormons don’t believe about Jesus and the Godhead?

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:03am

      Freewaco;

      “Joseph Smith claimed tall men dressed as quakers live on the moon”

      He did? Even though that was written 40 years after he died? Amazing that Joseph Smith guy.

      “Brigham Young said men live on the sun”

      Yes, he did. Moses said bats were birds too. I don‘t think God really cares what man’s belief in science is so long they strive to follow His will in morals.

      “and Brigham Young said the Civil War would not free the slaves.”

      I’m unfamiliar with that statement but official doctrine has Joseph Smith recorded as saying a great war would begin in South Carolina and most likely over the slave issue. That from this war more wars would arise and consume all nations.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:27am

      4Truth;

      “You’re last post is exactly why followers have a problem … a prophet was a person that spoke the very words of God = thus sath the LORD … no mistakes … ONE mistake and you would have been called; rightfully so, a false prophet. ”

      What are you talking about?

      Here’s from Jonah 3-4: “4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day’s journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.” (3:4) That’s pretty clear. In fourty days Nineveh would be destroyed. Here’s what happened: “9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; cand God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.” In other words, it didn’t happen. Here it’s clear that God is in charge of fulfilling prophecy, not man. We als osee that man;s repentence and obedience can change the fulfillment of said prophecy. Jonah didn’t learn this though: “1 But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.” (1:4). But was Jonah a “false prophet”? His prophecy was not fulfilled as stated and he even got mad at God for not fulfilling it.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • texasbeta
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:39am

      Ironic that you are stating this on a website built by Glenn Beck, who is a Mormon.

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:40am

      (con’t)

      In addition to Jonah‘s prphecy not being fulflled as stated there’s King Zedekiah. Jeremiah said of King Zedekiah’s future: ” 4 Yet hear the word of the Lord, O Zedekiah king of Judah; Thus saith the Lord of thee, Thou shalt not die by the sword: 5 But thou shalt die in peace: and with the burnings of thy fathers, the former kings which were before thee, so shall they burn odours for thee; and they will lament thee, saying, Ah lord! for I have pronounced the word, saith the Lord.” (Jeremiah 34) A) He will not ‘die by the sword’ B) Shall die in peace C) Shall have a funerery procession like that of his fathers.

      Here’s what happened: “10 And the king of Babylon slew the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes: he slew also all the princes of Judah in Riblah. 11 Then he put out the eyes of Zedekiah; and the king of Babylon bound him in chains, and carried him to Babylon, and put him in prison till the day of his death.” (Jeremiah 52) Here Zedekiah indeed did not ‘die by the sword’. That was fulfilled. But witnessing the slaghter of his sons before him and then having his eyes ‘put out’ isn’t my idea of dying peeacefully. And there is no mentioning of a funeral procession let alone a kingly one. There are more prophecies in the bible of this manner.

      Again, it seems clear tha God is in chagre of prophecy including how it is fulfilled. Careful of your “false prophet” standard lest you include biblical prophets.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:44am

      My two posts on “fals prophecy” should be credited in full to Jeff Linsay who wrote an excellent piece on biblical prophecy.

      http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/FQ_prophets.shtml#strings

      Report Post » Darren  
    • GIDEON612
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:45am

      Rose colored glasses gives one a distorted view of reality.

      Report Post » GIDEON612  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:06pm

      McCow;

      “Jesus is not God.
      Jesus is not God’s only son.
      Jesus and Satan are brothers.”

      I won‘t speak of Jehovah’s witnesses but as for Mormon theology, is ABSOLUTELY declares Jesus as God. Unlike trinitarian formulas, Mormon theology also accepts Jesus’ own words that the Father is greater than He. “I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).

      You yourself do not believe that Jesus is God‘s ’only son’. ” When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?” (Job 38:7). You do believe that Jesus is God’s only Son “in the flesh” as do Mormons.

      Satans a fallen angel and was counted among the “sons of god” ain the Book of Job. Mormon theology declares the Father created all, even Satan and Jesus (though Jesus is eternal as spirit is eternal) and that makes them brothers. In no way, shape, or form, does Mormonism equate these two beings. Not even as peers.

      Westtitus;

      “I have a friend that was a Morman and is now a Christian and she gave me a copy of the so called Morman Bible and they do not believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God or do they believe in the Trinity.” You obviously did not read the Bok of Mormon if you honestly think Mormons do not believe He is the Son of God. The “Trinity” is an extra biblical creed and is not biblical.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Hollywood
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:07pm

      Just another, in a long list of Blab it and Grab it, health and wealth gurus.IF you can stand to watch a “SERMON” of his, watch how often he goes to the BIBLE, quoting from it.Hardly EVER! ONLY when he can quote out of Context. Without context, and co-text it is pretext. HE is of his father, the devil, and he will have an ETERNITY to think about what he has done, leading others to HELL with him.

      Report Post » Hollywood  
    • Hollywood
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:14pm

      Adding to Pastor Ricks’ comments re Mormons below. Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormons, has, in his writings, stated that their are Quakers living on the MOON. He has also written they are living on the SUN. Hullo? DNA profiling now Proves North American Indian tirbes did NOT descend from the lost tribes of Israel. There is SO much wrong with this cult. Jesus and satan WERE spiritual brothers?? Adam and EVE disobeying GOD, and eating of the Tree of Knowledge was a GOOD thing, re giving the knowledge of procreating? How about the Tree of life?
      I hate MormonISM, but love Mormons, just as I do with Muslims.
      I pray they will SEE the TRUTH, and come out of these cults.
      Maranatha

      Report Post » Hollywood  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:16pm

      Yo Darren:

      Concerning Jonah … Then the word of the LORD came to Jonah a second time: “Go to the great city of Nineveh and proclaim to it the message I give to you.”
      Jonah obeyed the word of the LORD and went to Nineveh ….Jonah 3:1-3- ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………… First off, you post me concerning something I did not say in word or spirit and I correct you … you say nothing except to try to find something else …. the dots were for you to RECONSIDER because you seemed to overlook these verses. Jonah DID NOT make a false statement (prophecy), he did exactly (“obeyed”) what the LORD told him to do. What the LORD does after that is totally up to HIM. Thankyou Darren, but you prove my point. Many of the prophecies did not have to be, as God gave opportunity for His people to change, they did not …Nineveh did …….so now?

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:22pm

      Elfvis;

      “Joesph Smith prophesied that if he lived into his 80′s he would see the return of Christ (1890′s). He prophesied that many alive in his time would live to see the return of Christ.”

      No, he did not. Nor did he talk about men on the Moon. Nor are all biblical prophecoes fulfilled as declared.

      Matt-Slick;

      “There are many gods”. You believe the same thing. “17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:” (Deuteronomy 10:17); and “Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High,” (Psalms 82:6 – compare with John 10:34).

      “There is a mother goddess”. Only by reason. a ‘mother goddess’ plays no part in LDS faith or worship & “Articles of Faith” are not official LDS doctrine.

      “God used to be a man on another planet” Absolutely no official doctrine saying any such thing.

      “After you become a good Mormon, you have the potential of becoming a god,” By being obdedient to god, you may become like Him in Christ. A “joint-heir” with Christ. Early Christianity preached the exact same thing and remanants of that is still found in the Catholic Catecism paragraph 430.

      “The Trinity is three separate gods”. Nothing unbiblicalabout that except the Bible does not say “Trinity”

      “God has the form of a man”. Exactly how aciet Isreal viewed God.

      “God is married to his goddess wife and has spirit children”. Absolute no official

      Report Post » Darren  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:22pm

      It’s odd. If Mormons believe the same thing as Christians, why call yourself mormon? Why have “mormon doctrine?” Why believe in any other book (written by MAN) other than the Bible (written by God). I have more respect for atheists because at least they deny it completely, and not twist and make up crap.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:53pm

      4Truth;

      “You can not use scripture to demean my faith … ”

      No but they can be, and should be, and have been, used to show the fallacy of your arguments.

      Keep cutting the Mormon weeds, Mr. Truth.

      ________________________
      Norsegination;

      “Mmormanism teaches that God the Father had sexual intercourse with the virgin Mary ”

      NO, IT DOES NOT!!!!!

      ____________________–
      Useonly;

      I won‘t speak much of the temple ceremony except tha it’s entirely biblical.

      Ys there is a pre-mortal existence and certain passages in the Bible which make little to no sensewthout knowledge ofthe pre-mortal existence.

      Thee is NO evidence of sexual contact between Joseph Smith oand any woman except Emma. NONE.

      “To confirm other comments, there are no records of the Book of Mormon’s civilizations, language , but most important, money/coins ” Factually incorrect.
      ______________________________
      Tedisalive;

      “Until recent years they did not even want to be associated with other christians. “. Factually incorrect.

      “to a mormon there are many gods not one Almighty God” Huh? There absoluty IS ‘one Almighty God” in Mormon theology.

      “Salvation to a mormon is not based on the finished work of Jesus on the cross” Jeus IS the only way for salvation in Mormon theology.

      Stop bearing false witness against your neighbor.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 1:14pm

      Black9897;

      “It’s odd. If Mormons believe the same thing as Christians, why call yourself mormon? Why have “mormon doctrine?””

      “Mormon” wasa name give to the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints by its enemies. It now has a historic precedent and thus is used but officially the LDS Church asks that the Church to be addressed as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and then after than may be referred to a “Mormon”. “Mormon history” or “Mormon doctrine” are acceptable due to its historic roots.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 1:25pm

      @ Darren That’s a problem. there is only ONE doctrine, Biblical Christian doctrine. Only ONE book that is the word of God, that being the Bible.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 1:34pm

      Yo Darren:
      I ended my last post with… so now?
      Well you’re responce was exactly as I suspected … you could not stand corrected when I used scripture and that alone to DISPROVE you’re post. Scripture say’s that a person who is corrected and refuses it is a fool ( go talk to God ) This would also indicate arrogance and pride ( go talk to God). Instead you’re purposed responce is to TRY to find something else wrong with my posts. YOU have NEVER used scripture to disprove ANYTHING I have said, and if you could or would; I sir would have the courage and humility to admit it.
      Not only that but you again speak to something else I said I was not doing and corrected you on and STILL YOU REPEAT IT. I do not cut morman weeds, I don’t hate mormans and said it was not my job to do such. But then the Word is a double edged sword….you finish it If you know it
      My apologies, but you are an idiot … or as scripture say’s … are you so dull ?
      Sorry dude but there is nothing further to say to you …post whatever bs you want….

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 1:56pm

      4Truth;

      “you post me concerning something I did not say in word or spirit and I correct you …”

      Hold my hand and let’s walk back together to my post @11::27. I quoted you as saying, ” a prophet was a person that spoke the very words of God = thus sath the LORD … no mistakes … ONE mistake and you would have been called; rightfully so, a false prophet.” This you 12:10pm post was in response to Joey @11:45 who told “fleewaco” that nobody except Jesus has ever been infallible and also that the prophets are free to have “were allowed to have their own opinions on things that aren’t regarded as official doctrine of the church”. Firthermore the remaining portion of your 12:10 post says as follows: “This way of God’s speaking to His people ended with the old testiment with the comming of Christ. The gift of prophesy mention in the NT is not the same … but then you allow this to be so because of the very words of the “additional” teachings you follow … very DECEPTIVE. …… 1-1=0″ You were CLEARLY speaking about the ‘words’ of prophecy and gettingthe prophecy correct lest you be a “false prophet” if you err in any way in the prophecy. This has nothing to do with a prophet being obedient to god but the prophet’s prophecy. I cited to you Jonah’s prophecy, not his obedience (which he did not do at first thus the “big fish” account) to the Lord by going to Nineveh

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:07pm

      (con’t)

      Jonah madea prphecy of the destruction of nineveh in “forty days”. there was no condition to tha prophecy. The people repented and the Lord spared them. This shows Jonah’s prophecy was not fulfilled as prophecied. To reinforce that conclusion, in chapter four, we read, as I cited, that Jonah was upset at God for not fulfilling the prophecy as declared.

      My assertion that man’s obedience affects the conditions of prophecy was to show tha the people of Nineveh repented and had nothing to do with that Jonah did. Because the people repented the Lord chose not to fulfill the prophecy which He sent Jonajh to make and as you pointed out, did indeed make.

      So don’t tell me that I addressed you about something what you never said “in word or in deed” for I addressed precisely what you said “in word and deed”, sir.

      “Jonah DID NOT make a false statement (prophecy), he did exactly (“obeyed”) what the LORD told him to do.” Yup and the prphcy was not fulfilled as declared, correct?

      “What the LORD does after that is totally up to HIM.” That was exactly my point. Your point to Joey is that if a prophet gets anything wrong he is “correctly” labeled a false prophet. Now you‘re saying there’s room forthe Lord to change the terms ofthe prophecy which is what I posted to you in the first place. You‘re learning and you’re trying to take credit for teaching me what I teach you.

      Good job, 4Truth.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:27pm

      Yo Darren:
      I don‘t think in you’re 2000 words and 2 posts you got anything right, and it would take 10 posts to correct, I‘ve tried this before and I’m not stupid enough to attempt it again.
      You start by saying that I should hold you’re hand … what you mean as an insult only shows you’re pride and arrogance which I alluded to in my previous post. The only thing I have learned from you ( again think highly of yourself) is patience, and I would add more here but it would not be very nice. I truly do hope that Jesus welcomes you with open arms someday.

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:34pm

      4Truth;

      “Well you’re responce was exactly as I suspected … you could not stand corrected when I used scripture and that alone to DISPROVE you’re post. Scripture say’s that a person who is corrected and refuses it is a fool ( go talk to God ) This would also indicate arrogance and pride ( go talk to God). ”

      What are you talking about? I didn’t respond to your 12:16 post until after you made your 1:34 post. My response to you 12:16 is time stamped at 1:56. Good grief, man.

      I truly want to cuss at you right about now for your presumptuousness but I’ll refrane.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Tedisalive
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:37pm

      @Lux and Darren

      To a Christian – The Bible is the blue print / standard / measure / or cannon to test truth and doctrine. It is clearly reliable (as a study of simple apologetics can prove). And according to the scriptures we have that are reliable and known to be trustworthy – they clearly contradict the majority of the Mormon teachings. That is why Mormons have been persecuted by Christians and communities since they started 192 years ago.

      Problems with Mormon Scriptures:

      * The Book of Mormon – countless rewrites, names changes, revisions, verse additions and deletions since it was published. Joseph Smith claimed it was perfect, without error and the fullness of the gospel. However, many essential LDS doctrines are not found in the Book. The doctrines of pre-existence of the soul, eternal progression, authority of the priesthood, baptism for the dead, celestial marriages, 3 degrees of glory, men becoming gods, plurality of gods (and more) are missing from the Book of Mormon. See LDS’s own church history publications for proof.

      * Pearl of Great Price – the so called perfect account of how Joseph received the golden tablets; again countless revisions and story changes from the original publications – changing order of events and even people involved.. see LDS’s own church history publications for proof.

      Report Post »  
    • Tedisalive
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:38pm

      Cont…

      * Book of Abraham – produced by Joseph Smith, he purchased this from a traveling mummy exhibition which was supposedly Egyptian records by Abraham. Joseph was reveled the translation by God. It also teaches a major difference from the Bible. for example – that there are countless numbers of god’s – ““The Gods organized and formed the heavens and the earth” -Abraham 4:1. The Bible is adamant over and over again that there is one God alone – ““For thus says the Lord, who created the heavens (he is God!), who formed the earth and made it (he established it; he did not create it empty, he formed it to be inhabited!): “I am the Lord, and there is no other.” – Isaiah 45:18. The BOA was later found to be common Egyptian funeral writings.

      * Doctrines and Covenants – this is where the prophets over the years have added and changed doctrine as revelation is “revealed”. Everything from secret undergarments, to caffeine restrictions, to racial undertones, to polygamy, to further teachings on the after life, baptisms, and mans ability to become gods.

      Report Post »  
    • Tedisalive
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:39pm

      Cont…

      In addition to the above, the following books are considered to spiritual truth: History of the Church / Journal of Discourses / Lectures on Faith / Assorted conference reports and collected writings of their modern prophets.

      For example – the 5th LDS President Lorenzo Snow (1840) Snow declared, “As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become.” According to LDS, eternal life is godhood. In the words of LDS Apostle Bruce McConkie, “Thus those who gain eternal life receive exaltation … They are gods.” (Mormon Doctrine, pg. 237). Some even saying they are currently, “gods in embryo”

      Mormonism is not Christian. Good people, but not Christian.

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:40pm

      @black9897
      Honestly I could barly make sense of the post you addressed to me. But with “Mormon Doctrine” the book, it was written by a man who tried to give an explanation of what the LDS faith believes on various topics but he was not correct on many things so it is not official doctrine of the church. You are correct that there is only the doctrine of God but let me ask you, what is it? There are over 20000 Christian denominations, each having different and contradicting beliefs. The scriptures say that there is one Lord, one faith, one baptism, so how is there so many denominations? Is this what Christ had in mind when He organized His church? How can contradicting beliefs all be right? Some believe baptism is necessary by immersion, some by sprinkling, some by dry baptism, some when their infants, some when they are children, some when they are adults. Some do not believe baptism is necessary. Which is correct? This is just one example. Also, do you think that all God wants us to know about him and his dealings with man throughout history is ontained on only 1590 pages? It is life eternal to know Him yet He gives us so little for that? You do have to admit that Christianity in general is confused. Why would God not give us a way to clear up that confusion? And please stop lying about worshiping Joseph. The devil works through lies. I have never nor will I ever worship Joseph, nor will any true LDS member.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:47pm

      Yo darren the echo chamber:

      You did not use scripture to disprove what I said if you had I would have stood corrected …
      AGAIN … JONAH SPOKE WHAT THE LORD TOLD HIM TO SPEAK, JONAH DID NOT SPEAK ON HIS OWN ACCORD AND THEN SAY ; THUS SATH THE LORD … big difference
      Do you get it now, or are you still so dull?

      Report Post »  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:52pm

      Black9897;

      “Only ONE book that is the word of God, that being the Bible”

      While that statement is traditional Christianity, it is not biblical Christianity. There is not part of the Bible which says, “believe only the Bible”. and as NASADO previously pointed out, the bible was not compiled until centuries after the Apostolic Era ended. Before that time the bible we have today was split into different parts and used in different parts of he Christian world. While your reponse to him that it wasn’t “voted upon” is somewhat correct, people took great care to decide what should be included in the bible and what should not be. Even today the Catholics use apocryphal scriptures and thus have several books in addition to the ones Protestant bibles usually consist of.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 2:57pm

      Yo Darren:
      If I got some of the orders of responce mixed up , my mistake, my apologies, and yes I may have been a bit presumptious. Not to make excuses, but I was going from past responces and patterns.

      Report Post »  
    • orkydorky
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 3:02pm

      See Joel’s face, always a smile, that‘s because he’s laughing his way to the bank. His main religion is money and he’ll follow that train where ever it goes.

      Report Post » orkydorky  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 3:16pm

      4Truth;

      I detailed my respose to you showing how erroneously your reply to me was. It was compeletely off base and not at all based upon your previous posts.

      When you replied to Yoey you made no mention whatsoever about the LORD doing what He wants asfter a prophecy is given. I was the one who broughtthat up using the Bible as a source. You then took what i said and claimed that was what you were saying all along and that i proved your point. That’s presumprtuous to say the least. You also denied saying exactly wha you said and that is very childish. Making a childish claim I replied to you in a childish manner. Nopt Christlike I’m sure but it is what it is.

      Don‘t worry so mch about me being welcomed into Christ’s arms but yourself. It’s a true irony that you claim I think highly of myself, reiterate it, and then think that Christ has not welcomed me but (by implication) has welcomed you.

      A job one done. You managed to deny sayinbgwha you said, took credit for my work, and then think Jesus has welcomed you but not me all in a single day’s work. Too bad you can’t take time to write your 10 posts to clear things up. Then again, when you did it the firsttime you only made things messier for yourself and so I don’t blame you for not wanting to do it again.

      I think I’m done with you for today. Take care and God bless.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • blackdawg9
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 3:17pm

      osteen is a complete fraud, just wanting to keep his name out there and sell more books.

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 3:21pm

      @ Darren And you wonder why people call Mormonism a cult. Yes, the Bible IS the word of God, the only word of God and is Biblical Christianity. I’m sorry you have been brainwashed into thinking otherwise. I know when and how the Bible was put together. Yes, exactly they did take great care. Why? Because they couldn’t have any false doctrines in there…anything that was not God’s word. Yes, it does say God’s word is the only word.

      See here: Deu 4:2 “don’t add to the word which I command you”

      And here: Psalms 119:160 “ the entirety of your word is truth.”

      Also see Rev. 22: 18-1 “ If any man shall add unto these things God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: and if any man shall take away form the words of the book of this prophecy God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

      God needs no man to “help him out” or confirm his word as truth.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:09pm

      No Darren:

      Almost ALL wrong again, which is the reason I am not making any attempt to continue.
      When I was wrong … I admitted, and right away … I don’t find it hard to do so.
      I took NOTHING from what you have said and claimed it as my own … what a joke!
      I say to you that I hope you are indeed saved out of the kindness of my heart and you butcher that, unbelivable ! If I am saved, or not, had nothing to do with what I said to you, I was not putting myself over you … you pride is damaging to reality, and you’re assumtions incorrect.
      I have NEVER denied ANYTHING I have said, just you’re understanding of it, or lack of it.
      God bless you to … but you’re an diot.

      Report Post »  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:20pm

      Look … I would tend to agree with Joel in this respect … I do think that there are Mormons who have come to a SAVING knowledge of Jesus… I disagree with him in that I do not believe that Obama is a Christian at least his Christianity is not like any I have ever seen. ( Collective salvation ) Later day saints look more like my Jesus then he does… (Obama)
      The Mormon leaders however should and I believe do know better then to continue teaching the heretical doctrines they push on those looking for genuine faith in Jesus.
      There are a lot of things however the Mormons have right like emergency preparedness and the strong family unit… but those are ways of living not doctrine. If I did not know what Mormon doctrine is just watching Mormons I know …. I would be one! PLEASE body of Christ look at the Mormon church in the way they look to the future and prepare, the importance they place on the family and the way they treat people and emulate them!
      The Mormon faith is not a Christian one but individuals in it can be just like the Catholic church who practices idolatry. The Catholic church (IMO) is not a Christian one but individuals in it can be.

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:35pm

      @Nasado
      Read the Bible it is the ONLY authoritative word of the living God. In it you will find that there is ONLY one God. We will NEVER be gods ruling planets of our own. The LDS Church has many more heretical doctrines that frankly I do not have the time to go into them…Just read and study and if you do so diligently you will EASILY find the gross inconsistencies between the BOM and the word of God … The Bible.
      Let me add this… I have found Mormons to be among the kindest most generous group of people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. It saddens me deeply the level of deception followers of the LDS faith are under.
      My statements may offend you and for that I am sorry but the truth is offensive however I hope you can hear the love I am speaking it with.
      All of you out there that call yourselves children of my God speak in love without name calling. Represent Christ well!

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:41pm

      encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:20am

      @Nasado

      The Book of Mormons has zero historical facts contained within it. Dates, places and historical figures in the old testment and new testment are backed up by sources outside of the bible, by records of other peoples by historical finds. The Book of Mormons is nothing more than the tall tale of somebody who wanted say God approves of his sleeping around.
      ————
      I am shocked you actually said something intelligent!!!!
      Now don’t let this moment slip away! While you are thinking continue to study there may be hope for you yet :)

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 4:59pm

      Black 9827;

      The word “cult doesn’t scare me. Mormonism is a cult and so is Catholicism, Presyteranism, Bapti(ism), and Judaism. The only reason people throw out that word is to make their target look dark, taboo, and deven dreadful so you prove nothing to me by using the word yourself.

      please show me where the Bible says “only believe the Bible”. Yes, there are passages which instruct the reader not to add to “these words” As you pointed out, there’s one in Deuteronomy and another in Revelation. How can there be two if they both mean that after the words are written, none can be “added”? The answer is that those passages are not what you’re purportingthem to be. In fact, as pointed out to you earlier by me and by NASADO, the Book of Deuternomy and Revelations were not together in one book until about the 4th century AD. I fact the word “bible” means a collection of books and it received that name because people took time to collect the scattered writings ofthe prophets and apostles and placed them under on collection. So it is near impossible for not “add” to these words meaning nothing can come after the Bible. And your bible is most likely different than the Catholic Bible as your most like lacks the apochryphal or “deuterocanical” books the Catholic Bible includes. So either your bible takes away from theirs or theirs adds to yours according to your logic.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:00pm

      Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:54am
      You said…
      “….We regard the president of the church, his counselors, and the apostles as “prophets, seers, and revelators”. Nobody ever said that prophets were perfect infallible men, there was only one perfect person on this planet. Prophets were allowed to have their own opinions on things that aren’t regarded as official doctrine of the church. If you are going to hold modern day prophets to that standard, be sure to hold the prophets of old to that same standard….”
      ——-
      To answer this in the only way possible you need to know…. THEY WERE HELD TO THIS STANDARD!!!!!! If a biblical prophet EVER gave a word that was shown to be false he or she was taken out of the city and STONED TO DEATH!!!!
      If I say … “God says….” and he did not say it let’s just say you would not want to be me.
      If Joseph smith said ANYTHING in the BOM that is false he is a false prophet and his words need to be discarded as HERESY!!!! It is not possible for God to lie or be wrong on a subject so when a man says … Thus says the Lord he had better be right and we are instructed to disregard and excommunicate him if it does not happen. God takes his word seriously!!!! The BOM is antithetical to God breathed scripture.

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:15pm

      @candcantiques
      Sorry hippy but all roads do NOT lead to God. In the OT were it is talking about not letting a razor touch a mans face or cutting the hair it was talking about a special oath taken before God. Read the story of Sampson.
      There is ONLY ONE WAY TO GOD and that way is none other then Jesus the Christ the ONLY son of the living GOD!
      Oh BTW when it talks about “nature” he was talking about our own NATURAL conscience.
      Also it is not possible to study or understand the Bible without understanding also the culture in witch it was written. Context always matters.

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:24pm

      @ Darren Wasn’t meant to. I threw that word out there because if you’re following some guy who wrote some book (Mr. Smith) that would be a cult.
      Why would that even be a question? Is God’s word not enough? By its very nature the Bible (God’s word) IS the only thing to believe in. God says his word was there before time began, and it’s eternal, and that he is the way, the truth, and the life. You’re saying God’s Holy word is just not enough. Yep, you did point that out. You do understand though God wasn’t writing these books to be kept scattered, why else write all of them? He had a purpose in all of this. Catholics have a very twisted view of God’s word as well. “My Bible” lacks nothing. My Bible is the Word of God.
      Here is a video of some Mormons getting owned by a Christian preaching the Truth.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTfNPJ8KNmU

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:28pm

      @YellowFin
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:34pm
      You said…
      “….Jesus and Satan are brothers. > Answer – The angel who became Satan was created after the first-born Son (Jesus) was created….”
      ———–
      The rest of your answers in your posts are just a ridiculous all you said was “wrong” you did not give even a little evidence as to why they were wrong.
      Jesus was not “created” He is the CREATOR! Just read John1:1-11 … that is read the book in the BIBLE that is the gospel of John. This is only one example out of many in the BIBLE that says Jesus was not created He is the Creator. Jesus is God who became a man. NOT a man who became a god!!!!!

      Report Post » Favored93  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:33pm

      Yo Darren:

      Last shot…I have said that a true prophet is one whom speaks the very words of God as instructed by God to speak. If someone would claim to be doing this and prophesy incorrectly that person would be considered a false prophet. You bring up the story of Jonah .. why you left off the first three verses I do not know, it seems suspect, but I will not do to you what you do to me and tell you yourself.
      Jonah did as God instucted which is the definition of a prophet … Jonah DID NOT make a false prophesy. I have just VERY SIMPLY stated what I have said from the get go, and according to what scripture say’s.
      Do you understand the grace and mercy of God… the story of Jonah is about that. God gave Nineveh a second chance … God gave Jonah a second chance … God gives us a second chance …God would like to give America a second chance …. what is it about what I have said here that you do not understand or disagree with.
      You don’t have to respond if you do not want to … just thought I’d give a second chance. If you do respond please DO NOT respond to anything other then what I have addresed in this post ….

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:38pm

      @ NASADO What was so hard to understand? Maybe the Truth (God’s one and only Word is hard to understand for you) “For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict” Luke 21:15. Maybe that’s why.

      The Bible. Most of these “contradictions” are very small and really don’t even matter. Some of the Humans that have split, was due to wanting to follow in their own sinful ways because they didn’t’ like the truth.
      Baptism is easy. It’s an act showing your fellow Christians the choice you have made. You can accept Christ and go to heaven without ever being baptized. It’s also clear from the Bible it must be a choice, dunking babies under water does nothing but give them a bath. God gave us general revelation and special revelation. The Bible is the only word of God, both now and forever. You, like DARREN are implying that God’s word is not enough. It’s not so little, it may not answer every single question but everything you need is in there. The problem is people take clear scripture and place their wants above what it actually says.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:55pm

      Yo Black9897:

      I appreciate what you say ( not that I am anybody)…you keep it simple, honest and direct, and most importantly truthful to scripture … this willingness to not recgonize this simplicty (saved or not) can be baffling … peace

      Report Post »  
    • canadianlady
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:59pm

      Pastorrick: All I have to read is the first line of your spiel, and I know you’re just another Mormon hater. I’ll pray for you.

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 6:27pm

      Yo 4TRUTH2ALL

      Thank you. I appreciate you as well man. You‘re putting God’s words into practice which means you’re on the Solid Rock and not on sinking sand (Matt. 7:25-26). As long as you stand on Christ the Rock you will stand strong.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • symphonic
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 6:35pm

      I like Joel. He adheres to Jesus’ teaching JUDGE NOT and a lot of people here need to follow his example. They are judging the hearts of others, and they do not have any Godly right to do that. Repent.

      Report Post » symphonic  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 7:55pm

      Black 9827;

      I’ll take your word for it regarding your use of the word “cult” but frankly you’re not doing yourself any favors with your last post to me.

      “I threw that word out there because if you’re following some guy who wrote some book (Mr. Smith) that would be a cult.”

      So I guess you would not have followed Moses in ancient times? You know, that man who ‘wrote some book’? And if you did you’d be in a cult? After all that moses guy turned water into blood and turned a staff into a snake when snakes at that time symbolized Satan like in the Garden and that’s the creature sent to afflict his people and comparing those flying serpents as God. Moses also killed an Egyptian who was, you know, just doing his job. Yeah, throw out the cult terminology and you just may scare someone.

      “Is God’s word not enough?”

      Absolutely, and that’s why the Book of Mormon exists. Itconfirms the veracity of the Bible and testifies to all that Jesus is the Son of God.

      “You’re saying God’s Holy word is just not enough. Yep, you did point that out.”

      When did I point that out? That’s a weird thing to say.

      “You do understand though God wasn’t writing these books to be kept scattered, why else write all of them?”

      Yet they were scattered and some groups followed some of the writings and rejected the others while other groups followed other writings while rejecting still others. That’s simply the plain truth regarding the compilation of the Holy Bibl

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 7:57pm

      Yo Black9897:
      I watched the video of the guys in the parking lot … he was a little “quick”, but he did speak the truth, and that did shut them down … being a “white guy” his pointing that out was not necessary. I take it you are black and I got alot of black friends … I don’t usually refer to their skin color at all .. they are my brothers and sisters in Christ , ain’t nothin needs to be said after that, even if there not. I hate the color thing.

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:02pm

      Black9827;

      Do you believe in the holy Trinity? If so you also believe that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of the “same substance”, “immaterial”, and one numeric being in three divine persons each person God but not three gods but one [numeric] God.

      Could you show me where in the Bible any of this is mentioned? Try as I may I fail to find “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, “immaterial”, and “three persons of the same God”. After you locate the the biblical teachings on these terminologies then you may tell me how the Book of Mormon “adds” to the Bible.

      Returning a bit to your last post addressed to me, I follow the holy spirit which has manifested to me that Joseph Smith wasa true prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is God’s true word, that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is Chrit’s true church restored upon the earth and that we have living prophets today. I follow the promptings ofthe Spirit which has lead me to these very conclusions.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Swordmaiden
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:09pm

      Okay, starting with PastorRick -What does The Lord say about “He that Loveth and Maketh a Lie”? Had you not witnessed that you are a former “mormon”?, I might excuse this absurdity as ignorance, however, as a Member of The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints, you would surely have known:
      1-That there are many tangible proofs of The Book Of Mormon and (One easy one the figure at the Smithsonian holding the Ten Commandments written in an ancient Hebrew Dialect known to be pre-Columbian – actually, Glenn Beck showed it when defending the Native Americans)
      2-That though they DO exist, we Never “prove” the veracity of that Sacred Book, containing so many Words of Christ, by any way other than Confirmation by The Holy Ghost, i.e. The Holy Spirit
      The reason then to point to the growth of the Church is that no one is to join unless they receive Confirmation by The Holy Spirit Of Truth that the words contained in The Book Of Mormon Are True.
      Those of you who have taken upon yourselves to speak for Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior, who gave you permission to speak for Him?
      Are you so ****-sure that you are willing to risk your Immortal Soul by persecuting people who not only Say they are His, and of course, Christians, but actually LIVE IT, doing their best to show Love, Brotherhood, Compassion, and Serve and give aid to even those who hate, defame,and persecute them simply because they are Brothers or Sisters in need? Will your hatred put Obama in again-

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:18pm

      Tedisalive;

      The Bible is also cosidered as reliable and is considered a “standard work” in official LDS doctrine. A “standard work” is such that one may measure teaching up to the standard to help judge its validity.

      Here’s some good “LDS” doctrine: “460 The Word became flesh to make us ”partakers of the divine nature”:78 “For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.“79 ”For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.“80 ”The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.“81”

      OK, notice I quoted ‘“LDS”’. That‘s because ths is not from any LDS source but from the Catechism of the Catholic Church yet it’s remarkably similar to Lorenzo Snow’s statement, no? Paragraph 460 of the Catecism quotes Irenaeus and St. Athanasius respectively. These two early Christian fathers both believed in man’s deification through the Son. Yes, the catholic Church will offer a different interpretation of these statements than the LDS would but they are direct quotes from two of the early Christian fathers and show exactly what they believe. That through the Son man may become God as a “son of God”. Exactly what the LDS believe. (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:27pm

      (con’t);

      The LDS believe that man may become like God (not equal to) through the Son. This is precisely whatSt. Athanasius and Iraenus taught and based their conviction on biblical scripture. The LDS believe man may become God asa son of God and thus a “joint heir” with Christ and become one with the Father *as* Jesus is one with the Father.

      The book of Mormon has many rewrtites. The vast majority are updating the grammar and some spelling errors from the press. The Book of Mormon speaks an odd English. ” 4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with dreal intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.” from Moroni 10 used to say, “and he will manifest the truth of it unto you. That’s quirky English but actually perfect Hebrew grammar. If you examine Joseph Smith‘s person writings you’ll find no such grammar structure yet he wrote the Book of Mormon in perfect Hebrew grammatical structure. I do not find trhis coincidental.

      Yes, there are some name changes and I find them of little to no consequence. If you want to bring up anything specific to talk about, please do so. (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:39pm

      (con’t);

      The Pearl of Great Price is an absolutely wonderful and insightful book. It speaks ofthe cretion, the eternal nature of spirit, Abrahamic cosmology, and frankly more and more discoveries authenticate its story. this includes the Book of Abraham. The four sons of Horus (I think that’s the Egyptian god Egyptologists identified in the facesimile) were the four corners ofthe earth. It turns out Joseph Smith was right. It was recently discovered that these four sons were used anciently to identify the four corners of the earth. There was also the discovery of a city Ur which, unlike the one identified in Iraq, IS within the influence of ancient Egyptians and thus corroborates the Book of Abraham’s claims of Abraham to be sacrificed by the pagans. Also, yes, there are similarities between the facsimilies and Egyptian funerery texts but there’s enough uniqueness in them to allow them to stand on their own. There’s great information on this issue. Like the Book of Mormon, if there is anything specific, please bring it up.

      “The Bible is adamant over and over again that there is one God alone’

      No, it’s not actually. “Alone” be translated as “mono” in Greek and “yachid” in Hebrew. Two words which mean “one” numerically yet also in unity are “hen” in Greek and “echad” in Hebrew. (con’t)

      There’s ots of great information

      Report Post » Darren  
    • YellowFin
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 8:59pm

      favored93, you said “Jesus was not “created” He is the CREATOR!”

      I can see why you said that as he is a creator just as Colossians 1:15-20 says: He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

      Can you see that he was given that role by his Father Jehovah and as such he was a co-creator along side of our Almighty God. Do you remember what God said in Genesis 1:26 ?

      A Father and Son, working together.

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:22pm

      Tedisalive (con’t);

      “The Bible is adamant over and over again that there is one God alone ‘

      That is incorrect. When describing the oness of the Father and the Son, it is always rendered in “echad” or “hen”, which also allows a oness “in unity”; not explicitly numerically. The oness of the Godhead is NEVER described using “yachid” or “mono”. you’ll find the Greek “mono in the following passage found in John 17:3 where Jesus prays to the Father. ” And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.” My question is that if the Father and Son are the first and second persons of God then why is the Father the ‘only true God’? Why ignore the second two persons of the Godhead? In other words, how does this passage hold up the concept of the Holy Trinity if the Father is the ‘only’ (“Mono” or “alone”) ‘true God’? This has no problem whatsoever in LDS theology but I find it difficult to apply this to the Trinity. In the end, there is no explicit declarative in the Hebrew or Greek biblical texts that there is ony God alone.

      (con’t)

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:25pm

      (con’t);

      You also need ot apply the following passage portion from the Book of Mormon when you assert what the Mormons believe of the three divine beings, “and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.” (Alma 11:44).

      Your description of the Doctrine and Covenants is way too simplistic. Revelation is given line upon line and I think it has always been that way. If you take issue with the D&C for having revelation “added” over time then why not the Bible too? It’s a silly argument to make.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:50pm

      Moses was a follower of God. He did miracles in the name of the one True God, “I AM that I AM”
      The Bible mentions nothing of anything “confirming” it, so yes, Mormonism is man coming up with his own ways. God’s word says different. The Bible needs no confirmation from anything man wrote. You can’t back up the book of Mormon with the Bible and since the Bible IS God’s word (the only word) the book of Mormon is false, a book written by a man, not God. So you and the rest of Mormons believe in a false doctrine.
      The true scriptures were collected and thus we got the Bible.
      The Bible does not mention the word “trinity” however, the father (God) , the son (jesus) and the holy spirit are mentioned. “For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” Col. 2:9. Just because they did not use the word “trinity” doesn’t mean I don’t use my brain and understand what’s being said. I understand the concept, which is what the trinity is. God, son, holy spirit. The word “dinosaur” isn’t used in the Bible either, yet other words are used to describe them.
      Really, the holy spirit huh. How/what has the holy spirit told you this? I’ve never read anything in the Bible about Smith. You and Smith have some special knowledge that the rest of us don’t? This is exactly why it’s false teachings. Simply saying “the holy spirit told me this” and not even using the Bible? Cont——–

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    • black9897
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:50pm

      You can’t prove this, so it’s simply you and smith (some guys, not God) telling everyone LDS is the true church?
      “Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” John 4:1. Testing what you said against God’s word, what you say does not hold up.
      “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you” John 14:26. You are certainly not in his name. You may fool others, but I stand on the truth of God’s word.

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    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:10pm

      The Holy Spirit testifies to me that (sorry) Joseph Smith is a false prophet. The Book of Morman has nothing to do with God’s Word, that ANYONE who repents and calls apon the name of Christ in sincerity is considered by Christ as forgiven and a saint …early days or latter days. The “church” is not saved, the body of Christ is (His bride), no denomination needed. The foundation of the prophets and Apostles has been completed, with Jesus as the chief cornerstone, and anyone that tries to build apon this is not of Christ, and anyone that is lead to believe this is being deceived and in danger of losing their eternal soul ….and since God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked ,what foolishness it would be for me to do so. So, everything written on this post is out of love and concern, and is verifiable through the 66 books of scripture. Jesus don’t need nobody tellin what has already been told.

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    • snooop1e
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:41pm

      The emergent church (which includes an evolving Evangelicalism) posits that there are really only 2 essentials for salvation 1. Believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God and 2. Accept Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior. Everything else is off the table and not really open for discussion. Anything to do with Orthopraxy or Orthodoxy is just bickering and not “Christian” Lately I have noticed when engaging Evangelicals/Protestants that they aren’t as committed to “Sola-Scriptura” as they have been in the past, the sense I get is that nobody can really know the whole truth so it is better to just talk about what we agree on. To me that seems like a subtle slide into Relativism aka Universalism. Basically the thinking is that there is no way to really know objective truth so the church is no longer just “mystical” but is “invisible” which raises the question, if the truth is contained in an invisible church how can anyone know with any certainty what the truth is? According to the emerging church belief in Jesus and confessing with your mouth is all that is necessary and everything else will be worked out on judgment day. Those complicated 10 Commandments and all of the theological discussions on what Christians should and shouldn’t do are just distractions for those who are already saved. The Bible is a fallible list of infallible books and we are all saved by faith alone and nothing we do or don’t do can ever change that, ahh utopia on earth….

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:11pm

      Black 9827;

      “Moses was a follower of God. He did miracles in the name of the one True God,”

      Joseph Smirh did too. But Moses wrote a book. Why follow him? You’ll folow him from the miracles you see and not because ofthe holy Spirit manifestingto you personally that he wasa true prophet of God? Why are you so quick, as strangely many Evangelicalbased anti-Mormons are, to reject the third person of the Godhead? I truly do not understand how professed Christians move away from the Spirit when talking siritual matters.

      “The Bible mentions nothing of anything “confirming” it, so yes, Mormonism is man coming up with his own ways. ”

      WHAT???

      “20 And Saul sent messengers to take David: and when they saw the company of the prophets prophesying, and Samuel standing as appointed over them, the Spirit of God was upon the messengers of Saul, and they also prophesied.” (1 Samuel 19:20)

      That’s been the process of prophets of God forever.

      ” 3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.” (1 Corinthians 12:3). If that is not a confirmation of God’s truth than nothing is.

      (con’t)

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    • Ded-Bred
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:14pm

      Yes, such a shame to see this…madness! Knew it was coming when he admitted a few years ago he didn’t believe hell existed. Then last month he said he believes practicing homosexuals will go to heaven. Now he claims Obama is Christian? And Mormons are Christians? Well, Osteen seems to be more of a motivational speaker than mouth of God.. Nobody can be a God pleaser and a man pleaser. Mormons are NOT Christians,nor is anyone raised as Muslim, then Wiccan, then by a militant racist such as Jeremiah Wright.
      “From the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks.” The horrible reality isn’t Osteen, Obama or Romney choosing these paths to hell. It’s the many who are being led astray by the false teachings. And I don‘t know that gays won’t go to heaven if still practicing ‘gayness’, same as if any other sin-(like being gunned down by cops as you’re robbing a bank). But I‘d never tell someone that they won’t go to hell, or there is no hell? I don’t have a heaven or a hell to put anyone in. And I believe the Holy Bible is 100% inspired by God. If you read this, please consider studying for yourself.

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:21pm

      (con’t);

      “You can’t back up the book of Mormon with the Bible ”

      Sure you can. The Book of Mormon is the stick of Ephraim Ezekiel spoke of. It is the truth sprung forth from the ground Psalms speaks of as wel as the familiar spirit and the bopok a learned man could not read for it wassealed. You also have direct access to the Book of Mormon. You may rad it and ask the Father inthe name of the Son if it’s true. By the power ofthe holy Spirit its truth would be made known unto you if you do so sincerely and with real intent.

      “The true scriptures were collected and thus we got the Bible.”

      Agreed.

      ““For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.””

      Exactly! It mentions “Godhead” the term LDS prefers to use. “Godhead” is biblical, “Holy Trinity” is not. How is proclaiming “Holy Trinity” not “adding” to the Bible?

      “I understand the concept, which is what the trinity is. God, son, holy spirit.’

      Correct. In the Holy Trinity the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one God. The Book of Mormon even says so for that book confirms the truthfulness of the Bible. In this sense, Mormons are very much “trinitarians” inthe pure meaning of the word which means more or less a “unit of three”. However, declaring the three as numercially one in not biblical and in factthere’s abundant passages which make more sense viewing the Father and the Son as separate beings than two person yet one being.

      (con’t)

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:31pm

      (con’t)

      “I’ve never read anything in the Bible about Smith. ‘

      I’d have to agree but with the qualifier that you probably never eard of Peter, James, and John before the New Testament. Why would prophets need to be foretold in the Bible? at least not directly?

      “1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord of hosts.” (Malachi 3) That was a prophecy of the Second Coming of the lord. Joseph Smith came as the Lord‘s messenger and restored Christ’s Church on earth including the temple and covenants. Jews today await Elias. the LDS say he’s come. Jesus said the following, “11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.” (Mathew 17). The purpose of Elias was to ‘restore all things’. Why would ‘all things’ need to be restored unless some things were lost? (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:37pm

      “13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said: 14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi—testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come— 15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse— 16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.” (Doctrine and covenants 110)

      Elijah (Elias in the old Testament) came and restored keys needed to usher in the coming of the Lord. This includes sealing families together forever. This was most definitely a biblical teaching (and I’m familiar of the Saducees and marriage and am more than happy to address that if you would like to, Black9827) and it is most definitely found in extant writings among the early Christian fathers. This waspart of the “restitution of all things” Peter spoke of in Acts 3.

      (con’t)

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:47pm

      (con’t);

      ““Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world” John 4:1. ‘

      Agreed. Don‘t believe ’every spirit’. I certainly do not. There are false spirit but I made no mention of “every spirit”, did I? I said focused directly on the Spirit of God. “26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:” (John 15). Jesus did not promise us the Bible, did He? He did not promise us man’s science neither. Jesus promised us something far, far greater than either of these fallible things (man’s interpretatin ofthe Bible most definitely makes it fallible). jesus promised us the Second Comforter or the Holy Ghost. From the Fathert and by the Son we have this great and eternal guiding light. And if this passage does not also show how the role of the Spirit is to confirm eternal truth than truly nothing can or will. It is *only* by the holy Spirit by which man may come ot know the “only true God” who is the Father and of His Son (John 17:3). When one reads the Bible he *must* be edified and enlightend by the Holy Spirit to truly learn of it. Same goes with the Book of Mormon. It stands as God’s true word with the Bible and brings souls to Christ.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 8:30am

      Yo

      I can understand how someone could mis-apply scripture . We all probably do that in the learning process. But to apply certain aspects of scripture to the person of Joseph Smith is at the least a lack of understanding the TRUE meaning. (example: stick of Ephraim). If someone is taught this convincingly and puts their church in a higher place and over others I can understand the difficulty that admitting that what has been taught is incorrect.
      Restore – also renew, does not usually mean lost it is to put back as it was …
      Can a LDS be a born again saved person …I believe so … but it will have nothing to do with Joseph Smith and his teaching ….

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    • black9897
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 10:23am

      @DARREN

      That’s right, he did promise us the Holy Ghost. It’s to confirm God’s word, and guide us. Not add to it by a guy who thinks he’s a prophet. You’re on sinking sand, that’s why the book of mormon fails and is not passing the test. You’re taking verses of the Bible and saying “look, this is about smith” By saying God’s word needs help you’re calling His everlasting Word weak and the book of Mormon has more virtue than God’s own words. “Your eternal word, O LORD, stands firm in heaven” ps 119:89 The Bible is God’s finished written work.

      2 cor. 11:3-6
      “But I am afraid that your minds will be led away from your true and pure following of Christ just as Eve was tricked by the snake with his evil ways.4 You are very patient with anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus from the one we preached. You are very willing to accept a spirit or gospel that is different from the Spirit and Good News you received from us.”

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 11:02am

      4Truth;

      The day‘s over so I don’t mind dialoguing with you except that this thread is now off the front page and by and large I do not return to threads that leave The Blaze’s front page So this and perhaps one, maybe two more posts wil be the last to you.

      “But to apply certain aspects of scripture to the person of Joseph Smith is at the least a lack of understanding the TRUE meaning. (example: stick of Ephraim). ”

      In Babylon “sticks” were used to write on. It is perfectly reasonable anto apply the stick of Judah to mean the scrolls the Jews kept and the stick of Ephraim to mean the Book of Mormon. That at some point in time both will become available to the world to teach the everlasting gospel. Together these writings make a powerful and undeniable testimony of Jesus Christ and stand of witnesses that God has spoken to man on earth. I realize you may not interpret the same passages the same way I do. My main point regarding the passages referred to is that you can indeed apply te Bible to the Book of Mormon and of a restoration of Christ’s gospel on the earth.

      “If someone is taught this convincingly and puts their church in a higher place and over others I can understand the difficulty that admitting that what has been taught is incorrect.”

      Being pompous and presumptuous has been what you have done here, not me.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 11:10am

      (con’t);

      “Restore – also renew, does not usually mean lost it is to put back as it was …”

      First off, you’re exactly correct in that “restore” does mean to put back as it once was. But the need to do so naturally means that something became different than it once was. “Remew” does not necessarily mean something became lost or changed. It simply means “to do again”. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints is not somethingto “do again” but to restore something as it once was. That is, that Jesus Christ gides anddirects aostles and prophets once more on earth and that He sets up how to come unto Him and become a “joint-heir” with Him and thus become one with the Father.

      “Can a LDS be a born again saved person …I believe so … but it will have nothing to do with Joseph Smith and his teaching ….”

      Since Mormons believe it is through Jesus Christ to be saved we are in agreement. However, there is an indirect correlation withthe prophets and apostles (all of them) in salvation for if they had chosen not to do what tey did in God’s name then we would not have thre precious truths we do today.

      Take care and God bless.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 11:27am

      Black 9827;

      “Because Moses is in the Bible. That’s the point. Anything outside the Bible’s teachings is false. ”

      Thiis is based soley on presumption. Nowherei n the Bible does it say that anything outside the bible is false. Nor can you find anything in the Book of mormon which is “outside” the Bible. Not even Christ visiting the Americas.

      “You’re claiming some guy has special information “revealed to him”.”

      Yes. Just like noah had “special information” revealed to him and Moses to him, Isaiah to him, etc. In each case the prphets teaches to man what is revealed to them an then man is free to choose wha to do with that “special information” once exposed to it. They may reject it or embrace it. In the latter they *will* feel spiritually edified. Thus the “special information” Joseph Smith received has been shared and it is our chjoice what to do with it. In all cases, it is the holy Spirit which testifies the truthfulness of of any prophet’s words.

      “What he speaks and you speak doesn’t hold up to the test of God’s word.”

      It actually holds up quite well. Far more than you may think.

      “That’s weird, I’ve never seen anything in the Bible about a book of Mormon. Or about Smith.”

      Why are you repeating what you’ve already said? Do you expect a different response? I shared with you biblical passages which absolutely apply to the Book of Mormon.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 11:37am

      (con’t);

      “The Bible testifies to God, so why would I need the book of Mormon?”

      Because they both testifiy of the divinity of Jesus Christ and both will bring you closer to Christ.

      Now, why are you so vehemently “only the Bible” in your arguments? Is that because you read the Bible and the Bible told you so or because you read the bible and the Holy Spirit told you so?

      “Using a different word isn’t adding. It’s called a synonym.”

      If that were the case then the Book of Mormon is synomymous with the Bible. Declaring the “Holy Trinity” which is directly connected with “same substance”, “immaterial”, and “three person yet one God” are NOT BIBLICAL. Why is it so strange to you that you do not read “Joseph Smith” or “Book of Mormon” in the Bible yet “Holy Trinity”, “same substance”, and “three persons yet one God” which you do not “read in the Bible” not come across as strange? That’s strange in and of itself.

      “No, I can’t explain this, I don’t believe any human can really understand it.”

      The main reason you cannot explain it is because it’s not biblical at all!!! Neither is God “without parts or passion”. I can show you several passages with God describes with parts and passion and ancient Isreal most indeed viewed God as a man but exalted and perfected. This was all lost over time but we are blesse that these pure and precious teachings of truth have been restored.

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 11:55am

      (con’t);

      “Doesn’t matter, it’s in the Bible. So it’s truth.”

      Again, because the bible says it to you or the Holy Spirit says it to you after readingthe Bible. The Bible is nothing but words without the testimony of the Holy Spirit.

      “Mal. Is not referring to today. It was talking about John the Baptist.”

      Here are verses 5-6 of Malachi 4, “5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord: 6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.” This is EACTLY what happened in the Kirtland temple to Joseph Smith as recorded in D&C 110. John the Baptist did not ‘turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers’. Nor did John the Baptist come in the ‘great and dreadful day’ of the lord. The said ‘greqt and dreadful’ day is Christ’s Second coming, not His first. The First He came and set up His gospel He being the chief cornerstone and built upon His apostles. The ‘great and dreadful day’ is the Lord’s second coming when the earth will be cleansed by fire and man will be prepared for the final judgement. ‘Great and dreadful day’ is thusly synomynous with the Second Coming.

      (con’t)

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    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 12:25pm

      (con’t);

      “You’re taking verses of the Bible and saying “look, this is about smith” By saying God’s word needs help you’re calling His everlasting Word weak and the book of Mormon has more virtue than God’s own words”

      That’s a very dilluted and self-interpred view of what I’ve said and what I do say. I’m saying tha god has revealed His word to man and man must share it to the world. Period. I’ve said absolutelty nothing that the Book of Mormon is ;more virtuous than ‘Gods’s own words’. I‘m saying they are part of God’s own words and it is a joy to know them and embrace them.

      “Your eternal word, O LORD, stands firm in heaven” ps 119:89 The Bible is God’s finished written work.”

      I agree firmly with Psalms 119:89 and it is precisely why I share the Book of Mormon. You‘re again only assuming that the bible is the only source of God’s word for the Bible does not say “only the Bible” is God’s word.

      “You are very patient with anyone who comes to you and preaches a different Jesus from the one we preached. You are very willing to accept a spirit or gospel that is different from the Spirit and Good News you received from us”

      The Book of mormon preaches tha Jesus is the Christ, the very Son of God who came down and took upon Himself “a tabernacle of clay” and paid for the sins of the world. That He died and was resurrected the third day. How is this a ‘different Jesus’? It is not in any way

      (con’t)

      Report Post » Darren  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 12:32pm

      ;

      Placing attention to the youtube vidoe you linked where Christians shut down the LDs missionaries, if it is the video I’m thinking of, the Christians were factually wrong. The peope did crucify Jesus. Whie the romans didi the dirty work under Pilate’s orders, it was the crowds which demanded Jesus be crucified. The LSD missionaries‘ mistake was to remain there trying to argue the Christian group’s points. Once the group expressed no interest in their message, then thank them for their time, let them know they are always welcome to join the Mormons for worship, and then move on. That’s what I did no my mission.

      Anyhow. Take care and God bless, Black9827. I‘m sure we’ll bump into each other again.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 12:41pm

      @ DARREN
      So if God says his word is forever, since the very beginning, why do you think there is more? Yes, it does say it in the Bible. I’ve already told you this. It’s your word against God’s, I’ll go with God.
      They are mentioned in the Bible. Smith is not. You cannot, nor have not proved Smith is telling the truth. He contradicts the Bible. It has not held up at all.
      You shared no such thing. How you think those apply to the book of Mormon is exactly the lies the devil has you believing. You have not, nor cannot give anything from the Bible that backs up the book of mromon.

      The Bible is the only thing that does testify. Everything in the Bible is all you need, and nowhere in it does it say we need another book.

      Oh, idk, because it’s God’s word…that’s why I’m “only the Bible.” The Bible is God’s word, so if God’s word tells me so, then that’s all I need. You seem to need more than God’s word.
      Yes, they are biblical. The book of Mormon contradicts the Bible and is adding to, when the Bible is the complete word of God. Trinity means 3. God, son, holy spirit. Godhead. Same thing.

      So you can explain how there is one God yet three persons? There are biblical teachings that cannot be explained by man…why? Because we are man. Does not mean it’s not Biblical.

      cont…..—-

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 12:53pm

      That makes no sense. If God, the creator of the universe gave me HIS Word (the Bible), why is that not enough? Why would you say “make sure the Holy Spirit tells you” You’re saying it’s God’s word, yet make sure God tells you it’s his word?

      Actually that is talking about John the Baptist. Smith got his stuff from the “angel of light” a.k.a satan. So he could deceive man and stray him from the real Truth. “The dreadful day….”This refers to the times of vengeance upon the Jews, from the death of Christ to the final desolation of the city and temple, and by accommodation, to the end of the world. That proves nothing about Smith being right.

      God gave us the Bible which testifies to Jesus and God. “Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path” Exactly, and the Bible is Truth, nothing else!
      Ok. And Smith has failed. “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves.”

      “And The Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in My Name; I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.” (Jeremiah 14:14

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 1:05pm

      What? So if you think the Bible needs help that’s exactly what you’re saying. The Bible never mentions the book of Mormon being a part of God’s word.
      Well by that I could believe in the Koran also, and anything else I wanted. I already gave you verses that confirm this is the ONLY Word of God. Not that you should need verses, it’s self-evident. There are more out there.

      That’s great. So again..why would I ever need that if it’s supposedly saying what the Bible says? That’s because while it may say some of the same things, it’s still false teachings given by a mere MAN that had “visions.” Which do not hold up to the Bible. You can twist verse and make them try and say anything you want. But God’s word was there in the beginning, both now and forever.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Darren
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 1:58pm

      Black9827;

      I rarely return to a thread that’s moved off the front page but I just did a little looking into Elijah (“Elias” in Greek) and I’d like to share with you Mathew 17:10-11 and a good commentary on that passage, As you already posted, the pasage says, “And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.”

      Here’s the commentary: “When He says Matthew 17:11, “Elias truly shall first come and restore all things,” He implies a coming of Elijah, other than that of John the Immerser, since he was already martyred, and all things were not yet restored. This must also be the fullest fulfillment. “For the great and terrible Day of the Lord” is the Day of Judgment, of which all earthly judgments, however desolating, (as the destruction of Jerusalem) are but shadows and earnests. Before our Lord’s coming all things looked on to His first coming, and, since that coming, all looks on to the second, which is the completion of the first and of all things in time.”

      I find this commentary making some really good points.

      http://bible.cc/malachi/4-5.htm

      Take care and God bless.

      Report Post » Darren  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 27, 2012 at 2:28pm

      Yo Darren:
      If I have come across as pompous my apologies, not my intent. However, if I am you are at the least equally so. You have even tried to tell me my own thinking on another thread and , I believe 4 times I corrected you. I don’t know if you ever got it you never did respond. I apologized once already for getting some of you’re responces out of order and now again for JUST the possibility of comming across as such. Yet, I say to you that I hope you get ionto heaven (even if I would not) and you condemn me for it! I bring this to you’re attention, and not a word from you. You need to go look in the mirror.
      Having said that I asked you a question concerning our point of contention. See my post on 4/26 5:33pm … answer those questions please … nothing else. If you diagree please provide scripture that say’s otherwise.
      Also, in the same vain, you say that LDS are prophetic. What do you mean, and do you understand the difference between an OT prophet and the gift of prophecy mentioned in the NT, and does one have to be LDS to be such.
      Also you say the Holy Spirit has lead you to the truth of Smith, I say that the Spirit has done the opposite – you’re thoughts
      I am working 15 hr days today and tomorrow and will follow a couple of posts as I can … if you are going to name call … don’t bother. In all due respect just respond to the questions, and do not bring anything else into the equation. If I had more time I would respond biblicly to you’re other belie

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:26pm

      “The Book of Mormon’s quite simple to refute”? Really? For the past 182 years, some of the best and brightest students and scholars of the world have been trying to prove from the Bible that the Book of Mormon is false, but not one of them has been able to prove that anything he (Joseph Smith Jr.) wrote was not in strict harmony with the scriptures. So 4truth and all you other naysayers have you found something they missed? No, I didn’t think so.

      I ask you … to undertake to write a story on the ancient inhabitants of America. Write as he did without any source of material. Include in your story 54 chapters dealing with wars, 21 historical chapters, 55 chapters on visions and prophecies, and, remember, when you begin to write on visions and prophecies you must have your record agree meticulously with the Bible. You write 71 chapters on doctrine and exhortation, and, here too, you must check every statement with the scriptures or you will be proven to be a fraud. You must write 21 chapters on the ministry of Christ, and everything you claim He said and did and every testimony you write in your book about Him must agree absolutely with the New Testament.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:27pm

      Cont…

      I ask you, would you like to undertake such a task? I would suggest to you too that you must employ figures of speech, similes, metaphors, narrations, exposition, description, oratory, epic, lyric, logic, and parables. Undertake that, will you? I ask you to remember that the man that translated the Book of Mormon was a young man who hadn’t had the opportunity of schooling that you have had, and yet he dictated that book in just over two months and made very few, if any, corrections.

      Tad R. Callister stated quite eloquently in his book, The Infinite Atonement that: “Almost two thousand years of Bible interpretations and varied conclusions arrived at by many in the Christian world should be ample evidence of the need for additional scriptural insight.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:28pm

      Cont…

      For many, the beautiful and deep doctrine of the Atonement is summarily dismissed and placed on the back shelf with the facile response, “Just believe and be saved.” Why such an approach? Perhaps Huge Nibley best articulates the reason:
      “So cool has been the reception of the message [of the Atonement] that through the centuries, while heated controversy and debate have raged over evolution, atheism, the sacraments, the Trinity, authority, predestination, faith and works, and so on, there has been no argument or discussion at all about the meaning of the Atonement. Why were there no debates or pronouncements in the synods? People either do not care enough or do not know enough even to argue about it. For the doctrine of the Atonement is far too complicated to have the appeal of a world religion.”

      Satan has been successful in diverting much of the Christian world’s attention from the one doctrine that can save us, the Atonement of Jesus Christ, to the ancillary doctrines that have meaning only because they draw their sustenance from this redeeming event. Like a skilled magician, Satan’s every move is to divert our attention and dilute our focus from the primary object at hand, namely Christ’s atoning sacrifice, in hopes we will turn exclusively to doctrine of secondary and far lesser import.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:30pm

      Cont…

      His diversionary tactics have been, and will be, of such global proportions that John tragically exclaimed, “Satan . . . deceiveth the whole world” (Revelations 12:9; see also D&C 10:63). After all the sleight of hand ceases and the smoke clears, it is still Jesus Christ, his Atonement, and our obedience to him that saves us—nothing else can do it.

      Some might wonder what difference it makes whether or not they understand the Atonement, as long as they believe and accept its consequences. Such a need is illustrated by an experience of Florence Chadwick, as shared by Sterling W. Still. It was July 4, 1952. Chadwick, who had previously swum the English Channel, now attempted the twenty-one-mile swim from the southern California mainland to Catalina Island. The water was a freezing 48 degrees. The fog was thick and visibility almost nil. Finally, only a half mile from her destination, she became discouraged and quit. The next day reporters clamored around her asking why she had quit—had it been the cold water or the distance. It proved to be neither.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:31pm

      Cont…

      She responded, “I was licked by the fog.” She then recalled a similar experience while swimming the English Channel. Evidently the fog was likewise engulfing. She was exhausted. As she was about to reach out for her father’s hand in the nearby boat, he pointed to the shore. She raised her head out of the water just long enough to see the land ahead. With that new vision, she pressed on and became the first woman to conquer the English Channel.

      That story teaches a magnificent principle: with increased vision can come increased motivation. So it is with the Atonement. As our Vision of the Atonement is enhanced, our motivation to embrace its full effects is proportionately increased. President Howard W. Hunter gave this promise: “As we come to understand His mission and the atonement which He wrought, we will desire to live more like Him.” The divine consequences of so studying were disclosed by Elder Neal A. Maxwell: “The more we know of Jesus’ Atonement, the more we will humbly and gladly glorify Him, His Atonement, and His character.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:32pm

      Cont…

      Finally, Elder Bruce R. McConkie shared his testimony of the need for this spiritual pursuit in our lives:
      “The Atonement of Christ is the most basic and fundamental doctrine of the gospel, and it is the least understood of all our revealed truths. Many of us have a superficial knowledge and rely upon the Lord and his goodness to see us through the trials and perils of life. But if we are to have faith like that of Enoch and Elijah, we must believe what they believed, know what they knew, and live as they lived.”
      “May I invite you to join with me in gaining a sound and sure knowledge of the Atonment.”

      Every attempt to reflect upon the Atonement, to study it, to embrace it, to express appreciation for it, however small or feeble it may be, will kindle the fires of faith and work ins miracle towards a more Christ-like life. It is an inescapable consequence of so doing. We become like those things we habitually love and admire. And thus, as we study Christ’s life and live his teachings, we become more like him.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 9:38pm

      Cont…

      I share that witness. As we strive to study and embrace the Atonement of our Lord Jesus Christ we will start to become more like him. The objective of the Atonement is not just to cleanse us, but to so transform our lives and our way of thinking and acting that we become like God. Hugh Nibley also spoke of this oneness:
      “It should be clear what kind of oneness is meant by the Atonement—it is being received in a close embrace of the prodigal son, expressing not only forgiveness but oneness of heart and mind that amounts to identity, like a literal family identity as John set it forth so vividly in chapters 14 through 17 of his Gospel” (Nibley, Approaching Zion, 567-68).

      Near the conclusion of the Savior’s mission he prayed for all those who believed on him. He prayed that “they all may be one as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us” (John 17:21; see also D&C 35:2). He affirmed that “the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one” (John 17:22). Finally he pled, “that they may be made perfect in one” (John 17:23). Why? Because this is the ultimate in oneness, to be as God is.

      Just as every parent wants his or her children to become the best they can be, God our Father expects the same of us. Therefore, “Mormons” believe that man has the potential to become perfect through the grace of Jesus Christ.

      I would also recommend: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/

      Report Post » Lux  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 28, 2012 at 10:22pm

      @LUX There are people in the world with very good imaginations and with the ability to make up stories. So yes, it is possible to make up things (kinda like Smith did). Who’s to say the Devil didn’t inspire his ‘visions’?

      He had the Bible, so he could easily check to see if it contradicted it. But, it does have contradictions.

      D&C 130:22 God has body of flesh and bones.
      Alma 18:26-28 God is a spirit.
      There’s one example. You can find more online.

      This fairytale of Mr. Smiths is no more God’s word than the Koran. He took some stuff from the Bible, added his own and threw together a book. Smith is similar to Muhammad: both are frauds who claimed they had visions from God, angels, etc. In reality they got their visions from themselves, and or the Devil. I would no more put faith/trust in Smiths’ book than I would the Koran.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • coast2co
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 9:43am

      I agree on Osteen but look at Romney this way. human government and not theocracy. We have 2 choices Romney or Obama. We are voting for human government. and we have voted for many people that claimed christianity in the past butproved weren’t even close. Human government is of this world so. My choices aren’t in the run any longer but…. People will fail you. Most times people in politics use the sincere christian types playing at the heart string and they (politicians) no more right with God than a rock in the road is. But we feel better because they said the right words… HUMAN government is what were electing. Pray thats all we can do.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 12:35pm

      Yo Lux:
      No solo scriptura God fearing person would disagree that we are to increase in our knowledge of the Lord in EVERY aspect.
      IF…. man can acheive perfection, how come he has not … a (complete) scriptural word study on that subject would be advisible.
      As far as BEING God’s … I believe scripture say‘s you will be LIKE God’s, or like a God …big difference!

      “Blach9897” has already addressed you’re statement as to the inspiration of men and the source of it. Demonicly influcenced people can and are extremely intellegent, and since satan is one of the most intellegent and powerful beings ever cerated. He uses his deceptive power well!
      “if it was possible even the elect will be deceived” (Rev) … the Holy Spirit is the preventitive medicine.
      I find all this a mute point …. not one person can defeat the simplist of math equations I gave the challenge to
      0+0=0
      1+0=1
      1+1=1 (not possible) … prove me wrong
      I apply this math, this principle to scripture
      ( everything is based on math)
      I am going to respond to “Darren” as I said I would. The rest of my answer to you would be the same as to him …. there is no hate in my heart toward yall.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 1:08pm

      Yo Darren:
      I am getting back to you as I said I would.
      I am going to make an assumtion here in that you read my last post to you 4/27 @2″28
      You did not respond … I corrected you’re confusion and AGAIN stated my point about prophets, and asked some simple questions. You in truth cannot diagree and as asked for provide scripture to back it up ( I KNOW this because that would mean scripture contradicts itself), nothing pompous about it. If you agree you have to humble yourself and admit to you’re mistake, and this also does not bode well for Joseph Smith.

      Ephesians 2:19-21 – Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s household, built on the FOUNDATION of the APOSTLES and PROPHETS, with Christ Jesus Himself as the CHIEF CONERSTONE. IN HIM the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple.

      Again, being self employed and in construction these verses I “know”personally.
      Chief cornerstone … there are four … the ONE you start with in which the entire building is built “off” of is the first stone laid. Lay that out of square and the entire building is out of square.
      Foundation … is the rest of the stone laid down off of the cheif conerstone, and then the rest of the building.
      There are other verses that speak to this . in fact the entire bible does.

      cont…

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 1:38pm

      I believe if my memory serves me correctly that you said.. “the bible is falable because men are falable.” I do not find this statement possibly inspired by the Holy Spirit. If it is falable please show me where and which verses, and who say’s you, cause the guy next to you said it was some other verses you didn’t mention, and he thinks some of the one you did are true … by that thinking you create chaos. Not only that, that is the same “spirit” that leads atheists to say that and have the same position. Thus you aline yourself with atheists.
      “ALL scripture is GOD BRREATHED and is useful for teaching, rebuking and CORRECTING etc.
      Smith by his own words said that he needed to correct it.
      You can Apply math to what I have said and it will hold up …1+0=1

      Back to the foundation … as stated, once it is done you DO NOT go back and put any more block down. This is obviously stupid.
      So what is going on here …. I am going to use a strong example to make a point , that being rape!
      Rape is forced (between a man and a woman) ANYTHING brought into scripture is the raping of scripture. That is why Revelation does not speak kindly to it . Someone is trying to force more stone into the foundation, not only that but to put ANOTHER CHIEF CORNERSTONE in. You don’t do this in simple construction. Woe to someone whom would do this to the GOD- BREATHED WORD.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 2:04pm

      Darren … I said that I hoped that you would get into the Kingdom ( in sincerity on my part), you completly took it wrong, I brought this to you’re attention twice .. You made no apologies .. the spirit leads a man to apologies when he is wrong ..why the silence. You see Darren, I don‘t need you’re apology .. it is to you’re benifit to do so. You accuse me of being pompus and prresumtious. I apologized, not because I was being, but only if I came across as such. I have NO problem stepping up when I make a mistake and in fact would want to be corrected especially on God’s Word.

      I am directior of an after school youth program … I did something one time to show how God put the 66 books of the bible together …
      I made a puzzle 3‘x5’ and (cut into 7 pieces) and told 7 students to go to different places in the room. I then give each student a piece of the puzzle and then told them to write 1 word on it, I then called them up one at a time and had them place their piece down, and after all 7 were placed it made up a sentence. I then said, if I can oversee the making of this puzzle can God not oversee the making of “His puzzle”, and bring it to completion without error by“ breathing” them what to say …. the answer from a group of teenagers was ..YES
      I would say that any man that does not understand this ability lacks FAITH in the least.
      Jesus does not need ANYBODY to correct or compliment Him. He stands alone and on His own.
      As Job Says “who are you, oh man

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 2:20pm

      Final:
      I KNOW that the Holy Spirit lead me to do the example of the puzzle (as I was not in any way boasting).
      I will once more apologize to you … I called you and idiot – twice. I don’t in fact think you are an idiot. I do believe you were acting a bit like one. I have spoken the truth here according to scripture.. and do indeed hope you find eternity with the Lord , and if you would not find me there … still mean it.
      I AM SOLO SCRIPTURE UNTIL I DIE… because scripture say’s to be such… I play by the rules and the one’s the Judge judges by ——> peace

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 3:08pm

      @ Black & 4truth, your post reminded me of a group of scribes that persecuted Jesus for casting out devils. If you turn to Mark 3:22-26 it reads: “And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.”

      “And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins” (2 Nephi 25:26). So Satan said that? Really? Hmm….

      Alma chapter 18 took place about 90 years before Christ birth. Christ had yet received his mortal body; hence he was at that time a spirit. No contradictions there brother.

      Cont….

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 3:10pm

      Cont…

      We Latter-day Saints (Mormons) often speak about the importance of obtaining a personal “testimony” that the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. We tend to encourage people to “pray about it” as a way to learn if the Book of Mormon or other aspects of the Church are true. This emphasis on personal revelation is often misunderstood, and is sometimes said to be a reliance on feelings alone rather than relying on thinking and evidence. Thinking, studying, and pondering are key parts of the process, but in the end, we believe that one needs the guidance that comes through the Spirit of God, not the affirmations of secular scholars, to have a solid faith and even personal knowledge about the things of God.

      Critics of the Church must have spent many hours finding a way to twist some verse to deny the principle of revelation to the heart of man. But all we’re asking people to do is to turn away from human influences and turn to God, in prayer, seeking inspiration through the spirit. Is praying to God wrong? Is seeking revelation from God wrong? That’s almost the position that the anti-Mormons take. And in place of inspiration from God, what do they offer? Their human thoughts, human logic, human interpretations of scripture and human creeds, which came from the hearts and minds of humans. Hmm….

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 3:11pm

      Cont…

      What are the anti-Mormons so afraid of? They virtually beg others to NOT pray. Do they have so little faith in God that they fear souls will be lost if people pray to Him and seek His Spirit to guide them in matters of faith? They deny the Holy Ghost; they deny revelation from God. Well did Nephi write that it is Satan, not God, who teaches a man not to pray (2 Nephi 32:8,9). Think about it.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 3:58pm

      @LUX

      I’m aware of those verses.

      Satan also said he believes in God and Jesus. Doesn’t mean he’s saved. The point is, Satan builds a cake of lies and covers it with a little frosting of truth. So yeah, there may be SOME truth in what is said, but at the heart it is lies. “And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.” 2 Cor 11:14. Simply because a book talks of good things and about God, doesn’t mean it’s God’s word. I could go out write something that talks great things of God, call it part of “his word” does that make it so? No. Writing something about God in order to grow closer to him is fine; what‘s not fine is calling what you wrote apart of God’s word.

      “Alma chapter 18 took place about 90 years before Christ birth.”
      And you can prove this…how?

      “But all we’re asking people to do is to turn away from human influences……”

      Thus why I stick to God’s word, the Bible, and not a book written by a man. It seems the people who are turning to human influences are Mormons.

      Nothing is wrong with that. I offer the Bible, God’s only Word.

      I’m not afraid of anything. Who is begging people not to pray? I certainly don’t, any true Christian wouldn’t’.

      Quoting Nephi or any other passage out of the book of mormon is pointless. You might as well be quoting the Koran.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 4:32pm

      Yo Lux:
      I like going in circles on the race track, not on the computer.
      I have given SIMPLE bible verses and spoke to them. I have stood by scripture …thus I have stood by Jesus … thus the scribes you mention have NOTHING to do with me (or Black9897) nice try! The Pharasies/ scribes misused God’s word for their own benifit, We have not. It is you that does not abide to scripture, and again I provided the verses that PROVE it… yet you refuse them and label me as a heritic …good luck with that. Why should I fear you ?… I fear that which is the determiner of my eternal soul. Do the math …Time to take the race car home …bye bye…

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:19pm

      @Black ““Alma chapter 18 took place about 90 years before Christ birth.”
      And you can prove this…how?”

      The Book of Mormon takes place between 600BC to 400AD. You will find this link helpful to understanding the chronology of events in the Book of Mormon: http://www.lds.org/gospellibrary/materials/BofMChart000.pdf

      Also if you look to the header of that chapter it will say “About 90 B.C.”

      The following is a response to your statements made about The Book of Mormon being authored by the devil is taken from an address given by Tad R. Callister of the Presidency of the Seventy. I’ve already explained this countless of times on the blaze, maybe it will have more effect coming from him.

      “Years ago my great-great-grandfather picked up a copy of the Book of Mormon for the first time. He opened it to the center and read a few pages. He then declared, “That book was either written by God or the devil, and I am going to find out who wrote it.” He read it through twice in the next 10 days and then declared, “The devil could not have written it—it must be from God.”1

      Cont….

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:21pm

      Cont…

      That is the genius of the Book of Mormon—there is no middle ground. It is either the word of God as professed, or it is a total fraud. This book does not merely claim to be a moral treatise or theological commentary or collection of insightful writings. It claims to be the word of God—every sentence, every verse, every page. Joseph Smith declared that an angel of God directed him to gold plates, which contained the writings of prophets in ancient America, and that he translated those plates by divine powers. If that story is true, then the Book of Mormon is holy scripture, just as it professes to be; if not, it is a sophisticated but, nonetheless, diabolical hoax.

      C. S. Lewis spoke of a similar dilemma faced by someone who must choose whether to accept or reject the Savior’s divinity—where there is likewise no middle ground: “I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: ‘I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept His claim to be God.’ That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. … You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. … But let us not come with any patronising nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”2

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:22pm

      Cont…

      Likewise, we must make a simple choice with the Book of Mormon: it is either of God or the devil. There is no other option. For a moment I invite you to take a test that will help you determine the true nature of this book. Ask yourself if the following scriptures from the Book of Mormon draw you closer to God or to the devil:
      “Feast upon the words of Christ; for behold, the words of Christ will tell you all things what ye should do” (2 Nephi 32:3).

      Or these words of a loving father to his sons: “And now, my sons, remember, remember that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation” (Helaman 5:12).

      Or these words of a prophet: “Come unto Christ, and be perfected in him” (Moroni 10:32).

      Could these statements from the Book of Mormon have possibly been authored by the evil one? After the Savior cast out certain devils, the Pharisees claimed that He did so “by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.” The Savior responded that such a conclusion was nonsensical: “Every kingdom,” He said, “divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every … house divided against itself shall not stand.” And then His compelling climax: “And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?” (Matthew 12:24–26).

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:23pm

      Cont…

      If the foregoing scriptures from the Book of Mormon teach us to worship and love and serve the Savior (which they do), how can they be from the devil? If so, he would be divided against himself and thus be destroying his own kingdom, the very condition the Savior said could not exist. An honest, unbiased reading of the Book of Mormon will bring someone to the same conclusion as my great-great-grandfather, namely: “The devil could not have written it—it must be from God.”

      But why is the Book of Mormon so essential if we already have the Bible to teach us about Jesus Christ? Have you ever wondered why there are so many Christian churches in the world today when they obtain their doctrines from essentially the same Bible? It is because they interpret the Bible differently. If they interpreted it the same, they would be the same church. This is not a condition the Lord desires, for the Apostle Paul declared that there is “one Lord, one faith, one baptism” (Ephesians 4:5). To help bring this oneness about, the Lord established a divine law of witnesses. Paul taught, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established” (2 Corinthians 13:1).

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:24pm

      Cont…

      The Bible is one witness of Jesus Christ; the Book of Mormon is another. Why is this second witness so crucial? The following illustration may help: How many straight lines can you draw through a single point on a piece of paper? The answer is infinite. For a moment, suppose that single point represents the Bible and that hundreds of those straight lines drawn through that point represent different interpretations of the Bible and that each of those interpretations represents a different church.

      What happens, however, if on that piece of paper there is a second point representing the Book of Mormon? How many straight lines could you draw between these two reference points: the Bible and the Book of Mormon? Only one. Only one interpretation of Christ’s doctrines survives the testimony of these two witnesses.

      Again and again the Book of Mormon acts as a confirming, clarifying, unifying witness of the doctrines taught in the Bible so that there is only “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” For example, some people are confused as to whether baptism is essential for salvation even though the Savior declared to Nicodemus, “Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” (John 3:5). The Book of Mormon, however, eliminates all doubt on that subject: “And he commandeth all men that they must repent, and be baptized in his name, … or they cannot be saved in the kingdom of God” (2 Nephi 9:23).

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:25pm

      Cont…

      There exist various modes of baptisms in the world today even though the Bible tells us the manner in which the Savior, our great Exemplar, was baptized: “[He] went up straightway out of the water” (Matthew 3:16). Could He have come up out of the water unless He first went down into the water? Lest there be any discord on this subject, the Book of Mormon dispels it with this straightforward statement of doctrine as to the proper manner of baptism: “And then shall ye immerse them in the water” (3 Nephi 11:26).

      Many believe that revelation ended with the Bible even though the Bible itself is a testimony of God’s revelatory pattern over 4,000 years of man’s existence. But one incorrect doctrine such as this is like a domino set in motion that causes the fall of other dominoes or, in this case, the fall of correct doctrines. A belief in the cessation of revelation causes the doctrine that “God is the same yesterday, today, and forever” (Mormon 9:9) to fall; it causes the doctrine taught by Amos that “surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets” (Amos 3:7) to fall; and it causes the doctrine that “God is no respecter of persons” (Acts 10:34) and thus speaks to all men of all ages to fall. But fortunately the Book of Mormon reenthrones the biblical truth of continuous revelation:

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:28pm

      Cont…

      No wonder the Book of Mormon proclaims with boldness, “And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ” (2 Nephi 33:10). Together with the Bible, the Book of Mormon is an indispensable witness of the doctrines of Christ and His divinity. Together with the Bible, it “teach[es] all men that they should do good” (2 Nephi 33:10). And together with the Bible, it brings us to “one Lord, one faith, one baptism.” That is why the Book of Mormon is so crucial in our lives.

      Some years ago I attended one of our worship services in Toronto, Canada. A 14-year-old girl was the speaker. She said that she had been discussing religion with one of her friends at school. Her friend said to her, “What religion do you belong to?”

      She replied, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or Mormons.”

      Her friend replied, “I know that church, and I know it’s not true.”

      “How do you know?” came the reply.

      “Because,” said her friend, “I have researched it.”

      “Have you read the Book of Mormon?”

      “No,” came the answer. “I haven’t.”

      Then this sweet young girl responded, “Then you haven’t researched my church, because I have read every page of the Book of Mormon and I know it’s true.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 10:32pm

      Cont…

      I too have read every page of the Book of Mormon, again and again, and I bear my solemn witness, like my great-great-grandfather, it is from God. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.”

      I too know that the Book of Mormon is true, for I have likewise read every page. I also know in a like manner that the Bible is also the word of God. I am grateful for that knowledge and for the knowledge that the heavens are still open, that even today we have a living prophet who is called of God to guide and direct us. And I know that president Thomas S. Monson is that prophet. I know these things because the Holy Spirit has made them know unto me. I thank God for that knowledge.

      References:
      Tad R. Callister, The Book of Mormon—A Book from God, http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2011/10/the-book-of-mormon-a-book-from-god?lang=eng

      Alma 18, http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/18?lang=eng

      http://www.lds.org/general-conference?lang=eng

      Report Post » Lux  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 11:38pm

      @LUX

      Ok, how does this prove what is said is true?

      This is simply more of the book, which I do not believe in. Isn’t that kinda circular reasoning?

      I agree there is no middle ground. It’s pretty clear it’s a nice fairytale.
      I’m very familiar with C.S. Lewis and the example you gave. That’s why it seems clear that “angel” was satan…either that or Smith had some mental problems and or drug problems. Believe it or not satan can use “good” things to turn us away and or confuse us. Half-truths can be just as bad as full blown lies, because people don’t realize it.

      I understand what’s written in the book, that’s not the point. It could say all the nice things it wants. That still doesn’t mean it’s God’s word. Reading C.S. Lewis draws me closer to God; does that mean C.S. Lewis’s work is part of the Bible? No. That’s why people are easily confused and or swayed by it. Because they think if this book is saying good things about God then it must be his word.

      Allegedly, the book of Mormon is another (has never been proven). Nice illustration and I understand it. However, the “different interpretations” are not the Bible’s fault, it’s mans. Most of them are over silly things. Also, even different denominations still agree on the same story (God sent Jesus to die on the Christ for our sins and rose again).

      Cont. —–

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 11:42pm

      I stated before my dad is a Pastor (Southern Baptist), so I know the whole different denominations things and what people don’t agree on, I’ve been around it my whole life. Sadly, some separate due to conflict on styles of worship (some like traditional, some like contemporary). I’ve also been to many other churches: Presbyterian, Pentecostal, catholic, etc. You’ll find most there is no need to have “their own.” It’s silly and unfortunate, but that’s humans for you.

      Baptism is one of the easiest things to understand. I don’t need the book of Mormon to confirm anything. The Bible confirms it for me. It’s a middle man that’s unnecessary.
      I don’t’ disagree that God doesn’t reveal things to man. I disagree (and I think the Bible is clear on this) is that the Bible was the FINAL written word of God. Nothing else (as far as God’s written word) will/would be added.

      Cont.—-

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 29, 2012 at 11:44pm

      “And if ye shall believe in Christ ye will believe in these words, for they are the words of Christ”
      Simply Smiths opinion. He cannot back it up, other than “well God told me.”

      By implying we need TBOM, you are by default saying God’s final written word is weak and we need another book to grow closer to him. I know you and DARREN would disagree, but’s that’s actually what is being said. You’re saying God needs a middle man or something else to confirm his word which is stated many times over in the Bible is not necessary (I’ve given verses several times, as did 4TRUTH2ALL). I‘ve never read in the Bible where another book is needed to know God, or grow closer to him.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:35am

      black and 4truth, you are so right. For you the bible is the last and final word of God. He wouldn’t want you to condemn yourselves more by rejecting more of his word. God is a merciful God and he won’t give you more than you can handle.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 9:37am

      Yo Joel228:
      You making me laugh …you’re another guy that likes the oval track .OK , I’ll go one lap with you. I used scripture to speak FOR me and gave personal examples of it. Scripture say’s; “that we are to speak the TRUTH to one another” … that TRUTH being, simple honesty and the TRUTH of God’s Word. Unless I missed it I found NO SCRIPTURE in you’re responce to disprove what I and Black9897 have said. You do not cause you can not. Instead, you take a biblical principle and mis-apply it. Not only do you mis-use it you use it trying to be clever and condemning of both Black9897 and myself ….I believe scripture would call this foolish, and even worse, to use God’s Word this way! I advise you be more careful. The biblical principle of “not more then one can handle” has little or nothing to do with UNDERSTANDING of God’s Word (knowing God). But then, one mature in their faith would UNDERSTAND this. Understanding God‘s Word is based on one’s efforts of pursuit, and I reject NOTHING of “God’s” Word.
      You can’t handle and obey the simple truths of scripture, so you insult! Again, this is the same manner and spirit of responce that athesits follow.
      I told “LUX” that I have no fear of Mormans, what I should have said was; that I have a fear “FOR” Mormans, out of concern. This is my heart, and why the time is spent here, and GOD KNOWS this. And, YOU insult me … did the Spirit tell you to insult itself ???

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 9:41am

      Yo BLACK9897:

      While I’m here …. was a pleasure “meeting” you bro … peace

      Report Post »  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 11:07am

      Yo 4TRTUH2ALL

      It was great ‘meeting’ you as well.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:37pm

      May I ask just what it is that the Bible says about itself? And just which Bible do any such passages refer to? In answering that question, may I ask if you know when and how the various books of the Bible were selected, brought together, and organized into the form currently known as the Bible? And may I ask if you are aware that the selection of books in typical Protestant Bibles is only one of many, many different compilations that have been proposed by various committees and groups over the centuries – and differs from older Catholic Bibles, for example, in many ways, such as having “subtracted” a variety of books. And when Paul or Christ refer to “scripture” or “scriptures,” do you know what they were referring to? (One hint: before the New Testament had been written and compiled, those referring to scripture around A.D. 30-50 were probably referring to the Septuagint – which differs in several important ways from the text used to produce the Old Testament of most Protestant Bibles.)

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:38pm

      Cont…

      I‘m afraid you won’t find any passages in the Bible that use the word “Bible” or refer specifically to Protestant canons or the translation of your choice. In fact, it may be very difficult to find out what the “Bible” says about the “Bible” without thinking about what the Bible is, what scripture is, and how you got whatever canon and translation you have chosen to us. But if you have a canon and translation that is perfect and complete, exactly as God wants it, please let me know – for my King James Version, as much as I love it, clearly is not, in spite of the many hundreds of helpful changes that have been made in it since its first edition in 1611.

      I agree that whatever God says is perfect. But there is a huge difference between what God says and what man understands, then writes, copies, translates, and publishes. Much of the Bible is not quotations given directly from God, but history or letters created in the first place by inspired humans, who then expressed their inspired knowledge in human language. But the very obvious limitations of human language alone means that it is utterly unreasonable to expect any text in a human language to be perfect and complete, for there are inherent limitations in what can be expressed and how accurately it can be expressed.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:39pm

      Cont…

      The very fact that there are multiple competing and sometimes contradictory translations of the Bible shows that printed Bible texts cannot be perfect and complete. For example, which of the numerous editions of the King James Bible was the perfect one? The 1611 version, perhaps? Or is it an entirely different translation like the New English Bible? Which of the dozens of differing Greek manuscripts is the perfect one to translate from? And for the Old Testament, is the Septuagint the perfect version (that’s the one that the early Apostles knew and quoted from), or is it one of the variants of the Masoretic text? Perhaps the Aramaic Targum?

      Remember, unless God himself is the writer, copyist, translator, publisher and typesetter, any book, no matter how inspired and divine at its core, is subject to some degree of error. That’s why we worship God, not the Bible, and need ongoing revelation from Him to ensure that we stay on course, as Paul taught in Eph. 4:11-14.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:40pm

      Cont…

      We can use human logic coupled with human assumptions to convince ourselves that the Bible must be perfect and complete like God, written as if he had dictated every word and guided every act of each copyist, translator, and typesetter, resulting in a crystal-clear perfect text utterly free of error and human influence, but – and I will be blunt here – this takes one to a fantasy land utterly out of touch with reality. You cannot dig into the Bible without realizing that there are NO original manuscripts that have been preserved, and many differing secondary manuscripts that leave numerous uncertainties in the text with easy-to-demonstrate errors and other problems. You cannot even walk into a Christian bookstore and look at the Bible section without realizing that there are many competing translations of the Bible.

      It is shear fantasy to think that God has eliminated all human influences to preserve one sole original manuscript and one perfect, complete translation into English that allows the Bible to be the perfect, complete final authority, possessing the very nature of God, perfection and completeness. It’s almost as if some people want to worship the Bible and give it the attributes of God.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:41pm

      Cont…

      Amazingly, it can be demonstrated that MUCH of the Bible has been preserved among various competing manuscripts. The core messages of the Bible are not subject to question due to textual problems. It is entirely acceptable to believe that the Bible is the word of God as far as it has been properly preserved and translated, with reliance on additional texts and ongoing revelation to clarify uncertainties or correct possible errors. The Book of Mormon is one such additional text, serving as another witness of Jesus Christ and a powerful CONFIRMATION of the truth of the Bible on numerous key issues, and providing confirmation of the accuracy of existing manuscripts for some specific Bible passages such as many parts of Isaiah and the Sermon on the Mount.

      Acceptance of the Bible as the Word of God as far as it is translated correctly is the most logical approach for a true, faithful Christian who understand the Bible text and its origins. And it has been the approach of the Latter-day Saints from the beginning.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:52pm

      I believe you have two passages in mind regarding Satan transforming himself into an angel of light:
      Gal. 1:8, “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.”

      2 Cor. 11:14, “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

      Paul warns against anyone accepting any other Gospel than what Christ and the Apostles preached, regardless of its apparent source, and I agree. Now consider this: what was early Christianity? What did Christ teach? What was His Church? Christ taught faith and repentance, followed by baptism by immersion for those who believe (Acts 2:37-38; John 3:3-5; Matt. 4:17; Mark 16:16; Romans 6; many others). Anything else – infant baptism, baptism by sprinkling, etc., is not the same Gospel. Christ instituted an unpaid ministry (Matt. 10:8; 1 Cor. 9:18; John 10:11-13; Acts 20:33-35; 2 Thess. 3:7-8) comprising apostles and prophets and other offices (Bishops, Seventies, etc.) which was lead by revelation from Him (Eph. 4:11-14).

      Any other form of organization must be questioned. Where do we find the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands as in the early Church? (Acts 8:17) Where do we find priesthood authority given by the laying on of hands, by revelation and by the laying on of hands, by those who have received it from God? (Heb. 5:4; 1 Tim. 4:14; 2 Tim. 1:6)

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:54pm

      Cont…

      For centuries these things were not to be found on the earth, but they have been restored now through the promised “restitution of all things” (Acts 3:19-21) which came after the prophesied time of apostasy (2 Thess. 2:1-3; Acts 20:29,30).

      Does Paul say that we should not accept angels or their ministry? That’s not at all what he warns against. He warns against being deceived. He warns that Satan can appear as an angel of light, which is a deception only because it sort of looks like the real – and holy – thing. Counterfeits don’t work unless they imitate something real.

      Angels are real, and they look human and are bright, as we gather from several Biblical descriptions. Cornelius, for example, describes the angel who ministered to him as a man in bright clothing (Acts 10:30-32; see also Heb. 1:7). Two angels are described as men in white clothing in Acts 1:10-11. They announced the birth of Christ, they ministered to Christ (Luke 22:43), they rolled away the stone in front of his tomb and announced His Resurrection (Matt. 28); they were present after He ascended into heaven (Acts 1:11),and they will yet come with Christ (Matt. 16:27).

      Angels have been sent by God to visit men long before Paul wrote anything, angels ministered to and delivered Paul himself (Acts 27:23), and angels ministered to others such as John (see the Book of Revelation) after Paul wrote Galatians and Corinthians.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:56pm

      Cont…

      John even prophesied of angels ministering to men in the future (e.g., Rev. 14:6,7, where an angel proclaims the “everlasting Gospel” to the world – perhaps an allusion to the role of the Angel Moroni).
      Angels can be spirits (Ps. 104:4), including those of righteous men of God who lived before, such as Moses and Elias who appeared to Christ and some apostles in Matt. 17. Since the time of Christ, they may also be resurrected spirits, as may be the case for the former prophet who appeared as a glorious angel to John the Beloved (Rev. 22: 8,9), and was the case for the angel Moroni who appeared to Joseph Smith to help bring forth The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Christ, a record which confirms and verifies the Bible and convinces millions that Jesus is the Christ. Angels were a real part of the early Church. If there is no more ministering of angels in some quarters, perhaps its for the same reasons that we don’t find apostles and prophets and modern revelation and other gifts of the Spirit. Where do we find the ministry of real angels today? In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 2:59pm

      Cont…

      I hope you’ll take some time to look into the Restored Gospel and hear its simple but beautiful message from authorized servants of God, the LDS missionaries. They have received Priesthood authority for their ministry in the true Biblical manner, by prophecy and by the laying on of hands from other authorized servants who in turn can trace their authority back to Christ, thanks to the ministry of angels – even Peter, James, and John – who Christ sent to Joseph Smith to restore the Priesthood power of God.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 7:01pm

      Isaiah 40:8
      “The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.”
      “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16).

      Which Bible? Well, since it’s written in the Bible it can only be referring to one. That is the Bible, where everything (God’s word) is written.

      Yes, I’m aware of all of this.

      Of course the word Bible isn’t found in the Bible, it wasn’t “the Bible” until it was put together by God’s guidance. However, it was, and still is God’s Word.

      The way you talk about the Bible and doubting it’s the only written Word of God you think you’re an atheist. Trying to imply that since it’s been translated so many times it’s somehow not God’s word, or not his only word, etc is silly. There are no major ‘errors’ made to the Bible. That’s what’s so amazing. Some translations are better than others, that’s why it’s good to have several.

      God guided their hands to write what is written. I do not doubt that. I understand there are some things in other languages that may come out somewhat differently in others. That’s no reason to doubt it’s God’s word or it somehow isn’t complete.

      I don’t’ deny you might have some small errors, but that doesn’t mean we “need” more “written word” of God. Paul isn’t teaching that people are going to write more about God and call it Hi

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 7:01pm

      Fantasy? No. It’s Biblical. Yes, everything that has been written is originally what was said. Ignoring the small translation errors it’s the Word of God. It’s not hard to understand that while there are small errors, the story is the same and has stayed the same since it was first written. Does your Bible say Jesus wasn’t the Son of God? Or that he didn’t die on the cross? Or that we aren’t to Love one another?

      That’s the thing, there doesn’t’ need to be any extra texts. Do you have such little faith that small translation errors cause you to doubt the Bible’s credibility? And want something else to “confirm it?”

      “was the case for the angel Moroni who appeared to Joseph Smith to help bring forth The Book of Mormon”

      Again, simply an opinion. And again, that “angel” could simply have been satan. Trying to divide Christians. He knows a church that’s divided is weaker.

      Cont. —

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 7:03pm

      If people need more written word than the Bible to confirm Jesus is Christ, than again you’re saying God’s word is weak.
      I most certainly believe in angels, and that they walk among us and or are sent. However, I do not for one second believe anything else is part of the Bible.

      I have God’s only written Holy Word right here. But thanks anyways. That’s why whenever Mormons or jehovah’s witnesses come knock on my door and want me to take their stuff I offer them a Bible to take, so they can read God’s only written Word.

      I feel like I’m a talking in circles. Thank you for talking about this with me. But I will always stick to God’s only, final, Holy written Word: The Bible.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 7:23pm

      Lux, you make several vary good points. Perhaps 4truth would like to comment on the new bible coming out that is supposed to appeal to Muslims by removing references to God as Father and Jesus as Son.
      http://www.wnd.com/2012/04/independent-panel-judges-charge-bible-appeases-muslims/

      Remember 4truth, the bible is perfect and that is the bible (or will be when done).

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 7:32pm

      Oh and black, maybe you would be interested in one of the gender neutral bibles. It’s a bible so God would not allow it to be distorted or perverted now would he/she? If you can tell me why you think it’s less than perfect tell me why whatever argument you use could not also apply to the King James version or any other for that matter.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 8:29pm

      @ JOEL228
      Now you sound like an atheist.

      I never claimed that coming out with a Bible that appeals to muslims, or one that is gender neutral is good, or should be done. The Bible has always called God “he”. And as far the one that appeals to muslims, that clearly is NOT the word of God because again, not only has that been consistently a MAJOR part of the doctrine but is removing from it.

      The same goes for Bibles that don’t call Mary a virgin, or ones that say God didn’t send Jesus to die for our sins.

      You’re making a simple issue into a big one.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 9:17pm

      Yo Lux:
      ” I’m so dizzy my head is spinning, like a whirlpool it never ends”. Know the song? What you have said in you’re last two post is UNBELIEVABLE!
      There is NO OTHER and I gave you verses (not me) that say so. But you put the BOM above scripture.
      Men are not angels, and angels are not men … angels can appear as human that is all…
      Priesthood: But you are a chosen people a ROYAL PRIESTHOOD, a holy nation, a people belonging to God. …1Peter 2:9… I DON”T NEED Mr. Smith’s or LDS say so, thankyou!

      An abomination and blasphemy is you’re statement of restoration
      Jesus restored ALL THINGS ON THE CROSS …. any other is heresy.

      YO Joel228:

      4truth’s comment ….is …..it is garbage. I know how I got my bible and how it came to be. In fact I have 8 different interpretations and a parallel bible with 4 versions on each page … so there… nah, nah nah!
      Do you make pretzels? Cause you sure know how to twist things around.

      Seriously … I’m done here.

      Report Post »  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 10:28pm

      black and 4truth, you both miss my point. I believe the bible as far as it is translated and transmitted correctly. The only reason I bring up two versions that are obviously distorted versions is to prove to you that God does not protect us from ourselves and because of the wickedness of the world has allowed the inspired writings of prophets to be lost, mistranslated and modified or changed in a way that distorts the original intent of the authors. I’m far from being an atheist. You are more atheistic in that you don’t allow for God to give more words, clarifications, more details about our existence and destiny and most important about what he requires for us to get there and where there is. The writings of the prophets have been left out, removed, and altered just enough to cause massive confusion. How else can you explain so many interpretations of the same scriptures?

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 10:36pm

      Even more scriptures will come out in the millennium.

      Daniel 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

      2 Nephi 27:11 And the day cometh that the words of the book which were sealed shall be read upon the house tops; and they shall be read by the power of Christ; and all things shall be revealed unto the children of men which ever have been among the children of men, and which ever will be even unto the end of the earth.

      Isaiah 29:11 And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:

      Report Post » joel228  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 10:48pm

      And how can I forget Joel 2:28?
      28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
      29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
      30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
      31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the Lord come.

      Report Post » joel228  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 10:51pm

      Well so do I. And it has been transmitted and translated correctly. I have a KJV, an NLT, and NCV. It has to some degree. And I agree that people can mess up God’s word (they can also mess up the BOM as well, not that I believe it’s anything special). I don’t actually think you’re an atheist; it was the way you were attacking the Bible to make your point. We have everything. If you need more clarification then study the Bible, pray, seek others who have been studying the word longer than you. What more do you need to know?

      It’s given to us already; how to get to heaven, how to bring others to Christ, the purpose of living, etc, etc. I already explained how. There’s nothing wrong with having different translations, as long as the integrity is kept. The KJV for example is harder to understand due to its old style language. A simple example is this: Instead of saying “Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding” you can say Trust the Lord with all your heart, and don’t depend on your own understanding.” The integrity was kept yet it’s a different translation.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • joel228
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 11:12pm

      black, I appreciate your response. I do think the KJV is for the most part correct. However you still did not explain why everyone does not interpret the scriptures in exactly the same way you do (even without knowing how you do). I have read both the Old and New Testaments from cover to cover and studied them much over decades. Back in the late 70′s I even taught from the spanish versions of the bible and there are some things that translate from the spanish to english different than you see in the KJV. I’ve heard that it is even more pronounced going from the old german version.

      I have seen studies that show Mormons are better educated in the Old and New Testaments than other religious populations. I’m confident that is the case. In fact due to the other scriptures we have I can understand the bible much much better than I could otherwise. Some otherwise obscure passages become clear just like when the resurrected Jesus walked with his apostles and taught them without letting them know who he was. He caused their hearts to burn within and opened their understanding. If you want to understand Matthew 24 better read JS Matthew
      http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-m/1?lang=eng
      and D&C 45
      http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/45?lang=eng

      Report Post » joel228  
    • black9897
      Posted on April 30, 2012 at 11:21pm

      @ JOEL

      Daniel 12:9
      Daniel was worried to learn WHEN these things would all transpire — suggesting that he hoped to see the end before he died. Not implying more Scripture.

      Isaiah 29:11
      Isaiah’s message, bound up and sealed (Isa 8:16). it had been explained to those who wanted to hear, but to the educated leaders of Israel it remained a “sealed” book , because they did not want to hear its words. Again, nothing about “new” scripture.

      Joel 2:28

      And this says more scripture will be added where?

      Report Post » black9897  
    • joel228
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 1:33am

      A better question would be where in the scriptures does it say there can not be any more scriptures? The burden of proof should be on those that imply God has ceased to inspire prophets who in turn write down the inspirations and thus add to scripture. Please don‘t give me the verse in revelation and the two verses in Deuteronomy to support that because they don’t.

      So unless you can tell me where the scriptures say this is the end of scriptures you and I must assume that God has not ceased to be God and his words continue to us as long as we are able and willing to accept them. What good is a gift from God if we refuse to accept it?

      Nevertheless Isaiah 29 and Ezekiel 37:16 on team up very well in describing the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. If you knew better the history you would see that.
      http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/isa/29?lang=eng
      http://www.lds.org/scriptures/ot/ezek/37.16?lang=eng#15

      And did you know that the Book of Mormon was only a one third part of the golden plates from which they were translated? The other two thirds will be given to us probably after the second coming and will be the words that are read on the house tops. Also we expect to sometime get the record of the lost tribes that Christ visited after his resurrection. The Book of Mormon people are the “other sheep” that would hear his voice. The lost tribes of Israel are the other other sheep and we don’t have that record yet. I’ll bet he taught them the same that he taught in Je

      Report Post » joel228  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 6:08am

      I’m not attacking the Bible, I love the Bible; I am simply making a point. From your post it is quite apparent you believe, as I do, God is perfect. He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. I just have a hard time understand your line of reasoning. As Elder Callister so logically put it by “believing incorrect doctrine such as the cessation of revelation causes the doctrine that “God is the same yesterday, today, and forever” to fall; it causes the doctrine taught by Amos that “surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets” to fall; and it causes the doctrine that “God is no respecter of persons” and thus speaks to all men of all ages to fall.”

      For example if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever (which he is)… and he has always called prophets… and has always commanded his prophets to keep a record of his dealings with them… wouldn’t he continue to do so today… just as he has always done in times past? You claim God is perfect and unchanging, yet by stating God is done speaking, that the scriptures are closed, you are stating that God does change, and is therefore not perfect. Isn’t it logical that if God is perfect and unchanging that He would continue to do that which He has always done? The Lord being all knowing knew that many today would have trouble accepting the Book of Mormon.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 6:10am

      The Lord speaks of people who “shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible.” The Lords logic is perfect, his reasoning is sound. Read the following statement given by the Lord and tell me it is not so.

      “Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?

      Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?

      Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

      And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 6:12am

      Cont…

      Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.

      For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.

      For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

      And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.”

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 6:14am

      Cont…

      “And it shall come to pass that my people, which are of the house of Israel, shall be gathered home unto the lands of their possessions; and my word also shall be gathered in one. And I will show unto them that fight against my word and against my people, who are of the house of Israel, that I am God, and that I covenanted with Abraham that I would remember his seed forever.” (2 Nephi 29:7-14).

      You will say that these words hold no weight because they come from the Book of Mormon. And that is fine you are free to do so. But I would encourage you to take another look at the Book of Mormon, read it with and inquiring mind, and then ask of God as James 1:5 directs. I can promise you that if you sincerely ask, having real intent to act upon the answer you receive, and have faith in Christ, “he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.” For it is “by the power of the Holy Ghost [we] may know the truth of all things.”(See Moroni 10:3-5).

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 6:31am

      @ JOEL

      Thanks. I always enjoy reading DARREN, P8riot, and your responses you guys also make some very good points.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • black9897
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:41am

      @JOEL

      I would disagree. When someone claims this is a part of God’s word then the burden is on them. Well if you say I can’t use the Bible to prove that then…that makes no sense. Those two verses do say that. Even IF they were talking about just those books logic follows it applies to ALL the books. Why would it be ok to not add to just two, yet add to the others?

      This was to the Hebrews. They were in great pain and despair, so Ezekiel gives a two-part message of comfort and hope from God. The first part (verses 1-14) contains the well-known vision of the valley of dry bones. Through that vision, Israel’s God pledges to breathe new life into the dry and scattered nation of Israel and bring the people back into the land. Then, in verses 15-22, God promises a future restoration for the whole nation, and declares that someday the northern kingdom, called “Joseph,” and the southern kingdom, called “Judah,” would once again be a united Israel.

      You’re reading waay too much into this.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • black9897
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:52am

      @LUX

      Incorrect doctrine? I’ve never seen any doctrine saying God will use people after the Bible was written to write more. It actually causes none of that to fall. I never claimed God doesn’t speak to men of all ages. But what I know is that as far as written word goes, the buck stops with the Bible. Saying there is more written word opens us up to problems.

      No, as stated above his written word ceased. Speaking to man has not, directing man has not. There’s nothing more that needs to be written, if there was it would have been included in God’s word.

      I thank you for your time talking about this.

      Report Post » black9897  
    • kingatao77
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 5:50pm

      Line that up with the word of God?

      Report Post »  
    • kingatao77
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 5:54pm

      ? How so? Judge not lest ye be judged. Joel blatantly said, the word of god says Homosexuality is a sin. Where are your facts?

      Report Post »  
    • RossPoldark
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 7:46pm

      It takes a true Christian to know a true Christian, so how would someone the likes of Osteen know a real Christian. He is such a rodent.

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:10pm

      I’ve enjoyed this conversation as well. It has always been an interest of mine to try and see things from others perspectives. Let’s look at the following verses from the KJV of the Bible:

      “Despise not prophesyings.” Paul, in 1 Thessalonians 5:20

      “Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city…” Jesus Christ, in Matthew 23:34

      “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” Amos 3:7

      “As my Father hath sent me, even so I send you.” John 20:21

      The concept of modern revelation is at the heart of what makes the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints so different from other established Christian churches. For many, it is a troubling, even appalling concept. How could there be any prophets after Christ, the final revelation? How could there be any revelation beyond what is in the Bible? Why do we need modern prophets and apostles? Aren’t we adding to the word of God if we admit the possibility of modern revelation? Aren’t we being deceived by a false prophet? The doctrine of continued guidance and revelation from living prophets is not only Biblical, but it is vitally important for our time – a time when we need direct counsel from God just as much as the people did in the time of Moses, Noah, Peter, or Paul.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:12pm

      Cont…

      On the other hand, even divinely called prophets are still mortal human being subject to all manner of errors. God does not take over a prophets brain. Revelation from God may be a rare event, not a steady stream of direction on every trivial matter. As we learn from the Bible, prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ can make mistakes, commit sins, have silly arguments, be deceived by others, and so forth. To expect that every act and every utterance of a prophet will be infallibly correct and ideal is to demand far too much.

      Some Latter-day Saints may be bothered to learn that Joseph Smith had some pretty ugly mistakes on his record such as the Kirtland Bank disaster or the mistakes of the Church that resulted in the chaotic tragedy of Missouri in 1838. The faithful historical account of Joseph Smith in Rough Stone Rolling by LDS member Richard Bushman may bother some people, but it is a history we need to better understand. Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God, but as a mortal, he certainly had some rough edges. He may have been far too optimistic about the rise of the Church and the success of the Saints, and perhaps too rash or harsh in dealing with critics and apostates.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:12pm

      Cont…

      It is hard to judge some of these matters in our day, but it is clear that modern prophets have made serious mistakes, and that not every statement, hope, and dream was fulfilled. It is important to understand the human limitations of prophets – no different today than in Bible days. For Latter-day Saints to withstand the harsh attacks of critics, it is vital to have a realistic understanding of what prophets are and what they are not. We do not expect perfection – and we will not find it in them or any other mortal.

      Latter-day Saints believe that Joseph Smith was called as a prophet of God through whom the Church of Jesus Christ was restored. We believe that God has always worked through prophets and apostles, leading his people and His Church through revelation – direct, clear, revelation to chosen leaders – not through committees, councils, or debate among scholars. When widespread apostasy occurs and prophets and apostles are rejected, there can be a loss of such gifts, until God restores them. Such happened in the first couple of centuries after Christ, as chosen and ordained apostles and prophets were rejected, martyred, and eventually replaced, sometimes by usurpers and power-seekers, sometimes by apostates who changed the doctrine to make it more pleasing to the worldly philosophies of the day, and sometimes by well meaning men who lacked divine authority.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:14pm

      Cont…

      In any case, much of the original Church was lost and waited the time of the restitution of all things (Acts 3:19) when the Church would be restored – along with the gift of apostles and prophets to guide the Church through continuing revelation. This restoration of the fullness of the Gospel took place through a mortal but divinely commissioned prophet of God, Joseph Smith, who established the church under divine direction in 1830. For more information, please read the Prophet Joseph Smith’s Testimony. (See http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng).

      There have been numerous allegations against Joseph Smith by enemies of the Church, including some who once were members but turned against the Church. The allegations were inflammatory enough to stir up mobs that sought to kill Joseph and drove many Latter-day Saints from one community to another. Joseph finally was jailed – on false charges of treason – and was killed by a mob in Illinois in 1844.

      In spite of the much evil that has been said of Joseph Smith, the vast majority of those who knew him loved him and affirmed his goodness and his divinely appointed role as a prophet. We need not rely on uncertain rumors or hearsay to determine whether he was a fraud or not. The Book of Mormon offers concrete evidence – mountains of it – for anyone to determine whether this farmboy was a genuine prophet of God or just a gifted but evil charlatan.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:15pm

      Cont…

      The Book of Mormon is his translation of an ancient sacred record from peoples in Central America, some of whom also knew of the coming of Christ and of His atonement. Their record, a 500-page volume covering over a thousand years of events and prophecies, stands as a second witness for Jesus Christ, in harmony with the Bible, with a beauty and power that has changed millions of lives for the better – including mine. Read it carefully, ponder it, and pray to God to know for yourself if it is His word, with the Bible, or if it is a malicious fraud. This Christ-loving, divine record is something no man could have fabricated. If you love the words of Christ, I believe you will love the power of the Book of Mormon. If it is an authentic ancient record, translated only by the gift and power of God, then Joseph Smith was truly a prophet called of God. If it was a fabrication, then he was not. It’s that simple.

      I ask no one to just take my word for it. I ask people to put the Book of Mormon to the test. By test, I don’t mean looking at an anti-Mormon book and listing 20 silly, easily-refuted arguments against the Book of Mormon. I mean actually reading the Book of Mormon, thinking about it, giving it a chance, maybe even taking a few notes or making an outline as you read to consider broad issues and to see how the overall structure fits together.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:16pm

      Cont…

      Ask yourself, as you read, could any man have written this book? Does it truly testify of Christ and of God? What does it teach of Christ and His Atonement? What does it mean for me, in the 20th century?

      I’m always surprised to see 1 Cor. 13:8-10 used to support the notion that God no longer speaks to prophets. In early 2000, a local Christian church ran an ad in the newspaper to invite people to an anti-Mormon lecture. The ad kindly reminded people that there is to be NO prophecy in these days, for the need for prophecy has ended now that we have all we need in the Bible. The ad quoted 1 Cor. 13: 8-10 as proof that prophecy has ended:

      8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

      9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

      10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

      I think the best way that this passage can be consistent with common sense and the rest of the Bible is to understand that prophecy, tongues (the gift to speak and understand foreign languages), and human knowledge are things of value to us in this imperfect mortal world, before the coming of the perfect day, but that charity is an eternal attribute that is essential for the next life and our eternal destiny.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:17pm

      Cont…

      The day of perfection has not come – and it looks like it’s a long ways off, from my imperfect perspective – so obviously, gifts of the spirit are still needed. If Paul means that prophecy would stop after the New Testament, does he also mean that knowledge would stop after the coming forth of the Bible? It has for some people, but don’t blame Paul or God for that! This verse says nothing about prophecy not being needed just because the Bible is available.

      The church that placed the above-mentioned ad claims to be a church that just relies on the Bible alone, taking their message straight from the pages of the Bible. Sadly, they must be missing quite a few pages. The book of Joel is one of those missing sections. If they had read it, perhaps they would know that prophecy and spiritual gifts are to be found in the last days, before the coming of the Lord. Look at Joel 2:28-31:

      28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

      29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

      30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

      31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:18pm

      Cont…

      Yes, spiritual gifts, including prophecy, is to be poured out before the great Second Coming of the Lord. They are an important sign of the last days, in fact. One dramatic event shortly before the return of the Lord is described in Revelation 11, where two “witnesses” (v. 3 – perhaps apostles, special witnesses of Christ), also described as “prophets” (v. 10) will prophecy in Jerusalem for 1,260 days and be killed, then brought back to life by the power of God. Surely there will be more prophecy to come – at least 1,260 days’ worth.

      In Ephesians 4:11-14, Paul explains that prophets and apostles were put in the Church of Jesus Christ to help bring us to a unity of faith, among other reasons. Unity in the faith has clearly not been achieved (though you can make an important step in the direction by converting to the Restored Gospel today!), so prophets are still needed. Paul speaks of prophets and prophecy as something that is needed until there is religious unity (Eph. 4:11-14). In 1 Cor. 14:5 (see also v. 29), Paul wishes that all would have the gift of prophecy that the church might be edified. Is there no longer a need for edification?

      Paul knew that the world, with its emphasis and reliance on human wisdom, would work to quench spiritual gifts and despise prophecy. But he said, “Quench not the Spirit” and “Despise not prophesyings” in 1 Thess. 5:19,20.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:20pm

      In light of the New Testament record, if there is any church on earth that can legitimately be called the Church of Jesus Christ, it must have apostles and prophets. And those who deny prophecy do not understand the scriptures.

      This common teaching is popular, but simply not Biblical. Christ actually said that there would be prophets after him, whom he would send, and established the principle of continuing, modern revelation to apostles and prophets to guide his Church. In Matthew 23:34, Christ said:

      Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city….

      The same is repeated in Luke 11:49. Not only would Christ send prophets, but He would expect His followers to receive His prophets as His messengers (Matthew 10:40-41):

      He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

      He that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet’s reward; and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man’s reward.

      (See also John 13:20 and John 15:20.)

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:22pm

      Cont…

      However, Christ did warn that false prophets would come (e.g., Matt. 7:15), but this warning only makes sense if there would be true prophets to be distinguished from the false. If there were to be no more prophets, He should have simply said so. Instead, He warned against false prophets and gave clues on how to distinguish them in Matthew 7:15-20:

      15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

      16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

      17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

      18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither [can] a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

      19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

      20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

      The fruit of the Book of Mormon is tangible, hard evidence – not hearsay, slander, or rumor – which has been a proofstone available to all the world to examine the prophetic claims of Joseph Smith. Most of the ministers of the “mainstream” Christian world insist that there are to be no more prophets, but the absence of prophets and apostles is one of the surest indications that a general apostasy from the original Gospel had occurred.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:23pm

      Cont…

      The original Church of Christ not only had apostles and prophets, but had such as its foundation, at its very core, as we read in Ephesians 2:19-20:

      Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

      And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone….

      Likewise, 1 Corinthians 12:28-29 and Ephesians 3:1-6 confirm that the early Church had apostles and prophets and that they taught sacred truths to the early Christians. Paul further explains the importance of apostles and prophets in the Church in Ephesians 4:11-14:

      11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

      12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

      13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

      14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive….

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:24pm

      Cont…

      Without the guidance that comes from revelation to God’s anointed leaders, even a community of believers may be tossed about by every wind of doctrine, drifting like a ship without a rudder. For example, the early loss of apostles and prophets due to apostasy from within and persecution from without led to a situation where basic doctrines became clouded, confused, and perverted. The introduction of infant baptism is one example. Soon basic doctrines about the nature of God became replaced with ideas more palatable to the Hellenized thinking of the 3rd and 4th centuries. The reality of the physical, tangible, resurrected body of Christ was dissolved by councils of debating men who preferred abstract, Platonic “forms” over the “unsophisticated” idea of a God who actually looked like man, in whose image we were literally created. The idea that God and Christ were one in purpose yet separate beings (see John 17:20-23, Acts 7:55,56; John 14:28) was replaced with ideas that were more appealing to Hellenized intellectuals. Those who were taught and believed such doctrines were still Christians, certainly, if they accepted Christ, but there were truths and principles that were missing. These truths and principles have been restored – and it required specially called, authorized, and ordained prophets of God such as Joseph Smith.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:24pm

      Cont…

      God has always worked through apostles and prophets, and has not changed in that regard. Amos 3:7 explains: “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” The Lord God does His work through His servants, the prophets, to whom he reveals truths and teachings. If there are no prophets, then something is missing.

      Besides the apostles named in the New Testament (whose body of 12 was meant to be maintained, as seen by the selection of Matthias to replace the deceased traitor Judas, Acts 1:24-26), we have other names of men who were prophets, after the time of Christ. Acts 15:32 names two: “And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.”

      Did Paul say prophecy had ended with Christ? No. In fact, prophecy was a gift of the Spirit had among the Christian community, as Paul indicates in 1 Cor. 14:3: “But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.” Revelation 11:10 also prophesies of two prophets in particular who, in the last days, will be killed in Jerusalem and be revived miraculously.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:25pm

      Cont…

      Amazingly, some modern critics charge that a belief in prophets after Christ makes Latter-day Saints non-Christian. While the word “Christian” is not defined in the Bible, it is used in 3 places. One is in Acts 11, where we learn that believers in Christ were first called “Christians” in Antioch. One of the key features of these Christians was that they accepted and heeded prophets who came among them – and this was after the Ascension of Christ. Look at Acts 11:25-30:

      25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul:

      26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

      27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

      28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

      29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

      30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:27pm

      Cont…

      In the above passage, prophets (apparently Christian) from Jerusalem came and prophesied of a coming famine, and the Christian community in Antioch apparently accepted and responded to the message of those prophets by sending relief to their brethren in Judaea. The saints (members of the Church) in Antioch were Christian, and had prophets, after the coming of Christ. Later in Acts 13:1, we again read of prophets being among the Christian community at Antioch:

      Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

      In my opinion, accepting living prophets from God is a vital part of true Christianity, rather than a sign of paganism. The presence of living prophets is a sign of God’s work underway, rather than a sign of evil. It is the absence of apostles and prophets, and continuing revelation itself, that should be a cause for concern among the mainstream Christian churches, as good and noble as many of them may be. Without continued revelation through anointed servants, these churches are like ships without a rudder, depending on human logic and debates among scholars to settle issues and provide guidance.

      Cont…

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on May 1, 2012 at 9:31pm

      Cont…

      No wonder there is such a huge range of ideas among Christian churches on moral and theological issues. Something is missing: guidance through God’s chosen apostles and prophets. But that something has been restored, and the Book of Mormon provides the solid evidence to back the claim.

      I truly have enjoyed these conversations, and thank you for taking the time to read and consider my point of view and respond with well thought out responses. I believe all who took part in this conversation are the better for it. Thanks for your time and efforts.

      My email is: Lux4veritas@hotmail.com if you wish to continue this conversation after the blaze removes the story from circulation.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Thebluespreacher
      Posted on May 10, 2012 at 9:22am

      I‘m saddened by Joel’s statements. As someone who was ordained under his father’s umbrella of ministry I know what his dad believed and taught. I love mormons and pray for them and the president, but cannot agree that Mormons are truly christians. Not the same God, not the same Jesus.

      Report Post »  
  • CCTXCN
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:46am

    This man is a Motivational Speaker not a Religious Leader! I find his ignorance of the Muslim religion shocking! He has no Back Bone to stand up and tell the truth about the Christian Faith and the Muslim Faith! He is building a false Church!

    Report Post »  
    • Listen_then_think
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:08am

      He is practicing priestcraft as he is only interested in making money. If he can’t tell that Obama is absolutely the OPPOSITE of a Christian, then he is buying exactly what the Father of all lies wants him to buy which makes him a blind, kingdom of Satan building priestcrafter.

      Report Post »  
    • AmazingGrace8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:45am

      @cc & listen

      Agree with you both!!!

      Report Post »  
    • Docrow
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:40am

      yup!

      Report Post » Docrow  
    • Citizen_Joe
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:50am

      I agree!

      Report Post » Citizen_Joe  
    • keithivy61
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 7:25pm

      HEY this is turning out better than I had planned…………………………Barry Soetoro

      Report Post »  
    • daxawyes
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:03pm

      So how many true churches are there? All are false buy one.

      Report Post »  
  • VoteRightDammit
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:46am

    Oh, heck ………..

    Even the EPISCOPALIANS think of themselves as “christian” (small “c”).

    Anyone can label themselves anything. Means squat.

    Obama ‘Christian’? Does this mongrel follow The Word???? Heck – more likely he will move to Europe after we eject him, take over the EEC and thus be in position to install himself on the throne in Jerusalem.

    As for Mormons … they appear to be (generally) mighty fine people; much better at emulating Christ than most others. But if you monkey around with The Word and worship some man-made notion of God‘s instructions you can’t, with a straight face, lay claim to being a follower of Christ. Otherwise even the EPISCOPALIANS would be considered “Christians”.

    Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:53am

      If you have not read the Book of Mormon, I would challenge you to do so, and then tell me with a straight face that it is not of Christ.

      Report Post »  
    • ashestoashes
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:19am

      @ABRAHAM YOUNG..What makes you think that the book of Mormon is of Christ? Is it because if we become Mormon..we can get our own planet when we die? and we can become gods? or that we can pray our dead ancestors to a higher plane? There are really neat things about the Mormon faith..such as they the church helps its members in business and they stockpile food and it sounds like a luxury after life..but I will spend my time serving YWVH..you can keep your planet.

      Report Post »  
    • LameLiberals
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:29am

      Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:53am

      If you have not read the Book of Mormon, I would challenge you to do so, and then tell me with a straight face that it is not of Christ.
      ___________

      And how many Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Methodists, Episcopalians, etc ect
      are ALLOWED to read the Book of Mormon or the all important Mormon Doctrine and Covanents?

      Answer: NONE. It is a CHRISTIAN BLASPHEMY to believe that the bible is NOT the ONE/UNCHANGING BOOK OF GOD.

      it is also a CHRISTIAN BLASPHEMY to believe a man or woman after they die could EVER be equal to Jesus Christ let alone become a GOD like He is.

      It would also be ridiculous for ANY of the above Christian sects listed above to EVER – EVER – believe they could continue to have “spirit babies” after they died.

      And NONE of the Christian sects listed above believe they can rule over another planet in the solar system after death AS A GOD. .

      Mormon Romney had a LOT OF GALL to call Newt Gingrich “ZANY” for wanting to continue John Kennedy’s space program and further it by building a colony on the moon WHEN ROMNEY BELIEVES HE CAN BE A GOD AND RULE OVER THE MOON!!!!!!!!

      Report Post »  
    • fightinglee
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:40am

      Go find in the BOM where it says mormons get a planet or will rule over planets. Its not a doctrine of the BOM or of the church. What mormons believe is that they will progress in this life and and afterwords to become more like their Christ, not that they will rule over planets. Like paul said, we are joint heirs with Christ. That is what we believe. Go read the bible and the BOM and learn about it before you talk about it.

      Report Post »  
    • stifroc
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:43am

      @ Abraham Young: I have read the book of Mormon. There are some nice things said in there. However as you apply hermeneutics to text and compare its theology to the theology of the bible you quickly discover significant variances and some down right contradictions to what the bible teaches. The Jesus Christ of the Mormon faith, is a different version of the Jesus from the Bible. Do I hate Mormons? Nope they are great people. I do not classify Mormons as Christians, I classify them as Mormons, and I do not think that is a bad thing.

      Report Post » stifroc  
    • LameLiberals
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:02am

      As for Mormons … they appear to be (generally) mighty fine people;
      ______________
      Buddhists are mighty fine people also but are not Christians either. Being Mighty Fine does NOT make Mormons Christian.

      Report Post »  
    • texasbeta
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:16am

      Based upon your comment, you haven’t a clue what The Word is.

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:48am

      @lameliberals, I’d rather be a might fine non-Christian than a prideful Christian.

      Report Post »  
    • twill5
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:58am

      Romans 8:16-17

      16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

      17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we bsuffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

      Report Post »  
    • VanceUppercut
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:04pm

      @VoteRightDammit

      “Mongrel”? Is that a comment on his mixed race? How Christian of you.

      Report Post »  
    • encinom
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:05pm

      Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:53am
      If you have not read the Book of Mormon, I would challenge you to do so, and then tell me with a straight face that it is not of Christ.
      _____________________
      Like the other testments of the Bible the Book of Mormon was written by a man with an agenda. Only think about the Book of Mormon, is that it is clearly on of the ealr y pieces of Science Fiction. There is zero historical proof for the fantasic claims about lost tribes in America. No, the Book of Mormon was written by a guy that wanted to get his freak on with more than just his wife and needed to find a way to say God approved.

      Report Post »  
    • Gideon300
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:25pm

      Twill:

      Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we bsuffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

      If you studied the Bible better you would have a better grasp for what is being said here. Christians are the body of Christ and Christ is the head, and we become one. Earthly marriage is symbolic of this relationship. However, we are never equal to Christ. Christ is God and we are God’s creation.

      Report Post »  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:55pm

      Abraham Young: I think you miss the point. If a Christian you live for The Word, which is The Bible. Any time ANYONE rewrites that into another version it is not The Word. Heck – one needs to even be meticulously careful about what TRANSLATION one uses since most are not faithful to what was given to us by God. The not only applies to Mormons (with their version), but other religions.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:58pm

      Joey8: Shame you would rather be “a fine person than an average Christian”. You miss the entire point.

      You live for “here” – want to be a ‘fine’ person here. But if salvation depends not one whit on your own deeds but on grace alone, being ‘fine’ is of no help. If you have not surrendered to and accepted Christ you are in for a long, hot eternity. So sorry, but there it is.

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • VoteRightDammit
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:00pm

      VanceUppercut

      “Mongrel”? Is that a comment on his mixed race? How Christian of you.
      ——————————————

      Wasn’t what I was thinking, but interesting you would jump to that conclusion.

      Racist much?

      Report Post » VoteRightDammit  
    • maccow
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:44pm

      @AbrahamYoung
      The LDS church does an excellent job at teaching their doctrines to their believers and I commend you for standing up to defend your faith.
      Understand that the LDS theology is not consistent with the rest of Christendom. We use many of the same terms, but those terms get defined differently. Just accusing non-Mormon’s of not understanding the BOM is not enough. Have you ever read a basic Christian Theology text book, such as Charles C. Ryrie’s “Basic Theology”?
      If, as you say, the BOM is consistent with the Bible, then why is it necessary? If their is a new revelation from God that adds too the old, then in order to accept it as scripture it must be 100% consistent. But wasn’t Joseph Smith told by the angle Moroni that all the creeds of Christendom were in error and that he was being given the only true faith? Did God get it wrong the first try?
      “Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, today, and forever.” Hebrew 13:8
      “For I [am] the LORD, I do not change;” Malachi 3:6
      For my brothers and sisters in Christ, Paul teaches us the following concerning Mormons;
      “I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.” Galatians 1:6-8

      Report Post » maccow  
    • saranda
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:37pm

      Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:53am
      If you have not read the Book of Mormon, I would challenge you to do so, and then tell me with a straight face that it is not of Christ.
      ——————————-
      Read the Book of Mormon, twice through actually. In my opinion it is not as you say it is.

      Report Post »  
    • dcubed
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 11:50pm

      When you say, “But if you monkey around with The Word and worship some man-made notion of God‘s instructions you can’t, with a straight face, lay claim to being a follower of Christ,” you were referring to the Council of Nicaea in AD 325 under the direction of the Roman Emperor Constantine I, right???

      Report Post »  
    • MacPharlan
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:20am

      Sorry folks, the Book of Mormon Confirms the Bible, it does not take it away. It testifies of Christ and gives assurance that the Bible is indeed true (and the other way around), hand in hand they show two testaments of the Son of God.

      You cannot condem this book if you have read it with an open mind, for if you had you would have been drawn closer to Christ, not further away. It does not demean your faith but confirm it.

      No way in He** could an uneducated farm boy create such a book, let alone many scholars. You folks spew talking points worse than the liberals out there, in fact you act just like them and their hatred for anything conservative.

      You believe in the Trinity (not a bible doctrine), we believe the Godhead (Father, Son, Holy Ghost), three separate beings, ALL God! Jesus and the Father have Bodies, we are in that image! We are their children! God is like his Christ, and yes, we can become like our savior, is that not our goal? To be like him, to learn of him, so when he returns we see him as he is? If your his child, created in his image, what are you going to do for all eternity? Blow a horn? You are an intelligent being? Why, you are the son/daughter of God and have ETERNITY to learn from him!

      Sit and blow your horn, I’ll enjoy the music. Call it crazy, but boy it just makes sense, what a waste of eternity otherwise.

      Report Post »  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:21am

      @ LameLiberals I would like to refer you to my post above.

      Report Post » Lux  
    • Lux
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 5:59am

      I would invite you to consider the comments of President Gordon B. Hinckley at the April 2000 General Conference, entitled “My Testimony.”

      (http://www.deseretnews.com/cn/cnf/view/1,2141,80000976,00.html)

      Can any sincere person read those powerful words and wonder if that man is not a Christian, or if this Church is not all about following the living Christ, our Savior and Redeemer?

      Report Post » Lux  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 9:33am

      Yo MacPharlin,

      The bible needs NO outside source to confirm it. It testifies unto itself. Which makes absolute sence and is very wise. Why? because it leaves NO chance for arguement. In doing what you do (which you refuse to see) you put the book of Morman above the bible ….bad move! Every Morman I have ever spoken with does this.

      I have read it …. and shook my head in disbelief (does this mean I’m NOT saved)?
      I have also read TRUTHFUL books on WHO Smith was prior to … he was not just a dumb farm boy.

      The trinity …we KNOW that it’s not in the bible …second you are not correct about what most “christians” believe concerning this … third, God the Father is spirit not flesh as was Jesus prior to being the “first born” of God and comming in the flesh. So, being ceated in the image of God does not speak to the flesh.
      We do agree that we are to be like Christ in action and deed … so what does that make us when we seem to have a different Christ ?
      I have a concern for you, not a hatred.

      Report Post »  
    • MacPharlan
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:25am

      @4truth2all,

      Good conversation, I enjoy it.

      So Christ has a body of flesh and bone, why do you think his Father does not? He said he ‘does nothing but what he has seen the father do’. Also, before he was resurected, he said “be perfect as my father which is in heaven is perfect” (going from memory her, so bear with), AFTER he is resurrected and has a glorified body, he says, “be perfect as I AM Perfect”.

      Seems like resurrected body is part of that.

      As for just believing the bible because it is the bible, after going through school and learning how the bible was compiled and preserved and all the ‘mucking’ that the Catholic Bishops did with it, I only believe it because of my relationship with God, as with anything that I want to know if it comes from God. I pray about it and seek his guidance.

      God speed to you my friend. We may have different ‘interpretations’ of what the Godhead is, but one thing I do believe. Jesus is the Literal son of God in the flesh, the only one and is the Savior of the world, ONLY through HIM are we saved.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 11:26am

      Yo Macpharland:

      I don’t deny the saved receive a glorified ressurected body ….never spoke to it.
      God the Father is spirit becaues scripture say’s he is …
      Jesus seeing the Father … it is a figure of speech … we don’t see with our eyeballs we see with our spirit. We are called to walk in the spirit
      perfect = obedience …. not sure what you’re point is there ?

      The idea that the bible is screwed up is a lie from the devil, and mormans seem to by into it, and the unbelieving world uses this ALL the time. So you aline yourself with them on this issue ( that is concerning !) I have studied the history of the gathering together of the 66 books and to this present day .. and I trust that God is as capable at the least as I am of overseeing His own book to publication. I am not like Smith who said that “he” needed to FIX / CORRECT it. Is this why you question it’s validity? Because when yo do that you give the devil a foothold, and scripture say’s DO NOT give the devil a foothold … cause he won’t stop there!
      You’re last paragraph does indeed give me hope for you … stick to one book … it‘s all that’s needed to be perfect ….peace

      Report Post »  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 6:00pm

      @Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:53am

      If you have not read the Book of Mormon, I would challenge you to do so, and then tell me with a straight face that it is not of Christ.
      ——–
      I have and it is NOT OF CHRIST!!!!
      Totally antithetical to sound Godly,biblical doctrine.
      I have several Mormon friends…they are good people … lost as geese in high weeds but good people.
      The truth of who and what Yeshua (Jesus) is (not was) is absolutely key to life and salvation.
      Jesus is NOT a men who became a god but he is God who became a man. This is key and anything else is NOT Christianity.
      Read your own book and the teachings of your leaders then read the only authoritative word of God (the bible) and then say that again.

      Report Post » Favored93  
  • Hearmenow2
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:46am

    What do you expect from Joel Olstein when he does not know Jesus himself

    Report Post »  
    • Favored93
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 6:17pm

      Wow that is a statement I do not think you have the authority to make.
      I do not agree with a lot of what the man has said but I do not think you can say he does not know Christ.
      I believe he does have fruit that shows repentance. His salvation is not your call. Is he wrong a lot? … I would say yes. Does he know Jesus?…. I don‘t really know and I don’t think you have the authority to say he does not. You and I can call him out when he preaches something wrong but man his salvation is between Jesus and himself.
      We can call out the Mormons or the JW’s ect when they preach wrong doctrine but let Jesus say who He does and does not know.

      Report Post » Favored93  
  • GrandmaNRichmondTX
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:42am

    Why would anyone care what osteen says? And for heaven’s sake, stop calling him Pastor. He is not an ordained minister. He’s a shyster – just like obama. Can’t stand either one of them.

    Report Post »  
    • HairRazor
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:03pm

      You said it grandma. In fact, if you look real close, this dude Osteen has some dried brown flakes around his nose. I believe he will attend the Great White Throne Judgement with many’ a so called pastor. Bottom line to all this is that Satan has and will continue, as long as he is allowed, to decieve whom he may. Guard your heart and keep your eyes on Jesus (the only One who offers hope for the world).

      Report Post » HairRazor  
  • momrules
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:40am

    I find it almost as hard to watch Joel Osteen as I do Obama. Both men give me the creeps.

    And by the way…….Obama is a Muslim.

    Report Post »  
    • GrandmaNRichmondTX
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:43am

      Both of them give me the heebie-jeebies.

      Report Post »  
    • LameLiberals
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:21am

      GrandmaNRichmondTX
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:43am

      Both of them give me the heebie-jeebies.
      __________
      Exactly!

      Report Post »  
    • valmak
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:23am

      You are so right. Obama makes me angry and Osteen makes me want to vomit!

      Report Post »  
  • sawbuck
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:36am

    “I believe with all my heart that he’s a Christian, as he says he is,” Osteen maintained. “[Obama] says he is [a Christian]. Again, I wouldn’t try to push people away
    ~~~~~~~~

    Joel …You are a false prophet..

    2 timothy 4:2-4
    2Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
    3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
    4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

    Report Post » sawbuck  
    • mike_trivisonno
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:44am

      Obama is a muslim, not a Christian.

      Other muslim friends of Obama include Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farahkhan, Van Jones, Eric Holder, and “Reverend”.

      Report Post » mike_trivisonno  
    • hopefulmainer
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:45am

      I would actually have to doubt Joel Olsteens Christianity.. He doesn’t exactly preach truth.. His “chirstianity” is all touchy feely lovey dovey give me money and God will bless you! All these “blessings” he says that God has for us are remarkably similar to what I get tempted with.. A complete false prophet!

      Report Post »  
    • Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:52am

      Mormons ARE indeed Christians.

      Anyone who says differently is deceived. Anyone.

      The Book of Mormon contains the teachings of Christ through and through.

      Report Post »  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:26am

      Yo Abraham:

      I just met Jesus in the forrest and my latter days of the latter days book is comming to bookshelves near you … no disrespect intended …

      Report Post »  
    • LameLiberals
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:39am

      Abraham Young
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:52am

      Mormons ARE indeed Christians.

      Anyone who says differently is deceived. Anyone.

      The Book of Mormon contains the teachings of Christ through and through.
      __________

      Was this before or after Christ walked North American and hob knobbed with the Indians?
      Did the Mormon Jesus – whose biological brother was the devil (Devil as in son of Mother Mary) also tag along on that North America stroll?

      Please – pull another rabbit out of a hat like Mormons did their book. The Christian bible was written hundreds of years BEFORE the book of Mormon or the Mormon doctrine and covenants were ever literally pulled out the bottom of some mortal man’s hat.

      I do NOT care what Mormons believe – they can believe cows fly for all I care – BUT do NOT say they are Christians because they are no more Christians than Muslims.

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:04am

      @LameLiberals
      WOW, if you are going to attack my faith, at least you could try to add some truth to your lies. Jesus was the brother of Satan by Mary? Hmm, thats a funny one that I have never heard before. The Book of Mormon was written hundreds of years after the Bible? Hmm, I suppose you do not understand the American system for guaginge the passage of time.

      Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:17am

      Abraham, when people start adding chapters to the Bible 1,800 years after the fact, it makes people suspicious. Not you or anyone else is going to convince the majority of Christians that the teachings of Joseph Smith are Biblical. I respect your faith, please respect ours.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • P8riot
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:47pm

      @Gonzo – come on Gonzo, you’re one of the most logical people here. You can’t tell me that the “Mormons” are not the ones simply defending their religion here. Count the number of posts where the mormon religion is being individually attacked – then count the number of posts by mormons attacking another individual religion… EVERY post from a mormon is simply trying to correct false accusations or give their reasoning why they believe what they believe. I can’t find a single mormon post naming the Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, or any other single religion and attacking their beliefs.

      Thus, we respect your faith, can you and everyone else that has specifically made statements why our faith is wrong – please respect ours?

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • justin.blake
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 3:13pm

      OK…lets break this down. First of all, the adding the books thing…do I have to say it all again? The Bible as we know it was not even a book until WAY after Christ left this earth. The whole ‘adding or taking away’ argument falls flat on its face when you actually study the history of the Bible itself, and realize that Johns book of Revelations was written before 3 of the 4 gospels. He meant not to add anything to what he wrote, not to the Bible. As far as Satan being Christs brother, spirit babies, etc. I will ask YOU to explain. Where did our spirits come from? Where did Satan come from? If you have a better explanation than ‘ex nihilo’, or ‘they have always existed’, or ‘God made them’ I would love to hear it. Did God make Satan? Why would he ‘make’ evil? So many of you here ridicule the theology of the LDS church while either not really even understanding it or not having any better explanation than they do. And lastly, what some of you call ‘not Biblical’ is simply based on one or another Christian sects interpretation of Biblical teaching. So let me hear YOUR explanations people!

      Report Post » justin.blake  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:50pm

      Yo Justin:
      How about if we let God be God … all knowing
      When John was having his visions and writing it down was it insired by God?
      If you believe this is true,
      is it not possible that God had this whole thing figured and knew that at some point in time there would be a book called the bible consisting of 66 smaller “books” many of which are nothing more then letters and not really books at all . So when John is writing ALL this down he has NO idea of the future plans of God. Thus the idea of not adding or subtracting ( Deut.) is God talking about the entirity of HIS WORD, NOT PARTS OF IT. John does not know this, he just does as the spirit leads. Non of these men had ANY idea of the completed plans of God in forming a book, called the bible.

      Why would God make sure or warn that only PARTS of it are not to be tampered with. Dude, would you do that if you wrote a book ? No, you don’t want anybody messing with any of it.

      Another point : If Joseph Smith can do it, why can’t Bob, Bill, or Bertha!
      1+0=1
      1+1=1 will NEVER be true , sorry … that is just simple math
      It is not just these verses that apply there are many others that speak to this issue.

      Also: Satan was not created evil and Jesus was NOT created at all …

      Report Post »  
    • HairRazor
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:27pm

      ABRAHAM YOUNG. Give it up. The Book of Mormon contends that to be saved (welcomed in God’s Kingdom) you have to be certified by Joseph “A” Smith. Tell me I’m wrong. Tell me this is not pure rude/crude blasphemy. Tell me those words are not unadulterated ‘Satanic Verses’… and yes there is a dark parallel with the Quoran.

      Report Post » HairRazor  
    • justin.blake
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:35pm

      @4Truth – Lets! I am totally cool with God being all knowing, omnipresent, omnipotent, etc. So lets also then accept that as humans, we cannot know all of his plans, nor do we have the authority to say things like “God no longer speaks to man through Prophets”. If he is never changing, and his Word is the same yesterday, today, and forever, then one would logically surmise that His method of speaking to His children through prophets called by Him would also continue (Amos 3:7). Do YOU or any other human have the knowledge that God did NOT send a resurrected Christ to His children that lived on the American continent at the same time as the Jews and Romans? Or can you also accept that he MAY have done that, unbeknownst to Matthew, Luke, Mark and the rest of His apostles? He did allude to that when he was leaving that ‘I have other sheep who are not of this fold. Them must I also bring, and they shall hear my voice, and there shall be one fold and one shepherd.’ Do you have the hubris to quantify and limit God himself? And as far at the 66 books…depends on what Christian sect you ask..some claim as many as 81 to be divine. So who is right?

      Report Post » justin.blake  
    • justin.blake
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 5:46pm

      @Hairrazor…Ill just say it. You are wrong. Not just wrong, but WAY wrong. But heck, you sound like you know more about my religion than I do, so what do I know?

      Report Post » justin.blake  
    • P8riot
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 6:29pm

      @HAIRRAZOR – you’re wrong. you can’t just say things without citation – you have no citation because there is no authority to back you up. this must be the new anti-mormon technique – tell a lie and see if it sticks.

      Report Post » P8riot  
    • 4truth2all
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 6:34pm

      Yo Justin:

      I think I did state as to NOT limiting an infinite God.
      So ,if God is All POWERFUL, etc, is he not capable of writing a book to completion. By you’re “logic” why not 82, 103 or 2000 books to add to it, and who and when. As far as the others, simple …. for God so loved the world that whoever….in fact you speak to the point I was making about the plans of God being beyond men, BUT NOT AGAINST SCRIPUTRE. Being in ministry and called to youth there are others in this city also called to this that I am totally ignorant of but they exist.

      As far as “another ” christ … yes I do know this as no mention is made of it in scripture and quite frankly makes no sence as Jesus was human and a human can only exist at one place at a time and only once … and this is why christians have a problem with you’re faith and that you call yourselves christians … just sayin…

      Report Post »  
  • Dougral Supports Israel
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:35am

    Osteen should look a little closer at Obama’s deeds. He has been a divider, not a uniter. He has weakened America in many ways since he has taken office. It’s obvious this is deliberate. He is destroying our energy industries, has contributed to instability in the Middle East, and fails to defend our borders. He is so worried about the “feelings” of our enemies that he forbids frank discussion of Islamic terrorism within the federal government. He and his minions call Americans who disagree with him “terrorists” and “racists”. Can anyone truthfully say this man has been a good shepherd or a good steward? Is weakening your own nation and thus betraying your own people something a leader who is filled with Christ would do? Wake up and smell the coffee, Osteen.

    Report Post »  
    • DYNA
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:03am

      The Democratic party is the largest organization in the USA that is anti Christ, (Christ meaning the Anointed One Who is anointed with the burden removing, yoke destroying power of God), as they are anti Bible/ anti Word of God. They are in lock step with the ACLU which should mean Anti Christian Litigation Unit. The Democrats largely endorse sin and despise godliness as they have come to reverence the creation and not the Creator. This has resulted in their minds being darkened to the Truth and they condone that which is loathsome. They embrace sin while rejecting the Redeemer and His redemption from sin.
      In the judgment there are those who will say to Him look at what we did in Your Name, and Jesus will cast them off saying, I never knew you.

      It is not coincidence that Obama said disparagingly, they cling to their Bibles and to their guns.

      Report Post »  
  • NickDeringer
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:33am

    This man is a fraud. Dear Lord, save your church from fales propehts.

    Report Post » NickDeringer  
    • JDoke
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:27am

      Does Joel Osteen claim to be a prophet? Does he say you have to give him money to be saved? Do you think he is doing more harm than good because he doesn’t condemn anyone? Are people rioting in the streets because of his message? Set me straight here.

      Report Post » JDoke  
    • tym211
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:13pm

      “Does Joel Osteen claim to be a prophet?” – Do you not understand the correlation in the Bible between prophet and teacher (pastor)?

      “Does he say you have to give him money to be saved?” – No one claimed that he did, however, he does preach a “gospel” of prosperity which is totally contradictory to everything that Jesus said about the DESIRE for wealth and money.

      “Do you think he is doing more harm than good because he doesn’t condemn anyone?” – YES!! As a “pastor” it is his duty to “Preach the word; be prepared in season and out of season; correct, rebuke and encourage—with great patience and careful instruction.” – 2 Timothy 4:2

      “Are people rioting in the streets because of his message?” – This is by no means the benchmark of a successful and righteous pastor. In fact, Jesus said that he came to divide people, that families would be torn apart because of Him, and that his believers would experience all kinds of hatred, persecution, and suffering at the hands of non-believers. So in that sense, the very fact that everyone seems to “love” his message is what points to it being a false gospel. The natural man (with his natural desires for wealth, health and prosperity) does not accept the things of the Spirit, they are foolishness to him – 1 Corinthians 2:14. The true gospel is not simply a self-help guide. Anyone who believes it is will truly have their “Best Life Now,” in THIS world only.

      “Set me straight here.” – Done.

      Report Post »  
  • kcares
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:31am

    Prove that Odummer is a Christian.

    Report Post » kcares  
    • Windwalker
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:16am

      Good point….let him share with all of us his personal testimony and allegiance to his belief in the birth, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ and the saving power of that sacrifice. Olsteen, making the statements regarding Mormonism and Obama, cheapens the holiness and majesty of the work of the cross.

      Report Post »  
    • hillplus
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:20pm

      What would that prove, windwalker?? Romney already did that. Do you believe him?

      Report Post »  
  • NOBALONEY
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:30am

    Smiley face preaching.

    Report Post » NOBALONEY  
  • BLAZENewser
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:30am

    This guy is the next Jim and Tammy Baker!

    Report Post »  
  • NewLife56
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:29am

    I’m a Baptist, but believe that the Mormons just need some nudging. They are close but they need to be treated with care and led to the total truth of Christ. Don’t bash them guys, meet with some of them and explain the truth about the trinity. Again, they are not that far off, and hopefully will be just a small gap to tell them about.

    Lets lead them, not bash them. Most of them are devoted unlike many Christians claim to be but don’t practice the truth themselves.Sometimes, we are the ONLY Bible people will read.

    Report Post » NewLife56  
    • Conserving Ink
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:41am

      Strangely enough Brother Newlife, that’s how we Mormons view Baptists. You are so close! LOL Its got to be a Brothers in Christ thing. And everybody knows no one can pick on my brother but me! Love ya.

      Report Post » Conserving Ink  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:43am

      I’m Mormon, send me an email I like discussing the trinity. wrastler8(AT)juno(DOT)com

      Report Post »  
    • Texan
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:55am

      Excellent point. I had the privilege to interview a long time business acquaintance and a Bishop of the LDS Church in Mesa, AZ a few years ago for a college paper on the Mormon faith. I came away totally non-judgmental because of the way they live their lives on a daily basis and their strong values. I could care less what their Christian interpretations are.

      Report Post » Texan  
    • LameLiberals
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:33am

      NewLife56
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:29am

      I’m a Baptist, but believe that the Mormons just need some nudging
      __________
      Naive!!!!!!!!!!!
      They are TOO FAR from Christianity to be Christians.
      Read my web links posted.

      Report Post »  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:49am

      The truth of the Trinity is undeniable in scripture. I could provide a mountain of evidence starting with Genesis 1:1 all the way through Revelations. Jesus openly claimed to be not only God but equal with His Father which often led to the pharisees wanting to stone Him because they knew exactly what He was saying. “Verily I say unto you, before Abraham was, I AM.” I seem to remember God calling Himself I AM in Exodus. In Isaiah and Revelations, the angels cry Holy, Holy, Holy. Wonder why they always say it three times. 3 days and 3 nights in the earth, Jesus asked Peter 3 times if He loved Him, soon after Peter denied Jesus 3 times! That is but a fraction. Jesus “thought it not robbery made himself equal with God”.

      Mormons seem to not differentiate Jesus the man, and Jesus the Almighty God. God humbled Himself and took on the form of a man. A man did not become a god lesser than that of the Father. Jesus claim to create everything. Jesus will judge everything. JESUS IS GOD! Amen

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:57am

      All that said, mormans are good and decent people. I have morman friends. But, you cannot call yourself a pastor and equivocate protestant or fundamental christianity with mormons, jehovah’s witnesses, seven day adventists, and though they believe in the Trinity, catholics. Because we disagree doesn‘t mean we don’t like or respect the people. (Some of my very favorite people are catholics and I‘m not saying all catholics aren’t christians. I‘m saying their church’s teachings on alot of things is unbiblical. C.S. Lewis was a catholic and I consider him one the greatest advocate of christianity to ever live.) It means we disagree with major points of their doctrine.

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:10am

      The problem with the nicean creed’s post-apostolic interpretation of the Godhead is that it ignores verses where Jesus clearly distinguishes himself from His Father. After Jesus had risen from the tomb and spoke with Mary, he told her to tell the others that he was going to “…my Father and your Father, my God and your God”. When Jesus spoke of being one with the Father, he explained ” That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us”. It isn’t a mystery.

      Report Post »  
    • Nasado
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:11am

      @SquidVetOhio
      I would encourage you to study to Mormons faith when it comes to the Trinity because from your post, you do not understand it. I can support our faiths belief with all the scriptures you gave and understand what it means. If you look into how we support or beliefs then you would understand (maybe not agree but at least see our point of view, which more people need to do with differing beliefs). I

      Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:55am

      @squid
      Went to encyclopedia brittanica online and looked up trinity. Here was the first sentence. “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament”.

      Report Post »  
    • DYNA
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:02pm

      God the Father corrects those whom He loves. His Holy Spirit reveals, declares, discloses everything has been given to Jesus. Jesus is the Word of God and the Holy Spirit and His Word are One. Those who esteem Him esteem His Word. Those who worship Him and prayerfully seek to know Him through His Word engage His Holy Spirit for reproof and correction in power. He will reveal what is of Him in order to reject what is of this world or of man. Even though the Word of God is power of God for Salvation, the religious tradition’s of man have made the Word of God of no effect in the lives of those who are not corrected. Those who are honest with God, as they draw close to Him, will be taught by Him with reproof and correction. Do not get wrapped up in the consensus of man.
      Those who are lead by the Spirit of God are the children of God

      Those who love Him will be honest with Him and subject themselves to His correction. The revelation of God is what His real church is built on. Those who love Him will choose His power over those who just exhibit a form of godliness but deny His power. God will work with those who want His way and not their own.
      I think Abraham, the father of the Christian faith came from a culture of star worshippers. If God could change him, He can change me.

      Report Post »  
    • Gideon300
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:48pm

      Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:10am

      “The problem with the nicean creed’s post-apostolic interpretation of the Godhead is that it ignores verses where Jesus clearly distinguishes himself from His Father. ”

      Joey, Matthew 28:19. If what you say is true, then, what Jesus is saying in Matthew 28:19 is that there is 3 separate Gods that Christians are accepting, and this is false. Just because the word “Trinity” never appears in the Bible is proof of nothing. The word “Rapture” never appears in the Greek texts either, but the word is accurate.

      People such as yourself have no understanding of how God works. God is absolutely in three parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You see all three in John chapter 1, compare this with Genesis chapter 1. The number 3 signifies perfection. The number 7 signifies completion. This is why the number of God is 777, He is completely perfect.

      Mormons, such as yourself, view Jesus as a created being, which is so absolutely wrong! This is why Mormons state Jesus and Lucifer are brothers. Lucifer IS a created being, Jesus is not, he is Alpha and Omega, he is the beginning and the end. Again, go read John chapter 1.

      Report Post »  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:56pm

      @squid
      Went to encyclopedia brittanica online and looked up trinity. Here was the first sentence. “Neither the word Trinity nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament”.

      Straw man argument. The word rapture never appears, the word dinosaur never appears, the word abortion never appears. More importantly, the name Maroni never appears. You gotta come better than that.

      Secondly Jesus did extinquish Himself from His Father. You apparently don’t understand our doctrine concerning the Trinity. One God in three separate entities. I can’t explain it logically, it is infinite and inconceivable as God is. The best I can describe is water. A drop of water can be liquid, ice, or steam by their makeup is never changed. H20 = H20 = H20. Buy denying the Trinity means that Jesus was either a blashpemer or a liar. He and his apostles claimed he created everything. THe bible then claims that God created all things for Him (Jesus). The ONLY way both are true is if Jesus is the Almighty God the same being as God the Father is separate form.

      While on earth, Jesus took upon himself the life of a man and humbled himself to the authority of His father. It is Christ who sits on the Throne in Judgment, but Jesus said His Father would judge us. If they are not the same then one of them is false. You can’t get past that.

      Finally, the apostle Paul warned that if any other man or ANGEL came preaching another gospel, they should be accursed (anathama in the greek).

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 2:43pm

      @squid
      how is it a strawman argument. You are claiming that my beliefs aren‘t biblical because they aren’t in the Bible. I‘m telling you that the trinity isn’t biblical because not only is the word not found, but the teaching isn’t found. You conveniently skipped that part of the encyclopedia reference. You guys still ignore the scripture where Jesus says the the Father is “…my Father and your Father, my God and your God”. I reject the creeds of men.

      Report Post »  
  • SpankDaMonkey
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:27am

    .
    Another Fake TV Preacher…..He’s in it for the money…………

    Report Post » SpankDaMonkey  
  • SageInWaiting
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:26am

    Osteen… the few times I’ve seen a few minutes of his show, my spirit got the eebie-jeebies. I’ll leave it at that and not judge further. He is free to speak; I’ll chose not to listen.

    Report Post » SageInWaiting  
  • BLAZENewser
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:25am

    I always had my doubts about this guy and now I know they are confirmed. He IS a false prophet. He teaches things that are not the Truth. He does not divide the word properly and is more concerned with His personal fame than that of trully reaching the lost with God’s Truth. Theology is highly important. I could call my deceased dog Jesus. Then I could say that Jesus (my deceased dog) He is my personal savior and use all the classical language of True Christianity. That does not make me a Christian. Because I would not be praying to Jesus the only Begotten of God. I would be praying to a creature. Jesus is not a Creature. He is the only Begotten. Mormans believe Jesus is the Brother of a creature Satan. Therefore they pray to a God that is not the Only Begotten. Just like I would be praying to a dead dog. I would not get any salvation from that. I would be wrong just like Joel Osteen. As far as Obama…His God is not Jesus either. His “Fruits” expose that he is not a Christian. Our country needs a serious revivial that only God can bring or I am afraid we are doomed to the annals of history.

    Report Post »  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:41am

      @Blazenewser
      “Therefore they pray to a God that is not the Only Begotten”

      Actually, we don’t pray to Jesus Christ, we pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ as Jesus taught in the Bible. Jesus said “After this manner therefore pray ye” then began with “Our Father…”. He reaffirmed later that our Father in Heaven is “…my Father and your Father, my God and your God”. So please don’t use that lie anymore, try another one.

      Report Post »  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:39am

      @JOEY8

      We believe Jesus ( God the Son ) is equal to God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. The Trinity is there from the very first verse of the Bible. The word “God” in Genesis 1:1 in the original hebrew is the word “elohim” which is the plural form of “el” which means “God”. Why would Moses use the plural form? Why would God say “Let us make man in our image”? We pray in Jesus name too. “He who glorified the Son, glorifies the Father”. John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.”

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 10:18am

      @squid
      Only problem is Jesus himself said that the Father is greater and that the Father was His God. ” Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.”. I believe Jesus created this earth and I believe he is the great Jehovah, but he never said he was equal with the Father, post-apostolic men came to that conclusion

      Report Post »  
    • Oldmantex
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 12:24pm

      Joey
      Your answer about Christ being God is found in Philippians 2: 5-8. It is a very well known passage in the Bible and explains how Christ was God and Man.

      Report Post » Oldmantex  
    • SquidVetOhio
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 1:03pm

      @JOEY8

      Are you claiming the Paul was not an apostle?

      Phillipians 2:6-8
      6Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

      7But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

      8And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

      Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
    • Joey8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 4:35pm

      @yousillyguys
      Your problem is that you think me reaffirming that Jesus said the Father is greater than He is somehow takes away from Christ. How does adding glory to the Father take away from His Son? I already stated that I believe that Christ is God the Son, the Jehovah of the Old Testament who created this earth. I believe that they are two separate beings, just as Stephen said when he saw Jesus at the right hand of God. I reject your creeds formed in councils of men.

      Report Post »  
    • FIREPROOF
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:00am

      @joey

      I’m a follow of Jesus Christ and just wanted to share with you a bit. I understand your point of view of creeds made by men as I too do not believe anything written by men other than the God inspired or breathed, (2 Timothy 3:16) 66 books.
      The deity of Jesus Christ is quite complicated to understand without God the Holy Spirit, Prayer and meditating on scripture. Picking out scripture to fit ones belief is all to common in this day and age. But If you can believe Jesus is the Son of God because scripture says so, I’d also assume you would believe in all of it if givin the chance to study with someone who knows the Word. Jesus is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Co Equal, One God, 3 different personas as He came here and humbled himself and dwelt amongst us ( John 1:14)

      In His humanity, Christ prayed to the Father to show the proper duties of man, to worship, pray and adore God (Phil 2;6-8). (Ex 34:14) “For thou shalt worship no other God; for the Lord is a jealous God”. Jesus even tells Satan “Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt you serve” (Matt 4:10). The point I make here is that time after time, Jesus accepted worship from many according to scripture. I have a list if you want it, He wouldn‘t accept worship it if He wasn’t FULLY God in the flesh.

      Isaiah 9:6 “For us a child is born, to us a son is given and the gov’t shall be on his shoulders,He will be called WONDERFUL COUNSELOR, MIGHTY GOD,EVERLASTING FATHER, PRINCE

      Report Post »  
  • Texan
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:24am

    I‘m going to stretch out and just let ’er rip this morning. Call me a conspiracy nut, kook or whatever, but this is what I believe, and have believed since 2008. I cannot put the “name” Barack Hussein Obama and Christian in the same sentence. It just doesn’t make sense to me. Obama is a pathological liar, has not proven his citizenship and poses the biggest threat to the survival of the U.S. Constitution and Christianity in the U.S. today. All he had to say during his ‘08 campaign to scare me to death was 2 words, “fundamentally transform.” That was the red flag for me. He has not veered from that mission either. I pray enough citizens wake up and vote to remove this America hater from office in 2012. To ensure we reverse course in 2013 and beyond, the next election must be convincing, not unlike the Reagan/Carter landslide.

    Report Post » Texan  
    • wakeus_com
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:59am

      When are you going to start saying something that could be considered kooky?

      Report Post » wakeus_com  
    • SovereignSoul
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:55am

      You sir, are a bearer of false witness. You most certainly can use the words Obama and christian in the same sentence as evidenced by sentence number 3. May God have mercy on your soul.

      Report Post » SovereignSoul  
  • SquidVetOhio
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:24am

    I see Joel Olsteen as a book-selling heretic. The Book of Jude (Jesus’ brother) warns of people like him.

    Report Post » SquidVetOhio  
  • misteryuck
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:16am

    I guess Osteen has been Oprah-ized….

    Whoa to those that call good evil and evil good….

    Report Post » misteryuck  
    • Scarbo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:37am

      “Whoa to those…..” Good grief, now I’ve seen it all.

      Report Post »  
  • KAWLME
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:15am

    I was watching Joel one sunday about 6 to 8 months ago. I turned off the TV because he was talking about mormons and helping to spread lies about the mormons. Which is it Joel? Are you a christian?

    Report Post » KAWLME  
  • AJAYW
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:11am

    Sorry Pastor Joel Osteen but obama is a muslim – your either a idiot or stupid

    Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:13am

      He’s a Marxist atheist. The only god he worships is himself.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • AJAYW
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:25am

      GONZO
      He sure supports the Muslim Brotherhood, I think that we can both agree on this : He Fits this to a T
      Hubris (hu·bris), also hybris, means extreme haughtiness, pride or arrogance. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one’s own competence or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power.

      Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:34am

      AJ, I think that’s just the communist heathen in him trying to “level the playing field” between the U.S. and Muslim world. Who knows though? Your guess is as good as mine.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • hi
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:00am

      I don’t think he is Muslim because Michelle wears the pants in that marriage. I guess the marriage could be a facade.

      Report Post » hi  
    • hillbillyinny
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 10:08pm

      Obama’s father was a (nonpracticing) Muslim, therefore, due to male inheritance of religious faith in Islam, Obama is a Muslim (lapsed, maybe. . . , but still very supportive!!!

      Olsteen preaches the gospel of “good and plenty,” and the God of LDS (Mormon) teaching is NOT my God of the Bible (my God was never human, nor does he have “spirit children” with multiple wives that he sends down to earth. . . ). The LDS Jesus is not the Son of God, the Word (communication part of God), that is witnessed to in the Bible. LDS teaches that Jesus is a “brother to Satan,“ which would be an impossibility since Satan is a ”Fallen Angel,“ and angels are never considered ”brothers” to humans, even Jesus who was half human and half God through the Holy Spirit. And my God is in an eternal covenant with Himself, the Son and the Spirit,which we call on this earth “the Trinity.”

      Are LDS members “Christian”? I guess since they believe that salvation comes through the Atonement of Jesus, they could be, (however, they do believe the sweat/blood shed in the Garden is of a high degree of importance, rather than the blood shed in His death on the Cross, I do have some problems with this theology). And the need for “perfection” rather than the goal of perfection does trouble me as too strong a concentration on works (tithing, attendance, temple work, etc.).

      I pray for all and do know that God will straighten out the theologies ultimately!

      Report Post »  
  • disenlightened
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:06am

    Take that….!!!

    Report Post » disenlightened  
  • Gonzo
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:06am

    All that toothy geek needs is a sequined suit and some cowboy boots.

    Report Post » Gonzo  
  • hauschild
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:05am

    This dude embodies everything WRONG with this country. Crooked as a dog’s hind leg.

    Report Post »  
    • Welcome Black Carter
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:28am

      He knows what people want to hear. He accomplished at getting people to open up…
      their wallets.

      Report Post » Welcome Black Carter  
  • CrazyChuck
    Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:04am

    Osteen has a captivating smile and I suppose good looks and I opine he is a multimillionaire because he is like our president able to smooth talk all us sinners into thinking no matter what we think or do there is no real consequences. Could we be talking about another anti-Christ?

    Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:17am

      I have taken the time to watch him a couple of times. He can get through an entire sermon without even mentioning Christ. It’s some kind of Christianity for Dummies”. If you are looing for real Christianity on TV check out John Hagee. He’s not a TV preacher, just a preacher who happens to be on TV.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • momrules
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:27am

      Gonzo………..you are right about both Osteen and John Hagee. I won’t listen to Osteen but I do listen to Hagee every week. Hagee is the kind of preacher that every church should have.

      Report Post »  
    • Gonzo
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:36am

      Amen Mom, He’s another good reason to move to Texas.

      Report Post » Gonzo  
    • GrandmaNRichmondTX
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 8:55am

      Just like obama, osteen is a smarmy shyster.

      Report Post »  
    • AmazingGrace8
      Posted on April 25, 2012 at 9:48am

      Agree with this group of posts!

      Report Post »  
    • Aix_sponsa
      Posted on April 26, 2012 at 12:27am

      Everyone who Evangelical Conservatives dislike is the Anti-Christ. Why can’t you say “I don’t like him, personally” instead of slapping an apocalyptic, fearmongering label on someone?

      Oh wait.

      That’s exactly why you say it. To invoke fear, apprehension, and a sense of “time is almost out” into every aspect of American society.

      Report Post »  
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