Pastor Joel Osteen to Oprah: Homosexuality Is Sin — But Gay People Will Get Into Heaven
- Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:21am by
Billy Hallowell
- Print »
- Email »
Pastor Joel Osteen has made a name for himself as a positive and uplifting minister who focuses in on life’s pleasantries.
Despite his wild popularity, he‘s also frequently criticized by some who feel he doesn’t address some of the more nitty-gritty issues that exist in both the secular and religious worlds.
When it comes to sin — something Osteen clearly believes in but rarely discusses in his sermons — the faith leader is often targeted for not addressing the issue upfront and regularly. On Sunday evening, Oprah Winfrey interviewed Osteen on her new program, “Oprah’s Next Chapter,” where he delved deeply into his views on homosexuality and sin.
“Will a gay person be accepted into heaven, as you see it?,” Oprah asked the famed pastor. “I believe they will,” he responded. ”Sometimes we look at gay being a bigger sin than being proud or not telling the truth. I don’t think God categorizes sins.”
Here, Osteen made it clear that he believes homosexuality is sinful. But Oprah pushed him a bit harder to solidify his stance, asking, “Does that mean that you’re saying that you believe that being gay is a sin?”
“I believe that homosexuality is shown as a sin in the scripture,” he responded. “Oprah, it’s a hard thing in a sense, because I’m for everybody. I’m not against anybody. I don‘t think anybody’s second class,” Osteen continued, as he explained that the bible’s message on the matter, in his view, is clear.
Watch this dialogue, below:
Here‘s more of Oprah and Osteen’s conversation:
Osteen’s main point in addressing the issue, though, was that homosexuality, should it be considered a sin, isn’t any different from other offenses. In his view, it shouldn’t be raised above the other sins that individuals commit.
Osteen made similar statements to CNN’s Piers Morgan back in October, though he also made headlines for saying that he would, out of respect, attend a gay wedding in support of a close friend or family member. Also, we recently reported that Osteen, who brings in millions of viewers through his weekly sermons, will be working on a primetime television show this year.
(H/T: Huffington Post)
Popular Stories
Paper Details Obama Admin’s Alleged Secret Note Sent to Iran: If Israel Attacks, We Won’t Get Involved 575 Comments
‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 403 Comments
This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 402 Comments
Roseanne Barr: Most Billionaires ‘Violent Pedophiles’ & ‘Heartless’ Cocaine Addicts 372 Comments
President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 340 Comments
Faith
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 402 Comments
Pakistani Muslim Cleric Accused of Framing Disabled Christian Girl in Koran-Burning Case Read More- ‘Made Up Religion’: TV Historian Enrages Muslims, Receives Threats After Producing UK Documentary Questioning Islam’s Beginnings 403 Comments
Meet the Controversial German Imam Accused of Brutally Beating His Wife & Pushing Sharia Law Read More
‘Self-Proclaimed Messiah’ & Unification Church Leader the Rev. Sun Myung Moon Has Died — Here’s His Life Story Read More
Business
- President Obama Issues Major ‘Green Energy’ Executive Order 340 Comments
- Germany’s Upcoming Court Ruling Will be Huge for the EU Read More
Ford Looks to Beat Toyota for Best-Selling Car in 2012 With This Model 150 Comments
Bernanke & QE3: Here’s What You Need to Know Read More- ‘Extortion’: Why Did the Labor Department ‘Drop the Hammer’ on Oregon Farmers? 302 Comments
Technology
- This Is the Creationists‘ Response to Scientist Bill Nye’s Viral Pro-Evolution Video Claiming They Harm Children 402 Comments
‘TaserDrone’: Hackers Weaponize Quadcopter With Actual ‘Shocking’ Technology Read More
Ever Heard of the Wild ‘Burning Man’ Festival in the Middle of the Nev. Desert? Here’s Your Primer Read More
Stanford Develops Technology ‘Better Than Steroids’ for Athlete Recovery Read More
Have You Pretended to Know What ‘the Cloud’ Is? You’re Not Alone Read More
Submitting your tip... please wait!
Comments (939)
hillbillyinny
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:03amBLAZE could you please capitalize proper names like “Bible”? Thank you!
Report Post »Hollywood
Posted on March 18, 2012 at 12:36pmjoel osteen is a puppet of satan. Another health and wealth, everyone,is basically good, fool!
Report Post »The Lord will not be mocked. osteen will pay the price of his twisting of Scripture.
zorro
Posted on March 20, 2012 at 4:34pmYou’re right Hollywood. This Olsteen character is only looking to get a bigger audience.
Report Post »milez5
Posted on March 23, 2012 at 2:49amThe real problem is this. The right surrendered on the issue of gay rights 40 years ago. from the founding of this republic right through the 1960′s any politician, if asked, left or right would have roundly condemned homosexuality, most likely saying that it is one of the few things that the bible calls an abomination. Today they praise “Gays as they are now called and talk about how wonderful they are. The only difference between the left and the so-called right is that the right wants to stop just short of marriage equality, but why if gays are so wonderful?
Report Post »karlschneider
Posted on March 26, 2012 at 9:52amThe word “bible” is not a proper name, it’s simply a type of book. There are thousands of bibles. http://www.godisimaginary.com/video2.htm
Report Post »mtnclimberjim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:02amMoney can’t buy ya skinny. Oh now that was funny.
cessna152
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:15amWe all sin, there is no denying that. David, was probably one of the most despicable Kings in the old Testament yet he was considered “A man after God’s own heart”. Now how could that be? Just like anyone else, we are not saved by actions but by God’s grace. David changed his heart after being convicted of his sins..he did not excuse them or try to force others to accept his sin. He changed his entire attitude and ran back to God for every decision and mistake he made. In other words, his ambition was to be more like God instead of his own selfish desires.This is where it gets “sketchy” for us, but not God. Do we make excuses for our sins? Do we convince others that our sins should be accepted? Do we convince others to sin and ultimately lead them away from God?
This issue is not if we are sinners, because we all are. The issue is, are we making excuses for the sins we commit and teaching others to accept them and even commit the same sin. Read 1 Corinthians 1:5 and Romans 1 for a simple yet informative answer.
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:02amA thorough study of David (being wicked, yet called a “man after Gods own heart”) can be very helpful to us! Its is great to see how he thought, prayed, fell, was upheld by God…..very humbling. Blessings.
Report Post »Smokey_Bojangles
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:03amI Think The false doctrine that Oprah spreads through her wealth and TV Shows is ten times worse than Gay sex.She teaches that ‘My self is the ruler of the universe.’ She believes that “WE” are God.But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them—bringing swift destruction on themselves. 2Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. 3In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:04amCorinthians 6:9-11
Report Post »New King James Version (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals,[a] nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:25am@Biddle,
Report Post »That’s because when David was a young boy he was a better person than any other at the time. And David was able to reason with Goliath to turn Goliath into David’s flesh. And as David grew older he lost the nakedness to the Lord that David once had, and his heart grew darker. That is why David’s wife scoffed at the way David would strip off his clothes to dance for the Lord, because even a woman can better know the ways of the Lord. And from high in the spirit of and from David Jesus came down who is also called “A son of David” and yet also called “David’s Father” and root.
albertda31
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:25am@Ashestoashes Looks like you’re screwed as well. Don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:40am@ALBERTDA31 Would you care to explain..or is that supposed to be some kind of mystery? You cannot continue to live a life of sin if you want to inherit the kingdom of heaven..People can fall..but they have to get back up and continue in the laws of God the Father and His Son Jesus. Non of us are perfect..but there is a difference in abiding in God’s laws and abiding in your own…one‘s who do not believe in God’s Word are perishing. They have blinders on. All one has to do is to repent and turn away from their sinful lifestyle. I didn‘t write God’s Word.. but I believe it..I am not throwing stones..I am not the Judge…Jesus Christ is.
Report Post »JohnK144
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:57am@c.rozycki
I’d suggest that YOU read the “SCRIPTURES.” According to Jesus, that would include, the law, the psalms and the prophets. I’ve read all of the “Holy Bible,” and I’ve been all through the evangelical christian experience. So I‘m not unfamiliar with where you’re coming from. Unfortunately, and this will “shock” you, but the New Testament is NOT “scripture.” It is at best, commentary on the scriptures. Jesus never referred to the New Testament as scripture; it hadn’t been written yet. The apostles never referred to their writings as scripture, because they weren’t. But when they spoke of the scriptures, they spoke of the law, the psalms and the prophets.
Here’s another “beauty” for you. What YOU call “christianity,” actually denies the Gospel, and the redemption of Christ. Jesus proclaimed he came to redeem the “whole world.“ ”Christianity” says he failed. “His redemption is incomplete, until you complete the ‘work’ of profession.”
Where you fail is that you haven’t believed the Gospel. But that’s OK. You’ll still go to heaven, because Jesus did not fail.
Report Post »AmazingGrace8
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:59am@Cessna
Well said. Amen.
Report Post »KOCHLEFFEL
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:01pmReligion , Root of all Evil, is the Universal Obsessional Neurosis of Humanity!
Report Post »burkanuck
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:13pm@Cessna152, “David, was probably one of the most despicable Kings in the old Testament yet he was considered “A man after God’s own heart”.”
I see people quoting this all the time. You might want to do a check and see just when Scripture proclaims that David was a man after God’s own heart. It was BEFORE he was even king.
Report Post »God doesn’t take sin lightly and David knew that. Some of the most beautiful examples of sincere repentance are found in David’s Psalms.But please, let’s not try and suggest that David “was a man after God’s own heart” while he was engaging in sin.
Sevlar
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:17pmI don‘t support Gay marriage and I don’t think they should be asking for special treatement. I did read this letter one time online though and found it very funny and yet it had a good point. Bottom line being a homosexual is a sin but there were so many screwed up sins declared back then that its hard to choose what would be considered a priority over another…
Dear Dr. Laura:
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God’s Law.
I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge
with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. … End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
God’s Law and how to follow them.
1. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a
pleasing odour for the Lord – Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbours. They
claim the odour is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus
21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her
period of menstrual uncleanliness – Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I
tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offence.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both ma
Report Post »rmore
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:30pmIn thinking that the New Testament is not scripture, JOHNK144 needs to look at 2 Peter 3:16 where Peter, one of the apostles, states (about Paul’s letters): ….His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
So from this we know that at least one of the apostles (Peter) considered Paul’s letter to be scripture.
Report Post »Sevlar
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:31pmBah most of my post was cut off . Let me try again….
When someone tries to defend the homosexual
lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly
states it to be an abomination. … End of debate.
I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of
God’s Law and how to follow them.
4. Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and
female, provided they are purchased from neighbouring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?
5. I have a neighbour who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2.
The passage clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated
to kill him myself?
6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
abomination – Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don.t agree. Can you settle this?
7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading
glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room
here?
8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair
around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.
19:27. How should they die?
9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes
Report Post »me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
Treaty
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:50pmSEVLAR, your post exhibits the fundamental problem with mankind. You are severed from God. When you are joined to him through Jesus Christ you would understand that the Old Testament stories are real life examples of things in the spiritual realm – things that you have absolutely no ability to comprehend. Stop trying but rather just call out to Jesus Christ for forgiveness and mercy.
Report Post »SonOfThunder
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:52pmOsteen is a false teacher and a wolve in sheep’s clothing. He is leading his followers straight to hell. Oprah and Osteen are both universalists believing there are many ways to heaven. There is one way and that is Jesus. Run as far as you can from this word of faith pastor. Oprah is spreading lies and her own religion.
Jesus said ” I am the Way, the Truth and the Life no one comes to the Father expect through Me”. John 14:6
Repent, put your trust in Jesus and obey God’s Word and you will be saved.
ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:52pmJOHN1K444 To say every one will go to heaven is not true. Roman 9:22 22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25As he says in Hosea: There will be a separation of body and soul at death, no loss of immatrerial consciousness..REV6 9-11 and that the redeemed passes immediately into the presence of Christ.Luke23:43 2Cor5:8..Phil3:21 and separation will continue until the Rapture1Thess4:13-17 There will be a bodily resurrection of all men the saved to eternal lifeJoh6:39 Ro,8:10,11,19-23 2Cor 4:14 and the unsaved to judgement and everlasting punishement Dan12:2 John5:29 Rev20:13-15 The unsaved at death are kept under punishment until the final resurrectionLuke16:19-26 REV20:13-15 when the soul and the resurrected body will be united. john:5:28,29. they shall appear at the Great White Throne JudgementREV2011-15 and shall be cast into the lake of fire.Mat25:41-46 2Thes1:7-9
Report Post »madmamasunite
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:17pm@cessna152. There is a huge difference, you’re right. The answer is clear. REPENT. David repented for his sin with Bathsheeba, et. al. Homosexuals do not repent. They continue in their life-style. Messiah said that unless a man is born again, he cannot enter the kingdom. In order to be born again, one must REPENT. Osteen, as usual, has his doctrine all wrong. And don’t you know that the homosexual community will take this and run away with it claiming their sin is indeed acceptable. Woe woe and more woe to Osteen. Boy, being in the public eye is sure gonna cause him to be accountable for an awful lot of lost people. Wake up Joel! Wake up world.
Report Post »JohnK144
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:29pm@ashestoashes
Oh gosh. Would you look at how many books of commentary you had to take out of context and string together in order to “make your point?”
To understand the Gospel, you need to study the “Scriptures.” The law, the psalms, and the prophets. As Jesus said, these were ALL about him. That’s what the apostles were working from in their commentary. To deny that some of the apostle’s writings were simply wrong, study the New Testament itself where Paul brutally condemned the teachings of Peter. In those clashes, they couldn’t BOTH be right, which means that at least one of them was WRONG.
I know all of this stings a bit, but that’s just the way it is. Of course, that‘s not to say the New Testament isn’t helpful. In fact, consider this:
“12 Therefore, as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin; and so death passed unto all men, for that all sinned:–
13 for until the law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the likeness of Adam’s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come.
15 But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift. For if by the trespass of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God, and the gift by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound unto the many.”
Quick tip: “the many” is described in the first verse. It means “ALL.”
Report Post »qzak491
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:08pmJOHNK144
If what you said is what you believe you are as big an idiot as the nut case this article is about.
Report Post »You say ” I’ve been all through the evangelical christian experience”, if this is true you better rethink your experince it might not be genuine. Most people that have this experience say they have been saved by JESUS you don’t, that may be a clue.
jcannon98188
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:26pmGod loves the Sinner, not the Sin. Are Gay People going to make it into heaven? Of course they are!
Every one here is so quick to judge gays, and claim that they are horrible people. But did not Jesus say “Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone?” Indeed did he not die for ALL of our sins? Or do you believe that he only died for the sins of self proclaimed Christians. If you believe the second, you are a hypocrite, and you insult Jesus’ eternal sacrifice. Jesus died so that ALL mankind may be saved. Homosexuality IS A SIN, do not get me wrong. But Joel is right, to an extent. With the exception of certain sins (murder, denying the holy ghost) God does not differentiate sins. Remember the scriptures say “No unclean thing can dwell in the presence of God” it does not say “No Gays” or “No Muslims” it says “NO UNCLEAN” if you have ever sinned ever you are unclean. If you have ever told a lie, you are unclean! If you look unto your brother with anger in your heart, you have already committed murder, and are unclean! Do not be so quick to judge and damn those around you, for you yourself are condemned and damned! The Lord Jesus preached a religion of Love and Peace, and yet so called Christians are hateful in their hearts, and in their tongue. To all those who claim that homosexuals will not make it into heaven, go and take a hard look at your life, and ask yourself. Will I make it to heaven?
Report Post »APPAULED
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:31pmNo, its not funny, its a cheap shot. There is always at least one in every crowd that takes advantage of every opportunity to downgrade others. Do you really think that how much you weigh determines your character? I would lean more toward judging character by what comes out of ones mouth!
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:36pm@Eliasim, thanks. The Word is so……..AMAZING!
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:36pmOkay let me get this straight, a collection of nomadic goat herder’s myths and legends are collected together about1,600 year ago. Some are kept, some are discarded with the translations from various languages into a new language. We are to accept this is the word of some Sky Father, when even the most recent accounts where written 40+ years after the events happened and the various accounts at times conflict wth each other.
Good one, I am still waiting for the punchline.
Report Post »constantnfaithful
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:39pmCESSNA152, you are absolutely right! Homosexuality is a sin no greater than any other sin. “Should we keep sinning that Grace may abound? God forbid! Although all things are permissible for me, not all things are expedient.” In the words of Paul. Grace forgives, but we need to live in righteousness. Turn from our sin and repent. God is gracious to forgive our sin and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:41pm“Good one, I am still waiting for the punchline.”
you’re the punchline…He will have the last laugh….
oh and you cannot disprove the bible, you atheists have been trying for centuries…and yet the bible has been proven over and over and over again to be true…
unlike your racist atheist fairy tale of evolution….
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:48pmI don’t think God categories sins as he said all fall short of the glory of God. But he did say, Go and sin no more. Can a rapist, murderer, thief enter into the kingdom of heaven, yes if they’ve trully repented of these sins then accept that Jesus is Lord and live for him….he cannot hold onto his sin and keep sinning but telling God its OK.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:49pm@JOHN I think that it is wonderful that you have committed yourself to God’s scripture..But the whole Bible is the living will and testament of God.. The Old Testament.(meaning 1rst Covenant..the New Testament..meaning the New Covenant. The Old Testament being the Law and the Prophets..which God put forth to teach us what sin is. But John 1 tells us that in the beginning there was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God.. The Old Testament foretells of Jesus’s coming..and in the New Testament..the prophesy is fullfilled. Jesus did not come to abolish the law..but to fulfill the law. He taught us the Spirit of the Law and His work on the cross made it possible for the Holy Spirit to come live within us so that we could keep His commands..for without Him we fall short of the glory of God..The “Commentary” of Jesus and the ones He taught is of great importance. It really wouldn’t make sense for us to be able to live in intentional sin and expect to enter the kingdom..If one is truly born of God..then He abides in His love and obeys His commands. Remember..there will be many false shepards..I believe your heart is in the right place..but for the sake your own soul..I would search more deeply. Ask God to teach you..it may come slowly..but it will come..Blessings
Report Post »ChiefGeorge
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:50pmYes David had blood on his hands and he sinned, but most dispicable? Not even close esp after he repented of his sin, God began to work through him yet again.
Report Post »Big Book Harry
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:53pmBeing gay is not a sin, sexual immorality is. This is simple, sexual contact with ANYTHING outside of the member of the opposite sex that you are married to under God is sinnfull. Any Church or government that marries same sex couples does not have Gods blessings.
Report Post »ScreaminEagle
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:01pm@CESSNA152
Very good explination, I think it’s the the best we will get this side of heaven.
Report Post »mcdonnal
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:04pmFor AshesToAshes. There is not one among us, anywhere, who are worthy of God’s Grace. Yet He freely grants it to all who believe in Him and His Son. That is good enough for me. The rest of this pontificating is of little or no value
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:07pm@CHIEF GEORGE David was a man after God’s own heart..yet he was human and he did fall in his lust for Bathsheba..committing adultery with her. God did not let David off so easily..David impregnated Bathsheba and then tried to get Bathshebas husband..(home from battle) to sleep with Bathsheba so David could be let off the hook..But then when Bathsheba’s husband refused,being an honorable man felt he’d be betraying his fellow soldiers..David had him sent to the frontline of battle to be killed. God still didn’t let David off the hook..He took David’s child..Then David suffered terribly with the other children he had..Talk about a life of hell on earth..
Report Post »wandamurline
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:08pmIt would seem that Rev. Osteen may border on being a fence turtle…to not preach to people that God does not like sin, he is, in fact, not giving the nonbeliever the real way to be saved. As for homosexuality, God says that it is an abomination and destroyed a city because of it….you cannot peddle sin like homosexuality as it is against nature. Maybe Osteen should get down on his knees and asks forgiveness for himself. To me, he sounds like a flim flam, snake oil salesman instead of a preacher of God. If you want to know about homosexuality, ask Rev. Billy Graham…. he will give you a straight answer.
Report Post »arckangjell
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:11pmleviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination .k.J.v.
being gay or homosexual is a lusting/ perversion sin .
Report Post »God tells us to be fruitful & multiply how the heck can you do that & be homosexual.
If you read in colossians & galations there are specific verses about whos going to heaven & who isnt
& if a homosexual does not repent he is not going to heaven.
zeekeof2
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:12pmwhen is oprah going to come out?!? she is gay
Report Post »TXPilot
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:19pmI suppose, like anyone else, nothing is certain, but I would imagine that some gay people will get into heaven………they will just have to enter at the rear……lol….sorry folks…
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:20pmThis is the false doctrine that Jesus talked about in the last days. God does not make one a homosexual at birth. It is a choice. Everyone has a natural bent toward something but most people don’t act on it. Yes, we are all sinners, but the truly born again Christian cannot continue to live in sin without the conviction of that sin in their heart. The true followers of Christ may fall and sin, but they will always want to turn from their sin and repent and ask God for help in their struggle. They will not continue living in sin. The homosexual who continues living this way, and does not repent and turn from it, will not inherit the kingdom of God. Anyone who tells you otherwise, it is a lie from the pit of hell. If a person is doing something that is wrong, and it does not bother them, then they need to reassess their Christianity.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:21pmOsteen part of the Power of Postive THinking crowd needs to stop thinking and start reading the Bible.
Report Post »He is lost and so is his followers.
He needs to understand what abomination is and we are not to associate with non believers
NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:24pmOprah is of the Power of Postive Thinking crowd which makes you your own god.
Report Post »Glad I am not in his shoes or hers
NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:25pm@Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:25am
You are the most lost mind in the world, what are you on today
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:27pmTo say that all sin is the same is not true either..What did Jesus say to Pontius Pilot when Pilot was concerned about Jesus’s fate?Jesus said, “whoever has delivered me to you has greater sin than yours.” ..
Report Post »And God does say that homosexuality is an abomination to him meaning he hates it.
The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:27pmLMAO at that idiot. Unrepentant sin IS SEPARATION FROM GOD! Of course queers can be forgiven, but forgiveness has a price, and it’s called TURNING AWAY FROM SIN.
The Law is not vague, nor are the repercussions for breaking the Law. Sinners are faced with a choice. Either to stop sinning, or pay the price for sinning. The sin of being queer is a bit more than JUST a sin, it’s and abomination in the sight of God. While still living a sin that has been revealed as sin separation with God is still present. Not everyone that says LORD LORD will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who repent and have been sanctified Holy by the Messiahs shed blood.
Jesus gave the fix when He entered the Temple (representative of the body of the believer as the Temple). When He saw the money lender and corruption He made Himself a whip and drove them out at the same time He overturned the present sin that was corrupting the Temple.
We have to remove revealed sin or we’re under the burden of the Law because we simply cannot serve 2 Masters. What are the 2 Masters? Sanctification or Sin. Biblically that’s better expressed as Lawful and UNlawful.
What is the anti-Christ likened to? THE LAWLESS ONE!
The continue in revealed sin is lawlessness.
This “Preacher” is money grubbing L I A R, and an enemy of the Cross of Christ.
Report Post »NoRoomForSocialismHere
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:27pm@ashestoashes
Report Post »Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:40am
You have it right and the BIBLE of all things backs you all the way!
The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:40pmThe book of Leviticus is crystal clear when stating, Leviticus 18:22 “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it (is) abomination.”
Jer.28 [15 ] Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie.
This is a direct warning to this articles FALSE teacher.
Ezek.13 [6 ] They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them : and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
1John.4 [1 ] Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
How do we TRY the spirits? Simply by studying. If you study you learn to hear the WORD. That alone doesn’t FIX sin, you MUST ACT. What act id required? To DO the will of the Father and repent. Continuing in sin is unrepentant sin, and separation from God. We KNOW that sin cannot inherit the Kingdom. REVELATION 21:27 “And nothing unclean and NO ONE WHO PRACTICES ABOMINATION AND LYING, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life.”
Leviticus declares men lying with men an abomination. Sorry queers, but the Kingdom of God is a NO QUEERS club.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:01pmIf I were to use anyone from the Bible as an example for being a sinner I’d use Paul. He persecuted the church, often voting for Christian’s deaths and getting them to blaspheme etc. but he obeyed the Lord’s will and was converted and saved after he did all the Lord told him to do and after that well, most of you know the rest of the story.
@ Sevlar, those questions you ask about the Law of Moses pertained ONLY to the children of Israel, not the gentile nation nor to anyone today. Those laws were only for the children of Israel until Christ came and fulfilled the law. Since Christ was without sin and followed the law perfectly He fulfilled it’s purpose. Meaning today we are under the Law of Christ, not under the law commanded to the children of Israel.
Report Post »Kenai
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:08pmExcept a man be born again, he will not go into the gates of heaven. We are all sinners but unless ANY AND ALL of us repent of our sins…NONE OF US WILL GET THERE!
Report Post »Joseph the Gray
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:09pmI missed something on the skinny thing, but read every comment under it. I too am concerned with the truth of God’s word being used properly and being abused so freely and often. If one seriously studies God’s word, it is very helpful when you see or hear others speak of it. We are commanded not to judge, but we are equally responsible for evaluating every situation and person. I.e. “Do not be yoked…, Shun evil…, Bad company corrupts….What does the light have in common with darkness?..” And so many more. So evaluating a persons character is not judging them. Is practicing homosexuality a sin? Both the first and final covenants say it is. Does God hate it? Yes he does. Does he hate the one doing it? No. As Christians we have no other guide but the owners manual to go by, the holy bible. Both books condemn adding or subtracting from it’s contents. We therefore hate that sin, but not that brother or sister committing it. We know we are no better and deserve the same verdict as the most vile sinner. But unlike the unrepentant brother or sister, we have the blessed hope of salvation through the saving grace and sacrifice of the King of Kings. The Alpha and the Omega. The God of all that is known and unknown. Praise his holy name. In our zeal, we rush to tell others of his glory. Sometimes ill prepare and we do more harm than we did good. My friend, Jesus is the standard. Ask yourself, if he came today would he be on Oprah’s show? Would he be a multimillionaire like Joe
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:31pm@ Joseph the Gray
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:09pm
——————————————————
I agree with your post.
There’s simply just ONE prayer that the Father will ever hear from the sinner, and that’s the prayer of forgiveness. If once having been forgiven of sin we return and commit that sin again willfully, the penalty of the Law goes back into force because we SPITEFULLY AND WILLFULLY act to crucify Christ again.
Preachers like this articles subject becomes guilty of the spiritual blood he sheds by glossing over Gods Word, preaching to itching ears, and not pronouncing the Judgments God has already declared.
The Bible teaches clearly that NO MAN once having put his hand to the plow and turns away, IS WORTHY of the Kingdom of Heaven.
Atheists, and weak minded fools will always seek sugarcoating preachers, but it won’t ever change the Word. Declaring sin and the price of sin isn’t judging anyone. It’s GOD judging by the declared WORD that we have already been instructed to deliver to the sheep who are lost. Sugarcoating creates false premises and wrong doctrine. This preachers testimony is void when he told the lie that queers would be in Heaven. He tried a 2 step and fell on his face. His testimony should have been that unrepentant (the rejection of sin, and doing it no more as seen in Jesus dealing with the woman caught in adultery) sin brings death. In other words, TELL THE TRUTH!
Report Post »godlovinmom
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:31pmIsn’t homosexuality the sin mentioned that makes the earth vomit…not to my knowledge does God lable any other sin quite like this..and for you who say you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and be homosexual…that is simply not true…repentence and belief in Jesus gets you in….the guy next to Jesus on the cross went to heaven..for all we know he could of been a sodomite…(maybe a theif, murderer) but because he knew in his heart and soul who he was next to…he’s in…Amen!
Report Post »techengineer11
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:31pmashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:27pm
To say that all sin is the same is not true either..What did Jesus say to Pontius Pilot when Pilot was concerned about Jesus’s fate?Jesus said, “whoever has delivered me to you has greater sin than yours.” ..
Who delivered Jesus? jk with ya. I like the way you try to convey your opinions; however, you make the same mistake as I often do on this site and believe that you are dealing with rational intelligent educated people. It’s just simply not the case.
Hey someone referred to you as a female recently.. Is that the case? Because in all of your posts that I‘ve read I’ve always though male…
Report Post »encinom
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:40pmscarebear83
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:01pm
If I were to use anyone from the Bible as an example for being a sinner I’d use Paul. He persecuted the church, often voting for Christian’s deaths and getting them to blaspheme etc. but he obeyed the Lord’s will and was converted and saved after he did all the Lord told him to do and after that well, most of you know the rest of the story.
@ Sevlar, those questions you ask about the Law of Moses pertained ONLY to the children of Israel, not the gentile nation nor to anyone today. Those laws were only for the children of Israel until Christ came and fulfilled the law. Since Christ was without sin and followed the law perfectly He fulfilled it’s purpose. Meaning today we are under the Law of Christ, not under the law commanded to the children of Israel.
_______________________________
Than why still the prohibition against homosexuality? That to is found in the same passages as the other laws. Were in the bible does God say “Thouest may pick and choice which laws to obey.” Why is eating of an unclean animal no greater a sin today, than it was in year 1?
Of course the truth is that biblical scholars who are honest have struggled withthe fact that the Bible is not relevant if taken literal. Its a book of fables, not the literal truth. In a world that strives for equality, the Bible’s support of slavery and the servitude of women condem it. The Bible’s justification for genocide and brutality show how
Report Post »Pleroma
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:41pmHow does the bible or its believers address the fact that many fetuses have both sex organs and that the one fitting the physical attributes is not always the one contributing to it. False prophets can wear many robes and those who profess to know more about G-d, and the sciences created by that omnipotent being, are those that perpetuate hatred and ignorance. There are many forms of biological errors….not all are readily visable. (How many of you are taking prescription meds?) So, if we are to believe that G-d, the Universal Father, has created all things….are we to believe that that same entity screws up millions of times a year?????? If that is the case….what kind of G-d is that? Love thy neighbor as thyself for the love of G-d. Judge not….
Go out and multiple did not mean populate the earth….there are now 7 billion on the planet. It meant to spread the words of Love and Compassion….Understanding and Mercy…Tiferet.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:41pm@ godlovinmom
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:31pm
Isn’t homosexuality the sin mentioned that makes the earth vomit…not to my knowledge does God lable any other sin quite like this..and for you who say you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and be homosexual…that is simply not true…repentence and belief in Jesus gets you in….the guy next to Jesus on the cross went to heaven..for all we know he could of been a sodomite…(maybe a theif, murderer) but because he knew in his heart and soul who he was next to…he’s in…Amen!
————————————————————————–
Numbers 32:23, yes.
Included in that is incest, adultery, h om o sexuality, bestiality. The children aspect is pretty self evident, and Jesus gives a special warning against harming them.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:48pm@NOROOMFORSOCIALJUSTICE..It is so great to see so many on here who do know their Bible..Thank you for your kind words of encouragement..Blessings.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:50pmSin is a choice people either decide to avoid, or to become party to. If I sin, that sin continues unbroken through at least 4 generations of my family. A child born with both organs isn’t an anomaly, it’s a retribution for sin. Whether we like it or not that’s a judgment we invoke on OURSELVES by our own error.
Stop with the silly idea that “evolution” caused it, and that God somehow changed His mind.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:07pmJesus made an interesting comment when talking to His Disciple, in the Book of John, John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and you believe not, how shall you believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
People simply don’t like the Truth and for some, like this wrong headed preacher, think babysitting is the way to covert. In a way he’s right. He’s converting those looking for Messiah, and God, into children of satan.
Report Post »MetalPatriot
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:13pm@MCCONNELL
That’s right. Funny how everybody spouts off AS IF they are living “righteously”. I’ll stand by forgiveness based on grace, thank you very much.
@SEVLAR
I thought your post was funny. It’s amazing how many Christians have no sense of humor & probably lack the joy we’re supposed to exhibit as well.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:13pm@TECH Hi Friend..great to see you on here..Asking my gender? If you had followed all of my posts to you in particular..you would probably have figured it out by now. there is a reason that I have a neutral monker. Remember Tech..in Jesus there is no male nor female..Jew nor Greek..we are all the same in Christ..we are one..Have you ever wondered why I picked a neutral moniker?..There are probably only 3 people on this site who know..2 have only insinuated.. I have always had a heart for you Tech..glad you are on the right side..Keep up the good fight.
Report Post »mharris2012
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:26pmExactly just what does he mean some sins are worser than others?I thought sin was sin yes u can get into heaven but u must reoent first u can not be gay an get in like i said repent first.When i listen to joel he seems like he is unsure of himself an what he is saying.He is a compromiser with the world the flesh an the devil.This man man is trying to promte a show an want’s people to like him we are not here to get along with the world.That‘s why he never talk’s about sin somebody said rarely he never talk’s about it when i used to watch him all i heard was 20 minutes worth of stories.An the people rarely have bibles i guess they feel they won’t need them anyway.One more thing these movies stars flock to him an his books why is that? I don’t see them talking to Joyce or John Hagee.so that’s just my opinion but this man really needs to learn how to put a sermon together before he starts doing TV shows.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:46pm@ mharris2012
————————————————-
That was a very good post. I agree that sin is sin and separates us from God until we act on the Spirits pull at our heart and turn away from sin and seek forgiveness.
BUT, I also believe that there are degree’s of reward, and punishments.
I think of it like this. I do something that brings shame to my family, being sinful. Once I come to them and ask for forgiveness, they are going to accept me. That doesn‘t mean that there’s not a certain amount of proving I must walk through to earn their trust. And rightly so. If I did something against my brother, like say, sleep with his wife, there is certainly going to be a punishment beyond getting my face caved in. He is not going to allow a situation where I can ever get that close again. Again, he would be justified. Because he “laid down the law” and enforces it, does that make him unjust? Hardly. So my freedom and unlimited interaction is reduced by the degree of the wrong (sin) that I committed. But I will still be his brother, and part of my family, even though they would be justified by disowning me. THAT’S a small example of the Grace of Jesus Christ and power of forgiveness. That I’m still worthy to be a family member, even if my rewards might not be as great as yours.
Report Post »itmustbe
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:46pmHebrews 12:14
New Living Translation (NLT)
A Call to Listen to God
Report Post »14 Work at living in peace with everyone, and work at living a holy life, for those who are not holy will not see the Lord.
I support God's Israel!
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:06pmI think we should clarify SIN, no matter what sin it is: THE CONTINUING PRACTICE OF SIN (lying, stealing, homosexuality, etc.) is what you will be judged on. So, if you are SAVED BY GRACE, you will be judged for those sins. IF you have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit AND you listen to Him as your guide and teacher and convicter, then, you will remain under that grace. Without the Holy Spirit, you can do nothing on your own. Will homosexuals be allowed in Heaven? Ask them this: are they GRIEVING THE HOLY SPIRIT by PRACTICING THIS SIN WITH ANOTHER OF THE SAME SEX? If they continue to sin (action), then YES, they are grieving the Holy Spirit, and eventually, the Holy Spirit will LEAVE THEM, which means that they will no longer be convicted of their sin and they will go back into the darkness as they did before they came to know Christ. I realize that Baptists believe that once you are saved, you are always saved, but those who continually sin, were probably not saved at all, anyways. Just to come to Christ, and then to continue in sin means that God has seen your heart and is still waiting for you to REPENT. Catholics: NO ONE, not even your priest, can take away your sins or absolve you from them. YOU MUST ASK GOD, THRU HIS SON JESUS, TO FORGIVE YOU FOR YOUR SINS. If you think you can trot off after confession and be free, you are delusional. READ YOUR BIBLE again. You must personally ask God to forgive you thru Jesus Christ – PERIOD. Man can’t save you.
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:14pmBTW: Jesus came to FULFILL THE LAW (O.T) and NOT replace it. The 10 commandments are still for us in the New Testament. .FULFILL THE LAW, NOT REPLACE IT. Jesus was the ultimate SACRIFICE over lambs and such. That is the ONLY change, except what Paul describes in the New Testament. Must women’s heads be covered? It is no sin, if her head is not covered, but the sins you should stay away that AFFECT YOUR SOUL, are LISTED IN THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. So, to nitpick this and that in the Bible, IS JUST PLAIN FOOLISH. If you accept Jesus as your personal Savior and you follow HIM and what He commands, your place in Heaven is assured.
If you continue in your previous sins, OR, you do not renounce your sins, OR you do not LISTEN AND OBEY the Holy Spirit when it instructs you to NOT SIN, not sexually interact with another of the same sec, not lie to your boss, not steal that extra dollar the clerk gave you (return it), not commit adultery, etc., then the Holy Spirit WILL LEAVE YOU and you will struggle to stay away from sin. Therefore, I believe you will be in SIN. And, sin no sin can enter Heaven, you will await your Judgement. Now, I know a lot of you are going to scream at me for this because we are under GRACE, but that does NOT give you a license to continue in your sense. GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED and if you think you are saved and you’ve been sinning, THINK AGAIN about your salvation. ARE YOU TRULY SAVED?
Report Post »I support God's Israel!
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:22pmSADLY, most Pastors will not preach about specific SIN. They want to be on the safe side. BUT, when the Holy Spirit tells them to preach on this or that, and they do not do it, woe unto that Pastor. God will be angry with that Pastor. The Holy Spirit is THE DIRECT LINE TO GOD. Ask the Holy Spirit, if you are saved, to teach you the truth about God’s holy word. I used to be a ho hum Christian UNTIL I was filled with the HS. THEN, my entire life changed. The HS taught me so many truths that I had misunderstood before. Your basic Christian, who does not believe in the HS indwelling is missing out on a lot. They have a MEASURE of the HS when they got saved, but they need to ask for the full indwelling. If they don’t, they will always be hohum, basic, and limited in God’s power for their lives. Trust me when I say, without the HS indwelling, you will HAVE NO POWER to do God’s work HIS WAY. Anyone can got out and feed the poor. Anyone can go out and preach. But if you are doing it without the Holy Spirit, it will be in vain. You may get a few to hear you, but if you want dynamics, GET THE INDWELLING OF THE HS. HOW? Get on your knees and just ask God to give it to you. Then begin PRAISING HIS HOLY NAME, OUT LOUD PRIVATELY, IF YOU CAN. And keep praising him until you feel that power and/or warmth come over you. YOU WILL KNOW YOU HAVE IT, WHEN IT COMES ON YOU, YOU REALLY WILL! I believe that if you do NOT have that indwelling, you will NOT make the Rapture.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:27pm@ I support God’s Israel!
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:14pm
BTW: Jesus came to FULFILL THE LAW (O.T) and NOT replace it. The 10 commandments are still for us in the New Testament. .FULFILL THE LAW, NOT REPLACE IT. Jesus was the ultimate SACRIFICE over lambs and such. That is the ONLY change, except what Paul describes in the New Testament. Must women’s heads be covered? It is no sin, if her head is not covered, but the sins you should stay away that AFFECT YOUR SOUL, are LISTED IN THE 10 COMMANDMENTS. So, to nitpick this and that in the Bible, IS JUST PLAIN FOOLISH. If you accept Jesus as your personal Savior and you follow HIM and what He commands, your place in Heaven is assured.
Report Post »————————————————————————————————
Exactly right. Except there are 613 Commandment Laws that express the fulness of Gods will. Jesus summarized in simple terms, Love the Lord God (if we love God, we will keep His Commandments), and Love our neighbors as ourselves (Thomas Jefferson understood that in his explanation of RIGHT Liberty). If we possess the 3 daughters of Wisdom, Faith Hope and Charity, we listen to, and do the Lords will.
PASSIONFORCHRIST
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:32pmcessna152: YOU HIT IT RIGHT ON SPOT!!!!!
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:44pmThe Words of our mouth, and the meditation of our hearts can lead us to one place, and that’s the the Rivers that flow from Zion where the Laws were given.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNk05WAsygQ&feature=related
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:52pm@albert
Report Post »I suggest you read up on your history. First off in the last 100 years over 250a million million people have been killed by atheist leaders. Also more Christians have been killed the last 100 years years than in the last 1900100 combined. Also christians and jews are the most persecuted groups of all time bare none. Who are the dangerous. Delirious. People? It ain’t christians
mcdonnal
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:23pm@METALPATRIOT, Thanks, it is MCDONNAL
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:24pm@ @ godlovinmom
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:31pm
…repentence and belief in Jesus gets you in….the guy next to Jesus on the cross went to heaven..for all we know he could of been a sodomite…(maybe a theif, murderer) but because he knew in his heart and soul who he was next to…he’s in…Amen!
————————————————————————————————————-
Every sinner can be forgiven except those who blasphemy the Holy Spirit (deny Christ), so yes you are right. My question to the last sentence isn’t a slam, it’s a question and answer, because I surely believe he is with Christ.
Did Jesus say, …..verily I say unto thee, this day though shalt be with me in Paradise?
or did He say,
…..verily I say unto thee this day, though shalt be with me in Paradise.
It’s a timing issue I have always had, not the end result because it provides a mystery. We know that Jesus descended for 3 days in She’ol to minister to those who were dead, and rose on the 3rd day, and was witnessed alive before ascending on the 40th day. The punctuation mark creates 2 different ways to interpret that verse.
Report Post »tketterer
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:39pmHey Olsteen, being gay is a sin, but chumming up with a satanic cult like Mormonism and calling it Christianity is worse.
Report Post »Unix
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:45pmJesus Christ, Emannuel, came among men, to establish a new convenant. The New Testiment is that covenant. Jesus instructed them to pass His knowledge, deeds and new law to the ages. Jesus, said the Tora [Old Testiment] is still valid, all books, laws and prophets.
Paraphrasing:
If you so believe in me [Jesus], and shall be baptized in my name, and repent of your sin, then follow the narrow path, the gates of Heaven will be wide unto you. It is impossible, as a human, to attain that narrow path, yet we strive to stay on it, this is what Christians do. It is all in the Bible, cannonized in 323 AD. We have a beautiful book, that seems to divide us, why I ask? Why not believe in the possiblilty [i think certainty], if you make it to Heaven, to walk with God, and view the galaxies, take in the wonder that is all around us now. I sin every day, God knows, I try to pray every day and repent of my sins, and give thanks for my gift of life, family and love.
God Bless you all
Report Post »memyselfandi
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:53pm@ johnk144
Report Post »The Christian faith and the Bible are both terribly misunderstood.
The key to understanding the Bible is this…
1. Man sinned and God promised a redeemer.
2. Mankind refused to cooperate with God for 1600 years to the point that He had to destroy it and start over.
3. Just 400 years after the flood mankind was in a total mess again.
4. God makes a sovereign choice and selects Abram and promises to make a great nation from his seed and to keep them from corruption, God added the law to act as a restraining force to keep the people from sin and get the Messiah on the scene. In exchange for their cooperation God promised to make them a nation of priests and kings that would bring all the nations into the kingdom of God.
5. The Messiah comes on the scene but the nation as a whole rejects His leadership and causes God to suspend His offer of “the gospel of kingdom” to the nation of Israel.
6. God turns His attention to the Gentiles through revelation He gave directly to and exclusively to the apostle Paul. This program of “the gospel of the grace of God” will continue until “the fullness of the gentiles is come in”. In an act of judgment on the Jews for their rejection of Jesus, He gave them “the spirit of slumber”, He “darkened their understanding”, and He elevated the gentile program in such a way that would “provoke the Jews to jealousy”. He capped it all off by destroying the temple to ensure the suspension of the Jewish religion.
memyselfandi
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:54pm7. At some point the Jewish program will resume and the book of Revelation, Daniel, Isaiah, Psalms, etc. will be literally fulfilled.
Report Post »“If any man or even an angel from heaven preach any other gospel that what I have preached…LET HIM BE CURSED!!!!!!!” (Gal. 1:8-9)
VoteBushIn12
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 12:31am@ASHESTOASHES
Neither Homosexuals nor sodomites will be allowed into the Kingdom of heaven. Have you ever gotten a handjob or a ******* – even from your wife? That’s sodomy.
Looks like you wont be entering the kingdom of heaven either.
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 12:45am“If any man or even an angel from heaven preach any other gospel that what I have preached…LET HIM BE CURSED!!!!!!!”
______________
That’s some scary shee-ite right there!
Hey 10th Amendment… good stuff through this thread.
Report Post »Smacked me upside the head man. I need to get on my knees!
JJ Coolay
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 12:50amHave you ever gotten a handjob or a ******* – even from your wife? That’s sodomy.
________________
Are you for real? What a man and his wife do in their marriage bed is a-ok.
Hebrews 13:4 – Marriage is honorable with all and their bed is pure, but fornicators and adulterers God judges.”
This means within the confines of the marriage, the husband and wife enjoying each other is undefiled.
Report Post »Christine Graham
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 1:12am@votebushin12
Ummm… a handjob and oral sex are NOT “sodomy,” as you say they are.
Are you really that ignorant??
Good lord.
Report Post »Return2Truth
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 1:50am@JOHNK144 New Testament = Scriptures
“Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the REST of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity.” -2Pet 3:14-18
Please also consider what Jesus taught: “My sheep hear My voice …and they follow Me”; “many are called but few are chosen”; “STRIVE to enter the narrow gate for many will seek to enter and will not be able”; “for the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and few there are who find it.” He warned that there will be many calling on His name and many claiming to work in His name whom He will deny; only those who do the will of His Father will He save. (Mat 7:13-28, 22:14, Luke 13:24, John 10:27, also Mat 28:18-19, Mark 16:15-16, Acts 2:36-41, 22:16, Rom 6:3-6, 1Pet 3:21, James 2:14-26, 1Pet 4:17-19)
May God bless us all
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 2:13am@Encinom “Than why still the prohibition against homosexuality? That to is found in the same passages as the other laws. Were in the bible does God say “Thouest may pick and choice which laws to obey.” Why is eating of an unclean animal no greater a sin today, than it was in year 1?”
1 Corinthians 6:8-10 specifically tells us who will not enter the kingdom of heaven and that includes homosexuals.
For starters salvation was given to all meaning that Gentiles could be part of the kingdom. In the 1st century you had Gentiles who ate pork and saw nothing wrong with it but to the Jew that was something they were told not to eat. Therefore since all are made one in Christ there are no restrictions concerning dietary laws. Since I am not Jewish and not under the Law of Moses (the law was given ONLY to the children of Israel Deuteronomy 5:2-3) then those laws for the nation of Israel do not pertain to me. As Luke 16 states 16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it.” So the law of Moses was never meant to be a permanent law.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 2:26am@ Return2Truth
EXCELLENT post.
Too many people today are looking for the easy road and listen to whited sepulchers preaching a dead version of faith. They say, but I believe in God, and I prayed to Jesus for forgiveness and salvation. The National Council of Churches, and more and more the American Council of Churches are nothing more than whore houses of the lawless one. They pander to a collectivist theology, liberation theology, and pantheology. I shake my head in sadness when I hear people saying things like, “well my mom and dad believe, so I’m cool”. Or they think the collective can transfer some of their (although they probably don’t possess it either) salvation to them. That’s the method of Karl Marx employed, and DEployed to destroy as many people as they can.
People don’t want TO DO the will of the Father claiming that Christ did so they no longer have to follow Gods will, which is His Law/Commandments. They are dead in sin because of preachers like this Joel character, and just don’t know any better, because they are simply too lazy to learn under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Instead when they have a question they turn to their whited sepulcher preacher. They are none the less dead in sin, but it’s the preacher who has the greater sin.
Heavens judgment chamber will have a lot of millstones to decorate those preachers with.
When sin is revealed I can rejoice with Paul, and then get to work on crushing that sin through the Spirit.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 2:44am@ I support God’s Israel! Say there was a draft and a man was drafted into the army now after his duties were fulfilled is he still bound to the army or has he been released from his duties? Or a more Biblical example, a wife whose husband has died, is the wife still bound to her marriage or in the passing of her husband been released? (Romans 7:1-6) Jesus did the same. He died and having nailed to the cross the handwriting of requirements that was against us (Col. 2:14 Eph. 2:15). BTW the 10 commandments cannot be separated from the Law of Moses like that. Either the whole law (including the 10 Commandments) are to be followed or none of it is. Yes I know, “Well then that means it’s ok to steal and kill then!” No. Because before the 10 commandments were even given it was wrong to steal and kill. Think of it this way, say you decided to become a citizen of another country, are you bound to follow the laws of your native country or are you under your current nation’s laws? Just because someone moves from the US to Australia doesn’t mean that laws concerning stealing and killing no longer apply. Sure one can no longer drive on the right side of the road, and other various laws are different but it’s still wrong in both countries to steal and kill. Just like with both covenants.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:00am@ JJ Coolay
I love God the Father, The Word, and the Holy Spirit more than anything in my life. I try with everything in me to honor my dad and mom as I love God because in them and their faithful service to the Lord Jesus Christ I can clearly see the Shadow of Messiah. That’s my goal, to be more Christ like every day.
Lessons from my dad and mom was to show the way through life. Work is required to earn our own place. What they achieved is nothing but a lesson to mark the way to go. What I have now I’ve earned. My employer rewards my efforts, and the harder I work, the greater the reward. If I had the position and didn‘t do any work I wouldn’t have what I have now, nor would I have a job.
Salvation through faith at the foot of the Cross and Grace of Christ is entry level. To progress in faith we ALL will be shown works through the Spirit that will draw us closer along the narrow path before us. Thus, faith without works is dead because it only witnesses of itself. It requires the second witness, works, to mark us on the path to the Kingdom of Heaven. The works required are spiritual works, and they point directly to drawing more perfect to fulfillment of the Law, which is Gods will toward us.
When I go to work I strive to be the best employee I can possibly be. Even if it requires continuing education, and at times doing and going to places I don’t really care for. What the Spirit reveals is the work to be the best of Gods children I can be.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:26am@ scarebear83
Paul makes a rather revealing statement in Romans chapter 3 verse 25, “Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;”
Interesting. For the remission of SINS THAT ARE PAST.
That goes directly back to Jesus writing in the dirt when they brought the adulterous woman before Him to see if He would condemn her. Jesus straight away told them that he who was without sin, cast the first stone. They scurried away, as they should. What did Jesus say to the woman? John 8:10-11 Jesus stood up and said to her, “Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?” She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said, “Neither do I condemn you; go, and from now on sin no more.”
She found forgiveness at the foot of the Cross. The Grace of the Lord Jesus. BUT, He gave her a further directive. GO, AND FROM NOW ON SIN NO MORE.
Sin is revealed by Gods teachers, preachers, priests. It is better taught by the Holy Spirit witnessing to our heart. We know Gods will by His Word, the Torah. It’s our JOB to draw closer. As sin is revealed as sin it MUST be repented of. We know sin BY THE LAW! Unrepentant sin (sin not turned away from) is sinning again, requiring the first works. Jesus doesn’t appreciate being nailed to the Cross daily for reprobate sinners.
Ignorance of the Law is no excuse.
Report Post »Kitkarr
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 1:30pmJOHNK144 – I’m a bit confused. 2 questions for you – Do you profess faith in Jesus Christ as your Savior? Are you saying that The New Testament isn’t part of The Word of God?
Report Post »G.W. Dobbs
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 2:09pmWe KNOW who you are, Osteen…you are one of those “Universalists” who believe “ALL will be saved”, a LIE straight from Satan along with “there are many WAYS (paths, religions) to Heaven”.
Report Post »It is Apostotic, “feel good” ministers(?) like you who are fooling people into thinking they can get into Heaven by simply “Asking Jesus into their Heart”. What a CROCK! And 90% of “Christans” have bought into that LIE. Only by the Scriptures can one get into Heaven and those scriptures are ICor.15:1-4 and Rom. 10:9. Homosexuals UNREPENTANT and ACTIVE, ON-PURPASE SINNERS will NOT go to Heaven. You need to adhere to the BIBLE, Joel. Your JUDGMENT is nigh.
arckangjell
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:45pmleviticus 18:22 men laying with men is an abomination
Report Post »arckangjell
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:56pmleviticus 18:22 homosexualality is an abomination
Report Post »Vechorik
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 5:52pmWhat baffles me the most about evangelicals not supporting Paul is that besides Perry (who will be out soon), Paul is the only Evangelical Christian in the race. There are two Mormons and two Catholics (and very slimy ones at that), and evangelical Christians are supporting them?!?!
I think it should be pointed out that Paul is the only evangelical in the running. Also, most Christians are not aware of the fact that Ron Paul will be, in his own words, the most pro-life President in history. It’s also important to point out that by cutting all foreign aid, Paul will be helping Israel, since we currently give more money to Israel’s enemies than we give to Israel.
Report Post »Black Manta
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 5:59pmFalse teaching starts with “I believe”…Yes not one of us are sinless which means none will get to heaven, now that’s the whole purpose of the cross so we can make it to heaven..Yes homosexuality is a sin (proof) Levi 18:22 & 20:13 read for yourselves..God would rather you be poor and miserable than rich and blind Matt 19:24….Being a blessing to others is simply not being one with money but, passing the Word of God which trump everything…He keeps saying pray pray pray but , he’s not telling her why you should pray, God isn’t a genie..Now his doctrine lacks truth and there’s not enough Christ which is what your life my life everyones life is about..this isn‘t about us it’s about Jesus…
Report Post »MMort
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 6:33pmI find NOTHING this greedy ,so called preacher ,says to be funny or biblical. He really only uses enough scripture to prove his “God is Love” theme. Yes God loves we sinners but he expects us to ask for forgiveness of these sins and TURN from our wicked ways. If homosexuals go to heaven they will have to have stopped sinning. NO SIN WILL ENTER THERE! This man has just found a way to preach “name it and claim it” as a way to be rich. If ministers efforts create wealth they should share it with others, not live like a king. Crystal Cathedral shows us just how far that can go.
Report Post »GETLIFE
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 7:14pmWhat a weird sight! All of these “Christians” duking it out about their definitions of sin and who will make it to heaven. You guys sure you haven’t been reading the Little Green Book?
Osteen’s message keeps leading people to Christianity, I wouldn’t interfere….
Report Post »icandycustoms
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 11:40pmJesus came to destory the works of the devil. A man or woman must repent (a sorrowful heart) and turn from their sin. A gay person that has received Jesus and is not walking and doing the works of Satan will receive mercy from their sins. But any person that walks in sin, has no Jesus. May God have mercy on their souls. Amen thank you Jesus! The word that became flesh.
Report Post »TRUTHSENSE
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 2:00amCESSNA152 makes a good point, but to say that David was one of the most despicable kings in the old testament is a bit of stretch. CESSNA152 needs to read about Manasseh and some of the later kings of Israel. They make David look like an angel.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 3:06pm@ Black Manta
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 5:59pm
False teaching starts with “I believe”…Yes not one of us are sinless which means none will get to heaven, now that’s the whole purpose of the cross so we can make it to heaven.
———————————————————————————————————–
Propitiation of sin. Absolutely. The Spirit of God speaks to us through ALL of creation. It’s those physical (earthly) lessons which are to order our life while we’re in this shell. The sad part is that people want the Spiritual before they are willing to do the physical will of the Father. Again, John 3:12 clarifies Messiahs message on this. John 3:12 “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?”
People are readily willing to accept the Spiritual salvation through the Grace of God offered through the sacrificial blood of Jesus. People aren’t quite as willing to accept the earthly, physical will of God. Jesus defined that will. It wasn’t the superficial idea that His commandments overturned Gods will. It was the message of LOVE. 1 John declares how this accomplished, 1 John 5:3 “FOR THIS IS THE LOVE OF GOD, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
Branches that don’t bare fruit are cut out before they can harm the tree.
There is a VAST difference between “believe” and THUS SAITH THE LORD!
Report Post »VoteBushIn12
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 3:28pm@CHRISTINE GRAHAM
Oral sex most certainly IS sodomy
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/sodomy
“1: anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.
2: copulation with a member of the same sex.”
In addition to to being used in reference to homosexual sex, it is also commonly used to represent anything that is not heterosexual ******* intercourse (anal, oral, hand, breast, etc)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but you’re all going to hell along with the Gays.
Report Post »greatgrandma
Posted on March 26, 2012 at 11:24amJesus said, the Kingdom of God is within you. Since God and mammon cannot reside in the same place then the sinner can not enter the Kingdom of God within. When he accepts God, then he will know that inner peace and have that personal relationship. I believe we ALL go back to where we come from. There is where we will still be learning and evergrowing in our relationship with our Lord.
Report Post »LadyLibertykicksASS
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:59amJoel Osteen creeps me out.!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:18amHe’s living up to the name Joel….haha. Gay people aren’t going to get into heaven. Does the Father in Heaven marry the Father in Heaven? No!
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:21amThere are many false prophets and priests.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:22amThis thing was shown in the Books of Moses whereby the fat is dumped outside the camp.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:25amSnake oil salesman.
Report Post »NeoFan
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:40amHe makes really good money selling his “Gospel”. Name it and Claim it. Shake it and Bake it.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:43amI‘m afraid almost all people just don’t understand the Bible. In revelation when hell gives up the dead (which has already happened) then people are dealt the fruit they have earned. And if someone was dealt the gay fruit, then only through being born again, can they possibly acquire the Kingdom of Heaven, because it must be that in their past lives they didn’t labor hard enough.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:55amYou see, in my heart there is the light, and then there is the true light I would like to become, and I see that I am an “I”, because I am looking at the true light that reflects back onto me which lets me know I am someone separate from the one true light. A true light that is more perfect (although not completely perfect or that true light would fall). And so I want to have a son to reach for that true light, and so I give my children over to Liberty and the Lord because the true light is better than I am. But if my heart didn’t understand the light neither see it, then I would look for someone like me to feed my gluttony for myself.
Report Post »kiwis-in-USA
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:56amAgree!!! Creeps me out too. I wonder how much money Jesus had? Oh wait, he had none!!!! Maybe the lad needs to read his Bible. Just an excuse for him to live the high life.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:03amSo you see, the reason men are coming to be plagued by homosexuals is because men are destroying the light in their children that understands the true light, and then when they are born again, they come into the world with the gay fruit.
Report Post »GPS-Tech
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:26amJoel doesnt want to disinclude anyone because it would hurt his profits. He is more about warm fuzzy feelings rather than teaching the true word.
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:31amIs this Joels way of Peeking his head out of the closet…..
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:32am@ELIASIM…That light is Jesus Christ…the only begotten Son of God the Father…and He is perfect…No sin was found in Him. John 1:1 in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The light is perfect Eliasim..
Report Post »Him who knew no sin he made to be sin on our behalf; that we might become the righteousness of God in him.2Cor 5:2
guntotinsquaw
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:19pm@Eliasim…Your such an expert on who will enter the realm of God..
Deuteronomy 23:2– A mongrel shall not enter the congregation of the Lord, even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord…
As very few Americans are of pure blood (including Christians) don’t you think you guys have more to worry about. The 10th great grandchild of a mixed blood isn’t getting in. What’s in your family tree?
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:27pm@Eliasim and Ashes to Ashes….we should take this important discussion to a forum. Would love to discuss. There is too much at stake, brothers and sisters. dbabij@yahoo.com
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 12:56amThere‘s nothing wrong with being rich but I don’t think God is hoping that for any/all of us. In fact, the bible says it’s easier for a camel to pass through a small city gate than for a rich man to enter heaven. I don’t believe we “must” be poor, but it’s an ill-conceived notion that we should all be prosperous. God cares about the state of our hearts. Everything else is like a blade of grass that withers in the heat of the sun.
Report Post »The10thAmendment
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 4:09pmAbove is just a sampling of how the Scriptures of God have been out pacing todays most advanced proven and theoretical Physics. There is MUCH, MUCH more than can be gleaned from the Torah if we would simply follow direction, being, to study to show ourselves approved of God.
The same sequences that exist in physical Nature point as a Shadow to Messiah. By advancing the same exercise we can apply it to music, and the songs of the Universe. The spiral created by sound has direct correlation to colors (see the rainbow and tonal scales, frequency, etc). Even our DNA adheres to those traits.
When God stretched the heavens, the single force that remains constant (against the laughable theoretical silliness of Hawking) is Gravity. God declared that He holds ALL creation together BY THE WORD. Through Gravity all things are drawn together to express our physical universe. We have a word used to describe this, it’s the LAW of Gravity. There are 3 other natural Laws that govern our existence, but they are functional.
At NO POINT can we escape the Law. BUT, we can be set free FROM THE PUNISHMENT of the Law. Receive the Grace of God through Christ. Our past is as though it never happened according to salvation, BUT, we are required to SIN NO MORE. By the Law I know sin. Through the Spirit that draws all things, we conquer sin. The LAW is unavoidable to continue in Grace.
Report Post »BODYBAG
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:56am“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after
their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears”
“Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither
Report Post »were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish
heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools”
Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:56amProverbs 30:5-6
Report Post »5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
tomloy
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:56amIts is not Joel’s place to say WHO will get into heaven number one, and retribution, if any, belongs to God alone.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:31amIf being gay is about the kind of spirit they have, then why isn’t a gay male attracted to a gay female?
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:33amIt’s a simple answer: they have a beastly nature of domination over the same sex, and that‘s all it’s about, and they justify their activity by comparing themselves to penguins and dogs.
Report Post »cgnick
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:08pmBut there is no money in that.
Report Post »NickDeringer
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:55amThis man is a fraud and false prophet. He’s using the Bible to deceive millions. New age religion will destroy so many.
There are 14 million people being held in sex slavery around the world with the youngest being 11 months old. 11 month!!! There are 1.5 million babies slaughtered in the US alnow each year. If Jesus walked the Earth today he would be weeping every day.
Why, dear God, is Joel Olstien smiling?
Report Post »Slipstick
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:00amIt’s what he does best. The purty teeth were written off as a business expense…
Report Post »countryfirst
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:03amHe is smiling over his bank account.
Report Post »Stu D. Baker-Hawk
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:46pmWhy is Joel smiling? For the same reason that Satan smiles every time he is able to deceive a human being and turn that person from the Word of God. Joel has much to smile about… until the Day of Judgment is at hand, that is; then his smile will turn to a gnashing of teeth followed by bitter tears.
Report Post »Grasshopper42
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:53am1 Corinthians 6:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Footnotes: 1 Corinthians 6:9 The words men who have sex with men translate two Greek words that refer to the passive and active participants in homosexual acts.
Galatians 6:7-8 King James Version (KJV)
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
“And that’s all I got to say about that . . .”
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:17amMatthew 7 : 15 – 23
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Report Post »****
And thats all I have to add.
@leftfighter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:30amI actually wrestle with that verse all the time.
I know what this particular verse says, and I know that we are to repent of our sins upon recieving Christ. I also know that if someone has accepted Christ, all of his sins (past, present, and future) are washed away and he’s supposed to be allowed into heaven.
The Word also says that *all* sin is exceedingly sinful, indicating that man, not God, places degrees upon sin. In other words, God says either it’s sin, or it’s not, while man says homosexuality is worse that lying but not as bad as murder.
So, if all sin is exceedingly sinful and homosexuals aren’t going to heaven, even if they’ve accepted Christ (apparently because they haven’t repented of the sin), doesn‘t this seem to indicate that anyone who’s accepted Christ and continues to lie isn’t going to heaven either? Remember, man is the one placing relative degrees in the sin, not God.
I don‘t have an answer to this and I haven’t found one in the Bible, except that we are to repent of all sin, but that’s impossible. If we were able to live a life without sin, we’d have had no need for Jesus in the first place.
This is one of those things I’m going to love asking God when I get the chance, but by then, I don‘t think I’ll care much.
Report Post »Truth_First
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:01pm@Leftfighter:
It is via our faith, repentence, confession, and baptism that we enter into a relationship with Jesus Christ wherein it is through His grace and mercy we are saved. This washes us clean of our past sins. This does not make us unaccountable for our future actions but does give us continued access to his forgiveness.
The book of 1st John is clearly written to fellow Christians1st and John 1:5-10 states the following:
“This is the message we have heard from him and proclaim to you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with him while we walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light,as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and)the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. ”
So Christians can be out of fellowship with God if we walk in darkness, but we if walk in the light His sacrifice cleanses us from sin. It’s not that we are perfect, but if we become His children and are faithful, confessing our sins when we stray then we are forgiven. Continuing to live, or returning to live a life of sin (for example, living a homosexual lifestyle) clearly is choosing to walk in darkness & not
Report Post »the wireworker
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:22pmGod is the final arbiter and his mercy abounds. I believe if you are a homosexual you can get to heaven but a “PRACTICING” homosexual like a “practicing” THIEF will not enter the kingdom of heaven. When we accept Christ as our “PERSONAL LORD AND SAVIOR” we are made new. We put away the old self, it is a process of being sanctified when we learn that what we are doing is a sin, then we are to turn away from that sin. Some take a little longer to get through the barrier that are in front of them.
that being said there are consequences to sin. God is a covenant God, he gave us the gift of sex, the gift of creation, under the covenant of marriage. A covenant he made between a MAN & WOMAN where he says the two will become one flesh. Under the covenant of marriage sex can be used for pleasure as Paul tells us. God calls it an abomination and detestable for man to lay with man or woman to lay with woman but he also speaks of spilling seed on the ground (it would be better to lay with a whore) and to even look at a woman in lust is the sin of committing adultery. also in Romans it speaks of God giving people over to the sin of shameful lusts and unnatural relations for changing the truth of God for lies and worshipping the creation instead of the creator.
there by the Grace of God I go!
Report Post »2GodBeTheGlory
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:57pm@leftfighter
I understand your difficulty, a lest in part the issue of assigning “levels” of sin did original came from God. If you look when the children of Israel came out of bondage of Egept, laws where given down from God to Moses. Within those laws where levels of punishments / retribution for repentance. Many people “believe” that there where lots of reasons for the punishment of death, however, there are not – just shows up in multiple books. If you look at the difference between murder and trespass punishments they are quite different. Though all sin prevents you from getting into Heaven, there are sin that as God see’s it, brings death to the person that commits the sin. Jesus, however, is the fulfillment of the law and allows a sinner who repents and follows the will of the father and “sins no more” – does that mean that God says that you don’t kill a murderer anymore, although somewhat on-topic, do not have the space to bring that one up.
Report Post »maccow
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:14pm@Leftfighter
Report Post »Wireworker nailed it.
To accept Christ is to free ourselves from the curse of sin and from sin itself. Yes, the saved will sin in this life but the Holy Spirit will convict us of our sins so that we don’t continue walking in them. To continue knowingly in sin is to deny the Holy Spirit, the Word of God, and to make Jesus’ death of no value in ourselves.
I know that a homosexual can be saved and enter God’s kingdom, but not a practicing homosexual, nor a practicing thief, or murderer, or lier, etc. How do we tell them apart? We don’t because only God knows the heart. We can look at the fruit of their lives and see if the fruit of the Holy Spirit is at work through them.
To other believers that fruit is oh so evident such as what I see in the writings of wireworker and some others here though I have never met them. There is also fruit of a non-Holy Spirit variety very much in evidence here, but it is not I who judges but God via His word as understood by the Holy Spirit residing with in me.
You asked an honest question and I pray that the writings of wireworker and others bring you to a proper understanding that is in keeping with the Word and Spirit of God.
Christ’s blessings to you
Country
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:52amHave you ever really heard this man teach the bible? What does he know? He knows how the fools alot of people that’s for sure. There is a “if” condition in the Word. John 3:16 & 17. Oprah is her own god.
Report Post »HorseCrazy
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:41amI wish oprah would go away. I thought we were all done with her, her politics and new age nonsense when her show went off the air but apparently she cannot see when she is no longer wanted. Joel Osteen has helped inspire some folks with his “Christianity light” there is no denying it BUT the prosperity gospel and the no sin gospel is false teaching. Hopefully those followers will read their bibles and see the word of God for themselves.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:52am.
Pastor Joel Osteen to Oprah: Homosexuality Is Sin — But Gay People Will Get Into Heaven
So you and Gail don’t have to worry………
“But I‘m gonna burn in Hell for lying to ya’ll” Joel Osteen ………………
Report Post »G.E.R
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:50amI love the faithful but hate the faith
Report Post »altops
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:57amthat doesn’t make sense. Hate the curse of sin by giving out the redeeming gospel . Gays can go to heaven, but they’e not “going” to go unless they’ve received Christ, then if they have their sin can be won over.
Report Post »mtnclimberjim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:00amShe really wants to know if gluttony is OK in the church of Big “O” Oink , Oink
Report Post »your sensei
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:07amMOUNTAINOUSJIM . . . Have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? There are more beer guts and muffin tops and triple chins and people riding around in grocery store scooters per capita than anywhere on Earth.
Report Post »G.E.R
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:08amIf he lived today he would be considered gay
Jesus was one of the gentlest people who ever lived. He was no John Wayne. Usually we label such people as pansies no matter what their sexual preference.
Jesus totally rejected the masculine code of valour and violence universally espoused in his time. Today such people are called commies, draft dodgers and queers.
Jesus refused to marry. This was far more peculiar in his day than ours. Rabbis were always married in his day. The fact he was not married casts some doubt on whether he was an official rabbi.
Jesus had plenty of opportunity to have sex with women, but he always avoided it. If a modern man did the same, we would assume he was gay.
Jesus hung out with disreputable people, including hookers, and all manner of sinners, including sodomites. If a modern man kept such bad company, we would not assume he was 100% heterosexual.
Jesus associated almost exclusively with men. He and his friends were physically intimate with each other, putting their heads in each other’s laps to dine. If a modern North American male behaved this way, it might raise some eyebrows.
Jesus and his male friends like to kiss each other, for example Matthew 26:49. We North Americans are rather inhibited about kissing each other, though Greeks and Russians do it with gusto. If a North American male did this, of course, we would assume he was gay.
Report Post »jado1981
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:38amGER, you are out of your mind. Jesus would not have rejected today’s version of masculinity. Now if you mean, he would be against sitting at home on Sunday watching a game and drinking beer all day, sure. He was as masculine a man as any. He would kiss others as a greeting, if you actually paid any attention to the culture at that time, THEY ALL DID. They never put their heads in other people’s laps to eat, where did you get that from?
The Bible doesn’t say Jesus married, or had “familiar relations” with anyone, and we are left to assume he didn’t, plus it was unacceptable to have relations with a woman if they were not married. Also, what does hanging out with hookers and sodomites have to do with implying Jesus was gay, are all hookers men?
Your whole rant has more holes in it than piece of swiss cheese, take some time to read your Bible. Are you trying to imply that Jesus was gay? I fail to see any point to your rant, other than just practicing typing on the internet. Can you “land the plane”?
Report Post »Country
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:39amIn case you never learned, Jesus is God. God came in flesh to be our prefect sacrifice and died for you and me so that MAYBE we could have eternal life. When Jesus comes back, it will not be to die for us again, but to judge the whole world. Your choice to believe or not. Be decent and don’t trash our believes.
Report Post »scinfidel
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:19am@ GER – your view of Jesus isn’t supported in the Bible. Jesus came and fought with the religious leaders of the day, he called them vipers and instigated arguments. His companions traveled armed, he flipped tables in the courtyard and yelled at those disgracing His Father’s house.
Here Mark Driscoll gives a much better and more accurate description;
“There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. some emergent types want to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelations, Jesus is a prize fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity.”
Report Post »G.E.R
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:38amOver the last several centuries, people have made Jesus what they wanted him to be. In nineteenth-century Europe, Jesus was a Romantic, then an Existentialist. In the United States, the foremost historians of the 1920s considered Jesus a social reformer. Forty years later, in the 1960s, the same historians saw him as a radical revolutionary pushing for political change. Noone knows for sure whether Jesus was straight, gay, bisexual or celibate. There is certainly no evidence for the Church’s presumption that he was heterosexual. Nothing in the Bible points to him having desires or relationships with women. The possibility of a gay Christ cannot be ruled out
Report Post »momrules
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:41am@ SCINFIDEL……….Your post is spot on. Jesus has been made out to be a wimp by the left and far too many Christians bought into that. Some even become angry if a Christian “talks back” or doesn’t turn the other cheek(another misconception).
Jesus came the first time as a teacher, servant and sacrifice. The next time He will come as a Warrior King and he will judge all who have not accepted Him.
Report Post »sawbuck
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:17pmMOMRULES …you are spot on.
G.E.R. …Your wrong. I hope you can see that .
Go back and read your Bible again. It’s all there ,
if you have eyes to see…!
Jesus first came as “the perfect lamb without blemish” ..The perfect and last sacrifice to God to take away the sins of the world.
The next time Jesus “The Christ”…Returns in all his glory ..He will come as LION…
Lord of Lords and KING OF KINGS..!
And when his feet hits and splits the “Mount of Olives” ,
there will be a earth quake such as never was..
WARNING :
Report Post »JESUS “THE CHRIST”…. Will “NOT” be RETURNING…
For some kind of …..“BEER SUMMIT”..!
smithclar3nc3
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:33pmsenesless wrote MOUNTAINOUSJIM . . . Have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? There are more beer guts and muffin tops and triple chins and people riding around in grocery store scooters per capita than anywhere on Earth
Report Post »Yeah, just like at the welfare office or any other free gobernment handout program except they’re white and tax payers.
G.E.R
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:05pmFrom the scattered indications in the canonical Gospels and the secret Gospel or Mark, we can put together a picture of Jesus’ baptism, “the mystery of the kingdom of God.” It was a water baptism administered by Jesus to chosen disciples, singly and by night. The costume, for the disciple, was a linen cloth worn over the naked body. This cloth was probably removed for the baptism proper, the immersion in water, which was now reduced to a preparatory purification. After that, by unknown ceremonies, the disciple was possessed by Jesus’ spirit and so united with Jesus. One with him, he participated by hallucination in Jesus’ ascent into the heavens, he entered the kingdom of God, and was thereby set free from the laws ordained for and in the lower world. Freedom from the law may have resulted in completion of the spiritual union by physical union. This certainly occurred in many forms of gnostic
Report Post »GPS-Tech
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 12:05am@your sem-stain
MOUNTAINOUSJIM . . . Have you ever been to a Tea Party rally? There are more beer guts and muffin tops and triple chins and people riding around in grocery store scooters per capita than anywhere on Earth.
Report Post »Where was this rally held? at walmart? At the one in Houston I didnt see anyone riding in a scooter, a lot of GEN-Xers and most were business casual since we all came to the rally right after WORK.
The media called us racists but one vivid memory of that rally was the black cops working security looking at us with hate in their eyes.
Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:49amLeviticus 20:13
Report Post »“If a man practices homosexuality, having sex with another man as with a woman, both men have committed a detestable act.”
Annette
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:10amI think he is right. God doesn’t categorize sin. Does he judge homosexuality any differently than adultery or coveting what your neighbor has.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:24amOh yes he does, and much more severely. Because a homosexual is spiritually dead.
Report Post »Eliasim
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:27amLet me put it this way: they have the anti-fruit.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:23pmWhy’d you leave out the rest of the passage?
“They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.”
Report Post »maccow
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:37pm@Eliasim
Is it your medication that causes you to write one sentence per posting? Please my friend, finish the whole thought in one posting. Your thoughts don’t become any less incoherent by breaking them up. They don‘t even become more incoherent as that isn’t possible.
The one with the most posts does not win here.
I have asked before when posting to you, and I ask again. What bizarre religious philosophy are you espousing? Maybe I just haven’t broken your code yet.
Report Post »SREGN
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:11pmIf there’s no hope for a gay person, there’s no hope for any of us, especially a big fat cow who has made billions by making a public spectacle of other peoples’ misery. All have fallen short.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:48am.
Joel are you Gay?…….
You need to read that book you Preach from………………
Are you going to pull a Jimmy? Are you trying to CYA?………
RULE 1. Never trust a T.V. Preacher who asks for money or tries to sell you something…….
Report Post »SFsuper49er
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:24pmI can agree with that one.
Report Post »gmoneytx
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:46amI used to watch Joel Olsteen before moving to Houston back in the day, and after moving here, attended his church for awhile, the setup is huge, and rivals that of a professional sports team on game day. His message has always been positive and targeted to the times we live in…with that said, as long as any pastor helps elevate peoples faith it’s a good thing.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:44amYes, homosexuality is sin, but all sinners( and we all are) can go to Heaven with true repentance. You can’t continue in a sinful lifestyle though.
Joel Osteen should spend more time reading and trying to understand the Bible and what God wants and expects from us instead of glad-handing. I have never understood how people can like this man. I have never thought he was a true minister of the Truth.
Report Post »Joseph the Gray
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:02pmHe’s easy to like. That‘s what he’s aiming for. His message is easy to take too: keep smiling, love everybody, God is a Santa Claus. He has made millions tickling people’s ears. Some know this, others don’t believe it.
Report Post »His_Way
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:28pmAnd good things will always happen in your life if you just buy my book and uh, don’t forget to put your shopping cart back. :)
Report Post »Mahtoska
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:43amGod doesn’t demand that you be heterosexual; he demands that you be holy…period. Same-sex attraction is as much of a burden as gluttony, sloth, greed, and other sins in that it distracts one from a relationship with God in as much as God-being perfect-cannot abide sin. That said, Osteen is right, some homosexuals will undoubtedly go to heaven, but it will be those who have surrendered themselves to God and do not indulge in sin. Its very simple really and my prayers are always for those that are burdened with such tendencies be given the strength, conviction and grace to resist their baser impulses just as I pray to resist my own. Mercy, my friends, is something we all need : )
Report Post »GreenEyedGirl
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:00amWell stated Mahtoska…..
Report Post »dnewton
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:34pmI think you are correct in your analysis. I also think the gay marriage laws are an attempt to normalize or make acceptable sodomy. Once married, sex is not forbidden or seen culturally as sinful. By putting gay marriage out there, it gives the sin respectability that it could never get any other way. All of this agonizing over hospital visitation rights, inheritance and so on will never normalize homosexuality in the same was as making it legal. Gays will be in heaven, but not if they wallow in it their whole lives without repentance. Those who accept homosexuality and claim it to be normal and natural are also endangering their salvation.
Report Post »allonline
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:50pmGood comment! full of empathy. May God bless all of us, the strong a weak. And mainly those that, step by step, no just trying, are overcoming and becoming better beings, full of empathy and compassion. I am greateful for overcoming ang becoming through the Grace of God.
Report Post »zwolfe12
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:42amThis makes sense since Osteen believes all sins are equal. According to him and most “generic” Christians, the only thing that will keep you out of heaven is not accepting Jesus. Granted, that will keep you out of “heaven” but I’m affraid that people who believe that way will be shocked to find out that God does believe in accountability. That accepting Jesus Christ is just the first step to becoming a Christian and not the last.
Report Post »Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:45amBingo! John 14:6
Report Post »Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:22am“That accepting Jesus Christ is just the first step to becoming a Christian and not the last”
really? so what else do you have to add to the finished work of Christ?
Report Post »Nanner-SW
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:26amYou have to allow him to take over your life, do what he wants you to do, speak how he wants you to speak, go where he wants you to go. . . you know, basically kill your own worldly desires on a daily bases, but what you get in return is far better than anything you could hope to get in the world anyway.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:30amRush,
Let me answer your question with a question.
You are implying that Jesus did all that needs to be done, thus we do not have to do anything for salvation. What date where you saved? What was the difference the day prior to you being saved from the day AFTER you were saved? Was it something Jesus did or YOU did. Considering that Jesus died and resurrected 2000 years ago, it was something YOU did. Like it or not, you did a WORK when you accepted Jesus and went on your altar call. If Jesus’s finished work was all that is necessary, then all people would be saved, believers and unbelievers.
And nowhere in scripture does it say that your altar call is the ONLY work you must do. In fact, it says quite the opposite. All of James 2 rips sola fide to bits while James 2:24 is a silver bullet and James 2:26 puts the stake through the heart of the 500 year old heresy.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:28pm‘You have to allow him to take over your life, do what he wants you to do, speak ‘
really, post your verse to support this….
“You are implying that Jesus did all that needs to be done, thus we do not have to do anything for salvation”
oh boy you again…yes thats right…..
Ephesians 2:8-9
for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
what part of GIFT do you not understand? do you work for gifts??? hmmm???
“Like it or not, you did a WORK when you accepted Jesus and went on your altar call’
no, thats not what the bible says…..
Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.
Galatians 2:16
know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
‘
“500 year old heresy.”
more BS….so what works do you have to do?? hmmm?? since you think what Jesus did isn’t good enough.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:31pmoh and why don’t you get a clue about what James really means……
James is talking about recognizing who has true faith, and a false faith….ascentia and fiducia….
the demons have ascentia…..the believer has fiducia….trust….
but then don’t think for yourself…relying on the pope is much easier than thinking isn’t it?
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:55pmI stated: ““You are implying that Jesus did all that needs to be done, thus we do not have to do anything for salvation”
Rush replied: “yes thats right…..”
But of course you completely ignore the question I asked. What was the difference in your salvation from the day before you claimed to be saved compared to the day after? Was it something that Jesus did or you did? If it is only something that Jesus did, then all (even unbelievers) would be saved. Are unbelievers saved Rush?
Rush stated: “Ephesians 2:8-9-for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
what part of GIFT do you not understand? do you work for gifts??? hmmm???”
And as someone who believes the ENTIRE bible and how it was interpreted for the last 2000 years (compared to the last 500), I agree with every word. The problem is that your revisionist without context interpretation is wrong.
Faith is the foundation of justification. Without it, one cannot be justified. Of course it does not say that ONLY faith is needed. In fact, it says that NOWHERE in scripture. It was made up.
The works spoken of are works of the law. Jews (who had become Christians) were bragging that THEY were superior to gentile Christians because they kept the Mosaic law. There is nothing in the epistle that indicates he was speaking about doing good works in Jesus’s honor.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:43pmRush stated: “more BS….so what works do you have to do?? hmmm?? since you think what Jesus did isn’t good enough.”
Hey, I am only going by the Bible. I wish you would too instead of cherrypicking a few verses you believe supports your manmade interpretations. There are countless instances where it says we have to “do” to inherit the Kingdom of God. I can summarize it in one question that requires only a yes or no answer:
If I have faith but do not take care of my family, am I saved?
You stated: “oh and why don’t you get a clue about what James really means……”
I’m not sure that my understanding is the problem.
You stated: “James is talking about recognizing who has true faith, and a false faith….ascentia and fiducia….”
And what verse(s) does Jame make this distinction? Hint: He does not. He never says “X is a true faith” and “Y is a ‘mental assent’”. It is an entirely made up interpretation, stunning for someone who claims it has to explicitly be in the bible. Continued in next post…
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:54pmNow let us compare your interpretation that the “faith” James refers to is a “mental assent.” with verse 18:
“But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith.”
Now, let’s replace “faith” with “mental assent”, which you claim James is referring to:
“But some man will say: Thou hast (mental assent), and I have works: shew me thy (mental assent) without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my (mental assent).”
Huh? It makes no sense. Why? Because James is talking about people who have faith. And the Greek word (pestes) is used throughout the verse for “faith”, which means he did not use a separate word for “real faith” and “mental assent” in the verse.
Your interpretation is bullocks, plain and simple. Even Luther knew it, which is why he tried to have this epistle removed from scripture and called it the “Epistle of Straw.” He knew is shattered the entire sola fide concept.
You stated: “but then don’t think for yourself…relying on the pope is much easier than thinking isn’t it?”
LOL And you want US to believe that your interpretation came soley from “thinking” for yourself rather than from a pastor or a bible study CD you bought, correct? Sorry, I will take the Pope and a Church that has interpreted James 2 the same way for 2000 years anyday over your relative “flavor of the month” Protestant interpretation.
Care to take a stab at vers
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:58pmCare to take a stab at verse 26?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:14pm“Was it something that Jesus did or you did? If it is only something that Jesus did, then all (even unbelievers) would be saved. Are unbelievers saved Rush?”
this is the kind of drivel I would expect from you. It was something Jesus did…because HE brought me to faith…I sure didn’t do it on my own…all I said was thanks for the gift…
the difference is I wasn’t saved now I am…how hard is this???
“Faith is the foundation of justification. Without it, one cannot be justified. Of course it does not say that ONLY faith is needed. ”
really now??
Luke 7:50
And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
so you’re saying Jesus was lying…uh yeah what does Jesus know compared to the pope, rigth?
you don’t know the bible nearly as well as you think you do, and you’re not nearly as clever as you think you are.
“If I have faith but do not take care of my family, am I saved?”
another idiotic question…if you had faith you’d take care of your family…..you really don’t understand the grace of God, and what it really is to have faith….you must be an unbeliever.
“It is an entirely made up interpretation, stunning for someone who claims it has to explicitly be in the bibl”
no its the real interpretation of James…..I would say get a clue, but its not possible in your case…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:17pm“Now, let’s replace “faith” with “mental assent”, which you claim James is referring to:’
thanks for lying about me….no surprise, when you’re losing an argument this badly you have to make it up…the demons have mental assent….christians have that and more…trust…faith….if you were a christian you would understand…
“26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. ”
yeah so? tell me, did the thief on the cross have any deeds? was he baptized? did he have communion….was Jesus lying to him???
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:23pmI noticed you completely skipped over the verses I posted, and were unable to respond to any of them…no surprise….so you don’t understand what GIFT means…
oh and try this one on for size…
Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
so if you say your faith is a work, then God OWES you salvation…and it cannot be a gift…but the bible says salvation is a gift…so which is it hmmmmmm???
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 2:56pmLOL
Rush stated: “this is the kind of drivel I would expect from you. It was something Jesus did…because HE brought me to faith…I sure didn’t do it on my own…all I said was thanks for the gift…
the difference is I wasn’t saved now I am…how hard is this???”
If it is ALL Jesus, then why isn’t everyone saved? Is Jesus incapable of bringing Bill Maher to believe? No, but we have free will and Bill Maher CHOOSES to not believe, just like you CHOSE to believe. Bill Maher has done one thing and is not saved, you made another choice and claim To be saved. It looks like your DECISION (an act) had something to do with it, eh?
You state: “Luke 7:50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
LOL YOU MAKE MY POINT!!!!!! This is completely the reason that picking a verse out of context does not work for interpreting scripture. What did she do in the preceding verses?
1) She washed His feet with her tears.
2) She washed His feet with her hair.
3) She kissed His feet (without ceasing).
4) She anointed His feet with oil.
In other words, she did not say “I trust in Jesus” and go sit in the corner. She acted in at least 4 different ways!!!! Her faith brought her to Jesus but then she ACTED on it. And as Jesus made plainly clear, serving the poor, those in prison, etc is the same as serving Him.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:11pm“If it is ALL Jesus, then why isn’t everyone saved? Is Jesus incapable of bringing Bill Maher to believe? No, but we have free will and Bill Maher CHOOSES to not believe, just like you CHOSE to believe’
you think its YOUR choice huh? really….again you say the scripture is lying…
Romans 9
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:13pm“What did she do in the preceding verses?”
then why didn’t Jesus say, your wiping my feet with your tears has saved you??? hmmmmmm???
“She acted in at least 4 different ways!!!! Her faith brought her to Jesus but then she ACTED on it”
again, how did the thief on the cross act out his faith? I notice you can’t answer that, nor can you respond to the scripture I post…no surprise there LOL
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:16pmYou stated: “so you’re saying Jesus was lying…uh yeah what does Jesus know compared to the pope, rigth?”
Nope. I am saying that you were not even savvy enough to read verse 50 in context with the previous several verses.
You stated: “you don’t know the bible nearly as well as you think you do, and you’re not nearly as clever as you think you are.”
Ad hominem. I never claimed to be a bible genius or clever.
You stated: “another idiotic question…if you had faith you’d take care of your family…..you really don’t understand the grace of God, and what it really is to have faith….you must be an unbeliever.”
How silly. Unfortunately (for you), Paul disagrees with you. He says 1 Tim 5:8:
“But if any man have not care of his own, and especially of those of his house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.”
An infidel is someone without faith. How can someone who you claim has no faith be worse than an “infidel” (someone without faith)? This also shoots down the “once saved always saved” heresy. You have to DO something, one of which is take care of your family.
You stated: “no its the real interpretation of James…..I would say get a clue, but its not possible in your case…”
Too funny. I asked for a specific verse where James delineates between “mental assent” and a “true faith” and you provide zero, zip, nada. You then say it is the “real” interpretation. So, you are claiming infallibility?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:16pm“And as Jesus made plainly clear, serving the poor, those in prison, etc is the same as serving Him.”:
really, so how many times do you have to do each of those to be saved? and what happens if you’re just ONE short???? hmmmm???
your theology is ridiculous and illogical….
oh wait I know, I know..you can just give the roman church money, for an INDULGENCE…right…..
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:21pm“How silly. Unfortunately (for you), Paul disagrees with you. He says 1 Tim 5:8:”
uh Paul doesn’t disagree with me…you either didn’t read what I said, or you are deliberately lying about it….again though, how did the thief on the cross take care of his family? oh he didn’t, so Jesus MUST have been lying according to you, right???
“You have to DO something, one of which is take care of your family.’
so you’re saying Jesus lied to the thief on the cross…and the bible is lying about Abraham too…He believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness…..galations 3:8
so what do you have to do? and how many times of each of whatever you have to do, do you have to do???
and you keep going back to James…ok what did Abraham do to be declared righteous?? hmmm????
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:31pm“Too funny. I asked for a specific verse where James delineates between “mental assent” and a “true faith” and you provide zero, zip, nada. You then say it is the “real” interpretation. So, you are claiming infallibility?”
of course James has nothing to do with salvation but with how to recognize a true believer from one who is not….
of course you miss this…
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?
CLAIMS to have faith…..
the works prove his faith is true, or not….to us…God looks at the heart….
as far as what demons believe….
18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
so the demons believe in one God…I do too…do you??? anyway what distinguishes their belief from a human beings? faith…..again how hard is this?
do you think demons have faith? how can they when they see God in heaven….
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:32pmRush stated: “thanks for lying about me….no surprise, when you’re losing an argument this badly you have to make it up…the demons have mental assent….christians have that and more…trust…faith….if you were a christian you would understand…”
So then you were NOT saying that James was referring to a “mental assent” when he spoke about a dead faith? That is funny, you said, “James is talking about recognizing who has true faith, and a false faith….ascentia and fiducia….”
Ascentia means a “mental/intellectual assent.” You apparently did not know that or you would not have called me a liar.
James was SPEAKING to Christians “that have that and more” yet told them that faith without works is dead. Hmmmmm.
Me: ““26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. ”
You: “yeah so?”
“So?” It is a simple (to most) analogy. Body=Faith while Spirit=Deeds. Faith without deeds is nothing but a dead body, not saved…
You stated: “tell me, did the thief on the cross have any deeds?”
Yes, he did have deeds. Not only did he decide to accept Jesus but he rebuked those who
scorned Jesus on the cross.
You stated: “was he baptized? did he have communion….was Jesus lying to him???”
No to all three with a couple of points. The thief was still covered under the OT covenant as Jesus’s work was not done and the sacraments are the normal means to receive grace but not the ONLY means. The CCC refers to
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:42pm“Yes, he did have deeds. Not only did he decide to accept Jesus but he rebuked those who
scorned Jesus on the cross.”
so thats his work huh? so Jesus OWED him salvation, since according to romans….(which you ignored)
Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
so you’re saying JESUS OWED HIM salvation because of that work…but how can that be when salvation is a gift?? hmmm??
“The thief was still covered under the OT covenant as Jesus’s work was not done and ”
well if Jesus work wasn’t done, how could He tell the thief he was saved??? hmmmm???
try to answer the question is salvation a gift, YES OR NO…
does God choose those who will be saved??? YES OR NO…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 3:43pm““So?” It is a simple (to most) analogy. Body=Faith while Spirit=Deeds. Faith without deeds is nothing but a dead body, not saved…”
again you are denying scripture….salvation is a gift, but you are saying salvation is OWED to us since salvation is by works…..
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:00pmContinued:
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH TEACHES THAT ONE IS JUSTIFIED BY GOD’S GRACE ALONE! HOWEVER, IF AFTER BEING JUSTIFIED BY GOD’S GRACE, ONE DOES NOT DO THE WILL OF GOD (MATT 7:21), ONE DOES NOT PRODUCE GOOD FRUIT (JOHN 15:1-6), ONE DOES NOT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS (MATT 19:17), ONE DOES NOT DENY HIMSELF AND PICK UP HIS CROSS DAILY (LUKE 9:23), ONE DOES NOT CARE FOR HIS FAMILY (1 TIM 5:8), ONE DOES NOT EAT THE FLESH AND DRINK THE BLOOD OF THE SON OF MAN (JOHN 6:51-58), ONE DOES NOT LABOR FOR THE FOOD WHICH ENDURES TO ETERNAL LIFE (JOHN 6:27), ONE DOES NOT FORGIVE THE SINS OF OTHERS (MATT 6:14-15), ONE DOES NOT FEED THE HUNGRY AND CLOTHE THE NAKED (MATT 25:31-46), ONE DOES NOT PROVIDE A RETURN ON THE TALENTS GIVEN TO ONE BY THE MASTER (MATT 25:14-30), ONE DOES NOT LOVE HIS BROTHER (1 JOHN 2:9-11), THEN ONE CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION! IT’S IN THE BIBLE, RUSH!!!
Romans 2 6-7:
Report Post »Who will render to every man according to his WORKS.To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life:
rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:08pm“THEN ONE CAN LOSE THEIR SALVATION”
lots of shouting….looks like the truth really hurts…you think you can lose your salvation? oh if you could lose your salvation, no one would be saved….
2 timothy 4
18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil attack and will bring me safely to his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
you keep calling Jesus a liar….
john 6:
37 All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
Hebrews 13
Never will I leave you;
never will I forsake you.”[a]
you even say Peter your first pope is lying…
1 peter 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Paul pronounced a terrible judgment on this man….yet he was saved..
1 corinthians 5
Report Post »4 So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5 hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,[a][b] so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.
rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:09pm“Who will render to every man according to his WORKS”
so you are denying the bible, and you think salvation is a work…no surprise.
you’re not really a christian are you now? fess up.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:24pm“Romans 2 6-7:
Who will render to every man according to his WORKS.”
you deliberately confuse salvation with rewards.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:29pm@ Rush Eph. 2:8-9 and James 2 seem to contradict one another if you look at them side by side. Is it by doing nothing and the Lord choosing you? (which I can’t seem to find Biblical evidence for) or is it by works? James 2:24 is the only place you will find the words “faith only” in the Bible but it states, “You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” So which is it? Works or no works? Let me give you an illustration by asking some questions. When the Lord was going to flood the world did He build the ark for Noah? Did He tell Noah that he could make the ark however he wanted? Or did God give specific instructions for Noah on how to build the ark in which he and his family could be saved? Was it faith only that saved Noah or Noah having faith AND obeying God’s commands? What about Naaman? Was he cleansed of his leprosy simply by having faith or was he told to actually do something? What happened AFTER he dipped in the Jordan 7 times? Ask yourself these questions and then ask yourself is it by faith we are saved or by works…. or…. by both? Like with Noah God gave us salvation but it can only come if we do specifically as God commanded. We can’t get ourselves to heaven (ie building an ark out of cedar rather than gopher wood) but by doing what God has commanded us to do which is hearing the word (Rom 10:17) believe (Heb 11:6) repent (Luke 13:3) confess (Rom 10:9-10) be baptized (Acts 2:38, Mark 16:16)
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:38pmYou stated: “you think its YOUR choice huh? really….again you say the scripture is lying…Romans 9″
LOL I love how you just choose to drop scripture without explaining what YOU think it means. Here is a hint. I believe it but I do not believe your fallible interpretation of it.
You stated: “then why didn’t Jesus say, your wiping my feet with your tears has saved you??? hmmmmmm???”
Because they did not, nor did I say they did. Please try to follow. We are NOT justified by works. No Catholic believes that.
You stated: “again, how did the thief on the cross act out his faith? I notice you can’t answer that, nor can you respond to the scripture I post…no surprise there LOL”
Uh, I responded to both.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:44pm@TARLETSONQUARTER ‘Show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works..I am not Catholic..but I know that this is true.. So also faith alone without works is dead James 2:17
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:47pmYou stated: “really, so how many times do you have to do each of those to be saved? and what happens if you’re just ONE short???? hmmmm???”
How much faith do you need? A mustard seed? Less? What happens if your a little short?
Your premise is all faulty. If one is counting his works, then he is not doing them for the right reason and they are useless anyway.
You stated: “your theology is ridiculous and illogical….”
So ridiculous and illogical that the entire Christian Church believed it for 1500 years before men invented new theology. Now that is arrogance.
You nstated: “oh wait I know, I know..you can just give the roman church money, for an INDULGENCE…right…..”
I love it when people speak about things they are clueless about (not to mention irrelevant to the discussion). You are good at it.
You stated: “uh Paul doesn’t disagree with me…you either didn’t read what I said, or you are deliberately lying about it….again though, how did the thief on the cross take care of his family? oh he didn’t, so Jesus MUST have been lying according to you, right???”
Huh? How do you know that he did not provide for his family? And you ignore the thrust of Paul’s statement, that someone who does not is WORSE than someone who does not believe. How can someone you claim “does not believe” be worse than someone who does not believe. Your arguments are nonsense.
Report Post »SavedByTheLamb
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:50pmI’m curious. Those of you who are in disagreement with Tarleton, so what do you believe happens to your personal relationship with Jesus when you sin? Do you believe that no matter what you do, you’re “saved” and given a free pass to heaven. Doesn’t sin damage your friendship with Jesus? How do you make it right?
How do you incorporate verses like Matthew 25: 31-36 into your theology? What happens if you don’t die to yourselves and follow Jesus? How does that fit into in your thinking?
I am a Roman Catholic like Tarleton. I am honestly trying to understand where you are coming from on this question. The protestant assertion seems to be that once you make an “altar call” you are not accountable for your sins from that point on? Is that true?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:55pm“@ Rush Eph. 2:8-9 and James 2 seem to contradict one another if you look at them side by side. Is it by doing nothing and the Lord choosing you? (which I can’t seem to find Biblical evidence for”
did you miss Romans 9??
they don’t contradict each other…salvation is a gift of God…not by works…James is talking about how to identify true faith…for us to identify it…God already knows who has true faith…He doesn’t need to see any works to know whats in our hearts, does He?? obviously not.
“Ask yourself these questions and then ask yourself is it by faith we are saved or by works…. or…. by both?”
what part of ‘not by works lest any man should boast’ do you not understand?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:57pm“How much faith do you need? A mustard seed? Less? What happens if your a little short?”
you just told me you need works….now you’re saying its faith…you really are confused.
“Because they did not, nor did I say they did. Please try to follow. We are NOT justified by works. No Catholic believes that. ”
no HE didn’t…He said FAITH…..not works……you just said it was works…you said you have to do so many works or you’re damned….which is it? faith or works? you’re very confused
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:02pmYou stated: “so you’re saying Jesus lied to the thief on the cross…and the bible is lying about Abraham too…He believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness…..galations 3:8″
No, we have no idea if the thief provided for his family. And yes, believing is righteousness…Perfectly in line with Catholic teaching. Your point?
You stated: “and you keep going back to James…ok what did Abraham do to be declared righteous?? hmmm????”
He believed (had faith) and then perfected that faith through works. Is that so hard to understand?
You stated: “of course James has nothing to do with salvation but with how to recognize a true believer from one who is not….”
I‘ll take Augustine’s word over yours. HE says that James wrote to put down the heresy taught by Simon Magus and the Nicolites, who were bastardizing Paul’s meaning in Romans to mean a faith alone theology. You apparently claim to be a heretic SMARTER than Augustine!
You stated: ” of course you miss this…
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?”
I missed nothing. Your interpretation is silly. You are claiming that James is speaking about someone who does not really have faith. Lets look at the ENTIRE verse (next post):
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:14pm“What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith, but hath not works? Shall faith be able to save him?”
Again, you are claiming it is not a real faith. Let’s substitute your meaning into the verse:
“What shall it profit, my brethren, if a man say he hath faith (but it is fake/not saving), but hath not works? Shall (a fake) faith be able to save him?”
You really want to contend that James would ask if a “fake faith” is able to save him? That is silly. Of course not.
You stated: “as far as what demons believe….”
You keep bringing up demons and I have no idea why. I have never mentioned them, nor does James. James is talking about believing people.
You stated: “so thats his work huh? so Jesus OWED him salvation, since according to romans….(which you ignored) ”
Not only did I not ignore Romans, but Jesus owed him nothing. Never said He did. Please debate me instead of your self-constructed straw-men.
You stated: “so you’re saying JESUS OWED HIM salvation because of that work…but how can that be when salvation is a gift?? hmmm??”
Please show me (exact quote with time posted) where I said Jesus owed him salvation or retract and apologize.
You stated: “well if Jesus work wasn’t done, how could He tell the thief he was saved??? hmmmm??? ”
Uh, He’s Jesus. What more do you need?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:15pm“And yes, believing is righteousness…Perfectly in line with Catholic teaching. Your point?”
because you said he did a work by defending Jesus….why do you keep changing your story? ie lying…hmmmm???
“He believed (had faith) and then perfected that faith through works. Is that so hard to understand?”
where does it say abraham perfected his faith via works??? hmmmm???
“who were bastardizing Paul’s meaning in Romans to mean a faith alone theology. ”
uh huh…
Ephesians 2:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
who is bastardizing the gospel?? hmmm???
again what part of GIFT do you not understand?
“You are claiming that James is speaking about someone who does not really have faith”
yeah thats why James said CLAIM…duhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:16pm“I am a Roman Catholic like Tarleton. I am honestly trying to understand where you are coming from on this question. The protestant assertion seems to be that once you make an “altar call” you are not accountable for your sins from that point on? Is that true?”
Romans 6
1 What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2 By no means! We are those who have died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:21pmYou stated: “again you are denying scripture….salvation is a gift, but you are saying salvation is OWED to us since salvation is by works…..
Again, please show where I stated it was “owed” to us and that salvation was by works. You will not because I have not…
You stated: ““Romans 2 6-7:
Who will render to every man according to his WORKS.”
you deliberately confuse salvation with rewards.”
Funny how you omitted the next line, which indicates the “reward” is “eternal life.”
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:24pm“You keep bringing up demons and I have no idea why. I have never mentioned them, nor does James. James is talking about believing people.:”
again you‘re either lying or you don’t know what you’re talking about….
James 2:
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
you said the same thing about how the bible doesn’t say faith saves you….and you haven’t been christian enough, or man enough to admit your mistake. all you could do is dissemble….ie try to change your story….you do that quite a bit I’ve noticed…..
just like the other time we talked when all you could do is blame protestants and not man-up and admit the sin of the catholic church when it came to the nazis…..its really pathetic.
“Please show me (exact quote with time posted) where I said Jesus owed him salvation or retract and apologize.”
here’s what you said:
Yes, he did have deeds. Not only did he decide to accept Jesus but he rebuked those who
so you are saying the thief on the cross did a work…a deed…directly contradicting the bible which says salvation is a gift…as Romans makes clear…when you work, you are owed something…whereas salvation is a gift…
you are a deceiver.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:26pm“Again, please show where I stated it was “owed” to us and that salvation was by works. You will not because I have not…
You stated: ““Romans 2 6-7:
Who will render to every man according to his WORKS.”
”
uh you just did, do you even read what you wrote? laughable….you just said salvation is by works….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:27pm“Again, please show where I stated it was “owed” to us and that salvation was by works. You will not because I have not…
You stated: ““Romans 2 6-7:
Who will render to every man according to his WORKS.”
you deliberately confuse salvation with rewards.”
Funny how you omitted the next line, which indicates the “reward” is “eternal life.”
”
thanks for admitting you do believe that salvation is by works.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:37pmRush stated: “you think you can lose your salvation? oh if you could lose your salvation, no one would be saved….”
Yikes. The Prodigal Son makes this plain. He was a “son” (saved), CHOSE to give up his inheritance (unsaved), then returned to sonship (saved again).
Your verses say nothing about if we choose to renounce our faith. We need to “persevere to the end” Matthew 10:22 and “work out” our salvation “with fear and trembling” Phil. 2:12. “And that he that thinketh himself to stand, must take heed unless he fall.” 1 Cor 10:12
You stated: “you just told me you need works….now you’re saying its faith…you really are confused.”
No, YOU are confused. I have said you need BOTH.
You stated: “no HE didn’t…He said FAITH…..not works……you just said it was works…you said you have to do so many works or you’re damned….which is it? faith or works? you’re very confused”
Only a simple man thinks in either/or scenarios.
You stated: “because you said he did a work by defending Jesus….why do you keep changing your story? ie lying…hmmmm??? ”
No, it is your simple either/or thinking again.
You stated: “where does it say abraham perfected his faith via works??? hmmmm??? ”
Verse 22
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 5:45pmYou state: “19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.”
LOL Right. James is saying that even demons have faith, yet you want to state that faith is all you need? At least your claim is coherent now, if still faulty. James never contrasts the demons faith to a “true faith.” He is saying that faith is not enough, you need more.
You stated: “you said the same thing about how the bible doesn’t say faith saves you….and you haven’t been christian enough, or man enough to admit your mistake. all you could do is dissemble….ie try to change your story….you do that quite a bit I’ve noticed…..”
No mistake made because faith does save you, just not faith alone (your either/or simple thinking again).
You stated (quoting me): “Yes, he did have deeds. Not only did he decide to accept Jesus but he rebuked those who”
Unfortunately, that does not say that Jesus OWED it to him. Try again?
You stated: “uh you just did, do you even read what you wrote? laughable….you just said salvation is by works….”
The laughable part is that you have spent an entire afternoon posing a logical fallacy as “truth.“ It is called a ”false choice.“ It is not ”either/or” when it comes to faith/works.
You stated: “thanks for admitting you do believe that salvation is by works.”
Nope. Both, but keep trying!
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:12pm“LOL Right. James is saying that even demons have faith, yet you want to state that faith is all you need? At least your claim is coherent now, if still faulty. James never contrasts the demons faith to a “true faith.” He is saying that faith is not enough, you need more.”
this shows you’re either a deciever and liar…or a deeply ignorant man…
19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
belief isn’t faith….you are a liar and a deceiver you have faith in something you can’t see…demons see the supernatural world…
“Yikes. The Prodigal Son makes this plain. He was a “son” (saved), CHOSE to give up his inheritance (unsaved), then returned to sonship (saved again). ”
how do you know he was saved to begin with? just because he was a son doesn’t mean he was saved…..where do you dream this stuff up at??? LOL
“No mistake made because faith does save you, just not faith alone (your either/or simple thinking again).”
uh yeah so you’re back to saying that Jesus was lying to the woman when He said her faith has saved her….you add works…you have a works salvation, you say what Jesus did isn’t good enough…without your works…the sin of pride…the original sin of satan, you should repent.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:26pm“Unfortunately, that does not say that Jesus OWED it to him. Try again?”
uh you are the one saying Jesus owed him, because of the work he did…and as Romans 4 says, when you work you are due your wages….whereas salvation is a gift
“You stated: “uh you just did, do you even read what you wrote? laughable….you just said salvation is by works….”
The laughable part is that you have spent an entire afternoon posing a logical fallacy as “truth.“ It is called a ”false choice.“ It is not ”either/or” when it comes to faith/works.”
uh actually you are the one doing that….works flow naturally from true faith…you base your whole ideology on james and say you have to do works to be saved…when James is merely talking about how to see real faith in people….he’s not saying you have to work to be saved…but continue with your lies and deception….I don’t think you know how to be honest.
“You stated: “thanks for admitting you do believe that salvation is by works.”
Nope. Both, but keep trying!
”
don’t have to try, you keep on saying it….apparently you don’t even believe the lies you post LOL
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:31pm“TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:00pm
Continued:
”
yeah all those things you HAVE to do….or you lose your salvation…so you have a salvation of works….how hard is this?
you need to re-read your lies tarly…you can’t keep them straight…..
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 1:55am“did you miss Romans 9??” -No, did you? Context is key! Read the chapters beforehand and you’ll find Romans 9 here is talking about the children of Israel. Paul was telling them that simply because they are Abraham’s seed (fleshly lineage) does not mean they are entitled to salvation. Thus is what’s meant by stating God will have mercy on whoever. He was letting them know that the Gentiles too could have salvation. There’s nothing in context that God picks and chooses who and who not to save for then that would make God a respecter of persons.
“James is talking about how to identify true faith”
Since the Bible interprets itself can you show me the verses that state this? If not then this is adding one’s own interpretation to something that clearly is not there.
“what part of ‘not by works lest any man should boast’ do you not understand?”
I understand it perfectly. You yourself can’t for example, hit yourself over the head with a banana and claim you’re saved. However I do notice people who often use these verses fail to read the very next one “10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” Who gave us the works? God! So it’s not of ourselves but by obeying the works that God said we must do. These works came from God, not from us. Jesus even says in John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 2:22am(Cont’d) So you see then that belief is a work!
I read some of your other comments and noticed you keep implying salvation is a gift. While that is true I don‘t think you understand that just because it’s a gift doesn‘t mean it’s forced on you or ~pOof~ it’s magically in your hands. For instance let’s say I decided to give you a gift but told you that you had to go out to my car to get it. Does it make the gift any less free? Was there some effort on your part to receive that gift? Salvation is a gift but it is conditional upon obeying God’s will.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 9:02am“There’s nothing in context that God picks and chooses who and who not to save for then that would make God a respecter of persons.”
did you really read romans???
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy
so why did God HATE esau??? why did God CHOOSE to have the older serve the younger?? why does it say He will have mercy on whom He will have mercy….hmmmm??? why doesn’t it just say He will have compassion on everyone?
“Since the Bible interprets itself can you show me the verses that state this?’
its right in james….
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds?
CLAIMS to have faith??? God already knows who does and does not have faith…He doesn’t need to see any works to know if you really have faith or not….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 9:06amyeah the Lord has prepared works for us to do….but the works don’t save us….if they did then our salvation would not be a gift, but do us as wages.
“Does it make the gift any less free? Was there some effort on your part to receive that gift? Salvation is a gift but it is conditional upon obeying God’s will.”
oh so you think what Jesus did isn’t good enough….its called the sin of pride…the original sin, you should repent…
Salvation is a gift…He did it all…and all to Him I owe….I wouldn’t even want to be saved without His Spirit drawing me to salvation…
oh and what happens if you don‘t obey God’s will? do you think after you‘re saved you perfectly obey God’s will??? you never sin huh? how nice for you. the rest of us sin….and if I could lose my salvation, I would…but God holds my salvation in His hands…
1 peter 1
3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5 who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:10pmrush stated: “belief isn’t faith….you are a liar and a deceiver you have faith in something you can’t see…demons see the supernatural world…”
Of course I never said that belief and faith are the same. Your point is irrelevant. James does refer to “demons” but there is no evidence that he is speaking about such a “mental assent” throughout the chapter. You are making it up, adding to the bible.
You stated: “how do you know he [prodigal son] was saved to begin with? just because he was a son doesn’t mean he was saved…..where do you dream this stuff up at??? LOL”
Uh, it is fundamental concept in ALL of Christianity that father=God, Son=Man, and sonship=salvation in the parables of Jesus. God is the father and WE are the prodigal sons. Ask your ‘pastor”.
You stated: “uh yeah so you’re back to saying that Jesus was lying to the woman when He said her faith has saved her….you add works…”
No, did he save “faith alone?” You need faith first, as has always been the RCC postition. Grace, through faith with charity. If I say that I am justified by “grace”, would you say I am lying Of course not. You need to read in a literal fashion rather than a literalist fashion.
You state: “you have a works salvation, you say what Jesus did isn’t good enough…without your works…the sin of pride…the original sin of satan, you should repent.”
Wrong. Sorry, but my Church is the ONE founded by Christ. No need to repent.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:16pmYou stated: “uh you are the one saying Jesus owed him, because of the work he did…and as Romans 4 says, when you work you are due your wages….whereas salvation is a gift”
Nope. Never said it. You lied again.
You stated: “uh actually you are the one doing that….works flow naturally from true faith…you base your whole ideology on james and say you have to do works to be saved…”
You lied again, twice. 1) You are positing the either/or position. I have said CONSISTENTLY that salvation is from grace, through faith with love/charity. 2) I cited at least a dozen verses not from James that you ignored.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:25pmrush,
You have absolutely had the most unChristian-like demeanor of anyone I have ever encountered on this website (including non-Christians). Your arrogance is astounding. I have to ask yourself a couple of simple questions for your own growth, not to get a reply.
1) Would your pastor be proud of what you posted here, especially your demeanor?
2) Do you want Jesus to judge you in the manner that you judge those who disagree with you?
3) Is there ANY chance that you are wrong? If yes, thanks. If no, doesn’t that make you your own pope, having an infallible declaration?
God bless…
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:35pmYes I really did read Romans. Question, did you read the chapters beforehand? Who is Paul specifically talking to? As for using the verses of Jacob and Esau it just further drives the point home. God knew what Esau would become (Heb. 12:16). Does that mean God made Esau be profane? No. God had the forknowledge and that’s why He chose Jacob. But this has nothing to do with God picking and choosing who can or can’t have salvation. If that’s true then all I can do is sit back and hope He picks me. Salvation is not like picking a team for dodgeball. If it is then what’s the point of having scripture when God will just automatically pick people. There‘s no hope in that and if there’s no hope then God’s word lies. Especially this verse 1 Tim. 2:4 (God) who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
“its right in james….”
That is a mighty real stretch to claim what that verse says and it still be in context. People can claim to have faith all they want but if their actions don’t show it then do they have faith? James tells us THREE times that faith without works is what? Dead. If it’s a dead faith then does that person even have faith?
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 3:42pm“but the works don’t save us”
Ok so let me ask you this, if God tells you that you must believe (a work) and you don‘t do it you’re saved regardless? Would Noah had been saved if he decided not to build the ark but kept his faith anyway? Doesn’t make sense does it? If God says you must do this which I have COMMANDED you to do and you don’t do it then what are you? Disobedient right? Will disobedient people be in heaven?
“oh so you think what Jesus did isn’t good enough”
I never stated such a thing nor do I even claim that Jesus’ sacrifice is anything less pertaining to my salvation. Without the shedding of His precious blood I could not have hope. That was God’s part that He sent His Son to die for us. But we still have our part to do which He commanded us.
“oh and what happens if you don‘t obey God’s will? do you think after you‘re saved you perfectly obey God’s will???”
Then you’re not saved and nope. People can still fall. We are to reamin faithful unto death (Rev. 2:10) If we fall we are to repent. Even a few verses before Ephesus has been told that they “left their first love” and that they “Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place—unless you repent.”
Notice the phrase “through faith” in 1 Peter. Faith again, is your part. God can’t make you have faith, if that is so then we are nothing more than mindless p
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:11pmReading through some of your posts I noticed this:
“James is talking about recognizing who has true faith, and a false faith….ascentia and fiducia…. the demons have ascentia…..the believer has fiducia….trust….”
And then this:
so the demons believe in one God…I do too…do you??? anyway what distinguishes their belief from a human beings? faith…..again how hard is this?
do you think demons have faith? how can they when they see God in heaven….”
It seems there’s a bit of inconsistency here. Do demons have a “faith” as you claim or do they not have a faith?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:18pm“Of course I never said that belief and faith are the same. ”
uh yes you did…
“LOL Right. James is saying that even demons have faith,”
demons don’t have faith….its like I don’t have faith the sky is blue…I believe the sky is blue…don’t need faith for that
“no evidence that he is speaking about such a “mental assent” throughout the chapter. You are making it up, adding to the bible.”
belief is mental assent…how hard is this….you sir are a liar.
“Uh, it is fundamental concept in ALL of Christianity that father=God, Son=Man, and sonship=salvation in the parables of Jesus. God is the father and WE are the prodigal sons. Ask your ‘pastor”. ”
uh no, try a quick google search……sorry…..no everyone thinks exactly like you want them to….and the case can be made either way….
“No, did he save “faith alone?” You need faith first, as has always been the RCC postition. Grace, through faith with charity.”
Jesus didn’t mention the grace, although that is implied…and He sure never mentioned charity…you are the one adding to the bible.
“Wrong. Sorry, but my Church is the ONE founded by Christ. No need to repent”
yeah you’re holier-than-thou
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:24pm“Nope. Never said it. You lied again.”
yes you did…you said the thief defended Jesus, that was his work…the lady wiped Jesus’ feet with her hair…another work….YOU wrote that, now you’re trying to walk it back….again you sir are a liar.
“I have said CONSISTENTLY that salvation is from grace, through faith with love/charity.”
yes you have consistently said salvation is through WORKS….charity is a work…this denies the FINISHED work of Christ, and places you with the mormons in that you require a works salvation. the bible is very clear…salvation is a gift….and if a gift, then no work is required….because if work is required, then its your DUE WAGES….how hard is this???
“You have absolutely had the most unChristian-like demeanor of anyone I have ever encountered on this website (including non-Christians). Your arrogance is astounding”
I’ve noticed whenever you lose an argument, which is frequent, you personally attack your opponent. you should take the log out of your own eye, before you take the spec out of mine…
last time I noticed you accused me of being a useful idiot for the soviet union…I mean you’re accusations are beyond laughable….and approach the tin-foil hat wearing type.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:27pm1) Yes, how about yours?
2) Yes I am fine with that..unlike you I never have judged you….I have pointed out your lies…but I have not stooped to ad hominen attacks like you have you holier-than-thou hypocrite.
3) about salvation by grace alone through faith alone…no. is there any chance you are wrong about salvation through works?
God bless…
uh huh you’re a very passive aggressive type…you really should get some professional help.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:35pmoh and I challenge you tarl, to post those unchristian statements of mine….put up or shut up…or be a man and apologize…but I know you won’t do that…oh no….its always someone else’s fault in your little world…
“Ok so let me ask you this, if God tells you that you must believe (a work)”
belief is not a work.
Romans 4:5 , “to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness
“never stated such a thing nor do I even claim that Jesus’ sacrifice is anything less pertaining to my salvation”
anytime a work is necessary for salvation…or you could lose your salvation by not working (making a works based salvation) then yes you are adding to what Jesus did….its human pride to want some action of theirs to be necessary for salvation.
““oh and what happens if you don‘t obey God’s will? do you think after you‘re saved you perfectly obey God’s will???”
Then you’re not saved and nope.
”
ok so if you commit a sin, and then die before you get a chance to repent, you’re in hell, right?
thats pretty harsh…..I’m glad the God of the Bible holds my salvation for me, and is fatihful, though I am faithless…
so you are back to your actions that matter…you have to ask for fogiveness of sin, just before you die….because we sin constantly…at least I do…so your salvation is a work, according to you…therefore you add to the finished work of Christ…its not
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 10, 2012 at 4:36pm“It seems there’s a bit of inconsistency here. Do demons have a “faith” as you claim or do they not have a faith?”
no, no inconsistency on my part….tarl tried to say that I said demons have faith….they do not…belief is not faith…I do not have faith the sky is blue….I believe the sky is blue, don’t need faith for that…
faith is for things you cannot see……demons see the supernatural world…and God as He is…they don’t have, and don’t need faith….its a foreign concept to them.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 2:20pmMy intention was to not engage you anymore because of your high level of negativity, but I could not refuse these:
Rush stated:” …but I have not stooped to ad hominen attacks like you have you holier-than-thou hypocrite.”
If I were going to define “ad hominem attack”, I would use the clause immediately following your claim that you have “not stooped to ad hominem attacks.” Do you know what an ad hom is? Seriously?
Rush stated (regarding if there was ANY chance his interpretation of faith alone theology could be wrong): “about salvation by grace alone through faith alone…no.”
In other words, you have claimed infallibility, like a Pope, regarding your interpretation of scripture. Hey, the Ethiopian Eunuch who was very well educated knew that scripture is very difficult to understand and needed help from the apostle Philip, yet you claim infallibility. It shows a stunning lack of appreciation for scripture, on your part, that you completely discount ANY POSSIBILITY that you could interpret the scripture wrong.
Please, pray tell, what other areas of theology (or anywhere else) are you infallible?
I COMPLETELY confess that my personal interpretations can be wrong. Of course, I am very fortunate to belong to the one Church Jesus promised to protect from error. Like the Ethiopian, I can go for guidance directly to someone who traces his ordination back to Jesus, our Savior.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 4:32pm“belief is not a work.”
So belief isn’t something you do? God believes for you? Jesus lied when He said this: John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
“but trusts God”
It still indicates action on your part. Whether it be faith, trusting, believing those are ALL an action required on your part. An action that God told us we must do.
“then yes you are adding to what Jesus did”
How is one adding to what Jesus did if we do as He commanded us to? Jesus told His disciples to go and baptize people and to preach the word. In fact this is what Mark 16 states: 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.
So if belief is something God does for you then what was the purpose of this statement? It would be God‘s fault if someone didn’t believe making Him an unjust God.
“ok so if you commit a sin…”
That’s where the blood of Christ covers us. But it does not mean we can’t lose our salvation.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 4:37pm“salvation is a work, according to you…therefore you add to the finished work of Christ”
Let me see if I can get this through one more time. There are different types of works. Works of the flesh and works of God etc. Belief is just one of those works God commanded us to do. It is a work of obedience. So you see then that belief is not a boastful work because YOU decided it was something you needed but, because God gave it to us as a command in order for one to be saved. God gave us salvation but by being obedient to the guidelines He gave forth. Just look at the children of Israel in the OT. God said He would be with them if they did as He commanded. If they didn’t do as He commanded, well, look what happened to them. Salvation is from God yes, and that includes the works He gave to us. So these works can‘t be boastful if they’re obedient works (how many times have you ever run into someone who said “I did exactly as my boss told me to. Look at me I’m such a great worker because I was obedient.” If you did you probably thought, wow, what a jerk! You can‘t really boast if you’re doing what you were commanded to).
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 8:21pm“Do you know what an ad hom is? Seriously?”
uh huh I guess you missed that part about taking the log out of your own eye…you passive aggressive holier than thou hypocrite.
“In other words, you have claimed infallibility, like a Pope, regarding your interpretation of scripture”
thats right…bow down. yeah I believe what the bible says in infallible…and thats clearly what it says..how hard is this? oh yeah you don’t trust your own lying eyes…you have to have the pope tell you what to believe. its rather obvious you don’t have the intellect to think for yourself.
“I can go for guidance directly to someone who traces his ordination back to Jesus, our Savior.”
I go to Jesus Himself, and His word…you should try that sometimes….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 8:30pmSo belief isn’t something you do? God believes for you? Jesus lied when He said this: John 6:28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.” ”
did you notice THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD…not this is YOUR work….
“It still indicates action on your part. Whether it be faith, trusting, believing those are ALL an action required on your part. An action that God told us we must do.”
not according to Romans…
Romans 4:
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.
“How is one adding to what Jesus did if we do as He commanded us to?”
when you make it a requirement for salvation.
“told His disciples to go and baptize people and to preach the word.”
so according to you, you have to do this for salvation…then you have a works-based salvation…not one of grace.
“But it does not mean we can’t lose our salvation.”
you tell me how then, when the Lord holds our salvation…its not like we have a get-out-of-hell free card or anything. He is the One who draws us, who saves us, who holds us, and will eventually deliver us….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 11, 2012 at 8:37pm“Let me see if I can get this through one more time. There are different types of works.”
how about this….
Isaiah 64:
6 All of us have become like one who is unclean,
and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;
we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
“. So you see then that belief is not a boastful work because YOU decided it was something you needed but, because God gave it to us as a command in order for one to be saved”
really…
Ephesians 2:
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
so if belief is a work, then you can boast….and if its a work, then salvation is not a gift.
“Salvation is from God yes, and that includes the works He gave to us”
you need to decouple works from salvation….works are for our rewards….not our salvation….that you think you need to do works for salvation is the sin of pride, the original sin….you should repent.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 9:19amI stated: “Do you know what an ad hom is? Seriously?”
Pope Rush replied: “uh huh I guess you missed that part about taking the log out of your own eye…you passive aggressive holier than thou hypocrite.”
The “log” comment is irrelevant. You stated (emphasis added), “I HAVE NOT STOOPED TO AD HOMINEM ATTACKS” and later in the VERY SAME sentence said, “you holier-than-thou hypocrite.”
That is an “ad hominem.“ That you have not ”stooped” to them is patently absurd, even repeating the ad hom in your latest post.
You state: “thats right (I am infallibe)…bow down.”
Nice. Check/Mate. Thanks for proving that a reasonable discussion with you is impossible.
You state: “yeah I believe what the bible says in infallible…and thats clearly what it says..how hard is this?”
It is SOOOOO clear, that no one believed in “faith alone” for the first 1500 years of Christianity, until the men who founded your church invented it. It is also SOOOOO clear, that the Ethiopian eunuch tells Philip that scripture is too hard to interpret without somone (in this case, an apostle) to guide him. Yet you claim infallibility and more intelligence than the eunuch, who was an educated high level functionary of government.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 9:37amPope Rush stated: “oh yeah you don’t trust your own lying eyes…you have to have the pope tell you what to believe.”
You are darn right that I do not trust my “lying eyes.” I believe the bible when it says, ““How can I (understand scripture), unless someone guides me?” Acts 8: 31 So-called “personal interpretation,” like sola fide, sola scriptura, and countless other Protestant doctrines were invented in the last 500 years as “traditions of men.” People of the early church did not sit around personally interpreting scripture. A) There was none until late 4th century (compiled, canonized, and preserved by the One, True, Holy, and Apostolic Catholic Church-You are welcome for that.) and B) they had to be hand written, meaning that the very few in existence were owned by churches and royalty, not the masses, who were mostly illiterate anyway. Nope, far from relying on “personal interpretation,” the people of the early church relied almost solely on the pope (not you) and the magisterium. Paul does not hand out bibles, he preaches and appoints others to preach.
Pope Rush stated: “its rather obvious you don’t have the intellect to think for yourself.”
And you do not have the intellect to know your own limitations to the point of declaring your word “infallible” regarding sola fide. I have asked this before but you never replied, so it begs to be asked again. What other doctrines can you proclaim infallibly?
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 9:56amMe: ““I can go for guidance directly to someone who traces his ordination back to Jesus, our Savior.”
Pope Rush: “I go to Jesus Himself, and His word…you should try that sometimes….”
Well, let’s go right to His word.
What is the pillar and ground of truth? Is it your “personal interpretation” of the Bible? No, His word says, the Church. 1 Tim 3:15
How do you know the spirit of truth from the spirit of error? From reading the the Bible through “personal interpretation”? Hey, reading the Bible is always a good thing but 1 John 4: 6 tells us that we know truth from error by listening to the APOSTLES. What church do you attend, Pope Rush? Is it one started by someone appointed by Jesus (an apostle) or a heretic 1500-2000 years later?
By all means, live by His word. But live by all of it and do not just cherrypick verses that support what you WANT to believe and then “church shop” for one that agrees with you.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 10:21amPope Rush,
Here is just one more example of why a little humilty is needed on your part.
You ignored my reply regarding the prodigal son. I believe it is because you KNOW that you are wrong.
We both know (along with every Christian of every denomination I have ever been in contact with) that when the parables of Jesus refer to a father/master, He is speaking about God. When he refers to a son/servant, He is speaking about us. When we are a “son” of God, we are “saved.“ If we are not a ”son,” we are not saved. Do you STILL claim that the Prodigal Son is NOT about sonship/salvation?
Again, this is a simple concept that is universal throughout the entire Christian realm. Yet, you GOT EVEN THIS RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLE CONCEPT WRONG!!!! Despite that, you have the nerve to claim infallibility on a topic (sola fide) that even the most brilliant Protestant theologians would admit is VERY complicated to the point that Protestant churches break away from each other over it?
Yet you claim your personal interpretation of sola fide is infallible, even though you did not even know the Prodigal Son is about salvation.
Yeesh!
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:09pm“That is an “ad hominem.“ That you have not ”stooped” to them is patently absurd, even repeating the ad hom in your latest post.”
the truth isn’t an ad hominen attack….
“Nice. Check/Mate. Thanks for proving that a reasonable discussion with you is impossible.”
you’ve proven that long ago with your idiotic drivel about me being some useful idiot for some soviet PLOT against the pope…paranoid much?
“It is SOOOOO clear, that no one believed in “faith alone” for the first 1500 years ”
no one except Jesus…
Luke 7:50 Jesus said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”
I’ll take HIS word for it…you take the pope‘s and we’ll see who wins in end.
“Ethiopian eunuch tells Philip that scripture is too hard to interpret without somone (in this case, an apostle) ”
so who taught Paul??
Galations 1:
11 I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
15 But when God, who set me apart from my mother’s womb and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, my immediate response was not to consult any human being. 17 I did not go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went into Arabia. Later I returned to Damascus
aren’t you amazed Jesus could speak to som
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:13pmPope Rush stated: “yeah I believe what the bible says in infallible…and thats clearly what it says..how hard is this?”
Great, now that you have proclaimed about the Bible and your papal doctrine of “clearly what it says”, I must ask about the following scriptures:
“John 6:52-54. If any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying: How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen, I say unto you: except you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.”
I have a hunch. You suddenly will not want to go by “clearly what it says” (That you must EAT his flesh and DRINK his blood), will you?
In fact, you will use pretzel-like logic to do anything in your power to get away from “clearly what it says”, even ignoring the facts surrounding the situation. These include Jesus giving the old “double Amen”, doubling down and changing the word for “eat” to even a stronger one meaning “gnaw on”, AND allowing many of his disciples to leave over a misunderstanding about what you would call a “symbol.” In fact, you will probably do so “infallibly.”
Your Jesus would cynically allow disciples to leave Him to the detriment of their souls over a simple misunderstanding. Mine would explain it to them if it were just a symbol (it is not), because He wants to save.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:14pm“Acts 8: 31 So-called “personal interpretation,” like sola fide, sola scriptura, and countless other Protestant doctrines were invented in the last 500 years as “traditions of men.” People of the early church did not sit around personally interpreting scripture. ”
yeah its rather clear you’ve abandoned the bible and are making it up as you go along….kind of like the mormons….
really no one can interpret scripture except the ‘select holy few’? wow…I always thought God could speak to whoever He wanted…your god is awfully limited isn’t he?
“A) There was none until late 4th century (compiled, canonized, and preserved by the One, True, Holy, and Apostolic Catholic ”
why has your ‘one true holy’ church committed SO many sins? hmmm?? how about them holy priests and their pedophilia? oh I know you’ll turn around and blame the protestants for more sex offenses….if you had any integrity you would have left a ‘holy’ church like that….oh and I bet the protestants haven‘t had anywhere near the number of pedophilia offenses your ’holy’ church has.
“Nope, far from relying on “personal interpretation,” the people of the early church relied almost solely on the pope (not you) and the magisterium”
yeah and again your ‘holy’ church as passing out INDULGENCES…totally unbiblical…but hey since whenever the pope speaks you add to scripture…just like the mormons and their book!!
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:21pm“And you do not have the intellect to know your own limitations to the point of declaring your word “infallible” regarding sola fide”
yeah I know reading what the bible says and believing it is TOO hard for you….LOL
I mean seriously…you don’t beleive what the bible PLAINLY says…you would rather take the word of some pope…but know this….its still your responsibility to rightly divide the Word of God…you can’t shrug it off onto someone else..
2 timothy 2:
15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
so really what makes the pope SO holy? hmmm?? since your priests have been shown to be sinful…and the pope was once a priest….and your bishops have covered up the sin…so how do you know this pope, or any pope, is stating the Word of God?
there is only one way…and that is compare what the pope, or anyone, says against the bible…which is the standard….but you take the word of a man over the Word of God.
“Yet you claim infallibility and more intelligence than the eunuch, who was an educated high level functionary of government.”
I don’t claim infallibility…thats your hang-up…I claim the bible is infallible….and yeah how hard is it to be more intelligent than bureacrat? LOL I mean really…..
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:28pm“What is the pillar and ground of truth? Is it your “personal interpretation” of the Bible? No, His word says, the Church. 1 Tim 3:15″
the mormons claim THEY ARE THE CHURCH…why aren’t they? hmmmm???? how do you know?
just because the pope tells you? so you can’t think for yourself obviously.
and what about mary? the ‘queen of heaven’??
Jeremiah 7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
the ‘queen of heaven’ is ashteroth a pagan deity….yet your church calls mary by the same name as that pagan deity….
“You ignored my reply regarding the prodigal son. I believe it is because you KNOW that you are wrong. ”
no I didn’t…you just ignored my response…no surprise….there is no set interpretation of that verse…he could have been saved….or not…..you have no proof he was saved…and lost his salvation…thats really a stretch.
“You ignored my reply regarding the prodigal son. I believe it is because you KNOW that you are wrong. ”
revelation talks about the stars falling to earth…do you think that will LITERALLY happen?? hmmm??
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:34pm(the last part of my response was towards this)
“I have a hunch. You suddenly will not want to go by “clearly what it says” (That you must EAT his flesh and DRINK his blood), will you?”
Revelation 6:13
and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind.
do you think the stars will fall to earth? LITERALLY? really? explain that verse…couldn’t be SYMBOLIC of something could it now???? hmmmmm???? again how hard is this?
oh sorry missed this…
“When he refers to a son/servant, He is speaking about us. When we are a “son” of God, we are “saved.“ If we are not a ”son,” we are not saved. Do you STILL claim that the Prodigal Son is NOT about sonship/salvation?”
Job 1: 6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and [b]Satan also came among them
so satan is a ‘son of God’
and how about these ‘sons of God’
Genesis 6:
1 Now it came about, when men began to multiply on the face of the land, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were [a]beautiful; and they took wives for themselves, whomever they chose
“Again, this is a simple concept that is universal throughout the entire Christian realm. Yet, you GOT EVEN THIS RIDICULOUSLY SIMPLE CONCEPT WRONG!!!! ”
yeah you did…it comes from not reading the entire bible….you should try it sometimes…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 12:37pm“!!!! Despite that, you have the nerve to claim infallibility on a topic (sola fide) that even the most brilliant Protestant theologians would admit is VERY complicated to the point that Protestant churches break away from each other over it?”
really…post your proof of that…put up or shut up.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:27pmPope Rush stated: “the truth isn’t an ad hominen attack….”
More proof that you do not know what “ad hominem” means, yet you claim to have the ability to infallibly interpret scripture.
Pope Rush stated: “you’ve proven that long ago with your idiotic drivel about me being some useful idiot for some soviet PLOT against the pope…paranoid much?”
The opening of former Soviet archives and interviews of Soviet agents by HISTORIANS have shown that the entire “Hitler’s Pope” garbage origniated with a Soviet funded play. Were the professional historians “paranoid?“ Got evidence to back up your assertion or just another ”infallible” opinion?
Pope Rush stated: “no one except Jesus…(believed in sola fide)”
Except that there are even major divisions WITHIN Protestantism regarding the doctrine, yet you claim to have the “one” that Jesus believes.
Pope Rush stated: “so who taught Paul??” Galations 1…
You tell me. Did he learn it from just reading the Bible? He kind of had a special revelation, right?
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:32pmPope Rush stated: “yeah its rather clear you’ve abandoned the bible and are making it up as you go along….kind of like the mormons….”
If I were you, I would abandon actually making an argument too.
Pope Rush stated: “really no one can interpret scripture except the ‘select holy few’? wow…”
If I were you, I would abandon making an actual argument and erect straw men too.
Pope Rush says: “I always thought God could speak to whoever He wanted…your god is awfully limited isn’t he?
Sayeth the man who believes that God can only speak to us through the Bible.
Pope Rush stated: “why has your ‘one true holy’ church committed SO many sins? hmmm??”
Because it is filled with sinful people. Christianity 101. Once again, what church do you go to for worship? Why do you avoid that question?
Pope Rush stated: “how about them holy priests and their pedophilia? oh I know you’ll turn around and blame the protestants for more sex offenses….if you had any integrity you would have left a ‘holy’ church like that….oh and I bet the protestants haven‘t had anywhere near the number of pedophilia offenses your ’holy’ church has. ”
I blame no one but those involved. However, it IS HYPOCRITICAL to continue to point it out when studies (John Jay Law School) have shown the problem is equal or worse in Protestant churches. Have you left YOUR church over the sins of its members? Again, what church is it? Afraid/embarrassed to tell?
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:33pmPope Rush stated: “yeah and again your ‘holy’ church as passing out INDULGENCES…totally unbiblical…but hey since whenever the pope speaks you add to scripture…just like the mormons and their book!!”
Your animosity to the pope is humorous considering you have claimed the same infallibility he has. In fact, you have claimed MORE infallibility that the Pope does.
Adding to scripture… Do you mean adding the word “alone” like the father of protestantism Martin Luther did?
As far as Mormons, I have met quite a few and they were unwaveringly more Christ-like than you have ever even shown a sign of being.
Pope Rush stated: yeah I know reading what the bible says and believing it is TOO hard for you….LOL”
I read and know what the Bible says. What I agree with is your faulty interpretation of it, despite your claims of infallibility.
Pope Rush stated: “I mean seriously…you don’t beleive what the bible PLAINLY says…you would rather take the word of some pope…but know this….its still your responsibility to rightly divide the Word of God…you can’t shrug it off onto someone else..”
I believe what the bible says. I do not believe your faulty, man-made, 500 year old interpretation of it. And, yes, it is my responsibility to read and interpret the Bible but to do so in an educated manner, taking into account the teachings of the only Church started by Christ Himself. I will take that over a church started by mere men 500 years ago.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:35pmPope Rush stated: “2 timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.”
You DO realize that Paul’s reference to “the word of truth” is speaking of his PREACHED word, since there is no Bible yet, correct? Perhaps not, since you dot even have a basic understanding of the Prodigal Son.
Pope Rush stated: “so really what makes the pope SO holy? hmmm?? since your priests have been shown to be sinful…and the pope was once a priest….and your bishops have covered up the sin…so how do you know this pope, or any pope, is stating the Word of God?”
Is your preacher not sinful? Just wondering. The ability to infallibly proclaim has nothing to do with being sinless. You are either stunningly ignorant of basic Catholic teaching or purposely missrepresenting it. The Pope can speak infallibly ex cathedra on the matters of faith and morals because Jesus gave him the power to do so. It is “clearly”, to use your word, in scripture.
Pope Rush stated: I don’t claim infallibility…thats your hang-up…I claim the bible is infallible….”
You claimed that your interpretation of sola fide is infallible, ignoring the fact that even Protestant churches have broken/split up over it. It is a very complex topic that you have claimed to KNOW to be truth. That IS claiming to be infallible.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:36pmPope Rush stated: “and yeah how hard is it to be more intelligent than bureacrat? LOL I mean really…..”
Do you really want to be the one to claim to cherish the Bible when you will turn around and ridicule/condescend to a very good model of character and faith in the very same book you claim to defend? I suppose THAT is what you meant by having the “faith of a demon” because no one with “true faith” would ever do such a thing.
Pope Rush stated: “the mormons claim THEY ARE THE CHURCH…why aren’t they? hmmmm???? how do you know?”
Because like all of the Protestant denominations, they were not around at the time of the apostles and were not started by an apostle. It was started by a man in the 1800s.
Pope Rush stated: “and what about mary? the ‘queen of heaven’??”
A sure sign of desperation is when you start throwing stuff against the wall hoping it will stick (kind of like the priest/pedophilia stuff). Let’s keep the topic to your claims of infallibility.
Pope Rush stated: “no I didn’t…you just ignored my response…no surprise….there is no set interpretation of that verse…he could have been saved….or not…..you have no proof he was saved…and lost his salvation…thats really a stretch.”
LOL Please show me ONE Protestant scholar that does NOT believe sonship=salvation. It is Bible 101.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:36pmPope Rush stated: “revelation talks about the stars falling to earth…do you think that will LITERALLY happen?? hmmm??”
Yes, it will happen in a literal fashion. It just will not happen in a literalist fashion. Know the difference?
And you did just what I thought you would. When you think it supports your theology, the Bible means “clearly what it says” and when it does not support your theology, things suddenly get more complicated.
Pope Rush stated: “so satan is a ‘son of God’ ”
Too funny. THIS is what I said emphasis added: “We both know (along with every Christian of every denomination I have ever been in contact with) that when the PARABLES OF JESUS refer to a father/master, He is speaking about God….”
So, you are claiming that the verses you cite in GENESIS and JOB are “parables of Jesus?” That is even worse than your absurd claim that the Prodigal Son is not speaking about salvation.
Pope Rush stated: “really…post your proof of that…put up or shut up.”
Post what? That sola fide is a varied and complex topic or that you have declared infallibility? I can post either.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:51pm“More proof that you do not know what “ad hominem” means, yet you claim to have the ability to infallibly interpret scripture.”
sure I do, all i have to do is read your posts…
“The opening of former Soviet archives and interviews of Soviet agents by HISTORIANS have shown that the entire “Hitler’s Pope” garbage origniated with a Soviet funded play”
oh yeah that jewish site I posted was all part of SOVIET PLOT…uh huh…take off your tin-foil and get back on your meds….laughable.
“Except that there are even major divisions WITHIN Protestantism regarding the doctrine, yet you claim to have the “one” that Jesus believes. ”
so you say…again post your proof, put up or shut up.
“You tell me. Did he learn it from just reading the Bible? He kind of had a special revelation, right?”
he sure didn’t listen to your first pope peter now did he? Paul clearly states Who it was that taught him the bible…and of course he was a pharisee…and knew the OT by heart…
Galations 2:
11 But when Cephas came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. 1
there’s your first pope Peter who STOOD CONDEMNED…so why should you believe a pope? hmmm???
“If I were you, I would abandon actually making an argument too. ”
why, when its obvious catholics add to the scripture…post your scriptural proof of INDULGENCES…you cannot.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 1:56pm“If I were you, I would abandon making an actual argument and erect straw men too. ”
uh newsflash gomer, thats exactly what you do…only the POPE can interpret scripture for the rest of po dumb schmucks…but your first pope Peter, STOOD CONDEMNED according to scripture…so do you think any other pope is better than Peter?? hmmm???? so if Peter was wrong, and he was your first pope, then why not any other pope??? hmmmm??
“Sayeth the man who believes that God can only speak to us through the Bible”
another lie about me….do you EVER tell the truth?
“I blame no one but those involved. However, it IS HYPOCRITICAL to continue to point it out when studies (John Jay Law School) have shown the problem is equal or worse in Protestant churches”
you are being disengenous (thats a nice of way of saying you’re lying) the problem with pedophilia isn’t nearly as bad in the protestant church…yours was on supposed sexual misconduct….not limited to pedophilia…you are comparing apples and oranges…which is all you can do since you have lost the argument…rather badly….
“Your animosity to the pope is humorous considering you have claimed the same infallibility he has. In fact, you have claimed MORE infallibility that the Pope does.”
yeah the bible IS more infallible than the pope….another nice lie of yours trying to claim I said I was infallible…post your proof, or apologize..but you won’t that would take integrity…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:04pm“Adding to scripture… Do you mean adding the word “alone” like the father of protestantism Martin Luther did? ”
really, where did Luther do that? oh and he was a CATHOLIC monk, so he couldn’t have been that good, right? another time to post your proof…I’ve noticed you have a hard time of that…you make accusations and cannot back them up.
“As far as Mormons, I have met quite a few and they were unwaveringly more Christ-like than you have ever even shown a sign of being.”
oh good, I‘m sure you think you’ll become your own god, with your spirit-wives and have lots of sex in the afterlife so you can have lots of kids too…no surprise you admire those who follow a different gospel and different Christ than the Bible….
“, taking into account the teachings of the only Church started by Christ Himself.”
this is laughable…Christ didn’t start the catholic church…post your quote of HIS that says He did…you cannot…the catholic church was started by MEN…Constantine…get a clue.
“Your animosity to the pope is humorous considering you have claimed the same infallibility he has. In fact, you have claimed MORE infallibility that the Pope does.”
post where I have claimed this infallibility…I claim the bible is infallible…..and I find it interesting about how often you have to lie about me to try to win an argument….your desperation is palpable…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:15pm“You DO realize that Paul’s reference to “the word of truth” is speaking of his PREACHED word, since there is no Bible yet, correct? Perhaps not, since you dot even have a basic understanding of the Prodigal Son.”
uh yeah there was a bible in Paul’s day..the OT…how hard is this? oh and I notice you haven’t posted anything proving your contention about the prodigal son….its very disputed whether he was saved or not…..and of course no comments about satan being a son of God…no surprise…..you sound like a good democrat, unable to answer any queries…only able to post talking points…
this for example makes the point the prodigal son was lost….
http://www.jba.gr/Articles/jbamarapr02b.htm
he also could have been saved, and just backsliden…
“Because like all of the Protestant denominations, they were not around at the time of the apostles and were not started by an apostle. It was started by a man in the 1800s. ”
and your church wasn’t either…it was started by constantine….oh and what religion was Jesus again?? oh yeah JEWISH…as was Peter, Paul, John, etc…never heard of them renouncing their jewishness, did you?
“Yes, it will happen in a literal fashion. It just will not happen in a literalist fashion. Know the difference?”
no why don’t you explain it to me…this should be good…..
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:20pm“And you did just what I thought you would. When you think it supports your theology, the Bible means “clearly what it says” and when it does not support your theology, things suddenly get more complicated.”
no, some things are SYMBOLIC…some are not…how hard is this? do you think Jesus LITERALLY said you have to eat His flesh and drink His blood? no obviously not..you think of some magical ‘transubstantiation’….uh huh….which isn’t talked about in the bible at all…
“Too funny. THIS is what I said emphasis added: “We both know (along with every Christian of every denomination I have ever been in contact with) that when the PARABLES OF JESUS refer to a father/master, He is speaking about God….””
uh don’t you think Jesus is behind the OT too? hmmmm??? Jesus is the same God of the OT and the NT….or do you think Jesus is a created being? hmmmm??? oh like the mormons you admire so much!!!
“We both know (along with every Christian of every denomination I have ever been in contact with) that when the parables of Jesus refer to a father/master, He is speaking about God. When he refers to a son/servant, He is speaking about us. When we are a “son” of God, we are “saved.“ If we are not a ”son,” we are not saved. Do you STILL claim that the Prodigal Son is NOT about sonship/salvation?”
uh nope, you haven’t posted any proof…and I‘ve posted proof you’re WRONG…as usual.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:24pmoh here tarl….just for you…
The Prodigal Son: Not Conducive with Catholic Doctrine
The following quote is taken from John Martignoni’s latest newsletter where he attempts to unite Jesus’ parable of the prodigal son with the Roman Catholic doctrine of salvation. The two have nothing in common so I thought I would provide a biblical and reasonable response.
http://one-fold.com/?p=159
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:26pm“Post what? That sola fide is a varied and complex topic or that you have declared infallibility? I can post either.”
notice how you change what you have to post….originally you said:
““!!!! Despite that, you have the nerve to claim infallibility on a topic (sola fide) that even the most brilliant Protestant theologians would admit is VERY complicated to the point that Protestant churches break away from each other over it?””
so which churches have broken up over it? now you don’t want to post that do you?
oh and yes go ahead and post where I do claim infallibility…this should be good
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 2:28pm“Rush stated (regarding if there was ANY chance his interpretation of faith alone theology could be wrong): “about salvation by grace alone through faith alone…no.”
In other words, you have claimed infallibility, like a Pope
”
you see this is where you start your lies about me….the doctrine of salvation by faith alone is infallible…because the bile says it…..I never claimed to be infallible…you twisted what I said…in other words you LIED about what I said…you do that quite often….lets see who else lie a lot in scripture….oh yeah…satan……
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:17pmPope Rush stated: “he sure didn’t listen to your first pope peter now did he? Paul clearly states Who it was that taught him the bible…and of course he was a pharisee…and knew the OT by heart…Galations 2:”
So? Peter, nor any Pope is impeccable. They make errors in almost every area of life. Please look up what infallibility means to the Catholic Church and then address it. You are obviously clueless.
Pope Rush stated: “why, when its obvious catholics add to the scripture…post your scriptural proof of INDULGENCES…you cannot.”
Yikes. I can’t even get you to understand the basic scriptural truths and you want a lesson in indulgences? You are like a baby throwing his own feces at the wall to see what will stick.
You stated: “uh newsflash gomer, thats exactly what you do…only the POPE can interpret scripture for the rest of po dumb schmucks…”
Of course I never said that, but hey, it is your fairy tale. Apparently arguing in logical fallacies is your only weapon.
Pope Rush stated: ”
you are being disengenous (thats a nice of way of saying you’re lying) the problem with pedophilia isn’t nearly as bad in the protestant church…yours was on supposed sexual misconduct….not limited to pedophilia…you are comparing apples and oranges…which is all you can do since you have lost the argument…rather badly….”
Great, I got out of you exactly what I wanted. Protestants are ONLY guilty of “supposed sexual misconduct?” Who is making
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:18pmPope Rush stated: “yeah the bible IS more infallible than the pope….another nice lie of yours trying to claim I said I was infallible…post your proof, or apologize..but you won’t that would take integrity…”
Another easy one. I asked: “3) Is there ANY chance that you are wrong?”
Pope Rush replied: “3) about salvation by grace alone through faith alone…no.”
That is a declaration of infallibility.
Pope Rush stated: really, where did Luther do that (add “alone” to the bible)? oh and he was a CATHOLIC monk, so he couldn’t have been that good, right? another time to post your proof…I’ve noticed you have a hard time of that…you make accusations and cannot back them up.”
Easy. In addition to adding “alone”, he also tried to throw James and Revelation out of the Bible, calling James an “Epistle of Straw” (Translation: It demolished his faith alone theology). Regarding “alone”: “Luther added the word ”alone” (allein in German) to Romans 3:28 controversially so that it read: “thus, we hold, then, that man is justified without the works of the law to do, alone through faith”[5] The word “alone” does not appear in the original Greek text…” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luther_Bible
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:19pmPope Rush stated: “oh good, I‘m sure you think you’ll become your own god, with your spirit-wives and have lots of sex in the afterlife so you can have lots of kids too…no surprise you admire those who follow a different gospel and different Christ than the Bible….”
Sure, because noting there very pious and Christ-like demeanor is the same as advocating spirit wives. Do you ever make ANY statements that are not some form of logical fallacy?
Pope Rush stated: “this is laughable…Christ didn’t start the catholic church…post your quote of HIS that says He did…you cannot…the catholic church was started by MEN…Constantine…get a clue.”
Of course He did. Current prisest, bishops trace their ordination back to an apostle, not Constantine. From Ignatius of Antioch, a student of John around 110 AD: “Wherever the bishop appears, there let the people be; as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful to baptize or give communion without the consent of the bishop. On the other hand, whatever has his approval is pleasing to God. Thus, whatever is done will be safe and valid.” — Letter to the Smyrnaeans 8, J.R. Willis translation.
Pope Rush stated: “post where I have claimed this infallibility…I claim the bible is infallible…..and I find it interesting about how often you have to lie about me to try to win an argument….your desperation is palpable…”
Already did. See above post.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:19pmPope Rush stated: “uh yeah there was a bible in Paul’s day..the OT…how hard is this?”
We are talking NT. 2 Timothy is a pastoral letter and he is instructing him in Christian teachings, which would be preached as there is no NT scripture. How hard is this?
Pope Rush stated: “oh and I notice you haven’t posted anything proving your contention about the prodigal son….its very disputed whether he was saved or not…..”
Strawman. The issue is whether father=God and son=us in the parables of Jesus. Your “evidence” does not address this question.
Pope Rush stated: “…..and of course no comments about satan being a son of God…”
Already addressed. Your quotes were OT quotes that were not Jesus parables. You know what a parable is correct? You know who Jesus is, correct?
Pope Rush stated: “and your church wasn’t either…it was started by constantine….oh and what religion was Jesus again?? oh yeah JEWISH…as was Peter, Paul, John, etc…never heard of them renouncing their jewishness, did you?”
Then are you Jewish?
Pope Rush stated: “no, some things are SYMBOLIC…some are not…”
Translation: When they disagree with Pope Rush’s theology, they are symbolic. When they agree, they are “clearly” written.
Pope Rush stated: “do you think Jesus LITERALLY said you have to eat His flesh and drink His blood? ”
His disciples did and they left Him because of it. And Jesus did not chase after and say “I am speaking SYMBOLICALLY!
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:20pmPope Rush stated: “uh don’t you think Jesus is behind the OT too? hmmmm??? Jesus is the same God of the OT and the NT….or do you think Jesus is a created being? hmmmm??? oh like the mormons you admire so much!!! ”
Of course He is in the OT too. But, he was NOT telling parables in it, especially where you cited.
Pope Rush stated: “oh here tarl….just for you…
“The Prodigal Son: Not Conducive with Catholic Doctrine”
This just in. A website that disagrees with the True Church’s theology says the True Church is wrong. How original.
Pope Rush stated: “so which churches have broken up over it? now you don’t want to post that do you? oh and yes go ahead and post where I do claim infallibility…this should be good”
See my above posts (from a Protestant source) and the exact quote of you saying there is NO CHANCE your interpretation could be wrong.
Report Post »TarletonsQuarter
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:22pmPope Rush,
You have systematically bore false witness and demeaned Catholicism, Mormonism, and even biblical figures like the Ethiopian eunuch, who you condescended to and demeaned.
Meanwhile, you have completely refused to share the church you attend. Why is that? Hmmmm?
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 4:48pm“did you notice THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD…not this is YOUR work….” -Read it again, “that YOU believe in Him whom He sent.” It’s as I have stated before, this is a work of God that He gave for us to do, not that He does it for us.
“not according to Romans…” -Again this is taken out of context. Who is Paul speaking to? Jews. So when the word “works” comes up mainly in the passage you gave here Paul is addressing works of the Law of Moses which had been nailed to the cross.
“so according to you, you have to do this for salvation” -Christ said in Mark 16:16 that whoever believes AND is baptized shall be what? SAVED. So I would rather take the word of Christ over any man and do as He commanded to to do. Baptism being a requirement to be saved. Even in Acts 2:38 when Peter was talking to the multitude they asked “What shall we do?” and He told them to be baptized FOR the remission of sins indicating that an action is required on their part.
“He is the One who draws us, who saves us, who holds us, and will eventually deliver us” -And how does He draw us? By His word (Rom. 10:17) How did He save us? By sending us His son (John 3:16 notice that “whosoever believes on Him” indicating an action required on the person’s part. Nothing mentioned that God believes for us nor will you find a verse anywhere in the Bible in context that states such). As long as we stay faithful to Him He will keep us, but that does not mean we don’t have the free will to deny Hi
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 5:30pm“So? Peter, nor any Pope is impeccable. They make errors in almost every area of life. Please look up what infallibility means to the Catholic Church and then address it”
infallibility doesn’t exist among anyone…get a clue.
“Yikes. I can’t even get you to understand the basic scriptural truths and you want a lesson in indulgences? You are like a baby throwing his own feces at the wall to see what will stick.”
more ad hominen from the most holy tarl…no surprise…and no surprise you duck the question..LOL cause there is no scriptural basis for that practice…yet your popes claiming their infallability sanctioned indulgences….
“only the POPE can interpret scripture for the rest of po dumb schmucks…Of course I never said that, but hey, it is your fairy tale. Apparently arguing in logical fallacies is your only weapon.”
over and over you have..so what does this mean?? …..
.”In other words, you have claimed infallibility, like a Pope, regarding your interpretation of scripture.”
“Great, I got out of you exactly what I wanted. Protestants are ONLY guilty of “supposed sexual misconduct?” Who is making”
oops looks like I caught you in another lie didn’t I? you posted a lie to divert blame from the catholic PEDOPHILE scandal to unclassified sexual misconduct from protestants….bet ya most of that ‘misconduct’ was between ADULTS…unlike those ‘holy’ priests you excuse with your shameful tactics
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 5:44pm“Another easy one. I asked: “3) Is there ANY chance that you are wrong?”
Pope Rush replied: “3) about salvation by grace alone through faith alone…no.”
That is a declaration of infallibility.
”
yeah its a declaration that JESUS is infallible…but you obviously don’t believe Him…you’ve been caught in another lie….you should repent…and if you had any integrity you’d apologize…but you don’t have any, obviously.
“Sure, because noting there very pious and Christ-like demeanor is the same as advocating spirit wives. Do you ever make ANY statements that are not some form of logical fallacy?”
I know this is hard for you to understand…but its all part and parcel of mormonism..I see you understand mormonism about as well as you understand christianity…ie not at all…
“Of course He did. Current prisest, bishops trace their ordination back to an apostle, not Constantine”
of course they do…and its BS…just like indulgences….the catholic church didn’t exist during the time of ignatius…..‘catholic’ also refers to universal…your church didn’t start until constantine established it…the ROMAN catholic church…..
“Already did. See above post.”
obviously you didn’t…salvation by faith is infallible because its in the bible….continue with your lies about me, its really all you have…
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 5:54pm“We are talking NT. 2 Timothy is a pastoral letter and he is instructing him in Christian teachings, which would be preached as there is no NT scripture. How hard is this?”
no YOU are talking NT…I think the OT is as much scripture as the NT..
“Strawman. The issue is whether father=God and son=us in the parables of Jesus. Your “evidence” does not address this question.”
in other words you didn’t read the link…no surprise…here this is from that link..
The premise of the Catholic doctrine of salvation is that one can humbly come to Christ, become a child of God through repentance – Just like the son returned to his father – then with one mistake, be kicked out of God’s house until he or she repents. This process can repeat over and over again throughout a Catholic’s life and it is entirely unbiblical.
so in other words there is controversy about what that means…and you were wrong…again…
“nd of course no comments about satan being a son of God…”
Already addressed. Your quotes were OT quotes that were not Jesus parables. You know what a parable is correct? You know who Jesus is, correct?
”
oh yeah your ‘addressing’ it was to dismiss it…but you can’t dismiss the OT..its as much scripture as the NT…and just as inspired….the Holy Spirit is behind both testaments….you’re trying to tell me Jesus changed His mind….really.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 6:00pm“Already addressed. Your quotes were OT quotes that were not Jesus parables. You know what a parable is correct? You know who Jesus is, correct?”
we were talking about the whole notion of a son of God….this is what you said…
When he refers to a son/servant, He is speaking about us. When we are a “son” of God, we are “saved.“ If we are not a ”son,” we are not saved. Do you STILL claim that the Prodigal Son is NOT about sonship/salvation?”
so satan being referred to as a ‘son of God’ is VERY relevent…you try to twist the scripture to meet your doctrine…..when its clear that ‘son of God’ does NOT necessarily mean you are saved…in other words you lost another argument…and are desperately trying to divert the issue…its what you do constantly…
“Then are you Jewish? ”
yep,…
Galations 2:
15 “We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; 16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of [n]the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of [o]the Law; since by the works of [p]the Law no [q]flesh will be justified.
oops thats another verse of salvation apart from works…I‘m sure you’ll ignore it!!!
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 6:06pm“Translation: When they disagree with Pope Rush’s theology, they are symbolic. When they agree, they are “clearly” written.”
translation…you have no answer so you have to cover yourself….I notice you didn’t explain the difference between literal and literalism…no surprise….its rather obvious whats symbolic and not in the bible…and you don’t need the pope to explain it to you.
“His disciples did and they left Him because of it. And Jesus did not chase after and say “I am speaking SYMBOLICALLY!”
yeah those are the ones who took Him literally…and you don’t take Him literally either…else you would be LITERALLY engaging in cannibalism.
“Of course He is in the OT too. But, he was NOT telling parables in it, especially where you cited.”
so what? you were talking about what a ‘son of God’ meant…and satan is a ‘son of God’ so it blows your argument away…thats why you have to try to divert with this LIE that we were talking about parables…
“This just in. A website that disagrees with the True Church’s theology says the True Church is wrong. How original.”
uh newflash..it disagrees with the catholic interpretation of the prodigal son as being saved, and losing his salvation….no surprise you can’t deal with that…so your earlier assertion:
“Uh, it is fundamental concept in ALL of Christianity that father=God, Son=Man, and sonship=salvation in the parables of Jesus. God is the father and WE are the prodigal sons.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 6:11pm““Uh, it is fundamental concept in ALL of Christianity that father=God, Son=Man, and sonship=salvation in the parables of Jesus. God is the father and WE are the prodigal sons.”
is false since I posted a web site that disagrees with your assertion…and the statment in Job that satan is a ‘son of God’ proves you wrong.
“You have systematically bore false witness and demeaned Catholicism, Mormonism, and even biblical figures like the Ethiopian eunuch, who you condescended to and demeaned. ”
you sir are liar…point out where I have been wrong about catholics or mormons….I wasn’t demeaning the Ethiopian eunuch….just your idiotic assertioin that because he worked in the government he was smart….another lie on your part…..you are good at lying….you have lots of practice….
“Pope Rush stated: “so which churches have broken up over it? now you don’t want to post that do you? oh and yes go ahead and post where I do claim infallibility…this should be good”
See my above posts (from a Protestant source) and the exact quote of you saying there is NO CHANCE your interpretation could be wrong.
”
you posted no evidence of any protestant church breaking up over it…what was your protestant souce?? do you think wikipedia is a protestant source? yeah there is no chance my interpretation can be wrong…because thats what the bible says…plain and simple english…which you seem to have a great deal of problems with.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 6:25pm““did you notice THIS IS THE WORK OF GOD…not this is YOUR work….” -Read it again, “that YOU believe in Him whom He sent.” It’s as I have stated before, this is a work of God that He gave for us to do, not that He does it for us.”
yeah you beleive and its GOD’s work…again simple english.
“ws. So when the word “works” comes up mainly in the passage you gave here Paul is addressing works of the Law of Moses which had been nailed to the cross.”
oh so you think your works are SO much better than theirs…in other words you’re a christian pharisee…ok. so you’re telling the Law was not good and holy, and the Will of God? whats the difference between doing something under the law, and under grace? oh and you do know grace means ‘unmerrited favor’ in other words favor based upon nothing you do.
“Christ said in Mark 16:16 that whoever believes AND is baptized shall be what? SAVED”
ok, so you’re saying Christ lied to the thief on the cross…and lady whom He told her faith had saved her…
“He told them to be baptized FOR the remission of sins indicating that an action is required on their part.”
if baptism is SO important then why did the pre-eminent apostle Paul, say this??
1 Corinthians
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in [l]cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void.
so why did Jesus not send Paul to baptize, since its SO important? hmmm??
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 12, 2012 at 6:34pm“But why should I repent? Isn’t that a work? Won’t God repent for me? After all, if belief is something we can’t do, rather God does for us then repentance is something He does for us as well. Also, what happens if I don’t repent?”
uh no, repentance is not a work..sorry…its rather obvious you don’t think what Jesus did is good enough for your salvation…and you have to add your own works to it.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 2:47pmSorry, apparently one of my posts from yesterday didn’t make it or was removed. So here’s the rest of that discussion:
(Cont’d) -Him.
“Isaiah 64”
Again taken out of context. Who exactly is being talked about in this verse? Is it all of mankind? or is it the children of Israel? What’s the situation?
“so if belief is a work, then you can boast….and if its a work, then salvation is not a gift.”
I can’t see how I can make it any clearer. Belief is a work, not a work that us as humans decided we needed, it is a work, rather a command given by God. If Belief is a command given by God then how can it be a boastful work?
“that you think you need to do works for salvation is the sin of pride, the original sin….you should repent”
But why should I repent? Isn’t that a work? Won’t God repent for me? After all, if belief is something we can’t do, rather God does for us then repentance is something He does for us as well. Also, what happens if I don’t repent?
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 3:31pm“yeah you beleive and its GOD’s work…again simple english.”
Belief IS a work from God no doubt about that, but make no mistake, nowhere will you find that He picks or makes a person to believe. In fact we see from scripture belief is commanded by God (His works) for mankind to do.
Heb. 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Acts 17:so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us… 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent. -So you see then that the Lord commands all men to repent. Why would scripture tell us this if we have no part in our salvation, whether we can accept it or deny it?
“oh so you think your works are SO much better than theirs”
I never EVER stated such a thing or even implied that.
“so you’re telling the Law was not good and holy, and the Will of God?”
Never said that either. I’m not a Jew and the Law of Moses was given ONLY to the children of Israel. (Deut. 5:1-3) It was never given to the Gentile nation. Does that mean the Old Testament is nothing? No certainly not. We are told that what was written before was written for our learning. (Rom. 15:4)
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 3:35pm“whats the difference between doing something under the law, and under grace?”
Because the works of the Law (ie the blood and sacrifice of bulls and goats) could not save (Heb 10:14, Heb 9:12-14).
“ok, so you’re saying Christ lied to the thief on the cross…and lady whom He told her faith had saved her”
Nope. For starters no one can say if the thief was or was not baptized because remember John the baptist baptized people before Jesus started His ministry and the thief very well could have been among those people. But that is something neither side can say definitively. Second of all Jesus said that while He was on earth He had power to forgive sins (Luke 5:24) and third Jesus had not yet died, meaning the Old Testament laws were still in place so the thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses. I would say the same would somewhat apply to the lady too.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 3:41pm“if baptism is SO important then why did the pre-eminent apostle Paul, say this??”
Ok, but if you would read the entire passage you would understand Paul is talking about divisions and people placing who does the baptizing as more important: 11 For it has been declared to me concerning you, my brethren, by those of Chloe’s household, that there are contentions among you. 12 Now I say this, that each of you says, “I am of Paul,” or “I am of Apollos,” or “I am of Cephas,” or “I am of Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 >>lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name.<<- Verse 15 clarifies exactly the reason why Paul didn't baptize them.
"Jesus did is good enough for your salvation…and you have to add your own works to it."
Ok, but answer me this, if we are saved simply because Jesus did everything for us then what is the purpose of repenting?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 6:16pm“Belief IS a work from God no doubt about that, ”
interesting that you have no verse to back this up…you seem to ignore scripture though…here’s another one..
Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.”
so is salvation by grace or works? and of course grace is unmerited favor…
your next few verses don’t prove that fatih is a work, sorry..
“Why would scripture tell us this if we have no part in our salvation”
I never said we don’t have a part in our salvation…just that salvation is by faith and grace…not by works….so you have a problem you have never answered….
A.(Ephesians 2:8-9) – “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast.”
if faith is a work, how can salvation be a gift? please answer this…you keep avoiding it.
“I never EVER stated such a thing or even implied that.”
you seem to say that the works the jews did under the law were somehow inferior to the works under grace…I mean do you think Abraham, Moses, David, etc were inferior to us? seriously?
“I’m not a Jew and the Law of Moses was given ONLY to the children of Israel.”
this isn’t the issue…you seem to say that their works under the law were inferior to ours…and I’m really wondering why you would thi
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 6:24pm“Because the works of the Law (ie the blood and sacrifice of bulls and goats) could not save (Heb 10:14, Heb 9:12-14).”
so what? do you really think Abraham wasn’t saved? do you think the works he did are somehow inferior to our works? this really has nothing to do with why you think oh say Moses’ works were somehow lesser than ours….other than anti-semitism, it makes no sense to me. David was a man after God’s own heart…no one in the NT was described like that.
“Nope. For starters no one can say if the thief was or was not baptized because remember John the baptist baptized people before Jesus started His ministry and the thief very well could have been among those people”
uh huh you’re really reaching..so you’ve added baptism as necessary to salvation just like the mormons do…that should trouble you greatly…..
“Second of all Jesus said that while He was on earth He had power to forgive sins”
yeah so can we…
John 20:23
“If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained.”
so?
“meaning the Old Testament laws were still in place so the thief on the cross died under the Law of Moses”
uh so that means they couldn’t have been saved without doing lots of works, right? since the law was the law…a works-based regime…you’re logic is working against you…oh and how was abraham saved?? oh yeah he believed God..that was it…no works.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 13, 2012 at 6:28pm“Ok, but if you would read the entire passage you would understand Paul is talking about divisions and people placing who does the baptizing as more important: ”
uh this is just a diversion…if baptism was SO important surely Jesus would have sent Paul to Baptize…oh and Jesus didn’t baptize…
John 4:2
although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.
but He was our example…if it was so important then why didn’t He baptize, and why didn’t He send paul to baptize? surely if it was necessary for salvation paul would have mentioned it in all those verses I posted…and surely He would have told the woman to go get baptized…do you think He just forgot?
“Ok, but answer me this, if we are saved simply because Jesus did everything for us then what is the purpose of repenting?”
uh I never we said we don’t have to have faith and believe…but faith and belief are not works….and you have one verse that really doesn’t show that faith is a work…and you are unable to reconcile the fact that salvation is a gift, and works have nothing to do with it…you just ignore that.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:31am“interesting that you have no verse to back this up”
I had 3 which I posted. Heb. 11:6, Acts 17:27, Acts 17:30 Go back and look.
“so is salvation by grace or works? and of course grace is unmerited favor…”
It’s by both. God gave His part and we do ours. Like Noah, God gave him the specific instructions on how to build the ark on which him and his family and the animals could be saved. Noah obeyed the command and did as he was told in order to be saved from the flood. What would’ve happened if Noah did other than God told him? And again Romans 11 is taken out of context. It is written to the Jews to let them know they are no longer under the Law of Moses but they and the Gentiles both are now all under the law of Grace. Read the first verse, in fact read the whole chapter.
“your next few verses don’t prove that fatih is a work, sorry..”
Is faith something you do or something God does? Please answer me this.
“if faith is a work, how can salvation be a gift?”
I haven’t avoided this question, in fact I gave you an answer. But I can give it again. If someone gives you a gift it is on your part whether to accept it or deny it. Right? You can either extend your arms and accept the gift (you receiving that gift is conditional upon you accepting it) or you can fold your arms and say “No.” Just because it is a free gift does not mean it is forced upon anyone. It has to be conditional on at least the person wanting it.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:35am“you seem to say that the works the jews did under the law were somehow inferior to the works under grace”
Where have I even implied such a thing? I’m simply going by what the Bible teaches that neither you or I are under the Law of Moses because we are not of the Jewish nation, even if we were physically, there is no way of knowing that since all the records were destroyed in AD 70 with the destruction of Jerusalem.
“do you really think Abraham wasn’t saved?”
I never implied that either. The blood of Christ not only covered sins forward from the cross but also all past sins of the Old Testament. Hebrews 9:15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
“yeah so can we John 20:23″
Again taken way out of context. Jesus here is giving power to His disciples to do these things. Should we forgive people of their sins? Yes. We are told to forgive. Does that mean we have the power to save or condemn? Nope.
“oh yeah he believed God..that was it…no works.”
That was it? So Abraham didn’t almost kill his son for an offering to the Lord? James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? (and verse 23 and 24 not enough room for th
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:42am“you’re really reaching so you’ve added baptism as necessary to salvation just like the mormons do”
As I stated, NEITHER side can say for certain that the thief was or was not baptized. So to say he wasn’t is an assumption neither you nor I can make. *I* didn’t add baptism to be necessary to be saved. God’s word tells us it is: Mark 16:16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now SAVES us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ Acts 22:16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. -Mormons teach they can baptize for dead people which isn’t in the Bible. Just cause a denomination has a similarity with some teachings of the Bible doesn’t mean they h
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 2:45am(cont’d) hit the mark.
“if baptism was SO important surely Jesus would have sent Paul to Baptize…oh and Jesus didn’t baptize”
It doesn’t make it any less important or invalid. Let me ask you is it who does the baptizing that is important or the one being immersed?
“but He was our example”
Funny you should mention that, was He not also baptized? Shouldn’t baptism be required on our parts?
“I never we said we don’t have to have faith and believe…but faith and belief are not works….. and you are unable to reconcile the fact that salvation is a gift, and works have nothing to do with it”
See this is where I see inconsistency with your beliefs. Are we saved by believing? Then that is a work that you do. YOU believe and have faith therefore it is a work. If salvation is this free (forced upon) gift then belief and faith are not required upon the receiver and God believes for them thus taking salvation completely out of the person’s hands whether they want to be saved or not. Thus by you telling me I need to repent would be of no effect cause God would just do it for me. So you have still yet to answer me, what happens if I don’t repent?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:01pm“It’s by both. God gave His part and we do ours. Like Noah, God gave him the specific instructions on how to build the ark on which him and his family and the ”
not according to bible.
Ephesians 2:
. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast
“And again Romans 11 is taken out of context. It is written to the Jews to let them know they are no longer under the Law of Moses but they and the Gentiles both are now all under the law of Grace. Read the first verse, in fact read the whole chapter.”
you’re the one taking it out of context and applying it only to the jews…who was the book written to? oh yeah the ROMANS…gentiles.
“Is faith something you do or something God does? Please answer me this.”
we have faith, but faith is not a work.
John 6:
65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
you really want to make it all about YOU don’t you? you can’t even come to the Father, unless HE enables you to. you really want to tell me about your wonderful works?? hmmm???
“If someone gives you a gift it is on your part whether to accept it or deny it. Right? ”
accepting a gift isn’t a work. and you can’t show any bible verses where your faith is a work.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:09pm“Where have I even implied such a thing?”
uh by your dismissal of the works done under the law.
“I’m simply going by what the Bible teaches that neither you or I are under the Law of Moses because we are not of the Jewish nation”
Paul wrote those things about the law as instruction to the gentiles…and you can easily take it to mean any works you do…whether you’re a jew or not…I mean you are seriously taking it out of context by limiting what Paul said to the jews.
“Again taken way out of context. Jesus here is giving power to His disciples to do these things. Should we forgive people of their sins? Yes. We are told to forgive. Does that mean we have the power to save or condemn? Nope.”
uh its not taken out of context, do you think Jesus meant just to those disciples living when He said that? or to all His disciples throughout time? please. If Jesus meant what you want it to mean, He could have said, only you John, Peter, etc can forgive sins…but He didn’t.
“That was it? So Abraham didn’t almost kill his son for an offering to the Lord? ”
yeah that was it….
Genesis 15:6 And Abram believed the LORD, and the LORD counted him as righteous because of his faith.
Romans 4: 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”[a]
so offering his son had NOTHING to do with it.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 12:29pm“See this is where I see inconsistency with your beliefs. Are we saved by believing? Then that is a work that you do. ”
no its not a work according to scipture…you just have to insert yourself into your salvation, you can’t just accept what the bible says about it being a gift…you don’t work for a gift.
“thus taking salvation completely out of the person’s hands whether they want to be saved or not.”
its totally out of your hands…God is the one who draws us (john 6:65) and learn the lesson of Jacob and Esau…
Romans 9
11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”[f]
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
it depends on God’s mercy….get a clue.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:27pmOk so now I know where you’re coming from. Salvation is forced upon us with no decision on our part. We can’t say no even if we wanted to. Doesn’t sound like a Just God does it? So even if you told me to repent, according to your belief I shouldn’t even have to because God will take care of that for me. He will do the believing, the repenting, confessing, and baptizing all for me whether I want to or not. Why even have the Bible if God imparts on a person salvation through no free will of accepting or denying His salvation? In fact how do you know if you’re even really saved? We know this that just because a person believes does in no way mean they are saved. Jesus even stated that those who say “Lord Lord have we not done XY and Z in YOUR name?” will not enter the kingdom. These are people who believe! So if God has already elected who He will and will not save then no amount of preaching and teaching will influence who is and isn’t saved.
“its totally out of your hands… God is the one who draws us”
And how exactly does He draw us? By imposing upon us salvation OR by what the Bible tells us, it’s through His inspired Word people are drawn to Him? Rom. 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent?… 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Report Post »scarebear83
Posted on January 16, 2012 at 6:47pmHeb. 7:19 for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.
Heb. 10:22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
James 4:8 Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
I think you completely misunderstand, we cannot be saved through human merit (saying twenty hail mary’s and donating clothes, time to soup kitchens etc.) Salvation is from God, we agree at least on that much. But why is it hard to accept that God gives us salvation but it is dependent upon us obeying His will? He gives us salvation but we have the free will to accept it and OBEY Him or deny it by disobeying Him. Answer me this, why would the Bible teach that God wants all men everywhere to repent if such a request is impossible to do? Why would Joshua ask in Joshua 24:15 to choose who they should serve?
I should also note, the verse you gave me of John 6:44, look no further to the next verse: 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. It is through God’s Word that we come to Him.
Report Post »Jezreel
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:39amAll sins are outside the body but fornication and sexual sins are a sin AGAINST the body. When a person joins the body to another body in sex, they become not only a union in the flesh but they also pick up the spirits of that person. That is why that women who have unfaithful husbands who sleep with other women start having emmotinal problems is because the husband is passing off spirits to the wife. Young women who are immoral and young men who are immoral, get oppressed and depressed. That is also why homsexuals and lesbians take on a countenace that is very odd and very twisted. If you look at their faces after they have been involved in that sin for many years, even the voice changes and their faces look very wierd.
Report Post »I would not believe what Joel Osteen preaches. The true gospel is not a feel good message. Jesus said, “they who have suffered in the flesh have ceased from sin”. Dying and partaking in the sufferings of Christ enable a person to be admitted into the kingdom. Many are called, few are chosen.
sashasnoop
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:06amSo fornication is worse than other sins? that‘s why when they wanted to stone the adulterous woman Jesus said ’let he that is without sin cast the first stone’. And what’s all that crap about transferring spirits?? where is it written in the bible?
Report Post »Jezreel
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:46amThe apostle Paul said, “shall we take the members of the body of Christ and join them to a harlot? God forbid for the word says, the two shall become one flesh. “
Report Post »Stu D. Baker-Hawk
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:49pmJezreel, you need to re-visit the Holy Bible. The stuff you’re spouting is false and sounds made up… BY YOU!
Report Post »Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:36amI have heard Osteen before and made a choice never to listen to him again. The media latches onto him because of his typical look-good, feel-good “religion”… something so many “Christians” love to follow in America. Like the article says, he focuses on “focuses in on life’s pleasantries”. His is a money making religion. I would love to see him take his BS “smile” theology to the starving people around the world.
Report Post »sashasnoop
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:08amIf you don’t like him, don’t listen to him, stop judging people.
Report Post »Annette
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:52amI’m reading a lot “UN” Christianly thinking and we wonder why people are turned off by religion and attending church..who would want to hang around a bunch of holier than thous that act as if they know everything and that their sins count less than someone else’s because you have decided it is so to justify your sins..let me tell ya Jesus would not approve. Christianity is love. Money and managing money is in the Bible.
Joel Osteen does a lot for the poor and needy along with his congregation. I live in Houston..I don’t attend his church because I prefer a smaller one.
The same people that bash Joel Osteen for making money would slam a commuist activist who says the exact things you have said against capitalism..only wait a man of the cloth cannot make money. So now even we on the Blaze are picking who can make money….we’re in freaking trouble.
Report Post »His_Way
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:49pm@Anette
Report Post »I think you are misunderstanding that some here speak of their distrust of this teacher possibly because he appears not acknowledge the entire word of God and as a teacher he is held to a higher standard. James 3:1. I do not beleive that to be “UN” Christianly thinking” For whoever shall keep the whole law of God yet stumble in one point, is guilty of all James 2:10.
You must know Christianity and truth does’t always fit in nicely with the politically correct, feel good now, rich and famous crowd, thank goodness.
PATTY HENRY
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:34amJOEL and VICTORIA OSTEEN are the real deal. They walk their talk. HE has encouraged more people, helped more people get on track, saved more people than probably anyone alive today. In a world with nothing bur negatives, Osteen points out GOD’S message (straight from the Bible) and this causes people to realize that 1) God Loves Us (John 3:16) even enough to send His only Son to die for our sins – they could not go un accounted for 2) There is Hope if we focus on GOD/GOD’S TEACHINGS.
Report Post »Osteen does not talk about whether God hates dancing…he talks about basics…which most of us know are true, but forget or get muddled by the pace/intensity of life. OSTEEN puts life into focus for Millions and Millions of people. Gay is not the natural state of being (no procreation of species) but why it exists is beyond most of us and we don’t doubt that it does and we leave the “right and wrong” of it up to God’s Judgement. Do I think it’s a sin? Yes. But should I condemn Gays? No. That’s beyond my comprehension. Do I like the fact that Gays are trying to force their life-style on my kids to justify theirs? NO! but would I want to be Gay? NO! I want Gays to have the same rights as Straight people (inheritance, visitation etc) but they already can do that via legal contracts which would probably be better than marriage for them anyway. What Oprah doesn‘t get is that she can’t force people to think like she does. Osteen is a great soul. He loves all
Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:42amI especially love his materialistic view… I wonder how he would fair if he was broke, having to find a job, or worse yet, living in a third world country fighting every day to survive. He is not the real deal. He is a religious charlatan making money hand over fist off American look good, feel good religion… not Christianity.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:42amUgh – The modern version of Jim and Tammy Faye.
Doesn’t it concern you that when you listen to his speeches, he never really talks about religion? He talks about morals; which is fine, but don‘t con people into believing you’re a man of the cloth.
This dude is good, no doubt, but he’s a con artist.
Report Post »gmoneytx
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:50am@Hoax and chains, put away the whip, the stinging will go away as soon as you stop beating yourself.
Report Post »Arminianism
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:57amI agree 100% Patty! I would argue that Joel Osteen has led more people to Christ than anyone since Billy Graham. I had a grandpa that came to Christ within a year before he died from finding Joel late night on TV. Its amazing how many Osteen haters there are out there. Their argument is that he doesn’t preach enough about hell or things like that. FINE, get that from your local pastor but I’ve never heard Joel say anything against what scripture says. These people need to examine their own hearts before they are so quick to criticize Mr Osteen. Joel doesn’t even take a salary from his church, he makes all his income from his books but they are many who want to vilianize him for making as much money as he does. GET OVER IT PEOPLE!! I guarantee he does more good with his money than you do!! Joel Osteen is a good man with a good heart…..
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:17amGod tells us who cannot enter the kingdom of heaven…if we abide in His love..then we keep his commands..We should not legislate morality..God is the judge..if we have our Constitutional rights..no true servant of God would ever marry a gay couple and they ..under the Constitution would never be forced to. Ther are plenty of false prophets to do that.
Report Post »dlmarsh
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:27amActually Joel Osteen and his church are about making money. I have personal experience with their “501c3 Church” through a close personal friend back in 2003. My friend was in Alabama back when the 10 commandments memorial fight was going on via the Alabama Supreme court. My friend had written on his blog about how he used to go to Lakeland Church when he was a kid growing up in Texas. Within a few days later my friend received a letter from the lawyers for the Osteens “Church” saying to cease and desist using the Osteens name or the churches name because it was protected and trademarked. All my friend did was exercise his right to free speech and say he use to go to their church when growing up in Texas. And their church was more interested in the money making of their name. If anyone wants proof you can probably find it archived on the internet. Just search the name of Gene Chapman, he was my friend that received the letter.
Report Post »Arminianism
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:43amWell if your friend said it, it must be true. How dare they ask for money. No church should do that. I bet they sell holy water and blessed pennies and say if you buy them you will become rich right? Yeah, they don’t do anything like that.
Report Post »ashestoashes
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:00pm@DLMARSH I certainly wouldn’t need proof..Joel is a favorite of many of my friends because his message is almost entirely about how to think to get money.. My friends love Joel .He’s kind of like the Tony Robbins of preaching. He‘s the best smiler and the happiest guy I’ve ever seen..Will his name be on a cereal box in heaven? Who knows?
Report Post »His_Way
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:04pmSome of us can see that Joel’s teachings are disappointingly a little off from the whole Word of God, unfortunately other’s cannot see that… that’s all.
My brethren let not many of you become teachers, knowing that we shall receive a stricter judgement, James 3:1.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:32amhe’s right…we’re all sinful…the only thing I would wonder about is if the person doesn’t think homosexuality is sinful….
but the Lord is merciful…thankfully…
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:32amAnd Joel knows this, How ?
Report Post »RRFlyer
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:41amthere is this book called The Bible
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:22am@RRFLYER and in that Bible God calls homosexuality an abomination.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:32amI never understood how same-sex relationships are considered evil or immoral. Everyone contacts STD’s, has bad relationships, etc. Yes, I have friends who are gay and they’re just as good people as I am. As a believer in God I feel that God never attended same-sex relationships to be sinful.
Report Post »Hoax And Chains
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:39amUnfortunately, all we have, from a Christian standpoint, is the Bible, and it mentions homosexuality as a sin. But… ALL have sinned and fallen short…
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:45amI understand what you’re saying. As a Muslim my faith is critical of same-sex relationships. Very similar to Judaism and Christianity view on homosexuality. But look at the history of same-sex relations and even homosexuality in other animals. Think about it. Just a thought.
Report Post »Welcome Black Carter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:11amAh, I think your reading the wrong book.
Report Post »luvnmycountry
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:14amWhat ISN’T gross, filthy, smelly, painful, unsanitary, unnatural and outright deviant about a man’s anatomy penetrating the anus of another, (male or female)?
Report Post »CaptainEmeritus
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:28amA false prophet for profit
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:36amTOTALLY FAUX REMARK, dude. Don’t try to paint Joel Osteen with that brush. Watch him instead and then try to foist that old, jealous nonsense. Millions of us know better.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:46am@CaptainEmeritus
Spot on. He’s no different than Swaggart or Roberts or Baker or Hinn – they’re all extremely talented salesmen.
If you fall for their nonsense, that’s fine. Just don’t expect me to tow the line. Never quite understood what people got from these types that they couldn’t get on Sundays at their local parish.
Report Post »GetRight
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:59amGood one! I agree! He gives me the creeps. However, I agree with him that God doesn’t categorize sin and as sinful people ourselves, I believe we should not spend our time judging others. God loves all people the same but He hates sin. By grace he will accept us if we repent and accept the sacrifice He made for us, but accepting sin and a sinful lifestyle will only lead people away from God’s grace and salvation. For that I think Osteen is a false prophet. He is not accurately portraying God’s word. I think he is more concerned with popularity and makes millions just by making people feel okay about themselves. But I am not afraid to say that I am a Christian and I believe what the Bible says. Sometimes reading the Bible makes you feel good and other times it shows you just how far from grace we are. The purpose of God’s word is not to make us feel good about ourselves (although God’s love and sacrifice should), but also to educate us and show us how to live, treat others, and how we can live in eternity with Him. I think it is crazy that people think Christians are bigots because we “hate gays”. I always say that I didn’t make the rules and I trust in my God. Their problem is not with Christians but with God Himself. It is sad that Osteen would use his platform to lead others away from salvation for his own popularity.
Report Post »dlmarsh
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:20amaaaaa
Report Post »His_Way
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 8:17pmWow, I could barely listen to his garbage on this clip!! Message to happy pc Joel: Does not His Word include focus on a relationship with the Lord, to walk with God, not about striving to get ahead, to be proud of what you accomplish, and aquire possessions on this earth!!!
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 9:25amIf it’s sin, then it’s ORIGINAL sin, and we ALL have that. Besides, how could God hold a person responsible for how HE made you?
Report Post »Welcome Black Carter
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:02amExactly. Alcoholic, drug addict, axe murderer. Why should you be responsible for your actions. You were made that way.
Report Post »BigSky
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:11amif God created homosexuals then God is not perfect and we’re just chasing shadows on the cave wall.
Report Post »thegrassroots
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 10:25am@aolrefugee
We aren’t stamped-out-with-a-cookie-cutter robots. We are all blessed with our God Given Free will. How we live is our choice. Our loving Heavenly Father has shown us our options, but He Will Never Go Against what we decide about our life choices.
The world we are living in, today, is not the world God created for us. Man constantly choosing to go against God’s Plan For Us is what brought mankind into where we are. Inspite of what many people choose to think — God Doesn’t Send People To Hell! People Choose To Go To Hell!
The bottom line is: We Are ALL Sinners In Need Of A Savior! Jesus Is That Savior and We Can Choose Jesus To Be Our Savior and Redeemer, Or Not! Again, in spite of what many people think, Choosing Salvation And The Resulting Redemption, Is Very Simple.
We, very simply, need to get to know Jesus and Who Jesus Is and What Who Jesus Is Means To Each and Every One Of Us. A good place to start is to open a Bible and while reading the Gospel of John, asking Jesus to reveal himself to us. Jesus meets us where we are at, no matter how deeply into our unbelief we are. Jesus Always Honors The Honestly Searching Heart.
“And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart,” ~ Jeremiah 29:13
I don’t follow Joel Olsteen. I just hope he’s teaching the Full Gospel. If he isn’t and folks are being deceived by his teachings, he’s going to be the one having to explain it all to Jesus someday.
Report Post »CATSUEY
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 11:40amDo you really think that God would make you that way and then call you an abomination?? That doesn’t make sense.
Report Post »squonk1pb
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 12:07pmLife is a series of choices. We all have free will.
Report Post »thegrassroots
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 1:29pm@catsuey
Homosexuals are people who have made a moral choice to practice the gay lifestyle.
We’re ALL faced with moral choices everyday, ie:
Does someone cheat on their spouse, or not? Does someone indulge in recreational sex / pre-marital sex, or not? Does someone steal a car because it’s parked on the street with a key in the ignition, or not? Does someone return to a store and pay for an item the clerk forgot to charge them for, or not? Does someone slander another with lies, or not? Does someone stay silent when they hear lies being told about another, or not? Etc …
Anyone who thinks God will give a pass to the gay lifestyle needs to read up on Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis.
Fortunately for ALL of us sinners:
“For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son [Jesus], that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM, should not perish but have everlasting life. For God DID NOT SEND His Son [Jesus] into the world to condemn the world, but that THE WORLD THROUGH HIM MIGHT BE SAVED.” ~ John 3:16,17
So profoundly simple and yet powerful! Thank You, Jesus!
Report Post »Joseph the Gray
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 4:26pmWhat “original sin” are you talking about? I hear that term used a lot. Do you mean the disobedience of Adam and Eve? I have to live in a world that is cursed as a result of that sin, but that doesn’t make me a sinner. I did that on my own.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:25pmJOSEPH THE GRAY: What do you mean, “What original sin are you talking about?” Better brush up on it, even if all you’ve got is Wikipedia.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:48pmTHEGRASSROOTS: After all your gas blasting, what makes you think that sexual orientation has anything to do with free will?
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 6:55pmSQUONK1PB: Refer to my response to THEGRASSROOTS. Did you freely select your own ******? Can you freely will yourself an erection? Get a clue, for crying out loud.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:09pmCATSUEY: First you need to comprehend my original comment before I bother answering your questions.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:20pmBIGSKY; Don’t presume to judge God’s perfection based on your own erroneous standards. Ever hear of (human) hermaphrodites?
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:26pmWELCOME BLACK CARTER: Could you possibly be any more ludicrous? With the exception of a baby born to an alcoholic or addicted mother, people are not born alcoholic, addicted, OR axe murderers. So, your feeble attempt at an analogy doesn’t even qualify as the sarcasm you intended.
Report Post »AOL_REFUGEE
Posted on January 9, 2012 at 7:29pmWhat’s with you people? Are you sure you’re voting anti-Obama along with me? I’m not even gay, so why do I have to explain these things to you? Please. Wise up. You’re scaring me.
Report Post »