PayPal Clarifies Its Position (Twice!) on the Sale of e-Books Containing Images of Rape, Bestiality, Incest, & Child Porn
- Posted on March 14, 2012 at 6:00am by
Becket Adams
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Last month, PayPal sent emails to at least three e-book publishers and booksellers warning them that their accounts would be “limited” unless they removed titles that contained “themes of rape, incest, bestiality and underage subjects,” Reuters reported last week.
But what did they mean by “themes”? That seems like a poorly chosen word because, if you think about it, wouldn’t that include pretty much everything written by the Greeks and the Romans?
We’re not sure what’s going on here, but we’re hoping PayPal bans it.
In response to the company’s announcement, free speech groups including the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the Authors Guild, the American Booksellers Foundation for Free Expression, and the Association of American Publishers went on the offensive and launched several anti-censorship protests.
“The topics PayPal would ban have been depicted in world literature since Sophocles‘ ’Oedipus‘ and Ovid’s ‘Metamorphoses,’” the groups wrote, according to a draft letter sent to CNET. “PayPal, and the myriad other payment processors that support essential links in the free speech chain between authors and audiences, should not operate as morality police.”
As the complaints grew louder, PayPal spokesman Anuj Nayar decided to explain in a blog post that the company actually allows its service to be used for the sale of “erotic” books but that it draws the line “on certain adult content that is extreme or potentially illegal.”
“An important factor in our decision not to allow our payments service to be used to purchase material focused on rape, incest or bestiality is that this category of eBooks often includes images [emphasis added],” Nayar explained.
“This type of content also sometimes intentionally blurs the line between fiction and non-fiction. Both these factors are problematic from a legal and risk perspective,” he added.
PayPal soap: for the PayPal employees who have to deal with the authors of these books.
Furthermore, according to a February 24 email, PayPal based its decision on major financial concerns, stating ”Our banking partners and credit card associations have taken a very strict stance on this subject matter.”
Above: Nayar & Paul Sorvino. Separated at birth? You decide.
“Our relationships with the banking partners are absolutely critical in order to provide the online and mobile services we (offer) … to our customers. Therefore, we have to remain in compliance with their rules, which prohibit content involving rape, bestiality or incest,” the email added.
So they were simply concerned about the financial and legal ramifications of participating in the sale of titles that include images related to rape, incest, bestiality, and child porn.
Seems pretty clear, right? Apparently not. PayPal had to go out a second time and clarify their stance.
On Tuesday, PayPal released the following statement:
First and foremost, we are going to focus this policy only on e-books that contain potentially illegal images, not e-books that are limited to just text. The policy will prohibit use of PayPal for the sale of e-books that contain child pornography, or e-books with text and obscene images of rape, bestiality or incest…
In addition, the policy will be focused on individual books, not on entire “classes” of books. Instead of demanding that e-book publishers remove all books in a category, we will provide notice to the seller of the specific e-books, if any, that we believe violate our policy.
To be clear, we have not shut down the PayPal account of any of the e-book publishers involved in this matter.
Creepily enough, Joan Bertin, executive director of the National Coalition Against Censorship, is dissatisfied with PayPal’s second clarification.
“Verbal descriptions of child pornography are not illegal,” she told Reuters. “That’s why we can read Lolita…Actual images of child pornography are a different situation all together — if they are photos of actual children.”
“I‘m glad they’re moving in the right direction, but I hope they continue to consider potential problems they are creating for themselves and their customers by getting involved in such policing,” Bertin added. “I don’t think we need another quasi police force trolling the Internet.”
(H/T: Newser)
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Comments (46)
Blue60
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 5:16pmI hate Paypal for the way they treat sellers…keeping their money for 21 days but forcing sellers to ship items without said money. They are also hypocrites because tons of “porn” type sellers use Paypal on Ebay and elsewhere. Having said that, if they don’t wish to be partner with selling illegal items, then they shouldn’t have to.
Report Post »kevinj319
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 4:49pmOf course, everyone cheers this decision. YAY! After all, it’s child porn, so that’s the “good” kind of banning. All the little sheep line up in support to ban the offensive things because, after all, it’s for the CHILDREN!!
Everyone’s thrilled with the decision until they start removing books that contain conservative themes, references to the constitution, or other forms of “racism” because those are all “offensive” things too.
Report Post »do_it_all_again
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:07pmi might have missed something, but i dont understand the relevancy to this story and the two guys pictured, being separated at birth !
Report Post »on the other hand, this is capitalism, they are a business, and have the right to broker,or not,
the products / services they deem appropriate for their business model.
GoodStuff
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 1:59pmGood for PayPal.
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 1:24pmI have never used pay pal except once when buying beneficial nematoads, couldn’t but anywhere else. It made me very uncomfortable, don’t know why, just did. I commend them for taking this stand. if they are against the 2nd amendment, that;\’s a different issue, I would like it clarified by someone on this blog-Thanks.
Report Post »VTDave
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 2:06pmPaypal does not support the 2nd Amendment…. However, it has never stopped me from using their service to pay for 2nd Amendment related parts, etc. ;) You just need to be discreet. Also, using Paypal to make these purchases is kind of like using them against themselves so it does not bother me in the least.
Report Post »junkmaninohio
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 1:19pmAmazon’s Kindle Fire book selections contain the same thing. It’s digusting.
Report Post »PubliusMaximus
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:34pmBestiality? Incest?
What’s not to love? If same-sex partnering can be legalized as “marriage”, then having sex with your adult daughter can’t possibly be considered as wrong.
If the state thinks a 12 year old girl is old enough to have an abortion without parental consent, how about if she decides to have sex with her brother or uncle or dad? Clearly sex itself is ok, so just because its a relative…????
Dogs have sex all the time- clearly they are not finicky about partners. Why not allow a loving human companion?
sarc/off
Report Post »VanceUppercut
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:57pm@PubliusMaximus
Really, your arguments are tired and played out. You‘re an idiot in a world you can’t hope to understand.
Report Post »bigmel754
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:07pmThis is how it all gets started a company or several companies decide they do not want to support the distribution of PORN, CHILD PORN, RAPE & let us not leave out BEASTILAITY! Hooray for PAYPAL and the credit card companies! It is so simple if they don’t want to participate in the distribution of this type of trash. THEY have every right to do so! As well as you have the right to take your business elsewhere, so go! It is such a norm for people who want trash in their lives to attack and misrepresent facts! The above material has nothing to do with the limiting access to great classics of literature of any era in time! They are not telling you; you can’t have access to the material (porn that is), they’re just not going to use their name or business to promote such an offensive product. Again, the fact still stands they are not telling you cannot own or stopping you from owning the trash, they are saying they are not going to buy them for you!! Great isn’t it!
Report Post »Ne_FAL
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:53amThe policy is concerning selling books that have images of RAPE ,INCEST,BESTIALITY,CHILD PORNOGRAPHY!!! All of these are considered OBSCENE MATERIAL by Federal courts, do you comprehend that ??? The folks at PayPal could end up in FEDERAL PRISON for aiding in the distribution of such items & folks are bad mouthing them for not helping distribute it. This is proof of the inability to discern right from wrong in this country or even basic 5th grade reading comprehension.
Report Post »jungle J
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:26amwho would want to read this stuff…..only the sane understand.
Report Post »beket
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:10amAs a writer (and seller) of indie ebooks, I was concerned about this. Not because I write vile garbage like that (quite the opposite; the vast majority of what I write is family-friendly), but because of how it could be implemented.
We’ve seen it all over this country; some law or rule that is imposed in the extreme, like “no drugs” in school getting kids kicked out because they have an unauthorized Advil. Too many people (I think simply because they’re on a power trip) impose the letter of the law, not the spirit of the law. I have a short story reprinted in one of my ebooks called “Ten Gallons a [sounds like Hoard].” Other than the title, it’s tame and barely PG-13, but I can easliy see some bureacratic type labelling it in some way that it ends up grouped with vile works.
PayPal has the right to run their company the way they see fit. And if they don’t want to be connected to such material, that’s their right (and quite admirable). But I recommend they use a method akin to what is used here at The Blaze. A “report” button. Then PayPal can decide if that work is the type of material they want to be used for.
Report Post »MrKnowItAll
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:06amOh No! Now they will have competition from Porn Pal.Com
Report Post »If it’s legal in the Military, what’s up? Can’t you hear it already?
Stand with me and stop this madness.
Decency is what we all need back in our lives.
Stop playing Satan’s game.
Mandors
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 10:47amWe are not talking about Oedipus and Antigone, or Jupiter and Io. I have grown tired of lame intellectual exceptions used to throw out bright line tests that anyone with a sixth grade intellect could enforce. At least PayPal is trying. Whether they accomplish anything, that is another matter, but I think the time has come where some “chilling” censorship in our society wouldn’t be such a bad thing.
Report Post »wzanesdad
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 12:57pmYou’re absolutely right…..free speech does not mean that EVERYTHING is ok, and nothing is off limits. Self government does not work without self discipline. There has to be a line that shows young people, (especially children) what is right and moral, and what is not.
sizzlinsexybeckster
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 10:31amThis has nothing to do with PayPal. PayPal can’t babysit everything out there. The problem is that these publishers should not have allowed themselves to publish these books in the first place. No it is NOT about free speech… they are putting criminal acts in words and photos – that’s a crime in itself. It’s a criminal act you dumb people – wake up! The publisher should go to jail to teach them a lesson not to publish a book from a pervert in the first place. The pervert should also go to jail – heck, almost the whole world would have to go to jail because most of the world exploits women and children – and you get nut jobs like this Joan Bertin – who doesn’t respect women or children and condones rape, incest, bestiality, and child porn in books and movies. Photos or not – it’s gross and uncalled for. Fiction or non fiction, it doesn’t matter how you title it. Those authors should be burned at the stake (why waste tax payers dollars on over crowded prisons for losers that’ll never learn) for their crimes on paper, and so should the publishers for allowing that crap in their office and to be spread around the world on paperback or e-book. Again, it is NOT free speech – it’s criminal. People have NO MORALS and only want a buck – too many perverts with dollars to spend with books approving their criminal minds and future/past acts. This is gross. Not PayPal’s fault. Does anyone have a brain? Excuses to exploit women and children – what else is new?
Report Post »scuba13
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 10:46amYou would make a great Nazi.
Report Post »Pontiac
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:30am@sizzlinsexybeckster
Report Post »So any book about Muhammad and what he did to his 9 year old bride Aisha should be not only banned but the authors and publishers should be burned at the stake… And this from a fascist pervert advertising their sex appeal in their user name. Yeah…
Old_Bones
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:47amWell, if it wern’t for people (like you?) creating a demand…..just sayin…..
Report Post »pbrenda51
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 9:33amI no longer usepaypal…..I was going to order something on the internet recently, but when it said pay with paypal, I called to see if there is another way to pay and there was not…..I didn’t order
Report Post »piper60
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 9:13amThe best way to send a message to paypal is to NOT use their service. Anything else is censorship plain and simple. Part of having freedom of speech is putting up with stuff you don’t like.
Report Post »SpankDaMonkey
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:15am.
I bet somebody will sue them for violating their rights to be a pervert…….
I got $20 on it…….
Report Post »georgepatton
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:53amI will not use pay-pal because of their anti-second amendment stance!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »The Jewish Avenger
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:22amDidn’t know this… link?
But good for them, let the pervs spank it to their gross crap elsewhere.
Report Post »Walkabout
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:44amAt this rate bestiality & lowering the age of consent to 14 will become of the planks of the Democrat platform for the 2020 election cycle.
Report Post »YourVoiceMatters
Posted on June 1, 2012 at 2:17pmi remember reading decades ago where the dems were trying to get the age of consent to 7!
Report Post »now they just give them sex indoctrination in school to futher their purient desires. Why do you think there is an up take in all the missing children cases…and the attacks on children by teachers…and all the other degrading and disgusting acts perpetrated on children, women, and animals! by these bad actors in society! It is wholly disgusting the mindset of people these days…and they just want to do what they want to do irregardless of anyone elses feelings about it, including the victims of this illegal activity, the law and anything else in their way….Depravity gone to seed, no morals, no self control, and no values what so ever!
Itsjusttim
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:32amWhen Heaven and earth have faded away then all the things in this article appeals to people, because people no longer find comfort in their own heart and minds. They look for physical comforts outside their own existence because “His” kind is no longer showing itself because “His” kind has become a deaf and mute spirit not showing himself from the face of human beings. When gradually Heaven and earth fades away it reflects on the face of the earth through people’s discontent, and motivating them to want Ipads, cars, bigger houses etc. Heaven and earth fading away is even what drove men to seek out electricity.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:50amWhen someone isn’t riddled with idiocy; the love of distractions; everything superficial; when you take all that away from your mind you’ll notice things and not over-look them. I noticed there were great changes coming just in one event. In the middle of a certain town in the middle of a certain cemetery there is Ancient Native American burial mounds, and a bear walked unseen through the town by anyone in this town that a bear should have been seen, and wasn’t seen until someone noticed it laying down in the middle of the cemetery on-top of a mound.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:07amThe Native Americans really, really understood Heaven and earth a lot, and they were the care-takers of the beloved land which is a land not carved by hands.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:11amAnd the Mayans also came to understand the beloved land, and abandoned their superficial temples. People try to look for some scientific reason as to why they would abandon such wonderful structures. They are mostly wonderful in the minds of people who can’t find “Wonderful” in their own minds and hearts.
Report Post »Itsjusttim
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:22amAnd it’s these fore-mentioned line by lines and precepts after precepts that people have forgotten, and so they go about throwing open graves and searching for answers, trying to impress people with science, because they have burned their fossils. It’s going to happen exactly the same way, and there isn’t one thing people can do about it, because it’s the entire universe against little you. The little scientific details don’t really matter, because over-all the same reason has caused all ancient societies to abandon their structures and towns.
Report Post »scuba13
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:56amMore incoherant babble from our resident idiot.
Report Post »jujubeebee
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:10amI was happy to hear that paypal took this stand against pornography. What is illegal to sell at your neighborhood book store should also be illegal by this country’s online companies. The laws were made to draw the line for a reason. To expose all to these books while surfing for books to read is wrong. If they are not allowed in the library then they should not be allowed on the internet for anyone …children included…to see and buy. Good for Paypal. I am sure that this will take some extra work on their part!
Report Post »Choctaw25
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:24amI knew there was a reason, I don’t shop any on-line retailers unless they accept PayPal. Not only is it so much easier, but it appears they have morals and character.
Report Post »What a refreshing thought.
captainbars
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:08am“Actual images of child pornography are a different situation all together — if they are photos of actual children.” Some years ago, when certain congressmen saw how real CGI was, they tried to pass a federal law against CGI children in pedophile films. The left fought it and won, arguing the children weren’t real. Maybe that’s what Joan Bertin meant, but it’s still porn, no matter the medium; a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Report Post »EP46
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 6:56amIt’s called Not trafficing in child porn…..which is illegal……Thanks Pay Pal
Report Post »Magyar
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 6:48amThank GOD a company has decided to stand on principle. As a free enterprise company, they have the right to define the parameters of operation. Good going! I’ll keep my PayPal account!
Report Post »JJ Coolay
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 6:27amThey’re not limiting freedom of speech. They just have the right to refuse to participate in it. It’s their business and their prerogative to limit who they do business with. Period.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:54amAgreed.
Report Post »quiltgal
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 8:38amI too support the right of PayPal or any other retailer to choose the type of merchandise it wants to sell, provided it is legal merchandise, and to exclude the type it doesn’t.
Report Post »mike1956will
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 11:24amAmen!
Report Post »portague
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 6:20amits called CYA and its a good policy. I doubt there stopping freedom of speach. They just want to stay out of material that could be illegal.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on March 14, 2012 at 7:01amIt is very high minded of them, but if they stick to it I think that they will end up in all sorts of difficulties. They have already started to tie themselves in explanatory knots at the very outset.
Would it not be simpler to say that they will hand the details of potential transactions in obscene material over to the police?
Then they wouldn’t face the conundrum of deciding whether or not to facilitate the sale of Shakespeare, for example. (Incest, in case anybody was wondering.) And if it were a real case of obscene material, the police can chase down the villians, which is much better than doing a Pontius Pilate and washing their hands of the problem.
Report Post »