Perry ‘Tersely’ Repudiates Key Backer Who Called Romney a ‘Cult’ Member
- Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:04am by
Scott Baker
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WASHINGTON (AP) — The pastor who introduced Texas Gov. Rick Perry at a conservative gathering Friday said rival presidential candidate Mitt Romney is not a Christian and is in a cult because he is a Mormon.
Robert Jeffress, senior pastor at First Baptist Church in Dallas, endorsed Perry at the Values Voters Summit, introducing him as “a proven leader, a true conservative, and a committed follower of Christ.”
After his remarks, Jeffress told reporters that Perry‘s religion is different from Romney’s.
“Rick Perry’s a Christian. He’s an evangelical Christian, a follower of Jesus Christ,” Jeffress said. “Mitt Romney’s a good moral person, but he’s not a Christian. Mormonism is not Christianity. It has always been considered a cult by the mainstream of Christianity.”
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Romney is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, whose members are commonly called Mormons.
Perry’s campaign said the Texas governor disagrees with Jeffress.
“The governor does not believe Mormonism is a cult,” said spokesman Mark Miner.
Perry’s campaign said that Values Voters Summit organizers, not the campaign, chose Jeffress to introduce the Texas governor. Perry’s campaign did not immediately respond to inquiries about whether the governor had agreed to have Jeffress introduce him.
Jeffress had made similar comments about Romney before, during the former Massachusetts governor’s first presidential run in 2008.
“Mitt Romney is a Mormon, and don’t let anybody tell you otherwise. Even though he talks about Jesus as his lord and savior, he is not a Christian,” Jeffress said in a 2007 sermon. “Mormonism is not Christianity. Mormonism is a cult. And just because somebody talks about Jesus does not make them a believer.”
In that sermon, Jeffress said he accepted Romney anyway. But he said, “What really distresses me is some of my ministerial friends, and even leaders in our convention, say, ‘Well, he talks about Jesus, we talk about Jesus, what’s the big deal?’ It is a big deal.”
Texas Gov. Rick Perry on Friday tersely repudiated the remarks of a Dallas pastor who disparaged the Mormon faith of Perry’s presidential rival, Mitt Romney shortly after introducing Perry at the Values Voters summit in Washington.
In Tiffin, Iowa, where Perry flew for a barbecue after his speech to the gathering of social conservatives, he was asked three times whether he agreed with the pastor Robert Jeffress’ characterization of Mormonism as “a cult.”
“No,” Perry said to the first question. To the second: “ No, I’ve already answered that back there. I told him no.” Asked by a third reporter whether he associated himself with the pastor’s remarks, Perry said: “I already answered that question,” before being whisked out the door.
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Comments (271)
billwhit1357
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:26amHey, if America ignored Obama attending a Hate American and Whitey church for twenty years, then they can ignore Romney’s Mormon religion also! I am no Romney fan, but there is no doubt in my mind that he would do a much better job than the worthless Obama! Romney has proved himself in the Financial and Leadership world, Obama had no record and had never proved himself. Now, he has had three years to prove himself a leader and he has Failed Horribly! Anyone, even another Democrat, Hillary (maybe) would be better than backing the nonAmerican Hussein! One thing that is obvious about Obama, he was not raised in America, but in Islamic Lands, during his formable years. That is why he has no American Values such as Honor, Dignity, or Integrity! They say he is an “Intellect” but certainly hasn’t shown it, but he has shown he has NO Common Sense at all! I was a Democrat in 2008 and saw right thu his BS and outright Lies. I would have voted for Hillary, but not the NonLeader Fool, Hussein Obama!
Report Post »decendentof56
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:38amBill…..Be careful with regards to Hillary. She is Obama light, and definitely not to be trusted. Many of her views are, without doubt, Socialist. Remember, “it takes a village” to raise a child. I’ll raise my own.
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:04amdecendentof56
You have that totally wrong…it takes a village to raise an idiot…and we now have many village idiots who are now useful idiots.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:39amI don’t like Romney, but it has nothing to do with him being Mormon. Yes, he would do a better job than Obama, but he’s also Obama light. He’s slightly left of McCain. He’s a RINO, and not a conservative. He‘s probably the best conservative you’ll see out of Mass.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:43amPerhaps Pastor Jefress should re-read the 9th Chapter of Mark starting around verse 38. Also a good read is http://www.maxlucado.com/articles/topical/life_aboard_the_fellow-ship
Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don’t see things the way you do.
ROMANS 14:1 MSG
Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God. ROMANS 15:7 NIV
I pray for these followers, but I am also praying for all those who will believe in me because of their teaching. Father, I pray that they can be one. As you are in me and I am in you, I pray that they can also be one in us. Then the world will believe that you sent me. (John 17:20)
Of all the lessons we can draw from this verse, don’t miss the most important: Unity matters to God. The Father does not want his kids to squabble. Disunity disturbs him. Why? Because “all people will know that you are my followers if you love each other” (John 13:35). Unity creates belief. How will the world believe that Jesus was sent by God? Not if we agree with each other. Not if we solve every controversy. Not if we are unanimous on each vote. Not if we never make a doctrinal error. But if we love one another.
Report Post »Sleazy Hippo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:57amPastor Robert Jeffress was just saying the Truth.
Governor Perry thanked him high and low at the Values Voters Summit, after he was introduced. He said the pastor was shepherd for one of the largest flocks in America.
While I do not agree with organized church teachings, There are CULTISTS among us passing for Christians.
Report Post »Stuck_in_CA
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:05amIsn’t the definition of a Christian, one who believes Jesus Christ is the Messiah, the only begotten Son of YHVH?
Report Post »The Father will sort everything else out.
Stuck_in_CA
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:12amTea Partiers desert Perry for Cain, sending Texas governor plummeting in polls
Report Post »http://blog.chron.com/rickperry/2011/10/tea-partiers-desert-perry-for-cain-sending-texas-governor-plummeting-in-polls/
Roberto G. Vasquez
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:43amThe Rpublican candidates seem to be STUCK ON STUPID since they keep falling over and over again for left-wing media ambushes!!!! The ENEMY is the Demo-Marxist left, not other Republicans. They need to get that through their heads and concentrate on attacking the OBAMA LEFT, not each other.
Report Post »TEXASGRANNY73
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:52amHillary quotes “When I am president, we’re going to get it done–we’re going to have universal health care”. Hillary Dem. debates:” I consider myself to be a modern day progressive.” Same coin different faces.
Report Post »Stuck_in_CA
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:58amFrom FreeRepublic:
To: Irenic
I suggest that everyone read the following report about Texas Border Security:
http://www.texasagriculture.gov/vgn/tda/files/1848/46982_Final%20Report-Texas%20Border%20Security.pdf
It was written by two military experts who each have extensive experience. The report seems long, but one can get the meat of it by reading pages 9-15.
Note the recommendations.
16 posted on Saturday, October 08, 2011 2:01:26 AM by LOC1 (Let’s pick the best, not settle for a compromise.)
Report Post »[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]
beckisnuts.
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:14amThe headline of this story by Pravda West AKA The Blaze, is another example of the slanted style of reporting here. A more accurate headline would read: “Pastor, Robert Jeffress of the First Baptist Church in Dallas, says “Mormonism is a cult.” The First Baptist Church of Dallas is a mega church with a membership of at least 10,000 people. The fact that its pastor describes Mormonism as a cult is very significant. Beck is in a cult, according to a large number of Christians.
Report Post »beckisnuts.
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:32amYHVH? Is that like YMCA?
No, the YMCA is real. YHVH is not.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:13pmSleazy Hippo-
What makes the mormon church cultish? Is it all the charity they do around the world? By the way if its truly a cult you should probably not read the blaze because Glenn’s a mormon genius. Most intelligent people would say that all religions start out as a cult. This Jesus guy that christians believe in was thought of as a false prophet in his day. Turns out he was the savior of the world. When his tiny band of apostles went out to preach the word to the gentiles that early church was thought of as a cult. “A prophet hath no honor in his own country among his own people.” The Mormon church isn’t about any one mortal individual. The church is “The church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.” Can’t see the word Christ anywhere in that title can you? The church is about Christ. There is a lay ministry in the Mormon church. Nobody is paid therefore none gains any monetary wealth. Do you conservatives want to lose the Mormon vote? Because this divisiveness is ludicrous. If you were to lose the Mormon vote you would lose elections like crazy. Do you understand how much money “Mormons” have? Quit acting like you are the judge of who is Christian. “By their fruits ye shall no them.” If someone acts like a christian in word and deed than they are one in my eyes. And according to the bible they would be to. The more you tout that they are a cult the more you look like a backwards redneck spewing unintelligent remarks.
Report Post »Pappypatriot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:03pmPerry had to know what the pastor’s stance and remarks were going to be. With the way things work and one ill thought out remark by either candidate or close associates can cause much harm to one’s campaign he had to have cleared his comments with the Perry campaign. The way some play the game and Perry is renowned for his scorched earth style of campaigning he figured he could get his true feelings out about Mitt’s faith through a surrogate and keep himself above the fray.
What the Perry camp may not realize is that LDS people are a very independent group and while majority may be conservative that in no way guarantees they will all vote for the same candidate. I imaging there are tens of thousands or more who support Perry and he risks losing many of them with careless remarks from his associates or himself.I know of many who are supporting any number of candidates other than Mitt Romney or Jon Huntsman. There are a large block who are supporting candidates like Ron Paul and all of the other candidates. Here is the number to that pastor’s church if you would like to call and give him your opinion on his remarks. NUMBER IS:.214-969-0111 Baptist Church of Dallas.
Report Post »barber2
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:16amAny religion which does not encourage it’s members to kill “infidels” ( anyone who differs from them) is ok with me. We do believe in separation of church and state in America. That is what really matters as the current spate of religious fanatics have reminded us.
Report Post »Susie
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:34amNevertheless it must be said.
Report Post »Romney worships in The Church of Jesus Christ. The Church of Jesus Christ. Get it ?
‘nough said !
godhead
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:30amMr. Wallis is a man of god. get it?
Report Post »beckisnuts.
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:31pmNo Susie. Here is a fact:Mormonism was created by a known fraud and huckster and it is all made up out of whole cloth. Face the facts. Long dead Jesus has nothing to do with it in reality. People can make all kinds of assertions, but facts are facts and truth is truth. Mormonism is the creation of an unscrupulous liar.
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:33pmBEKCISNUTS
“People can make all kinds of assertions, but facts are facts and truth is truth.”
Yes you are right on this. And all you said are just an assertions.
Report Post »Bot
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:54amI guess Mr. Jeffress would have to call Jesus Christ and the Christians of the first three centuries a “cult”. Mitt Romney believes in New Testament Christianity, not Mr. Jeffress’ Fourth Century Creeds, which have no basis in the New Testament. Who is calling whom a “cult”?
http://MormonsAreChristian.blogspot.com
Here are the characteristics of a cult:
Report Post »· Small? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) has 14 million members in 132 countries. In America, there are more Mormons than there are Presbyterians or Jews.
· Excessive devotion? Mormons are devoted to the Savior, but in appropriate measure He would approve of.
. Unethical techniques? Ask the pie-throwers to name one.
. Control by isolation? Even if Mormons wanted to, this would be impossible with 14 million members in 28,000 congregations throughout the world.
. Control by threats? Again, evidence? Mormon missionaries may be exuberant, but do not threaten.
. Dependency on the group? The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is just the opposite. Mormons want members to be self-reliant and independent so they in turn can help others.
. Powerful group pressure? Only if that’s the way the critics prefer to define love.
. Strange? Guilty as charged. Mormons plead guilty to all the strange things that were done by Christians in New Testament times that were lost during the great falling away in the aptly named Dark Ages, among them temple worship, vicarious baptism for the dead, definition of God, Jesus Christ,
Locked
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:08amIf Mormons have 14 millions worldwide adherents, that makes their TOTAL membership less than that of the Southern Baptists in the US (16 million). Just saying, they have a ways to go.
Mormonism is a FANTASTIC example of American religion. It is individualistic (where members are expected to save for themselves); it is Amero-centric (where it claims Jews from millenia ago sailed to america to establish empires… even though NO evidence has been found of it… and it claims that after death, Christ arose in America to guide his people); and it has, frankly, the nicest and most polite Evangelicals i have ever met. Don’t want to listen? They don’t curse you; they leave a tract and move on.
You can do worse than Mormonism if you want a religion; and you can do better if you want to follow the new Testament,
Report Post »Charb
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:25amI was thinking the same thing, BOT – only, not in as much detail. :). Christianity was quite the “cult”, by definition, when John The Baptist made way for the coming of the Lord.
Report Post »javasport
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 10:59amThe definition of cult and religion are pretty much the same. The only real difference is the amount of time spent and the amount of followers. You can pick on the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS for only so long with the cult reference before you start insulting your own Christianity by the same definition. Many of these revivalist religions were founded at the same time or only 100 years before (I am sure Catholics called you cults at some point in history). Youre so brave at insulting them because they dont adhere to the definition of the godhead as defined by the pagan Nicean creed, but then hide behind them when actual moral fights like prop 8 come up, letting them take the full brunt of the criticism. In the same breath that you condemn Mormons, you would say, although Jeramiah Wright is misguided, he is a Christian. I don’t understand evangelicals at all other than Jesus was fighting them all the time, they were called Pharasees.
Report Post »FranciscoDAnconia
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:23pmLOCKED-
Sorry to tell you but I was one of those Mormon missionaries that knocked doors for two years. Do you know how many pastors I had spoken with over those two years? I had spoken with literally hundreds of different pastors discussing their beliefs. Most of those pastors think differently on different doctrinal points in the New Testament. The christian churches are so very different that is shocking. Yes, they all believe that Christ is the savior but thats about as common as it gets. How to get to heaven? They all believe differently. They have to preach and differentiate themselves in a way that they can get more believers. Sorry to tell you this but churches in are day are businesses. They have to bring more followers into the flock of christ. Why do you think so many churches are constantly changing their philosophies? Its because they need to bring in more money to fund the tithes. Some churches think homosexuality is great others don’t. Some churches believe that all you need is a confession that Jesus is Christ and you are saved no matter what else you do. There is so much confusion within baptist, presbyterian, non-denominational, and so forth. I think its funny that christians are so critical of mormonism when they have factions of their own church all over the philosophical map. When it comes to politics I could care less what type of christian they are. I would even vote for a catholic-which strangely would not be considered christian even though they ar
Report Post »vivrobbins
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:26pmIt is a cult. http://www.waltermartin.com/cults.html
Report Post »Anne G
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:40amThey are Christians. And I applaud Perry for stating that he does not agree with this narrow minded pastor. Why do so many assume to know the mind of God? Mormons are Christians!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:58amthey are Christians like Muslims are Christians. Did the New Testament end with Jesus?
If you say Yes, then Mormons are cultists.
Is Jesus’s Word the final saying on life Everlasting?
Well, first you ignore Paul, but barring that, Mormonism is a cult.
Do you believe God is a physical entity living on a planet called Kolob?
… really? No? Huh… then I guess you agree Mormonism is a cult. You mean, as a Christian, you don’t expect to receive your own planet as well? Again… Mormonism. Are black people cursed by God to be subservient? Of course not! Christians have never believed that!… and neither have Mormons… after God gave a revelation to their president in 1978.
Mormonism is fine as a sect of belief, but saying it’s Christian is equivalent to saying Islam is Christian. Both accept Christ as savior; and both say that the New Testament is wrong. Pick a side.
Report Post »Nasado
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:04am@Locked
Report Post »Well its good to see that you know nothing of history or the Mormon faith and yet you try to condemn it.
1. If God is unchanging and has always sent revelation to His chruch, why would He stop after Christ? If God speaks today, is that not scripture.
2. Mormons do not believe God lives on Kolob. Obviously you just read that somewhere and have never looked into it yourself. Also, if God is not a physical entity, then how does he have hands, a face and other body parts that men have seen in the scriptures?
3. There has never been in the doctrines of the LDS church that blacks are cursed. Yes, people in the past has had that oppinion but I can be sure that other Christian leaders felt that way once too. It was the time and culture they grew up in, not God, that gave them those beliefs. (and please don’t try to quote Mormon Doctrine. I will just laugh at you)
If you say Mormons are not Christian then fine, but let people know that you are following your own definition of Christian. According to the English definition, Mormons are just as Christian as yuo are.
Lux
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:57amLocked… your name describes your mind perfectly. However, that being said, I hope you’ll unlock your mind and heart for a minute to the truth. To say that we ignore the teachings of Paul and that The Church of Jesus Christ “says the New Testament is wrong” Is a false statement. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly…” (Articles of Faith: 8 http://lds.org/library/display/0,4945,106-1-2-1,FF.html )
“Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (commonly called “Mormons”) revere the Bible as the word of God and use it regularly. Mormons use the Bible for personal study and teach from it during Sunday worship services.
Like all Christians, Mormons consider the Bible to be a sacred record that includes Heavenly Father’s dealings with ancient people who lived in the eastern hemisphere. It speaks of covenants He made with His children through prophets like Noah, Moses, and Abraham and recounts the events surrounding the ministry of His Son, Jesus Christ, as witnessed by the Apostles and others.” ( http://lds.org/topic/bible/ )
I’d recommend you do some real research from official sources, talk with members of that faith, and try to do so objectively with an ‘unlocked’ mind and open heart. Blamb61’s post below does a good job and explains the misconceptions you have about God’s physical nature. Also I’ll refer you to
Report Post »http://www.lds.org or http://www.mormon.org as good places to start i
joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 12:36pm@lux…..”We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly…” ”
in other words you believe it as YOU translate it…not what it really says…you don’t worship the same god as the God of the bible…the Jesus of the bible is not a created being, He is the eternal God…there are no works you can do for your salvation…its all what He did…and don‘t try to confuse us with your ’general salvation’.
your religion is a religion of works where you can become gods…its not christianity, which is base upon grace…
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 12:47pmoh an lux, other christian churches do not consider mormons christian..
While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.
Report Post »http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-catholic-church-say-about-the-practices-and-beliefs-of-mormonism
javasport
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:23pmHey it’s just like the Pharasees and Saducees and the Scribes who rejected Christ in his day because they had mixed their religion for too long with the doctrines of man, they couldnt even recognize him. Well a few did. I guess the Mormons are in good company. They can keep putting up with grief on all sides and still keep trucking along. As the bomber saying goes, if you aren’t receiving any flack, you aren’t over the target.
Report Post »vivrobbins
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:41pmWhy not decide for yourself? http://www.amazon.com/God-Makers-Shocking-Expose-Believes/dp/1565077172/ref=pd_sim_b34
Report Post »Pappypatriot
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 9:29amThe above link where the poster says find out for yourself was made by sworn enemies and apostates of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Just like you wouldn’t accept as unbiased fact from a Hamas group, information on what Jewish people believe or represent, you shouldn’t accept that information above as well. Those people have the same bitterness and enmity towards The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints as Hamas has toward Israel. Go here to learn more as this site was designed for that very purpose to answer questions and provide factual accurate information about what the Mormons believe. http://www.mormon.org
Report Post »MeteoricLimbo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:50amWhy is this great country here to begin with…
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:15amThe concept of Christ and the Father being one individual is not supported well in the Bible (that concept being accepted hundreds of years after the death of Christ). The word Trinity is not even contained in the Bible (King James Version). There is much much much more support in the Bible for them being two distinct individuals. Chirst prayed to the Father many times. Was he praying to himself? Christ said many times that the Father sent Him and that He came to do the Father’s will and not his own. A voice out of Heaven declared Christ to be His (the Father’s) son. Christ told Mary not to touch him because he had not yet ascended to his Father and his God. Christ said that the Father was greater than himself in John 14:28. There are many many more examples like this.
The beliefs of the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons), concerning Jesus and the Father being two distinct individuals, has more historical precidence (established in the Bible) than what Pastor Jeffress believes in (established in a council hundreds of years after the death of Christ).
LDS members most assuredly are Christian (as taught in the Bible) and accept him as their Savior. We want to be one with Him and the Father as Jesus prayed in John 17 (one in purpose and in conformity to righteousness – not one in being).
Look for what principles and morals a candidate believes in and practices and not their personal beliefs on this subject. Cain or Romney i
Report Post »Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:32amCan you please explain what Isaiah 48 means?
Isaiah 48:12-16
Report Post »“Listen to Me, O Jacob, even Israel whom I called;
I am He, I am the first, I am also the last.
“Surely My hand founded the earth,
And My right hand spread out the heavens;
When I call to them, they stand together.
“Assemble, all of you, and listen!
Who among them has declared these things?
The LORD loves him; he will carry out His good pleasure on Babylon,
And His arm will be against the Chaldeans.
“I, even I, have spoken; indeed I have called him,
I have brought him, and He will make his ways successful.
“Come near to Me, listen to this:
From the first I have not spoken in secret,
From the time it took place, I was there.
And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit.”
Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:36amCan you explain the quotes of the early Church Fathers that clearly teach and support the doctrine of the Trinity before the Councel of Nicea? Men such as:
Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
“O Lord God almighty… I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever” (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).
Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
“For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water” (First Apol., LXI).
Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
Report Post »“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.” (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Eph
Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:41am7.)
(sorry, that last one cut off at the end of the listed source.)
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation… [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.
Report Post »“If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority… There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father” (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:45am7.)
(sorry, that last one cut off at the end of the listed source.)
Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation… [which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).
Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.
Report Post »“If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority… There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father” (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
Islesfordian
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:13am“The concept of Christ and the Father being one individual is not supported well in the Bible”
And its not accepted by the orthodox faith either That is called the heresy of modalism, or specifically Patripasionism. The Nicene faith does not say they are the same individual. They are distinct PERSONS sharing the same ESSENCE. When Jesus was in the Garden praying to the Father he wasn’t praying to himself.
If you are going to disgaree with orthodox Christianity at least try to actually know what it is.
Report Post »sbenard
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:44amDoulos, you just made the case of the original poster. NONE of the references you cited are from scriptures. NOT ONE! NONE of those people, who none of us know here, are Christ, or his apostles. They were NOT authorities of Christ’s Church. You have just made the case that the early apostles spoke of — that there would be an apostasy — a falling away — from the principles and teachings of Christ and his apostles (see 2 Peter 2:1; Matthew 24:9–12; John 16:1–3; Amos 8:11; 2 Thessalonians 2:3–4 (Apostasy predicted). Jesus himself said that his Church was based upon apostles and prophets (see Ephesians 2:20), NOT these extraneous peripheral sources you cited that were separated from him by hundreds of years of apostasy. Those people you cited are PROOF of the apostasy, not evidence for doctrine not taught by Jesus or his apostles in the New Testament. The fact that you referred to these NON-inspired sources hundreds of years later, and CAN’T cite a single one from the Bible, is proof of just what the original poster said. You’ve only confirmed what he said, NOT refuted it!
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:14pmISLESFORDIAN
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are of the same Essence or substance! When Christ was baptized the voice of the Father was heard “Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Luke 3:22″ and the Holy Ghost fell upon Christ in the form of the dove. At the mount of transfiguration the Father’s voice declared “This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him-Mathew 17:5″. After Christ was resurrected he appeared to his apostles and ate with them he said “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. -Luke 24:39″. The Son had a body of flesh then and still does to this day. Nowhere in the Bible does it say otherwise and that he changed to a Spirit.
When Stephen was being stoned to death “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.-Acts 7:55-56). He saw Christ standing on the right hand of God (the Father).
The Bible does talk about a Godhead (Acts 17:29, Romans 1:20, and Colossians 2:9). See continuation below.
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:16pmIn Hebrews Chapter 1 it says:
Report Post »1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:17pm12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
God the Father talked about the preeminence of His Son and how he created the worlds by Him and that the Son is in His express image (they look alike).
If a person didn’t listen to teachings of a church and just read the Bible, I believe they would have to come to the conclusion that they are three distinct individuals united in purpose and forming a Godhead – but also three distinct individuals. How can you be greater than yourself and be equal to yourself at the same time – John 14:28?
So back to a presidential candidate – as long as they have the morals that I think are important and would implement the policies that I think are important – I don’t care what theology they espouse. I am a Mormon but I could vote for Herman Cain even though he is a Baptist minister because I think he is a moral man and I like what I’ve heard so far as to what policies he believes in. I don’t believe some of his theology but I don’t think that matters.
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 8:18pmHe said that he wasn’t getting into the fray when asked if he thought Mormons where Christian or not. Seems like he can see the forest despite the trees and can see what’s important is that people of moral character and supporters of correct policy unite so that incorrect policy and immoral people can be defeated. I like Mitt Romney very much also and not because he is Mormon (I despise Harry Reid) but because I believe him to be an outstanding person morally and I also can agree with what policies he stands for. Don’t be bigoted and foolish people. You don’t have to believe in someone’s theology to have them be a political leader. Like Herman Cain said, he is not running for Theologian in Chief! Neither is Mitt Romney!
Report Post »MrMagoo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:09amcrybabies.
Herman Cain 2012
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:53amI don’t have a heart . Cain all the way!
Report Post »Locked
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 5:11amI love pizza! 9-9-9!
… wait, you mean it’s an economic plan and not a pizza sale?
Well dang, I guess Cain is a pretty terrible choice for president after all!
Report Post »RepubliCorp
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:38amLOCKED The plan is bad for anyone that is getting a free pass. You know…..the takers not the producers.
Report Post »slr4528
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:28amRepublicorp-you are completely wrong in your assessment that it is the takers that won’t vote for 999, because I don’t like 999 and I am most definitely in the upper income bracket with lots of money in the bank.
I don’t like it because I know that someday in the future after a Cain presidency, there will be a democratic administration who will want to change the 9% income tax back to a progressive tax where high income earners will once again be placed in the highest bracket and guess what-the national sales tax will never ever go away. At some point to,I would see the national sales tax transitioning to a VAT as a reaction to people who avoid the national sales tax with barter schemes,etc..
Report Post »vivrobbins
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:51pmSeek the truth http://www.amazon.com/God-Makers-Shocking-Expose-Believes/dp/1565077172/ref=pd_sim_b34
Report Post »mad_hatter
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:57amI think this will hurt Perry more than help. This pastor is showing bigotry towards someone else’s faith.
Just because they believe in God and Jesus in a different way doesn’t mean they are a cult or not Christians, that is why we have so many churches out there, because they believe in different things yet they profess that they are saved by the grace of God through his atonement. That is Christianity. This pastor will most likely hurt Perry’s campaign more than help. Unless the anti-mormon bigotry runs deeper than I would have believed in America. But I don’t think it does.
Remember the definition of a ‘cult’, “a system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure” is nothing different than the baptist church, which that pastor came from, all professing in Christ.
ROMNEY IS A CHRISTIAN
Report Post »mad_hatter
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:59amSadly Perry didn’t repudiate this pastor, he kept his difference and released a statement. “We don’t believe it is a cult?”
Report Post »Big_D
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:57amI’m a regular guy with a great wife and kids, a job I‘ve worked hard to get and a business I’ve worked hard to keep, and I struggle to pay my bills, my educational loans, and I still wouldn’t change a thing in my life. I’m also a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or a Mormon. I can say there are good and bad everywhere and in everything. Each church will have a pathetic example of what the church actually teaches or stands for. You can’t judge the entire church buy one or a few bad examples when the vast majority of church-going members are great and excellent people. You may disagree with points of doctrine taught at various religions, but that is why each religion exists. Baptists are different from Catholics, Episcopalians are different from The Church of God, and Mormons are different from them as well. I’ve never hated any other religion. I know a fair amount of a couple other religions and I don’t hate them. I don’t get why people have such strong opinions about my church. The vast majority of church going people at my church are very nice with everyone they come in contact with. We try to treat everyone as Christ would. The leaders of our Church are always respectful to other religions and I’ve never heard them say one negative thing, ever. Why do others who are christian say negative and mean things about us? It is truly a puzzle and incomprehensible. It is also not christian-like, at least based on what the Holy Bible
Report Post »Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:23amDo you believe that there is but one God in three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, who are not three Gods, nor are each a seperate God apart from the others, but are each the one and only, eternal, and uncreated God; that is the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, each one not being simply a god, but the one and only God, with there never at any point ever having been another god, nor will there ever be another god?
Report Post »gdbhusker
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:58amI agree….. I was raised Baptist and taught that the Catholic church was pure satanism, I have been attending catholic church for 13 years now. EVERYTHING I was taught…was an outright LIE!!! I think ignorance and fear play the biggest role in this type of church to church mud slinging. I can also say with confidence that the bible says that you know people by their fruits……I have yet to meet a Mormon that was not a great human being! On the contrary, I have met many so called “true Christians” that are despicable, judgmental, selfish, and above all self righteous. I will not judge anyone, as that is God’s job.. I am called to love and accept, even as my father has loved and accepted me. May the peace and love of Jesus the Christ, be with you all.
Report Post »raouwlphff
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:48amThere are a lot of different beliefs in every Christian religion, but it doesn’t make any of them any the less Christian, unless your like Jeremiah Wright, who hides behind the name of Christ to extend his anti-American politics, and does it with the tax and political advantages of a “Christian” church.
Report Post »Criticizing any candidate because of his faith should be even more condemning than playing the “race” card, but some people seem to take great delight in doing so, when it isn’t THEIR church. I applaud Gov. Perry for defending Gov. Romney and trust he will continue to endorse a positive campaign posture regardless of who becomes the GOP choice.
abbygirl1994
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:47amWell its obvious to me that Pastor Jeffress is not a Christian either.. wow.. wasn’t it Jesus who said.. :Judge ye not, lest ye be judged”….Hypocrite!!
Report Post »Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:40amYou just called him a hypocrite… That sounds awefully judgemental of you to say that. Are you really that blind?
This passage, “Judge not lest ye be judged”, is one of the most misquoted, and least understood texts in the whole of Scripture. The Lord Jesus Christ didn’t stop with this saying, “judge not”. He continued, and this thought and teaching can be seen fully in Matthew 7:1-6.
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.
“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Understand what is being taught and commanded here. The Christian isn’t commanded not to judge. If that were the case, they would be some of the most foolish, blind, and accident-prone people on the planet! Christians are commanded to use discernment (judgement), and to judge in righteousness, not in hypocrisy! Don’t just read the Scriptures. Understand what you are reading. Pick up some commentary by scholars of the faith, like Calvin, Spurgeon,
Report Post »The Divided States of America
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:45amWould you all please listen to yourselves ? If i were a liberal, and i’m not, i’d have to sit back and say…wow…these so-called Christians are all wacked !!! Not only do they tare down anyone who doesn’t think their ways…they tare down anybody period!!!…When i read the message, I read things like…Love your neighbor as yourself,…apparently many so-called Christians have a poor outlook upon themselves, hence the vile rhetoric that takes place on these sites!!!…ive read the book and ive seen the movie…Jesus wins !!!
Report Post »Ortho
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:30amI am a little sad Rick Perry is not doing well. I think Romeny will be the guy but I don’t that he has has what we need. Rick Perry would not put up with BS and would not be afraid to stand up. However I also think Newt is the smartness guy , just don’t think he can win
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:23amWhat really matters is the morals and principles the candidates believe in and practice! Harry Reid is a Mormon but I wouldn’t vote for him in a million years because I think he is corrupt and espouses many liberal principles that I believe are incorrect principles that actually harm people. Mitt is a good man with good principles, so is Hermain Cain. I like them both a lot! I don’t think any of the candidates are perfect but I think these two would be really good. Gov. Perry worries my with his stance on giving illegal immigrants special priviledges like in-state tuition etc..
Report Post »HonestTrueAndChasedByAnElephant
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:20amI am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I witness to you all that I am a Christian, and so are all the other members of the church. There is only one Jesus Christ and we worship him as the atoning Savior of all the earth, determining to take his name on ourselves (read as:Christians), and to be worthy to have his spirit with us. How can there possibly be any contention over these facts when there are far things looming before us all?
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:49amWell said my brother or sister.. well said!
Report Post »britlynz
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:09amI’m not a Mormon. I’m one of those who is fairly convinced that God got the Bible right the first time around. That said, I’m not one of those evangelicals who dismisses Mormons as cult followers. You see, while I am convinced the flock is scattered, I also believe that the Shepherd knows exactly where His sheep are at. When my time comes, I won’t be at all surprised if I discover that his sheep occupied pews in Anglican, Catholic, Baptist, and Mormon churches. Nor would I be surprised if I learn that other pews in those same churches were occupied by those who were never His.
All that aside, what’s truly important in the political arena is that we unite under those principles that bind us. Specifically, that all men have been endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights and that the protection of those rights is why governments are instituted among men.
Unite there and we will all remain free to take pot shots at one another from the pulpit on Sunday. If we don’t, we will hear sermons written by the Soros and his minions.
Report Post »RACSAN20
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 9:24amWell said, well said.
Report Post »joe1234
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 12:45pm“I witness to you all that I am a Christian, ”
no you’re not…
While the Catholic Church would reject nothing that is true or good in Mormonism or any other world religion, Catholic theology would have to note that there is a tremendous amount in Mormonism that is neither true nor good. Further, because Mormonism presents itself as a form of Christianity yet is incompatible with the historic Christian faith, sound pastoral practice would need to warn the Christian faithful: Mormon theology is blasphemous, polytheistic, and cannot be considered on par with the theology of other Christian groups.
http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/what-does-the-catholic-church-say-about-the-practices-and-beliefs-of-mormonism
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:59amAwww, poor little Wick Pewwy sowwy?
Aww, we foegive you, you DUMB FREAKING REDNECK.
Report Post »Wishkah
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:32amyou may disagree… but the way you do it only shows what a complete jerk you are.. I can only hope you don’t favor the same person I do, I’d be so embarrassed to have anywhere near my candidate
Report Post »bolsen00
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:50amWow! Jeffress and Perry know how to draw near to Christ with their lips, but their hearts are far from him. Perry‘s distancing of Jeffress’ comments isn’t very convincing…especially when Perry asked Jeffress to be such a big part of his prayer summit in August. It‘s like sitting in Jeremiah Wright’s congregation for twenty years and not being affected by it!
Report Post »jzs
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:15amPerry, especially with the prayer meeting that kicked off his campaign, is appealing to white, Texas evangelicals. A lot of fringe, anti-Mormon, anti-gay, anti-all sort of stuff spoke at that meeting. It was “small tent” conservatism. Might keep him elected in Texas, but the more gets on the national stage, the more explaining he’ll have to do.
Liberals hope he’s the nominee. Liberals would love for Cain or Bachmann to be the nominee. You can liberals stupid, but they know who the only electable republican is Romney. And, let’s face it, he’s unelectable too. Americans had trouble electing a catholic (JFK) although he was far more dynamic that Romney. The fact, the sad fact IMO is that Americans will not elect a Mormon. I’m not saying anything negative about Mormonism, I’m just saying that the average, Christian American won’t vote for a Mormon, regardless of his politics. I think that’s sad, but it’s a fact I believe.
Report Post »slr4528
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 11:04am@JZS-that is what my husband has been saying all along. That the most qualified candidate won’t get the GOP nod because he is a Mormon and therefore we will have 4 more years of Obama.
People try to say he is a flip flopper and I investigated his flip flops and he is no more a flip flopper than the other candidates. Conservatives like heritage praised Romneycare in2007! People are just trying to rationalize not voting for him because the real reason he won’t get their vote is because he is a Mormon.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:49amMormonism is not a cult. It is a
Report Post »religion. They believe in Jesus.
Not the Jesus that the gospels talk about
but the American Jesus. I’m not disrespecting
anyones religion. There is no dispute though
that the Mormon beliefs are based upon
the gospel of Joseph Smith and not the gospels
of Jesus Christ. One could say that their beliefs
are not Muslim not Christian but a perversion of
the Gospels of Jesus Christ as most Christians know
it. May God show all His lost children His light and
his true word. Praise Him with great praise
brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:00amWow, your words are so inspirational. I’m sure you changed a lot of “HEARTS” with that comment.lol
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:17amThat comment by “We Are Americans” proves what I said earlier: “Perry got a real softball question. You don’t expose a politician by asking if “Mormonism is a cult?” — too aburd a postulate. Too easy to just say “No.“ The real question to ask a politician is ”Are Mormons Christian?” Then they either have to offend bigoted supporters (with the honest answer: “yes”) or look bigoted themselves (with the wierd answer “no”).”
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:18am@brian8793. I wasn’t aiming for
Report Post »inspirational. I was aiming for the truth.
Read the gospel of Matthew. Then read Mormon
doctrine. Tell me what if anything they have
in common besides references to Jesus Christ.
Jesus will come in the end times and turn
away many of those who said they believed in His name but
He shall say I never knew you. I believe Mormons
are good people. I just believe they are not
following the words of Jesus.But what do I
know?I’m jus a truck driver.
nheadman
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:24amYour IGNORANCE about Mormonism reminds me of the ignorance of the Wall Street protestors. You hear some extremely fanatical leader, with their own personal agenda, make an enemy of someone or something they don’t like, and you take it as truth. Mormons do not believe in the “gospel of Joseph Smith,” they believe in the Jesus Christ of the Bible, who gave himself for the sins of the world, died, and was resurrected on the third day. They just happen to believe that there are other prophets, past and present, with whom Jesus has communicated, and whose writings are not contained in the Bible. For your information, Jesus is not dead, but lives. Not all of His words, or His dealings with human beings, are contained within the limited pages of the Bible. Trust me, there are many more witnesses to his resurrection and reality. Don‘t forget that the mainstream religious leaders of Jesus’ day, leaders who also had their “Bible” (i.e., the writings of Moses), considered Christ himself as a heretic, a man with a devil, and one who was going outside of scripture. Stop your man-made bigotry, and remember that God loves everyone, so much that He gave His Son. Don’t put a cap on the revelations of Christ, He never has and never will.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:34am@nheadman. I am the God of the living, not
Report Post »the God of the dead. You call me ignorant yet
the Mormon doctrine came from Joseph Smith.
Am I wrong about that? As I‘ve said I’m not
denouncing your religion but you cannot say that
the Mormon doctrine is the same as the
Word of Jesus Christ contained in the gospels
and the other books if the New Testament.
We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:41am@nheadman. You also compare me to
Report Post »the great unwashed at the wall street protests?
I can read all by myself. I’ve read the gospels.
Ive read mormon doctrine. I figured it out all
by myself. You can worship a rock for all
I care but it dosnt make it a Christian rock. Lol.
I say all this with love
abbygirl1994
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:50amGood grief there is only one Jesus.. how many do you think there are???
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:59am@nheadman. One last comment. You said
Report Post »and I quote.,“limited pages of the bible”.
You either believe that the bible is the word
of God or not. It is not limited. If you can’t
find your answers there it’s fine. You need to
look for them elsewhere. But don‘t claim it’s Christian
doctrine.
Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:32amWould you agree then that the Christ that Mormons believe in accordance with the teachings of Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is, in fact, a false Christ, that the God they believe in is a false god, and that the revelation they believe in is a false revelation, making Joseph Smith a false prophet?
Report Post »Grannie4news
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:08am@We Are Americans: Genius, there is only one Jesus, the only begotten son of our Heavenly Father.
Report Post »We, as LDS members believe Jesus is our Saviour. The Bible is true and also the Book of Mormon is true. They go together. He also visited the peoples here is the Americas also before he ascended unto his Father. You should read it for yourself sometime to see what you are talking about instead of just by heresay. Again I repeat members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints are very much Christians.
Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:17am@nheadman
Psalm 5:5
The boastful shall not stand before your eyes; you hate all evildoers.
Psalm 11:5
The LORD tests the righteous, but his soul hates the wicked and the one who loves violence.
Proverbs 6:16-19
There are six things that the Lord hates,
seven that are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and one who sows discord among brothers.
And concerning doctrine and the sufficiency of Scripture as the sole rule of faith, it is written in 1 Corinthians 4:6,
I have applied all these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, brothers, that you may learn by us not to go beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up in favor of one against another.
Remember that, and take special note of the phrase “[do not] go beyond what is written”.
Report Post »Lux
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:31amDoulos, in Ephesians 4:11-14, Paul explains that prophets and apostles were put in the Church of Jesus Christ to help bring us to a unity of faith, among other reasons. Unity in the faith has clearly not been achieved (though you can make an important step in the direction by converting to the Restored Gospel today!), so prophets are still needed. Paul speaks of prophets and prophecy as something that is needed until there is religious unity (Eph. 4:11-14). In 1 Cor. 14:5 (see also v. 29), Paul wishes that all would have the gift of prophecy that the church might be edified. Is there no longer a need for edification?
Paul knew that the world, with its emphasis and reliance on human wisdom, would work to quench spiritual gifts and despise prophecy. But he said, “Quench not the Spirit” and “Despise not prophesyings” in 1 Thess. 5:19,20.
In light of the New Testament record, if there is any church on earth that can legitimately be called the Church of Jesus Christ, it must have apostles and prophets. And those who deny prophecy do not understand the scriptures.
Report Post »loriann12
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 7:49amI could call a potato Jesus Christ and say I follow potatoes, so I‘m a Christian and it wouldn’t make me a true Christian. Mormons believe that Jesus is Lucifer’s brother, they deny he was fully divine while at the same time fully human. They think he didn’t become God until his death and resurection. They also believe that they will all become gods when they die, and woman will be there to have spirit babies. That said, I think they have the right to believe whatever they want. I don’t care if Muslims pray in public, as long as no one breaks my leg or picks my pocket, they can do what they want. This country has freedom OF religion and freedom FROM religion, if you want to be an atheist, just don’t cram it down my throat.
Report Post »We are Americans
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 8:51am@grannyfornews. U call me a genius.
Report Post »Someone else called me ignorant.
Don’t be so sensitive. If you are lil gods
like your religion teaches then you should
be so above a traditional Christian like myself.
I’m stuck in 0 AD in my thinking apparently.
The bibles not good enough. We need a newer
improved version. Then we can tell everyone
else how our new religion is so much better
then their old stale one. That being said
I wish you love and truth.
Doctor Nordo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:24pm@LORIAN12
“Mormons believe that Jesus is Lucifer’s brother”
So? I fail to see how that is relevent or how it diminishes Jesus in any way, shape, or form.
They deny he was fully divine while at the same time fully human. They think he didn’t become God until his death and resurection.”
Wrong.
“They also believe that they will all become gods when they die, and woman will be there to have spirit babies.”
This is one of the most misunderstood and senesationalized concepts regarding the LDS faith. Anti-mormons such as yourself claim that LDS believe that we wish to supplant or usurp God’s throne, or that we will have no need of him after death. Such is absolutely not the case. The LDS don’t believe that it will be an immediate transformation, rather it is simply the goal of what we call “eternal progression”. Furthermore, nothing abouit this is un-biblical, and some of the earliest Christians absolutely believed in theosis.
See the following for a well-written and comprehensive showing of evidence:
http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_the_nature_of_God/Deification_of_man
Report Post »sister1_rm
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:34pmJesus Christ, the God of the Old Testament and the New Testament, is LORD over the whole Earth and all it’s people, not just the Jews and a few believers in ancient Israel. Should he not reveal Himself to all his people? Why would his gospel restricted to only a handful of followers in a small and isolated nation?
In the Old Testament the LORD made covenants with Abraham that through his seed all the families of the Earth would be blessed and they would be as numerous as the sands of the sea or the stars in the Heaven (see Genesis 22:17-18). The Savior said once said in St John 10:16 “And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd).
I’m not trying to point out contradiction or make anyone mad. I just want to clarify, from the Bible (which is supposed to be read and understood by literate Christians everywhere), where we are coming from as members of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and why we believe that it is the same Jesus from the New Testament who visited the New World.
The Book of Mormon speaks unmistakably about Jesus Christ. Anyone who has read the Book of Mormon (if only casually) can tell that the Jesus of the Book of Mormon is the same Jesus of Nazareth who ministered to the Jews of Israel.
I know that Jesus suffered and died to save us from sin and death. He was resurrected and lives! He is my Savior, friend, and master.
Report Post »brian8793
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:48amChristians are just scared of Romney being President because there will be a lot of Mormon converts and that will take away from their business. These mega Pastor’s make MILLIONS.
Mormons make NOTHING.
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:58amThats right.. every job held in our church is done freely.. We give of our time and talents for free.. there is no passing the plate to pay a pastor.. we do pay 10% tithing and we pay a fast offering.. the fast offering money is to help our poor.. the tithing builds churches and temples.. I know without a doubt the church is true! That Jesus is my Savior..and God is our Father!
Report Post »Lambo
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:45amI don‘t understand when people say that Mormons aren’t Christian… the church is called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
http://mormon.org/faq/#About+Mormons|question=/faq/mormon-christian/
http://www.youtube.com/user/MormonMessages#p/search/7/GACIAgjUJlg
Looks pretty christian to me.
Report Post »Doulos7608
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:47amThey are also polytheists, denying the virgin birth, believing that spirits come into existence as a result of sexual union between the Mormon God and his goddess wife, believing that faithful Mormons become gods after death, believing that Satan and Jesus are brothers, believing that God the Father was once a man who became a god after a lifetime of faithful service to the god above him, and believing that after the war in heaven, those spirits who chose no side in the fight between Mormon God and Mormon Satan were punished with black skin when they were born in human bodies.
Mormons are not Christians. It isn’t anything to get mad about. It’s just the fact of the matter; they aren’t Christians, according to Church history and the doctrines taught in the Scriptures.
Report Post »Tammy_Beth
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:04amI have nothing against Mormons, or against Romney’s faith in that religion. But the reason some evangelical churches, particularly Baptists, call it a “cult” (which, IMO, is far too harsh a label since cults are usually built around a charismatic living figure such as Jim Jones or David Koresh) is not a political or cultural question but a theological one.
for one who’s serious about their theology, the whole structure rests on the question of how one is reconciled to god, and flowing from that, “Who was Jesus Christ?”
Orthodox Christianity has a specific position on that and if you diverge from it far enough, you are…something else. of course, that position rests on the premise that the orthodox position is the correct one – but it’s hardly unique to Baptists to assume they have the proper understanding of Biblical theology. I’m reasonably sure that a similar divide has over the centuries existed between Catholicism and protestantism
I do, however, have more than a little discomfort with the apparent VERY close association with religion and politics at that conference. To have a series of ministers get up and say, essentially, if you are a good Christian you will vote for this guy” is a pretty dangerous trend. Better to preach on the issues which are properly the realm of the faith and leave the endorsements for the individual believer to make. IMO.
Report Post »SpiderPig
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:51amI find the debate about Mormons being Christian to be quite paltry. Cmon, what is a Christian? Who set’s the terms of how a Christian is defined? Frankly, isn‘t the term Christian just man’s way of defining a follower of Christ? If one wants to say that I am not Christian because I belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that is there prerogative. I am a firm believer in Christ, and try hard everyday to live the best I can in accordance to his teachings and example. I don’t need to be called “Christian” by man to know where I stand with Christ. Don’t we have better things to discuss?
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 11:35pmDOULOS7608
We do believe that spirit children are created but there is no teaching that this is done by sexual union. We do believe that Satan and all the fallen angels, all mankind, and all the spirits that have yet to be born are all spirit children of God the Father.
Hebrews 1 and the rest of the New Testament makes it pretty clear that God the Father is the Father of Jesus. Hebrews Chpt 1 (1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;). Christ made the world while he was a spirit. If he is God’s son and all the other angels, including fallen angles (Satan) were created by God also, then of course they would be spiritual brothers.
What does Hebrews 12:9 mean (Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?)? It means that the Father is the Father of our spirits. He is the Father of Jesus Christ’s spirit also (Christ called him Father about a million times in the Bible).
In Romans 8:16-17 (16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.) it says that we are the
Report Post »blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 11:36pmDOULOS7608
Report Post »We do believe that spirit children are created but there is no teaching that this is done by sexual union. We do believe that Satan and all the fallen angels, all mankind, and all the spirits that have yet to be born are all spirit children of God the Father.
Hebrews 1 and the rest of the New Testament makes it pretty clear that God the Father is the Father of Jesus. Hebrews Chpt 1 (1 GOD, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, 2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;). Christ made the world while he was a spirit. If he is God’s son and all the other angels, including fallen angles (Satan) were created by God also, then of course they would be spiritual brothers.
What does Hebrews 12:9 mean (Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?)? It means that the Father is the Father of our spirits. He is the Father of Jesus Christ’s spirit also (Christ called him Father about a million times in the Bible).
blamb61
Posted on October 9, 2011 at 11:37pmIn Romans 8:16-17 (16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.) it says that we are the children of God and that we can be joint heirs with Christ. That alludes to us having all that the Father has and becoming like him. It also alludes that Christ is an heir of the Father also!
We believe everyone that came to this earth to be born chose to follow Christ in the pre-existence (including blacks) and that the ones who didn’t chose to follow him became the Devil and his angles.
You are stating a lot of false things about the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – Mormons.
We are very much Christians as taught in the scriptures.
Report Post »The_Monsoon
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:34amI’m glad Perry answered the way he did… There‘s something I don’t understand about this though. Why do Baptists hate Mormons? This isn’t the the first time I have heard a Baptist going crazy over Mormons. I know a lot of Mormons, most of them are nicer than you can stand and they love Jesus. The name of their church, “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”; How can you say they don’t beleive? You guys and gals that say you won’t vote for a Mormon, I guess you would rather have someone that went to Jeremiah Wright’s Black Liberation Theology church instead? I don’t get it; if Romney gets the nomination – I’m voting for him!
Report Post »Larry Sheldon
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:44amWhy do Baptists hate Christians?
Have Mormons ever desecrated a soldier’s funeral?
Report Post »Ditto Head
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:57amI’ll take this one. As a Baptist, I can authoritatively say that your assertion that Baptists hate mormons is false, and is, in and of itself, a hateful statement. I do not hate Mormons. I hate their sick religion, but I do not hate the people themselves. I’ve always lived in areas with high Mormon populations. I know a lot of them. I have good friends who are Mormon.
Concerning the word “cult”, people throw that word around way too carelessly. I’m in a cult. A Baptist cult. Also a football cult, and a professional cult. The word inherently means CULTURE. Every one in the world is in some sort of cult. The problem with the Mormon church is that is is OCCULTIC, i.e., secretive. They do and say secret things in their temples. That is antichrist. The Mormon religion is so obviously false, that I actually feel sorry for people who believe in it. It’s hard to hate the pitiful.
Report Post »jcannon98188
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 2:48am@Ditto Head.
That one specific translation you referenced for the scripture is rather confusing. Lets look at other translations offered by that same website.
“Jesus made answer, I said things openly to the world at all times; I have given my teaching in the Synagogues and in the Temple to which all the Jews come; and I have said nothing secretly.” (Basic English Bible)
Now I simply chose this translation, because it is, as the name suggests, in Basic (or plain) English. Now looking at that scripture there, you can clearly see that Jesus was saying that he taught in TEMPLES, where the Jews (Or Mormons in this case) came, and I have said nothing secretly. Now I imagine that you are getting tripped up over that “secretly” part there. Alone it is condemning of the Mormon faith. But in the full sentence, he clearly states that while he teaches in the temple, he held no secrets from them.
Further more, we have those “secrets” because they are sacred to us. The way I see it, is even if you knew what happened in the temple, you would not believe in our faith. The fact of the matter is, if you truly were ready to understand why we do the things we do, then you would already be a member of the church, and going through the temple yourself.
Report Post »windwalker
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:01amDitto Head you answered like so many bigoted Baptist. In all my years as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints the one religion the proves they are bigoted against the Mormon Church is the Baptist. They openly lie about Mormons by using anti-Mormon literature. I was invited by a pastor of your church a few years back and when I got to their church all they did was mock me and treat me with such disrespect. I know not all Baptists are like this but unfortunately far too many are. Why not follow Christ and love those not of your faith, and stop bearing false witness.
Report Post »Lux
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:02amIsn’t the name of our church The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints? Do we not worship Christ? Is not the Book of Mormon another testament of Jesus Christ? How could anyone seriously doubt that Latter-day Saints are Christians?
There are a number of arguments used supposedly to “prove” that we are not Christian. It is important to recognize that none of them have anything to do with whether or not Latter-day Saints believe in Jesus Christ. Rather, what they basically boil down to is this: Latter-day Saints are different from the other Christian churches. (We understand that these differences exist because traditional Christianity has wandered from the truth over the centuries, but other denominations see things otherwise.) Their arguments against the Latter-day Saints being Christian generally fall into six basic categories:
1. Exclusion by special definition
Report Post »2. Exclusion by misrepresentation
3. Name calling
4. Exclusion by tradition
5. The canonical or biblical exclusion
6. The doctrinal exclusion.
Lux
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:03amcont…
Notice that not one of these addresses the question of whether we accept Jesus Christ as the divine Son of God and Savior. Our critics don’t address this—the only issue that really matters—for the LDS position here is an unassailable matter of record. Our first article of faith (A of F 1:1 http://lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.1?lang=eng#0 ) declares our belief in Jesus Christ. We meet every Sunday and partake of the sacrament to renew our faith in and our commitment to Him as the Son of God and the Savior of the world.
I have frequently asked non-LDS critics exactly which Book of Mormon teachings about Jesus Christ they disagree with. Invariably the response has been that it isn’t what the Book of Mormon says that is offensive to them—it is the Book of Mormon itself. Most anti-Mormons reject the LDS scriptures without knowing or caring what those scriptures actually teach about Christ. You see, it isn’t really the LDS doctrine of Christ that is objectionable; rather, it is the claim that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, that the Book of Mormon is God’s word, and that the gospel has been restored to the earth in the latter days.
cont..
Report Post »Lux
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:03amcont…
Both the Book of Mormon as scripture and Joseph Smith as a prophet bear witness to Jesus Christ as Savior. The Doctrine and Covenants and Pearl of Great Price bear that same great witness, as do all of the modern prophets and apostles. Though all the world may say that Latter-day Saints do not know or love or worship Jesus Christ, the truth is that we do. If this is not enough to be counted as Christian, then that word has lost its meaning.
Report Post »READRIGHTHERE
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 3:49amI could be wrong, but on a psychological level it makes sense to me. Baptists were famous for their version of baptism, namely a full dunking in the water. They cornered the market so to speak. Then along comes this upstart religion by a hick farmer preaching baptism by full immersion in water, too. Then it became a competition issue. Unfortunately it is one sided. Mormons don’t want to compete, they just want to seek God according to the dictates of their own conscience and allow all others the same privilege. They believe in a loving Father who sent His only begotten Son to save the world from an eternity of separation from Him, they live and preach John 3:16.
The only Mormon doctrine anyone in this country will have to tolerate if Mitt Romney becomes POTUS is he has been taught to see the people of the world as Heavenly Father’s children, brothers and sisters all, no matter their cultural, religious or ethnic differences.
I was pleased to see the evidence that a majority of people in this country were able to overcome centuries of bigotry and cast their vote for Obama, even if I emphatically disagreed with the choice and have been dismayed at the damage he has caused in so little time. I hope, If Romney survives the primary process and the bigotry still extant within the Republican party and gets the nod, that America will show the world again that petty differences do not matter and that the content of one’s character is our only concern.
Romney&Cain 2012
Report Post »Chet Hempstead
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 6:29amLarry Sheldon Have Mormons ever desecrated a soldier’s funeral?
Now that’s just wrong. I’m not a Baptist. I think there are some legitimate grounds to criticize some of the Baptist denominations in this country. However, the Westboro Baptist Church, unlike the Mormons, are a cult. They are not affiliated with any major Baptist denomination, and no legitimate Baptist Church has ever endorsed their actions. It is wrong to slander the generally good people who go to real Baptist churches just because they can’t stop these goons from calling themselves Baptists.
Report Post »angry nerd
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:31amAmazing, I know nothing of the mormon religion but I have yet to see one blow up a plane or do something really crazy. Not very accepting are you.
Report Post »What would he consider Obama?
vivrobbins
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 4:20pmRead Morman history, as with many different sects, Mormons have their ugly times.
Report Post »LoveBringsTruth
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:30amMy grandparents are mormon and they follow the teachings of jesus far more then any christian I have ever met. They’re the most generous, kind, loving, gracious and thankful people I have ever met. And no doubt their prayers have worked miracles in my life at some of my lowest points. Sounds like we have another jim wallice christian. I think we all know Perry and Romney are both new world order sellouts with zero backbone. They’re slaves to satan.
Report Post »abbygirl1994
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:29amWow.. you were at the top.. not you are down there.. you want to educate the illegal.. you think SS is a ponzi scheme.. you have a hunting camp that was called N—-r Head,, and now once again your having to apologize for another mess.. now this one didn’t come directly from you.. but I wonder what you really think… but I will give you the benefit of the doubt.. and tell you I appreciate you apologizing for the wicked remark about Mitts religion and mine and millions of others.. I just wonder if you are really sincere???
Report Post »Chuck Stein
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:44amDon’t spend too much time wondering. If you were in the same situation as Perry, you would know the history of Jeffress. Would you still have him introduce you? Also, Perry got a real softball question. You don’t expose a politicain by asking if “Mormonism is a cult?” — too aburd a postulate. Too easy to just say “No.“ The real question to ask a politician is ”Are Mormons Christian?” Then they either have to offend bigoted supporters (with the honest answer: “yes”) or look bigoted themselves (with the wierd answer “no”). (Now watch as the haters respond)
Report Post »RationalMan
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:29amWhy Perry do you want to attack on a cult? How about your cult????
This is a “PERSONAL” attack in my book!!!!
Stick to, what this Country wants, Founded on, “LIFE, LIBERTY and PURSUIT of HAPPINESS”!!!
For “Everybody” not “Kings and Queens”!!!
Report Post »tkrnstr
Posted on October 8, 2011 at 1:40amDid you even read the article ? Rick Perry didn’t say anything besides disagree with the pastor who said things about mormonism.
For me, I see them as Christians. They accept Jesus, they obviously have some different beliefs than other christains. However, so do Catholics, Protestants, and other Christian denominations. Some differ more than others but each one differs and they all should be considered Christians. All of them are none of them are Christians…
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