Police Chaplains Banned From Praying in Jesus’ Name at Public Events
- Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:45pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Volunteer chaplains in the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Department have been banned from using Jesus’ name during prayers that are uttered during public events.
Rather than serving as a discriminatory practice, the new policy is intended — at least according to Major John Diggs who oversees the chaplain program — as an effort to respect people of all faiths.
“[It's a] matter of respecting that people may have different faiths and that it is not aimed at any one religion or denomination,” Diggs told WSOC-TV.
But while Diggs claims that the decision is rooted in not offending non-Christians and that it is not geared toward any particular denomination, some are voicing their disapproval. Take, for instance, Pastor Terry Sartain, who is the senior faith leader at Horizon Christian Fellowship and who has been a chaplain with the police department for seven years.
Sartain was scheduled to speak recently at a government event where he planned, as per usual, to use Jesus’ name in his invocation. Just before the event, he received a phone call informing him of the new-found ban. Naturally, he was saddened and made the decision not to attend the event.
Image Credit: WSOC-TV
“When I heard this I was sad,” he explained. ”I asked if I could withdraw, because Jesus is the only thing I have to bless people with.”
In the end, the pastor was told that his decision not to attend and pray at the event will hurt his standing as a chaplain. Despite this incident, Sartain pledges to stay with the ministry, as he believes his work with the police officers is important. That being said, he has asked to have his name removed from the roster of individuals who would offer up public prayers at local events.
Despite some protesting, some, like Jim Groquist, a former Methodist minister and a lawyer and member of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), are elated.
“It’s improper to mix up religion with the function of state agents, and as long as they’re state agents, they should not be able to do that,” he proclaimed after learning of the news.
(H/T: Fox News Radio)
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Comments (308)
jakartaman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:25pmIts coming
Report Post »This nation is morally/spiritually and financially bankrupt
SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:18pmYes it is. God said “do not cast your pearls before swine.” He meant you and your ilk.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:14pmthank you SLOWBIDEN. that’s a very kind and Christian thing to say.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:37pmBeing kind doesn’t mean just giving you everything you want like you little brats demand all the time.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:14pmJim Gronquist (with an “n”) is a rabid Socialist who threw a tantrum when Anwar al-Awlaki was killed by an “illegal” drone strike. In other words….. He is not only against Jesus Christ, he is against America. In short – he is a typical ACLU piece of garbage.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:29pmSo it’s anti-American to disagree with the president? I assume that you are all on-board with health-care reform–if not, you’re against America!
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:32pmTHIS is DIRECTED TO ALL ACLU BULLIES; ALL ATHEISTS: Keep it up ! The more you spout your venom, the more everyday Americans (also known as “THE TEA PARTY), are becoming aware of your
Report Post »sick, rabid, hysterical actions geared to hurt AMERICA.
There are a handful of reasons why you kooks want to hurt America, most of them funded by slugs like George Soros who hope we’ll drop like an apple that he can buy up for 10 cents on the dollar (the parts he’s not stealing) ; others are Atheists because 1) they were brainwashed by the Communist plant teachers sent to USA in 50′s and grew like weeds until today they are a large part of our educators population; 2) They personally are so prideful and arrogant (probably hiding a great feeling of inadequacy) that they refuse to accept the Salvation offered by Jesus. They live this life – living barely – they have no clue about why they are here; why they were created and they miss the entire trip. They are like the proverbial ROTTEN APPLE.
NOW HEAR THIS YOU ANTI-AMERICAN ATHEISTS: We’ve had enough of you demonic creeps. WE are going to STAND UP with every TOWN you try to BULLY into taking down 90+ year old Memorial Crosses; WE are going to call you sicko’s every time you try to diss THE CREATOR OF THE UNIVERSE. DO you have any idea how strong and powerful the ENTITY who created this UNIVERSE is? WE do have the freedom of Choice. NOW I choose to pursue you. You’re lies, hatred are not going unchallenged!! Join me
phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:41pm“DO you have any idea how strong and powerful the ENTITY who created this UNIVERSE is?”
so powerful that he can now appear on toast or on a milldewy shower. that‘s the kind of power you just can’t buy.
your whole post is ridiculous, and it had me laughing all the way through it. you are a conspiracy theorist, and you have no clue about what you speak of regarding Atheists. you are living proof that Intelligent Design is hogwash.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:10pmYou poor pathetic: You believe in something exploding billions of years ago and somehow here we are, the only known life in a huge Universe, and we somehow developed the capacity to LOVE, a soul, a knowledge of good and evil. You poor pathetic silly person.
Report Post »YOU attack everything decent, why? What’s it to you – if you don’t believe in any of it – what do you care? YOU Care, duffus because you are controlled by evil. WE know that. WE will not let you control us.
phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:18pmmy bad PATTY. i try my best not to talk to insane people, but sometimes it happens by accident. now i know who i’m dealing with and i will attempt to stop addressing you.
oh, you need to work on your language skills. it should be “you poor, pathetic _______”. otherwise the sentence falls flat and is as nonsensical as your delusional rants.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:13pm@ Patty Henry …. Thank you for your wonderful, powerful, Christian posts! You have reminded me of that awesome hymn, “Onward Christian Soldiers.” The demons kicking and screaming throughout this comment section are greatly annoyed. While we sing praises and rejoice in Him, they kick and scream. That’s good.
“Onward Christian Soldier, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus, going on before.
Christ, the Royal Master, LEADS against the foe;
Forward into battle, see His banners go!
Onward Christian Soldiers, marching as to war,
With the cross of Jesus, going on before.”
God bless and keep you, Patty….
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:41pmI find it funny, and rather ironic, that PATTY HENRY is using the terms hysterical and venom to describe calls for chaplains to be more inclusive. Such words would be better used describing him.
PATTY — the only thing being exposed is the hatred of the far right fundamentalists.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:43pmLOVINGAMERICA — so, being against killing people without a trial or due process, based on the advice of a bureaucrat, is “anti-American”?
More proof the Right hates the Constitution as much as the Left.
Report Post »DefendGodandCountry
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:18amPhilly- your delusions are hysterical. Let me define delusion for you: A delusion is a belief held with strong conviction despite superior evidence to the contrary.
“Do you know how powerful the ENTITY that created this UNIVERSE is?”
What in the he%% are you talking about? Beam me up because obviously I need to be on your level to understand. Your posts are nothing but judgmental and degrading, and contain nothing of substance. Keep your 10 cent words, because you aren‘t fooling anyone with your google’d vocabulary.
Report Post »cactusren
Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:27pm@ Patty Henry
I doubt this will change your mind about anything, so this post is really aimed more at others who might be reading. I simply felt the need to post a bit of an antidote to your hateful screed.
I am an atheist. It’s not something I was indoctrinated into: it’s a conclusion I came to on my own after a lot of studying, thinking, and reading the Bible and other religious texts. Nor am I particularly arrogant–I know that there is a lot about this Universe that I don’t know. Therefore, I hold all my knowledge to be provisional–in the light of new evidence about something, I am willing to change my mind. I simply haven’t found anything yet that indicates to me that the Abrahamic God is any more real than Ahura-Mazda or Zeus.
I have no problem with people practicing their own religion. The point you seem to be missing here is that these are functions being performed by the state. When an appointed official of the state prays in Jesus’ name, they are endorsing Christianity. All secular people are asking for is that the government not endorse one religion over another. If you really need the government to endorse your particular religion, and especially when you get so worked up over it not doing so, it just makes it look like your faith is so weak that you can’t hold it up by yourself, but need everyone around you to agree.
Report Post »cactusren
Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:38pmOh, and I need to respond to this, too: Patty Henry said “YOU attack everything decent, why? What’s it to you – if you don’t believe in any of it – what do you care?”
I care because every day in this country, women in abusive relationships are told not to leave, because the Lord would not give them more than they can handle, and divorce is a sin. Every day in this country, children are disowned by their parents for being gay, because religion says being gay is wrong. Every day in this country, children are told not to question authority or the Bible, and their creativity and sense of wonder about this world are quashed. Because my Hindu and Buddhist friends are told they’re going to hell. Because I‘m told I’m going to hell. Because children who misbehave are told they’re going to hell.
I don’t care about your religion. I care about the terrible things people do in the name of religion.
Report Post »Prepare for the 2nd Coming
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:09pmAny chaplain who claims to be Christian would NEVER comply with this. If so, it’s the worst cowardice imagineable!
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:49pmRight!
Report Post »Mandors
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:06pm“Diggs claims that the decision is rooted in not offending non-Christians and that it is not geared toward any particular denomination”
When you take God out of the equations, you are free to lie.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:30pmNo, you’re not. And, given the fact that the comment was about the intent of the law, you have absolutely no grounds to suspect he was lying.
Doesn’t your religion teach you not to falsely accuse people of lying?
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:28pmWhy are they praying at all. Seems like a waste of time to me. Who the hell are they praying to anyway? I know why go ahead and pray to Zeus, he’ll fix things right up.
Report Post »DefendGodandCountry
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:25amHoneyBadger- We aren’t Grecian, so why would we pray to Zeus? We are Christians and we pray to God and son, Jesus. Don’t you believe in spirituality? Ever seen a ghost, heard a story about ghastly apparitions? Explain that. Im assuming you think we all just lay in a grave and rot? Or get to kick it with a couple of martian CEO‘s and COO’s? Have you seen a dead body at a funeral……the life just sucked right out? Where did it go: Mars?
Answer this question. What is the harm in believing in such a positive belief? Believe in God, reap the benefits. 100% return on your investment. Ever been to church and left feeling good? I have. Can you explain that…..a good warm feeling. Don’t come to Texas talking that trash. We don’t put up with it!
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 5:03pmDefendGodandCountry dont get all butt hurt over a joke. hahaha. Relax, take some B6, chill out. I was just saying that if he prayed to anyone else, he wouldn’t be in this situation.
Report Post »yanki161
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:06pmI will not comply.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:08pmI don’t think anyone was asking you to do anything, so your comment makes no sense.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:10pmare you a Police chaplain? otherwise, you don’t have to comply.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:36pmYANKI161…………Eventually all Christians will be forced to make a choice of whether to comply with government orders or to stand with God and our Lord Jesus Christ. I am with you, I will never comply.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 5:12pmHaha. You’re just making up things not to comply with. That’s pretty funny. OK–I’ll play:
I refuse to comply to an imaginary government order that says I have to worship Zeus!
I refuse to comply! I’m a Freedom Fighter!
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:59pmOh Great and WISE JOR’EL.
We come before you this day
and ask that your Son Kal’EL be with us forever!
Amen lol
Report Post »kdshell1
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:04pmTo pray in any name other than Jesus Christ or the Lord God is idolatry, as is directing a prayer to no one in particular. What’s the point of praying if not to someone in particular?
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:20pmThe actual interpretation… of the Hebrew name of the Messiah is… Joshua ben Joseph… where Jesus was a Greek interpretation… and Christ is also Greek, meaning Savior!
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:44pmIn addition… In the Old Testament Book of Joshua… the name is exacltly the same… as found for the Messiah… in all languages.
Report Post »kdshell1
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:16pmAnd your point is …? The name in any other language is still the same name. Moreover, praying “in the name of” does not refer only to the literal name, but also invokes the very attributes, power and authority of that person. There’s been only one “Jesus the Christ,” the only begotten Son of God.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:08pmI see… it’s all Greek to you!
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 6:23pmkdshell1: And your point is …? The name in any other language is still the same name. Moreover, praying “in the name of” does not refer only to the literal name, but also invokes the very attributes, power and authority of that person. There’s been only one “Jesus the Christ,” the only begotten Son of God.
Its obvious that you don’t know much about word and meanings of words.
Jesus has no meaning, other than being a masculine name of the goddess of healing.
Watch, I’ll show you.
Let’s understand some Greek words:
Iasis: Definition: A Healing, Cure. (Parts of Speech – Noun Feminine)
Iaso (also spelled Ieso): Greek Goddess of Recuperation from Illness (Healing)
Iasous (Iesous) is the Masculine form of Iaso (Ieso)
Iesous (Greek) – Read that, Greek
Iesus (Latin) – Read that, Latin
Jesus (English) – Read that, Oh yeah, English.
The Hebrew Messiah was never called Jesus. His mother called him Yahoshua, if you want to be really technically. Remember, a mind is a terrible thing to waste. Yahoshua mean “Salvation of Yahuah”. If anyone has a problem with that, haha, it’s on your indoctrinated mind.
The diciples who did follow “The Anointed One”, never called themselves Christians. It was the Roman pagans and other pagan peoples of Antioch that called the followers of “The Anointed One” the name of “Christianos”. The Hebrews that believed in the “Anointed One” never called him “CHRIST”, nor did they call themselves “Christi
Report Post »kdshell1
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 7:01amHoneybager7×7, do you really believe the garbage you spewed? There is NO goddess (or god) of anything, only the Almighty Lord God (the English translation) creator of Heaven and earth. Any other “god” or “goddess” is man-made wishology. You obviously didn’t read or understand what I said. The name “Jesus” is only the English translation (of the one who saves), just as Christ is the English version of Christos (from which the heathen made the derogatory “christian” which the believers turned into a badge of honor) or Messiah, meaning the Anointed One. So “Jesus Christ” refers to Jesus the Christ (the name and title also used by the Apostle Paul), the only begotten Son and Anointed One of Almighty God, sent by Him to save all mankind from their sins and sinful ways and bring whosoever wills to God.
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 3:31pmIt’s not what I believe, its what I researched.
kdshell1: You obviously didn’t read or understand what I said. The name “Jesus” is only the English translation (of the one who saves).
What you fail to understand that the J was invented only 500 years ago!!!. So Before the J was on Jesus it was the “Iesus”, which is the Case in LATIN, and before the Latin it was “Iesous”, in the GREEK, are you following this timeline. Like I said before, Heysoos (Je’sus) has nothing the Hebrew Yahoshua. Of all the names that were in the Torah and put together in the Bible that where “supposedly” translated, the Hebrew Messiah is the only one walking around with a weak-ass Greek Name. Now I find that Hilarious hahaha.
kdshell1: just as Christ is the English version of Christos.
You dont know do you, The Hebrew Word is – “HaMashiyach” which means “The Anointed One”. Lets go deeper into this – the term “Messiah” is a transliteration of a Hebrew adjective meaning “anointed”. However, it is more often used as a proper noun, such as “THE ANOINTED ONE”. The name “MESSIAS” is a Greek transliteration of “Mashiyach”. It would NOT have resulted in “CHRISTOS” which sounds way different than “MASHIYACH”. The same goes for this first name lol.
Report Post »HoneyBager7x7
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 3:34pmkdshell1: heathen made the derogatory “christian” which the believers turned into a badge of honor)
The title or label of “Christian” is derogatory, where have you been. I don‘t understand why you want me to accept a dumbass concept that Jospeh and Mary’s last name was Christ, and that they had a bright idea and called him a GREEK name, are you serious!? haha
Jesus does not fit into anything Hebrew. Lol, the name Jesous (Iesous) is of GREEK ORIGIN.
Mary = Miriam, Jospeh = Yoseph, why would these two young HEBREWS, Living in the HEBREW CULTURE, name their son, the HEBREW Messiah, with a GREEK NAME. LOL..Sure, I‘ll believe that when Transexual Donkey’s fly Gundams from MARS!.
You don’t understand that all these words and meanings are from the HEBREW Tongue and HEBREW Concepts. His mother called him Yahoshua and he was a HEBREW with a AFRO!
I’m sure GAWD loved the GREEK Language so much, that he just went head over heels for the name Iesous (JESUS)!. Haha, give me a break.
Report Post »fixer
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:02pmmaybe it’s about time for us Christian Soldiers to rise up and put an end to the evil that has spread through this administration and across this land.The Tree of Liberty occasionally needs to be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:05pmso you’re ready for civil war over this? interesting.
but you’re pro-life, right?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:05pmYes–I am sure that Jefferson was talking about violent religious fanatics…
Report Post »drkmagneto
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:05pmAmen to that! Who do we start with?
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:12pmFixer………I agree that we Christians need to start standing up to the atheist bullying. We have let them get the upper hand because we have been too passive in the face of great evil.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:00pm@philly — Death in war is not murder. It is justified by the Bible. So schmarmy schmarmy schmarmy. You are self absorbed.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:12pmSLOW – who said anything about murder? i said pro-life, i didn’t mention murder once. i’m glad your book justifies it though. good book my @ss.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:31pmYou were comparing WAR with pro life. You know what you were getting at don’t act dense.
Report Post »NineteenEighty4
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:44pmThat’s adorable.
Report Post »alinmatt
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 5:30pmGreat, more killing in the name of _____. Fill in the blank.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 8:08pm@ALIN…
And… your problem with our Predator Species… where we Hunt & Kill and Fight & War… IS?
Did you not know? Each Human…. perceives Good via one’s own Self Interpretation: We are not Angels… nor Perfect… nor Totally Rational… nor Designed to Agree!
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:46pmSo, more proof the “good” Christians in this thread do not believe in the Constitution.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:39pmBruce – No, it‘s you Marxist atheists who don’t believe in the Constitution. Police chaplains have every right to pray wherever they want to and they don’t need your approval.
Report Post »Cape_Lookout_RW_Extremist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:01pmLady Liberty’s motto: “Welcome to Hell”
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:10pmSo sorry you feel that America is hell because a volunteer police chaplain in some town can’t sell Jesus in the name of the government.
Boo hoo.
Report Post »NewLife56
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:01pmSo now Christians are the only group that doesn’t have freedom of speech. Thanks Obama
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:06pmlol, i’m pretty certain that you still have freedom of speech. and this has nothing to do with Obama.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:07pmFreedom of speech is an individual right, and has nothing to do with speaking on behalf of a government institution. Plain and simple–get it?
Report Post »DefendGodandCountry
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:03amCorrect! Obama holds a natioinal day of prayer for Muslims, but proclaims that we are no longer a Christian nation. You loud mouths: Philly, etc. are obviously lacking intelligence and simply argue for the sake of the argument. We are a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles (In God We Trust)…..if you don’t like that, leave! Easy as that. We don’t want you here. Join some other country that doesn’t care. We do. We don’t like you talking about our Lord and Savior, nor will we ever. One of these days, we will find out just how tough you all are…..just how set in your beliefs you all are. That day will come……see you then!
Report Post »cactusren
Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:52pm“We are a Christian nation, founded on Christian principles (In God We Trust)…..”
You do realize that “In God We Trust” was only adopted as the motto of the US in 1956, right? So using that as evidence that the nation was founded on Christian principles is completely nonsensical.
By the way, what exactly are these “Christian Principles” that our nation was founded on? Please point me to any reference to Jesus’ name or biblical laws/references in the Constitution. Thanks!
Report Post »Bryan B
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:00pmThis has been going on for a few years now, most Police Chaplains are not even allowed to wear Department Uniforms. Most Law Enforcement Agencies have done away with the Chaplain Services all together.
Pray for Jett………
Report Post »I SPY
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:58pmThis is absolute cowardess bull ****!
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:08pmAs cowardly as anonymously posting whiney complaints on a message board where you know everyone will agree with you anyway?
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:57pm“Jim Groquist, a former Methodist minister and a lawyer and member of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) are elated….”
Me dice todo con esas palabras…. They are followers of satan y nada mas.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:16pmYes Kick, they are followers of Satan and antichrist.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:55pmThe ACLU guy says: ““It’s improper to mix up religion with the function of state agents” Then why have prayer at all? Praying to God is a religious act. I guess that will be the next step.
Report Post »CatB
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:16pmYes .. sadly … it is a progression
Report Post »Cavallo
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:32pmOf course it is. Atheism is the official religion of the vast majority of centralized autocratic Marxist States. You cannot have the enforcers of the State will having their loyalty divided from their allegiance to the State.
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:19pmGonzo, I believe the ultimate goal of these atheists is to have the mere mention of God and Jesus Christ removed from America. I also believe this is Biblical but that does not mean we Christians should just lay down like rugs to be walked on by the godless.
Report Post »cactusren
Posted on June 29, 2012 at 5:58pmI can’t speak for all atheists, but I’ll speak for myself. I don’t want all mention of God removed from this country, I just don’t want the government telling me what to believe. Pray all you want in church, at home, or out in public! Just so long as you’re doing that as an individual, not as a representative of the state. That’s all I want.
Report Post »welovetheUSA
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:55pmInteresting how this president has been working to stop all American values no matter where, when or how……….get him out of our White House.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:00pmhow does this have anything to do with the Prez?
Report Post »piper60
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:55pmJim Groquist is not a Christian pastor, clearly.
Report Post »kickagrandma
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:52pmThat is so much bull shite!
We follow JESUS CHRIST or we follow satan. There is NO in between.
Report Post »Either we are GOD’s child or we are his enemy. Which are we?
Which are you?
phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:56pmi’m neither. i can’t be an enemy to the non-existent.
Report Post »AmazingGrace8
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:24pm@philly
You are correct in your belief system. We believers, that have received/accepted God’s Grace & Mercy, know it is “A GIFT” and cannot be earned.
Report Post »Have a good day!
phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:32pmAMAZING – i was given that “gift”. i unwrapped it and found it to be a turd in a box, so i rejected it.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:02pm@philly scmarmy scmarmy schmary you are self absorbed
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:19pmenjoying your word of the day much? geez.
when all else fails, result to personal attacks. it doesn‘t mean much when you don’t know someone, you know.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:52pmSLOWBIDEN — so, let’s get this straight…
PHILLYATHEIST doesn’t believe in God, end of story. You, however, believe you are saved through the Son of God, and therefore have not only a direct line to the Almighty through your prayers, but when the end comes, you will be spirited to Heaven and anyone who disagrees with you will burn in Hell.
And yet, somehow, PHILLYATHEIST is the one who is self-absorbed?
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:52pmsomehow i think that Jesus would understand.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:08pmI love how “philly Atheist” only pops up on these religious stories, then claims he doesn’t care what other people believe. If that was so, philly, why do you spend so much time arguing with people that you think are wrong. Could it be you just need a little attention. Ok, you are a moron. Feel better now?
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:16pmthat’s why i come to the Blaze. i don’t come here for actual news. as an Atheist i’m very interested in the religious ongoings in America.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:20pmSo you can sit here in judgement of others. I understand.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:25pmyes. at least i’m not going against my faith in order to do it, unlike just about everyone who comments on this site.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:28pmYou didn’t go against your faith in nothing? That makes about as much sense as a blue nosed beaver.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:34pmi think you misunderstood what i was saying. Christians have this “do not judge. lest you be judged” doctrine. i have no such doctrine, so i’m not being a hypocrite by judging, unlike many Christian posters.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:43pmNo I didn’t misunderstand. You see I’m not judging you when I say you are self absorbed and have nothing else to do but come on this site and ridicule people because of their faith. It’s your type of attitude that made people come to America to begin with ie. religous persecution. If you spent more time trying to understand people’s faith and less time trying to degrade them because of it than you might find some actual “faith” yourself. Or don‘t I don’t really care. Because you see, unlike you, I truely don‘t judge or ridicule other people’s faith or lack there of. Untill their faith threatens my life. i.e. Muslims., who‘s kuran says if you don’t share their beliefs you should die.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:50pm“You see I’m not judging you when I say you are self absorbed and have nothing else to do but come on this site and ridicule people because of their faith.”
that IS a judgment. other than that, i’m fine with everything else you said.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:01pmthat’s not a judgement Philly, unless you consider a FACT to be a judgement. Like the sky is blue. Did I just judge the sky for being blue? No , I just call it as I see it
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:05pmso it‘s a fact that i’m self-absorbed? pray tell, how do you KNOW this to be true? no, you are making a judgment, which is fine, IMO. just don’t deny it.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:14pmYour comments and schmarmy remarks show that you are self absorbed Philly. In other words your slip is showing. It‘s easy to see just like it’s easy to see the sky is blue.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:21pmthis is a big problem with the Religious – you don’t know what the word fact means. just like you think it’s a fact that God exists. it’s a belief, just like your belief that i’m self-absorbed.
have a good day.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:52pmDo we need a new country? or maybe stand up for the one we have?.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:57pmgood idea. take Texas, Arkansas, Kansas, Arizona, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Missouri and call it Jesusland. problem solved.
Report Post »Cavallo
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:15pmWe want Oklahoma and Nebraska as well.
Report Post »phillyatheist
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:18pmfine, take them. am i missing any others? maybe make Utah it‘s own country while we’re at it. :)
Report Post »Cavallo
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:29pmActually, in any logical division it would probably need to be Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida, South Carolina, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Missouri, Kansas, Nebraska, and maybe Tennessee, and Kentucky. If Arizona is along for the ride, New Mexico would need to come as well. A division of land is logically untenable that way. Likely the rest of the country would also have to divide, as the North East/North becomes a country and the West/Central North becomes a country. So the Former United States becomes three separate countries. Separate Militaries, Separate Governments, and likely a NAFTA like or Eurozone trade agreement.
Report Post »calyptratus
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:52pmTHX1138 lives
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:11pmI‘m pretty sure you didn’t actually pay attention to the film if you are trying to make this comparison.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:52pmIt will be up to those in attendance to add, “In Jesus name we pray” at the end of the prayers. And say it loudly for all to hear. Jesus’ name cannot be eliminated from public prayers unless everyone gives up and allows themselves to be bullied into submission. The only power they can take is the power we allow them to take away. IN JESUS NAME WE PRAY – Amen.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:13pmNo one is challenging YOUR right to pray to Jesus in any way, so why would you deliberately say it loudly just to annoy people? Is your only goal to make people who don’t share your beliefs uncomfortable? That doesn’t sound too neighborly…
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:26pmLOVINGAMERICA………..I agree. Say it loud and then even louder………In Jesus’ Holy Name I Pray, Amen.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 4:43pm@ MOMRULES… Amen and God bless you!
Report Post »alinmatt
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 5:43pm@lovingamerica, go for it. The issue isn’t whether or not YOU have the right to, it‘s public officials acting in their official public positions that don’t. Those public officials have the right to as well, just not when representing the state.
Report Post »LovingAmerica
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:48pmAlinmatt…. Nowhere in our Constitution does it mention anything whatsoever about the “separation of church and state.” That sentence is a fictional argument being used successfully to attack Christians everywhere, from schools, to courthouses, to football games, and board meetings. Our Constitution grants every American citizen the rights, the freedom and liberty to express fully their own religion without the threat of persecution. We have the right to live our lives freely as Christians without constant, ongoing attacks from aggressive, hate-filled atheists or anyone else who pretends to be offended. Every single government public official, if they so desire to do so, should NOT COMPLY with the false laws issued from atheist judges and speak the name of Jesus Christ whenever and wherever they so choose. The war against Christianity is about to come to a head.
Report Post »1amus9
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 4:20amWe are all on a spiritual journey of our own through this life. Everyone comes to truth, or doesn’t, in their own way and in their own time. I as a believer and follower of the Savior who is now widely known as Jesus Christ (regardless of the spelling or pronunciation during the time of his earthly ministry). As such, I would say that I would rather try to live by quiet example of what a Christian is, but stand by my Christian convictions boldly, than to pray loudly at the street corners, as the hypocrites do. How can any of you on this thread expect to convince others of the truth by force? It has NEVER worked that way. God gave us the ability to make our own decisions for a reason, and browbeating someone into submission will never be a part of his plan. If it were, there would be no accountability, and therefore no need to live and be tested on Earth before being called up for judgement. Brothers and Sisters, I can understand your outrage at this story, but perverting the message of the Bible into one of hateful vengeance is irreconcilable with the nature of a loving creator. Please, for the sake of all of us who follow the only Begotten of the Father, take a close look at yourself and your motives through thoughtful, personal prayer and consideration before electing to represent us all on these forums.
Report Post »alinmatt
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 10:28am@lovingamerica, Jefferson wrote in a letter to the Danbury Baptists, “I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should ‘make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,’ thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.”
Report Post »In Reynolds vs. United States (1879) the Court wrote that Jefferson’s comments “may be accepted almost as an authoritative declaration of the scope and effect of the [First] Amendment.”
If there was no seperation, who’s church should the state endorse? The Mormons. The Catholics. Lutherans. Baptists. Islam. Buddhists. Judaism. Satanists.
A seperation of church and state is for the protection of all religious freedom. The state is powerful and becomes dangerous when mixed with religion. If you don’t believe me, take a look at the Spanish Inquisition. This isn’t an issue of atheism vs. Christianity. It’s an issue of protecting religious freedom. If your interested in protecting your own religious freedom you would be standing up for this.
alinmatt
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:19amI am more aware of the necessity of this than most. My dad was raised Catholic and my mom was Assembly of God, though she changed to a free will church. I went to a Catholic private school and eventually left because I was an outcast for no other reason than I was not Catholic. I was a Christian, but at that time I didn‘t know the difference between one denomination and the next and considered both Christianity. While there, I wasn’t allowed to pray before lunch, at communion I had to walk up in front of everyone, cross my arms and decline communion. That makes one real unpopular in a Catholic school. I eventually left the school for public school, where at least I was accepted.
Report Post »On the other hand, my mom ended up teaching at a Principle Approach private school at the free will church. There, praying to Mary was unacceptable, and if I claimed to be Catholic, my Christianity would have been questioned. At least at the free will church, there was more tolerance for varying beliefs.
I also participated in functions like Awana’s and a youth group with the Baptist Church, who also had different views. This became very apparent to me later when the pastor of the Baptist Church sent his kids to the private school that my mom taught at (it was a result of my interaction with both churches). Eventually the Pastors of both church’s were unable to talk (politely I might add) with each other (as a result of differing religious views) and the kids got pulled from the school.
alinmatt
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 11:27amMy point is that if we go down the road of allowing one church or another to creep into the state, it will make other members of society outcasts or worse. There are a lot of denominations within Christianity that disagree with one another and giving one group the advantage of the state leads to bad things. Beyond Christianity there are a lot of other strongly held beliefs as well.
Report Post »The words separation of church and state may not specifically be in the constitution, but our founders were well aware of the necessity of such. This country began as a result of religious persecution from state endorsed religion. That is the very purpose and function of the first amendment. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof
Having public officials, while performing their public duties, on the public dime, pray in the name of a specific religion starts crossing the line into state establishment of religion. Christians understand the importance of not crossing lines of morality. The same applies here. Let the camel put his nose under the tent and the next thing you know the whole camel is in there.
Popp40
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:50pmThis country was founded upon Christianity…sorry for all you non-believers, non-christians, and those who have issues with God. However, do some basic research and you will see this. But keep taking God out of our country and watch how quickly we fall….
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:14pmNope.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:53pmGood arguement publius..,.very strong… sarcasm
Report Post »momrules
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:28pmPOPP40……….We are falling now. Our protection from God is being removed. Time is very short now.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:42pmSorry SlowBiden, but the burden of proof doesn’t lie on me–it lies on the kook who insists that the country was “founded on Christianity.” If you do need proof, go ahead and take a look at the Establishment Clause and, for extra measure, the 1797 Treaty of Tripoli:
“As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion…”
Signed by.. wait for it… President John Adams
“not, in any sense” seems pretty decisive to me–what do you think?
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:22pm@ publius— “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other” who said it. Wait for it….. John Adams
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 3:32pm•“Separation of Church and State” is found nowhere in the Constitution?
Report Post »•The U.S. Capital Building was converted to a church every Sunday morning?
•Washington D.C.’s worship team every Sunday morning was the U.S. Marine Corps Band?
•Congressional declarations actually called for “Christianity” to be “spread all over the Earth”?
•The first U.S. Supreme Court opened with a four hour Prayer and Communion service?
•The Bible was a required reading textbook in the public schools?
•President Thomas Jefferson ordered that schools use the Bible when teaching students to read?
•Territories applying for Statehood were required to teach religion in their schools? (Northwest Ordinance, Section XIV, Article III, passed by the House, passed by the Senate and signed into law by President George Washington, August 7, 1789
PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 5:24pmSlowBiden,
Did you notice that the John Adams quote did not say our Constitution was made for CHRISTIANS specifically? Regardless, his quote here has nothing to do with the law of the land.
You know what’s also not in the Constitution? Christianity or even God, so…
And really SlowBiden, if you want to have an intelligent conversation, I would expect you to better than cutting-and-pasting a bullet list from this website:
Report Post »http://toptenproofs.com/product_ach.php
PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 5:51pmBut anyway, since I assume that you didn’t actually research any of this cut-and-pasted info, let’s take a look:
In terms of the Northwest Ordinance, I assume you are referring to this phrase:
“Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged.”
Hmm… encouraging schools… not exactly a smoking gun proving that the country is based on Christianity…
Now, I haven’t been able to find anything like a Congressional resolution to spread Christianity, so do point me towards what you are talking about.
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:25pmYea I did cut and paste because I didn’t feel the need to retype the whole thing. Here’s some more cut and paste.
President George Washington was an Episcopalian. He was a member of the Episcopal Church, the American province of the Anglican Communion, which is a branch of Christianity, and which is usually classified as Protestant.
Report Post »Washington and the family he was raised in were originally Anglicans. The Episcopal Church was not officially founded as a separate province within Anglicanism until 1789, after the American colonies proclaimed independence from Great Britain. Prior to the American Revolutionary War, the Episcopal Church was part of the Church of England, so Washington was originally a member of the Church of England.
SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:29pmHere is some more cut and paste
Religious Affiliation
of U.S. Founding Fathers
# of
Founding
Fathers
% of
Founding
Fathers
Episcopalian/Anglican
88
54.7%
Presbyterian
30
18.6%
Congregationalist
27
16.8%
Quaker
7
4.3%
Dutch Reformed/German Reformed
6
3.7%
Lutheran
5
3.1%
Catholic
3
1.9%
Huguenot
3
1.9%
Unitarian
3
1.9%
Methodist
2
1.2%
Calvinist
1
0.6%
TOTAL
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:42pmMore cut and paste for you pube…….again John Adams “Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God … What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be.”
Report Post »–Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.
SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:51pmMore cut and paste from George Washington Pube……”Believing as I do, that Religion and Morality are the essential pillars of civil society, I view, with unspeakable pleasure, that harmony and brotherly love which characterizes the Clergy of different denominations, as well in this, as in other parts of the United States; exhibiting to the world a new and interesting spectacle, at once the pride of our country and the surest basis of Universal Harmony.” – Letter to the Clergy of Philadelphia, March 3, 1797
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 7:56pmHere’s smoe more pube……..We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
Notice that our founders said that we were given inalienble rights from God, which meant that since God gave them to us; then only God was supposed to be able to take them away
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 8:40pmSlowBiden,
None of what you provide here is evidence of anything. The information about the Founders’ religion is completely irrelevant–please, tell me what percentage of the Founders were white? I‘m going to estimate it’s around 100%. Now, would you say that this means the country is founded on the white race? That this fundamentally a white country and that therefore our institutions need to reflect that?
OK–George Washington was a member of the established religion of the British Empire and despite the fact that many colonials enjoyed that privilege, they made sure in the Constitution that it would not be possible to establish a religion for the United States.
You have a lot of not terribly helpful quotations there. Here’s a tip: Adams would know that “eutopia” means “no place.” You didn’t stumble upon any secret plan for America there. In terms of the Declaration of Independence, the references to a “Creator” and “Nature’s God” are as generic as possible–just to kind of prayers that would be allowed for a police chaplain (remember the article we are commenting on). if they wanted to say our rights come from Jesus and Christianity specifically, they would have said so. They didn’t, so you have nothing to quote but a few speeches and journal entries. Your evidence is incredibly flimsy.
Report Post »Bruce P.
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 9:54pmPOPP40 — I am curious about the United States being founded on Christianity. Could you please show me in the Bible where the Bill of Rights comes from?
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 9:09amYou say my eveidense is flimsy then produce NONE of your own.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 9:55amSlowBiden,
I did produce evidence: I produced the Establishment Clause and Article XI from the Treaty of Tripoli. Your response was a random quotation from Adams and a cut-and-pasted list from an ad that included no specifics.
I produced a section of the Bill of Rights and a legal international treaty approved by Congress and signed by President John Adams. You produced a few random quotes from speeches and a survey of the religious affiliations of the founders (along with quotations from the Declaration of Independence that make no mention of Christianity). Given that you haven’t even attempted to refute my evidence, who would you say objectively is winning this argument?
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 21, 2012 at 2:00pmThe decleration of independence mentions the creator. If the creator isn’t God than who is it? Rumplestiltskin
Report Post »SLOWBIDEN
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:49pmHe should have done it anyway. What exactly would they have done. Arrest him? Unfortuanetly we need someone to be arrested for something like this so it will light a spark for the rest of us Christians.
Report Post »BeeAlert
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:11pmThat’s what I would have hoped also, especially since the guy is from my denomination. I am going to ask my pastor what he would do in the same situation.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 12:49pmnor prohibit the free exercise……
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:04pmIt’s be definition not “free exercise” if it’s representing a government institution. As I am sure you know, these are individual rights and don’t apply when the chaplain is speaking on behalf of a government institution, plain and simple. This seems like an obvious point, so please tell me that you understand.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:13pmthen why doesn’t it say “except when representing a government agency” then? Why isn’t that mentioned as an “exception” in any of the Federalist Papers?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:43pmOK, so here is an example:
You have a business, and you hire a new employee you think will be just fine. However, right away this employee starts running around town announcing that your company hates black people and that Catholics are not welcome there. Do you think you have the right to fire that employee for misrepresenting your company, or would you just say that he has the right to free speech?
What if you had a receptionist who insisted on blessing everyone in the name of Allah when they came to her desk? Would she be protected by free exercise in this case?
These are not “loopholes” in one’s right to free speech–when you are representing an organization that organization has a right to control how it is represented–the same goes for the government. Individual rights do not apply to institutions.
Report Post »FEISTY
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 1:44pmThese angry atheists really crack me up. Someone explain to me where it is written in the Constitution that someone representing a government institution is prohibited from mentioning or invoking God in the public square? The Amendment is so crystal clear. History is an atheists’ worst enemy. What about when members of the government use official government buildings to hold Sunday mass? Did they do that in defiance of the Constitution? Were they thumbing their collective noses at non-believers? Non-believers used to simply be non-believers, now they want to try to take it away from everyone else because non-belief has become their religion.
In God [Most Of Us] Trust.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on June 20, 2012 at 2:48pm“Someone explain to me where it is written in the Constitution that someone representing a government institution is prohibited from mentioning or invoking God in the public square?”
First of all, there is a difference between acting as an individual and acting as an official on behalf of an institution. There is certainly no law preventing senators or congressmen or really any other public official from practicing their faith. However, no public official acting in an official capacity can promote or endorse a specific religious practice. This violates the establishment clause.
Report Post »Git-R-Done
Posted on July 12, 2012 at 9:40pmDishonest left wingers won’t admit that there were chaplains who held prayers inside the White House and Congress during the days of the Founding Fathers.
Report Post »