Prayer Mural Officially Removed as Battle With Teen Atheist Concludes
- Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:03pm by
Billy Hallowell
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It’s official. The prayer mural that caused so much controversy among atheists and people of faith has been taken down from the auditorium at Cranston High School West in Cranston, Rhode Island. In January, U.S. District Court Judge Ronald Lagueux sided with 16-year-old Jessica Ahlquist, an atheist, in agreeing that the banner should be removed.
Causing local and national controversy, Ahlquist claimed that its presence was offensive to non-Christians and that it violated her civil rights. The lawsuit she initiated has led to intense sparring over the separation of church and state. Additionally, the young woman has been on the receiving end of threats and unpleasant communications for months.
Citing excessive costs and a potentially long legal battle, the local school district decided not to appeal the jude’s removal decision. Thus, the historic mural, which was a gift to the school from the class of 1963, was officially taken down on Saturday and the auditorium was closed on Monday for repairs.
“We are very pleased that the school district has come into compliance with the court order and also in accordance with the school committee’s decision from a couple weeks ago and now we are hopeful we will be able to resolve the last issue that is out there concerning the awarding of attorney fees,” commented Steven Brown of the Rhode Island ACLU.
Ahlquist, too, took to Twitter to commemorate the removal of the prayer banner, writing, “The prayer has officially been removed.”
Brown’s organization represented Ahlquist in her case against the district. Now, another battle looms over the $173,000 in legal fees that the ACLU claims the city of Cranston owes for the atheist student’s representation. While the organization plans to give the district until March 19 to make a decision on the funds, the city of Cranston is still deciding if it will contest the fees.
On Tuesday afternoon, district officials will host a press conference during which the banner’s future will be discussed. According to RI NPR, several religious and secular groups have offered to provide the contentious mural with a new home.
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Comments (261)
Elena2010
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:41pmSlaves!
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:00pmI wear a crucifix around my neck for everyone to see and have done so for 25 years. If it offends anyone KMA.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:09pmI don’t care what you wear, or what you display on your private property.
I do care what you try to put up on public property.
Report Post »texasnellie
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:16pmIf they took the “Heavenly Father and the Amen” then it could just be the school motto…. or would it still b e considered a prayer?
Report Post »CatB
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:16pmAmazing .. those who want tolerance for themselves and their views have NONE for others … she doesn’t have to read or agree with the prayer … but insists that others cannot either.
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:17pmI wear it on PUBLIC PROPERTY. To damn bad.
Report Post »laurie2
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:17pm@MOD; Why? Care to elaborate?
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:17pmI speak about God and Jesus ON PUBLIC PROPERTY. To damn bad.
Report Post »UseReasonNotMagic
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:22pmYou are totally allowed to wear your cross…no one is trying to stop you. This whole thing is simply giving other religions a fair chance and not forcing people to be exposed to your religion if they chose not to…I know it is hard for you guys to see because it is so personal to you. but we are not stepping on Christianity…we are just taking Christianity’s foot and placing it back in the boundaries of the law. A boundary which was overstepped long ago.
Seriously…why is it so important that in PUBLIC schools your religion is paraded around? Is the home and church not enough? Act Christian about this and understand that this is not an injustice at all…it is righting a wrong that was made years before.
I mean seriously….no one is stopping you for practicing your religion. This is a movement about the freedom of practice. Do people practicing other religions offend you that much?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:22pmCandCAntiques,
“I wear it on PUBLIC PROPERTY. To damn bad.”
The only thing you are doing here is parading the fact that you have no idea what the issue is here.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:23pm@Texas
“If they took the “Heavenly Father and the Amen” then it could just be the school motto…. or would it still b e considered a prayer?”
Probably would have to take out the “prayer” label too, but you’re right: it would just be a motto. Instead the school insisted that it should stay and did not constitute an endorsement of religion; the courts disagreed. Compromise could have been found before this all began, but now what’s been ruled is ruled.
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:35pmOne liberal states we must pay for her to have contraceptives because she is to busy having sex to work for the money to be able to afford them herself and another liberal doesnt want us to display that we believe in God or Jesus in public because it offends her to ask God to help her grow morally. What the hell is wrong with these people?
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:44pmExcuse the hell out of me! I didnt realize that ….
GRANT US EACH DAY THE DESIRE TO DO OUR BEST, TO GROW MENTALLY AND MORALLY AS WELL AS PHYSICALLY, TO BE KIND AND HELPFUL TO OUR CLASSMATES AND TEACHERS, TO BE HONEST WITH OURSELVES AS WELL AS WITH OTHERS, HELP US TO BE GOOD SPORTS AND SMILE WHEN WE LOSE AS WELL AS WHEN WE WIN, TEACH US THE VALUE OF TRUE FRIENDSHIP, HELP US ALWAYS TO CONDUCT OURSELVES SO AS TO BRING CREDIT TO CRANSTON HIGH SCHOOL WEST.
was a bad thing. The word amen ( /ˌɑːˈmɛn/ or /ˌeɪˈmɛn/; Hebrew: אָמֵן, Modern amen Tiberian ʾāmēn; Greek: ἀμήν; Arabic: آمين, ʾāmīn ; “So be it; truly”) The word amen includes ALL religions. The word God is also inclusive of ALL religions. It is a generic term. At the worst only the words “our heavenly father and Amen should have been covered up. It should NOT have been removed and everyone knows it.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:48pm“us to display that we believe in God or Jesus in public”
You see–once again you make her argument for her. In talking about the banner, you make it a matter of “us” versus “her,” but of course, she is part of the public too. You are merely reinforcing her valid point that the banner excluded people.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:50pm“The word amen includes ALL religions. The word God is also inclusive of ALL religions.”
Nope. Try again.
Report Post »UseReasonNotMagic
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:21pm@Cancantiques
” At the worst only the words “our heavenly father and Amen should have been covered up. It should NOT have been removed and everyone knows it.”
Maybe so, but maybe you guys should have gotten your stuff together to provide a good defense instead of running around outraged thinking “God wont let this happen!”
Guess what, it just happened..and i dont think God would have an issue with it. I believe he would want people to choose a religion, rather than being programmed at a young age that this one religion is the only options.
There are many ways for one to become spiritual….religion is not the only way. Let people become educated and choose for themselves…in the long run, doesn’t it make it that much more significant if someone knows about all other religions and then chooses one over the others?
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:37pmDeclaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
All that we are is based on our “Creator”. Without said “Creator” we have no authority nor basis nor foundation of our rights. Atheists should thank the “Creator” for living in a nation founded on Him.
Report Post »Cservice
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:41pmFreedom from religion or freedom from prayer? I find this amazing that anyone takes offense at this prayer. Ironic there would be a law against brotherly love and being a good person. That is what this really boils down to. The religion of atheism. Everyone has a god. We all worship something. It is in our DNA it is how we are made. Just like we never had to be taught to steal cheat and lie… that too is in our DNA. The most wonderful thing is that I can pray for this child… and I do.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:50pmHowTruthHurts,
And what about the Constitution?
Report Post »Freedom Hound
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:52pmI have no belief in God or religion and I find it ridiculous that people get so perturbed and bent out of shape when others display their beliefs of a religion in public schools. The moment someone voices their dislike over a group of say, homosexuals trying to expose their beliefs in public schools they are deemed haters, bigots, homophobes or what have you. Why is there always a double standard? What’s good for one group to do should be good for all to do.
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:48pm@PUBLIUSPENCILMAN
Without the Declaration of Independence there is never an opportunity for the Constitution. Without the “Creator” there is no Declaration of Independence. Therefore the “Creator” is the basis of the Declaration of Independence which is the basis of the Constitution.
Report Post »Freedom.Fighter
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 5:34pm@MODERATIONISBEST:
Since, atheism is actually considered a religion by law, this simply means that Christians can now sue the school for having to be surrounded by the practice of atheism.
The Supreme Court even put this to rest decades ago (or at least they thought they did) by giving over 87 precedents illustrating why schools can and SHOULD display biblical references in schools.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 5:40pmHowTruthHurts, that’s not a legally defensible argument. God isn’t in the Constitution, plain and simple. Are you arguing that the founders simply forgot?
Report Post »jhaydeng
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 7:28pmLazy cowards! Way to fight!
Report Post »Magpie_Z
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 8:31pmI have come to a conclusion that those who deny the importance of religion for the health of the Nation have not studied how the Founders of this Country did indeed view religion as a necessary component for the Constitution to survive.
Referring to George Washington’s Sacred Fire by Peter A. Lillback, there is an excellant section covering why religion was not specifically mentioned and the explanation of how religion and government should continue to work together to insure a moral government in George Washington’s own words.
Secondly, Washington felt it was important to warn Americans of those whose “peculiar Structure of mind” would lead them to remove the “indespensible supports of religion and morality” from government. This was a reference to “Deists” which he was not one, and I will not mention what he thought of Atheists.
Thirdly, the seperation of Church and State is not in the Constitution, but rather came from a Supreme Court ruling in 1947 with Justice Hugo Black delivering the opinion of the court in Everson v. Board of Education (1947). Oh did I also say that Hugo Black was in the KKK, a liberal Democrat, and hated Catholics. Ooo, that opinion had no tinge to it whatsoever.
If atheist believe in reason and not in God, what is their excuse for being so blind, maybe, it is because we came from monkeys.
Report Post »jzs
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 9:39pmWhat I find sad and pathetic is that the school left up all the Muslim and Buddhist prayers. Not to mention the Scientology recruitment posters.
Report Post »Ded-Bred
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:18amWho wants to see 10 commandments in our nation’s high schools? Our public school systems are losing lawsuits brought against them by some little brat craving attention the same week a troubled child goes into a high school and murders some kids, some sorry sick punks who’ve been taught racism by their family and decide to murder a boy by dousing him with gasoline. How could young boys even think of something so sick, and all because he’s white. racism is blacks on whites. Dr. King would be so proud!) Our children see human life’s not valuable,
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Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 9:45pmIN CONGRESS
November 1, 1777
FORASMUCH as it is the indispensable Duty of all Men to adore the superintending Providence of Almighty God; to acknowledge with Gratitude their Obligation to him for Benefits received, and to implore such farther Blessings as they stand in Need of: And it having pleased him in his abundant Mercy, not only to continue to us the innumerable Bounties of his common Providence; but also to smile upon us in the Prosecution of a just and necessary War, for the Defense and Establishment of our unalienable Rights and Liberties; particularly in that he hath been pleased, in so great a Measure, to prosper the Means used for the Support of our Troops, and to crown our Arms with most signal success:
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 9:45pmIt is therefore recommended to the legislative or executive Powers of these UNITED STATES to set apart THURSDAY, the eighteenth Day of December next, for SOLEMN THANKSGIVING and PRAISE: That at one Time and with one Voice, the good People may express the grateful Feelings of their Hearts, and consecrate themselves to the Service of their Divine Benefactor; and that, together with their sincere Acknowledgments and Offerings, they may join the penitent Confession of their manifold Sins, whereby they had forfeited every Favor; and their humble and earnest Supplication that it may please GOD through the Merits of JESUS CHRIST, mercifully to forgive and blot them out of Remembrance; That it may please him graciously to afford his Blessing on the Governments of these States respectively, and prosper the public Council of the whole: To inspire our Commanders, both by Land and Sea, and all under them, with that Wisdom and Fortitude which may render them fit Instruments, under the Providence of Almighty GOD, to secure for these United States, the greatest of all human Blessings, INDEPENDENCE and PEACE:
Report Post »colt1860
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 9:46pmThat it may please him, to prosper the Trade and Manufactures of the People, and the Labor of the Husbandman, that our Land may yield its Increase: To take Schools and Seminaries of Education, so necessary for cultivating the Principles of true Liberty, Virtue and Piety, under his nurturing Hand; and to prosper the Means of Religion, for the promotion and enlargement of that Kingdom, which consisteth “in Righteousness, Peace and Joy in the Holy Ghost.”
And it is further recommended, That servile Labor, and such Recreation, as, though at other Times innocent, may be unbecoming the Purpose of this Appointment, be omitted on so solemn an Occasion.
http://www.pilgrimhall.org/GivingThanks3c.htm
Report Post »KAKnightinJax
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 11:08amThere happens to be one thing that I am not seeing here. First of all the whol seperation of church and state argument is mute because that whole argument is based upon the first amendment, correct? Well the first amendment to the US Constitution clearly states the following (when it comes to religion), “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”. Therefore, based upon the wording, the first amendment only relates to Congress itself. It doesn’t relate to states or school districts and the like.
I know but those people say that the 14th amendment requires all states to follow the amendments. So for clarification, here is the wording that would be referred to by these people from the 14th amendment, “No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” Now this is also a mute point because if we go back to the original wording of the 1st amendment, it speaks directly and entirely to CONGRESS. States don’t have a congress, they have Legislatures.
Finally, the Declaration of Independence is the first piece of legislation that Congress passed. Therefore it is apart of the Constitution and without it, there would be no Constitution.
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 19, 2012 at 9:06pmElena, this has nothing to do with offending anyone. This has to do with the constitution. There must be a wall of separation between church and state. No one is going to complain about your crucifix around your neck.
Report Post »IMCHRISTIAN
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:40pmJessica, I hope you enjoy your own company. However, God never leaves us so that is one that you won’t be able to take away from anyone of us or yourself.
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:15pmShe chooses to fight against God and Jesus. Therefore she works for the devil and will suffer his wrath.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:25pm“She chooses to fight against God and Jesus. Therefore she works for the devil and will suffer his wrath.”
Thanks you for demonstrating quite clearly and effectively exactly why we can’t have a public school with a banner like that.
Report Post »candcantiques
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:49pmPubliusPencilman
Thank you for demonstrating quite clearly why it IS necessary.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:58pmI’m afraid you are going to have to be more specific. Are you suggesting that its perfectly fine for public schools to suggest that certain of their students are in league with Satan?
Report Post »an.atheist
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:24pmSort of sad to see her have a better understanding of our Constitution than the representative of her state.
Report Post »M24
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:36pmWell i guess Tis Little Atheist Got Her 5 min. of Fame . She Has a look about Her That is of needing attention , She is Not Smart Enough To Even Talk about Anything With Out Someone Coaching Her . Now The Rest Of Her School days She Will Be a Outcast ,Trouble maker. Remember NOTHING IS AS IT SEEMS .This Is What Happens when School Districts Suck Up To The Government Instead Of Teaching Our Children . I used to have Great Respect For Teacher’s Not Anymore
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:01pm“She is Not Smart Enough To Even Talk about Anything With Out Someone Coaching Her .”
Do I even need to say anything? M24: should you really be bringing in question anyone’s intelligence?
Report Post »auntbea
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 5:14pmI think she’s just another little snot who needed attention.
Report Post »moreteaplease
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:35pmThey think this is some sort of victory for Atheism. What they don’t realize is that if God decides to remove His hand from this country they will be the first ones crying out to Him. So let them go ahead and yuk it up while they can because one day God is going to let go of this country and if you think we are seeing bad times now…just wait.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:37pmYes, and in the meantime God is totally cool with Beck and his ilk using his name in vain to promote whatever conservative agenda item comes up.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:44pmit has nothing to do with atheism. it’s a victory for secularism.
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:41pmThis is only a Minor Skirmish… in a Real War!
Report Post »wildbluyonder11
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:35pm@Publiuspencilman: Have you ever actually watched or listened to a Glenn Beck show? I‘ve been watching and listening to him since he was on CNN and I’ve found him to be a perfectly reasonable, respectful person who is truly concerned about the direction in which our country is heading. I suspect you, sir, have absolutely no idea what he stands for and are simply here because Media Matters or HuffPo or Daily Kos told you to come here. Your comments are infantile at best and really don’t contribute much to the conversation, merely liberal talking points and jabs. So sad for you.
Report Post »palerider54
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:34pmThis teenage atheist and her family should be shunned by the entire community.
They should be ridiculed and shamed every time they crawl out from under their slimy rock.
Report Post »janedough1
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:05pmThis teen atheist should be left to populate the school alone, while every Christian parent pulls their child out and home schools or privately educates. They want the hearts and minds of your kids. If you give them what they want, they’ll keep doing this.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:06pmShe should be celebrated as Patrick Henry is. She took a stand in defense of the Constitution and for the right contained within.
You Christian are blinded by your faith, and blinded to the truth. We are a secular nation that ensures that religion has no place within the halls of government.
Report Post »palerider54
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:17pm@ENCINOM
You do like the smell of sulpher mixed with the oder of your flesh burning, don’t you.
Think of me every few thousand yrs, as one of the last to try to warn you, will ya.
Report Post »True American66
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:18pm@encinom….It is freedom OF religion NOT freedom FROM relgion. You atheists are the most intolerent and scared people on earth.
Report Post »HowTruthHurts
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:39pm@ENCINOM
Declaration of Independence: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
Really, we’re a secular nation? Sounds as though all that we stand for are based on our “Creator”. And no, don’t give me that Atheist “Well, that was added 150 years later” bull crap. This quote was there from day one.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:43pmTrue American66
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:18pm
@encinom….It is freedom OF religion NOT freedom FROM relgion. You atheists are the most intolerent and scared people on earth.
___________________
By its very nature freedom of religion includes the freedom from religion. Again, the Establishment Clause created a line that the Government, Federal, State and Local could no cross. The Mural crossed that line and openingly endorsed the Christian religion above all others.
This brave student stood up for the Constitution, something Beck says more Americans should do.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:45pm“It is freedom OF religion NOT freedom FROM relgion.”
Even if we accept this silly slogan, based on the kind of angry and crazy responses we see on this board, how can you say that this girl’s freedom to believe or not believe what she wants was being protected when the banner was up? Given that so many people are willing to condemn her and even threaten her for not believing what they believe, it seems that she was more than justified in wanting the banner gone.
Report Post »FEISTY
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:08pmENCINOM: You can rewrite history any which way you’d like, but you’ll be wrong. We are NOT a secular nation. Where does it say there is a LINE in the Constitution? And it only extends to the FEDERAL government establishing a NATIONAL religion (like England had) and thus trampling STATES RIGHTS. A STATE could establish a state religion if the people chose to and the FED could not stop them — according to the Constitution. There is a WALL of separation between the Government and Religion — meaning that religion could be FREELY expressed without government influence. It doesn’t mean religion must retreat into basements and closets. You’ve got it all wrong. Go read real American history.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:29pm@ ENCILOON
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ” . George Washington 1779 .
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:37pmFEISTY
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:08pm
ENCINOM: You can rewrite history any which way you’d like, but you’ll be wrong. We are NOT a secular nation. Where does it say there is a LINE in the Constitution? And it only extends to the FEDERAL government establishing a NATIONAL religion (like England had) and thus trampling STATES RIGHTS. A STATE could establish a state religion if the people chose to and the FED could not stop them — according to the Constitution. There is a WALL of separation between the Government and Religion — meaning that religion could be FREELY expressed without government influence. It doesn’t mean religion must retreat into basements and closets. You’ve got it all wrong. Go read real American history.
—————————————————————–
Report Post »14th Amendment applied the Bill of Rights to the states, Beck and Barton have lied to you. The Wall of Seperation also prevents any the Government from endorse any one set of beliefs. Nobody is saying that private displays of religion should be outlawed, the issue is state sponsored and displays on public lands which are held in trust for all citizens.
kookoolarue
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 9:53pmShe’s a hero and is fighting for all our rights.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:05am@ ENCILOON
“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ” .
Report Post »President George Washington 1779 .
PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 10:17amRobert,
Report Post »Look it up–that is a blatant misquoting of George Washington, and in the actual context, it has nothing to do with the American education system. If you have any respect at all for our founding fathers, you will apologize for misrepresenting the views of President Washington in order to serve your own ends.
wildbluyonder11
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 12:54pm@Publiuspencilman: Yeah, Robert, look it up. Google it and the top search result goes to a site that has a top link to a story praising Bill Maher’s anti-christian rants. That’s reliable research for you, right there. I’d believe that site. NOT
Report Post »wildbluyonder11
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 1:18pm@Encinomon or whatever: Ah, “the Establishment Clause”. Where exactly is this “clause”? People talk about this like it’s some legal contract placed in the Constitution somewhere. The First Amendment reads:
Report Post »Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging
the freedom of speech, or of the press, or the right
of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
Government for a redress of grievances.
I can never see how people make arguments for things like this high school banner out of the First Amendment. The first five words should shut it down before it gets started. “Congress shall make no laws…” Where exactly is the law that Congress made concerning this banner or any banner in any high school. There’s no laws involved here and especially in this case. No law was made requiring Cranston West students back in the 60′s to paint this mural on the wall. People distort the First Amendment constantly in order to destroy religion, or at the very least, relegate it to the shadows, so that non-believers don’t have to see it.
DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:33pmJudicial And Legal Misconduct And Ethics And Civil Rights Violations Committed By Judge Ronald R. Lagueux In Rhode Island Courts: http://caught.net/caught/lagu.htm
Report Post »laurie2
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:33pmWhat the H double LL is happening to our country. Why do we ALWAYS let the voices of a
Report Post »few over-ride the wants of the many???? Our so called government is killing this once
great country. The US is fast becoming a mere shadow of it’s past,,,and dimming day by day.
and yes,,,I am really disallusioned and disgusted with it all.
8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:49pmI agree—THAT is the very reason to vote OUT this administration–this November.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:50pmYup, damn that Government for over ruling the majority and not allowing the country to keep slaves, or keep women less equal then men. Damn them!
Just because there is a majority doesn’t mean the majority is Constitutionally correct.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:54pm“What the H double LL is happening to our country.”
I know! Back in my day, we used to spell “Hell” as Hell, not HLLLL! Schools can’t even teach people to spell these days :-(
Report Post »laurie2
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:15pm@MOD-your first sentence is nonsensical at best.
And what is “ Constitutionally” correct anymore, it’s been amended, repealed, ratified,,etc..
Report Post »some for the good, some for the worse…
ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:39pm@LAURIE2
How is it nonsensical? You gave no evidence.
At one point in our country, human beings owned other human beings. We now deem that it is unconstitutional. What happened there?
Our founding fathers talked about freedom, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness…..WHILE OWNING OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. I think that little fact right there shows that our founders weren’t correct on everything they did.
Our founders had some great ideas….they were also morally lacking in other areas.
YOU are nonsensical, not my argument.
Report Post »BOONDOCK SAINT
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 2:28amIf the class of 1963, and every other alumni and parent, and citizen who wished to financially support them could donate to a legal fund to challenge the ruling, put a stay upon said ruling, put the banner back up until the next hearing date to where another judgment may find in the favor of keeping the banner. If you’re sick and tired of letting the few bully the many, then get together and only together can we fight and win back. Who there will have the courage to organize such a group. I guarantee you if you put it together, ask for donations, hire the right attorney, you can take it back to court. You will get your funding and you will get your support. Start standing up people! Don’t let this misled, brainwashed child and the thugs behind her bully you all. If you can’t start doing it here and now, when??? And by then… it may be too late. You must act NOW!
Report Post »Nemo13
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:29pmSTOP CAVING IN TO THESE NUT JOBS! The constitution say NOTHING about having that up! Stop giving these small group of morons victories!
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:33pm“The constitution say NOTHING about having that up!”
Yes it does. There is, of course, the establishment clause. There is also the free exercise clause. If the school endorses a particular religious practice, then that endorsement is inherently coercive. How can you say this student is being afforded her right to free exercise when she is under coercion to accept a specific religious practice?
Report Post »Biker Patriot
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:47pmPubliuspencilman
Report Post »Your blinded by your own ideas. You said it yourself it is the ESTABLISHMENT clause. Do you know what that word means? It never said or even implied the government should not support and/or encourage religious activity. Agreed, this is a Republic not a majority rules but it doesn’t mean silencing the majority either. If she doesn‘t like it she doesn’t have to look at it. If it bothered her so much why did she read it? What was she afraid of a moral standard she didn’t want to even TRY to live by?
PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 5:48pmBiker Patriot,
Actually, it does mean that the government can’t promote specific religious practices–you mention “religion” as if it were possible to talk promote or encourage some vague and general religiousity without taking sides in terms of practice. This is impossible, and the government can’t take sides.
Report Post »8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:28pmThis is just another example of the REAL culture war happinging here. This country was founded on Biblical principles—there is NO doupt on that fact. If we do not stand uip for the Biblical foundation of America now—when?
Report Post »SimpleTruths
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:35pmAre you talking about the Bible that Jefferson wrote himself? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible
Stop making stuff up.
Report Post »8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:47pmIn 1776 a piece of paper was signed by the founders of the United states –they relied on “devine provadence” —read it for yourself.
Report Post »COFemale
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:49pmLike wiki pedia is a reliable source. Please don’t insult our intelligence. Wiki is written by people with an agenda, no matter how much they site.
Report Post »Jessff00
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:54pmHey SIMPLETRUTHS…..27 of our founding fathers had christian siminary degrees….educate yourself before you start making fun of people. Do you think jefferson was the only founding father???? Ignorance is Bliss….http://www.adherents.com/gov/Founding_Fathers_Religion.html
Report Post »EchoHawk
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:30pmHow about we just use the Constitution as it’s written?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:51pmThe Bible is not mentioned in the Constitution, the Constitution the foundation for our laws and government only restricts the interactions between religion and the governmnet. the Establishment clause. the prohibition on religious tests only proves that the founders wanted the government to be secular.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:03pm“27 of our founding fathers had christian siminary degrees”
Yes, and they were all men. Clearly this means that women shouldn’t ever be able to vote or hold office.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:04pm@Jessff00
Report Post »“27 of our founding fathers had christian siminary (sic) degrees”
That just means they went to school, period. Religious institutions have controlled higher learning for centuries. What does that tidbit of info prove? I’m an atheist and I went to a Catholic high school. Also, most of the Founding Fathers were Masons. Does that make the US a masonic country?
SoNick
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 6:55pm@cofemale
Report Post »Are you saying the Jefferson Bible never existed because it’s mentioned on wikipedia? You’re really grasping at straws there…
DIVINEPROVIDENCE1776
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:26pm“We’re going to have to make sacrifices, we’re going to have to change our conversation, we’re going to have to change our traditions, our history and we’re going to have to move to a different place.” ~Michelle Obama
What’s next? Removing the carvings of Moses holding the ten commandments from the Supreme Court building?!? Removing the Laus Deo inscription from the Washington Monument?!?
Report Post »8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:53pmThey will try–I would like to how far they will get to the Declaration of independance in the national archives.
Report Post »stealthyk9
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:03pmDo you honestly believe that these religious-themed expressions will not eventually be targeted for removal by “offended fools”? Unfortunately, given the current, sad state of affairs and court cases, we will probably see them removed in our lifetime.
Report Post »True American66
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:25pmThere’s nothing quite like the rightous indignation of an atheist. They are the most intolerant people on the planet. Where did they get that they had a right to freedom FROM religion?…and cowardly judges, whatcha gonna do?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:46pm“Where did they get that they had a right to freedom FROM religion?”
The real question is: Where do you get the impression that public institutions and buildings can promote and endorse specific religious practices?
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 7:11pm@Pencil – What specific religion? Which one is stated? I see nothing declaring the religion of the Catholics or Baptists or Methodists or Presbyterians? So what “specific” religion is being touted here?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 10:20am“I see nothing declaring the religion of the Catholics or Baptists or Methodists or Presbyterians?”
Yes, because clearly those are the only religions there are. I couldn’t have made the argument for getting rid of the banner better myself.
Report Post »Anarimus
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:15pm@From Virginia
The prayer is obviously a Christian prayer as indicated by it’s written style. Christianity is a religion. Schools as extensions of government cannot endorse religion. Students can freely however wear crosses, talk about religion, pray on their own, etc. and the school can’t stop them. The problem is in this case the school was endorsing it. There have been many cases even some the ACLU defended Christians in where schools infringed upon students expressing religious beliefs. People can express their religious beliefs as much as they please however government sponsored entities cannot endorse it. That is the point.
Report Post »hauschild
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:25pmAnother classic! Imagine a school taking marching orders from a snot-nosed child of a bottom-feeding family.
Every one of these decisions while seemingly small, is another ***** in the armor of traditional America. Once most of the armor is gone, the world will suffer beyond belief.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:24pmIn the further exploits of Jessica Ahlquist:
1. She takes a trip to Brazil where she sees the gigantic statue of Christ The Redeemer in Rio de Janeiro. She gets offended and makes the Brazilians remove it.
2. On a visit to the “mecca” of political atheism – China – she goes by the city of Leshan, and stumbles upon the 233 foot statue of Buddha. She becomes shocked and offended, and make the Chinese tear it down.
3. On her stay in France, she decides to visit the Louvre in Paris, where she breaks down into an apoplectic fit when she finds herself surrounded by a pantheon of gods and goddesses from every culture and nation in ancient history. From her padded cell she successfully closes the doors of the Louvre forever.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:41pmYes. You should probably spend as much of your time as possible making fun of sixteen-year-old girls.
Report Post »TH30PH1LUS
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:33pmPubliusPencilman wrote: “Yes. You should probably spend as much of your time as possible making fun of sixteen-year-old girls.”
Sage advice coming from the man who posted 18 times on this one page.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:51pmFeel free to count up how many of those time I was picking on high school girls.
Report Post »edmundburk
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 9:20pmduuude..RIGHT-ON!!
Report Post »ExpertShot
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:24pmInstead of stooping to her level & intimidating her, I would just ignore her totally…she, like other militants, crave the attention…so don’t give it to her.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:00pmI’m really glad you took the time to read the story and post on this board that you are ignoring it, although I think you are doing it wrong.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:23pmThe town should have shut down the school, and given the tax money back to the tax payers, where they could send their kids to a private school of their choice, that would do a better job, and cost half as much without the needs to buy liberal wankers rubbers.
Report Post »CowboyAZ
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:20pmI say remove all evidence of Atheism as this evidence enrages me and violates my civil rights. Therefore every public place must acknowledge the existence of God.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:15pmThankfully, we have a Constitution and being offended at something does not in and of itself violate the establishment clause.
Endorsing religion on public property though? That sure does violate our Constitution!
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 6:47pmAgain, you confuse atheism and secularism. A lot of proponents of secularism are atheists, for sure, but some are religious people who think faith is a very personal thing that should not interfere with the “res publica”.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 7:19pm@Locked – Thankfully, we have a Constitution and being offended at something does not in and of itself violate the establishment clause.”
So you admit YOUR religion (secular humanism, or atheism) is the established state religion and any resistance to YOUR religion is to be punished by any means possible.
Hypocrits! People of every religion of the planet should start sueing the snot out of every one of your organizations and break the back of YOUR religion once and for all!
Report Post »stoptheliesbho
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:18pmher atheism offends me. she should be removed from the earth.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:52pmAgain–this is exactly why you can’t have public institutions endorsing specific religious practices.
Report Post »BurntHills
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:18pmthat vile ugly little animal got her way. now the rest of the vile obama-animals think they can steamroll the rest of us. hopefully she will meet her well-deserved end screaming for GOD to save her.
BUY MORE AMMO and never forget, these godless animals stopped being AMERICANS and became the Enemy in Nov 2008.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:54pm“that vile ugly little animal got her way.”
How sad that you have nothing better to do then go on conservative message boards and attack sixteen-year-old girls that you don’t know and will never meet.
I bet it makes you feel like a big man/woman.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 3:17pmWith comments like those it is clear that you are not an American, just a mindless beckerhead repeating Beck’ hate.
Report Post »Oregon Web Foot
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 4:33pmTruth is that her parents are probably not christians and therefore she is not a believer. As a christain ( I am assuming you are a christian but by your post I doubt your sincerity) you should love her with everything you have. The last thing I want is for her to live a life without ever knowing or experiencing the love that Jesus Christ has for her. That goes for all people.
I think it is we, as real dedicated, fully involved, 100% given to Him Christians who need to step and show the real Jesus to the world.
Report Post »From Virginia
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 7:25pm@Oregon – While I feel a bit of regret that so far her soul is in the “burning in hell” status I feel a blinding rage that because of her selfish actions (and they were self serving selfish actions to get attention) she has harmed thousands (present and future students) who would have benefited from such an innocent and innocuous banner. Those who would perhaps have sought out God on their own time. She had no right to do harm to those people.
Report Post »Anarimus
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:25pmAll i have to do is show a moderate voter quotes like this one that “Burnthills” made and it places so much doubt in their heads about voting for a Republican. Militant Conservatives are their own worst enemies.
Report Post »TheSoundOf Truth
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:17pmWhy are these people winning?
Report Post »8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:32pmActually they are not–the more THEY are doing their mess the more they expose their adgenda and people see them for who and what they are–ignorant.
Report Post »EchoHawk
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:34pmBecause they understand and use the Constitution and conservative religious fundamentalists use their faith as opposed to reason in dealing with matters of law.
Report Post »GodisaFarce
Posted on March 8, 2012 at 10:48pmBecause we have right on our side.
Report Post »FSM_47
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:16pmso is Atheist baby killing slut the new womanhood?
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:52pmIs rude moron the new religious person?
Report Post »SantaFeBlue
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:15pmThey can remove written prayer and all pictures relating to christianity but they will not remove it from our minds and hearts.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:29pmVery true, BLUE! It’s becoming more clear every day why He writes it in our minds and on our hearts! We are going to need His Word ever more in the days to come.
Report Post »8ThanAMERICA
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:33pmYes and YES!!!!
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:56pmThat wasn‘t her intent so it’s win-win.
That is exactly the whole argument behind this.
Not having signs up everywhere and murals everywhere, and statues everywhere does NOTHING to take away your personal walk with your lord and savior.
You are allowed to put signs up, murals up, statues up, scenes up…..on private property. I like them and think they look nice on private property. What I don’t like is them on public property.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:42pmOnce again MOD this is a Christian founded country with prayer and church services happening in government buildings from then to now. I really could care less what an atheist minority wants and even less about what you think should take place.
Report Post »ModerationIsBest
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:53pm@COPATRIOTS
So what you‘re saying is that people haven’t been following the Constitution since its inception?
Like talking about freedom, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness while owning slaves and treating women less equally?
Surely you agree that slavery has always been and always will be unconstitutional……..yet we had it for generation upon generation. What happened?
You people show your ignorance of history and only focus on one aspect of it.
Just because they were doing something, doesn’t mean it was Constitutional.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 11:03pmYou’re really cute, MOD, when you project yourself to be a Constitutional expert and a moralist at your wise age. Since you‘re back to your two weak positions that we’ve already addressed, I’ll just let your words stand for themselves. It’s clear you want to advance your “talking points”, win arguments and attempt to seem philosophical. You’re not even amusing anymore.
Report Post »Sumrknght
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:14pmI can see it now… Jessica Ahlquist standing in a pool of fire… texting “The prayer banner has been removed. :D” for all of eternity, in Hell.
I can not believe in oxygen or other things we can’t see – it doesn‘t mean they don’t exist. Rejecting God doesn‘t mean He doesn’t exist either.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:56pm“I can not believe in oxygen or other things we can’t see – it doesn‘t mean they don’t exist. Rejecting God doesn‘t mean He doesn’t exist either.”
Yes, but we know oxygen exists objectively. It’s been observed and measured by science for quite a long time. Denying that oxygen doesn’t exist is just stupid.
Report Post »PubliusPencilman
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:57pm“I can see it now… Jessica Ahlquist standing in a pool of fire”
Spend less time on the internet having fantasies about sixteen-year-old girls.
Report Post »Anarimus
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 6:38pmActually you can see oxygen when it is in liquid form. It’s a pale blue transparent liquid. In it’s solid form it varies from red to blue. We can also see it atomically. We know it exists.
However there is no solid evidence for gods hence the reason there are atheists. When one makes an outrageous claim without evidence and it in turn makes claims for how things came to be that goes against established evidence then don’t expect some of us to accept it based on your say so.
Report Post »Conservative New Yorker
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:10pmShame. But while they (atheists/ACLU) and she may have won the battle, WE will win the war.
And trolls need not reply- you are on ignore.
Report Post »oldguy49
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:16pmi would like to be there when muslims tell her what she will have to do and see what she has to say when no christians are left to help her
Report Post »Obama Snake Oil Co
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:18pmThe first part of the battle is make sure the judge allows nothing to the attorneys; Brown’s organization represented Ahlquist in her case against the district. Now, another battle looms over the $173,000 in legal fees that the ACLU claims the city of Cranston owes for the atheist student’s representation. While the organization plans to give the district until March 19 to make a decision on the funds, the city of Cranston is still deciding if it will contest the fees.
She should be prepared to cough it up and this terd will go away. The ACLU should pay for it on their own period.
Report Post »sWampy
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:26pmOh, great, we aren’t pay when some whore pretends to fall on your property she is trespassing on, sues you for a million dollars and loses, but we are when some whore sues to unconstitutionally take away our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms and wins. ;-( We won’t be a free society again until the last lawyer is dead and buried.
Report Post »SoNick
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:51pm@SWAMPY
Report Post »You brain is apparently as murky as your screen name suggests. I don‘t even understand what you’re trying to say. A young woman who uses her constitutional right to sue a public school while invoking the constitution is somehow unconstitutional?
Gonzo
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:10pmI guess if we rioted and killed a few atheists Obama would apologize to us.
Report Post »SimpleTruths
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:14pmYou really are itching for some physical violence aren’t you? I bet you love bar fights.
Report Post »Gonzo
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:23pmIf you’re in the bar I sure am. You won’t find me in a gay bar though so, I guess we’ll never meet.
Report Post »EchoHawk
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 2:42pmGONZO’s the one over in the dark corner of the bathhouse, my cousin that works there says he has a lifetime membership
Report Post »hi
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 1:08pmThey have replaced it with a Muslim prayer which does not offend the teen.
Report Post »kookoolarue
Posted on March 6, 2012 at 9:55pmInteresting. They didn’t mention that in the article. I’m surprised that an atheist would find a Muslim prayer more acceptable than a Christian one. Or is the issue here that you are an idiot?
Report Post »Zwiseguy
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 3:23amI don’t think the issue strands from idiocy, pal, just patterns and trends. More people argue against Christian values and stand up for equality and tolerance towards Islam everyday. It’s not burning a flag or book mind you, but small things like this case add up to increasingly grind people’s nerves.
Report Post »kookoolarue
Posted on March 7, 2012 at 5:32pmI see the idiocy is contagious. So you think that standing up for equality and tolerance for a minority segment of the population is a bad thing. And you equate that with allowing Muslim prayers to be posted in a public school? That’s hilarious. I WOULD stand up for a Muslim who is being victimized by a bigot. And I WOULD fight to have a Muslim prayer taken out of a public place. How can you not understand these fundamentally different issues? You just want special rights for Christians, that’s all, and when you don’t get them you cry and cry.
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