Proposed Document Asks Presbyterian Denomination to Condemn Israel‘s ’Apartheid Against the Palestinian People’
- Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:30am by
Billy Hallowell
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There’s a controversial Presbyterian Church (USA) — referred to as the PC(USA) — document floating around that may cause unease among those individuals and institutions standing in support of Israel. It seems that some in the denomination, which is different from the Presbyterian Church in America (see editor’s note below this article) and claims to have 11,000 congregations and 2.3 million members nationwide, are taking a hard-line stance on what they‘re calling Israel’s “apartheid” policies against the Palestinian people.
A document, entitled “Recognition that Israel’s Laws, Policies, and Practices Constitute Apartheid Against the Palestinian People,” will be presented at the denomination’s General Assembly this summer. The proposal, which uses the controversial word “apartheid” 91 times, says that “Israel’s laws, policies, and practices constitute apartheid against the Palestinian people” and it urges the church body to intervene to “seek appropriate ways to bring an end to Israeli apartheid.”
Just to clarify for understanding’s sake, apartheid means, very literally, “any system or practice that separates people according to race, caste, etc.,” thus the document is calling for the entire denomination to label Israel as a discriminatory culprit in the ongoing Middle Eastern political drama.
“This rationale will demonstrate how Israel’s practices and actions in the occupied Palestinian territories combined with Israel’s physical changes to the land and infrastructure of the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, fit the United Nations and World Court definitions of apartheid,” the document proclaims. Here are some select portions that showcase the overall sentiment presented within it (you can read the entire proposal here):
…Palestinian land and businesses have been expropriated, homes demolished, and property and farmland destroyed as a half-a-million Israeli settlers have moved into the West bank, including East Jerusalem. The illegal settlement colonies, the bypass roads that connect them, and the Separation Wall imprison Palestinians in isolated enclaves, eviscerate the Palestinian economy, and prevent the creation of a viable, contiguous, sovereign, and independent Palestinian state. And the pace of Israeli human rights abuses and violation of international law appears to increase every year.
We support the state of Israel and want it to live up to its potential to be a democracy with equal rights for all people living in security and prosperity. It is therefore with pain and sorrow that friends of Israel witness Israel’s oppressive policies and actions in the West Bank. [...]
…as Presbyterians we believe the prophetic mission of the church is to speak the Word of God courageously, honestly and lovingly in the local context and in the midst of daily life; following the example of Jesus, the church is called to stand alongside the oppressed to help bring about justice, peace and reconciliation. It is because of this call that we must sometimes get out of our comfort zone and risk controversy and criticism from people or organizations with which we are in relationship. It is because of this call that we must recognize what we witness in occupied Palestine, which is that Israel’s laws, practices, and polices constitute apartheid against the Palestinian people.
One of the maps used to prove the apartheid rationale in the PC (USA) document
“Silence in the face of evil was wrong then, and it is wrong now,” the document reads, referring to the deafening silence many Christians maintained during the Holocaust.
In what looks to be a January 2012 church bulletin posted on the Westminster Presbyterian Church (Wooster, Ohio) web site (the church where the document appears to have been crafted), Pastor Andries “Dries” Coetzee shared his deep support for the document and the opinions held within it. While Coetzee, who was born in South Africa, admits that he was told in seminary that it is best to remain neutral when it comes to addressing controversial issues, he says he disagrees on this particular overture.
“It is with sadness that I traveled to Israel and Palestine last year only to observe very much the same world of my country of origin, South Africa,” he wrote, reiterating his support for the document. “In fact, many South African anti-apartheid activists like Nelson Mandela and Archbishop Desmond Tutu will tell you that the conditions in Israel/Palestine are even worse than that of apartheid South Africa.”
“God is using Westminster and the Presbyterian Church (USA) in a very special way,” Coetzee contends.
A historical map on the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site that attempts to set the record straight on the nation's historical geography
But not everyone in the PC(USA) denomination agrees. In fact, one woman — Myra Warne, an ordained Elder who currently serves as the Clerk of Session for Brighton Presbyterian Church in Zanesville, Ohio — was so disturbed by the document that she reached out to The Blaze. Warne, who oversees her church’s records on official business (baptisms, ordinations and other related items), keeps the minutes at official meetings and has heard, first hand, about this overture.
On January 18, she says she first came across the controversial apartheid document. It was previously presented at a “special called meeting” of the Muskingum Valley Presbytery (a presbytery is a governing body within the PC(USA) church; Coetzee’s church is a member of this same presbytery) on January 10.
“[Our] Presbytery typically has four-six scheduled meetings per year,” Warne said in an e-mail interview with The Blaze. “‘Special’ meetings are called when [there is] urgent business that cannot wait.”
Warne went on to say that another meeting had been held in December and that it seemed as though this particular gathering was called primarily to address the Israeli proposal as well as some budgetary items. Thus, it appears that the Israeli business, in the eyes of church leaders, was too pressing to wait on.
“My reaction to the document was visceral,” she explains. “I indicated that I would not remain a member of the Presbyterian church if this document were to be approved at the PC(USA) Conference.”
Warne went on to explain that she‘s not sure if the other individuals in the meeting had a firm understanding of the document’s implications. Many of those serving on the Presbytery, she explained, may not be “politically astute,” thus their knowledge of Israeli-Palestinian relations may not be up to par. Interestingly, at the meeting she was told by her church pastor that the document originated at Westminster Presbyterian Church (as stated, this is Coetzee’s congregation).
“It is sad to see the daily reality of the occupation in the Palestinian territories. Life contains uncertainties and fear: the fear of having one’s house demolished, fear of deportation, fear of the inability to have sufficient food to feed one’s family, fear of not being able to reach a hospital in case of an emergency, fear of arrest and fear of sudden death due to violence. These are among the daily fears experienced by both Christian and Muslim Palestinians and are the bitter fruits of apartheid.”
As stated, this document is currently floating around at the local level, but the plan is to bring it up for review at the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (USA), the denomination’s biennial meeting that is slated to take place from June 30 until July 7, 2012 in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Westminster Presbyterian Church’s goal is to see the apartheid label and proposal be officially adopted by the PC(USA).
While the aforementioned words may be stunning to Israel’s supporters, this isn’t the first time that the Assembly has been pushed to accuse the nation of apartheid. At the 2010 meeting, this same call was rejected, with the committee saying, “While we are deeply concerned with the policies implemented by Israel in relation to the Palestinian territories and Palestinians under its jurisdiction, we believe that dialogue is hampered by words like ‘apartheid.’”
But the Christian community will need to wait until July to see whether the denomination has had a change of heart on the issue. Based on the speech and documentation coming from a subset of the PC(USA) community, there‘s no shortage of effort to amend the denomination’s official stance on the matter.
A screen shot from the Israel-Palestine Mission Network web site
This document is emerging at the same time the PC(USA) is fielding questions about its Israel-Palestine Mission Network. As The Blaze reported on Friday, the group and denomination have been accused by Jewish organizations of facilitating anti-Semitic and anti-Israel rhetoric.
Editor’s Note: It is important to note the difference between the Presbyterian Church (USA) and the Presbyterian Church in America. The former is the larger, more liberal of the two, with 2.3 million members and 11,000 congregations. PC(USA) has taken other leftist positions on issues such as gay marriage) The latter is much smaller, but is regarded as the more conservative denomination. As of 2000, it had 1,450 congregations and more than 306,000 members. There are also other denominations within the larger Presbyterian Church.
This article has been updated.
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Comments (132)
John_The_Beloved
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:22pmI’m really ashame of this church. If they had any idea, they would support Israel and it’s land. Being Christian also means becoming jewish being graffed into the tree of Abraham you partake with his people the hertitage of God. People forget our Faith is a jewish faith started long ago. The land of Israel belongs to us all- both Jew and Christian.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:33pmNo church with any morals could support the Zionist state of Israel. It’s practices are akin to the practices of the Reich years past, down to the production of an ethnically pure state. Radical fundamentalists are the only one’s capable of ignoring the facts and the history. And, we have plenty of those in this country.
Report Post »pjmarshake
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:36pmJOHN,
It’s by design. If we are fighting amongst ourselves, then we can’t organize against the true threat.
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:45pm“Being Christian also means becoming jewish being graffed into the tree of Abraham you partake with his people the hertitage of God.”
No, according to St Paul, becoming Jewish means becoming Christian. True Jews are children of the promise. Jesus is true Israel. Jesus is the suffering servant spoken of by the prophets. Not a piece of land. Read Stephens message in Acts before he was stoned to death. That was it. That was the end of the 70 weeks (which were appointed for Daniel and “his people,” i.e. ethnic Jews). If you know dispensational theology then you disagree of course….but I recommend Kim Riddlebarger, RW Glenn, and Gary Demar for a clear teaching of Amillenialism. Do not judge until you listen to it. It is not “replacement” theology. It is NOT antisemitic. May you see that Gods plan is to redeem His elect. PERIOD. We sit here and complain how bad things are. America is not the measuring stick…there are places where the gospel is thriving! This is the “already / not yet.” Please read. I am a former dispensationalist. I know what I am talking about. IN HIS SERVICE.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:07pmOnce again Smack, it’s Abbas and the Palestinians who are demanding that all Jews vacate the land they want to be part of their state. They are the ones seeking ethnic purity. The same reason was used for waging both the 1948 and 1967 wars against Israel. Before that it was the motivation behind the Arab Riots in the 20s and 30s. The Arabs are seeking an ethnically pure Middle East. Iran has called Israel a “cancer” i.e. an impurity that must be removed or destroyed.
Report Post »Grady Curve
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:08pm@ the Jerk, your name says it all…ALL People should stand with Israel and stamp out the lies coming from the muslims who are wanting to perform genocide on an entire race of people… and guess who is next after Israel… wake up Dumb @ss
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:10pm“Being Christian also means becoming jewish being graffed into the tree of Abraham… .”
Abraham was Hebrew, crossing over. He was not Jewish. Jews became Christians, origin of the word Judeo-Christian, not it’s political 20th century version. Abraham is the tree of Christianity. No grafting is required. Judaism, the religion, was not formed until 300-500 AD.
Need to learn some historical facts. Fundamentalism is the evil.
Report Post »GETLIFE
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:21pmThis congregation is being used. I see no discussion of the political history of the modern populations we call “Palistinians” living in Gaza and the West Bank– where they came from and when, and why they don’t go back.
Report Post »What led to the building of the wall?
OklahomaBound
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:22pmJust another commie leftist social-justice group falsely calling themselves a “Church” as they preach against both God’s word and his people.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:25pm@Jerk
Report Post »Abraham wasn’t a Jew? Um duh. The word Jew refers to the descendents of the destroyed Kingdom of Judea which was conquered in about 583 BCE. Judea was named after the tribe of Judah (which was descended from Judah), tribe from which its line of Kings came from. Jews had practiced their religion throughout their history. It under went certain changes following the destruction of the Temple in 70 CE but it’s still the same faith. I could argue that Christianity didn’t exist until the First Council of Nicaea in 325 CE since their was no agreed upon Christian faith prior to that time.
beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:25pmJerk-Why would you stand on the side of a people that want to commit genocide by wiping another people off of the face of the Earth? Why would you choose the side of a people who mutilate and enslave women over a people that honor, love and cherish women? Why the hate, Jerk? What caused this irrational bigotry?
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:17pm“Abraham was Hebrew, crossing over. He was not Jewish. Jews became Christians, origin of the word Judeo-Christian, not it’s political 20th century version. Abraham is the tree of Christianity. No grafting is required. Judaism, the religion, was not formed until 300-500 AD.
Need to learn some historical facts. Fundamentalism is the evil
”
you know you twist scripture just like satan, he hates jews too…just like you….
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:17pm“Why the hate, Jerk? What caused this irrational bigotry?”
Satan and his minions hate the jews….
Report Post »jhurin
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:40pmTo reply to the “The_Jerk,” you need to pull your head out of the sand you live in. All you do is spout your ignorance and refuse to acknowledge that Jesus is THE life, THE truth, and THE way. Any Christian who does not support Israel is either deceived or ignorant. I pray that God will open any Christian brother or sisters eyes to the truth. As well, even though you tick me off I choose to pray for you “The_Jerk.” God wants NO ONE to be lost and loves everyone unconditionally. No one is perfect and everyone falls short of salvation, but thanks be to GOD through His Son Jesus that we are saved THROUGH Christ. It is ONLY by asking Jesus to live in your heart will you be saved, and not by anything you’ve done or will do in the future. God will always protect His Church and Israel….bank on it.
Report Post »PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:51pmJews were in that region as long as if not before what is referred to as PALESTINIANS. The land that was Palestine was ripped off by JORDAN, Lebanon, SYRIA. The Land allocated by the UN to Israel was a tiny ‘sliver’. Millions and millions of acres were taken at that time – by what right? I say to the Palestinians: GO to JORDAN, LEBANON, SYRIA and ‘demand’ your land back…why try to get that sliver that is Israel?
Report Post »The answer is clear: They just want to run Israel off of the planet.
YOU can NOT negotiate with people who want you wiped off the face of the world.
INSTEAD of facing that fact, Presidents who have been trying to gain a gold star for their legacy have pushed foolishly forward trying to accomplish the impossible.
INSTEAD they should have gone back to the pre 1947 (UN Charter on Israel) and demanded that SYRIA/JORDAN and LEBANON fork back over the land they just took. THINK a neighborhood in chaos and guys from the next city over coming in and moving the property lines while no one was looking.
There is so much land there to give ISRAEL the security they deserve; The Palestinians (who, BTW have never been a ‘country’ but tribes who occupied that area of the Middle East. IT was those tribes also BTW who took parts of the Old and New Testaments and added ‘rules’ they liked and Islam was formed.. It’s not even that simple: Islam is in two parts: Shi’ite and Sunni. THEY are hysterical CONTINUED
PATTY HENRY
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:02pmCONTINUED: UN designated small sliver of land for ISRAEL after WW II; Jews have always lived there. Jews/Arabs/Christians have always live there in peace prior to UN. (figures) Then the bull in the China shop UN boys totally botched this establishment of Israel. Beaten, Angry people from the Holocaust of Europe showed up … etc and you know this part. What you may not know is 3 countries scoffed up land from the area known as Palestine, and no one, not UN, not USA, no one said zilch about it. There would have been more than enough land for both Palestinians and Israelis.
Report Post »FACTIOD: Many Palestinians work in Israel, are considered Israeli Citizens and they all get along..so who doesn’t (get along?) the MUSLIM Brotherhood, they want to control it all. THEY are fanatics. THE god they worship has -0- to do with the GOD who created the UNIVERSE. They fight among themselves – they have two Messiahs’- that they fight over. They have -0- to do with the REAL GOD. REAL GOD doesn’t tolerate any of the EVIL they bring. SO, Instead of rolling over ISRAEL, why not demand that SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN give back land. DEMAND that this “wipe Israel off face of earth” STOP. NO more USA $ to “Palestine” until they stop the shelling of Israel.
The Palestinians have made up quite a “sad story” they try to sell the world. They are nothing but tools for the very EVIL ISLAM. Don’t BUY it. Shame on any Christian Church who goes against GOD’S CHOSEN PEOPLE.
tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:04pm@Patty Henry
Report Post »Speaking of Jordan, anyone notice how the “Arab Spring” managed to miss that totalitarian regime? King Abdullah is part of an Arabian minority ruling over a “Palestinian” majority which also makes up the largest portion of Palestinians by population. In other words, if the Arab Spring had hit Jordan, Palestinians would have had a state that was ruled by a Palestinian majority while if Israel had forked over the territories the newly formed state would have more Palestinians living outside of it than in it.
pavepaws
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:25pmSounds like the Presbyterian church can’t get themselves together. Too many internal factions. It’s going to fragment the church to its destruction.
Report Post »Locked
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:33pmI don’t agree with all of The_Jerk’s claims (his views about the global Jewish cabals destroying the US, for example), but some of them are right. Israel has committed atrocities: fact. They have defied international law and kept Palestinians separated and lacking in power: fact.
Now, that doesn’t change the fact that the Palestinians have had a major hand in their own situation. They launch rockets at Israeli civilian areas: fact. Hamas is (appropriately) labeled a terrorist group: fact. Palestinian militants frequently use their own people as human shields: fact.
Looking at the situation, both sides have done terrible things. I stand with Jews; I don’t stand with Israel without reservation, because frankly they‘ve just the lesser of two evils and I don’t think either side deserves our material support.
The US should wipe their hands of the situation and stop meddling. Just say to Israel “Hey, we’ve given you guns, training, nuclear knowledge, and financial aid… for decades! Now you’re all grown up, and your decisions are on your own head. Want to keep oppressing Palestinians and assassinating Iranian scientists? Deal with the consequences. Everyone knows if they start a war you’re the only country in the Middle East who can nuke their opponents. Best of luck.”
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:37pmTZion, you proved my point. Judah was a descendant of Abram.
“Abram, is the eponym of the Abrahamic religions, among which are Judaism, Christianity and Islam. According to both the Hebrew Bible and the Qur’an, through his sons Ishmael and Isaac, Abraham is the forefather of many tribes, namely the Ishmaelites, Israelites, Midianites and Edomites. Abraham was a descendant of Noah’s son, Shem. Christians believe that Jesus was a descendant of Abraham through Isaac, and Muslims believe that Muhammad was also descendant of Abraham through Ishmael.” -wiki
Abraham was Chaldean, present day, Iraq. Jews were citizens from Judah, much later and nowhere near Iraq. If you called Abraham a Jew, he’d have look at you like you were from Mars, ’cause there were no Jews during his lifetime.
Report Post »And, it should be noted that the Jews from Judah did not practice Judaism. Judaism, the religion, came 300-500 years after Christ, and he had no love of the Pharisees (rabbinic)… from which Judaism has its roots.
Jesus was not a Jew from Judah, nor was he a Samaritan from the land north of Judah, Samaria. Jesus was Galilean from Galilee. Jesus did not practice Judaism, nor did he like Judaism’s precursor, the sect called Pharisee-ism. Nor did he adhere to another sect called Sadducee-ism. There is some belief that he was more Essene, like his cousin, John the Baptist.
rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:45pm“but some of them are right. Israel has committed atrocities: fact. They have defied international law and kept Palestinians separated and lacking in power: fact. ”
BS and lies…‘palestinians’ can vote in israeli elections…how many jews can vote in elections in the lands of islam? hmmm??
they turned over land for peace…and the palestinians can’t abide a SINGLE jew living amongst them….so how are the palestinians ‘lacking in power’ when they shoot missiles into israel??? hmmm???
your anti-semitism is showing.
Report Post »rush_is_right
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:47pm“Abraham was Chaldean, present day, Iraq. Jews were citizens from Judah, much later and nowhere near Iraq. If you called Abraham a Jew, he’d have look ”
uh I doubt that…given his grandson was called Israel…get a clue mustafa….
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:13pm@JERK
Report Post »Your mixing up the Kingdom of Judea that was destroyed by the Babylonians with the province of Judea that existed under Roman rule. AGAIN. I’ve corrected you on this at least twice yet you continue to state your misinformation as fact. Jesus, as a descendent of Abraham through the Kingdom of Judea, ruled by the Davidic Monarchy, is, by definition, a Jew. His ancestors lived in Judea under Hezekiah and others. The region Judea is named after the Jews who lived there. Same goes for Samaria and the Samaritans. Jesus may have been Galilean, but he was a Galilean Jew. If your argument was true only Israelis living in modern day Judea are Jews.
WalkTheTalk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:20pmBeing a Zionist has NOTHING to do with being a Christan….Wake UP. Christ called us to spread the good news to all the nations…not to get involved in political wars of hate. We are to always have a heart for Jewish people but we have NO ATHORITY to judge whether anyone is worthy of hearing the good news. Egypt , Jordon , Syria , Lebanon and Turkey are all places that the original disciples went to spread the good news…there are Christians in those nations. WE are Christians NOT zionists. The people some of you want to see killed are the vary people we are called the share the gospel with.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 5:31pm@Walk- I am a Christain Zionist. I support Israel because they are a free society and an ally who are surrounded by people that want them wiped off of the face of the Earth. I support them being able to defend their women and chidren from those who have bought into the evil belief that they must be destroyed. I support Israel because I am a Christian and the Savior that I profess belief in is of their seed. I support Israel because my Bible which I read every day tells me that they are God’s chosen people and that he will bless those who bless them. I believe God not men. I support Israel because the prophecies in the Bible tell me that God will defend them in the future and I don’t wish to be an enemy of God.
Report Post »4XGrace
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 6:23pmTruly the evil that is “religion” comes to the surface. All the doctrinal crap that people have been polluted with comes out and then they are forced to accept a definition of God and Christianity which is baseless and sacrilegious. How people in “Christian” churches get that we are Israel now? St. Upid idea. We are grafted INTO God’s righteousness which was before reserved only for his chosen people. What you get from participating in a church established by men is not God‘s doctrine or God’s wisdom or God‘s love but a load of man’s doctrine, man‘s wisdom and man’s love (for himself and not God; not charity but prideful lust).
Where do they get that defending one’s self from an intractable, belligerent, bigoted and implacable people is apartheid? The wisdom of man is a wonderful thing isn’t it?
Report Post »TerryDo
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:04pmJerk you have pick an appropriate name for yourself.
Palestinians are a front, a group of people forced to assume the front line for the rest of the Arab world against Israel. Palestinians should disperse and go back and live in their lost countries i.e., Egypt, Iran, Syria etc.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:04pmTZion, once again, the Kingdom Of Judah, also called the Southern Kingdom, was not the Northern Kingdom, aka the Kingdom of Israel. It was established in the Iron Age. The people of the Northern Kingdom were Israelite not Jew. Samaria and Galilee were both descendents of the Northern Kingdom, not the Kingdom of Judah; Samaritans and Galilean, respectively. Christ was from Galilee.
Joseph, the husband of Mary, was not the father of Christ, making Mathews genealogy of Joseph moot. And, it should be noted that Luke and Mathew do not agree on the genealogy. Jesus was not a Jew and he most certainly did not practice Judaism, founded 300-500 AD.
Report Post »The_Jerk
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:19pm1) American and European Jews took Palestinian land, homes, and businesses. Reich.
2) Jews moved the Palestinians to ghettos, and are today walling in those ghettos. Reich.
3) Palestinians are required to have different license plates than Jews (ironically yellow). Jews do not have to go through road checkpoints and Jews can use Jew only roads. Reich.
4) Palestinians are not permitted to build, rent… live in specific areas. Reich.
Can’t claim victim-hood then, if Palestinians are not the victims now. Look up the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine. It is footnoted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ethnic_Cleansing_of_Palestine_%28Book%29#Critics
Report Post »QuranIsCorruptAndMuhammadPossessedBySatan
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:32pmQuran says Israel is for Israelis NOT Palestinians.
Also why is a Christian church so interested in protecting Muslims when Muslims are killing and repressing Christians in Pakistan, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and other Muslims countries?
Where are they standing up for the Christians in those lands? They ARE Christians after all.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:41pm@Jerk
Report Post »WRONG WRONG WRONG. The northern kingdom was destroyed and its people was exiled over 700 years beforehand. Ever hear of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel and the Assyrian Exile? There lost because no one is sure what happened to them. There are theories as to what happened to some, including a group of Ethiopians that some hold are from the tribe of Dan. Samaritans are considered a separate group to this day whose origins are disputed. Also, Israelite refers to descendents of Israel, another name for Jacob, so Judeans (later Jews) are also Israelites in the traditional sense (their ancestor were at Mt. Sinai).
Conversely, when the southern kingdom was destroyed, its population was sent to Babylon instead of being dispersed and many returned to Judea after Persia conquered Babylonia. Upon returning, they gradually resettled the entire region including the Galilee.
tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:58pm@Jerk
1. During the early days of Zionist immigration, the area known as Palestine was scarcely populated. Jews purchased land and settled unowned land. They even turned areas that had previously been desert or swampland into fertile land.
2. If your referring to refugee camps, those came into existence after Arabs left the newly formed state of Israel in 1948. While Israel spent the next 19 years rehabilitating the Jewish refugees they absorbed (which amounted to more than the Arabs) while Jordan and Egypt did nothing to help their fellow Arabs. Israel didn’t put them there. Remember, the Arabs attacked first.
Walling in the “ghettos”? The “wall” is to separate the Judea-Samaria region inhabited by Palestinians from Israel proper and was built for security purposes (compare to building a border fence along the border with Mexico). In addition, the barrier is a fence for the most part and, like any border fence, can be passed through at checkpoints. If they get their state, would either side be happy with an open border?
3. License plates? Do Israeli Arabs have different plates? Plates are based on citizenship which Palestinians in the territories apparently don’t want anyways.
4. So? Jews aren’t allowed to live in certain areas either. In fact, in 2005 the Israeli army was ordered to forcibly remove many Jews from their homes and businesses. None of them are allowed to go back.
Report Post »Israel’s not perfect, but their not ethnically cleansing their country.
WD021
Posted on April 5, 2012 at 3:31pmI am with you and have also chosen to leave the PC. There is a small radical segment/infection of this church and PCUSA that are acting as if they were a majority, trying to bully the actual majority into accepting a warped AGENDA as the truth.
Report Post »Shame on them and all that recognize this and yet don’t speak out. “All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men and women to do nothing” – Apathy is no longer an option people!
To: The_Jerk (appropriate moniker)
From today’s HuffPost:
“Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, separated by a border fence from Israel, have fired thousands of rockets into Israel in recent years. Israel has responded to Gaza rocket fire with military reprisals and the deployment of a rocket-interception system known as Iron Dome.”
Palastinians are the aggressors and they know that Israel will tolerate only so much and then pound them back 10 times harder – EVERYTIME – not once in awhile, but EVERYTIME! Duh, leave the Israelis alone and they won’t need to attack you BACK. Same old palastinian propaganda, “those horrible Israelis attacked us and killed women and children” They are just like ignorant little children – “Now little Achmed, who threw the first rocket? I did mommy. And who then hid amongst women and children and in mosques and other places heavily populated with civilians so you could claim “they killed women and chidren”? I did mommy…sigh! Just as we do, the Iraelis have the right and obligation to defend their country a
Mark B.
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:20pmWow! Professed churches of God, whom Christ referred to as His branches, don’t even know the scriptures. Since when is sovereignty apatheid?
Report Post »girlnurse
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:32pmThey get to be tax deductible tho! Just like Westboro Baptists who hide behind the 5013c tax exemption to spout their retoric.
Report Post »democritusoilder267
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:19pmThis is sad when people see the world in black & white. To me Israel is not perfect; but it is one of the few countries in the Middle East I would support. Most of the countries or areas like Palestine are so bad off. A couple days ago I was reading about the Taliban and one picture of arrested suicide bombers had this caption: “In most cases, these tribal militants are very poor and uneducated people from the Pakistani side of the Durand Line border who are misled by Pakistani mullahs that killing fellow Afghan Muslims and ISAF members will earn them a place in paradise…” You can see why many people in the Middle East, Africa and else where are willing to fight for these groups. I feel the U.S. and our allies have a bad strategy. We’re fighting a losing war. do not get me wrong I know we can win if we knew how to fight them. They already led us into their trap; we cannot install governments that will only fall as we leave.
Report Post »mike_trivisonno
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:19pmI would suggest that the Presbyterians stop heeding the admonitions of their muslim “advisors”.
They are deceived.
Report Post »rose-ellen
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 5:20pmisrael can have peace if they would return to the original 1948 borders.Allarabs including hamas have said they’d recognize israel then.though they’kk always believe it was immoral to create a zionist european state there to begin with. israel out of pride will not make peace with hamas cause they want everyone to believe the creation of israel was a noble thing. they also want to keep the land they seized in 67 which is illigal to do.They want jerusalem but by law jerusalem should be returned to the palestinans arabs now occupied. israel insists on being jewish majority-that is apartheid racism.Hope this church does not back down-though the propaganda against theis church is in full swing as it always is when anyone goes against the false narrative about israel.please don’t back down.this is still america.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:09pm@Rose
What 1948 borders? In 1948 the ARABS said that those borders had no legal status and neither did the suggested partition plan proposed by the UN. It was an armistice line. Secondly, what is illegal about holding the territories. Jordan and Egypt did it for 19 years and no one complained. Third, return it to the Palestinians? When did the Palestinians control that region? Fourth, if Hamas doesn‘t recognize Israel’s right to exist, how can Israel negotiate with them? Fifth, if all they wanted was the 1948 “borders” why was the PLO founded in 1964 with the purpose of turning the entirety of Israel into part of the Palestinian State. Ever see the emblem of the PLO/PA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plo_emblem.png
I don’t see Israel, do you?
Report Post »dmerwin
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 11:50am@Rose-Ellen
Report Post »Why stop there? In reality the stated purpose of Hamas which is the leading faction in the Palestinian Authority demand the absolute destruction of Israel and the Jewish people living there as does Iran and virtually every wahhabist(sp) Imam. Now I’m sure the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt will soon produce a statement of the same sort. You are very naive or basically want Israel to commit collective suicide. La Raza wants a return to the 17th century borders in the US are you in favor of that as well?
txn4justice
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:17pmI don;t like the Palestinian people, how about you?
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 6:37pmI don’t KNOW any Palestinians.
Report Post »dmerwin
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 12:02pmI don’t like Hamas or the PLO or Black September or any other terrorist groups. Funny how the best known Palestinians are terrorists. Now I know there are Palestinians who like people around the world just want to live their lives and raise their kids, some of them worked in Israel, many worked as labor in Saudi and Kuwait where they are treated as less than people, ironically in Israel they have rights they do not have in Arab countries. I really don’t like the lady that was dancing and passing out candy in the streets on 9/11, in fact I don’t recall any Palestinian statement of support following that day. Even though we fund their existence.
Report Post »Mike777
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:17pmI stand with Israel
Report Post »Jenny Lind
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:42pmMe too, and I am sick of “Christian” churches thinking they have any right to decide what Israel should do or not do. Aparthid my foot, jerks and deceivers of their congregations to teach that kind of hate.
Report Post »JP4JOY
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:15pmOur family left the PCUSA last year when they adopted the poltiy of ordination of openly GBLT pastors, elders,deacons,and other teaching and staff positions. I don’t flaunt my sexual orientation and believe it to be something to be kept personal and private not flaunted and in your face. My wife and I had a difficult time leaving a lot of folks we loved at our church. Many disagreed with the PCUSA decision, few left the church. We feel we did the right thing for our children.
On the point of other denominations above, Methodists and Episcopalians are in the same boat as PCUSA.
Report Post »ashtongramp
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 4:21pmYou are brave and smart. It’s well informed and smart thinking people like you that give us all hope.
Report Post »Patrick Henry II
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:20pmJP4Joy
Report Post »Might I suggest the Evangelical Presbiterian Church. A small spinoff; they seperated off when the Presbiterians took the position of the Bible being falible and flawed. They have all the “niceness” of SBC with the all of the scholarly feel of what you may be used to. They also consider all things in light of Scripture. That solves most issues.
cookcountypatriot
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:10pmyes indeed its time for all good progressive lemmings to hate the jews…just like the germans did in the 1930,s….perfect roadmap for the lemmings to follow…and someday when your kneeling in front of a muslim begging for your life…dont say you were not warned…
Report Post »Dstarr55
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:06pmI find it rather strange that a church would take such a stand given the biblical aspect of Israel. I would also point out that Arabs live peacefully in Israel but a Jew could not even walk into Gaza without being killed. It is simple really, if the Palestinians would put down their arms there would be peace but if the Jews were to do the same, there would be slaughter. The severe measures Israel takes is because of the violence of the Palestinians who would easily bomb a bus of school children as they would celebrate the murder of a Jewish family. It is not the doctrine of Israel to obliterate the Palestinians but it is the mission of the Palestinians to annihilate the Jews.
Report Post »Biddle
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:45pmJesus is Israel.
KIM RIDDLEBARGER – Amillenialism. check it.
Report Post »American Honor
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:52pmVery well put.
Report Post »TomTraubert
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:04pmTake a look at the church’s facebook, and those who are celebrating this idiocy, and it‘s a virtual who’s who of the university faculty set at Wooster College and Case Western Reserve along with this South African fool. Want to find your local anti-semitism hotbed? Forget the klan, check your local university staff.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:54pmTrue enough or your mainstream media news room.
Report Post »truthb4fiction
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:02pmPlease note>>>> there is more than one presbyterian church!!!!!! The (PCA) Presbyterian Church in America is nothing like the Presbyterian Church (USA) Glenn needs to use a rifle not a shotgun on this one!!! Please many of us PCA types are 912 and Mercury One folks!! 1700′s era Orthodoxy and Conservative Principles.. BIG Difference between the two!
Report Post »Micmac
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:23pmRead the Editor’s Notes above.
NoBama
Report Post »truthb4fiction
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:43pmNever mind…
Report Post »lilmjomac
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:15pmPresbyterian PCA love Israel.
Report Post »GclefGinger
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 3:46pmAmem TruthB4Fiction! Sad that PC (USA) should soil the name “Presbyterian.” I married into the PCA church family, a group founded firmly on gospel truths. And our beliefs stand firmly with honoring our Hebrew forefathers and the children of Israel. There are dire consequences to those who would wish ill upon the Israeli people. (Warnes come to the PCA, and bring your parishoners. Not to saying I would negate the thousands of Godly denominations. God blesses us all. But as Revelations say, there are those lamps that God will put out. )
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:02pmHow dare Israel protect itself from those professing to wipe it off the map…..
Report Post »wboehmer
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:01pmGenesis 12:3 “I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
Report Post »American Honor
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:56pmI was just thinking the same thing but couldn’t remember the verse – thank you for sharing.
Report Post »thegreatcarnac
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:01pmI will stand with Israel. The only thing I am at odds with is the fact that Israel declares their nation strictly for the Jews and at the same time, Jews in the USA are mostly squarely in the camp of the people advocating free admission to the US for everyone else. They are pro-illegal aliens. THey cannot have it both ways. I understand the need for keeping Israel strictly for the Jews, but at the same time, liberal jews in America must , must realize the need for our borders also.
Report Post »beckwasfox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 2:10pmChristians and muslims live and work in Israel too!
Report Post »momprayn
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:00pmSame ol, same ol. Satanic strategy of trying to get so-called “churches” to be on his side to help with his war and hate towards Israel. Been going on for a very, very, very long time. This “church” is in apostasy, as too many others are as well….and warned about in the Bible. Many are also taught that Israel has been “replaced” by the Christian church – God has rejected her forever. This is another satanic strategy & false.
Report Post »For those that are taught this, please do your own research – see Romans 11. God has never “forgotten” or forsaken her and will keep His promises – which is protection and eventually many being saved in the end times. – in fact unprecedented numbers are being converted to Christianity as we speak. All “Christians” who do not support her are not in God’s “good graces” shall we say. He will bless all who do and His promises to Abraham have not been taken back. Pray that more and more will come to these important realizations b/c it will affect what God does with America.
Both “social justice” and this “replacement theology” is false so beware. Remember, do your own research about everything you are “told” guys…..too many are “sincerely wrong” as well as those who are wrong “on purpose”.
elihu
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:07pm@MOMPRAYN,
Report Post »I agree with all points in your comments. The only suggestion I would like to make is that most of these folks in the large denominational ‘churches’ are only “professing christians” (lower-case intentional).
Shalom!
momrules
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:27pmMomprayn…………I recently learned about Replacement Theology. I was literally horrified that this is being taught and believed.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:55amLand under “Palestinian Control” in 1947 and 1947? The Palestinians didn’t even have a provisional government in 1947 and those territories were ruled by the Hashemite regime of Transjordan (Jordan) and Egypt. The Palestinians didn’t even exist as a grouping. How do people buy into this fallacy?
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:19pmWere those people who now call themselves Palestinians born there?
Report Post »JohnnyMidknight
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:24pm@ justangry
So were the Jews. So, what is your point?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine
The Ottoman Empire was dissolved an became various nations and areas. The British were in control of “Palestine”. By Ottoman laws, the Jewish had to support their own institutions and schools (IE segregation). The Jews (as well as Christian) were called dhimmi and were subject to:
A special tax (the jizya);
A prohibition against carrying arms;
A prohibition against riding horses;
A prohibition against building new houses of worship or repairing old ones;
Prohibitions against public processions and worship;
A prohibition against proselytism;
A requirement to wear distinctive clothing;
A prohibition against building homes higher than Muslim ones.
http://jewishhistory.research.wesleyan.edu/i-jewish-population/5-ottoman-empire/
Upon the dissolving of the Ottoman Empire, the British placed a High Commissioner (Civilian) to oversee the region. The Jews were the first to be recognized by the Commissioner on April 19, 1920. However this caused problems with the Muslim leaders, as this meant the Jews had equal standing. This is why Israel was made, because multiple attempts were made to separate the lands with a two state solution. But to the Muslims, it is all or nothing.
http://www.projetaladin.org/holocaust/en/muslims-and-jews/muslims-and-jews-in-history/jews-in-the-ottoman-empire-and-turkey.html
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:37pm@Justangry
Report Post »Many of those who consider themselves Palestinians today were born there or are descended from those who were born there. However, in 1947 Palestinian just referred to anyone living in under the British Mandate of Palestine, closer in meaning to Israeli today than to a Jew for instance. Ethnically they were either considered Arabs or Syrians. To this day in fact, Syria insists that both Jordan and Israel (which together account for the entire British Mandate) are really just part of Southern Syria. Palestine isn’t an Arabic word, or even a Semitic one, so it would be completely illogical for a group of Muslims or Arabs to use that word as a title prior to the arrival of the British. Moreover, the vast majority of those who we’d consider to be Palestinian live in and are native to Jordan, which is ruled by King Abdullah, a Hashemite whose family originated from the Arabian peninsula.
justangry
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:03pm@Johnnymidnight, I really wasn‘t out to make a point other than it’s their homeland too.
@TZION, From my limited understanding a lot of the problems we see today are a result of borders established by the Allies following WW2. I’ve heard, but haven’t researched, that many of those borders intentionally split tribal areas for the purpose of promoting infighting between various factions, thus keeping them weak by design. You seem to have a good grasp on middle eastern history, so… is this true?
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 8:42pm@Justangry
Report Post »Absolutely true. Look at Iraq. Shiite majority yet until recently it was only ever ruled by Sunnis. Instead of negotiating borders with with those who’d be living there, the European powers talked among themselves how they would split up the region. Imperialism and arrogance.
WD021
Posted on April 5, 2012 at 3:46pmAfter the 6 Day War (6 Days and they still don’t get it – the Israelis ate your lunch back then and everytime the Palastinians attack them, they do it again! The true definition of insanity. Cause and effect people) the “Palastinians” were the people left behind by their own countries because they weren’t pure *insert name of country here* and promised land to stay. Their OWN counties betrayed them and somehow the Iraelis are blamed for all of their woes? Give me a break!
Report Post »momrules
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:55am” God is using Westminister and the Presbyterian Church (USA) in a very special way.” contends Coetzee.
What this sad man and this congregation does not realize is that they are, in fact, are being used by Satan.
God said this would happen. Israel is HIS and the forces of evil hate Him and Israel.
Antisemitism is on the rise again, anti Israel movements are blooming and Islam is thriving.
Time to start connecting the dots folks.
Report Post »GeorgieJo
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:06pmTime for me to find another church. This saddens me. This minister in Ohio doesn’t recognize that Satan is working. He’s from South Africa and now “preaching” in Ohio.
Thank You Jesus I don’t live in Ohio.
I stand with Israel!!!
Report Post »Ghandi was a Republican
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:54amI propose a trust fund whereby we put Presbyterian headquarters just inside Israel’s historic borders of old… We all need a little skin in the games we play.
Report Post »mapgirl10
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:54amThe very Elect will be deceived!
Report Post »humbled
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:49amMy family left the Presbyterian Church back in the 70′s when we found out they were actively supporting the Nicaraguan Sandinistas (Marxist regime).
Report Post »DoctorRon
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:49amWhat about the Palestinians desire to “kill all Jews”? That is hardly in the spirit of “love one another.”
Report Post »hi
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:48amWhy don’t they care about the Palestinian gender apartheid? I don’t see Israel mutilating non-Jews private parts when they turn 13, or forcing non-Jews to wear burkas.
Report Post »majasdad
Posted on February 15, 2012 at 4:54am@HI
Report Post »You obviously know nothing about the Palestinian people. You are cherry picking the most extremely fanatical aspects of a small portion of muslims and saying that they apply to all muslims. That’s like saying that all Christians support the ideas of the Westboro Baptist Church. You are an ignorant fool. Do some proper research.
lukerw
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:46amBlasphemy — a HiJacked Church!
Report Post »freedom4ever
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:45ami THINK i read somewhere the united methodist are doing the samething – can someone find out if i am right? why are they turning against israel? i know if i belonged to one of the churches that sponsered that i would NEVER step foot inside one again and i would make sure my name was removed from their list!! don’t want my name against God!
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:56amYes the United Methodist church is taking a very similar stance. We recently removed our names from their member list.
Report Post »MidWestMom
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:06pmhttp://www.umc-gbcs.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=frLJK2PKLqF&b=6683235&ct=9284281
No mention of how many peace treaties the palestinians broke or the peace talks they refused to attend. No mention of palestinian suicide bombers. No mention of the constant palestinian attacks against Israel. No mention of palestinian support of terrorist groups.
Report Post »justangry
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 12:17pmPerhaps they think Israel’s leaders are treating other human beings poorly. I’ve heard both sides of the story, and I am unable to decipher the truth. There are some things that Israel’s leaders are doing that I believe is wrong. Supressing freedom of speech by making references to Hitler illegal, for one. Also, if recent reports are accurate, teaming up with terror groups to assasinate theoretical scientists is terrorism. Israel’s immigration policies also seem racist only accepting Jewish people to maintain population supremacy. I mean, all the Christians out there, who stand by Israel, can immigrate to Israel IF they essentially renounce Jesus as their savior and are certified to be Jewish by a rabbi. I don’t know. All the Jewish folks I’ve known have been good people, but so have all the muslims I’ve met. All I know is I‘m too ignorant to pick a side and I’m unwilling to accept that my god has a choosen race. When I find my god, he‘ll love everyone equally based on their individual actions and won’t be a collectivist.
Report Post »tzion
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 1:17pm@Justangry
Report Post »I respect and understand your uncertainty and believe their are many Jews who have similar concerns over some Israeli policies. I personally, despite my support for Israel’s right to defend itself, believe that the Israeli political system actively promotes government corruption. As for your concerns over the whole “chosen people” issue, that‘s something that’s often misunderstood. The Israelites, from whom the Jews are descended, were approached by G-d with whom they entered into a covenant. G-d didn’t command the Jews so much as the Jews agreed to follow G-d’s commands. only Jews are held responsible for the contents of the covenant while everyone else is judged based on general morality. In other words, Jews believe that they are judged MORE strictly than non-Jews.
justangry
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 7:38pm@TZION
“As for your concerns over the whole “chosen people” issue, that‘s something that’s often misunderstood.”
Fair enough. That’s a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I hope some of the Christian Blazers that also seem confused by what it means are paying attention to your explanation as well. I am perfectly fine with Israel defending itself as any country should. Though sometimes I think their leaders aren’t doing them any favors in that regard. It seems like standing by Isreal would also include being brave enough to stand up and throw the BS flag when their leadership isn’t acting responsibly. I mean you can‘t prevent your little brother from getting stung if they poke a hornet’s nest. Sometimes, a little hard love is the best remedy for them to learn. That, to me, is standing with Israel. I don‘t think we’re going to see peace there until we stop meddling and let them sort it out themselves and that saddens me. This doesn’t mean I support Palestinian suicide bombers, rocket attacks, etc. Many of their actions are truly deplorable. That being said, I would also support providing missile defense to prevent things from getting totally out of hand as well as having carrier battle groups close by.
BTW Thanks for not jumping on my case. I’m tired of being called an anti-semite on this site when I don’t hate a soul, other than our politicians who crap on our Constitution.
Report Post »Tri-ox
Posted on February 14, 2012 at 11:37amLOL – Israel protecting itself against terrorists is not “apartheid” – the palestinian threat must be contained.
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