Faith

‘Pulpit Freedom Sunday’: Pastors Defy IRS by Talking Politics

It may seem like a twist right from the start but the Alliance Defense Fund says ‘Pulpit Freedom Sunday’ is not about getting preachers to talk more about politics:

“ADF is not trying to get politics into the pulpit.  Churches can decide for themselves that they either do or don’t want their pastors to speak about electoral candidates.  The point of the Pulpit Initiative is very simple:  the IRS should not be the one making the decision by threatening to revoke a church’s tax-exempt status.  We need to get the government out of the pulpit.”

About 100 pastors plan to “bait” the IRS today by making political statements during their church services. Something expressly forbidden by the IRS.

Pulpit Freedom Sunday: Pastors Defy IRS by Talking Politics

ADF Senior Legal Counsel Erik Stanley argues that tax-exempt status is not a government subsidy:

“Churches were completely free to preach about candidates from the day that the Constitution was ratified in 1788 until 1954.  That’s when the unconstitutional rule known as the ‘Johnson Amendment’ was enacted. Churches are exempt from taxation under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy religion than to begin taxing it.  As the U.S. Supreme Court has noted, the power to tax involves the power to destroy.  The real effect of the Johnson Amendment is that pastors are muzzled for fear of investigation by the IRS.”

‘Pulpit Freedom Sunday’ does have some significant detractors:

“It puts congregations in an awkward position. It’s not a wise thing for churches to endorse candidates. We think candidates should endorse us,” said Richard Land, president of the Southern Baptist Convention’s Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.

Land said the church endorses many of the defense fund’s initiatives, but “we think the mixing of the sacred nature of the church with the exceedingly worldly nature of politics is. .. unseemly.”

USA Today talked to the ADF’s “polar opposite“:

Americans United for Separation of Church and State, issued a statement this week calling pulpit-based lawbreaking “the worst idea ever.”

“Clergy serve as spiritual advisers, not political bosses. Pulpit politicking violates federal tax law and offends the vast majority of church-goers,” said the Rev. Barry W. Lynn, the group’s executive director.

“The nation is already bitterly divided over politics this year.. .. Now, Religious Right political hacks want to haul that divisiveness into America’s houses of worship.

“Clergy should just say no.”

Last month Glenn Beck talked with David Barton of Wallbuilders about the message of the day:

And Alan Sears of the ADF presented his case for Pulpit Freedom Sunday at the Values Voters Conference:

The ADF plans to release a list of participating pastors later this week. In the American Thinker, Cindy Simpson writes: “I can see November from my pew. What I hear about November from the pulpit is another story.”

Comments (327)

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  • RojBlake
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:53am

    The IRS will have 1 heck of a quandry, if they bring suit these churches will be able to bring video of Pelosi & Obama calling on churches to “preach politics” from the pulpit.

    Report Post » RojBlake  
    • PeachyinGA
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:58pm

      Thank you both for your convictions and bravery. I have vowed I will do the same if I hear these or other liberal principles coming from our pastor because then I would know he has landed on the wrong side of the debate. I don’t anticipate it, but if it happens, I plan to send a letter of my discontent and plan to change churches unless there is an apology from the altar. There is plenty of scripture to back up my views.

      Report Post » PeachyinGA  
    • PeachyinGA
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:19pm

      Sorry~the cyber gremlins got me. Don’t know how this got posted under your comment since I had not even gotten to the bottom of the page. Apologies. I’ve reposted to its intended location.

      Report Post » PeachyinGA  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:46pm

      MLK preached peacefull resistence. Great priniple. What would happen if every pulpit preached our Constitutional prinicpals. How would the IRS/governnebt have enough courts and jails to put the Pastors in? If I were a Pastor, I would refuse to pqay the taxes and accept a jail sentence.

      This is what MLK did.

      Report Post »  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:01pm

      Excellent point, ROBJBLAKE – I forgot about Pelosi & Obama calling on preachers to preach politics…

      Report Post » beekeeper  
  • beekeeper
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:52am

    When a liberal asks you why this should be repealed, very simply remind them that this restriction was slipped into the tax code by one lone senator, was not debated on the floor of either Congress or the Senate, and reversed over 150 years of standing Constitutional Law and understanding.

    Do they agree with the idea that a lone Senator can reverse/eliminate Constitutional Law?

    Report Post » beekeeper  
    • troyvar
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:18am

      See, this is why we need to keep educating ourselves. Thank-you, now I’ll go verify it.

      Report Post » troyvar  
    • Dodsfall
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 1:34pm

      “Do they agree with the idea that a lone Senator can reverse/eliminate Constitutional Law?”

      Yes, Yes they do. They strongly believe that the “ruling class elite” shouldn‘t regard the Constitution or the People’s wishes in the least if they feel what they are doing is important. (Or can net them some cash) It’s the same way oligarchies work.

      Report Post » Dodsfall  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 9:59pm

      Please, do verify what I say -I’m honored you take what I right worth questioning, rather than dismissing or accepting what I say out of hand.

      As for my rhetorical question “Do they think…” – my issue was when the politics turn, and a different party owns the Houe or Senate, will they still believe it?

      Report Post » beekeeper  
  • Tate
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:50am

    Live free or Die is not just a Slogan.

    If you havn‘t seen ’The Book of Eli’ watch it.

    Report Post »  
  • beekeeper
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:47am

    Sen. L. B. Johnson, under intense pressure from two non-profits in his re-election campaign slipped the so-called “Johnson Amendment into the Tax Code, prior to 1954 it was legal for a pastor (or any non-profit 501(c)3 organization to speak on anything, as the 1st Amendment provided. Rather than not be re-elected, Sen. Johnson sacrificed the 1st Amendment to secure his own political future.

    Repeatedly this tax code amendment has been attacked, but those who mis-understand the “establishment clause” of the Constitution have won out every time.

    Here’s an interesting op-ed from the NY Times back in October, 2008 when H.R. 2275 was re-introduced to try and repeal this unconstitutional part of the tax code:

    http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/politics-and-the-pulpit-once-again/

    Here’s a link to bill from 2008 H.R. 2275:

    http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2275

    And here’s a useful “landing page” at the irs.gov website that links to lots of good informationon this topic, updated in October of 2008:

    http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=161131,00.html

    Report Post » beekeeper  
  • davecoolworld
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:47am

    Befor the healthcare vote last year, the Rabbi at my synagog was talking about how everyone deserves to have healthcare etc. He was about 2 minutes into his sermon when I and my 2 children got up and left. I have not spoken with him since, as I believe he is corrupt and was using his position to politicize my synagog. I now attend another synagog.
    The IRS will become the brownshirts of Nazi Germany if we do not take our country back.

    Report Post » davecoolworld  
    • troyvar
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:01am

      My pastor came out with a climate-terror message that if implemented would further ruin our economy. I haven’t been back.

      Report Post » troyvar  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:48pm

      Imagine the effcet if hundreds had your courage and conviction to just get up and leave right during the sermon? After all, these Pastors get paid by your donations. No donations, no job.

      Report Post »  
    • Mithra
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 6:03pm

      Perhaps it is a good objective to have everyone in a wealthy country have access to healthcare. We may disagree on who pays for this. And I may be more inclined to attend a church which discusses climate change. We can be most effective by voting with our feet and $.

      Report Post »  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 8:19pm

      Mirtha, that is the beauty. You can choose to go to a Chursh you feel comfortable in. The issue is pretty simple. A true Christian will give to causes he/she feel are worthy. FAILURE TO DO THIS PROVES TO ME THAT THEY ARE NOT REALLY FOLLOWERS OF CHRIST.

      I too think that everyone should have some form of health coverage but NOT as a right What I don’t want is having it being forced on by Govt. I have confidence a TRUE free market system and Christians when challenged arising to meet the needs voluntarily.

      Report Post »  
  • chickenlittle
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:42am

    Are they now going to put spies or electronic “bugs” in churches to hear what is being said? Are they now going to tax only the ones that are against government policies and Democrats (and healthcare for that matter)? Well… I guess it will allow another “job creating” government spy agency. If they really want to hear what’s going on, maybe they should also bug bars and bowling alleys and the internet… oh wait… they‘re already doing that aren’t they?

    Report Post » chickenlittle  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:56am

      This law has been in place for 56 years, ever since LBJ needed to secure his re-election… The actions today are to highlight the loss of freedoms our churches suffer under simply to exist. As noted above:

      “Churches are exempt from taxation under the principle that there is no surer way to destroy religion than to begin taxing it. As the U.S. Supreme Court has noted, the power to tax involves the power to destroy.”

      Report Post » beekeeper  
    • PeachyinGA
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:17pm

      Thank you both for your convictions and bravery. I have vowed I will do the same if I hear these or other liberal principles coming from our pastor because then I would know he has landed on the wrong side of the debate. I don’t anticipate it, but if it happens, I plan to send a letter of my discontent and plan to change churches unless there is an apology from the altar. There is plenty of scripture to back up my views.

      Report Post » PeachyinGA  
  • Country
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:40am

    It’s about time. It has bugged me for years how “Christian” would give up there freedom of speech at the pulpit just so they can have tax exemption. For years “Christians” have been putting the almighty dollar before God. Just remember Christ is only happy with 2 of 7 Churches. Christians Churches that is.

    Report Post »  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:44pm

      Everyone who considers themselves a Christian:

      A poll questions: Would you stop donating to your Church is it lost its tax exemption? Why or why NOT?

      Report Post »  
    • Mithra
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:50pm

      And you know the 2 of 7 how? Are you a prophet that Christ talks to? I think if Christ did come back he would be very saddened by the divisions and arguments of the people who say they are Christians.

      Report Post »  
    • Mithra
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:55pm

      Contrarianthinker makes a good point. How many people do not use the deduction because they don’t believe it is appropriate. I give to my parish, but have never sought a tax deduction

      Report Post »  
    • Country
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 1:52pm

      Mithra, Revelation 2 & 3. Jesus has told us all things.

      Report Post »  
    • Country
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 2:08pm

      Contrarianthinker,
      I would keep giving, blessing comes from giving and faith comes without seeing. If I stopped giving to the church because the church is being taxed, then I would lack faith. God’s word is spread by givers. If the church had faith, why worry about the government? If the church is worried about the government, and not teaching that abortion and homosexuality is bad, then the church fears the government more than God. Our country is becoming less Godly everyday because we are lacking faith and allowing the liberals to have their way. Thx for your response.

      Report Post »  
  • BeHeardAmerica
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:39am

    Be Heard America. Open the doors!

    Report Post » BeHeardAmerica  
  • MikeyG_CT
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:38am

    When Pastors speak they should speak of what is one’s own heart and conscience to find peace and communicate the values of humanity. For pastors to delve into government policies is not the right thing to do. They are the guidance not the pontificates of our elitists. Pastors, once they cross the threshold are no better than the ones who condoned the massacre of countless people who dissent against the government of past regimes that failed

    Report Post » Noonien_Soong  
    • MikeyG_CT
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:56am

      I would urge people of faith to get up from their pews when they hear anything that has to do with Obamacare. Stand up and turn your backs, get your conscience compass pointed toward the truth of the word of god. Collective salvation is tantamount to being forgiven by the state, Personal salvation leaves a person to decide on their own.

      Report Post » Noonien_Soong  
    • Honor2010
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:32am

      Please read the New Testament where Jesus sent a message to Herod Antipas, the ruler of Galilee and Perea, who was trying to kill him. “At that time some Pharisees came to Jesus and said to him, “Leave this place and go somewhere else. Herod wants to kill you.”Jesus replied, “Go tell that fox, ‘I will drive out demons and heal people today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will reach my goal.’ Luke 13:31-32

      Jesus did not hold his tongue when the rulers of the day were coming after him. Jesus denounced the tetrarch as a “fox” and declared that he, Jesus, would not fall victim to such a plot because “it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem” Luke 13:33.

      Accordingly, we should not shy away from Biblical principles or teachings. We should not separate our lives/beliefs into segments by saying, “These are my principles while I’m at home or at work, but these are my principles while I’m at church.” What is taught at church affects every aspect of our lives, even our politics. For too long, people have not voted according to their convictions, and look where our country is now.

      Report Post » Honor2010  
    • Marylou7
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:57pm

      HONOR you are so right. We have been silent too long. If we can’t hear the truth in our churches then where can we hear it?

      Report Post » Marylou7  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:50pm

      How about what the good Congressman from SC did, shout out “YOU LIE” and then leave?

      Report Post »  
    • RevGutz
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 7:39am

      Jesus was very political. Remember, the Jewish leaders were the political leaders. There was no separation of church and state. The church was the state. Whenever Jesus went against them he was going against the political system and leaders of His day.

      Report Post » RevGutz  
  • Marylou7
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:37am

    Obama told pastors this past week to preach his healthcare to their congregations, where’s the separation of church and state there?? I pray that thousands of pastors rise up this Sunday and preach the truth. Amen!!

    Report Post » Marylou7  
  • YesNdeedie
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:33am

    Ah, what exactly does Rev. Wright, Rev Jackson, Rev Sharpton and like others talk about? Are they not “preaching” their political views? I think the IRS is being very racially biased if they inact any penalty on some but not the others. The Johnson Act, LBJ, that man responsible for 58,000 plus American soldiers death, countess thoughts more injured and civilian destruction of immense proportion. Also the man who prevented Eisenhower’s civil rights bill to pass. What a guy, what a president, what a waste.

    Report Post »  
  • MJ1025
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:31am

    Didn’t Obama tell some church leaders to talk about the healthcare bill? That is propaganda.
    Pretty soon, they will want the churches to advocate global climate change and global governemnt or do they do this already?

    Troyvar—I agree. Excellent point.

    Report Post » MJ1025  
  • Clarion Caller
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:31am

    It’s PAST time to stand UP.Silencing free speak in church is a form of tyrany.

    Report Post » Clarion Caller  
  • Philo Beddoe
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:30am

    The people in these church’s cannot think for themselves.

    Just look at the attendee‘s at Jery Wright’s church.

    Report Post » Philo Beddoe  
  • kierstin1989
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:27am

    I do not want to be told in my church how I should vote. I feel like a prisoner in the pew, who is not allowed to get up and disagree (since it is not a debate). Plus it is awkward to get up and leave.

    The thing is, while I agree that the IRS should not be telling our pastors/priests/etc what they can and cannot preach, I do not want my church telling me who I can and cannot vote for. I may use a sermon to guide me in the voting process (a sermon that preaches that social justice is WRONG for example), but I don’t want a voting guide! God gave us free will. I want a pastor to help me with the teachings of Christ – to help me become a stronger Christian – not to tell me who he or she thinks is the right candidate. That is up to ME to decide.

    During the beginning of the war in Iraq, I had to sit through a service where a visiting minister spoke out against the war. I felt trapped and offended. I was younger then. I’ve also had to sit through an academic calling our troops terrorists. If I could relive those moments over, I would stand up and leave.

    Here’s my pledge. If I go to church and the pastor begins preaching against the evils of social justice and collective salvation, I will happily stay. If they start to talk about our Founding Fathers and the principles upon which our country was founded, I will stay! If they discuss the Declaration and the Constitution as divinely inspired, I’ll stay.

    If they begin telling me who to vote for or against, I will leave on principle, whether or not I agree.

    There is a fine line here, and I think each individual needs to decide where that line is for themselves.

    Report Post » kierstin1989  
    • quicker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:34am

      I would also give them a good piese of my mind not that ihave that much anyways but some time you got to stand on princibles

      Report Post » quicker  
    • troyvar
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:52am

      Your pledge is noble. Stand on principle.

      Report Post » troyvar  
    • Dodsfall
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 1:10pm

      You have the right to attend a different church if the one you belong to does not stand for your values. Having the GOVERNMENT make the choice for you by taxing churches they disagree with is just plain unconstitutional.

      Report Post » Dodsfall  
    • FedUpAlready
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:52pm

      **************Kudos*************** My thoughts exactly! I only wih I could’ve articulated them as well! Thank-you!

      Report Post » FedUpAlready  
    • Daniel in Denver
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 12:16am

      This line of thinking needs to be further explored and refined. There’s a solution somewhere here.

      Report Post »  
  • Leslie_Benedict
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:26am

    Will the ADF list the names of “black liberation theology” (ala Pastor Jeremiah Wright)? Or all the “social justice” pastors?

    Report Post » Leslie_Benedict  
    • FedUpAlready
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:22pm

      The list would be to long, with everyone being a Rev. like Al Sharpton and Jessie Jackson, not to mention everyone that went through Drive-Thru U School of Divinity. Believe me there is no shortage of organizations, that have non-profit or tax free status that are run by Reverands ,and, the like, expelling the virtues of their chosen candidates. As has been said before, Churches, Synogues, Mosques etc. should
      be held to the teachings of the Bible, Torah, Quran and not calling for votes for individual candidates.

      Report Post » FedUpAlready  
    • Bot
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:49pm

      Generally the Unitarian/Universalist, and the Church of Christ (Congregational) churches follow Liberation Theology. And more of the mainstream churches (Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Episcopal) churches (as they lose members) are ordaining “progressive” pastors.

      The churches which do not follow Liberation Theology (and are growing in membership) are the Catholic (except Father Pfleger), the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormon), Southern Baptist, and the Evangelical churches. Non-denominational (Christian) churches are also growing and follow traditional Christian theology. Orthodox Jewish synagoges do not follow Liberation Theology.

      If your church or synagoge is ordaining homosexuals and female pastors, it is likely they follow Liberation Theology.

      Report Post » Bot  
  • Philo Beddoe
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:25am

    Hey church’s.

    The more taxes I pay, the less you receive in donations–get it?

    Report Post » Philo Beddoe  
    • MJ1025
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:33am

      That is what this administration is counting on.
      They want to hand out the money to those they see fit. They do not want the churches to have the means to help others out.

      Report Post » MJ1025  
  • Sandy
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:25am

    So our Pastors can’t speak against the Progressive agenda or they will get taxed by the IRS. BUT our President can ask them to speak about a policy of Healthcare to convince people to like it. What Mr. Prez, if they don’t do as you ask are you sending the IRS after them? Did the president ask the churches to do something illegal?

    Report Post » Sandy  
    • MESO71
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:52am

      Amen!

      Report Post »  
    • Chet Hempstead
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 2:24pm

      All churches are allowed to speak about political issues; they just aren’t allowed to say, “vote for John Doe not Joe Dokes.” Maybe we should change that, but if we do we’ll have purely political groups adopting some kind of religious component and calling themselves churches. Instead of the IRS deciding what kind of speech is too openly political, they’ll have to decide what is or isn’t a real religion – obviously just as problematic and potentially dangerous.

      Report Post »  
  • quicker
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:23am

    peachers are suppost to look out for our souls and skeak the word of god not politics .we do not need more rev .Wright or jackson or sharptons

    Report Post » quicker  
    • troyvar
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:39am

      You’re always free to find a chuch that is compatable with your beliefs. When the government tells the churches what to, and not to say, our free speach rights are infringed.

      Report Post » troyvar  
    • baldwin4freedom
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:42am

      There is a relationship between the deterioration of our society and government interference with our individual freedoms. I do not want a pastor telling me how to vote, but a pastor discussing what is relevant to our daily lives is free game.

      This is a battle for our Country’s survival as a free society and we must utilize our freedom of expression to keep it.

      Report Post »  
    • ArmyNavyMom
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 12:39pm

      Just this week Obama told a group of pastors what he wanted them to tell his congregations…what’s good for the goose is good for the gander!

      Report Post »  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 1:10pm

      If a person wants to conduct himself as a true Christian, he will pay attention to scripture found in in James. It is vital that we look to God’s Kingdom for our hope, not a human government, which does not know its right hand from its left. We would keep ourselves neutral to political controversies. A true Christian congregation will do this, a false congregation will ignore these scriptures:
      James 1:27 and James 4:4

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • Kilkman
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 2:19pm

      A few quick points.
      Social engineering had always been domain of the church. The church defined what was acceptable in society.
      Government has taken over that role through the education system.
      Not based on science, but for political agenda. Everything is political.
      Its about time the church took back its roll in shaping society.

      Report Post »  
    • WhiteFang
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 2:31pm

      kilkman, you said “The church defined what was acceptable in society”.

      Just because a church defines what is acceptable does not necessarily agree with with what our Creator deems acceptable.

      Report Post » WhiteFang  
    • Siddhartha Vicious
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 6:46pm

      No, we surely do not. But how about a few dozen who espouse the opposite, actually Christian viewpoints of those hacks?

      I submit that would be a good thing, for balance, if nothing else. Of course, ‘balance’ is far from the intent of the IRS, the left, and some of those who post here as well.

      Report Post »  
  • Les Panek
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:21am

    Draw the lines in the sand. I know where to stand.

    Report Post »  
    • lukesmom
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 6:47pm

      I would pay more tithe, gladly, to make up for any tax losses. Our pastors should be free to speak the truth in all matters

      Jesus answered, “…. In fact, for this reason I was born, and for this reason I came into the world, to testify to the TRUTH. Everyone on the side of TRUTH listens to me.”

      Report Post » lukesmom  
  • Rev. WC
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:19am

    The idea of the IRS telling Ministers what they can preach is exactly what the likes of Soros, Pelosi, Reid, and the Imam Obama want.

    Report Post » Rev. WC  
  • baldwin4freedom
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:19am

    The only time of the week that people in a community come together in numbers is on Sunday. If the government can limit free speech in as many places as possible they will then have more control over the population.

    Look at Obama’s church in chicago. Sounded like a whole bunch of free speech going on there.

    Report Post »  
  • Spooky
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:18am

    Didn’t Pelosi ask churches to spread “the word”?

    The progressive double standard is alive and well.

    Report Post »  
    • DrammyCoke
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:24am

      Only when it’s convenient…. I hate statists and what they have done to our country, imagine the world without them.

      Report Post » DrammyCoke  
    • NoName22
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 12:27pm

      There was an article on here just this week about Obama-Rama asking pastors to spread the gospel of health reform.

      But to speak about a candidate……

      Colossians 2:8
      “See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.”

      Report Post »  
    • JehovahJireh1
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 2:44pm

      The “do as I say standard not as I do.” How about OBama asking the churches to push his Health Care propaganda, isn’t that also political? God help us America! They are attacking us from within without weapons only with their new laws that they think we need rammed down our throats because we are so ignorant we can’t decide what is in our best interest we need to told buy a bunch of incompetent morons. We had our bullys in school now they have taken over the government and infested Washington DC. Time to have the Terminex man come in for all the cockroaches that have come out of the woodwork!!

      Report Post »  
    • CatB
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 3:42pm

      EXACTLY … didn’t Obama just this week ask clergy to go and preach the “VALUE” of Obamacare … how about preaching against it … that MUST be allowed also!

      Report Post »  
    • dominke
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 7:28am

      Remember that hitler used the churches until it was time to destroy germany. Our churches should stand together and voice the opinion of the people. Obama people use the church for their own benefit,rev.wright and big mouth pelosi. Wake up or be ready to bow to obama

      Report Post » dominke  
    • gran76
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 2:54pm

      I agree with all of the above about the unions =also we must back any legislation that slows them down as to “forcing companies to belong and penalyizing union members..They are the pawns. This whole mess is sooo corrupt t makes me sick and angry! And im a christian..

      Report Post »  
  • troyvar
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:14am

    Since they hold tax exempt status over churches, I believe it would also be fair to do the same with unions.

    Report Post » troyvar  
    • Lesterp
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:21am

      Excellent point!

      Report Post » Lesterp  
    • wingedwolf
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:21am

      TROYVAR, you gave me my first big laugh of the day, LOL, I got an immediate visual of the HOWLING that would ensue if they did that!

      wingedwolf  
    • YesNdeedie
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:35am

      I totally agree

      Report Post »  
    • elkaypee
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:57am

      Absolutely!!

      Report Post »  
    • belleharbor
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:02am

      No matter what we do we need to VOTE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the IRS will track down who ever they want if we dont start by the one VOTE and stop this crap FREEDOM is never the easy way out

      Report Post » belleharbor  
    • havanabrownsam
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:21am

      I may not be the sharpest claw on the scratching post, but the IRS seems to have overlooked mosques in their ‘cease & desist’ intimidation campaign…

      Sermons in churches have served to guide congregants’ journeys through life to follow Christian values. It is the purpose of their founding & existence. Christian values steered the vessels of barbarianism to safe harbor throughout history.

      Islam compels the opposite by exhorting Muslims to spread intolerance, hatred, violence, enslavement, ransom, plunder, rape, & destruction toward all life-nurturing, freedom-loving human beings…

      Which side is the IRS on again?

      havanabrownsam  
    • radioguru
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:38am

      great great great point !!!

      Report Post »  
    • mtb
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 11:46am

      I completely agree!

      Report Post » mtb  
    • chattycathy
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 3:34pm

      Agree totally TROYVAR! Unions are tax-exempt organizations and they totally violate the IRS rules but it’s overlooked by the IRS! Al Sharpton’s National Action Network is also a tax-exempt organization. This is a CONSTITUTIONAL issue – 1st Amendment! Our Government passes laws and then decides who does and who does not have obey these laws (hint: Conservatives have to obey!). This has to stop. PLEASE, PLEASE join a Tea Party and become active in ‘righting’ these wrongs. We must take back our Republic now if it is to survive.

      Report Post »  
    • PostProgressiveAmerican
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:20pm

      I content that large unions are a monopoly on labor; anti-trust laws should be applied.

      Report Post » Post-Progressive American  
    • tajenans
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 9:45pm

      Agreed!!

      Report Post »  
    • spikebu
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 12:33am

      Precisely why the ADF is pushing the issue. If the IRS wants to come after these Pastors, they will be forced to examine Unions, Mosques, Rev. Wright, and Jim Wallis.

      Report Post »  
    • Firelight
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 11:32am

      right on ,right on, again just one more problem the FAIR TAX could avoid.

      Report Post »  
    • GnomeChomsky
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 3:49pm

      You guys should really research things before making these idiotic comments. Unions are classified under a different tax exempt code, 501(c)(5), from religious institutions which are 501(c)(3). They do not have a prohibition from conducting politcal activities or making political statements/endorsements.

      Report Post »  
    • Taktanhe
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 5:04pm

      @Gnomechomsky – Great you know the tax code subparagraph differences! Now for 100 carbon credits, please explain to us why there is a distinction?

      (Hint: Any answer that includes the word “religion” would be wrong since not all 501(c)(3) groups are religious in nature).

      I look forward to your attempt at an answer.

      Report Post »  
    • Taktanhe
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 6:28pm

      As no one has stepped up to answer, I’ll go ahead and give it to you simply: the people who write the tax code chose to make the distinction. The reason, they know on which side their bread is buttered.

      They prohibit “poor” 501’s (religious, educational, charitable, etc., organizations) from directly endorsing a candidate or lobbying for legislation. Yet they allow the “rich” 501’s (labor/trade unions, agricultural and business associations) to do these activities.

      So, you can see my point better I will leave the issue of churches out of this (since you lefty types seem to get your fair trade organic undies in a bunch whenever religion enters the conversation) and put it in terms that will hopefully illustrate the disparity at a level that may appeal to that sense of fairness and social justice those on your side always hearken to. Who knows, maybe, you’ll see the point and join us to have this abomination corrected!

      Point One: Your teacher’s union can use the dues they collect to endorse a candidate and lobby for legislation to suit their vision of education for your child (i.e. more federal dollars for higher salaries, fully paid medical, tenure over merit), the PTO/PTA at the school they work at that represents the parents and students does not have that right (i.e. merit over tenure, better/safer facilities, books printed after the Reagan administration).

      Point Two: The agricultural group that represents salmonella producing egg farmers can endorse candidates and lobby for legislation to protect their right to factory farms for chickens, the ASPCA cannot use its money to directly fight them.

      Point Three: The American Medical Association and Trial Lawyers can endorse candidates and lobby to subvert real health care reform, yet patient advocacy, charitable hospitals and community health cooperatives cannot.

      These extra little numbers after the 501(c) represent one thing, protecting the deep pockets who make huge campaign contributions from the “riff-raff” who, for right or wrong, whether you agree or not, would work against their interests. They bought a seat at the table and used that power to lock out the opposition. That was just three example off the top of my head, and that was just nonprofit vs. nonprofit. The 501(c)(3)s can’t stand up to the “IRS” sanctioned nonprofits they deem are worthy to speak for the masses, forget about what they can do against a for profit group.

      Forget the churches and just look at the three example I gave, now look into your heart and tell me you could seriously use this (c)(3) –vs- (c)(5) as a valid argument to support the current tax codes. Just because they wrote it that way doesn’t make it right, it just makes it the current law.

      Report Post »  
  • Lesterp
    Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:14am

    The left will take any avenue to silence us! Do not be silent!

    Report Post » Lesterp  
    • beekeeper
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:26am

      This silences the left AND the right.

      If a Father O‘Malley can’t extol the virtues of certain candidate, than neither can a Rev. Wright.

      beekeeper  
    • JJ Coolay
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 10:54am

      Freedom of Speech should not be dictated by taxation.
      There’s no reason, other than to keep the long arm of the law in an oppressively fixed position over religion, that churches should not be able to speak about politics. If the parishioners don‘t like it they don’t have to attend. But hello—free speech.

      Report Post » JJ Coolay  
    • Loboloco
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 12:02pm

      I thought “separation of Church and State” means……….. the State stays out of the Church not the Church stays out of the State. After all, doesn‘t the State have it’s own propaganda machine with the “Lame” stream media.

      Report Post »  
    • ProgressivesLoveAmerica
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 12:35pm

      I never would have thought it was illegal to talk about politics in a religious setting in this country. Just looking at what normally passes a acceptable in this country, you’d think that somehow religion and politics were obligated to be connected to one another.

      The Republican party is well-known to have a very cozy relationship with the Southern Baptist convention.

      It’s illegal to discuss politics in a place of worship for very good reason. There’s a very fine line between discussing an issue on terms of moral & ethical relevance and outright endorsing a political candidate: basically, given how political organizations are supposed to be regulated, it would be bureaucratic nightmare trying to regulate an entity calling itself a church that also acts as a political institution.

      Besides, isn’t it just a sick perversion of faith that somebody brings politics into a house of worship? Is NOTHING sacred?

      ProgressivesLoveAmerica  
    • w4jle
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 12:58pm

      Churches that support the left have always spoken out with full immunity. How many politicians have you seen on the news attending and speaking at Black churches? It is only the right that is threatened with their tax exempt status.
      No more! IRS, do your darndest, you know if it goes to court and you lose the threat is gone. Scary out there for you government petty dictators? Thank you Obama for finally awaking the American public to government tyranny. We couldn’t have done it without you!

      Report Post » w4jle  
    • ProgressivesLoveAmerica
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 1:09pm

      JAMESTOWN, that was horrible comment!

      You’re making people of faith look bad. If you’re a conservative, you’re making your fellow conservatives look bad. Your belligerent and hateful comments do not make any credible point. You ought to have more compassion for homosexuals & you ought educate yourself on the Catholic faith. It was the Catholic Church that was the very first Christian denomination in the world. The Roman Catholic Church compiled the Bible all Christians use today.

      I’ve known for a very long time now that fundamentalist Biblical literalist varieties of Evangelical Christianity have a hatred for Catholics, but you really take cake on this one my friend.

      When it comes to abortion, you ought to hae compassion for the women who face that decision. There are two really good ways to prevent abortions from happening:
      1) Education – well educated and well informed individuals are far less likely to have unwanted pregnancies.
      2) Investment in social services that serve families – the country France is very well known for its pro-family economic policies. Think of child care for working families.

      Report Post » ProgressivesLoveAmerica  
    • johndylan1
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 3:12pm

      Please take a minute to think this through. Where religious principals intersect with governence, those principals should be preached with practical application included. For example if your churches position on abortion is pro life, I would expect your preacher to support a pro life candidate as a matter of religious application but not as a political statement for a political party. On the other hand, Do we really want to turn our churches into political action commities? How many unscrupulous men will obtain a ministry for the sole purpose of political power?

      Report Post »  
    • PostProgressiveAmerican
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:17pm

      WAKE UP AMERICA! Your freedoms are being taken away, one by one.

      What about “or the free exercise thereof?” Freedom of Speech? Freedom of Assembly.

      It is interesting that even they President can attend churches that ooze politics (liberation theology, Social Justice, and ‘preaching the gospel of Healthcare,’ just to name a few), but is the churches that convey conservative views that are being attacked. And what about non-profit groups and others that get Federal dollars that get petitions signed, register dead people to vote and promote socialism? Aren’t these just the new secular churches and clergy of the godless?

      I fear we are further down the dark road than I realized; the churches are under attack and will either be closed or forced to come to heel under Government control…and we know where that leads.

      Forget gold! Invest in silver and leather…I see a big demand in the near future for knee-high boots, trench coats and silver skull-n-crossbones insignia.

      Goosestep anyone?.

      Report Post » Post-Progressive American  
    • jv
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:25pm

      in response to JAMESTOWN the Commandment “thou shalt not kill” is translated from the Hebrew “rasah” which until late in the 20th century was understood by most Bible translators as stemming from the verb “to kill”. Only recently have some Bibles have ammended their translations to “thou shalt not murder” and they’ve done so to make it clear that there are certain types of killing that are not considered murder and as such are not sinful. And no one (Catholic or Protestant) disputes this. However, murder is not really a good translation eiother since rasah is used in other places in the Hebrew Bible to signify accidental killing and capital punishment which are clearly not acts of murder to our modern sensibilities. The bottom line is that there is no modern English word that perfectly represents the Hebrew word “rasah” and as such it should not be that much of a difficulty of whether a particular Bible says “Thou shalt not kill” or “thou shalt not murder”. the only thing that is important is that the reader understand that the intentional taking of an innocent human life accept for extenuating circumstances (like war or self-defense or capital punishment, etc.) is a grave sin. And that is exactly what is taught by the Catholic Church and most of the Protestant denominations. Got that dipstick!!

      As for the IRS getting involved with Church preaching, we need a law I think to get their noses permanently out of the first ammendment. All churches should have the right to say what they wish from the pulpit without penalty from the IRS. Next thing you know they’ll be putting preachers in prison for hate speech – like they already do in Europe and Canada.

      Report Post »  
    • PostProgressiveAmerican
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 4:43pm

      Let me think…

      IRS, ATF, FBI, CIA, NSA, TSA, ICE, DHS (I know there are more, but it is so hard to keep track). How many agencies do we need with the own ‘enforcement’ arms? Let us not forget the 16,000 new ‘troops’ for Healthcare enforcement.

      I think I see a trend.

      Report Post » Post-Progressive American  
    • Contrarianthinker
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 5:33pm

      Progressive: because you post ina respectful way and clearly lay out your position, let me do the same.

      1. If I felt that it is inapproapriate for a Pastor to talk in any way in a political way from the pulpit, I will leave that Church. I would suggest you do the same.

      2. Why did the courts suddenly change in 1954 after almost 200 years of freedom of speach from the pulpit? Is it because all the thousands of judges before them didn’t understand the Constitution?

      3. I’m a Mormon like Glenn Beck. he Mormon Church will NOT endorse any candidate BUT it sounds a sure trumpet when it comes to voting for people whose principals can be supported by the word of God and The Constitution. The Mormon are well known to ctaully give big bucks to fight the spread of homosexual “mrriage” becing recognized as legal.

      4. Lastly if the Mormon Church decided to join in on the protest, I would stand up and cheer!!!! If they eliminated my church donations, I would still continue giving to build the Lord/s Kingdom. IF my motivation was to get a tax deduction am I truly a compassionate follower of Christ?

      Report Post »  
    • M.Witherington
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 6:47pm

      If the church isn‘t allowed in government then the government shouldn’t be allowed in churches. Do they check for political talk in mosques too? The ACLU would have a field day.

      Report Post »  
    • EAGLEMOM
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 6:50pm

      to “progressivesloveamerica”….education is not going to prevent abortions…fathers will. Young ladies who have a strong and healthy relationship with their father are significantly less likely to have abortions.

      Report Post »  
    • tajenans
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 9:44pm

      To “ProgressivesLoveAmerica”

      Churches are preaching politics all the time, but as long as it is the politics of the left Washington is fine with it. Don’t believe me? Google ‘church’ and ‘social justice’. There are even Facebook pages dedicated to it. Our family recenly left our church because of the references to ‘evil American industrialist’ and statements like ‘Jesus is in the health care bill’.

      But, of course, you don’t have a problem with THIS politics in church…as long as it is the politics of the left.

      Report Post »  
    • S G Applebee
      Posted on September 26, 2010 at 9:58pm

      If anyone is REALLY interested in what’s wrong with America, and how to fix it, watch these short (7 min) videos. And please comment on them if you wish to : )
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSmZDCeqUyE
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wd9ufxnOHA

      Report Post »  
    • independentvoteril
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 12:32am

      Exactly right..and IF people would look up the FEDERAL RESERVE and the IRS they would know those two entity’s are NOT part of our GOVERNMENT..the IRS just COLLECTS the interest we owe the FEDERAL RESERVE from those loans our Politicians keep taking for all the social services..If people would explore both of those they would have a REAL problem with all this spending..

      Report Post » independentvoteril  
    • independentvoteril
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 1:25am

      As some who was raised Catholic..did the Baptized thing, communion, confirmation, and even got married in a Catholic Church (although the preacher was Baptist).. and my kids were raised the same.. have you NOTICED how many LESS Catholic’s are attending MASS.. it is BECAUSE the priests without calling it such are preaching SOCIAL JUSTICE.. and that is for a starter.. they also d have become political advocates for ILLEGAL ALIENS.from the pulpit… I do know this that the Catholic religion discourages the reading of the Bible and preaches HATEFULNESS towards other religions.much the same as other Christian religions does that is a power play for their churches.. to them.. The Catholic religion as with other Christian religions forbids abortions.. it’s NOT a debatable subject.. it ALSO discourages HOMOSEXUALITY.. even though they don’t encourage the reading of ANY Bible there is something in it about laying down with another man.. the term laying down means having sex back in the day.. What BOTH teach are CHRISTIAN values although some miss them and the 10 COMMANDMENTS.. which if we all followed we would be much better for.. One difference between the religions is some teach a LOVING GOD and some makes it sound like he’s not.. (which is incorrect)..one says if you haven‘t been saved you will go to h3ll and the Catholics don’t know it but they already have been saved which takes believing that Jesus was the son of God sent down to save us by dieing for our sins.. Therefore the RULES are the same in both religions however Christians seem to forget the rules are there for them to FOLLOW not pick and choose which one fits their needs..Kinda like the Politicians who pick and choose when they want to follow the CONSTITUTION or the LAWS OF THE LAND…So any religion that encourages discord is NOT following what they have been taught..

      Report Post » independentvoteril  
    • thecommish58
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 9:21am

      99% of the church leaders in Detroit supported the thug/felon Mayor Kilpatrick right up until the day he went to prison – and would probably support him if he escaped and ran for office today. My advice to church leaders (regarding politics) “Don’t wrestle with pigs – you’ll both get dirty – but they like it.”

      Report Post »  
    • SaveOurRepublic
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 12:42pm

      I believe that ALL churches should pay taxes. This does a couple of things. One it allows them to enjoy the free speech they should have and no longer have to worry about any political party that happens to be in power to threaten them. Two it will prevent “churches” from being businesses and make them be what they should be gatherings of people celebrating their faith and not about mega mansions and pastors getting rich.

      Report Post »  
    • singledad2
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 3:34pm

      ProgressivesLoveAmerica you need to be corrected about the Roman Catholic Church. When the English monk Bebe translated the bible from Latin to English he we killed by the Roman Catholic Church and then dug up a few hundred years latter and they burn his remains. Then in the 1500’s Martin Luther saw the corruption in the Roman Catholic Church because they didn’t want the common folk to read the Word because they were selling salvation for money and power. So he translated it to germen so they could read and understand the Word of God. The reason I bring this up is because the progressive of today are doing the same thing. Writing 1000 page plus bills making them hard to understand and they are selling their souls for power. And now they are using collective salvation to pervert the Word of God Just like the Roman Catholic Church of old.

      Report Post »  
    • snowleopard3200
      Posted on September 27, 2010 at 3:41pm

      I understand about the IRS for one time when I ran a small country church as a chaplain, I simply encouraged people to go out and vote – not for any one candidate or another, just not to waste the right of voting they enjoy in our country. It soon resulted in a visitor making not so subtle threats to me about what will happen if I continued.

      I no longer head a church, but I will keep encouraging people to vote until the last breath leaves my body – God Willing

      Report Post » Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}  
    • uhadenoughyet.com
      Posted on September 28, 2010 at 1:30am

      Add your comments

      Report Post » uhadenoughyet.com  
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