Racism In the Church? Famed Pastors John Piper & Tim Keller Tackle the Issue
- Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:20pm by
Billy Hallowell
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Pastors John Piper and Tim Keller have made names for themselves on the national stage, as both faith leaders are known for unique stances on many of the issues that plague both Christian churches and society, alike. This week, the evangelical faith leaders came together in New York City to discuss “grace and race” in the church.
The discussion, entitled “Race and the Christian,” delved into ethnic relations within Christian churches, as the pastors indicated that they see racism as an ongoing struggle within American houses of worship. The two-hour discussion was held at New York Society for Ethical Culture on Wednesday evening.
Pastor John Piper (center) and Pastor Tim Keller (right) (Image Credit: Crossway)
During the event, The Christian Post reports that Piper characterized racism as a historical problem that exists across the world — one that is best described by the Bible’s story of sin and the fall of man. Racism, he explained, is rooted in pride and the human characteristic of finding satisfaction in oneself rather than in God.
“That is because humans are in rebellion against God. That’s where that comes from,” Piper proclaimed. “Exalting ourselves over our maker and of course, if over our maker, over each other. That’s a given.”
Pastor Tim Keller (right) and Pastor John Piper (left) with Anthony Bradley (center) (Image Credit: Crossway)
In addressing why he believes racism still exists in churches today, Piper said Christians must embrace grace in order to recognize it and move forward.
“Redemption is not perfection,” Piper said. “The redeemed must realize their imperfections.”
Keller added that he believes racism is created by a lack of “corporate responsibility” and the presence of “systematic evil.” Since converting people to Christianity isn’t enough to strip racism out of society entirely, he claimed that the system must change before people will. The Christian Post adds:
…one of the challenges, he presented, is that “white people” don’t have a concept of “corporate responsibility” which prevents them from dealing with “corporate evil” or “systemic racism.”
The Bible supports the practice of corporate responsibility, Keller further explained. In Joshua 7, corporate responsibility in family is illustrated when Akin and his family are punished for Akin’s sin of taking the wealth for himself. Daniel 9 demonstrates corporate responsibility for an entire culture because it shows how the prophet Daniel repents for the sins of his ancestors and sins that he individually didn’t commit.
Piper is the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minneapolis, Minn., and Keller is the faith leader of Redeemer Church in New York City. Theology professor Anthony Bradley of The King’s College moderated the discussion. Read more about what the faith leaders had to say about building and sustaining diverse congregations.
(H/T: The Christian Post)
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Comments (102)
Jenny Lind
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:13amI have been on the Blaze since almost the beginning, and I have noted that most racial slurs are from “new” names or the very same people who spout nastiness about the right on a regular basis. I realize some come here to make this blog look racist and evil. There are also very few who don’t think befor they call names or belittle-especially our president. That we are all angry that this man hoodwinked so many to get elected is not in doubt. How we handel it varies. Then along come the “men of God” who want to tell us we are racist, corporations are racists, business is racist, etc. I do not believe that. I think that mentality only makes things far worse and creates division. I do not believe God approves of that either. Love and judging the character of a person is the answer, not preachers “telling” us we are racist.
Report Post »VanceUppercut
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:49amYes, you’re right, whenever your side shows itself to be racist, stupid, insane, or all of the above, it’s just a liberal plant pretending to be one of you. Can’t get nothing past you.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 1:49pmJenny Lind,
Report Post »You are very right. I really don’t know a racist Christian personally. Some of these posters are expressing ideas that strike me as so incongruent with with the faith, and who we are as a body of believers, that some must surely be plants. Thank you for shining a light on that. They will stoop to any level to try to further divide us or paint us in a bad light. Dividing the races right now seems to be the mode of action that Satan is using to cause chaos.
13axes
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 4:24pm@VanceUppercut your name is misleading,you have yet to land one blow on anyone here since you parachuted into the blaze,a more appropriate name would be vancegotuppercutted.Q.Why are you such an angry,bitter,pathetic little liberal?Is it because you know way deep down inside you are seething with rage cause your little fairy tale president turns out to suck at his job,and the lies being spewed by the rats are just that,lies and everyone knows it,and it’s just driving you and your ilk nuts.so why do you waste time here on the blaze,shouldn’t you be out volunteering for an abortion clinic,maybe you could help print up some flyers,or I’m sure there is a murderer on death row somewhere near you “free *****“ ”he got set up”.i heard SEIU was paying $20 a head to protest,there you go.why not be out there representing your beliefs and causes instead of wasting all that valuable liberal time here on the blaze.you should go back and re-read rules for radicals again and then come back to the blaze when you get some cred,you are a poor excuse for a commie
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:41pm@JENNY – Who said corporations are racist? Keller? You mean you don’t understand the difference between “corporate” as in a corporation versus “corporate” as in a group of people, like a family or a society? Do you not understand that when Keller talks about “corporate responsibility” he means taking responsibility of something as a people group, not corporations? Or do you also think that by “corporate salvation” Jim Wallis and others mean salvation through corporations?
Report Post »VicksVaporub
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:56pmSlaveowners were very religious Christians.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:12pm@VICKS – And so were abolitionists!
Report Post »Todd Mahaffey
Posted on May 5, 2012 at 8:13pmLind is tracking correctly. Conspicuous in these (self) deliveries from ministers is the textual backing from THE BOOK. There can be many appeals to behavior and social action in THE BOOK which these men presumably wish to represent but “racism” is NOT found. Don’t make slaves of yourself: in there. Adopt babies from cultures foreign: not in there. Be generous to everyone as you can: in there. Especially Christians and your own: also in there. These preachy social forums sans Biblical textual backing are au currant and wearisome. Tell me, preachers, (as you are supposed to) what sin is and on Whom do I dispose of it. So I recognized another race and some of it’s ways. If that’s a sin then lets have the message straight up. If not – I’m going home. Who comes out for this? Probably well-intentioned Liberal-tinged Christians who like to hear about something they can attone for, while real sins take a God to attone for. This is not a Christian message but a marxist-influenced message about caring for others outside your nativity (or you could say the neighborhood children) just as much as your own. This is not a spiritual requirement the breach of which gets you the death penalty or even (the more insipid) loss of God’s total blessing. Keller is a PCA kingpin, a denomination that began life as a sane, rational Calvinist church. This soundness has been constantly ravaged and savaged till little recognizable remains. Some of us still read the Bible and understand parts.
Report Post »lala76
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:21amAnd did they also talk about the racism against whites? Nobody likes to talk about it but it is certainly alive and well in the churches of this country.
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:49pmLala76: Oh, no. They would never, never, never speak out against the much more pervasive racism against White people. You see, the Lunatic Left really isn’t against “racism” per se at all; they’re only against pro-White ‘racism’. Anti-White racism they find peachy-keen.
Report Post »Good point you made there.
bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:34pm@LALA76 – As the article says: “’That is because humans are in rebellion against God. That’s where that comes from,’ Piper proclaimed.” Sounds to me like the man is covering ALL racism, unless you‘re trying to say a particular group of people aren’t human.
Report Post »dixiedown
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:09amTwo races. The decent and the indecent. They both come in all “colors”.
Report Post »gsplgtr
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:35amKeller eroniously points to “corporate” responsiblility when it was the judgemnt of God because of SIN, which was Piper’s point entirely. Racism is dealt with in the Church thusly, “He who clains to love God yet hates his own brother(in Christ) is a liar and the Truth(Jesus) is not in him”. ” there is neither Jew nor greek, slave nor free male nor female. All are one in Christ Jesus..” Show me where in the New Testament where color is used to divide people within the church.
Report Post »In.Spite.of.Myself
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:37amWell said.
Report Post »Todd Mahaffey
Posted on May 5, 2012 at 8:35pmSo right. I caught that way too broad brush stroke, too. I understand Federalism and that I went to these useless wars with my representatives (I really don’t think we have a representational Republic anymore what with the Ammendments and all but another day another topic) but to pick a tough subject slaveholding was both Constitutional and Biblical so did the slaveholders or the Jim Crowers represent me because we both European and it’s now judged a sin per se (not speaking of general ugly behavior or abuses which were NOT universal…Robert E Lee in fact freed his household slaves before the war and Yankee officers did not). The next time I get a speeding ticket I‘m going to send it to Mr Piper of Minneapolis and to Keller of Manhatten in the name of corporate responsibility if it’s that willy nilly in God’s eyes. I guess he doesn’t know who really sins…he just bundles them. That part in John’s Revelation about individuals before the judgement throne is just silly dogma….LOL
Report Post »charlieb58
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:29amThere are two parties in this, the hand of reconciliation that is offered must be accepted for things to change. There are other Biblical principles that could be applied in this situation.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:36amI don’t think Jesus talked about “2 parties” in the Church. I don’t think He cared about colour at all. He, who gave His life willingly for us, considering a unified Body worthy of His offering, asked us to become One. We should not prop up any walls which keep us from this basic command. Love is all that matters, and that, in Truth.
Report Post »yeshua4me2
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 8:15amThe bible has an answer:
Act 17:26 And [God] hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation,
there is only one race.
Report Post »SonOfThunder
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 7:40amTwo more pastors once sound biblically now going the way of the emergent church. Both are supporters of Rick Warren and Beth Moore. Piper encouraging dabbling in mysticism with lectio divina practice by Roman catholic monks. both trying to bring all religions together theologically. This is what Revelation talks about . A one world religion. It is a real shame. I have read John piper books and they are very good. Now he has gone the way of the emergents.
Report Post »MTSchmidt
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:01amUh no he hasn’t. I attend and work at Bethlehem Baptist Church and I can assure you that he is not going the way of the emergent church. When he invited “questionable” people to speak at the Desiring God Conferences like Rick Warren, many of our members were concerned and he addressed the issue at the church. Please do not speak on issues or subjuects that you do not know because you have just soiled a mans’s reputation without knowing him or any facts that surround him – he is a heavily reformed (calvinistic) preacher.
Report Post »MTSchmidt
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:08amPS: as mentioned in the first post, I have been attending Bethlehem Baptist Church for almost four year; which is the church Dr. Piper preaches at and I run stage setup/tear down and sound at the South Site. Because of the fact that I run the sound during service, I have the privilege of often speaking with every pastor that speaks at our site -namely Dr. Piper.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:16amThe End Times aren’t just about the awful things that will happen. God has told us that Jesus will return once all that is His is gathered into One. We are participating in the gathering together (so that we can be One Church, according to His Command). And then, the fullness of time will have arrived.
Denominational differences which keep us separated and in conflict are not of Christ. Certainly, He wants each of us to be true to our faith, not to bind ourselves to falsehoods, with which we have no fellowship in Christ, but in Truth, towards unity.
None should water down Christ in order to seek unity with non-Christians. That is wrong, as well as dangerous. But strengthened by unity, we should stand more boldly in truth, without divisions. Satan wishes to divide and conquer. Jesus ask us to stand as One.
1 Cor. 12:24b God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
Eph 1:9 having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, 10 that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both* which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him
22,23 He is the Head and fullness of one
Report Post »SonOfThunder
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 7:21pmMt,
Report Post »That is fine you know him but it does not explain his encouragement of lectio divina which is pagan mysticism. He was speaking at Passion 2012 with Beth Moore which was “ Lectio Divina” lite conference. On his own website Desiring God he is promoting the pagan practice. Here is the link. http://www.desiringgod.org/blog/posts/a-system-for-praying-in-2012. So by promoting it throws into question his moving into the emerging movement. The Desiring God article in question points us to author Kenneth Boa, a Thomas Merton quoting mystic. That’s right, the very same Thomas Merton who said he wanted “to become as good a Buddhist as I can.” so your problem is with your pastor promoting pagan mysticism.
SonOfThunder
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 7:23pmMy Christian friend, this practice of emptying the mind is dangerous, dangerous teaching. I can attest to the fact that, rather than leading one to God, it leads practitioners instead into the demonic realm. I pray that God would open Dr. Piper’s eyes to the dangers of this practice his website is now encouraging.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:04pm@SONOFTHUNDER – Maybe you should have checked the article you referenced from the Desiring God web site about Lectio Divina before you posted it. The section you are talking about has been updated with a comment saying it should not have even been in the article. I guess those guys aren’t so bad after all, huh?
Report Post »Soli.Deo.Gloria
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 7:29amDr. Piper is 100% correct.
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 4:28amIn the first place, these two ‘clergymen’ are agents of the Lunatic Left and not of Christianity. God Himself wrote the law of racial segregation. Racial integration and misgecenation are morally wrong – period. Anyone who disagrees should simply read the Book of Ezra.
Report Post »Like many people who rant and rave about what is ‘constitutional’ or not and yet have never even read the Constitution, most people who speak about the Bible haven’t read it either.
Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:23amYou are deceived. Read the New Testament. Or, if you prefer, try the Book of Ruth. Or:
Num 121 Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married; for he had married an Ethiopian (Cush/Black) woman. 2 So they said, “Has the LORD indeed spoken only through Moses? Has He not spoken through us also?” And the LORD heard it. 3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more than all men who were on the face of the earth.) 4 4 Suddenly the LORD said to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam, “Come out, you three, to the tabernacle of meeting!” So the three came out. 5 Then the LORD came down in the pillar of cloud and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam. And they both went forward. 6 Then He said,
“Hear now My words:
If there is a prophet among you,
I, the LORD, make Myself known to him in a vision;
I speak to him in a dream.
7 Not so with My servant Moses;
He is faithful in all My house.
8 I speak with him face to face,
Even plainly, and not in dark sayings;
And he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
To speak against My servant Moses?”
9 So the anger of the LORD was aroused against them, and He departed. 10 And when the cloud departed from above the tabernacle, suddenly Miriam became leprous, as WHITE AS SNOW.
Miriam, preferring “whiter”, was given her desire-
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:11pm@Wasp – How about reading the book of Genesis? One race, my friend. Many ethnicities, but one race.
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:47pmTo Texas.7: The verses you quoted do not deal directly with race, only with Moses. Again, read the Book of Ezra, which deals almost entirely with the subject of race and tells how the miscegenationists were cast out, along with their racially-mixed children. (A lot of confused born-agains and the like try to say that these ‘mixed marriages’ were referring to mixtures of people of different religions, but if so, why would the offspring have been cast out as well?)
Report Post »To Bmarchand: Perhaps you should try reading the Book of Genesis. It clearly talks about the “mark of Cain” (which people for centuries have believed means that which denotes the Black race). It further goes on to tell how Cain “went to the land of Nod and took his wife (there)”. She was, according to various Biblical scholars throughout the ages, Black. This was the beginning of the ***** race.
Obviously, if there were other types (races) of people in Nod and elsewhere, these people were of non-Adamic stock.
bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:18pm@Wasp – Wow, really? The mark of Cain denotes the black race? Are you serious. People thought the earth was flat and the earth was the center of the universe for a long time too. “Cain said to the LORD, “My punishment is greater than I can bear. Behold, you have driven me today away from the ground, and from your face I shall be hidden. I shall be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me. Then the LORD said to him, “Not so! If anyone kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” And the LORD put a mark on Cain, lest any who found him should attack him.”- Genesis 4:13-15, ESV. So let’s see, God puts a mark on Cain to prevent anyone from attacking him. So, if you’re right, then God must be protecting the black race. What do you make of that?
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:30pm@Wasp – Also, you said “Obviously, if there were other types (races) of people in Nod and elsewhere, these people were of non-Adamic stock.” Hold on a sec… First there was Adam, then there was Eve. They had Cain, Abel, Seth, and a whole bunch of other children (Gen 5:4). So… if Adam and Eve were the first man and woman, then where do you think the people of Nod came from? Space? A cabbage patch in the garden? Simply put, if you go by the Bible, then there is no non-Adamic stock!
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:11pm@WASP – Let’s try this one: You said the book of Ezra “deals almost entirely with the subject of race and tells how the miscegenationists were cast out, along with their racially-mixed children.” Well, if you think two out of ten chapters is “almost entirely” I’ll give you that one (no I won’t. Two out of ten chapters isn’t even half). So I am assuming you believe that the “impurity” and the “abominations” and the “uncleanness” of the other people the Israelites inter-married with (Ezra 9:10-12) is their race, or the color of their skin, but certainly not their religious practices and pagan worship (you know, the pagan worship that kept creeping into Israel over and over again because they didn‘t heed God’s command to separate themselves from the other people for that reason).
You are proof that, somewhere out there, there is a mirror-image preacher of Jeremiah Wright and I have a feeling you’ll be in his church tomorrow. God help you.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 1, 2012 at 2:02amwaspanglosaxon,
When God gave the Israelites the land, he had waited till the sins of the Amorites had been fulfilled. (Gen 15:16) He wouldn’t take their land until they developed deviant belief systems which required the sacrifice of their own children to Moloch/Baal, and offering their daughters up as temple prostitutes to the goddess. Mothers teach their children these beliefs, so in order to eradicate this evil, none were to be spared. (Thank God for Jesus, who eradicates evil for us, and has already won the battle!)
Other nations were spared during the conquest, because God said that He had given them their land and they should let them live in peace. (Deut 2). Later, these too fell into sin and warred against the Israelites and were not to be spared.
The Israelites, did not do as God commanded, and let these people (and their abominable beliefs with them) survive. Eventually, Israel embraced the sins of their predecessors with idolatry and great evils. The Babylonian captivity was the direct result of the final straw for Israel, due to the sins of Manasseh. These returning Jews knew why they were told to stay separate from them Ezra 9:11.
2 Kings 21:6 He (Manasseh) made his son pass through the fire, witchcraft, used divination, and dealt with mediums and spiritists…11Manasseh king of Judah did these abominations, [and] did wickedly above all that the Amorites did, which [were] before him, and hath made Judah also to sin with his idols.
Report Post »Simonne
Posted on April 1, 2012 at 4:32amYou are really scary in your thinking. Thankfully, in my own life I find most people are not racist or bigots but from exit polls, articles, & reading posts online, I have been shocked that there is so much bigotry coming from certain churches. A true Christian is not a bigot or racist.
Report Post »Buster Hyman
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 2:24amDo these gentleman have a clue as to where the concept of “racism” originated? How about leon trotsky the jewish communist. Communism denies the exisitence of God and seeks to usurp His authority and will on this earth. Come folks how can we allow such doctrine to infiltrate our Chrisitan churches? Was it not God who created the nations i.e. races? Was it not God who seperated them?
Natural affection among humans was instilled by God. Are these two going to tell the jews they must allow non-jews to become citizens of Israel? There is a reason when races i.e. peoples are forced togeither friction occurs. We were sepearted for a reason yet some think they know better than God and try to force us together either by judicail mandate or guilt then wonder why things go wrong.
Seeking to be among ones own kind is not a sin. Having and following that natural affection does not mean you “hate” all others. In fact we are killing ourselves attempting to ignore God’s plan, is it any wonder?
Y’all have a nice day.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:36pm@BUSTER – With a name like that, do you really expect anyone here to take you seriously?
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on April 2, 2012 at 12:53amYep, Bmarchand, when you can‘t say anything intelligent to refute Busterhyman’s statement, just go ahead and attack his screen name. Makes as much sense as anything else you’ve posted on here.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on April 2, 2012 at 10:38amHey WASP, as you told me before, is that the best you can do? Why didn’t you respond to anything else I offered you? I guess you can’t. So the only thing you can go after me on is this? Okay, whatever. As I said before, God help you.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 11:35pmAs the life-source of the flesh is blood, the life-source of the soul is Spirit. And we, once born of the blood of Adam, which was separated into divisions due to the curse of confused tongues at Babel, have been gathered together unto Christ. Having died to our flesh, now re-born into the Kingdom- those former divisions have been washed away. In fact, we, who’s life is no longer bound or restricted to our own blood, have exchanged our human bloodlines for His.
Jesus, fully man and fully God created a new relationship between Creator and Creature. His Spirit, dwelling in flesh, transforms us into His likeness, transforming us (together) into a suitable Bride (of His own kind!). As children of God through re-birth, we are members of a royal nation of priests, (and happily), a peculiar people! Washed away are the old differences and divisions between us, as we are being built together as One Body, in Christ. Because as we have been reconciled to God, we have also been reconciled to one another in Christ, reversing the curse that pulled us apart.
God Himself has made us descendants of Abraham through re-birth, so that we rightfully call one another brothers and sisters. And if we, who were mortal, but have been made new by the same blood of Christ, claim His kinship, then certainly we deny our own joining with Christ if we again seek to divide according to the curse from which we were healed with the re-joining of tongues and races at Pentecost.
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 11:55pmWe, as members of His Body, can’t consider one part better than another. We hate Christ Himself if we wish to severe parts of His Body from His love. All races and languages of believers belong. All are welcome. It doesn’t matter what caste, color, nationality or former belief, former behaviour or whatever. All are welcome into the Body of Christ.
Pentecost, when the Sprite was given to mankind originally, reversed the separations placed upon mankind at Babel. Attempts to pull apart the races again are anit-Christ, because His command is that we be ONE. Not separate, but one. One Spirit, one Baptism, one Body serving the same Christ. To claim division based on genealogy is to claim flesh over Spirit.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:28pm@TEXAS – Well put!
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on April 1, 2012 at 2:16ambmarchand,
Report Post »Thanks, I was cruising through the posts again looking at the conversation and you made a lot of sense to people. Hopefully, some will listen. I think racism, which I fully believe to be an anti-Christ teaching, will be how this nation is pushed to the edge. Evil approaches, and as most on this site believe (except for the plants), the enemy wants to divide and conquer. Though it looks pretty bleak in the world, we are trusting a mighty powerful God. Confidence in Him will see us through, while we continue to stand on the increasingly unpopular truth. And if love covers a multitude of sins, and His love reconciled us to God, then surely, love will win in the end. God bless you.
bmarchand
Posted on April 1, 2012 at 2:30pmAnd you as well, TEXAS.
Report Post »tankyjo
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 11:09pmAs I have stated in the past, the whole concept of ‘race’ racism’, multiple human ‘races’, is a false premise to begin with. Whether you believe in creation, or evolution, we came from one pair of humans. The evolutionists even discovered this in the mitochondrial studies of a decade ago published in Scientific American. They were, however, revised with the implications of, I quote,” we all got off the same bus, not so very long ago, perhaps less than 10,000 years”! charlie darwin CEMENTED the concept of multiple human races in modern thinking. charlie has done more to inflame our society’s negative passions that alor jessie .
Report Post »waspanglosaxon
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:38pmOkay, Tankyjo, first of all, this silly “there are no races” talk is an old device of the extreme left, one which makes no sense whatsoever. Let me ask you: if “there are no races”, then why are you bothering even to comment? Aren’t you being a lot like these militant atheists who lead a war against God, in whom they claim not even to believe?
Report Post »Perhaps more to the point, if “there are no races”, then why do pure-blooded Whites only have White children, pure-blooded Blacks only have Black children, etc? How are forensic scientists able to identify even extremely decomposed corpses as a member of a certain race? Why do certain diseases like sickle-cell anemia, tay-sachs disease, et al only affect certain racial groups? (I guess these diseases haven’t been well-schooled in the extremist leftwing dogma of “there are no races”, eh?)
burnbabylon
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:46pmWhy didn’t they invite Jeremiah Wright?
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:26amAre you implying that if they are going to invite blacks, they are in league with Jeremiah Wright? Not only does it appear that he doesn’t even teach the same Gospel as we believe, but he is following an evil path towards hatred and division which is anti-Christ. I believe they are working towards reconciliation and healing- Christ’s simple and clear message. Yet some still find that hard to understand…
Report Post »hogtrashhd
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:44pmnegroes are imploding…
Report Post »lukerw
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:02pmA Church is a “calling out” place for people to Meet… and People are just People!
Report Post »JQCitizen
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:53pmWhile I am an enthusiastic listener to John Piper’s preaching, I don’t see the point of “setting out” to create a diverse congregation.
If brothers and sisters in Christ happen to live in the same community, and it is a diverse one, perhaps I would see a non-diverse worship experience as “odd”, but I live in a small, predominantly white community, and we have only a few people of different races who attend our church. Our church does fellowship with churches in other communities which involve us with other racial groups, but I prefer to regard them just as “brothers and sisters” in Christ. Our unity is around Him, not a studied, cross-cultural experience.
Frankly, I think the Apostle Paul said there is no “male or female; no bond or free among the brotherhood, so I welcome worshipping with anyone who desires to fellowship around Christ, the cornerstone.
Report Post »Patriot Z
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:34pmhe admits racism exists across all walks, and races since the beginning but then reverts back to the same marxist progressive talking pints of “blame whitey” “racism” existed long long long before corporations ever did. if all you needed was an all powerful govt to end racism then there would have never been racism.and infact the very points he makes are the best and sole reason why marxism and socialism and communism NEVER has, will or can work. we could do exactly as he says and bring everyone to level playing field, and almost immediatly you would see people lagging and acceling ahead. people are NOT the same never have been. the very idea that we are all carbon copies with different ‘desktop pics’ is the most ignorant and racist idea of all
Report Post »jwt
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:49pmthe humble man does not have this problem
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:19pm@Patriot – Jeez, man, are you serious? When Keller said “corporate responsibility” he wasn’t talking about corporations, he meant coporate as in all of us as a people. You know, like corporate worship? Do you people even read these articles?
Report Post »NOT A CRAZY
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:56pmWhen blacks admit that they are racist or can be racist, then we can talk. As far as these “preachers” are concerned I would have to research who they are before I put any merit in them. There are way too many emergent church types now days that are liberal and full of crap. I have reached the point were I almost cannot even go to church anymore due to this. Preachers reading out of idiotic translations of the Bible, like the Message book and so on. We are definitely in the End Times.
Report Post »DannyoftheNorth
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:42pmAs a member of Bethlehem Baptist Church, I assure you John Piper is a
Report Post »God-centered man of faith. Listening to Piper’s sermons will feed you more truth than most people are used to. He has been Bethlehems preaching pastor since 1980.
To learn more about John Piper and to listen to any of his sermons go to http://www.desiringgod.org.
The Third Archon
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:36pmAnyone want a good example of racism? Look no further than above!
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 12:15amCrazy, all translations say that in Christ we are one flesh:
1 Cor. 12:12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks (we can add black, Asian, Indian, and Arab as well), whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit. 14 For the body is not one member, but many. 15 If the foot says, “Because I am not a hand, I am not a part of the body,” it is not for this reason any the less a part of the body… 18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired…21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; or again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.” 22 On the contrary, it is much truer that the members of the body which seem to be weaker are necessary; 23 and those members of the body which we deem less honorable, on these we bestow more abundant honor, and our less presentable members become much more presentable, 24 whereas our more presentable members have no need of it. But God has so composed the body, giving more abundant honor to that member which lacked, 25 so that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. 26 And if one member suffers, all the members suffer with it; if one member is honored, all the members rejoice with it.
Report Post »MartyTr
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:53pmSatan knows what to tempt us with.
Report Post »Sirfoldallot
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:51pmWow, r we sure he doesn’t go 2 Rev. Al Shapyon’s church. Wolfs in sheeps clothing.
Report Post »MTSchmidt
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:19amperhaps you should listen to one of his sermons on race before you say that. He preaches one sermon dedicated to race and one to abortion every year – check them out on his website and listen to them before you ever speak about him. Why are people so willing to soil a man’s reputation without knowing him or the facts around him?
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:33pm@MT – “Why are people so willing to soil a man’s reputation without knowing him or the facts around him?”
Because it’s easier that way. What you’re suggesting would actually require effort.
Report Post »conservativemommy
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:39pmWell the truth of race relations in our church is: Our church is integrated and up until the last election I thought we were “all in this together” as Christians in a secular humanist world. Around the election time I noticed some of my black friends acting kind of strangely when political discussions came up. I later realized that it was because they all voted for Obama. I honestly never even suspected anyone in our church of any color ever voting for Obama because of his record on abortion, Of all of my black friends there was only ONE who did not vote for Obama and he took heat from other blacks because of it. I think it is very sad, but it does point out that the real problem is not black vs white it is the sinful nature of humanity of all colors equally.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:44pmCan’t confuse the uneducated, claim to be christian masses with Biblical truths. There is no way, based upon the Bible, that a Christian could support, in any shape form or fashion, the leftist agenda -
Report Post »Texas.7
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:47amConservativeMommy,
You are so right to make the observation regarding the damage that our leaders have caused. You can see the hatred and pure evil pouring forth from all who are using this “hoodie” thing to reignite that hatred where it had been healed. Our president has done more harm towards uniting the races than any of his predecessors. All who seek division are anti-Christ, who came to tear down all divisions and free those who were captive. He reconciled us to God, as well as to one another, so that we could be One Body. I am praying for revival, and for the Spirit of Love to quench the fire that the enemy fans.
Report Post »DonaldH
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:38pmwhite Christian peolpe can’t grasp the concept of what “corporate evil” is. HuH? WoW!! why didn’t he just call us dirty greedy Jews like they did in 1938. Beware folks, Capitalist of today are being set-up to be the Jews that created the worlds economic problems pre WWII
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 10:01pm@Donald – Please tell me you didn’t think Keller was talking about corporations when he said “corporate evil.” Please tell me that you‘re not so wrapped up in the whole OWS nonsense that you can’t tell the difference between “corporate” as in corporation and “corporate” as in a group or body of people, as in humanity. Come on people! Can we please expand our understanding of what people say beyond our narrow views shaped by narrow minds?
Report Post »Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:33pmOf course, even God is racist, if you are evil, you can’t go to heaven. Why is he racist against evil people? Why can’t evil come to the promised land. Those demons are tired of being locked out just because of “Life” choices. How about those murderers? Just because they broke the rules. Heaven should be an equal access plane of existance. Come on, set Al Sharpton loose on God.
Report Post »Marine25
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:37pmBy definition, one can’t be “racist” against evil. Buy a dictionary.
Report Post »bikerr
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 11:00pm@Marine25—I do believe Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra——- was being SARCASTIC. As far as buying a dictionary,maybe you should read yours.
Report Post »marine249
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 11:36pmMARINE25 I hate to tell you but I agree with BIKERR
SEMPER FI
Report Post »RoqueGerig
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 9:48amBut you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God’s OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Why not?
Report Post »ProTheist
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:33pmKeller and Piper. Two of the greatest and most incredible minds who pursue the heart of God and the spread of his good news.
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:24pmThe only real racism that exists is on the left – there are no conservative racist – we look at the content of character
Report Post »Baddoggy
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:33pmBullcrap. Just watch the racial slurs coming in to the BLAZE. Makes me sick. But I suppose you are blind to them in your righteousness…
Report Post »Since the Zimmerman thing i have seen tons of radcial remarks that are beyond the pale.
kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 8:35pmand what Bible is this guy reading?
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:35pm@baddoogy – really? and those racist comments couldn’t possibly come from trolls (like the jury is still out as to your identity)?
It is pretty easy to identify them, they usually make some outrageous, stereotypical claim, that is so beyond the pale of any decent human being, or they resort to some other equally ludicrous school yard name calling that usually equates to a slur comparable to “ you have cooties”
I leave the rest for you to decide
Report Post »Exrepublisheep
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:43pm@KD “The only real racism that exists is on the left – there are no conservative racist – we look at the content of character.” That is an outrageous stereotypical claim. In fact, I think you’re a troll.
Report Post »Marine25
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 9:48pm@baddoggy
Report Post »These are the “never racist” conservatives that are driving other white conservatives from the movement. I have never voted Democratic in a general election, but I won’t vote for any candidate of this tea-party, racist remake of the conservaative movement.
As for your Zimmerman comment, it has pushed this site from covert racism to overt racism. Already news outlets are citing The Blaze as an example of “right-wing racist websites.”
Goodbye independent vote, goodbye minority and woman vote. The Confederate vote is in the bag.
Lincoln, Eisenhauer, Goldwater. Buckley and Reagan must be proud.
kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:04pm@ exrepub – really ?- exactly how do arrive at your conclusion? So are you saying that you do not understand what makes one a conservative? Are you saying that it is not possible that people actually really look at the content of character? Are you saying, through the skin color prism of leftism , that because the left cannot look at someone’s character, it is impossible for any one else to do so?
Report Post »kaydeebeau
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:14pm@ Marine you really care how a leftist org characterizes someone? You really base your thoughts and opinions on what is deemed “popular”? What exactly is an independent? Someone who wants to straddle the fence? Someone too afraid to take a side? There are only 2 sides – the truth and the falsehood. We live in a binary choice world – no gray – black, white – right, wrong – true, false.
Ever heard of the Law of Non-contradiction?
It is long past time to pick a side
Report Post »Patriot Z
Posted on March 30, 2012 at 10:27pmbad- there is racism on both sideds, but the difference is we may use racial slurs, the left entire being is based on segregation and race baiting. we say people are not the same but capable of living their own lives good or bad and taking responsibility for it. the left says white people are racist because we wont classify people by color and give special privliges. the left cries about ‘jim crowe’(laws which were created by the dems) and then proceed to force ‘affirmative action down our throats. bad doggy you talk about racial slurs here, but fail to adress the racial slurs and racist actions of the left which trump us exponentially. There is far more racism on the left…REAL racism than the right. and a good portion comes from the so called black leaders and the most vocal mainstream left.
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:22pm@KAY – “It is pretty easy to identify them, they usually make some outrageous, stereotypical claim, that is so beyond the pale of any decent human being”
You mean like “The only real racism that exists is on the left – there are no conservative racist”?
Report Post »bmarchand
Posted on March 31, 2012 at 11:45pm@Patriot – “There is far more racism on the left…REAL racism than the right. and a good portion comes from the so called black leaders and the most vocal mainstream left.”
But that doesn’t make it okay… for either side. I hear your frustration, but you can’t justify any kind of bad behavior by saying “Well, they’re worse!“ Want to really separate yourself from the ”left”? Don’t be racist at all – no slurs, no names, none of it.
“Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” Romans 12:19-21, ESV
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