Raw Video: Police Tackle Lawmaker Trying to Bolt Into Wisconsin Capitol
- Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:29am by
Scott Baker
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Update:
Milroy has issued a statement in response to the incident. See our story on that here.
—
Wisconsin Democratic State Representative Nick Milroy camped outside the Capitol building on Thursday. This is him on the left:
But sometime Thursday night Milroy decided he would try to move from outside to inside in order to get some clothes out of his office. This conflicted with the current directive to clear and clean the seat of Wisconsin state government. This was the result:
It should be noted that the police were simply doing their job trying to protect the statehouse. The Capitol was officially closed for cleaning and no one was supposed to enter — or in Milroy’s case, try to enter. He was reportedly not arrested but rather restrained.
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Comments (363)
Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:28amI found this article on the FoxNews sight, and it mentioned that the GOP leadership in the Wisconsin senate issued orders to the state troopers to do all that is needed to for bringing the awol dems back to the senate chambers…might be related to why the guy sought to run into the building…
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/03/03/senate-gop-wisconsin-order-police-awol-dems-custody/
Report Post »nptden
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:21amThank God, police are still being Police…These bastards are abusing the rights to demonstrate…They are obstructing legislation….Time for the real people to be heard, not the union. Why should they pay for the inflated salaries and benefits that they do not enjoy themselves?…..time for the police to determine the outlaws.
Report Post »justice
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:11amAnother above the law-maker. They think the laws are for only common people. Trying to become a 5 minutes of famer on you-tube LOL.
Report Post »vtxphantom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:55amThe Wisconsin capitol building is a beautiful building. Over the last two weeks, over 7 million $ in damage has been done to it. A judge ordered the building cleared out so it could be cleaned and the slobs kicked out. The capitol will be opened for normal business hours tomorrow. No more camping out! I’m glad the cops busted this guy for violating the judges order.
Report Post »HenHouse
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:03amyou dont really beleive the $7 mil lie do you ?
Report Post »vtxphantom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:40amI do believe the 7 million. These people did a lot of damage. Check out Vicki McKenna’s web site. She is a talker for WISN, http://www.newstalk1130.com/pages/mckenna_blog.html . There is a link there to her facebook. She should have photos posted.
Report Post »BlueStrat
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:54amYeah, but who are you gonna believe, a Wisconsin Democrat or photographs and your lying eyes?
What many people don’t understand is that when dealing with marble & granite floors and structures, there’s only a very limited amount of “repair” that can be done. A “repair” in many cases means outright replacing that marble/granite, as “patching” decorative marble and granite often results in ugly, scarred surfaces unacceptable for any respectable seat of government.
Check pricing on large slabs of high-quality marble and granite sometime. It wasn’t cheap over a hundred years ago, and it’s much, much more expensive now.
But hey, it’s like, totally cool and rad to protest and destroy things. It only costs the government money, not actual people.
Right?
Maybe Obama can pay for it out of his “stash”. O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma! O-ba-ma!
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:07amLooks like @henhouse is our newist troll! Please see @cheezwiz for a detailed description of what is considered a troll here.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:42am@Wdawg
Thanks for the link; I am amazed this represenative did not try screaming “Don’t taze me, I work here and pay your salaries…”
Then again, that just may have constituted the police being able to arrest him for interferance with the duties of an officer; no paycheck or funds to the police, then becomes interferance with their duties.
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:37am@NZKiwi
Dead on, I have to wonder if this stunt was pulled for a greater motive, such as trying to show the world at large ‘hostile police interferance’ with the civic duties of the represenatives of the state.
Of course, it could also mean the guy is just a complete and utterly clueless moron who is desperate to be jailed and fired.
Report Post »Kathleen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:36amThat’s just shameful. Aren’t these people embarrassed? Haven’t they grown up yet?
Report Post »Sterling Mac
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:34amWhat a baby! Why the temper tantrum, huh??
Report Post »itsmyfirstday
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:27amIf I don’t get it my way…I will pick up my toys and go home (or out of state) and then have my friends (in the unions) call you names and spread rumors…..hmmmmm sounds like a good reason to do away with recess in elementary school….who knew these tactics would carry over to there working careers years later…
Report Post »Sterling Mac
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:27amIf he just needed something from his office, why didn’t he just say so?? Oh… Because he knew that wouldn’t work! This guy has the mind of a toddler. Condolences to the cops who have to babysit these freaks.
Report Post »BlueStrat
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:19am“You can’t stop me! I’ve got Elitist Democrat immunity!”
How‘s that workin’ out for ya, Representative?
I love the smell of arrogant elitists eating marble floor in the morning!
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:33amTrue, unlike the moronic one we have here in AZ who got involved with a domestic violence; and he had the audacity to claim ‘legislative immunity’ to avoid having his tail thrown into the clinker. So at least one may have gotten the message via solid marble.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:18amCourt Order: Capital building closed for 48 hours for de-infestation of lib mites. Building to reopen at 8:00 am on Monday, and lib mites can re-infest.
I guess this guy didn’t get the memo.
Report Post »proliance
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 7:54amThe memo said the capitol building was closed to protesters. It was still open to legislators.
Report Post »hstdal
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:13am@PROLIANCE – He wasnt just going to his office, doing his job. LOOK CLOSER AT THE VIDEO. First of all, dont you wonder why there just happened to be a camera at that exact door, at that exact time? It was setup. Then regardless of all the other stuff that guy shoved his way through police officers who were trying to speak with him. The police did their job. I dont care who you are we should all be treated equally. If you just ran up to a clsed building that was tense like that and started trying to shove your way past officers versus calmly providing ID and requesting access then the same thing would have happened. DONT PLAY US FOR STOOPID!! (for you leftists – I know how to spell stupid).
Report Post »Alan
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:03amExtra, extra! Democratic Senator thrown to ground by police! Main Stream Media fault Tea Party!
Report Post »HenHouse
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:14amDemocratic state Rep. Nick Milroy (South Grange) not senator
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:04amYeah, this Representative,already got his *ss handed to him.
Report Post »TexasBeef
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:00amHe was being real brave, fighting the man, you know. They should have introduced him to the tazer, give him a chance to find out what it is to be a real martyr.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:09am“don’t taze me Bro”………thats it ….DO THE WORM DANCE!!!!!
Report Post »drattastic
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:58amBig belly laugh here.
Report Post »RevDarwinEllis
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:56amThis is crazy! Just go back to work you socialist nut cases!!!!!! This nation will never bow to socialism. The sad thing is that these hippies will push and push and push until the real men and woman stand up and put these weak,lazy,soft liberals in their place! It’s sad it will come to this. If it‘s a civil war you unshaved hippies want it’s a civil war you will get! You can’t fight hippies, don‘t start a fight you can’t finish! The real Americans will rise up soon and very soon.
Report Post »proliance
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 7:44amUmmm, he was going to work. And the cops stopped him.
Report Post »burnteye86
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:56amThis shows how thuggish the left has become. Even their leaders have no respect for law and order. I hope WS. voters remember this jackass next election.
Report Post »nzkiwi
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:55amThat was obviously a try-on, and he got what he asked for.
Report Post »burnteye86
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:51amHe knew he was being filmed and he was trying to become a media sensation for the left.
Report Post »justice
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:07amExactly!
Report Post »nptden
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 4:24amYep..they have a way of provoking.
Report Post »HUGGINGMYBABIES
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 7:51amDemocratic martyrdom! Right……..purely for film. This man’s a nut.
Report Post »Thunderstorm 316
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:51amOk so there is extream right and left, and what does that have to do with a law maker getting draged out by police?
Report Post »razeus1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:45amOK soooo why did he try this? Was it just to be a horses arse??
Report Post »Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:58amNo, he just used his brains after sitting around upon his royal tushie for a number of weeks, it took that long for the brain mass to congeal into a functional thought…not a good one, just functional.
Report Post »338lapua
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:02amHe was uppin his cred with the union masters. They probably didn’t like something he did that day and he needed a video on a site like the Blaze to get his people to love him again. And as a sidenote this looks great for the capitol police who have been accused of being in the union bag(they are) for two weeks now. This is a win win for the mob.
Report Post »ilovethiscountry
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:58amHe was just acting like a little kid who was told not to do something. He had to try it to see if they really meant it and see if he could get away with it.
Report Post »Venom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:43amWow your not above the law.
Report Post »rpp
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:05amAs a legislator, he had every right to be in the building. The police ignored his credentials and simply took the opportunity to assault a political enemy while being able to claim “mistaken identity.” The cops here are just like teamster thugs. Very unprofessional.
troy1968
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:47amRPP Spoken like a true LIBERAL
Report Post »TJMan
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:57amRPP He, as was everyone, was told to vacate the building, Last I checked everyone includes some pompass A-hole who believes himself either above the law, or, better than everyone else. I’ll tell you, as I would him, Get Over Yourself!
Report Post »walkwithme1966
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 6:32amHe was just trying to get to his office – I think the whole thing was a little excessive!!
Report Post »http://wp.me/pYLB7-Il
proliance
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 7:43amDidn’t a judge rule for the protesters to clear the building during non-business hours? It seems the legislator had every right to be in the place of his work and the cops over reacted.
Report Post »Hugh Williams
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:04amOK…. A leftist instigates a confrontation with police in front of TV cameras. Wow this is a first! RPP I am shocked you admit your beloved union members are brainless thugs controlled by the puppet master union bosses.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:41amRPP – I guess this newspaper does supply ALL the news. The cops are on the side of the protestors. However, when security is involved – they will do their duty. There was a report of ‘bullets’ on the grounds. Where was the gun??
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:05amThere was a report of ‘bullets’ on the grounds. Where was the gun??
My guess would be in the pocket of the union thug who brought it there.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:09am@BLACKHAWK. They how come NO violence has taken place in the last three weeks. NOT one sign!
However, O’Reilly did manage to show video of some nasty arguments at a rally CLAIMING that it was in Madison. Can you PLEASE show me PALM trees in Madison?? The video is on U-tube!
Report Post »hstdal
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:21am@VerySeniorCitizen – is obviously delusional. There has been so much violence shown from WI and other states where unions and liberals are protesting. You state, no violence in 3 weeks, ha. Look at the Tea Party, the LIBERAL MSM talked about violence and racism with them constantly but no station could provide video or proof. However, lets look at this ridonkulous mess with democrats. Violence, hate, hate speech, offensive signs, and threats on videos, speeches, signs, interviews, and from multiple locations, AND THE MSM SAYS NOTHING. WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:21am@ BLACKHAWK.
You just proved that you DON’T read other sites – or listen to new broadcasts!
Try it. You might just learn something that Glenn DOESN’T think you need to know!
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 1:09pmMaybe the Capital Police are looking for a stash of ammo and a possible weapon and until they can clear the inside of the building by searching with the janitors cleaning then you want to keep “ALL” un-cleared personal from the area you are searching.
But this also shows the arrogance of the Representative since he feels that the rules don’t apply to me because I am special. Maybe he should have gone home to his home to get a set of clothing but since he wanted to keep his spot so then he should do what the Homeless do wear the same clothes for as long as you can.
Report Post »Elev8n
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:40amScr3w CAIR. That group is evil.
Report Post »Elev8n
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:39amCan’t believe that cop took so long to take the Rep. to the ground.
Report Post »Elev8n
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:38amCan‘t believe that cop couldn’t throm him down immediately.
CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:10amFor the record: Wisconsin state employees ALREADY contribute to their own benefits and have agreed to pay more and they already pay 100% of the contributions to their own pensions.
Uncle Crusty
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:16amif that were the case KOOK, why is the new law so bad? and why are thye protesting? no just for collective bargaining, no no. you are misinformed…
just so you know, this bill does end CB, but limits it to wages only! I think personnally, that PUBLIC UNIONS have not right to collective bargain period – so you got it good with Walker, you dolt!
Report Post »natstew
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:20amcaptainkook, Wisconsin State workers don’t pay 100% of their pensions. Try the truth for once. You’re just like the ignorant union thugs protesting.
CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:25am@ natstew
“Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.” – via tax.com
http://tax.com/
How can this be possible?
Simple. The pension plan is the direct result of deferred compensation- money that employees would have been paid as cash salary but choose, instead, to have placed in the state operated pension fund where the money can be professionally invested (at a lower cost of management) for the future.
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
GODSAMERICA
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:29am@CaptVideo – captkook posted because like the others cannot stand to see the truth without trying to fill it full of lies and misdirect it into trying to make it look good. Like they say: Beware of those who call good evil and evil good and it looks like the kook is trying it.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:31amFor EXACTLY the same reason I am posting.
This video proves something. The Governor does at least get OBEYED when he says ALL persons must empty the building because ‘bullets’ were found on the grounds. But this story doesn’t mention that , does it?. And if you suggest that it was the protesters who left them outside, please remember that Walker already agreed that he had contemplated putting ‘trouble-makers’ in the crowd!
As for stopping protesters entering the building AFTER the cleaning. Just watch. Walker DOESN’T own the building, he DOESN’T own the cops, and he doesn’t own the people who DO own the building.
And regarding all the calls for ‘I WANT MY COUNTRY BACK’during the last election? I doubt that any of those folks meant to say I want my State to be a Dictatorship – which is what Governor Walker is aiming for, Argue that if you can. As of the last Rasmussen poll (right wing) If the election was today he would loose by a landslide! By 68%
VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:37amUNCLE CRUSTY
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:16am
if that were the case KOOK, why is the new law so bad? and why are thye protesting? no just for collective bargaining, no no. you are misinformed…
just so you know, this bill does end CB, but limits it to wages only! I think personnally, that PUBLIC UNIONS have not right to collective bargain period – so you got it good with Walker, you dolt!
————————————————–
Did the good people of Wisconsin REALLY vote for a Dictator? Was that what they meant when they said “I want my country back’? Read the right-wing Rasmussen poll. If the election was held today Walker would lose by a margin of 68 to 32. Does that tell you maybe that he has maybe overstepped his authority?
Report Post »JoeNY
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:42amDa, da, da, dope. Got what was coming to him. I bet he puts in a complaint.
Report Post »dthomps6
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:43am@Captainkook: Suppose they didn’t want to contribute to a pension and they wanted to take that money and invest it in stocks by themselves, would they be allowed to have the money that would usually go to the pension? My bet is no.
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:45amOnce again verysenior proves that there is no fool like an old fool. Yes, the Governor did say that during a meeting someone brought up putting trouble makers in the crowd and the suggestion was quickly shot down. As for being a Dictator, are you trying to say that there is no longer a State House or Senate in the state of Wisconsin or is it just that the people of Wisconsin have voted out the Democrats? As for it being the “people’s house”, that is such a stupid statement that only morons and zealots think it makes sense. Try walking into the White House and telling everyone that it’s the “people’s house” and you can come and go as you please, dimwit. It’s the “peoples house” in the sense that the people elect who controls it until the next election, not in the sense that the “people” can come and go as they please and camp out there when they want. Fool.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:52am@ dthomps6
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:43am
re: @Captainkook: Suppose they didn’t want to contribute to a pension and they wanted to take that money and invest it in stocks by themselves, would they be allowed to have the money that would usually go to the pension? My bet is no.”
That’s a good question, I don’t know the answer.
If I was a Wisconsin state employere I’d not take the risk of trying to game the stock market but would opt for the more conservative self-funding plan through deferred compensation.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:54amHey Kook why don’t you try using some REAL facts for a change instead of liberal propaganda? Here are some facts for you.
$1.37 billion Amount taxpayers contributed to the state’s pension fund 2009 (Leg. Fiscal Bureau)
$8 million Amount public employees contributed to the state”s pension fund in 2009 (LFB)
$3.26 Amount per hour worked state and local government employers (you the taxpayer) spent for
employee retirement and savings benefits 2010 (the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)
$0.99 Amount per hour worked private industry employers spent for employee retirement and savings
benefits 2010 (the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics)
$1 billion Amount WI taxpayers spend on state government health insurance each year (ETF)
$64 million Amount state employees pay toward their health insurance each year (ETF)
$936.00 Amount a state employee contributes annually toward family premium (HC Trends)
$19,128.00 Amount taxpayers pay toward a state employees” family premium (HC Trends)
See the difference in actual FACTS and what the liberals are spinning out there!
CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:55am@ Rickfromillinois
Report Post »Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:45am
re: “Once again verysenior proves that there is no fool like an old fool. ”
As another old fool I can state with absolute certainty that the only thing more foolish than an old fool is a young inexperienced fool.
CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:04am@ Blackhawk1
“..while it is true that it is state employees’ own money that funds the pension plan, when the pension plan comes up short it is up to the taxpayer to make up the difference.
There is some truth in this – but not as much as many seem to think. Because the pension plan is a defined benefit plan – requiring the state to pay the agreed benefit for however long the employee may live in retirement – if the employee lives longer than the actuarial plan anticipated, the taxpayer is on the hook for the pay-outs during the longer life.
But is this the fault of the state employees? The pension agreements are the result of collective bargaining. That means that the state has every opportunity to properly calculate the anticipated lifespan and then add on some margin for error. What’s more, the losses taken by the pension funds over the past few years can hardly be blamed on the employees.
Take a look at what Sue Urahn, an expert on the subject at the Pew Center on the States, has to say about this when describing the $1 trillion gap that existed between the $2.35 trillion states had set aside to pay for employees’ retirement benefits and the $3.35 trillion price tag of those promises.at the end of 2008-
“To a significant degree, the $1 trillion reflects states’ own policy choices and lack of discipline:
•• failing to make annual payments for pension systems at the levels recommended by their own actuaries;
•• expanding benefits and offering cost-of-living increases without fully considering their long-term price tag or determining how to pay for them; and
•• providing retiree health care without adequately funding it.” – via Pew Center on the States
That is the point. While the governor of Wisconsin is busy trying to shift the blame to the workers in an effort to put an end to collective bargaining, the reality is that it was the state who punted on this – not the employees.
Further, by the state employee unions agreeing to the deal proposed by Walker on their benefits (as they have despite Walker’s refusal to accept it) they are taking on much – and possibly all – of the obligation out of their own pockets.
As a result, the taxpayers do not contribute to the public employee pension programs so much as serve as insurers.
If their elected officials have been sloppy , the taxpayers must stand behind it. But if the market continues to perform as it has been performing this past year, don’t be surprised if the funding crisis begins to recede. If it does, what will you say then?
–
Report Post »http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:16amWay to take something out of a Blog. The lie that the liberals are trying to sell as truth is based on the assumption that State Employees pay excessive taxes so therefore they are paying their own wages and benefits. In order for the liberal formula to work a State employee would have to pay the equivalent in taxes to their pay and benefits. This is not reality.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:24am@Blackhawk1
re:”The lie that the liberals are trying to sell as truth is based on the assumption that State Employees pay excessive taxes so therefore they are paying their own wages and benefits.”
You are the first I’ve heard of to tell that lie.
Report Post »Rickfromillinois
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:30amAnd worse of all is the loud mouth fool who talks about something he knows nothing about. I haven’t been called “young” in over 35 years. As for my experience or lack thereof, obviously you know nothing about what I have or have not experienced. Perhaps you should adhere to the old adage that it is better to keep your mouth shut and thought a fool then it is to open it and remove all doubt.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:34am@ Rickfromillinois
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:30am
And worse of all is the loud mouth fool who talks about something he knows nothing about. I haven’t been called “young” in over 35 years.
LOL – just between us old codgers, I can relate to that.
Report Post »hstdal
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:35am@CaptainKook= just that, a kook. Give me a break. A tipical liberal nutjob and union member (CANCER of the US). Spouting off details that are only meant to distract instead of dealing with reality. EVERYONE knows the unions agreed to pay a little more of their benefits and pension, of course it doesnt compare to typical private sector workers who pay their salaries, But this isnt the only issue. We have to cut the legs off the union monster so that when WI cuts the budget and passes those cuts to the local level the local uinions wont do what they do best, demand they pay 5% or less of their fair share, raise taxes on wealthy Americans living in WI who already pay more than their fair share, and cut in other areas as long as it isnt theirs. If we (we=conservatives, fiscal realists, people with common sense) dont get this done now accross the country and deal with federal financial issues soon this country will be lost, changed forever in a negative way. This is so serious, so real, and meanwhile so many people dont care or are truly selfish in their view – the takers. Quit blaming big corporations, corporate america gave more to democrats than republicans, the insurance industry helped the unions write Obamacare, YOU DEMOCRATS HAVE BEEN DUPED WITH BS WHILE YOUR PARTY DOES WHAT THEY ACUSE OTHERS OF DOING. Of course its really because all of us racist bastages…;-)
Report Post »sleazyhippo
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:36amIt’s a bit perverse and a lot silly that in our capitalist society we do not celebrate the ability of workers to succeed, and we treat hard working patriots who protect us and teach our children like enemies. Public service is lots harder than private service, that’s why all the unethical greed types are on Wall Street.
Report Post »sleazyhippo
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:37amTeachers pay 30% in taxes and estimate that they donate $400.00 a year in student school supplies. The Wisconsin Institute of Certified Public Accountants estimates that the average wage earner above 120,000.00 pays income taxes at the 10% to 15% level.
Report Post »Iowa_man
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:39amHey CaptainKook, If the government officials have been sloppy, just what party was it that was in control all those years to create this problem? Maybe that is why there has been a change in leadership and someone is now in power that will give us real hope and CHANGE. Just sayn’
Report Post »Resolved
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:48amI’m pretty sure no one is blaming the workers here. We’re blaming 1) bad promises made by the state, and 2) Unions who won’t make cuts. Correct me if I’m wrong, but my understanding is whatever Unions can’t get through Collective Bargaining they get through the Legislator anyway. Collective Bargaining is all well in good, but when you allow Unions the ability to ask for more than is sustainable, you’re asking for trouble.
Report Post »Resolved
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:54am@SleazyHippo; The Graduated Tax (or Progressive Tax), in my eyes, works contrary to the statistics you’re giving, since your income bracket helps determine your tax margin. I’d like to know more about that, perhaps even see a source.
Report Post »mill
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:56amA state, city etc….should not contribute more than the employee is willing to contribute.
It is our money…not a union workers money. I don’t care what “deals” they made.
They deserve no more than the people that are supporting them. So go ahead, tell us all your facts an figures, all the rude words…I don’t care…I will still say….
They deserve no more than what they contribute and no more than the average private citizen gets, period.
For better or worse..this is a new world. People need to be more independent. Stop trying to screw the taxpayer with the pensions and health care etc. What the unions are doing is wrong, period
did Milroy speak to police and ask them to help him get his things…maybe they mistook him for a republican.. either way…it appears the police are quick to action for the wrong things in WI
Report Post »Iowa_man
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:58amHey sleazyhippo, I’m in that pay range of 120K and trust me, I wish I was only paying at the 30% level.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:02amI‘m wondering WHY the Governor doesn’t show good faith by REDUCING his own pension plan? I haven’t seen (on this site) that Walker gave a $40K RAISE to some of his ‘very close’ advisors – with guaranteed pensions . Does that sound like someone who care about the tax-payers money??
Report Post »RedneckJim
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:03amHey Kook – Even that tax report story stated it succinctly, that the amount going to their retirement would have been paid to them in the form of cash. My employer contributes to my 401k and health insurance, but that does not mean I did not receive compensation me simply because I didn’t receive it in cash.
For bureaucrats, the characterization of anything being employee contributions is a red herring, smoke and mirrors. The bottom line is, 100% of the bureaucrats’ compensation, whether it be in cash or benefits, is paid for by taxpayers (unless, of course, they have 2nd jobs in the private sector).
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:03am@Iowa_man
The Wisconsin legislature has never been 100% in the hands of any single party so you can spread the blame in all directions – but that does not justify the destructive scam Walker is trying to pull here.
Report Post »hstdal
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:05am@SLEAZYHIPPO – another tipical union/liberal/democratic tactic. No what hates the poor teachers that have to cross snow on a mule at 5am eveery day while picking up food along the way for the little children who are abused by their republican parents…..shut up.
Ever notice why LIBERAL NUTJOBS always have screen names with words like SLEAZY, KOOK, PERV, DUMBA$$, SUGARPANTS, IDIOT, etc? THAT SHOULD SAY ENOUGH…
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:06amHippo
Do you liberals just pick numbers out of the air and try to state them as fact?
Teachers pay 30% in taxes? I guess your just like the Democrat Politicians, throw pooh against the wall and see if anything sticks. The only thing that could make that true is if, and I say IF you combine State and Federal income tax rates but totally ignore doing the same for people earning over 120K a year. BTW here is what MPS get “$100,005.00 Average Milwaukee Public Schools teacher compensation (salary & fringe) 2010″
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:12amRedneckJim
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:03am
@ RedneckJim
Hey Kook – Even that tax report story stated it succinctly, that the amount going to their retirement would have been paid to them in the form of cash. My employer contributes to my 401k and health insurance, but that does not mean I did not receive compensation me simply because I didn’t receive it in cash.”
And why should that make a difference? The state pays employees the salary the state agreed to pay – putting a certain percentage of that pay in the state employees’ pension plan does not increase the costs to the state.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:16amNow the petty dictator Walker is going after the legislative body. This dictator needs to be arrested or impeached, next year’s recall can;t happen soon enough.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:17amVerySeniorCitizen
Please next time you make an outrageous claim put a source with it. Walker gave his buddies a 40K raise with a lifetime pension? I can’t find that anywhere…probably because it’s a big fat lie, right?
Iowa_man
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:17amCaptainKook,
you said: “The Wisconsin legislature has never been 100% in the hands of any single party so you can spread the blame in all directions – but that does not justify the destructive scam Walker is trying to pull here.”
The government is not controlled by one exclusive party now either is it? Its the party in power that determines what is passed and what goes on the table. Unless of course youre one of the missing 14 democrats that choose to not play by the same rules as those in the past have adhered to. Not surprising, given the irrational government of the past that put us in this mess. Its way past time to clean it up. I think Wisconsin voters voted in the Hope and Change they were looking for. Its just the people who have had it there way for too long kicking up a two year old’s fuss. Walker is leading real reform. Something you and your ilk are not used to. Sorry.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:23am@ Iowa_man
Report Post »re “The government is not controlled by one exclusive party now either is it? ”
And thank goodness for that – that’s the reason Walker will not succeed in enacting his scam.
Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:25amI say give all Government employees the same deal whether it be Federal or State. This is what Federal Employees get. No Collective Bargaining, a TSP plan (Thrift Saving Plan) aka 401K, contribute one-third of the cost of health care insurance. Boy we sure would hear the crying then.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:28amencinom
The only recalls will be of the 14 Democrats who refuse to do the job they were elected to do. Walker on the other hand is doing exactly what he told the voters he would do, just like when he was Milwaukee County executive.
Report Post »Bullcop34
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:38amDon’t really care who your are, do not put your hands on a cop. Just a hint, we don’t like that.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:38am@ Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:28am
re: “encinom
The only recalls will be of the 14 Democrats who refuse to do the job they were elected to do. Walker on the other hand is doing exactly what he told the voters he would do, just like when he was Milwaukee County executive.”
Walker never stated that he intended to attack union collective bargaining rights.
And his record as County Executive shows that the state has a huge court-ordered debt to pay for his mismanagement of that county’s courthouse:
“Walker’s strategy of firing the union security guards to cope with a contrived “budget emergency” went awry. Just last month, on January 10, 2011, an arbitrator ruled that the county did not have a true budget crisis at the time Walker fired the guards, and county officials failed to give the union representing the guards a chance to propose alternative cost-saving measures before laying them off. The arbitrator also said the annual savings Walker claimed the county would realize from privatizing courthouse security was overstated.
The ruling ordered the county to immediately hire back the fired guards, with back pay, and unemployment compensation or wages from any new jobs subtracted. It also guaranteed the fired guards at least 180 days of work — the same amount of time that should have been given to the guards’ union to react to Walker’s plan to privatize.
This means that Walker’s last rash action toward the public’s employees cost the county plenty.
Report Post »http://westorlandonews.com/2011/02/22/gov-scott-walker-past-privatization-disasters-unmasked/
VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:39amhttp://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-march-3-2011/crisis-in-the-dairyland—for-richer-and-poorer—teac
Watch – and learn!
Report Post »Iowa_man
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:40am@CaptainKook,
re “The government is not controlled by one exclusive party now either is it? ”
And thank goodness for that – that’s the reason Walker will not succeed in enacting his scam.
Having a hard time accepting the fact that it was the Democrat controlled state government that caused the problems hey? Well, I have news for you, spout off all you want, the bill will pass. If the state government has to shut down or layoff employees, the blame goes squarely on the the same kind of democrats that caused the problem in the first place. No wonder the folks in your state have had enough.
Report Post »dawg22
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:41amHey there Kook…. just so you know 100% of a public employee’s wages and benefits are paid by US!!!! You have a link for that?
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:45amVerySeniorCitizen
OMG, no wonder you are clueless. You take your news from a comedian on comedy central.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:51amKook
Scott Walker ran and was elected by the people as a fiscal conservative Republican, and he is governing as a fiscally conservative Republican. He is doing exactly what he promised he would do. I know it’s hard for a liberal to believe someone actually does what he says he will do but all I can say, Learn to Live with it because Ohio, Indiana, and a host of other States are following suit.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:54am@ dawg22
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:41am
Hey there Kook…. just so you know 100% of a public employee’s wages and benefits are paid by US!!!! You have a link for that?”
You have a problem with paying people for their work?
I know – the modern-day so-called “conservative” wants the government to function efficiently and to be there when they need it – just as long as it doesn’t cost him anything – the ultimate in freeloading.
Report Post »WonAndDone2012
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:56am“100%”??? Hahahahahahahaha. Nice try. Put the bong down, hippie, and wake up. Seriously.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:03amLet’s look at what a Democrat does to cause Fiscal calamities.
Doyle: “The budget does not raise taxes on middle class families.”
Fact: The budget includes a $335 million tax increase on tobacco consumers, whose median income is a little more than $36,000 and who make about 30 percent less than non-smokers.
Fact: A $100 million-plus tax on phones, which apparently only wealthy people own.
Fact: A new tax on garbage collection, again apparently only wealthy people have trash.
Doyle: “This budget ensures that Wisconsin families have affordable access to health care.”
Fact: The budget raises the hospital tax by $854 million, making health care less affordable. It also raises other health care related taxes by another over $490 million on health insurance, nursing homes, and ambulatory surgical centers. These tax hikes also qualify as a billion-dollar-plus tax hike on middle class families (see above).
Doyle: “Wisconsin is definitely open for business… [the budget] invests in Wisconsin businesses that will create jobs and lead to future growth.”
Fact: Creates a new 7.75% top income tax rate pegged at $287 million. Well over two thirds of small businesses file personal income tax returns as “pass-through” entities. Most of these businesses will be forced to raise prices on Wisconsin consumers or lay off employees.
Fact: $242 million tax hike on capital gains, which will impede business investment.
Fact: “Throw-out sales” rule is another $80 million tax hike on business.
Doyle: “We’ve cut more than $3 billion in state spending…we cut spending here in Wisconsin by 3 percent.”
Fact: The budget is a 6.6% increase in overall spending, despite an ironic $6.6 billion overspending problem this year. A quote from Gov. Doyle that we don’t disagree with: “Just as Wisconsin families and businesses cut back, so can state government.” Exactly – only you failed to do that.
Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:07amKook You asked “You have a problem with paying people for their work?” No conservatives have no problem paying people for their work, we have a problem OVERPAYING them for their work. I notice you won’t address having ALL public employees getting the same deal Federal Employees get. I for one wouldn’t have a problem with it.
Report Post »atoless
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:09am@CAPTAINKOOK
“For the record: Wisconsin state employees ALREADY contribute to their own benefits and have agreed to pay more and they already pay 100% of the contributions to their own pensions.”
Say something like 10% if you really want to lie. 100% is just not even funny. Here is the fact moron. Directly from Wisconsin GOV website.
“public employees pay 5 to 6 percent of their salaries into their pensions”
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:11am@ Blackhawk
re “Kook You asked “You have a problem with paying people for their work?” No conservatives have no problem paying people for their work, we have a problem OVERPAYING them for their work.”
Ah – there it is. Teachers making roughly the average pay for the US are “overpaid”.
Report Post »Sure they are.
Conservative New Yorker
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:12amHi everyone!
Thought I’d post this up front for the Blazers to see: I read on Foxnation that these lib trolls are paid by the replies they get from regular posters. Let’s hit them in their wallets- completely ignore them and their tripe.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:16am@ atoless
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:09am
@CAPTAINKOOK
“For the record: Wisconsin state employees ALREADY contribute to their own benefits and have agreed to pay more and they already pay 100% of the contributions to their own pensions.”
re: Say something like 10% if you really want to lie. 100% is just not even funny. Here is the fact moron. Directly from Wisconsin GOV website.
“public employees pay 5 to 6 percent of their salaries into their pensions”
Thanks for proving that you slept through math class – that 5-6 percent OF THEIR OWN SALARIES covers 100% of the contributions to their pension fund.
Report Post »Robert-CA
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:18amCaptain kook = Captain loon .
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:21am@ Conservative New Yorker
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:12am
re: “Hi everyone!
Thought I’d post this up front for the Blazers to see: I read on Foxnation that these lib trolls are paid by the replies they get from regular posters. Let’s hit them in their wallets- completely ignore them and their tripe.”:
That’s interesting – where do I sign up!
FoxNation – HA HA HA
Report Post »gobluebuckeye
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:23amThat is always the excuse for the police , they were just doing their job?? That is B.S. how about use common sense, or tell the state Representative you will be tackled if you try to enter. Something, I am just sick of the excuse they were just doing their job. Its lame and says they are brainless to make rational decisions on the fly.
Report Post »democratgirl
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:25amVerySeniorCitizen:
I think YOU are misinformed. If you ARE very senior, then you would know that your class is next – class being OLD and over 62. Seniors are the largest group in America right now. Do you want your pension and SS taken and distributed, or better yet, lowered or eliminated? Did you know that this current President wants to take all 401ks and distribute that to other funds, such as welfare? Do you know that he believe that Senior Citizens are way too rich? Get your facts straight and do some homework on your own. Walker would get re-elected because people see that he wants to undo the tyrannical and debted programs that Wisc has. They are willing to do the hard thing so their state can eventually prosper, which Democrats clearly, do not understand how to do because THEY are the ones who are GREEDY and cannot do without. I do believe MOST Americans, in spite of your rhetoric, understand what they must do. They also understand what they must NOT do and that is to fall for the lies that most Dems will tell you. The left wants you to believe that compassion means taking from the rich to give to the poor, which is simply a lie. Jesus said that we would always have the poor with us. Yes, we are to help them, but we are NOT to legislate that. It should be voluntary. As for CB, NO GOVERNMENT OR PUBLIC SERVANT should be in a union because the taxpayer cannot come to the table during the collective bargaining. This is the most insane thing I have ever seen. When the taxpayer pays the public servants, it is not fair to up their wages with the taxpayer’s input. It is another form of extortion without representation. I hope someone with guts wipes out the Public Servant unions, including police, teacher, government officials of any kind. It just isn’t right. IT IS PLAIN WRONG to give them raises without approval of the American taxpayer. If you think it is right, then you’d better read your Bible AGAIN. If you don’t believe in the Bible, then there are enough Americans that do and understand what Jesus meant and what we need to do to take back America.
Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:26amKook
Exactly how many people do you know that make 100K for working 9 months out of the year? Still won’t respond about the Federal Workers benefits I see!
Report Post »atoless
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:30am“For the record: Wisconsin state employees ALREADY contribute to their own benefits and have agreed to pay more and they already pay 100% of the contributions to their own pensions.”
re: Say something like 10% if you really want to lie. 100% is just not even funny. Here is the fact moron. Directly from Wisconsin GOV website.
“public employees pay 5 to 6 percent of their salaries into their pensions”
–
Thanks for proving that you slept through math class – that 5-6 percent OF THEIR OWN SALARIES covers 100% of the contributions to their pension fund.
–
OK Great. Let’s your YOUR logic here to explain. According to Wisc’s website ” public employees pay 5 to 6 percent of their salaries into their pensions, with taxpayers kicking in roughly the same amount.”
SO if 5%-6% of salaries cover 100% of their contributions as you said, I guess we can say Tax payers cover 100% of public employee’s contributions for pensions. So which is it?
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:35amBlackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:26am
re: KookExactly how many people do you know that make 100K for working 9 months out of the year? ”
As many as you know – none [though I have met a couple of wealthy trust-fund beneficiaries who make more than that for no months of work].
Teachers are paid for nine months of work. They can collect that pay over nine months or twelve months like many do so they don’t do without a paycheck for the summer, but their total salary is the same.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:45am@ atoless
“OK Great. Let’s your YOUR logic here to explain. According to Wisc’s website ” public employees pay 5 to 6 percent of their salaries into their pensions, with taxpayers kicking in roughly the same amount.” ”
If you post the link to that I’ll read it – I’m looking at Wisconsin.gov and I don’t see your quote.
but read this again first:
“..while it is true that it is state employees’ own money that funds the pension plan, when the pension plan comes up short it is up to the taxpayer to make up the difference.
There is some truth in this – but not as much as many seem to think. Because the pension plan is a defined benefit plan – requiring the state to pay the agreed benefit for however long the employee may live in retirement – if the employee lives longer than the actuarial plan anticipated, the taxpayer is on the hook for the pay-outs during the longer life.”
Report Post »http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
schmite123oh
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:52am@Kook I thought this article was about the police officer tackling the representative not about pasting facts about how much state employees receive in benefits and pay, regardless, however you want to state those facts, it boils down to everything the public employees get paid originates from the taxpayers. That is not the case in the privat sector.
Report Post »White Devil
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:54amHey “BULLCOP34”
Report Post »You said “Don’t really care who your are, do not put your hands on a cop. Just a hint, we don’t like that.” Typical cop attitude. How about don’t touch the private person. You think that you have more rights that the general public. Your bad attitude of “we can’t be touched” is sick and abusive of power. You spoke volumes when you said “Don’t really care who your are”… we all know you don’t care who we are, you are cops. so that makes you entitled to harass the public. My personal belief is that MOST cops were bullies in school, now a badge makes it official.
pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:54amKook – I assume you are basing your statement on the following article:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
Now, if I understand the article correctly the teachers have negotiated (collectively bargained) what amounts to be a “second” salary that is placed into the pension.
Who would not love to have a second salary from your primary employer. All of which is put away for you for retirement. I disagree with your assessment and the articles assessment that the teachers pay 100 percent of the pension. That “second salary” is paid by the taxpayers.
I think the University of Wisconsin’s web site for their teachers is much more honest about how this really works as evidenced at the web site below:
http://www.wisconsin.edu/hr/benefits/retsav/wrs.htm
The site states:
As a covered employee, you have an individual account to which “employee-required” retirement contributions — 5% of salary for most employees — and investment earnings are credited. Despite the name “employee-required,” this is paid for in almost all cases by the University.
When you retire, you will receive the higher of two pensions:
a formula benefit based on your years of service and highest three years of earnings; or
a money-purchase benefit based on the accumulation in your employee-required retirement account plus a 100% match from the WRS employer reserve.
WRS retirement benefits are usually not payable in a lump sum. You select a monthly annuity payable for your life only, or for your life and that of a joint survivor, or for your life with a guaranteed number of payments.
You can estimate your WRS retirement benefits using the ETF Retirement Calculator
Vesting requirements: none
2010 Contribution rates (adjusted annually after actuarial review):
For most employees the University pays the entire contribution. Employee-Required Contribution (Deposited in your WRS account)
Employer-Required Contribution (Deposited in the WRS employer reserve)
Please note that this is the cost to the University to fund the WRS retirement benefits for its employees.
Report Post »*******For most employees, the University pays the ENTIRE contribution.*****
betterthantv
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:01pm@KOOK are ignorant or just stupid? They 100% of what exactly? Please explain. If that were even half true, we would not be seeing all this in WI
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:08pmpajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:54am
Kook – I assume you are basing your statement on the following article:
http://blogs.forbes.com/rickungar/2011/02/25/the-wisconsin-lie-exposed-taxpayers-actually-contribute-nothing-to-public-employee-pensions/
Now, if I understand the article correctly the teachers have negotiated (collectively bargained) what amounts to be a “second” salary that is placed into the pension.
Who would not love to have a second salary from your primary employer. All of which is put away for you for retirement. I disagree with your assessment and the articles assessment that the teachers pay 100 percent of the pension. That “second salary” is paid by the taxpayers.”
Does the same agreement apply to the bulk of the public sector employees, who far out-number the University’s employees? Does that agreement apply to University faculty whose employment contracts are different from the non-faculty employees?
This is not a simple matter.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:09pm“Now the petty dictator Walker is going after the legislative body. This dictator needs to be arrested or impeached, next year’s recall can;t happen soon enough.”
Encinom – It was late in the evening. Why was the legislator going in? I find in humorous that individuals on the left have no issue at all when a legislator is in a state building late at night as long as they are a democrat but breath fire when that legislator is a republican.
http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2008/11/dozens-of-congressmen-sleep-in-their.html
Report Post »cessna152
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:14pmdawg22
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:41am
Hey there Kook…. just so you know 100% of a public employee’s wages and benefits are paid by US!!!! You have a link for that?
___________________________________________________________________________
Yes and that is why there is the concern. How can you “collective bargain” with taxpayer money? Also, these morons don’t realize they pay the DUES to the unions and the unions MADE the promises….fight with them. Unions are at fault here and many of the leaders have stated they are in it for the money…period! You support that? I thought it was about the “children”? BS…heartless evil rich scammers…
Report Post »2009 I got a 40% cut in pay, I pay $12,000 a year out of pocket for HC and could get fired at a moments notice. Mr. KOOK, what makes you think your precious socialist unions are exempt from what us private sector people have to live with daily? We are paying for these damn unions while our jobs are in jeopardy, while I have to cut back and you/they don’t. There are millions of families with lost income, lost jobs and literally begging… and you won’t take a few % cut? Keep it up… because the citizens are fed up with the evil rich unions and scamming the tax payers!
VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:14pmBLACKHAWK.
You asked for a link. Since you don‘t read any other paper but this one I’m happy to oblige.
http://blog.buzzflash.com/node/12372
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:16pm“The Wisconsin legislature has never been 100% in the hands of any single…”
Correct but it has, more years than not, been controlled by democrats. TRUE OR FALSE?
Report Post »herculesmom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:17pmReading the back and forth comments, I have one of my own….I don’t want my tax money being spent on funding anyones pension. With that being said, if you want a pension fund your own. Your union charges dues, let them fund it, stop living off the tax payers dole.
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:23pmThis is from the article that the Forbes blogger Rick Unger wrote about:
“Out of every dollar that funds Wisconsin’ s pension and health insurance plans for state workers, 100 cents comes from the state workers.
How can that be? Because the “contributions” consist of money that employees chose to take as deferred wages – as pensions when they retire – rather than take immediately in cash. The same is true with the health care plan. If this were not so a serious crime would be taking place, the gift of public funds rather than payment for services.
Thus, state workers are not being asked to simply “contribute more” to Wisconsin’ s retirement system (or as the argument goes, “pay their fair share” of retirement costs as do employees in Wisconsin’ s private sector who still have pensions and health insurance).
They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.
The labor agreements show that the pension plan money is part of the total negotiated compensation. The key phrase, in those agreements I read (emphasis added), is: “The Employer shall contribute on behalf of the employee.” This shows that this is just divvying up the total compensation package, so much for cash wages, so much for paid vacations, so much for retirement, etc.
The collective bargaining agreements for prosecutors, cops and scientists are all on-line:
http://oser.state.wi.us/subcategory.asp?linksubcatid=1246&linkcatid=389&linkid=27
Reporters should sit down, get a cup of coffee and read them. And then they could take what they learn, and what the state website says about fringe benefits, to Gov. Walker and challenge his assumptions.
And they should point out the very first words the state has posted at a web page on careers as a state employee (emphasis added):
The fringe benefits offered to State of Wisconsin employees are significant, and are a valuable part of an individual’s compensation package.
Coverage of the controversy in Wisconsin over unions collective bargaining, and in particular pension plan contributions, contains repeated references to the phrase “contribute more.”
The key problem is that journalists are assuming that statements by Gov. Scott Walker have basis in fact. Journalists should never accept the premise of a political statement, but often they do, which explains why so much of our public policy is at odds with well-established principles.
The question journalists should be asking is “who contributes” to the state of Wisconsin’ s pension and health care plans.
The fact is that all of the money going into these plans belongs to the workers because it is part of the compensation of the state workers. The fact is that the state workers negotiate their total compensation, which they then divvy up between cash wages, paid vacations, health insurance and, yes, pensions. Since the Wisconsin government workers collectively bargained for their compensation, all of the compensation they have bargained for is part of their pay and thus only the workers contribute to the pension plan. This is an indisputable fact.
http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument
Report Post »UpInTheWoods
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:25pm@ Captainkook: Followed your link.
And what is the authors retort? “But is this the fault of the state employees? The pension agreements ARE THE RESULTS OF COLLECTIVE BARGAINING (the cap lettering is my addition).” Yes, it is the fault of the Union and the bribes and threats made by unions and accepted by the government officials that the unions often get elected. Don’t you see just a little conflict of interest??
The Tax payer are on the hook for the pay-outs during the longer life. This “longer life” may even include the spouse. What’s the problem? THAT is part of what is killing off the states. Public pensions!!!
If I rent my house and my union negotiates a deal (with the guy they put in that office) so I have to pay for 15 years and if it goes beyond that YOU pay for the rest of the time. And what if they made that deal with thousands of others. And you were going broke? Shut up and keep paying!!!
We don’t vote out teachers, we vote out the people who give them deals made at the expense of tax payers.
The commenters at Forbes got it:
Report Post »“UPDATE: Since this post was published earlier today, many commenter have made the point that, while it is true that it is state employees’ own money that funds the pension plan, when the pension plan comes up short it is up to the taxpayer to make up the difference.
There is some truth in this – but not as much as many seem to think. Because the pension plan is a defined benefit plan – requiring the state to pay the agreed benefit for however long the employee may live in retirement- if the employee lives longer than the actuarial plan anticipated, the taxpayer is on the hook for the pay-outs during the longer life.
But is this the fault of the state employees? The pension agreements are the result of collective bargaining. That means that the state has every opportunity to properly calculate the anticipated lifespan and then add on some margin for error. What’s more, the losses taken by the pension funds over the past few years can hardly be blamed on the employees.”
OneFootRandy
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:25pm@veryseniorcitizen, Most states are already a dictatorship, but not run by elected officials however run by public employee unions.
Any idiot who can not realize that the unions spends millions in every state, succesfully electing their hand picked candidates, then to have those same hand picked candidates have over arching authority to oversee the negotiations of the salaries and benifits deseveres to be ignored.
It is the most basic form of corruption, its nakid and its destructive. The sickening part is that the actual public servants are being used as shields for the inevitable pushback from a citizenry that is no longer able or willing to pay for this corruption. In fact the underlying administrators and desk jockeys out number the teachers in most states education departments. Rules and requirments heaped upon the educational system have been done simply to swell the staffing requirments. My sister in law is 1 of 4 full time employees of the educational system to manage a class of 11 students, 4 of which have real medical issues and in fact attend only 2-3 days a week, the other 7 are simply to misbehaved to be in regular classrooms. My wifes best friend works in the same type of classroom in a neighbring state, and she is one of 9 full time employees assigned to a classroom with 13 students of which 5 have actual medical problems that require added resources, the other 8 are simply discipline cases.
The system is broke, the unions, not their workers broke it. the public sector unions need to die now if we are to avoid collapse as a free society. The tyranny and control of the dictator union bosses time is at hand, and victory over them is our greatest goal.
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:25pm“This is not a simple matter.”
From your posts you sure think the answer is simple. Constantly take more from taxpayers by raising taxes. When you have spent that…tax more….when you have spent that…tax more. Sure…that is simple all right!
Report Post »pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:36pm“They are being asked to accept a cut in their salaries so that the state of Wisconsin can use the money to fill the hole left by tax cuts and reduced audits of corporations in Wisconsin.”
Yes, because they are, in essence, being paid two salaries. The take home one and the one that is used to fund the pension. Two say the teachers are funding 100 percent of their pension when they are being paid a second salary to fund the pension is no more than playing a shell game.
I have one salary that is split between paying for my home, car, feeding my family, etc. and a small portion that goes to retirement. My company would go belly up if they paid each of the employees a second salary. But hey, this is government we are talking about right? The people can afford it. Just tax them more.
Report Post »Conservative Hippy
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:37pmSince state workers are paid using Tax Payer money… No matter how you slice it… their pension is 100% funded by tax payer dollars!
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:38pm@ pajamash
re: Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:25pm
“This is not a simple matter.”
From your posts you sure think the answer is simple. Constantly take more from taxpayers by raising taxes. When you have spent that…tax more….when you have spent that…tax more. Sure…that is simple all right!”
I’ll make this simple:
You hire me to do a job for, say $100, and you and I could agree that you will pay me $100 in cash.
On the other hand, you and I might agree that you’ll pay me, say, $95 in cash and you’ll deposit the other $5 into my retirement account, and I’ll kick in $5 out of my $95 and put that into my retirement account.
You still paid me $100 and I paid $10 to my retirement account – 100% of that $10 came from my $100 in pay.
Report Post ».
VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 12:46pmDEMOCRATGIRL
Yes, Dear, I’m well old enough to be your grandmother. I have NO pension, but unlike most of you youngsters, I did provide for myself – i.e. I bought my own home which will provide for me when I can no longer work. And yes, Dear, I am still the owner/operator of MY OWN business.
I honestly believe that you are confusing the current President with the last one. Can you imagine what would have happened to the elderly if Bush had managed to Privatize Social Security BEFORE the stock market crash in 2007/2008??
As for Democrats being ‘greedy’! Did you know (probably not because it hasn’t appeared on these pages) that EVERY House Republican voted AGAINST closing corporate loopholes that allow for multiple million $$ tax REBATES to corporations which have off-shored most our jobs and have paid ZERO in taxes for the past decade. They also voted against closing the OIL Companies $45Billion tax REBATE while they also paid no taxes in the first place. Does that seem like they believe in Fiscal Responsibility. Do you know how many States’ budgets could be balanced if these Billion $$$ loopholes were closed – and the money distributed to help the States??
I’m an atheist, but – unlike most of today’s proclaimed Christians – I really do believe that I AM MY BROTHERS’/SISTERS’ KEEPER – and you might just read the Beatitudes (Luke 5). And lastly please learn and practice The Golden Rule! These things will make you feel much better about yourself and the rest of mankind!
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:00pm@ BLACKHAWK.
NO, my friend. Since I can’t post EVERY contradictory clip from Fox News on this site I content to take is in condensed form.
For your information my TV viewing is either C-Span or 24 hour news sites – FOX/MSNBC/CNN/and many blogs (conservative and liberal). It is the ONLY way to get a true picture from which I can make up my own mind.
However, you didn’t say that you watched the video and whether you agreed or disagreed with the hypocrisy on FOX! One view regarding contracts for the wealthy and powerful – and a different view of contracts for the working class!
Report Post »Hugh Williams
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:02pmVERYSENIORCITIZEN
Report Post »Did you know the peaceful loving leftist that took over the Wisconsin Capital did $7.5 million of damage to the capital?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please explain how a group of peaceful people can do this much damage????????????????????????????
VERYSENIORCITIZEN
Did you know the peaceful loving leftist that took over the Wisconsin Capital did $7.5 million of damage to the capital?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Please explain how a group of peaceful people can do this much damage????????????????????????????
http://politicalvindication.com/?p=8057
Theleftisda
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:04pm@sleazyhippo
Year 2010 income brackets and tax ratesMarginal Tax Rate[4] Single Married Filing Jointly or Qualified Widow(er) Married Filing Separately Head of Household
10% $0 – $8,375 $0 – $16,750 $0 – $8,375 $0 – $11,950
15% $8,376 – $34,000 $16,751 – $68,000 $8,376 – $34,000 $11,951 – $45,550
25% $34,001 – $82,400 $68,001 – $137,300 $34,001 – $68,650 $45,551 – $117,650
28% $82,401 – $171,850 $137,301 – $209,250 $68,651 – $104,625 $117,651 – $190,550
33% $171,851 – $373,650 $209,251 – $373,650 $104,626 – $186,825 $190,551 – $373,650
35% $373,651+ $373,651+ $186,826+ $373,651+
Actual tax rate=not lib lies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Year_2010_income_brackets_and_tax_rates
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:10pm@HSTDAL
This was on Bill O’Reily (I know he always speaks truth – LOL) Watch for the Palm trees in the top right hand corner of this video of ‘Protesters in Wisconsin’. Sorry pal, but this video was taken in California!! (around .17 of the video)
Report Post »CaptainKook
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:10pm@ schmite123oh
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 11:52am
@Kook I thought this article was about the police officer tackling the representative not about pasting facts about how much state employees receive in benefits and pay, ”
For some reason The Blaze removed my first post in which I wrote about that.
Report Post »The gist of it was “trying to push your way through a bunch of cops is never a good idea.”
pajamash
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:27pmhttp://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/22917.html
“…Did you know (probably not because it hasn’t appeared on these pages) that EVERY House Republican voted AGAINST closing corporate loopholes that allow for multiple million $$ tax REBATES to corporations which have off-shored most our jobs and have paid ZERO in taxes for the past decade.”
- Maybe the reason they voted against this is because they know corporations are already taxed very high.
- As far as “off shoring” captainkook likes to say that both parties have played a part in where Wisconsin is so I have to say that decocrats were in Washington when legislation was passed making it easier to off-shore jobs.
When compared to other OECD countries:
24 U.S. states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than top-ranked Japan.
32 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than third-ranked Germany.
46 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fourth-ranked Canada.
All 50 states have a combined corporate tax rate higher than fifth-ranked France.
They also voted against closing the OIL Companies $45Billion tax REBATE while they also paid no taxes in the first place. Does that seem like they believe in Fiscal Responsibility.
- And don’t mind the additional cost to you at the pump. Gas is currently hovering around $3.50 a gallon. With your push to eliminate the rebate how much more will we be paying? 50 cents? $1.00? More? Brilliant idea there!
Do you know how many States’ budgets could be balanced if these Billion $$$ loopholes were closed – and the money distributed to help the States??
- Many states have a law that requires their budgets to be balanced. All your idea would do is bring in more money for legislators to piss away.
I’m an atheist, but – unlike most of today’s proclaimed Christians – I really do believe that I AM MY BROTHERS’/SISTERS’ KEEPER – and you might just read the Beatitudes (Luke 5). And lastly please learn and practice The Golden Rule! These things will make you feel much better about yourself and the rest of mankind!
- I always love it when an atheist preaches to me. Here is a few commandments for you:
+ “Do not have any other gods before me.” = Seems to me there are too many that view the government as their “god”.
+ “You shall not steal.” = When I see the way government is spending money I can only feel we have been robbed.
+ “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor.” = I don’t think it is a far stretch to listen to the way people are complaining about, “The Rich”, and feel there might be a commandment being broke there.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:36pmVerySeniorCitizen
Now your using Blogs as news. That is as ridiculous as using Comedy Central as a factual basis for anything. Guess the saying is right, There’s no fool like and Old fool.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:45pmONEFOOTRANDY
So, Are you suggesting that when children misbehave or are ill they should be thrown into a trash can?
Have you not been listening to the dialog in this country about trying to KEEP children healthy – and therefore feeling better about themselves and therefore able to learn easier?
I agree that the school system – as it is currently operating is broken. So why is there so much vitriol against this administration trying to do things to help these children, since the parents obviously can’t – or wont. Why isn‘t there a scream for help on this subject rather than just complaints about it’s problems?
Watch C-Span this afternoon at 4.pm and listen to the President talking FROM a school (in Florida I think) which has gone from FAIL – to an example of what can happen when the Federal and State elements work together so that both the school – and therefore the students – benefit and become ambitious to do even better.
Complaining about a situation has NEVER been a solution to any problem!
Report Post »VinnieCCT
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:53pmCpt. Kook,
Collective bargaining becomes corrupt when BOTH parties are on the SAME SIDE. This is the crux of what has been happening for so many years.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:54pmVerySeniorCitizen
If you watch FOX at all (which I doubt) O’Rielly addressed the Palm trees last night. If you watched the show he was commenting on protests around the country while showing the clip. I guess Jon Stewart or Colbert didn’t tell you that part. I would suggest you view the documentary “Waiting for Superman” to understand how screwed up our Public Education system is due to Unions.
Report Post »SimpleTruths
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 1:54pmATOLESS
Guess you weren’t really good in math class, huh? Contributing 100% of your pension (fact) has NOTHING to do with the percentage of your paycheck your contributing.
They could be contributing 1% of their paycheck and still be contributing 100% of their pension – translated, there is no other source of contribution. Glad you’re not doing MY books.
Report Post »Mikeyyy
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:08pmGround & Pound, make him submit ufc style!!
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:14pmYes watch C-Span at 4 today and keep this in mind while Obama tries to trumpet how throwing money at education works.
“As governor, Jeb Bush imposed an education overhaul that included the nation’s first statewide private school voucher program for students in failing schools and testing to grade school performance.
The White House noted the school the pair will appear at has been awarded federal grant money aimed at improving “persistently low-achieving schools.” Among the steps the school took: electing to replace the principal and rehire no more than 50 percent of the staff.”
Just goes to show how well Republican Governors can actually change things for the better.
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 2:28pm@HUGH WILLIAMS
Please note that this article was written by REPUBLICAN – but, I’m sorry – he ISN’T a TeaParty member.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/03/04/wisconsin-capitol-occupation-ends-with-fishy-dama
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:30pmBLACKHAWK
Unfortunately, you are wrong. I DO watch FOX and when Bill made the comment about using ‘stock’ video he was stepping back from the ORIGINAL story he did on the protesters when he DID NOT make any disclaimer.
You probably haven’t noticed it, but Hannity, O’Reilly, Beck, et. al. all use misleading STOCK videos. These gaffes are really easy to spot IF you follow the current news rather than being ‘sheeple’ and watching or listening ONLY to what you are told to listen to or watch.
Yes, this is another clip from another blog post. I can’t deliver CDs or real live videos for you – but YOU obviously don’t watch Fox – or hear just how often they have to apologize! Everything from indicating that ‘disgraced’ Republican. Mark Foley of Florida was a Democrat – to improper videos.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/weigel/archive/2011/03/04/wisconsin-capitol-occupation-ends-with-fishy-dama
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts988
There are lots ore of these sites if you would like me to post them for you – ALL of them using misleading video footage.
I’m having fun. How about you!
Report Post »ozz
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 3:31pmThis could all be easily solved by not allowing public unions to contribute time or money to political campaigns. Let them collectively bargain all they like. Just don’t allow them as a group to determine who they will be bargaining with by contributing to their campaign.
Report Post »Blackhawk1
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:05pmVerySeniorCitizen
So what your admitting then is that FOX will correct any and all unintended misleading video clips or comments? That would be in sharp contrast to the outright LIES that come from the alphabet stations and CNN,MSNBC because when they are caught telling outright lies they will never retract or correct anything. No violence in 3 weeks huh? Just a bunch of union thugs slapping cameras out of womens hands, or people getting blindsided by 300 pound slobs. Yup no violence there. HAHAHA
Report Post »VerySeniorCitizen
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:39pm@BLACKHAWK
I know, it really is hard to believe that your favorite channel is a SERIAL offender. The disclaimers come so fast that it really is hard to keep track of them. And yes, talking heads on other channels DO mess up. The difference is that they take personal responsibility (on air) for the errors and DO NOT blame the ‘producers’ for the error.
I won’t be a schill for any network, but since I do watch them all (see, I’m retired) it is easy to see truth from fiction!
By the way, the ‘shoving match’ to which you refer was in Sacramento, California – NOT Madison, Wisconsin. But I have NOT seen any apology from Fox on this one!!
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/03/fox-buses-in-footage-from-sacramento-to-make-union-proteste
Report Post »wildbill_b
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 5:49pmThis argument that captain crunch is putting forth is patently absurd and can be rendered void by simply asking him where the “state” gets the money they use to pay the salaries and wages of those government employees?
It comes from the people by way of taxes. Thus taxpayers pay for EVERYTHING in this country.
Report Post »calamari12
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 8:30pmFor all these cops knew the representative could have been a radical left-winger intent on causing an unspeakable act. Good for these guys.
Report Post »tambland316
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 9:36pmHey Uncle Crusty! Proofread your comment before submitting; your spelling is a bit off!
Report Post »eagle275
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:39pmKOOK – yeah, the union members pay $1 to their fund, while the state of Wisconsin pays $57 to every $1, and you wonder why the state is broke? You people are out of your minds. What part of “broke” don’t you understand? Everyone in this nation is sacrificing, except the ones who don’t work and pay taxes – they just want a handout.
Report Post »Mil Mom
Posted on March 4, 2011 at 10:44pmRead the right-wing Rasmussen poll. If the election was held today Walker would lose by a margin of 68 to 32. Does that tell you maybe that he has maybe overstepped his authority?
Report Post »***********************
Who did they poll; the protesters?
Hugh Williams
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 12:29amVerySeniorCitizen
Report Post »So, you don’t believe anything from Fox or any Republican. I don’t believe anything from the government controlled media: i.e. ABC, CBS, NBC, MSMBC, and CNN. This is what we are now two divided camps with no middle ground. I don’t know how to compromise with people that want to destroy America and enslave her people with the yoke of Marxist tyranny. I guess you expect to be one of the ruling elite when you and the other leftist take over and destroy Capitalism or maybe you just long to be a slave.
Atomysk
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 3:14am@CaptinKooK
Report Post »For the record that 100% of benefit dollars that comes out of the workers pocket, never went in it. Your BLOGGER is saying that the benefit is differed wages, this would be true if this were pre-tax dollars taken directly out of their hourly or salary wages, however it is not. It’s a pension provided to the employee by the employer as contracted. Guess what!? Budget can’t afford such generous benefits any longer time for EVERYONE to tighten the belts. They are called public “servants” so why are they picking my pocket, and making it harder for me to retire at a decent age so that they can retire on a pension that has nothing to do with how much money they put in, but rather how big their salary was when they retired and how long they worked? If you gave me a WI teachers average salary I could own 2 homes, 3 cars and a boat with it’s own slip in Southern California.
CaptainKook
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 8:45am@ Atomysk
re: @CaptinKooK
For the record that 100% of benefit dollars that comes out of the workers pocket, never went in it. Your BLOGGER ”
– Rick Unger from Forbes – is quoting the Pultizer Prize-winning economist David Cay Johnston’s article here:
http://www.tax.com/taxcom/taxblog.nsf/Permalink/UBEN-8EDJYS?OpenDocument
and he’s talking about deferred compensation deducted FROM THEIR OWN SALARIES and invested in interest-bearing accounts that are
Report Post »“pre-tax dollars taken directly out of their hourly or salary wages, ” – which they ARE.
1TrueOne55
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 12:59pm100% of 1.00 = 1.00 so when you add that it equals 2.00. When they get a pension of $300.00, what percentage of their pensions do they really pay? Do the Math if you can and get back to the blog.
Report Post »1TrueOne55
Posted on March 5, 2011 at 1:03pm@veryseniorcitizen: I guess then if you lived in Wisconsin then you should go and get your property or the brick with your name on it and go home since that is what the Dem’s have effectively done to the Senate in Wisconsin.
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