Religious Discrimination? 8 Amish Men Jailed After Refusal to Post Safety Signs on Buggies
- Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:48pm by
Billy Hallowell
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In a story that perfectly illustrates the potential clash between religious adherence and government policy, nine Amish men who refused to display an orange reflective triangle on their horse-drawn buggies have been ordered to jail for not paying court-imposed fines.
The men belong to the ultraconservative Old Order Swartzentruber Amish sect in western Kentucky. While other Amish sects in the area do comply with the regulation, the especially-strict order objects to the triangles because the bright color violates their modesty code.
The Courier-Journal reports that the men say paying the fines would amount to complying with a law they believe violates their religious strictures. Levi Zook, one of the individuals who was sentenced, explained to the court his views on the matter.
“I don’t think it’s right to put somebody in jail for practicing their religious beliefs,” he said. “But that’s what we’ll do if that’s what it takes to abide by the biblical laws.”
In the end, a friend paid Zook’s fine so that he would be able to take care of his son, who has cerebral palsy. As a result, Zook is exempt from heading to jail, but the other eight men were forced to report on Monday evening.
The ruling came after three years of arguments between the two parties, with Graves County District Judge Deborah Hawkins Crooks sentencing the men to between three and 10 days in jail. Their sentences varied depending on the amount of their fines and court costs, with the range extending from $148 to $600.
The bright orange color of their prison outfits stirred problems as well. According to Mail Online, special, dark-colored jumpsuits were ordered to comply with the men’s religious beliefs. WPSD-TV provides more on their first day in jail:
The Kentucky Court of Appeals in June denied the defendants’ appeal on the misdemeanor convictions. But the men are undeterred, as they plan to continue the fight. They have appealed to the state’s Supreme Court, where they hope to have greater success in fighting the mandate.
The Kentucky branch of the American Civil Liberties Union has come to the group’s defense.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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Comments (233)
Doug
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:50pmBright orange jumpsuits switched for gray? Seems like a government admission that orange on the buggy really isn’t necessary. These signs do work. The sign prevents crashes.
Report Post »Sheepdog911
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:37pmWhen was the last time someone was arrested and jailed for tickets related to a burnt out break light? There’s no difference.
John 1776
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:44pmMaybe glass bead reflectors would work better. They appear gray unless you shine a light at them, then they reflect back. More or less the stuff they use on newer road signs.
Report Post »rlmeals
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 9:29pm@John1776: Good point.
Report Post »KickinBack
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 9:32pmGeez gov. Leave the Amish alone. It’s more of a “American people are too stupid to see a buggy in front of them and will crash into it.”
Report Post »fcbs46
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 10:55pmCom on they have reflectors it is just the damn government sign they reject. A government push to obey our way or no way. Did they get a chance to vote on it?
Report Post »WeeDontNeedNoSteenkinFaggots
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:04pmWAY TOO MANY REASONABLE SOLUTIONS in this thread !
This is all about government tyranny — PUBLIC SERVANTS trying to micro-manage THEIR MASTERS’ lives. KICK ‘EM OUT … and then press charges of TREASON … cause we likes hangin’s.
Report Post »Dosta
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:31pmThose signs do not make anything safer. The officer that took them in should be fired and put in jail. The Amish rights (laws) were violated.
Report Post »angiea
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 4:04amNewsflash — AMIS ppl DON”T drive their buggies at night! It is during the day, and I would much rather these buggies be on the road in the daytime than bicycles that are much SLOWER.
Report Post »Where is the TOLERANCE when we are not dealing with Gay issues? Why are GAYS , Muslims and Illegals a few of the protected class anymore??
Ruler4You
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 5:18amTotalitarian government “WILL” get it’s way, or YOU will pay as it demonstrates its dominion over individual existence. Your right to exist is totally dependent on the governments generosity to ‘LET’ you exist. It‘s ’our’ game. You play by our rules or we don’t let you play. So there!
Report Post »Detroit paperboy
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 6:32amAs local, state, and federal govts go broke,, the financial
Report Post »incentive to harass , ticket , and fine WE THE PEOPLE grows.
“They gotta get thiers by any means necessary”
loriann12
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 7:03amYea, but we bend over backwards to make sure the Muslims religious prefrences are attended to. If it’s against their religion to wear bright colors, do something else. White can be florescent, too.
Report Post »Emrys
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 7:10amSorry, gotta go with highway safety here. The reflector does not reflect on their modesty, as it is a government mandate. And if you want to drive on the highway, you have to obey certain laws, regardless of your religious beliefs. What next? My religion says I don’t have to obey stop signs or traffic lights or drive on a certain side of the road? How about, my religion says even buggies are too modern, so I can walk on the highway?
Spare me. We say that women in burkas must take off the face covering for their driver’s license photo. A muslim man may not bow down in the middle of a courtroom and face Mecca during his times of prayer; he’d have to go outside of the room to do that it court is in session. I see no real difference here.
Could the state possibly find another way to make a reflective device that isn’t so colorful? Maybe, but then the Amish could still complain that it goes against their modesty when another person’s headlights hit it and it gets all shiney.
You drive on public highways or go into public buildings, you obey certain rules and laws. This is a public safety issue, not a religious issue.
Report Post »JediPatriot
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 7:37am@ Emrys, 1) If we have to obey the law above our religious beliefs, then we should also obey the law above our rights to own a firearm. And our rights to have a fair and speedy trial. And our rights to have a free press. Do you understand? If they can pass a law that undermines just one of our freedoms, the next will fall in line. 2) The Amish, and their religious beliefs, have been here a lot longer than the state of PA. So I think their religion has a little headway on the law. And I really don’t think a verifiable religion would say that running red lights is a practice. Unless you’re a cop.
Report Post »Peace
pamhominy
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 8:55am1) I agree that white reflective signs could be used. 2) I live in an Amish community and they DO drive at night! And are very hard to see (these are country roads with no street lights), While some sects have battery-powered flashing lights, others do not, using dark oil lanterns in front of the driver (to help HIM see). Regardless, if the issue is the orange–change it! JEEZE!
Report Post »SamIamTwo
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 8:58am@WeeDontNeedNoSteenkinFaggots
You have it wrong. It is about the elected official and the voter. The elected official carries out the duties embedded in the law which was voted on. It is the public servant that is carrying out the duties identified by law…
You voted for a clown that has an evil agenda such as Obama, you get what you deserve…it is orchestrated from the top. The simple public servant is merely carrying out the desires of the public. If you don’t know this then you have serious issues just like those who claim the police are the gestapo.
Perhaps you meant the elected officials. Some marry the terms and state public servants, I try to keep it separate as I know that those carrying out the duties do so with orders from on high.
Report Post »Edct
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 9:53amAnother example of over regulation BS which is killing this country.
Report Post »another_mormon_4_Ron_Paul
Posted on September 16, 2011 at 9:37amI heard that someplace else in the country, the problem was solved by using a white reflective triangle instead of the orange. Wouldn’t that work here?
Report Post »thegreatcarnac
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:44pmThe government is always jacking with people because it can……for now. If this group of AMISH cannot have orange triangles…then have them put lit lanterns on the back of their buggies somehow. I know they use kerosine lanterns. A compromise can be reached…the government will not tgry. The feds are bullies.
Report Post »HappyStretchedThin
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:53pmAmen bro. If the principle is visibility to prevent accidents, then with a little creativity the statute can be re-worded to allow for alternative visibility options. And on the other hand, these fine respectable Amish folk may consider proposing their own solution that would give them the visibility to stay safe without violating their convictions.
Report Post »I have the deepest respect for the Amish, and although rendering to Caesar what is Caesar’s seems an easy enough Biblical way out for them, if they’d take it, it will only ever be the direction of their devotion that I may disagree with parts of, never the magnitude of their faith. I wish we could all say our faith was that strong.
Jenny Lind
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:58pmGood solution for nightime, don’t think threy need anything during the day-they are kind of obvious. Simple fix, why didn’t the courts think of it?
Report Post »jroar
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:03pmGreat Response!
Report Post »Bro Geo Too
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:43pmIt seems at least once a year we hear of a tragedy involving a 10 mph, 400 pound Amish buggy Vs. a 50 mph, 4,000 pound car. As you can surmise, the buggy and its passengers fare poorly if at all.
In this case the Amish need to adhere to Scripture which asks us to ” . . . render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s.” This means use the darn reflector and leave your pride at the stable!
Report Post »JediPatriot
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 10:09pm@ Bro Geo Too, And when they tell you to “turn your firearms in” are you going to say the same thing? Freedom of religion is just like the right to bear arms. Protected by the Constitution and the Bill of rights. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. How about slowing down when you’re driving in Amish country. They, too, have a right to travel. They, too, have a right to freedom. Like deer-crossing signs, the government can put out warning signs. The government is supposed to be protecting us, not fining us. I guess they missed the memo.
Report Post »Peace
Chuck Stein
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:23pmI don’t see them having much of a defense. It is a law of general application. They are not being singled out on this. It is a safety thing. As you say about leaving the pride in the stable — if this is about “modesty,“ then the ”immodest“ thing in this case is to go around without ”wearing” your orange triangle.
Report Post »dodgeball
Posted on September 16, 2011 at 12:45pmI tend to agree with Bro Geo Too. If we drive our cars at night in the country without OUR lights on, we pose a hazard for other drivers (or pedestrians or animals), plus also run the risk of getting stopped or ticketed, plus not being able to really see clearly ahead of us at highway speeds. I would feel terrible running into the back of an unmarked buggy if they didn’t have some sort of warning device on the back (besides the battery operated tail lights which are not that visible until you get fairly close).
The Amish men involved in this are, apparently, not giving any consideration to not only the passengers in THEIR vehicle (and THEIR safety), but also others who are driving cars behind them. I’m not sure if the Amish pay for any license plates or stickers to be on the road legally either? If not, they should be glad that they are being given the right to use the roads that all of us other drivers have to pay for every year and getting a stupid orange triangle (that they can take off and put on at will, when needed–if they feel THAT self-conscience about it), is about the least thing they could do to assure everyone’s safety. If they want to be technical about it, even the tail lights are bright colors also (red), so why don’t they protest those as well? Or is that next?
I wonder how these men have been running around all these years before this, though, without these orange markers on the back? Is this something that just came to someone’s attention
Report Post »MARCH4HIM
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:36pmNow if we can get BICYCLES to have “slow moving signs” on the back of there BICYCLE ……
Report Post »AND MOVE OVER TO LET THE CARS GO BY…..Then we will be getting somewhere ….
Instead of them riding in the middle of the road …Just kidding cycle people :)
Well …They do annoy me every once in a while….but not as bad as a deer…
welovetheUSA
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:28pmSince all these communist liberals want a God free nation, and no American patriotism …can the government please give them all one way tickets to Russia.
Report Post »sister1_rm
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:24pmWow. Staunch government verses staunch believers. Both claim they are right. Maybe what should happen is the judge let them decide what safety measures they will take to avoid night-time / inclement weather accidents and still share the road; or how about if this particular community builds and maintains their own buggy roads, closed to auto traffic?
At least the Amish are not trying to force their ways on the rest of humanity. I find most are willing to live and let live, as far as their neighbors go.
Report Post »American Soldier (Separated)
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:35pmYou’re last sentence is exactly what I was thinking.
Leave them alone!
Report Post »vennoye
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:22pm“I don’t think it’s right to put somebody in jail for practicing their religious beliefs,” he said. “But that’s what we’ll do if that’s what it takes to abide by the biblical laws.”
Report Post »Don’t remember the Bible talking about bright colors. Sounds more like traditions of men…
But if they are slow moving on the highways they need some reflecting means of protecting themselves and others.
jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:39pmit’s because of modesty. and they, technically, are in the wrong about it…
you aren’t supposed to “flare yourself up”, so to speak, with fancy buttons, jewlery, etc.. same for your home, vehicle, etc…
… modesty is about not showing/telling everyone you have more than them and rubbing it in their faces.
they need to just put the things on their wagons so they don’t get messed with anymore; before they are all jailed.. the amish do not deserve this. they are the only good people left on the planet.
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:55pmmy point is, this has nothing to do with modesty… if everyone has one on their vehicle, like a ROOF… it’s not “flare”
actually, come to think of it, since there are only 9 people who don’t have a triangle on their wagons in their area… then THEY are the ones not being modest… for, you see, their wagons stand out against the others… oooo? :P
Report Post »coaster1robert
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:14pmIt’s a safety issue,if every seen a car and buggy accident you would support the orange reflectors.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:30pmSounds like a good reason to ban jackholes who run over people, carts, and horses from driving and put them in a nice hole.
If it really is a safety issue I’m sure the Amish people who want to be safe will use a triangle or get some red tinted oil lamps.
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:56pmexactly. if they are worried about getting hit, they will take precautions. and if people can’t see something that large on the side of the road using their headlights.. then they need to have their licenses revoked.
Report Post »TreeTrimmerJim
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 12:52amSince you find it OK to be the arbiter of someone else’s safety. Who do you suggest should be the arbiter of your’s or your families safety?
Report Post »Faith1029
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 10:47pmI have mixed feelings on this one. I do respect and admire the Amish people. However, someone here said they do drive on the highway. This could be just as dangerous as someone driving without brake lights. I think they should abide by the law, even if they don’t like it. I don’t like alot of the laws either but obey them because that would be the Christian thing to do.
Report Post »trolltrainer
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:13pmYep, ultimately it is a public road. Abide by the law, stay off the road, or pay the penalty.
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:41pmyet people don’t have to have triangles or reflectors by law on their backs or fronts… why?
Report Post »squeaker
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:13pmIt‘s not like we’re asking them to add seat belts or air-bags….. but how many miles do they get to a bag of oats…? lol
Report Post »ICANHANDLETHETRUTH
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:13pmLOL I bet if it were a muslim group they would get special treatment !!!!!! Granted the law is the law ….. but come on give me a break !!!!!! They should start saying it is amishphobia, and that it is hatred towards the amish ……. but they will not ….. because they are good humble people !!!!!!!!! Maybe we should all bust them out !!!!! LMAO
Report Post »Flyinglow6
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:08pmLeave these people alone. Not worth the bother. However, don’t punish the person driving the car that runs over the buggy and kills the driver and or riders.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:18pmWhile the State may not ppunish the drive as you say, what would happen if the driver or his passengers are injured? It is a safety issue.
Report Post »tradexpertbuysell
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:20pmWe have the right to fail and if I want to even drink myself to death that is between me and God and not Government between me and God. Here’s how it works. Freedom: Man in communication with God. Tyrrany: Government comming between man and God. Same applies to responsibility which only makes sense if man is beholden to God without Government trying to insert itself in between. Not only that one‘s relationship with his Maker is free while one’s relationship with Government always has a price that doesn’t necessarily cover the cost of the enterprise. Ergot Government waste!
Report Post »encinom
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:09pm@tradexpertbuysell
Report Post »Of course this has nothing to do with God. The Amish want to use a public road, paid for with public tax dollars, the government as an agent for the public sets safety rules for all those that seek to use this public good. The amish don;t wan tto follow the rules. The case is simple. Additionally, your desire the get wasted is all well and good, until your actions put the lives of others at risk. Same here, not being abble to see the buggy at night problem that can lead to injury and death of not just the Amish buggy drive, but any passengers in his buggy, the driver of the car and passengers in the car. God has nothing ot do with this rule.
JediPatriot
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 10:20pm@ encinom, If safety was an issue, then why isn’t the government stopping the use of prescription pills? It’s the number 1 killer in America. Why aren’t they banning the police? They kill more people, and cause more accidents than the Amish. Rules are made for one reason. To make you a criminal. Personal responsibility is what matters. The Amish want to take a ride down the road, then let them. You want to drive down the road, do it. If it’s done at night, and your 2 lives collide, simply turn on your headlights, slow down and take personal responsibility. The number one cause of vehicle accidents in the United States is…… That’s right, humans. Let‘s ban those too while we’re at it.
Report Post »Peace
MHP
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 12:51amenci and all
I found a buggy for $275 might be cheaper than running than a car, which you have to repair, or have a mechanic do, at several hundred or thousands of dollars.
Report Post »the triangle on the baack I got no problem with, long as it‘s my choice to put it on and not the government’s. Handicapped people bound to electric wheelchairs and carts have them as well I wear a gun here at times as well, I spect we can do that in amish country as well, as it is a constitutional right, and it’s my choice, not the government’s.
Point is, it’s our freedom. and you take nobody elses freedom away whatever you do, save if you commit violent crimes, stealing, robbery etc.
Even if you drive a car, and you see a buggy or tractor on the road with no triangle sign, you still have to have complete control of the vehicle at all times by every state law. that means if you even accidently hit them, you can go to jail.
This_Individual
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:05pmYou can’t obligate someone to use something in the name of saftey, can you? If I choose not to wear a helmet when riding a bike & get injured, that’s my own fault. But ultimately, it is a public road & the law.
Report Post »JediPatriot
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 10:23pm@ This_Individual, And when they tell you that firearms are no longer allowed on “public roads” are you going to comply? Why is everyone so happy with our freedoms being eroded? People, the tyranny starts at one location then moves to the next. Very soon you will only be able to walk to work. Too far to walk? That’s okay, they’ll have nice little homes for you behind a nice little fence with nice little armed guards…… For your protection, of course.
Report Post »Peace
squeaker
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:04pmHmmm…….. Radical Amish……… good lord what’s next….!
Amish Morons….
Report Post »JediPatriot
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 10:30pm@ squeaker, Really? Nothing productive to say? All you want to do is attack something that you don’t understand? Do you even know anything about the Amish that you haven’t looked up on Wikipedia? Do yourself a favor and enlighten yourself. Read a book on them. Go and visit them. Talk to them.
Report Post »Peace
squeaker
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:32pm@JediPatriot – Ya… REALLY… it’s a joke jedi… jeeezzzzzzzz … I’m familiar with the Amish
My comments were toward the ones against having reflective markings. So ya, I think they few morons to be on the road endangering others without safety reflectors. I think that triangle is a small price to pay to be safer on the road with automobiles, trucks…etc… And it’s not just for their safety, it’s for others safety as well.
Report Post »JediPatriot
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:52pm@ squeaker, In that case, I apologize. I wasn’t aware that it was meant as a joke. I get in a powerfully aggressive mood when it comes to defending the freedoms guaranteed to us by The Constitution. Again, I apologize.
Report Post »Peace
KangarooJack
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:03pmSeriously, STAY OFF THE ROADS…that is YOUR CHOICE if you can not abide by the law of the land. People, don’t be so eager to jump on this bandwagon…think Sharia Law and opening the door too.
Report Post »SgtB
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:27pmEver heard of the human right to travel? These men and women have as much a right to be in any part of the world as anyone else and they don’t deserve to be hassled over an orange relective sign. I’ve been forced to wear reflective clothing and protective gear by the government before but the difference was that I signed a contract and gave my consent to the rules and regulations they set forth. The Amish gave no such consent and they don’t need to. They have a natural (or in their case, God given) right to travel in whatsoever manner they choose. I’m actually suprised that we as a nation let the federal government gain so much control over our modes of transportation. Watch the movie Tucker. Its about a revolutionary car manufacturer who made the first ever car with a rear mounted aluminum v-6 that had safety glass, seatbelts, and a front headlamp that moved left and right with the steering wheel. He was put out of business by bureacracy and too much government oversight.
Report Post »I am willing to bet that if we didn’t have the EPA and DOT we would have cars that got an equivalent of 60-70 mpg‘s and they’d be as safe as you were willing to pay for. But we currently drive frail and overweight gas hogs. Like PT cruisers. 19mpg combined and only 22 hwy, with a gutless 4 banger and hardly any space.
JNKMAL
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:54pmI use to work with Amish at the brick yard I worked at. I felt the same way you do, and they set me straight on the way they do things. The Amish here take up a collection in their community. That regular people have to pay for license, tags, ect.. What they do is send it to the sate to make up for these things they don’t pay for.
Report Post »encinom
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:15pm@SgtB
Report Post »This has nothing to do with Federal Laws. The Amish violated a state or county law. They were using a public road, funded by tax payers. They refused to abided by safety regulations relating to the use of their vechicle. THis has nothing to do with natural rights, but public safety laws. God isn’t always the answer.
KangarooJack
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:37pmGeez!!! According to YOUR standards-toddlers should be allowed to play in the middle of the road and everyone else should just have to accept that as a method of transportation. I actually do not believe you have even SEEN an Amish buggy. They are flat black paint, most Amish inhabitated lands are hilly….gee, we‘re talking Kentucky in this particular story’s case. Ever been to Kentucky??? A “hill” is pretty big=blind spots. An orange reflective sign is COMMON SENSE. I, for one, do NOT want to be the person that hits said buggy, because I could not see said buggy. If you have a headlight or tailight out-you get a ticket. This is NOT about Religious Differences-this is about SAFETY pure and simple. Go ahead-YOU be the one to run over the whole family because ‘pappa’ wouldn’t put an orange triangle on the back of the buggy to travel on a public road…YOU live with that.
Report Post »Mimi24
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:49pmENCNOM, God is always the answer. To every question that we may ever have. Look to him. Bless his holy name.
Report Post »wordweaver
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:03pmThese guys are so twisted that they will go to jail over excluding certain colors from the palette of their lives? Pretty nutty by any measure. Wait until they get to heaven, and see colors they can’t even imagine right now. Then they’ll go, “Hans, what were we thinkin’?”
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:43pmnot twisted, in fact so STRAIGHT, they the do not sway from their beliefs, like YOU.
Report Post »some ARE willing to die for what they believe in, you will see this soon…
jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:06pmit’s not about the colors either. it’s about flare. they aren’t allowed to stand out “differently” amongst their peers. which, since they all have the orange triangles.. it’s now techincally not flare… maybe when the first guy had it… it was. but that first guy probably watched his brother get hit by a car at night, and decided.. .ya know what? i don‘t care if it’s flare.. i‘m not going to get hit by some blind person who can’t even see a huge wagon on the side of the road using their bright headlights…
honestly though, from now on… if anyone hits a wagon, they need their license revoked, for life. it comes down to YOU NOT paying attention. that is all there is too it. trying to justify hitting something so large on the slide of the road to me, proves, that you are willing to murder someone and blame someone else for it… take some responsibility for your actions… wake up and pay attention.
Report Post »wordweaver
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:09pm@ JB:
Report Post »Lighten up, JB. I was just making light of what seemed to me an absurd thing. There are plenty of things I am willing to die for. International orange isn’t one of them. For them to point at this regulation as a violation of their modesty beliefs seems unreasonable to me.
LETJOYANDINNOCENCEPREVAIL
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 9:39pmWow, JB KIBS – you need to calm down. You’re a little overheated about something you know nothing about. Before you smear those who have been in car/buggy accidents, you‘d better make SURE you COULDN’T be one of them.
Report Post »lynda1276
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:01pmsorry- i agree- it’s really a safety issue. i grew up in Ohio where there was Amish and those country roads get very dark at night and those black buggies were very hard to see.
Report Post »Old Truckers
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:00pmBy using the roads that governmental sources and tax payers provide, there are accompanying rules that must be respected by the user’s of those roads. Slow moving buggies are a hazard to normal traffic and the requirement of a safety triangle is a good thing. it protects them from possible harm.
If the Amish do not want a triangle on their buggies, then they need to build their own roads or paths on which they can traverse the county on.
Report Post »Flyinglow6
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:11pmMost reasonable comment so far.
Report Post »Diane TX
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:19pmI agree FLYING LOW!
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:39pmIt is very true and who would know better than an Old Trucker. I have a problem with the Amish folks born here being jailed over a reflective orange triangle while the police release illegals in this country who don‘t have even a driver’s license much less are insured. Illegals are released even when the cause an accident or, worse, actually kills someone. At least the Amish are naturally born citizens.
Report Post »dmforman
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:53pmThe Amish pay taxes as well. Shouldn’t they be able to use the roads that they help pay for?
Report Post »encinom
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 8:17pmdmforman
Report Post »Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:53pm
The Amish pay taxes as well. Shouldn’t they be able to use the roads that they help pay for?
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They should and they shoul dfollow the rules like every other tax payer.
rockyflatsgear
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:51pmThe road is public easement horses, bikes, people on foot, farm equipment, non-commercial cars and Buggie all have equal use. FYI, horses in Colorado and I assume other states actually have PRIORITY over auto and trucks. Meaning on-coming traffic MUST STOP for a horse to cross the road.
Report Post »Remember horses and Amish buggies were going down the roads long before cars were invented. And with oil prices and supply, they will be here long after and you may be walking with an orange triangel screwed to your back. The laws many keep referring to are ONLY for commercial vehicles and don’t apply to public use look into it. The Amish are not stupid and are wonderful principled people. Looks like you need a new DA and Judge? The buggies have reflectors, at night slow down the deer don’t have lamps or orange triangles nailed on. Peace. Drive Slow and Read the laws. Share the road with all.
MHP
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 1:52amencinom
Shouldn’t we get a vote on those rules.
We should get a vote on every congressional law those bastards pass too, and the president has no right to decide one way or the other.
Report Post »WILLIAM E.
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:59pmThey would not have to if they were muslims.
Report Post »Little Johnny
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 11:40pmIs that an idea you came up with yourself, or are you parroting what others tell you to think?
Seriously, what you’re saying is completely ludicrous.
Anyone using public roads needs to obey sensible rules. SMV (slow moving vehicle) signs are one of them.
Report Post »KangarooJack
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:59pmBaloney!!!! Anyone else drive around Amish Country??? All the buggies I’ve seen have the orange triangle and Thank God they do! Flat black buggy-foggy day/night=need for reflective sign or else you have a buggy of dead Amish and their horse/horses too!
Report Post »jb.kibs
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:50pmyeah, becaue people are SO stupid they can’t see where they are going when they have these bright a$$, 1 million lumen, halogen lights… SURE… i bet you hit pedestrians all the time too… since they can legally wear all black and walk on the side of the road at night.
this law was created because some old blind b1tch killed someone in a buggy one night and blamed it on the fact that she “couldn’t see it”. there is nothing anyone is going to say to make me believe otherwise… that is how ALL laws get started… some idiot lies about how and why something happened then petitions congress for a law. laws and regulations have become an excuse for no personal responsibility. what is the definition of an accident? by definition there can be no “fault”, yet… there is in most states… how is that possible? what a sham..
Report Post »LETJOYANDINNOCENCEPREVAIL
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 9:35pmJB Kibs, you’ve obviously never ridden in Amish country. Try it before you declare how easy it is to see these pitch-black buggies in the night – with or without reflectors.
Report Post »neverending
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:57pmJust more from the bastard in chief – can’t take care of the mountain of problems and corruption but they can zoom in on something like this. Reminds me of the days when the parents were put in jail for not sending their kids to a public school. Way to go barry boy – can’t stand anybody or any group with a strong faith in GOD.
Report Post »pavepaws
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:57pmIf their last names were the likes of Abdull or Fazid there would be no issue.
Report Post »biohazard23
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:56pmThe ACLU is actually defending these guys??? What’s next, their disapproval of shariah law? Oh wait…..
Report Post »http://blog.beliefnet.com/news/2011/09/aclu-fights-oklahoma-ban-on-islamic-law-muslim-group-supports-michigan-ban.php
BarryWhistlerSoetoro
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:55pmYou go ismell
Report Post »motherof18
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 6:54pmThe law is the law. Love it or leave it.
Report Post »copatriots
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:04pmOh please……we selectively enforce laws in this country. Why in the world should an Amish horse-driven buggy have an orange triangle when we allow ILLEGALS to flow into our country? You know, the illegals that Obama considers no greater offense than jaywalking? You know, the illegals who are DRIVING cars without having a driver’s license? Why should any of us obey any laws?
I am personally a fan however of the 10 commandments and Jesus’ instructions.
Report Post »Chesterlab
Posted on September 14, 2011 at 7:13pmMotherof18: Really? The law is the law? What if the school district forced your 18 kids to learn and do things that are morally and spiritually repugnant to you or to have unnecessary innoculations that could be dangerous to their health, but technically they are in the boundaries of the law? And if you didn’t comply, they would take your kids away? Is the law still the law then? Incidentally, the Palatine Germans which make up the Amish communities in America came here long before we were a country. You can’t begin to compare them to the moslems. Further, the Amish haven’t changed. We have. As for the “fanny flags” as the farmers call them, on the carriages, while I agree that they should have some kind of reflective item on the carriages, all they have to do is make one in white or some color that will comply with their beliefs but will still reflect. I don’t think putting the Amish men in jail for this offense is correct. Frankly, I am surprised that the ACLU would even offer to represent a sect of Christianity.
Report Post »rockyflatsgear
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 12:16amMother of18, The road like the sidewalk is public easement horses, bikes, people on foot, farm equipment, non-commercial cars and Buggie all have equal use. The Amish was here before Kentucky was a state, and they really want little to do with the screwed-up system you admire. This may come as a shock to you the State has ZERO authority to regulate the non-commercial use of a public easement. The laws you refer to are ONLY for commercial vehicles and don’t apply to public use look into it. If the LAW required you to put on an orange jump suit to walk down the sidewalk for your safety or face arrest would you? Peace
Report Post »Mary Just
Posted on September 15, 2011 at 9:19amYeah just like the Federal Government follows the country”s immigration laws. You need to think just a little bit before posting.
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