Faith

Religious Leaders Respond to Hawking’s ‘No Need for God’

Religious Leaders Respond to Hawking’s ‘No Need for God’ One of most read stories on The Blaze this week looked at the bold assertion in Stephen Hawking’s new book, The Grand Design, that “God wasn’t necessary for the creation of the universe.”

Hawking  looks to relatively recent scientific discoveries to bolster his theory according to BBC News:

Citing the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting a star other than our Sun, he said: “That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions – the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass – far less remarkable, and far less compelling as evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings.”

He adds: “Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.

“Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist.

“It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going.”

BBC News even has video of Hawking using his vocal synthesizer to read from his book. You can see it here.

Religious leaders, as you might expect, are beginning to respond to Hawking. The Archbishop of Cantebury Dr. Rowan Williams, head of the Church of England, doesn’t believe physics alone can settle questions of existence.

“Belief in God is not about plugging a gap in explaining how one thing relates to another within the Universe. It is the belief that there is an intelligent, living agent on whose activity everything ultimately depends for its existence.”

Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks writes:

“Science is about explanation. Religion is about interpretation … The Bible simply isn’t interested in how the Universe came into being.”

The Chief Rabbi picked up dittos from Archbishop of Westminster Vincent Nichols, leader of the Roman Catholic Church in England and Wales:

“I would totally endorse what the Chief Rabbi said so eloquently about the relationship between religion and science.”

To round out your major faith perspectives, CNN highlighted the comments of “Ibrahim Mogra, an imam and committee chairman at the Muslim Council of Britain.”

“If we look at the Universe and all that has been created, it indicates that somebody has been here to bring it into existence. That somebody is the almighty conqueror.”

All this has certainly stirred up discussion on British television.  We probably won’t see many extended discussions on “string theory” and musing on God’s existence on American news programs. Hawking, will however, be on Larry King Live later this week. That there is still a Larry King Live is, in some quarters, an existential question more problematic than Hawking’s treatise.

There are already numerous video responses to Hawking popping up on YouTube. Let’s pick one. Here is former Gonzaga University President Father Robert Spitzer who now heads the Magis Center of Reason and Faith:

Comments (234)

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  • Denise Matthews
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:32pm

    Anyone who states that the Bible isn’t too interested in how the planet was created, hasn’t read it. “In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth “became” (orign manuscripts) without form, and void; and darknewss upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit ofGod moved upon the face of the waters and God said “Let there be lighjt: and there was light. And God saw the light that it was good, and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day and and the darkness He called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day”. How it was all created is all recorded in His Word and evidentally many here are not all that familiar with His Word. As Christians, we are instructed by God to study His Word in order to show ourselves approved. Start today, it will change your lives.

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  • Okpulot Taha
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:32pm

    79USMC83 comments, “Has anyone proven yet through Physics that there is NO GOD ?”

    Has anyone proven there is a god by any means?

    Okpulot Taha
    Choctaw Nation

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    • aesaac
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 4:17pm

      it is not a god, but God. and you are not your body, if you were and you lost an arm and a leg and a hand you somehow would no longer be you. and why do you presume neaderthal was not human? his dna is present in modern man. i am not interested in religiosity. do not mistake religion with God. to transcend the illlusion of civilization you must either live in a monestary or own one. you must understand the difference between what is holy and what is profane. get ye to some property. else you are a slave paying rent. there is nothing holy in science. to tear the wings of a butterfly off is profane. to pollute the ground water with mercury is profane. that which is profane is self evident and that which is not profane is equally self evident.

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  • Joseph
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:28pm

    I’ll Pray for you Mr.Hawking

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    • Cerita
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:09pm

      Hey Joseph,
      I will join you and I know many others are praying also.
      God bless you.

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  • debak
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:24pm

    Mr Hawkings has been blessed by God by giving him a wonderful mind. Man mad theories cannot be proven by any intellegience except by one higher than the man’s. The only one who meets that criteria is God.

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  • 79USMC83
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:24pm

    Definition of PHYSICS
    1
    : a science that deals with matter and energy and their interactions
    2
    a : the physical processes and phenomena of a particular system b : the physical properties and composition of something

    Theory and experiments is the key to physics. Has anyone proven yet through Physics that there is NO GOD ?????? For many that see this man and his disabilities and brilliant man it proves there is a LOVING and POWERFULL God!!!

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  • NHPatriot
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:23pm

    Because of my Faith in God, there is nothing that any scientist can ever say that will lead me to believe in anything other than Creationism. Scientists are mostly aethiests bent on ‘proving’ that there is no God……all I ever see from science is theories and over the ages theories are continually disproved and replaced with new theories that will eventually be disproven. People of Faith believe without proof, the very definition of faith.

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  • thinkinmind
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:23pm

    I think where everyone gets mixed up is in thinking “Big bang” or thinking of God as we picture Him, a person. God is finite, He is all there is from the farthest point to the farthest point all rolled up, using up all of time and space in the form of particles, the very material of life. If you consider the “universe,” prior to creation, it would have appeared as being full of these base particles (call them the “life particle”) as being God. Then you can visualize the domain of God before creation. The “life particle” (for lack of better word) is smaller than the smallest particle known to us such as the “quark” and is the base material of everything that exists in the universe and is the very make up of God.
    Visualize this material (God) in a smaller way such as the egg. The outer shell and beyond is the area where God has not created anything yet but the inside of the egg He has. He has designed and created within Himself all kinds of objects and life forms using His own self (these “life particles”) to make them. This process started with the smallest particle (His own “life particles”) and God has built on them through time designing, creating and making atoms and materials, all that we know of today.
    These creations are within Him, set in motion by Him and sustained by Him. He is around each creation, through each creation and knows everything that is going on in each creation because He is the creation. There is no distance that He is away from each part of the creation because the smallest particle of the creation is God. This is why He is Omnipotent, Omnipresent and Omniscience and can be all things, because all things are Him. And just think that all is for His pleasure because He is the sovereign God. How did this come to be, I don’t know, I just believe He has always existed and this is the only way it makes any sence to me.
    I hope I described my thoughts well enough but I think you can get the big picture of God.

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    • cboy1954
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 9:25am

      Agreed, God is there. Astonomy proves that,look around you. God isn’t a whiskered old man hurling lighting bolts,He is all things. I don’t believe our man made lords or prophets know or new of God any better than any common man.They just stood on the mountain and preached there belief, which many followed due to lack of any other explanition. God lives, but is quite about it.May all live long and prosper.

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  • Okpulot Taha
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:14pm

    ALAMO writes, “You must have faith…People who have none can never understand this concept.”

    Whoa, hang on there, cowboy. I know you have no intent to offend but your comment is offensive. I could read your comment as, “People without faith are stupid.” You seem a nice enough boy, I am taking your comment as well intended although poorly worded.

    I am a red skinned girl. I am a traditional American Indian. I do not believe in your Christian god. Nonetheless, I am not stupid. I well understand belief in God is based upon faith. I understand this faith, I understand this belief of yours comes both from your heart and your mind. I understand your faith in God permeates you to your very soul.

    Contrasting, I also understand I could rip faith to pieces with not much more than a wiggle of my little finger, just as I can rip my own belief system to pieces with equal ease. Faith is not based upon reason nor logic nor truth. Faith is an irrational belief in mysticism.

    Some examples of this irrational thinking are Eve being made from Adam, a virgin birth, a talking burning bush, parting of seas, pestilence and plague, all that stuff we know is untrue. This is no different than my sitting with our wild raccoons while giving them cookies and discussing the nature of life, no different than my having a medicine animal, Coyote, to whom I speak daily.

    Stephen Hawking is amongst my heroes of science. Hawking speaks truth based upon rational logical thinking supported by proven fact and truth. He and others may need to adjust his words and thinking as more truth is discovered but this does not discount his being a truth speaker.

    Faith is fine but we are never to discount known truth using faith. Doing so leads to the faithful being thought to be ignorant and intolerant.

    I have no problem with my own faith taking a backseat to Hawking and his truths. Mine is a display of rational thinking, tolerance and a love of truth over love of faith.

    Okpulot Taha
    Choctaw Nation

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    • aesaac
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 3:03pm

      you must quiet the mind / everyone experiences Godhead at death / the dissolution of the self into the Infinite Self / Godhead is experiential, it is described equallly from tibet, to japan, to the american southwest, man/some men experience the transcendent, it is always described exactly the same. two people cannot have the same delusion. we mistake thinking for being. the begining of wisdom is to be able to recognize when you do not know something. if you cannot recognize what you do not know [vs what you do know] then you will never learn what it is you do not know. be awake, we are put to sleep early in our civilization. its kind of like a car accident, first you were asleep and then you were awake. try to stay awake.

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    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 3:46pm

      AESAAC replies, “you must quiet the mind / everyone experiences Godhead at death….”

      Oh, I don’t know about that. If not for embalming, at death we would become ordinary fertilizer as Mother Nature intends. Upon death, I would like to be tossed in a hole then buried with dirt but this is unlawful. Don’t have clue why, but this is unlawful. Turning me into fertilizer is beneficial for our Earth.

      Religion began as a fear of death. Earliest evidence comes from around the time of Neandertals, more or less. Graves from a hundred thousand years back and more include flowers, food stuffs, tools and other human things. This suggests a belief in afterlife and suggests a fear of death. Back then, there was no god, just hunger, a yearning to stay alive and a fear of the unknown.

      Hundred thousand years later, this religious belief exploded into theocratic tyranny with this alleged immaculate birth. Humans rendered this primitive fear of death into a theocratic system to control the masses while enriching religious leaders. Religion, evidenced by past and present history, is simply theocratic tyranny based upon gathering of wealth by the religiously powerful.

      My American Indian belief system has been around for tens of thousands of years before the birth of Christ. Our belief system is not theocratic tyranny rather is a belief system which enhances our ability to stay alive, to survive. Our system is a teaching of survival skills through oral story telling.

      No crusades, no inquisitions, no wars, no terrorism within our history. Oh sure, there are some problems found within our history, but all agree my peoples are a wise and peaceful peoples who adhere to beneficial coexistence with Mother Nature.

      On my hand, a peoples who revere Mother Nature and life. On your hand, a peoples who effect theocratic tyranny through violence, death and destruction.

      Why is my American Indian belief system wrong and Christianity right?

      AESAAC adds, “two people cannot have the same delusion.”

      How do you explain left liberals?

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • Ronrico
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:29pm

      OKPULOT TAHA – Your commests are offensive as well. When you gave some examples of irrational thinking such as “Eve being made from Adam, a Virgin Birth, a talking Burning Bush, Parting of the Seas, etc“ you stated ”all the stuff we know is untrue”, please refrain from including ME in your statements, I do NOT need you to speak for me. I could care less what Stephen Hawkings thinks or says. I will put my faith and trust in God and the Bible! The very first chapter and first verse in the Bible says all I need to know about how the earth, man and all the creatures were created. It is quite alright that you don’t believe in my “Christian God” but don’t try and push your garbage on me either. You have a nice day……..

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    • Poorfessor
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:32pm

      In other words you have no faith?

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    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:44pm

      RONRICO comments, “Your commests are offensive as well.”

      I am delighted to have offended you. This informs me you are paying attention.

      “When you gave some examples of irrational thinking such as ‘Eve being made from Adam, a Virgin Birth, a talking Burning Bush, Parting of the Seas, etc‘ you stated ’all the stuff we know is untrue’, please refrain from including ME in your statements….”

      Henceforth I shall write, “…all the stuff we know is untrue, except for Ronrico.”

      Do you feel better being excluded from the enlightened?

      Ronrico closes, “…don’t try and push your garbage on me either.”

      With your mind being firmly set, I would not dare try to confuse you with truth.

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • Ronrico
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:16pm

      Your are DISGUSTING!

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    • e-merlin
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:26pm

      I have one nit to pick here.

      ” Faith is an irrational belief in mysticism.”

      Faith is no such thing. “Faith is the evident demonstration of reality, though not beheld,” according to the Bible writer Paul. This means that faith is based on experience. There may be some facets of your faith you can’t explain, but these are an extension of your experience. Without experience, you can not place faith in anything, God or Science.

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    • Ronrico
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:29pm

      OKPULOT TAHA, you wouldn’t know the truth if it hit you upside your head. You sound like you could be an intelligent person, what happened? That is probably what happened, too much education in liberal schools.

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    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 7:19pm

      E-MERLIN comments, “Faith is the evident demonstration of reality….”

      Reality? By definition “faith” is belief in a notion or thing which cannot be proven. I am confused by your mention of “reality”. What reality?

      I am helping my husband sling and nail shingles. I smash a thumb of mine with a hammer. This is reality. God smites me, there is no reality, nothing happens, no pain, nothing tangible, nothing real.

      What do you mean by reality?

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • JClem17
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 7:47pm

      Great post Okpulot! I am an atheist but I agree completely with what you are saying. Keep up the good work!

      To quote the christians, Amen!

      @ E-Merlin, faith is believing in something without evidence or reason. Please educate yourself.

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    • truebearing
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 8:09pm

      You either know nothing of the Choctaw religion, or are purposely misrepresenting it. The following is a description of the Choctaw religion that contradicts your version dramatically:

      “The ancient Choctaw did not possess a ”soul” in the strictest Christian sense of the term. Instead he possessed an inner shadow or spirit, “Shilup” (which now means ghost), and an outer spirit, “Shilombish” (which now means soul). Upon the death of a Choctaw, the Shilup or inner shadow immediately began its long trip to the west toward the “Happy Land.” And the Shilombish or outer shadow remained about the place of its abode in life for a more or less indefinite period of time. The Shilombish generally remained around the home until funeral ceremonies had been completed, and then if all were well with its family it would slowly fade away.

      However, if the body to whom the Shilombish belonged had been troubled in life or was murdered, the outer shadow would remain around the family until the problem was solved. In this event, the Shilombish would let the family know at night that it was still about by issuing pitiful moans or barking like a fox or hooting like an owl near the house. How did you know that a Shilombish was about your house? When a fox barks or an owl calls, another will answer from a distance away. However, when a Shilombish cries, there is no answer from another fox or another owl.

      In the meantime, the Shilup or inner shadow has made the long journey westward toward the “Happy Land.” It has felt neither hunger nor thirst nor the need for sleep pressing on westward for days and days until it reached the gateway to the Happy Land. However, to enter the Happy Land, the Shilup had to cross a deep, dark canyon by means of a freshly-peeled and therefore slick “footlog.” (This footlog was peeled pine according to what Peter P. Pitchlynn told George Catlin or peeled sweetgum according to Isaac Folsom.) As the Shilup attempted to walk across the slick log, it was bombarded with sticks and stones, thrown by the guardians of the gateway to the Happy Land. If the Shilup was brave and ignored the guardians, it reached the other side of the canyon.

      Here was the Happy Land, where existed one continual day and a world where trees are always green and bear fruit and nuts eternally, where the sky has no clouds and where there are fine and continually cooling breezes. Feasting, dancing and rejoicing go on always, there is no pain or trouble and people never grow old but live forever young, enjoying all of the peaceful pleasures throughout eternity.

      However, if you were a bad Shilup or were fearful of the guardians of the gateway to the Happy Land and tried to dodge the stones and sticks tossed at you, you would fall off the log into the canyon below. Here you would land in water “which is dashing over rocks and is stinking with dead fish and animals. There you are carried around and brought back to the same place again and again by whirlpools. The trees are all dead and bare and the waters are full of toads, lizards and snakes. The dead in the water are always hungry, but have nothing to eat; are always sick, but cannot die; are always in the dark smelly waters where the sun never shines. From this place, the dead may look into the beautiful country which makes up the Happy Land, see the sunshine from afar and hear the laughter and singing of the souls who reached there, but can never reach it themselves.”

      You fundamentally lied about Indians fearing death. You made some profoundly simplistic, and even false, generalizations about the reasons for religion and why they were “created”. Your entire screed amounts to nothing more than an opinion backed up with reems of prejudice, and little else.

      As to your ridiculous claim that everything was peachy-keen in North America when the native Americans ruled: I say you put the wrong thing in your peace pipe because Indians routinely massacred enemies, took slaves, tortured captives, etc etc. If Native Americans hadn’t been constantly warring with each other, they could have easily repelled the European expiditions.

      In yet another way you were wrong: Christianity has never been a theocracy in this country, and if you knew anything about Christianity, or religion in general, you would know that you don’t judge a religion by those who claim adherence to a religion, but fail to follow its tenets. You judge the adherents of a religion by how well they follow the sacred teachings of that religion. You have done neither in your self-righteous rant.

      That is a fine delusion you have going.

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    • Oakenquill
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 8:56pm

      There is no reason for your faith to take a backseat to Hawking’s physics. The physical realities of our universe are in no way antithetical to the metaphysical/spiritual. Truth is truth. If God is truth, then our discoveries of new truths (processes) can only go to glorify the creator and the truths of His ways. Hawking has deliberately sought to refute God’s necessity; his argument pivots upon it. If he had only sought to explain the origins of our spatial arena in physical terms, there would not be much to argue about other than whether he is correct or not, but he is deliberately trying to subvert the supernatural — for no other purposes that I can surmise than to be controversial for the sake of controversy. Which is a cry for attention.

      Report Post » Oakenquill  
    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 10:48pm

      TRUEBEARING comments, “You either know nothing of the Choctaw religion….”

      chim shunshi kalush apa! chim hatak ohoyo holba!

      chahta okla chi hullo li na billia chich haklo lih chatuk!

      Ha! Ha! You are a right funny white boy! You sit there lecturing me, a Choctaw, on my culture!

      Religion? You label our belief system a religion! How mighty white Christian of you!

      TRUEBEARING adds,

      “in the strictest Christian sense”…

      “Shilup (which now means ghost)”

      “Shilombish (which now means soul).”

      Hello! Got a live one here. You are providing a Christian interpretation of my peoples! Talk about a misinterpretation! My, my, how you insist upon imposing a Christian viewpoint upon my peoples!

      “which now means” Which now means! Gotta love those Christians who arbitrarily change our language to fit a Christian worldview. Tell me, TRUEBEARING, what do our words mean to traditional Choctaws, such as me? “which now means” — what did our words mean before Christians mangled our language?

      chim shukhushi shilukwa! With your being an expert on my culture and my unwritten language, have I referred to you as a toad or a wart?

      TRUEBEARING, you have not the slightest clue what you are talking about. Comical, though!

      How funny, a white boy lecturing this red skinned girl about my culture. * rolls her eyes like Sarah *

      TRUEBEARING continues his Christian rant, “You fundamentally lied about Indians fearing death.”

      I did not write this nor hint at this. You are simply lying to readers.

      You well serve as an icon of a stereotypical Christian; a bigot. However, a hilarious bigot!

      You need to attend my Choctaw language classes, this might smarten you up a bit.

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 11:23pm

      OAKENQUILL comments, “If God is truth”

      Is God truth? What evidence would you provide me which proves God is truth?

      When our wild raccoons come to visit with us up here on our hill, come to visit right here inside our home, I give cookies to our raccoons in exchange for their talking with me, for their telling me of what is happening out there in their world. They sit at my feet, sit at our daughter’s feet, eat cookies and tell us the most fascinating stories. Couple nights back, a sad story from our raccoons, Coyote took one of their sisters. I know this to be true, Coyote is my medicine animal. Coyote is the Creator, the Destroyer and above all, Coyote is the trickster.

      However, raccoons are clever pranksters, wear masks and are known to lie. I would lie for a cookie.

      Like our girl, I hear our raccoons’ voices in my mind, I hear their delightful stories of old and new. Sometimes those raccoons talk to us in their real voices, we talk back in their language, but this often causes confusion; raccoon voices are hard to mimic, high pitched and low pitched with little between.

      Are my girl and I truly hearing their voices or hearing what we believe we should hear?

      Does God talk to you, QAKENQUILL? What does His voice sound like, male or female?

      Is God truth or is this you, personally, believe God is truth?

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • Chrang630
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 12:29pm

      OKPULOT TAHA: Your arrogance, among others on here, is astounding. You whine about a “white boy” trying to teach you about your religion, yet you impose your interpretations about Christianity on them. You complain about being offended then delight in offending others with your words. I’m afraid your credibility has been damaged beyond repair with such arrogance and hypocrisy. What valid arguments you may have had have been rendered obsolete. While I appreciate the intent to get people to think for themselves, your attempts to woo folks with racist insults had fallen well short. Fighting what you call bigotry with bigotry is the worst kind of defense. It’s sad really. Likely, noone on here has any problem with a “red skinned girl”, yet you continually show your contempt for any one not. Whatever horrible things anyone’s culture has done to the Choctaw people, has not been done by anyone here, so treat people with the respect they deserve. You rip the action of faith and call it irrational, yet you require us to rationally have faith that your language has been wrongly interpreted, a language which yourself procalims to be unwritten and therefore virtually impossible to prove or disprove.
      You have done well to account for yourself in the acedemic arena, but you have much much more to learn about people and yourself. None of us have “arrived” at perfection, which you unabashedly parade yourself to have done on this forum. It is likely that we all fall disgustingly short of what is true, but the pursuit will never fail us, if we do it with humility. Good luck to you

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    • Okpulot Taha
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 6:10pm

      CHRANG630 comments, “Your arrogance, among others on here, is astounding.”

      Shoot, boy, there is much more about me which is astounding than simply my arrogance.

      Reads to me you do not know this difference between being arrogant and being assertive. You like your girls to know their place, yes?

      CHRANG630 continues, “You whine about a ‘white boy’ trying to teach you about your religion….”

      Oh no! I do not whine, I let blood. Hmm… is he a girl, a white girl? He seems a white boy to me. I don’t know, he could be a white girl suffering terminal testosterone poisoning.

      I have issues with a person who is blatantly ignorant about my culture lecturing me about my culture. Now that is arrogance!

      CHRANG630 adds, “You complain about being offended then delight in offending others with your words.”

      You offend me, I offend you. This seems quite fair. Your words lead me to suspect you are a sissy boy.

      CHRANG630 contradicts himself, “Fighting what you call bigotry with bigotry is the worst kind of defense.”

      Ah ha! There it is! You are so focused on your rant you inadvertently concede the boy up there is a bigot. You also concede he attacked me through your admission of defense on my part.

      CHRANG630 “…so treat people with the respect they deserve.”

      I do! This is what has you angry, my treating people precisely how they treat me. Are you a left liberal?

      CHRANG630 adds, “you require us to rationally have faith that your language has been wrongly interpreted, a language which yourself procalims to be unwritten and therefore virtually impossible to prove or disprove.”

      Is that so! You are writing, in essence, “A white boy Christian English speaker knows as much about the Choctaw culture as a red skinned Choctaw speaking girl.”

      I am one of only about 15-thousand native tongue speakers. I teach Choctaw to my own Choctaw and any who are interested, for free, both in person and on the web. I am delivered into this world by a chahta ohoyo alla eshi apistikeli, am raised by chahta okla and will die chahta. I live and breath chahta.

      Nonetheless, you question my Choctaw credentials. * rolls her eyes like Sarah Palin *

      CHRANG630 blathers, “You have done well to account for yourself in the acedemic arena….”

      “academic”

      Why sure! Upon reading my articles most people think, “Why, that heathen injun girl is right smart!”

      “Vocabulary is the yardstick of knowledge.” – anonymous

      CHRANG630 is jealous, “None of us have ‘arrived’ at perfection, which you unabashedly parade yourself to have done on this forum.”

      My, my, you are turning green with envy!

      Bottom line is this. A white boy Christian comes around and takes to lecturing me about my chahta okla, my Choctaw peoples, gets to telling me what we chahta are and what we are not, pontificates about our “religion” from a Christian point of view, cites some lamebrain Christian interpretation of our “religion” while never realizing we do not have any religion. He prattles on believing himself an expert on my Choctaw culture based upon some inane copy and paste idiocy he found out on the web, an insulting bit of inanity written by a Christian man very well known to me, and he expects me to not be insulted by his Christian rant about my culture.

      Then you jump in, equally ignorant of my culture, then whine and cry about my roughing him up.

      Oh, boo hoo, cry me a river of tears, I have a hankering to go fishing.

      True bottom line is the two of you boys are displaying stereotypical Christian arrogance.

      I am offended and I will treat you with the level of respect you have earned, which is none.

      Okpulot Taha
      Choctaw Nation

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    • Chrang630
      Posted on September 7, 2010 at 7:22pm

      You prove my points admirably well, Okpulot Taha, and each one in turn. By the way, I’m not white.

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  • BurntHills
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:12pm

    wonder what Hawking will say when he meets GOD and GOD asks him if he wants his wheelchair back.

    Report Post » BurntHills  
    • aesaac
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:47pm

      you must quiet the mind / everyone experiences Godhead at death / the dissolution of the self into the Infinite Self / Godhead is experiential, it is described equallly from tibet, to japan, to the american southwest, man/some men experience the transcendent, it is always described the exactly the same. two people cannot have the same delusion. we mistake thinking for being. the begining of wisdom is to be able to recognize when you do not know something. if you cannot recognize what you do not know [vs what you do know] then you will never learn what it is you do not know. be awake, we are put to sleep early in our civilization. its kind of like a car accident, first you were asleep and then you were awake. try to stay awake.

      Report Post »  
  • inferno
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:05pm

    I have one question. Every creation must have it’s space to exist. How was the space that is occupied by the universe created ????? If we buy the big bang theory, There had to be a place for
    the big bang to occupy and occur.

    Report Post »  
    • msmumr
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 8:58pm

      What if your “space” isn’t space in the Universe, but is space/time, an iintegrated parameter that exists as a manafestation of gravity?

      Report Post »  
    • NickyLouse
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 9:01pm

      Quantum mechanics seems to break this notion of an element being confined to a given space-time existence. Some of the smallest known elements of matter can simultaneously exist in two different places at the same time. This is just another amazing evidence of the Creator and His omniscience and omnipotence. The other revelation that comes to us is in the person of Jesus Christ who was before all things and through whom all things were created.

      Report Post » NickyLouse  
  • aesaac
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:04pm

    hawking is a silly little mind, the finite cannot fathom the infinit, you cannot name [yod/hay/vuv/hay] it is merely an anagram: i am that i am, kind of like a zen koan. it can not be grasped, it can be understood. the potter is never the pot. how would the pot/hawking know what the potter needs to blow life into his work, silly little arrogant man. what arrogance to presume to speak, the correct response is AWE, science is illusion its practitioners little more than garage mechanics, charlatans, magicians. i liked einstein, he had a sense of propriety of proportion, he had a sense of humor. he was a mench.

    Report Post »  
  • macnkat
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:03pm

    Ironically it is technology that has brought me closer to God. I can‘t look at images from the Hubble telescope and not see God’s work. I ponder the vastness and can come to no other conclusion than creationism. And I started my adult life firm in the belief of evolution and the “big bang” which I now see as nonsense theory based on grasping at straws.

    Report Post » macnkat  
  • tomnolan
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:02pm

    I remember the famious words regarding the Titanic: “Not even God could sink this ship.”

    Report Post »  
    • Apheros
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 10:57am

      How true! Reminds me of this anonymous quote: “Remember that the ark was built by amateurs, and the Titanic was built by professionals.” :-)

      Report Post »  
  • GailAllen
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:02pm

    Here’s an interesting quote on the subject:

    Scientists may some day measure the energy, or force manifestations, of gravitation, light, and electricity, but these same scientists can never (scientifically) tell you what these universe phenomena *are*. Science deals with physical-energy activities; religion deals with eternal values. True philosophy grows out of the wisdom which does its best to correlate these quantitative and qualitative observations. There always exists the danger that the purely physical scientist may become afflicted with mathematical pride and statistical egotism, not to mention spiritual blindness.

    Report Post »  
    • rocktruth
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:28pm

      The root of spiritual blindness has always been pride. This has been the case since the beginning of man. We need more humbled scientist who reveres God and appreciates His amazing physical universe like Newton.

      Report Post » rocktruth  
  • ConservativeVoice
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:01pm

    Hawkings is angry with God. Some might say they can’t blame him for that, given his condition. Others point to people who also face daunting conditions and are much more brave.

    Report Post »  
    • GnomeChomsky
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 7:25pm

      Not nearly as angry as he is at Santa Claus for not bringing him anything good last year or the tooth fairy for stiffing him again.

      Report Post »  
  • shatter5
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:00pm

    It is feasible that a Perfect God created a Perfect Universe rooted in science that intelligent humans with free will could learn about but possibly never fully understand because we are flawed and therefore incapable of “Complete” understanding. Even a completely scientific explanation of creation leaves room for doubt and as long as even the smallest level of uncertainty exists in science there is, at least the possibility of the God factor. I’ll stick with faith for creation and eternity and leave science to other things in this earthly world.

    Report Post »  
    • plunderpower
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 3:11pm

      We live within a parenthesis. We can only know what is inside the parenthesis. We can only know what is outside the parenthesis when Someone outside the parenthesis tells us about it. Mr. Hawking prefers to ignore what that Someone has said, and is content to guess about it.

      Report Post » plunderpower  
    • Tazzy
      Posted on September 7, 2010 at 12:52am

      Amen

      Report Post » Tazzy  
  • MARCWELBY
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:57pm

    Learning is not to know. There are the learners and the learned. One has to do with memory and the other…wisdom. Dr. Hawkins has learned much.

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  • misterbb
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:52pm

    So one of the top physicists in the world is being refuted by some university pastor. His points are as follows

    1) Dr.Hawking feels a need to explain the beginning of the universe: it can create itself.
    2) There is proof that there is a beginning of the universe of all universes, aka an “absolute beginning.”
    3) If the universe is nothing (it’s unclear where Hawking claims this) then how do all these things exist?

    So he has 3 reasons to challenge hawking…but one is just restating what he said, the 2nd is upholding what he said, and the 3rd is extrapolated from nowhere; Hawking never says that the universe IS nothing. Perhaps at sometime the universe WAS nothing (hence a need to be created)…but if the pastor argues against that, he has to admit that there was at all times a universe in existence, and so there is no need for a creation of the universe…thus God is not needed to create the universe! (no force is needed actually)

    The underlying point is that Hawking isn’t DISPROVING God, he just says that God is not needed for the Universe to be created. Maybe God did do it, that cannot be disproven. Atheists know they can’t disprove god, because they also cannot disprove unicorns, elves, magic, etc. That doesn’t mean it exists though.

    God supposedly does all kinds of other things too, so don’t get butthurt.

     
    • TexasWax
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 4:41pm

      Father Robert Spitzer is calling into question points of Philosophical debate that goes into human understanding, scientific understanding, and the metaphysics of what we can come to understand through though and logic > that pertain to Hawkins Statement
      He specifically did a series of talks to this very area of thought, in terms of the mathematics of infinity and possible metaphysical conclusions – his conclusion/s are to this effect: there needs to be something outside of infinity for infinity to exist. Hawkins conclusion is based on and within the “container” of infinity. Negating anything from outside that maybe required for all contained therein to exist and function.
      ….just an explanation of what “I” see Fr Spitzer doing-saying

      Report Post »  
  • MARCWELBY
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:52pm

    God does not make mistakes. That is how He got to be God.

    Report Post »  
  • Okpulot Taha
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:48pm

    Scott Baker, be very careful about your cited sources, “The Archbishop of Cantebury Dr. Rowan Williams, head of the Church of England, doesn’t believe physics alone can settle questions of existence.”

    Rowan Williams introduced Islamic Sharia law to Britain. Sharia law is now part of the British legal system. Britain suffers inequality under law. Rowan Williams supports misogyny under law.

    This may not seem related to this question of God, but this is. Rowan Williams bringing Sharia law to Britain calls into question his ability to think well. Might seem I am nit-picking but I am suggesting you research your sources more carefully related to credibility.

    Citing Rowan Williams taints your article. You need to avoid credibility issues to lend power to your written words. I enjoy your topics, but I would be remiss to not critique you, now and then. My critique is to be taken in the same good spirit which I offer my words, and my words and critique are aimed at having your words more powerful and more truthful.

    Okpulot Taha
    Choctaw Nation

    Report Post »  
  • hempstead1944
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:45pm

    As smart as Hawking is, he is wrong on this one……He will discover his error someday but will be unable to correct the record and withdraw his remark. I would rather believe in and pray to God all my life only to die and discover there isn’t one than to subscribe to the theory that there is No God and die only to find out there is one……

    Report Post »  
    • slwolfgram
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 4:42pm

      Some people have been educated beyond their intellect.

      Report Post »  
    • JClem17
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 7:26pm

      What if you have prayed to and believed in the wrong god? What if the Hindus or the Wiccans are right?

      Then you are no better off than Mr. Hawking.

      Checkmate!

      Report Post »  
    • Large Eagle
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 8:06pm

      hempstead1944 – on target
      Hawkings is like Al Sharpton – Sharpton thinks you can have civil rights with out white people.
      Sharpton is like Hawkings – Angry for what ever reason. More obvious for Hawkings and I sympathize with him considering his struggles

      This reminds me of a story told by two scientists who prayed to God to manifest so they could show him what they had done. As GOD so politely acknowledge their request they begin to scoop up dirt in the form of a man lying on his back. As they continued on their final touches they told GOD that the had discovered how to make a man. GOD said that is all fine and good but if this experiment is going to make the journal and of your peers scrunity – Please take no chances of failure and get your own DIRT.

      Report Post »  
    • dmcote77
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 4:23pm

      Jesus is the only One who was dead and is now alive. He claimed to be the Way, the Truth and the Life – and the only way to get to Father God. Since He was raised from the dead (seen by many) I guess that makes Him what He said He was.

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    • jimmyjww1222
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 7:54pm

      How does it go? Even the Smartest man is still Stupid than Gods lowest intellect?? I forgot where that is – Solomon said it I believe.

      Report Post »  
    • NickyLouse
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 8:47pm

      To: JCLEM17

      Now, brothers, I [Paul] want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you [Corinthians], which you received and on which you have taken your stand. By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
      For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born…
      But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men.

      However, JCLEM17, wiccans and Hindus have only their superstitious minds to bear witness to the truth while Christians have the preceding evidence. And, as the text says, if it is all a made-up lie that has miraculously deceived millions of people throughout the ages, then it is the most profound truth in all of history that we are to be pitited more than anyone else.

      Report Post » NickyLouse  
  • A Patriot
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:44pm

    Professing to be wise they became fools.

    Report Post »  
  • LifeProject2012
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:40pm

    Stephen Hawking is not necessary for the appreciation of GOD…

    Report Post »  
  • srdem65
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:29pm

    Mr Hawking doesn’t see God in the creation of all things because he has never felt the first movement of a child in the womb, hasn’t seen the desert come to life after an unexpected rainstorm or felt the Grace of God in times of personal tragedy.

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    • NancyJean
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 10:28pm

      Romans 1. The proof is all aroundl us, but some chose to supress it for a lie.

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    • jimjonjr
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 1:44pm

      Umm. Mr Hawking has three children. Robert, who lives in the US, Lucy, and Timothy. I’ll bet at least once he has felt a child kicking.

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  • alamo
    Posted on September 5, 2010 at 1:26pm

    It is called faith for a reason. You must have faith, despite any evidence that points the other direction. People who have none can never understand this concept.

    Report Post »  
    • PeterBreitholtz
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 2:59pm

      A wise English rabbi once proclaimed that atheists are simply parasites feeding on faithful folks’ affairs or something like that.

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    • Turin
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 4:22pm

      “It is called faith for a reason. You must have faith, despite any evidence that points the other direction. People who have none can never understand this concept.”

      Faith is not a blind, irrational leap that one decides to take as truth and hopes for the best. Faith is a reliance or placement of trust in something/someone, and the strength of one’s Faith comes directly from the object of your trust. Thus, while many people may claim to have faith, not all have a faith with power because the object of their faith has no power. Consider people who have faith in faith. While there may be some short term comfort to the thought, it is not a lasting faith based upon truth that can sustain a person.

      Abram/Abraham of the Old Testament believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness. How did Abraham believe? Blindly? Certainly not. God had spoken to Abraham, had given promises and had fulfilled promises. Abraham knew God and the character of God and on that knowledge he placed his faith in God and what God said.

      To dismiss attacks on faith by removing faith from the realm of rational thought and inquiry is not only intellectually lazy, but it is most certainly NOT biblical.

      Report Post » Turin  
    • king-daddy
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:04pm

      So sad. Stephen is missing a lot of other science information that identifies several other solar system oddities that complete some additional requirements for earth-like life forms to exist.

      October 2007, my being a recipient of a miracle healing after 29 years of a disability makes me wonder what special attribute of “gravity” accomplished that “random” act.

      Report Post » king-daddy  
    • jbarronjr
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:53pm

      not quite alamo, the bible never tells its potential believers to just believe. Paul, Peter, and Jesus when all appeal to evidences when persuading people. you have an uninformed view of biblical faith.

      Report Post » John in CT  
    • steve mcgill
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 5:57pm

      hey this Spontaneous creation deal, think it could transform the balance in my checking account? Maybe I can believe it and as an act of faith start writing checks like congress. but I regress. Where did these “laws” come from? God or man???

      Report Post »  
    • Live Free or Die
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 6:25pm

      Yes, if you can prove it – no faith required. Sorta settles the fact that it ain’t gonna be “proven”.

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    • KIwi
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 10:37pm

      In case you get down to my comment on the list, Science does suggest god exists, The bible is all about him creating order out of chaos, examine life all the way down to the building blocks, look at a picture of a DNA strand and you can see his handiwork, If you walked into the middle of a field and found a watch, you wouldn’t assume it had evolved, humans are much more complex then watches, Keep reading and you will find order is his name just as chaos is synonymous with the devil, even Einstein believed in God, Hawking must think he is smarter than Einstein, My question is does Hawking server order or chaos

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    • Ministerofblog
      Posted on September 5, 2010 at 11:41pm

      “He had previously argued belief in a creator was not incompatible with science but in a new book, he concludes the Big Bang was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics.” This is what’s called doubting yourself, this big of a swing in belief didn‘t come from nowhere and sure isn’t based in real evidence as much as its based on the shaky ground of Evolution.

      They have NO firm evidence to base this on just speculative personal rabbit holes that lead them to their “Wonderland Ideas”. They cannot admit God into the evidence for the same reason a thief cannot admit a police officer to their crime scene, they don’t want to be arrested.

      TRUE Science admits all evidence into play and follows it to a conclusion whether or not it supports their predisposed ideas of the Universe, and that is where “He had previously argued belief in a creator was not incompatible with science”, now all of a sudden the opposite is true.

      Check out my website links for more info about the vast cover-ups for evolutionary failures!

      The Evidence they DON’T FACE about Creation! Answer these if you DARE!
      http://ministerofblog.wordpress.com/which-witch-is-which-testimonies-of-deliverance-from-the-darkest-pit/the-evidence-they-dont-face-about-creation-answer-these-if-you-dare/

      The real evidence FOR God AGAINST Evolution and Atheism!
      http://ministerofblog.wordpress.com/which-witch-is-which-testimonies-of-deliverance-from-the-darkest-pit/about/

      Report Post » Ministerofblog  
    • Jovis
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 2:32am

      Methinks it takes more faith than I can muster to believe in today‘s ’science’ which increasingly is prone to unsupported dogmatic leaps to dubious conclusions and obvious perversions of scant data.

      Report Post »  
    • billwill
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 10:37am

      Hebrews 1:2 at the end of these days has spoken to us in the person of the Son, whom he has established heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
      Hebrews 11:3 By faith we apprehend that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that that which is seen should not take its origin from things which appear.

      Report Post »  
    • tommee
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 10:56am

      KIWI – Sorry to burst your bubble… Einstein DID NOT believe in a personal God.

      Report Post »  
    • Chrang630
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 11:49am

      To Live free or die:
      Your simple statement in regards to the universe that it will never be proven that God created the universe because it would take away the need for faith lacks any depth of spiritual understanding. Salvation, according to our Christian bible, does not require faith that God created the universe, only faith that God sent Jesus, His son, to the earth for the sole purpose of purchasing our souls from the enemy in exchange for the life of Jesus himself, and then, faith that God raised him from the dead. In the event that someone were to prove that God created the universe, nothing about salvation would change. Therefore, it is entirely possible that someone could prove it. Besides, it would seem like a very positive thing that someone could prove that God created the universe, because it would then move people toward a faith in the saving power of God; more people would believe in the existence of God, which would mean more people would have to opportunity to place their faith in God’s control over their lives. Also, proof isn’t always followed by belief, and to some, a proven theory still requires a modicum of faith.
      Off-handed remarks that completely over-simplify the wonderful complexity of God do not do justice to Him, and further damage the already poor view of Christian reasoning by the scientific community.

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    • rthudgins
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 1:27pm

      All I have to say is DON”T BUY HIS BOOK.. Who the Hell is he anyway to say who made the universe. He has NO idea. As we say down here in the south, He Aint knowbody!

      Report Post » rthudgins  
    • nowilk11
      Posted on September 6, 2010 at 7:06pm

      Who created gravity??? GOD!!!

      Report Post »  
    • UTAH_LEO
      Posted on September 7, 2010 at 12:19am

      The only thing you can do for people like this is to ask God to frogive them. For one day when they die and the truth is placed before them, the sadness they will feel, will break my heart to the point that all I will be able to do is ask God to forgive them. Be like our Lord and Savior in this matter, he has already shown us the way. FORGIVE THEM FATHER, FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO.

      Report Post »  
    • aafriend
      Posted on September 7, 2010 at 2:17am

      All humans have a heart, a heart is filled with love, minds are filled hate, choose hate or choose love. if you choose love you choose a power greater than your self. what do you have to loose if you live a life of love and honesty, then in the end he will receive you ! i would rather gamble on that there is a god.don’t play pennie anty with gods love, put all your chips on the table.

      Report Post » aafriend  
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